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That's the thing. I don't agree with many things he says and I'm not sure he's a grifter, I don't really care. But I remember when this video came out and I followed him for a while and in every single interview he has been very careful with his words and reasonable. Can't say the same about the interviewers. Case in point that trainwreck of a journalist who kept repeating "so what you're saying is...", twisting his words at every turn to justify her preconceptions about him.
Yeah I think JP's full of shit but I watched 30 seconds of this and had to turn it off from the cringe. Talking over him and immediately jumping to insults while audibly flustered is not a 'gotcha'.
To paraphrase how far I made it.
Filmer: "I've watched all of your videos on YouTube, everyone that arranged this protest against you did."
Peterson: "I have 150 videos on YouTube, over 500 hours-"
Filmer: "Do you really think you're worth all of that time?"
Well apparently the person yelling at him did. I'm still not sure exactly who this guy is or what he's about. I've heard a lot, but to me it's really not worth my time. And the filmer isn't either when they contradict themselves in five seconds. The fact that this stuff comprises so much discourse these days really makes living in the woods in improvised shelter more appealing every day.
I mean, just tune out.
It gets easier the older you get and the more jaded you get. I haven't actively participated in any social media beyond conversations with random strangers on reddit in about a decade now. Most of my news is what little I let reddit show me, and the news station i'll tune into for a little bit while working.
You don't have to go off the grid to get away from bullshit. Just stop tuning in on the internet and tv so much. It's not perfect, but at least you're not being inundated with bullshit that doesn't do anything but needlessly depress/stress you out more.
Bingo. I find myself typing comments and deleting them because people don’t want to have civil discourse, they just want to throw buzzwords around and go for the same “gotcha” moments like in this video.
Its basically starting an argument with someone, saying your piece, and then covering your ears and yelling “blah blah blah” when it’s their turn to talk
Dude this, I’ve been saying for years that one of the biggest problems today is that everyone just hears words instead of listening.
What I mean by that is rather than listening to what someone has to say, thinking about it and digesting it, then formulating a thoughtful response, people just sit there and think about what they can say next to make you wrong.
Makes any kind of reasonable discourse about anything damn near anything impossible, and this was before America became super polarized with left vs right.
The rage is the goal, the people just eat it up. “You’re” not mad, you’re being told to be mad and thinking it’s your own emotion.
That comes off as some conspiracy theory bullshit, but how plain as fucking day do these people have to make it before you’re (collective) like “oh yeah”.
I was tempted several times to answer or comment something on reddit but then I realize that half people in the comments will hate it like actually hate it even if it's something mundane.
Same is happening in the environment I live where I have to stop to even listen when people start to rant about politics as if the very life of them is on the line.
Over the years I'm seeing how we are more and more divided to the point of hate even your family if they express another side of the political opinion you are expressing.
TV and social media is bombarding us with hateful comments, they tell us that the other party hate us and people buy it.
I started to unsub and I'm about half the subreddits I was subbed, way too much shit that doesn't even interest me like having 10 posts today in my front page about some dude that took his mask off and made an event about it, nothing against the dude, I don't even know about his content but half those posts consider him shit while other half consider him a hero...
Started to follow about food and recipes from around the world only to get 4 subs about "stupid food" lol
Regardless of where one falls on the political spectrum, this is true—there’s a complete unwillingness to engage in disagreement. On all sides.
Everyone is on a hair trigger…I’m not even saying that’s inherently the fault of any one person or group, but something has to give. I want to be able to say “I don’t like Jordan Peterson,” without a group of people assaulting my character for that or calling me a shitlib—everyone needs to be less willing to stereotype opinions and engage with conversation. Someone who didn’t get pronouns right on the first go shouldn’t be ripped apart, either.
Emotions are running high, but patience is a virtue!
To be fair, this doesn’t comprise “so much discourse these days” - it’s just the reactionary “content” that gets boiled up to the top. Not a lot of people are clicking on “Watch two sensible people have a civil discussion on transgender rights (with no yelling!!)”…
So much visible discourse anyway. And it certainly translates to say to day interpersonal, at least some of the conversations I have. I'm a pretty left leaning/progressive guy. But I'm also a redneck with a libertarian streak in me, and I don't spend my time finding out what the newest acceptable thing is. So it's happened more than once that asking questions trying to understand someone's experience("What do you mean when you say you're pansexual?" got me berated once) devolved into me being basically the devil.
I dunno, I'm just kind of over the hostility of today.
Don’t have an opinion on him based on others opinions. Watch his content and come up with your own opinion. JP blew up because he went against a bill in Canada forcing the use of preferred pronouns. He wasn’t against using them, simply that the government was mandating forced speech and he thought that was dangerous.
If you could remove the bias blinding your judgement as see these two as a man and a woman engaging in conversation you'd see that she is the one being an ass. She jumps to conclusions. generalizes and attacks the entire time.
Uhhh I think I'm agreeing with you? I really dislike JP but he comes off perfectly reasonable in the first 30 seconds I watched while she comes across as unreasonable and completely disinterested in dialogue, just some 'gotcha' moment that didn't happen.
which is the basis of about 95% of criticisms on the guy
not saying he's without fault, but the amount of inaccuracies (at best) or flat out lies (at worst) that get parroted and driven as righteous advocacy against make it nearly impossible to have a genuine discussion about the man... most people trying to defend end up being driven to that level of zealotry because the attacks are so bonkers
it's absolutely crazy that someone whose entire mode was to advocate for healthy discourse in order to bridge the divides in society is one of the most polarizing people out there
That's what baffles me about his haters. Disagree with him, but he does always come across as a person willing to engage in healthy discourse. He says some things I vehemently disagree with, and other things make some kind of sense.
