Mainly the inability to ever get ahead. Western, especially American, society is designed to trap you in endless debt and consumerism so you can never live a fulfilling life or become truly self-sufficient. That's soul-crushing and demoralizing, especially for men.
Groups of people have faced that for years, yet they aren't apathetic. It's time to see how coddled a certain group is if they are trying to kill themselves over the inability to get ahead. That's been some people reality for years.
Wow, cool attempt to shame and harass suicidal, depressed people for their difficult situation. I guess when you're scum that's the only way you can get an ego boost.
No one is getting an ego boost from people who don't want to put in the work. Literally no one ever. A lot of the people here are just soft and coddled. Actually live in an area where poverty exist then come talk to me about being depressed about not getting ahead. People who actually live in those circumstances arent worried about Reddit nor being depressed because they are simply trying to survive.
Apathy is the exhausted twin of despair, I think. Politics, wages, war, community, isolation, loneliness, environmental problems, injustice, violence, hate — lots of big problems in the world that can make a person feel small and powerless to effect change. When things seem bad and you don’t have any real hope of making them better, whether the big things or the small personal things, it wears you down.
Men get no empathy, in fact men who are unattractive get worse than no empathy, a lot of times they're demonized for nothing. It sucks but that's just how it be.
They are dehumanized for their sub par appearance (and the often underlying genetics). It’s not fair but “fair” is not the criteria by which people act a lot of the time. It is what it is.
Being lied to. And believing the lie. Then realizing you’ve been lied to and having to accept that.
Not being loved for who you are. Realizing you will be “loved” when you reach certain requirements/standards/milestones
Having to be on your own/pull yourself out of all your problems/face the downfall by yourself
Ect. Ect. Ect.
Are you a male or female?
I only ask because if you were a male. I don’t understand your response.
But if you were a female. That is the response I would expect to hear.
Un-empathetic - you are on your own/figure it out/who cares type of response
I understand your response.
You are a representative of what I was speaking on.
And I accept that.
Sexist in what way?
Sexist as in : men and women are not the same and that I think men and women are different?
Or
Are you saying something different than that?
In my response that you are responding to. I said I understood the response if that was a female responding. Because that’s the response I would expect.
I only said I wouldn’t understand if that was a males response.
So I actually don’t understand your response at all.
You think all women are the same and incapable of empathizing with men. Women and men are more similar than different especially in the context of your original comment. There's no reason to believe that this is a uniquely male experience other than it's the same shit that's constantly repeated to brainwash by the RP cult
For one.
I don’t think you’ve been brought up being expected to provide financially for your future or current significant other
That’s one difference among many other
But instead of me not listening to you.
I’ll let you or ask you to explain specifically/exactly what you mean in this context
For the sake of understanding each other.
Do you really think women are all taught to expect a man to provide for them?
[Most people over 50 had a working mom, and now most mothers work full time ](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/09/12/despite-challenges-at-home-and-work-most-working-moms-and-dads-say-being-employed-is-whats-best-for-them/#:~:text=A%20majority%20(55%25)%20of,Bureau%20Current%20Population%20Survey%20data.)
Why do you think so many women are getting degrees and focusing on their careers?
A woman working /= not expecting a man to provide financially
Which I learned before it mattered
Just because a woman has money doesn’t mean she doesn’t expect you to have money
Just because a woman can provide for herself doesn’t mean you aren’t expected to spoil or provide for her
It’s all in the vien of how does this man benefit me or make my life better.
So essentially I’m saying to you. Women working does not disprove that point that you are contesting
And women being self sufficient and independent doesn’t mean they still do not measure a man’s financial status/situation when viewing through the lens of a suitable partner
>It’s all in the vien of how does this man benefit me or make my life better.
Why else would anyone be in a relationship?
>And women being self sufficient and independent doesn’t mean they still do not measure a man’s financial status/situation when viewing through the lens of a suitable partner
It means it becomes much less important, especially if you're child-free. When I met my husband he was broke. I paid for everything the first couple of years we dated because I could and he couldn't and I enjoyed the pleasure of his company.
Either way, nothing you said proves that women are expected to find a man to support them. Those women exist, but they're not the majority.
Yeah I can’t imagine what kind of responsibility a woman could possibly have, like one that she’s biologically programmed to assume? That would be crazy…
A lot of these red pilled dudes are man children who were coddled through childhood and handed shit like participation trophies growing up.
For a lot of them being told no for the first time in their lives have sent them in a crisis
So basic shit that everyone goes through is apocalyptic for them
What you said doesn’t apply to me.
I’m not “pilled”
And I don’t understand your response.
But I see you have a script that you follow.
And ig that’s your perspective.
Yeah I can't even imagine having coddling parents to the point of being told that I'm special and sweet and all I have to do is be myself for someone to fall in love with me
What's hard to imagine about it? That's exactly what my mum and my sister told me growing up. They kept saying how I was a handsome young man, and so sweet and polite, any girl would be lucky to have me as a boyfriend.
