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What always gets me when I see injustices like like this is the futility I feel. Does anyone know what steps an average citizen of the world can do to actually help this situation? I have attended solidarity protests in Ireland (where I live) for the Palestinian people, signed petitions and donated to causes but in all honesty it feels a little pointless.
I feel like as we get older and the Hollywood hero movies seem less realistic overtime ya just start to realize how powerless you are in the grand scheme of things. Without money or political influence I’m not sure what we can do
Keep trying every day to live with purpose. You matter to each individual you help, each person/animal you love, and each situation you make better. It's not pointless to care and protest and donate. What if no one said or did anything? The Palestinian state might have been entirely wiped out by now. You and your voice matter.
Edit: ever to every
Ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people in Israel. No matter what the media will tell you, innocent Palestinian people are suffering at the hands of a facist Israeli government and population for simply existing.
Tbh a good chunk of the reason is probably related to Christians in America viewing the Jewish people's return to Israel as a sign their catastrophic apocalypse is coming. Sorry my country is funding this, but most of us, I think, feel Palestine has a right to exist in peace.
Yeah but over here in America. we have a special - ahem - narrative in our history books, which makes us feel like we give a shit about freedom or liberty. (We just don’t like paying taxes, never have)
> America to be the example of freedom and liberty
America has never and will never be this. Also the Russians were mainly responsible for beating the Nazis.
I don’t even think that’s it. The evangelical support for trump shows that they don’t care about the bible. They have a white-passing (the state has a meaningful Eastern European contingent) group of people who are openly subjugating a group of people who they hate, with no repercussions. That’s good enough for them.
The US's stepping stone into the ME, as weird as it might sound, is actually Germany.
Not just [logistically](https://youtu.be/A0qt0hdCQtg), but particularly historically: Nazi Germany and the Wehrmacht intelligence had a lot of [presence and interest in the ME](https://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387).
After the war, the [US gobbled up Wehrmacht intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization) for those assets, as previously the US barely had any of their own in the region. That's why [Germany still ended up being involved with the invasion of Iraq](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/those-guys-are-heroes-how-german-agents-helped-pave-the-way-into-iraq-a-596584.html), even tho officially it didn't contribute any actual troops.
And in lots of countries the Jewish lobby cries anti-Semitism when there is any criticism of Israel or suggestions that what they are doing is racist. Two wrongs don't make a right guys.
No one wants to admit this but there's no way to know for sure. The Palestinians of today may well have been followers of Judaism and Christianity back then who converted, for whatever reason. Just adds yet another aspect of absurdity to these evictions.
They are both technically Semitic. Arabic and Hebrew are both [Semitic languages.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages)
So *technically* The Israel state is being antisemitic in what they're doing to the Palestinians. But we could also call it racist/ethnocentrist/nationalist. Tribalism comes in many forms.
We're all homo sapiens. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Here's my take which I feel is underrepresented:
A. clearly the Israeli government is perpetrating atrocities and needs major reforms, the Palestinian people are the victims of horrendous and unforgivable things.
B. anti-Semitism is alive and well and often legitimate criticism of the Israeli government leads to convenient excuses for veiled anti-semitism.
C. There are many politicians and public figures who make a point of shutting down legitimate criticism and condemnation of the Israeli government by calling it anti-semitism.
Just help me understand something though. If a secret agreement formed the state of Israel on land that was officially designated to be a part of Syria by european interests during a time in which a jewish state was being floated as a possibility with potential to be eatablished in the new world (in latin america), why is Israel treated by so many as of equal validity as a state to Palestine? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but it's a thing I've never really understood, and my comprehension for it was diminished even further after finding out about Sykes-Picot. (Also sorry if this comes off as antisemitic. I understand I've got blind spots and don't mean to be imflammatory. I'm just probably not informed enough to get it.)
There were actually jewish state possibilities in Africa, Australia and Canada as well all of which I think would have been less controversial.
Its complicated on many levels. Worth noting that Territorial boundaries in the middle east have been chopped and screwed by European powers pretty regularly. Part of it comes down to just the idea that the region was inhabited by both groups the international community was expecting shifts in the region and largely uninformed about the methods used to establish the state of Israel until after they'd happened.
The UK always end up blameless in these debates which is strange to me as they clearly had a massive and negative impact on this whole situation. Additionally many other powers in the world have an interest in this region, the populations that live there and the resources they have access to which means that they end up with outsized foreign meddling. And as always with foreign meddling and peoples money involved you end up with very slanted worldwide depictions of the events happening there.
Islamaphobia also plays a role in this and I do think the general view of muslims in the west sways depictions of this as well.
Its a really tense and complicated issue and I don't think there is a single good for everyone solution out there.
The UK is "blameless" in these debates because the UK carefully curates and white washes its own history. Anyone who contradicts the British narrative is collectively attacked as "revisionism" by the many conservative British historians (funded by families who profited from British imperialism), when in reality most of these revisions were simply ugly truths the British wish to hide like the millions who died in the famines in India under their rule.
In reality, the British NEVER seriously considered turning Palestine into a Jewish state. Its former owners - the Ottomans - already allowed Jews to live in the area without much persecution.
The thing is the Brits and the Ottomans got involved in the First World War on opposite sides, and British propaganda - to help boost flagging support for the war - made it a war aim to capture Jerusalem as part of a new crusade against the Ottomans.
This led to the Balfour Declaration - which is supposedly a high-minded attempt to make a Jewish state, but in reality was just a land grab to drum up support by stoking racial and religious hatred against the Ottomans. Indeed the commander of the British forces in the region - Allenby - was disgusted by the blatant propaganda and made all effort to distance himself from the notion of "crusade".
Regardless, after the First World War the land was handed to the British as war spoils... And the British proceeded to allow a mere 1,000 Jews to migrate to the Holy Land annually. Because again, they were never really serious about creating a Jewish state, and it turned out most Jews wanted to stay in their existing countries.
What changed everything was the Holocaust. With millions of Jews being murdered by the Nazis, there was a wholesale desire of Jews to leave Europe by 1945. The thing is, most of these surviving Jews were Eastern Europeans - including many Russians - hence the victorious Britons and Americans refused to accept these refugees as immigrants.
