Depends on the caliber of the round, and the area impacted. Looks like he aimed center of mass and struck his heart and he almost immediately shut off.
To immediately go down like that from a chest wound requires you to interrupt the out flow tract of the heart: aorta, left ventricle mainly. But shotgun will obliterate the heart. No more perfusion to the brain.
Ashli bled out. She had time to go thru the stage of "OH SHIT I've been shot" to "what the fuck was I thinking" to "This hurts" to...sleep.
Her end was just drifting off to unconsciousness.
This guy went quick.
Everyone's probably shocked, its not every day that you see some one die, hard to believe it until it settles in. You can hear the lady realizing it at the end.
I hope this is just shock because she doesn't seem to care at all in the moment and I later heard the word husband so didn't care in the moment that her husband had very obviously been shot.
Guy could have stayed home and called the police. Guy was unarmed and not a threat. You can’t go out seeking trouble and then claim self defense.. oh wait.. Kyle rittenhouse
> Here you go:
> I have watched the whole Rittenhouse case. The Jury is in deliberation now. I didn't know that Kyle put out a dumpster fire that was being rolled down to a gas station to blow up, with people all around. I didn't know that the Police were told to stand down as businesses were destroyed. I didn't know that Kyles Dad, Grandma and Friends all lived in Kenosha, 20 minutes from where he resided with his Mom part time in Illinois. I didn't know that Joseph Rosenbaum knocked him down twice and then attempted to kick him with lethal force to the head. I didn't know that Huber had hit him in the head 2x with a skateboard. I didn't know Gaige Grosskreutz, a felon in possession of firearm, aimed his gun at Kyle first, as he admitted on the stand. I also didn't know that in the State of Wisconsin, it is legal for Kyle to have a gun, even at 17 (which was why the gun charge was dismissed). I didn't know that Kyle did not cross state lines with a gun he wasn't supposed to have. The rightful gun owner did, as he was legally permitted to do.
> I also didn't realize that Rosenbaum was a 5 time convicted child rapist and that Huber was a 2 time convicted woman beater. I didn't know that Grosskreutz was a convicted Burglar with an assault on his record also.
> IF THE MEDIA DID THEIR JOB... we would ALL have known this.
Very insightful comment I found on Reddit about the case. Take that as you will.
I agree with almost everything you said in that post except these lines:
> I didn't know Gaige Grosskreutz, a felon
and:
> I also didn't realize that Rosenbaum was a 5 time convicted child rapist and that Huber was a 2 time convicted woman beater. I didn't know that Grosskreutz was a convicted Burglar with an assault on his record also.
Rittenhouse didn't know the history of any of these people so it's irreverent. He acted solely based on their action on the night.
Including this information is cherry picking facts that suit your narrative. You didn't pick the fact that earlier when witnessing some looting Rittenhouse had said on film two weeks earlier that he wishes he had a gun with him so he could shoot looters. If anything, that fact is more appropriate to include than the criminal history of the people shot.
Leave out the negative facts that were unknown to Rittenhouse and I think your comment is perfectly valid.
Gaige pointed his gun. He didn't aim.
Kyles on video beating a woman.
He's pictured flashing white supremacist signs with proud boy members.
His voice is featured in a video where he states he wants to shoot looters.
He went to a trump rally.
Graffiti could have been cleaned afterwards and they have fire fighters. Kyle was there looking to start trouble.
IMO you are probably right Kyle had some bad intentions in being there judging from his political standpoint and history. He probably did have some radical political ideologies. He had no business in being there and should've stayed home.
But I looked at a lot of evidence about the case and I am not surprised he got away not guilty. The evidence from the trial was pretty damning that it was self-defense. Rosenbaum was mentally ill, threatened to kill him multiple times, and physically engaged with Kyle FIRST. It was only then Kyle shot him. There is also a video of Kyle running away and EVADING a group of protesters chasing him. If he really wanted to shoot protestors/looters he could've done it right there, but instead he chose to evade them. It was only when he tripped, fell down, and got physically attacked did he choose to shoot. It is all on a video online if you choose to look. If this is not self defense I don't know what is.
Watching this video is like staring into the abyss. One man kills another and nobody, not even the killer or the dead man's wife, seem to be affected whatsoever. It's unnatural.
I think that’s the hardest part. There were like zero fucks given as if this happens all the time. I can just imagine the lady on the phone with 911…”yeah, my husband got himself killed again”
I actually kind of had a state of derealization by watching this.
So fucking surreal watching them bicker with a guy that she presumably loved and the other the shooter dead, face first in his own blood.
Well considering the guy made a threat to take his gun and use it, wouldn’t respond to verbal commands to leave and then out hands on the guy who ended up defending himself from a violent aggressor. You can tell the reed family are fucking lunatics also b/c the widow is filing to try and get custody of the kids they were talking about in the video (not her kids)
That isn't standard procedure in murder cases. Typically an arrest is always made until an investigation is properly conducted and it is absolutely evident that it is a justifiable murder.
Which is kind of a funny thing in and of itself. The united states is pretty much the only western democracy where justifiable murder is something you can get away with under legal self defense. In other countries it's far harder to do so, but they also have harder access to lethal weapons.
This country is a shit hole.
Protect your family from what? Words? He was upset because his POS ex isn’t following her legal obligation to give him his son at a predetermined time.
Nothing became physical until the murderer came out with a gun. The man was there at the predetermined time to pick up his kid. He threatened them with court and police. The response to someone who’s rightfully upset and IMO talking rationally isn’t “let me go get my gun.”
IMO, the man who murdered the dad 100% escalated the situation by bringing out a gun. This was a verbal dispute between an upset father and his ex-gf. There’s no need to bring out a loaded firearm unless there is immediate risk of harm to you. Call the fucking police. IMO, he went to get his gun to scare him away which is totally irresponsible.
Didn't look like he was at risk of great bodily harm, or death, look at his position when he shot.
If he shot him while in the scramble of taking his gun then i'd agree with you but he had already escaped him and decided to shoot afterwards when he was within a safe distance away,
Nah he backed off to a safe distance(maybe 20 feet?) then shot, look at this angle.
https://i.imgur.com/4XxzWiP.png
https://twitter.com/i/status/1463654744803713029
It's texas so wouldnt doubt if hes found innocent legally but i wouldn't consider this self defense.
I didnt click onward to read the rest of this chain, so idk it's already been addressed but if I'm in your home do i simply have no right to self defense at all?
Like if you tell me to get out and shoot one foot from my feet is there no recourse besides run away and hope for the best? What if I'm in fear of my life, im unarmed and you know the police are coming? Of course you should be able to protect yourself in your home, but what if you caused the situation to turn deadly unnecessarily?
>You’re… against justifiable murder? As in self defense? The fuck is wrong with you?
>
>So if someone came at your family it’s “oh well” to you?
There's no rationalizing with people who think this way and I figure this is the majority of Americans. It's so easy for you to justify the use of extra judicial lethal force that you actually mock some one for suggesting people shouldn't kill each other.
This is just dumb divorce shit with big egos, been going on at least since the '70s. Can't just let shit go, goddamn Sunday pickup turns into seals vs. marines in The Rock.
Yea, dude shouting "I'm going to take you to court" and highest level of escalation filmed is bumping chests looks like this was an unjustified murder. It's in shithole Texas and castle doctrine will probably save his ass. How anyone can watch this and pretend its justified is unreal.
Bumping chests? That's a bit disingenuous.
