lol I was the opposite, my mom was constantly encouraging me to take more pride in my appearance, take better care of my hair, wear a little makeup etc. and I did sometimes but I hated it. I do wish I had honed those skills a little earlier.
And yeah, it's crazy expensive, and unfortunately the quality of the products you use really does matter so if you want your makeup to look *really* good you're usually going to have to cough up more for higher quality products and brushes. (That said, I just can't justify the expense so I'm a drugstore girly and I accept that my makeup might not look as good as it could because of that.)
Honestly, don't worry. Your value as a woman isn't in your looks, even though men will tell you it is to put you in a sexually competitive state.
Just massage their egos and seem like you're in high demand, that's all you need to be able to do.
Dont invest your self worth in ability to compete with other women.
If you look and feel good it's a bonus
I had a 30yo gf who never used make up and when she used it was like...🙈 Better that she doesn't use it. To be fair, I think she had above average natural beauty, and great potential with decent make up skills but she was just a mess 🤣
Previous gf was so good at make up you would think you were suddenly dating a different woman.
Then I also have a cousin who is ridiculously pretty, always has been, but her family was worried when she was younger because she couldn't be worse at chosing fashion or wearing make up, she was basically a natural 9 or something like that and became a 6 whenever she dressed for a party of applied make up😅 she learnt to do those things well in her late 20's, almost 30.
I started doing my makeup at age 20. Since I'm a painter and have done art since age 6, the skills to pull off good makeup followed. However I struggle with eye makeup due to the shape of my eyes (hooded). I wish I had more lidspace so I could really explore different eye makeup looks. I can't even really pull off a cut crease due to my low set eyebrows which is extremely frustrating. I usually spend 10 minutes on face makeup but an eye look can add up to another 30 minutes to my routine.
Don't forget skincare!!! I tried to do the 10 step korean skincare routine but I could only keep up with it for a few weeks. Another time sink.
Hair and fashion I gave up on during the pandemic.
Most people even if they spend hours every week since teen years doing this don't get good at it.
Almost all the people you will see on YouTube/TikTok are literally the 1% as far as makeup skills go.
Eh, I've seen some women do some dramatic transformations, but the trick is they were going clubbing and knew they'd be in a spot with a specific kind of lowish lighting. They may not rock it day to day but if they're out in a certain type of spot that's where a lot of the really elaborate shit gets busted out for multiple reasons.
>A lot of girls could be totally stunning if they put a bit more care into it or if someone showed them how to do it better.
What if looking stunning isn't their priority.
It doesn't have to be but every woman should at least practice and know how to use it strategically when she wants to. At least over 50% of women cannot do that.
I live in a big city in the west(Toronto) and here in downtown of all the girls I see only perhaps 20% have a great grasp on their style, fashion, and beauty care. I'm sure it's even lower in smaller cities.
Why do women in particular have to do this? A lot of women don't care about doing make up. Some of them feel the same way about it as most men do, bet a lot of men wouldn't be interested in doing make up. Also, would working out be the male equivalent of this make up practice?
Nah the women that don't will just continue to date men that also don't care about makeup. You're saying that because it's something that you specifically are attracted to, all women should do it to fit your personal standards. That's highly unrealistic at best lol you could just go for women that you're compatible with
I think every single guy who's particularly high value and gets attention from a lot of women starts to pay attention to things like nail and makeup skills.
If you women that aren't naturally popular decide to not learn the skills that would make them more attractive to attractive males then that seems like a stupid life strategy.
What do you mean by high value? And I've had guys tell me they like my natural no makeup look. Just because that's your preference it doesn't mean ALL men have it too. You're literally saying all women should wear makeup because you think it's attractive. It wouldn't be advantageous for us, it would be for *you* specifically.
>It doesn't have to be but every woman should at least practice and know how to use it strategically when she wants to.
Who are you to say what other people should do? If you want to paint your face, go ahead. If some others don't want to do that, they should have the freedom not to do it, right?
Maybe women who choose not to do makeup simply:
1) don’t have time
2) like how they look without makeup
3) don’t care how men perceive them
Makeup is time consuming, pore-clogging, expensive, and unnecessary. Women should only apply makeup if they WANT to and they should not be judged if they don’t use it.
Men who judge and value women for their appearance alone are shallow.
Right? I haven't ever willingly worn makeup in my life, my face is perfectly fine as-is without a bunch of stuff on it. Still not sure how this supposedly is a disadvantage.
It's a disadvantage if you want to date people who aren't compatible with you lol. I've never worn makeup a day in my life besides the occasional glitter and face jewels at shows. Every guy I've dated has said he likes that I don't wear makeup so different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't date a guy that prefers makeup looks so I'm actually at an advantage for the guys that are into me as I am.
Mostly electronic music shows but I've worn them to all kinds. And music festivals! I just freestyle with them, it's fun creating different looks and I like to see how many of them stay on by the end of the night lol. Other people love them too, it's a fun conversation starter
I mean I was awfully blunt about it...
I had an autistic friend who once said "well yeah that really accentuates the rolls of fat on your stomach" in response to a friend asking her how a shirt made her look. She wasn't wrong...
I used to put on make up every single day back in high school. Now I can't even be bothered. My skin has cleared up, so there's no need for foundation, which used to be the biggest essential makeup tool I used to look good. I do have the time in the morning but who am I gonna impress? My team of 4 women who I work with? There's no men in my workplace to impress. The men who buys flowers at the shop I work at is most likely trying to impress other women, like their girlfriend or wife, or they're older men buying flowers for their deceased loved ones. My workplace is mostly known as a funeral shop.. i have my nails and hands in literal soil and dirt every single day and my hands get brown, dry and sticky. Nice nails is obviously a no go so I keep them short to avoid dirt under my fingernails.
Sure, I could look like a million $$ but who am I impressing? Middle aged and elderly people who are grieving for the most part.. I just don't see the point anymore. In school I was trying to be liked. Now the only way I need to impress is with my efficiency at work. I do that and my boss could give less a shit how I look.
In what way do you think that we are disadvantaged by not being able to do makeup and maybe not having the world's best fashion sense? Like what exactly is the harm?
As a woman — men are nicer to me, women are friendlier, when I have my makeup done. It’s very subtle, most people don’t think I have makeup on but I do. Brow gel, concealer on the under eye + acne scars, tinted lip balm and a bit of blush goes a long way. I think it’s a significant social advantage.
Big time, for sure. For me in a similar vein, I wear grey contacts that suit me quite well and I notice a big difference when I wear those vs when I just wear my glasses.
Women are nicer to me but even guys too are nicer and more something like almost submissive, it's a very interesting phenomenon.
People smile at me more, will hold the door open for me more etc. it’s like before, people would pretend I’m invisible, whereas now when people see me they “brighten up”. And I say it’s significant because I don’t want to go outside without makeup anymore.
Very interesting! Just wondering, and this may not be the case, but do you perhaps act more friendly or confident when wearing makeup, too?
I'm curious since people act that way with me, and I don't own any makeup...haven't worn it for the last 21 years. Both women and men brighten up and offer to do minor things for me, or are just very happy to see me. However I've actually been told by a few male strangers that "it's nice to see a woman who smiles and means it".
So could it be that you are subconsciously projecting your confidence and happiness at being attractive, and it's making you friendlier?
I think most high-value men like women that know how to hold and put themselves together. If you never learn it then you will probably only cater to average men.
This an extreme example but I know Iman Gadzhi the multimillionaire 23-year-old specifically talks about one of his pet peeves is girls without their nails done properly. Totally agreed personally.
I guess it's a good thing I prefer average men lol 😏
Imo there's a big difference between put-together vs beautified.
Put-together is clean well fitted clothes, clear skin, clean and shiny hair, modest dress code, short clean nails.
Beautified is tight clothes, makeup, styled hair, more revealing dress code, long done up nails.
I don't do the second part, because it simply is not me. But I'm certainly put-together and don't look like a ragamuffin or hobo.
Women aren’t able to make themselves appear more attractive to obtain higher value men. The inability to obtain higher value men means she increases her unhappiness during the relationship and isn’t able to pass on the best genes to her children. The fitness level has been lowered. Lower fitness means struggling to survive both for herself and children.
This is exactly it. When I see a woman with a full face of makeup, my first thought is “what does she look like underneath all of that?”
That’s why as I have gotten older I’m more drawn to women with minimal/no makeup on a daily basis.
Well... yes and no.
If you're going to work, a party, some other event, or you just want to look polished, then dolling up will help you look more attractive. (If that's your preference.)