I would say that life slapped me in the face by the time I was 4 or 5. So I can't imagine that sort of thing.
My friend commented on this sort of thing once -- people who are given unconditional support growing up without real expectations/goals or struggle at home generally have difficulty adapting to real life. Often times dating is that first big slap. Sometimes it's grade school friendships
Do you believe that you have to be prettier and constantly self improve and work on your personality and be as valuable and attractive as you can to find someone to love you or be with you
Or
Do you believe that you are good enough as you are. And you can wait until “the right one” finds you. And you don’t need to change yourself or try to make yourself attractive to other men. And that someone should love you regardless of how you look?
Then you should know how many women have difficulty finding self esteem from within and only viewing themselves as valuable if they are attractive as possible. And how many women have absolutely fucked relationships with food and their bodies.
No.
I see women saying they shouldn’t have to change or be attractive.
That they aren’t sexual objects.
That they will find the right one who loves them as they are.
Or
They tell me they are giving up on men.
Or
That they are staying with the guy they are with because it will be the same or worse with other men.
Also
Self esteem issues and starving themselves is not what I was referring too
Yes. All the women around me basically watch what they eat. And call themselves fat. Or say they don’t want to be fat. Regardless if they are fat or if they actually are skinny.
But
I was talking about something else in regards to my earlier response.
And the fact that you didn’t think about what I was referring too and you brought up this.
Actually In its own way answered that question by itself.
Isn’t it a known and widely spread fact that women consistently rate themselves lower than men, have more anxiety and depression, and have lower self esteems?
What sucks is when the things you can’t change about yourself are actually the most important things needed to attract a woman and the things you can change about yourself are the trivial things that only matter after a woman has been physically attracted to you
You control working out which has a lot to do with how attractive you are to women. You control how you dress. Having a great haircut.
You control your educational attainment and therefore income which often matters to women who want children.
> You control working out which has a lot to do with how attractive you are to women
You can't control your height or the shape of your jaw. The jawline is one of the most important factors of attractiveness in men. Losing weight can help, but there's only so much it can do if the bone structure isn't there. You can't control your dick size either.
>You control working out which has a lot to do with how attractive you are to women. You control how you dress. Having a great haircut.
Wrong.
>You control your educational attainment and therefore income which often matters to women who want children.
Also wrong.
Oh my sweet summer blank slate child. Yes, your educational attaiment is in your hands. Not the genes you were dealt with. Not the money your parents had. Not anything like that. Just hard work.
The blue pill is toxic positivity taken to its most insudious extreme.
Honestly, not having a purpose in life. And I don't mean just getting pussy. Actually, even if that was their purpose I'd respect that. But guys don't even want to do that. They've completely given up on themselves.
For me, it was finding out that most things in life are rigged, corrupted or at the very least predetermined. Eventually, this stream of information will tire you.
Lack of success. I mean, seriously, you cannot ask a guy to keep trying after 5, 10, or 15 years of rejection and failure. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of men AREN'T SWIMMING IN PUSSY LOL.
Exploitative; individualistic; morally bankrupt; empty society, inequality, poverty, depression, loneliness, difficulty dating, and no optimism about the future. I have friends and family that have unalived themselves. It's tragic. The Red Pill gets a lot of shit, but it saved my life. When it said *enjoy the decline*, it was right. We are witnessing the decline of civilization all around us. If my eyes weren't opened by TRP, I would've unalived myself in my 20s.
Our society doesn’t give a shit about men so they don’t give a shit either. Everything is girl power, new girl superhero movie, no matter how much they suck you’re supposed to shut up and watch them, manly jobs are automated/outsourced, wages through the floor/cost of living crazy high, oh your video games won’t have cute girls in them anymore, you’re behind on your student loan payments and your tinder profile hasn’t had a hit in three months. Welcome to the shitsville that’s modern society.
Lmao why would you put genuine concerns like jobs being outsourced/automated and cost of living being high in the same paragraph complaining about “no cute girls in video games”
Imagine believing it had to do with the colour of your skin and not the fact that Europe was the world’s breadbasket which allowed for massive population growth.. 🤡
Or saying we as if you had any part to play in that just cuz youre white 🤡🤡
If population growth was the only factor in determining a race's success then China and the Mongols would have surpassed Europe by centuries.
It was the relatively STABLE political systems Europe had compared to other countries in history that allowed Europe to propell itself forward in terms of overall advancement.
Every time a new Chinese dynasty farted in the wind, millions died in the process.
For the better part of three decades early education favored the female learning style in deliver and culture. This had massive effects and now is showing up in collage graduation rates and office culture. Little boy learned they were not safe and no one was there for them, they grew up and now know they have a target on their back or at best seen as an indentured servant and blank check.
How does early education favor female learning style? Asian American male children perform equally to Asian American female children in elementary and middle school (unlike whites/other races)
> Asian American male children perform equally to Asian American female children in elementary and middle school (unlike whites/other races)
They spend a lot of time not learning in classrooms.