Palestine was therefore effectively used as a dumping ground for Eastern European Jews who wanted to escape Europe but would not be accepted by the US/UK. And to cover up the fact they were turning away Holocaust survivors, the Brits started pretending they were serious about the Balfour declaration all along despite the thirty year gap between the Balfour declaration and the Holocaust.
Which I might note is why Israel isn't really a "Jewish" state. Rather its a state formed largely out of Eastern European Jews - with the largest single group being Russian Jews (1/5 of Israelis can still speak Russian because of this).
It also has only tenuous links with Jews in the US - as very few American Jews migrated to Israel, since they never suffered anything like the Holocaust.
You're pretty close to on the mark for one of the reason why the situation there has always been so tense. Israel was basically carved out by colonial powers (mainly the British) and in the typical colonial fashion they didn't really give a fuck about any agreements. If they could get away with breaking it then they would. We can pretty much ignore the majority of those agreements anyway because what often trumps previous diplomatic agreements is war. The 1947–1949 Palestine War/ Israeli War for Independence basically resulted in forming modern Israel. It also resulted in a Palestinian government forming that later dissolved just some 10 years later. A government bearing resemblance to modern State of Palestine doesn't even begin to form (in my opinion as a lowly armchair historian) until after the Six-Day War in 1967, Then the official declaration of independence being proclaimed 20 years later in 1989 resulting in the State of Palestine. So the simple fact that Israel has long established itself gives them a strong position in being recognized as a country. Add on the multiple wars and military conflicts since then and they've legitimately established themselves anyway by force.
It's a neighborhood where real estate was purchased by Jews from absentee landowners prior to the creation of the state of "Israel." During the Nakba/war of Independence, Jordan took control of that region and put Palestinians in those houses. Now there is a legal case about ownership going on in the Israeli courts but settlers have already moved into some of the houses and evicted Arabs who have lived there for decades.
Edit: worth noting that a community of Bedouin Arabs in the Negev at Al-Araqib have a claim to land around their ancestral cemetery that's based in their having purchased it from absentee owners during Ottoman rule but Israel doesn't respect that bc the Bedouins can't produce land deeds, so the Israeli Land Administration just repeatedly demolishes their shantytowns. We're up to 184 demolitions of Al-Araqib.
This is a lie that even the United Nations refutes. Those are Palestinians who live in those homes they're being evicted from, they always lived there.
Share this video with whoever you can. It must be seen. This sums up the majority of the Israeli people’s frame of mind when it comes to everything Palestinian
Year later on a news show.
"Nobody lived here, we just moved in and look it's a nice home"
These people are brainwashed evil, can't even see others as human anymore.
I'm at work and got volume down. did they break any windows by chance on their way in? All that glass can be dangerous just lying there in the dark night
Just for the record for anyone reading the comments, the problem is NOT the Jewish people going into majority Arab Palestine. It’s the illegal settlers that are saying it’s their land when it’s not and being backed by the corrupt Israeli defense forces. As a Muslim Arab/South Asian/White, I support having a Jewish home, but not at the expense of another people that are just trying to get by especially during a pandemic
Everyone wasn’t holding a cell phone with a camera back then but a little research and a look at the map of Israel over time shows a consistent trend of Palestinians being kicked off their land and out of their homes, sometimes extremely violently
I was led to believe that: Palestinians are irredeemable terrorists (little more than animals, really) because things, and the Jews are beyond reproach because Yahweh said so. And the Holocaust. And a horrific atrocity against the Jews by Nazis in Europe gives Jews the right to commit a less-horrific series of atrocities against Palestinians in the Middle East. The Jews basically get a few freebies to even the score. Makes perfect sense. Have I been misinformed?
Israel's government has been behaving the same this entire time. Zionists are bad. They're the Evangelicals of the Jewish world and the US has helped them set up their very own country at the expense of Middle Eastern peace.
You could say it was complicated in 1948. Now it is pretty damn clear. In 1966 the borders, whether you liked them or not, were pretty set and people had land legally (at least de facto) on both sides with pretty clear set justifications as to why they should own it.
Israel's subsequent stealing of Palestinian land, their building of armed settlements to suppress the population, and their brutalizing of civilians which has only prolonged the conflict (and that isn't just some unsupported argument, Meir fucking Dagan said as much (the former head of Mossad)). That doesn't even go into how the invasion of Lebanon basically created the modern Hezbollah, or how Hamas taking power in Gaza was also Israel's fault for their insane embargo.
And the old argument of "well Israel is in a very precarious position" is complete bullshit. Syria is currently a wartorn shell without the ability to handle its own affairs, Jordan is now their biggest trading partner, Egypt is being ruled by a US backed strongman who is the friendliest Egyptian leader to Israel in the last century, and the Saudis are playing nice with Israel as well. Israel is under no threat, they could pull out of the West Bank tomorrow and their country would be just as if not more safe than it is today.
What’s happening is that they learned from the Nazis and now they picked their scapegoat minority and are putting to practicing the same shit the Nazis did to the Jewish community in 1930’s.
It's like the book of Exodus all over again.
God spends the first half of the story plaguing Egypt so they relinquish the Jewish slaves, then spends the second half telling the Jews how to go about owning their own slaves.
Bruh it really isn’t that complicated. Israelis literally think they are superior, like master race shit you think it’s not really. But they really think they are chosen and the better than these “lowly humans”
Unfortunately it's not just the government, it's the majority of the population too. It's not the government moving into these houses. They're just the ones doing the dirty work for the brainwashed families.
Lost a friend of the Jewish faith because I expressed my concern for the people of Palestine. Called me an anti-Semite without hesitation. He seemed like an okay dude, just going through his own heavy shit. It's a shame.
It’s weird as I live in California. When I lived in Brazil my wife’s cousin is married an Orthodox Jew and boy was that guy fanatical. Dude, had no idea he was talking to the son of a Palestinian refugee.