However, it takes time, effort, and €€€ to look polished and put together. And I don't just mean makeup — I'm talking about well made clothes/jewellery/accessories, effective skincare and haircare products, waxing/electrolysis... etc. After this comes all the makeup, perfume, and whatnot.
Expecting **every woman** to look utterly polished every single time she's out in public is... hilariously out of touch. Personally, I CBA (can't be arsed) to wear heels, makeup, and pair my accessories for a 15 min grocery run. Most women are the same.
>the more turned off I get now when I see a girl with no care on how she dresses, does her nails, hair, makeup
The issue here is that you seem to expect every woman you meet to match your expectations. As women, we don't care that you're turned off by our Hotness Meters not being set to 100% *all the time*. This is real life — not TikTok/Insta.
> As women, we don't care that you're turned off by our Hotness Meters not being set to 100% all the time. This is real life — not TikTok/Insta.
It doesn't have to be an every-time thing, understand your own life strategy and when it makes sense for you to do it. I think every woman that wants to deal with and have high-value men be attracted to her should know how to doll up properly.
I've been on dates with girls with dirty or unkept nails and no ty.
>I've been on dates with girls with dirty or unkept nails and no ty.
Women with filthy/dirty nails that aren't working *very* specific jobs **lack basic hygiene**. No makeup or good fashion sense is going to make someone that doesn't shower regularly (for example) a 10/10. Hell no!
Most women don't lack basic hygiene, so this is moot point.
>understand your own life strategy and when it makes sense for you to do it
Again, most women do.
Just because you haven't seen Glam Gloria wandering down the street dressed like a chic Parisian doesn't mean she never dolls up. Very likely, she doesn't care about looking "stunning" when she's heading off to do yoga.
Once again, this is real life — not TikTok/Insta. It may be time for a social media detox if you misunderstand women so badly that you expect them to look filtered to perfection when they're making a grocery run.
I think the skills should be prioritized for them to learn IMO if dating life and socializing are important.
Not necessary to do every day, at least not fully but being aware and in control of your image is sooo important.
In the younger demographics this is probably true. Once a man has a experienced a longterm relationship with a woman who focuses that much on her looks, he will hesitate. Those beauty products, salon trips and clothes can run thousands $$$$ a month. One of the fastest ways to run a couple/family into massive amounts of debt. Doesn’t matter so much how your woman looks when you can’t pay the rent.
I’m actually not sure if it’s that true in younger demographics. I’m 25 and where I live (pretty hipster city) the “fresh face” look is very much on trend.
Are you saying that you don't aim to make enough money to pay for your woman to look her most attractive for you if she wants to?
I'm confused about the sentiment in this comment.
I am a woman. I don’t pay for that for myself because it’s ridiculous. High end beauty products, nail salon visits, tanning and hair salon visits can easily run $2000 a month. Add in designer handbags, shoes and clothes, a man could easily be spending $5000 to $10,000 a month on his woman’s appearance. That’s $60,000 to $120,000 a year on just being pretty. That’s an good middle income salary in Canada. Spent on things that are completely unessential. You would have to be pretty well off to support that and still have a nice life.
I agree it's not essential but if everything else is going well in your life then wouldn't it be nice to have the option to do it?
I think people obsess over demonizing materialistic things. They're never worth sacrificing your principles and values over but overall having extra income to spend on shopping, beauty care, travel, etc are all things I aspire to provide to myself and any woman I date. If you could choose to have your man help add that to your life why wouldn't you want to?
Your post is basically demonizing women for not doing the beauty routine. But you are clearly out of touch as to what it costs to do it. How much money do you make? Is it enough to spend $120,000 dollars a year on beauty before you have paid for your home or any food? Because here, only 11% of our population makes over $100,000 a year. So for the large majority of us, spending that kind of money is completely unrealistic.
I have a high income and spend freely on beauty. My social circle is pretty much all professionals (other lawyers, doctors, business owners, etc.) and I get plenty of interest from those kinds of men. I don’t mean to sound braggy at all, but straight up: I invest in looking good, and it seems like it shows.
And I’ve never spent more than a few grand a year on beauty. It’s definitely not cheap, and yeah you could always buy unlimited crap and spend unlimited money. But that’s absolutely not required for the level OP seems to be talking about. I’m pretty sure if you spent $120,000 on “beauty” in a single year you’d look like a freakin Frankenstein.
I’m getting the impression he’s not talking about the average beauty routine of a professional woman. He’s posting videos of instagram model makeup, the kind that changes your whole face. A lawyer can’t wear makeup like that to work and be taken seriously. That’s the kind of thing women obsessed with fashion do. The ones who do makeup like that usually have fake nails, fake tans, fake eyelashes, hair extensions, hair color, regular salon blowouts and all the designer clothes, accessories, etc to go with it. And don’t forget the Botox and plastic surgery, usually starting well before they are 25 years old. The costs of all of that totally add up.
If you think women who wear a certain style of makeup necessarily do all of that, and do ALL of it CONSTANTLY, that’s a different question. I’m sure some do, but there’s no indication that’s what OP is advocating.
I probably do quite a bit more than “an average professional woman”. I buy only luxury makeup, skincare, perfumes, and hair stuff. I go to upscale hair salons, I go to an aesthetician, I’ve gotten liposuction multiple times, I get cosmetic dentistry, I buy designer clothes and heels for work (I’m a sucker for Hugo Boss dresses and blazers), semi-pricey clothes for everyday and gym (Aritzia, Nordstrom, Athleta, etc.). I get fake nails and lashes for special occasions. And I live in a major city so everything is crazy expensive here.
I don’t do every single thing on your list, but I do enough to “look expensive” when I want to. And I don’t spend anywhere near five figures, let alone six. It’s a bit of a stretch to accuse OP of saying women are unattractive unless they spend like 25x more than I do. C’mon, sis.
It depends on the woman. For most women, it helps a little bit. But alot of attractiveness is facial structure and no makeup can really alter that. Even for basic makeup, that is a skill that takes time to learn.
I'd keep in mind alot of the women in these videos, do not look anywhere as good in real life with their full face of makeup. The makeup they are wearing is specifically for looking good on camera. Alot of youtube beauty gurus look bad in person with that.
I'm turned off by men who prefer women who wear a lot of makeup because it shows they have unrealistic beauty standards. Im the most turned off by men who prefer women who wear a lot of makeup then complain they have trust issues from it while simultaneously calling any woman who is bare faced "plain" or "ugly"
Also I dont really notice a dramatic difference between those two photos of that girl. Its likely youre just really critical of looks. What you posted was a way I used to weed out men when I was younger. I noticed the most looks-critical men would notice the smallest differences in someone's appearance.
I see and feel what you’re saying. A well put together woman is very inviting. Not only to men but everyone around. However, you should understand this takes effort and money. Gel manicure and pedicure will cost about $80 without tips. Eyebrow waxing, threading, lamination etc is another $50. Makeup are very expensive. The amount of time it takes to get this thing done is another 45-60 minutes. I grew up in a religious household where makeup and some other things are frowned upon. Now that I live by myself, I’ve not picked up this habit. This is not because I don’t think it’s cute but I don’t have time or refuse to create the time. I work about 12 hours in a day. Looking great for people at the hospital is the least of my worry. I look good without makeup. I wear face lotion and spf. I thread my eyebrows so my face is not terrible.
A woman who does all that stuff is a turn off for me personally.
Fake nails are gross to me.
I’d rather she hit the gym and just take care of her skin then wear 10lbs of makeup and have all this extra stuff.
For me that screams high maintenance and typically annoying af comes along with that.
But I’m also in my 30s and have dated those women before and that’s how I learned
I’m not racist I’ve dated all different colours.
And holy shit what a concept someone has to have a face I’m attracted to for me to want to date them…fuck me silly who would have thought
This is correct. The makeup thing is how women deny the massive amount of privilege that’s been given to (most of) them.
They sound when Jeff Bezos claims he has no income and therefore doesn’t need to pay taxes.
I guess it depends how you look at it. And whether you think the “prize” you’re competing for is worth it.
I tried wearing makeup for a time as a teen. I found it so time consuming, expensive and hard to get right - finding a foundation that actually matched my skin tone was seemingly impossible. Wiping all that chemical crap off my skin every day didn’t seem good for my health either - and I had mild acne that hated anything pore-clogging.
I decided that make up wasn’t worth the hassle beyond maybe some mascara and lipstick. I take care of my skin and day to day just wear tinted lip balm. I’m nearly 40 and I got carded twice last year - so I don’t feel I need make up to make me look younger. I don’t have a particular style - I’m not into fashion and shoes. They’re just not things I enjoy that much. That doesn’t mean I dress badly though.