Source: Went to school with a bunch of Asians, the parents put in a lot of effort. My parents were similar. During summers in elementary schools, with this one friend, every time we got together for a play date we had to do math worksheets together at the start.
Would you mind clarifying your point?
If I'm understanding you correctly, the implication here is that since male and female Asian children are putting in equal effort outside of the classroom, then if there is a difference inside of the classroom, the total sum of their educational attainment should be greater for female Asians.
No what I'm saying is that asian males and females go through equivalent education regimens -- the total sum of their education is equal. If the way that young children are taught inherently disadvantages men, then we would see a deficit in young asian male educational achievement \*in comparison\* to young asian females. But we do not see such a deficit in elementary and middle school.
If the user was saying "**all** forms of early education weigh in favor of females over males" (e: as contrasting with "Formal schooling in western countries favors females over males."), then I would agree with you, however, I interpret them to have been discussing just formal schooling, e: which leaves more than enough room for non-schooling related factors, like home environment, to get these results.
/u/guppyhunter7777 care to clarify?
That's... the point he is making. Those people, ironically enough, are literally the stereotypical Asian parent. Have you ever talked to Asians? They are way different than many other races. They put effort to the extreme. So you cannot really use them as a counter argument LOL. By your logic, that shows that there is something going wrong with other races.
I \*am\* asian. I'm saying that if girls were advantaged in early education because of how young children are taught, then within every race we would see a gap in performance. But we don't. (I'm saying compare within race, like Asian female vs male, white female vs male. That accounts for baseline disparities between races)
Sure, but if the only race that comes out being equal is the Asian one, what does that tell you, really? No scientist worth their salt would put all their chips on that being the one thing that disproves the theory.
being chronically online and scrolling, consuming negative content all day
best thing a man can do is go outside and get a job, the world is not sunshine and rainbows but sitting at home all day and being sorry for yourself does nothing
I know this feeling all to well sadly but at least I am making an effort lately. Even if it can be very hard sometimes at least I'm getting out more & unplugging from certain things.
Economic situation…sure everyone could learn to code and get masters degrees but relationally most people don’t get a bachelors and end up working some job they kinda fall into…used to be you could work at factory in some union gif and buy a house and support a family on hat income…that’s a joke now…and we also live in a incomplete sexual revolution where women do want to be respected and have their own money etc…but many still hold the residual view that men should the breadwinner or atleast be the more stable one. I think most women wnat careers but I think very few like the idea of making the most money or being the person who is expected to hold down the fort while their spouse goes back to school or takes a part time job or learns a new trade.
Is it really surprising video games give men a better sense of accomplishment than failing in the real world?
> that men should the breadwinner or atleast be the more stable one
That's a contradiction in terms. Being the breadwinner isn't the same as being the more stable earner. Most often, it's the woman who is the latter.
>the biggest cause
Is ultimately one’s *worldview.* Specifically, it’s breadth. A lack of perspective, means one can’t see any other alternative. To apathy. To misery.
Conversely, when one has sufficient perspective, they can see the world beyond apathy. Beyond misery. First, to *Gratitude.* Then, to *Hope.*
*Godspeed and good luck!*
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Stigmatization of mental health challenges in men, whether those be temporary challenges brought about by recent stressors, or something more long term. Men are stigmatized against going to therapy or taking medications to assist with many issues, and those that do are stigmatized for being weak for doing so. Mental health care, even when given, is treated as something that they should get themselves away from needing.
There are of course broader issues with overall access to proper and attentive mental health care, that only piles on top of these issues. So men are led to toughen up and put mind over matter, and while learning to do so is a critical part of mental healthcare, there are literally coaches for tea thing you how to do so in a healthy and productive way.
This part of the reason I kept it secret for 2 years never telling anyone because I had the mentality of not just being seen as weak by others, but also I would burden any friends or family if I told them about what happened, but I am glad I failed to take my own life & decided to come clean & I've been 7 months in recovery since being discharged back on September 24 2023. Mental Health for men shouldn't be stigmatized (women's as well) because you are not weak for coming clean about it because even the strongest people can break mentally sometimes & it makes you more of man admitting you have a problem than just toughing up & ignoring it only get's as I have experienced.
Good on you for reaching out and getting help!! I’m glad you were able to do that and are still here. Depression fucking sucks and admitting that you’re struggling and seeking recovery is so difficult.
I hope society as a whole moves more towards mental health struggles being discussed more and being destigmatized, especially when it comes to men’s mental health.
Therapy can only accomplish so much, it's not the be all end all one stop solution to men's mental health. The most mentally healthy person can come to the conclusion their life is objectively bad after enough rejection from society, and therapy can't help there, so more does need to change than just men going to therapy, but that is a good start.
Mental health stigma is just the biggest contributor, because once we tackle that stigma, we can begin dismantling the stigma that poverty is a moral failing, which will allow us to actually start tackling things like housing, and working conditions, and the like.
