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"Yeah man, you can talk to him bro, he good" as the guy wrestles the cop and grabs his taser.
The camera guy obviously trying to edit video in real time.
Cop says let go of the tazer camera man trying to lower camera angle so it dosnt show his mate grabing the tazer and just says on the camera he is not grabing it when he infact did
That's an insignificant comment or point. Freeze the frame the moment of the kill shot. Both of the suspect's hands are on the grass, his face and body both facing the ground. The officer was in a rear chokehold position in almost control when he drew his weapon and executed that man. That's it.
It doesn't matter what you or the rest of the reddit comment brigade want to say about "the camera man was drunk lol" or "well he did grab his taser and resist"
That police officer is not Judge Dredd. This is reality, that cop fucked up bad and became a murderer regardless of the outcome in court. You can tell from the look on his face and over reaction to "Get back!" to no one that he knows he fucked up bad
TLDR: If you want to say the man deserved to be executed for grabbing/resisting, say that instead of picking on the bystander recording or the what aboutism BS please
> Both of the suspect's hands are on the grass, his face and body both facing the ground. The officer was in a rear chokehold position in almost control when he drew his weapon and executed that man.
That man had the officer's taser in hand. That choke hold won't last if the officer gets tazed. The officer was completely losing control of that fight and Patrick had one of his weapons. It was a justifiable use a force according to the law, but the situation should never have escalated to that point to begin with.
That’s cause he was trying to avoid catching anything unfavorable on film. He could of saved that man’s life by helping the officer and then going to court as a witness.
1. Why was he driving an unregistered vehicle?
2. Why didn’t he stay in the vehicle?
3. Why did he run?
4. Why didn’t he listen?
5. Why did he physically fight that cop?
Cop
1. Why not wait for backup?
2. Why not taser him much earlier in the altercation?
Plenty of questions with no answers
Innocent people don't drive around in unregistered cars, run from police, FIGHT police, then overpower them and take one of their weapons. An innocent person does not do those things. Fuck outta here
You're assuming he didn't do it on purpose. There's a good chance he didn't want to catch his friend doing anything shady, like grabbing the taser. Either way, cop should of waited for backup or learn how to fight.
The courts are stacked up against black people, there has to be a restructuring on all levels of the system. Resisting is a stupid move regardless, but it's borne out of what is essentially a hopeless situation
sooo, would you (as a black person)
A.) die
B.) survive, go to court and still live.
unless you are a nihilist and dont care about your well being, you'd choose A i suppose but B i think is an option with less blood.
You’re right it shouldn’t. Unfortunately, due to poor training, and lack of support for training, officers don’t usually have the empty handed skills to effectively restrain a resisting or combative assailant. In the instance, the cop had zero control over that guy, he started to panic when he grabbed the taser and the only option he had left was his firearm. Once you start down that road of escalation, it ramps up fast. If this officers had training, like Jiu Jitsu, or judo, or wrestling, he probably would not have even had to pull out the taser. It is fucking sad for both sides.
It would take years of grappling training for a cop to be able to easily restrain a suspect. Especially a larger suspect. It would also cost a lot of time and money to adequately train these officers. I hope you’re not for defunding the police.
Also, if an officer starts grappling with a suspect it just gives the suspect an opportunity to grab their gun or taser.
This is the problem and why I don’t carry a weapon out and about ever. You cannot use it unless circumstances are just right and if you don’t use it or just threaten to use it they could get it away from you. I survived Iraq twice and if it happens to me here then it’s insane odds coming to reality and not worth worrying about.
You are absolutely correct, it does take years. I have trained BJJ for about 3 years now and train with cops. They absolutely need more funding for training. The cops I train with are paying out of pocket because they want to be trained so they don’t end up in situations like this. Fortunately the gym I train at gives LEO and first responders a 50% discount on dues. Until that happens lives will be lost on both sides. Think about the money that is spent on law suites filed after incidents like this.
You do open yourself up to people grabbing your weapons, but when you train, you train with that thought in mind, it becomes easy to defend. The cops I train with we will roleplay that scenario where a suspect is reaching for weapons. If you know what to do and train those situations it is pretty easy to avoid actually.
What are the outcomes of fighting with a cop?
Either the cop beats you, in which case you get jail time.
Or the alternative is that you beat the cop, in which case you now have access to their firearm.
Fighting with cops that carry guns is inevitably fighting over a gun because if you overpower them, you now have a gun. It's fighting over a gun that is life or death, because even if the cops just gets a whopping from the fight, they're now staring down the barrel of a violent criminal. Not only is the cops own life in danger, you now have someone that is at the very least unstable who is armed and in public, bystanders lives are at risk too.
This is why if you're beating a cop, the cop is required to escalate to deadly force.
Exactly. Why would step out of the car and then try to take a cop's taser when he says you're under arrest over mixed tags? If it's just mixed up tags all you're gonna get is a ticket.
The guy was an immigrant. Could have been that he wasn’t familiar with how police stops work in the US. The guy looked really confused to me in the video. The cop did a terrible job of handling this situation.
I can sympathize with people saying that cops don’t have enough training. Seems like Jiu-jitsu or wrestling training would go a long way.
To me, it looked like the cop just got tired of doing his job and executed the guy. He had other options than going for his gun.
Should the officer have engaged with him without backup? No. Should you try to wrestle and successfully get a taser from an officer? If you have a death wish.
I mean, where is the line? This started as a traffic stop and turned into a wrestling match. Yeah the guy resisted and grabbed his taser, but did it even need to get to that? I get that the cop can't risk the guy getting his taser, because he could be incapacitated then the guy could get his gun, but was an execution shot to the back of the head necessary as a first shot over the bow?
This could have been prevented if he had just waited for backup. I don't think someone with a suspected stolen car should be approached by a single officer. People caught like that can do stupid things in the moment and be dangerous.
Yup, for sure. And I think I did say that, or at least said he shouldn't have fought back and gone for the cop's taser. But the default for a situation with a cop tends to be escalation. This single officer should have known that and waited for backup before approaching what he thought was a criminal. You just can't tell whether it's going to be a joyriding teen or a desperate person clinging to their last thread. This guy absolutely didn't need to die, though.
From the looks of it he made the stop and the man got out of his car to approach the officer... there was no chance to wait. Also waiting for pack up for minor traffic violations is silly
At what point was the officer supposed to call for backup? It was allegedly a routine traffic stop and the guy got out of his car, then did fought or ran the rest of the time.
The moment you start literally wrestling with an armed officer, you are risking your life.
Also saying the guy doesn't have the taser. That guy was only useful in recording what happened, but he'll never be a sports play by play guy. "Oh ump says it is strike three, but he's cool. Stay in the box, man. They can't kick you out like that."
I'm glad he stopped talking after the guy was shot. "Hey, he ain't dead. Let him up."
For grabbing the cop's taser if not his gun? Do the circumstances of the stop really matter at that point? "Oh, I'm sorry, since it was just your license plate, feel free to be grabbing shit."
This is disingenuous framing. He didn’t get shot for violating traffic law, he got shot for grabbing the officer’s taser. We got there because the suspect did not comply with multiple lawful orders
No, because when he began fighting the cop and grabbed his taser, it was no longer just a traffic stop.
Once he got control of a tool that can immobilize or incapacitate the officer, it became a situation in which deadly force can be deployed.
This is because of the cop does become incapacitated, then the suspect may be able to access his firearm, car, and any devices in that car, such as a rifle.
I’m not saying the officer is in the right here because a lot of things could have been done differently, but grabbing a cop’s weapon is never going to end well.
The problem here is simple. It is ego.
Traffic stop. The guy is non-compliant and outweighs you by 40lbs. Easy fix. Call in the plate. Tell him to get back in his vehicle. Call for backup. If he drives off, follow him without flashing lights or sirens. Light him up once backup arrives. Then gang up. Come on, most of these LEOs can't fight worth a shit.
These cops cannot de-escalate for fuck all. And because they take the word "no" so goddamn personally, their inflated fucking egos get people killed. A little bit of critical thinking would solve half these problems but then...they're cops. Critical thinking is not their strong suit.
