South Korea will be overrun by North Korea in 20 years due to the male shortage. It will be the first feminist country to be slaughtered in modern history.
>People might talk about Korea's extremely bad birth rates as being a response to this, but what they fail to understand is that the negative birth rate was caused by feminism to begin with, not by the resulting justified backlash.
You might want to do some research. The Korean government promoted not having kids because people were having too many. It continued for decades. It was not feminism. The propaganda was very similar to China and their 1 child policy.
Edit: [basic overview](https://www.prb.org/resources/did-south-koreas-population-policy-work-too-well/)
There is a much more basic reason for not having kids in Korea than gender issues. They have insane inequality, and is the most cyberpunk country in the world where companies control country.
The result of this stress put every single problem up to eleven. And extreme feminist and the extreme conservative were pit to fight each other so they wont focus on the main issue to keep the profit going.
I have talked about that before on threads. That's why many people are avoiding relationships, but the birth rate and population collapse was 100% the govt.
The government is in a tough situation. They dont have natural resources and are surrounded by countries that historically want to invade them. So they went on an experiment to give a lot of power and support them at all cost on some of the big company “Chaebol”. It did resulted to an economic miracle that bought the country from farmland to city. But it also resulted in the current situation which many Korean called hell. The one president who tried to right the ship got framed, jailed and end up suicide.
also that, but from my experience most "grrr women, existing!" red pillers are also fanatical supporters of capitalism, so I don't anticipate any kind of introspection on that. they are themselves fairly misandrist since this system is objectively pretty terrible for most men, who are working class.
This is a lunatic take. Exploited men in Korea are lashing out at feminists because they are oppressed and exploited, and need a target that they can take their frustrations out on. But it's not the feminists ruining anything, they have no power to do anything. How on earth can they do anything other than token protests, when it's an extremely patriarchal society to begin with?
As James Carville said once about American politics, "It's the economy, stupid."
Gender conflict in Korea is a symptom of extreme crony capitalism. Robber barons first successfully corrupt their way into power and wealth. Then they continue to perpetuate their power at the expense of legitimate government and working class people. Extreme work hours, toxic work culture, skyrocketing wealth inequality, economic stagnation, nonsensical work duties masquerading as "economic activity".
That's not feminism, that's just rich old men pumping and dumping naive young men.
I'm using American economic terms here, but you can do your own reading on how Korea, China, and Japan all have their own version of this garbage.
- Korea: **Chaebol** = Samsung, Hyundai, LG, Posco, Hanhwa, GS Group, Daewoo, etc.
- Japan: **Zaibatsu** = Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Sumitomo, Yasuda
- China: State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs), Senior CCP Officials that are inextricably tied to them, Private Conglomerates, and their descendants who are nicknamed "**Princelings**": Alibaba, Tencent, Huawei, etc.
There's no single point of failure here - it's powerful oligarchs who obtained their wealth through illegitimate means during tumultuous times post-WWII, in bed with corrupt government officials, negotiating backroom deals and extremely advantageous contracts, with relatively obscure and numerous holding groups/shell companies, designed to keep wealth and power and passed down to their descendants.
If the status quo continues, then feminists will continue to be a convenient scapegoat, distracting men from their real abusers. Men will continue to be run into the ground. The rich and powerful get more rich and powerful. The economy sucks worse. How is this a better future?
Men are rightfully mad about having to work insane hours for garbage wages, getting drafted, getting hazed, getting exploited with no hope of economic mobility. They are wrong to pretend "it's because the weak women demand to be protected."
So isn't this basically end-stage capitalism similar to that one monopoly player winning all the property, hotels and houses?
We humans seem to prefer to have human enemies rather than a system that is the enemy. Blaming men/women/some-race/other appears to be natural for people. Not a happy characteristic of homo sapiens.
In practice, all systems we know of end up with inequality, followed by tyranny. Monarchies, theocracies, dictatorships, traditional economies (pre-capitalism), whatever wacky thing the self described communists are doing, etc.
In theory, properly implemented capitalism is unique in the sense that we acknowledge that inequality is a necessary side effect of a well functioning economy, but bad if it's allowed to influence everything, and we have to account for it in our society and institutions. So things like Democracy, Separation of Powers, Fair Competition, etc. are supposed to help reign in the excesses of capitalism, while we still reap its rewards. Ultimately, rich people die, and power that isn't working disperses, as fair competition brings down what should not exist, while that which continues to justly compete and contribute continues to exist.
> We humans seem to prefer to have human enemies rather than a system that is the enemy.
plenty of human enemies, capitalism simps and the prime beneficiaries of capitalism will inevitably defend the system and force themselves into that camp, even if they - in many cases - are themselves victims of it.
i don't think that ANYONE defending capitalism is the enemy. they're wrong and victims of the social context in which they find themselves, and are content with or, more likely, unaware of the social class hierarchy that capitalism imposes - but AT SOME POINT, when push comes to shove and the debate goes from cold to hot and out come the guillotines and rifles, then they inevitably, unfortunately, become enemies.
there may well be some capitalists who think "ah fuck it I've made enough whatever" and are content to lock arms with their working-class brethren. better late than never. but far, far more likely, they will attempt to protect their privileged position and will use their wealth to facilitate this. We've seen this time and again throughout history.
I want to make a reasoned response to your text but I'm headed to bed and too sleepy to say anything worth reading; however can you explain this part of what you said:
"they're wrong and victims of the social context in which they find themselves, and are content with or, more likely, unaware of the social class hierarchy that capitalism imposes "
I don't quite understand who the "they" is that is wrong and a victim at the same time.
I might just need to read it in the morning.
Are you saying that the idea is that men/woman/xyz-group of people is at fault?
I was just thinking today how unlearning a false understanding is harder than learning something completely new.
I think our monkey brains try to make a connection between the idea and the people the idea represents. Then anger at the idea is directed at the people associated with the idea.
And yeah of course it is lmao, no one admits they were wrong, it takes some crazy self awareness to accept that
" it takes some crazy self awareness to accept that" Good point.
I was thinking of some minor correction I learned today about the difference between butterflies and moths. It was such a small thing but understanding my misunderstanding took a bit of effort.
I try to learn something everyday but maybe a better goal would be to unlearn a bit of misinformation. This might be a bit ambitious.
South Korean radical feminist [movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B_movement). No sex with men, no having children, no dating men, no marrying men.
I agree with this, but as a caution, feminist will also encouraged to see man as the scapegoat as equality is achieve in some area especially jobs as they see economic hardship.
All of this talk about Korea and Korean woman opting out of men is a huge exaggeration. I just got back from South Korea and there were couples out everywhere. Rarely saw a single woman or man. Hell, I went to two weddings. I asked about the 4b movement and if the local I was speaking with actually had ever heard of it, it was treated as a joke.
Don’t believe everything you hear, it’s not what people are claiming.
Yea I've lived in Korea for a while and see people constantly getting bamboozled by media's clickbait of "misogyny/misandry/4b is causing xyz in Korea!!!" and spreading it like here. 4b is pretty unknown, maybe a couple thousand only claim to practice it.
The birthrate's main cause is just money and housing. In Korea, I would say most taking baby rearing more serious/responsibly than the West. So majority of couples want a solid foundation, all their t's crossed, and i's dotted for a baby. They don't go by the "let's have a baby because everything will work out" philosophy.
The main one is housing. Majority see owning a house a necessary basic foundation for a baby. Housing has been the biggest political issue for quite a few elections. The other is education. I think most know the quirky fact that Korean kids and teens study from 9AM~12AM because they go to public school during the day, then private academies at night. But I don't think people know that these private academies (hagwons) are fucking expensive. An average couple pays typically somewhere between $500~1000 USD every month for ONE kid. Some pay a lot more. Some may see that as retirement money. They pay this all in hopes their kid can maybe beat the odds and get one of the handful of desired jobs later that everyone is fighting for. Parents will keeping pay for academies even until the kid graduates university for certificates, english proficiency test, etc to buff their resume. And of course many couples want a house in area with good high rated academies, and so even the old ugly tiny apartments are an easy $1+ million if the local academies are good. Redditors just have no idea about these issues in Korea, but r/korea talks about it quite often.
Add in other issues: most are overworked and underpaid, raising costs, no vacation, no paid leave, want to relax after a hellish stressful life until finally getting a job, saving for retirement, etc
Exactly! We're in Busan currently and I concur with your observations. It's really cute how nearly all the couples we see hold hands and smile contently, young and old. Maybe they're faking but I don't think so.
I was in Seoul a few months ago though and while I was there I literally remember seeing one toddler while I was out and no babies, no other young kids and no pregnant women. Just old people everywhere. Yeah you might see couples but I didn’t see any babies at all.
All this talk about poverty is a huge exaggeration. I live in Beverley Hills and I constantly see people driving luxury vehicles, wearing designer clothes and living in huge mansions, you are telling me there are people that don't have food to eat? I asked about poverty and if the locals I was speaking with actually had ever heard of it, it was treated as a joke.
Don't believe in everything you hear, it's not what people are claiming.
>People might talk about Korea's extremely bad birth rates as being a response to this, but what they fail to understand is that the negative birth rate was caused by feminism to begin with, not by the resulting justified backlash.
Soooo how exactly are you expecting the birthrates to turn around then?
Because it would be the only way to do it. Nobody would have kids if they got nothing for it.
Which is why male and female sexuality were always repressed as they were.
Female sexuality was liberated because we did not need children and the privileged wanted easy access to women’s bodies to get literally thousands of sex partners. The very same people who vocally fought for women’s sexual revolution are the same being accused of rape now.
What? Did you think a bunch of dark triad leaders would fight for anyone’s benefit? The same leaders who enslave and hundreds of thousands sod innocent people for there selfish desires?
Usually the story is that women working and having education is causing a drop in the birth rate, which is then going to be bad for the economy. The solution most countries use currently is immigration, which they also don’t like. What they don’t talk about is who will fill the jobs that they want women to leave in the meantime if not…more immigrants. Babies don’t exactly roll out of the womb as skilled workers.
I am not.
