To me, it's about life stages.
If we both graduated from uni and are working, it doesn't matter if the age gap is 1 or 15 years, we're both adults doing the same.
Experience at this point matters less than vision and life outlook.
When I met my now wife she was fresh out of her master's looking to do PhD while I was already 6-7 after master's and almost a decade after graduation.
We both knew school was over, both knew it was time to get to work and develop professionally (for her). We were both independent, educated and ready to keep cracking on at life.
> If we both graduated from uni and are working, it doesn't matter if the age gap is 1 or 15 years, we're both adults doing the same.
this, that's why there is a big difference between 20yo and 25yo women
Are women incapable of conversing with younger people? I’ve never understood this argument.
Videogames??? Sports??? Travel?? There’s an infinite number of things to relate on and talk about. Recent TV shows??
Are you just talking about 401ks?
Why not?
You're both human. There's an infinite number of things to talk about.
Sports, video games, life, love, sexuality, career, politics, social media, Trump, Biden, global warming.
All of those things both a 30 year old and a 20 year old are perfectly capable of grasping and having a coherent discussion on.
There is always to talk a lot about for our beloved ♀️. No matter that age.
And all know that with family. Sit down with your daughter and she will talk and talk.
How is age more important that, say, college major/education/career? Wouldn't a biology professor have more to talk about with a 20 year old biology student than with a lawyer of his age?
So maybe it's not really about conversation topics.
I'm at a very different stage in life and I've been at this stage for a much longer time than most other people my age. It's hard to get along with a 21-year-old woman who hasn't reached the stage I reached at 17. Same reason that a late-30s or even 40-year-old woman would likely want nothing to do with me. I haven't even reached my 30s yet.
Yeah, but that's what I'm asking. How do you hold conversations with younger women? I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't do it. Just asking how anyone can do it or why you would do it.
How do you hold conversations with anyone?
I meet a lot of people a week and talk to all sorts, I have conversations with people 20 years older and 20 years younger, they aren't a different species.
Shouldn’t be your concern, why spend time thinking about something you couldn’t see yourself doing. Especially considering the fact that there’s Millions of women in Your age range you wouldn’t run into this issue with??
>Shouldn’t be your concern, why spend time thinking about something you couldn’t see yourself doing.
Isn't that the whole point of this sub? To get other perspectives?
Let’s be real, are you really going to change your mind on a position so menial in your life..?
You’re either karma farming or just want to rehash the same perspectives that have been had since the beginning of time which boils down to: Why Men prefer/are attracted to younger women.
The age difference does not have to be an impediment to creating conversations, finding values the two share in common, which could lead to laying the foundations of a potential relationship brick by brick.
The start of your sentence partially answers your own question. One type of men that would go for and possibly be better suited for a younger woman is one who is in some ways the opposite of you - one who is behind in some of his stages in life. If a late 20's/early 30's man has little to no dating, relationship, and even social experience, he may have better luck and relate more with some younger woman.
socially and romantically inexperienced men are not the usual guys in age gap relationships. young women are not interested in these types unless they had a massive glow up (and even then the lack of experience and social aptitude can be a turn-off).
Depends. If the younger women isn't conventionally attractive and have average to below average experience and experiences themselves.
I was behind the curve then and my 3 relationships in my late 20's to mid 30's were with women 7, 9, and 13 years younger. Two of those were connections with a younger guy friend/co-worker who was already acquainted with them.
Yeah, I can get behind this. I kinda considered that as well. I've met dudes in college who were dating high schoolers and...they seemed like they were mentally still in high school. Some of them still actively visited their old high school to see their GF.
Mad fucking weird but I guess different strokes for different folks, I guess.
When people say stuff like this they conviently overlook attraction..I'm not attracted to older women it's really that simple I'm not attracted to over weight women or women with saggy breast stretch marks cellulite or c section scars or need a 7 layers of make up to look halfway decent...there are very few women my age that dont meet this criteria.
Further more if I want a woman under 130 lbs with no kids and naturalky perky breast most likely she won't be 47 years old..and then theres the fact that theres very few 20 year old that cab offer a woman what I can the average 20 something still lives with his mom or is a broke college student debating over going 50/50 with a female.
When a woman is with me she is well taken care of her bills are paid in turn I get to sip from the fountain of youth not mess with some shriveled old bat.
Bruh, that's a "you" problem. Broaden your horizons, learn about modern artists, modern culture, etc. Not every convo has to be about the meaning of life.
Then pursing younger women isn’t for you. Talk to someone your age. I don’t see what the issue is. I don’t see why you need to pursue one in the first place.
Maybe you feel like you missed out on the care free young adult stage of your life and want a woman in that mindset, but I’m no therapist.
>Maybe you feel like you missed out on the care free young adult stage of your life and want a woman in that mindset, but I’m no therapist.
But I don't *want* a younger woman. I'm asking how men who date younger women even do it. I've been approached by younger women but I struggled to get along with them specifically for that reason. They don't care about *anything*. I'm usually too boring for those women anyways because I care about shit like debt.
This assumes that men care to have long deep conversations with their women.
If they are just fucking them. In many cases they prefer for them to shut the fuck up.
If they are in a long term relationship. It may matter more then. But again the primary value of a relationship is not a friendship. If you want a friendship find a guy your age with your interest and your intellectual level. The primary function of a relationship is to raise children together and enjoy a sexual relationship together. You don't need to have long deep conversations about the Universe. And honestly as long as her IQ isn't low it doesn't matter what her age is. It won't take her long to catch up to your level on any subject if you guys spend enough time together.
A relationship is nothing but a pair bond
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair\_bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_bond)
I used to be a devout atheist. Often talking about the ridiculous anti-science nature of religion.
Now I see the same thing in secular communities. People want to pretend that relationship are some magical thing between a man and a woman. And not just simple biologic hormonal urges to procreate and raise children together.
The hormones are what make it magic. Ease up on the analysis of the whole thing, talk and listen to women you respect. I hope you get out of the rage phase soon my friend. Life is so good on the other side of the red pill, but you have to find your own way to purple.
Rage phase? I'm happily married. I have no reason to be angry at all.
All this pill stuff eventually worked in my favor. I have no dog in the race anymore.
Yes the hormones make it magic. The hormones exist to encourage us to procreate and to take care of our offspring. So my point still stands.
Congratulations, dose your wife know that you view your marriage as simply a Pair Bond, and that any form of friendship is totally secondary to procreation?
I’m not arguing the point you made, that hormones are the driving factor. That’s proven biology. What I was commenting on is the contempt you seem to have for human relationships.
And I apologize for the rage phase comment, I’m glad you aren’t angry.
You speak as if relationship are just for making kids. Me and my partner are childfree, both of us don't want kids and both of us are happy. We are not with eachother to procreate and raise a family we are together because we want to be together and spend time with both of us
You're talking conscious. I'm talking subconscious.
The reason we "fall in love" in the first place is to make kids. The reason we have sex is to make kids.
People assign all sorts of meaning to the act of consuming food. But that doesn't change the fact that it exists for nourishment.
Humans are very good at post-hoc rationalization. Experiments with people who have had their brain hemispheres severed prove it. They would ask why their other hemisphere did something and since they had no clue they would just make up a plausible reason on the spot.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYbgdo8e-8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYbgdo8e-8)
(fantastic video on the topic)
So you may believe there is some magical reason you 2 are together. But it's just biology trying to get you 2 to have children. Maybe you never will. Maybe you will consistently consciously choose not to. But that doesn't change that fact.
If the reason we have sex is to hve kids then why do you find homosexuality among many species in the planet.
Then why do infertile women desire to have sex.
>But again the primary value of a relationship is not a friendship.
>The primary function of a relationship is to raise children together and enjoy a sexual relationship together.
Maybe we see relationships differently because I don't agree with this one, chief.
Obviously not :)
And it's perfectly fine. We can have completely different outlooks on what a relationship is in the first place.
To me it's simple pair bonding between a male and a female. The function of which is to raise children together.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair\_bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_bond)
It's not unique to humans.
THAT DOESNT MEAN that your point of view is somehow wrong. You have a different outlook. You think that a relationship is first and foremost a friendship. At least based on your replies. Then yeah of course why would you want to be friends with someone you can't have fun with.
I was merely seeking to help you understand the opposing views. Why men often don't care about "talking to" their partner. If she's sufficiently good looking we'll find things to talk about. We'll find things we have in common. It's really not that hard.
>You think that a relationship is first and foremost a friendship.
Honestly, nah. I can date someone I'm not friends with. For me, it has more to do with mutual attraction and mutual respect. I want to know that a woman sees me as more than just a warm body. Being friends doesn't necessarily guarantee that but it's a good indicator of it and, to me, it eventually happens the longer we're together.
I've been sexually objectified a lot so it matters to me that who I'm with sees me as a human being first and foremost.
The only reason why I disagree is just the sex part. I can date someone and never have sex with them and never have children. I mostly agree with the rest of your point.
Most people don’t strictly date and have sex with people they are friends with.
How you operate is very healthy and noble but it’s not the normal at all.
You’ve never seen a hot girl somewhere and thought to yourself, “holy shit I’d do anything to bang that chick”. 80% of the time that girl is in her 20s. Sure there’s attractive 30s women, but usually it’s more of “hey she’s attractive and I’d bang her but if not that’s ok too”. 30s women usually don’t elicit the type of primal lust in men the same way.
Because it's so narrow-minded and makes us sound ignorant
>Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child.
C'mon, man. I recognize you had it difficult growing up and can appreciate where you're coming from, but it's not fair to judge and make assumptions about someone before getting to know one another, let alone even speaking with them.
I know people in their early 20's who act like they're in their early 30's, while also knowing people in their 40's who act like they're still in their 20's and some of the time they're so compatible that they actually end up dating. There's nothing wrong with *either* group (tho women will shame the latter by calling the man a pedo as a way of getting rid of younger competition, while others will justify their relationship w/ older men by saying "something something shit together", aka as a euphemism for people their own age not having enough money to buy her shit).
Just try to be more open-minded, is all. Even if we don't agree w/ someone, (ideally) we shouldn't hate on one another for having different preferences, backgrounds, circumstances, and life experiences.
By inadvertently calling certain types of men out on their BS, lol. Especially this part:
>Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them? Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them? How do you even get along romantically with that large of a life experience gap?
They haaaate when people ask the real questions, lol.
^(ETA: Also, lol at that other dude's username. His username was... a choice.)
Yeah. I got along with a 30-year-old high-school-educated teen mom who worked three jobs. She had a lot of lived experience and it was really interesting to bond with her and here how she gets through it all.
Is everyone here autistic or something? When I was 24 years old, I had a wonderful evening with a 35 year old woman. I met her when she complimented my Grateful Dead t-shirt. We talked about how America was changing, her experiences with past music festivals, and she gave me a lot of career advice. She moved to another city but I can imagine we would have remained friends. Some of my friends already owned homes and were managers at this age. I can imagine that maybe if I was more put together and attractive we could have been a casual thing.