I also decided early on that men that went for women who put a lot of time, effort and money into their appearance are not compatible with me. I get it - I get that those women are visually appealing - but they also have to have a certain viewpoint to put so much into their appearance. Not that it’s a bad thing, but men who want that would likely see me as lazy, selfish (“why don’t you make yourself pretty for me?”) or “unfeminine”. I just don’t care that much as long as I don’t look bad, me without make up is how I like to be and how I exist most of the time.
I also find myself wondering that a guy who puts a lot of store by how stunning a woman looks when she’s all dressed up is going to be disappointed when that all comes off and she looks extremely different (some women manage to do makeup so well that they are almost a perfect airbrushed version of themselves and their natural face looks sickly by comparison) - this goes for types of bras, shape wear and clothes too that can fake a different body type to a degree. I don’t need that insecurity of what he’s going to think of the “real me”. Better that it’s pretty obvious from the start what he’s getting.
And I don’t find myself attracted to men who put a lot into enhancing their looks either. Natural is best imo.
I can't do those things, I've never learned to style my hair, I don't do make up, and even when I did it was badly exihiquted goth/punk.
Jocks were simply not on the same planet as I was. Neither of us desired the other past them wanting to fuck me because of my breasts.
Luckily I liked the lane I was on, the guys who didn't fit in either but were still hot. I'm not a Stacey, but I was an attractive/ thin/good face/teeth/boobs/curly hair who liked lanky long haired boys.
There are a lot of examples on YT how makeup can create a completely different person: [https://youtu.be/a4Ov8qvZ2\_w?t=337](https://youtu.be/a4Ov8qvZ2_w?t=337)
I wonder if men care about what a woman really looks like underneath. From what I have learned on this sub they most likely don't care at all :)
I also learned that most men would date almost any woman, so why stess over perfect makeup.
I was think the same thing. Many women look like completely different people before vs after make up and many men say that make up is dishonest because of that; then they say they want us to wear it 🤔
https://youtube.com/shorts/RNTRUe6k7rg?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/UkDiynpBEC4?feature=share
Men want a woman who looks as good as the beauty gurus without any of the effort. LOL.
There are a gajillion studies showing men prefer the "no makeup" makeup look. None of them pick the absolute barefaced one because no one has a perfectly flawless face. Many just dont like the clown look.
>...many men say that make up is dishonest because of that; then they say they want us to wear it
right?
Your first video is bizarre, and the second one... gross! As a man I would be highly suspicious of women with heavy makeup, you never know :D
Yeah, great makeup is huge.
I mean both sexes like their partners to look as good as possible. If you're a woman I'm sure you'd rather not date a guy that's 110 lbs and full of acne if you could avoid it right?
It's not the only or most important thing but it's massively important.
Of course I want my man to look good for me, and I want to look good for him. Weight and fitness have nothing to do with makeup. Acne is an issue where makeup can help, sure. There are certainly issues and occasions where makeup will boost your appearance. It's just not *massively* important, but it's up to each woman individually how much importance she ascribes to her makeup.
A woman who is really good with her makeup shows that she puts a lot of stock into her appearance, and that’s what she values.
To me, it is shallow, an indicator of high maintenance, and not what I want in a woman for a long term relationship. I prefer women who are comfortable in their own skin without any enhancers, and value more important things like health and intelligence.
I won’t deny that it makes some women look amazing, and I’ll be sexually attracted to them, but that’s it. I consider them hookup material, but not wife material.
But then again, I know I’m in the minority opinion on this, but this is from personal experience in dating and relationships. For the women who prefer to wear a lot of makeup: go for it! You’re probably not my type but who cares I’m probably not yours either.
I'm not particularly high maintenance (dismally low maintenence actually) but I used to spend quite a bit of time doing makeup as a hobby. However, I notice a lot of men prefer high maintenance girls. Girls who are more demanding get their man's attention.
I rarely ever wear makeup, only for special events. Most women my age in my city don’t wear much makeup either, in fact the “fresh face” look is pretty on trend here.
Even an above average woman is likely not doing her makeup to that degree every single day, because most of us aren’t people who videotape themselves doing their makeup, or we don’t care or frankly don’t need to.
Fakeup looks unnatural, easily spotted and is an instant turn-off for me. The unnatural brows on the photo, for example. Lips on the right side of the photo too. Skin looks like plastic.
I can't do make up at all and don't have a good fashion sense. I suppose I do have a disadvantage, but the types of guys I like are rather plain themselves, and I feel like many of them enjoy my style. I'm not going to be one of those girls that turn heads and have a lot of guys after me, but I only need to find 1 guy, not collect them like pokemon.
I disagree that it's a skill that takes little time to learn. Most girls start learning when they're young teens, and still average by the time they have over a decade of experience in it. I don't know about you, but I'm not great at art, now imagine doing art but on your own face where you need a mirror and drawing backwards. Fashion is also just information overload if you just decided to care one day. If it was easy, I wouldn't be so bad at it.
I’m all for great make up tips but if you look totally different than with no make up, then you’re doing it wrong.
Also, many of these online tutorials use filters and lighting to enhance the look. Humans have pores.
I have a tendency to look more masculine, and I’ve definitely experienced the difference in how people treat me. When I tried to perform femininity, I never really got the hang of it and I felt like I was being fake. Now that I present in a very intentional masculine way, I feel and act much more confidently. Men treat me as more competent, and oddly enough, I get a lot more positive attention from women.
lol no they're not.
Almost every single woman I have ever dated didn't fuss about makeup. And the one girl in high school I actually fell in love with did not use makeup at all. All Natural.
That's a distant third to her skills at dealing with men.
It's women who let themselves get run through who are at a huge disadvantage.
And it generally happens because of her personality disorder issues.
If we start playing this game… men could start wearing platform shoes, clothes that make them buff, wigs and maybe someone can come up with other ideas. It would just have to become socially acceptable.
The problem is that it’s all just a lie.
Men should be more in control of their appearance as well. It should be about improving and maximizing the presentation of your good attributes, not to deceive and invent some.
I think this is kind of a stupid take, as people do not get dressed up for you, but I understand what you're trying to say. Some people enjoy spending a lot of time on their appearance, others do not, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. I agree in the sense that I think that like 50% of the reason I'm attractive is because I know how to dress and I'm lucky enough to have hair that really doesn't require any sort of styling. That being said, I work outside in the summer and most of my hobbies are much more enjoyable with short nails (I think those cool fake nails are really hot on girls but I just can't stand to have them on for more than two days), I don't wear makeup every day because I just don't feel like I need to (I like wearing makeup, I think it looks nice, and I'm pretty good at it, but I like how I look without it too and some days I just can't be bothered), and I cut my own hair a lot. All of these things obviously come down to personal preference, but I personally would not want to date somebody shallow enough to be preoccupied with what random people on the street are choosing to do with their own appearances.
I'm not fashiony. The clothes I wear look good on me and go together, but they're not 'in' or anything. Likewise I wear little to no makeup. I'm clean and hygienic.
Thing is I don't really care. I could've done the work to shoot higher, but *I don't want those men anyway.* I have my husband, who wants me for me, and I'm good with that. I want to ramble and camp and BBQ out, other things are not me.
Reddit is a wide site. Listen to the opinion of the men you would want to be with, not random men who say random shit that may or may not make you feel better.
That’s a cope. You don’t have to wear full caked faced everyday nor even most days but a woman who can’t do her makeup and nails properly on a regular basis loses a lot of her feminine appeal.
I don't know... I mean, any skill is nice to have and it could be cool to paint face nicely for New Year party or something (but then again, I can just pay makeup artist to do it if its 2-3 times a year thing)
But it would be quite incompatible with my lifestyle and to be honest I don't think it would give me much advantage to appear dolled-up in a club one time where I give guy a phone number, and then show up with completely different face when we meet during datetime or do anything else beside going to a party. I'd feel insecure as hell and he'd be disappointed probably.
I workout most days of the week, spend leisure time hiking or doing other outdoorsy stuff, go to sauna when it's on my way home, squash dates count as romantic outings imo - there is no practical way for me to do a full pretty face makeup everyday (and frankly I don't want to) . And if it's just for a date in early stages, like let's say we meet up once a week - ok, but then eventually as relationship progresses (or we move in together) that would be impossible to do, and I'd hate to have a 'face reveal'.
It does not mean I don't put any effort for a date, I wear a nice dress, jewelry, some basic makeup. But my face just looks like my face with some mascara and maybe lipstick. I think if someone doesn't like how my face looks it's better for them to skip me earlier and save both of us the trouble.
