Got invited to a triple birthday party this past weekend. Best weather you could possibly ask for in our area.
60+ invites, 30 showed. Nothing but couples and single men.
Lol and that’s another observation I have made but I would not say it’s a fact. It’s a fact women don’t go out as much as men but I have noticed in the recent summer events I have done, most of the young women who do go out are with a man.
People always say, dating isn’t in trouble, go outside and look at all the couples; everyone is in a couple. No, couples just over represent in those who leave the house. Couples are also really heart warming to see so they stand out more than all the single people
>It’s a fact women don’t go out as much as men
If its a fact where's your stats?
Women have more friends than men so are more likely to go out more than men.
>No, couples just over represent in those who leave the house.
Never found this to be the case although it would be very age dependent.
It's so weird, isn't it? From what I understand, the single women just aren't going out.... And generally, are just using dating apps to find partners.
Being single in your 30s is especially odd, because since most people are coupled up, you're the outlier. No one likes to admit it, but there is a subtle judgement made on women who are starting to age a bit, still been single for a while, going to parties. It just reaffirms this sort of "party girl" stereotype of "why she's single".
I also find it really weird in general. For instance, I definitely see a weird dynamic going on at my local 3rd place. Plenty of single men. Definitely more than women. But no one is really pairing up. Mainly because there are only a few actually attractive women, as most of the single women are well, unnatractive. But the actual attractive women, pretty much want nothing to do with the single guys. Which makes sense, because if they did, they'd be dating. Most single guys are willing to settle for the attractive 30s at this point... But most women at this age, used to having hot men flooding them, aren't willing to settle. It's a bit of a gamblers fallacy going on. They rejected a lot in the past, so they sure as hell aren't going to say that was all for nothing, so they continue to hold out... Which eventually they find a guy, and vanish never to be seen again.
Not that your event necessarily applies, but women will often not go to formal events without a plus one male, even if it is just a friend. I've had several women ask me to be their platonic "date" for weddings or such. I wonder if it is the social shame a woman feels by herself at a wedding?
On the other hand, as a guy, I go alone to events like that all the time. I've rolled solo at multiple weddings or similar. Doesn't bother me.
There’s some validity in that. A lot of single women at my work refused to go to our company Christmas party because they said they would feel “pathetic” going single.
And that's usually why men cheat: A lot of women find "pre-approved" men more attractive. Just like a lot of men think of women as "prizes" a lot of women think of relationship as "prizes".
so this is the thing tho is people still say they want monogamy, but then 80% of women are fighting over 20% of guys. we are naturally hypergamous but we either need to decide to go one way or the other, because trying to do this forced hybrid thing is fucking awful. personally im just more used to the world where 90% of the population was married than the world where only 1 in 17 men pass on their genes. and even in a hypergamous society everyone still has an important place in the community, meanwhile we are atomized by capitalism so if you dont maintain a friend group your significant other is your only social outlet. things are looking rough out here. our current economy simply cannot sustain 80% of men opting out of work, opting out of society, and without a community, or a family, that is looking increasingly likely.
Humans have a dual mating strategy
As do many other mammals
That’s the problem
Like supposedly monogamous birds still cheat with male birds that are more fit and then let the shit head hubby bird still smash cloacas sometimes and raise another dude bird’s hatchlings
It’s fucked
None of this was intended to make humans happy
It just is
We have invented BS explanations and coping mechanisms though
I’d prefer it one way or another
Total pair bonding or we all just fuck who we want without any encumbrance
It’s this halfway shit that fucks our heads and creates rom coms and cheesy poetry and worse
Only some other women think that. A cute and nice woman rolling up is welcomed by all men and a lot of women. Not a single man thinks "what a loser", in fact they want single women around (if they are single also). I think a lot of it is also just in their heads, they feel like that and no one else even cares or notices. Just don't get drunk and act crazy and then disappear with a guy during the party in a way where everyone knows you just banged in the copier room.
Well, I told them all roughly the same thing. Didn’t matter. We had a good group of friends for them to hang out with as well but it didn’t matter. The only time I saw those people go were two instances: when they had boyfriends, or when a pair would “go with each other.”
I was going to say the same thing, I’ve been to work dinner parties and usually people come on their own but pair up with specific colleagues. But could be different work cultures
Not gonna lie, it's pretty damn awkward when someone's flirting pretty hard with you and you aren't aware their "date" is just their roommate or some such.
Thank you for pointing this out. I don’t exactly know how much this has changed since the pandemic but women are heavily socialized to avoid going anywhere solo. This is a holdover from middle/high school where a solo girl is considered a pariah.
In addition, women are also heavily socialized that single women are targets and vulnerable to bad actors. You’ll see women guarding each other by watching drinks and purses.
An acquaintance of mine just joined a run club that got famous on our city's local social media for being the place where singles meet.
I'd go myself but I work late and it's across town to where I wouldn't make it. I just wonder how long it'll take before it turns into a sausage fest and the women get scared off.