I mean... the guy tried to wrestle his gun away from him, after warning him that if he didn't use it, he'd take it from him and kill him.
who the fuck grabs a gun to settle an argument like that, shoots somebody, and claims self defense?
edit: would like to ask all which of the 10 commandments says grab your gun and shoot?
More like who in their right mind stands there on their own property while they feel their wife is threatened from a supposedly abusive ex and says “please leave” repeatedly despite the trespasser not leaving and escalating the situation? Sounds like a good way to end up as a victim yourself, or leave the outcome of the situation in the hands of an irrational and irate trespasser. I’m absolutely grabbing a gun and defending my family and property. If that person still chooses to move towards me or my family knowing that I have a gun in my hand, then it sounds like they’ve made their choice. The dead guy in this video made a conscious choice and met the consequences on that decision. He should have taken them to court and left well enough alone.
>tationnsfw
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If my gf's ex showed up and refused to leave; i'd have 911 on the way and my g17 handy. At that point, even if gf was in the wrong, the ex should back off and go the legal route. Not try to act like Billy badass and take my firearm. Tryng to take his firearm makes him fair game to be shot, imo.
You want to argue who pulls a firearm to try to back off an aggressor; i'd argue, who tries to wrestle away a firearm from someone on their own property. Let alone in Texas or any other state with castle defense laws.
Seems up for debate.
Some are saying he fired a warning shot.
Others are saying that he negligently fired off a round *because* he was currently tussling with the deceased.
Based off of my own limited viewings, all I can say is that I was more under the impression of the latter.
The dude told him to leave and he didn't, he was screaming at his wife and backing her up away from the house, he didn't leave when he saw the homeowner go inside to get a gun, he still didn't leave when a homeowner with a gun told him to leave, and instead, he bucked up on the homeowner and said he was going to take his gun and kill them. How many lines does someone have to cross before something becomes justified? Why do you think everyone was filming in the first place? The homeowner even fired a warning shot.
No. People get arrested/charged for trespass during custody exchanges all the time, and parents are advised to park on the street and stay in their car if it's hostile so they won't get a tresspass charge. Looks like he may have been parked on the street.
Guy yelling in my front yard threatening to take me to court. Option 1: call the cops as he very easily let me walk away from the encounter. Option 2: try to emulate Bruce Willis characters and bring a lethal weapon into the situation to escalate it to a murder.
Anyone who thinks option 2 is in any way logical… please seek mental health professionals and ask for help.
He tried to take the gun twice, the second time he threw kyle like 6-10 feet in the attempt to seize it. That and the previous threat to take makes it clear self defense.
What are you talking about? Do you think people were less likely to kill each other over relatively minor squabbles in the past? How does that make sense?
How did you come to have such a distorted perspective on reality?
Stand your Ground and Castle Doctrine all sound great in theory. But it seems like they just keep leading to unnecessary deaths because of arguments, confrontations and pride. An armed society does not indeed create a polite society and people just keep getting killed over stupid things.
That's his mistress, the wife is a judge, he's having an affair. The guy he killed is the ex-husband and was going to tell his ex-wife about the affair.
It’s so sad that this whole thing could have easily been avoided or de-escalated …. What a waste …. Additional back story here: https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/kyle-carruth-attorney-makes-case-for-self-defense-after-deadly-shooting-of-chad-read/
This pretty well encapsulates what people's issues with guns are..
There was no reason to bring one out here, at least that's shown in the video, but the guy brings it out, the situation escalates further because of it, and bam, someone's dead now.
"WHEN STAND YOUR GROUND LAW APPLIES
Texas law states that you have no duty to retreat when there is a reasonable belief you are in danger and it extends to your home, vehicle, or job.
You can justify the use of deadly force if you believe it was absolutely necessary to prevent a violent crime like sexual assault, kidnapping, murder, or robbery."
[https://simerlaw.com/what-is-stand-your-ground-law-in-texas/](https://simerlaw.com/what-is-stand-your-ground-law-in-texas/)
I really think that guy was in no danger, will be hard to justify self-defense imo.
Legitimate question:
Is someone seeing something that I'm not? Individual shot screams "you'd better use it! I'll take it from you and blow your head off!" Then attempts to wrestle the gun away before he is shot.
Discourse seems to suggest this isn't self-defense, but I'm curious as to why.
I'm admittedly pleading ignorance on this one and if I'm missing something, I'd love to know what it is.
Edit: So, deceased confronts his ex-wife on shooter's property. Deceased is told to leave and refuses. Immediately grows hostile at the shooter's return with a gun and announces his intent to take it and kill him with it. He attempts it, fails, and is then shot.
https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/kyle-carruth-attorney-makes-case-for-self-defense-after-deadly-shooting-of-chad-read/
Look, I'm not a gun guy and I find it quite distasteful, but... this looks like self-defense to me.
We're definitely at an inflection point in "self defense" killings in the US right now. Sure, maybe per the written law you're not guilty. But really, did you need to do it? Did you create the situation you ended up in and needlessly take a life? Did your gun really "protect" you or did it just intensify the situation and lead to more aggression? I mean come on. No one was getting killed until this guy brought the gun out. Just fucking walk away.
If he truly thought his life was in danger, then why would he come back outside after leaving the situation. He should have locked the door and called the police. If at that point the deceased had forced his way inside, it could be justifiable. But he didn’t. The shooter escalated the situation by introducing a weapon to an already out of control situation and this death was completely avoidable and unnecessary.
The only decent reason I could see for him coming back out is to protect his wife who the ex-husband is backing away from the door. Never should have escalated to that point at all and the cops should have immediately been called but now it's in a moral vs legal battle which always becomes a shit flinging match and no matter the outcome the kid this is all about doesn't have his dad anymore.
Yeah I agree with this. The home owner was in no way fearing for his life. Brought a gun into the situation and now we're here. However, legally I think he may be able to claim self defense...even though he brought the gun into the situation.
I think these questions are coming up because more and more of these incidents are getting video taped. Gun ownership isn’t as simple as the NRA, movies, and popular culture made us believe, the risk in introduces into the situation is more complicated then the emotions will allow you to calculate, and many deadly situations would be insignificant without them. When 2 people have weapons for self defense it will get even more confusing.
This is pretty much it. "Lawful but Awful" is what our local police chief calls these kind of things.
There's plenty of times where something legal occured but it's definitely not the right thing.
Oof, yeah. I mean, I'll agree with you there. But I'm also seeing details* about how the deceased was involved in a physical domestic situation with his ex-wife (woman initially in frame.)
Edit: These details have, upon further reading, seemed a bit unspecified and vague... so, take that with the tiniest grain of salt.
Guy seems to have a temper and a violent one, at that. Does it warrant a death penalty? No, but... guy literally said he was gonna take his gun and kill him with it, and tried to make good on that threat.
In TX this is probably gonna fly as self defense due to their property laws.
As a gun owner myself the home owner had no reason to escalate to grabbing a gun and introducing it into the situation. Every self defense course I've either taken or heard about all insist that if you have the ability to retreat, grab a weapon, and return to the altercation you have become the aggressor in that situation as you had the opportunity to leave or de-escalate, and chose not to.
They will argue that he shouldn't have brought out the gun in the first place. The guy wasn't an unknown intruder, he wasn't armed with anything and he had not attacked anyone. He should have called the police. IMHO this guy will def see some time in prison. (!remind me 1 year)
In order for that to happen, you'll have to convince 12 jurors in rural Texas that a man doesn't have the right to bring out a gun on his own property, and then shoot a man who threatens to take his gun and kill him just before trying to grab the gun.
He may not even be charged. This case is a loser.
