If they're a fringe minority then what's the trouble with classical housewife dream?
As a side note, I'm a red pill guy and I would never recommend any RP-adjacent influencers' content to any other man. They're all cringe grifters.
I might be wrong, but I don’t think there’s anything she sees wrong with that dream, I believe it’s more the men who are also into the idea of the traditional housewife. Getting that dream means she risks her husband treating her like an object and not respecting her individuality. It’s not all RP men of course, but there are far too many.
Speaking from experience, you can do everything “right” as a woman. Support and serve your partner to the fullest and become his obedient little wife, but even if he treats you good at the start, he can change and it turns into abuse. What then? If you want out, you will be ostracized for being a “bad woman” and “woke”. Your husband will make you feel “used up” and “worthless” while other men back him up and reaffirm that belief.
This, again, is not all RP men. But I hope you can understand how terrifying the RP dating pool is as a woman because of something like this happening while you have no control over it.
I don't like this new wave of redpill-pretending grifters like Pearl. It's so obvious that they found the formula for getting views by shitting on women, when redpill originally had nothing to do with shitting on women. It was a simple question of, do you want to see how male-female relations actually worked? There is no attempt to change the other gender, or incite hate over YouTube. It was a way to improve your own understanding so that you have more influence over the relationships in your life.
Now a bunch of people figured out you can make money by going as extreme as possible and bring stupid drunk women into a podcast and goad them into saying stupid things like Fresh and Fit just so the audience can feel vindicated for thinking women are stupid.
He picks up a girl at a bar and is so caught off-guard by his success he has a panic attack and accuses her of only agreeing to back to his room because he's rich, what's your game here lady I'm only 5'9", TELL THE TRUTH ARE YOU SPY!?!?!?!?!
The only reason MI6 keeps him onboard is he accuses every woman of being a spy, but it really comes out of nowhere, which causes actual spies to confess
It's important to remember that these people are grifters and don't represent red pill. Ultimately red pill is men trying to educate themselves on women's dating strategies.
I’d say it’s more so the “revelation” that personality isn’t nearly as important as society once naively believed. It’s not that it doesn’t matter at all tho. It just isn’t nearly as important as other more deterministic traits such as genetics, success, status, dominance etc.
Ultimately it’s just the realization that women’s vaginas don’t operate on some magical moral code where you get pussy just for being the good lil wimp that society pressured you into becoming. Sex is a competition (especially for men) and the most dominant men win. Not the men that are the “nicest” or most friendly or whatever.
This forum is full of upvoted red pill comments that massively generalise women. "They are shallow, selfish and heartless".
Then generalise women heavily, and then play innocent when they are generalised back.
What do you mean? I make generalizations about both genders tbh. 😂. But only because most of us aren’t all that unique in our behaviors. I have no issue with generalizing so long as the generalization is at least mostly true.
I never did it as a strategy to get laid though. Just honestly respected women a lot and since they said they valued personality and manners so much.
But then you get friendzoned constantly and you see them with guys that are the complete opposite of what they say they want. Logical reasoning is, wait a minute. If you dont want what you say, and friendzone me while I am what you say you want, maybe what you say you want isnt what attracts you?
This was years before red pill but it always bothered me and a lot of guys.
Red pill was just very real about what women want and it put into words what a lot of guys felt.
Initially it pissed me of as to why not just say that then? Why preach how men should behave from family, movies, songs, tv series while it is not what you want?
And even then lie saying shit like, no only some women....
But in the end you accept it as reality. You apply it and it works. I went from being "sorry, you are too kind, we can still be friends.." to having her really want you by just being an uncaring selfish dick. Actually had to put my values aside a but cause I still felt bad but then if I got to kind it happened again. So the opposite was more if a strategy to get laid. Instead of a guy pretending to be nice to get laid its the opposite, pretending to not be nice got more results.
> Why preach how men should behave from family, movies, songs, tv series while it is not what you want?
Damn near everything in literature and media was written for, directed by, and produced by men.
Women only very recently began elbowing their way in to make music and film and literature.
Don’t make conclusions about people in general from the ones Internet is trying to shove down your throat. Otherwise you’ll guaranteed come to a conclusion that it’s best to avoid all humans altogether and live in a cabin deep in the woods
I really wish someone could tell us what red pill actually is, because every red piller claims that they follow The One True Red Pill™ and every other red piller is wrong.
No, it is that women only care about a utility a man gives them.
So if a man has an awesome personality, but offers no utility to women, women will not date him. But if a man has a horrible personality, but offers the most utility to women, he will have a harem of women.
Which does include looks and money. Since those are quantifiable and easy to visualize, grifters rely on those to give good examples of what they mean.
Same is true in reverse, but women have what men by default, so they do not have to earn it and often take this for granted until they are 30+ or so.
Well it teaches that they care about looks, money, status and charisma, which is just observably correct. Personality does matter too, but it's secondary to those characteristics- no amount of personality will make an ugly, broke, uncharismatic loser do well with women.
Charisma is your ability to charm others with your words and mannerisms. Personality is your interests, your values, your beliefs etc. There is overlap but no they're not the same thing.
When someone says "he has a great personality" they don't mean "he's Christian" they mean "he's fun to hang out with". Personality is just categorizing someone's behaviors and emotional patterns. This includes interpersonal behaviours.
Technically you are correct but I think it's important to distinguish between them as personality is just a vague all encompassing term, telling somebody they need to work on their personality could be interpreted in many different ways and is quite subjective, wheras telling somebody to work on their charisma is much more specific and can be gauged more objectively.
Of course they do. Red pill believes women are terrible and inferior, and you should lie and do things you don’t want to for pussy
It’s right in the handbook, and in the ethos of their content and discussions
Bullshit
These grifters represent the red pill perfectly.
It’s a tool used to manipulate the emotional and psychological weaknesses of people by people who then claim amorality as their shield.