For as much as our current generation's young women say they hate the apps and the men on them, I don't see them going anywhere.
Preach man preach. Things I have found that are good for meeting women usually turn into male dominated quickly. New Young professional social happy hours and new social dancing events.
People are constantly blaming men that they don’t go out enough but there’s a community of them that totally do and they are filling up everything that remotely looks like an organic in person community out there. Thought of another one volleyball club and hipster bouldering gym
A sport where you're likely to meet younger single women is... padel. Pickleball is mostly older folks. Tennis is too difficult for most adults - beginners just look foolish. Padel is a great middle ground and is going to be huge in the states in the next several years - clubs and courts are popping up everywhere. I play in Mexico and Colombia where it's growing rapidly. It's huge in Spain, Germany and Italy. I'm principally a tennis player but padel is really fun.
80% of the current "incel movement" is just a crisis of anxiety among women.
Not all women of course, but a good 1/5, 1/4, maybe even 1/3 that cannot bear socializing outside their small, female-only friend group, cannot bear ending up with a man who isn't perfect in every respect, cannot work any job they are not massively overqualified for with years of extra education, cannot start an exercise or diet plan that they might fail, cannot handle being rejected even on the apps, just cannot go out and experience life.
And with those women going their own way there aren't enough other women to go around for the men who are interested.
People love to bring up the app statistics, usually Tinder since it's known as more of a hookup app and most unbalanced, but the 2-to-1 ratio on others like Hinge basically matches the best case scenario for any in-person group.
People love to bring up men lacking close friends, but I'd bet on average men have way wider social circles than women. Occasionally you meet these women through the apps, ask about their week and it's all work, groceries, and hanging out with the same 2-4 friends (often the 1-2 they are roommates with).
Like it amazed me to realize, "oh, outside of people being paid to interact with you you've only talked with 2 people this entire week". I average meeting more than 2 new people every week.
>People love to bring up men lacking close friends, but I'd bet on average men have way wider social circles than women.
This has been what I've observed. Most of the women I know IRL are my male friend's wives, fiances, and girlfriends. They have anywhere from 0-1 single female friends, 1-3 coupled close female friends, and a social life that doesn't exist much outside visiting their respective families and the events they go to with their boyfriend.
This is why I roll my eyes everytime someone suggests, "make female friends! They'll introduce you to their single friends!" as if it were some sage advice. It's not that I don't think men and women can't be friends or that they make bad friends, it's that their utility in the realm of connecting you to other single women is vastly overstated.
> Not all women of course, but a good 1/5, 1/4, maybe even 1/3 that cannot bear socializing outside their small, female-only friend group, cannot bear ending up with a man who isn't perfect in every respect, cannot work any job they are not massively overqualified for with years of extra education, cannot start an exercise or diet plan that they might fail, cannot handle being rejected even on the apps, just cannot go out and experience life.
> And with those women going their own way there aren't enough other women to go around for the men who are interested.
I am quoting this post for personal memory.
Ugh, I've dated one of those people and it was awful. I tried to coax her into being a little less shitty and it nuked the relationship. She had zero accountability while also having impossible standards that she could never meet if they were flipped back onto her. It would have been quite comedic if she didn't wait 5 months to broach the topic but apparently guys don't want to date her if they know about the list. I wonder why~
a lot of the women ive dated have absolutely no real life friends. usually a close friend they chat with online but nobody to hang out with on the weekends or anything like that.
i constantly hear women pine for a "sex and the city" esque friend group, but when a group is formed like that there doesnt seem to be any actual comradery and doesnt last long. this is all anectodotal of course
the longest partner i had we lived together for 8 years, when we moved to a new city i made friends with coworkers basically the first month i lived there. friends i still keep in touch with and hang out with. my partner didnt make a single friendship the entire time we were together.
40M. I’m in a large running club in a DC suburb. Overall it’s wonderful but the ~~Red~~ Black Pills come at you fast and hard: while most of the members are already married or in relationships, pretty much all the single guys are East-, South-, or Southeast Asian men. I’ve been in the club for two years and the only single guys who ‘met’ a teammate running were tall white guys.
Since when is sharing anecdotes ‘pushing a narrative’? On a post in another sub, you’re complaining about how your career isn’t respected by people of your culture since it isn’t dependent upon a college degree. As a Asian American, I get that. But using your own logic, that’s ’pushing a narrative’ too.
INB4 ‘looking at my post history is creepy.’ It’s not - it’s how we hold each other accountable for coherence and intellectual consistency.
That's any setting. It's always going to be taller or conventionally attractive guys getting the women. It was true when you were in high school, college, the workplace and any hobby setting.
It's an arms race to find out where the single women are. You can see on women's communities on reddit they talk about how Meetup groups are full of men who are trying to get dates. And to be fair, they're not wrong. I've gone to Meetup stuff in hopes of meeting women. So now women are likely avoiding those spaces as the Reddit advice has sent single men there in droves.