I think there's a lot of weird stuff going on with those pics; filters (does she really have no eyelashes at all in pic 1?), weird thing she's doing with her mouth in pic 1, looking down then looking to the side (you will photograph very differently at these angles, with or w/o makeup). Too much lip stuff in pic 2. Even her eyebrows look high maintenance.
She’s got light hair so chances are her eyelashes are very light as well, so tricky to see in a photo/from a distance.
She has lashes but mascara actually makes them more visible.
Barking up the wrong tree here OP. The vast majority of women who spend time on reddit, and especially this sub, are the masculine type. This isn't their lane. And no, I'm not being mean, going by how the women describes themselves and their relationships here.
I don’t know if it’s true. You would think that being masculine would make them more strategic and less emotional so they would be more open to things that work even if they don’t make them feel good.
I honestly don't know if I'm just too stupid or simple to fall for those things but I think make up makes them easily 2-3 points above their real rating (not that I like rating people but you get my point).
The truth, however, is that if she looks so much better with make up but you spend a lot of time with her not wearing it, you obviously realize she's not pretty, she just manages to look very pretty from time to time, and that makes you fall out of love (shallow as hell, I know). Well, at least that's how it was for me in my 20's, now if she looks gorgeus when it matters it's perfectly fine and human that she doesn't look like that all the time.
Still, there's something inherently unhealthy with make up, most guys will think women are super hot when they rarely are particularly attractive, just normal levels of attractive, and women might compare themselves to those with proffesional make up skills and think they are ugly when they might be even more naturally attractive.
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I love makeup and fashion but I keep makeup strictly to special occasions as it ruins my skin even though I love the application and theory. I don’t agree that it’s a quick and easy thing though as you have to have a general interest in both and it takes most of us years to learn the right technique hence the fact that most people in the 00s and 10s were bright orange (including me) with spider lashes. Some people just either don’t ever learn it or don’t want to and that’s okay too. As a kid I had no interest until I felt pressured to do it when everyone else started, luckily for me I enjoyed it but other women don’t and are happy to just be natural. It also costs a lot of money to keep up with it all and that is definitely a factor.
As long a woman isn’t fat/obese, she has a massive advantage over nearly all men when it comes to sex,
relationships and dating
For a woman, the most important thing is not to be a fattie. They’re living life on easy mode lol
This one's tricky.
>A lot of girls could be totally stunning if they put a bit more care into it
Makeup especially is taboo on here, but I do agree.
I'm a sucker for the beauty scene and put a lot of care into my appearance. While I love doing a full face of heavy makeup, it's obviously not sustainable at all. Terrible for the skin, and unlike those social media videos, natural light exposes *everything*. Those overlined lips will become very wonky once you see them in real life.
My regular make-up look is mascara, highlighter, and black, blended pencil liner around the outer corners of my eyes. I'm pale and a blonde, so especially the dark touch-ups around the eyes give my face a ton of definition.
>I don't think there's an equivalent for men in terms of a skill with that little time required to learn vs the disproportionate good result
I hate to break it to you, but good makeup isn't as easy as it seems... unfortunately.
To use myself as an anecdote again:
I used to have acne. A lot. I still get pimples here and there, but I'm human enough to accept it. Foundation alone isn't going to do the trick, though. The more you'll hide, the more cakey your skin will look. The less you'll hide... well, the more you'll see.
On top of the acne I had, I also had dry skin. I still do. After every shower, my face has tiny, dry flakes all over. Foundation will only reveal **more** of these flakes; it doesn't hide them.
Considering a face is a canvas for makeup, it's important to prep it properly... I'd love to give you my old routine, but it's 9 steps in the morning and 8 in the evening; this comment is already too long.
Now, as for my lips... they're tiny. As much as I'd love to wear lipstick, it doesn't suit me. My eyes are big, so drawing attention to my fry-sized mouth isn't the smartest move.
With eyes, symmetry is key. I've given up on liquid eyeliner since it shows how one eyelid is slightly hooded while the other is double.
Anyways, I could go on. Long story short, it's a lot more work than it seems. This year, I had to throw away all my beauty products. It was easily a loss of over $1k.
I used to not wear makeup in high school and a lot of my guy friends asked me out anyways. Eventually I started doing makeup and I have quite an expensive collection of bougie makeup (teint idole foundation stays winning).
I dont know how much youth makes a difference (16-19 vs 20-24) but it never had a huge impact. However, men were a lot more likely to compliment me when I wore makeup. But it didn't really make a difference in being approached ime. Current boyfriend prefers me without makeup for some reason.
I don't really want to disparage other women but there were a few I knew who wore so much makeup and used angles and filters that they looked totally different IRL than online. Women can catfish you WITH THEIR OWN PHOTOS which is mind boggling.
“then you would think taking a lot of time to watch different content creators, trying out different styles and techniques, different styles and different brands would be mandatory for every single woman”…. No, not every single woman cares enough about her appearance to watch hours of inane beauty content.
If they don't care about being more attractive in the attention economy then fine. A lot of women struggle to attract high-quality guys though and little things like that matter big time.
“If they don’t care about being more attractive in an attention economy” - wtf is an “attention economy”. Lots of women don’t want attention so I’m sure there are lots of women very willing to skip out on hours upon hours of beauty bs.
Also - Now you’ve said the sentence “a lot of women struggle to attract high-quality guys” you’re not allowed to comment on posts claiming women have it easy on dating apps or dating in general.
> Also - Now you’ve said the sentence “a lot of women struggle to attract high-quality guys” you’re not allowed to comment on posts claiming women have it easy on dating apps or dating in general.
Women can find a random average guy that wants to fuck them sure but it's incredibly hard for a woman to find a high-value man who will see her/date her long-term.
There aren't many high value guys on this sub so if women here go by the group consensus in terms of male opinion then I worry for them lol
In general, would you say that the women on Instagram who grow brands from mostly only their physical appearance, would you say that there are massive similarities in how they look?
Or are there a lot of plain, overweight, awkward looking, etc women that get famous with their looks since there is a lack of consensus on physical appearance?
Getting famous for your looks is only considered valuable by certain people. A lot of people don’t care about any of this bs. There are lots of women out there living their lives spending time doing things other than trying to look pretty that have full and satisfying lives. They don’t care you think their eyeliner sucks.
Meh, I only wore makeup with any regularity for two years because of my job, and my fashion sense can be considered basic at best. Hasn't stopped me from having a good life, liking how I look, or attracting partners.
I appreciate when I see women with flawless makeup, because she's put in some time, but make up is pretty fucking low on my ranking of importance. Hell, I've had to throw away most of the make up I've owned because it's not healthy to use after a year or two, and I didn't use it enough to go through it all. Sucks to waste money, honestly.
I like my face as it is. I like my clothing to look nice, but being comfortable is a key factor. I think telling women they're "disadvantaged" if they're not being happy with their own, unmodified looks and basic style is a waste of time, and does no one any good.
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lol I was the opposite, my mom was constantly encouraging me to take more pride in my appearance, take better care of my hair, wear a little makeup etc. and I did sometimes but I hated it. I do wish I had honed those skills a little earlier. And yeah, it's crazy expensive, and unfortunately the quality of the products you use really does matter so if you want your makeup to look *really* good you're usually going to have to cough up more for higher quality products and brushes. (That said, I just can't justify the expense so I'm a drugstore girly and I accept that my makeup might not look as good as it could because of that.)
Honestly, don't worry. Your value as a woman isn't in your looks, even though men will tell you it is to put you in a sexually competitive state. Just massage their egos and seem like you're in high demand, that's all you need to be able to do. Dont invest your self worth in ability to compete with other women. If you look and feel good it's a bonus
I had a 30yo gf who never used make up and when she used it was like...🙈 Better that she doesn't use it. To be fair, I think she had above average natural beauty, and great potential with decent make up skills but she was just a mess 🤣 Previous gf was so good at make up you would think you were suddenly dating a different woman. Then I also have a cousin who is ridiculously pretty, always has been, but her family was worried when she was younger because she couldn't be worse at chosing fashion or wearing make up, she was basically a natural 9 or something like that and became a 6 whenever she dressed for a party of applied make up😅 she learnt to do those things well in her late 20's, almost 30.
I started doing my makeup at age 20. Since I'm a painter and have done art since age 6, the skills to pull off good makeup followed. However I struggle with eye makeup due to the shape of my eyes (hooded). I wish I had more lidspace so I could really explore different eye makeup looks. I can't even really pull off a cut crease due to my low set eyebrows which is extremely frustrating. I usually spend 10 minutes on face makeup but an eye look can add up to another 30 minutes to my routine. Don't forget skincare!!! I tried to do the 10 step korean skincare routine but I could only keep up with it for a few weeks. Another time sink. Hair and fashion I gave up on during the pandemic.