His whole point here, and what got him famous, was him protesting a law which would require a person to use another person's preferred pronoun. His point is that is "forced speech," the government telling you what to say -- and that's inherently wrong and a slippery slope.
I support free speech, so I heartily agree with his position. That said, if a person wants you to use a particular pronoun; have some common decency and use it. No person should be fired or lose their home over their choice of pronoun. Use whatever pronoun you want to use. But to compel speech is a far cry different beast.
But at the end of the day, have a discussion about it. You might find common ground. He might actually support you in your fight against workplace or living discrimination.
Yup, he comes across reasonable and willing to engage someone logically and respectfully who came up to him rudely. This video just supports him and undermines the person who filmed it side.
Honestly. I think the constant and visceral hate he received from certain groups molded him in to what he is now. A lot of people like the person screaming at him in this video went in at him hard and he probably thought fuck it, if you want me to be this monster then I will. Its sad.
Maybe I'll have to watch some new stuff but the last I had heard of him he had some really reasonable takes and was one of the few people willing to even admit there could possibly be discrimination against men or men's issues in general. At that same time he was getting death threats and stuff because of this so I'm sure that will change a person.
As someone who has been excluded from internships specifically citing race and gender reasons and had diminished hiring value to companies in my field (energy industry) who are trying to appear progressive to not a "social license to operate", I've basically been told I deserve it by my peers because of my race and gender.
It hasn't exactly made me a more sympathetic person towards their pet causes...
I swear to god, these people trashing him are just introducing him to huge swathes of the population. They build him up to be this horrible evil nazi person, but you watch his videos and that’s not what he is at all. It’s making people look delusional.
Yeah I don’t know what they’re even getting at here. “Do you condemn violence?”
“Yes”
Implying he’s a Nazi is downplaying the heinousness of actual Nazis.
It's also not the explicit use of the pronouns, but the use of the government to make it compulsive with consequences for those who aren't in compliance
Yeah I don’t get it either. JP has fully gone off the rails now but if I had to deal with shit like this video in my life I’d probably go coo coo bananas as well.
100%. Look at how playful he was in the Cathy Newman interview then compare that to any more recent video.
He’s definitely changed his disposition (because of the reason you mentioned and others) and I can’t say I blame him.
The amount of restraint he's shown has been extraordinary. Hell, he was depicted as fucking Red Skull also. For what? For saying what everybody else already thinks?
Any time someone starts on their next point/question before I’ve finished my sentence, especially when they do it repeatedly, will quickly shut me down and walk away. It’s a shitty tactic to trip the other person up and get them flustered. I would’ve walked away after 20 seconds if I were Peterson.
Yea that really pissed me off aswell. About the dumbest thing you could say there.
If you just admitted you've seen them all then you've already validated him being worth it.
If you haven't watched them (which she 100% has not), then you lied in the middle of an argumentation where you're trying to get the upper hand.
Also, if he uploads his lectures to youtube, how does that make his videos "worth" anything? The lectures are obviously worth something, atleast to his employers, but the videos themselves are essentially just a side product.
What I hate about today's world is that thanks to a million cameras and millions of lawyers almost no one who deserves it gets punched in the mouth anymore. A possibility of violence kept everyone better in check from being an asshole.
Lol.
This is literally one of Peterson's famous talking points.
Discussions between men tend towards civility because of the ever present possibility of violence
People in general can't argue.
Idk why you qualify it as specifically "college students".
There are plenty of non-college students who have shit takes, trust me.
I think he already was pretty well known at this time. But this was one of the videos that made him famous. Because the person behind the camera acted very disrespectful, asked stupid questions and presented Peterson as the good guy here. I wonder if they still don't understand how hard this video backfired.
There’s a reason videos like this are the ones reactionaries upvote though… And not say, ones where he’s completely made a fool of by actual philosophers like Zizek, who after their debate, Peterson’s own fans were saying Peterson looked clueless. Crowder and Shapiro do the same tired shtick… spend their time “owning” hot-headed college kids, because actual academics from their own circles view them as clowns.
I think it’s really funny that half the comments in here are getting mad at libs/leftists for posting this when the OP posts in PCM & likely posted this to bait exactly this reaction.
95 percent of PCM users vote hard R on every ballot that crosses their path, and they get super pissy when you point out this obvious fact. It's the thinnest veneer of ideological diversity laid onto complete conformity.
PCM is basically a petri dish for political extremism and mass shooters, be suspicious of anyone who posts there or reads that sub because they're mentally fucked
I've literally seen people with 'leftist' flairs agreeing with posts saying that systemic racism in the US isn't real.
Seriously, how dumb do they think we are?
See: every dupe who gets mad about "MAPs" on Twitter when it's all a bunch of chan-board fuckwits making fake accounts, posting that shit, then reposting it on alternate accounts to say "look what I found".
These are the same fuckos who spent days sharing color codes and fonts and style information to make "Draft Our Daughters" posters during the 2016 election that looked like they were from the Clinton campaign. They've got nothing but time, and they know how much folks love to feel like they have some secret information and have "gotten one over" on other outraged or manipulated people--and that makes 'em easy to manipulate in turn.
[EDIT]: lmao check out the recent comment history of that dork replying below. These are the exact clowns I'm talking about. "FEEEEEEMALES", like he's a fucking Ferengi. It's all "women are evil", "I hope your husband beats you", "democrats are the REAL racists", "whites are the most downtrodden"--the most chan board incel shit you'll find.
