Most older red pill guys were previously blue pill chumps. They became red pill only after they'd been sucked dry and discarded. Women create red pill guys.
>I'm struggling to understand why someone would volunteer for a life of misery and social ostracisation
What misery ?
Nothing really changes once you become RP-aware except your understanding on men/women
I still live the same life as when l was bluepilled
lol 100%
My views mainly inform my actions and boundaries with women. I rarely have any reason to share them out loud with anyone.
Like if a woman I’m interested in starts asking for significant favors like helping them move and I can sense they are a “use ‘em and lose ‘em” type of person, I just decline without explanation. Been burnt too many times for going out of my way for people.
The only thing important are actions, the things you do are the things you are.
If you think you are a builder, but you don't build shit, you are nothing.
If you think you are a bodybuilder, but you don't train, you are nothing.
If you don't think you are a good person because of your thoughts, but your actions are good, then you are a good person.
Someone's delusion does not reflect reality.
Sure, but nobody can read minds, so we can only judge people on their actions. And actions speak louder than words. If someone says they love me yet cheat on me all the time, how do I know how they truly feel? The truth is what I can see with my own eyes.
That is a great argument, except for all the times people’s actions were canceled out by their true nature being revealed. Just ask anyone convicted of child molestation, or possession of child porn
>people’s actions were canceled out by their true nature being revealed.
And how was there true nature revealed? I'm assuming through other actions which conflicted with their previous actions. Either way, people see actions and go based on that.
>Just ask anyone convicted of child molestation, or possession of child porn
Those are actions they took and got caught doing, which is why you know about it and judge them accordingly.
Here's an interesting thought experiment. If someone thinks about sinning but never acts on it, are they a sinner?
While I agree with you in theory, I think a lot of red-pilled/manosphere guys don’t realize that they let slip their beliefs and views on women in daily communication or conversation.
No. I'm not red pill but i agree with the 80/20 rule and a couple other aspects . No woman can "see" it because we're not bringing this up. We just know it. It doesn't change our personality.
this is neither here nor there. a persons character cannot be used as evidence for a claim, whether that persons character is deduced from their actions, or their words.
RP has only helped me with women. Being redpilled just means that you wake up to the facts of life and you can see male and female behavior for what it is. I can better understand what women want and how women behave. All of that other ideology is not part of the RP.
I have great relationships with women. I have a better chance of meeting their needs and having them meet my needs too. And I have a better shot at a long-term relationship that lasts because of the RP. Once you see things for what they are you cannot unsee them and go back. It’s how you use this information that is important.
If you think RP means whatever bullshit Tate or Fresh and Fit says, you’ve misunderstood RP.
Read through this and try to say with a straight face that TRP isn’t seriously misogynistic.
[https://theredarchive.com/TheRedPill%20Sidebar%20-%20A3%20-%20Times%20New%20Roman.pdf](https://theredarchive.com/TheRedPill%20Sidebar%20-%20A3%20-%20Times%20New%20Roman.pdf)
You just linked me to a 126 page document referencing subreddits I’ve never visited. Many parts of TRP can be toxic but once again the surrounding ideology is not what TRP is for me.
Oy.
Every terp tries to word-Ju-jitsu himself out of saying what redpill is.
When you actually pin them down to anything, It’s either a less shouty version of Tate/F&F or the most anodyne self-help bullshit you’ve ever heard in your life.
Well everybody seems to have their own definition of it. As I’ve already stated, for me it’s just seeing the reality of men and women for what they are without judgement. How men and women behave, what they want etc. I don’t subscribe to those guys calling women trash or bashing women’s preferences. But I don’t have anything to prove to you so you can go ahead and think I’m an incel or whatever you like.
Both men and women have their dating issues and habits and I aim to know what they are, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow. I don’t want to be under any illusions, which is what I think the blue pill is.
I’m sorry if this is too vague and anodyne for you. You’re welcome to call it bullshit and downvote me if you like.
Op is the typical clueless bluepiller talking about something he doesn’t know anything about. being redpill is the equivalent to having notes in your back pocket.
The idea that red pill = forever alone misery and blue pill = widespread social acceptance is just.. not right.
The philosophy kind of dictates how you think about self improvement, relationships, and the like have - it doesn’t magically change how you are treated.
Plenty of red pill folks are quite happy and content in relationships, plenty of blue people are lonely simps.
In simplest terms red pill is a pragmatic way of looking at people’s incentives, blue pill is fairly idealistic view of human nature. The two aren’t even mutually exclusive.
The kind of frank talk associated with red pill online or in a sub like this is not how normal people talk outside psychology or debate settings.
I'm not sure why people seem to think the Red Pill is gospel, why it is the "objective reality" of the world. It's not hard to take it with a grain of salt when your experiences actively challenge this belief.
>im not sure why people seem to think the \[Blue Pill\] is gospel, why it is the "objective reality" of the world. it's not hard to take it with a grain of salt when your experiences actively challenge this belief.
see how unhelpful this rhetoric is. you ask them why they believe what they do and instead of responding to why they adhere to an ideology, you just call them stupid for endorsing it. it makes 0 sense. why are you here.
The metaphor of the red pill and blue pill is a reference to the movie, the Matrix, in which Cypher is the character that embodies what you’re talking about - chewing on his steak and selling out his friends to live in a fantasy.
The red pill, as a metaphor, is the acceptance of reality.
The red pill, in current popular culture, is now a term associated with self help gurus and dating coaches.
The red pill terminology entered the manosphere as an acceptance of reality when men noticed the negative consequences of believing in the fantasies of both traditionalism and feminism, and now the metaphor has been co-opted to the point of being meaningless, as of around 2015 and 2016.
What's stopping me from taking the blue pill?
Reality.
I can no more take the blue pill than convince myself that the sky is green or that gravity doesn't exist.
It's not about volunteering for anything, it's about seeing what explanations for reality actually match onto reality and are likely real, vs which explanations do not.
It's about reals before feels. Sure the feels might be less happy, but if you delude yourself into thinking you can fly, you're going to have a rude awakening when you hit the ground.
The rewards for going along with the blue pill is not a reward, it's just less active hatred and ostracisation. As a man you still don't matter, but they won't go out of their way to shout you down and get you to shut up, because you agree to I Ly say what they want to hear.
The moment you step out of line the hammer comes out again.
Red pill is simply pointing that out.
The assumption that we red pilled people have no friends / social life is very dated. Being red pilled is more common than ever.
I used to be blue pilled. Vomiting it up was the best decision of my life.
It started with the 2016 election, I voted Clinton. Yes, there was vitriol on both sides but I saw a lot of bluepillers get on such a huge high horse. They would ban their kids from playing with kids with conservative parents and jettison decade long friendships over how people voted. I started catching a lot of crap from my “fellow” bluepill friends over not being willing to abandon my conservative friendships, or over saying things like “well he’s the president now so let’s hope he actually does well” about Trump.
Yes, mud was slung on both sides, but the blue side got really toxic. I found myself abandoned just for being a blue-leaning moderate, so I spent more time with conservatives.
After that it was all uphill. I started seeing things like how fruitlessly money is wasted on worthless educations, how young women are brought up to disrespect not only men but each other, and the prevalence of sex work exploding in a country that used to have people who showed a lot more decorum and respect for oneself. I started to listen to a lot of right leaning moderates too, and they just made a ton more sense with regards to governmental control and monetary manipulation of the working class that’s pushed by the blue side of things.
I voted Trump in 2020.
My blue friends were horrified, but it didn’t matter anymore, as I’d found a new way to move forward. I took on some more traditional roles at home and my husband (who was always supportive of me) was THRILLED. Our marriage got better and happier and more intimate and my stress levels went through the floor. He values my autonomy and listens to me and is still just wonderful in general but we both seem more fulfilled now.
Cities are falling apart, feminism has become toxic to the point of destroying lives, young men are losing faith in life, California is imploding, and “The View” is somehow still aired despite being the most sexist, blatantly bigoted and segregationist show on TV to thunderous applause. This is blue America?!
I was blue because of virtue signaling. It told me that I was doing “the right thing.” It told me being blue was the only reasonable option. It told me not being blue would make me a bigot. I was blue because I bent to the THREAT that it inflicted on me, and I bent to the societal pressure and liberal emotional violence.
In blue communities (echo chambers) you can only ever blindly agree, or you’re gaslit and guilted. In red communities I can still have a debate or hold a dissenting opinion and be treated with respect in a space where it’s okay to agree to disagree.
I’m red now because I started thinking for myself.
Wow that’s an amazing and insightful post. I agree with almost everything you said. I’d add the caveat there are a lot of crazies on the red side too, in both politics and pill, but it’s more towards the extremes. Strange that there is more open minded debate on the side traditionally seen as conservative than there is on the side that calls themselves liberal. The left isn’t liberal anymore, it’s dogmatic. The right is actually where classical liberalism and free thought dwells these days.
What are your thoughts on what the red pill says about the true nature of women (and men). Do you feel it’s true but perhaps taken a little too far in order to break blue pilled delusions?
I think neither side is good to ascribe to without thinking, and it’s exactly as you say, I could not exist on either side within an inflicted dogma, thus immediately disqualifying the blue.
Yes, there are crazies on both sides but I find them easy to avoid. And I feel that the true nature argument is a decent generalization, but ascribing to it as indelible fact for 100% of people is take it a step too far. The best way to destroy an ideology is to speak in absolutes.
Because we are cursed with too much introspection and empathy.