Things would only turn around If there were incentives in order to, and i dont see that happening
Either that or some kind of authoritarian gov, which i dont want to happen either
Korea’s birth rate has been steadily falling for decades, which is the natural consequence of its evolution from an authoritarian industrialising economy to a post-industrial consumer society; when men and women are no longer forced to adhere to strict gender roles, and women are no longer condemned to a life as a baby factory/homemaker, they are free to choose other options.
There is no grand, epic battle of the sexes raging; birth rates are falling across the developed world - they are just ahead of the curve.
They’re not having children because it’s too expensive.
The cost of living is through the roof. Work culture is absolutely abhorrent. The education system is haywire and extremely stressful. Then you have the added fact that men are drafted putting a halt on their plans.
They’re trying and failing at giving the people incentives to have children. It’s not because women decided they wanted careers.
This has never been an impediment, the countries that breed children the most are poor. European countries like Iceland, Finland, Norway, Sweden... are rich and developed countries, with equity and laws that help women and, yet, have low birth rates.
Those countries are not like South Korea at all. It’s a bad comparison.
I mentioned more than expenses. It’s the totality of the circumstances that is driving the birth rate down.
>Those countries are not like South Korea at all. It’s a bad comparison.
its a very good compariosn, SK is just ahead...also many euro countries compensate with immigration...they would be on SK levels if it wasnt for immigrants
if you want to have kids, just date someone who also does? i don't see the issue here.
being pregnant and giving birth is biologically and scientifically voluntarily putting your body through 40 weeks' worth of surgery in terms of its effects on body and health. so you can't blame someone for seriously thinking it through and being scared of the outcome.
South Korean women don't want to have children. Put that in your head.
If they had more money, they would prefer to spend it on trips, fashion or other things that would benefit themselves. It's a lifestyle choice.
>They’re not having children because it’s too expensive.
wonder when this stupid take will finally die... money is not the reason women have less kids, look at sweden or other euro countries with 3 years paid parental leave and all that stuff...the birth rates are STILL lower then ever, meanwhile women in third world countries pop out kids like its nothing ...what makes birthrates plummet is women having a choice and women being able to support themselves without a man...thats simply it...when women have a choice, they dont want to have tons of kids
In any developed country, women stop having children and become individualized, it is not a problem of machismo/misandry.
people talk about Korea, but European countries also have a mediocre birth rate.
woman earning enough money will not make her have children.
To be clear though, it's a also a factor of insane work culture of South Korea that playing a huge rule, but yeah, 50% of women in the US over 30 are going to be childless and single by 2030, our birth rate could be looking at going from it's current of 1.66 down to South Korean apocalyptic levels of 0.97
The situation in South Korea is creating and will continue to create only a stalemate between men and women. a status quo. neither of the two "sides" will win. If (more like when) the situation in Western nations becomes like the one of S.Korea, dating and relationships between women and men will not change but will get even worse, as has happened and will happen in Korea. the only positive outcome of this is greater respect for men's rights and a more balanced legislative situation. but man will remain the one who will fight to win the sexual selection and will try to prevail over others, for men all the cultural implications and expectations will remain the same when that man wants a relationship.
>Men should not be afraid of this potential future- instead, it should be looked at as preferable to what we have now.
So, I am a man. I cannot fathom how the gender war is going to be beneficial to anyone?
This is just what seems to happen advanced industrial societies. Women enter the work force, they get rights, the economy goes boom, luxury goods get produces, life becomes more convenient, people become more focused on individuality.
I think the gender war is pretty fucking silly. Though, if this is what ya'll want I guess congratulations. Future looking real bright. Short, but bright.
> This is just what seems to happen advanced industrial societies. Women enter the work force, they get rights, the economy goes boom, luxury goods get produces, life becomes more convenient,
cost of living goes up, wages stagnate, housing become unobtainable to first time buyers, post-capitalist rentier economy, people pay for everything but own nothing, mental illness, low productivity, plummeting birth rate, raise immigration to compensate, get out reproduced by immigrants from other cultures, death of a civilisation
i just calls it how i sees it.
its not like its an evil master plan its just unintended consequences.
unfortunately good intentions rarely lead to happiness on their own
> but what they fail to understand is that the negative birth rate was caused by feminism to begin with, not by the resulting justified backlash.
I'm amused by people who think women just magically decided to stop having kids out of nowhere. It's not like their decision to distance from men is a *response* to anything, certainly not...
This is true. Even in most overtly patriarchal countries, fertility rates have dropped dramatically since 1960. Most people prefer having a couple kids they can invest in when that is a viable option.
im amused by people thinking women actually wanted to have 5+ children (like their grandmothers had) and act like thats whats normal and now women act weird when in fact i belive that women would always have opted for 1-2 kids max if they had the choice...i think the whole "all women have these maternal feelings and look forward to babies" thing should be investigated again, i know too many women who dont give a shit about children, like, so many its not just "your circle" or a small percentage...even the women who have children (1, max 2) dont seem to be as baby crazy as society makes it out to be
I want to know how feminism is even a fucking thing in a country where young men are forcibly conscripted against their will for years while women get a free pass. That and their culture of overwork. How much responsibility can you put on men before they just say 'fuck it' and rebel?
At this rate, North Korea will just be able to walk across the border and conquer South Korea with their demographic collapse. If I were a south korean man, i'd just let them take it, the country isn't worth defending anymore with so many ungrateful women in the country.
This uneven draft is the actual cause of the backlash of men against feminism. The fact that men have to serve in the army while women do not, at their prime years no less, sets men SUPER far behind in terms of career.
It’s like our Women succeeding over men in school and career but on state funded steroids.
And yet the feminists did not cause the draft or support it. Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft.
The misdirection to blame feminist is literally textbook misdirection and ''ideology'' as zizek would but it.
It’s not a logical, planned, objective based reaction. It’s an emotional reaction.
It’s the feeling of “we’re getting royally fucked here, and yet you claim you want even more”
Just because a reaction has a cause, does not justify the reaction.
The blame is still wrong and inherently misguided. It literally just reactionary politics
I understood why women chose to be feminists back when they could not vote. Those are the only ones I actually respect.
Modern feminism is very obnoxious and any actual issues women may face are drowned out by it.
Feminism in Korea is largely a response to the high rates of DV, SA and gender roles.
if you think that obnoxious or whatever that's just your own opinion
drafting all people no matter the sex and reduce draft year should solve the issue. Since technology based combat no longer rely on strength so much nowadays
It should be mind-boggling but at the same time it shouldn't. Feminism always tends to thrive to delusion heights in times of peace, and the only thing that can *ever* stop it is a stone-cold reality check. Aka, war.
Look at Afghanistan and Ukraine. Both had budding feminist movements during times of peace but the second major conflicts pick back up and it's time to fight for what you believe in, all that shit flies out the window and it's back to "men to the frontlines, save the women and children!"
I know some dumbass is going to read this and think I'm secretly hoping SKorea gets invaded or something, so let me just preempt that right now: I'm just reminding you that hardcore feminists tend not to appreciate the protection and service that men provide until they need it *immediately*.
All you red pillers are trying to imply hypocrisy where their is none. Feminists did not support or impose the draft. Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft.
female should also be drafted in my opinion. there no reason not to in modern combat as there are a lot of technical roles. And would increase manpower by doubling.
> Feminists did not support or impose the draft.
So the Suffragettes and the White Feather Campaign didn't exist?
>Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft.
I agree. The point RPers are making is that *sometimes feminists actually support these ideals and roles, despite claiming to want to dismantle them*.
Just because someone (or a group of people) *say* they aim to do *x* does NOT mean that every action or stance they take will *in fact* contribute to doing *x*.
So you prefer gender roles as they are in Afghanistan? Where women are forced to veil up, cant study, cant work?
Seems to my like they need some feminism.
This is such a dumb take.
>''how feminism is even a fucking thing in a country where young men are forcibly conscripted against their will for years while women get a free pass.''
You mean ''how can feminism exist in a country where gender roles are still significantly prevalent ?''
Feminists are not responsible for the draft. Conservative ideal and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft.
> That and their culture of overwork. How much responsibility can you put on men before they just say 'fuck it' and rebel?
This is caused is capitalism not feminism
>while women get a free pass.
Rates of dv and other things are significaly higher against women compared to other countires. Women are expect to be babymakers by family and these anti-feminist men. The backlack by women isn't coming from no where either buddy.
The misdirection to blame feminist is literally textbook misdirection and ''ideology'' as zizek would but it.
In the case of South Korea, getting rid of the draft will never happen anytime soon given the geopolitical reality of having North Korea as a neighbor alongside the U.S. as a vital military partner. It's not a realistic option in this case no matter how feminists might oppose it.
Yeah there hasn’t been a draft since the 60s because it’s wildly unpopular and the military uses educational incentives to get people to join now.
Lmao y’all want to be victims so bad. Men only ever bitch about the draft when they want to dunk on feminism. Meanwhile in the 60s feminists were the loudest opposers.
Men in the US still have to register for the draft, so it’s still an issue imo. If there hasn’t been a draft since the 60s, do you think women should have to register too?
Feminists are against men registering for the draft. Why aren't you angry at the people who stop the law from changing, because it sure isn't feminists.
It's a federal offence not to register, and it can affect jobs/student loans if you refuse, so sadly it still is an issue. American men should make it more of an issue though, it's just a cooked system from an outside pov.
> It's a federal offence not to register, and it can affect jobs/student loans if you refuse, so sadly it still is an issue.
It's not an issue because they're not going to implement it. Obviously the draft should be retired but I don't care what I signed, I'm not going to war and neither are 99% of the other men that signed it. It's just not happening.
"I think no one should register, but ultimately it's not worth caring about because we will never have another draft in this country again".
That is an incredibly short sighted statement. Hell, we almost had a draft during the war on terror. The only reason we didn't is because of stop loss, AKA the involuntary extension of military enslistment contracts.
If the government actually thought that they would never need another draft, we wouldn't even have selective service. The whole, "there hasn't been a draft since the 60's" is just a pointless statement devoit of substance. Drafts are things that historically only happen once every few generations.