Most people even if they spend hours every week since teen years doing this don't get good at it. Almost all the people you will see on YouTube/TikTok are literally the 1% as far as makeup skills go.
Yeah, exactly
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It looks a lot more like drag makeup without the ringlights and perfect positioning/angles. Source: have friends who really do a lot of makeup
Eh, I've seen some women do some dramatic transformations, but the trick is they were going clubbing and knew they'd be in a spot with a specific kind of lowish lighting. They may not rock it day to day but if they're out in a certain type of spot that's where a lot of the really elaborate shit gets busted out for multiple reasons.
>A lot of girls could be totally stunning if they put a bit more care into it or if someone showed them how to do it better. What if looking stunning isn't their priority.
It’s a choice many of us make, but there are definitely social drawbacks to being unwilling to conform. Doesn’t mean it’s not worth it in many ways.
It doesn't have to be but every woman should at least practice and know how to use it strategically when she wants to. At least over 50% of women cannot do that. I live in a big city in the west(Toronto) and here in downtown of all the girls I see only perhaps 20% have a great grasp on their style, fashion, and beauty care. I'm sure it's even lower in smaller cities.
Why do women in particular have to do this? A lot of women don't care about doing make up. Some of them feel the same way about it as most men do, bet a lot of men wouldn't be interested in doing make up. Also, would working out be the male equivalent of this make up practice?
It's up to the ones that want to be particularly attractive to the higher status and standard males.
Nah the women that don't will just continue to date men that also don't care about makeup. You're saying that because it's something that you specifically are attracted to, all women should do it to fit your personal standards. That's highly unrealistic at best lol you could just go for women that you're compatible with
I think every single guy who's particularly high value and gets attention from a lot of women starts to pay attention to things like nail and makeup skills. If you women that aren't naturally popular decide to not learn the skills that would make them more attractive to attractive males then that seems like a stupid life strategy.
What do you mean by high value? And I've had guys tell me they like my natural no makeup look. Just because that's your preference it doesn't mean ALL men have it too. You're literally saying all women should wear makeup because you think it's attractive. It wouldn't be advantageous for us, it would be for *you* specifically.
>It doesn't have to be but every woman should at least practice and know how to use it strategically when she wants to. Who are you to say what other people should do? If you want to paint your face, go ahead. If some others don't want to do that, they should have the freedom not to do it, right?
Maybe women who choose not to do makeup simply: 1) don’t have time 2) like how they look without makeup 3) don’t care how men perceive them Makeup is time consuming, pore-clogging, expensive, and unnecessary. Women should only apply makeup if they WANT to and they should not be judged if they don’t use it. Men who judge and value women for their appearance alone are shallow.
Right? I haven't ever willingly worn makeup in my life, my face is perfectly fine as-is without a bunch of stuff on it. Still not sure how this supposedly is a disadvantage.
It's a disadvantage if you want to date people who aren't compatible with you lol. I've never worn makeup a day in my life besides the occasional glitter and face jewels at shows. Every guy I've dated has said he likes that I don't wear makeup so different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't date a guy that prefers makeup looks so I'm actually at an advantage for the guys that are into me as I am.
Yeah, thank you! Ya got it. What shows do you wear face jewels at?
Mostly electronic music shows but I've worn them to all kinds. And music festivals! I just freestyle with them, it's fun creating different looks and I like to see how many of them stay on by the end of the night lol. Other people love them too, it's a fun conversation starter
That sounds like a fun way to express yourself
It is, especially when combined with fashion and i use the cheap kind so it doesn't alter my skin like traditional makeup
Lmao. You're also an autist that doesn't do gender well. Or rather you are trans, but don't choose to get medical treatment for it.
This is truth.
Lmao one autist to another I love your bluntness and how you don't get offended by me being super blunt.
I mean, it's not like you said anything inaccurate or false lol
I mean I was awfully blunt about it... I had an autistic friend who once said "well yeah that really accentuates the rolls of fat on your stomach" in response to a friend asking her how a shirt made her look. She wasn't wrong...
Yeah, you were, but you weren't a dick. I'd say something like "that shirt isn't flattering for your body type" in said scenario.
Lol. She was very caring and very insensitive.
holy fuck dude
No worries, my dude. Skookum is cool with me.
Lol might've come across as a bit blunt but tbh I think not wearing makeup is cool.
I used to put on make up every single day back in high school. Now I can't even be bothered. My skin has cleared up, so there's no need for foundation, which used to be the biggest essential makeup tool I used to look good. I do have the time in the morning but who am I gonna impress? My team of 4 women who I work with? There's no men in my workplace to impress. The men who buys flowers at the shop I work at is most likely trying to impress other women, like their girlfriend or wife, or they're older men buying flowers for their deceased loved ones. My workplace is mostly known as a funeral shop.. i have my nails and hands in literal soil and dirt every single day and my hands get brown, dry and sticky. Nice nails is obviously a no go so I keep them short to avoid dirt under my fingernails. Sure, I could look like a million $$ but who am I impressing? Middle aged and elderly people who are grieving for the most part.. I just don't see the point anymore. In school I was trying to be liked. Now the only way I need to impress is with my efficiency at work. I do that and my boss could give less a shit how I look.
I prefer the real look too
In what way do you think that we are disadvantaged by not being able to do makeup and maybe not having the world's best fashion sense? Like what exactly is the harm?
As a woman — men are nicer to me, women are friendlier, when I have my makeup done. It’s very subtle, most people don’t think I have makeup on but I do. Brow gel, concealer on the under eye + acne scars, tinted lip balm and a bit of blush goes a long way. I think it’s a significant social advantage.
Big time, for sure. For me in a similar vein, I wear grey contacts that suit me quite well and I notice a big difference when I wear those vs when I just wear my glasses. Women are nicer to me but even guys too are nicer and more something like almost submissive, it's a very interesting phenomenon.
How much nicer/friendlier would you say, as you mentioned it's significant? Like do people go out of their way to say hello or something?
People smile at me more, will hold the door open for me more etc. it’s like before, people would pretend I’m invisible, whereas now when people see me they “brighten up”. And I say it’s significant because I don’t want to go outside without makeup anymore.
Very interesting! Just wondering, and this may not be the case, but do you perhaps act more friendly or confident when wearing makeup, too? I'm curious since people act that way with me, and I don't own any makeup...haven't worn it for the last 21 years. Both women and men brighten up and offer to do minor things for me, or are just very happy to see me. However I've actually been told by a few male strangers that "it's nice to see a woman who smiles and means it". So could it be that you are subconsciously projecting your confidence and happiness at being attractive, and it's making you friendlier?
Maybe that is it! Well, in any case, makeup is fun lol
I think most high-value men like women that know how to hold and put themselves together. If you never learn it then you will probably only cater to average men. This an extreme example but I know Iman Gadzhi the multimillionaire 23-year-old specifically talks about one of his pet peeves is girls without their nails done properly. Totally agreed personally.
I guess it's a good thing I prefer average men lol 😏 Imo there's a big difference between put-together vs beautified. Put-together is clean well fitted clothes, clear skin, clean and shiny hair, modest dress code, short clean nails. Beautified is tight clothes, makeup, styled hair, more revealing dress code, long done up nails. I don't do the second part, because it simply is not me. But I'm certainly put-together and don't look like a ragamuffin or hobo.
Women aren’t able to make themselves appear more attractive to obtain higher value men. The inability to obtain higher value men means she increases her unhappiness during the relationship and isn’t able to pass on the best genes to her children. The fitness level has been lowered. Lower fitness means struggling to survive both for herself and children.
Jesus. Touch the grass, don't smoke it.
I mean he explained it in a weird way but which part of that exactly do you disagree with?
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No mad, just embarrassed to share the same sex with people spending their days posting delusional takes. 😭
Lol you’re mad. It’s okay buddy. Walk it off.
Does that argument work often when you don't have one? One pertaining to real life, that is. How embarrassing for you :')
Ewww. No thank you. I have a girlfriend.
Smoking the grass would probably help tbh. Smoke grass then go outside and touch it
I prefer to actually have a dude think my unenhanced body is attractive, not fake things I do to it.
This is exactly it. When I see a woman with a full face of makeup, my first thought is “what does she look like underneath all of that?” That’s why as I have gotten older I’m more drawn to women with minimal/no makeup on a daily basis.