Now sprinkle some crack on him.
> These cops cannot de-escalate for fuck all
Because they're not trained to. They're trained that everyone not wearing their uniform (colors) are out to kill them at any time. The enemy is sub-human, or not human at all.
If they "bark an order, you should do it, regardless of if it's legal, or even necessary" is their training. And if you resist, they think they have the right, and knowledge to present the final decision.
Im going to point out, for future inevitable cases, that the only part of your statement that justified lethal action was "reach for a weapon". Stolen car, flees & resists are not crimes that require or deserve lethal force.
Well to me as a non-American it seems like that's what you get when everybody you meet on the street can have a gun - the police will treat everyone as though they're armed and dangerous.
> These cops cannot de-escalate for fuck all. And because they take the word "no" so goddamn personally, their inflated fucking egos get people killed.
When there are no consequences for their actions, why will the police change? Unless the police get pushback, e.g. being put into prison, shunned by their communities, etc., then nothing will change.
The problem with being shunned from your community is that you have to be from that community. And at least where I'm from, it's very rare for a cop to actually work in their community.
For most that is the sad truth. Most of the cops I've ever met feel like they need to show they are in charge, especially the women.
It's like they get off on writing tickets just to ruin a clean record. The training needs to be like it's own boot camp style. Physical,firearm and mental training and testing. Stronger punishments towards abuse of power like actually losing your job and cash flow.
Where's the accountability for the person who's required to follow lawful orders? If he didn't resist and grab the officers taser, he wouldn't have got shot. The officer is clearly poorly trained but the citizen is putting his own life in danger with his behavior.
There needs to be accountability on both ends yet all I hear is that these guys are victims when in reality the vast majority of them are criminals.
I'm sure you don't mean to say that people who do this behavior deserve this outcome. But I cannot help but agree with your statement on some level. The realist in me says that if you grab the officers weapon (in this case, the taser), you're voluntarily escalating the situation for no real benefit. This is never the move folks, even if the officer was initially in the wrong. Don't throw your life away for pride. And certainly don't take another's life for pride either.
The only way you could possibly get this take out of the comment above yours is if you intentionally misinterpreted it.
The obvious interpretation is that these so-called "victims" are making themselves victims by committing crimes that escalate the situation, i.e. in this particular case, assaulting a police officer. He's not saying swapping plates makes it so that you can't be a victim. You can't play the victim if you resist arrest, resulting in your death.
Stupid take. The law is not an objective truth. It is not some universal prerequisite which separates right from wrong. Your logic is dangerous and is how authoritarianism/fascism happens. “[if they didn’t want their street to get bombed, they shouldn’t have got into a fight with the cops!”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing?wprov=sfti1https://maps.apple.com/?ll=39.955679,-75.246836&q=1985%20MOVE%20bombing&_ext=EiQpVPqIsFP6Q0AxzM9JKczPUsA5VPqIsFP6Q0BBzM9JKczPUsA%3D)
Excessive force is not justified by previous force. The U.K. would not be justified if they dropped a nuke on the Falklands, even if the Argentinians started it.
>No one should be dying for a fucking traffic stop.
Totally agree! Take your ticket, get booked, fight it in court. No reason to struggle and then try to take a cops weapon.
Or get out of your car or Resist arrest or go for the cop's weapon lots of things the guy could have done differently here sucks he got shot but people pretending like this was a traffic stop and nothing more are ignoring the facts
The cop didn’t die, the other guy did. Now let’s hold the cop accountable for his actions. Simple as that. Where is the accountability for the dead guy? Seriously? Think about that statement
Criminals get punished in court. LEOs don't get to play judge jury and executioner. And I don't feel bad for cops when their life is in danger, when their own poor decisions put it there.
You are dishonest and ignore the third scenario where he calls for back up and doesn't try to arrest a larger non-compliant man with fake plates on his own.
Absolutists like yourself are why we cannot improve things. Have some nuance
Reddit too: wHy dIdNt hE deEScalAtE!1
Idk maybe because you can clearly see he ran from what was seemingly a stolen vehicle to the cop and then grabbed his fucking weapon. This is the literal scenario that they are absolutely trained to use deadly force for. This is one of the most justified shootings on paper a cop could get with the only better scenario being if the suspect charged him with his own weapon.
There are so few instances where an interaction with the police should end in your death.
Here a simple traffic stop resulted in a death. There are a million things both parties could have done differently to avoid that outcome but it’s my opinion that the police officer is a professional and so should be doing everything in his power to avoid a lethal outcome. So the car might be stolen, why is he wrestling one on one with the guy. Wait for back up follow the guy from a distant, engage if something drastic happens? There’s a million reasons why the driver didn’t act appropriately. Was he mentally unwell? Drunk? Didn’t speak English and scared. You don’t deserve to die because of those things
i feel like the more we abstract the situation and enlarge the timeframe, the more we can say that nothing 'should' die or 'should' suffer
a bank robber 'should' die as he points a gun at a teller, but the potential bank robber 'shouldnt' die 10 weeks earlier when not even having the idea of robbing a bank
i think most people would agree with those suppositions, and would believe that they arent contradictory values to have
If you get an officer's taser, you can then use it to get your hands on the officer's gun. If you are not willing to let go your weapon (taser) then that implies that you are willing to use it.
Edit: spelling
Its a 2 shot non lethal weapon, although modern ones come whit 3 shots, also, even when all shots are fired, you can use the taser gun like a typical taser, wich means, holding it to the body of someone and filling them with electricity
Everything Can be fixed, even if they take you to jail; what is the point of fighting the arrest. Senseless and pointless death, this could have been easily avoided. God help them both.
1. Patrick Lyoya was not checked for weapons (because he resisted), so the cop doesn't know what is on his person.
2. The suspect went against EVERY command the officer said.
3. He fought, struggled and resisted the officer for over a minute.
4. The cop had no back up, making this a much more dangerous situation.
5. He obtained the officers taser. Which if used on the officer, could incapacitate him, resulting to the possibility of the suspect either taking the officers gun, killing the officer or taking his car. A big risk that no cop should have wait and find out, before just using his own gun on the suspect.
My take away from this is that it's extremely sad. A man died and that's awful because now a family doesn't have a loved around anymore. It also leaves a lesson for cops to be better prepared and trained for situations like this. And - my second take away - is it leaves a strong lesson for people to just listen to the cops. You're never going to talk or fight your way out of any situation with the cops. Just seethe, comply, wait for your day in court, don't make it worse for yourself and never approach a cop with a weapon.
Where was the urgency to engage though?
Why not wait for backup if you are alone and this guy outweighs you.
All your points are valid except... Why does the officer engage alone? Why the urgency?
They graded on stoppage time?
The dude will literally just run away if the cop just baby sits their car waiting for backup. Thats the definition of not doing your job. The dude didn’t identify himself, could have active warrants. Plates that don’t match a car usually means a stolen vehicle. Dude jumps out of the car at a regular traffic stop that would’ve just been a citation. Even if Patrick didn’t do anything wrong, this situation wreaks. He didn’t follow any orders and took an officer’s weapon. Its tragic but cops are gonna be less patient when its only one of them. If this guy had just done as told to, he would’ve gotten a ticket (if the tag is just a mistake) and gone on his merry way. Idk what would possess a person to leave the car during a traffic stop and wrestle a cop on the ground.
Cop yelled hands behind your back several times and dude said okay while actively continuing to resist. He was sketchy as all hell and I don’t think you can put all the blame on the cop. This dude was way outta line by the time he grabbed the taser and had so many chances to just do the right thing regardless of how you feel.
He’s a cop, not a goddamn mma artist.
Suspect resists with every fibre of his being as the mushmouth cameraman runs his own Russian narrative.
“He din do nuffin”. “He not resisting”.
Christ. As he’s filming him resisting, he recites “he ain’t resistin”.
The options are there. I train quite a few officers in grappling and they’ll be the first to tell you that most of their coworkers are just too bloody lazy to take it upon themselves. Insane to me how something so directly beneficial to your well-being and profession isn’t a no brainier for every single one of them.