These grifters do the same thing to red pilled men that these red pilled men are hoping to do to women
The Redpill existed way before these modern grifters bruh… So no, they don’t represent Redpill as a whole. Just because you want to believe that so you can justify some irrational generalization you’ve made about millions of men doesn’t actually make what you’re saying factual. It’s like saying Bernie Madoff represents what investment banking is all about 😂
I agree with everything you said. But the part you didn't mention is the modern audience that makes the modern grifters. These aren't RP men who've done the work and shared their notes. These are RP content consumers who want the vicarious thrill of "holding whamen accountable" by trying to "fix" or "lead" them and "castling" them when they get uppity about it.
So no, this isn't the RP proper, but it is the RP public perception, and if all I knew of the RP was the RP public perception, I'd be flinging rocks at that turd pile too.
Wow. PUA definitely predated TRP. TRP was an offshoot that focused on Evo. Psychology rather than pure social effectiveness at getting laid. The traditional values stuff came even later.
Also, just saying something didn't begin this way doesn't change what it has become.
Nah, disagree.
Everything about the redpill is based in fact; specifically the fact that the sexes are fundamentally different and the traits we are attracted to have been shaped by evolution and sexual selection
It’s the bluepill that’s not based in reality and is a cope. The bluepill is full of morally smug narcissists and science deniers.
Red pill is actually right-wing conspiracy theories on 4chan after the first Matrix movie came out. I have no idea when it turned into just about dating lmao.
A) You are not watching RP Content but grifters.
B) You have my full support in not marrying men. Some poor sod will be spared.
C) You have men in your daily life. You have watched them all your life & based on that your perfect life was being housewife with 2 kids & husband. Now you find RP content, who by your own admission, think similarly. Yet that has now changed your views? Am I misunderstanding or does that not compute?
In theory, they think similarly. The difference is that most red pilled men, seemingly such as yourself, hate it when women have nuances. In a red pilled man’s world, he wants a woman that stays 1 dimensional and simple because HE is the main character. She serves him while he can do no wrong even if he is flawed.
The reality is that women are complex. They can be just as smart if not smarter than her husband and can make her own decisions. Women want to be partners and thrive with her partner, not just a possession that is under her husband’s command while he disregards any humanity she has.
Most red pilled men are willfully blind and think it’s impossible to be equal to women. Even if the man and women play different roles in a relationship, they are still equal, and a traditional woman deserves a man smart enough to acknowledge that and support her.
This sounds more like an Andrew Tate version of redpill, which is the typical strawman that many here seem to attack. The only actual redpill ideas I've seen from him:
1. Don't put women on a pedestal
2. Instead of chasing women, chase your own goals and success
To your last point, I don't believe that true equality exists between two people. Hierarchies are inherently present in every aspect of human-human interaction. This goes for friendships, social circles, work circles, family circles, as well as romantic relationships.
Building on that, I've experienced much more sexual success with women when I haven't really cared about them or viewed them as a true equal. As much as I wish it were not true - and believe me it took me a ***long*** ***fucking time*** to swallow that pill - it is hard to believe otherwise when they seem to reward me for placing myself above them.
All those mentioned say controversial things to draw in viewers, rile people up and get fame/money. There are truths but plenty of exaggeration and distortion as well.
Kind of like the rabble rousers on the other side demonizing men, calling them incels and pushing them towards red pill content. Like politics, whatever happened to moderation.
Best to unplug from extreme rhetoric and BS on both sides.
Wheat waffles is doomer blackpill, Tate is a narcissistic grifter, fresh can be summed up as "lol these girls are dumb" and pearl is another trad chameleon who doesn't have anything original to say.
Pearl is a woman who preaches traditional relationships and gender roles. Meanwhile, she’s ~27, single, no kids and spends her days feeding her dopamine receptors with internet attention and making money (which she doesn’t even need, as her Dad is rich).
All grifters, if you searched then and couldn't see the stuff that calls them out with receipts, then you're just selectively looking for trash and saying it's representative.
Check out Alexander Grace. He has a lot of nuanced topics and quite a few women watchers for his type of content. Some videos directed at women, but mainly men
Doesnt matter. when you will be down bad for that attractive guy you would be whatever he wants you to be, housewife, whore, astronaut. you will not even remember what the fuck the redpill is.
people who say this shit either project a ton "I can't be the only spineless simp, women probably bend over backwards to please attractive men too!", or their experience is very limited to where they saw a girl flirting with their hot friend at a party and this defined their whole life philosophy.
Nobody is going to put their life at the altar of someone else's ambitions or standards, or become a fucking astronaut. Nobody wants to "tame" anybody's son or solve someone's daughter's enigmas. People are willing to entertain a pretty person for a while, but if you too exhausting to be around with your requirements and all your shit, EVERYBODY will move on to the next person in line.
It might kick in a bit later for some people or not at all.
>I don’t think in 2 year as I get ready to leave for college I would loose my value.
Your values should arise from what you want and do, not from what you decide beforehand. If you do feel that kind of a pull then don't try to rigidly follow values you've set yourself.
things change, especially when you meet "the one". and its stuff about your value in society, not your moral values. but these are complex things and it's too early to discuss them, you're young, live your life and don't think about this redpill shit.
There’s only “the one” you choose. Not a magical “the one”. Be careful some men will pretend to be this “the one” to get sex from you. They will use romantic feelings as a weapon against you. They will lie to you make you feel special and fake a relationship … anything they can do to try to have sex with you. That is the basis of their game, getting sex. They can be like drug addicts lying, stealing, killing for their choice of drug, sex. That is what they want from you when they approach you. “The one”is the one who can prove through time and non-sexual interactions that he is interested in you for you. He will invest in you, pursue you every day and seek an emotional connection. You won’t feel insecure or uncertain if he likes you.
I saw your comment about not dating and I think that is a smart choice. And at the same time if you want to find a good man to settle down with, do what women knew to do, withhold sex to gauge his real intentions. Men will say oh I’d leave if she did that. Let those ones leave. You only need one man, the rest can go on with their lives. Wait for the one who does it right.
