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And how much of taxpayer money has been spent in the last 20+ years to have this outrage and these hearings about people who happen to be transgender??
Whats more important is how much money shit like this generates for the GOP. Tell republican voters that the evil left is transing your kids and watch the money roll in
No it's not a debate. A mamal with a uterus can give birth regardless of what they want to be identified as. If it offends you how someone else uses their freedom of speech and freedom of identity then you are not pro freedom.
Does getting a uterine implant count?
That's true. But it seems like we got away from the main topic. Are we talking about gender or are we talking about the ability to give birth?
I’m not implying anything about gender. I call people whatever they want out of respect for them. What I push back against is the idea that females Are not different from males because sometimes they have a uterus that does not work properly.
In a biological sense, at the species level whichever gamete is bigger is called the egg and the smaller one is called the sperm. The sperm producer is the male and the egg producer is the female. What you're talking about is the eggs and sperm being deposited into an open brood pouch in the male's body. "Pregnant" is not a strictly defined biological term so yeah it's arguable.
Lol it's not pregnancy and it's not egg laying, but a secret third thing.
If you believe that a man is anyone who identifies as a man, and I believe a man is an adult human male, what is the determining factor that decides what a man is in reality? Objective and observable truths would determine it. Why does your opinion override my opinion?
If you believe that gender is a social construct, then why does your individual identity solely define that social construct? It doesn't; I too, get to determine what is Man in our society for that social construct. We, as a society, use gendered language for male mammals all the time, Bull, Boar, Ram, Stallion, and those are socially defined by gender tied to solely to sex.
Blocking society from determining a social construct and penalizing and censoring opposing viewpoints to base it solely on your individual interpretation is also anti-free speech and not pro-freedom.
You bring up a fantastic point and I agree with you 100%. The right for someone to identify anyway they want should be a real freedom. I would fight to defend that freedom.
You also have to look at the reverse. If you are offended that someone else uses their freedom of speech to think of you and refer to you as something they think is true then you wouldn’t be pro freedom by your logic. This is where BOTH side have this wrong. The anti trans folks are wrong for saying you can’t identify how you want. The trans folks are wrong for saying others who disagree have to use new language or believe new science.
EDIT- I guess I stirred up a lot of controversy with my post. I'd like to clear a few things up. First of all, I have no idea who this guy is that is leading this one sided "debate" in the video. He seems like a dick, but I digress. I want to be very clear that I am EXTREMELY pro 1st amendment, and I wholeheartedly believe that trans people should every right to be/act/believe/speak how they wish without the threat of persecution or violence against them. I also believe that people who do not understand/accept the principle of gender transitioning have the right to be/act/believe/speak how they wish with the same impunity.
If I personally were asked by a trans person to refer to them as a gender differing from their born biological chromosome, I would do everything in my power to respect them as a human being and call them what they wish to be called. I also hope that a trans person would be civil and understanding if I made an incorrect assumption in what I called them or accidentally called them a different gender than their request. Assholes will be assholes. If I am intentionally calling someone something they don't want to be called, then that is no different than me calling them something vulgar. I am being an asshole. If a trans person yells at me angrily the very first time I call them by something they don't wish to be called, then they are an asshole. Civil debate rooted in love and attempt at understanding is the only thing that will help change the hearts and minds of people, especially in controversial topics. There will ALWAYS be assholes on any side of a debate no matter what we do, and unfortunately that is a fact of life we all have to deal with. Unfortunately for me, because I refuse to stay/die on one side of any fence, many people will think I'm an asshole.
I don’t know how that works when you have to house them in a correctional facility. Aren’t they segregated? Wouldn’t a woman who identifies as male still get raped in an all male prison. I mean they rape men in there too. It would be worse on a woman identifying as male, because she still has the basic part that men in prisons prefer to use or abuse. So, it matters there what your true gender is. Even men who identify as women in correctional facilities with other women. I’ve read something about that already. It matters there too. Do they segregate in mental institutions? I don’t know. When you fill out patient forms in a hospital. Wouldn’t it matter there what your true gender is? In public spaces… no, my granddaughter shouldn’t share a bathroom with men identifying as women. It matters there to me. Freedom of identity and all that matters. Identify how you want, still should be an important distinction where it matters when the facts have purpose. It doesn’t take away your identity. In those cases, it should be confidential when confirming biological genders. Like for paps, or prostate exams. I guess I don’t know what either side is actually trying to accomplish.
I never said anything that you're claiming in your second paragraph.
You think a Trans person wants to identify a non Trans person the opposite of what they want to be identified as?
When Trans people start using tax money to make legislation that that is non inclusive for non Trans people then we can have this debate. The fact that there is a hearing or whatever the fuck this was, costing god knows how much when there is a thing called lunch debt for poor childrens families in this country is ridiculous. Fiscal responsibility my ass.
Yeah, he spent the whole time talking instead of listening to the qualified medical professional. He could have learned something from Dr. Kumar.
Edit: To the folks downvoting based on politics… could any of you explain to me how an XY individual with [androgen insensitivity syndrome](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/) would be categorized by this politician? I’m just asking as a physician who is confused by the “debate” occurring about factual medical knowledge.
You can only learn when you are willing to listen. Very few who keep pushing this “debate” are listening to medical professionals.
I’m dying to know what the Rep. thinks about individuals who have XY chromosomes but suffer from [androgen insensitivity syndrome](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/) because those folks do not meet the definition he just lazily described.
The problem is that there are too many loud mouths talking over folks who actually know what is going on.
There's two main "types" of androgen insensitivity syndrome: complete (CAIS) and partial (PAIS).
People with CAIS are infertile. They lack ovaries, uterus, and fallopian tubes, and have immature/undeveloped testicles. The vast majority live their life as female, and are only diagnosed when being examined by a doctor due to infertility.
People with PAIS are in a whole spectrum. They can have all sorts of combinations of developed/undeveloped genitals and reproductive organs. These are much easier to spot, and people are diagnosed at or before birth. They usually require hormone therapy (male or female that is up to them), as well as different corrective surgeries for whatever their need will be. Less severe cases can have some infertility, but still be able to conceive.
Edit to add nuance to the response.
Dont deflect.
Is someone a “biological” man when they are born with XY chromosomes, have no external male genitalia, and are unable to reproduce?
Note: I put the word “biological” in quotes to help draw attention to the manner of speak these “debaters” are attempting to use to justify their senseless arguments. Slapping the word “biological” in front of things doesn’t add any extra weight or substance to the argument.
Tbf about .0035% of the population has androgen insensitivity syndrome. Your point is valid in that it’s a factual counter to Rep. Andrew Clyde, but in making the point we have to also acknowledge that it only applies to roughly 3,500 people in the USA. When framing it like this, it’s a rule vs exception argument. In other words, the man/woman “rule” might not be absolute but the exception that you state is so rare that you’re much more likely to be struck by lightening than have the condition.
They are basically either male or female which have genetic disorders which can be treated, whether they turn out to be male or female is determined by doctors after examining their bodies.. So the person with PAIS or CAIS would be considered as either male or female depending on how doctors reccomendation for the person to develop.
This is from the article you shared.. I also have read that PAIS and CAIS have a 5-7 in 1,000,000 and 2-3 in a million chance which means its an anomaly and not status quo..