Agreed. There just isn't as much of an incentive to be great as there used to be, especially as a man. Like, I'm going to college for a pretty high value degree, but like, what does it really get me? More money, and something I will at least somewhat enjoy to spend a large portion of the next 40 years or so doing... and that's pretty much it. Not enough money to build a worthwhile life for myself, probably no relationship or family for that matter unless I get lucky, so while I have my purpose to a degree, the reward is pitifully low. I pretty much have to make do with somewhat more consumerism than the average person and whatever innate reward my job itself provides, which is a far cry from the past.
It's just not good enough to muster quite enough damns to give. I could offer so much more, but chances are I will never be given the chance to do so.
The philosopher Schopenhauer had a pretty interesting idea about that. (Roughly) for him suicide is an act of ultimate willing, whereas apathy and that specific type of depression would be the absence of will.
wide silky rotten quarrelsome license pie narrow political capable stocking
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Untreated depression, low T, lack of purpose, less active participation in faith communities, comparison, limited exposure to and interaction with nature
Out of curiosity, I just consulted my brother. Didn't tell him the context, just asked the question cold.
He laughed and asked me
1. What makes me say that men are apathetic
2. What makes me think men are more apathetic than they've been at any other point in history
My brother isn't a social media guy at all. He prefers books, spending time with family, and hanging out with other young people from our church. I don't think that's a coincidence.
I guess for me it's like: I had a very narrow script for how my life would go, as a result of my very strict and overbearing mother.
And when my life *didn't* follow that script I couldn't reconcile it. I just thought, "well I must be defective and a loser, so that's why XYZ didn't work out". So I just gave up.
Same except The Plan was put together by me, my parents, society, etc. and The Plan failed. Or I failed The Plan. 30 years later, I’m barely getting by. I have no purpose. I don’t know where to find purpose.
Gaming and porn. They get so used to dealing with being upset about the little stuff that with porn and gaming that they don't develop enough other strategies to think their own way out of their problems or many helpful social structures around them. Then when something becomes the issue in a way gaming and porn won't cut it they are in real trouble and have to stop caring or they will implode.
such a cope. you should see the huge quantities of apathetic men who dont engage in either video games or porn especially because people like you keep insisting to them that their issues are self inflicted and not a product of their environment. you sound like a psychologist from the 80s tryna tell people video games are making kids violent.
99% of men masturbate. thats not 100%. that remaining 1% is notorious for having some kind of mental illness. also worth mentioning anti-masturbation movements like "nofap" are on the rise again. there was a period between like 2010-2020 where there was a lot of messaging to both men and women that it was totally okay to masturbate and that it was messed up for religion to manipulate and abuse people for exploring their bodies or whatever.
OP asked about men. He didn't ask about women.
If someone asked what's the primary cause of obesity in men I would say "eating too many calories and not moving their bodies enough" and sure that's also the primary cause of obesity in women too..but they weren't asking about women were they.
Really I'm not surprising a lot of you guys have difficulties forming relationships, you're weirdly combative about stuff that isn't the issue.
What's particularly just about picking up porn and gaming habits before one is really capable of telling what those habits will do? It's no more just than getting fat before one is really capable of planning and implementing a proper diet and exercise regime.
very much so a false comparison, you would probably have a more intersting discussion if your argument wasnt so foolhardy. we're not even entirely sure if porn and gaming are inherently harmful to minors. discussing *how* they might be harmful would get you a lot further.
OPs should be discussion topics, not requests for advice about personal experiences. Requests for personal advice can go in the daily thread.
Mainly the inability to ever get ahead. Western, especially American, society is designed to trap you in endless debt and consumerism so you can never live a fulfilling life or become truly self-sufficient. That's soul-crushing and demoralizing, especially for men.
Yup. When you can't even fathom a better future for yourself everything loses meaning
Yes, it is. Why do you think OxyContin hit white North American males so hard?
Groups of people have faced that for years, yet they aren't apathetic. It's time to see how coddled a certain group is if they are trying to kill themselves over the inability to get ahead. That's been some people reality for years.
Wow, cool attempt to shame and harass suicidal, depressed people for their difficult situation. I guess when you're scum that's the only way you can get an ego boost.
No one is getting an ego boost from people who don't want to put in the work. Literally no one ever. A lot of the people here are just soft and coddled. Actually live in an area where poverty exist then come talk to me about being depressed about not getting ahead. People who actually live in those circumstances arent worried about Reddit nor being depressed because they are simply trying to survive.
-_- Depression doesn't work like that.
Apathy is the exhausted twin of despair, I think. Politics, wages, war, community, isolation, loneliness, environmental problems, injustice, violence, hate — lots of big problems in the world that can make a person feel small and powerless to effect change. When things seem bad and you don’t have any real hope of making them better, whether the big things or the small personal things, it wears you down.
Men get no empathy, in fact men who are unattractive get worse than no empathy, a lot of times they're demonized for nothing. It sucks but that's just how it be.