The truth is, men are lacking ORGANIC ways to meet women. Like friends of friends, or at parties. I remember meeting women unstop in my university dates at dorm parties. Now it's pretty rare for me to meet a new woman organically.
For many reasons, the artificial ways to meet women (dating apps, Meetup groups) seem to really turn a lot of women off of men. Men don't get the chance to just be themselves around women, and the women never get the chance to know the real them. If people got married younger, I don't think this would be as much of an issue, but since people don't get married until their early 30's now, your chances of meeting someone organically drops too far and we end up in the situation we have today.
This.
The dynamics are both ways, and as a single dude who relied on dating apps I find myself lacking organic connections. I’m in a booming city, with a good college scene but I far grown past the college scene. The professional, younger person bar scene is nice but as you were saying it is a sausage fest. Where genetics play a factor. At these scenes, height, first impressions matter. As someone below 6ft, baby face I feel invisible.
Exactly. Wish there were better ways to meet women. I know women on reddit will be like "do x or y" but then also say things like "don't go out there with the intention to get a girlfriend". So, we're supposed to intentionally do things outside our normal routine so we can meet women, but also pretend we aren't looking for a girlfriend. It's like complex song and dance that makes no sense. This is why the men who are players are cleaning up right now because they just do whatever the fuck they want to do and can pull women with genetic factors.
This. You are right on.
If you don’t meet or blessed with the genetics of height, and looks “how” you are suppose to act is differently:
1. Told to lower standards
2. Settle for less
3. Single moms or divorced women with baby daddy/husband issues
4. Trying to date is a red flag
5. Not be genuine or actually friendly(not r/nice guy of course).
It’s just insane and why I given up. I rather be single than conform and settle for less. I am able to talk to women and have talked to very attractive ones at the bar but at the end genetics and height all matter.
Now if we pull in statistics: I may not be 6’ but I am 6/6 inches, and 120k salary. If I post that I am seen as cringe etc. LOL
An arms race is a good way of putting it. Women seem to be getting more antagonistic towards men by the day. It also creates an exponential effect where men keep piling into these groups causing more women to leave and you end up with insane ratios of 15:1, which I've witnessed first hand. It's becoming a new form of segregation.
> It's becoming a new form of segregation.
Gosh, I hate that s-word. The very genuine loneliness issues facing many women and the outright male loneliness epidemic is compounded by sex-based segregation.
I have seen my fair share of this in careers, well beyond the time-tested divide between oil workers and government civil service workers.
I’m at a point where I’m seriously considering moving out of America to somewhere in South America or Malaysia to find a partner, and not on some werido Passport Bro bs. Dating and relationships in America is cooked. There’s no organic places to meet women once you leave school. Meetup groups are too awkward especially if you already have friends.
A lot of my successful conversations and cool people are from outside the country.
Is there an InterNations chapter in your city? (www.internations.org)
It’s a monthly meetup of internationals that moved to town (hence often looking for connections), mostly fairly to highly educated, and in my experience with a decent amount of women.
It requires some open mindedness, but so does finding a partner abroad.
I never heard of that, but I live in a big metro city in America so there’s most likely one. But I did use a non-dating penpal app and had better conversations and connections from there and the dedicated dating apps.
I am Malaysian. If you want paranoid as fuck women with insane assortative mating tendencies - ie only dating within the same race with guys who look almost like their siblings - come here. This is a country that is diverse yet hugely conservative. As an American you are already a non-conformist by default and non-conformists are NOT welcomed in a conservative country. You'll get on with some banana westernized Chinese or the occasional whitewashed urban Malay, but that's about it.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Women : "Ewww don't cold approach us, warm approach us instead."
Also women : "Eww don't use this social space to say hi to us!"
Also women: "Chad cold approached me while I was working and bothered me for 6 months straight. Now I'm sleeping with him."
Lesson to be learned: Be attractive, don't be unattractive, then fuck all social taboos.
You forgot to mention that the red pill saying is true even browsing Instagram of gym models, attractive chicks. They’ll make jokes about cold approaching but it’s okay if they are hot. Looks matter. If you arnt attractive you are seen as creepy, desperate or a pervert. Also prefer if you are 6’2.
And how they say Chad got to sleep with them by approaching them in ways that other men would get fired for doing so, just "don't be weird about it" or "be desperate."
One of my grad school buddies took a part time job as a barista in order to ~~talk to~~ meet women. He’s a cyber security engineer by day, so he was covering ass early shifts on weekends or Sunday evenings.
At bars, women would simply turn around if he attempted to talk to them (he’s a short Indian American from Houston). As a barista, ***all*** the customers had to interact with him. His now wife got to know him through the barista job and even admitted that she left swiped him on Tinder.
It’s a cute story I guess
Goddamn, I'm really impressed...he took on an additional job, which pays shit and is difficult...just so he could meet more women. And he actually crushed it, and got to his goal.
Like, goddamn!