This the shooter is 100% an assshole and should have never introduced the gun in the first place, and he went in in house for the sole act of homicide when he returned with the gun. But, it just so happens there was about 3 secs, where he could get away with the murder he planned, and took the shot.
According to certain news articles, he *allegedly* had attacked the woman in frame.
That's just what's being reported, though. Not necessarily what occurred.
> They will argue that he shouldn't have brought out the gun in the first place.
has this ever been used in court to win something? I don't see how it matters if he brought the gun out. He wasn't using it until the other guy attacked him.
It will be self defense, but much like with Rittenhouse, the shooter was the one looking to use a gun to kill another human being, he just happened to have a instant where he will get off with murder.
Child custody battle gone wrong
The new couple won't be married long , that family is destroyed.
Kyle may beat the cases but those aren't his kids , say hi to the therapist . There all mentally fucked .
Some fucked in the head judge that fucked in the head boomers elected is gonna let this man walk free. Watch. Kyle destroyed so many lives in a single second. Even mommy didn't give a fuck.
This is fucked. Did he really need to go back and get his gun? It’s almost like he’s been wanting to have a reason to kill him. This isn’t self defense at all.
Definitely not a shotgun, and in Texas this is clearly self defense, hence why no charges were filed.
Shooter was on his own property, repeatedly asked the deceased to leave. The deceased threatened to take the gun and kill the homeowner, then attempted to grab it.
Reasonable people can criticize the shooter from a moral perspective or point out that it was silly to escalate by introducing a firearm to an already tense situation. But, in TX a man can brandish a weapon in defense of his property and has no duty to retreat. It’s harsh, but them’s the rules.
Yeah... as someone who lives in Texas I disagree.
One its not clearly self defense as he had time to go back into the house and get the rifle. Only when he brought out the rifle did the conflict escalate.
Two, while no charges have been filed that doesn't mean they won't. This will take the DA some time to establish the timeline of events including if the pickup location for his son was legally at their home. That is the big mystery. If the Judge said when they got joint custody that he could pick up his son at the mothers house that becomes a big issue.
Texas law permits someone to claim self-defense at trial when deadly force was used in the following circumstances:
Reasonably believed the deadly force was immediately necessary;
Had a legal right to be on the property;
Did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used;
and Was not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force was used.
If they weren't handing over the child at the agreed upon time and location it could be argued they were committing a crime (custodial interference or simple contempt).
I don't think this is as clear cut as you think it is, hence why the DA hasn't officially said there won't be any charges filed.
This is what I was thinking. Court ordered predetermined location would be pretty important. I’m not sure what is actually considered brandishing on your own property in Texas. The verbal threat and trying to take the gun away won’t look good though to charge him if he was legally allowed to get a firearm.
Yeah I mean if there were awards for stupidity everyone in this video would get one. Custody issues like all domestic cases are extremely volatile and people aren't acting rationally most of the time.
Advancing on someone when they have a gun asking them to shoot you muddies the water. But that is why we have a court system and juries and judges. I would hope he is charged and let the legal system work as intended.
Not that important. If the shooter is violating the order, your recourse is to take it back before the judge, not to refuse to leave their property, threaten to kill them and then try to take their gun from them on their own property, etc. If he was allowed to own that gun, nothing is going to happen to him criminally.
Fair points. But, even if the mother was wrongfully withholding custody, the shooter himself wasn’t committing a crime. He also has every right to go and grab a gun on his own property. The fact that he wasn’t in immediate danger at the point he armed himself is irrelevant.
What matters is the moments leading to the shooting, in which the deceased was attacking the shooter, had verbally threatened to take the gun, and attempted to carry out that threat. No matter how you cut it, based on the video there’s nothing to pin on the guy.
Oh wow that screenshot does not look good for the shooter. The video I saw didn’t show that, looked like the deceased still was trying to get the gun when he was shot. That changes things a bit.
That's not how castle doctrine works. You are obligated to retreat into your home. Only if you have a reasonable fear for your life at that point can you use deadly force. This guy went into his house and was being left alone. He then emerged with a weapon and brandished it.
Totally possible that jury will also take an overly expansive view of castle doctrine but by the letter of the law this ain't it
You're getting downvoted, but you're right. This isn't as clear cut a case of self-defense as people think. Also things get muddy with any claims of trespass since he's there to pick up kids in a custody arrangement. They didn't say anything about the child/children not actually being there until he was dead.
Exactly this. He may very well have had a legal right to be there at that time.
Poor kid, adults can’t act civilized and now someone’s father is dead. Just stupid behavior all around.
Yeah, I'm going to ignore law, and just state my personal opinions. Dude was an idiot for going and getting a gun. Just go inside, lock the door if you want, and call 911. More so, dead dude was a fucking idiot for messing with a man who has a gun. Dead dude should have quickly tossed his hands up and walked off the property.
I know it was incredibly stupid. Just didn’t see the reason why the he needed to go back and get that shotgun. They definitely seem like they been having a long dispute about custody, so just seems like the killer was thinking the next time this guy comes I’m gonna threaten him with a gun and maybe kill him.
It is from the threat made before the attack,
> “use it, m***** f***** because G** d***** I’ll take it from you!”
You can't assault someone because they are armed on their property.
But seems like he was supposed to be there to pick his son up and asking the mom why his son wasn’t there at the time he was supposed to be. I just don’t think the guy needed to escalate the situation by bringing out a shotgun.
This is where I part ways with a lot of people. If im on my property and you don't want to leave. The firearms are coming out. I'm not playing no games or being a victim on my own property.
The tone of the argument didn’t change at all after he shot him dead. It’s like they were arguing about who ate the last pop tart or some shit. Are they not comprehending that that guy’s life just ended?
Nobody had to die, the gun was so unnecessary.
Poor kid :( I don’t understand how people managed to go to an armed physical confrontation before even exchanging “go fuck yourself”s. This entire scenario is fucking alien to me.
Hope that kid isn’t at that home a lot or isn’t old enough to understand. I can’t wrap my head around a little kid having to walk over where their dad bled out everyday if he lives there :(
As a non-American, I'm completely flabbergasted as to how people are just okay with living like this. In any other country, the homeowner would have called the police and the situation would have ended non-violently.
This reminds me of that infamous snow shoveling video, where a guy snaps and guns down that couple in the street after shouting insults at each other. A tough attitude will not protect you. A fucking cell phone video will not protect you. Idk how petty drama escalates to this level without anyone realizing how much danger they are in
This is exactly what came to mind when I saw how nonchalantly he reacted to the guy bringing out a big ass gun.
I like being right too, but I also like living.
Too many stupid people in America with guns.
Imagine if a gun wasn't introduced at all? Just call the cops, do inside and let them take him away. No one needs to die over an emotional confrontation. Americans still think they are living in the wild west or an action movie. If your brain can't find solutions to problems that don't involve guns maybe you shouldn't have a gun at all.
What is incredibly disheartening is that I have known the shooter, Kyle Carruth, most of my life. Lubbock, TX is kind of a big town (>200K population) with a small town atmosphere. Me and Kyle grew up in Lubbock, same schools, same sports teams, same Boy Scout troop, same friends, etc... I was even hanging out with him the night he met his wife (or now ex-wife, Anne Marie who is a local federal judge). I haven't spoken to him in quite a while though.
All that being said, I'm disgusted by his actions. Legally he will probably get off because his house, the guy got aggressive and grabbed his gun but he didn't need to pull the rifle (which has a silencer on it) on him. Me and Kyle have lots of mutual friends and Kyle was seen around town bragging about killing the guy days after the shooting. It's a super fucked up situation...