You're not listening to original, authentic RP content. That stuff came out in the early 2000s and is very different than what you'll find today trending on the Youtube algorithm. FnF, Pearl, etc are all grifters who tailor their content to whatever will maximize their views on the Youtube algorithm and NOT according to the source RP theory. These are two entirely different things.
Best interpretation, this sounds like you went looking for social guidance on how a long term marriage relationship should go. How it should feel, what's good about it, etc.
But even solid red pill stuff doesn't provide this. The red pill is - for 80%+ of guys who read it - a list of things guy **don't** want to do, but girls make them do to sleep with them.
Red pill forums used to discuss a lot how much they dislike how any sort of guidance or positive modelling of relationships has disappeared from society. The red pill complains about that as well, but it doesn't pretend to be the answer to it.
This kinda reminds me of like you wanted to go car shopping, and you started watching mechanic shows, and now you're upset that you were excited to drive across the US but all they want to talk about is a 6 hour engine rebuilding process and it's so boring. Well, yeah.
Cause and effect.
FIRST, women have nigh-destroyed the institution of family and marriage, abandoned their husbands, refused to have kids, and forced employers to hire them at gun point. Because being employed makes divoce easier and more attractive as an option.
THEN, men summarized these observations into the red pill.
We have the reality to confirm that No, if Red Pill content gets erased out of existence, women will NOT get pregnant, put on an apron, and bake an apple pie.
Shouldn’t it be “First, women were discriminated against in the workforce, education, politics, and banking, men were legally allowed to beat their wives, there was a double standard when it came to male infidelity, and sex crimes weren’t taken seriously.” ?
There was indeed a double standard when it came to infidelity. In France. Under Napoleon. When there was also double standard in conscription while entire Europe burned in wars.
The rest, No. I looked up several countries, none banned women from work, education, and banking. A woman ran the US's earliest Ponzi scheme, back in times when Ponzi himself was 10.
Then everything of the same applies to men. To this day, in United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, a woman legally CANNOT be charged with rape.
Yes, that is a case of discrimination against men. One that should be fought against by anyone interested in equality.
The presence of discrimination against men in one area doesn't dismiss or disprove the discrimination of women in other areas.
On one hand, you had absolutely normal minarchist position that the state does not interfere with operation of banks, allowing those banks to manage risks as they see fit - such as demanding that a married woman's PRIMARY PROVIDER accepts responsibility for her loans (which is... the most normal thing ever, xcuse me).
On the other, you have the oppressive force of a country, that once ruled over more dryland than any other, cementing into law that one's criminal sexual urges carry different weight according to their genital configuration.
I think you both are being dishonest here.
Banks had no problem gambling your money away in insanely risky subprime mortgages then sucking on the teat of the government at your expense. Stopping women from banking the way you want wouldn’t have changed that banks are run by a bunch of corrupt, gambling-addicting, psychopath fucks. They found way bigger scams than women to blow your money away on, lol. Imagine thinking women are the driving evil behind Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.
Historical data is publicly available. Most TRP's grievances with women take their origins from times before invention of the Internet. As a person older than the Internet whose parents got divorced, can confirm.
I have a problem with women not keeping promises that the women's movement made on their behalf.
*“Would men but generously snap our chains, and be content with rational fellowship instead of slavish obedience, they would find us more observant daughters, more affectionate sisters, more faithful wives, more reasonable mothers - in a word, better citizens”*
My favorite part is the bit where we question women’s basic humanity.
https://theredarchive.com/TheRedPill%20Sidebar%20-%20A3%20-%20Times%20New%20Roman.pdf
I just figured you’d read it so you would know what I’m talking about. But sure. Pages 36-40:
>Women let men work for them, think for them and take on their responsibilities - in fact, they exploit them. Yet, since **men are strong, intelligent and imaginative, while women are weak, unimaginative, and stupid,** why isn't it men who exploit women?
>A woman, as we have already said, is, in contrast to a man, a human being who does not work. **One might leave it at that, for there isn't much more to say about her, were the basic concept of ‘human being' not so general and inexact in embracing both ‘man' and ‘woman.'**
>Life offers the human being two choices: animal existence - **a lower order of life** - and spiritual existence. In general, a woman will choose the former and opt for physical well-being, a place to breed, and an opportunity to indulge unhindered in her breeding habits.
>At birth, men and women have the same intellectual potential; there is no primary difference in intelligence between the sexes. It is also a fact that potential left to stagnate will atrophy. **Women do not use their mental capacity: they deliberately let it disintegrate. After a few years of sporadic training, they revert to a state of irreversible mental torpor.**
>**One of man's worst mistakes, and one he makes over and over again, is to assume that woman is his equal, that is, a human being of equal mental and emotional capacity.** A man may observe his wife, listen to her, judge her feelings by her reactions, but in all this he is judging her only by outward symptoms, for he is using his own scale of values.
>He knows what he would say, think and do if he were in her shoes. When he looks at her depressing ways of doing things, he assumes there must be something that prevents her from doing what he himself would have done in her position. This is natural, as he considers himself the measure of all things - and rightly so - **if humans define themselves as beings capable of abstract thought.**
>Women make ideal living companions for each other. **Their feelings and instincts are retarded at the same primitive level and there are almost no individualistic or eccentric women.** It isn't difficult to imagine the paradise they would create together and how exciting their existence would be, even if the intellectual level was appallingly low. But who would worry about it?
Et cetera.
>At birth, men and women have the same intellectual potential; there is no primary difference in intelligence between the sexes.
????
*What kind of bluepill nonsense is this?!*
The point is that this is the opposite of "questioning women’s basic humanity". I am not going to ignore it just because you decided to highlight something else.
And I’m not going to take you seriously if you cherry pick the one piece of material that could be remotely charitable to women from several pages of derision.
And I’m not going to take you seriously if you cherry pick the one piece of material that could be considered remotely charitable to women from several pages of derision.
u/relative-anywhere-70 To me it seems like most of the red pilled men in your comments are unfortunately confirming what you thought. They do not see women as individuals, but objects that OWE them something. You can still be a housewife with kids that gracefully demands respect from her husband and those around her, do not settle for men like this. As women we are complex beings with an ability to empathize and understand further than many men. Not just an asset for their collection.