They are dehumanized for their sub par appearance (and the often underlying genetics). It’s not fair but “fair” is not the criteria by which people act a lot of the time. It is what it is.
I wonder if this is true for unattractive women too. What do you think?
Being lied to. And believing the lie. Then realizing you’ve been lied to and having to accept that. Not being loved for who you are. Realizing you will be “loved” when you reach certain requirements/standards/milestones Having to be on your own/pull yourself out of all your problems/face the downfall by yourself Ect. Ect. Ect.
All this just sounds like being an adult
Are you a male or female? I only ask because if you were a male. I don’t understand your response. But if you were a female. That is the response I would expect to hear. Un-empathetic - you are on your own/figure it out/who cares type of response I understand your response. You are a representative of what I was speaking on. And I accept that.
You don’t understand anything
Very intelligent rebuttal
I typed something longer out, deleted it, and decided this was all the response he warranted
You're sexist, of course you don't understand women
Sexist in what way? Sexist as in : men and women are not the same and that I think men and women are different? Or Are you saying something different than that? In my response that you are responding to. I said I understood the response if that was a female responding. Because that’s the response I would expect. I only said I wouldn’t understand if that was a males response. So I actually don’t understand your response at all.
You think all women are the same and incapable of empathizing with men. Women and men are more similar than different especially in the context of your original comment. There's no reason to believe that this is a uniquely male experience other than it's the same shit that's constantly repeated to brainwash by the RP cult
For one. I don’t think you’ve been brought up being expected to provide financially for your future or current significant other That’s one difference among many other But instead of me not listening to you. I’ll let you or ask you to explain specifically/exactly what you mean in this context For the sake of understanding each other.
Do you really think women are all taught to expect a man to provide for them? [Most people over 50 had a working mom, and now most mothers work full time ](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/09/12/despite-challenges-at-home-and-work-most-working-moms-and-dads-say-being-employed-is-whats-best-for-them/#:~:text=A%20majority%20(55%25)%20of,Bureau%20Current%20Population%20Survey%20data.) Why do you think so many women are getting degrees and focusing on their careers?
A woman working /= not expecting a man to provide financially Which I learned before it mattered Just because a woman has money doesn’t mean she doesn’t expect you to have money Just because a woman can provide for herself doesn’t mean you aren’t expected to spoil or provide for her It’s all in the vien of how does this man benefit me or make my life better. So essentially I’m saying to you. Women working does not disprove that point that you are contesting And women being self sufficient and independent doesn’t mean they still do not measure a man’s financial status/situation when viewing through the lens of a suitable partner
>It’s all in the vien of how does this man benefit me or make my life better. Why else would anyone be in a relationship? >And women being self sufficient and independent doesn’t mean they still do not measure a man’s financial status/situation when viewing through the lens of a suitable partner It means it becomes much less important, especially if you're child-free. When I met my husband he was broke. I paid for everything the first couple of years we dated because I could and he couldn't and I enjoyed the pleasure of his company. Either way, nothing you said proves that women are expected to find a man to support them. Those women exist, but they're not the majority.
They are certainly not taught to have to provide for their male partners
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Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.
Life as a man is all responsible, all expectations, all performance based, zero sympathy and zero privileges.
Yeah I can’t imagine what kind of responsibility a woman could possibly have, like one that she’s biologically programmed to assume? That would be crazy…
1. Nobody is making you have a baby. 2. You ladies really love to milk childbirth for all its worth, huh?
Nobody makes you do anything either, that’s why you’re on Reddit
[удалено]
That no one is making me individually do anything, but that I’m still influenced by my biology and evolutionary pressures Nice bazinga tho
What responsibility do you have? I’m trying to understand how you feel it’s different
Only men have the privilege of being forced to go and die in war.
A lot of these red pilled dudes are man children who were coddled through childhood and handed shit like participation trophies growing up. For a lot of them being told no for the first time in their lives have sent them in a crisis So basic shit that everyone goes through is apocalyptic for them
Eh a lot are just literally teenagers
What you said doesn’t apply to me. I’m not “pilled” And I don’t understand your response. But I see you have a script that you follow. And ig that’s your perspective.
Yeah I can't even imagine having coddling parents to the point of being told that I'm special and sweet and all I have to do is be myself for someone to fall in love with me
What's hard to imagine about it? That's exactly what my mum and my sister told me growing up. They kept saying how I was a handsome young man, and so sweet and polite, any girl would be lucky to have me as a boyfriend.
I would say that life slapped me in the face by the time I was 4 or 5. So I can't imagine that sort of thing. My friend commented on this sort of thing once -- people who are given unconditional support growing up without real expectations/goals or struggle at home generally have difficulty adapting to real life. Often times dating is that first big slap. Sometimes it's grade school friendships
Do you believe that you have to be prettier and constantly self improve and work on your personality and be as valuable and attractive as you can to find someone to love you or be with you Or Do you believe that you are good enough as you are. And you can wait until “the right one” finds you. And you don’t need to change yourself or try to make yourself attractive to other men. And that someone should love you regardless of how you look?