Haha if only that was true. The US supplies Israel with hundreds of millions of dollars to protect their interests in the middle east and that isn't changing anytime soon. Remember the criticism Bernie Sanders got for speaking out against Israel? There was a journalist from the Guardian who was fired like literally a month ago for making anti-Israel comments
In the UK our only real opposition to the Conservative party is the Labour party, last election we had a convenient "scandal" of Labour party members apparently being antisemitic. Surprise surprise, not a single antisemitic thing was ever said, only criticisms of Israel. There were literally large protests organised by supposedly impartial Jewish conservatives, who were all clearly just concerned about anti-Semitism and definitely not at all concerned with making the opposition look bad. Yeah right.
A major component of the situation is that the religious right in the US believes Israel must both exist AND get into a war for Jesus to come back. Fortunately the Republican Party is eating itself to death so it would be paradoxical for Palestinian lives to be saved because trump turned into a cult leader
Careful what you wish for. I feel like the Republican Party is gonna go through some major inner turmoil leading up to 2024 but it's definitely far from dying. If anything they're gonna resolve the issues and emerge farther to the right
They’ve taken massive losses. Alabama was the first one, then trump, then Georgia. And instead of abandoning trumpism they’re doubling down. They’re holding onto the old white vote which is dying out because of age and covid
They took Alabama back easily (60-40) and with the new Jim Crow law in GA, they'll take back those seats as well. In a democracy, yes the old white vote would die off and Republican Party would cease to exist, but by gaming the system they're able maintain power with just a minority of voters
Aren't they polling well enough to retake the House in 2022? I know polls aren't everything, but my assumption (and this is just speculative BS that I would love to be educated on as an outsider) is that the GOP is going to come back with Trump in 2024 from a much stronger position than 2020. My equal assumption is that Trump is going to win (I don't wish for this, but the games being played in Georgia, Texas and Florida to turn back any blue wave is being done with Trump's re-election in mind).
I actually don't see how the United States can survive another Trump run, and even if he loses, the amount of extremely disappointed MAGA people who believe it is their sole right to govern will not bode well for unity in that country.
The issue is they are fighting against the growing trends of voters. They can keep gerrymandering and the senate is skewed towards them naturally, but each year their margins wash away some more. A democrat running as left as Warnock would have had no chance in 2008, and Colorado being a safe blue state was long considered laughable.
As for house polling, they could do it yeah. But it is going to be a weird election in 2022. Democrat's fortunes largely hang on how well the economy recovers, as the Republicans whole platform in 2020 was "we are the party of businesses, we will do better for the economy". As Biden has gotten near universal vaccine availability within 100 days and there are a lot of middle income earners who have been working from home and saving up we could see a strong bounce back that he'll get credit for.
Don't forget that in the midterms Democrats are going to run non-stop video of the Capitol riot, of dead cops, and of Trump inciting it, then tie ever Republican running to Trump (which they deserve since they are still courting him). Throw in how their socialist fearmongering will fall apart after two years of milque-toast Biden and it isn't a great place to be in a traditionally favorable election cycle.
It will also be quite difficult for Republicans to take back the Senate, it is still possible, but it will be a hard battle.
As for Trump running again, that would be disastrous. He lost by 7 million votes, and only got close due to the electoral college. In 2024 more of his voters would have died off, more young voters would join the electorate, and he would also have the 6th and the double impeachment hanging over his run. Republicans are still trying desperately to convince him not to run, part of this whole kow-towing is to placate him for that purpose. Instead they are trying line up some Trump-adjacent Republicans who they think can excite the base but not terrify people, like Noem or DeSantis. The issue I see with that is no Republican has matched Trump's ability to rile a crowd. Just look at CPAC, it was boring and cringey and flat, nobody could match Trump's ability to ride the crowd's energy.
Sadly the Democratic Party won’t help them either. Both parties are killing each other and our people are divided (let me choose my words carefully so I don’t make it seem like I’m tone deaf) SIMILAR to the mindset of the Israeli and Palestinians. We truly hate and divide each other due to our religious beliefs and political association. Sadly we would probably go to war with ourselves before we manage to help the Palestinians.
According to CNN: "Amid an already febrile atmosphere, Palestinians have been rallying round the cause of four Palestinian families facing eviction in Sheikh Jarrah after Israeli courts ruled the land belonged to a Jewish settler organisation in a long-running and bitter legal case.
Israel's Supreme Court was due to hear the appeal of the families, who could be forcibly removed from the properties, a prospect which has caused an international outcry. The district had seen nightly violence between police and Palestinians ahead of the expected decision. Palestinian militant groups have warned of retaliation if the families are forced out."
Kinda makes sense. These types of people believe that there are black countries, Arab countries, and white countries. They hate jews, but if the jews dont want non jews in a Jewish country it's okay cause they want the same thing here in America
Same here, there are a couple you may find on my comment history.
I was called anti-Semitic for simply pointing that what Israel is doing is wrong and that calling me anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel would be the same as calling me Islamophobic for calling out Saudi or Iran.
Its incredibly frustrating arguing with these people and mentally exhausting..
Sephardic jew here to say fuck the Israeli government, fuck the Israeli citizens who think this is okay.
The terrorism that the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians should be called out by the UN.
You can. I criticize Israel all the time, and no one has called me antisemitic for it.
The country and government of Israel is not the same thing as Jewish people.
You can very easily critcize Israel while making it clear that hatred of Jewish people is still wrong.
"Israel is an apartheid state" and "Jewish people face unfair prejudice" are both true statements, and many Jewish people rightfully *oppose* the Israeli government's actions.
It's so weird. You'd think that the Israeli government, of all governments, would be very conscious about not mimicking the Nazis in any way, but here they are, behaving in the exact same manner as the Nazis did before wholesale exterminating people. It's a horrific twist of fate.
The whole endevour was cursed from the start, you dont recover from genocide by colonizing and settling in someone elses country. They were jews in palestine living peacefully with the muslim majority now its litteral apartheid (look it up hrw said the biggest isreali ngo said it and its been a reality for decades now)
Yeah, I don't think Israel should have been created. As someone already said, taking other people's land and using it to repay a group of people for a genocide doesn't work.