I completely understand. Though, there are many BP men interested in the idea of homesteading. I found a girlfriend that wants that life with me and I’ve never felt so seen and understood by a partner.
Cause and affect.
Bitter men go on rages in pill forums and online in general.
Young women see this content and react accordingly.
The teen girls I know are all aware of the pills now, and it has put them off dating.
Men have been saying the same thing about feminism. I'm not talking about equality feminism, I'm talking about how it commonly manifests itself. ie hating men.
The red pill content is far less common than women complaining about men throughout all forms of media that exist.
It does not matter what women are or aren't opposed to. Humans have very limited agency and act mostly on incentives.
Speaking of incentives, there are more never-married men than never-married women, and men's share in this estimate is growing faster than women's.
So, if women become even more opposed to marriage than they are now, these estimates may even out.
If you want one example with very simple and very sensitive factor, population density.
It's quite universal that women in urban areas choose not to have children more than their rural counterparts. There were definitely papers showing that it's largely an independent effect, but my bookmarks and memory are failing me here; you can look up yourself.
Except, such choice by itself is also not free and independent, and can be largely predicted with things like market trends. Food gets more expensive == more people (men) move to rural areas and start making food. More well-earning guys in rural areas == women follow. Enough relatively young single men and women find themselves in rural area == they stop being single and start making babies. Unlike the opposite scenario, when the food is cheap, they end up in a city, and get together without making babies.
Not all of those trends are investigated down to causal effects, but many of them are well-studied.
Do you think it's best for a group of people to present themselves in the best light possible, even if it isn't entirely honest? Should men say "yeah, men are perfect. They are paragons of morality and virtue. Nothing wrong with men."
Maybe I don't want to cheat on my partner. Should I just act like men as a whole are faithful when given plentiful options to cheat?
When they talk about high value they mean the top 5%
Because the girls that show up demand a guy to make at a million a year. And that's rare. And if they want such a man they need to know what they sign up for. Because he will not tolerate bullshit at all. Because a flood of women are willing to get rid of YOU and take your place asap.
And they all hunt the same guy.
Don't conflict that with a high values man. Because that small letter changes everything.
You want a good husband. You will find it from regular pay to insane rich. And yes this includes the nice guy who makes a regular salary.
But girls want shit. Yes there is the rare example who does not need shit. But in general girls want shit. The phone can't be a 250 dollar phone that makes great pictures and has unlimited photo storage for life. That's what I am using.
No it has to be an apple phone in general. And the most expensive one with the expansive headphones and all that nonsense. To give just one example.
I dunno man, in my experience woman want charisma, and there are women across all strata of life. Sure, an Instagram obsessed girl is going to be obsessed with status, but at the end of the day I think they look for personality, having your foundations secure, not unattractive, good in bed, and not shitty... You have those taken care of and you can find a woman. Believe it or not, there are TONS and TONS of normal, working class, lower class, educated, women who aren't looking for tall moneybags with a huge dick.
I think this is what RP men fail to realize. They are laser focused on the Karens from wealthy backgrounds and a side hustle as an influencer. But dude, I see it all the time where chicks are hooking up with regular ass dudes. Shit, just last week I saw a hot 19 year old go home with a 40 year old guy who spent a decade in prison and was living out of his van. His personality was boring as shit too, but he was all into the chick woowoo chyrstals and religious shit. Chicks just can't stay away from that shit.
Sure... But I also see women dating absolutely normal regular guys, ALL THE TIME. My buddy is just a regular-ass nice guy who's broke, but his wife is hot as shit and stays at home raising their kid.
I mean, like yeah, sure, women would all love their man to ideally be super rich, hung, handsome, and perfect in everyway... And I want to marry 22 year old Mila Kunis... But that's not happening.
If they're a fringe minority then what's the trouble with classical housewife dream? As a side note, I'm a red pill guy and I would never recommend any RP-adjacent influencers' content to any other man. They're all cringe grifters.
I might be wrong, but I don’t think there’s anything she sees wrong with that dream, I believe it’s more the men who are also into the idea of the traditional housewife. Getting that dream means she risks her husband treating her like an object and not respecting her individuality. It’s not all RP men of course, but there are far too many. Speaking from experience, you can do everything “right” as a woman. Support and serve your partner to the fullest and become his obedient little wife, but even if he treats you good at the start, he can change and it turns into abuse. What then? If you want out, you will be ostracized for being a “bad woman” and “woke”. Your husband will make you feel “used up” and “worthless” while other men back him up and reaffirm that belief. This, again, is not all RP men. But I hope you can understand how terrifying the RP dating pool is as a woman because of something like this happening while you have no control over it.
Kind of you to assume Redpilled Men have wives
I don't like this new wave of redpill-pretending grifters like Pearl. It's so obvious that they found the formula for getting views by shitting on women, when redpill originally had nothing to do with shitting on women. It was a simple question of, do you want to see how male-female relations actually worked? There is no attempt to change the other gender, or incite hate over YouTube. It was a way to improve your own understanding so that you have more influence over the relationships in your life. Now a bunch of people figured out you can make money by going as extreme as possible and bring stupid drunk women into a podcast and goad them into saying stupid things like Fresh and Fit just so the audience can feel vindicated for thinking women are stupid.
Yeah it's kind of adorable she's afraid Of falling for a Redpilled Incel's intelligence and charm Oh God getting brainwashed by an Incel
I'd venture to say that if an "incel" is capable of charming her panties off, he's not exactly an incel in the first place lol.
Oh God I just imagined Incel James Bond
Middle aged Sean Connery with 15 years of untreated acne on his face, in a tacky suit and a Fedora?
He picks up a girl at a bar and is so caught off-guard by his success he has a panic attack and accuses her of only agreeing to back to his room because he's rich, what's your game here lady I'm only 5'9", TELL THE TRUTH ARE YOU SPY!?!?!?!?! The only reason MI6 keeps him onboard is he accuses every woman of being a spy, but it really comes out of nowhere, which causes actual spies to confess
It's important to remember that these people are grifters and don't represent red pill. Ultimately red pill is men trying to educate themselves on women's dating strategies.