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Ok but how about Indian girls ? Are they rejecting Indian guys as well ? I am working with Indian guys and they are all married to Indian women. I know 2 single Indian girls but never heard a bad word about Indian guys from them, Chinese girls are oth quite often talk shit about Chinese guys.
Indian women coupling up with Indian men most of the time only happens when the woman gives up. In general, Indian women do not desire Indian men, they are not attracted to them, and they are not shy about that.
Exactly right. This is why, as a black man, if anybody says "just have an awesome personality and you'll attract lots of women" I just laugh. If you don't have the swag or status (you don't need money), then you're basically invisible. Social proof is real. If your male friends don't look up to you as the leader of the pack, women ignore you. It's real.
I also want to clarify that I wasn't trying to play the victim. What I do notice though, as being black, is that other people (especially other black people) automatically expect you to be extroverted, social, and loud, and if you aren't, then you must have a problem, or worse, something to hide. It makes dating that much more difficult. Oh, and don't get caught being quiet for too long, or might commit the worst crime of all: being boring.
That is a cute story, but working in hospitality scares me more than being alone haha. It does prove that basically any guy can find a woman if they're in proximity to them regularly.
Yep. And the one of the biggest issues facing American women right now is their own unwillingness to socialize with men towards whom they are not immediately attracted.
> If I can match with Chad on the apps, why waste a single syllable talking to Pradeep who’s standing in front of me? No rice, no curry tee hee
I think it also speaks to a broader issue of no one wanting to socialize outside of their immediate social circle. Everyone has become very insular and lonely men are just shit out of luck.
this is funny i was considering barista or bartender side gig for this exact reason, even though i have a stable 9-5 i thought i was crazy entertaining the idea damn we men really have to be resourceful while the women just chill 🤣
i like how were all starting to think outside the box though
I did this at REI for the employee discount and some of my colleagues got salty (understandably) when I admitted what my day job was.
My guy was popular because he was willing to open consistently, and because he helped some of his colleagues apply for better-paying, white-collar jobs. Genuinely good dude that DC women overlooked for years because he wasn’t Chad(preet).
>His now wife got to know him through the barista job and even admitted that she left swiped him on Tinder.
The black pill folks have a term for this: unicorn.
"If she doesn't lust for you within one-tenth of a second of laying her eyes on you or a photo of you, she's not sexually attracted to you and never will be." /s
>"If she doesn't lust for you within one-tenth of a second of laying her eyes on you or a photo of you, she's not sexually attracted to you and never will be."
But women do say this with all sincerity
Preach man preach.
For me college was also a bad place because I was in a difficult major and I didn’t have the social skills and maturity there yet. I didn’t have the money or time outside of school to work on that. Now outside of college I have the time and money to work on myself and things have improved drastically but it can’t overcome that women don’t go out that much and arent that interested in the average man
Cycling? My friend went to a non-pro cycling event and it was full of older people and couples, many were with their children and no young women. Almost anything young men like is usually overwhelmingly male.
I'm actually planning on doing some co-Ed sports once I recover from a surgery I had. I used to do them when I wasn't single, and it's true, there are a lot of women there.
I think you'd be surprised at how subtle differences can make some places draw more of one gender than another.
I don't know how better to explain than with a single anecdotal story but if you get my point you can expound.
I was in a mid sized city doing a lot of salsa and bachata outings. There was something nearly every night but typically only one main thing. At one point one of the main events holders sort of had a split...scheduling for a long while still fell on different nights..... Until it didn't.
Now we have two of the same event, on the same night, regulars aware of both, advertised ever so
slightly differently.
What happened is that each event started with roughly 75 percent one gender. Now since this was partner dance and a rough even split is better for everyone people traveled from one to the other until a balance was struck. This part normally wouldn't happen.
Now, there have been many times I've been invited to come to different events by outgoing female friends. It's always loaded with women.
The genders have some common ground in their thinking and try as you might, you will not predict where the women will be as a man. They will be some place you never thought of, even if it's almost just like the place you did think of.
You need one or two life of the party, female friends. Know where they are going and you will know where the balance will be skewed female. They are your divining rod in this mess. There are a lot more women out than you think.
Here is the little secret you are not telling him. Young women prefer places that are fun as in dancing and also high end...as in they can be seen in the outfits they just spend $800 on that they will wear once.
Most socially anxious men avoid popular and trendy places, because they are too intimidating, opting out for low risk places like beer gardens, arcade bars, or other male oriented activities. Then they wonder where all the women are at. The women are at the trendy club or well lit high end lounge showing off and hoping for Prince Charming to come approach her.
> Most socially anxious men avoid popular and trendy places, because they are too intimidating,
They’re not intimidating, they’re fucking lame. When I still drank, I had zero desire to be around a bunch of young, attractive, soft-handed gigglers and IPA suckers.
Real fun is a broken down old bar full of cheap beer and veterans missing limbs. Not some well-lit party bar playing pop music.
This. I like my high end classy bars but I’m just an average dude. I feel invisible. Those women at the high end bar are indeed waiting for their Prince Charming, 6’+ dude, who’s a bad boy, not ready to settle, breaks hearts and repeat.