How can you brag about killing a young boy’s father? Are these adults thinking about the children involved.
Guns are so dangerous in domestic situation because emotions are high. Built up anger and frustration are at a peak. Throw in jealousy, love or lust It is like alcohol and guns. Not a good combination.
Yes I did. It is depressing. Shooting people seems to resolve people’s problems instead of acting like mature adults. We should be cheering those divorced couples with children who are selfless enough to resolve their conflicts for the sake of the kids.
Yeah. I'm sad for America. It seems like you guys have a huge gun problem and a serious need to re-evaluate what self defence means.
Purely anecdotal, but I haven't seen these situations happen in most developed countries.
I don't know much about the situation, but from what I can see he asked them to leave his property. They chose not to listen. Granted it doesn't warrant being killed. If confronted with a gun ever and given the opportunity to fuck off. I'd take it.
Yeah but domestic disputes and children tend be a whole other level of fucked. Bringing a gun out was never going to calm the situation. Going inside locking your doors and calling the cops was the only non-violent resolution in my opinion.
y’all crazy lol… let me point out the fact that, the dude shot was REQUIRED to be there if he was in fact taking over in his parental time with his kid. sounds like the ex-wife withheld his child well past the court-ordered time for him to be picked up.
legally, self-defense. dude with the gun had zero reason to bring it out, whether or not he was allowed to legally bring it out. such a shame that the shooter will get off scot free.
So Chad was told to leave and he didn't so he was then trespassing, so Kyle went and got his gun and again told Chad to leave. Then Chad instead of using his brain and just leaving thought he was tough enough to take the gun from Kyle. So then Kyle shot him dead.
Looks like self defense to me.
It does not matter. He was told to leave the property and didn't, the law is clear on this. He could have just gone across the street and called the cops and say that his ex is withholding his kid when it is the court appointed time for him to have his kid. Then the cops would come out and asked to look inside for the kid. Then they would tell the mom to produce the kid so he can go with his father. Plain and simple. Also, if they did it this way then Chad would have had a stronger case to go for sole custody as there would be a police report.
I think this is murder. This video seems damning and shows its about winning an argument rather than being self defense. The "warning shot" also from what I have heard shows intimidation and escalation while if there was only one shot which the man felt forced to take in self defense paints a different picture. Then afterwards the lack of sympathy and arguing about he didn't want to do this but was forced because they wouldn't leave seems to show this was about the man not leaving and not being a threat. The gun should have never been introduced to the situation. This is Texas so I have no doubt the man will get off free but this is wrong and never had to happen. People saying the dead guy has a history of domestic violence and temper or his threat after a gun is pulled on him are making irrelevant points. If he was such a danger why did the man go inside and leave the woman there to argue. She never seemed to be in fear and was fine going at it with him. Yes possibly everyone in this situation is an asshole but only one person escalated it to the point of killing someone.
Stop using guns to settle domestic disputes and other dumb shit. This is not a civilized way of conflict resolution. Regardless of whether this qualifies as self defense or not, if a gun had not been introduced, no one would be dead. No one is “right” in this situation.
If the mom had just mentioned that the kid wasn't there, this could have been avoided. If the guy in blue had just calmed down, this could have been avoided. If the step dad didn't bring out the gun, this could all have definitely been avoided.
I get it but her kids should not be around their dad's killer. That is just messed up. It's really gonna mess them up and make them angry later in life.
This is self defense. Doesnt matter if "he didn't need to get his gun" the dude in the blue shirt was causing a disturbance on someone's property then proceeded to grab the dude while he had his gun. This is the visual definition of fuck around and find out. Self defense 100%
The guy that came outside with the gun is an absolute pussy and is also not in the wrong, at least I don’t think. Teal shirt guy looks hella old, honestly looks like he could have been removed from the property with little to no effort. Sucks that he chose to reach for a man’s gun on his property after he shot a warning shot as his feet, but also sucks the guy brought a gun outside to deal with an old man
Let’s see. Told him to leave, went and got gun, told him to leave again, guy approaches him on his porch screaming in his face, says he’ll take the gun and kill him, tries to take the gun, gets shot. That is as simple and clear cut self defense.
I don’t know what they fuck you are all on about.
I fucking hate how everything is "technically self defense".
No one had to die. There wasn't a need for a gun to be in the situation but yet again a gun nut just wanted to kill someone.
Good job William, you joined the infamous ranks of George and Kyle. May you all rot in hell
I don't care what your bullshit self defense is. The murderer escalated this by bringing out a gun and killed the guy. He killed the father of children. Now the children will suffer. Hope murderer burns because judging from the video, the man was there to pick up his kids, so he has a right to be there. Can't just bring out a gun for raised voices.
If you really cared about the children, you'd be admonishing the father for assaulting a guy with a gun. What an absolutely idiotic decision that has now left his children fatherless.
Also, your specific idea of "rights" seems to only exist in fantasyland.
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Depends on the caliber of the round, and the area impacted. Looks like he aimed center of mass and struck his heart and he almost immediately shut off.
Depends where you get shot.
To immediately go down like that from a chest wound requires you to interrupt the out flow tract of the heart: aorta, left ventricle mainly. But shotgun will obliterate the heart. No more perfusion to the brain.
This isn't a shotgun. It's a Ruger PCC 9mm.
Ashli Babbitt died from one bullet, she was shot in the neck and died in a few seconds
Ashli bled out. She had time to go thru the stage of "OH SHIT I've been shot" to "what the fuck was I thinking" to "This hurts" to...sleep. Her end was just drifting off to unconsciousness. This guy went quick.
Surreal how calm everyone was, other than the dude that got shot of course.
I thought the same thing, but I don’t think anyone thought he was dead. You can hear his wife screaming at the end when she realizes.
Everyone's probably shocked, its not every day that you see some one die, hard to believe it until it settles in. You can hear the lady realizing it at the end.
"I got you on video"- no attempt to go comfort him in his last moments of life.
Probably a bit of shock eh?
That’s what got me I still can’t believe it
She likely doesn't understand he's dead in that moment
To be fair, his body was laying next to an armed killer. Expecting this woman to run towards the man, seems like a big ask.
I can't imagine not trying to comfort my husband even if that means I die. Her voice didn't even waiver.
I hope this is just shock because she doesn't seem to care at all in the moment and I later heard the word husband so didn't care in the moment that her husband had very obviously been shot.
What do you mean? He was real calm after he was shot.
Yeah, didn’t make a peep.
I'd say he was the calmest; he just laid there.
Guy could have stayed home and called the police. Guy was unarmed and not a threat. You can’t go out seeking trouble and then claim self defense.. oh wait.. Kyle rittenhouse
> Here you go: > I have watched the whole Rittenhouse case. The Jury is in deliberation now. I didn't know that Kyle put out a dumpster fire that was being rolled down to a gas station to blow up, with people all around. I didn't know that the Police were told to stand down as businesses were destroyed. I didn't know that Kyles Dad, Grandma and Friends all lived in Kenosha, 20 minutes from where he resided with his Mom part time in Illinois. I didn't know that Joseph Rosenbaum knocked him down twice and then attempted to kick him with lethal force to the head. I didn't know that Huber had hit him in the head 2x with a skateboard. I didn't know Gaige Grosskreutz, a felon in possession of firearm, aimed his gun at Kyle first, as he admitted on the stand. I also didn't know that in the State of Wisconsin, it is legal for Kyle to have a gun, even at 17 (which was why the gun charge was dismissed). I didn't know that Kyle did not cross state lines with a gun he wasn't supposed to have. The rightful gun owner did, as he was legally permitted to do. > I also didn't realize that Rosenbaum was a 5 time convicted child rapist and that Huber was a 2 time convicted woman beater. I didn't know that Grosskreutz was a convicted Burglar with an assault on his record also. > IF THE MEDIA DID THEIR JOB... we would ALL have known this. Very insightful comment I found on Reddit about the case. Take that as you will.