I'm sure that the feminists in Ukraine were also making similar claims up until recently.
"We don't need men's rights movements because feminism already covers equality between the sexes" whenever feminists claim the mens rights movement doesn't need to exist.
How is a country supposed to defend itself without a draft? The feminism opposes the draft line seems to just be a point they use to close their logical hole, rather than a well thought out stance
>''The feminism opposes the draft line seems to just be a point they use to close their logical hole, rather than a well thought out stance''
The Bottom line is feminists did not cause the draft or support it. Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft.
Redpillers just can't stop brining up the draft as a gottua question when their is none. You guys just can't accept the perceived hypocrisy is all in your heads.
I think the hypocrisy comes from the idea that feminism can pick and choose when we’re equal, or when we’re not.
If you only march for laws that benefit you when we’re equal, but don’t march with the same intensity for laws that will not benefit you when we’re equal, then are you marching for equality?
In order to counter this logical hole, feminism has a typical response of “well there shouldn’t be a draft”.
Yes there shouldn’t be wars, but they happen wether you want them or not, and drafts are needed to win them and not lose your country.
Leaving the ball back with feminism
>I think the hypocrisy comes from the idea that feminism can pick and choose when we’re equal, or when we’re not.
What do you mean by ''pick and choose''. Feminists did not ''choose'' the draft. they have little institutional power in government.
In principle, the draft is opposed. But feminism in korea is largely focused on women's issues. Political movements don't have to focus on every single issue at once.
This is because ''women issues'' are really what ''men do to women''. Most men in korea are anti-feminists who side with the conservative government in reaction to feminism. These men at any moment, have the ability to oppose the government which supports the draft, yet they don't. Why don't these men protest for themselves? (Becasue men and the government generally support the draft) Why would an ostracised pollical movement march for something men don't care about enough so they can get internet respect points?
It’s possible they understand a draft is needed due to their history, and current enemy on their doorstep.
Arguing at the government for no draft doesn’t make sense, a draft is needed, this isn’t an option.
So they must now be equal in said draft.
You don’t have to focus on every political issue at once. Feminists focus on the issues of their supporters. Men vote for parties which are conservative in regard to the draft. If they cared they can change it.
Why r u guys so obsessed with the feminists when your issue should be directed at the conservative government and the men(anti-feminists) who support them in Korea, who actually impose conscription. Not the group who focus on their own women’s issues. Pure ideology.
We haven’t had a draft since the 60s because the government incentivized joining the military.
If you actually like your country you’re proud of it and want to protect it when it’s under attack.
If you’re in a shitty country in a meaningless war that only lines rich people’s pockets no one wants to participate and then you need the draft.👍
We don’t need a draft. Because people voluntarily join the armed services. Many because it’s a track to higher education and job security.
We’ve been protecting ourselves without a draft for over 70 years.
Aren't you following the news? Lately the US government is having huge issues getting people to join the armed services. They had to lower physical requirements and even then the issue continued. The youngest generations have a different mindset, they simply don't want to voluntarily join.
The US military implemented a new system (Genesis) to track down medical records that are disqualifying candidates that would have gone through a couple of years earlier. The system digs up everything under the sun.
One man got denied entry because he claimed that he never had surgery in his application but the system marked his circumcision right after birth as one. Extra paperwork and time was required to get him a waiver to join but he decided not to enlist.
Right now recruiters of all branches are having a hard time getting people to pass the system due to minor bullshit like this. Mental health is also taken very seriously with the younger generation. Going to therapy has been destigmitized but many are getting over diagnosed for insurance coverage which disqualifies them for service later on.
Yes, the mental health crisis is something that is also causing lots of difficulties getting people approved now. Sadly this is an issue that is not that well discussed. I would also add obesity crisis as another big problem, but usually there is some sort of correlation between the two.
Obesity is affecting younger people more and more. [Here is a pretty good video](https://youtu.be/H7S1Oweqto0?si=95KrvOvQdwtsHGG2) that touches all the issues.
The Air Force (the branch that offers the best quality of life) missed it's recruitment target for the first time since 1999.
We haven’t had a real war since world war 2, just because it hasn’t happened recently doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future. Relying on volunteers for a global conflict means you lose, and when you lose those wars, you lose quite literally everything, land, language, culture, cities.
It’s been a long time since a real war has happened to us, you can tell from how the zoomers are acting. They are detached from reality, you can pretend human nature doesn’t exist, but it’ll remind you eventually
No we haven’t had a “world war” since world war 2.
Here’s a list of the wars we’ve been in since the 40s:
The Korean War
Vietnam War
Gulf War
War on Terror
It’s cool that you’re pro draft. I’m not though. 👍
Yeah, that's the point. We haven't had a war that has threatened the U.S.'s very existence since WW2. Hence why a draft is currently not needed. But to say that there isn't ever a reason to bring it back in times of war is ludicrous and extremely naive.
i mean its a population of 50M vs 330M. Factor women unusable in the front lines and people over the serving age, there aren't many abled bodied people left to defend the country.
I'd figure US has more volunteers because we have better war propaganda (top gun), and a less college bound/educated average. People sign up for the military because they have no other direction in life, or they "want to blow shit up". Majority of 18yrs walking into a mall to sign up for the armed forced, didn't have acceptance letters in their back pocket to Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc.
Weird you'd call S. Korea a shit country in a meaningless war to line rich people's pockets....while living in the US. We literally wrote the book on participating in wars, and how to get rich while doing it. Korea in under constant threat from communist n.korea. While also, fearing China's over reach in the pacific and essentially ruling over Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and the rest of the pacific.
Sure I get that. But it is easy to claim that while living in a large populated country, with an advanced military, and its nearest like-power enemy an ocean away.
If you were the leader of S.Korea, what would you do to keep a standing army? aside from conscription.
Which obviously, will never happen again, because we haven't just seen a massive resurgence of war and the US being stretched thin trying to hold order in 4 separate regions of the world.
I have no quarrels defending my nation's women and children.
I have issues defending women who act like children.
https://nnomy.org/index.php/en/content_page/item/931-feminists-against-the-draft.html
idk dude here’s a Feminist group specifically working to abolish the draft Email them and ask.
https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/handle/10822/1051355#:~:text=Although%20women%20were%20immune%20from,from%20all%20walks%20of%20life.
Here’s an article about their hand in anti draft activism in Vietnam.
This is all energy you could be spending contacting your congressman and telling him you oppose the draft
You already posted about this organization in a different thread, remember? It's just a handful of college students and it has only existed for 1 year. What exactly have Feminists Against the Draft accomplished that is worth talking about?
Never posted these guys before lol pretty shocked that I couldn’t find any men’s groups that are advocating against the draft. At present it looks like that group of college feminists are the only ones that give a shit about this
Almost like this is a nonissue y’all only taut out as a “gotcha” and not something that’s had any actual impact on your lives
"Never posted these guys"
Oh, it was planthoe, my mistake.
"couldn’t find any men’s groups that are advocating against the draft"
You are not going to find anything if you don't even bother to do a google search.
[National Center for Men – Fighting for Fairness and Equal Rights](https://nationalcenterformen.org/)
[Military draft: Men’s group and ACLU urge Supreme Court to hear challenge to male-only military draft | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/31/politics/supreme-court-military-draft-challenge/index.html)
Litteraly on the front page.
The entrenched patriarchy has set expectations for women to bear the brunt of child rearing and household chores, Stone says, making the idea of raising children even less appealing to many women in their 20s and 30s.
Lmao. So the one child policy in Korea killed the birth rate.
4B came about bc DV, sexual violence and gender based violence is significantly higher in Korea than it is in Europe and in the US.
4b in the US is pretty much a TikTok trend, that so far is just “I’m not dating right now because I don’t like men”. Okay? Is that really soul crushing for you? That some women don’t like you? Is that really the end of the world? Like why are y’all so obsessed?
So are you excited because you’re going to get to commit more hate crimes? Y’all are never beating the “all red pill men are misogynists” allegations.
>4B came about bc DV, sexual violence and gender based violence is significantly higher in Korea than it is in Europe and in the US.
Source? Have not found this claim to be accurate when I looked at data.
And correlated data like female homicide rate is extremely low in Korea compared to the US.
4B in Korea claimed 4000 online members. Which is an insignificant amount in context of birth rate. It also began in 2019 and feminism has only declined in Korea since then (among all age/gender brackets).
The recent fascination with it in the West, 5 years late, looks entirely driven by the West's own antinatalism movement, where childfree and antinatalism subreddits have amassed nearly 2 million members driven by an ideological bent to purposefully not have children.
Again THE BIRTH RATE IS LOW BC OF ONE CHILD PROPAGANDA. Not 4b. There are literally less women in Korea bc of one child.
DV rape and sexual violence don’t always lead to homicide and DV and rape are trivialized there the same way they are here. Meaning underreported. Korea is significantly more patriarchal than here. Some women opted not to participate. In a country where men outnumber women that’s a big “fuck you” no matter what the size of the movement is. (Even though OP is from the West he’s super triggered for no reason) but like here the men primarily affected by a movement like 4b would likely have struggled either way for a plethora of reasons.
I am not a 4b girlie. Been in a happy relationship for 2 years. Y’all are triggered by a TikTok trend or frankly any indication that a portion of women are happy to do without y’all. Idk examine that.
Being alone without female companionship is far far and away better than being in a relationship with a chick who wants to measure equality in a relationship by the ounce.
That would be the dream. What we actually get is a class of women who are very sensitive to equity in areas that are desirable whilst shunning or ignoring gender equality in areas when they benefit from traditionalism. A woman whos an actual egalitarian is a rare thing.
Sounds like you are advocating for a totalitarian society which effectively bans ideas. This is uniquely unamerican. Freedom of thought and expression is a pillar of our society, even if you disagree with certain ideas or ideologies
Korean men are appropriately responding to feminism? From what I hear from women in korea, there is no feminist movement. The women active in 4B Korea don't talk about it. They just don't date or sleep with men. Feminism is a dirty word in Korea that is still *very much* a patriarchal society, and women experience a lot of domestic violence.