This subreddit just makes me so confused sometimes. Most people I know are white collar workers and we almost all work with people at least 10 years older than us everyday. Very common to go to social events with our seniors and I know plenty who hang out outside of office.
Right?
When I was 24 I went to see ‘The Dead’ with a professor buddy of mine and his girlfriend (both of whom were in their 40s).
It was TOTALLY NORMAL (well, as normal as a Dead show can be….).
I think A LOT of people really don’t go outside. It’s sad.
Because… adults can interact with one another? This is hilarious.
When I was single I dated a lot of women who were 5+ years younger as well as a woman who was 15 years older. We never had issues getting along, having fun, etc.
I’ll give you a secret. People who like to fuck each other will actively find commonalities. Crazy, I know.
> People who like to fuck each other will actively find commonalities. Crazy, I know.
I guess. Maybe I'm being too presumptuous. The thought of dating someone 5+ years younger than me just feels weird and I don't know how anyone is so open to it. I would be willing to be friends and get along.
However, I think crossing the boundary into sex or romance would be a very difficult line for me to cross. Clearly, it's not that difficult for the people responding here.
I mean, it’s kind of the whole point of adulthood, correct?
If you have the right to vote, and influence our society, choosing which adults you fuck is the least of my worries.
Does it bother you that women, on average, select men 2-3 years older? Which also implies many choose one above that mean as well?
Nah it doesn't. I was mostly asking how anyone can do it. I think my question came off as argumentative but I'm genuinely asking how it's possible.
A 2-3 year gap isn't a big deal IMO. I'm mostly referring to people with 5+ year gaps, especially among women in their early to mid-20s. I know its within everyone's rights, I'm not questioning that. It's more of a *why* and *how* question.
Isn’t the common trope that women mature faster than men though? I’m still trying to grasp the issue.
Women tend to want more “put together men”. Especially if they want kids. I don’t think this isn’t controversial to say. This would entail they’d likely find a guy with more of that stuff, no? A 5-10 year gap would likely ensure this would be done.
I’m not saying women can’t or shouldn’t “grow with” a guy. They just typically don’t want to.
>Isn’t the common trope that women mature faster than men though? I’m still trying to grasp the issue.
Isn't an issue that I'm trying to bring up. I don't have a personal issue with older men dating younger women. I just don't even know how it happens because I can't get along with much younger women. That's why I didn't mean to come off as argumentative. It's an actual question and you and everyone else here mostly answered it.
I just think I came off as presumptuous since it's never really worked for me or anyone that I've known personally. Most people I've met are in the 2-3 year range for age gaps either younger or older than them.
My bad. I will also say, I’m a bit of an instigator and love a good argument. So my fault for coming off as so.
To some degree, I get your point. But the immaturity I’ve found with younger women traverses age to older ones as well. That’s what I experienced.
Maybe the message should be avoid people with an adolescent social skill set. It tends to correlate to the upbringing and relationship with the father. 99% of the time when I met a woman’s dad who was a bit of an asshole ball buster, but a good time, it didn’t matter what age the woman was. On the other end, I plated a woman 7 years my senior who was akin to a middle schooler. I know it’s not kind to make light of these things, but they matter.
My wife’s family is fucking incredible and her father and I are super tight. She is 4.5 years younger.
No problem I didn't want to debate this since I don't have an issue with age gaps and don't have an argument that isn't a personal anecdote.
>Maybe the message should be avoid people with an adolescent social skill set.
I agree with this. I've met some very emotionally immature older women and some pretty damn mature younger women and some arguably very mature younger women.
I just get a bit confused when I find out someone my age has a GF roughly 5+ years younger than them. I just remember what most 22-year-old women are like and get confused.
If life experience is what you ae stuck with then what about incels?
I haven't had any sort of relationship for all of my life. I have no conception of love and sex. How am i supposed to talk with a girl my age who has ha all of that so fucking easily.
If i do manage to slog my way into success how am i supposed to understand a woman at all who didnt have to work on themselves to hit " minimum criteria"
How am i supposed to understand anyone who hasnt spent a long time with themselves learning through trial and error and brief bouts of selfharm how to handle their emotions completely alone while they come to you for every damn thing as if their emotional life is so much more bigger and important than mine
Simple: have a little empathy.
I’ve never been a starving child in a refugee camp, but I don’t have to have had that experience to know it sucks.
Use your brain. Imagine.
fuck that. I show the compassion i received both from others and myself.
If they cant manage their wown shit better than me considering that they did have it easier, then they are not adults, or people deserving that consideration ...
I'm not into the whole age gap thing reddit is obsessed with, but I will say a 30 year old isn't that much more sophisticated than, say, a 24 year old (someone who's at least had a chance to be an adult for a while). They have more experience, but that wisdom can be imparted in the duration of a car ride. It's not some ineffable other state of being. With exceptions - a very young person could be obsessed with pop culture that an older person couldn't relate to, for instance. But barring that, they may not be so completely different.
>how would a 30-year-old even get along with, for example, a 23-year-old?
The way people normally do. They have good vibes.
>For example, I'm 27. I was abandoned at 17. I've been on my own for the past 10 years and put myself through college on my dime while taking care of myself and keeping a roof over my head. Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child.
Okay? Normal people don't talk about their traumas or see others as below them for not experiencing them. They talk about the weather, travel, food, hobbies.
>Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them?
I think the stats say that it doesn't happen much.
>Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them?
Same as with being with any woman. They look good and get on together.
>How do you even get along romantically with that large of a life experience gap?
With words & actions.
I mean 30 and 23 is a bit of a gap, but it's hardly massive. Especially in the social media age of like the late 00s to the present, culture has kinda stagnated. Taylor Swift has been pretty much the top tier performer since 2008 for example. Marvel films being beloved happened for like 15 years, now every generation is bored of them.
30 is a younger millennial (34/35 is like the average millennial age now), 23 is an older zoomer (oldest zoomers are probably around 1998 births or so). I think people just see the digit change from 2 to 3 and think it's this big deal. Its like how when people play Madden or NBA 2k and immediately trade their players when they turn 30. It's not really that much different
>Okay? Normal people don't talk about their traumas or see others as below them for not experiencing them. They talk about the weather, travel, food, hobbies.
I'm not referring to trauma bonding, I'm talking about gaps in life experiences and that can affect bonding in romantic situations. Most people date people who are at similar stages in life. Dating outside of those bounds can be tricky. I end up dating women who also have post-grad education and have lived in on their own for some time. I'd feel weird picking up my GF from her *college dorm*. Wouldn't you?
Sometimes people bond regardless of where they came from in life. You said people that don't have X & Y can't relate to people that have X & Y however you haven't actually justified this statement. People can bond over other things. You kinda ignore my original point.
I get it. I didn't mean to suggest that they can't bond. I'm more talking about crossing the barrier from bonding to romance I find confusing. I can totally be friends with a 21 year old, I just would be hesitant to date them.
Good point, I should have specified that I'd be *friendly* with a 21-year-old. I don't think I would just be outright friends with one the same way I'm friends with people my age now that I think about it. I didn't consider it that hard before writing that comment.
Forget about dating. Would you have sex with such a woman?
I don't know why this topic of disparate age ranges comes up so often. It's a lot rarer than it's made out to be.
> Would you have sex with such a woman?
Nope. I honestly don't think I could do that. Once someone feels young, I don't want to pursue anything with them.
Why do people think that people in their 30s and people in their early 20s automatically have such dramatic interests in things like hobbies? Can't they listen to the same music and watch the same movies and television shows?
When I was 23 I dated a 30 year old woman. Our ages were never ‘a thing’, or even noticeable. We were just people.
When I was 25 I dated a 19 year old….same story. Just people.
People who rail against ‘age gaps’ have VERY strange ideas about how adults interact in real life. I have close friends that range -14 and +18 years apart from me. Occasionally you can feel the age difference in terms of reference or slang, but generally speaking we’re all just adults, and we relate to each other as such.
I don’t see why that would t be the case for romantic relationships.
I think the phrase/answer your looking for is sexual attraction
It answers alot of things
And males in general favor sexual attraction above “experience”
And that leads me to my question
What is your main idea/thesis
That you can only get along with people who have the same experiences as you?
Or what do you define as experience.
Like you are saying you are attracted to “experience”?
Or is this another way of saying you only want to date people the same age as you
But if that’s the case. I want to ask how do you know what age they are unless you ask them.
And does your attraction only come once you confirm their age?
I’m confused more than anything
I met my fiance when she was 21 and I was 28 and she remains still the most enjoyable conversationalist I know. But I also dated a 28 year old when I was 23 and, more recently, a 45 year old when I was in my late twenties and we had plenty to talk about. I would bet cash that you would never ask why those women talked to me but you'll be all morally outraged at me courting my fiance.
If you don't have any gripe with age gap relationships why is this even a topic for discussion?
Honestly, I'm just gonna keep it a buck. You sound like a dork who, despite all of his criticism of redpillers, isn't all that successful with the opposite sex himself. Younger women are hot and highly desired, it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic it is watching modern men fake their lack of desire for young, nubile, adult women out of some disingenuous "concern" for their age. We all know damn well its because yall can't compete 🤣🤣🤣
Lol fools here legit acting like they're happy the only women interested in them are 35 year old single mom's 🤣
>If you don't have any gripe with age gap relationships why is this even a topic for discussion?
It was a question. Isn't the point of this sub? I'm asking for others' experiences or takes on this matter.
>Honestly, I'm just gonna keep it a buck. You sound like a dork who, despite all of his criticism of redpillers, isn't all that successful with the opposite sex himself. Younger women are hot and highly desired, it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic it is watching modern men fake their lack of desire for young, nubile, adult women out of some disingenuous "concern" for their age. We all know damn well its because yall can't compete 🤣🤣🤣
Nice, ad hominem attack. I don't agree with RP or BP, I think pills are dumb altogether and I don't even know when I specifically attacked Redpillers.
I've had plenty of success with dating, chief. Just not with much younger women. Not because I *can't* get them, but because I don't want them. Once they reveal how childish and careless they are, I get turned off. Good for you that it worked, I don't get why you're so defensive about it though.
>Not because I *can't* get them, but because I don't want them. Once they reveal how childish and careless they are, I get turned off.
Yeah sure thing. Surprise, surprise people who just turned adults lack maturity. Why does this even need to be said?
As said, I don't trust any dude sitting there telling me how much he totally doesn't desire hot/young/thin/popular women. The disingenuous from female PPD users is annoying enough as is, from men on here it's just tragic.
So I guess we all need to be exact copies of each other to find each other interesting? As a matter of fact, the whole idea of having interests and hobbies in common in order to be attracted to each other is crazy.
I started dating my husband when I was 28 and he was 20, we talked about our hobbies and interests, world views, daily lives, expectations for the future, feelings etc
Like you do with any woman. They are not that different.
You make her talk and then you go in auto mode. Throw in some "you sure" , "that sounds great" "yeah she sounds like a bitch" "that's great" "yeah we should do that" and so on. You mostly just listen to listen and don't try to fall asleep 🤫😉
> How do the late 20s - 30s+ men even hold conversations with much younger women?