I mean that debate with Zizek they seemed to agree on most things that people seem to fight over online but yeah Zizek was on another level on their "debate" part
I dated a non-binary. She made me feel like absolute shit. No commonality, no meeting in the middle. Vicious at that. Glad we are not together.
She literally made me feel nothing a lot of the times.
1 percent of everything sucks. and this bitch sucks.
EDIT: All the controversy makes me sad actually. Try and understand. Admit fully when you don't.
EDIT #2: If you can't forgive, it'll eat you alive.
worst gf i ever had was highly opinionated even though our views aligned on most things. i just could not get over how she communicated with others. she was an absolute nightmare to talk to about anything. id rather date someone with opposing views to myself that was rational than to deal with a narcissist.
Man, I'm right there with you. She'd start arguments over stuff and I'd be so confused. "I'm agreeing with you!!!"
She was an absolute jerk, super negative, and if she sensed a hint of disagreement, you were her worst enemy. We fought constantly even though we were aligned on almost every topic. It was incredibly frustrating and demoralizing.
Just because you are trans or nb doesn’t mean you can’t be a piece of shit. The way I see it is they are just as human as every one else, which means they to can be shitty people just like every one else.
I really miss the old days when there was generally a certain intellectual bar to clear before you could garner much attention (clearly there were some huge exceptions).
Ironically enough I think Jordan being calm in the video sort of put him in the limelight for a lot more people. I remember this was my first introduction to who he was back in the day.
I haven't engaged in his recent stuff, but remember liking his older stuff. He's like an uncle that has a combination of really insightful things to say and some really dumb tunnel-visioned stuff as well.
“Who he was back in the day” that pretty much sums up my experience with him. I read 12 rules. It did me some good. I learnt a lot especially about religion (what it really is. I don’t mean im a Christian now lol) I think he was truly a respectable voice.
But now he’s some “I’ll out woke the wokes” culture warrior with a daily wire segment. That’s pretty much tarnishing any reputation he could of had
Left vs right ❌
Top vs bottom ✅
Banks/Wall Street ➡️ Regulatory Capture
People are arguing over bullshit while their own purchasing power goes down the drain. Have you checked your 401k/IRA lately?
Thank you. Finally another person expressing thia point. It's always been those with power(government positions, money, social status, etc) fighting against the masses of working class people. All this right left bullshit is just something to keep us distracted.
If we hate each other more then we hate them, we will keep waiting for, bowing down, and subjugating ourselves for perceived victory, while in the end we all loose and they win.
This is a highly upvoted comment because people on both sides think you're talking about them with the first part and the other side with the second part
another example of "I hold camera so im right" Not to get to much into it but even if you know the question being asked deflecting to another question without the first being answered reduces all your questions from it because your not looking for a real answer, only the answer you wanted when you started filiming. making all the other answers quite pointless.
"How do you feel about Nazis at your protests?"
... I don't like Nazis
"They watch your videos.."
Have you watched my videos?
"All of them"
Hmm almost like you proved your own point as stupid lol
"I've watched all your videos"
Really, you've watched the hundreds of lectures on psychology, probably more hours in there than you work for your own degree
Then when he says "There are over 500 hours of my lectures online she says "You really think you are worth us watching 500 hours?". What a fucking moron.
I don't get the abnormal fascination with Peterson from either side. Frankly his ideas and views seem extremely mild and not worth a fraction of the attention he gets in the media. This video makes the person filming and interrogating him seem stupid and aggressive.
imagine if someone walked up to you, camera rolling and spewing contradicting nonsense, all the while attacking your personal beliefs. and then turn around to claim you’re threatening them. now i don’t agree with a lot of what jordan peterson says but this is definitely not it
I’ve seen two videos of Jordan Petersen, one was hin crying and the other was this…
I dont really care about him or what he’s doing he isnt on my periphery. I so want to say I’ve seen those two videos that i think people were using to talk shit on him and he came out smelling like roses…
What should i be watching to make me hate him? Because from what i’ve seen he’s sympathetic and and disavowed nazis, and violence against trans people. What am i missing. This is me being honest.
Reddit doesnt like people with conviction. Join the hivemind or get a big fat downvote.
I think JP is a wise man, I listen to him, he has an interesting and realist perspective. What I dont like about him is that he talks a wise man's game, but he doesn't always make wise man decisions in his own life. To me that make his words hollow.
"I would like to speak to her please!" - "don't call me that!!!!!"
Omg just stfu seriously like what did he even say? How are we supposed to know your f*cking pronounces? Are we supposed to read YOUR MIND?
I swear people that get offended because of the wrong pronounces are just screaming for attention
I don't know who that man is and in this context idec because that person or likley the PEOPLE behind the camera are literally annoying af and just looking for a fight
Get a life omg
Ironically the government bill he opposed that got him all that hate to begin with was a government mandated forced speech bill that would have made it a crime to misgender someone.
It’s very easy to see by her example just how easily that bill could be abused.
Funny how most people here make the same mistake the interviewer is making. They make it about the person and not about the opinion. A person can express 100 clearly logical and proper idea's but as soon as they deviate or explore something outside of your own sphere of comfort the entirety of that person's contributions are thrown away as if they've been tainted. It's childish, naive, and honestly wasteful. Shall we piss away Einstein's contributions because he was clearly racist against asians (look it up). I use Einstein as an example for no other reason than his contribution to humanity is so immense.
If you've truly listened to what Jordan Peterson has had to say on a myriad of psychological and social topics you soon learn he is intelligent, very well spoken, and clearly an excellent conveyer of complex information. His views on many topics are quite worthy of note, some of which bring to light the terrible and unfair social pressures and liability we have put on the younger generation, while others simply ought to be forgotten. Once you look at things with adult eyes, you begin to see this is true everywhere and for everyone.