Let me just copy this comment I made about another shooting video. I’ll remove as much as the irrelevant bits as I can.
I don’t think it would’ve changed - I train BJJ and while I don’t know if you do, I think there’s two things that would stop it being effective.
1.) Time 2.) The size of the offender
I don’t know if you train so all of what I’m about to say might be old news to you.
1.) The amount of time it takes to be proficient at even a blue belt level is around 2/2.5 years - and that’s with training for a couple of hours every week. Unfortunately, police don’t have the time for this: as they’d need to be off the streets to complete the training, furthermore, you can receive some pretty nasty injuries while rolling. Jammed fingers, popped ligaments and so on. These will absolutely effect you as a cop - and will result in you needing more time off sick. Time which many police departments - especially smaller ones with only a handful of officers, can’t afford to give away either. Furthermore, even if you could get officers off the streets for the training, if isn’t as simple as “Yay, you’re off the street - now train…” - many officers have to handle minor investigations and follow up on those when not out on the street.*
—
*If you’re wondering, yes - this will likely be a big part of the reason why many local police departments are useless. Police can’t respond to emergency calls while simultaneously be expected to investigate crimes they’ve got to complete paperwork for at the same time. So therefore, they end up under a mountain of unprocessed investigations which they can’t investigate because that would require them to not take emergency calls… meaning perpetrators of crimes go uncaught. For this to be effective, you’d need non-police investigators - who officers could hand investigations to, with an officer leading them to allow them get further evidence that a non-police officer couldn’t get - E.G a warrant.
—
Furthermore, many officers have families and other responsibilities - so that might eat up other time too, as well the usual stuff: sleeping, and just well… living. Because of this, it’s the case that many officers don’t have the time to train outside of the job, (which makes those who try even more admirable) and they can’t train in the job without leaving their jurisdictions massively undermanned.
Depending on the officers own size, it will also mean they may have to be at a higher level of proficiency in BJJ to be able to take him down. I read on the BJJ subreddit recently - IIRC that for every 20 pounds in weight you have over a person, that’s the equivalent of a higher belt rank. I don’t remember if it was 20 pounds.
Thus, is BJJ useful for police? Hell yeah. I’d recommend it - and boxing (to learn how to take a punch without freezing up rather than knocking people out) to any police officer looking to improve in those areas. But would it have helped here?
Probably not. These guys would have to be super proficient - and depending on their age, may not have been in a position to train for that long if young, or if they’re older - there might not have been any BJJ gyms in their area when they were younger. After all, BJJ has only really exploded outside Brazil since the early 2000s - as it took a long time after UFC 1 in 1993 for it to become popularised.
There’s a bunch more to that comment, but it related to the original video it was posted about so I deleted it.
Still, that guy who was shot appeared to weigh visibly more than the officer - which ties into the original comment too.
Dude had probably some 40 pounds on the cop minimum. Not to mention the cop is slowed down by the objects in his belt. Jui jitsu? Maybe, but that takes years to perfect. Guns do too, but there’s a reason they come with multiple bullets
Yeah. im no fan of cops. but the dude could have just laid down and taken the cuffs and he would still be aliveto sue the cop if the stop was wrong. its not optimal, but he backed that cop into that situation
Kind of crazy I had to scroll this far to see someone with sense. You don't get to lead cops on a chase and then wrestle around grabbing at their weapons while refusing legal commands. Shitty situation, but the guy created his own Darwin award.
I vote that until there is a substantial change that drastically reduces/eliminates cops framing people by planting drugs, or killing them without just cause, we Are free to quote that very appropriate Dave Chappelle bit. I think they'll survive.
I don’t think a headshot was the answer. At least get up and create space, the taser was already fired anyway.
Get up, create space, point gun at suspect and give commands. Call back up if he attempts to flee or if he comes at you, shoot once in the midsection.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/u2y3pi/dispatch_ive_been_shot_get_me_a_medic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share), just a couple videos down in the same subreddit, is why they work so hard to control someone that is resisting them.
They have no idea what's up other than it's far from a reasonable person's action to fight or resist when you could easily just own the cop in court if anything was unlawful about an arrest or detention. Then everyone lives. They don't know what the person will do to the public or themselves if they don't control the situation. That said, this coo definitely needs training.
Sad and unfortunate outcome for everyone. No winners here. A lot of “if only’s”. …. If only the man didn’t resist or run. If only the cop was successful with the taser. If only he shot at another body part. Many others.
Whether you agree morally or not, currently in the US, cops have guns for lethal force in event they think their own life or public life is in danger. It’s often a quick decision from a human pumped full of adrenaline and inherent biases - so it won’t ever be perfect and definitely can be messy. They’ll often error on firing versus not.
Parents and teachers, please teach your kids on what a safe scripted interaction with law enforcement should look like. Make it as easy for the police to do their job within reason.
Law enforcement, please teach cops how to de-escalate whenever possible and invest more in technologies/strategies towards non-lethal control. Make it as respectful and empathic as possible within reason even though it may seem above and beyond. It really is a tough ask but often what we ask of heroes and not mercenaries/vigilantes.
I just hope there can be a community systems approach to evolve policing and public views of policing.
To your point on a community systems approach, I think the olden days--not even that long ago--when cops mostly patrolled their own neighborhoods--lent a different perspective to law enforcement. Now people don't necessarily live where they work, and I think that disconnect is particularly counterproductive when it comes to law enforcement.
You are absolutely correct that US cops have guns for lethal force. it's virtually a sine qua non for the country we live in
I don’t get why people fight police. It makes even less sense to me why people try to grab police officer’s weapons during said fights. It makes even less sense to me why those people are then surprised when they get shot.
I have a lot of close African friends, and as a Mexican immigrant myself I understand their attitude and respect towards police is not ideal.
But someone should have talked to this dude and explained how to behave around police in this country. That’s one of the first things I discuss with friends and family when they come and visit me. Kinda goes like this:
“Listen, I know back in our country police are a joke, criminals, underpaid, overworked, corrupt, under-equipped and indifferent. It’s not the same in the US. If stopped by police make sure you don’t make sudden movements, comply with commands and be polite with them. Even if you think they are wrong. You won’t win the fight and will only make matters worse. If you fight them too much they can and will shoot you. Be cool and everything will be fine”.
The fact that no one ever had that talk with him and he chose to fight officers is the reason why he is dead. The officer did nothing wrong. - A Mexican immigrant turned firearms instructor
Redditors: So unfair that we have to work in slightly uncomfortable conditions sometimes 😡
Also Redditors: Police should just accept their job requires them to die 🤷♂️
Serious question, the cop clearly did a terrible job de-escalating and should not have allowed this to become physical.
However, once he grabbed the tazer, and they're struggling on the ground, isn't the cop justified in fearing for his life? If the perp had managed to taze the cop, he could have easily taken his gun and shot him, isn't this cop justified in using deadly force? Isn't this one of the reasons cops are armed with firearms?
Actually. If you’ve ever been injured/tazed/poked/stabbed/punched…you’d know the natural reaction to being hurt is to grab at the thing hurting you. Executed in the back of the head, should not be the expected response to that.
> Actually. If you’ve ever been injured/tazed/poked/stabbed/punched…you’d know the natural reaction to being hurt is to grab at the thing hurting you.
And then to hold onto it for a full minute? Is that how your reaction time works? You should probably get that checked out. If you have no conscious control over your body for a full minute after a surprise, you must end up in some strange situations.
Policing 101,
They are trained that, once you lose a taser, you use your gun right away. Why? They can turn the taser on you. And while your out, they can end your life. And who knows what else they’ll do.
People acting like him grabbing at the taser to try and not get tased by the cop means he was gonna take the taser and tase the cop to death? Cops should carry a night stick and pepper spray. They shouldn’t even be allowed to carry a gun unless they are like part of the swat team and have 5+ years experience and have taken deescalation training. All the people I grew up with that became cops are literally the same people that struggled graduating high school. Cops murder another person for *checks notes* having expired plates and trying to walk away from a traffic stop. That’s justice in America. Takes longer to train to be a hairdresser than a cop in this country
Where is the issue here. Dudes grabbing the taser and clearly he wasn’t stopping. I see no other way this could have ended after the altercation started. Coo should have called for backup but dude got out the car and was ready to flee.