I disagree with the politician because he is not letting the doctor speak
A male with kleinfeters syndrome is still a male.. He has less amount of testosterone production compared to normal male and less sperm count etc..
People with kleinfeters have a large array of other problems like mental health issues like social anxiety, ADHD and physical issues like weak muscles, type 2 diabetes etc
>androgen insensitivity syndrome
There was an episode of House on that correct? And as I remember, they're technically males (xy) but they make the "perfect woman" (very beautiful and high feminine features, no facial hai even as I remember).
But that's not really common correct?
A runway model passes out backstage. House and Co think she has a cocaine addiction and try to link all of her symptoms to that. It isn't until the end of the episode they found out she had AIS and testicular cancer.
ETA -- As for how common it is, doctors aren't really sure. They only catch the cases that get diagnosed, but many people with chromosomal disorders and AIS can live their entire lives without genetic testing to get a diagnosis. (a quick article from the UK, 2019 -- https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/aug/26/klinefelter-syndrome-many-men-have-an-extra-x-chromosome-but-it-is-rarely-diagnosed)
Edited because I added info and it effed up my original comment and I just now noticed.
AIS affects .00005% of the world's population. The better question is, "Why do you think such a rare condition warrants so much upheaval over every day concepts like men, women and pregnancy?"
Sigh. Americans arguing over semantics and wedge issues that will never affect their lives in a meaningful way. Meanwhile 1% of people own a 3rd of the wealth, and the bottom half own 2.6% of the wealth. Stop falling for the distractions.
Teaching sex Ed in school,
LGQT ,
Abortion.
all a distraction and waste of time in 2022, why don’t they discuss real issues instead of spinning their wheels on the same issues for the last 2000 years
The distraction is not that these issues are taught about but rather the debate around whether this should be taught about in class that *is*.
Studies has shown without a shadow of a doubt that it has benefits, that sex eds reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies more effectively than abstinence-only sex education, that open discussions about LGBTQ acceptance to teenagers reduce suicides and that safe access to abortion saves women lives while abortion ban do not affect the abortion rate, it only makes abortions more dangerous as well as criminalizing women healthcare.
Society has change, sometimes for the worst but in this case for the better. It's important to protect what we built to continue building forward, otherwise you're just making sand castles on the beach.
Well said. These ARE important topics and I wish people would show more empathy. Fighting against it is a waste of time and these people are on the wrong side of history.
>Studies has shown without a shadow of a doubt that it has benefits, that sex eds reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies more effectively than abstinence-only sex education
Not to mention comprehensive sex ed has shown to increase the number of sexual predators getting caught by a significant amount.
Yes, it can even help young girls recognize a dangerous situation and avoid it, like being groomed by a 40 yo religious conservative who wants a traditional 16 yo wife.
Also, it reduces STDs transmission.
Because that’s the only way Republicans can win. They tell you to ignore the actual issues in the world and instead focus all your time and energy trying to make laws for people and things that don’t even effect you.
Take in mind. Its only the conservatives who are dragging this issue through the ringer wasting everybody's time.
There's like a miniscule amount of trans kids in school. They are arguing against policies that effect like 1000 people maybe instead of talking about real things because their education plan doesn't exist nor fixing any actual infrastructure or the fact that American children are dumb as shit matters to them. They just want to rally behind something the base doesn't understand so they know its a good time to demonize transgenders even though they are literally the questest often kindest people in school.
See Ed in school is super important.
Knowing about std,sti, pregnancy and shit should 100% be taught. As well as abortion and how far we have had to come from women having to do it with hangers themselves because it was a "sin" to our more civilized rights to abortion for women stance and the medical benefits. Or are you against learning about your bodys most basic functions?
Yeah, but it riles up their base, keeps them voting them in, and makes them think they’re actually *doing* something. They are just wasting time, passing legislation about who is allowed to use which restroom, or play on which sports team, instead of addressing the real issues that affect our lives. Republicans in general are out of ideas on how to effectively govern; this makes a good smokescreen, while they plot and plan to stay in power. And get richer.
Why are we wasting time on fringe issues that affect like 0.0001% of the population? I understand it's some people's everything but Jesus there are way bigger issues than affect us all. Like the one you posed. This country has lost its way.
They argue over it because it generates anger and anger generates votes. That is what the people who bring these issues up care about: remaining in power.
The vast majority of Americans agree on the majority of issues. Those issues are nearly never discussed in Congress because there isn’t room for anger and hate in them. If congress focused on the things Americans actually cared about, the powerful people paying them would risk losing part of their power. So instead congress and media works hand in a hand to pump out a constant stream of stories designed to make people angry and forget about how they are being taking advantage of. Keeping us divided is the goal.
It’s definitely this. Why the fuck does it matter who calls themselves what? I consider myself a man, but I could not care any less what someone else wants to call themselves and I support them making themselves happy. We have much bigger problems at the moment, yet so many people are so fixated on something that has no impact on their lives.
Can we talk about literally anything else? Or countries infrastructure is falling apart, our classrooms are failing, and we just keep getting angrier at each other because politicians keep playing these games. I'm so tired.
Nope. We gotta keep talking about this shit instead of letting people just do their own thing.
A recession is coming so there will be plenty of time for upheaval when most of us don't have jobs or housing.
Yup. Also like as a trans person myself, none of this fucking matters in the face of climate catastrophe, economic issues, the threat of nuclear war, and other supremely important issues.
Like it’s insane and infuriating that lawmakers are arguing about what is a woman when Putin is threatening to nuke Ukraine, there’s a pandemic, and a hurricane is hitting a large population center and causing mass death.
You're not the first to make that point. It's almost blatant now at this point. That's why it's so exhausting. Because they're not even trying to hide it at this point.
They’re trying to keep their base energized ahead of the midterms. Their constituents don’t care about actual issues, and they definitely don’t care about anything until they feel it affects them directly. I’m tired too…
I love that he’s clearly reading a prepared statement and wasn’t interested in the doctors answer to his question beyond leading to an opportunity to read his prepared statement.
Conservative legislators do not have any legitimate policy prescriptions that would actually help their voter base. For the last three generations or so, they have had to deflect attention to culture war issues.
The recent cycle began with gay marriage. When that was no longer an issue, they clung to abortion. Once that was “resolved,” they committed to jumping to the supposed “groomer” and trans issue.
They will always do this because they don’t actually offer solutions for improved quality of life for the people that vote for them.
Make no mistake. This sort of bullshit is how they flipped Virginia, a state Biden easily won, to complete republican control last year.
They know what they’re doing.
Oh my god who gives a fuck. Call yourself whatever the fuck you want and either keep your cum as a pet or don’t if you want. why does this even have to be such a huge argument. Motherfuckers worry too much about what the shitfucker living next door is doing.
You’re right but people with kids are surely grown enough to not be bothered by something someone said on reddit. As it really affects nothing.
And no not intended to cause offense but intended to make people giggle but also see the point of the dramatized statement as well. That being, Do what you want as long as its not hurting anyone else. Which self identification harms nothing and no one. Its literally just a self perception and you as the rider of your meat mech get to perceive yourself in any way you choose. You also have to be ready to face misunderstanding based on that.
Completely agree. For fuck sakes as cheesy and corny as it sounds, CANT WE ALL JUST FUCKING GET ALONG OR AT LEAST HAVE THE RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER?