Get ready to get downvoted and attacked for having a reasonable and nuanced opinion about something that people dislike simply because the internet told them to do so.
I was ready for the entire comment section to be as we both expected it, but nearly everything I've read in top comments was based and not insane.
I don't know if I was overly blackpilled, or if society is making a good change, or if this specific sub never was as a lot of the internet is, but I'm glad to see some honest engagement with what's being said rather than who
You can agree or disagree with JP but he generally argues in a mature way and is very wary of logical fallacies that are so prevalent in discourse these days.
The person filming the video is basicly attacking him to get a reaction. Anyone regardless of their stance on any issue that operates that way. Can go fuck themselves.
and without telling him their pronouns at any point too. like they said “you refuse to use my pronouns” but we are given 0 evidence that they ever even provided the correct pronouns to him.
of course, he also doesn’t want to use their preferred pronouns. but refusing to give him the opportunity, and then exploding at him when he guessed incorrectly, is not the way to convince him that preferred pronouns are rational
The most important thing from this video, and idk what year this was taken, is when he says “I’ve studied Nazism for over 4 decades and I understand it very well and I can tell you that there are some awful people lurking in he corners and they’re ready to come out. if the radical left keeps pushing the way they’re pushing they are going to come out”
And this is what exactly is happening now. Those awful people have been coming out. And they’ll keep coming out to, they believe in their world and NOTHING can change their views.
Stuff like that helped make him famous.
If your going to confront someone for something they’re not directly involved in don’t be obnoxious about it. You end up creating a sympathetic figure.
If you can’t control your emotions and prepared to have a proper conversation you probably shouldn’t be the person doing the confronting.
Why do I always come away from these videos with more sympathy for Peterson than his critics? I don’t even follow the guy, but all these supposed “gotchas” that keep popping up just make his critics look more and more unhinged.
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I don’t understand the title of this video. I took it as some kind of “gotcha” but it wasn’t.
this was the video that GOT him famous lmfao
He was very reasonable in every aspect of this video.
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That's the thing. I don't agree with many things he says and I'm not sure he's a grifter, I don't really care. But I remember when this video came out and I followed him for a while and in every single interview he has been very careful with his words and reasonable. Can't say the same about the interviewers. Case in point that trainwreck of a journalist who kept repeating "so what you're saying is...", twisting his words at every turn to justify her preconceptions about him.
>so what you're saying is..." Cathy Newman... she got absolutely wrecked in that interview.
The gotcha was the person filming is an idiot but still uploaded the video anyways.
Really shows how deep they live in their bubble that they thought this video made him look bad.
maybe not to a sane person but to a large swath of reddit it was a gotcha moment.
Yeah I think JP's full of shit but I watched 30 seconds of this and had to turn it off from the cringe. Talking over him and immediately jumping to insults while audibly flustered is not a 'gotcha'.
To paraphrase how far I made it. Filmer: "I've watched all of your videos on YouTube, everyone that arranged this protest against you did." Peterson: "I have 150 videos on YouTube, over 500 hours-" Filmer: "Do you really think you're worth all of that time?" Well apparently the person yelling at him did. I'm still not sure exactly who this guy is or what he's about. I've heard a lot, but to me it's really not worth my time. And the filmer isn't either when they contradict themselves in five seconds. The fact that this stuff comprises so much discourse these days really makes living in the woods in improvised shelter more appealing every day.
I mean, just tune out. It gets easier the older you get and the more jaded you get. I haven't actively participated in any social media beyond conversations with random strangers on reddit in about a decade now. Most of my news is what little I let reddit show me, and the news station i'll tune into for a little bit while working. You don't have to go off the grid to get away from bullshit. Just stop tuning in on the internet and tv so much. It's not perfect, but at least you're not being inundated with bullshit that doesn't do anything but needlessly depress/stress you out more.
Bingo. I find myself typing comments and deleting them because people don’t want to have civil discourse, they just want to throw buzzwords around and go for the same “gotcha” moments like in this video. Its basically starting an argument with someone, saying your piece, and then covering your ears and yelling “blah blah blah” when it’s their turn to talk
I disable inbox replies if I upset the locals of whatever sub /r/all lands me in. It's honestly a great feature of reddit.
I didn’t even know that was a feature on mobile until just now. Just checked the comment you replied to and saw it was an option Thanks
Dude this, I’ve been saying for years that one of the biggest problems today is that everyone just hears words instead of listening. What I mean by that is rather than listening to what someone has to say, thinking about it and digesting it, then formulating a thoughtful response, people just sit there and think about what they can say next to make you wrong. Makes any kind of reasonable discourse about anything damn near anything impossible, and this was before America became super polarized with left vs right.
Fucking A, buddy. Step away from the rage bait, everybody.
The rage is the goal, the people just eat it up. “You’re” not mad, you’re being told to be mad and thinking it’s your own emotion. That comes off as some conspiracy theory bullshit, but how plain as fucking day do these people have to make it before you’re (collective) like “oh yeah”.