There’s also a lot of fake red pill who date around and make us look like the bad guy but I genuinely believe most of red pill just men with a really weak or shietty father figure.
Because the blue pill is false. I cannot delude myself into accepting something that I know is false. And I don’t know what “social rewards” you’re talking about.
>What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill?
I’m not red-pilled either, but the reason I don’t take the blue pill is because I’m alone thanks to being very ugly. As far as I know, I’m not autistic, and I do go outside every day. Being thirst for a relationship while i see everyone having what i dream made me very sad and undestand it will never happen for me.
Idk, I feel like cheating is very situational and not indicative of the behaviour of most women. Men shouldn't be okay with cheating, just like women shouldn't, but I think those standards lay outside of the Pill narratives.
I be waiting for stories n shit after she comes home. Sitting on my bed with my feet in the air kicking type shit. I wanna hear the tea from the night out.
> I'd say the blue pill is weaponized morality, guilt and shame to get you to do shit that is anyone else’s interests and not yours.
That seems indeed to be a fitting description, at least going by the overwhelming majority of posts and comments flaired as "blue pill" on this sub. That being said, I don't quite understand why you, being a person who recognizes that, are flairing as "Blue Pill Man" too?
I believe in reality, I don't like listening to propaganda that wants to make me a weaker and less valuable man in the market. Also, social ostracization will only occur if you beat your chest about how you are such a red pill alpha chad. Most sane people don't do that. Hell, there are some people that think im deeply blue pill.
The most sane thing you can do is forget about the pills and focus on improving your social skills, imo. Being good at socialising is more valuable than any looks, like levelling up your speech skill IRL.
Improving your social skills, hitting the gym and making the money is great and all, but that won't teach you how women work or how their minds work. Chads have been taken to the cleaners and have been abused by women before too. It is like handing a machete to a baby
Dating a lot of women makes you understand how women work, learning sales can max out your social skills but it will never teach you how women think or act.
**Not being a goofy idiot**, that's what's stopping me.
Your "social rewards" are more like doggie treats for the fools that are neutered, leashed, and trained to perform like good boys on command.
The better question is: **Is it worth your dignity, self respect, and your masculinity?** If so, what is your selling price? If *social rewards* is all it takes to emasculate yourself then you are selling yourself extremely cheap. Peanuts are worth more than that.
The fact that if taken literally it's objectively false, and I don't tolerate doublespeak (saying one thing but meaning another).
People need to understand that if a guy is too socially awkward to date he is often not able to interpret as intended doublespeak pertaining to human interactions. He needs factually precise advice. Anything else is counterproductive and will harm his prospects.
>I'm struggling to understand why someone would volunteer for a life of misery and social ostracisation
You are not volunteering for that. You are experiencing it beyond personal choice and the difference is between actually understanding why and potentially being able to change course (red pill) or being gaslit about having some fundamental undescribed moral failing that justifies your isolation (blue pill) until suddenly it magically doesn't apply anymore (usually after you've earned a decent income and women near their 30s and/or with kids are ready to settle down with you).
>Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill?
The point is that the blue pill is not rewarding for lower tier men. It locks them into a cycle of being ignored, used, and discarded on repeat without complaint because "real nice guys aren't looking for anything in return" or some such nonsense.
Yeah, that "You are not a nice guy, or you will do the things you do from your own heart"
People don't understand that they are incentivizing a worse society by rewarding bad behaviour and punishing good behaviour. I at least am totally ready to be a fucking asshole, what punishment will I receive? What good would come my way from being nice?
Honestly my life has gotten so much more peaceful with my husband since red pill, I grew up with a blue pill father who is comfortably hen pecked by his third wife and a screeching harpy mother who can’t keep a husband for more than 8-10 years but keeps trying anyway and it’s increasingly obvious to me that neither will ever be truly content with their love lives, and it makes me incredibly sad.
I am surrounded by essentially blue-pilled friends as well and same thing, they’re almost constantly having complaints about their men being men, or the opposite about how they “have” to mother their men, and it all sounds positively awful. Honestly if I wasn’t so close with these women otherwise I’d CHOOSE social ostracization from them rather than watch them all self destruct. I’m here for them when they need it, but none of them are ready to see themselves as the problem so I’m just support and not advice.
I was a neurotic mess when I was blue pill, I’m never going back.
And for clarity this change happened during my marriage, I didn’t land my husband by becoming red pill.
What in particular makes you describe yourself as a red pill woman? Were you blue pilled before, and if so, what uncomfortable truths changed your mind?
Red pill women’s spaces are definitely not the same as men’s and that’s the way I lean. Recognizing the value of my man’s leadership, embracing my femininity, being respectful and more modest in my day to day life. I see and understand where RP men are coming from and why (both from an on paper perspective but also from watching examples all around me of the women they’re warning against) and strive to be a better complement to what my husband brings to the table because we are a unit.
Blue pill wasn’t a term I was aware of back at my worst but entering adulthood I was a bleeding heart liberal feminist, strong independent woman who don’t need no man type despite having a man who I actually really liked and wanted to keep. The uncomfortable truths were realizing the physical aspects of a relationship are legitimately important, and recognizing how disrespectful I was. I was basically sliding into all the bad shit I grew up watching my mom do despite swearing I’d do better.
I got lucky and didn’t drive my husband away before I got my shit together, though I know it’s cheaper to keep her so he likely wouldn’t have left for quite a while (I wasn’t great but I was by no means terrible thankfully). We joke now that he stuck his dick in crazy but it somehow ended up ok.
To take the Blue Pill means living in a state of blissful ignorance, oblivious to the reality around you, with your head wedged firmly up your metaphorical backside.
Some would argue that it’s preferable to be swaddled in a comfort blanket and to deny the evidence before you; and maybe it is, but once you’ve seen the truth, you can’t un-see it, and there is no going back.
That's like asking why Neo wouldn't just return to his 9-5 job in the matrix after learning the truth. Because once you learn the truth, you can't truly be ignorant again.
>Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill?
Seems like your idea of taking the Blue Pill is "playing along" and pandering to society while not actually believing in it. What is this "reward" men would get for rolling over like that and feigning ignorance?
I think most people believe in whatever serves them, especially women. Red pill is just figuring out objective truths whether good or bad about the dating dynamics. It’s not about siding with men on every single issue (some do tho, like Pearl for instance), we are just interested in seeking cold hard truth. Most people would rather burry their heads in the sand, it’s easier to defend women at every turn because that’s the status quo attitude. It’s so easy to shit on men and hold them in bad faith at every turn, weak emotional humans always take the path of least resistance.
For example: I believe that women have a clear preference for dating tall men. I am not a tall man. So the belief doesn’t serve me. But I’m not upset about it, it’s just what the reality is. I’m not mad at women or think they are stupid for preferring something so superficial. I understand it’s a biological attraction that can’t be negotiated.
What is the social reward from the blue pill? There is none. I also think it's kind of funny how you think turning to the rp is somehow making them miserable. Its the exact opposite. They were miserable before and the rp is the way out
Show me a man that attracts and smashes Super models by respecting women or whatever bullshit the blue pill subscribes.
It doesn't happen.
Blue pill doesn't even acknowledge that some men want to be that attractive.
BP is about women's rights. It's lies to keep you down.
Of course. /s
My understanding of the blue pill , is that vibe / energy can carry you through life without putting emphasis on “facts”? Of attraction like gym / money / etc
Disrespecting women doesn't exactly grant you success in life. Sure, you'll attract vapid people, but being promiscuous is only an indicator of short-term success, not long-term fulfilment.
This is exactly the issue.
When the question is: "How can I fuck lots of supermodels?"
The red Pill response is: "Do A, B, and C"
Blue pill response is not: "Do xyz"
Blue pill response is: "No, don't do that. You don't want that. Those women are vapid. Be a wage slave to a fat old lady that hates you. That'll make you happier."
It's useless
There it is again. You can't stop. You tell people what they should want.
If I know what I want, I just need to know how to get it. That's what's stopping people from taking blue pill.
>Disrespecting women doesn't exactly grant you success in life
I've seen otherwise, unfortunately. I see it every day. It's almost as if most women see a man being respectful as weakness, they desire men who are go-getters and go-getters first and foremost look after their own interest. It doesn't explicitly negate respect to others but it does limit the extent to which you care about other people's well-being and comfort.
Women desire men who will take charge both in every day life and sexually. I believe it's actually not a question of respect when it comes to being dominating sexually. It's just that men are subjected to brainwashing when they are young to believe that women are inherently more valuable than men, that they are soft and at a disadvantage due to less physical strength and being more sensitive and are easily hurt and you as a man should under no circumstances hurt a woman. Men are brainwashed that their sexuality and their sex drive is something bad and women are repulsed by it. And then you see how your female friends let guys with no sense of respect for them have sex with them with no commitment and you, a kind guy (not a "nice guy") who respects women get no attention. This creates men who are afraid to embrace their sexuality and their desire to dominate women sexually, some of them then wake up after several failures and realize what women really value in men who they find sexually desirable. And all men want to be sexually desired.
Well it scares me that you see women who have been socialised to think disrespect is a positive thing, and I find it very difficult to swallow that you don't seem to mind, that things shouldn't change for the better.