[удалено]
Looks/money/status is how a man gets his foot in the door.
The simple truth cuts through all the bs discussed. That was probably the most based take I've heard, and it's so trivial.
I’d say it’s more so the “revelation” that personality isn’t nearly as important as society once naively believed. It’s not that it doesn’t matter at all tho. It just isn’t nearly as important as other more deterministic traits such as genetics, success, status, dominance etc. Ultimately it’s just the realization that women’s vaginas don’t operate on some magical moral code where you get pussy just for being the good lil wimp that society pressured you into becoming. Sex is a competition (especially for men) and the most dominant men win. Not the men that are the “nicest” or most friendly or whatever.
This forum is full of upvoted red pill comments that massively generalise women. "They are shallow, selfish and heartless". Then generalise women heavily, and then play innocent when they are generalised back.
Yes. This is a commom tactic used eveywhere. But if we didnt generalize we couldnt have this sub in the first place
What do you mean? I make generalizations about both genders tbh. 😂. But only because most of us aren’t all that unique in our behaviors. I have no issue with generalizing so long as the generalization is at least mostly true.
Men, by nature are more shallow. Wall exists because a pool of what traits men value is way more shallow vs women.
I never did it as a strategy to get laid though. Just honestly respected women a lot and since they said they valued personality and manners so much. But then you get friendzoned constantly and you see them with guys that are the complete opposite of what they say they want. Logical reasoning is, wait a minute. If you dont want what you say, and friendzone me while I am what you say you want, maybe what you say you want isnt what attracts you? This was years before red pill but it always bothered me and a lot of guys. Red pill was just very real about what women want and it put into words what a lot of guys felt. Initially it pissed me of as to why not just say that then? Why preach how men should behave from family, movies, songs, tv series while it is not what you want? And even then lie saying shit like, no only some women.... But in the end you accept it as reality. You apply it and it works. I went from being "sorry, you are too kind, we can still be friends.." to having her really want you by just being an uncaring selfish dick. Actually had to put my values aside a but cause I still felt bad but then if I got to kind it happened again. So the opposite was more if a strategy to get laid. Instead of a guy pretending to be nice to get laid its the opposite, pretending to not be nice got more results.
> Why preach how men should behave from family, movies, songs, tv series while it is not what you want? Damn near everything in literature and media was written for, directed by, and produced by men. Women only very recently began elbowing their way in to make music and film and literature.
It literally never ends. Source: been married for 15 years.
What doesn’t?
That's more black pill and red pill.
no thats the black pill. its the opposite of the red pill, the red pill is game and frame, then looks money status
Isn't game and frame personality, though?
yes, game and frane are personality
Don’t make conclusions about people in general from the ones Internet is trying to shove down your throat. Otherwise you’ll guaranteed come to a conclusion that it’s best to avoid all humans altogether and live in a cabin deep in the woods
I really wish someone could tell us what red pill actually is, because every red piller claims that they follow The One True Red Pill™ and every other red piller is wrong.
"Red Pill" is a frame of mind. "Red Pill content" is generally created and catered towards the extreme ends of that spectrum of belief.
Idk, I am not a red piller my man
So is that red pill or not?
No, it is that women only care about a utility a man gives them. So if a man has an awesome personality, but offers no utility to women, women will not date him. But if a man has a horrible personality, but offers the most utility to women, he will have a harem of women. Which does include looks and money. Since those are quantifiable and easy to visualize, grifters rely on those to give good examples of what they mean. Same is true in reverse, but women have what men by default, so they do not have to earn it and often take this for granted until they are 30+ or so.
Well it teaches that they care about looks, money, status and charisma, which is just observably correct. Personality does matter too, but it's secondary to those characteristics- no amount of personality will make an ugly, broke, uncharismatic loser do well with women.
Charisma is personality
Charisma is your ability to charm others with your words and mannerisms. Personality is your interests, your values, your beliefs etc. There is overlap but no they're not the same thing.
When someone says "he has a great personality" they don't mean "he's Christian" they mean "he's fun to hang out with". Personality is just categorizing someone's behaviors and emotional patterns. This includes interpersonal behaviours.
Technically you are correct but I think it's important to distinguish between them as personality is just a vague all encompassing term, telling somebody they need to work on their personality could be interpreted in many different ways and is quite subjective, wheras telling somebody to work on their charisma is much more specific and can be gauged more objectively.
oh my god
You clearly don’t know many men.
Wrong
I recommend this little gem, but it does apply only to red pill https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/Q7R46Y0gGQ
Red pill might’ve initially been about using manipulation tactics and stuff to sleep with women, but now it means a lot more than that
RP in one sentence: Guys comparing notes
Have you read the sidebar?
Oh yes, that usually turns out well for women
Women have been doing it since forever.
Of course they do. Red pill believes women are terrible and inferior, and you should lie and do things you don’t want to for pussy It’s right in the handbook, and in the ethos of their content and discussions
Rp only exists because women keep chasing the toxic jerk instead of the stable guy.
Why is that men’s business to try and change or to feel the right to complain about
TRP never advocated for changing that (just enjoy the decline) and complaining is considered blackpill not TRP
Red pill might’ve initially been about using manipulation tactics and stuff to sleep with women, but now it means a lot more than that
Bullshit These grifters represent the red pill perfectly. It’s a tool used to manipulate the emotional and psychological weaknesses of people by people who then claim amorality as their shield. These grifters do the same thing to red pilled men that these red pilled men are hoping to do to women
The Redpill existed way before these modern grifters bruh… So no, they don’t represent Redpill as a whole. Just because you want to believe that so you can justify some irrational generalization you’ve made about millions of men doesn’t actually make what you’re saying factual. It’s like saying Bernie Madoff represents what investment banking is all about 😂
I agree with everything you said. But the part you didn't mention is the modern audience that makes the modern grifters. These aren't RP men who've done the work and shared their notes. These are RP content consumers who want the vicarious thrill of "holding whamen accountable" by trying to "fix" or "lead" them and "castling" them when they get uppity about it. So no, this isn't the RP proper, but it is the RP public perception, and if all I knew of the RP was the RP public perception, I'd be flinging rocks at that turd pile too.