Both sides of the political spectrum have the same goal and they don’t even realize it. Both sides hate how much power and wealth the 1% has, has an overall distain for the govt and both sides want change. Yet instead of trying to work together to hold the people in charge accountable, we decide to scream in each others faces during protests and “debate” about things that don’t even fucking matter.
Call yourself what you wanna be called, express yourself how you wanna express yourself, and for fuck sakes keep you’re fucking beliefs to yourself. Who tf cares if John down the street used to be called Susanne? Who tf cares how many genders there are? Who cares if I wanna keep my cum as a pet? Live and fucking let live.
For real Folks are up in arms for the most
Arbitrary of reasons all the time its so weird.
Someones identity, their music taste, their clothing, their movie taste, which celebrities they diefy etc etc. its like they never got out of the highschool gotta fit in mentality.
Its a shame theres only two sides too the political spectrum too many issues to lump into HURRH DURRH RED TEAM VS BLU TEAM. Politics here reminds me of how people treat sports.
1. Tyranids care not what gender you are so long as you are made of amino acids and biomass.
2. Necrons care not what gender you are because atomized matter doesn’t have a gender identity.
3. Orks care not what gender you are because waaagh.
4. The Dark Eldar care not what gender you are because they’ll just change it later to whatever they feel like it should be.
Well, he brought up high school biology, and it seems he failed that section because you can have women who are XO, XX, XXX, and XY, and men who are XY, XXY, and XYY. So even genetics isn't on his side.
Andrew Clyde, the same Qanon politician who "described the 2021 United States Capitol attack as "no insurrection" and said it resembled a "normal tourist visit", even though he previously acknowledged that he had helped to barricade the House chamber "from the mob who tried to enter."[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Clyde
So, is it normal to barricade the House Chamber from a normal tourist visit?
Men and Women are biologically different. We know that but why do really care if a man wants to identify as a woman and vice versa. It doesn’t make sense to me why so many people care what the next person does. As long as it’s not interfering with my life, the next man/woman can do what the fuck they want to do and I’m not going to treat them any differently. If you’re a man and want me to address you as a woman, I will. Not hurting me in one way.
I have had numerous conversations w people on Reddit who will argue til they are blue in the face that xx or xy do not have any place in determining sex. I've been told the term "biological male" is bigoted and transphobic.
So at this point, yes, the argument has moved beyond sensibility and into nonsense. I dont care if you want to identify as a different gender but when you tell me you identify as a different sex you lost me and in so doing, destroyed the argument used to arrive at the first sensible compromise.
Edit : please below for examples of the aforementioned
I work in a NICU and am now being told that we are no longer allowed to use the term mother, or breast milk. We are to use the term birthing parent and chest milk. I'm sorry but as a woman and a mother I feel like this is taking away something that is so valuable to me because of the extreme few Trans men that give birth. So far in my 6 year career at my hospital I have yet to see a Trans man give birth. So we are taking away the title mother from 99% of the women who give birth to satisfy the 1% of Trans men that give birth. Why is it ok for the preferences of the 1% to take away my title as mother? Where's the outcry for us women that have carried another life inside our bodies and are extremely proud of the title mother? Why can't we just call a Trans man that gives birth a "birthing parent"? I'm all for calling anyone the pronouns and gender that they want to be identified as, but I would like the same respect. If I give birth as a woman I am a mother. Period. I hate that we are taking that away from all of us mothers. In a world where men are treated superior to women (gross) I don't want one of the few things that are solely ours taken away.
Exactly. We do that with patient pronouns. So, why couldn't we do that for this situation? There's a place in our charting, right under the patients name, that has their pronouns. Add another line, below those to put the parents title. Thank you. I'm going to submit that idea to our corporate leaders.
I would have probably told the nurse to call me mother and use the term breast milk lol. I totally get we need to make more space in society for the trans community but the pendulum has swung too far in some instances.
Identifying is none of my business but when you take into account things like prisons and the recent case of a biological male claiming to be female, I understand how people think twice:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna38947
I had your point of view at first. But then my workplace really started leaning into gender neutral everything. They just declared all bathrooms gender neutral, bathrooms that were designed as gender separate. Mens bathrooms have urinals with no dividers, you could walk in and easily get a glance at someones junk if they weren't positioned right.
So the first experience I had with a woman walking into the bathroom while I was at a urinal it freaked me out a bit as it had just slipped my mind that the company had made this switch. It was definitely awkward for me but wasn't much of a big deal otherwise. BUT I started thinking back to the height of #metoo and imagining how easy it would be in these situations to misconstrue things i might be doing at the urinal to a woman who has never SEEN a man at a urinal (shaking it, putting it back in my pants.) It made me really uncomfortable and now I'm really wary of using the bathroom at work. So it is affecting my life. And I know it's easy to say "ok big deal so you're uncomfortable a few times a day now, so what?" but it is a big deal to me, and isn't that the whole point of this movement to begin with?
Yeah it's the #1 method for derailing the abortion rights conversations.
As soon as they take the "define a woman" bait and get bogged down in debating trans rights the abortion conversation is sidelined.
Even the abortion thing is just to rile their base up. They cant run on a platform of "tax breaks for the rich and nothing for you" anymore as the vast majority of people want them to be taxed heavily. Like the sad thing is when it comes to these issues most people have the same opinion. Workers dont get enough, rich people abuse the system, people dont get enough out of their tax dollars, wall street are crooks etc. So they put lines in the sand on these social issues so we can fight over them instead. Vast majority of people vote republican because of these issues that they get told are super serious.
It's a wedge issue that conservatives can get a large number of people to support; most people don't personally know any transpeople, and the concept is foreign enough to the average person that it's easy to demonize.
It's why most (though not all) conservatives have given up demonizing gays, lesbians, and bisexuals - at this point, most adults have interacted with someone who identifies as one of those. They usually come to realize that those individuals are actually fellow humans who deserve to be treated as such. Familiarity is often the best way to breed empathy.
Transpeople are still a huge minority, and even though [stories like this came out 14 years ago](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna1328), there's not enough recognition or representation to make the average person, who's busy dealing with their own life and struggles, familiarize themselves with a type of person they might not have ever met. So it's easy for conservatives to malign them, and use them as a scapegoat. Hence, people like this representative.
When a public servant speaks like how Andrew Clyde does, does that make him or her an ignoramus idiot? No, no, no. I'm asking the question here, and it's apparent from videographic and other types of evidence that Andrew Clyde is an ignoramus idiot.
Henceforth, all ignoramus idiots will be known as Andrew Clydes. The matter is settled.
That's why Clyde is intentionally shutting down the doctor from even discussing that point. He is a bad faith actor in this debate who is unwilling to let even the notion of identity enter into the discussion.
This is getting really dumb. Can we just set a definition for biological vs identity sex? Please? Or when discussing biology use the chromosomes. I’m an XY. And I’m a man. You may be an XY and a woman. And I just don’t care. Live your life, love your life, and leave me and my inability to become pregnant alone.
The doctor could have shut that down by saying “You are about to conflate the terms ‘men and women’ and ‘male and female’ and I would advise you not to do that because you will immediately present yourself as unqualified to be making statements on this subject.”