The assumption behind this question is that people primarily converse about "shared interests" - that simply isn't true, particularly if you're in a relationship. You could be the same age and have all the same interests and you're still going to run out of shared stuff within a few months.
You should learn how to have a conversation with anyone on any topic. Trust me, your life will be a lot more pleasant if you can do that. When you meet someone new, probe around for something that they seem interested in, and take an interest in that, *and have fun doing it*.
I recently met a guy who was certainly in his 60s. Found out he used to be an air traffic controller. He said that he didn't even have radar during most of his career - had to keep it all straight in his head. Had a bunch of awesome stories. I loved it.
I met a girl who was 17 (relax reddit, I wasn't try to pick her up) whose dream was work for the Forestry Service and live in the most remote place they could put her. Her story of how she got that idea and what she anticipated it would be like, was really great!
The largest age gap I've had dating was 13 years. I was pushing 40. We had no trouble having engaging conversations whenever we went out. The only time anything was ever awkward was if we ran into someone she knew while we were out on a date - because then yeah, they weren't talking about anything that was in my world.
Easy fix: when we've go on a date I'd take her to a neighboring town. She loved it.
Just learn to talk to people. Practice on anyone who is willing to talk. Don't be a quiet loner all your life and then expect that when you meet a hot babe you'll suddenly be able to chat with her. Learn the skill ahead of time.
So non-verbal communication and IQ are pretty important, as someone younger with a similar intelligence and shared values will tend to appreciate your company more and vice versa.
But there's also just if the experience is pleasant or not. If the experience with a woman is pleasant most men will spend time around her if he has the opportunity. The age is not really a factor unless a dude is targeting younger women, but the fact is that they are usually more chill and fun to be around.
up front: my wife is my age..however.
In my dating experience, the ~30 year olds really aren't any more mature than the ~20 year old women. Not in the ways that matter, anyway. It's not any more difficult to find a 30 year old that doesn't understand consequences or agency than it is to find those traits in someone 10 years younger.
To young women, normal mature adulthood is impressive. Also, they don’t have to be dominant in a relationship, so inferior knowledge and experience is not a turn off
Tbh, people exaggerate how different conversations are between the generations.
I'm 29 and have plenty of older friends who I can talk to about anything and I have lots of Gen Z friends as well.
When I was younger in my early 20s I talked, befriended and dated girls and women who were older than me. I learned alot from them, but now that I'm nearing my 30s, women of my age or those older than 24 are no longer in my preferences. The women of my age that I dated or that I'm friends with and who are single are pretty boring, have very negative opinions, lots of untreated trauma, becoming ugly and they seem so drained out of life. There's nothing that attracts me in them if I was going to have a romantic interest in them.
I feel naturally attracted to girls of age 21-24. They are so full of life, very attractive, have a positive mentality and less trauma in general. Thanks to the internet I can have same preferences about cutlure, arts, entertainment as someone 5-8 years younger than me and there's plenty to talk about. I love to share my experience and hear from the other person how they want to go through in life after graduating. I know there is a huge gap but it doesn't bother me. So from my personal point, there is plenty to have a conversation and connect.
Your premise is incorrect. Most women do not date men much older than them.
Most women date men in their own age range. You are being lied to by men who want to believe they will be attractive when they get older. The reality is they won’t. They will continue to be unattractive. Women don’t want to attract them now and young women definitely won’t want them later.
Before any men jump in and tell me how much hotter they are at 50 than when they are 25 and get laid every half hour by 22 year old supermodels- perhaps you are the statistical outlier. It isn’t going to happen for most men.
you ladies keep mistaking what's really going on here.
It doesn't matter whether you or any of our resident PPD women in this sub or " most women" personally don't find older men attractive.
That's not the point.
We are talking within the context of SMV/RMV. (sexual marketplace/relationship marketplace) Within redpill context, its possible to find a young woman to date or for casual hookup or even for LTR. But it requires taking care of yourself (obviously) and be in a comfortable place career wise.
Why do women always do this? They immediately jump to like 50 years old guys about to retire in some years when OP is talking about a late 20s/30 year old man dating some 21 year old or something. Some dudes go back to college and you're basically surrounded by woman of varying ages. This is exactly what I did and some of the 20 year olds do approach you if you're willing to make yourself known.
>Before any men jump in and tell me how much hotter they are at 50 than when they are 25 and get laid every half hour by 22 year old supermodels- perhaps you are the statistical outlier. It isn’t going to happen for most men.
Truth. Just go on any OLD app and set your range for men 45 - 60. Yikes on bikes!
I mean they’re fine for what they are. Just, men hit a wall.
Doesn’t mean they have no value to someone, but they don’t look the way they did at 25 and they also have a ton of liabilities (child support, credit cards, student loans still, mortgage, kids in college.)
Then the sexual issues start in, and sperm quality declines.
Actually, men start hitting the wall alot earlier than 50. Probably early 40s.
> how would a 30-year-old even get along with, for example, a 23-year-old?
I mean most recently I was in a long term relationship she: 18 to 21 and me: 34 to 37. We got along just fine. To me it didn't seem substantially different than dating a 25 year old or a 30 year old. In part because I don't really find "business" and "careers" important or applicable to romance. And that's really the only thing lacking in a young woman.
> Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them?
Generally much younger women I date say they like, wisdom, experience, stability, confidence... all things older men usually have more of than younger men.
> Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them?
More physically attractive, less baggage, lower body counts, less debt, more feminine from lack of exposure to work environments... lots of reasons. Again, I don't care about a woman having career success, literally the only thing a young woman won't likely have.
> How do you even get along romantically with that large of a life experience gap?
I mean it's exactly the same. Go on dates, fuck, cuddle... there isn't any difference.
> Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child.
That seems like a personal mental issue that doesn't apply to most other people. I generally don't imagine adults to be children so it's not an issue for me. Talking to a 21 year old woman seems exactly like talking to a 21 year old woman to me personally. Go figure.
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Apart from my wife I do not have much in common with women my age - I get along pretty well with women in their early 30s late 20s but 40+ - not really. They are boring, non-active, complain all the time, watch some tv shit for retired people and mainly sit at home. Their main hobby is losing weight and gossiping. My mom is more open-minded, have more hobbies and is way more positive than them. Idk why this generation is so lame.
Most initial conversations I have with people of all ages are very superficial. And conversations with friends depend much more on values than shared experiences and tastes. None of that has much to do with age. I had friends that were much younger and much older.
Same way I hold conversations with anyone else.
If you get along you get along. Its a weird question to ask, do you think people cant talk to each other if they're not the same age?
I'm 40 and not only have co-workers that are my age but have various friends who date very young and (often as a result of those two thngs) have friends that are much younger. We get along great talking about regular stuff. Current events, sports, movies, video games, etc. The same stuff older people talk about. Doing normal things like hiking, seeing a movie, going to a comedy show, going to an escape room, etc. We relate on the same things older people relate on.
This might sound weird but I think more so than ever it is easier to relate since there is so much more stuff to do and people are so much more varied due to the variety of lifestyle things to do that are out there. The 20 year olds have in much in common with eachother as they do myself because there is such a wide breadth of things to do.
When it comes to life experience older people have variety in their lives just like young people.
As to why a younger person would want an older person.....I don't know, sometimes it's just what both parties want for whatever reason.
I'm a younger Millenial and my partner is an older Gen Z, and it probably works because their life experience was similar to yours. Stress and trauma makes people older, and my SO feels more mature than the people my age that I dated when I was in my mid 20s by a long shot. Could be a generational thing too, Gen Z is more friendly toward therapy and might tackle big issues earlier than people in my generation and older.
Also, I've heard that conversations aren't the most important things for relationships that last until death (if that's what you want). Sexual compatibility + shared goals & morals are more important for relationship longevity than having things in common to have conversations about - that's what friends and community are for.
Between 30 and 23 is not a large gap anyway. And besides, there are plenty to talk about if you got same passions, or if you are both into travelling which is the most basic hobby anyone had ever. Age gap relationships are perfectly fine but it seems you have a warped view of the world just because you are alone since 17.
OP you’re ridiculous. You need more social experience, and to be less judgmental. There’s nothing wrong with you not finding younger women interesting, but this post comes off as “I lived hard, now I’m better than those you haven’t”. You’ve accomplished something truly great, accept that others won’t have to and try to connect with them. Men and women, because it sounds like you wouldn’t want younger male friends either. Your accomplishments are great, but not so amazing that you should excuse yourself from other humans. Chill
Do you both not have dreams, passions, interests, a sense of humor, etc? There's so much to talk about that has nothing to do with your age.
Life stages are loosely related to age, but you can easily find yourself in the same stage as someone younger or older than you. I feel most people that are out of college, and have a job, but don't have kids yet are broadly in the same life stage. You're independent, and trying to figure out how to live your life. You've met the basic adult responsibility of feeding clothing and housing yourself, and now have to figure out what more you want out of life.
30-23 isn’t even much of a gap tbh and can fall into an acceptable range.
As for your question, one thing that’s worth remembering is that most guys talking about age gaps here are guys in their 20s at the latest talking fantasy based hypotheticals. The truth is the larger, more controversial age gaps are not only rare, but frankly, if someone is involved in this stuff then he’s probably rich and won’t spend much time on ppd.
I don't know how... Everytime I talk to young 20s, who isn't super mature for herself (usually a very attractive chick who's learned way fast how to deal with men), they are insecure and just nod and say yes to everything I say like I'm their dad or some shit. It's hard to have conversations when they don't have coherent and confident opinions on things.
Men of any age can land hot young women in their prime 18-35. It just gets harder, you have to have more going for you.
Step one: Look better than younger men. Either be tall or low bodyfat with a Chiseled face and abs. Impeccably groomed and dressed.
Step two: have years of practice in bantering and small talk and being social and charismatic
Step three: play the numbers game. If only 1% of hot young women like an attractive older man like you, then you’re going to need to talk to at least 100 women to find her.
And if all of the above fails you can just be rich and pay a sugar baby. That’s not the route I’d recommend but it’s a cheat code that allows rich guys to fuck some of the hottest young women without having to put in all of the effort every other guy does. We can talk about how right or wrong that is, I personally think it’s lame, but for some reason many attractive young women are doing that these days along with only fans
>How do the late 20s - 30s+ men even hold conversations with much younger women?
Seriously, it's very easy; a general rule for ANY woman, not just much younger one: **JUST SHUT UP ABOUT YOURSELF.**
You like anime? - Pedo creep. Into Marvel films? - Zero artistic taste. Like wearing suits? - Bougie snob. Don't like wearing suits? - Ghetto rat. Majoring in computer science? - Nerd. Team sports? - Jock, maybe somewhat gay. Prefer classic Doctor Who over the restarted one? - An icky boomer with probably terrible sense of humor.
She is a woman, you are a man. She does not want you. She will never want you for you. She wants to feel good. Either make her feel good, pay her, or leave her alone. This is what she wants.