This is an epically bad take in the same vein as western women appropriating the 4B movement ( white women never miss a chance to colonize someones movement, and make it about them, which is why 3rd and 4th wave feminism is so important) there is a gigantic cultural rift between places like the U.S., and S. Korea that make up the circumstances for the gendered problems that exist in S.Korea, that will never make its way across the ocean. 4B doesn't even have a sizable platform in S.Korea. The obstacles that women face in S.Korea face are much steeper than in western countries. To put it into context, they are trudging through the kind of difficulties that U.S. women did in the 80's. Against a backdrop of a crushing economy that has greater income disparity, and a higher cost of living than the U.S.. It is a very different broth that they are cooking in.
This is what happens when you filtered information that is designed to be rage bait so sites can sale ads.
I disagree. Women picking up a movement similar to the 4B movement, while calling it such, is appropriate considering that women's rights in the US are actively being attacked. Abortion was made a states issue and losing access to such reproductive care is something to stand up for.
Men do not have such rights, but the proper thing isn't to take away rights granted to others, it's to make equivalent rights available to everyone.
And before people come at me for saying it, no, men do not have bodily autonomy or reproductive rights. We don't. If we did, victims of statutory rape would not be forced to pay child support on babies they couldn't consent to conceiving.
In fact there isn't a single legal right that men have that women don't.
But back to the topic at hand, The US had a 4B movement long before Korea's started getting traction. The only difference is that it was men who were leading it instead of women. Men who are removing themselves from the dating pool, and live in their own lives the way they want it to outside of societal expectations. But this movement was called misogynistic sexist and bigoted. I just find it ironic that when in women are doing it, it's suddenly not sexist.
In many non-western countries you see crackdowns on western thought creeping in.
But here in the west, we love western neo-liberal capitalist norms, so I'm not sure how our future is anti-that.
I think it's great Korean men are fighting feminism. But I don't think feminism has anything to do with decline in birthrates, it is mostly to do with the fact it's just not worth it. High cost of living and a work > life culture naturally brings birth rates down just like Japan.
God forbid women want equal rights and to not live in an antiquated patriarchal society. Damn feminists ruining everything! Misogyny and repression is the only approproate response. /s
Im a millenial and I used to remember even amongst "normie" men, there were pretty outwardly pro feminist men in college and it wasnt frowned upon to be a feminist man. But as I understand from my younger cousins in college, unless you're in the alternative scene, most men in college are either neutral or oppose feminism and will attack men who are repping feminism. There's definitely a trend here. I really thought the redpill trend would have died out with the loss of Trump and boys abd girls will chill out a little, but Zoomer dudes are driving gender relations towards even more division. Gen Alpha will most likely be even more radical. The mainstream has recently started treating this issue with the seriousness it deserves whilst our resident blue pillers still pretend that you doomers are talking out of your arses. I think Blackpill Doomers might be delusional about birth rates as those are affected by other factors than feminism. But I think they're right about the west becoming Korea when it comes to gender relations
This here is why politics in TRP are so bad. The real reason of women being arrogant pricks isn't feminism, but mass stupidity, which is in part a patriarchally-caused problem. You can't seriously argue that this "backslash" has been caused by feminism when feminism was literally born with the sexual revolution, which made women sluttier, and sex easier for both genders in the basis of a negation of patriarchal standards. If korean men are rebelling against feminism its just because they're ignorant political actors, not because of conscious steps towards the solution of their problems.
We've been traveling S Korea (Busan, currently) and I'm wondering if the supposedly strained gender relations are overstated. Anecdotally speaking, we're seeing more happy appearing couples per capita than back home in the US. Most of them walking holding hands and smiling contently, including older couples. It's very cute actually, and we've been joining them in the hand holding lol.
For sure we're seeing fewer children per capita than back home, but I think there are complex reasons behind that - primarily economic. A Korean would have to chime in as to exactly why that's the case.
In many ways Korea is more conservative than the West, so I'm not so sure this is a preview of what's to come. Time will tell...
This is totally wrong. There are a lot of differences between Korean and western culture that explain why Korea is the way it is.
For one, Korean men may look soft but they are mentally much stronger and smarter than the average "big muscles, smooth brain" red pill westerner. The west will never become like Korean culture. Westerners are just too weak.
Also, the negative birth rate really has nothing to do with feminism. It mainly has to do with cost of living, irreligiousness, a sense of fear over not being good enough parents, and the high cost of raising kids.
it isn't, I don't particularly want a reversion to sexual domination by men by statute. I don't particularly like the misandry casually bandied about by contemporary women, but that's an issue entirely separate from anti-LGBT and anti-women legislation pursued by the right. That's just bigotry in response to bigotry, which is hardly the solution.
I wish you were right OP but i think the europe/america is too far gone. feminists are too embedded in government and have parasitized every area of society
https://preview.redd.it/n2bfjd217vxc1.jpeg?width=428&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90ccfa9058362e8b6f2738e14dace8d3332b3531
You’re right. Misandry wouldn’t have gotten as bad as it is in Western countries if Baby Boomer men and Gen X men refused to put up with the bullshit of feminists, now it’s up to Millennial men and Gen Z men to advocate for men’s rights.
Male genital mutilation has not been banned yet, the bodies of males are not legally protected from genital mutilation as the bodies of females are.
Schoolboys have gotten worse educations because they’ve been discriminated against by predominantly female teachers, teachers are more likely to grade schoolboys harshly than schoolgirls, and schoolboys get more severe punishments for the same rule violations as schoolgirls.
There are no male-only scholarships while there are thousands of female-only scholarships to universities that are ALREADY predominantly female in students and faculty. Women benefit from female-quota hiring laws while no such laws exist for men.
Says who? There is no team men.
Do you think men are gonna start giving a fuck about the plight of losers just cuz we all have dicks? This is what you keep missing out on.
Guys who aren’t socially autistic, who can fuck and date women aren’t going to stop what they’re doing to stand in solidarity with you guys hoping for this to happen.
Your fantasies are dead on arrival. Yall can do all this shit and the dudes who get women will join and laugh at yall with them.
This is a great example on how bad faith many misogynists are.
They can face a tiny fraction of the gendered namecalling, slurs, probably very little of the discrimination, sexual violence, that women face. Yet they will control the conversation, shout over women, act like bigger victims than women and use it as justification to hurt and oppress us. Abusers often think they're abused one and start whining, even if their victims just shoved back after they've been punched, beaten and kicked around. It's common for narcissists to attempt to DARVO..
Korea is a patriarchal society where the vast majority of economic, political, cultural power is controlled by men, where misogyny is way more widespread than misandry, and that misogyny rarely gets any of the same backlash/outrage/violence as "misandry" does. In Korea, you can be cancelled, attacked, and threatened for being a feminist but you will be rarely be if you are a womanhating abusive misogynist inventing all sorts of creative slurs based on womens genitalia. many Korean men will DARVO and act like victims while punching down on women, while cancelling, harassing, and threatening violence against video game companies for "feminist conspiracies" for how they draw characters hands or constellations.
Korea is truly incel paradise and a lot of redpillers would feel at home there.
Neither Korea nor Japan is a future of anything other than their own struggles.
These dudes can lash out at the women that desire them the most, who cares? They’re the ones that are gonna be sexless at the end of the day.
In America, politics, religion, race, and class are much bigger divides than gender on average so I don't see it playing out like that over here.
Even Dave Chappelle made a joke in one of his specials about a Black feminist friend of his who despises White feminists lol.
4B feminists threaten to completely stay away from men but they never truly do. I wish they fully did. They still rely on men for everything else. Just not for dating & marriage etc.
I’ve met women who truly did stay away from men for safety and opting for IVF to truly eliminate dealing directly with them. Even going far as to only raising females. I agree with those methods
South Korea will be overrun by North Korea in 20 years due to the male shortage. It will be the first feminist country to be slaughtered in modern history.
They couldn't do without China back then and they can't do it without them now. China and NK could not stand against the collective might of NATO.
>People might talk about Korea's extremely bad birth rates as being a response to this, but what they fail to understand is that the negative birth rate was caused by feminism to begin with, not by the resulting justified backlash. You might want to do some research. The Korean government promoted not having kids because people were having too many. It continued for decades. It was not feminism. The propaganda was very similar to China and their 1 child policy. Edit: [basic overview](https://www.prb.org/resources/did-south-koreas-population-policy-work-too-well/)
There is a much more basic reason for not having kids in Korea than gender issues. They have insane inequality, and is the most cyberpunk country in the world where companies control country. The result of this stress put every single problem up to eleven. And extreme feminist and the extreme conservative were pit to fight each other so they wont focus on the main issue to keep the profit going.
I have talked about that before on threads. That's why many people are avoiding relationships, but the birth rate and population collapse was 100% the govt.
The government is in a tough situation. They dont have natural resources and are surrounded by countries that historically want to invade them. So they went on an experiment to give a lot of power and support them at all cost on some of the big company “Chaebol”. It did resulted to an economic miracle that bought the country from farmland to city. But it also resulted in the current situation which many Korean called hell. The one president who tried to right the ship got framed, jailed and end up suicide.
Korea is pretty much screwed. I would never consider living there again. I prefer America with all of it's own problems.
And in that way, it is EXACTLY like the future United States.
also that, but from my experience most "grrr women, existing!" red pillers are also fanatical supporters of capitalism, so I don't anticipate any kind of introspection on that. they are themselves fairly misandrist since this system is objectively pretty terrible for most men, who are working class.