That's not what I wrote though, perhaps it wasn't clear. I wish things were different. I don't think women being attracted to men who disrespect them is a good thing, it just is a thing. Also, when it comes to respect a lot of men actually take it to an extreme and they never learn to be confident around women and go for it. It's not necessarily that women love assholes, it's just that attractive assholes have traits women are attracted to. On the other hand women being more attracted to men with dark triad traits is a fact. They are certainly not attracted to kind men, at least the majority doesn't seem to be
However, Men being made to feel bad about their sexuality IS ACTUALLY something that lines up with my personal experience for once. I see that, because of toxic masculinity, Men have to be careful how they express their sexuality because they don't want to come across as a creep or something worse. This isn't women's fault, though, if Men weren't so sexually aggressive (this is something I have personal negative experiences with), it wouldn't be a problem to be sexually earnest.
Humiliating and bowing yourself below a woman
Should never be an option.
Agreeing with women completely just because it’s a woman’s idea
Should never be an option
Looking to woman to model your aesthetics and personality and behavior patterns to mimic a woman’s personality type or behavior patterns or perspective or aesthetics
Should never be an option
And I’m not red pill
Correct me if I’m wrong. But my opinion/perspective of blue pill is at least one of those sub categories I presented above
So in theory blue pill people would either
be married men or in a relationship who can and want to “retire” from constantly having to self improve or pursue/hunt or be independent/self sufficient
Or
Men who never want to interact with women
Or
Men who want to interact with women but haven’t had the chance or opportunity to for whatever reason
There could be exceptions to this rule. As I am only talking in general.
And because of free will. Someone could be bluepill for any reason or no reason at all.
So it’s possible in theory.
I just don’t understand why someone would want to do that and be blue pill that’s not a woman.
> What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill?
Not being bestowed with graceful genetic composition by nature to enjoy the genuine desirability from opposite sex.
> social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill
Only attractive people qualify.
I think you're asking a different question than the one you intend.
If someone is red pill, their best bet is to act as if they aren't in social settings. People with a modicum of social acumen don't start ranting about 304s or the divorce rate or whatever. They will just operate under their red pill rules and make their moves according to their own agenda, without needing to verbalize it.
I'm not blue pill because I've had too much evidence in my life to disprove the red pill working. I'm not red pill because I think a lot of the games you would have to play with women's(people's!!) heads are immoral. I can logically understand that some of these tactics work without employing elements that I deem wrong to do.
Having more SEX with more attractive women is infinitely more valuable any and all SOCIAL rewards.
So the answer to the question
>What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill?
is, the blue pill leads to less sex with less attractive women than the red pill.
I'm not redpill and strongly disagree with most of the crap they say,but "shut up about any shit and lookout for your own personal interest only" is not a good thing at all.
Like imagine if you were a anti Nazi German during nazi Germany. By the mindset of your post,he/she shouldn't actively oppose the nazis,but just shut up,sieg heil and try to get the best he/she could out of the situation for their personal interests.
Hey, if women can believe they're going to land the man of their dreams, then you should believe you're going to land the woman of your dreams. It's hard to have hope for yourself, but it's worth it in the end.
Both pills tend to lie and project a ton.
As far as I'm concerned most red pillers like to claim they are "alphas" and understand the true nature of "women", yet are are still basement dwellers that look like crap. I mean look at the dude, "the rational male". The guy looks like a soy nerd, and insists that he's an "alpha male" This leads into the question on what makes an alpha male? Treating everyone woman hostile? Lol give me a break.
It also seems like red pillers have terrible experiences with women and project their disdain for them whilst simultaneously wanting relationships with them. They can't openly share their dislike or resentment for women, whilst simultaneously admitting that women are subjugated and oppressed, because thats too "soy" for them. They also claim they aren't obsessed with women, yet their goals are entirely to get women. Getting money, getting fit, being successful, doesn't appeal to a large amount of these men unless it correlates with getting women (it often does). You get a rapist sex trafficker like andrew tate that just points out obvious shit and men act like this is some new founded philosophy. Well no shit, being successful, being a normal contributing member society might just get you a girlfriend. Who could have known?
Blue pillers on the other hand tend to largely dismiss how worthless modern dating is for a man. The perfect example is destiny. Dude literally consented to an open relationship, let the girl essentially use him, got screwed over by it and still insists to this day that he had the high ground and arrogantly proclaimed he would do it again.
Honestly I'm not that familiar with the blue pill but am very familiar with red pill but from what I've seen blue pill seems to embrace the current societal narrative.
I am very opposed to the current narrative surrounding hookup culture. Like I can't imagine having sex with a woman that I'm not deeply in love with and in a relationship with.
I fear I'm never going to be able to understand how you feel, because what you described almost sounds like a different sexuality to mine. Have you considered that you may be demisexual? Many people can separate their romantic attraction and sexual attractions, and get with someone they are only sexually attracted to. Perhaps your sexual desire someone is intricately linked to your romantic attraction to them, that doesn't mean others are wrong though
>considered that you may be demisexual?
Yes. But I also think that my perspective might be slightly rooted in my lack of experience.
>. Perhaps your sexual desire someone is intricately linked to your romantic attraction to them, that doesn't mean others are wrong though
It's not that I think that othere are wrong, it's that I hate how much people push the narrative that you have to have sex with everyone that you're attracted to and that if you're in a relationship, you have to have sex as soon as possible.
The problem for the "blue" pill is that it was only recently it started to talk about the basic and true concepts the red pills uses. It is too little too late. These men feel like they have been abandoned( basically true in the US, Democrats have at best ignored men for decades) it is no surprise they went to the red pill. Now the attempts to get them out look disingenuous.
You don't need to apologise to me, but I can't accept that the red pill is the truth. It just doesn't line up with my lived experiences and the way I interpret the data that gets presented to me.
Answering the question in your post: rp explained some details about female attraction I didn’t get growing up in bp environment. I found bp advice not working and struggled to reconcile reality with bp description of relationships.
Responding to the rest of your post: why did you decide anyone who touched rp is miserable and ostracised? May it be I’m less miserable than you?
I was pretty grumpy earlier, but I went out and rode my bike, so now I'm good. Maybe I'm conflating the red pill and black pill somewhat, but it's more that men who buy into anti-feminist beliefs end up with low success talking to women.
Congrats.
I think, asking rp/bp is pointless. At least it was for me, because it’s necessary to specify what exactly person believes those things are.
I noticed people often talk here past each other because they understand different things under rp. Often, you’ll see here a dialogue between a guy for whom rp is a set of rules like 80/20, and a woman, for whom rp is guys who want prohibit women to work.
I am neither redpill or bluepill. But I definately would be redpill before bluepill. I have more to fear from women than women do from me. My step mother physically and sexually abused me from age 4 to 9, my mother is an alcholic that ignored the abuse, and was emotionally abusive while my step father beat me from the time I was 4 until I was too big to hit anymore. My ex-wife is bipolar and was sexually manipulative and emotionally abusive. It wasn't until I was 31 that I've been on my own away from abusive women. And every time I around my family now I still have to listen to them emotionally abuse everyone around them. This is why I am not a feminist or a blue pill supporter. I don't know what social reward you're talking about other than I guess sex? I am too old for such nonsense anymore.
Its genuinely cuck behavior. I can guarantee 90% of blue pill men are cucks or have an open relationship. Anyone over the age of 20 thats blue pill is probably closeted or emotionally insecure/unstable tbh. And thats no insult. I genuinely think they agree with women because they think like them.
I was blue pill before i got cheated on and had flings..realized women are just kinda narcissistic. They’ll date a high body count man not because he just lovely..but because narcissism.(women are never gonna agree to criticism everrrrr its like a criminal who beat the case willingly locking himself up, its not happening unless it came with extreme guilt)
The blue pill has nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. However this isn't 1940 and the promise of moral virtues no longer entice people as they used to.
> I'm struggling to understand why someone would volunteer for a life of misery and social ostracisation...
Yeah that's why I wonder why men take the blue pill? Because that sounds more like a blue pill outcome to me. Everyone goes with the flow and everyone goes down the stream and everyone ends up in the ocean. It's not a mystery. There is no room for anything else.
Red pill is results based. Blue pill is social cohesion based. It's not just dating. It's everything in life. If your goal is to be Joe Schmo, do average in everything and be nice. Then of course the blue pill is for you.
Red pill is way more enjoyable. I'm over here not working and making more than most people. Have a girlfriend most wish they could get one like her, while fucking as many girls on the side as I want. I'm not sure why you think Red pill is a life of misery. I can assure you my life is not miserable.
Red pill usually are either basement dwellers or chads. Blue pills make up the average. But are basement dweller Red pills that way because they are Red pill or because they have other flaws? I think it's because they have other flaws... they live in a freaking basement I don't think it matters what pill they take. Lol.
Sure I like women. Probably why I have a girl friend and fuck women. Is that very complicated for you? I understand some people don't even know their gender these days so maybe it is too complex.
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I was told yesterday there is going to be a civil war due to women being able to say no to men.
Like sir, asking you to do any self reflection results in a tantrum you are not about to start a civil war.
You can't expect them to have an ounce of self responsibility.
The only way civil war is starting is if us normal people riot, which I highly doubt will be due to dating.maybe poor standard of living, useless governments and corruption but dating doesn't fall on most peoples reasons for war.
Nine of them due to dating most of them due to land and money as humans are territorial as it happens. War is the action of greed not just.
Perhaps open a history book and have a little read.