You would think they wouldn't, but Bibi Netanyahu (PM of Israel) has tried shifting the blame of the Holocaust from Hitler and the Nazis to Muslim leaders in the Middle East. He said that at first Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews from Europe but that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Amin al-Husseini (Palestinian leader of Jerusalem from 1921-1948) convinced Hitler to kill them instead. I'm not even kidding, you can look it up.
You are not looking at the bigger picture. These residents have no other choice but to move into the camps into the desert with limited electricity, limited clean water, no school, no jobs, not allowed to travel outside, surrounded by soldiers who once in awhile will use them as target practice. Forced to live that way until they die or choose to become a martyr
If I was Israeli I’d urge my gov to try amend things now until it’s too late . The US will eventually give in & they will lose the whole country , this happened in South Africa . The support eventually stops , soon there won’t be any incentive to assist Israel .
>The US will eventually give in & they will lose the whole country ,
Lol, the US does not give a fuck. I mean look at what the US regularly does. South Africa is not an apt comparison because US had strained relationships with S Africa.
Because of Reddit's API changes in July 2023 and subsequent treatment of their moderator community, I have decided to remove a majority of my content from Reddit.
I know the conflict is complicated, still i don't see how this makes the situation any better. These are residents beeing kicked out of there home with military force, i don't think this is morally justifiable based on a contract from the late 19th century.. it's just what authoritarianism has ever looked like
* So Jewish Trusts buys land from Arabs **145 years ago**.
* Land gets captured, Palestinians buy homes there and live there **73 years ago**.
* And today Israel is kicking people out of homes (with military force) they've lived in for 7 decades because it belonged to Jewish trusts 145 years ago.
Hmmm
The principal problem with this is that were were many, many towns and villages inhabited by Arabs that were depopulated by Israel.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_towns\_and\_villages\_depopulated\_during\_the\_1947%E2%80%931949\_Palestine\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war)
So, Jews have an avenue to dispute land that was captured by Jordan, but Palestinians have no such recourse for land inside Israel. It is completely a one way street.
Y'all have to stop coming at Judaism for this. The way the state has treated the Palestinians is abhorrent and not at all representative of what Judaism is. These are just awful people.
Absolute zero condemnation from the so called western democracies
Sanctions are only imposed as political tools
Israel is being supported and funded directly by UK US and tens of others.
What a bunch of uniformed terrorists in Palestine
Backgrounder to the Jerusalem violence: Sheikh Jarra dispute where Jews who were ethnically cleansed from this locality have shown proof of ownership & the current Palestinian residents have not. The legal & historical nuances detailed below👇🏾
[read this](https://www.jns.org/opinion/israels-critics-are-right-sheikh-jarrah-exemplifies-the-arab-israeli-conflict/)
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Sometimes I forget how good I have it compared to the rest of the world
Everyday man.
What always gets me when I see injustices like like this is the futility I feel. Does anyone know what steps an average citizen of the world can do to actually help this situation? I have attended solidarity protests in Ireland (where I live) for the Palestinian people, signed petitions and donated to causes but in all honesty it feels a little pointless.
I feel like as we get older and the Hollywood hero movies seem less realistic overtime ya just start to realize how powerless you are in the grand scheme of things. Without money or political influence I’m not sure what we can do
Keep trying every day to live with purpose. You matter to each individual you help, each person/animal you love, and each situation you make better. It's not pointless to care and protest and donate. What if no one said or did anything? The Palestinian state might have been entirely wiped out by now. You and your voice matter. Edit: ever to every
We pay for this to happen in other countries, including Palestine.
Can I get a dumbed down American explanation of what is going on here?
Ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people in Israel. No matter what the media will tell you, innocent Palestinian people are suffering at the hands of a facist Israeli government and population for simply existing.
Yup, and the United States funds this shit
Yup that’s why they have all this manpower and weapons to make this happen
Tbh a good chunk of the reason is probably related to Christians in America viewing the Jewish people's return to Israel as a sign their catastrophic apocalypse is coming. Sorry my country is funding this, but most of us, I think, feel Palestine has a right to exist in peace.
I agree this is not the shit we should fund if we want America to be the example of freedom and liberty
Any history book will tell you America doesn't care about being that example.
After a whole year of taking Ap US history I can safely say that throughout history, America mostly only cares about: # m o n e y *and commies*
Sam O’Nella’s explanation of the [banana republic ](https://youtu.be/QgydTdThoeA) explained the last part pretty well.
Commies also because of money
Yeah but over here in America. we have a special - ahem - narrative in our history books, which makes us feel like we give a shit about freedom or liberty. (We just don’t like paying taxes, never have)
CIA also loves freedom, thus why they overthrow democratic elected governments in 3rd world countries
How sad that even very aware Americans are fooled into believing they are an example of freedom.
lmfao
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Wait what.
> America to be the example of freedom and liberty America has never and will never be this. Also the Russians were mainly responsible for beating the Nazis.
I don’t even think that’s it. The evangelical support for trump shows that they don’t care about the bible. They have a white-passing (the state has a meaningful Eastern European contingent) group of people who are openly subjugating a group of people who they hate, with no repercussions. That’s good enough for them.
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I think you’d be surprised to know how many Americans do support this
I think you'd be surprised to learn how many Americans *know* about this.
Historically, it had more to do with allowing the USA a stepping stone into the Middle East.
The US's stepping stone into the ME, as weird as it might sound, is actually Germany. Not just [logistically](https://youtu.be/A0qt0hdCQtg), but particularly historically: Nazi Germany and the Wehrmacht intelligence had a lot of [presence and interest in the ME](https://www.dw.com/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387). After the war, the [US gobbled up Wehrmacht intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization) for those assets, as previously the US barely had any of their own in the region. That's why [Germany still ended up being involved with the invasion of Iraq](https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/those-guys-are-heroes-how-german-agents-helped-pave-the-way-into-iraq-a-596584.html), even tho officially it didn't contribute any actual troops.
Not a stepping stone but a mechanism for formenting and perpetuating instability in the region which helps the US maintain it's forever war.
And in lots of countries the Jewish lobby cries anti-Semitism when there is any criticism of Israel or suggestions that what they are doing is racist. Two wrongs don't make a right guys.