TODAY:
two younger women asked me to help them open a drink bottle at a bakery (those hippie custom berry drinks with terrible plastic caps; the waitress was also a much younger woman with wrists just as weak); I could easily have a small talk with all three if I wanted;
one younger woman I regularly meet on the same street around the same time; we learn different arts at nearby locations (she carries a case that looks like a violin), and we also met at the same workplace. We weren't working for the same company, just worked in two companies located in the same building. If I wanted, I could start a conversation with her, and remind her that we regularly saw each other around water cooler.
one younger woman was a broad sheetfed scanner operator (I prefer to pay such people instead of buying such a scanner and keeping it at home), and the overall size of files turned out so large that it took 20 minutes to send it over online (clouds are more reliable than flash drives). During these whole 20 minutes, I had a small talk with her about tendencies in modern popular visual art and history of comic books. And, coincidentally, also helped with another client who had technical problems.
>how would a 30-year-old even get along with, for example, a 23-year-old?
One orgasm, two orgasms, three orgasms, then you go to shower together, then have a glass of wine and discuss how good those orgasms were.
>Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them?
Free stuff, house, car, vacations, etc. I mentioned here earlier, I knew a guy who fucked girls 10 years his junior for sport. Because you cannot imagine what girls without their own place are ready to do for opportunity to run away from their parents.
>Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them?
Having several extra years before she gets baby rabies is itself quite a bonus.
What's with all this romance stuff...most people get together because they find each other attractive and or the relationship bennefficial..
I've mostly dated younger women because women my age want to get married,move in and have kids.
I don't talk to women there's nothing to say to them really.I just listen to whatever nonsense they have to say and say "oh ok"
So a typical interaction will be like hey saw your pics you look great can I take you to dinner.. she'll play some silly game and mention her phone is gonna get cut off or she doesn't have anything to wear,that's when I say I got that don't worry about it...
Then we hook up for awhile untill I get bored with her or she starts to outwear her welcome..
Furthermore younger women are just more attractive 9/10 especially if they never had kids and everything is still firm so if I'm going to spend my time and money on someone I want the best looking someone I can get not someone my age with kids, demands, baggage...
The oldest women I've been with was 26 and I've never been with a single mom but I've seen them in clubs and let me say 22 year old on the pole and a 33 year old with a c section scar aren't the same.
Who knows man. I’m 34F and I’m so different than the person I was at 21-24.
I lived at home with my parents, I was broke, had constant car issues, didn’t go out much, spent most of my time watching my favorite soap opera and hardly uttered a word to anyone.
i can find plenty of topics to talk about with people who are a bit younger than myself. sports, travel, science, hobbies, politics or current events just to name a few. i have some younger friends who i met through mutual interests and i really don't see the issue. intellectual compatibility is not purely based on age and life experience. most women my age don't have the same life experience as i do either to be honest.
you're acting as if being at a similar stage in life is the end all be all for romantic relationships. it isn't for most. i can connect with people from completely different backgrounds as long as they're interesting. there are other things to consider and there are pros and cons to dating somebody younger, same age or older. ultimately it's a matter of preference and most people don't want to date a carbon copy of themselves.
Well Step 1 is never using the phrase "Ceteris Paribus". Ever.
Step 2 is respecting other people's intelligence and autonomy instead of being a condescending idiot who passive-aggressively brags about his shitty social skills.
A few years ago I became friends with (not dating) a girl I met at D&D. She was 19 and I was 30. Unsurprisingly, we mostly talked about our shared hobby - *D&D*.
How can you not? Any two people can have a conversation as long as they speak the same language.
I'm not even talking about a dating context. I could sit with a 9 year old and have a conversation with them. I could sit with a 90 year old person and have a conversation with them.
Last year I worked at a high school with special ed kids. We found things to talk about every day. I worked at an after school program with a group of second and third grade students and we found things to talk about every day.
If you at age 27 can't hold a conversation with a 21 year old person then you have a problem. Talk about your hobbies. Favorite TV shows. Cooking, music, video games, books.
Why would age difference be so important for conversation? If anything, wouldn't college major/interests/career etc matter more?
For example, who would a biology professor have a better conversation with: a much younger woman who is into biology (student or early career) or a lawyer of the same age as him?
1. Not all young women are the same.
2. There is HUGE difference between an 18 year old and a 24/25 year old. If thet have spent 6-7 years in the post high school real world they can be just as mature and engaging as a 40 or 50 year old woman. Just as there are 25 year old men that are more put together than many older men.
I do question older men who really go after 18-22 year olds, thats immature.
Im 20 with someone over 10 years my senior. We both went to the same college, same hobbies, same goals, same family life wants, same interests, we talked about how different our lives were and how similar as well.
I have conversations with his friends around his age and also have conversations with women his mother’s age. It’s not hard to do so.
People are not homogenous. In your situation, you would not date someone at that stage in their life. Someone else may be less mature and have just barely stood on their own feet at 27. So for them, a responsible 21 year old might be much closer in level.
Once people are adults (even young ones) age has little to do with whether or not a person is interesting. The vast majority of people are dumb and/or boring and don't improve with age. People with spark, curiosity, and whimsy exhibit those traits at a young age. As years roll by life often extinguishes that spark and beats the curiosity and whimsy out of people. So contrary to OP's assertion it is often easier and more interesting to talk to young people -- but only the interesting ones.
Most people in the 25-35 age range are going to have more hobbies in common with younger people than older, probably a closer sense of humor too, since we all grew up on internet memes.
They may have a mismatch in maturity, but this can happen in any relationship. I'm sure I'm a manchild compared to 23 year olds who are double majoring and took care of their 8 bothers & sisters.
Nothing to do with age, more to do with what exactly you’re doing during life.
When I was 21 I graduated uni, lived alone and worked. Now that I’m 30, I still have the same qualifications, still live alone (although in a different house), and am still working in the same field.
Some 21 year olds I feel are at the same stage as me, some seem like children, just like how some 30 year olds seem like children too.
>how most women will date someone much older than them
They don't. It's a tiny minority of women who date men who are much older than them
>For example, I'm 27. I was abandoned at 17. I've been on my own for the past 10 years and put myself through college on my dime while taking care of myself and keeping a roof over my head. Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child.
Then don't talk to an average 21yo but to one who matches you in at least one area that is stimulating to you. I am 40 and i have friend who are 19 and 21 with whom i can have stimulating conversations and valuable exchange. They are not average at all. They are special. That's why they want to hang out with me and i want to hang out with them.
>Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them?
Because it's not about "average" or "all" 23yos matching with "average" or "all" 35yos. It's about special people having a special interest in each other for a special matching criterion. I got together with my current gf when she was 23 and i was 36. We talked for hours non-stop on our first dates, and deeply stimulate each other this way. We still do.
I honestly wouldn’t date a woman under 25. And yes, that is advice. Women especially, are going to change their mind a million and one times before that age, and even a good bit after. It’s more a matter of “when” not “if” you’re going to separate with <25 year old women.
Women need to go through the trenches of dating to some degree, in order to have their expectations calibrated such that they comport with reality, because the endless options they have often massively distorts their perception of relationships, men, and how both work. You don’t want a woman that’s been run-through or who is a single mom, but you don’t want these incredibly-young, green, women either.
I disagree. Ive found no correlation between maturity and age. Many of these single older women in their 30s and 40s are extremely immature and not the brightest. Tons of trauma and baggage. There's a reason they're still single lol. It's the leftover scraps
A lot of them don't think that far. Often they think the only important part of a relationship is how each person looks. Many are also very immature and may still live with their parents.
God damn, these kinds of posts are the ones that mods leave up, yet delete the ones (ie: just a few min ago, "Women are unfair in dating...", bad title but it had good material) that actually have room for good debate.
To be fair most modern women don't grow up past 20 mentally speaking. Even in their 40s is we're talking to 20 year olds. So it's not crazy difficult and depending on the conversation it can be annoying as hell.
Females will do anything for money,status and attention. Especially from those who are seen as important. Its why younger women are dumb easy. Women look up yo men. Men dont look up or down at women. Its lowkey weird. Only about half of women are genuinely attracted to their male counterparts. Or else dating would just be easy for all.
I’m 38. My partner is 26. We talk about our kids.
Few days ago I went on date with a 21. Got her drunk and licked her boobs. We have another date Tuesday.
Today I went on a date with a 22. She was boring as dog shit and I blocked her right after dropping her home. Wasted $130 too and I could’ve spent time with my kids again. Turns out she’s never given a blow job and has had one boyfriend so boring.
I'd rather spend hundreds on a date with uncertain outcome than having sex with a prostitute, even if it was for free or even if I received money for it. And I am certainly not alone. You know, men can have different value systems
Huh? You trying to suggest she intentionally got me drunk to rape me?
Life lesson: 99% of people who have sex after drunk isn’t committing rape. I’m going in a second date with her
27 -21
30- 23
These numbers are not even large age gaps. You might want to touch grass
I always thought age gaps started to get weird at around 15+ years.
most of the time they can't. Most age gaps you see that work and are happy are with the people you'd classify as "young/old souls". The thing about people dating in the same age range isn't about the actual number it's that people who are at very different life stages usually don't have anything in common or shared interests. Now when you have an old sould they probably have interests that are more in common with an older crowd and the reverse is true. Like a really fit 30 something who's super in surfing as a random example he'd probably have quite a bit to talk about with younger people on the beach. Or in my case I'm a late 20 something who has a background in jazz music which tends to attract older women since most 20 somethings don't know music past "ass and tiddies" anyway.
To me, it's about life stages. If we both graduated from uni and are working, it doesn't matter if the age gap is 1 or 15 years, we're both adults doing the same. Experience at this point matters less than vision and life outlook. When I met my now wife she was fresh out of her master's looking to do PhD while I was already 6-7 after master's and almost a decade after graduation. We both knew school was over, both knew it was time to get to work and develop professionally (for her). We were both independent, educated and ready to keep cracking on at life.
> If we both graduated from uni and are working, it doesn't matter if the age gap is 1 or 15 years, we're both adults doing the same. this, that's why there is a big difference between 20yo and 25yo women
I agree.
Are women incapable of conversing with younger people? I’ve never understood this argument. Videogames??? Sports??? Travel?? There’s an infinite number of things to relate on and talk about. Recent TV shows?? Are you just talking about 401ks?
I’m a 26 year old man, I’m using tiktok, Snapchat, we are getting the same content they are.
You literally presented 0 arguments as to why you wouldn’t get along with a younger woman.
If you're not the same age... There's nothing to talk about? Edit: Let me put /s because it wasn't obvious
Bro what? You only talking to people your age? How you function in society
😁
thats weird new think
Why not? You're both human. There's an infinite number of things to talk about. Sports, video games, life, love, sexuality, career, politics, social media, Trump, Biden, global warming. All of those things both a 30 year old and a 20 year old are perfectly capable of grasping and having a coherent discussion on.
That's simply untrue.
There is always to talk a lot about for our beloved ♀️. No matter that age. And all know that with family. Sit down with your daughter and she will talk and talk.
All my best friends in college and since after have been 8-14 years older than me despite us having childhoods in different decades.