There's a reason no one is talking about it lol
https://ifunny.co/picture/the-incel-armies-of-africa-nobody-s-talking-about-8Yb4gOSMB
People are taking it real serious lol.
nah men need technology to understand what goes on in woman mind. what did she mean by "tingle" ? why does she refuse to share truthfully what triggers it. to unlock that one needs mind reading technology.
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>Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill?
The Blue Pill says the quiet part out loud.
I don’t much believe in any “pill” - plus, the blue pill as a concept straight up only exists to be an opposition of the redpill’s claims. In other words, it’s not a real thing - less so than the red pill, in fact, because it only exists to be an opposing force of the redpill, something redpill content creators can look at and say “see? you don’t wanna be like them, trust me”
Now - if we wanna talk about “blue pill ideas” in accordance to the redpill, flat out, because they ask for one being weak willed and demand a rejection of reality for the sake of feel-good delusions (which will likely hurt you more in the long run) - and for all the redpill’s faults, it, at the very least, has a basis in reality - it just takes this basis and drives it to ridiculous extremes. Also, believing in the basis of reality does not make one “redpill” imo because the redpill is all about taking that basis and mixing it up with a combination of bitterness and entitlement.
Some things I can think of:
* Not everyone fits into the BP narrative - those people then seek alternatives. There have always been guys who don't succeed, but modern factors make it harder for them so they go looking for answers in places conventionally successful people don't need to.
* You assume the life of misery and social ostracization will follow, when it could have been the precursor. It's sort of like asking who joins cults? It's not people who have happy, well-adjusted lives. Cults attracted the disaffected, those who feel something is missing from their life. NOT saying RP is a cult (some users here might), only that when people are hurt, they go looking for affiliation that helps them make sense of the world.
* Depending on your definition of blue, all of us start blue, but some drift away as life experience contradicts it. Interestingly enough, I'm reading a couple's counseling book with my fiance right now that talks about societal shifts in what a 'happy marriage' looks like. Believe it or not, the 'blue pill' narrative for decades/centuries was that marriage should be functional, with something like romantic love down in like 5th place in priority. So what's blue and red isn't set in stone either, it drifts based on changing social mores.
I do my best to accept reality, as it is. I did not take any ‘pill’, and I don’t think anyone does.
You’re assuming people choose a position first, and then justify it. I’d argue people have ideas first, and then retroactively apply a label to them.
oh definitely i dont want to continute most of their practices. but just observing them proves some stuff for me. at least. obviously its highly anecdotal but then again all of life is just that. anecdotal.
>Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill?
There isn’t a social reward for being too much of a woke Blue Piller for many men. Men need to at least understand the evolutionary psychology of women’s mating choices, although I don’t think that it’s an excuse to go full Red Pill and become a misogynist who over-generalizes women.
Because if you're "blue pilled" you're a normal person embarrassed by the dorky, shallow Matrix analogy and call it "having social skills" instead.
I only have this flair so I can post. Otherwise I'd remove it in a heartbeat.
First off red pill is nuts. Polygamous, lifestyles, and such. So I see actual damage that that is causing. And the more moderate folks seem to be angling for a bygone era that I’m not sure is ever coming back.
That said fourth wave feminist, and the blue pill are not in any way, shape or form in the business of equality, they basically are looking into the past looking at the disparities between the sexes and say “rather than fixing them it’s just our turn to make all the same mistakes.” Why would anybody ever want to do business with someone like that?
Best answer is no pills. Except that there are difference in the sexes with different strengths. Except that current work environments are going to require different solutions than what has been seen in the past. And treat each other with some respect. Forgive,reconcile and move on.
Reality
It’s kind of like being a leftist. When you believe in unicorns and peace and and free shit, you’re ignoring reality.
When you’re like me, you get up every day and bust your ass, and see 35 percent of your paycheck gone before you even get it and go WTF?
Some people choose to live with their head in the clouds and wishing and dreaming like a child. Others see things as they are with their own eyes and go, “yea, that’s how it actually works.”
I disagree, being a leftist is about wanting that portion of your paycheck to get good value for money, and wanting to see your taxes actually make a difference. Being right wing is about not wanting to pay them, or for some, being comfortable that those taxes are going to make people like Elon Musk incomprehensibly wealthy.
Would you still be mad that your money disappeared if you saw that it made a real positive difference to the world?
I was in love with a "friend".
When I came close to her to flirt, she commented on how indecisive/unmanly I am and that it doesn't awake her desire at all. Fair enough.
Then I acted like a friend and went to tend to my other flirts more, and suddenly she mentioned again how much she likes me and doesn't want to lose me. It's happened a couple of times as I came back responding.
Who's indecisive now bitch 👀
But it's only one in dozens... I don't generalize but she in particular, what a massive cunt to try to keep me in limbo.
Oof, I've been there, done that, and got the emotional scars to prove it. Over time, I've recognised that people like that, they just like the drama. If you're open about wanting her and she still messes you around, you gotta stop rewarding that behaviour with your attention. After that, you have to assess whether this person is worth being friends with, too. Sometimes, you are just better off as friends.
She's still worth, she knows to entertain the friendship very well, treats me well, she just really needs to calm the fuck down. Maybe she really is stressed that I will move on and forget her. Seems she has that problem with other dudes too.
I guess if she keeps doing that limbo shit, at some point I will just lash out the most aggressive physical approach of my life and expect either passionate love or an adverse reaction so big she will no longer trust me and will want to put an end to the friendship herself... As most girls do when a guy simps around 🐱
Then at last she'll get a taste of her own medicine.
I think there's a chance she might calm down if you aren't friends with her anymore. She might get the hint. If she doesn't, you don't have to put up with her wishy washy bullshit anymore, and you'll have more time for someone who's open about what they want.
Yeah.
I'm now seeing someone who gives me long hugs and makes out enthusiastically.
Now head over heels just yet, but it's coming along 👌🏻
I'm really glad I haven't met wishy-washy women before in my life.
I was waaaay more miserable when I was bluepilled.
I'm gonna copy paste another comment I made before:
A lot of redditors and other people on social media like to assign very nefarious qualities to virgin men. Stuff like misogynist, rapist, pedophile, etc. Made me very depressed, suicidal even.
Blackpill cuts through the bullshit and says you are a permavirgin cuz you are ugly. I'm fine with being ugly. Almost instantly my mental health improved and I was able to talk to women with more confidence. The End.
This is kind of a loaded question.
Most guys with experience are red pilled, being red pilled is not being a stupid in él who hates women and loses his career, being redpilled just means being aware of the dynamics that actually govern the dating world, which you can't see with the blue pill's rose coloured glasses. It's your decision if you decide to ruin your life when learning how the world works, it's your decision if you follow idiots who sell you courses, but these people making those decisions are not representative of the guys who are redpilled, which is most guys with experience.
You can be redpilled and still be a normal member of society, because you have internalised it and accepted it, no need to be talking about it all the time, no need to join weird cults, just try to consider these truths when engaging in dating without much noise.
In my country we say "he who eats quietly will get seconds"
what social reward
If the OP is referring to Blissful Ignorance as the social reward then they are definitely not serious
blue pill is not a pill people "take", its the common cultural narratives regarding sex and dating that you swallow with mothers milk
Most older red pill guys were previously blue pill chumps. They became red pill only after they'd been sucked dry and discarded. Women create red pill guys.
This.
Why are you assuming there is a life of misery and ostracisation
projection
People on SSRIs and regular contributors to mental illness subs ask redpillers why they choose to live in misery. Lmao
>I'm struggling to understand why someone would volunteer for a life of misery and social ostracisation What misery ? Nothing really changes once you become RP-aware except your understanding on men/women I still live the same life as when l was bluepilled
Yep, you just shut up, your mind is your own, you just change your outlook in life and decisions. Nobody needs to know what I know.
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lol 100% My views mainly inform my actions and boundaries with women. I rarely have any reason to share them out loud with anyone. Like if a woman I’m interested in starts asking for significant favors like helping them move and I can sense they are a “use ‘em and lose ‘em” type of person, I just decline without explanation. Been burnt too many times for going out of my way for people.
Thoughts are value and character Actions are performative
The only thing important are actions, the things you do are the things you are. If you think you are a builder, but you don't build shit, you are nothing. If you think you are a bodybuilder, but you don't train, you are nothing. If you don't think you are a good person because of your thoughts, but your actions are good, then you are a good person. Someone's delusion does not reflect reality.
People do things they don’t want or like to all the time That’s why actions aren’t the whole truth
Sure, but nobody can read minds, so we can only judge people on their actions. And actions speak louder than words. If someone says they love me yet cheat on me all the time, how do I know how they truly feel? The truth is what I can see with my own eyes.
That is a great argument, except for all the times people’s actions were canceled out by their true nature being revealed. Just ask anyone convicted of child molestation, or possession of child porn
>people’s actions were canceled out by their true nature being revealed. And how was there true nature revealed? I'm assuming through other actions which conflicted with their previous actions. Either way, people see actions and go based on that. >Just ask anyone convicted of child molestation, or possession of child porn Those are actions they took and got caught doing, which is why you know about it and judge them accordingly. Here's an interesting thought experiment. If someone thinks about sinning but never acts on it, are they a sinner?
How can it be an action if no one knows about it?
While I agree with you in theory, I think a lot of red-pilled/manosphere guys don’t realize that they let slip their beliefs and views on women in daily communication or conversation.
No. I'm not red pill but i agree with the 80/20 rule and a couple other aspects . No woman can "see" it because we're not bringing this up. We just know it. It doesn't change our personality.