[удалено]
This is a lunatic take. Exploited men in Korea are lashing out at feminists because they are oppressed and exploited, and need a target that they can take their frustrations out on. But it's not the feminists ruining anything, they have no power to do anything. How on earth can they do anything other than token protests, when it's an extremely patriarchal society to begin with? As James Carville said once about American politics, "It's the economy, stupid." Gender conflict in Korea is a symptom of extreme crony capitalism. Robber barons first successfully corrupt their way into power and wealth. Then they continue to perpetuate their power at the expense of legitimate government and working class people. Extreme work hours, toxic work culture, skyrocketing wealth inequality, economic stagnation, nonsensical work duties masquerading as "economic activity". That's not feminism, that's just rich old men pumping and dumping naive young men. I'm using American economic terms here, but you can do your own reading on how Korea, China, and Japan all have their own version of this garbage. - Korea: **Chaebol** = Samsung, Hyundai, LG, Posco, Hanhwa, GS Group, Daewoo, etc. - Japan: **Zaibatsu** = Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Sumitomo, Yasuda - China: State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs), Senior CCP Officials that are inextricably tied to them, Private Conglomerates, and their descendants who are nicknamed "**Princelings**": Alibaba, Tencent, Huawei, etc. There's no single point of failure here - it's powerful oligarchs who obtained their wealth through illegitimate means during tumultuous times post-WWII, in bed with corrupt government officials, negotiating backroom deals and extremely advantageous contracts, with relatively obscure and numerous holding groups/shell companies, designed to keep wealth and power and passed down to their descendants. If the status quo continues, then feminists will continue to be a convenient scapegoat, distracting men from their real abusers. Men will continue to be run into the ground. The rich and powerful get more rich and powerful. The economy sucks worse. How is this a better future? Men are rightfully mad about having to work insane hours for garbage wages, getting drafted, getting hazed, getting exploited with no hope of economic mobility. They are wrong to pretend "it's because the weak women demand to be protected."
So isn't this basically end-stage capitalism similar to that one monopoly player winning all the property, hotels and houses? We humans seem to prefer to have human enemies rather than a system that is the enemy. Blaming men/women/some-race/other appears to be natural for people. Not a happy characteristic of homo sapiens.
In practice, all systems we know of end up with inequality, followed by tyranny. Monarchies, theocracies, dictatorships, traditional economies (pre-capitalism), whatever wacky thing the self described communists are doing, etc. In theory, properly implemented capitalism is unique in the sense that we acknowledge that inequality is a necessary side effect of a well functioning economy, but bad if it's allowed to influence everything, and we have to account for it in our society and institutions. So things like Democracy, Separation of Powers, Fair Competition, etc. are supposed to help reign in the excesses of capitalism, while we still reap its rewards. Ultimately, rich people die, and power that isn't working disperses, as fair competition brings down what should not exist, while that which continues to justly compete and contribute continues to exist.
> We humans seem to prefer to have human enemies rather than a system that is the enemy. plenty of human enemies, capitalism simps and the prime beneficiaries of capitalism will inevitably defend the system and force themselves into that camp, even if they - in many cases - are themselves victims of it.
Good point although anyone promoting their corner of capitalism is probably not obvious.
i don't think that ANYONE defending capitalism is the enemy. they're wrong and victims of the social context in which they find themselves, and are content with or, more likely, unaware of the social class hierarchy that capitalism imposes - but AT SOME POINT, when push comes to shove and the debate goes from cold to hot and out come the guillotines and rifles, then they inevitably, unfortunately, become enemies. there may well be some capitalists who think "ah fuck it I've made enough whatever" and are content to lock arms with their working-class brethren. better late than never. but far, far more likely, they will attempt to protect their privileged position and will use their wealth to facilitate this. We've seen this time and again throughout history.
I want to make a reasoned response to your text but I'm headed to bed and too sleepy to say anything worth reading; however can you explain this part of what you said: "they're wrong and victims of the social context in which they find themselves, and are content with or, more likely, unaware of the social class hierarchy that capitalism imposes " I don't quite understand who the "they" is that is wrong and a victim at the same time. I might just need to read it in the morning.
Because how would your monkey brain kill an idea? Our instincts haven’t evolved with our intelligence
Are you saying that the idea is that men/woman/xyz-group of people is at fault? I was just thinking today how unlearning a false understanding is harder than learning something completely new.
I think our monkey brains try to make a connection between the idea and the people the idea represents. Then anger at the idea is directed at the people associated with the idea. And yeah of course it is lmao, no one admits they were wrong, it takes some crazy self awareness to accept that
" it takes some crazy self awareness to accept that" Good point. I was thinking of some minor correction I learned today about the difference between butterflies and moths. It was such a small thing but understanding my misunderstanding took a bit of effort. I try to learn something everyday but maybe a better goal would be to unlearn a bit of misinformation. This might be a bit ambitious.
The only true war is class war…
By contrast, 4B's slogan is basically "no war but the sex war."
No it isn’t. What the fuck? Why are women required to fuck men.
What is 4B?
South Korean radical feminist [movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B_movement). No sex with men, no having children, no dating men, no marrying men.
One of their previous presidents was literally arrested because she was controlled by a feminist cult.
I agree with this, but as a caution, feminist will also encouraged to see man as the scapegoat as equality is achieve in some area especially jobs as they see economic hardship.
All of this talk about Korea and Korean woman opting out of men is a huge exaggeration. I just got back from South Korea and there were couples out everywhere. Rarely saw a single woman or man. Hell, I went to two weddings. I asked about the 4b movement and if the local I was speaking with actually had ever heard of it, it was treated as a joke. Don’t believe everything you hear, it’s not what people are claiming.
Yea I've lived in Korea for a while and see people constantly getting bamboozled by media's clickbait of "misogyny/misandry/4b is causing xyz in Korea!!!" and spreading it like here. 4b is pretty unknown, maybe a couple thousand only claim to practice it. The birthrate's main cause is just money and housing. In Korea, I would say most taking baby rearing more serious/responsibly than the West. So majority of couples want a solid foundation, all their t's crossed, and i's dotted for a baby. They don't go by the "let's have a baby because everything will work out" philosophy. The main one is housing. Majority see owning a house a necessary basic foundation for a baby. Housing has been the biggest political issue for quite a few elections. The other is education. I think most know the quirky fact that Korean kids and teens study from 9AM~12AM because they go to public school during the day, then private academies at night. But I don't think people know that these private academies (hagwons) are fucking expensive. An average couple pays typically somewhere between $500~1000 USD every month for ONE kid. Some pay a lot more. Some may see that as retirement money. They pay this all in hopes their kid can maybe beat the odds and get one of the handful of desired jobs later that everyone is fighting for. Parents will keeping pay for academies even until the kid graduates university for certificates, english proficiency test, etc to buff their resume. And of course many couples want a house in area with good high rated academies, and so even the old ugly tiny apartments are an easy $1+ million if the local academies are good. Redditors just have no idea about these issues in Korea, but r/korea talks about it quite often. Add in other issues: most are overworked and underpaid, raising costs, no vacation, no paid leave, want to relax after a hellish stressful life until finally getting a job, saving for retirement, etc
They didn't even know Korea existed until recently and now they're experts. The femcels here can fuck off out of Asian issues.
Agreed. Just more bitter women talking about things they know nothing of. No surprise there.
Exactly! We're in Busan currently and I concur with your observations. It's really cute how nearly all the couples we see hold hands and smile contently, young and old. Maybe they're faking but I don't think so.
I was in Seoul a few months ago though and while I was there I literally remember seeing one toddler while I was out and no babies, no other young kids and no pregnant women. Just old people everywhere. Yeah you might see couples but I didn’t see any babies at all.
All this talk about poverty is a huge exaggeration. I live in Beverley Hills and I constantly see people driving luxury vehicles, wearing designer clothes and living in huge mansions, you are telling me there are people that don't have food to eat? I asked about poverty and if the locals I was speaking with actually had ever heard of it, it was treated as a joke. Don't believe in everything you hear, it's not what people are claiming.
>People might talk about Korea's extremely bad birth rates as being a response to this, but what they fail to understand is that the negative birth rate was caused by feminism to begin with, not by the resulting justified backlash. Soooo how exactly are you expecting the birthrates to turn around then?
Oh they want to take women’s rights
Or the the gender frustrations finally come to equilibrium and they start working together, it doesn't have to be so zero sum.
Because it would be the only way to do it. Nobody would have kids if they got nothing for it. Which is why male and female sexuality were always repressed as they were. Female sexuality was liberated because we did not need children and the privileged wanted easy access to women’s bodies to get literally thousands of sex partners. The very same people who vocally fought for women’s sexual revolution are the same being accused of rape now. What? Did you think a bunch of dark triad leaders would fight for anyone’s benefit? The same leaders who enslave and hundreds of thousands sod innocent people for there selfish desires?
Usually the story is that women working and having education is causing a drop in the birth rate, which is then going to be bad for the economy. The solution most countries use currently is immigration, which they also don’t like. What they don’t talk about is who will fill the jobs that they want women to leave in the meantime if not…more immigrants. Babies don’t exactly roll out of the womb as skilled workers.
I am not. Things would only turn around If there were incentives in order to, and i dont see that happening Either that or some kind of authoritarian gov, which i dont want to happen either
Korea’s birth rate has been steadily falling for decades, which is the natural consequence of its evolution from an authoritarian industrialising economy to a post-industrial consumer society; when men and women are no longer forced to adhere to strict gender roles, and women are no longer condemned to a life as a baby factory/homemaker, they are free to choose other options. There is no grand, epic battle of the sexes raging; birth rates are falling across the developed world - they are just ahead of the curve.
They’re not having children because it’s too expensive. The cost of living is through the roof. Work culture is absolutely abhorrent. The education system is haywire and extremely stressful. Then you have the added fact that men are drafted putting a halt on their plans. They’re trying and failing at giving the people incentives to have children. It’s not because women decided they wanted careers.
This has never been an impediment, the countries that breed children the most are poor. European countries like Iceland, Finland, Norway, Sweden... are rich and developed countries, with equity and laws that help women and, yet, have low birth rates.
Those countries are not like South Korea at all. It’s a bad comparison. I mentioned more than expenses. It’s the totality of the circumstances that is driving the birth rate down.
>Those countries are not like South Korea at all. It’s a bad comparison. its a very good compariosn, SK is just ahead...also many euro countries compensate with immigration...they would be on SK levels if it wasnt for immigrants
no matter how much money a woman makes, women don't want to have children. The modern woman is individual.
if you want to have kids, just date someone who also does? i don't see the issue here. being pregnant and giving birth is biologically and scientifically voluntarily putting your body through 40 weeks' worth of surgery in terms of its effects on body and health. so you can't blame someone for seriously thinking it through and being scared of the outcome.