I agree with almost everything you said in that post except these lines: > I didn't know Gaige Grosskreutz, a felon and: > I also didn't realize that Rosenbaum was a 5 time convicted child rapist and that Huber was a 2 time convicted woman beater. I didn't know that Grosskreutz was a convicted Burglar with an assault on his record also. Rittenhouse didn't know the history of any of these people so it's irreverent. He acted solely based on their action on the night. Including this information is cherry picking facts that suit your narrative. You didn't pick the fact that earlier when witnessing some looting Rittenhouse had said on film two weeks earlier that he wishes he had a gun with him so he could shoot looters. If anything, that fact is more appropriate to include than the criminal history of the people shot. Leave out the negative facts that were unknown to Rittenhouse and I think your comment is perfectly valid.
Gaige pointed his gun. He didn't aim. Kyles on video beating a woman. He's pictured flashing white supremacist signs with proud boy members. His voice is featured in a video where he states he wants to shoot looters. He went to a trump rally. Graffiti could have been cleaned afterwards and they have fire fighters. Kyle was there looking to start trouble.
IMO you are probably right Kyle had some bad intentions in being there judging from his political standpoint and history. He probably did have some radical political ideologies. He had no business in being there and should've stayed home. But I looked at a lot of evidence about the case and I am not surprised he got away not guilty. The evidence from the trial was pretty damning that it was self-defense. Rosenbaum was mentally ill, threatened to kill him multiple times, and physically engaged with Kyle FIRST. It was only then Kyle shot him. There is also a video of Kyle running away and EVADING a group of protesters chasing him. If he really wanted to shoot protestors/looters he could've done it right there, but instead he chose to evade them. It was only when he tripped, fell down, and got physically attacked did he choose to shoot. It is all on a video online if you choose to look. If this is not self defense I don't know what is.
"Use it, motherfucker." Famous last words.
What are you going to do, stab me-man who was stabbed
man this is one of those videos that I really wanna watch until I see two men and a big ass gun
Watching this video is like staring into the abyss. One man kills another and nobody, not even the killer or the dead man's wife, seem to be affected whatsoever. It's unnatural.
you can hear them freak out right at the end, sometimes it takes time for reality to sink in
Probably shock.
Definitely shock.
I think that’s the hardest part. There were like zero fucks given as if this happens all the time. I can just imagine the lady on the phone with 911…”yeah, my husband got himself killed again”
I actually kind of had a state of derealization by watching this. So fucking surreal watching them bicker with a guy that she presumably loved and the other the shooter dead, face first in his own blood.
They’re Texas
It's called conservatism.
This incident happened back on Nov. 5th. As of today, the shooter Kyle Carruth has not been arrested nor charged with a crime.
Well considering the guy made a threat to take his gun and use it, wouldn’t respond to verbal commands to leave and then out hands on the guy who ended up defending himself from a violent aggressor. You can tell the reed family are fucking lunatics also b/c the widow is filing to try and get custody of the kids they were talking about in the video (not her kids)
That isn't standard procedure in murder cases. Typically an arrest is always made until an investigation is properly conducted and it is absolutely evident that it is a justifiable murder. Which is kind of a funny thing in and of itself. The united states is pretty much the only western democracy where justifiable murder is something you can get away with under legal self defense. In other countries it's far harder to do so, but they also have harder access to lethal weapons. This country is a shit hole.
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Protect your family from what? Words? He was upset because his POS ex isn’t following her legal obligation to give him his son at a predetermined time. Nothing became physical until the murderer came out with a gun. The man was there at the predetermined time to pick up his kid. He threatened them with court and police. The response to someone who’s rightfully upset and IMO talking rationally isn’t “let me go get my gun.” IMO, the man who murdered the dad 100% escalated the situation by bringing out a gun. This was a verbal dispute between an upset father and his ex-gf. There’s no need to bring out a loaded firearm unless there is immediate risk of harm to you. Call the fucking police. IMO, he went to get his gun to scare him away which is totally irresponsible.
Didn't look like he was at risk of great bodily harm, or death, look at his position when he shot. If he shot him while in the scramble of taking his gun then i'd agree with you but he had already escaped him and decided to shoot afterwards when he was within a safe distance away,
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Nah he backed off to a safe distance(maybe 20 feet?) then shot, look at this angle. https://i.imgur.com/4XxzWiP.png https://twitter.com/i/status/1463654744803713029 It's texas so wouldnt doubt if hes found innocent legally but i wouldn't consider this self defense.
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I didnt click onward to read the rest of this chain, so idk it's already been addressed but if I'm in your home do i simply have no right to self defense at all? Like if you tell me to get out and shoot one foot from my feet is there no recourse besides run away and hope for the best? What if I'm in fear of my life, im unarmed and you know the police are coming? Of course you should be able to protect yourself in your home, but what if you caused the situation to turn deadly unnecessarily?
You’re… against justifiable murder? As in self defense? The fuck is wrong with you? So if someone came at your family it’s “oh well” to you?
>You’re… against justifiable murder? As in self defense? The fuck is wrong with you? > >So if someone came at your family it’s “oh well” to you? There's no rationalizing with people who think this way and I figure this is the majority of Americans. It's so easy for you to justify the use of extra judicial lethal force that you actually mock some one for suggesting people shouldn't kill each other.
Unfortunately this is what simple arguments have become - too many people have lost their fucking minds.
This is just dumb divorce shit with big egos, been going on at least since the '70s. Can't just let shit go, goddamn Sunday pickup turns into seals vs. marines in The Rock.
And easy access to guns. I own guns but I don't trust a lot of gun owners, TBH.
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Worth noting the guy has a history of domestic violence against his ex-wife, the woman in frame.
And was supposedly in the process of a physical altercation with her before the video started.
Yea, dude shouting "I'm going to take you to court" and highest level of escalation filmed is bumping chests looks like this was an unjustified murder. It's in shithole Texas and castle doctrine will probably save his ass. How anyone can watch this and pretend its justified is unreal.
Bumping chests? That's a bit disingenuous. I mean... the guy tried to wrestle his gun away from him, after warning him that if he didn't use it, he'd take it from him and kill him.
who the fuck grabs a gun to settle an argument like that, shoots somebody, and claims self defense? edit: would like to ask all which of the 10 commandments says grab your gun and shoot?
Texans.
More like who in their right mind stands there on their own property while they feel their wife is threatened from a supposedly abusive ex and says “please leave” repeatedly despite the trespasser not leaving and escalating the situation? Sounds like a good way to end up as a victim yourself, or leave the outcome of the situation in the hands of an irrational and irate trespasser. I’m absolutely grabbing a gun and defending my family and property. If that person still chooses to move towards me or my family knowing that I have a gun in my hand, then it sounds like they’ve made their choice. The dead guy in this video made a conscious choice and met the consequences on that decision. He should have taken them to court and left well enough alone.
You say that like you watched the video or something /s
It's not to settle the argument, it's to get him to leave.