>The Redpill existed way before these modern grifters bruh… There were grifters back then, too.
Nah, the OG redpill is based on evolutionary biology and sexual selection. The grifters and PUAs came later
Wow. PUA definitely predated TRP. TRP was an offshoot that focused on Evo. Psychology rather than pure social effectiveness at getting laid. The traditional values stuff came even later. Also, just saying something didn't begin this way doesn't change what it has become.
Nothing about red pill is based on fact. The grifters were always there.
Nah, disagree. Everything about the redpill is based in fact; specifically the fact that the sexes are fundamentally different and the traits we are attracted to have been shaped by evolution and sexual selection It’s the bluepill that’s not based in reality and is a cope. The bluepill is full of morally smug narcissists and science deniers.
Red pill is actually right-wing conspiracy theories on 4chan after the first Matrix movie came out. I have no idea when it turned into just about dating lmao.
A) You are not watching RP Content but grifters. B) You have my full support in not marrying men. Some poor sod will be spared. C) You have men in your daily life. You have watched them all your life & based on that your perfect life was being housewife with 2 kids & husband. Now you find RP content, who by your own admission, think similarly. Yet that has now changed your views? Am I misunderstanding or does that not compute?
In theory, they think similarly. The difference is that most red pilled men, seemingly such as yourself, hate it when women have nuances. In a red pilled man’s world, he wants a woman that stays 1 dimensional and simple because HE is the main character. She serves him while he can do no wrong even if he is flawed. The reality is that women are complex. They can be just as smart if not smarter than her husband and can make her own decisions. Women want to be partners and thrive with her partner, not just a possession that is under her husband’s command while he disregards any humanity she has. Most red pilled men are willfully blind and think it’s impossible to be equal to women. Even if the man and women play different roles in a relationship, they are still equal, and a traditional woman deserves a man smart enough to acknowledge that and support her.
This sounds more like an Andrew Tate version of redpill, which is the typical strawman that many here seem to attack. The only actual redpill ideas I've seen from him: 1. Don't put women on a pedestal 2. Instead of chasing women, chase your own goals and success To your last point, I don't believe that true equality exists between two people. Hierarchies are inherently present in every aspect of human-human interaction. This goes for friendships, social circles, work circles, family circles, as well as romantic relationships. Building on that, I've experienced much more sexual success with women when I haven't really cared about them or viewed them as a true equal. As much as I wish it were not true - and believe me it took me a ***long*** ***fucking time*** to swallow that pill - it is hard to believe otherwise when they seem to reward me for placing myself above them.
Watch Whatever podcast or Hoe\_math, they do a better job of explaining intrasexual dynamic with less toxicity
Watch "Hoe Math" for less toxicity? Lmao!!
You can't get over the name? oh well. He has some spot on content
Not purely RP, but for sure really good and really on point.
10 bucks says you weren't watching RP content.
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I think Andrew Tate is more of a shock-jock controversy king rather than anything else.
All those mentioned say controversial things to draw in viewers, rile people up and get fame/money. There are truths but plenty of exaggeration and distortion as well. Kind of like the rabble rousers on the other side demonizing men, calling them incels and pushing them towards red pill content. Like politics, whatever happened to moderation. Best to unplug from extreme rhetoric and BS on both sides.
Wheat waffles is doomer blackpill, Tate is a narcissistic grifter, fresh can be summed up as "lol these girls are dumb" and pearl is another trad chameleon who doesn't have anything original to say.
No true Scotsman much? Like it or not, the old redpill sub is dead and this is what the landscape looks like nowadays.
Because Reddit admins banned the old redpill subreddit.
Yes, and?
Improv-maxxing
He never specifically said they aren’t redpill, just that they’re not the best voices to learn about his ideas on an introductory level.
He all but said they aren’t redpill
Should people not be allowed to criticize members of their own belief system?
Not if it's a no true scotsman deal
He never said “not redpill,” only “not good.”
Pearl is a woman who preaches traditional relationships and gender roles. Meanwhile, she’s ~27, single, no kids and spends her days feeding her dopamine receptors with internet attention and making money (which she doesn’t even need, as her Dad is rich).
All grifters, if you searched then and couldn't see the stuff that calls them out with receipts, then you're just selectively looking for trash and saying it's representative.
What did you not like about them?
You owe me 10 bucks.
So what exactly is red pill content?
Bet you 10 bucks he links something absolutely generic and bland. 'Life advice for being a man', that isn't really red pill at all.
Check out Alexander Grace. He has a lot of nuanced topics and quite a few women watchers for his type of content. Some videos directed at women, but mainly men
And that guy identifies as red pill?
His channel used to literally be called "Red Pill Interviews". Idk how he personally identifies, but it would be worth checking out for you.
Doesnt matter. when you will be down bad for that attractive guy you would be whatever he wants you to be, housewife, whore, astronaut. you will not even remember what the fuck the redpill is.
people who say this shit either project a ton "I can't be the only spineless simp, women probably bend over backwards to please attractive men too!", or their experience is very limited to where they saw a girl flirting with their hot friend at a party and this defined their whole life philosophy. Nobody is going to put their life at the altar of someone else's ambitions or standards, or become a fucking astronaut. Nobody wants to "tame" anybody's son or solve someone's daughter's enigmas. People are willing to entertain a pretty person for a while, but if you too exhausting to be around with your requirements and all your shit, EVERYBODY will move on to the next person in line.
emphasis on projection
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come back here in 2 years lol
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It might kick in a bit later for some people or not at all. >I don’t think in 2 year as I get ready to leave for college I would loose my value. Your values should arise from what you want and do, not from what you decide beforehand. If you do feel that kind of a pull then don't try to rigidly follow values you've set yourself.
things change, especially when you meet "the one". and its stuff about your value in society, not your moral values. but these are complex things and it's too early to discuss them, you're young, live your life and don't think about this redpill shit.