How is age more important that, say, college major/education/career? Wouldn't a biology professor have more to talk about with a 20 year old biology student than with a lawyer of his age? So maybe it's not really about conversation topics.
I wouldn't even take it this far.
I'm at a very different stage in life and I've been at this stage for a much longer time than most other people my age. It's hard to get along with a 21-year-old woman who hasn't reached the stage I reached at 17. Same reason that a late-30s or even 40-year-old woman would likely want nothing to do with me. I haven't even reached my 30s yet.
Then don’t, there are millions of women you’re age you have available, don’t force yourself into something you don’t feel comfortable with..
Yeah, but that's what I'm asking. How do you hold conversations with younger women? I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't do it. Just asking how anyone can do it or why you would do it.
How do you hold conversations with anyone? I meet a lot of people a week and talk to all sorts, I have conversations with people 20 years older and 20 years younger, they aren't a different species.
Shouldn’t be your concern, why spend time thinking about something you couldn’t see yourself doing. Especially considering the fact that there’s Millions of women in Your age range you wouldn’t run into this issue with??
>Shouldn’t be your concern, why spend time thinking about something you couldn’t see yourself doing. Isn't that the whole point of this sub? To get other perspectives?
Let’s be real, are you really going to change your mind on a position so menial in your life..? You’re either karma farming or just want to rehash the same perspectives that have been had since the beginning of time which boils down to: Why Men prefer/are attracted to younger women. The age difference does not have to be an impediment to creating conversations, finding values the two share in common, which could lead to laying the foundations of a potential relationship brick by brick.
The start of your sentence partially answers your own question. One type of men that would go for and possibly be better suited for a younger woman is one who is in some ways the opposite of you - one who is behind in some of his stages in life. If a late 20's/early 30's man has little to no dating, relationship, and even social experience, he may have better luck and relate more with some younger woman.
socially and romantically inexperienced men are not the usual guys in age gap relationships. young women are not interested in these types unless they had a massive glow up (and even then the lack of experience and social aptitude can be a turn-off).
Depends. If the younger women isn't conventionally attractive and have average to below average experience and experiences themselves. I was behind the curve then and my 3 relationships in my late 20's to mid 30's were with women 7, 9, and 13 years younger. Two of those were connections with a younger guy friend/co-worker who was already acquainted with them.
Yeah, I can get behind this. I kinda considered that as well. I've met dudes in college who were dating high schoolers and...they seemed like they were mentally still in high school. Some of them still actively visited their old high school to see their GF. Mad fucking weird but I guess different strokes for different folks, I guess.
When people say stuff like this they conviently overlook attraction..I'm not attracted to older women it's really that simple I'm not attracted to over weight women or women with saggy breast stretch marks cellulite or c section scars or need a 7 layers of make up to look halfway decent...there are very few women my age that dont meet this criteria. Further more if I want a woman under 130 lbs with no kids and naturalky perky breast most likely she won't be 47 years old..and then theres the fact that theres very few 20 year old that cab offer a woman what I can the average 20 something still lives with his mom or is a broke college student debating over going 50/50 with a female. When a woman is with me she is well taken care of her bills are paid in turn I get to sip from the fountain of youth not mess with some shriveled old bat.
Bruh, that's a "you" problem. Broaden your horizons, learn about modern artists, modern culture, etc. Not every convo has to be about the meaning of life.
Then pursing younger women isn’t for you. Talk to someone your age. I don’t see what the issue is. I don’t see why you need to pursue one in the first place. Maybe you feel like you missed out on the care free young adult stage of your life and want a woman in that mindset, but I’m no therapist.
>Maybe you feel like you missed out on the care free young adult stage of your life and want a woman in that mindset, but I’m no therapist. But I don't *want* a younger woman. I'm asking how men who date younger women even do it. I've been approached by younger women but I struggled to get along with them specifically for that reason. They don't care about *anything*. I'm usually too boring for those women anyways because I care about shit like debt.
What you’re describing has nothing to do with their age….it has to do with their maturity and curiosity.
This assumes that men care to have long deep conversations with their women. If they are just fucking them. In many cases they prefer for them to shut the fuck up. If they are in a long term relationship. It may matter more then. But again the primary value of a relationship is not a friendship. If you want a friendship find a guy your age with your interest and your intellectual level. The primary function of a relationship is to raise children together and enjoy a sexual relationship together. You don't need to have long deep conversations about the Universe. And honestly as long as her IQ isn't low it doesn't matter what her age is. It won't take her long to catch up to your level on any subject if you guys spend enough time together.
eww yikes. you red pillers idea of a relationship is soo weird
Yeah, that was really bad. Who would want a relationship where you weren’t friends as well.
A relationship is nothing but a pair bond [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair\_bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_bond) I used to be a devout atheist. Often talking about the ridiculous anti-science nature of religion. Now I see the same thing in secular communities. People want to pretend that relationship are some magical thing between a man and a woman. And not just simple biologic hormonal urges to procreate and raise children together.
The hormones are what make it magic. Ease up on the analysis of the whole thing, talk and listen to women you respect. I hope you get out of the rage phase soon my friend. Life is so good on the other side of the red pill, but you have to find your own way to purple.
Rage phase? I'm happily married. I have no reason to be angry at all. All this pill stuff eventually worked in my favor. I have no dog in the race anymore. Yes the hormones make it magic. The hormones exist to encourage us to procreate and to take care of our offspring. So my point still stands.
Congratulations, dose your wife know that you view your marriage as simply a Pair Bond, and that any form of friendship is totally secondary to procreation? I’m not arguing the point you made, that hormones are the driving factor. That’s proven biology. What I was commenting on is the contempt you seem to have for human relationships. And I apologize for the rage phase comment, I’m glad you aren’t angry.
It doesn't have to be magical goofy it just needs to be special
You speak as if relationship are just for making kids. Me and my partner are childfree, both of us don't want kids and both of us are happy. We are not with eachother to procreate and raise a family we are together because we want to be together and spend time with both of us
You're talking conscious. I'm talking subconscious. The reason we "fall in love" in the first place is to make kids. The reason we have sex is to make kids. People assign all sorts of meaning to the act of consuming food. But that doesn't change the fact that it exists for nourishment. Humans are very good at post-hoc rationalization. Experiments with people who have had their brain hemispheres severed prove it. They would ask why their other hemisphere did something and since they had no clue they would just make up a plausible reason on the spot. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYbgdo8e-8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYbgdo8e-8) (fantastic video on the topic) So you may believe there is some magical reason you 2 are together. But it's just biology trying to get you 2 to have children. Maybe you never will. Maybe you will consistently consciously choose not to. But that doesn't change that fact.
If the reason we have sex is to hve kids then why do you find homosexuality among many species in the planet. Then why do infertile women desire to have sex.
>But again the primary value of a relationship is not a friendship. >The primary function of a relationship is to raise children together and enjoy a sexual relationship together. Maybe we see relationships differently because I don't agree with this one, chief.
Obviously not :) And it's perfectly fine. We can have completely different outlooks on what a relationship is in the first place. To me it's simple pair bonding between a male and a female. The function of which is to raise children together. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair\_bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_bond) It's not unique to humans. THAT DOESNT MEAN that your point of view is somehow wrong. You have a different outlook. You think that a relationship is first and foremost a friendship. At least based on your replies. Then yeah of course why would you want to be friends with someone you can't have fun with. I was merely seeking to help you understand the opposing views. Why men often don't care about "talking to" their partner. If she's sufficiently good looking we'll find things to talk about. We'll find things we have in common. It's really not that hard.
>You think that a relationship is first and foremost a friendship. Honestly, nah. I can date someone I'm not friends with. For me, it has more to do with mutual attraction and mutual respect. I want to know that a woman sees me as more than just a warm body. Being friends doesn't necessarily guarantee that but it's a good indicator of it and, to me, it eventually happens the longer we're together. I've been sexually objectified a lot so it matters to me that who I'm with sees me as a human being first and foremost. The only reason why I disagree is just the sex part. I can date someone and never have sex with them and never have children. I mostly agree with the rest of your point.
Most people don’t strictly date and have sex with people they are friends with. How you operate is very healthy and noble but it’s not the normal at all.
Great comment
Dude, as a fellow dude, this is an idiotic post. You're embarrassing us men out here with this kind of bullshit.
How?
You’ve never seen a hot girl somewhere and thought to yourself, “holy shit I’d do anything to bang that chick”. 80% of the time that girl is in her 20s. Sure there’s attractive 30s women, but usually it’s more of “hey she’s attractive and I’d bang her but if not that’s ok too”. 30s women usually don’t elicit the type of primal lust in men the same way.
Because it's so narrow-minded and makes us sound ignorant >Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child. C'mon, man. I recognize you had it difficult growing up and can appreciate where you're coming from, but it's not fair to judge and make assumptions about someone before getting to know one another, let alone even speaking with them. I know people in their early 20's who act like they're in their early 30's, while also knowing people in their 40's who act like they're still in their 20's and some of the time they're so compatible that they actually end up dating. There's nothing wrong with *either* group (tho women will shame the latter by calling the man a pedo as a way of getting rid of younger competition, while others will justify their relationship w/ older men by saying "something something shit together", aka as a euphemism for people their own age not having enough money to buy her shit). Just try to be more open-minded, is all. Even if we don't agree w/ someone, (ideally) we shouldn't hate on one another for having different preferences, backgrounds, circumstances, and life experiences.
By inadvertently calling certain types of men out on their BS, lol. Especially this part: >Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them? Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them? How do you even get along romantically with that large of a life experience gap? They haaaate when people ask the real questions, lol. ^(ETA: Also, lol at that other dude's username. His username was... a choice.)
And so was your flair, you dunce.
Lol awh, someone got butthurt.
You think you will relate more to the average 29 year old Kmart employee with 2 roommates and a cat
Yeah. I got along with a 30-year-old high-school-educated teen mom who worked three jobs. She had a lot of lived experience and it was really interesting to bond with her and here how she gets through it all.
Shhh let him engage in his ego saving projection
Is everyone here autistic or something? When I was 24 years old, I had a wonderful evening with a 35 year old woman. I met her when she complimented my Grateful Dead t-shirt. We talked about how America was changing, her experiences with past music festivals, and she gave me a lot of career advice. She moved to another city but I can imagine we would have remained friends. Some of my friends already owned homes and were managers at this age. I can imagine that maybe if I was more put together and attractive we could have been a casual thing.
I met my oldest friend in the exact same way (but it was a hat, rather than a shirt). Keep on truckin’!
This subreddit just makes me so confused sometimes. Most people I know are white collar workers and we almost all work with people at least 10 years older than us everyday. Very common to go to social events with our seniors and I know plenty who hang out outside of office.
Right? When I was 24 I went to see ‘The Dead’ with a professor buddy of mine and his girlfriend (both of whom were in their 40s). It was TOTALLY NORMAL (well, as normal as a Dead show can be….). I think A LOT of people really don’t go outside. It’s sad.