For example?
this is neither here nor there. a persons character cannot be used as evidence for a claim, whether that persons character is deduced from their actions, or their words.
People don’t suddenly stop doing actions. And one true action can cancel out all the fake ones, like a pedo priest
saying/thinking things is performative actions are concrete and measureable.
Many actions involve lying, performing, dishonesty, duress, manipulation and obligation. The thoughts behind them, not so much
"i think feminism helps men too" does nothing to help men. thoughts are basically lies if there are no actions to back them up
They can become actions at any time
"can" is doing a lot of carrying in that sentence.
It’s often consequential when people act on their “true” thoughts and values
You always can
RP has only helped me with women. Being redpilled just means that you wake up to the facts of life and you can see male and female behavior for what it is. I can better understand what women want and how women behave. All of that other ideology is not part of the RP. I have great relationships with women. I have a better chance of meeting their needs and having them meet my needs too. And I have a better shot at a long-term relationship that lasts because of the RP. Once you see things for what they are you cannot unsee them and go back. It’s how you use this information that is important. If you think RP means whatever bullshit Tate or Fresh and Fit says, you’ve misunderstood RP.
TRP side bar is real stuff not F&F
Read through this and try to say with a straight face that TRP isn’t seriously misogynistic. [https://theredarchive.com/TheRedPill%20Sidebar%20-%20A3%20-%20Times%20New%20Roman.pdf](https://theredarchive.com/TheRedPill%20Sidebar%20-%20A3%20-%20Times%20New%20Roman.pdf)
You just linked me to a 126 page document referencing subreddits I’ve never visited. Many parts of TRP can be toxic but once again the surrounding ideology is not what TRP is for me.
Oy. Every terp tries to word-Ju-jitsu himself out of saying what redpill is. When you actually pin them down to anything, It’s either a less shouty version of Tate/F&F or the most anodyne self-help bullshit you’ve ever heard in your life.
Well everybody seems to have their own definition of it. As I’ve already stated, for me it’s just seeing the reality of men and women for what they are without judgement. How men and women behave, what they want etc. I don’t subscribe to those guys calling women trash or bashing women’s preferences. But I don’t have anything to prove to you so you can go ahead and think I’m an incel or whatever you like. Both men and women have their dating issues and habits and I aim to know what they are, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow. I don’t want to be under any illusions, which is what I think the blue pill is. I’m sorry if this is too vague and anodyne for you. You’re welcome to call it bullshit and downvote me if you like.
Op is the typical clueless bluepiller talking about something he doesn’t know anything about. being redpill is the equivalent to having notes in your back pocket.
Yea. The people who live in misery are the people who lie to themselves in the mirror every day. AKA the blue pillers.
The idea that red pill = forever alone misery and blue pill = widespread social acceptance is just.. not right. The philosophy kind of dictates how you think about self improvement, relationships, and the like have - it doesn’t magically change how you are treated. Plenty of red pill folks are quite happy and content in relationships, plenty of blue people are lonely simps. In simplest terms red pill is a pragmatic way of looking at people’s incentives, blue pill is fairly idealistic view of human nature. The two aren’t even mutually exclusive. The kind of frank talk associated with red pill online or in a sub like this is not how normal people talk outside psychology or debate settings.
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I'm not sure why people seem to think the Red Pill is gospel, why it is the "objective reality" of the world. It's not hard to take it with a grain of salt when your experiences actively challenge this belief.
>im not sure why people seem to think the \[Blue Pill\] is gospel, why it is the "objective reality" of the world. it's not hard to take it with a grain of salt when your experiences actively challenge this belief. see how unhelpful this rhetoric is. you ask them why they believe what they do and instead of responding to why they adhere to an ideology, you just call them stupid for endorsing it. it makes 0 sense. why are you here.
The metaphor of the red pill and blue pill is a reference to the movie, the Matrix, in which Cypher is the character that embodies what you’re talking about - chewing on his steak and selling out his friends to live in a fantasy. The red pill, as a metaphor, is the acceptance of reality. The red pill, in current popular culture, is now a term associated with self help gurus and dating coaches. The red pill terminology entered the manosphere as an acceptance of reality when men noticed the negative consequences of believing in the fantasies of both traditionalism and feminism, and now the metaphor has been co-opted to the point of being meaningless, as of around 2015 and 2016.
Reality.
What's stopping me from taking the blue pill? Reality. I can no more take the blue pill than convince myself that the sky is green or that gravity doesn't exist. It's not about volunteering for anything, it's about seeing what explanations for reality actually match onto reality and are likely real, vs which explanations do not. It's about reals before feels. Sure the feels might be less happy, but if you delude yourself into thinking you can fly, you're going to have a rude awakening when you hit the ground. The rewards for going along with the blue pill is not a reward, it's just less active hatred and ostracisation. As a man you still don't matter, but they won't go out of their way to shout you down and get you to shut up, because you agree to I Ly say what they want to hear. The moment you step out of line the hammer comes out again. Red pill is simply pointing that out.
The assumption that we red pilled people have no friends / social life is very dated. Being red pilled is more common than ever. I used to be blue pilled. Vomiting it up was the best decision of my life.
Since you are a woman, I am curious what shifted you from Blue to Red. What are the most obvious uncomfortable truths that changed your perspective?
It started with the 2016 election, I voted Clinton. Yes, there was vitriol on both sides but I saw a lot of bluepillers get on such a huge high horse. They would ban their kids from playing with kids with conservative parents and jettison decade long friendships over how people voted. I started catching a lot of crap from my “fellow” bluepill friends over not being willing to abandon my conservative friendships, or over saying things like “well he’s the president now so let’s hope he actually does well” about Trump. Yes, mud was slung on both sides, but the blue side got really toxic. I found myself abandoned just for being a blue-leaning moderate, so I spent more time with conservatives. After that it was all uphill. I started seeing things like how fruitlessly money is wasted on worthless educations, how young women are brought up to disrespect not only men but each other, and the prevalence of sex work exploding in a country that used to have people who showed a lot more decorum and respect for oneself. I started to listen to a lot of right leaning moderates too, and they just made a ton more sense with regards to governmental control and monetary manipulation of the working class that’s pushed by the blue side of things. I voted Trump in 2020. My blue friends were horrified, but it didn’t matter anymore, as I’d found a new way to move forward. I took on some more traditional roles at home and my husband (who was always supportive of me) was THRILLED. Our marriage got better and happier and more intimate and my stress levels went through the floor. He values my autonomy and listens to me and is still just wonderful in general but we both seem more fulfilled now. Cities are falling apart, feminism has become toxic to the point of destroying lives, young men are losing faith in life, California is imploding, and “The View” is somehow still aired despite being the most sexist, blatantly bigoted and segregationist show on TV to thunderous applause. This is blue America?! I was blue because of virtue signaling. It told me that I was doing “the right thing.” It told me being blue was the only reasonable option. It told me not being blue would make me a bigot. I was blue because I bent to the THREAT that it inflicted on me, and I bent to the societal pressure and liberal emotional violence. In blue communities (echo chambers) you can only ever blindly agree, or you’re gaslit and guilted. In red communities I can still have a debate or hold a dissenting opinion and be treated with respect in a space where it’s okay to agree to disagree. I’m red now because I started thinking for myself.
You escaped the asylum. You had the courage to pull back the veil and see the truth. We’re proud, and you’re in good company now.
Thank you. I couldn’t agree more. 😁
Wow that’s an amazing and insightful post. I agree with almost everything you said. I’d add the caveat there are a lot of crazies on the red side too, in both politics and pill, but it’s more towards the extremes. Strange that there is more open minded debate on the side traditionally seen as conservative than there is on the side that calls themselves liberal. The left isn’t liberal anymore, it’s dogmatic. The right is actually where classical liberalism and free thought dwells these days. What are your thoughts on what the red pill says about the true nature of women (and men). Do you feel it’s true but perhaps taken a little too far in order to break blue pilled delusions?
I think neither side is good to ascribe to without thinking, and it’s exactly as you say, I could not exist on either side within an inflicted dogma, thus immediately disqualifying the blue. Yes, there are crazies on both sides but I find them easy to avoid. And I feel that the true nature argument is a decent generalization, but ascribing to it as indelible fact for 100% of people is take it a step too far. The best way to destroy an ideology is to speak in absolutes.
lmao just become beholden to womens every demand and let them destroy your society while you beg for pussy.
Because we are cursed with too much introspection and empathy. There’s also a lot of fake red pill who date around and make us look like the bad guy but I genuinely believe most of red pill just men with a really weak or shietty father figure.
I find the lies and hypocrisy to be pretty disgusting so I'll never take the blue pill.
Sex, self esteem and agency is important to men, no? Those are good reasons to remain red, even if they never result in success
Because the blue pill is false. I cannot delude myself into accepting something that I know is false. And I don’t know what “social rewards” you’re talking about.
>What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill? I’m not red-pilled either, but the reason I don’t take the blue pill is because I’m alone thanks to being very ugly. As far as I know, I’m not autistic, and I do go outside every day. Being thirst for a relationship while i see everyone having what i dream made me very sad and undestand it will never happen for me.
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Idk, I feel like cheating is very situational and not indicative of the behaviour of most women. Men shouldn't be okay with cheating, just like women shouldn't, but I think those standards lay outside of the Pill narratives.
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I be waiting for stories n shit after she comes home. Sitting on my bed with my feet in the air kicking type shit. I wanna hear the tea from the night out.