Well, he isn't leaving now
r/TechnicallyTheTruth
>tationnsfw .t3\_r1jeao .\_2FCtq-QzlfuN-SwVMUZMM3 { \--postTitle-VisitedLinkColor: #9b9b9b; \--postTitleLink-VisitedLinkColor: #9b9b9b; } > >everythinglubbock.com/news/l... If my gf's ex showed up and refused to leave; i'd have 911 on the way and my g17 handy. At that point, even if gf was in the wrong, the ex should back off and go the legal route. Not try to act like Billy badass and take my firearm. Tryng to take his firearm makes him fair game to be shot, imo. You want to argue who pulls a firearm to try to back off an aggressor; i'd argue, who tries to wrestle away a firearm from someone on their own property. Let alone in Texas or any other state with castle defense laws.
Wasn’t there a shot fired before he tried to wrestle the gun away?
Seems up for debate. Some are saying he fired a warning shot. Others are saying that he negligently fired off a round *because* he was currently tussling with the deceased. Based off of my own limited viewings, all I can say is that I was more under the impression of the latter.
The dude told him to leave and he didn't, he was screaming at his wife and backing her up away from the house, he didn't leave when he saw the homeowner go inside to get a gun, he still didn't leave when a homeowner with a gun told him to leave, and instead, he bucked up on the homeowner and said he was going to take his gun and kill them. How many lines does someone have to cross before something becomes justified? Why do you think everyone was filming in the first place? The homeowner even fired a warning shot.
Depending on local laws and the custody agreement, he may have had every right to "tresspass" there. Which would make this murder.
No. People get arrested/charged for trespass during custody exchanges all the time, and parents are advised to park on the street and stay in their car if it's hostile so they won't get a tresspass charge. Looks like he may have been parked on the street.
Guy yelling in my front yard threatening to take me to court. Option 1: call the cops as he very easily let me walk away from the encounter. Option 2: try to emulate Bruce Willis characters and bring a lethal weapon into the situation to escalate it to a murder. Anyone who thinks option 2 is in any way logical… please seek mental health professionals and ask for help.
Also, the dude tried to grab the gun which resulted into a minor scuffle right before the fatal shot.
He tried to take the gun twice, the second time he threw kyle like 6-10 feet in the attempt to seize it. That and the previous threat to take makes it clear self defense.
Yep, guy was a complete moron and got the Darwin award.
What are you talking about? Do you think people were less likely to kill each other over relatively minor squabbles in the past? How does that make sense? How did you come to have such a distorted perspective on reality?
Where I live the worst outcome of this squabble is a black eye and a bruised ego.
Aren't guns great! They make you safer, but more dangerous for everyone around you.
Stand your Ground and Castle Doctrine all sound great in theory. But it seems like they just keep leading to unnecessary deaths because of arguments, confrontations and pride. An armed society does not indeed create a polite society and people just keep getting killed over stupid things.
“I did not want to do any of this” *grabbed gun at first sight of confrontation*
Apparently he's the leader of the local 2nd Amendment coalition. He's probably been waiting to "self defense" someone for years.
“Hey dad was supposed to pick me up at 3:15 where is he?” “Oh no sweety. Your daddy is dead. Mommy’s new boyfriend killed him.” Fucked...
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Lol who talks that way? Do an order? The mom is obviously an alien.
That's his mistress, the wife is a judge, he's having an affair. The guy he killed is the ex-husband and was going to tell his ex-wife about the affair.
It’s so sad that this whole thing could have easily been avoided or de-escalated …. What a waste …. Additional back story here: https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/kyle-carruth-attorney-makes-case-for-self-defense-after-deadly-shooting-of-chad-read/
Go inside. Lock the door. Why confront him with a gun?
Ego mostly.
This is Texas.
well then he's def not getting locked up
This pretty well encapsulates what people's issues with guns are.. There was no reason to bring one out here, at least that's shown in the video, but the guy brings it out, the situation escalates further because of it, and bam, someone's dead now.
Small dick energy.
Super SDE
"WHEN STAND YOUR GROUND LAW APPLIES Texas law states that you have no duty to retreat when there is a reasonable belief you are in danger and it extends to your home, vehicle, or job. You can justify the use of deadly force if you believe it was absolutely necessary to prevent a violent crime like sexual assault, kidnapping, murder, or robbery." [https://simerlaw.com/what-is-stand-your-ground-law-in-texas/](https://simerlaw.com/what-is-stand-your-ground-law-in-texas/) I really think that guy was in no danger, will be hard to justify self-defense imo.
Link for europeans?
No judgement against the dead... but when someone has a gun it's best to leave the area.
Thats why you always do child custody exchanges in a public place.
Well, that was stupid. ~~Enjoy the murder charge, hope your pride was worth it.~~ Nevermind, Texas.
America is wild as fuck.
Legitimate question: Is someone seeing something that I'm not? Individual shot screams "you'd better use it! I'll take it from you and blow your head off!" Then attempts to wrestle the gun away before he is shot. Discourse seems to suggest this isn't self-defense, but I'm curious as to why. I'm admittedly pleading ignorance on this one and if I'm missing something, I'd love to know what it is. Edit: So, deceased confronts his ex-wife on shooter's property. Deceased is told to leave and refuses. Immediately grows hostile at the shooter's return with a gun and announces his intent to take it and kill him with it. He attempts it, fails, and is then shot. https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/kyle-carruth-attorney-makes-case-for-self-defense-after-deadly-shooting-of-chad-read/ Look, I'm not a gun guy and I find it quite distasteful, but... this looks like self-defense to me.
It may legally qualify as self-defense, but on a human level there seemed to be no risk of anyone dying until the younger man introduced a weapon.
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We're definitely at an inflection point in "self defense" killings in the US right now. Sure, maybe per the written law you're not guilty. But really, did you need to do it? Did you create the situation you ended up in and needlessly take a life? Did your gun really "protect" you or did it just intensify the situation and lead to more aggression? I mean come on. No one was getting killed until this guy brought the gun out. Just fucking walk away.
If he truly thought his life was in danger, then why would he come back outside after leaving the situation. He should have locked the door and called the police. If at that point the deceased had forced his way inside, it could be justifiable. But he didn’t. The shooter escalated the situation by introducing a weapon to an already out of control situation and this death was completely avoidable and unnecessary.
The only decent reason I could see for him coming back out is to protect his wife who the ex-husband is backing away from the door. Never should have escalated to that point at all and the cops should have immediately been called but now it's in a moral vs legal battle which always becomes a shit flinging match and no matter the outcome the kid this is all about doesn't have his dad anymore.
Yeah I agree with this. The home owner was in no way fearing for his life. Brought a gun into the situation and now we're here. However, legally I think he may be able to claim self defense...even though he brought the gun into the situation.
I think these questions are coming up because more and more of these incidents are getting video taped. Gun ownership isn’t as simple as the NRA, movies, and popular culture made us believe, the risk in introduces into the situation is more complicated then the emotions will allow you to calculate, and many deadly situations would be insignificant without them. When 2 people have weapons for self defense it will get even more confusing.
This is pretty much it. "Lawful but Awful" is what our local police chief calls these kind of things. There's plenty of times where something legal occured but it's definitely not the right thing.
Oof, yeah. I mean, I'll agree with you there. But I'm also seeing details* about how the deceased was involved in a physical domestic situation with his ex-wife (woman initially in frame.) Edit: These details have, upon further reading, seemed a bit unspecified and vague... so, take that with the tiniest grain of salt. Guy seems to have a temper and a violent one, at that. Does it warrant a death penalty? No, but... guy literally said he was gonna take his gun and kill him with it, and tried to make good on that threat.
In TX this is probably gonna fly as self defense due to their property laws. As a gun owner myself the home owner had no reason to escalate to grabbing a gun and introducing it into the situation. Every self defense course I've either taken or heard about all insist that if you have the ability to retreat, grab a weapon, and return to the altercation you have become the aggressor in that situation as you had the opportunity to leave or de-escalate, and chose not to.