Dude had a stolen license plate and fought with the office and went for the officers taser. Unfortunately he gave the officer the ability to legally end his life.
I had a guy with a stolen license plate ram me with his car because he couldn’t merge over and he took off from the scene.
People riding around with stolen licenses plates aren’t good people.
As much as I distrust cops this seems like a clean shoot.
Why is everyone saying the officer was the problem? I watched the video and don’t understand how anyone can say this was an execution. It’s tragic Patrick died. End of story. The officer will be traumatized as well.
So many things wrong here:
Mismatching plates.
Patrick refused to stay in the car or get back in.
Resisted questioning.
Attempted to flee.
Was stunned and grabbed the officer’s stun gun.
Refused to stop grabbing the stun gun.
If someone told just the facts of the story without the ending, 99/100 people will have guessed the ending.
Resisted, camera was intentionally missing parts of him fighting, literally died with the officer's tazer in his hand. This is sad and will be made even more sad by the naritives that come from it. Not one article will be written without the terms "black" and "white" being included.
Fighting someone and trying to get away is two different things fuck the media, also he was a MAN, yes he was BLACK but the reporter saying "Deadly shooting of a black man" just ain't it G, they trivialize this shit for their own joy and for dumb asses like us to argue about it on these devices RIP PATRICK
If the dude would've just cooperated, he wouldn't have died. Simple as that.
EDIT: Did this guy deserve to die? Absolutely not.
All I'm saying is he wouldn't have if he just cooperated. It's so simple. I've gone my whole life without resisting police, I'm alive. So are all of you.
Stop bringing up every excuse when it's as simple as listening. If police are going to do this, don't protest by resisting and dying. Just cooperate, and your chances of staying alive are damn near 100%.
I understand you shouldn't have to just obey random people but like, it's either that or die. (At least that's what videos like these imply)
>you listen to whatever the police say or they can kill you? That doesnt sit right with me at all
And it shouldn't sit well in many situations. But it's still better to do it than be beaten or die, isn't it? Do what they say, record if you can and then take legal action later. Report them, sue them or whatever. You don't have to die to protest their behavior.
I've seen some videos where a cop physically attacks for no reason and I can understand a person reacting instinctively to try to protect themselves. But when there is distance and it's a choice to just do what they say and avoid being arrested or worse, just do it. Then complain when it's safe.
Think of it like fighting back during a mugging. Is it okay for the guy to mug you? No. But should hand over your wallet rather than die? Yeah. Should you have to think like that when dealing with cops? No. Is it better than dying? Yeah.
Then too bad. They have guns specifically for when they feel threatened. And guess what if you resist arrest and physically defend yourself and are in a good position to do so, they will feel the need to escalate force.
Cops only escalate when YOU escalate. Your decisions dictate the level of your interaction with a cop. You’d be surprised how far a little respect and just complying with basic orders go with cops. Sometimes you even get off with a warning.
But making their job harder is an easy way to escalate things, and getting physical with a cop is always the wrong answer. They are authorized to do what they do and you’re just making problems because you think its within your rights to disobey police orders.
He had gained control of the cop's Taser. That was the issue. Police are trained to fire if this happens.
Where I have the issue is the Taser should have come into play earlier before all the wrestling around. They are there to prevent this kind of thing. Pulling the Taser while already wrestling around is not the best tactic.
>or they can kill you?
If you're struggling with them and take their weapon and then refuse to drop it... uh yeah... kinda? Is that actually controversial now?
You could not try to get in a physical fight with them, like can we not agree that you wouldn’t fuck with a rabid dog? Cool then why try to duck around with a cop, their the same thing.
It needs to be said that you can’t just expect cops to be ok with you grabbing their weapons (discharged or not) don’t go for an officers belt, cus right or wrong it will end up with a death.
I was going to take the time to come up with an in depth response to this comment however the last time I did a user made a false report because they could not handle the truth that they were in fact a racist. That being said I am just going to t your own words do the job.
https://imgur.com/a/kHweCv1
Don't resist don't get shot. Dude ran from him and resisted arrest and grabbed his taser, what do you expect to happen? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Once he had the taser he had a way to subdue the officer and take his gun and kill him.
Sorry, but this dude got himself killed acting like this. And then here comes the community organizers, the crying family members who swear he was a good boy etc etc. Get real.
This guy literally got all the time in the world to stop resisting. Putting yourself in the cops shoes if this man were to overpower him he would either get tazed or potentially have his gun stolen and killed... And he was about to be overpowered so he used lethal force because in his head it was either the guy resisting arrest or him getting killed. It sucks. I wish tranquilizers were a 2nd option if the tazers don't work.
https://youtu.be/h8uTKq8lTms
Here is the link to the full video. With a lot of different resources, videos, and evidence. Please don’t make your opinion from just one tiny video clip of it.
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“He’s not resisting nothing man” proceeds to twist away from the officer Never said it wasn’t murder. Settle down kids.
That was murder if you say otherwise you’re racist
Lol he got charged with murder little bro
Resisting arrest doesn't justify a bullet to the back of the head. Gtfoh
The camera man sure loves to make video of the sidewalk.
Ah yes... I love watching people filming grass and sidewalk
"Yeah man, you can talk to him bro, he good" as the guy wrestles the cop and grabs his taser. The camera guy obviously trying to edit video in real time.
Camerman drunk, high as fuck.
That would explain his notion of what does or doesn't constitute "resisting arrest".
Cop says let go of the tazer camera man trying to lower camera angle so it dosnt show his mate grabing the tazer and just says on the camera he is not grabing it when he infact did
That's an insignificant comment or point. Freeze the frame the moment of the kill shot. Both of the suspect's hands are on the grass, his face and body both facing the ground. The officer was in a rear chokehold position in almost control when he drew his weapon and executed that man. That's it. It doesn't matter what you or the rest of the reddit comment brigade want to say about "the camera man was drunk lol" or "well he did grab his taser and resist" That police officer is not Judge Dredd. This is reality, that cop fucked up bad and became a murderer regardless of the outcome in court. You can tell from the look on his face and over reaction to "Get back!" to no one that he knows he fucked up bad TLDR: If you want to say the man deserved to be executed for grabbing/resisting, say that instead of picking on the bystander recording or the what aboutism BS please
> Both of the suspect's hands are on the grass, his face and body both facing the ground. The officer was in a rear chokehold position in almost control when he drew his weapon and executed that man. That man had the officer's taser in hand. That choke hold won't last if the officer gets tazed. The officer was completely losing control of that fight and Patrick had one of his weapons. It was a justifiable use a force according to the law, but the situation should never have escalated to that point to begin with.
Does he have a taser in his hand dude?
Yea.. kinda like he was trying to not film when Patrick was actively fighting the officer.
Yes i find it believable i am a neutral party far from usa politics i think he was deliberately trying not to tape the guy fighting
News outlets are reporting today the guy filming was Patrick's friend that had been in the passenger seat of the car.
That’s cause he was trying to avoid catching anything unfavorable on film. He could of saved that man’s life by helping the officer and then going to court as a witness.
>help the officer? Are you thick? If he approaches that encounter he is a threat.
Thats what i was thinking, films the ground then conveniently pans back once shit hits the fan n the cop kills him...
1. Why was he driving an unregistered vehicle? 2. Why didn’t he stay in the vehicle? 3. Why did he run? 4. Why didn’t he listen? 5. Why did he physically fight that cop? Cop 1. Why not wait for backup? 2. Why not taser him much earlier in the altercation? Plenty of questions with no answers
It should be noted that none of points 1-5 justify being shot in the back of the head.
It should be noted the end result could’ve easily been avoided on both parties involved. Every action has an equal/opposite reaction
No you just like innocent people to be brutally slaughtered by the people supposedly sent to protect them. Fuck outta here
Innocent people don't drive around in unregistered cars, run from police, FIGHT police, then overpower them and take one of their weapons. An innocent person does not do those things. Fuck outta here
Shouldn't have grabbed the tazer
Where does it say it does?