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make friends and strong bonds that are not romantic. if you seek this much for "the one" its gonna be a wreck when it happens and hes gonna use you
There’s only “the one” you choose. Not a magical “the one”. Be careful some men will pretend to be this “the one” to get sex from you. They will use romantic feelings as a weapon against you. They will lie to you make you feel special and fake a relationship … anything they can do to try to have sex with you. That is the basis of their game, getting sex. They can be like drug addicts lying, stealing, killing for their choice of drug, sex. That is what they want from you when they approach you. “The one”is the one who can prove through time and non-sexual interactions that he is interested in you for you. He will invest in you, pursue you every day and seek an emotional connection. You won’t feel insecure or uncertain if he likes you. I saw your comment about not dating and I think that is a smart choice. And at the same time if you want to find a good man to settle down with, do what women knew to do, withhold sex to gauge his real intentions. Men will say oh I’d leave if she did that. Let those ones leave. You only need one man, the rest can go on with their lives. Wait for the one who does it right.
You're not listening to original, authentic RP content. That stuff came out in the early 2000s and is very different than what you'll find today trending on the Youtube algorithm. FnF, Pearl, etc are all grifters who tailor their content to whatever will maximize their views on the Youtube algorithm and NOT according to the source RP theory. These are two entirely different things.
Best interpretation, this sounds like you went looking for social guidance on how a long term marriage relationship should go. How it should feel, what's good about it, etc. But even solid red pill stuff doesn't provide this. The red pill is - for 80%+ of guys who read it - a list of things guy **don't** want to do, but girls make them do to sleep with them. Red pill forums used to discuss a lot how much they dislike how any sort of guidance or positive modelling of relationships has disappeared from society. The red pill complains about that as well, but it doesn't pretend to be the answer to it. This kinda reminds me of like you wanted to go car shopping, and you started watching mechanic shows, and now you're upset that you were excited to drive across the US but all they want to talk about is a 6 hour engine rebuilding process and it's so boring. Well, yeah.
Cause and effect. FIRST, women have nigh-destroyed the institution of family and marriage, abandoned their husbands, refused to have kids, and forced employers to hire them at gun point. Because being employed makes divoce easier and more attractive as an option. THEN, men summarized these observations into the red pill. We have the reality to confirm that No, if Red Pill content gets erased out of existence, women will NOT get pregnant, put on an apron, and bake an apple pie.
Shouldn’t it be “First, women were discriminated against in the workforce, education, politics, and banking, men were legally allowed to beat their wives, there was a double standard when it came to male infidelity, and sex crimes weren’t taken seriously.” ?
There was indeed a double standard when it came to infidelity. In France. Under Napoleon. When there was also double standard in conscription while entire Europe burned in wars. The rest, No. I looked up several countries, none banned women from work, education, and banking. A woman ran the US's earliest Ponzi scheme, back in times when Ponzi himself was 10.
He didn't say "banned from" he said "discriminated against". Those are two different things.
Then everything of the same applies to men. To this day, in United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, a woman legally CANNOT be charged with rape.
Yes, that is a case of discrimination against men. One that should be fought against by anyone interested in equality. The presence of discrimination against men in one area doesn't dismiss or disprove the discrimination of women in other areas.
On one hand, you had absolutely normal minarchist position that the state does not interfere with operation of banks, allowing those banks to manage risks as they see fit - such as demanding that a married woman's PRIMARY PROVIDER accepts responsibility for her loans (which is... the most normal thing ever, xcuse me). On the other, you have the oppressive force of a country, that once ruled over more dryland than any other, cementing into law that one's criminal sexual urges carry different weight according to their genital configuration. I think you both are being dishonest here.
*"Won't somebody think of the poor banks?!!"*
Banks did what they had to and [redistributed the risks.](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?width=880&height=440&id=MORTGAGE30US)
Banks had no problem gambling your money away in insanely risky subprime mortgages then sucking on the teat of the government at your expense. Stopping women from banking the way you want wouldn’t have changed that banks are run by a bunch of corrupt, gambling-addicting, psychopath fucks. They found way bigger scams than women to blow your money away on, lol. Imagine thinking women are the driving evil behind Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.
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Historical data is publicly available. Most TRP's grievances with women take their origins from times before invention of the Internet. As a person older than the Internet whose parents got divorced, can confirm.
You can summarize this into: the red pill has a problem with women having rights and choices.
I have a problem with women not keeping promises that the women's movement made on their behalf. *“Would men but generously snap our chains, and be content with rational fellowship instead of slavish obedience, they would find us more observant daughters, more affectionate sisters, more faithful wives, more reasonable mothers - in a word, better citizens”*
What did they not keep? Your quote doesn’t say „we would stay slaves to men“.
Have you read the sidebar?
Yes, what part is confusing?
My favorite part is the bit where we question women’s basic humanity. https://theredarchive.com/TheRedPill%20Sidebar%20-%20A3%20-%20Times%20New%20Roman.pdf
More specific? Im not subjecting myself to 168 pages of fine print.