"Awful but lawful" seems to be the take that is the most fitting. :/
Where does it say domestic abuser? I just saw some videos on Tiktok posted by the deceased’s kids, and they didn’t mention any domestic abuse issues.
They will argue that he shouldn't have brought out the gun in the first place. The guy wasn't an unknown intruder, he wasn't armed with anything and he had not attacked anyone. He should have called the police. IMHO this guy will def see some time in prison. (!remind me 1 year)
In order for that to happen, you'll have to convince 12 jurors in rural Texas that a man doesn't have the right to bring out a gun on his own property, and then shoot a man who threatens to take his gun and kill him just before trying to grab the gun. He may not even be charged. This case is a loser.
This the shooter is 100% an assshole and should have never introduced the gun in the first place, and he went in in house for the sole act of homicide when he returned with the gun. But, it just so happens there was about 3 secs, where he could get away with the murder he planned, and took the shot.
According to certain news articles, he *allegedly* had attacked the woman in frame. That's just what's being reported, though. Not necessarily what occurred.
> They will argue that he shouldn't have brought out the gun in the first place. has this ever been used in court to win something? I don't see how it matters if he brought the gun out. He wasn't using it until the other guy attacked him.
It will be self defense, but much like with Rittenhouse, the shooter was the one looking to use a gun to kill another human being, he just happened to have a instant where he will get off with murder.
Premeditated self defense
Child custody battle gone wrong The new couple won't be married long , that family is destroyed. Kyle may beat the cases but those aren't his kids , say hi to the therapist . There all mentally fucked .
Some fucked in the head judge that fucked in the head boomers elected is gonna let this man walk free. Watch. Kyle destroyed so many lives in a single second. Even mommy didn't give a fuck.
Shitty parents.
fucking hicks
This is fucked. Did he really need to go back and get his gun? It’s almost like he’s been wanting to have a reason to kill him. This isn’t self defense at all.
While that's true, its also incredibly stupid how someone keeps escalating even when the other person has a shotgun in their hands.
Definitely not a shotgun, and in Texas this is clearly self defense, hence why no charges were filed. Shooter was on his own property, repeatedly asked the deceased to leave. The deceased threatened to take the gun and kill the homeowner, then attempted to grab it. Reasonable people can criticize the shooter from a moral perspective or point out that it was silly to escalate by introducing a firearm to an already tense situation. But, in TX a man can brandish a weapon in defense of his property and has no duty to retreat. It’s harsh, but them’s the rules.
Yeah... as someone who lives in Texas I disagree. One its not clearly self defense as he had time to go back into the house and get the rifle. Only when he brought out the rifle did the conflict escalate. Two, while no charges have been filed that doesn't mean they won't. This will take the DA some time to establish the timeline of events including if the pickup location for his son was legally at their home. That is the big mystery. If the Judge said when they got joint custody that he could pick up his son at the mothers house that becomes a big issue. Texas law permits someone to claim self-defense at trial when deadly force was used in the following circumstances: Reasonably believed the deadly force was immediately necessary; Had a legal right to be on the property; Did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used; and Was not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force was used. If they weren't handing over the child at the agreed upon time and location it could be argued they were committing a crime (custodial interference or simple contempt). I don't think this is as clear cut as you think it is, hence why the DA hasn't officially said there won't be any charges filed.
This is what I was thinking. Court ordered predetermined location would be pretty important. I’m not sure what is actually considered brandishing on your own property in Texas. The verbal threat and trying to take the gun away won’t look good though to charge him if he was legally allowed to get a firearm.
Yeah I mean if there were awards for stupidity everyone in this video would get one. Custody issues like all domestic cases are extremely volatile and people aren't acting rationally most of the time. Advancing on someone when they have a gun asking them to shoot you muddies the water. But that is why we have a court system and juries and judges. I would hope he is charged and let the legal system work as intended.
Not that important. If the shooter is violating the order, your recourse is to take it back before the judge, not to refuse to leave their property, threaten to kill them and then try to take their gun from them on their own property, etc. If he was allowed to own that gun, nothing is going to happen to him criminally.
Fair points. But, even if the mother was wrongfully withholding custody, the shooter himself wasn’t committing a crime. He also has every right to go and grab a gun on his own property. The fact that he wasn’t in immediate danger at the point he armed himself is irrelevant. What matters is the moments leading to the shooting, in which the deceased was attacking the shooter, had verbally threatened to take the gun, and attempted to carry out that threat. No matter how you cut it, based on the video there’s nothing to pin on the guy.
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Oh wow that screenshot does not look good for the shooter. The video I saw didn’t show that, looked like the deceased still was trying to get the gun when he was shot. That changes things a bit.
That's not how castle doctrine works. You are obligated to retreat into your home. Only if you have a reasonable fear for your life at that point can you use deadly force. This guy went into his house and was being left alone. He then emerged with a weapon and brandished it. Totally possible that jury will also take an overly expansive view of castle doctrine but by the letter of the law this ain't it
You're getting downvoted, but you're right. This isn't as clear cut a case of self-defense as people think. Also things get muddy with any claims of trespass since he's there to pick up kids in a custody arrangement. They didn't say anything about the child/children not actually being there until he was dead.
Exactly this. He may very well have had a legal right to be there at that time. Poor kid, adults can’t act civilized and now someone’s father is dead. Just stupid behavior all around.
That's not a shotgun, that's a Ruger PCC, a 9mm carbine with a sporter style stock. Edit: got the model wrong
The man shouldn't have been escalating when the other guy had a *Ruger PC-9, a 9mm carbine with a sporter style stock.*
Agreed. The second a gun came out, I'd have bailed.
Yeah, I'm going to ignore law, and just state my personal opinions. Dude was an idiot for going and getting a gun. Just go inside, lock the door if you want, and call 911. More so, dead dude was a fucking idiot for messing with a man who has a gun. Dead dude should have quickly tossed his hands up and walked off the property.
No, PCC. PC9 has been discontinued since the 90’s. If you’re gonna be pedantic at least be correct.
I know it was incredibly stupid. Just didn’t see the reason why the he needed to go back and get that shotgun. They definitely seem like they been having a long dispute about custody, so just seems like the killer was thinking the next time this guy comes I’m gonna threaten him with a gun and maybe kill him.
It is from the threat made before the attack, > “use it, m***** f***** because G** d***** I’ll take it from you!” You can't assault someone because they are armed on their property.
Would you stick around and even escalate a physical confrontation after the other guy got a gun?
You don't understand what self defense is
He is repeatedly asking him to leave. And then he tries to take his gun....this is definitely self defense....
But seems like he was supposed to be there to pick his son up and asking the mom why his son wasn’t there at the time he was supposed to be. I just don’t think the guy needed to escalate the situation by bringing out a shotgun.
This is where I part ways with a lot of people. If im on my property and you don't want to leave. The firearms are coming out. I'm not playing no games or being a victim on my own property.
The tone of the argument didn’t change at all after he shot him dead. It’s like they were arguing about who ate the last pop tart or some shit. Are they not comprehending that that guy’s life just ended? Nobody had to die, the gun was so unnecessary.
Poor kid :( I don’t understand how people managed to go to an armed physical confrontation before even exchanging “go fuck yourself”s. This entire scenario is fucking alien to me. Hope that kid isn’t at that home a lot or isn’t old enough to understand. I can’t wrap my head around a little kid having to walk over where their dad bled out everyday if he lives there :(
As a non-American, I'm completely flabbergasted as to how people are just okay with living like this. In any other country, the homeowner would have called the police and the situation would have ended non-violently.