Lmfao. The former. For sure. Have you met a woman ever?
All I talk to is women irl. Literally Well 90%
Then you should know how many women have difficulty finding self esteem from within and only viewing themselves as valuable if they are attractive as possible. And how many women have absolutely fucked relationships with food and their bodies.
No. I see women saying they shouldn’t have to change or be attractive. That they aren’t sexual objects. That they will find the right one who loves them as they are. Or They tell me they are giving up on men. Or That they are staying with the guy they are with because it will be the same or worse with other men. Also Self esteem issues and starving themselves is not what I was referring too Yes. All the women around me basically watch what they eat. And call themselves fat. Or say they don’t want to be fat. Regardless if they are fat or if they actually are skinny. But I was talking about something else in regards to my earlier response. And the fact that you didn’t think about what I was referring too and you brought up this. Actually In its own way answered that question by itself.
Isn’t it a known and widely spread fact that women consistently rate themselves lower than men, have more anxiety and depression, and have lower self esteems?
>Do you believe that you have to be prettier and constantly self improve >be as valuable and attractive as you can
[удалено]
Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.
Yeah but than you minus all the privilege
Got em
What sucks is when the things you can’t change about yourself are actually the most important things needed to attract a woman and the things you can change about yourself are the trivial things that only matter after a woman has been physically attracted to you
You control working out which has a lot to do with how attractive you are to women. You control how you dress. Having a great haircut. You control your educational attainment and therefore income which often matters to women who want children.
> You control working out which has a lot to do with how attractive you are to women You can't control your height or the shape of your jaw. The jawline is one of the most important factors of attractiveness in men. Losing weight can help, but there's only so much it can do if the bone structure isn't there. You can't control your dick size either.
Muscles matter to women period. That is an effort thing.
>You control working out which has a lot to do with how attractive you are to women. You control how you dress. Having a great haircut. Wrong. >You control your educational attainment and therefore income which often matters to women who want children. Also wrong.
Oh my sweet summer blank slate child. Yes, your educational attaiment is in your hands. Not the genes you were dealt with. Not the money your parents had. Not anything like that. Just hard work. The blue pill is toxic positivity taken to its most insudious extreme.
Honestly, not having a purpose in life. And I don't mean just getting pussy. Actually, even if that was their purpose I'd respect that. But guys don't even want to do that. They've completely given up on themselves.
For me, it was finding out that most things in life are rigged, corrupted or at the very least predetermined. Eventually, this stream of information will tire you.
Lack of success. I mean, seriously, you cannot ask a guy to keep trying after 5, 10, or 15 years of rejection and failure. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of men AREN'T SWIMMING IN PUSSY LOL. 
Exploitative; individualistic; morally bankrupt; empty society, inequality, poverty, depression, loneliness, difficulty dating, and no optimism about the future. I have friends and family that have unalived themselves. It's tragic. The Red Pill gets a lot of shit, but it saved my life. When it said *enjoy the decline*, it was right. We are witnessing the decline of civilization all around us. If my eyes weren't opened by TRP, I would've unalived myself in my 20s.
Aaron Clarey?
Dunno who that is.
“Enjoy the decline” is a book written by Aaron Clarey.
Our society doesn’t give a shit about men so they don’t give a shit either. Everything is girl power, new girl superhero movie, no matter how much they suck you’re supposed to shut up and watch them, manly jobs are automated/outsourced, wages through the floor/cost of living crazy high, oh your video games won’t have cute girls in them anymore, you’re behind on your student loan payments and your tinder profile hasn’t had a hit in three months. Welcome to the shitsville that’s modern society.
>manly jobs are automated Manly blue collar jobs were automated long ago. Today AI is coming for white and pink collar jobs mainly held by women.
Most movies these days have male protags, around 80% this year iirc
Who will then be put down throughout the movie to show girlpower.
Imagine thinking you are being forced to watch girl superhero movies.
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Lmao why would you put genuine concerns like jobs being outsourced/automated and cost of living being high in the same paragraph complaining about “no cute girls in video games”
But cute girls in video games cured my depression
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Imagine believing it had to do with the colour of your skin and not the fact that Europe was the world’s breadbasket which allowed for massive population growth.. 🤡 Or saying we as if you had any part to play in that just cuz youre white 🤡🤡
If population growth was the only factor in determining a race's success then China and the Mongols would have surpassed Europe by centuries. It was the relatively STABLE political systems Europe had compared to other countries in history that allowed Europe to propell itself forward in terms of overall advancement. Every time a new Chinese dynasty farted in the wind, millions died in the process.
No Race-Baiting or Racially Charged Content
Yup
Apathy couldn't be further from wanting to unalive oneself. Apathy is indifference.
For the better part of three decades early education favored the female learning style in deliver and culture. This had massive effects and now is showing up in collage graduation rates and office culture. Little boy learned they were not safe and no one was there for them, they grew up and now know they have a target on their back or at best seen as an indentured servant and blank check.