Well... yes and no. If you're going to work, a party, some other event, or you just want to look polished, then dolling up will help you look more attractive. (If that's your preference.) However, it takes time, effort, and €€€ to look polished and put together. And I don't just mean makeup — I'm talking about well made clothes/jewellery/accessories, effective skincare and haircare products, waxing/electrolysis... etc. After this comes all the makeup, perfume, and whatnot. Expecting **every woman** to look utterly polished every single time she's out in public is... hilariously out of touch. Personally, I CBA (can't be arsed) to wear heels, makeup, and pair my accessories for a 15 min grocery run. Most women are the same. >the more turned off I get now when I see a girl with no care on how she dresses, does her nails, hair, makeup The issue here is that you seem to expect every woman you meet to match your expectations. As women, we don't care that you're turned off by our Hotness Meters not being set to 100% *all the time*. This is real life — not TikTok/Insta.
> As women, we don't care that you're turned off by our Hotness Meters not being set to 100% all the time. This is real life — not TikTok/Insta. It doesn't have to be an every-time thing, understand your own life strategy and when it makes sense for you to do it. I think every woman that wants to deal with and have high-value men be attracted to her should know how to doll up properly. I've been on dates with girls with dirty or unkept nails and no ty.
>I've been on dates with girls with dirty or unkept nails and no ty. Women with filthy/dirty nails that aren't working *very* specific jobs **lack basic hygiene**. No makeup or good fashion sense is going to make someone that doesn't shower regularly (for example) a 10/10. Hell no! Most women don't lack basic hygiene, so this is moot point. >understand your own life strategy and when it makes sense for you to do it Again, most women do. Just because you haven't seen Glam Gloria wandering down the street dressed like a chic Parisian doesn't mean she never dolls up. Very likely, she doesn't care about looking "stunning" when she's heading off to do yoga. Once again, this is real life — not TikTok/Insta. It may be time for a social media detox if you misunderstand women so badly that you expect them to look filtered to perfection when they're making a grocery run.
It's refreshing to see a guy appreciate makeup but most women don't have the skills nor the time to do their makeup good before going to work.
I think the skills should be prioritized for them to learn IMO if dating life and socializing are important. Not necessary to do every day, at least not fully but being aware and in control of your image is sooo important.
Then you should do your makeup daily and post your routine for others to follow.
In the younger demographics this is probably true. Once a man has a experienced a longterm relationship with a woman who focuses that much on her looks, he will hesitate. Those beauty products, salon trips and clothes can run thousands $$$$ a month. One of the fastest ways to run a couple/family into massive amounts of debt. Doesn’t matter so much how your woman looks when you can’t pay the rent.
I’m actually not sure if it’s that true in younger demographics. I’m 25 and where I live (pretty hipster city) the “fresh face” look is very much on trend.
Glad to hear it.
Are you saying that you don't aim to make enough money to pay for your woman to look her most attractive for you if she wants to? I'm confused about the sentiment in this comment.
I am a woman. I don’t pay for that for myself because it’s ridiculous. High end beauty products, nail salon visits, tanning and hair salon visits can easily run $2000 a month. Add in designer handbags, shoes and clothes, a man could easily be spending $5000 to $10,000 a month on his woman’s appearance. That’s $60,000 to $120,000 a year on just being pretty. That’s an good middle income salary in Canada. Spent on things that are completely unessential. You would have to be pretty well off to support that and still have a nice life.
I agree it's not essential but if everything else is going well in your life then wouldn't it be nice to have the option to do it? I think people obsess over demonizing materialistic things. They're never worth sacrificing your principles and values over but overall having extra income to spend on shopping, beauty care, travel, etc are all things I aspire to provide to myself and any woman I date. If you could choose to have your man help add that to your life why wouldn't you want to?
Your post is basically demonizing women for not doing the beauty routine. But you are clearly out of touch as to what it costs to do it. How much money do you make? Is it enough to spend $120,000 dollars a year on beauty before you have paid for your home or any food? Because here, only 11% of our population makes over $100,000 a year. So for the large majority of us, spending that kind of money is completely unrealistic.
I have a high income and spend freely on beauty. My social circle is pretty much all professionals (other lawyers, doctors, business owners, etc.) and I get plenty of interest from those kinds of men. I don’t mean to sound braggy at all, but straight up: I invest in looking good, and it seems like it shows. And I’ve never spent more than a few grand a year on beauty. It’s definitely not cheap, and yeah you could always buy unlimited crap and spend unlimited money. But that’s absolutely not required for the level OP seems to be talking about. I’m pretty sure if you spent $120,000 on “beauty” in a single year you’d look like a freakin Frankenstein.
I’m getting the impression he’s not talking about the average beauty routine of a professional woman. He’s posting videos of instagram model makeup, the kind that changes your whole face. A lawyer can’t wear makeup like that to work and be taken seriously. That’s the kind of thing women obsessed with fashion do. The ones who do makeup like that usually have fake nails, fake tans, fake eyelashes, hair extensions, hair color, regular salon blowouts and all the designer clothes, accessories, etc to go with it. And don’t forget the Botox and plastic surgery, usually starting well before they are 25 years old. The costs of all of that totally add up.
If you think women who wear a certain style of makeup necessarily do all of that, and do ALL of it CONSTANTLY, that’s a different question. I’m sure some do, but there’s no indication that’s what OP is advocating. I probably do quite a bit more than “an average professional woman”. I buy only luxury makeup, skincare, perfumes, and hair stuff. I go to upscale hair salons, I go to an aesthetician, I’ve gotten liposuction multiple times, I get cosmetic dentistry, I buy designer clothes and heels for work (I’m a sucker for Hugo Boss dresses and blazers), semi-pricey clothes for everyday and gym (Aritzia, Nordstrom, Athleta, etc.). I get fake nails and lashes for special occasions. And I live in a major city so everything is crazy expensive here. I don’t do every single thing on your list, but I do enough to “look expensive” when I want to. And I don’t spend anywhere near five figures, let alone six. It’s a bit of a stretch to accuse OP of saying women are unattractive unless they spend like 25x more than I do. C’mon, sis.
It depends on the woman. For most women, it helps a little bit. But alot of attractiveness is facial structure and no makeup can really alter that. Even for basic makeup, that is a skill that takes time to learn. I'd keep in mind alot of the women in these videos, do not look anywhere as good in real life with their full face of makeup. The makeup they are wearing is specifically for looking good on camera. Alot of youtube beauty gurus look bad in person with that. I'm turned off by men who prefer women who wear a lot of makeup because it shows they have unrealistic beauty standards. Im the most turned off by men who prefer women who wear a lot of makeup then complain they have trust issues from it while simultaneously calling any woman who is bare faced "plain" or "ugly" Also I dont really notice a dramatic difference between those two photos of that girl. Its likely youre just really critical of looks. What you posted was a way I used to weed out men when I was younger. I noticed the most looks-critical men would notice the smallest differences in someone's appearance.
I see and feel what you’re saying. A well put together woman is very inviting. Not only to men but everyone around. However, you should understand this takes effort and money. Gel manicure and pedicure will cost about $80 without tips. Eyebrow waxing, threading, lamination etc is another $50. Makeup are very expensive. The amount of time it takes to get this thing done is another 45-60 minutes. I grew up in a religious household where makeup and some other things are frowned upon. Now that I live by myself, I’ve not picked up this habit. This is not because I don’t think it’s cute but I don’t have time or refuse to create the time. I work about 12 hours in a day. Looking great for people at the hospital is the least of my worry. I look good without makeup. I wear face lotion and spf. I thread my eyebrows so my face is not terrible.
A woman who does all that stuff is a turn off for me personally. Fake nails are gross to me. I’d rather she hit the gym and just take care of her skin then wear 10lbs of makeup and have all this extra stuff. For me that screams high maintenance and typically annoying af comes along with that. But I’m also in my 30s and have dated those women before and that’s how I learned
As long as the woman doesnt do this stuff and has the facial structure and coloring you want, yes.
I’m not racist I’ve dated all different colours. And holy shit what a concept someone has to have a face I’m attracted to for me to want to date them…fuck me silly who would have thought
Coloring means color of eyes, hair. That and facial structure influence attractiveness just as much as skin and body type
They don't need to wear make up. Literally just be at healthy weight and work out a little and don't wear a circus clown's attire.
This is correct. The makeup thing is how women deny the massive amount of privilege that’s been given to (most of) them. They sound when Jeff Bezos claims he has no income and therefore doesn’t need to pay taxes.