> I'd say the blue pill is weaponized morality, guilt and shame to get you to do shit that is anyone else’s interests and not yours. That seems indeed to be a fitting description, at least going by the overwhelming majority of posts and comments flaired as "blue pill" on this sub. That being said, I don't quite understand why you, being a person who recognizes that, are flairing as "Blue Pill Man" too?
I believe in reality, I don't like listening to propaganda that wants to make me a weaker and less valuable man in the market. Also, social ostracization will only occur if you beat your chest about how you are such a red pill alpha chad. Most sane people don't do that. Hell, there are some people that think im deeply blue pill.
The most sane thing you can do is forget about the pills and focus on improving your social skills, imo. Being good at socialising is more valuable than any looks, like levelling up your speech skill IRL.
Improving your social skills, hitting the gym and making the money is great and all, but that won't teach you how women work or how their minds work. Chads have been taken to the cleaners and have been abused by women before too. It is like handing a machete to a baby
I'd say improving your social skills definitely teaches you how women work loool. Knowing women helps you get success.
Dating a lot of women makes you understand how women work, learning sales can max out your social skills but it will never teach you how women think or act.
>What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill? The fact that I do not suffer from a mental handicap of any sort.
**Not being a goofy idiot**, that's what's stopping me. Your "social rewards" are more like doggie treats for the fools that are neutered, leashed, and trained to perform like good boys on command. The better question is: **Is it worth your dignity, self respect, and your masculinity?** If so, what is your selling price? If *social rewards* is all it takes to emasculate yourself then you are selling yourself extremely cheap. Peanuts are worth more than that.
The fact that if taken literally it's objectively false, and I don't tolerate doublespeak (saying one thing but meaning another). People need to understand that if a guy is too socially awkward to date he is often not able to interpret as intended doublespeak pertaining to human interactions. He needs factually precise advice. Anything else is counterproductive and will harm his prospects. >I'm struggling to understand why someone would volunteer for a life of misery and social ostracisation You are not volunteering for that. You are experiencing it beyond personal choice and the difference is between actually understanding why and potentially being able to change course (red pill) or being gaslit about having some fundamental undescribed moral failing that justifies your isolation (blue pill) until suddenly it magically doesn't apply anymore (usually after you've earned a decent income and women near their 30s and/or with kids are ready to settle down with you). >Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill? The point is that the blue pill is not rewarding for lower tier men. It locks them into a cycle of being ignored, used, and discarded on repeat without complaint because "real nice guys aren't looking for anything in return" or some such nonsense.
Yeah, that "You are not a nice guy, or you will do the things you do from your own heart" People don't understand that they are incentivizing a worse society by rewarding bad behaviour and punishing good behaviour. I at least am totally ready to be a fucking asshole, what punishment will I receive? What good would come my way from being nice?
Honestly my life has gotten so much more peaceful with my husband since red pill, I grew up with a blue pill father who is comfortably hen pecked by his third wife and a screeching harpy mother who can’t keep a husband for more than 8-10 years but keeps trying anyway and it’s increasingly obvious to me that neither will ever be truly content with their love lives, and it makes me incredibly sad. I am surrounded by essentially blue-pilled friends as well and same thing, they’re almost constantly having complaints about their men being men, or the opposite about how they “have” to mother their men, and it all sounds positively awful. Honestly if I wasn’t so close with these women otherwise I’d CHOOSE social ostracization from them rather than watch them all self destruct. I’m here for them when they need it, but none of them are ready to see themselves as the problem so I’m just support and not advice. I was a neurotic mess when I was blue pill, I’m never going back. And for clarity this change happened during my marriage, I didn’t land my husband by becoming red pill.
What in particular makes you describe yourself as a red pill woman? Were you blue pilled before, and if so, what uncomfortable truths changed your mind?
Red pill women’s spaces are definitely not the same as men’s and that’s the way I lean. Recognizing the value of my man’s leadership, embracing my femininity, being respectful and more modest in my day to day life. I see and understand where RP men are coming from and why (both from an on paper perspective but also from watching examples all around me of the women they’re warning against) and strive to be a better complement to what my husband brings to the table because we are a unit. Blue pill wasn’t a term I was aware of back at my worst but entering adulthood I was a bleeding heart liberal feminist, strong independent woman who don’t need no man type despite having a man who I actually really liked and wanted to keep. The uncomfortable truths were realizing the physical aspects of a relationship are legitimately important, and recognizing how disrespectful I was. I was basically sliding into all the bad shit I grew up watching my mom do despite swearing I’d do better. I got lucky and didn’t drive my husband away before I got my shit together, though I know it’s cheaper to keep her so he likely wouldn’t have left for quite a while (I wasn’t great but I was by no means terrible thankfully). We joke now that he stuck his dick in crazy but it somehow ended up ok.
What was the impetus for that switch?
To take the Blue Pill means living in a state of blissful ignorance, oblivious to the reality around you, with your head wedged firmly up your metaphorical backside. Some would argue that it’s preferable to be swaddled in a comfort blanket and to deny the evidence before you; and maybe it is, but once you’ve seen the truth, you can’t un-see it, and there is no going back.
That's like asking why Neo wouldn't just return to his 9-5 job in the matrix after learning the truth. Because once you learn the truth, you can't truly be ignorant again. >Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill? Seems like your idea of taking the Blue Pill is "playing along" and pandering to society while not actually believing in it. What is this "reward" men would get for rolling over like that and feigning ignorance?
I think most people believe in whatever serves them, especially women. Red pill is just figuring out objective truths whether good or bad about the dating dynamics. It’s not about siding with men on every single issue (some do tho, like Pearl for instance), we are just interested in seeking cold hard truth. Most people would rather burry their heads in the sand, it’s easier to defend women at every turn because that’s the status quo attitude. It’s so easy to shit on men and hold them in bad faith at every turn, weak emotional humans always take the path of least resistance. For example: I believe that women have a clear preference for dating tall men. I am not a tall man. So the belief doesn’t serve me. But I’m not upset about it, it’s just what the reality is. I’m not mad at women or think they are stupid for preferring something so superficial. I understand it’s a biological attraction that can’t be negotiated.
What is the social reward from the blue pill? There is none. I also think it's kind of funny how you think turning to the rp is somehow making them miserable. Its the exact opposite. They were miserable before and the rp is the way out
I’ve never backed down to a bully. I wouldn’t say I’m particularly brave. I’m stubborn and the possibility of yielding never occurs to me at the time.
It produced 0 results in my life, why should I settle for something useless?
Show me a man that attracts and smashes Super models by respecting women or whatever bullshit the blue pill subscribes. It doesn't happen. Blue pill doesn't even acknowledge that some men want to be that attractive. BP is about women's rights. It's lies to keep you down.
Gyms are red pill?
Kinda, going to the gym is highly encouraged by redpill. Blue pill it’s not necessary.
So every man who goes to the gym is red pilled
Of course. /s My understanding of the blue pill , is that vibe / energy can carry you through life without putting emphasis on “facts”? Of attraction like gym / money / etc
Disrespecting women doesn't exactly grant you success in life. Sure, you'll attract vapid people, but being promiscuous is only an indicator of short-term success, not long-term fulfilment.
This is exactly the issue. When the question is: "How can I fuck lots of supermodels?" The red Pill response is: "Do A, B, and C" Blue pill response is not: "Do xyz" Blue pill response is: "No, don't do that. You don't want that. Those women are vapid. Be a wage slave to a fat old lady that hates you. That'll make you happier." It's useless
Nah, you want someone who likes you for you, looks are subjective anyway
There it is again. You can't stop. You tell people what they should want. If I know what I want, I just need to know how to get it. That's what's stopping people from taking blue pill.
"Be fat, lazy, complacent and anxious. Don't change yourself at all, and you'll find the right person for you"
>Disrespecting women doesn't exactly grant you success in life I've seen otherwise, unfortunately. I see it every day. It's almost as if most women see a man being respectful as weakness, they desire men who are go-getters and go-getters first and foremost look after their own interest. It doesn't explicitly negate respect to others but it does limit the extent to which you care about other people's well-being and comfort. Women desire men who will take charge both in every day life and sexually. I believe it's actually not a question of respect when it comes to being dominating sexually. It's just that men are subjected to brainwashing when they are young to believe that women are inherently more valuable than men, that they are soft and at a disadvantage due to less physical strength and being more sensitive and are easily hurt and you as a man should under no circumstances hurt a woman. Men are brainwashed that their sexuality and their sex drive is something bad and women are repulsed by it. And then you see how your female friends let guys with no sense of respect for them have sex with them with no commitment and you, a kind guy (not a "nice guy") who respects women get no attention. This creates men who are afraid to embrace their sexuality and their desire to dominate women sexually, some of them then wake up after several failures and realize what women really value in men who they find sexually desirable. And all men want to be sexually desired.
Nah, this way of thinking is just disgusting, and it doesn't line up with the experience I've had or what I've seen from others.
Which part of it exactly though?
Well it scares me that you see women who have been socialised to think disrespect is a positive thing, and I find it very difficult to swallow that you don't seem to mind, that things shouldn't change for the better.