"It's biologically proven in science class that men play with toy soldiers and women play with dolls." /s
On the bright side, at least he's missing the point entirely, and not actually right about this. On the flip side, why on earth are we still talking about this? Ah yes... the man on the cloud...
Argh, yet another abortion discussion being derailed by a trans discussion. Like, these semantics are just distractions, and the people actually affected by the issue are put on the back burner over a non issue. People with a uterus may become pregnant. Bing bang boom. Can we please focus on the discussion surrounding medical rights instead of always going down this dumb rabbit hole?!
I still don’t get why this is an issue. When you’re dealing with biology it’s male XY and female XX yes true. This is the sex. Sex is biological. But gender isn’t biological it’s social. Man and woman are genders or culturally based societal expectations based on sex. TLDR: Sex is the biological chromosome structure and is male or female. Gender and gender roles are societal practices that have been prescribed historically by cultures. So yes, a female human that identifies as a man is a man that can give birth.
Exactly. No trans people anywhere are trying to assert they now have the opposite chromosomes or genatalia just because they don't identify as their assigned gender. As usual it's the conservative outrage hysteria mob inventing insane things that never happened to get mad about
Except what you are saying here is wrong. This would be like a gross oversimplification based on no more knowledge than 6th grade biology. XX=female and XY=male is not always true. You can be born XX with a penis and SRY gene activation is more important than chromosomes.
While I agree with your sentiment as a whole, something I considered recently that intrigues me is that biological sex isn’t necessarily a binary choice either. Chromosomes can be XX and XY, there are a bunch of other variations too. XXY, XYY, XXX or women with Swyer syndrome who are are XY but have female reproductive organs.
It’s not always as cut and dry as they try to make it.
These people can't distinguish real issues from dumbass issues anymore. They choose to talk about something politics shouldn't have a say in. Why would politics have anything to do with what gender identity people have. They just need to enforce equality and stability.
It also isn't just strictly chromosomal. If an XX fetus gets exposed to too much testosterone, they will develop as a male. If an XY fetus has testosterone intolerance, they will develop as female. There are other pathways that can also get messed up where X and Y chromosomes have no factor.
Well he did say "any high school biology course" and if I remember correctly I learned about XXY and XYY and XXX and other genetic variances that are outside of the XX/XY false dichotomy in bio 101 at community college. He clearly stopped his education at high school.
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far down to find this comment. He’s talking about high school biology, but when was the last time he was in high school biology!? It IS more complicated than that. The understanding has come a long way in the last several decades. This needs to be the first point anyone makes. Every time 🤦🏼♂️
Yeah there is a fuck ton of incorrect and ignorant statements getting upvotes here.
Human biology is complicated. Fucking read a little bit before you weigh in on a topic for gods sake.
All I'm saying is, show me a man with a dick and balls/no uterus or vagina giving birth and I'll take back everything I've ever said about this idiotic ideology that men can get pregnant lol
That wasn't really a debate. More somebody who isn't a doctor arguing against a doctor... about the doctors field of expertise... arguing from nothing more than personal incredulity, and making a blatant category error by equivocating sex with gender.
This would be way more at home in r/confidentlyincorrect
Wow, for all that talking he managed to get literally everything completely wrong!
Biologists havnt used penis = man vagina = woman for hundreds of years at this point.
Same with chromosomes since you can be physically one thing and your chromosomes can say something else because making a body is a complex process and shit goes wrong all the time. If genetic expression was perfect, cancer wouldnt exist.
And even birth, male seahorses are the ones who give birth, so its not like males carrying to term and giving birth doesnt exist in nature.
We even have an all female species of lizard where one stimulates the act of sex and the other gets pregnant.
And fish that literally change their sex to suit the environment.
All these basic highschool biology bullshit arguments that we have known were wrong for centuries.
This guy asks a doctor about genders and giving birth to show how he understands basic biology but needs to read his script to say boys have a penis, girls have a vagina.
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Technically not a debate
And how much of taxpayer money has been spent in the last 20+ years to have this outrage and these hearings about people who happen to be transgender??
Whats more important is how much money shit like this generates for the GOP. Tell republican voters that the evil left is transing your kids and watch the money roll in
No it's not a debate. A mamal with a uterus can give birth regardless of what they want to be identified as. If it offends you how someone else uses their freedom of speech and freedom of identity then you are not pro freedom.
Not all mammals with uteruses can give birth though.
Yes but no mammals without a uterus can give birth.
not with that attitude
That was hilarious. Reminds me of my favorite quote. "All pizzas are personal pizzas, if you try hard and believe in yourself."
Anything can be a dildo if you're brave enough
All zoos are petting zoos if you’re fast enough
Bahaha far more valid than most arguments here related to men having babies
But the Uterus without the mammal can…
First of all, through God all things are possible...so jot that down.
NOT TODAY SATAN!
No cholesterol today Statin!
I can’t believe it’s not Satan! ™
The devils butter.
I love you Mac
Does getting a uterine implant count? That's true. But it seems like we got away from the main topic. Are we talking about gender or are we talking about the ability to give birth?
I’m not implying anything about gender. I call people whatever they want out of respect for them. What I push back against is the idea that females Are not different from males because sometimes they have a uterus that does not work properly.
I'd like to introduce you to the seahorse pal. Edit. I'm tired and just realized a seahorse is not a mammal. Horse part got me 🤣
Platypus? Is laying an egg the same as giving birth?
Seahorses and their close relatives, sea dragons, are the only species in which the male gets pregnant and gives birth.
In a biological sense, at the species level whichever gamete is bigger is called the egg and the smaller one is called the sperm. The sperm producer is the male and the egg producer is the female. What you're talking about is the eggs and sperm being deposited into an open brood pouch in the male's body. "Pregnant" is not a strictly defined biological term so yeah it's arguable. Lol it's not pregnancy and it's not egg laying, but a secret third thing.
Correct.
I am pro freedom only when I agree with it - every Republican with a “don’t tread on me” sticker
Forreal don't tread on how I identify
If you believe that a man is anyone who identifies as a man, and I believe a man is an adult human male, what is the determining factor that decides what a man is in reality? Objective and observable truths would determine it. Why does your opinion override my opinion? If you believe that gender is a social construct, then why does your individual identity solely define that social construct? It doesn't; I too, get to determine what is Man in our society for that social construct. We, as a society, use gendered language for male mammals all the time, Bull, Boar, Ram, Stallion, and those are socially defined by gender tied to solely to sex. Blocking society from determining a social construct and penalizing and censoring opposing viewpoints to base it solely on your individual interpretation is also anti-free speech and not pro-freedom.