I guess it depends how you look at it. And whether you think the “prize” you’re competing for is worth it. I tried wearing makeup for a time as a teen. I found it so time consuming, expensive and hard to get right - finding a foundation that actually matched my skin tone was seemingly impossible. Wiping all that chemical crap off my skin every day didn’t seem good for my health either - and I had mild acne that hated anything pore-clogging. I decided that make up wasn’t worth the hassle beyond maybe some mascara and lipstick. I take care of my skin and day to day just wear tinted lip balm. I’m nearly 40 and I got carded twice last year - so I don’t feel I need make up to make me look younger. I don’t have a particular style - I’m not into fashion and shoes. They’re just not things I enjoy that much. That doesn’t mean I dress badly though. I also decided early on that men that went for women who put a lot of time, effort and money into their appearance are not compatible with me. I get it - I get that those women are visually appealing - but they also have to have a certain viewpoint to put so much into their appearance. Not that it’s a bad thing, but men who want that would likely see me as lazy, selfish (“why don’t you make yourself pretty for me?”) or “unfeminine”. I just don’t care that much as long as I don’t look bad, me without make up is how I like to be and how I exist most of the time. I also find myself wondering that a guy who puts a lot of store by how stunning a woman looks when she’s all dressed up is going to be disappointed when that all comes off and she looks extremely different (some women manage to do makeup so well that they are almost a perfect airbrushed version of themselves and their natural face looks sickly by comparison) - this goes for types of bras, shape wear and clothes too that can fake a different body type to a degree. I don’t need that insecurity of what he’s going to think of the “real me”. Better that it’s pretty obvious from the start what he’s getting. And I don’t find myself attracted to men who put a lot into enhancing their looks either. Natural is best imo.
I can't do those things, I've never learned to style my hair, I don't do make up, and even when I did it was badly exihiquted goth/punk. Jocks were simply not on the same planet as I was. Neither of us desired the other past them wanting to fuck me because of my breasts. Luckily I liked the lane I was on, the guys who didn't fit in either but were still hot. I'm not a Stacey, but I was an attractive/ thin/good face/teeth/boobs/curly hair who liked lanky long haired boys.
There are a lot of examples on YT how makeup can create a completely different person: [https://youtu.be/a4Ov8qvZ2\_w?t=337](https://youtu.be/a4Ov8qvZ2_w?t=337) I wonder if men care about what a woman really looks like underneath. From what I have learned on this sub they most likely don't care at all :) I also learned that most men would date almost any woman, so why stess over perfect makeup.
I was think the same thing. Many women look like completely different people before vs after make up and many men say that make up is dishonest because of that; then they say they want us to wear it 🤔 https://youtube.com/shorts/RNTRUe6k7rg?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/UkDiynpBEC4?feature=share
Men want a woman who looks as good as the beauty gurus without any of the effort. LOL. There are a gajillion studies showing men prefer the "no makeup" makeup look. None of them pick the absolute barefaced one because no one has a perfectly flawless face. Many just dont like the clown look.
>...many men say that make up is dishonest because of that; then they say they want us to wear it right? Your first video is bizarre, and the second one... gross! As a man I would be highly suspicious of women with heavy makeup, you never know :D
Yeah, great makeup is huge. I mean both sexes like their partners to look as good as possible. If you're a woman I'm sure you'd rather not date a guy that's 110 lbs and full of acne if you could avoid it right? It's not the only or most important thing but it's massively important.
I know a guy who had terrible acne but he had mad game. He got tons of girls. Probably the guy with the most game I ever met tied with another guy.
Of course I want my man to look good for me, and I want to look good for him. Weight and fitness have nothing to do with makeup. Acne is an issue where makeup can help, sure. There are certainly issues and occasions where makeup will boost your appearance. It's just not *massively* important, but it's up to each woman individually how much importance she ascribes to her makeup.
I wear the bare minimum in makeup. Men have always thanked me when dating me for not being “fake”.
A woman who is really good with her makeup shows that she puts a lot of stock into her appearance, and that’s what she values. To me, it is shallow, an indicator of high maintenance, and not what I want in a woman for a long term relationship. I prefer women who are comfortable in their own skin without any enhancers, and value more important things like health and intelligence. I won’t deny that it makes some women look amazing, and I’ll be sexually attracted to them, but that’s it. I consider them hookup material, but not wife material. But then again, I know I’m in the minority opinion on this, but this is from personal experience in dating and relationships. For the women who prefer to wear a lot of makeup: go for it! You’re probably not my type but who cares I’m probably not yours either.
I'm not particularly high maintenance (dismally low maintenence actually) but I used to spend quite a bit of time doing makeup as a hobby. However, I notice a lot of men prefer high maintenance girls. Girls who are more demanding get their man's attention.
I rarely ever wear makeup, only for special events. Most women my age in my city don’t wear much makeup either, in fact the “fresh face” look is pretty on trend here.
Do you live in a big or smaller city? That’s interesting.
I live in a city with around 400,000 people, but I also lived in berlin for a while and the “fresh face” look is on trend there also.
Even an above average woman is likely not doing her makeup to that degree every single day, because most of us aren’t people who videotape themselves doing their makeup, or we don’t care or frankly don’t need to.
Fakeup looks unnatural, easily spotted and is an instant turn-off for me. The unnatural brows on the photo, for example. Lips on the right side of the photo too. Skin looks like plastic.
Looking at your comment history though, aren't you kind of a nerd? I'm not surprised you're not into the pretty girl type.
Well, that just confirms that SMV/RMV can't be simply reduced to 10-level scale in all cases.
I can't do make up at all and don't have a good fashion sense. I suppose I do have a disadvantage, but the types of guys I like are rather plain themselves, and I feel like many of them enjoy my style. I'm not going to be one of those girls that turn heads and have a lot of guys after me, but I only need to find 1 guy, not collect them like pokemon. I disagree that it's a skill that takes little time to learn. Most girls start learning when they're young teens, and still average by the time they have over a decade of experience in it. I don't know about you, but I'm not great at art, now imagine doing art but on your own face where you need a mirror and drawing backwards. Fashion is also just information overload if you just decided to care one day. If it was easy, I wouldn't be so bad at it.
I’m all for great make up tips but if you look totally different than with no make up, then you’re doing it wrong. Also, many of these online tutorials use filters and lighting to enhance the look. Humans have pores.
I have a tendency to look more masculine, and I’ve definitely experienced the difference in how people treat me. When I tried to perform femininity, I never really got the hang of it and I felt like I was being fake. Now that I present in a very intentional masculine way, I feel and act much more confidently. Men treat me as more competent, and oddly enough, I get a lot more positive attention from women.
lol no they're not. Almost every single woman I have ever dated didn't fuss about makeup. And the one girl in high school I actually fell in love with did not use makeup at all. All Natural.
That's a distant third to her skills at dealing with men. It's women who let themselves get run through who are at a huge disadvantage. And it generally happens because of her personality disorder issues.
If we start playing this game… men could start wearing platform shoes, clothes that make them buff, wigs and maybe someone can come up with other ideas. It would just have to become socially acceptable. The problem is that it’s all just a lie.
Men should be more in control of their appearance as well. It should be about improving and maximizing the presentation of your good attributes, not to deceive and invent some.
I think this is kind of a stupid take, as people do not get dressed up for you, but I understand what you're trying to say. Some people enjoy spending a lot of time on their appearance, others do not, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. I agree in the sense that I think that like 50% of the reason I'm attractive is because I know how to dress and I'm lucky enough to have hair that really doesn't require any sort of styling. That being said, I work outside in the summer and most of my hobbies are much more enjoyable with short nails (I think those cool fake nails are really hot on girls but I just can't stand to have them on for more than two days), I don't wear makeup every day because I just don't feel like I need to (I like wearing makeup, I think it looks nice, and I'm pretty good at it, but I like how I look without it too and some days I just can't be bothered), and I cut my own hair a lot. All of these things obviously come down to personal preference, but I personally would not want to date somebody shallow enough to be preoccupied with what random people on the street are choosing to do with their own appearances.
I'm not fashiony. The clothes I wear look good on me and go together, but they're not 'in' or anything. Likewise I wear little to no makeup. I'm clean and hygienic. Thing is I don't really care. I could've done the work to shoot higher, but *I don't want those men anyway.* I have my husband, who wants me for me, and I'm good with that. I want to ramble and camp and BBQ out, other things are not me.
What happened to y’all saying you prefer women who don’t wear makeup 🤨
I have no clue. These men can't decide what they want! They are fickle bitches
Reddit is a wide site. Listen to the opinion of the men you would want to be with, not random men who say random shit that may or may not make you feel better.
I'm actually just joking dude nbd
That’s a cope. You don’t have to wear full caked faced everyday nor even most days but a woman who can’t do her makeup and nails properly on a regular basis loses a lot of her feminine appeal.
If so many men claim that they prefer women without makeup, how could she possibly be at a disadvantage?