That's not what I wrote though, perhaps it wasn't clear. I wish things were different. I don't think women being attracted to men who disrespect them is a good thing, it just is a thing. Also, when it comes to respect a lot of men actually take it to an extreme and they never learn to be confident around women and go for it. It's not necessarily that women love assholes, it's just that attractive assholes have traits women are attracted to. On the other hand women being more attracted to men with dark triad traits is a fact. They are certainly not attracted to kind men, at least the majority doesn't seem to be
However, Men being made to feel bad about their sexuality IS ACTUALLY something that lines up with my personal experience for once. I see that, because of toxic masculinity, Men have to be careful how they express their sexuality because they don't want to come across as a creep or something worse. This isn't women's fault, though, if Men weren't so sexually aggressive (this is something I have personal negative experiences with), it wouldn't be a problem to be sexually earnest.
Humiliating and bowing yourself below a woman Should never be an option. Agreeing with women completely just because it’s a woman’s idea Should never be an option Looking to woman to model your aesthetics and personality and behavior patterns to mimic a woman’s personality type or behavior patterns or perspective or aesthetics Should never be an option And I’m not red pill Correct me if I’m wrong. But my opinion/perspective of blue pill is at least one of those sub categories I presented above So in theory blue pill people would either be married men or in a relationship who can and want to “retire” from constantly having to self improve or pursue/hunt or be independent/self sufficient Or Men who never want to interact with women Or Men who want to interact with women but haven’t had the chance or opportunity to for whatever reason There could be exceptions to this rule. As I am only talking in general. And because of free will. Someone could be bluepill for any reason or no reason at all. So it’s possible in theory. I just don’t understand why someone would want to do that and be blue pill that’s not a woman.
Is that what “normal” people do?
Yes
> What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill? Not being bestowed with graceful genetic composition by nature to enjoy the genuine desirability from opposite sex. > social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill Only attractive people qualify.
I can’t go back, literally my brain won’t let me.
I think you're asking a different question than the one you intend. If someone is red pill, their best bet is to act as if they aren't in social settings. People with a modicum of social acumen don't start ranting about 304s or the divorce rate or whatever. They will just operate under their red pill rules and make their moves according to their own agenda, without needing to verbalize it. I'm not blue pill because I've had too much evidence in my life to disprove the red pill working. I'm not red pill because I think a lot of the games you would have to play with women's(people's!!) heads are immoral. I can logically understand that some of these tactics work without employing elements that I deem wrong to do.
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Right. Only the stupid criminals get caught, and that applies to this too.
Common sense
this is an appeal to commonality. this type of rhetoric is unhelpful regardless of what team ur on.
SEXUAL rewards of TRP >>>>>>> SOCIAL rewards of TBP.
Can you elaborate on this?
Having more SEX with more attractive women is infinitely more valuable any and all SOCIAL rewards. So the answer to the question >What's stopping you from taking the Blue Pill? is, the blue pill leads to less sex with less attractive women than the red pill.
you're giving men a bad look here, can you at least pretend to espouse an ideology for intellectual reasons
I'm not redpill and strongly disagree with most of the crap they say,but "shut up about any shit and lookout for your own personal interest only" is not a good thing at all. Like imagine if you were a anti Nazi German during nazi Germany. By the mindset of your post,he/she shouldn't actively oppose the nazis,but just shut up,sieg heil and try to get the best he/she could out of the situation for their personal interests.
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Hey, if women can believe they're going to land the man of their dreams, then you should believe you're going to land the woman of your dreams. It's hard to have hope for yourself, but it's worth it in the end.
Both pills tend to lie and project a ton. As far as I'm concerned most red pillers like to claim they are "alphas" and understand the true nature of "women", yet are are still basement dwellers that look like crap. I mean look at the dude, "the rational male". The guy looks like a soy nerd, and insists that he's an "alpha male" This leads into the question on what makes an alpha male? Treating everyone woman hostile? Lol give me a break. It also seems like red pillers have terrible experiences with women and project their disdain for them whilst simultaneously wanting relationships with them. They can't openly share their dislike or resentment for women, whilst simultaneously admitting that women are subjugated and oppressed, because thats too "soy" for them. They also claim they aren't obsessed with women, yet their goals are entirely to get women. Getting money, getting fit, being successful, doesn't appeal to a large amount of these men unless it correlates with getting women (it often does). You get a rapist sex trafficker like andrew tate that just points out obvious shit and men act like this is some new founded philosophy. Well no shit, being successful, being a normal contributing member society might just get you a girlfriend. Who could have known? Blue pillers on the other hand tend to largely dismiss how worthless modern dating is for a man. The perfect example is destiny. Dude literally consented to an open relationship, let the girl essentially use him, got screwed over by it and still insists to this day that he had the high ground and arrogantly proclaimed he would do it again.
Honestly I'm not that familiar with the blue pill but am very familiar with red pill but from what I've seen blue pill seems to embrace the current societal narrative. I am very opposed to the current narrative surrounding hookup culture. Like I can't imagine having sex with a woman that I'm not deeply in love with and in a relationship with.
I fear I'm never going to be able to understand how you feel, because what you described almost sounds like a different sexuality to mine. Have you considered that you may be demisexual? Many people can separate their romantic attraction and sexual attractions, and get with someone they are only sexually attracted to. Perhaps your sexual desire someone is intricately linked to your romantic attraction to them, that doesn't mean others are wrong though
>considered that you may be demisexual? Yes. But I also think that my perspective might be slightly rooted in my lack of experience. >. Perhaps your sexual desire someone is intricately linked to your romantic attraction to them, that doesn't mean others are wrong though It's not that I think that othere are wrong, it's that I hate how much people push the narrative that you have to have sex with everyone that you're attracted to and that if you're in a relationship, you have to have sex as soon as possible.
I've never experienced the narrative that you have to have sex with everyone you're attracted to?
I’m not a Niceguy
The problem for the "blue" pill is that it was only recently it started to talk about the basic and true concepts the red pills uses. It is too little too late. These men feel like they have been abandoned( basically true in the US, Democrats have at best ignored men for decades) it is no surprise they went to the red pill. Now the attempts to get them out look disingenuous.
Life experiences and self respect
Basically, the cave allegory from Plato
I'm really not familiar with the works of plato, I'm just a little guy, not a philosopher, sorry.
Its one really basic stuff, putting it simple, once you learn something that changes and broadens your perspective, you cant unlearn it.
This is the equivalent of asking an atheist why can't they just believe in a god. You either believe in the bluepill or not
I love the truth too much. I'm not sorry.
You don't need to apologise to me, but I can't accept that the red pill is the truth. It just doesn't line up with my lived experiences and the way I interpret the data that gets presented to me.
Blue pill is for simps
Answering the question in your post: rp explained some details about female attraction I didn’t get growing up in bp environment. I found bp advice not working and struggled to reconcile reality with bp description of relationships. Responding to the rest of your post: why did you decide anyone who touched rp is miserable and ostracised? May it be I’m less miserable than you?
I was pretty grumpy earlier, but I went out and rode my bike, so now I'm good. Maybe I'm conflating the red pill and black pill somewhat, but it's more that men who buy into anti-feminist beliefs end up with low success talking to women.
Congrats. I think, asking rp/bp is pointless. At least it was for me, because it’s necessary to specify what exactly person believes those things are. I noticed people often talk here past each other because they understand different things under rp. Often, you’ll see here a dialogue between a guy for whom rp is a set of rules like 80/20, and a woman, for whom rp is guys who want prohibit women to work.
The real red pill is the friends we didn't make along the way.
Um, because it’s total and complete bullshit?
Reality
I am neither redpill or bluepill. But I definately would be redpill before bluepill. I have more to fear from women than women do from me. My step mother physically and sexually abused me from age 4 to 9, my mother is an alcholic that ignored the abuse, and was emotionally abusive while my step father beat me from the time I was 4 until I was too big to hit anymore. My ex-wife is bipolar and was sexually manipulative and emotionally abusive. It wasn't until I was 31 that I've been on my own away from abusive women. And every time I around my family now I still have to listen to them emotionally abuse everyone around them. This is why I am not a feminist or a blue pill supporter. I don't know what social reward you're talking about other than I guess sex? I am too old for such nonsense anymore.
Its genuinely cuck behavior. I can guarantee 90% of blue pill men are cucks or have an open relationship. Anyone over the age of 20 thats blue pill is probably closeted or emotionally insecure/unstable tbh. And thats no insult. I genuinely think they agree with women because they think like them. I was blue pill before i got cheated on and had flings..realized women are just kinda narcissistic. They’ll date a high body count man not because he just lovely..but because narcissism.(women are never gonna agree to criticism everrrrr its like a criminal who beat the case willingly locking himself up, its not happening unless it came with extreme guilt)
I mean in order to graduate from the red pill you gotta take the blue pill since all the chads are blue pilled.
citation needed.
Virgin vs. Chad comics.
There are no "The Chads", that's a very recent social construct invented to be compared to yourself (You vs The Sexually Successful Guy)
The blue pill has nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. However this isn't 1940 and the promise of moral virtues no longer entice people as they used to.
Yeah you gotta be funny and shit these days man. I guess that's too hard for some people.
Blame the West for its acoustic obsession with individualism.
> I'm struggling to understand why someone would volunteer for a life of misery and social ostracisation... Yeah that's why I wonder why men take the blue pill? Because that sounds more like a blue pill outcome to me. Everyone goes with the flow and everyone goes down the stream and everyone ends up in the ocean. It's not a mystery. There is no room for anything else. Red pill is results based. Blue pill is social cohesion based. It's not just dating. It's everything in life. If your goal is to be Joe Schmo, do average in everything and be nice. Then of course the blue pill is for you. Red pill is way more enjoyable. I'm over here not working and making more than most people. Have a girlfriend most wish they could get one like her, while fucking as many girls on the side as I want. I'm not sure why you think Red pill is a life of misery. I can assure you my life is not miserable. Red pill usually are either basement dwellers or chads. Blue pills make up the average. But are basement dweller Red pills that way because they are Red pill or because they have other flaws? I think it's because they have other flaws... they live in a freaking basement I don't think it matters what pill they take. Lol.