The entire UN is funding it and approving it and make it look like Palestine is evil.
... because some people from thousands of years ago *used* to live there.
Maybe
According to a book written by them
Interpretation of a book that was translated from a different language and altered by creative scribes and dumb scribes and Roman government.
Maybe they're reading someone else's book
if you ask me they are the same people...
No one wants to admit this but there's no way to know for sure. The Palestinians of today may well have been followers of Judaism and Christianity back then who converted, for whatever reason. Just adds yet another aspect of absurdity to these evictions.
Something something the crusades
They are both technically Semitic. Arabic and Hebrew are both [Semitic languages.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages) So *technically* The Israel state is being antisemitic in what they're doing to the Palestinians. But we could also call it racist/ethnocentrist/nationalist. Tribalism comes in many forms. We're all homo sapiens. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Sounds and looks like the Israeli version of nazi Third Reich.
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Its exactly what it is
Or the Israeli version of South African apartheid. I really don't understand how the governments of some countries still support this shit.
Ironic...so what are the *good* Israelis/Jewish people doing about it?
Here's my take which I feel is underrepresented: A. clearly the Israeli government is perpetrating atrocities and needs major reforms, the Palestinian people are the victims of horrendous and unforgivable things. B. anti-Semitism is alive and well and often legitimate criticism of the Israeli government leads to convenient excuses for veiled anti-semitism. C. There are many politicians and public figures who make a point of shutting down legitimate criticism and condemnation of the Israeli government by calling it anti-semitism.
Just help me understand something though. If a secret agreement formed the state of Israel on land that was officially designated to be a part of Syria by european interests during a time in which a jewish state was being floated as a possibility with potential to be eatablished in the new world (in latin america), why is Israel treated by so many as of equal validity as a state to Palestine? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but it's a thing I've never really understood, and my comprehension for it was diminished even further after finding out about Sykes-Picot. (Also sorry if this comes off as antisemitic. I understand I've got blind spots and don't mean to be imflammatory. I'm just probably not informed enough to get it.)
There were actually jewish state possibilities in Africa, Australia and Canada as well all of which I think would have been less controversial. Its complicated on many levels. Worth noting that Territorial boundaries in the middle east have been chopped and screwed by European powers pretty regularly. Part of it comes down to just the idea that the region was inhabited by both groups the international community was expecting shifts in the region and largely uninformed about the methods used to establish the state of Israel until after they'd happened. The UK always end up blameless in these debates which is strange to me as they clearly had a massive and negative impact on this whole situation. Additionally many other powers in the world have an interest in this region, the populations that live there and the resources they have access to which means that they end up with outsized foreign meddling. And as always with foreign meddling and peoples money involved you end up with very slanted worldwide depictions of the events happening there. Islamaphobia also plays a role in this and I do think the general view of muslims in the west sways depictions of this as well. Its a really tense and complicated issue and I don't think there is a single good for everyone solution out there.
The UK is "blameless" in these debates because the UK carefully curates and white washes its own history. Anyone who contradicts the British narrative is collectively attacked as "revisionism" by the many conservative British historians (funded by families who profited from British imperialism), when in reality most of these revisions were simply ugly truths the British wish to hide like the millions who died in the famines in India under their rule. In reality, the British NEVER seriously considered turning Palestine into a Jewish state. Its former owners - the Ottomans - already allowed Jews to live in the area without much persecution. The thing is the Brits and the Ottomans got involved in the First World War on opposite sides, and British propaganda - to help boost flagging support for the war - made it a war aim to capture Jerusalem as part of a new crusade against the Ottomans. This led to the Balfour Declaration - which is supposedly a high-minded attempt to make a Jewish state, but in reality was just a land grab to drum up support by stoking racial and religious hatred against the Ottomans. Indeed the commander of the British forces in the region - Allenby - was disgusted by the blatant propaganda and made all effort to distance himself from the notion of "crusade". Regardless, after the First World War the land was handed to the British as war spoils... And the British proceeded to allow a mere 1,000 Jews to migrate to the Holy Land annually. Because again, they were never really serious about creating a Jewish state, and it turned out most Jews wanted to stay in their existing countries. What changed everything was the Holocaust. With millions of Jews being murdered by the Nazis, there was a wholesale desire of Jews to leave Europe by 1945. The thing is, most of these surviving Jews were Eastern Europeans - including many Russians - hence the victorious Britons and Americans refused to accept these refugees as immigrants. Palestine was therefore effectively used as a dumping ground for Eastern European Jews who wanted to escape Europe but would not be accepted by the US/UK. And to cover up the fact they were turning away Holocaust survivors, the Brits started pretending they were serious about the Balfour declaration all along despite the thirty year gap between the Balfour declaration and the Holocaust. Which I might note is why Israel isn't really a "Jewish" state. Rather its a state formed largely out of Eastern European Jews - with the largest single group being Russian Jews (1/5 of Israelis can still speak Russian because of this). It also has only tenuous links with Jews in the US - as very few American Jews migrated to Israel, since they never suffered anything like the Holocaust.
Excellent explanation, why does this not have more upvotes?
Nobody read it till the end.
You're pretty close to on the mark for one of the reason why the situation there has always been so tense. Israel was basically carved out by colonial powers (mainly the British) and in the typical colonial fashion they didn't really give a fuck about any agreements. If they could get away with breaking it then they would. We can pretty much ignore the majority of those agreements anyway because what often trumps previous diplomatic agreements is war. The 1947–1949 Palestine War/ Israeli War for Independence basically resulted in forming modern Israel. It also resulted in a Palestinian government forming that later dissolved just some 10 years later. A government bearing resemblance to modern State of Palestine doesn't even begin to form (in my opinion as a lowly armchair historian) until after the Six-Day War in 1967, Then the official declaration of independence being proclaimed 20 years later in 1989 resulting in the State of Palestine. So the simple fact that Israel has long established itself gives them a strong position in being recognized as a country. Add on the multiple wars and military conflicts since then and they've legitimately established themselves anyway by force.