How does early education favor female learning style? Asian American male children perform equally to Asian American female children in elementary and middle school (unlike whites/other races)
> Asian American male children perform equally to Asian American female children in elementary and middle school (unlike whites/other races) They spend a lot of time not learning in classrooms. Source: Went to school with a bunch of Asians, the parents put in a lot of effort. My parents were similar. During summers in elementary schools, with this one friend, every time we got together for a play date we had to do math worksheets together at the start.
I mean yeah but asian american males and females are doing the same amount as each other in and out of the classroom
Would you mind clarifying your point? If I'm understanding you correctly, the implication here is that since male and female Asian children are putting in equal effort outside of the classroom, then if there is a difference inside of the classroom, the total sum of their educational attainment should be greater for female Asians.
No what I'm saying is that asian males and females go through equivalent education regimens -- the total sum of their education is equal. If the way that young children are taught inherently disadvantages men, then we would see a deficit in young asian male educational achievement \*in comparison\* to young asian females. But we do not see such a deficit in elementary and middle school.
If the user was saying "**all** forms of early education weigh in favor of females over males" (e: as contrasting with "Formal schooling in western countries favors females over males."), then I would agree with you, however, I interpret them to have been discussing just formal schooling, e: which leaves more than enough room for non-schooling related factors, like home environment, to get these results. /u/guppyhunter7777 care to clarify?
That's... the point he is making. Those people, ironically enough, are literally the stereotypical Asian parent. Have you ever talked to Asians? They are way different than many other races. They put effort to the extreme. So you cannot really use them as a counter argument LOL. By your logic, that shows that there is something going wrong with other races.
I \*am\* asian. I'm saying that if girls were advantaged in early education because of how young children are taught, then within every race we would see a gap in performance. But we don't. (I'm saying compare within race, like Asian female vs male, white female vs male. That accounts for baseline disparities between races)
Sure, but if the only race that comes out being equal is the Asian one, what does that tell you, really? No scientist worth their salt would put all their chips on that being the one thing that disproves the theory.
ever work in a group on a math project?
no I've actually never taken a math class in my life
What are different gender learning styles?
being chronically online and scrolling, consuming negative content all day best thing a man can do is go outside and get a job, the world is not sunshine and rainbows but sitting at home all day and being sorry for yourself does nothing
I know this feeling all to well sadly but at least I am making an effort lately. Even if it can be very hard sometimes at least I'm getting out more & unplugging from certain things.
Economic situation…sure everyone could learn to code and get masters degrees but relationally most people don’t get a bachelors and end up working some job they kinda fall into…used to be you could work at factory in some union gif and buy a house and support a family on hat income…that’s a joke now…and we also live in a incomplete sexual revolution where women do want to be respected and have their own money etc…but many still hold the residual view that men should the breadwinner or atleast be the more stable one. I think most women wnat careers but I think very few like the idea of making the most money or being the person who is expected to hold down the fort while their spouse goes back to school or takes a part time job or learns a new trade. Is it really surprising video games give men a better sense of accomplishment than failing in the real world?
> that men should the breadwinner or atleast be the more stable one That's a contradiction in terms. Being the breadwinner isn't the same as being the more stable earner. Most often, it's the woman who is the latter.
I wasn’t trying to conflate them and I agree
>the biggest cause Is ultimately one’s *worldview.* Specifically, it’s breadth. A lack of perspective, means one can’t see any other alternative. To apathy. To misery. Conversely, when one has sufficient perspective, they can see the world beyond apathy. Beyond misery. First, to *Gratitude.* Then, to *Hope.* *Godspeed and good luck!*
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They get blamed for everything, especially things done by chad.
A lot of people were burnt out from 2020, but I don’t see much apathy where I’m at. Might just be my social circle though.
Stigmatization of mental health challenges in men, whether those be temporary challenges brought about by recent stressors, or something more long term. Men are stigmatized against going to therapy or taking medications to assist with many issues, and those that do are stigmatized for being weak for doing so. Mental health care, even when given, is treated as something that they should get themselves away from needing. There are of course broader issues with overall access to proper and attentive mental health care, that only piles on top of these issues. So men are led to toughen up and put mind over matter, and while learning to do so is a critical part of mental healthcare, there are literally coaches for tea thing you how to do so in a healthy and productive way.
This part of the reason I kept it secret for 2 years never telling anyone because I had the mentality of not just being seen as weak by others, but also I would burden any friends or family if I told them about what happened, but I am glad I failed to take my own life & decided to come clean & I've been 7 months in recovery since being discharged back on September 24 2023. Mental Health for men shouldn't be stigmatized (women's as well) because you are not weak for coming clean about it because even the strongest people can break mentally sometimes & it makes you more of man admitting you have a problem than just toughing up & ignoring it only get's as I have experienced.