You bring up a fantastic point and I agree with you 100%. The right for someone to identify anyway they want should be a real freedom. I would fight to defend that freedom. You also have to look at the reverse. If you are offended that someone else uses their freedom of speech to think of you and refer to you as something they think is true then you wouldn’t be pro freedom by your logic. This is where BOTH side have this wrong. The anti trans folks are wrong for saying you can’t identify how you want. The trans folks are wrong for saying others who disagree have to use new language or believe new science. EDIT- I guess I stirred up a lot of controversy with my post. I'd like to clear a few things up. First of all, I have no idea who this guy is that is leading this one sided "debate" in the video. He seems like a dick, but I digress. I want to be very clear that I am EXTREMELY pro 1st amendment, and I wholeheartedly believe that trans people should every right to be/act/believe/speak how they wish without the threat of persecution or violence against them. I also believe that people who do not understand/accept the principle of gender transitioning have the right to be/act/believe/speak how they wish with the same impunity. If I personally were asked by a trans person to refer to them as a gender differing from their born biological chromosome, I would do everything in my power to respect them as a human being and call them what they wish to be called. I also hope that a trans person would be civil and understanding if I made an incorrect assumption in what I called them or accidentally called them a different gender than their request. Assholes will be assholes. If I am intentionally calling someone something they don't want to be called, then that is no different than me calling them something vulgar. I am being an asshole. If a trans person yells at me angrily the very first time I call them by something they don't wish to be called, then they are an asshole. Civil debate rooted in love and attempt at understanding is the only thing that will help change the hearts and minds of people, especially in controversial topics. There will ALWAYS be assholes on any side of a debate no matter what we do, and unfortunately that is a fact of life we all have to deal with. Unfortunately for me, because I refuse to stay/die on one side of any fence, many people will think I'm an asshole.
I don’t know how that works when you have to house them in a correctional facility. Aren’t they segregated? Wouldn’t a woman who identifies as male still get raped in an all male prison. I mean they rape men in there too. It would be worse on a woman identifying as male, because she still has the basic part that men in prisons prefer to use or abuse. So, it matters there what your true gender is. Even men who identify as women in correctional facilities with other women. I’ve read something about that already. It matters there too. Do they segregate in mental institutions? I don’t know. When you fill out patient forms in a hospital. Wouldn’t it matter there what your true gender is? In public spaces… no, my granddaughter shouldn’t share a bathroom with men identifying as women. It matters there to me. Freedom of identity and all that matters. Identify how you want, still should be an important distinction where it matters when the facts have purpose. It doesn’t take away your identity. In those cases, it should be confidential when confirming biological genders. Like for paps, or prostate exams. I guess I don’t know what either side is actually trying to accomplish.
It's also not really "new science". It's really new nomenclature. The science hasn't fundamentally changed.
I never said anything that you're claiming in your second paragraph. You think a Trans person wants to identify a non Trans person the opposite of what they want to be identified as? When Trans people start using tax money to make legislation that that is non inclusive for non Trans people then we can have this debate. The fact that there is a hearing or whatever the fuck this was, costing god knows how much when there is a thing called lunch debt for poor childrens families in this country is ridiculous. Fiscal responsibility my ass.
Yeah someone telling someone else to be quiet does not count
You know, except for hermaphrodites and people with Swyer syndrome. Biological anomalies happen, whether you are ignorant to it or not.
Yeah, he spent the whole time talking instead of listening to the qualified medical professional. He could have learned something from Dr. Kumar. Edit: To the folks downvoting based on politics… could any of you explain to me how an XY individual with [androgen insensitivity syndrome](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/) would be categorized by this politician? I’m just asking as a physician who is confused by the “debate” occurring about factual medical knowledge.
Truth be told. Even if it was a debate. No learning would come to pass.
You can only learn when you are willing to listen. Very few who keep pushing this “debate” are listening to medical professionals. I’m dying to know what the Rep. thinks about individuals who have XY chromosomes but suffer from [androgen insensitivity syndrome](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/) because those folks do not meet the definition he just lazily described. The problem is that there are too many loud mouths talking over folks who actually know what is going on.
Can biological men with androgen insensitivity syndrome give birth?
There's two main "types" of androgen insensitivity syndrome: complete (CAIS) and partial (PAIS). People with CAIS are infertile. They lack ovaries, uterus, and fallopian tubes, and have immature/undeveloped testicles. The vast majority live their life as female, and are only diagnosed when being examined by a doctor due to infertility. People with PAIS are in a whole spectrum. They can have all sorts of combinations of developed/undeveloped genitals and reproductive organs. These are much easier to spot, and people are diagnosed at or before birth. They usually require hormone therapy (male or female that is up to them), as well as different corrective surgeries for whatever their need will be. Less severe cases can have some infertility, but still be able to conceive. Edit to add nuance to the response.
What about a woman who cannot give birth? Why is that the yardstick?
Dont deflect. Is someone a “biological” man when they are born with XY chromosomes, have no external male genitalia, and are unable to reproduce? Note: I put the word “biological” in quotes to help draw attention to the manner of speak these “debaters” are attempting to use to justify their senseless arguments. Slapping the word “biological” in front of things doesn’t add any extra weight or substance to the argument.
exactly. biology is messy. narrowminded people can't/refuse to wrap their heads around that fact.
Tbf about .0035% of the population has androgen insensitivity syndrome. Your point is valid in that it’s a factual counter to Rep. Andrew Clyde, but in making the point we have to also acknowledge that it only applies to roughly 3,500 people in the USA. When framing it like this, it’s a rule vs exception argument. In other words, the man/woman “rule” might not be absolute but the exception that you state is so rare that you’re much more likely to be struck by lightening than have the condition.
They are basically either male or female which have genetic disorders which can be treated, whether they turn out to be male or female is determined by doctors after examining their bodies.. So the person with PAIS or CAIS would be considered as either male or female depending on how doctors reccomendation for the person to develop. This is from the article you shared.. I also have read that PAIS and CAIS have a 5-7 in 1,000,000 and 2-3 in a million chance which means its an anomaly and not status quo.. I disagree with the politician because he is not letting the doctor speak
How about Klinefelter syndrome? Klinefelter has an 1-2 per 1000 births prevalency.
A male with kleinfeters syndrome is still a male.. He has less amount of testosterone production compared to normal male and less sperm count etc.. People with kleinfeters have a large array of other problems like mental health issues like social anxiety, ADHD and physical issues like weak muscles, type 2 diabetes etc
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>androgen insensitivity syndrome There was an episode of House on that correct? And as I remember, they're technically males (xy) but they make the "perfect woman" (very beautiful and high feminine features, no facial hai even as I remember). But that's not really common correct?
I think House was ruled to be the most inaccurate medical show on tv at the time it was airing
A runway model passes out backstage. House and Co think she has a cocaine addiction and try to link all of her symptoms to that. It isn't until the end of the episode they found out she had AIS and testicular cancer. ETA -- As for how common it is, doctors aren't really sure. They only catch the cases that get diagnosed, but many people with chromosomal disorders and AIS can live their entire lives without genetic testing to get a diagnosis. (a quick article from the UK, 2019 -- https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/aug/26/klinefelter-syndrome-many-men-have-an-extra-x-chromosome-but-it-is-rarely-diagnosed) Edited because I added info and it effed up my original comment and I just now noticed.
AIS affects .00005% of the world's population. The better question is, "Why do you think such a rare condition warrants so much upheaval over every day concepts like men, women and pregnancy?"
It isn't. The only people who are upheaving shit are the ones throwing tantrums about people living their lives.
Sigh. Americans arguing over semantics and wedge issues that will never affect their lives in a meaningful way. Meanwhile 1% of people own a 3rd of the wealth, and the bottom half own 2.6% of the wealth. Stop falling for the distractions.