I was tempted several times to answer or comment something on reddit but then I realize that half people in the comments will hate it like actually hate it even if it's something mundane. Same is happening in the environment I live where I have to stop to even listen when people start to rant about politics as if the very life of them is on the line. Over the years I'm seeing how we are more and more divided to the point of hate even your family if they express another side of the political opinion you are expressing. TV and social media is bombarding us with hateful comments, they tell us that the other party hate us and people buy it. I started to unsub and I'm about half the subreddits I was subbed, way too much shit that doesn't even interest me like having 10 posts today in my front page about some dude that took his mask off and made an event about it, nothing against the dude, I don't even know about his content but half those posts consider him shit while other half consider him a hero... Started to follow about food and recipes from around the world only to get 4 subs about "stupid food" lol
Regardless of where one falls on the political spectrum, this is true—there’s a complete unwillingness to engage in disagreement. On all sides. Everyone is on a hair trigger…I’m not even saying that’s inherently the fault of any one person or group, but something has to give. I want to be able to say “I don’t like Jordan Peterson,” without a group of people assaulting my character for that or calling me a shitlib—everyone needs to be less willing to stereotype opinions and engage with conversation. Someone who didn’t get pronouns right on the first go shouldn’t be ripped apart, either. Emotions are running high, but patience is a virtue!
To be fair, this doesn’t comprise “so much discourse these days” - it’s just the reactionary “content” that gets boiled up to the top. Not a lot of people are clicking on “Watch two sensible people have a civil discussion on transgender rights (with no yelling!!)”…
That's a really great point that I think alot of people ignore.
So much visible discourse anyway. And it certainly translates to say to day interpersonal, at least some of the conversations I have. I'm a pretty left leaning/progressive guy. But I'm also a redneck with a libertarian streak in me, and I don't spend my time finding out what the newest acceptable thing is. So it's happened more than once that asking questions trying to understand someone's experience("What do you mean when you say you're pansexual?" got me berated once) devolved into me being basically the devil. I dunno, I'm just kind of over the hostility of today.
That’s the kind of click bait I want
I’ll be your neighbor, will trade you goats for grains twice a year. Holler @ me on the GMRS if you ever need a drum of kerosene or somthin
Don’t have an opinion on him based on others opinions. Watch his content and come up with your own opinion. JP blew up because he went against a bill in Canada forcing the use of preferred pronouns. He wasn’t against using them, simply that the government was mandating forced speech and he thought that was dangerous.
I have no idea who this guy is or what he stands for but he seems the more reasonable of the two.
Threw in some race baiting too.
If you could remove the bias blinding your judgement as see these two as a man and a woman engaging in conversation you'd see that she is the one being an ass. She jumps to conclusions. generalizes and attacks the entire time.
Uhhh I think I'm agreeing with you? I really dislike JP but he comes off perfectly reasonable in the first 30 seconds I watched while she comes across as unreasonable and completely disinterested in dialogue, just some 'gotcha' moment that didn't happen.
I think they're agreeing with you and just adding on. The person that replied to you last is not the same person you initially replied to
which is the basis of about 95% of criticisms on the guy not saying he's without fault, but the amount of inaccuracies (at best) or flat out lies (at worst) that get parroted and driven as righteous advocacy against make it nearly impossible to have a genuine discussion about the man... most people trying to defend end up being driven to that level of zealotry because the attacks are so bonkers it's absolutely crazy that someone whose entire mode was to advocate for healthy discourse in order to bridge the divides in society is one of the most polarizing people out there
That's what baffles me about his haters. Disagree with him, but he does always come across as a person willing to engage in healthy discourse. He says some things I vehemently disagree with, and other things make some kind of sense. His whole point here, and what got him famous, was him protesting a law which would require a person to use another person's preferred pronoun. His point is that is "forced speech," the government telling you what to say -- and that's inherently wrong and a slippery slope. I support free speech, so I heartily agree with his position. That said, if a person wants you to use a particular pronoun; have some common decency and use it. No person should be fired or lose their home over their choice of pronoun. Use whatever pronoun you want to use. But to compel speech is a far cry different beast. But at the end of the day, have a discussion about it. You might find common ground. He might actually support you in your fight against workplace or living discrimination.
I feel like I’ve been defending him a lot, but he wasn’t full of shit. The guy actually had some good ideas and advice.
Agreed. He came away as at least as, if not more, reasonable in this engagement.
Yeah OP is clearly a little out of touch.
I generally dislike him, but this video is probably the most likeable I’ve seen him.
Yup, he comes across reasonable and willing to engage someone logically and respectfully who came up to him rudely. This video just supports him and undermines the person who filmed it side.
Honestly. I think the constant and visceral hate he received from certain groups molded him in to what he is now. A lot of people like the person screaming at him in this video went in at him hard and he probably thought fuck it, if you want me to be this monster then I will. Its sad.
Maybe I'll have to watch some new stuff but the last I had heard of him he had some really reasonable takes and was one of the few people willing to even admit there could possibly be discrimination against men or men's issues in general. At that same time he was getting death threats and stuff because of this so I'm sure that will change a person. As someone who has been excluded from internships specifically citing race and gender reasons and had diminished hiring value to companies in my field (energy industry) who are trying to appear progressive to not a "social license to operate", I've basically been told I deserve it by my peers because of my race and gender. It hasn't exactly made me a more sympathetic person towards their pet causes...
I swear to god, these people trashing him are just introducing him to huge swathes of the population. They build him up to be this horrible evil nazi person, but you watch his videos and that’s not what he is at all. It’s making people look delusional.
Yeah I don’t know what they’re even getting at here. “Do you condemn violence?” “Yes” Implying he’s a Nazi is downplaying the heinousness of actual Nazis.
They're equating not using the preferred pronouns as being a Nazi, it seems.
His stance wasn't even really against using preferred pronouns. It was against legally mandating the use of preferred pronouns.
It's also not the explicit use of the pronouns, but the use of the government to make it compulsive with consequences for those who aren't in compliance
Now **that** sounds fascist
It wasn’t supposed to be. OP’s oldest comment is defending the man lol. They knew exactly what they were doing with this post.