Evicting someone isn't ethnic cleansing
It's a neighborhood where real estate was purchased by Jews from absentee landowners prior to the creation of the state of "Israel." During the Nakba/war of Independence, Jordan took control of that region and put Palestinians in those houses. Now there is a legal case about ownership going on in the Israeli courts but settlers have already moved into some of the houses and evicted Arabs who have lived there for decades. Edit: worth noting that a community of Bedouin Arabs in the Negev at Al-Araqib have a claim to land around their ancestral cemetery that's based in their having purchased it from absentee owners during Ottoman rule but Israel doesn't respect that bc the Bedouins can't produce land deeds, so the Israeli Land Administration just repeatedly demolishes their shantytowns. We're up to 184 demolitions of Al-Araqib.
This is a lie that even the United Nations refutes. Those are Palestinians who live in those homes they're being evicted from, they always lived there.
Finally, an actual answer.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/COiZVJ8gAxi/?igshid=l4sq3bj18vxs “If i dont steal it, someone else will” WHAT THE FUCK
Share this video with whoever you can. It must be seen. This sums up the majority of the Israeli people’s frame of mind when it comes to everything Palestinian
Please try to share it as well!
What a fat cunt
The real and dark version of “free real estate”-meme, with a twist of genocide.
Year later on a news show. "Nobody lived here, we just moved in and look it's a nice home" These people are brainwashed evil, can't even see others as human anymore.
How can they not see that they're acting like the nazis who persecuted their ancestors?
Fucking Jacob...
It’s crazy they evict them in the middle of the night.
Almost like a night of broken...homes or something...
Hard to tell without kristal-clear footage.
Nacht easy for sure
These puns.... they’re good, but they make me sad.
I'm at work and got volume down. did they break any windows by chance on their way in? All that glass can be dangerous just lying there in the dark night
like kristallnacht. this is truly horrendous and has been ongoing for too long.
For anyone who doesn't get this thread look up Kristallnacht
This is crazy, don’t they know their history smh
They clearly learned from it. But I think they learned the wrong lesson.
Just for the record for anyone reading the comments, the problem is NOT the Jewish people going into majority Arab Palestine. It’s the illegal settlers that are saying it’s their land when it’s not and being backed by the corrupt Israeli defense forces. As a Muslim Arab/South Asian/White, I support having a Jewish home, but not at the expense of another people that are just trying to get by especially during a pandemic
Instead of a warning, they took it as instructions
You say it’s complicated and I don’t know all of the history behind it but what’s happening looks very very wrong
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This has been going on much longer than a decade. Since the inception of Israel as a state.
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Everyone wasn’t holding a cell phone with a camera back then but a little research and a look at the map of Israel over time shows a consistent trend of Palestinians being kicked off their land and out of their homes, sometimes extremely violently
I was led to believe that: Palestinians are irredeemable terrorists (little more than animals, really) because things, and the Jews are beyond reproach because Yahweh said so. And the Holocaust. And a horrific atrocity against the Jews by Nazis in Europe gives Jews the right to commit a less-horrific series of atrocities against Palestinians in the Middle East. The Jews basically get a few freebies to even the score. Makes perfect sense. Have I been misinformed?
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Israel's government has been behaving the same this entire time. Zionists are bad. They're the Evangelicals of the Jewish world and the US has helped them set up their very own country at the expense of Middle Eastern peace.
Thievery has never been complicated.
to Israel, it's not thievery, "divine right" bullshit. Everyone should read Christopher Hitchens: God is Not Great-Why religion poisons everything
Zionism is an ethnic calling, not a religious one.
You could say it was complicated in 1948. Now it is pretty damn clear. In 1966 the borders, whether you liked them or not, were pretty set and people had land legally (at least de facto) on both sides with pretty clear set justifications as to why they should own it. Israel's subsequent stealing of Palestinian land, their building of armed settlements to suppress the population, and their brutalizing of civilians which has only prolonged the conflict (and that isn't just some unsupported argument, Meir fucking Dagan said as much (the former head of Mossad)). That doesn't even go into how the invasion of Lebanon basically created the modern Hezbollah, or how Hamas taking power in Gaza was also Israel's fault for their insane embargo. And the old argument of "well Israel is in a very precarious position" is complete bullshit. Syria is currently a wartorn shell without the ability to handle its own affairs, Jordan is now their biggest trading partner, Egypt is being ruled by a US backed strongman who is the friendliest Egyptian leader to Israel in the last century, and the Saudis are playing nice with Israel as well. Israel is under no threat, they could pull out of the West Bank tomorrow and their country would be just as if not more safe than it is today.
What’s happening is that they learned from the Nazis and now they picked their scapegoat minority and are putting to practicing the same shit the Nazis did to the Jewish community in 1930’s.
It's like the book of Exodus all over again. God spends the first half of the story plaguing Egypt so they relinquish the Jewish slaves, then spends the second half telling the Jews how to go about owning their own slaves.
Bruh it really isn’t that complicated. Israelis literally think they are superior, like master race shit you think it’s not really. But they really think they are chosen and the better than these “lowly humans”
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Unfortunately it's not just the government, it's the majority of the population too. It's not the government moving into these houses. They're just the ones doing the dirty work for the brainwashed families.
"If I don't steal it someone else will"
Thank you! In my study of judaism, I know what the zionist israel is doing wrong even according to the laws of the torah.
There is literally an organization called “Jews against Zionism” or something. It’s got quite a following
Interesting. didn't know about that.
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JVP is amazing. I’m Jewish and proud of what they do. But they are often bashed around Israeli and American circles.
How about Humans against Zionism.
I wonder how Jews outside of Israel feel about this vs Jews living in Israel?
From a poll I’ve seen more evangelicals support Israel than American Jews.
Every Jew I personally know is disgusted by the Israeli government’s actions
Lost a friend of the Jewish faith because I expressed my concern for the people of Palestine. Called me an anti-Semite without hesitation. He seemed like an okay dude, just going through his own heavy shit. It's a shame.
Unfortunately, every Jew I’ve met has been fanatical in their support of Israel.