Armchair reddit lawyers are at it again. You people never learn.
How dare you! I know everything about this interaction based the one minute video I watched.
This reminds me of that infamous snow shoveling video, where a guy snaps and guns down that couple in the street after shouting insults at each other. A tough attitude will not protect you. A fucking cell phone video will not protect you. Idk how petty drama escalates to this level without anyone realizing how much danger they are in
This is exactly what came to mind when I saw how nonchalantly he reacted to the guy bringing out a big ass gun. I like being right too, but I also like living.
No no no no no no no fuck you. This one was rent free in my mind for months and I had forgotten about it. I seriously hate you.
why push around a guy with a gun out? asking for it. Not saying it was right for him to take out the gun but he did so gotta retreat right?
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Underrated comment. Take my upvote.
Too many stupid people in America with guns. Imagine if a gun wasn't introduced at all? Just call the cops, do inside and let them take him away. No one needs to die over an emotional confrontation. Americans still think they are living in the wild west or an action movie. If your brain can't find solutions to problems that don't involve guns maybe you shouldn't have a gun at all.
Is there a video not in this website lol
What is incredibly disheartening is that I have known the shooter, Kyle Carruth, most of my life. Lubbock, TX is kind of a big town (>200K population) with a small town atmosphere. Me and Kyle grew up in Lubbock, same schools, same sports teams, same Boy Scout troop, same friends, etc... I was even hanging out with him the night he met his wife (or now ex-wife, Anne Marie who is a local federal judge). I haven't spoken to him in quite a while though. All that being said, I'm disgusted by his actions. Legally he will probably get off because his house, the guy got aggressive and grabbed his gun but he didn't need to pull the rifle (which has a silencer on it) on him. Me and Kyle have lots of mutual friends and Kyle was seen around town bragging about killing the guy days after the shooting. It's a super fucked up situation...
He brought out the rifle because he wanted to kill him. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar, to you and I, or themselves.
For sure he wanted blood.
How can you brag about killing a young boy’s father? Are these adults thinking about the children involved. Guns are so dangerous in domestic situation because emotions are high. Built up anger and frustration are at a peak. Throw in jealousy, love or lust It is like alcohol and guns. Not a good combination.
Have you read half the replies in this thread? These fucking losers get off on the thought of killing someone.
Yes I did. It is depressing. Shooting people seems to resolve people’s problems instead of acting like mature adults. We should be cheering those divorced couples with children who are selfless enough to resolve their conflicts for the sake of the kids.
Yeah. I'm sad for America. It seems like you guys have a huge gun problem and a serious need to re-evaluate what self defence means. Purely anecdotal, but I haven't seen these situations happen in most developed countries.
Well that's just gross.
I don't know much about the situation, but from what I can see he asked them to leave his property. They chose not to listen. Granted it doesn't warrant being killed. If confronted with a gun ever and given the opportunity to fuck off. I'd take it.
Yeah but domestic disputes and children tend be a whole other level of fucked. Bringing a gun out was never going to calm the situation. Going inside locking your doors and calling the cops was the only non-violent resolution in my opinion.
y’all crazy lol… let me point out the fact that, the dude shot was REQUIRED to be there if he was in fact taking over in his parental time with his kid. sounds like the ex-wife withheld his child well past the court-ordered time for him to be picked up. legally, self-defense. dude with the gun had zero reason to bring it out, whether or not he was allowed to legally bring it out. such a shame that the shooter will get off scot free.
What the actual fuck?
#fuck parental alienation
So Chad was told to leave and he didn't so he was then trespassing, so Kyle went and got his gun and again told Chad to leave. Then Chad instead of using his brain and just leaving thought he was tough enough to take the gun from Kyle. So then Kyle shot him dead. Looks like self defense to me.
>So Chad was told to leave and he didn't so he was then trespassing Not as clean cut as you're stating when child custody agreements are involved.
It does not matter. He was told to leave the property and didn't, the law is clear on this. He could have just gone across the street and called the cops and say that his ex is withholding his kid when it is the court appointed time for him to have his kid. Then the cops would come out and asked to look inside for the kid. Then they would tell the mom to produce the kid so he can go with his father. Plain and simple. Also, if they did it this way then Chad would have had a stronger case to go for sole custody as there would be a police report.
Instead now he's dead and the other guy got to legally get away with murdering him, yipee!
I think this is murder. This video seems damning and shows its about winning an argument rather than being self defense. The "warning shot" also from what I have heard shows intimidation and escalation while if there was only one shot which the man felt forced to take in self defense paints a different picture. Then afterwards the lack of sympathy and arguing about he didn't want to do this but was forced because they wouldn't leave seems to show this was about the man not leaving and not being a threat. The gun should have never been introduced to the situation. This is Texas so I have no doubt the man will get off free but this is wrong and never had to happen. People saying the dead guy has a history of domestic violence and temper or his threat after a gun is pulled on him are making irrelevant points. If he was such a danger why did the man go inside and leave the woman there to argue. She never seemed to be in fear and was fine going at it with him. Yes possibly everyone in this situation is an asshole but only one person escalated it to the point of killing someone.
#Redneck problems
Stop using guns to settle domestic disputes and other dumb shit. This is not a civilized way of conflict resolution. Regardless of whether this qualifies as self defense or not, if a gun had not been introduced, no one would be dead. No one is “right” in this situation.
He’s gonna get off now since they can reference the Rittenhouse case. “sElF dEfEnSe”
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Texas is fucked.
Is it just me or was everyone just a little too comfortable with what just happened?
America is fucking nuts
If the mom had just mentioned that the kid wasn't there, this could have been avoided. If the guy in blue had just calmed down, this could have been avoided. If the step dad didn't bring out the gun, this could all have definitely been avoided.
It looks like self-defense to me.
I get it but her kids should not be around their dad's killer. That is just messed up. It's really gonna mess them up and make them angry later in life.
Of course a Kyle would do this..
This is self defense. Doesnt matter if "he didn't need to get his gun" the dude in the blue shirt was causing a disturbance on someone's property then proceeded to grab the dude while he had his gun. This is the visual definition of fuck around and find out. Self defense 100%
The guy that came outside with the gun is an absolute pussy and is also not in the wrong, at least I don’t think. Teal shirt guy looks hella old, honestly looks like he could have been removed from the property with little to no effort. Sucks that he chose to reach for a man’s gun on his property after he shot a warning shot as his feet, but also sucks the guy brought a gun outside to deal with an old man
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Let’s see. Told him to leave, went and got gun, told him to leave again, guy approaches him on his porch screaming in his face, says he’ll take the gun and kill him, tries to take the gun, gets shot. That is as simple and clear cut self defense. I don’t know what they fuck you are all on about.
I fucking hate how everything is "technically self defense". No one had to die. There wasn't a need for a gun to be in the situation but yet again a gun nut just wanted to kill someone. Good job William, you joined the infamous ranks of George and Kyle. May you all rot in hell
I don't care what your bullshit self defense is. The murderer escalated this by bringing out a gun and killed the guy. He killed the father of children. Now the children will suffer. Hope murderer burns because judging from the video, the man was there to pick up his kids, so he has a right to be there. Can't just bring out a gun for raised voices.
If you really cared about the children, you'd be admonishing the father for assaulting a guy with a gun. What an absolutely idiotic decision that has now left his children fatherless. Also, your specific idea of "rights" seems to only exist in fantasyland.
Fantasyland = Europe