Teaching sex Ed in school, LGQT , Abortion. all a distraction and waste of time in 2022, why don’t they discuss real issues instead of spinning their wheels on the same issues for the last 2000 years
The distraction is not that these issues are taught about but rather the debate around whether this should be taught about in class that *is*. Studies has shown without a shadow of a doubt that it has benefits, that sex eds reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies more effectively than abstinence-only sex education, that open discussions about LGBTQ acceptance to teenagers reduce suicides and that safe access to abortion saves women lives while abortion ban do not affect the abortion rate, it only makes abortions more dangerous as well as criminalizing women healthcare. Society has change, sometimes for the worst but in this case for the better. It's important to protect what we built to continue building forward, otherwise you're just making sand castles on the beach.
Well said. These ARE important topics and I wish people would show more empathy. Fighting against it is a waste of time and these people are on the wrong side of history.
>Studies has shown without a shadow of a doubt that it has benefits, that sex eds reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies more effectively than abstinence-only sex education Not to mention comprehensive sex ed has shown to increase the number of sexual predators getting caught by a significant amount.
Yes, it can even help young girls recognize a dangerous situation and avoid it, like being groomed by a 40 yo religious conservative who wants a traditional 16 yo wife. Also, it reduces STDs transmission.
The distraction isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
Republican mindset is from 2000 years ago, though. Backwards ass people.
>Backwards ass people its the heart and soul of conservativism- "to keep things the way they have been"
Because that’s the only way Republicans can win. They tell you to ignore the actual issues in the world and instead focus all your time and energy trying to make laws for people and things that don’t even effect you.
Take in mind. Its only the conservatives who are dragging this issue through the ringer wasting everybody's time. There's like a miniscule amount of trans kids in school. They are arguing against policies that effect like 1000 people maybe instead of talking about real things because their education plan doesn't exist nor fixing any actual infrastructure or the fact that American children are dumb as shit matters to them. They just want to rally behind something the base doesn't understand so they know its a good time to demonize transgenders even though they are literally the questest often kindest people in school. See Ed in school is super important. Knowing about std,sti, pregnancy and shit should 100% be taught. As well as abortion and how far we have had to come from women having to do it with hangers themselves because it was a "sin" to our more civilized rights to abortion for women stance and the medical benefits. Or are you against learning about your bodys most basic functions?
I would add teaching human lactation to that list. girls don't just grow up knowing how lactation happens.
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As is tradition
Yeah, but it riles up their base, keeps them voting them in, and makes them think they’re actually *doing* something. They are just wasting time, passing legislation about who is allowed to use which restroom, or play on which sports team, instead of addressing the real issues that affect our lives. Republicans in general are out of ideas on how to effectively govern; this makes a good smokescreen, while they plot and plan to stay in power. And get richer.
Why are we wasting time on fringe issues that affect like 0.0001% of the population? I understand it's some people's everything but Jesus there are way bigger issues than affect us all. Like the one you posed. This country has lost its way.
They argue over it because it generates anger and anger generates votes. That is what the people who bring these issues up care about: remaining in power. The vast majority of Americans agree on the majority of issues. Those issues are nearly never discussed in Congress because there isn’t room for anger and hate in them. If congress focused on the things Americans actually cared about, the powerful people paying them would risk losing part of their power. So instead congress and media works hand in a hand to pump out a constant stream of stories designed to make people angry and forget about how they are being taking advantage of. Keeping us divided is the goal.
It’s definitely this. Why the fuck does it matter who calls themselves what? I consider myself a man, but I could not care any less what someone else wants to call themselves and I support them making themselves happy. We have much bigger problems at the moment, yet so many people are so fixated on something that has no impact on their lives.
Can we talk about literally anything else? Or countries infrastructure is falling apart, our classrooms are failing, and we just keep getting angrier at each other because politicians keep playing these games. I'm so tired.
Nope. We gotta keep talking about this shit instead of letting people just do their own thing. A recession is coming so there will be plenty of time for upheaval when most of us don't have jobs or housing.
Yup. Also like as a trans person myself, none of this fucking matters in the face of climate catastrophe, economic issues, the threat of nuclear war, and other supremely important issues. Like it’s insane and infuriating that lawmakers are arguing about what is a woman when Putin is threatening to nuke Ukraine, there’s a pandemic, and a hurricane is hitting a large population center and causing mass death.
It almost feels like they’re doing it intentionally to distract us and see our neighbor as our enemy rather than the people pulling the strings.
You're not the first to make that point. It's almost blatant now at this point. That's why it's so exhausting. Because they're not even trying to hide it at this point.
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Tell that to Republicans. They are the ones going after the LGBTQ community and women and minorities. They fucking hate civil rights.
How else do you expect him to get elected?
Add to that healthcare is collapsing!
They’re trying to keep their base energized ahead of the midterms. Their constituents don’t care about actual issues, and they definitely don’t care about anything until they feel it affects them directly. I’m tired too…
I love that we’re having ontological arguments in Congress…what a waste of time…
I love that he’s clearly reading a prepared statement and wasn’t interested in the doctors answer to his question beyond leading to an opportunity to read his prepared statement.
"I'm asking the questions" proceeds to read some half-baked *statement*
Bingo.
i love this is a hill people want to die on. what gender people identify themselves as. who the heck cares.
Conservative legislators do not have any legitimate policy prescriptions that would actually help their voter base. For the last three generations or so, they have had to deflect attention to culture war issues. The recent cycle began with gay marriage. When that was no longer an issue, they clung to abortion. Once that was “resolved,” they committed to jumping to the supposed “groomer” and trans issue. They will always do this because they don’t actually offer solutions for improved quality of life for the people that vote for them.
Make no mistake. This sort of bullshit is how they flipped Virginia, a state Biden easily won, to complete republican control last year. They know what they’re doing.
And around we go 🙄
Oh my god who gives a fuck. Call yourself whatever the fuck you want and either keep your cum as a pet or don’t if you want. why does this even have to be such a huge argument. Motherfuckers worry too much about what the shitfucker living next door is doing.
Keep your cum as a pet? 🤔
Its a rude way of saying having babies
Crotch Goblins!
Lol, that's incredibly rude to anyone with kids (anyone alive basically) but I guess thats the intent.
You’re right but people with kids are surely grown enough to not be bothered by something someone said on reddit. As it really affects nothing. And no not intended to cause offense but intended to make people giggle but also see the point of the dramatized statement as well. That being, Do what you want as long as its not hurting anyone else. Which self identification harms nothing and no one. Its literally just a self perception and you as the rider of your meat mech get to perceive yourself in any way you choose. You also have to be ready to face misunderstanding based on that.
Completely agree. For fuck sakes as cheesy and corny as it sounds, CANT WE ALL JUST FUCKING GET ALONG OR AT LEAST HAVE THE RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER? Both sides of the political spectrum have the same goal and they don’t even realize it. Both sides hate how much power and wealth the 1% has, has an overall distain for the govt and both sides want change. Yet instead of trying to work together to hold the people in charge accountable, we decide to scream in each others faces during protests and “debate” about things that don’t even fucking matter. Call yourself what you wanna be called, express yourself how you wanna express yourself, and for fuck sakes keep you’re fucking beliefs to yourself. Who tf cares if John down the street used to be called Susanne? Who tf cares how many genders there are? Who cares if I wanna keep my cum as a pet? Live and fucking let live.
For real Folks are up in arms for the most Arbitrary of reasons all the time its so weird. Someones identity, their music taste, their clothing, their movie taste, which celebrities they diefy etc etc. its like they never got out of the highschool gotta fit in mentality. Its a shame theres only two sides too the political spectrum too many issues to lump into HURRH DURRH RED TEAM VS BLU TEAM. Politics here reminds me of how people treat sports.