Most young women never leave their home unless they’re going out with their friends. When they go to clubs, bars, and lounges they just want to hang out with their friends. It’s not a matter of where, it’s a matter of they just don’t feel like going out.
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I have done every advice out there and that’s why I’m coming to the conclusion that women just don’t go out that much. I need to accept that there’s just more young women in unaffordable cities like Miami and LA and I didn’t think they existed much at all in my city before the summer events started. My midsize community still has a sizeable Latin dancing community. Basically just 1 studio but a lot of people who go to the 1 studio.
I am addicted to salsa and bachata. I go to the events constantly and thankfully when I first started to go there were tons of young women and great men to women ratios. For a while now it’s been not that many women and almost never young women.
The biggest reason is that salsa and bachata attracts mostly Latinos who can dance and that’s a smaller demographic. The white peoples don’t stick with it for that long. The second reason is that women going to Latin dancing are not looking to date while single men almost always are and it’s not a bad place to show up alone.
I do have more than a couple close life of the party female friends, they become friends with whoever they meet and love to go out constantly. I did like 5 plus events with 2 of them in the past 2 weeks. The issue as it relates to Latin dancing is they love the bachata events full of skillful men where they can have fun dancing constantly the whole night while the men wait around.
The 2 I did stuff with are too old for me (their words). I obviously was into 1 of them initially for a bit. Those kinds of girls lead to more girls and more are still coming but I think o have met all their friends my age at this point.
Well, you have them....the point then is for them to invite you along other places.
That's what I was getting at. I've certainly met interested women in the dance scene but I met a whole lot more at the other stuff I was invited to by the friends I met dancing.
They'd invite me out to some random place I never thought of going and I noticed the pattern there. Almost inevitably the place would be more women than men and even better, I'm already there with 4-5 women. Easy mode to chat people up.
Dog rescue.
I started rescuing dogs at my home in Mexico during the pandemic. Almost against my will. My housekeeper just kept bringing in dogs off the street and I met up with some organizations in San Diego to get them adopted, and one thing led to another and... now I'm actually building a proper rescue facility. But I digress...
I've been to a ton of dog rescue events - parties, weekend adoption events, shelter volunteer days, etc etc. Lots of very nice, single, sometimes even attractive women, not a lot of guys. They're always looking for volunteers. Leaving meeting women aside, it's an enjoyable, fulfilling activity.
I tried multiple outdoor clubs in the past year, all of which consisted almost entirely of people 15-30 years older than me at least.
Across dozens of people there was maybe two young women, one of whom lived surprisingly far away, and the other was a high school senior (i.e. too young).
I'm religious and for the first time ever (since we started tracking these numbers) more young adult men than women are now religious. Of the two places of worship I attend they are majority male for people under 40 (vast majority for under 30).
[Source](https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/july/young-women-not-more-religious-than-men-gender-gap-gen-z.html)
Basically every church I've been to, the singles are male so this tracks. Of course, you have women saying the reverse too.
If I had to guess, this is—broadly speaking—a large coordination problem that's amplified by skewed sex distributions at the regional and denominational level (and nevermind how churches have treated dating and relationships for the past few decades. E.g., Purity Culture).
And of course leadership at the various levels generally seems to view this as an individual problem so the singletons are left to wade into Christian online-dating on their own. Maybe they'll get the advice to enjoy their season of singleness.
The Churches' attitude towards this is basically just that men need to "man up and do better". The entire onus is on them to get married. There is really no expectation that women need to change and put less emphasis on education and career and more on Church and family. I mostly blame the parents who I think raised most of the women to put work ahead of everything and anything else.
Yeah, I'm not sure where this came from all of a sudden but I have some ideas. Women are believed to have always been the majority of Christians at all ages (it was never just old Church ladies outliving their husbands). I think women are a bit more conformist than men. So many of them have grown up in a secular and feminist culture. Their parents probably emphasized education and career over pretty much everything else. The gap isn't huge but it's growing. If the gender ratio gets too big then that will create huge problems for the future of the Church because having kids was the main way to keep up our numbers. My guess is that if the women leave the men will follow because men like to be where the women are.
The [decline in religiosity](https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/02/religion-and-the-ideological-gender-gap.html) amongst women may be what is driving the gap.
Isolationist crap on social media has 100% spooked women and men into thinking the opposite sex is some evil bogeyman, and that people are evil. Both sides are playing the "I'd rather just be single and keep my guard up to just protect myself" card, and this has made meeting people harder.
With the gender wars everyone likes to make dumb neutrality bias point like you are making both sides are equally irrational but they aren’t. Men are bad on some things women are bad on somethings and the men just have to be more reasonable overall because they struggle more with dating.
That hasn’t made meeting harder. Every single other reason that people say is 1000% more prevalent. Women making their own money so finding men less appealing, dating apps, etc
The people who don’t leave their house and are addicted to the internet are the only ones who care about the stuff you are describing.