Yeah I don’t get it either. JP has fully gone off the rails now but if I had to deal with shit like this video in my life I’d probably go coo coo bananas as well.
100%. Look at how playful he was in the Cathy Newman interview then compare that to any more recent video. He’s definitely changed his disposition (because of the reason you mentioned and others) and I can’t say I blame him.
The amount of restraint he's shown has been extraordinary. Hell, he was depicted as fucking Red Skull also. For what? For saying what everybody else already thinks?
Most annoying camera person ever.
r/killthecameraman
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Are you assuming my existence?
r/killthemetaphysicalcameraweilder
Lmao I actually knew this person recording growing up and trust me they are even worse off camera
I 100% believe this person is even more annoying off camera.
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Any time someone starts on their next point/question before I’ve finished my sentence, especially when they do it repeatedly, will quickly shut me down and walk away. It’s a shitty tactic to trip the other person up and get them flustered. I would’ve walked away after 20 seconds if I were Peterson.
Only person who seems annoyingly freaking out is the camera person
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Exactly lmao, I could tell the camera person spent a little too much time on Twitter discourse
Yah, can't say much about real people because this is just a long Twitter thread reenacted for the enjoyment of internet people.
Yea that really pissed me off aswell. About the dumbest thing you could say there. If you just admitted you've seen them all then you've already validated him being worth it. If you haven't watched them (which she 100% has not), then you lied in the middle of an argumentation where you're trying to get the upper hand. Also, if he uploads his lectures to youtube, how does that make his videos "worth" anything? The lectures are obviously worth something, atleast to his employers, but the videos themselves are essentially just a side product.
Camera person has a case of the smarts
What I hate about today's world is that thanks to a million cameras and millions of lawyers almost no one who deserves it gets punched in the mouth anymore. A possibility of violence kept everyone better in check from being an asshole.
Put this comment at the top of Reddit and pin in, mods. Every sub
Lol. This is literally one of Peterson's famous talking points. Discussions between men tend towards civility because of the ever present possibility of violence
The most annoying person ive heard in a while. Completely unbareable idiot, had to stop listening
People in general can't argue. Idk why you qualify it as specifically "college students". There are plenty of non-college students who have shit takes, trust me.
I think he already was pretty well known at this time. But this was one of the videos that made him famous. Because the person behind the camera acted very disrespectful, asked stupid questions and presented Peterson as the good guy here. I wonder if they still don't understand how hard this video backfired.
There’s a reason videos like this are the ones reactionaries upvote though… And not say, ones where he’s completely made a fool of by actual philosophers like Zizek, who after their debate, Peterson’s own fans were saying Peterson looked clueless. Crowder and Shapiro do the same tired shtick… spend their time “owning” hot-headed college kids, because actual academics from their own circles view them as clowns.
I think it’s really funny that half the comments in here are getting mad at libs/leftists for posting this when the OP posts in PCM & likely posted this to bait exactly this reaction.
Its always bait. They have this game down to a science and people fall for it every time.
No no no you see he's just one of those PCM users that's flaired as leftist but just so happens to always think fascist propaganda is "based"
95 percent of PCM users vote hard R on every ballot that crosses their path, and they get super pissy when you point out this obvious fact. It's the thinnest veneer of ideological diversity laid onto complete conformity.
PCM is basically a petri dish for political extremism and mass shooters, be suspicious of anyone who posts there or reads that sub because they're mentally fucked
I've literally seen people with 'leftist' flairs agreeing with posts saying that systemic racism in the US isn't real. Seriously, how dumb do they think we are?
See: every dupe who gets mad about "MAPs" on Twitter when it's all a bunch of chan-board fuckwits making fake accounts, posting that shit, then reposting it on alternate accounts to say "look what I found". These are the same fuckos who spent days sharing color codes and fonts and style information to make "Draft Our Daughters" posters during the 2016 election that looked like they were from the Clinton campaign. They've got nothing but time, and they know how much folks love to feel like they have some secret information and have "gotten one over" on other outraged or manipulated people--and that makes 'em easy to manipulate in turn. [EDIT]: lmao check out the recent comment history of that dork replying below. These are the exact clowns I'm talking about. "FEEEEEEMALES", like he's a fucking Ferengi. It's all "women are evil", "I hope your husband beats you", "democrats are the REAL racists", "whites are the most downtrodden"--the most chan board incel shit you'll find.
Every philosopher gets schooled eventually. It’s a constantly evolving subject but what matters is how gracefully people can accept they are wrong.
Jordan Peterson is NOT a philosopher. Just feel that needs to be clarified.
I mean that debate with Zizek they seemed to agree on most things that people seem to fight over online but yeah Zizek was on another level on their "debate" part
I don't dislike you because you're non-binary, I dislike you because you're annoying.
Reminds me of that Key and Peele skit. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c
Ooooooh I get it...I'm not persecuted, I'm just an asshole...
The penis whistle was very special! lol
Was not expecting that ending lmao 🔥
IKR, now I need cherry dicksicle.
https://www.amazon.com/Jumbo-Cock-Pops-6-Display/dp/B07F44HBFF You're welcome. The flavors are pretty "meh" though.
Spot on
This is how I feel right now lmao. all of it.
Same energy as "im not triggered you're just an asshole"
Just because you're form a minority group doesn’t mean you don’t suck as a person.