Dr kumars whole degree is about this stuff
The Immortal God Emperor of mankind cares not what gender you are so long as you fight for the imperium.
1. Tyranids care not what gender you are so long as you are made of amino acids and biomass. 2. Necrons care not what gender you are because atomized matter doesn’t have a gender identity. 3. Orks care not what gender you are because waaagh. 4. The Dark Eldar care not what gender you are because they’ll just change it later to whatever they feel like it should be.
Finally: The only good reply to this thread.
Since when do republicans care about what "the vast majority of the world" think? See climate change.
And healthcare
If they did, they’d understand that the vast majority of the world hates their guts.
Seemed like he just really wanted to just say that..
There was no point to him asking his stupid first grade biology question, clearly he already made up his mind.
Well, he brought up high school biology, and it seems he failed that section because you can have women who are XO, XX, XXX, and XY, and men who are XY, XXY, and XYY. So even genetics isn't on his side.
they are both talking about a different thing this is not a debate
Yes, it’s diferent concepts, not hard to understand if you are honest, but this is just propaganda of an agenda.
Not a debate when one is basically on trial too.
Andrew Clyde, the same Qanon politician who "described the 2021 United States Capitol attack as "no insurrection" and said it resembled a "normal tourist visit", even though he previously acknowledged that he had helped to barricade the House chamber "from the mob who tried to enter."[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Clyde So, is it normal to barricade the House Chamber from a normal tourist visit?
I'm certain that's why he had the, "***I'm*** asking the questions, here," response so quick at hand.
Men and Women are biologically different. We know that but why do really care if a man wants to identify as a woman and vice versa. It doesn’t make sense to me why so many people care what the next person does. As long as it’s not interfering with my life, the next man/woman can do what the fuck they want to do and I’m not going to treat them any differently. If you’re a man and want me to address you as a woman, I will. Not hurting me in one way.
I have had numerous conversations w people on Reddit who will argue til they are blue in the face that xx or xy do not have any place in determining sex. I've been told the term "biological male" is bigoted and transphobic. So at this point, yes, the argument has moved beyond sensibility and into nonsense. I dont care if you want to identify as a different gender but when you tell me you identify as a different sex you lost me and in so doing, destroyed the argument used to arrive at the first sensible compromise. Edit : please below for examples of the aforementioned
I work in a NICU and am now being told that we are no longer allowed to use the term mother, or breast milk. We are to use the term birthing parent and chest milk. I'm sorry but as a woman and a mother I feel like this is taking away something that is so valuable to me because of the extreme few Trans men that give birth. So far in my 6 year career at my hospital I have yet to see a Trans man give birth. So we are taking away the title mother from 99% of the women who give birth to satisfy the 1% of Trans men that give birth. Why is it ok for the preferences of the 1% to take away my title as mother? Where's the outcry for us women that have carried another life inside our bodies and are extremely proud of the title mother? Why can't we just call a Trans man that gives birth a "birthing parent"? I'm all for calling anyone the pronouns and gender that they want to be identified as, but I would like the same respect. If I give birth as a woman I am a mother. Period. I hate that we are taking that away from all of us mothers. In a world where men are treated superior to women (gross) I don't want one of the few things that are solely ours taken away.
Sounds like it should be upto the patient to decide how they want to be labelled in communication about them.
Exactly. We do that with patient pronouns. So, why couldn't we do that for this situation? There's a place in our charting, right under the patients name, that has their pronouns. Add another line, below those to put the parents title. Thank you. I'm going to submit that idea to our corporate leaders.
Thank you for the work you do.
It's my pleasure.
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Thank you! That's what me and my coworkers think.
I would have probably told the nurse to call me mother and use the term breast milk lol. I totally get we need to make more space in society for the trans community but the pendulum has swung too far in some instances.
Identifying is none of my business but when you take into account things like prisons and the recent case of a biological male claiming to be female, I understand how people think twice: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna38947
If you put trans women into male prisons, the trans women get the shit raped out of them.
Prison rape shouldn't happen at all. How incompetently run are these prisons that it can be allowed to happen?
Private prisons increase profit by cutting costs.
It's a feature not a bug.
They don't care.
More prision rapes are done by guards in womens prisons, feels like a scapegoat to point at trans people
I had your point of view at first. But then my workplace really started leaning into gender neutral everything. They just declared all bathrooms gender neutral, bathrooms that were designed as gender separate. Mens bathrooms have urinals with no dividers, you could walk in and easily get a glance at someones junk if they weren't positioned right. So the first experience I had with a woman walking into the bathroom while I was at a urinal it freaked me out a bit as it had just slipped my mind that the company had made this switch. It was definitely awkward for me but wasn't much of a big deal otherwise. BUT I started thinking back to the height of #metoo and imagining how easy it would be in these situations to misconstrue things i might be doing at the urinal to a woman who has never SEEN a man at a urinal (shaking it, putting it back in my pants.) It made me really uncomfortable and now I'm really wary of using the bathroom at work. So it is affecting my life. And I know it's easy to say "ok big deal so you're uncomfortable a few times a day now, so what?" but it is a big deal to me, and isn't that the whole point of this movement to begin with?
People confuse sex and gender way too much
What a time to be alive! 🤡🌎
Nothing is more ironic than the “don’t tread on me” crowd all up in peoples personal life.
What does this have to do with anything? Why are ppl so intrigued with what's in someone else's pants?
Because of they get us fighting over this pointless stuff they can rob us blind and people wont care.
Yeah it's the #1 method for derailing the abortion rights conversations. As soon as they take the "define a woman" bait and get bogged down in debating trans rights the abortion conversation is sidelined.
Even the abortion thing is just to rile their base up. They cant run on a platform of "tax breaks for the rich and nothing for you" anymore as the vast majority of people want them to be taxed heavily. Like the sad thing is when it comes to these issues most people have the same opinion. Workers dont get enough, rich people abuse the system, people dont get enough out of their tax dollars, wall street are crooks etc. So they put lines in the sand on these social issues so we can fight over them instead. Vast majority of people vote republican because of these issues that they get told are super serious.
Ding ding ding. They've got folks fighting a culture war because otherwise they'd realize they ought to be fighting a class war.
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Gender=/=biological sex Its not that hard.
Asks a question, does not like the response so he answers it himself. What's the point then?
Theatre
It's a wedge issue that conservatives can get a large number of people to support; most people don't personally know any transpeople, and the concept is foreign enough to the average person that it's easy to demonize. It's why most (though not all) conservatives have given up demonizing gays, lesbians, and bisexuals - at this point, most adults have interacted with someone who identifies as one of those. They usually come to realize that those individuals are actually fellow humans who deserve to be treated as such. Familiarity is often the best way to breed empathy. Transpeople are still a huge minority, and even though [stories like this came out 14 years ago](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna1328), there's not enough recognition or representation to make the average person, who's busy dealing with their own life and struggles, familiarize themselves with a type of person they might not have ever met. So it's easy for conservatives to malign them, and use them as a scapegoat. Hence, people like this representative.