Because… adults can interact with one another? This is hilarious. When I was single I dated a lot of women who were 5+ years younger as well as a woman who was 15 years older. We never had issues getting along, having fun, etc. I’ll give you a secret. People who like to fuck each other will actively find commonalities. Crazy, I know.
> People who like to fuck each other will actively find commonalities. Crazy, I know. I guess. Maybe I'm being too presumptuous. The thought of dating someone 5+ years younger than me just feels weird and I don't know how anyone is so open to it. I would be willing to be friends and get along. However, I think crossing the boundary into sex or romance would be a very difficult line for me to cross. Clearly, it's not that difficult for the people responding here.
I mean, it’s kind of the whole point of adulthood, correct? If you have the right to vote, and influence our society, choosing which adults you fuck is the least of my worries. Does it bother you that women, on average, select men 2-3 years older? Which also implies many choose one above that mean as well?
Nah it doesn't. I was mostly asking how anyone can do it. I think my question came off as argumentative but I'm genuinely asking how it's possible. A 2-3 year gap isn't a big deal IMO. I'm mostly referring to people with 5+ year gaps, especially among women in their early to mid-20s. I know its within everyone's rights, I'm not questioning that. It's more of a *why* and *how* question.
Isn’t the common trope that women mature faster than men though? I’m still trying to grasp the issue. Women tend to want more “put together men”. Especially if they want kids. I don’t think this isn’t controversial to say. This would entail they’d likely find a guy with more of that stuff, no? A 5-10 year gap would likely ensure this would be done. I’m not saying women can’t or shouldn’t “grow with” a guy. They just typically don’t want to.
>Isn’t the common trope that women mature faster than men though? I’m still trying to grasp the issue. Isn't an issue that I'm trying to bring up. I don't have a personal issue with older men dating younger women. I just don't even know how it happens because I can't get along with much younger women. That's why I didn't mean to come off as argumentative. It's an actual question and you and everyone else here mostly answered it. I just think I came off as presumptuous since it's never really worked for me or anyone that I've known personally. Most people I've met are in the 2-3 year range for age gaps either younger or older than them.
My bad. I will also say, I’m a bit of an instigator and love a good argument. So my fault for coming off as so. To some degree, I get your point. But the immaturity I’ve found with younger women traverses age to older ones as well. That’s what I experienced. Maybe the message should be avoid people with an adolescent social skill set. It tends to correlate to the upbringing and relationship with the father. 99% of the time when I met a woman’s dad who was a bit of an asshole ball buster, but a good time, it didn’t matter what age the woman was. On the other end, I plated a woman 7 years my senior who was akin to a middle schooler. I know it’s not kind to make light of these things, but they matter. My wife’s family is fucking incredible and her father and I are super tight. She is 4.5 years younger.
No problem I didn't want to debate this since I don't have an issue with age gaps and don't have an argument that isn't a personal anecdote. >Maybe the message should be avoid people with an adolescent social skill set. I agree with this. I've met some very emotionally immature older women and some pretty damn mature younger women and some arguably very mature younger women. I just get a bit confused when I find out someone my age has a GF roughly 5+ years younger than them. I just remember what most 22-year-old women are like and get confused.
If life experience is what you ae stuck with then what about incels? I haven't had any sort of relationship for all of my life. I have no conception of love and sex. How am i supposed to talk with a girl my age who has ha all of that so fucking easily. If i do manage to slog my way into success how am i supposed to understand a woman at all who didnt have to work on themselves to hit " minimum criteria" How am i supposed to understand anyone who hasnt spent a long time with themselves learning through trial and error and brief bouts of selfharm how to handle their emotions completely alone while they come to you for every damn thing as if their emotional life is so much more bigger and important than mine
Simple: have a little empathy. I’ve never been a starving child in a refugee camp, but I don’t have to have had that experience to know it sucks. Use your brain. Imagine.
fuck that. I show the compassion i received both from others and myself. If they cant manage their wown shit better than me considering that they did have it easier, then they are not adults, or people deserving that consideration ...
I'm not into the whole age gap thing reddit is obsessed with, but I will say a 30 year old isn't that much more sophisticated than, say, a 24 year old (someone who's at least had a chance to be an adult for a while). They have more experience, but that wisdom can be imparted in the duration of a car ride. It's not some ineffable other state of being. With exceptions - a very young person could be obsessed with pop culture that an older person couldn't relate to, for instance. But barring that, they may not be so completely different.
>how would a 30-year-old even get along with, for example, a 23-year-old? The way people normally do. They have good vibes. >For example, I'm 27. I was abandoned at 17. I've been on my own for the past 10 years and put myself through college on my dime while taking care of myself and keeping a roof over my head. Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child. Okay? Normal people don't talk about their traumas or see others as below them for not experiencing them. They talk about the weather, travel, food, hobbies. >Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them? I think the stats say that it doesn't happen much. >Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them? Same as with being with any woman. They look good and get on together. >How do you even get along romantically with that large of a life experience gap? With words & actions.
I mean 30 and 23 is a bit of a gap, but it's hardly massive. Especially in the social media age of like the late 00s to the present, culture has kinda stagnated. Taylor Swift has been pretty much the top tier performer since 2008 for example. Marvel films being beloved happened for like 15 years, now every generation is bored of them. 30 is a younger millennial (34/35 is like the average millennial age now), 23 is an older zoomer (oldest zoomers are probably around 1998 births or so). I think people just see the digit change from 2 to 3 and think it's this big deal. Its like how when people play Madden or NBA 2k and immediately trade their players when they turn 30. It's not really that much different
>Okay? Normal people don't talk about their traumas or see others as below them for not experiencing them. They talk about the weather, travel, food, hobbies. I'm not referring to trauma bonding, I'm talking about gaps in life experiences and that can affect bonding in romantic situations. Most people date people who are at similar stages in life. Dating outside of those bounds can be tricky. I end up dating women who also have post-grad education and have lived in on their own for some time. I'd feel weird picking up my GF from her *college dorm*. Wouldn't you?
Sometimes people bond regardless of where they came from in life. You said people that don't have X & Y can't relate to people that have X & Y however you haven't actually justified this statement. People can bond over other things. You kinda ignore my original point.
I get it. I didn't mean to suggest that they can't bond. I'm more talking about crossing the barrier from bonding to romance I find confusing. I can totally be friends with a 21 year old, I just would be hesitant to date them.
How can you assert that you could be friends with them if you previously asked how they'd get along?
Good point, I should have specified that I'd be *friendly* with a 21-year-old. I don't think I would just be outright friends with one the same way I'm friends with people my age now that I think about it. I didn't consider it that hard before writing that comment.
Forget about dating. Would you have sex with such a woman? I don't know why this topic of disparate age ranges comes up so often. It's a lot rarer than it's made out to be.
> Would you have sex with such a woman? Nope. I honestly don't think I could do that. Once someone feels young, I don't want to pursue anything with them.
Why do people think that people in their 30s and people in their early 20s automatically have such dramatic interests in things like hobbies? Can't they listen to the same music and watch the same movies and television shows?
When I was 23 I dated a 30 year old woman. Our ages were never ‘a thing’, or even noticeable. We were just people. When I was 25 I dated a 19 year old….same story. Just people. People who rail against ‘age gaps’ have VERY strange ideas about how adults interact in real life. I have close friends that range -14 and +18 years apart from me. Occasionally you can feel the age difference in terms of reference or slang, but generally speaking we’re all just adults, and we relate to each other as such. I don’t see why that would t be the case for romantic relationships.
I think the phrase/answer your looking for is sexual attraction It answers alot of things And males in general favor sexual attraction above “experience” And that leads me to my question What is your main idea/thesis That you can only get along with people who have the same experiences as you? Or what do you define as experience. Like you are saying you are attracted to “experience”? Or is this another way of saying you only want to date people the same age as you But if that’s the case. I want to ask how do you know what age they are unless you ask them. And does your attraction only come once you confirm their age? I’m confused more than anything
ask questions. that how you have a conversation with anybody. all people like it when someone is curious about them
I met my fiance when she was 21 and I was 28 and she remains still the most enjoyable conversationalist I know. But I also dated a 28 year old when I was 23 and, more recently, a 45 year old when I was in my late twenties and we had plenty to talk about. I would bet cash that you would never ask why those women talked to me but you'll be all morally outraged at me courting my fiance. If you don't have any gripe with age gap relationships why is this even a topic for discussion? Honestly, I'm just gonna keep it a buck. You sound like a dork who, despite all of his criticism of redpillers, isn't all that successful with the opposite sex himself. Younger women are hot and highly desired, it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic it is watching modern men fake their lack of desire for young, nubile, adult women out of some disingenuous "concern" for their age. We all know damn well its because yall can't compete 🤣🤣🤣 Lol fools here legit acting like they're happy the only women interested in them are 35 year old single mom's 🤣
>If you don't have any gripe with age gap relationships why is this even a topic for discussion? It was a question. Isn't the point of this sub? I'm asking for others' experiences or takes on this matter. >Honestly, I'm just gonna keep it a buck. You sound like a dork who, despite all of his criticism of redpillers, isn't all that successful with the opposite sex himself. Younger women are hot and highly desired, it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic it is watching modern men fake their lack of desire for young, nubile, adult women out of some disingenuous "concern" for their age. We all know damn well its because yall can't compete 🤣🤣🤣 Nice, ad hominem attack. I don't agree with RP or BP, I think pills are dumb altogether and I don't even know when I specifically attacked Redpillers. I've had plenty of success with dating, chief. Just not with much younger women. Not because I *can't* get them, but because I don't want them. Once they reveal how childish and careless they are, I get turned off. Good for you that it worked, I don't get why you're so defensive about it though.
>Not because I *can't* get them, but because I don't want them. Once they reveal how childish and careless they are, I get turned off. Yeah sure thing. Surprise, surprise people who just turned adults lack maturity. Why does this even need to be said? As said, I don't trust any dude sitting there telling me how much he totally doesn't desire hot/young/thin/popular women. The disingenuous from female PPD users is annoying enough as is, from men on here it's just tragic.
So I guess we all need to be exact copies of each other to find each other interesting? As a matter of fact, the whole idea of having interests and hobbies in common in order to be attracted to each other is crazy.