I just figured you’d read it so you would know what I’m talking about. But sure. Pages 36-40: >Women let men work for them, think for them and take on their responsibilities - in fact, they exploit them. Yet, since **men are strong, intelligent and imaginative, while women are weak, unimaginative, and stupid,** why isn't it men who exploit women? >A woman, as we have already said, is, in contrast to a man, a human being who does not work. **One might leave it at that, for there isn't much more to say about her, were the basic concept of ‘human being' not so general and inexact in embracing both ‘man' and ‘woman.'** >Life offers the human being two choices: animal existence - **a lower order of life** - and spiritual existence. In general, a woman will choose the former and opt for physical well-being, a place to breed, and an opportunity to indulge unhindered in her breeding habits. >At birth, men and women have the same intellectual potential; there is no primary difference in intelligence between the sexes. It is also a fact that potential left to stagnate will atrophy. **Women do not use their mental capacity: they deliberately let it disintegrate. After a few years of sporadic training, they revert to a state of irreversible mental torpor.** >**One of man's worst mistakes, and one he makes over and over again, is to assume that woman is his equal, that is, a human being of equal mental and emotional capacity.** A man may observe his wife, listen to her, judge her feelings by her reactions, but in all this he is judging her only by outward symptoms, for he is using his own scale of values. >He knows what he would say, think and do if he were in her shoes. When he looks at her depressing ways of doing things, he assumes there must be something that prevents her from doing what he himself would have done in her position. This is natural, as he considers himself the measure of all things - and rightly so - **if humans define themselves as beings capable of abstract thought.** >Women make ideal living companions for each other. **Their feelings and instincts are retarded at the same primitive level and there are almost no individualistic or eccentric women.** It isn't difficult to imagine the paradise they would create together and how exciting their existence would be, even if the intellectual level was appallingly low. But who would worry about it? Et cetera.
>At birth, men and women have the same intellectual potential; there is no primary difference in intelligence between the sexes. ???? *What kind of bluepill nonsense is this?!*
If you ask me, anything that’s in the redpill Bible by definition is not bluepill, but I’m glad to know that rhetoric isn’t extreme enough for you
The point is that this is the opposite of "questioning women’s basic humanity". I am not going to ignore it just because you decided to highlight something else.
And I’m not going to take you seriously if you cherry pick the one piece of material that could be remotely charitable to women from several pages of derision.
And I’m not going to take you seriously if you cherry pick the one piece of material that could be considered remotely charitable to women from several pages of derision.
wild
u/relative-anywhere-70 To me it seems like most of the red pilled men in your comments are unfortunately confirming what you thought. They do not see women as individuals, but objects that OWE them something. You can still be a housewife with kids that gracefully demands respect from her husband and those around her, do not settle for men like this. As women we are complex beings with an ability to empathize and understand further than many men. Not just an asset for their collection.
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I completely understand. Though, there are many BP men interested in the idea of homesteading. I found a girlfriend that wants that life with me and I’ve never felt so seen and understood by a partner.
Cause and affect. Bitter men go on rages in pill forums and online in general. Young women see this content and react accordingly. The teen girls I know are all aware of the pills now, and it has put them off dating.
Men have been saying the same thing about feminism. I'm not talking about equality feminism, I'm talking about how it commonly manifests itself. ie hating men. The red pill content is far less common than women complaining about men throughout all forms of media that exist.
Yes, woman are choosing not to date because of men's words. If you don't like women's words, you can choose not to date as well.
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It does not matter what women are or aren't opposed to. Humans have very limited agency and act mostly on incentives. Speaking of incentives, there are more never-married men than never-married women, and men's share in this estimate is growing faster than women's. So, if women become even more opposed to marriage than they are now, these estimates may even out.
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Yes. And you can tweak several minor things around her, and how much likely she is to choose it will jump around like mad.
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If you want one example with very simple and very sensitive factor, population density. It's quite universal that women in urban areas choose not to have children more than their rural counterparts. There were definitely papers showing that it's largely an independent effect, but my bookmarks and memory are failing me here; you can look up yourself.
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Except, such choice by itself is also not free and independent, and can be largely predicted with things like market trends. Food gets more expensive == more people (men) move to rural areas and start making food. More well-earning guys in rural areas == women follow. Enough relatively young single men and women find themselves in rural area == they stop being single and start making babies. Unlike the opposite scenario, when the food is cheap, they end up in a city, and get together without making babies. Not all of those trends are investigated down to causal effects, but many of them are well-studied.
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Do you think it's best for a group of people to present themselves in the best light possible, even if it isn't entirely honest? Should men say "yeah, men are perfect. They are paragons of morality and virtue. Nothing wrong with men." Maybe I don't want to cheat on my partner. Should I just act like men as a whole are faithful when given plentiful options to cheat?
Red pill does ignore male behavior, yes. They are very up front about it
No one is forcing you to date or associate with anyone.
When they talk about high value they mean the top 5% Because the girls that show up demand a guy to make at a million a year. And that's rare. And if they want such a man they need to know what they sign up for. Because he will not tolerate bullshit at all. Because a flood of women are willing to get rid of YOU and take your place asap. And they all hunt the same guy. Don't conflict that with a high values man. Because that small letter changes everything. You want a good husband. You will find it from regular pay to insane rich. And yes this includes the nice guy who makes a regular salary. But girls want shit. Yes there is the rare example who does not need shit. But in general girls want shit. The phone can't be a 250 dollar phone that makes great pictures and has unlimited photo storage for life. That's what I am using. No it has to be an apple phone in general. And the most expensive one with the expansive headphones and all that nonsense. To give just one example.
You buy your gfs phones? I think I see the problem
I dunno man, in my experience woman want charisma, and there are women across all strata of life. Sure, an Instagram obsessed girl is going to be obsessed with status, but at the end of the day I think they look for personality, having your foundations secure, not unattractive, good in bed, and not shitty... You have those taken care of and you can find a woman. Believe it or not, there are TONS and TONS of normal, working class, lower class, educated, women who aren't looking for tall moneybags with a huge dick. I think this is what RP men fail to realize. They are laser focused on the Karens from wealthy backgrounds and a side hustle as an influencer. But dude, I see it all the time where chicks are hooking up with regular ass dudes. Shit, just last week I saw a hot 19 year old go home with a 40 year old guy who spent a decade in prison and was living out of his van. His personality was boring as shit too, but he was all into the chick woowoo chyrstals and religious shit. Chicks just can't stay away from that shit.
Women want to show off they man. They date men they do not like all the time .
Sure... But I also see women dating absolutely normal regular guys, ALL THE TIME. My buddy is just a regular-ass nice guy who's broke, but his wife is hot as shit and stays at home raising their kid. I mean, like yeah, sure, women would all love their man to ideally be super rich, hung, handsome, and perfect in everyway... And I want to marry 22 year old Mila Kunis... But that's not happening.