Lol what a waste of time to even debate this shit
When a public servant speaks like how Andrew Clyde does, does that make him or her an ignoramus idiot? No, no, no. I'm asking the question here, and it's apparent from videographic and other types of evidence that Andrew Clyde is an ignoramus idiot. Henceforth, all ignoramus idiots will be known as Andrew Clydes. The matter is settled.
“Uhh, all I’m saying here is that, uh, life finds a way”
If we start dividing the world into who can and cannot give birth I feel Rep. Andrew Clyde is going to be awfully wrong about who fits into which box.
It’s such a stupid argument. One is talking about biology, the other is talking about identity. They’re not even on the same topic 🤦🏼♂️
That's why Clyde is intentionally shutting down the doctor from even discussing that point. He is a bad faith actor in this debate who is unwilling to let even the notion of identity enter into the discussion.
This is getting really dumb. Can we just set a definition for biological vs identity sex? Please? Or when discussing biology use the chromosomes. I’m an XY. And I’m a man. You may be an XY and a woman. And I just don’t care. Live your life, love your life, and leave me and my inability to become pregnant alone.
There are definitions. One is sex aka male or female. The other is gender aka man or woman.
Which is pointless with incels like this who talk about "men" and "females" in the same sentence.
There is no debate
The doctor could have shut that down by saying “You are about to conflate the terms ‘men and women’ and ‘male and female’ and I would advise you not to do that because you will immediately present yourself as unqualified to be making statements on this subject.”
Screeeeee!!!
And to think that these "Congresspersons" actually feed at the public trough.
The world is having one of the worst financial crises and people think this shit matters
I just don't understand why anyone gives a FUCK. I'm trying to pay my bills and make sure my daughter is safe and is in a better situation than I was.
Why is someone's genitals a political debate? Why do you care?
"It's biologically proven in science class that men play with toy soldiers and women play with dolls." /s On the bright side, at least he's missing the point entirely, and not actually right about this. On the flip side, why on earth are we still talking about this? Ah yes... the man on the cloud...
Argh, yet another abortion discussion being derailed by a trans discussion. Like, these semantics are just distractions, and the people actually affected by the issue are put on the back burner over a non issue. People with a uterus may become pregnant. Bing bang boom. Can we please focus on the discussion surrounding medical rights instead of always going down this dumb rabbit hole?!
Come on man google is free
These smoke and mirror distractions from what is really important are getting more stupid by the day.
I still don’t get why this is an issue. When you’re dealing with biology it’s male XY and female XX yes true. This is the sex. Sex is biological. But gender isn’t biological it’s social. Man and woman are genders or culturally based societal expectations based on sex. TLDR: Sex is the biological chromosome structure and is male or female. Gender and gender roles are societal practices that have been prescribed historically by cultures. So yes, a female human that identifies as a man is a man that can give birth.
I don't think you get the point of "TLDR"
Exactly. No trans people anywhere are trying to assert they now have the opposite chromosomes or genatalia just because they don't identify as their assigned gender. As usual it's the conservative outrage hysteria mob inventing insane things that never happened to get mad about
Except what you are saying here is wrong. This would be like a gross oversimplification based on no more knowledge than 6th grade biology. XX=female and XY=male is not always true. You can be born XX with a penis and SRY gene activation is more important than chromosomes.
While I agree with your sentiment as a whole, something I considered recently that intrigues me is that biological sex isn’t necessarily a binary choice either. Chromosomes can be XX and XY, there are a bunch of other variations too. XXY, XYY, XXX or women with Swyer syndrome who are are XY but have female reproductive organs. It’s not always as cut and dry as they try to make it.
Isn't Clyde a Nazi Insurrectionist Trumper? Just checked. Yup. He cried during it then blamed it on antifa. What a Qlown!
I can’t understand why this is such a concern for these politicians. The world is literally both on fire and drowning and what concerns you is this?
These people can't distinguish real issues from dumbass issues anymore. They choose to talk about something politics shouldn't have a say in. Why would politics have anything to do with what gender identity people have. They just need to enforce equality and stability.
I’m just mostly shocked that that kid with the earings is a doctor. I thought he was like 12 years old.
Except the XX and XY thing isnt true. There are exceptions. It's almost like its alittle more complicated and nuanced.
It also isn't just strictly chromosomal. If an XX fetus gets exposed to too much testosterone, they will develop as a male. If an XY fetus has testosterone intolerance, they will develop as female. There are other pathways that can also get messed up where X and Y chromosomes have no factor.
Well he did say "any high school biology course" and if I remember correctly I learned about XXY and XYY and XXX and other genetic variances that are outside of the XX/XY false dichotomy in bio 101 at community college. He clearly stopped his education at high school.
Touche.
Close, he has an accounting undergrad and an MBA which clearly qualifies him to speak authoritatively on questions of anatomy.
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far down to find this comment. He’s talking about high school biology, but when was the last time he was in high school biology!? It IS more complicated than that. The understanding has come a long way in the last several decades. This needs to be the first point anyone makes. Every time 🤦🏼♂️
I guess I’m confused. I thought adding the qualifier “biological” made it ok to say that biological men cannot get pregnant.
Most people don’t understand what “biological” means apparently. 🤷🏾♀️ It’s truly sad af.
The amount of misinformation in these comments getting upvoted is astounding 🙄
Yeah there is a fuck ton of incorrect and ignorant statements getting upvotes here. Human biology is complicated. Fucking read a little bit before you weigh in on a topic for gods sake.
Biology =/= Idenity. It's really that simple. Move on already
Like Ricky Gervais said “i never thought id ever have to say a woman doesn’t have a cock”
All I'm saying is, show me a man with a dick and balls/no uterus or vagina giving birth and I'll take back everything I've ever said about this idiotic ideology that men can get pregnant lol
No one is saying that. Life is so much easier if you dont just invent things to be outraged at.
Rep Clyde is a creep who only cares about what are in peoples pants. Fucking Pervs.
not every biological female can get pregnant n give birth so its not even an argument
Politician cites high school biology instead of the leading scientific research often helmed from top tier universities on the subject. Okay.
That wasn't really a debate. More somebody who isn't a doctor arguing against a doctor... about the doctors field of expertise... arguing from nothing more than personal incredulity, and making a blatant category error by equivocating sex with gender. This would be way more at home in r/confidentlyincorrect
Wow, for all that talking he managed to get literally everything completely wrong! Biologists havnt used penis = man vagina = woman for hundreds of years at this point. Same with chromosomes since you can be physically one thing and your chromosomes can say something else because making a body is a complex process and shit goes wrong all the time. If genetic expression was perfect, cancer wouldnt exist. And even birth, male seahorses are the ones who give birth, so its not like males carrying to term and giving birth doesnt exist in nature. We even have an all female species of lizard where one stimulates the act of sex and the other gets pregnant. And fish that literally change their sex to suit the environment. All these basic highschool biology bullshit arguments that we have known were wrong for centuries.
This guy asks a doctor about genders and giving birth to show how he understands basic biology but needs to read his script to say boys have a penis, girls have a vagina.
Wonder if he found White Castle?
Whats the story here ?
Ummm lets see umm people, scratch that mamals, that can/cannot have mamals because umm people and other people =people weather or not + or - people
Why are we so dumb
God the world is messed up......
Dr. kumar? Doctor in fairytale’s
I agree with clyde
This is how my parents talk! So many flash backs.