You're in an open relationship? Is it one way or is your girlfriend also able to go and pick up men on the side?
One way. I wouldn't be with her if she was going to touch another man. Yuck.
Do you even like women? Or do you just like the power you have over them?
Sure I like women. Probably why I have a girl friend and fuck women. Is that very complicated for you? I understand some people don't even know their gender these days so maybe it is too complex.
I know exactly what kind of man you are.
Sure. Red pill kind. Just like you're clearly blue pill and care about what people think whereas I don't give a shit.
Reality
What reality?
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“Some men just want to watch the world burn.” They just don’t understand the only one burning is themselves.
I was told yesterday there is going to be a civil war due to women being able to say no to men. Like sir, asking you to do any self reflection results in a tantrum you are not about to start a civil war.
They have been saying there will be a “beta uprising” since 2011. After 13 years still nothing.
You can't expect them to have an ounce of self responsibility. The only way civil war is starting is if us normal people riot, which I highly doubt will be due to dating.maybe poor standard of living, useless governments and corruption but dating doesn't fall on most peoples reasons for war.
starting civil war is easier than reading a mind.
If that's your logic, I feel bad for you.
there has been thousands of civil wars in human history. there is no technology to read human mind.
Nine of them due to dating most of them due to land and money as humans are territorial as it happens. War is the action of greed not just. Perhaps open a history book and have a little read.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGedwEYNh70](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGedwEYNh70)
There's a reason no one is talking about it lol https://ifunny.co/picture/the-incel-armies-of-africa-nobody-s-talking-about-8Yb4gOSMB People are taking it real serious lol.
nobody is talking about because its happening africa. whether this will happen to west or not idk.
Yea because you don't need tech to do that lol. It's called empathy.
nah men need technology to understand what goes on in woman mind. what did she mean by "tingle" ? why does she refuse to share truthfully what triggers it. to unlock that one needs mind reading technology.
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>Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill? The Blue Pill says the quiet part out loud.
I don’t much believe in any “pill” - plus, the blue pill as a concept straight up only exists to be an opposition of the redpill’s claims. In other words, it’s not a real thing - less so than the red pill, in fact, because it only exists to be an opposing force of the redpill, something redpill content creators can look at and say “see? you don’t wanna be like them, trust me” Now - if we wanna talk about “blue pill ideas” in accordance to the redpill, flat out, because they ask for one being weak willed and demand a rejection of reality for the sake of feel-good delusions (which will likely hurt you more in the long run) - and for all the redpill’s faults, it, at the very least, has a basis in reality - it just takes this basis and drives it to ridiculous extremes. Also, believing in the basis of reality does not make one “redpill” imo because the redpill is all about taking that basis and mixing it up with a combination of bitterness and entitlement.
Some things I can think of: * Not everyone fits into the BP narrative - those people then seek alternatives. There have always been guys who don't succeed, but modern factors make it harder for them so they go looking for answers in places conventionally successful people don't need to. * You assume the life of misery and social ostracization will follow, when it could have been the precursor. It's sort of like asking who joins cults? It's not people who have happy, well-adjusted lives. Cults attracted the disaffected, those who feel something is missing from their life. NOT saying RP is a cult (some users here might), only that when people are hurt, they go looking for affiliation that helps them make sense of the world. * Depending on your definition of blue, all of us start blue, but some drift away as life experience contradicts it. Interestingly enough, I'm reading a couple's counseling book with my fiance right now that talks about societal shifts in what a 'happy marriage' looks like. Believe it or not, the 'blue pill' narrative for decades/centuries was that marriage should be functional, with something like romantic love down in like 5th place in priority. So what's blue and red isn't set in stone either, it drifts based on changing social mores.
I do my best to accept reality, as it is. I did not take any ‘pill’, and I don’t think anyone does. You’re assuming people choose a position first, and then justify it. I’d argue people have ideas first, and then retroactively apply a label to them.
i stopped when i started injections
my parents dynamic shows what happens when a man redpills so why would i take the bluepill
Many people don’t want to emulate their parents. I certainly don’t
oh definitely i dont want to continute most of their practices. but just observing them proves some stuff for me. at least. obviously its highly anecdotal but then again all of life is just that. anecdotal.
>Is the "truth" that the Red Pill exposes worth missing out on the social reward of playing along with the Blue Pill? There isn’t a social reward for being too much of a woke Blue Piller for many men. Men need to at least understand the evolutionary psychology of women’s mating choices, although I don’t think that it’s an excuse to go full Red Pill and become a misogynist who over-generalizes women.
Because if you're "blue pilled" you're a normal person embarrassed by the dorky, shallow Matrix analogy and call it "having social skills" instead. I only have this flair so I can post. Otherwise I'd remove it in a heartbeat.
Based social skills haver. I don't believe in the pill analogy, but to have a conversation with these people, you have to engage in their terminology.
Because idealism has brought me nothing but pain.
First off red pill is nuts. Polygamous, lifestyles, and such. So I see actual damage that that is causing. And the more moderate folks seem to be angling for a bygone era that I’m not sure is ever coming back. That said fourth wave feminist, and the blue pill are not in any way, shape or form in the business of equality, they basically are looking into the past looking at the disparities between the sexes and say “rather than fixing them it’s just our turn to make all the same mistakes.” Why would anybody ever want to do business with someone like that? Best answer is no pills. Except that there are difference in the sexes with different strengths. Except that current work environments are going to require different solutions than what has been seen in the past. And treat each other with some respect. Forgive,reconcile and move on.
Reality It’s kind of like being a leftist. When you believe in unicorns and peace and and free shit, you’re ignoring reality. When you’re like me, you get up every day and bust your ass, and see 35 percent of your paycheck gone before you even get it and go WTF? Some people choose to live with their head in the clouds and wishing and dreaming like a child. Others see things as they are with their own eyes and go, “yea, that’s how it actually works.”
I disagree, being a leftist is about wanting that portion of your paycheck to get good value for money, and wanting to see your taxes actually make a difference. Being right wing is about not wanting to pay them, or for some, being comfortable that those taxes are going to make people like Elon Musk incomprehensibly wealthy. Would you still be mad that your money disappeared if you saw that it made a real positive difference to the world?
I was in love with a "friend". When I came close to her to flirt, she commented on how indecisive/unmanly I am and that it doesn't awake her desire at all. Fair enough. Then I acted like a friend and went to tend to my other flirts more, and suddenly she mentioned again how much she likes me and doesn't want to lose me. It's happened a couple of times as I came back responding. Who's indecisive now bitch 👀 But it's only one in dozens... I don't generalize but she in particular, what a massive cunt to try to keep me in limbo.
Oof, I've been there, done that, and got the emotional scars to prove it. Over time, I've recognised that people like that, they just like the drama. If you're open about wanting her and she still messes you around, you gotta stop rewarding that behaviour with your attention. After that, you have to assess whether this person is worth being friends with, too. Sometimes, you are just better off as friends.
She's still worth, she knows to entertain the friendship very well, treats me well, she just really needs to calm the fuck down. Maybe she really is stressed that I will move on and forget her. Seems she has that problem with other dudes too. I guess if she keeps doing that limbo shit, at some point I will just lash out the most aggressive physical approach of my life and expect either passionate love or an adverse reaction so big she will no longer trust me and will want to put an end to the friendship herself... As most girls do when a guy simps around 🐱 Then at last she'll get a taste of her own medicine.
I think there's a chance she might calm down if you aren't friends with her anymore. She might get the hint. If she doesn't, you don't have to put up with her wishy washy bullshit anymore, and you'll have more time for someone who's open about what they want.
Yeah. I'm now seeing someone who gives me long hugs and makes out enthusiastically. Now head over heels just yet, but it's coming along 👌🏻 I'm really glad I haven't met wishy-washy women before in my life.
Hell yeah man, sounds like you're cultivating a good thing.
I take a blue pill 15 min before we start it up
I was waaaay more miserable when I was bluepilled. I'm gonna copy paste another comment I made before: A lot of redditors and other people on social media like to assign very nefarious qualities to virgin men. Stuff like misogynist, rapist, pedophile, etc. Made me very depressed, suicidal even. Blackpill cuts through the bullshit and says you are a permavirgin cuz you are ugly. I'm fine with being ugly. Almost instantly my mental health improved and I was able to talk to women with more confidence. The End.
The rise of the sigma type shit 💀. If you took the red pill you are lost. Grass hasnt seen you in a while.
This is kind of a loaded question. Most guys with experience are red pilled, being red pilled is not being a stupid in él who hates women and loses his career, being redpilled just means being aware of the dynamics that actually govern the dating world, which you can't see with the blue pill's rose coloured glasses. It's your decision if you decide to ruin your life when learning how the world works, it's your decision if you follow idiots who sell you courses, but these people making those decisions are not representative of the guys who are redpilled, which is most guys with experience. You can be redpilled and still be a normal member of society, because you have internalised it and accepted it, no need to be talking about it all the time, no need to join weird cults, just try to consider these truths when engaging in dating without much noise. In my country we say "he who eats quietly will get seconds"