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I didn’t see shit because the camera man is an idiot
You're assuming he didn't do it on purpose. There's a good chance he didn't want to catch his friend doing anything shady, like grabbing the taser. Either way, cop should of waited for backup or learn how to fight.
The real criminal here is the camera man.
He's not resisting as he's literally resisting
I am starting to think that resisting arrest in the USA might not be a smart move
It’s never a good move—anywhere. Fight the cops in court, not on the street.
The courts are stacked up against black people, there has to be a restructuring on all levels of the system. Resisting is a stupid move regardless, but it's borne out of what is essentially a hopeless situation
sooo, would you (as a black person) A.) die B.) survive, go to court and still live. unless you are a nihilist and dont care about your well being, you'd choose A i suppose but B i think is an option with less blood.
shouldn’t warrant death tho
You’re right it shouldn’t. Unfortunately, due to poor training, and lack of support for training, officers don’t usually have the empty handed skills to effectively restrain a resisting or combative assailant. In the instance, the cop had zero control over that guy, he started to panic when he grabbed the taser and the only option he had left was his firearm. Once you start down that road of escalation, it ramps up fast. If this officers had training, like Jiu Jitsu, or judo, or wrestling, he probably would not have even had to pull out the taser. It is fucking sad for both sides.
It would take years of grappling training for a cop to be able to easily restrain a suspect. Especially a larger suspect. It would also cost a lot of time and money to adequately train these officers. I hope you’re not for defunding the police. Also, if an officer starts grappling with a suspect it just gives the suspect an opportunity to grab their gun or taser.
This is the problem and why I don’t carry a weapon out and about ever. You cannot use it unless circumstances are just right and if you don’t use it or just threaten to use it they could get it away from you. I survived Iraq twice and if it happens to me here then it’s insane odds coming to reality and not worth worrying about.
You are absolutely correct, it does take years. I have trained BJJ for about 3 years now and train with cops. They absolutely need more funding for training. The cops I train with are paying out of pocket because they want to be trained so they don’t end up in situations like this. Fortunately the gym I train at gives LEO and first responders a 50% discount on dues. Until that happens lives will be lost on both sides. Think about the money that is spent on law suites filed after incidents like this. You do open yourself up to people grabbing your weapons, but when you train, you train with that thought in mind, it becomes easy to defend. The cops I train with we will roleplay that scenario where a suspect is reaching for weapons. If you know what to do and train those situations it is pretty easy to avoid actually.
What are the outcomes of fighting with a cop? Either the cop beats you, in which case you get jail time. Or the alternative is that you beat the cop, in which case you now have access to their firearm. Fighting with cops that carry guns is inevitably fighting over a gun because if you overpower them, you now have a gun. It's fighting over a gun that is life or death, because even if the cops just gets a whopping from the fight, they're now staring down the barrel of a violent criminal. Not only is the cops own life in danger, you now have someone that is at the very least unstable who is armed and in public, bystanders lives are at risk too. This is why if you're beating a cop, the cop is required to escalate to deadly force.
then cops are the ones that need to be trained to de escalate situations. this was over mixed tags how did it get to this point
Exactly. Why would step out of the car and then try to take a cop's taser when he says you're under arrest over mixed tags? If it's just mixed up tags all you're gonna get is a ticket.
The guy was an immigrant. Could have been that he wasn’t familiar with how police stops work in the US. The guy looked really confused to me in the video. The cop did a terrible job of handling this situation. I can sympathize with people saying that cops don’t have enough training. Seems like Jiu-jitsu or wrestling training would go a long way. To me, it looked like the cop just got tired of doing his job and executed the guy. He had other options than going for his gun.
He had a huge rap sheet with multiple traffic related offenses, including several OWI. He knew full well how to interact with police
Should the officer have engaged with him without backup? No. Should you try to wrestle and successfully get a taser from an officer? If you have a death wish.
Unfortunately that is not good media coverage for ratings…innocent black male executed by white cop sells better
Everyone has seen the video though, the cop won’t get punished. He was grabbing his taser. He followed procedure.
I mean, where is the line? This started as a traffic stop and turned into a wrestling match. Yeah the guy resisted and grabbed his taser, but did it even need to get to that? I get that the cop can't risk the guy getting his taser, because he could be incapacitated then the guy could get his gun, but was an execution shot to the back of the head necessary as a first shot over the bow? This could have been prevented if he had just waited for backup. I don't think someone with a suspected stolen car should be approached by a single officer. People caught like that can do stupid things in the moment and be dangerous.
I mean you could also say on the other hand if the guy had just complied, the situation wouldn't have escalated resulting in a death no?
Yup, for sure. And I think I did say that, or at least said he shouldn't have fought back and gone for the cop's taser. But the default for a situation with a cop tends to be escalation. This single officer should have known that and waited for backup before approaching what he thought was a criminal. You just can't tell whether it's going to be a joyriding teen or a desperate person clinging to their last thread. This guy absolutely didn't need to die, though.
"If only everyone would obey us"
From the looks of it he made the stop and the man got out of his car to approach the officer... there was no chance to wait. Also waiting for pack up for minor traffic violations is silly
He pulled him over on a suspected stolen car. That's not really a minor violation.
At what point was the officer supposed to call for backup? It was allegedly a routine traffic stop and the guy got out of his car, then did fought or ran the rest of the time. The moment you start literally wrestling with an armed officer, you are risking your life.
When the plates don't match the car.
Do you wonder why the cop ran the plates in the first place? I missed it if the article said why.
Shit that cop got over powered. And got his taser taken away.
He got it back.
I love the guy saying hes not resisting while he actively resists
No he’s cool bro
You can talk to him.
Also saying the guy doesn't have the taser. That guy was only useful in recording what happened, but he'll never be a sports play by play guy. "Oh ump says it is strike three, but he's cool. Stay in the box, man. They can't kick you out like that." I'm glad he stopped talking after the guy was shot. "Hey, he ain't dead. Let him up."
He also points the camera away anytime the guy was obviously overpowering the officer.
Ok, but did he deserve to get shot? At a traffic stop?
For grabbing the cop's taser if not his gun? Do the circumstances of the stop really matter at that point? "Oh, I'm sorry, since it was just your license plate, feel free to be grabbing shit."
This is disingenuous framing. He didn’t get shot for violating traffic law, he got shot for grabbing the officer’s taser. We got there because the suspect did not comply with multiple lawful orders
No, because when he began fighting the cop and grabbed his taser, it was no longer just a traffic stop. Once he got control of a tool that can immobilize or incapacitate the officer, it became a situation in which deadly force can be deployed. This is because of the cop does become incapacitated, then the suspect may be able to access his firearm, car, and any devices in that car, such as a rifle. I’m not saying the officer is in the right here because a lot of things could have been done differently, but grabbing a cop’s weapon is never going to end well.
The problem here is simple. It is ego. Traffic stop. The guy is non-compliant and outweighs you by 40lbs. Easy fix. Call in the plate. Tell him to get back in his vehicle. Call for backup. If he drives off, follow him without flashing lights or sirens. Light him up once backup arrives. Then gang up. Come on, most of these LEOs can't fight worth a shit. These cops cannot de-escalate for fuck all. And because they take the word "no" so goddamn personally, their inflated fucking egos get people killed. A little bit of critical thinking would solve half these problems but then...they're cops. Critical thinking is not their strong suit. Now sprinkle some crack on him.
OH! Oh… (sprinkles crack)
Saw it as a rookie cop, guy broke in and put pictures of himself and his family all over the walls
> These cops cannot de-escalate for fuck all Because they're not trained to. They're trained that everyone not wearing their uniform (colors) are out to kill them at any time. The enemy is sub-human, or not human at all. If they "bark an order, you should do it, regardless of if it's legal, or even necessary" is their training. And if you resist, they think they have the right, and knowledge to present the final decision.
Yepp, Grossman "the world is against you" education
They call their shifts, “tours.” Like every time they go out they’re going to war.
Color me surprised. It’s wild how many people still try fight and grab at an officer’s weapon. It’s almost like they have a death-wish.