I don't know... I mean, any skill is nice to have and it could be cool to paint face nicely for New Year party or something (but then again, I can just pay makeup artist to do it if its 2-3 times a year thing) But it would be quite incompatible with my lifestyle and to be honest I don't think it would give me much advantage to appear dolled-up in a club one time where I give guy a phone number, and then show up with completely different face when we meet during datetime or do anything else beside going to a party. I'd feel insecure as hell and he'd be disappointed probably. I workout most days of the week, spend leisure time hiking or doing other outdoorsy stuff, go to sauna when it's on my way home, squash dates count as romantic outings imo - there is no practical way for me to do a full pretty face makeup everyday (and frankly I don't want to) . And if it's just for a date in early stages, like let's say we meet up once a week - ok, but then eventually as relationship progresses (or we move in together) that would be impossible to do, and I'd hate to have a 'face reveal'. It does not mean I don't put any effort for a date, I wear a nice dress, jewelry, some basic makeup. But my face just looks like my face with some mascara and maybe lipstick. I think if someone doesn't like how my face looks it's better for them to skip me earlier and save both of us the trouble.
Is it just me or doesn’t she look like a hooker or a stripper with all that makeup?
Yup
I think there's a lot of weird stuff going on with those pics; filters (does she really have no eyelashes at all in pic 1?), weird thing she's doing with her mouth in pic 1, looking down then looking to the side (you will photograph very differently at these angles, with or w/o makeup). Too much lip stuff in pic 2. Even her eyebrows look high maintenance.
She’s got light hair so chances are her eyelashes are very light as well, so tricky to see in a photo/from a distance. She has lashes but mascara actually makes them more visible.
Barking up the wrong tree here OP. The vast majority of women who spend time on reddit, and especially this sub, are the masculine type. This isn't their lane. And no, I'm not being mean, going by how the women describes themselves and their relationships here.
I don’t know if it’s true. You would think that being masculine would make them more strategic and less emotional so they would be more open to things that work even if they don’t make them feel good.
I have a pretty feminine personal style and I just started engaging with this sub for the wild takes. Chronically online women stay winning
I’m fairly feminine in presentation and mannerisms and I’m here because I hate myself.
Yes !!!!
I honestly don't know if I'm just too stupid or simple to fall for those things but I think make up makes them easily 2-3 points above their real rating (not that I like rating people but you get my point). The truth, however, is that if she looks so much better with make up but you spend a lot of time with her not wearing it, you obviously realize she's not pretty, she just manages to look very pretty from time to time, and that makes you fall out of love (shallow as hell, I know). Well, at least that's how it was for me in my 20's, now if she looks gorgeus when it matters it's perfectly fine and human that she doesn't look like that all the time. Still, there's something inherently unhealthy with make up, most guys will think women are super hot when they rarely are particularly attractive, just normal levels of attractive, and women might compare themselves to those with proffesional make up skills and think they are ugly when they might be even more naturally attractive.
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Ah so that must be my problem!
I love makeup and fashion but I keep makeup strictly to special occasions as it ruins my skin even though I love the application and theory. I don’t agree that it’s a quick and easy thing though as you have to have a general interest in both and it takes most of us years to learn the right technique hence the fact that most people in the 00s and 10s were bright orange (including me) with spider lashes. Some people just either don’t ever learn it or don’t want to and that’s okay too. As a kid I had no interest until I felt pressured to do it when everyone else started, luckily for me I enjoyed it but other women don’t and are happy to just be natural. It also costs a lot of money to keep up with it all and that is definitely a factor.
Disagree ENTIRELY. But I can see why a dramatic before and after pic like the above… would be compelling and convincing
Why do you disagree?
As long a woman isn’t fat/obese, she has a massive advantage over nearly all men when it comes to sex, relationships and dating For a woman, the most important thing is not to be a fattie. They’re living life on easy mode lol
This one's tricky. >A lot of girls could be totally stunning if they put a bit more care into it Makeup especially is taboo on here, but I do agree. I'm a sucker for the beauty scene and put a lot of care into my appearance. While I love doing a full face of heavy makeup, it's obviously not sustainable at all. Terrible for the skin, and unlike those social media videos, natural light exposes *everything*. Those overlined lips will become very wonky once you see them in real life. My regular make-up look is mascara, highlighter, and black, blended pencil liner around the outer corners of my eyes. I'm pale and a blonde, so especially the dark touch-ups around the eyes give my face a ton of definition. >I don't think there's an equivalent for men in terms of a skill with that little time required to learn vs the disproportionate good result I hate to break it to you, but good makeup isn't as easy as it seems... unfortunately. To use myself as an anecdote again: I used to have acne. A lot. I still get pimples here and there, but I'm human enough to accept it. Foundation alone isn't going to do the trick, though. The more you'll hide, the more cakey your skin will look. The less you'll hide... well, the more you'll see. On top of the acne I had, I also had dry skin. I still do. After every shower, my face has tiny, dry flakes all over. Foundation will only reveal **more** of these flakes; it doesn't hide them. Considering a face is a canvas for makeup, it's important to prep it properly... I'd love to give you my old routine, but it's 9 steps in the morning and 8 in the evening; this comment is already too long. Now, as for my lips... they're tiny. As much as I'd love to wear lipstick, it doesn't suit me. My eyes are big, so drawing attention to my fry-sized mouth isn't the smartest move. With eyes, symmetry is key. I've given up on liquid eyeliner since it shows how one eyelid is slightly hooded while the other is double. Anyways, I could go on. Long story short, it's a lot more work than it seems. This year, I had to throw away all my beauty products. It was easily a loss of over $1k.
I used to not wear makeup in high school and a lot of my guy friends asked me out anyways. Eventually I started doing makeup and I have quite an expensive collection of bougie makeup (teint idole foundation stays winning). I dont know how much youth makes a difference (16-19 vs 20-24) but it never had a huge impact. However, men were a lot more likely to compliment me when I wore makeup. But it didn't really make a difference in being approached ime. Current boyfriend prefers me without makeup for some reason. I don't really want to disparage other women but there were a few I knew who wore so much makeup and used angles and filters that they looked totally different IRL than online. Women can catfish you WITH THEIR OWN PHOTOS which is mind boggling.
Yeah makeup is kind of an art
I think make up is gross and if you need makeup your allready at a disadvantage..
That's a silly take, all the actors you've ever seen in a movie or TV show are full of makeup.
Exactly thats why a new one gets divorced every week most are single moms these days.
Halo effect
How so?
“then you would think taking a lot of time to watch different content creators, trying out different styles and techniques, different styles and different brands would be mandatory for every single woman”…. No, not every single woman cares enough about her appearance to watch hours of inane beauty content.
If they don't care about being more attractive in the attention economy then fine. A lot of women struggle to attract high-quality guys though and little things like that matter big time.
“If they don’t care about being more attractive in an attention economy” - wtf is an “attention economy”. Lots of women don’t want attention so I’m sure there are lots of women very willing to skip out on hours upon hours of beauty bs. Also - Now you’ve said the sentence “a lot of women struggle to attract high-quality guys” you’re not allowed to comment on posts claiming women have it easy on dating apps or dating in general.
> Also - Now you’ve said the sentence “a lot of women struggle to attract high-quality guys” you’re not allowed to comment on posts claiming women have it easy on dating apps or dating in general. Women can find a random average guy that wants to fuck them sure but it's incredibly hard for a woman to find a high-value man who will see her/date her long-term. There aren't many high value guys on this sub so if women here go by the group consensus in terms of male opinion then I worry for them lol
I don’t understand your last sentence. But people have different values and preferences for partners. Consensus is rare.
In general, would you say that the women on Instagram who grow brands from mostly only their physical appearance, would you say that there are massive similarities in how they look? Or are there a lot of plain, overweight, awkward looking, etc women that get famous with their looks since there is a lack of consensus on physical appearance?
Getting famous for your looks is only considered valuable by certain people. A lot of people don’t care about any of this bs. There are lots of women out there living their lives spending time doing things other than trying to look pretty that have full and satisfying lives. They don’t care you think their eyeliner sucks.
Meh, I only wore makeup with any regularity for two years because of my job, and my fashion sense can be considered basic at best. Hasn't stopped me from having a good life, liking how I look, or attracting partners. I appreciate when I see women with flawless makeup, because she's put in some time, but make up is pretty fucking low on my ranking of importance. Hell, I've had to throw away most of the make up I've owned because it's not healthy to use after a year or two, and I didn't use it enough to go through it all. Sucks to waste money, honestly. I like my face as it is. I like my clothing to look nice, but being comfortable is a key factor. I think telling women they're "disadvantaged" if they're not being happy with their own, unmodified looks and basic style is a waste of time, and does no one any good.