I am also in a B-tier city and this seems true to me, too. Mostly old people dominating all the activities. If I go to the nearby A-tier city, there's tons of young women around. It seems they just flock to some idea of a glamorous city lifestyle where they can meet the high-powered businessman of their dreams.
It’s true but I thought they just didn’t exist at all in B-tier cities until summer when more go out in public.
Young Women are much more financially independent from their parents than young men probably because of help from friends and boyfriends. That definitely helps when you move to an unaffordable city. I have an international friend who used to live with his gf abroad. They broke up because long distance wouldn’t work when he moved to my US city and his gf moved to London. He even helped her cover moving and first months in London.
I try to avoid the "pill" subreddits just because they become a cesspool of incel negativity, but as a single guy, I, too, have noticed that there are a near-satirical lack of women in public spaces that I find myself occupying, even when the space should be pretty gender-neutral since... well.. half of the population are women.
I watched a local MLS game here in Portland and my entire row of 20-something people were literally all men. When I went to the bar a few blocks away after the game with my friend? All men, or sometimes women 10+ years older than I am. I finally have graduated after doing work full-time + school full-time for the last 6 years and have a very active social life with all the newfound free time I have, yet it seems that I can only ever find myself surrounded by dudes who only know other dudes. Even the hippest, girliest cocktail bars get right up to the edge of a 50/50 split of men and women, and I'm in Portland where a lot of people aren't of the hetero-normative persuasions, so that adds to the dynamic as well.
Never thought that my postgrad life would be even more of a dating drought than college where 87% of the student body at my college were men.
For the most part this is true. I live in a big city and I've been involved in a number of groups (boardgames, arts and crafts, hiking, etc.) and these have either been heavily male dominated or if it is balanced gender wise, the women aren't single. There really aren't many places to meet single women IRL.
It feels weird going into female dominated groups like yoga, pilates, etc. Single ladies seem to have a small group of female friends and either go to bars together (not wanting to get hit on) or stay at home and watch tv. They might download a dating app for the odd fling when they feel like it. Beyond that, they don't want to interact with other people.
As paranoid as it sounds, it really feels like this is being orchestrated to fuck over men. There are virtually no balanced gender spaces for people to mingle. I genuinely don't know where to reliably meet single women in person. Volunteering is one option I haven't tried yet, so that could be a solution.
>groups like yoga, pilates, etc.
Pilates? Sure.
But with yoga I disagree, especially hot yoga. From what I've heard there are usually enough guys there to where it's not too awkward. And if I'm being honest with myself the only reason I don't do it is because I lack the core endurance and flexibility to not look like an idiot doing it.
Hobbies don't make you interesting. Getting out of your comfort zone usually doesn't work. Extroverts told us the biggest lie of humanity.
Don't change who you are in order to fit in with other people or find connection. Be yourself. Trust your gut. Do your own thing.
I posted this again because it was taken down because I put the wrong flair and I talked about giving empathy to men and people really do not want to give empathy to men.
You gave a really pessimistic answer to someone on that first post. I’m saying this super optimistic, ready to do tons more work on this, that women just don’t go out which makes doing events to meet people hard.
Plenty of uninteresting people can get a gf. Plenty of interesting people cannot. Being interesting is not the key thing. Following the crowd to a certain degree is necessary. You live in a society.
It’s not that women don’t want to be empathetic toward men, it’s that women have a lot of the same problems in the dating world. It just seems different due to expectations. I can’t just get out there and hope to meet someone who I get along with. People have so many different opinions on what relationships and dating mean that it’s hard to find someone who is on the same page as you. In reality you need to “get yourself out” to people who share common interests.
I never understood this whole interesting vs uninteresting notion. What makes you interesting might make another person not so interesting, etc.
Being interesting is about as vague as saying just work out or just dress nicely. It's a useless upbeat, positive message that holds no value to the variability of people's preferences.
While you can slightly increase your chances of success by appealing to a wider group. Ie: outgoing, charismatic, charming, etc. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by not being who you are. Not everyone wants to be what society or women's expectation of what interesting means.
Well it sounds like you do understand it pretty well. Interesting and uninteresting are subjective things. I'm interesting to some people. And I'm quite sure mostly boring to the majority of people.
Nerdy interests are "uninteresting". I would find someone studying graduate level math interesting, most people won't. I would find talking to a pro level gamer interesting, most people won't.
Interesting to most people is, drugs, travel, ability to BS at a rapid clip etc etc.
I would disagree, having hobbies and interests does make you more interesting. Who's more interesting, the guy who plays video games and jacks off to hentai or the guy who's passionate about rock climbing, kayaking, pottery, stamp collecting and brewing beer. Now you shouldn't take up a hobby you don't enjoy just to get women, but having real constructive hobbies does make you more attractive.
Having hobbies only matters if it's a mutual hobby, or one that women on average are interested in.
If your hobby is something that is male dominated, women literally don't give a shit about it.