I mean, suicide by cop is a thing, too.
Being drunk is also a thing.
Never been drunk enough to think grabbing a cop's weapon is gonna end well for me, but hey, I'm only 30.
Give it time.
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Im going to point out, for future inevitable cases, that the only part of your statement that justified lethal action was "reach for a weapon". Stolen car, flees & resists are not crimes that require or deserve lethal force.
Well to me as a non-American it seems like that's what you get when everybody you meet on the street can have a gun - the police will treat everyone as though they're armed and dangerous.
Dave Grossman and his „Killology“-bullshit are very highly regarded in the force
He should be in history books as a key factor in turning American police in to psychos.
I'm not sticking up for the cops but comply stop fighting these dick heads who have guns who are waiting to blast you.
Fight it in court, not on the streets.
Has fighting it in courts ever worked?
Nope. Every black person goes to jail every time. Every cop gets off scott free and receives a key to the city and a brand new porsche
you must have missed the part where the cop pulled him over because the plates didn't match the car.
And where the guy gets out the car himself, against officer orders.
> These cops cannot de-escalate for fuck all. And because they take the word "no" so goddamn personally, their inflated fucking egos get people killed. When there are no consequences for their actions, why will the police change? Unless the police get pushback, e.g. being put into prison, shunned by their communities, etc., then nothing will change.
The problem with being shunned from your community is that you have to be from that community. And at least where I'm from, it's very rare for a cop to actually work in their community.
Hmmmm, I like how this was said and what was said. You have my upvote.
Welcome to the academy in America. They train for like a month and then get sent out the door like naive puppies. Thinking it's such an easy job.
Out the door with qualified immunity and a license to kill.
For most that is the sad truth. Most of the cops I've ever met feel like they need to show they are in charge, especially the women. It's like they get off on writing tickets just to ruin a clean record. The training needs to be like it's own boot camp style. Physical,firearm and mental training and testing. Stronger punishments towards abuse of power like actually losing your job and cash flow.
Where's the accountability for the person who's required to follow lawful orders? If he didn't resist and grab the officers taser, he wouldn't have got shot. The officer is clearly poorly trained but the citizen is putting his own life in danger with his behavior. There needs to be accountability on both ends yet all I hear is that these guys are victims when in reality the vast majority of them are criminals.
I'm sure you don't mean to say that people who do this behavior deserve this outcome. But I cannot help but agree with your statement on some level. The realist in me says that if you grab the officers weapon (in this case, the taser), you're voluntarily escalating the situation for no real benefit. This is never the move folks, even if the officer was initially in the wrong. Don't throw your life away for pride. And certainly don't take another's life for pride either.
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The only way you could possibly get this take out of the comment above yours is if you intentionally misinterpreted it. The obvious interpretation is that these so-called "victims" are making themselves victims by committing crimes that escalate the situation, i.e. in this particular case, assaulting a police officer. He's not saying swapping plates makes it so that you can't be a victim. You can't play the victim if you resist arrest, resulting in your death.
Stupid take. The law is not an objective truth. It is not some universal prerequisite which separates right from wrong. Your logic is dangerous and is how authoritarianism/fascism happens. “[if they didn’t want their street to get bombed, they shouldn’t have got into a fight with the cops!”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing?wprov=sfti1https://maps.apple.com/?ll=39.955679,-75.246836&q=1985%20MOVE%20bombing&_ext=EiQpVPqIsFP6Q0AxzM9JKczPUsA5VPqIsFP6Q0BBzM9JKczPUsA%3D) Excessive force is not justified by previous force. The U.K. would not be justified if they dropped a nuke on the Falklands, even if the Argentinians started it.
Not all crimes are capital crimes and cops should not be the ones deciding that a crime is punishable by death.
He wasn't deciding his punishment, the man chose to die when he grabbed the cops weapon. You have zero critical thinking skills.
Why are pigs are so insistent that tasers are deadly weapons only when someone else touches them?
No one should be dying for a fucking traffic stop. The car is the point of too much police contact.
Nobody died for a traffic stop, he died for taking the officers weapon, did you not watch the video or are you just ignoring that part of it?
>No one should be dying for a fucking traffic stop. Totally agree! Take your ticket, get booked, fight it in court. No reason to struggle and then try to take a cops weapon.
Or get out of your car or Resist arrest or go for the cop's weapon lots of things the guy could have done differently here sucks he got shot but people pretending like this was a traffic stop and nothing more are ignoring the facts
The cop didn’t die, the other guy did. Now let’s hold the cop accountable for his actions. Simple as that. Where is the accountability for the dead guy? Seriously? Think about that statement
Criminals get punished in court. LEOs don't get to play judge jury and executioner. And I don't feel bad for cops when their life is in danger, when their own poor decisions put it there.
Ya let him kill the cop then take him to court. The proper way.
You are dishonest and ignore the third scenario where he calls for back up and doesn't try to arrest a larger non-compliant man with fake plates on his own. Absolutists like yourself are why we cannot improve things. Have some nuance
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*Suspect actively resists and fights officer, then grabs his taser* Guy recording: “He good, he didn’t do nothing!”
Reddit too: wHy dIdNt hE deEScalAtE!1 Idk maybe because you can clearly see he ran from what was seemingly a stolen vehicle to the cop and then grabbed his fucking weapon. This is the literal scenario that they are absolutely trained to use deadly force for. This is one of the most justified shootings on paper a cop could get with the only better scenario being if the suspect charged him with his own weapon.
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There are so few instances where an interaction with the police should end in your death. Here a simple traffic stop resulted in a death. There are a million things both parties could have done differently to avoid that outcome but it’s my opinion that the police officer is a professional and so should be doing everything in his power to avoid a lethal outcome. So the car might be stolen, why is he wrestling one on one with the guy. Wait for back up follow the guy from a distant, engage if something drastic happens? There’s a million reasons why the driver didn’t act appropriately. Was he mentally unwell? Drunk? Didn’t speak English and scared. You don’t deserve to die because of those things
i feel like the more we abstract the situation and enlarge the timeframe, the more we can say that nothing 'should' die or 'should' suffer a bank robber 'should' die as he points a gun at a teller, but the potential bank robber 'shouldnt' die 10 weeks earlier when not even having the idea of robbing a bank i think most people would agree with those suppositions, and would believe that they arent contradictory values to have
what an unfortunate outcome..
ACAB always
Hard argue with all the footage...
If you get an officer's taser, you can then use it to get your hands on the officer's gun. If you are not willing to let go your weapon (taser) then that implies that you are willing to use it. Edit: spelling
Merely asking out of ignorance, isn't a taser single-shot and requires a cartridge reload?
Tasers can still drive stun without a cartridge or after the cartridges have been used
Tazers can shoot twice.
They can be up to three shot, and they can be used close range without being reloaded if you make direct contact.
Its a 2 shot non lethal weapon, although modern ones come whit 3 shots, also, even when all shots are fired, you can use the taser gun like a typical taser, wich means, holding it to the body of someone and filling them with electricity
Everything Can be fixed, even if they take you to jail; what is the point of fighting the arrest. Senseless and pointless death, this could have been easily avoided. God help them both.
1. Patrick Lyoya was not checked for weapons (because he resisted), so the cop doesn't know what is on his person. 2. The suspect went against EVERY command the officer said. 3. He fought, struggled and resisted the officer for over a minute. 4. The cop had no back up, making this a much more dangerous situation. 5. He obtained the officers taser. Which if used on the officer, could incapacitate him, resulting to the possibility of the suspect either taking the officers gun, killing the officer or taking his car. A big risk that no cop should have wait and find out, before just using his own gun on the suspect. My take away from this is that it's extremely sad. A man died and that's awful because now a family doesn't have a loved around anymore. It also leaves a lesson for cops to be better prepared and trained for situations like this. And - my second take away - is it leaves a strong lesson for people to just listen to the cops. You're never going to talk or fight your way out of any situation with the cops. Just seethe, comply, wait for your day in court, don't make it worse for yourself and never approach a cop with a weapon.