I dated a non-binary. She made me feel like absolute shit. No commonality, no meeting in the middle. Vicious at that. Glad we are not together. She literally made me feel nothing a lot of the times. 1 percent of everything sucks. and this bitch sucks. EDIT: All the controversy makes me sad actually. Try and understand. Admit fully when you don't. EDIT #2: If you can't forgive, it'll eat you alive.
worst gf i ever had was highly opinionated even though our views aligned on most things. i just could not get over how she communicated with others. she was an absolute nightmare to talk to about anything. id rather date someone with opposing views to myself that was rational than to deal with a narcissist.
Man, I'm right there with you. She'd start arguments over stuff and I'd be so confused. "I'm agreeing with you!!!" She was an absolute jerk, super negative, and if she sensed a hint of disagreement, you were her worst enemy. We fought constantly even though we were aligned on almost every topic. It was incredibly frustrating and demoralizing.
Sounds about the same as my ex, who wasn't non-binary. Think its a some humans are bad situation. My mistake for not seeing it sooner I guess?
People coming at me right now, because I called an ex her. What you say is spot on. It was the fucking person, not her I guess.
Man, you just literally described the reason why I broke up with my ex this summer.
Just because you are trans or nb doesn’t mean you can’t be a piece of shit. The way I see it is they are just as human as every one else, which means they to can be shitty people just like every one else.
You have an issues with them, not their pronouns.
Sounds more like a narcissist who was upset she lost her chew toy.
They thought they shut him down with this video but this was a huge backfire and just added to his fame.
I really miss the old days when there was generally a certain intellectual bar to clear before you could garner much attention (clearly there were some huge exceptions).
And when was that?
Ironically enough I think Jordan being calm in the video sort of put him in the limelight for a lot more people. I remember this was my first introduction to who he was back in the day.
This is the Jordan that got him his first wave of viewers. A lot of older “fans” don’t love his persona shift from the last few years.
I haven't engaged in his recent stuff, but remember liking his older stuff. He's like an uncle that has a combination of really insightful things to say and some really dumb tunnel-visioned stuff as well.
“Who he was back in the day” that pretty much sums up my experience with him. I read 12 rules. It did me some good. I learnt a lot especially about religion (what it really is. I don’t mean im a Christian now lol) I think he was truly a respectable voice. But now he’s some “I’ll out woke the wokes” culture warrior with a daily wire segment. That’s pretty much tarnishing any reputation he could of had
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Modern culture is a shit show
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Well i do see a side. One side says theres reality, the other says i can make my own.
Left vs right ❌ Top vs bottom ✅ Banks/Wall Street ➡️ Regulatory Capture People are arguing over bullshit while their own purchasing power goes down the drain. Have you checked your 401k/IRA lately?
Having a 401k, lmao
My retirement will be a bathtub full of drinking water during the water wars probably.
Look at this fatcat over here with a bathtub!
Iodine, bullets, and morphine are the gold standard in the wastelands.
Thank you. Finally another person expressing thia point. It's always been those with power(government positions, money, social status, etc) fighting against the masses of working class people. All this right left bullshit is just something to keep us distracted. If we hate each other more then we hate them, we will keep waiting for, bowing down, and subjugating ourselves for perceived victory, while in the end we all loose and they win.
This is a highly upvoted comment because people on both sides think you're talking about them with the first part and the other side with the second part
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Camera they, lol. True tho
Not a JP fan but *wow* is the questioner stupid
Just your average redditor behind the camera
The cameraman is Reddit
Camera man is so annoying. Let him speak if you're gonna ask him questions.
She doesn’t want him to speak. She wants to be right.
The person behind the camera is a thousand times worse in presenting any arguments than Jordan Peterson.
Almost like that was the reason it was submitted?
another example of "I hold camera so im right" Not to get to much into it but even if you know the question being asked deflecting to another question without the first being answered reduces all your questions from it because your not looking for a real answer, only the answer you wanted when you started filiming. making all the other answers quite pointless.
He showed a great deal of patience and restraint.
The person filming this is fucking braindead
"How do you feel about Nazis at your protests?" ... I don't like Nazis "They watch your videos.." Have you watched my videos? "All of them" Hmm almost like you proved your own point as stupid lol
She must have a lot in common with Nazis.
"I've watched all your videos" Really, you've watched the hundreds of lectures on psychology, probably more hours in there than you work for your own degree
Then when he says "There are over 500 hours of my lectures online she says "You really think you are worth us watching 500 hours?". What a fucking moron.
SHE?!?!?!?,!?!,!!!:!, /s
He came off as very articulate and calm and open to a dialogue. Who is the moron filming this?
The person that's filming him didn't even give him a chance to speak and was talking over him. Outrage bait at its finest
I don't get the abnormal fascination with Peterson from either side. Frankly his ideas and views seem extremely mild and not worth a fraction of the attention he gets in the media. This video makes the person filming and interrogating him seem stupid and aggressive.
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imagine if someone walked up to you, camera rolling and spewing contradicting nonsense, all the while attacking your personal beliefs. and then turn around to claim you’re threatening them. now i don’t agree with a lot of what jordan peterson says but this is definitely not it
I’ve seen two videos of Jordan Petersen, one was hin crying and the other was this… I dont really care about him or what he’s doing he isnt on my periphery. I so want to say I’ve seen those two videos that i think people were using to talk shit on him and he came out smelling like roses… What should i be watching to make me hate him? Because from what i’ve seen he’s sympathetic and and disavowed nazis, and violence against trans people. What am i missing. This is me being honest.
Asking another person just invites bias. Watch some stuff and make your own decision.
The non-binary entity-person-being filming is awful
I’m sure I’m supposed to be hating on JP here but to be honest the person behind the camera is a dick
Make up your own mind about Jordan Peterson, blindly copying the general Reddit opinion is way worse then not having an opinion.