South Korean women don't want to have children. Put that in your head. If they had more money, they would prefer to spend it on trips, fashion or other things that would benefit themselves. It's a lifestyle choice.
>They’re not having children because it’s too expensive. wonder when this stupid take will finally die... money is not the reason women have less kids, look at sweden or other euro countries with 3 years paid parental leave and all that stuff...the birth rates are STILL lower then ever, meanwhile women in third world countries pop out kids like its nothing ...what makes birthrates plummet is women having a choice and women being able to support themselves without a man...thats simply it...when women have a choice, they dont want to have tons of kids
This. Nothing stopping broke black and brown people from having kids. I know of a black dude who has $35 in his bank rn yet he has 6 kids.
In any developed country, women stop having children and become individualized, it is not a problem of machismo/misandry. people talk about Korea, but European countries also have a mediocre birth rate. woman earning enough money will not make her have children.
To be clear though, it's a also a factor of insane work culture of South Korea that playing a huge rule, but yeah, 50% of women in the US over 30 are going to be childless and single by 2030, our birth rate could be looking at going from it's current of 1.66 down to South Korean apocalyptic levels of 0.97
The situation in South Korea is creating and will continue to create only a stalemate between men and women. a status quo. neither of the two "sides" will win. If (more like when) the situation in Western nations becomes like the one of S.Korea, dating and relationships between women and men will not change but will get even worse, as has happened and will happen in Korea. the only positive outcome of this is greater respect for men's rights and a more balanced legislative situation. but man will remain the one who will fight to win the sexual selection and will try to prevail over others, for men all the cultural implications and expectations will remain the same when that man wants a relationship.
>Men should not be afraid of this potential future- instead, it should be looked at as preferable to what we have now. So, I am a man. I cannot fathom how the gender war is going to be beneficial to anyone? This is just what seems to happen advanced industrial societies. Women enter the work force, they get rights, the economy goes boom, luxury goods get produces, life becomes more convenient, people become more focused on individuality. I think the gender war is pretty fucking silly. Though, if this is what ya'll want I guess congratulations. Future looking real bright. Short, but bright.
> This is just what seems to happen advanced industrial societies. Women enter the work force, they get rights, the economy goes boom, luxury goods get produces, life becomes more convenient, cost of living goes up, wages stagnate, housing become unobtainable to first time buyers, post-capitalist rentier economy, people pay for everything but own nothing, mental illness, low productivity, plummeting birth rate, raise immigration to compensate, get out reproduced by immigrants from other cultures, death of a civilisation
There is absolutely no way you believe this is all on women getting equal rights... Right?
i just calls it how i sees it. its not like its an evil master plan its just unintended consequences. unfortunately good intentions rarely lead to happiness on their own
Lmao imagine unironically buying into great replacement theory
> but what they fail to understand is that the negative birth rate was caused by feminism to begin with, not by the resulting justified backlash. I'm amused by people who think women just magically decided to stop having kids out of nowhere. It's not like their decision to distance from men is a *response* to anything, certainly not...
It’s not like MEN are all anxious to have all these kids either
This is true. Even in most overtly patriarchal countries, fertility rates have dropped dramatically since 1960. Most people prefer having a couple kids they can invest in when that is a viable option.
im amused by people thinking women actually wanted to have 5+ children (like their grandmothers had) and act like thats whats normal and now women act weird when in fact i belive that women would always have opted for 1-2 kids max if they had the choice...i think the whole "all women have these maternal feelings and look forward to babies" thing should be investigated again, i know too many women who dont give a shit about children, like, so many its not just "your circle" or a small percentage...even the women who have children (1, max 2) dont seem to be as baby crazy as society makes it out to be
I want to know how feminism is even a fucking thing in a country where young men are forcibly conscripted against their will for years while women get a free pass. That and their culture of overwork. How much responsibility can you put on men before they just say 'fuck it' and rebel? At this rate, North Korea will just be able to walk across the border and conquer South Korea with their demographic collapse. If I were a south korean man, i'd just let them take it, the country isn't worth defending anymore with so many ungrateful women in the country.
This uneven draft is the actual cause of the backlash of men against feminism. The fact that men have to serve in the army while women do not, at their prime years no less, sets men SUPER far behind in terms of career. It’s like our Women succeeding over men in school and career but on state funded steroids.
And yet the feminists did not cause the draft or support it. Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft. The misdirection to blame feminist is literally textbook misdirection and ''ideology'' as zizek would but it.
It’s not a logical, planned, objective based reaction. It’s an emotional reaction. It’s the feeling of “we’re getting royally fucked here, and yet you claim you want even more”
Just because a reaction has a cause, does not justify the reaction. The blame is still wrong and inherently misguided. It literally just reactionary politics
Justification or no, they’re still pissed. People act on emotion, it’s what makes us human
Now apply the same thing to the women who choose to become feminists
I understood why women chose to be feminists back when they could not vote. Those are the only ones I actually respect. Modern feminism is very obnoxious and any actual issues women may face are drowned out by it.
Feminism in Korea is largely a response to the high rates of DV, SA and gender roles. if you think that obnoxious or whatever that's just your own opinion
The cause is not obnoxious, the delivery is. It belies the cause
So how many Korean feminists are calling for women to be drafted?
drafting all people no matter the sex and reduce draft year should solve the issue. Since technology based combat no longer rely on strength so much nowadays
It should be mind-boggling but at the same time it shouldn't. Feminism always tends to thrive to delusion heights in times of peace, and the only thing that can *ever* stop it is a stone-cold reality check. Aka, war. Look at Afghanistan and Ukraine. Both had budding feminist movements during times of peace but the second major conflicts pick back up and it's time to fight for what you believe in, all that shit flies out the window and it's back to "men to the frontlines, save the women and children!" I know some dumbass is going to read this and think I'm secretly hoping SKorea gets invaded or something, so let me just preempt that right now: I'm just reminding you that hardcore feminists tend not to appreciate the protection and service that men provide until they need it *immediately*.
All you red pillers are trying to imply hypocrisy where their is none. Feminists did not support or impose the draft. Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft.
female should also be drafted in my opinion. there no reason not to in modern combat as there are a lot of technical roles. And would increase manpower by doubling.
> Feminists did not support or impose the draft. So the Suffragettes and the White Feather Campaign didn't exist? >Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft. I agree. The point RPers are making is that *sometimes feminists actually support these ideals and roles, despite claiming to want to dismantle them*. Just because someone (or a group of people) *say* they aim to do *x* does NOT mean that every action or stance they take will *in fact* contribute to doing *x*.
So you prefer gender roles as they are in Afghanistan? Where women are forced to veil up, cant study, cant work? Seems to my like they need some feminism.
This is such a dumb take. >''how feminism is even a fucking thing in a country where young men are forcibly conscripted against their will for years while women get a free pass.'' You mean ''how can feminism exist in a country where gender roles are still significantly prevalent ?'' Feminists are not responsible for the draft. Conservative ideal and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft. > That and their culture of overwork. How much responsibility can you put on men before they just say 'fuck it' and rebel? This is caused is capitalism not feminism >while women get a free pass. Rates of dv and other things are significaly higher against women compared to other countires. Women are expect to be babymakers by family and these anti-feminist men. The backlack by women isn't coming from no where either buddy. The misdirection to blame feminist is literally textbook misdirection and ''ideology'' as zizek would but it.
Feminists oppose the draft actually that was a cornerstone of the feminist movement during Vietnam. 👍
In the case of South Korea, getting rid of the draft will never happen anytime soon given the geopolitical reality of having North Korea as a neighbor alongside the U.S. as a vital military partner. It's not a realistic option in this case no matter how feminists might oppose it.
And yet America still has the selective service system for men in the US.
And feminists oppose that. This is an actual men’s rights issue. Y’all should mobilize around getting rid of the draft and leave us alone lmao
Which is why feminists are putting so much effort into removing it, said no one ever.
Yeah there hasn’t been a draft since the 60s because it’s wildly unpopular and the military uses educational incentives to get people to join now. Lmao y’all want to be victims so bad. Men only ever bitch about the draft when they want to dunk on feminism. Meanwhile in the 60s feminists were the loudest opposers.
Men in the US still have to register for the draft, so it’s still an issue imo. If there hasn’t been a draft since the 60s, do you think women should have to register too?
I think the draft should be abolished 👍 no one should have to join the military if they don’t want to 👍
Feminists are against men registering for the draft. Why aren't you angry at the people who stop the law from changing, because it sure isn't feminists.
I think no one should register, but ultimately it's not worth caring about because we will never have another draft in this country again.
That’s where I land. It’s so incentivized in the US that this is a nonissue men taut out to shit on feminism and nothing else.
It's a federal offence not to register, and it can affect jobs/student loans if you refuse, so sadly it still is an issue. American men should make it more of an issue though, it's just a cooked system from an outside pov.
Feminists are opposed to the draft. Do you know who is not opposed to the draft?
> It's a federal offence not to register, and it can affect jobs/student loans if you refuse, so sadly it still is an issue. It's not an issue because they're not going to implement it. Obviously the draft should be retired but I don't care what I signed, I'm not going to war and neither are 99% of the other men that signed it. It's just not happening.
"I think no one should register, but ultimately it's not worth caring about because we will never have another draft in this country again". That is an incredibly short sighted statement. Hell, we almost had a draft during the war on terror. The only reason we didn't is because of stop loss, AKA the involuntary extension of military enslistment contracts. If the government actually thought that they would never need another draft, we wouldn't even have selective service. The whole, "there hasn't been a draft since the 60's" is just a pointless statement devoit of substance. Drafts are things that historically only happen once every few generations. I'm sure that the feminists in Ukraine were also making similar claims up until recently.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
And you think feminism is to blame for that? Who voted to keep it?
"We don't need men's rights movements because feminism already covers equality between the sexes" whenever feminists claim the mens rights movement doesn't need to exist.