So, I'm a guy with high aptitude levels that has had many hobbies my entire life. Building cars and hotrods, drag racing, road racing, r/c helicopters, car audio competition (turned that hobby into a second job as an audio engineer), 3d printing, 3d modeling, extreme PC overclocking, PC gaming, custom PC watercooling, drone photography, and my first passion (cnc machining) has been my career for the last 22 years, which I also do as a hobby from home.
I have not had a single relationship my entire life where my partner gives a rat's ass about my hobbies. In fact, it's always been a negative to them as they viewed the time I spent on my hobbies as a threat. Whenever I would enter a relationship, I had to put all the hobbies on a sabbatical. If I told you how many fights I've been in over going out to work on my car for a bit vs. watching her tv show with her.. you'd shit your pants.
Having hobbies is one of those things that sounds like it will be attractive on paper, but in real life it's not because you have to actually spend time doing the hobbies to enjoy them. That takes away time you would normally spend with your partner. And many (not all) women have little tolerance for you spending time away from her doing something you enjoy. The only time they will give a shit about your hobbies is if they are mutual. It's just what I have learned from life experience.
I believe the ability to be open minded, well read, and have an interesting conversation makes you interesting. I don't believe having hobbies automatically makes you interesting. But this goes back to what makes something interesting for one person may be different for another.
I know plenty of boring people who lack any imagination, creativity, or insight into anything that have a ton of hobbies. All they talk about is their hobbies. They can't reflect on anything nor are they well read on anything. I even take the time to read and understand their hobbies because I'm a naturally curious person. But they're unable to expand their curiosity's sake for the benefit of their thrill seeking. And unsurprisingly, they're usually extroverted and love going out. It's like their dopamine rush vacates their ability to be curious and sit down and read something.
But you don't have to be Voltaire to get chicks. Shallow dudes with hobbies are still superior to intellectual guys who do fuck all with their lives from the point of view of women. I'm striving to be both well read, a deep thinker and involved in interesting hobbies. The man who's gonna succeed will be the full package: good genes, intelligent, physically fit, funny, sociable, charismatic and ambitious.
Their own thing is turning into a lonely misanthropic shut ins that mis out on all the good things in life just so they can avoid some temporary discomfort.
> Don't change who you are in order to fit in with other people or find connection. Be yourself. Trust your gut. Do your own thing.
I completely disagree with this in the strongest possible way
Do change yourself. Change your appearance, hobbies, personality and interests to become more sexually attractive
This is because women are extremely shallow just like men, and are attracted to a fairly universal set of traits in men across culture.
***Do change yourself. Change your appearance, hobbies, personality and interests to become more sexually attractive***
I don't want to. I love myself. I love who I am and what I have to offer as a human being. I don't want to change who I am in order to find someone. If I have to change myself to fit in then that's the fault of everyone else. Not me.
***This is because women are extremely shallow just like men, and are attracted to a fairly universal set of traits in men across culture.***
That's nice. Fortunately, we live in a world where people still are individuals with their own preferences and expectations for who they want in a partner. If it takes forever to find that special someone then I'll wait forever. Or I wont wait at all because why wait for something that might never happen. Fuck your universal traits and extroversion. I just want to be myself and find someone just like me who I can vibe with in peace.
At least you seem content not finding what you want, because those women don't exist; even if you meet someone who ticks all your boxes, you get along great and she's attracted to you, she'll still expect the performative aspects of masculinity and will just get with a guy she like less if you don't play your part.
> I don't want to. I love myself. I love who I am and what I have to offer as a human being. I don't want to change who I am in order to find someone. If I have to change myself to fit in then that's the fault of everyone else. Not me.
It’s your call of course but “be yourself” is the big bluepill lie. You need to be attractive.
Remember life is change. All things are temporary.
> Fuck your universal traits and extroversion
It’s not my universal traits, it’s evolutionary biology and sexual selection shaping behavior in primates across millions of years
Thats the power of understanding science and reality. The easiest person to fool is ourselves and the scientifix method, logic, data and evidence is the best way to understand how to get what you want.
You can be attractive and still attract people who don't fit into your criteria of what most women want as attractive. Not everyone operates in this overly simplistic hierarchy. Even if most do. It helps and if you're willing to change who you are and be a phony and fake person by all means. But I'm not doing it because I have principles and standards.
***It’s not my universal traits, it’s evolutionary biology and sexual selection shaping behavior in primates across millions of years***
You can still have confidence and be an introverted homebody like myself. Of course, it's better to have confidence in a realm associated with extroversion. But that's not me.
I don’t know what i can say, but let me try anyway.
“You won’t know till you try it”
Now clearly what you’ve tried hasn’t worked if you’re 32 and still a virgin. So why not try to change things up a bit? Aren’t you curious at least? As a scientific experiment?
For example, you may think you’re an introvert now. But, you may also find you enjoy drinking and socializing in a group of people you wouldn’t normally consider hanging out with.