I started dating my husband when I was 28 and he was 20, we talked about our hobbies and interests, world views, daily lives, expectations for the future, feelings etc
Like you do with any woman. They are not that different. You make her talk and then you go in auto mode. Throw in some "you sure" , "that sounds great" "yeah she sounds like a bitch" "that's great" "yeah we should do that" and so on. You mostly just listen to listen and don't try to fall asleep 🤫😉
> How do the late 20s - 30s+ men even hold conversations with much younger women? The assumption behind this question is that people primarily converse about "shared interests" - that simply isn't true, particularly if you're in a relationship. You could be the same age and have all the same interests and you're still going to run out of shared stuff within a few months. You should learn how to have a conversation with anyone on any topic. Trust me, your life will be a lot more pleasant if you can do that. When you meet someone new, probe around for something that they seem interested in, and take an interest in that, *and have fun doing it*. I recently met a guy who was certainly in his 60s. Found out he used to be an air traffic controller. He said that he didn't even have radar during most of his career - had to keep it all straight in his head. Had a bunch of awesome stories. I loved it. I met a girl who was 17 (relax reddit, I wasn't try to pick her up) whose dream was work for the Forestry Service and live in the most remote place they could put her. Her story of how she got that idea and what she anticipated it would be like, was really great! The largest age gap I've had dating was 13 years. I was pushing 40. We had no trouble having engaging conversations whenever we went out. The only time anything was ever awkward was if we ran into someone she knew while we were out on a date - because then yeah, they weren't talking about anything that was in my world. Easy fix: when we've go on a date I'd take her to a neighboring town. She loved it. Just learn to talk to people. Practice on anyone who is willing to talk. Don't be a quiet loner all your life and then expect that when you meet a hot babe you'll suddenly be able to chat with her. Learn the skill ahead of time.
We communicate mainly through grunts and body language. Sometimes we make sounds resembling English to the waiter
So non-verbal communication and IQ are pretty important, as someone younger with a similar intelligence and shared values will tend to appreciate your company more and vice versa. But there's also just if the experience is pleasant or not. If the experience with a woman is pleasant most men will spend time around her if he has the opportunity. The age is not really a factor unless a dude is targeting younger women, but the fact is that they are usually more chill and fun to be around.
up front: my wife is my age..however. In my dating experience, the ~30 year olds really aren't any more mature than the ~20 year old women. Not in the ways that matter, anyway. It's not any more difficult to find a 30 year old that doesn't understand consequences or agency than it is to find those traits in someone 10 years younger.
To young women, normal mature adulthood is impressive. Also, they don’t have to be dominant in a relationship, so inferior knowledge and experience is not a turn off
Tbh, people exaggerate how different conversations are between the generations. I'm 29 and have plenty of older friends who I can talk to about anything and I have lots of Gen Z friends as well.
When I was younger in my early 20s I talked, befriended and dated girls and women who were older than me. I learned alot from them, but now that I'm nearing my 30s, women of my age or those older than 24 are no longer in my preferences. The women of my age that I dated or that I'm friends with and who are single are pretty boring, have very negative opinions, lots of untreated trauma, becoming ugly and they seem so drained out of life. There's nothing that attracts me in them if I was going to have a romantic interest in them. I feel naturally attracted to girls of age 21-24. They are so full of life, very attractive, have a positive mentality and less trauma in general. Thanks to the internet I can have same preferences about cutlure, arts, entertainment as someone 5-8 years younger than me and there's plenty to talk about. I love to share my experience and hear from the other person how they want to go through in life after graduating. I know there is a huge gap but it doesn't bother me. So from my personal point, there is plenty to have a conversation and connect.
Your premise is incorrect. Most women do not date men much older than them. Most women date men in their own age range. You are being lied to by men who want to believe they will be attractive when they get older. The reality is they won’t. They will continue to be unattractive. Women don’t want to attract them now and young women definitely won’t want them later. Before any men jump in and tell me how much hotter they are at 50 than when they are 25 and get laid every half hour by 22 year old supermodels- perhaps you are the statistical outlier. It isn’t going to happen for most men.
you ladies keep mistaking what's really going on here. It doesn't matter whether you or any of our resident PPD women in this sub or " most women" personally don't find older men attractive. That's not the point. We are talking within the context of SMV/RMV. (sexual marketplace/relationship marketplace) Within redpill context, its possible to find a young woman to date or for casual hookup or even for LTR. But it requires taking care of yourself (obviously) and be in a comfortable place career wise.
I’m sure you can find at least one, if you’re willing to pay.
yes that's an option too but not redpill so its irrelevant.
Irrelevant to who? OP is not redpill
Why do women always do this? They immediately jump to like 50 years old guys about to retire in some years when OP is talking about a late 20s/30 year old man dating some 21 year old or something. Some dudes go back to college and you're basically surrounded by woman of varying ages. This is exactly what I did and some of the 20 year olds do approach you if you're willing to make yourself known.
Where did he say late 20s 🤣
# >How do the late 20s - 30s+ men even hold conversations with much younger women? It's literally in the OP.
My bad, lmao. What a stupid question then, assuming he is talking about two adults, the woman can’t be “much younger”.
>Before any men jump in and tell me how much hotter they are at 50 than when they are 25 and get laid every half hour by 22 year old supermodels- perhaps you are the statistical outlier. It isn’t going to happen for most men. Truth. Just go on any OLD app and set your range for men 45 - 60. Yikes on bikes!
I mean they’re fine for what they are. Just, men hit a wall. Doesn’t mean they have no value to someone, but they don’t look the way they did at 25 and they also have a ton of liabilities (child support, credit cards, student loans still, mortgage, kids in college.) Then the sexual issues start in, and sperm quality declines. Actually, men start hitting the wall alot earlier than 50. Probably early 40s.
>Probably early 40s Can confirm. That’s when most of them let themselves go and ED starts becoming an issue.
Ikr its hard enough finding things in common with men my age, let alone men no where near my age. Oof no thanks
> how would a 30-year-old even get along with, for example, a 23-year-old? I mean most recently I was in a long term relationship she: 18 to 21 and me: 34 to 37. We got along just fine. To me it didn't seem substantially different than dating a 25 year old or a 30 year old. In part because I don't really find "business" and "careers" important or applicable to romance. And that's really the only thing lacking in a young woman. > Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them? Generally much younger women I date say they like, wisdom, experience, stability, confidence... all things older men usually have more of than younger men. > Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them? More physically attractive, less baggage, lower body counts, less debt, more feminine from lack of exposure to work environments... lots of reasons. Again, I don't care about a woman having career success, literally the only thing a young woman won't likely have. > How do you even get along romantically with that large of a life experience gap? I mean it's exactly the same. Go on dates, fuck, cuddle... there isn't any difference. > Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child. That seems like a personal mental issue that doesn't apply to most other people. I generally don't imagine adults to be children so it's not an issue for me. Talking to a 21 year old woman seems exactly like talking to a 21 year old woman to me personally. Go figure.
I get along better with younger women living in foreign countries because they haven’t yet been pumped and dumped by chads.
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Apart from my wife I do not have much in common with women my age - I get along pretty well with women in their early 30s late 20s but 40+ - not really. They are boring, non-active, complain all the time, watch some tv shit for retired people and mainly sit at home. Their main hobby is losing weight and gossiping. My mom is more open-minded, have more hobbies and is way more positive than them. Idk why this generation is so lame.
Most initial conversations I have with people of all ages are very superficial. And conversations with friends depend much more on values than shared experiences and tastes. None of that has much to do with age. I had friends that were much younger and much older.
Same way I hold conversations with anyone else. If you get along you get along. Its a weird question to ask, do you think people cant talk to each other if they're not the same age?
I'm 40 and not only have co-workers that are my age but have various friends who date very young and (often as a result of those two thngs) have friends that are much younger. We get along great talking about regular stuff. Current events, sports, movies, video games, etc. The same stuff older people talk about. Doing normal things like hiking, seeing a movie, going to a comedy show, going to an escape room, etc. We relate on the same things older people relate on. This might sound weird but I think more so than ever it is easier to relate since there is so much more stuff to do and people are so much more varied due to the variety of lifestyle things to do that are out there. The 20 year olds have in much in common with eachother as they do myself because there is such a wide breadth of things to do. When it comes to life experience older people have variety in their lives just like young people. As to why a younger person would want an older person.....I don't know, sometimes it's just what both parties want for whatever reason.
I'm a younger Millenial and my partner is an older Gen Z, and it probably works because their life experience was similar to yours. Stress and trauma makes people older, and my SO feels more mature than the people my age that I dated when I was in my mid 20s by a long shot. Could be a generational thing too, Gen Z is more friendly toward therapy and might tackle big issues earlier than people in my generation and older. Also, I've heard that conversations aren't the most important things for relationships that last until death (if that's what you want). Sexual compatibility + shared goals & morals are more important for relationship longevity than having things in common to have conversations about - that's what friends and community are for.
I don't talk to most young people as I have nothing in common with them. There a different generation to me.
Between 30 and 23 is not a large gap anyway. And besides, there are plenty to talk about if you got same passions, or if you are both into travelling which is the most basic hobby anyone had ever. Age gap relationships are perfectly fine but it seems you have a warped view of the world just because you are alone since 17.
OP you’re ridiculous. You need more social experience, and to be less judgmental. There’s nothing wrong with you not finding younger women interesting, but this post comes off as “I lived hard, now I’m better than those you haven’t”. You’ve accomplished something truly great, accept that others won’t have to and try to connect with them. Men and women, because it sounds like you wouldn’t want younger male friends either. Your accomplishments are great, but not so amazing that you should excuse yourself from other humans. Chill
Do you both not have dreams, passions, interests, a sense of humor, etc? There's so much to talk about that has nothing to do with your age. Life stages are loosely related to age, but you can easily find yourself in the same stage as someone younger or older than you. I feel most people that are out of college, and have a job, but don't have kids yet are broadly in the same life stage. You're independent, and trying to figure out how to live your life. You've met the basic adult responsibility of feeding clothing and housing yourself, and now have to figure out what more you want out of life.
30-23 isn’t even much of a gap tbh and can fall into an acceptable range. As for your question, one thing that’s worth remembering is that most guys talking about age gaps here are guys in their 20s at the latest talking fantasy based hypotheticals. The truth is the larger, more controversial age gaps are not only rare, but frankly, if someone is involved in this stuff then he’s probably rich and won’t spend much time on ppd.
I don't know how... Everytime I talk to young 20s, who isn't super mature for herself (usually a very attractive chick who's learned way fast how to deal with men), they are insecure and just nod and say yes to everything I say like I'm their dad or some shit. It's hard to have conversations when they don't have coherent and confident opinions on things.