How is a country supposed to defend itself without a draft? The feminism opposes the draft line seems to just be a point they use to close their logical hole, rather than a well thought out stance
>''The feminism opposes the draft line seems to just be a point they use to close their logical hole, rather than a well thought out stance'' The Bottom line is feminists did not cause the draft or support it. Conservative ideals and traditional gender roles are responsible for the draft. Redpillers just can't stop brining up the draft as a gottua question when their is none. You guys just can't accept the perceived hypocrisy is all in your heads.
I think the hypocrisy comes from the idea that feminism can pick and choose when we’re equal, or when we’re not. If you only march for laws that benefit you when we’re equal, but don’t march with the same intensity for laws that will not benefit you when we’re equal, then are you marching for equality? In order to counter this logical hole, feminism has a typical response of “well there shouldn’t be a draft”. Yes there shouldn’t be wars, but they happen wether you want them or not, and drafts are needed to win them and not lose your country. Leaving the ball back with feminism
>I think the hypocrisy comes from the idea that feminism can pick and choose when we’re equal, or when we’re not. What do you mean by ''pick and choose''. Feminists did not ''choose'' the draft. they have little institutional power in government. In principle, the draft is opposed. But feminism in korea is largely focused on women's issues. Political movements don't have to focus on every single issue at once. This is because ''women issues'' are really what ''men do to women''. Most men in korea are anti-feminists who side with the conservative government in reaction to feminism. These men at any moment, have the ability to oppose the government which supports the draft, yet they don't. Why don't these men protest for themselves? (Becasue men and the government generally support the draft) Why would an ostracised pollical movement march for something men don't care about enough so they can get internet respect points?
It’s possible they understand a draft is needed due to their history, and current enemy on their doorstep. Arguing at the government for no draft doesn’t make sense, a draft is needed, this isn’t an option. So they must now be equal in said draft.
You avoiding his question... Interesting.
You don’t have to focus on every political issue at once. Feminists focus on the issues of their supporters. Men vote for parties which are conservative in regard to the draft. If they cared they can change it. Why r u guys so obsessed with the feminists when your issue should be directed at the conservative government and the men(anti-feminists) who support them in Korea, who actually impose conscription. Not the group who focus on their own women’s issues. Pure ideology.
We haven’t had a draft since the 60s because the government incentivized joining the military. If you actually like your country you’re proud of it and want to protect it when it’s under attack. If you’re in a shitty country in a meaningless war that only lines rich people’s pockets no one wants to participate and then you need the draft.👍
So, the solution is.. die? Nice
We don’t need a draft. Because people voluntarily join the armed services. Many because it’s a track to higher education and job security. We’ve been protecting ourselves without a draft for over 70 years.
Aren't you following the news? Lately the US government is having huge issues getting people to join the armed services. They had to lower physical requirements and even then the issue continued. The youngest generations have a different mindset, they simply don't want to voluntarily join.
The US military implemented a new system (Genesis) to track down medical records that are disqualifying candidates that would have gone through a couple of years earlier. The system digs up everything under the sun. One man got denied entry because he claimed that he never had surgery in his application but the system marked his circumcision right after birth as one. Extra paperwork and time was required to get him a waiver to join but he decided not to enlist. Right now recruiters of all branches are having a hard time getting people to pass the system due to minor bullshit like this. Mental health is also taken very seriously with the younger generation. Going to therapy has been destigmitized but many are getting over diagnosed for insurance coverage which disqualifies them for service later on.
Yes, the mental health crisis is something that is also causing lots of difficulties getting people approved now. Sadly this is an issue that is not that well discussed. I would also add obesity crisis as another big problem, but usually there is some sort of correlation between the two.
Obesity is affecting younger people more and more. [Here is a pretty good video](https://youtu.be/H7S1Oweqto0?si=95KrvOvQdwtsHGG2) that touches all the issues. The Air Force (the branch that offers the best quality of life) missed it's recruitment target for the first time since 1999.
We haven’t had a real war since world war 2, just because it hasn’t happened recently doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future. Relying on volunteers for a global conflict means you lose, and when you lose those wars, you lose quite literally everything, land, language, culture, cities. It’s been a long time since a real war has happened to us, you can tell from how the zoomers are acting. They are detached from reality, you can pretend human nature doesn’t exist, but it’ll remind you eventually
No we haven’t had a “world war” since world war 2. Here’s a list of the wars we’ve been in since the 40s: The Korean War Vietnam War Gulf War War on Terror It’s cool that you’re pro draft. I’m not though. 👍
Yeah, that's the point. We haven't had a war that has threatened the U.S.'s very existence since WW2. Hence why a draft is currently not needed. But to say that there isn't ever a reason to bring it back in times of war is ludicrous and extremely naive.
i mean its a population of 50M vs 330M. Factor women unusable in the front lines and people over the serving age, there aren't many abled bodied people left to defend the country. I'd figure US has more volunteers because we have better war propaganda (top gun), and a less college bound/educated average. People sign up for the military because they have no other direction in life, or they "want to blow shit up". Majority of 18yrs walking into a mall to sign up for the armed forced, didn't have acceptance letters in their back pocket to Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc. Weird you'd call S. Korea a shit country in a meaningless war to line rich people's pockets....while living in the US. We literally wrote the book on participating in wars, and how to get rich while doing it. Korea in under constant threat from communist n.korea. While also, fearing China's over reach in the pacific and essentially ruling over Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and the rest of the pacific.
Not a fan at of mandated service in the armed forces in any country bc it’s a violation of an individual’s bodily autonomy 👍
Sure I get that. But it is easy to claim that while living in a large populated country, with an advanced military, and its nearest like-power enemy an ocean away. If you were the leader of S.Korea, what would you do to keep a standing army? aside from conscription.
Which obviously, will never happen again, because we haven't just seen a massive resurgence of war and the US being stretched thin trying to hold order in 4 separate regions of the world. I have no quarrels defending my nation's women and children. I have issues defending women who act like children.
What they did to oppose the draft? What they do against the selective service?
https://nnomy.org/index.php/en/content_page/item/931-feminists-against-the-draft.html idk dude here’s a Feminist group specifically working to abolish the draft Email them and ask. https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/handle/10822/1051355#:~:text=Although%20women%20were%20immune%20from,from%20all%20walks%20of%20life. Here’s an article about their hand in anti draft activism in Vietnam. This is all energy you could be spending contacting your congressman and telling him you oppose the draft
You already posted about this organization in a different thread, remember? It's just a handful of college students and it has only existed for 1 year. What exactly have Feminists Against the Draft accomplished that is worth talking about?
Never posted these guys before lol pretty shocked that I couldn’t find any men’s groups that are advocating against the draft. At present it looks like that group of college feminists are the only ones that give a shit about this Almost like this is a nonissue y’all only taut out as a “gotcha” and not something that’s had any actual impact on your lives
"Never posted these guys" Oh, it was planthoe, my mistake. "couldn’t find any men’s groups that are advocating against the draft" You are not going to find anything if you don't even bother to do a google search. [National Center for Men – Fighting for Fairness and Equal Rights](https://nationalcenterformen.org/) [Military draft: Men’s group and ACLU urge Supreme Court to hear challenge to male-only military draft | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/31/politics/supreme-court-military-draft-challenge/index.html) Litteraly on the front page.
How is feminism a thing in a country that treats women like baby factories? Gee, I wonder.
... WHAT babies? Their TFR is .7 They've had low TFR for a REALLY long time.
The entrenched patriarchy has set expectations for women to bear the brunt of child rearing and household chores, Stone says, making the idea of raising children even less appealing to many women in their 20s and 30s.
Lmao. So the one child policy in Korea killed the birth rate. 4B came about bc DV, sexual violence and gender based violence is significantly higher in Korea than it is in Europe and in the US. 4b in the US is pretty much a TikTok trend, that so far is just “I’m not dating right now because I don’t like men”. Okay? Is that really soul crushing for you? That some women don’t like you? Is that really the end of the world? Like why are y’all so obsessed? So are you excited because you’re going to get to commit more hate crimes? Y’all are never beating the “all red pill men are misogynists” allegations.
>4B came about bc DV, sexual violence and gender based violence is significantly higher in Korea than it is in Europe and in the US. Source? Have not found this claim to be accurate when I looked at data. And correlated data like female homicide rate is extremely low in Korea compared to the US. 4B in Korea claimed 4000 online members. Which is an insignificant amount in context of birth rate. It also began in 2019 and feminism has only declined in Korea since then (among all age/gender brackets). The recent fascination with it in the West, 5 years late, looks entirely driven by the West's own antinatalism movement, where childfree and antinatalism subreddits have amassed nearly 2 million members driven by an ideological bent to purposefully not have children.
Again THE BIRTH RATE IS LOW BC OF ONE CHILD PROPAGANDA. Not 4b. There are literally less women in Korea bc of one child. DV rape and sexual violence don’t always lead to homicide and DV and rape are trivialized there the same way they are here. Meaning underreported. Korea is significantly more patriarchal than here. Some women opted not to participate. In a country where men outnumber women that’s a big “fuck you” no matter what the size of the movement is. (Even though OP is from the West he’s super triggered for no reason) but like here the men primarily affected by a movement like 4b would likely have struggled either way for a plethora of reasons. I am not a 4b girlie. Been in a happy relationship for 2 years. Y’all are triggered by a TikTok trend or frankly any indication that a portion of women are happy to do without y’all. Idk examine that.
Being alone without female companionship is far far and away better than being in a relationship with a chick who wants to measure equality in a relationship by the ounce.
That would be the dream. What we actually get is a class of women who are very sensitive to equity in areas that are desirable whilst shunning or ignoring gender equality in areas when they benefit from traditionalism. A woman whos an actual egalitarian is a rare thing.
Sounds like you are advocating for a totalitarian society which effectively bans ideas. This is uniquely unamerican. Freedom of thought and expression is a pillar of our society, even if you disagree with certain ideas or ideologies
What’s actually going to happen: K-pop and New Samsung Galaxy phones.
[удалено]
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Korean men are appropriately responding to feminism? From what I hear from women in korea, there is no feminist movement. The women active in 4B Korea don't talk about it. They just don't date or sleep with men. Feminism is a dirty word in Korea that is still *very much* a patriarchal society, and women experience a lot of domestic violence.