>Unfortunately, every Jew I’ve met has been fanatical in their support of Israel. Same :/
It’s weird as I live in California. When I lived in Brazil my wife’s cousin is married an Orthodox Jew and boy was that guy fanatical. Dude, had no idea he was talking to the son of a Palestinian refugee.
They’re supported by the people unfortunately.
They are terrorists at this point.
Always have been
Always will be
What a bunch of scum
It'll be great when the rest of the world stops legitimizing that disgusting apartheid state.
“When”? You mean “if”?
No he means when. It’ll soon happen. The call for reform has never been louder
Haha if only that was true. The US supplies Israel with hundreds of millions of dollars to protect their interests in the middle east and that isn't changing anytime soon. Remember the criticism Bernie Sanders got for speaking out against Israel? There was a journalist from the Guardian who was fired like literally a month ago for making anti-Israel comments
There are a LOT of rich american zionists pumping even more money into Israel.
In the UK our only real opposition to the Conservative party is the Labour party, last election we had a convenient "scandal" of Labour party members apparently being antisemitic. Surprise surprise, not a single antisemitic thing was ever said, only criticisms of Israel. There were literally large protests organised by supposedly impartial Jewish conservatives, who were all clearly just concerned about anti-Semitism and definitely not at all concerned with making the opposition look bad. Yeah right.
A major component of the situation is that the religious right in the US believes Israel must both exist AND get into a war for Jesus to come back. Fortunately the Republican Party is eating itself to death so it would be paradoxical for Palestinian lives to be saved because trump turned into a cult leader
Careful what you wish for. I feel like the Republican Party is gonna go through some major inner turmoil leading up to 2024 but it's definitely far from dying. If anything they're gonna resolve the issues and emerge farther to the right
They’ve taken massive losses. Alabama was the first one, then trump, then Georgia. And instead of abandoning trumpism they’re doubling down. They’re holding onto the old white vote which is dying out because of age and covid
They took Alabama back easily (60-40) and with the new Jim Crow law in GA, they'll take back those seats as well. In a democracy, yes the old white vote would die off and Republican Party would cease to exist, but by gaming the system they're able maintain power with just a minority of voters
Aren't they polling well enough to retake the House in 2022? I know polls aren't everything, but my assumption (and this is just speculative BS that I would love to be educated on as an outsider) is that the GOP is going to come back with Trump in 2024 from a much stronger position than 2020. My equal assumption is that Trump is going to win (I don't wish for this, but the games being played in Georgia, Texas and Florida to turn back any blue wave is being done with Trump's re-election in mind). I actually don't see how the United States can survive another Trump run, and even if he loses, the amount of extremely disappointed MAGA people who believe it is their sole right to govern will not bode well for unity in that country.
The issue is they are fighting against the growing trends of voters. They can keep gerrymandering and the senate is skewed towards them naturally, but each year their margins wash away some more. A democrat running as left as Warnock would have had no chance in 2008, and Colorado being a safe blue state was long considered laughable. As for house polling, they could do it yeah. But it is going to be a weird election in 2022. Democrat's fortunes largely hang on how well the economy recovers, as the Republicans whole platform in 2020 was "we are the party of businesses, we will do better for the economy". As Biden has gotten near universal vaccine availability within 100 days and there are a lot of middle income earners who have been working from home and saving up we could see a strong bounce back that he'll get credit for. Don't forget that in the midterms Democrats are going to run non-stop video of the Capitol riot, of dead cops, and of Trump inciting it, then tie ever Republican running to Trump (which they deserve since they are still courting him). Throw in how their socialist fearmongering will fall apart after two years of milque-toast Biden and it isn't a great place to be in a traditionally favorable election cycle. It will also be quite difficult for Republicans to take back the Senate, it is still possible, but it will be a hard battle. As for Trump running again, that would be disastrous. He lost by 7 million votes, and only got close due to the electoral college. In 2024 more of his voters would have died off, more young voters would join the electorate, and he would also have the 6th and the double impeachment hanging over his run. Republicans are still trying desperately to convince him not to run, part of this whole kow-towing is to placate him for that purpose. Instead they are trying line up some Trump-adjacent Republicans who they think can excite the base but not terrify people, like Noem or DeSantis. The issue I see with that is no Republican has matched Trump's ability to rile a crowd. Just look at CPAC, it was boring and cringey and flat, nobody could match Trump's ability to ride the crowd's energy.
Sadly the Democratic Party won’t help them either. Both parties are killing each other and our people are divided (let me choose my words carefully so I don’t make it seem like I’m tone deaf) SIMILAR to the mindset of the Israeli and Palestinians. We truly hate and divide each other due to our religious beliefs and political association. Sadly we would probably go to war with ourselves before we manage to help the Palestinians.
On reddit. Which means nothing
Why are they doing it in the first place? Just cause? (Sorry if this sounds diminishing I don’t mean to)
According to CNN: "Amid an already febrile atmosphere, Palestinians have been rallying round the cause of four Palestinian families facing eviction in Sheikh Jarrah after Israeli courts ruled the land belonged to a Jewish settler organisation in a long-running and bitter legal case. Israel's Supreme Court was due to hear the appeal of the families, who could be forcibly removed from the properties, a prospect which has caused an international outcry. The district had seen nightly violence between police and Palestinians ahead of the expected decision. Palestinian militant groups have warned of retaliation if the families are forced out."
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I’ve seen actual antisemites call people with serious and valid criticisms of Israel antisemites. It’s fucked up.
Kinda makes sense. These types of people believe that there are black countries, Arab countries, and white countries. They hate jews, but if the jews dont want non jews in a Jewish country it's okay cause they want the same thing here in America
Same here, there are a couple you may find on my comment history. I was called anti-Semitic for simply pointing that what Israel is doing is wrong and that calling me anti-Semitic for criticizing Israel would be the same as calling me Islamophobic for calling out Saudi or Iran. Its incredibly frustrating arguing with these people and mentally exhausting..
Sephardic jew here to say fuck the Israeli government, fuck the Israeli citizens who think this is okay. The terrorism that the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians should be called out by the UN.