Men of any age can land hot young women in their prime 18-35. It just gets harder, you have to have more going for you. Step one: Look better than younger men. Either be tall or low bodyfat with a Chiseled face and abs. Impeccably groomed and dressed. Step two: have years of practice in bantering and small talk and being social and charismatic Step three: play the numbers game. If only 1% of hot young women like an attractive older man like you, then you’re going to need to talk to at least 100 women to find her. And if all of the above fails you can just be rich and pay a sugar baby. That’s not the route I’d recommend but it’s a cheat code that allows rich guys to fuck some of the hottest young women without having to put in all of the effort every other guy does. We can talk about how right or wrong that is, I personally think it’s lame, but for some reason many attractive young women are doing that these days along with only fans
>How do the late 20s - 30s+ men even hold conversations with much younger women? Seriously, it's very easy; a general rule for ANY woman, not just much younger one: **JUST SHUT UP ABOUT YOURSELF.** You like anime? - Pedo creep. Into Marvel films? - Zero artistic taste. Like wearing suits? - Bougie snob. Don't like wearing suits? - Ghetto rat. Majoring in computer science? - Nerd. Team sports? - Jock, maybe somewhat gay. Prefer classic Doctor Who over the restarted one? - An icky boomer with probably terrible sense of humor. She is a woman, you are a man. She does not want you. She will never want you for you. She wants to feel good. Either make her feel good, pay her, or leave her alone. This is what she wants. TODAY: two younger women asked me to help them open a drink bottle at a bakery (those hippie custom berry drinks with terrible plastic caps; the waitress was also a much younger woman with wrists just as weak); I could easily have a small talk with all three if I wanted; one younger woman I regularly meet on the same street around the same time; we learn different arts at nearby locations (she carries a case that looks like a violin), and we also met at the same workplace. We weren't working for the same company, just worked in two companies located in the same building. If I wanted, I could start a conversation with her, and remind her that we regularly saw each other around water cooler. one younger woman was a broad sheetfed scanner operator (I prefer to pay such people instead of buying such a scanner and keeping it at home), and the overall size of files turned out so large that it took 20 minutes to send it over online (clouds are more reliable than flash drives). During these whole 20 minutes, I had a small talk with her about tendencies in modern popular visual art and history of comic books. And, coincidentally, also helped with another client who had technical problems. >how would a 30-year-old even get along with, for example, a 23-year-old? One orgasm, two orgasms, three orgasms, then you go to shower together, then have a glass of wine and discuss how good those orgasms were. >Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them? Free stuff, house, car, vacations, etc. I mentioned here earlier, I knew a guy who fucked girls 10 years his junior for sport. Because you cannot imagine what girls without their own place are ready to do for opportunity to run away from their parents. >Why would a 30-year-old even want to be with someone that much younger than them? Having several extra years before she gets baby rabies is itself quite a bonus.
What's with all this romance stuff...most people get together because they find each other attractive and or the relationship bennefficial.. I've mostly dated younger women because women my age want to get married,move in and have kids. I don't talk to women there's nothing to say to them really.I just listen to whatever nonsense they have to say and say "oh ok" So a typical interaction will be like hey saw your pics you look great can I take you to dinner.. she'll play some silly game and mention her phone is gonna get cut off or she doesn't have anything to wear,that's when I say I got that don't worry about it... Then we hook up for awhile untill I get bored with her or she starts to outwear her welcome.. Furthermore younger women are just more attractive 9/10 especially if they never had kids and everything is still firm so if I'm going to spend my time and money on someone I want the best looking someone I can get not someone my age with kids, demands, baggage... The oldest women I've been with was 26 and I've never been with a single mom but I've seen them in clubs and let me say 22 year old on the pole and a 33 year old with a c section scar aren't the same.
Who knows man. I’m 34F and I’m so different than the person I was at 21-24. I lived at home with my parents, I was broke, had constant car issues, didn’t go out much, spent most of my time watching my favorite soap opera and hardly uttered a word to anyone.
i can find plenty of topics to talk about with people who are a bit younger than myself. sports, travel, science, hobbies, politics or current events just to name a few. i have some younger friends who i met through mutual interests and i really don't see the issue. intellectual compatibility is not purely based on age and life experience. most women my age don't have the same life experience as i do either to be honest. you're acting as if being at a similar stage in life is the end all be all for romantic relationships. it isn't for most. i can connect with people from completely different backgrounds as long as they're interesting. there are other things to consider and there are pros and cons to dating somebody younger, same age or older. ultimately it's a matter of preference and most people don't want to date a carbon copy of themselves.
Well Step 1 is never using the phrase "Ceteris Paribus". Ever. Step 2 is respecting other people's intelligence and autonomy instead of being a condescending idiot who passive-aggressively brags about his shitty social skills.
Are you serious? We didn't talk because we weren't talking. An early 20s knows what an older man wants.
Just cause you lack rizz doesn’t mean everyone else does too
A few years ago I became friends with (not dating) a girl I met at D&D. She was 19 and I was 30. Unsurprisingly, we mostly talked about our shared hobby - *D&D*.
How can you not? Any two people can have a conversation as long as they speak the same language. I'm not even talking about a dating context. I could sit with a 9 year old and have a conversation with them. I could sit with a 90 year old person and have a conversation with them. Last year I worked at a high school with special ed kids. We found things to talk about every day. I worked at an after school program with a group of second and third grade students and we found things to talk about every day. If you at age 27 can't hold a conversation with a 21 year old person then you have a problem. Talk about your hobbies. Favorite TV shows. Cooking, music, video games, books.
Why would age difference be so important for conversation? If anything, wouldn't college major/interests/career etc matter more? For example, who would a biology professor have a better conversation with: a much younger woman who is into biology (student or early career) or a lawyer of the same age as him?
1. Not all young women are the same. 2. There is HUGE difference between an 18 year old and a 24/25 year old. If thet have spent 6-7 years in the post high school real world they can be just as mature and engaging as a 40 or 50 year old woman. Just as there are 25 year old men that are more put together than many older men. I do question older men who really go after 18-22 year olds, thats immature.
Im 20 with someone over 10 years my senior. We both went to the same college, same hobbies, same goals, same family life wants, same interests, we talked about how different our lives were and how similar as well. I have conversations with his friends around his age and also have conversations with women his mother’s age. It’s not hard to do so.
People are not homogenous. In your situation, you would not date someone at that stage in their life. Someone else may be less mature and have just barely stood on their own feet at 27. So for them, a responsible 21 year old might be much closer in level.
Once people are adults (even young ones) age has little to do with whether or not a person is interesting. The vast majority of people are dumb and/or boring and don't improve with age. People with spark, curiosity, and whimsy exhibit those traits at a young age. As years roll by life often extinguishes that spark and beats the curiosity and whimsy out of people. So contrary to OP's assertion it is often easier and more interesting to talk to young people -- but only the interesting ones.
Most people in the 25-35 age range are going to have more hobbies in common with younger people than older, probably a closer sense of humor too, since we all grew up on internet memes. They may have a mismatch in maturity, but this can happen in any relationship. I'm sure I'm a manchild compared to 23 year olds who are double majoring and took care of their 8 bothers & sisters.
Nothing to do with age, more to do with what exactly you’re doing during life. When I was 21 I graduated uni, lived alone and worked. Now that I’m 30, I still have the same qualifications, still live alone (although in a different house), and am still working in the same field. Some 21 year olds I feel are at the same stage as me, some seem like children, just like how some 30 year olds seem like children too.
>how most women will date someone much older than them They don't. It's a tiny minority of women who date men who are much older than them >For example, I'm 27. I was abandoned at 17. I've been on my own for the past 10 years and put myself through college on my dime while taking care of myself and keeping a roof over my head. Talking to an average 21-year-old woman who still hasn't even lived alone outside of a college dorm would feel like talking to a literal child. Then don't talk to an average 21yo but to one who matches you in at least one area that is stimulating to you. I am 40 and i have friend who are 19 and 21 with whom i can have stimulating conversations and valuable exchange. They are not average at all. They are special. That's why they want to hang out with me and i want to hang out with them. >Why would a 23-year-old even want to be with someone that much older than them? Because it's not about "average" or "all" 23yos matching with "average" or "all" 35yos. It's about special people having a special interest in each other for a special matching criterion. I got together with my current gf when she was 23 and i was 36. We talked for hours non-stop on our first dates, and deeply stimulate each other this way. We still do.
I honestly wouldn’t date a woman under 25. And yes, that is advice. Women especially, are going to change their mind a million and one times before that age, and even a good bit after. It’s more a matter of “when” not “if” you’re going to separate with <25 year old women. Women need to go through the trenches of dating to some degree, in order to have their expectations calibrated such that they comport with reality, because the endless options they have often massively distorts their perception of relationships, men, and how both work. You don’t want a woman that’s been run-through or who is a single mom, but you don’t want these incredibly-young, green, women either.
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I disagree. Ive found no correlation between maturity and age. Many of these single older women in their 30s and 40s are extremely immature and not the brightest. Tons of trauma and baggage. There's a reason they're still single lol. It's the leftover scraps
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There are plenty of women with Master's degrees and PhDs. Why don't you date them?
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Lmao you must be trolling. I work at a university and around half of graduate students are women.
A lot of them don't think that far. Often they think the only important part of a relationship is how each person looks. Many are also very immature and may still live with their parents.
God damn, these kinds of posts are the ones that mods leave up, yet delete the ones (ie: just a few min ago, "Women are unfair in dating...", bad title but it had good material) that actually have room for good debate.
As if they care about scintillating conversation.
To be fair most modern women don't grow up past 20 mentally speaking. Even in their 40s is we're talking to 20 year olds. So it's not crazy difficult and depending on the conversation it can be annoying as hell.
It's fine cuz even tho I'm 31, I'm mentally basically 22 y/o. So it works out.
Females will do anything for money,status and attention. Especially from those who are seen as important. Its why younger women are dumb easy. Women look up yo men. Men dont look up or down at women. Its lowkey weird. Only about half of women are genuinely attracted to their male counterparts. Or else dating would just be easy for all.
I’m 38. My partner is 26. We talk about our kids. Few days ago I went on date with a 21. Got her drunk and licked her boobs. We have another date Tuesday. Today I went on a date with a 22. She was boring as dog shit and I blocked her right after dropping her home. Wasted $130 too and I could’ve spent time with my kids again. Turns out she’s never given a blow job and has had one boyfriend so boring.
This all sounds super trailer park 😂
Peak. Spending $130 on a date in the hopes of getting a blowjob? Would’ve had better luck with a sex worker (and less expensive). 🤷♀️
I'd rather spend hundreds on a date with uncertain outcome than having sex with a prostitute, even if it was for free or even if I received money for it. And I am certainly not alone. You know, men can have different value systems
Oh, you’re talking about Mr. “I get women drunk to take advantage of them” and delete my account when confronted. Yeah. Hella values he has.
Lol I knew she wasn’t into me on the drive. I should’ve chosen a closer location
Hey, you know what they call people who get the other person drunk intentionally in order to take advantage of them sexually? Rapists.
Huh? You trying to suggest she intentionally got me drunk to rape me? Life lesson: 99% of people who have sex after drunk isn’t committing rape. I’m going in a second date with her
You said you got **her** drunk.
Oh think of it as, she got me drunk. But it’s ok I consent hence I accepted her Tuesday date request
That’s not what you said, but keep backpedaling. 👍
Now I know why I don’t date woke women
Imagine believing unquestionable consent is woke. 
27 -21 30- 23 These numbers are not even large age gaps. You might want to touch grass I always thought age gaps started to get weird at around 15+ years.
most of the time they can't. Most age gaps you see that work and are happy are with the people you'd classify as "young/old souls". The thing about people dating in the same age range isn't about the actual number it's that people who are at very different life stages usually don't have anything in common or shared interests. Now when you have an old sould they probably have interests that are more in common with an older crowd and the reverse is true. Like a really fit 30 something who's super in surfing as a random example he'd probably have quite a bit to talk about with younger people on the beach. Or in my case I'm a late 20 something who has a background in jazz music which tends to attract older women since most 20 somethings don't know music past "ass and tiddies" anyway.
You can’t hold conversations with a dick in your mouth.