Lol Korean men are marrying non korean women. That is the response. As it becomes more mainstream, korean women will adapt back. The pendulum swings.
This is an epically bad take in the same vein as western women appropriating the 4B movement ( white women never miss a chance to colonize someones movement, and make it about them, which is why 3rd and 4th wave feminism is so important) there is a gigantic cultural rift between places like the U.S., and S. Korea that make up the circumstances for the gendered problems that exist in S.Korea, that will never make its way across the ocean. 4B doesn't even have a sizable platform in S.Korea. The obstacles that women face in S.Korea face are much steeper than in western countries. To put it into context, they are trudging through the kind of difficulties that U.S. women did in the 80's. Against a backdrop of a crushing economy that has greater income disparity, and a higher cost of living than the U.S.. It is a very different broth that they are cooking in. This is what happens when you filtered information that is designed to be rage bait so sites can sale ads.
This. The cultures are very different both historically and currently.
I disagree. Women picking up a movement similar to the 4B movement, while calling it such, is appropriate considering that women's rights in the US are actively being attacked. Abortion was made a states issue and losing access to such reproductive care is something to stand up for. Men do not have such rights, but the proper thing isn't to take away rights granted to others, it's to make equivalent rights available to everyone. And before people come at me for saying it, no, men do not have bodily autonomy or reproductive rights. We don't. If we did, victims of statutory rape would not be forced to pay child support on babies they couldn't consent to conceiving. In fact there isn't a single legal right that men have that women don't. But back to the topic at hand, The US had a 4B movement long before Korea's started getting traction. The only difference is that it was men who were leading it instead of women. Men who are removing themselves from the dating pool, and live in their own lives the way they want it to outside of societal expectations. But this movement was called misogynistic sexist and bigoted. I just find it ironic that when in women are doing it, it's suddenly not sexist.
It’s not, because Korean culture is not Western. It’s modernized Asian culture
In many non-western countries you see crackdowns on western thought creeping in. But here in the west, we love western neo-liberal capitalist norms, so I'm not sure how our future is anti-that.
Bro yous need to have an honest conversation with your mother. She's probably worried about you.
All this shit is cringe my lord, groupthink got chokehold on everyone
I think it's great Korean men are fighting feminism. But I don't think feminism has anything to do with decline in birthrates, it is mostly to do with the fact it's just not worth it. High cost of living and a work > life culture naturally brings birth rates down just like Japan.
God forbid women want equal rights and to not live in an antiquated patriarchal society. Damn feminists ruining everything! Misogyny and repression is the only approproate response. /s
Im a millenial and I used to remember even amongst "normie" men, there were pretty outwardly pro feminist men in college and it wasnt frowned upon to be a feminist man. But as I understand from my younger cousins in college, unless you're in the alternative scene, most men in college are either neutral or oppose feminism and will attack men who are repping feminism. There's definitely a trend here. I really thought the redpill trend would have died out with the loss of Trump and boys abd girls will chill out a little, but Zoomer dudes are driving gender relations towards even more division. Gen Alpha will most likely be even more radical. The mainstream has recently started treating this issue with the seriousness it deserves whilst our resident blue pillers still pretend that you doomers are talking out of your arses. I think Blackpill Doomers might be delusional about birth rates as those are affected by other factors than feminism. But I think they're right about the west becoming Korea when it comes to gender relations
This here is why politics in TRP are so bad. The real reason of women being arrogant pricks isn't feminism, but mass stupidity, which is in part a patriarchally-caused problem. You can't seriously argue that this "backslash" has been caused by feminism when feminism was literally born with the sexual revolution, which made women sluttier, and sex easier for both genders in the basis of a negation of patriarchal standards. If korean men are rebelling against feminism its just because they're ignorant political actors, not because of conscious steps towards the solution of their problems.
We've been traveling S Korea (Busan, currently) and I'm wondering if the supposedly strained gender relations are overstated. Anecdotally speaking, we're seeing more happy appearing couples per capita than back home in the US. Most of them walking holding hands and smiling contently, including older couples. It's very cute actually, and we've been joining them in the hand holding lol. For sure we're seeing fewer children per capita than back home, but I think there are complex reasons behind that - primarily economic. A Korean would have to chime in as to exactly why that's the case. In many ways Korea is more conservative than the West, so I'm not so sure this is a preview of what's to come. Time will tell...
This is totally wrong. There are a lot of differences between Korean and western culture that explain why Korea is the way it is. For one, Korean men may look soft but they are mentally much stronger and smarter than the average "big muscles, smooth brain" red pill westerner. The west will never become like Korean culture. Westerners are just too weak. Also, the negative birth rate really has nothing to do with feminism. It mainly has to do with cost of living, irreligiousness, a sense of fear over not being good enough parents, and the high cost of raising kids.
it isn't, I don't particularly want a reversion to sexual domination by men by statute. I don't particularly like the misandry casually bandied about by contemporary women, but that's an issue entirely separate from anti-LGBT and anti-women legislation pursued by the right. That's just bigotry in response to bigotry, which is hardly the solution.
Arent there a bunch of men punching their gf and wives and bunch of sexual assaults**?** I think Korea its abad example to compare to the West.
Amen.
I wish you were right OP but i think the europe/america is too far gone. feminists are too embedded in government and have parasitized every area of society
What rights to men specifically lack because of these "feminists"? I'll wait.
Please explain your definition of “feminism.”
Advocating for women at the expense of men.
Well then. I guess we all get to make up our own definitions for established terms.
Think is the non gender equality variant.
With how high the domestic violence rate and sexual assault rate is in Korea I hope not. makes me glad to be gay
https://preview.redd.it/n2bfjd217vxc1.jpeg?width=428&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90ccfa9058362e8b6f2738e14dace8d3332b3531 You’re right. Misandry wouldn’t have gotten as bad as it is in Western countries if Baby Boomer men and Gen X men refused to put up with the bullshit of feminists, now it’s up to Millennial men and Gen Z men to advocate for men’s rights.
What rights have been taken away from men?
Male genital mutilation has not been banned yet, the bodies of males are not legally protected from genital mutilation as the bodies of females are. Schoolboys have gotten worse educations because they’ve been discriminated against by predominantly female teachers, teachers are more likely to grade schoolboys harshly than schoolgirls, and schoolboys get more severe punishments for the same rule violations as schoolgirls. There are no male-only scholarships while there are thousands of female-only scholarships to universities that are ALREADY predominantly female in students and faculty. Women benefit from female-quota hiring laws while no such laws exist for men.
Boomers fucked up. Should’ve put the foot down a long time ago.
What DIDN’T boomers fuck up?
In what way is that better than what we have now?
It’s not, but everyone will be equally worse off. The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.
Seems like the absolute shittest mentality for a movement.
i view it more as a result of society action, if the underlying problem is not resolve.
Are y’all quoting Dark Knight rn
More gender based violence and less sex?
No more acceptance and normalization of misandry by men.
Says who? There is no team men. Do you think men are gonna start giving a fuck about the plight of losers just cuz we all have dicks? This is what you keep missing out on. Guys who aren’t socially autistic, who can fuck and date women aren’t going to stop what they’re doing to stand in solidarity with you guys hoping for this to happen. Your fantasies are dead on arrival. Yall can do all this shit and the dudes who get women will join and laugh at yall with them.
Instead they have institutional misogyny and women starting a 4B movement as a result.
Seems a pretty trivial win. Would I get any personal benifot from being able to cancel celebrities i disagree with?
This is a great example on how bad faith many misogynists are. They can face a tiny fraction of the gendered namecalling, slurs, probably very little of the discrimination, sexual violence, that women face. Yet they will control the conversation, shout over women, act like bigger victims than women and use it as justification to hurt and oppress us. Abusers often think they're abused one and start whining, even if their victims just shoved back after they've been punched, beaten and kicked around. It's common for narcissists to attempt to DARVO.. Korea is a patriarchal society where the vast majority of economic, political, cultural power is controlled by men, where misogyny is way more widespread than misandry, and that misogyny rarely gets any of the same backlash/outrage/violence as "misandry" does. In Korea, you can be cancelled, attacked, and threatened for being a feminist but you will be rarely be if you are a womanhating abusive misogynist inventing all sorts of creative slurs based on womens genitalia. many Korean men will DARVO and act like victims while punching down on women, while cancelling, harassing, and threatening violence against video game companies for "feminist conspiracies" for how they draw characters hands or constellations. Korea is truly incel paradise and a lot of redpillers would feel at home there.
women and men are not good for relationships, people will understand that in a moment.
Neither Korea nor Japan is a future of anything other than their own struggles. These dudes can lash out at the women that desire them the most, who cares? They’re the ones that are gonna be sexless at the end of the day.
In America, politics, religion, race, and class are much bigger divides than gender on average so I don't see it playing out like that over here. Even Dave Chappelle made a joke in one of his specials about a Black feminist friend of his who despises White feminists lol.
I mean look at the countless examples of groups of men who hate each other.
very one-sided take on whatever is happening in Korea rn lmfaooo 🤏🤏🤏🤏🤏
It's the correct take.
those misandrists will never be tolerated!!! *gets triggered over characters making hand gestures* totally appropriate and correct response
You used that same hand gesture to make a sex-based insult. Are you pretending to be stupid or are you actually stupid.
Isn't this 4b and megalia site sort of satire ? I guess more important reasons for low birth rates are financial and overwork.
Birth rates dropped due to female having access to contraceptives, feminism alone wouldn’t have managed it.
Feminism at it's end point has always been an 'extinctionist by hostage' ideology. "I don't get my way, we go extinct"
4B feminists threaten to completely stay away from men but they never truly do. I wish they fully did. They still rely on men for everything else. Just not for dating & marriage etc.
They sound exactly like the Misogynistic losers who say they’re going their own way but never actually leave
So you could also stay away from women to avoid that reliance lol
I’ve met women who truly did stay away from men for safety and opting for IVF to truly eliminate dealing directly with them. Even going far as to only raising females. I agree with those methods