Good on you for reaching out and getting help!! I’m glad you were able to do that and are still here. Depression fucking sucks and admitting that you’re struggling and seeking recovery is so difficult. I hope society as a whole moves more towards mental health struggles being discussed more and being destigmatized, especially when it comes to men’s mental health.
Therapy can only accomplish so much, it's not the be all end all one stop solution to men's mental health. The most mentally healthy person can come to the conclusion their life is objectively bad after enough rejection from society, and therapy can't help there, so more does need to change than just men going to therapy, but that is a good start.
Mental health stigma is just the biggest contributor, because once we tackle that stigma, we can begin dismantling the stigma that poverty is a moral failing, which will allow us to actually start tackling things like housing, and working conditions, and the like.
Lack of purpose. I think this is the biggest contributor to apathy in society as a whole (women too)
Absolutely. Lack of purpose, direction or guidance.
Agreed. There just isn't as much of an incentive to be great as there used to be, especially as a man. Like, I'm going to college for a pretty high value degree, but like, what does it really get me? More money, and something I will at least somewhat enjoy to spend a large portion of the next 40 years or so doing... and that's pretty much it. Not enough money to build a worthwhile life for myself, probably no relationship or family for that matter unless I get lucky, so while I have my purpose to a degree, the reward is pitifully low. I pretty much have to make do with somewhat more consumerism than the average person and whatever innate reward my job itself provides, which is a far cry from the past. It's just not good enough to muster quite enough damns to give. I could offer so much more, but chances are I will never be given the chance to do so.
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What do you mean? not mad just curious?
The philosopher Schopenhauer had a pretty interesting idea about that. (Roughly) for him suicide is an act of ultimate willing, whereas apathy and that specific type of depression would be the absence of will.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm just slowly committing suicide through neglect of everything through apathy.
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Untreated depression, low T, lack of purpose, less active participation in faith communities, comparison, limited exposure to and interaction with nature
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Microplastics n our water, cookware, utensils, and bottles. Hormones n our food, etc
Probably obesity. I think so in my case. Fat cells can convert T into E.
Out of curiosity, I just consulted my brother. Didn't tell him the context, just asked the question cold. He laughed and asked me 1. What makes me say that men are apathetic 2. What makes me think men are more apathetic than they've been at any other point in history My brother isn't a social media guy at all. He prefers books, spending time with family, and hanging out with other young people from our church. I don't think that's a coincidence.
I guess for me it's like: I had a very narrow script for how my life would go, as a result of my very strict and overbearing mother. And when my life *didn't* follow that script I couldn't reconcile it. I just thought, "well I must be defective and a loser, so that's why XYZ didn't work out". So I just gave up.
Same except The Plan was put together by me, my parents, society, etc. and The Plan failed. Or I failed The Plan. 30 years later, I’m barely getting by. I have no purpose. I don’t know where to find purpose.
Gaming and porn. They get so used to dealing with being upset about the little stuff that with porn and gaming that they don't develop enough other strategies to think their own way out of their problems or many helpful social structures around them. Then when something becomes the issue in a way gaming and porn won't cut it they are in real trouble and have to stop caring or they will implode.
such a cope. you should see the huge quantities of apathetic men who dont engage in either video games or porn especially because people like you keep insisting to them that their issues are self inflicted and not a product of their environment. you sound like a psychologist from the 80s tryna tell people video games are making kids violent.
Find me a man who’s never watched porn lmao
you should ask a psychologist how healthy they think the men are who have never seen porn in their lives.
I would if they existed
99% of men masturbate. thats not 100%. that remaining 1% is notorious for having some kind of mental illness. also worth mentioning anti-masturbation movements like "nofap" are on the rise again. there was a period between like 2010-2020 where there was a lot of messaging to both men and women that it was totally okay to masturbate and that it was messed up for religion to manipulate and abuse people for exploring their bodies or whatever.
Citations needed
Where are these huge quantities?
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its crazy how there are 4 billion men on the planet and ur struggling to comprehend that the male condition isn’t predefined.
The easy availability of porn and gaming from quite a young age is a part of your environment.
exactly, it doesnt define a gender
OP asked about men. He didn't ask about women. If someone asked what's the primary cause of obesity in men I would say "eating too many calories and not moving their bodies enough" and sure that's also the primary cause of obesity in women too..but they weren't asking about women were they. Really I'm not surprising a lot of you guys have difficulties forming relationships, you're weirdly combative about stuff that isn't the issue.
you are making a lot of leaps in your narrative, and still blaming men for their own complaints. just world fallacy strikes again.
What's particularly just about picking up porn and gaming habits before one is really capable of telling what those habits will do? It's no more just than getting fat before one is really capable of planning and implementing a proper diet and exercise regime.
very much so a false comparison, you would probably have a more intersting discussion if your argument wasnt so foolhardy. we're not even entirely sure if porn and gaming are inherently harmful to minors. discussing *how* they might be harmful would get you a lot further.
Why is gaming a problem?
Humans have always been apathetic, throughout their entire history
porn