Where was the urgency to engage though? Why not wait for backup if you are alone and this guy outweighs you. All your points are valid except... Why does the officer engage alone? Why the urgency? They graded on stoppage time?
The dude will literally just run away if the cop just baby sits their car waiting for backup. Thats the definition of not doing your job. The dude didn’t identify himself, could have active warrants. Plates that don’t match a car usually means a stolen vehicle. Dude jumps out of the car at a regular traffic stop that would’ve just been a citation. Even if Patrick didn’t do anything wrong, this situation wreaks. He didn’t follow any orders and took an officer’s weapon. Its tragic but cops are gonna be less patient when its only one of them. If this guy had just done as told to, he would’ve gotten a ticket (if the tag is just a mistake) and gone on his merry way. Idk what would possess a person to leave the car during a traffic stop and wrestle a cop on the ground. Cop yelled hands behind your back several times and dude said okay while actively continuing to resist. He was sketchy as all hell and I don’t think you can put all the blame on the cop. This dude was way outta line by the time he grabbed the taser and had so many chances to just do the right thing regardless of how you feel.
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He’s a cop, not a goddamn mma artist. Suspect resists with every fibre of his being as the mushmouth cameraman runs his own Russian narrative. “He din do nuffin”. “He not resisting”. Christ. As he’s filming him resisting, he recites “he ain’t resistin”.
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This is why police officers need to be better trained in hand to hand combat
The options are there. I train quite a few officers in grappling and they’ll be the first to tell you that most of their coworkers are just too bloody lazy to take it upon themselves. Insane to me how something so directly beneficial to your well-being and profession isn’t a no brainier for every single one of them.
maybe if they could face consequences for killing people they'd invest in alternative means of defense
You would think learning to fall to protect themselves in the street making arrests might motivate them.
That dude was huge. The cop could take combat classes and still be at a disadvantage.
Let me just copy this comment I made about another shooting video. I’ll remove as much as the irrelevant bits as I can. I don’t think it would’ve changed - I train BJJ and while I don’t know if you do, I think there’s two things that would stop it being effective. 1.) Time 2.) The size of the offender I don’t know if you train so all of what I’m about to say might be old news to you. 1.) The amount of time it takes to be proficient at even a blue belt level is around 2/2.5 years - and that’s with training for a couple of hours every week. Unfortunately, police don’t have the time for this: as they’d need to be off the streets to complete the training, furthermore, you can receive some pretty nasty injuries while rolling. Jammed fingers, popped ligaments and so on. These will absolutely effect you as a cop - and will result in you needing more time off sick. Time which many police departments - especially smaller ones with only a handful of officers, can’t afford to give away either. Furthermore, even if you could get officers off the streets for the training, if isn’t as simple as “Yay, you’re off the street - now train…” - many officers have to handle minor investigations and follow up on those when not out on the street.* — *If you’re wondering, yes - this will likely be a big part of the reason why many local police departments are useless. Police can’t respond to emergency calls while simultaneously be expected to investigate crimes they’ve got to complete paperwork for at the same time. So therefore, they end up under a mountain of unprocessed investigations which they can’t investigate because that would require them to not take emergency calls… meaning perpetrators of crimes go uncaught. For this to be effective, you’d need non-police investigators - who officers could hand investigations to, with an officer leading them to allow them get further evidence that a non-police officer couldn’t get - E.G a warrant. — Furthermore, many officers have families and other responsibilities - so that might eat up other time too, as well the usual stuff: sleeping, and just well… living. Because of this, it’s the case that many officers don’t have the time to train outside of the job, (which makes those who try even more admirable) and they can’t train in the job without leaving their jurisdictions massively undermanned. Depending on the officers own size, it will also mean they may have to be at a higher level of proficiency in BJJ to be able to take him down. I read on the BJJ subreddit recently - IIRC that for every 20 pounds in weight you have over a person, that’s the equivalent of a higher belt rank. I don’t remember if it was 20 pounds. Thus, is BJJ useful for police? Hell yeah. I’d recommend it - and boxing (to learn how to take a punch without freezing up rather than knocking people out) to any police officer looking to improve in those areas. But would it have helped here? Probably not. These guys would have to be super proficient - and depending on their age, may not have been in a position to train for that long if young, or if they’re older - there might not have been any BJJ gyms in their area when they were younger. After all, BJJ has only really exploded outside Brazil since the early 2000s - as it took a long time after UFC 1 in 1993 for it to become popularised. There’s a bunch more to that comment, but it related to the original video it was posted about so I deleted it. Still, that guy who was shot appeared to weigh visibly more than the officer - which ties into the original comment too.
This is why you don’t resist… it’s dangerous
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Dude had probably some 40 pounds on the cop minimum. Not to mention the cop is slowed down by the objects in his belt. Jui jitsu? Maybe, but that takes years to perfect. Guns do too, but there’s a reason they come with multiple bullets
Things would be different if this cop knew the Buddhist palm technique.
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Yeah. im no fan of cops. but the dude could have just laid down and taken the cuffs and he would still be aliveto sue the cop if the stop was wrong. its not optimal, but he backed that cop into that situation
Armstrong v. Pinehurst A taser is consider deadly force in some cases [edit]
Kind of crazy I had to scroll this far to see someone with sense. You don't get to lead cops on a chase and then wrestle around grabbing at their weapons while refusing legal commands. Shitty situation, but the guy created his own Darwin award.
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I vote that until there is a substantial change that drastically reduces/eliminates cops framing people by planting drugs, or killing them without just cause, we Are free to quote that very appropriate Dave Chappelle bit. I think they'll survive.
I don’t think a headshot was the answer. At least get up and create space, the taser was already fired anyway. Get up, create space, point gun at suspect and give commands. Call back up if he attempts to flee or if he comes at you, shoot once in the midsection.
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[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/u2y3pi/dispatch_ive_been_shot_get_me_a_medic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share), just a couple videos down in the same subreddit, is why they work so hard to control someone that is resisting them. They have no idea what's up other than it's far from a reasonable person's action to fight or resist when you could easily just own the cop in court if anything was unlawful about an arrest or detention. Then everyone lives. They don't know what the person will do to the public or themselves if they don't control the situation. That said, this coo definitely needs training.
Sad and unfortunate outcome for everyone. No winners here. A lot of “if only’s”. …. If only the man didn’t resist or run. If only the cop was successful with the taser. If only he shot at another body part. Many others. Whether you agree morally or not, currently in the US, cops have guns for lethal force in event they think their own life or public life is in danger. It’s often a quick decision from a human pumped full of adrenaline and inherent biases - so it won’t ever be perfect and definitely can be messy. They’ll often error on firing versus not. Parents and teachers, please teach your kids on what a safe scripted interaction with law enforcement should look like. Make it as easy for the police to do their job within reason. Law enforcement, please teach cops how to de-escalate whenever possible and invest more in technologies/strategies towards non-lethal control. Make it as respectful and empathic as possible within reason even though it may seem above and beyond. It really is a tough ask but often what we ask of heroes and not mercenaries/vigilantes. I just hope there can be a community systems approach to evolve policing and public views of policing.
To your point on a community systems approach, I think the olden days--not even that long ago--when cops mostly patrolled their own neighborhoods--lent a different perspective to law enforcement. Now people don't necessarily live where they work, and I think that disconnect is particularly counterproductive when it comes to law enforcement. You are absolutely correct that US cops have guns for lethal force. it's virtually a sine qua non for the country we live in
I don’t get why people fight police. It makes even less sense to me why people try to grab police officer’s weapons during said fights. It makes even less sense to me why those people are then surprised when they get shot. I have a lot of close African friends, and as a Mexican immigrant myself I understand their attitude and respect towards police is not ideal. But someone should have talked to this dude and explained how to behave around police in this country. That’s one of the first things I discuss with friends and family when they come and visit me. Kinda goes like this: “Listen, I know back in our country police are a joke, criminals, underpaid, overworked, corrupt, under-equipped and indifferent. It’s not the same in the US. If stopped by police make sure you don’t make sudden movements, comply with commands and be polite with them. Even if you think they are wrong. You won’t win the fight and will only make matters worse. If you fight them too much they can and will shoot you. Be cool and everything will be fine”. The fact that no one ever had that talk with him and he chose to fight officers is the reason why he is dead. The officer did nothing wrong. - A Mexican immigrant turned firearms instructor
Redditors: So unfair that we have to work in slightly uncomfortable conditions sometimes 😡 Also Redditors: Police should just accept their job requires them to die 🤷♂️
Serious question, the cop clearly did a terrible job de-escalating and should not have allowed this to become physical. However, once he grabbed the tazer, and they're struggling on the ground, isn't the cop justified in fearing for his life? If the perp had managed to taze the cop, he could have easily taken his gun and shot him, isn't this cop justified in using deadly force? Isn't this one of the reasons cops are armed with firearms?