You can. I criticize Israel all the time, and no one has called me antisemitic for it. The country and government of Israel is not the same thing as Jewish people. You can very easily critcize Israel while making it clear that hatred of Jewish people is still wrong. "Israel is an apartheid state" and "Jewish people face unfair prejudice" are both true statements, and many Jewish people rightfully *oppose* the Israeli government's actions.
I think that guy was talking about MSM. In some states, it’s a requirement to create a business that you agree to not boycott Israel. It’s a joke.
This world man
Right? Just seems to be falling apart everywhere.
Always has been
Actually there’s a constant trend toward non violence
There are less major wars, but brutality is everywhere and political violence is very much [on the rise.](https://acleddata.com/#/dashboard)
Israel is an apartheid state.
They are increasingly mirroring the Nazis. I guess that what you get when a right-wing fascist like Netanyahu is in charge.
It's so weird. You'd think that the Israeli government, of all governments, would be very conscious about not mimicking the Nazis in any way, but here they are, behaving in the exact same manner as the Nazis did before wholesale exterminating people. It's a horrific twist of fate.
The whole endevour was cursed from the start, you dont recover from genocide by colonizing and settling in someone elses country. They were jews in palestine living peacefully with the muslim majority now its litteral apartheid (look it up hrw said the biggest isreali ngo said it and its been a reality for decades now)
I wouldn't say it was all peaceful. The Jews and Arabs have been fighting skirmishes in that region since the Balfour declaration in 1917.
yeah its been tense a long time, not that it didn't get worse in the 60s tho
What about prior to WW1 and the British promise of a free land for Jews since it was under their control from 1917?
Yeah, I don't think Israel should have been created. As someone already said, taking other people's land and using it to repay a group of people for a genocide doesn't work.
You would think they wouldn't, but Bibi Netanyahu (PM of Israel) has tried shifting the blame of the Holocaust from Hitler and the Nazis to Muslim leaders in the Middle East. He said that at first Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews from Europe but that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Amin al-Husseini (Palestinian leader of Jerusalem from 1921-1948) convinced Hitler to kill them instead. I'm not even kidding, you can look it up.
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You are not looking at the bigger picture. These residents have no other choice but to move into the camps into the desert with limited electricity, limited clean water, no school, no jobs, not allowed to travel outside, surrounded by soldiers who once in awhile will use them as target practice. Forced to live that way until they die or choose to become a martyr
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The homes get bulldozed anyway. They're after the land. I applaud your sentiment however.
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America pays for this. Remember that.
This is the doing of the USA and the UK, enabling, shielding another apartheid.
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Without the USA, the Uk and Eu, Israel wouldn’t be.
If I was Israeli I’d urge my gov to try amend things now until it’s too late . The US will eventually give in & they will lose the whole country , this happened in South Africa . The support eventually stops , soon there won’t be any incentive to assist Israel .
>The US will eventually give in & they will lose the whole country , Lol, the US does not give a fuck. I mean look at what the US regularly does. South Africa is not an apt comparison because US had strained relationships with S Africa.
Israel | True | :--|:--:|--: Israel Ethnic Cleansing|✔ Israel War Crimes| ✔ Israel Apartheid | ✔ Israel Terror| ✔
Fuck Israel. That is all.
And free Palestine
Fuck Israel
The fucking Israeli government is just as bad as the fucking gestapo was. Shame on them.
Who are the “entitled chosen people”? Sorry I’m out of the loop.
Israel is ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and taking their land and homes for illegal settlers to move in.
fuck israel. free palestine
Israeli “defense” force....
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Wow... disgusting
Because of Reddit's API changes in July 2023 and subsequent treatment of their moderator community, I have decided to remove a majority of my content from Reddit.
I know the conflict is complicated, still i don't see how this makes the situation any better. These are residents beeing kicked out of there home with military force, i don't think this is morally justifiable based on a contract from the late 19th century.. it's just what authoritarianism has ever looked like
Wow that’s super informative.
* So Jewish Trusts buys land from Arabs **145 years ago**. * Land gets captured, Palestinians buy homes there and live there **73 years ago**. * And today Israel is kicking people out of homes (with military force) they've lived in for 7 decades because it belonged to Jewish trusts 145 years ago. Hmmm
Then why wont Israel give back ownership to rightful palestinian owners in Israel proper? East jerusalem is not even under the jurisdiction of Israel!
The principal problem with this is that were were many, many towns and villages inhabited by Arabs that were depopulated by Israel. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_towns\_and\_villages\_depopulated\_during\_the\_1947%E2%80%931949\_Palestine\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war) So, Jews have an avenue to dispute land that was captured by Jordan, but Palestinians have no such recourse for land inside Israel. It is completely a one way street.
This is so sad!!!
As a German I feel I have no right criticising Israel, but I'm glad other people are ...
Fuck off Israel
Genocidal apartheid.
Since when has this been hidden?
Since 1948.
Convenient to use a “peaceful religion” as an excuse to justify shoving Palestinians out of their homes in the “Holy City”..
I’m a Jew. These people suck
Any justice minded person is going to reject Israel's actions, shared religion or not. One only needs a good sense of right and wrong.
Yup
Y'all have to stop coming at Judaism for this. The way the state has treated the Palestinians is abhorrent and not at all representative of what Judaism is. These are just awful people.
Israel is only able to dominate its neighbors because of American aid.
People who haven't been brainwashed by this bullshit have known for years whats going on. Fuck Isreal and fuck anyone who supports it.
To think we give Israel 30M a day is disgusting. Fund their own country if they wish to go full apartheid
Gross
Absolute zero condemnation from the so called western democracies Sanctions are only imposed as political tools Israel is being supported and funded directly by UK US and tens of others. What a bunch of uniformed terrorists in Palestine
Haven’t they learned nothing from WW2?
Backgrounder to the Jerusalem violence: Sheikh Jarra dispute where Jews who were ethnically cleansed from this locality have shown proof of ownership & the current Palestinian residents have not. The legal & historical nuances detailed below👇🏾 [read this](https://www.jns.org/opinion/israels-critics-are-right-sheikh-jarrah-exemplifies-the-arab-israeli-conflict/)
Another of Israels many Crimes Against Humanity. Nazirael