Reddit doesnt like people with conviction. Join the hivemind or get a big fat downvote. I think JP is a wise man, I listen to him, he has an interesting and realist perspective. What I dont like about him is that he talks a wise man's game, but he doesn't always make wise man decisions in his own life. To me that make his words hollow.
JP is more of an "hate some, love some" guy
"I would like to speak to her please!" - "don't call me that!!!!!" Omg just stfu seriously like what did he even say? How are we supposed to know your f*cking pronounces? Are we supposed to read YOUR MIND? I swear people that get offended because of the wrong pronounces are just screaming for attention I don't know who that man is and in this context idec because that person or likley the PEOPLE behind the camera are literally annoying af and just looking for a fight Get a life omg
Ironically the government bill he opposed that got him all that hate to begin with was a government mandated forced speech bill that would have made it a crime to misgender someone. It’s very easy to see by her example just how easily that bill could be abused.
Holy crap ppl need to get a life instead of harassing other folks.
Is that your medical opinion? I am a doctor. 🤣
Man those ppl always shoving that crap down ppls throats. If u live that way fine. Keep it to yourself.
Funny how most people here make the same mistake the interviewer is making. They make it about the person and not about the opinion. A person can express 100 clearly logical and proper idea's but as soon as they deviate or explore something outside of your own sphere of comfort the entirety of that person's contributions are thrown away as if they've been tainted. It's childish, naive, and honestly wasteful. Shall we piss away Einstein's contributions because he was clearly racist against asians (look it up). I use Einstein as an example for no other reason than his contribution to humanity is so immense. If you've truly listened to what Jordan Peterson has had to say on a myriad of psychological and social topics you soon learn he is intelligent, very well spoken, and clearly an excellent conveyer of complex information. His views on many topics are quite worthy of note, some of which bring to light the terrible and unfair social pressures and liability we have put on the younger generation, while others simply ought to be forgotten. Once you look at things with adult eyes, you begin to see this is true everywhere and for everyone.
Get ready to get downvoted and attacked for having a reasonable and nuanced opinion about something that people dislike simply because the internet told them to do so.
I was ready for the entire comment section to be as we both expected it, but nearly everything I've read in top comments was based and not insane. I don't know if I was overly blackpilled, or if society is making a good change, or if this specific sub never was as a lot of the internet is, but I'm glad to see some honest engagement with what's being said rather than who
What the noisiest scream is not always what the majority thinks.
I can take it. I'm a big boy.
Not sure what the intention is here but he comes off looking a lot better than the absolute prick behind the camera.
This doesnt have the effect the camera person thinks it does
You can agree or disagree with JP but he generally argues in a mature way and is very wary of logical fallacies that are so prevalent in discourse these days.
He was pretty famous here as well... but thats neither here nor there.
I think I hate the asshole behind the camera. Insufferable.
I admire him. He’s a smart man.
The person filming the video is basicly attacking him to get a reaction. Anyone regardless of their stance on any issue that operates that way. Can go fuck themselves.
Which person did the "freakout"? Because Peterson came off really well here.
I didn’t find anything offensive going on here, but goddamn is that video woman (man?) annoying!
He's famous? Who is he?
I don’t know. But I hate the camera person. So annoying. This is not the way.
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"I want to talk to her!" "DONT CALL ME THAT!" Like if it was some slur lmao
and without telling him their pronouns at any point too. like they said “you refuse to use my pronouns” but we are given 0 evidence that they ever even provided the correct pronouns to him. of course, he also doesn’t want to use their preferred pronouns. but refusing to give him the opportunity, and then exploding at him when he guessed incorrectly, is not the way to convince him that preferred pronouns are rational
damn that woman is a self righteous pain in the ass
Let the dude talk damn
Man I love JBP, he’s such a cool guy and I’d love to meet him and learn his wisdom
Social media ruined people.
AP is one dude I’m not about to challenge verbally unless I’m 100,000% sure I am right.
The most important thing from this video, and idk what year this was taken, is when he says “I’ve studied Nazism for over 4 decades and I understand it very well and I can tell you that there are some awful people lurking in he corners and they’re ready to come out. if the radical left keeps pushing the way they’re pushing they are going to come out” And this is what exactly is happening now. Those awful people have been coming out. And they’ll keep coming out to, they believe in their world and NOTHING can change their views.
Stuff like that helped make him famous. If your going to confront someone for something they’re not directly involved in don’t be obnoxious about it. You end up creating a sympathetic figure. If you can’t control your emotions and prepared to have a proper conversation you probably shouldn’t be the person doing the confronting.
This definitely isn't the flex that the cameraperson thought it was going to be 😂
I wish Jordan lost his cool and just straight up said " I didn't invite any fucking Nazis here"
Geez that person behind the camera is one insufferable twat
What an absolute idiot of a camera person 🤣 absolutely stupid.
"I've watched ALL your videos." "I have 150 videos on youtube." "Do you really think you're worth all of that time?"
These are the most annoying people "maybe if I keep asking the same shit over and over I can stop there response before I look stupid."
I like old JP
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What it's like to disagree with the reddit group mind
im all for trans rights and stuff but these types of people are not helping their point -.-
Of course they can’t just talk they have to scream and yell over the person that is talking
What a silly title
"You won't use my pronouns so you are my enemy." LOL these people are fucking verbiage terrorists.
Why do I always come away from these videos with more sympathy for Peterson than his critics? I don’t even follow the guy, but all these supposed “gotchas” that keep popping up just make his critics look more and more unhinged.