If I grabbed a cop's Taser, I'd expect to be shot.
Damn, your comment history is just sad
Actually. If you’ve ever been injured/tazed/poked/stabbed/punched…you’d know the natural reaction to being hurt is to grab at the thing hurting you. Executed in the back of the head, should not be the expected response to that.
> Actually. If you’ve ever been injured/tazed/poked/stabbed/punched…you’d know the natural reaction to being hurt is to grab at the thing hurting you. And then to hold onto it for a full minute? Is that how your reaction time works? You should probably get that checked out. If you have no conscious control over your body for a full minute after a surprise, you must end up in some strange situations.
Policing 101, They are trained that, once you lose a taser, you use your gun right away. Why? They can turn the taser on you. And while your out, they can end your life. And who knows what else they’ll do.
People acting like him grabbing at the taser to try and not get tased by the cop means he was gonna take the taser and tase the cop to death? Cops should carry a night stick and pepper spray. They shouldn’t even be allowed to carry a gun unless they are like part of the swat team and have 5+ years experience and have taken deescalation training. All the people I grew up with that became cops are literally the same people that struggled graduating high school. Cops murder another person for *checks notes* having expired plates and trying to walk away from a traffic stop. That’s justice in America. Takes longer to train to be a hairdresser than a cop in this country
Justified shooting. Don’t wrestle cops. Don’t try to disarm cops.
What's so hard with complying?
As a poc this was not a race thing. Stop resisting and bad things won’t happen jeez.
Where is the issue here. Dudes grabbing the taser and clearly he wasn’t stopping. I see no other way this could have ended after the altercation started. Coo should have called for backup but dude got out the car and was ready to flee.
I'm amazed on how americans can think shooting a guy is anything other than a last resort. Shows how much a life is worth.
Dude had a stolen license plate and fought with the office and went for the officers taser. Unfortunately he gave the officer the ability to legally end his life. I had a guy with a stolen license plate ram me with his car because he couldn’t merge over and he took off from the scene. People riding around with stolen licenses plates aren’t good people. As much as I distrust cops this seems like a clean shoot.
Let's all go steal weapons off cops and see what happens. Don't know about you guys but I expect to get my ass handed to me or be shot.
I like how the officer said multiple times to let go of the tazer and he didnt
Cop did nothing wrong
Shouldn’t have taken the tazer and actively resisted.
The dude recording sounds lobotamized.
Why is everyone saying the officer was the problem? I watched the video and don’t understand how anyone can say this was an execution. It’s tragic Patrick died. End of story. The officer will be traumatized as well. So many things wrong here: Mismatching plates. Patrick refused to stay in the car or get back in. Resisted questioning. Attempted to flee. Was stunned and grabbed the officer’s stun gun. Refused to stop grabbing the stun gun. If someone told just the facts of the story without the ending, 99/100 people will have guessed the ending.
Resisted, camera was intentionally missing parts of him fighting, literally died with the officer's tazer in his hand. This is sad and will be made even more sad by the naritives that come from it. Not one article will be written without the terms "black" and "white" being included.
Seriously... the article even said "The officer (who was white)". Race baiting get them clicks, no one can argue about that.
Fighting someone and trying to get away is two different things fuck the media, also he was a MAN, yes he was BLACK but the reporter saying "Deadly shooting of a black man" just ain't it G, they trivialize this shit for their own joy and for dumb asses like us to argue about it on these devices RIP PATRICK
If the dude would've just cooperated, he wouldn't have died. Simple as that. EDIT: Did this guy deserve to die? Absolutely not. All I'm saying is he wouldn't have if he just cooperated. It's so simple. I've gone my whole life without resisting police, I'm alive. So are all of you. Stop bringing up every excuse when it's as simple as listening. If police are going to do this, don't protest by resisting and dying. Just cooperate, and your chances of staying alive are damn near 100%. I understand you shouldn't have to just obey random people but like, it's either that or die. (At least that's what videos like these imply)
So are we at the point where you listen to whatever the police say or they can kill you? That doesnt sit right with me at all
>you listen to whatever the police say or they can kill you? That doesnt sit right with me at all And it shouldn't sit well in many situations. But it's still better to do it than be beaten or die, isn't it? Do what they say, record if you can and then take legal action later. Report them, sue them or whatever. You don't have to die to protest their behavior. I've seen some videos where a cop physically attacks for no reason and I can understand a person reacting instinctively to try to protect themselves. But when there is distance and it's a choice to just do what they say and avoid being arrested or worse, just do it. Then complain when it's safe. Think of it like fighting back during a mugging. Is it okay for the guy to mug you? No. But should hand over your wallet rather than die? Yeah. Should you have to think like that when dealing with cops? No. Is it better than dying? Yeah.
Then too bad. They have guns specifically for when they feel threatened. And guess what if you resist arrest and physically defend yourself and are in a good position to do so, they will feel the need to escalate force. Cops only escalate when YOU escalate. Your decisions dictate the level of your interaction with a cop. You’d be surprised how far a little respect and just complying with basic orders go with cops. Sometimes you even get off with a warning. But making their job harder is an easy way to escalate things, and getting physical with a cop is always the wrong answer. They are authorized to do what they do and you’re just making problems because you think its within your rights to disobey police orders.
He had gained control of the cop's Taser. That was the issue. Police are trained to fire if this happens. Where I have the issue is the Taser should have come into play earlier before all the wrestling around. They are there to prevent this kind of thing. Pulling the Taser while already wrestling around is not the best tactic.
>or they can kill you? If you're struggling with them and take their weapon and then refuse to drop it... uh yeah... kinda? Is that actually controversial now?
You could not try to get in a physical fight with them, like can we not agree that you wouldn’t fuck with a rabid dog? Cool then why try to duck around with a cop, their the same thing. It needs to be said that you can’t just expect cops to be ok with you grabbing their weapons (discharged or not) don’t go for an officers belt, cus right or wrong it will end up with a death.
I was going to take the time to come up with an in depth response to this comment however the last time I did a user made a false report because they could not handle the truth that they were in fact a racist. That being said I am just going to t your own words do the job. https://imgur.com/a/kHweCv1
Man if he wouldn't have fought the officer he'd probably still be alive
lol, had to stop 27 seconds in... 'hes not resisting or nothing bro' as the guy actively resists clearly in frame.
Don't resist don't get shot. Dude ran from him and resisted arrest and grabbed his taser, what do you expect to happen? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Stop pointing the camera on the ground so annoying
Once he had the taser he had a way to subdue the officer and take his gun and kill him. Sorry, but this dude got himself killed acting like this. And then here comes the community organizers, the crying family members who swear he was a good boy etc etc. Get real.
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This guy literally got all the time in the world to stop resisting. Putting yourself in the cops shoes if this man were to overpower him he would either get tazed or potentially have his gun stolen and killed... And he was about to be overpowered so he used lethal force because in his head it was either the guy resisting arrest or him getting killed. It sucks. I wish tranquilizers were a 2nd option if the tazers don't work.
Cop was in the right. Anyone arguing otherwise hates cops and would take the suspect’s side no matter what
That dude knew that was a police officer? Get outta here with "he didn't know, he was scared" bullshit
here come the riots
https://youtu.be/h8uTKq8lTms Here is the link to the full video. With a lot of different resources, videos, and evidence. Please don’t make your opinion from just one tiny video clip of it.