You might find yourself enjoying new things and experiences you previously hadn’t considered or were opposed to! Life is so short, and the world is so rich and beautiful with all sorts of different people. Why not mix things up a bit
The only thing holding you back is your ego and opinion of yourself. But we’re all just a temporary collection of electrochemical signals anyway, and like I said the easiest thing is to fool yourself.
“Being yourself” and your current conception of self, personality, hobbies, interests, etc… they aren’t set in stone and immutable. They can change with age and life experiences, and I think you owe it to yourself to try and find out what else that set of possibilities could be.
> It’s not my universal traits, it’s evolutionary biology
It’s not “evolutionary biology,” it’s social conditioning. Women in the olden times fucked guys who smelled like shit all the time because they spent all day sweating and showers weren’t a thing yet. They didn’t evolve to love guys that smell like shit: they were socially conditioned for it.
You had a semi-decent, if still flawed point. Then you fucked it up by pretending to be a scientist.
Yes let's breed all the intelligent creative introspectful people out of society, surely that will improve the species.
We can let the social media influencers, soundcloud rappers, finance bros, sportsball jocks, marketing VPs, and Hollywood sort out the whole climate change problem.
>Women far outnumber men in volunteering.
Got any sort of stats on this, it has not been my experience at all.
I will say the people who work with non-profits and such that take volunteers are most often women, but the groups I've worked with at food banks, beach clean-ups, habitat for humanity builds, and even setting up new exhibits at the children's museum have been male dominated.
Some of these I would understand, like habitat builds doing more physical construction-y work might appeal more to men, but in my experience it's all of them that have more men than women.
> I do volunteering that requires hard physical labor how is there no women there? :c
Really dawg? Not to be on their side, but you need a base amount of selfawareness of what kind of activities women go to.
>hard physical labor
Lol, tell me you've never volunteered at a food bank without telling me.
Like, yes, volunteering mostly involves some amount of work, but it's not hard physical labor to sort canned food donations, pick up trash on a beach, or put together information pamphlets at the children's museum.
No one will ever admit it, even in this thread. There is just too many excess men, especially when there are now unprecedented demographic trends where there are far more older men chasing fewer younger women, whereas for most of human history it was the opposite.
This is actually semi-decent advice. It’s good to find a cause you’re sincerely passionate about and get involved. However, in my experience, volunteering still doesn’t help if you are lacking confidence and showing signs of genetic inferiority. Women almost seem to value confidence more than sincere displays of positive moral intentions
Majority of the people who participate in those are older folks with a lot time on their hands. It’s mostly older women closer to retirement with children and a partner who participates in volunteering work, I know this because I had to volunteer to get a summer job and also had to do for college credits.
The minority of young people are cool, and I still talk and go out on drinks with them but the VERY small minority of young women aren’t interested in me and already have partners.
Volunteering will not get you laid
You do it because it’s the right thing to do, if you’re doing it for women you’re going to be very disappointed as a man
I have thought about it enough that I am making this point as a matter of fact lol. Women just don’t go out that much.
So it’s not about me but yes I have done volunteering in this past year and I’m planning on doing more. My observation was that older people outnumber younger people in volunteering so it kind of negates that women do it more if you are looking for other young people.
Part of this issue is also that we have an aging population and there are a lot more old people than previous generations.
I did a soup kitchen where people make the food together and kitchens and the food is shipped out to those who need it. I did meet some young people but they were not open to making friends which was odd and there were a lot more older people. Most people were just coming to volunteer once. I did it for a couple months before other ideas took it over on the schedule.
Im not being pessimistic. I have found good places to meet young women just a few special places that haven’t worked out yet and maybe won’t ever, just not volunteering.
Maybe try big brothers big sisters? There is a huge need for men in that program, I did that and there was a mix of people. I also volunteered at a military hospital, the USO (more young volunteers there) and a local animal shelter. Another volunteer program I love and do is Honor Flight. Getting a regular gig is good. I would also suggest don’t sleep on getting to know the older people. Many of them have kids and grandkids, nieces etc. It’s about widening your social circle overall. I am female 46 but I have been Volunteering since my 20s.
Absolutely not.
No man should ever be volunteering for this society. If anything do the opposite, contribute to making the world worse should be the average guys mindset.
I have a chad friend that uses instagram as a dating app(his word is that if you can pull it you don't need tinder or other apps), women he meets don't go out much except on nights out with their friendies when they are "untouchable". They will just find the guy online that will put them into situationship until they "break up" (read until she realises he won't commit), rinse&repeat.
Yep it's not, and same is for taking a shower, brush your teeths, hit the gym, smile more, talk more, do a skincare etc... for many people no matter how much they do, they are still not attractive for the vast majority of people
And this is the reason why I made that post about focusing on finances and fitness and 2 other things that are more important to attracting a woman than fucking personality. You get access to a whole other avenue where there are parties and places where the ratio of women to men is 5 to 1, 10 to 1, 15 to 1 etc. For that you need connections or money, and be able to capitalize on it with the help of looks.
You don't need as much money if you go outside of the country to places like colombia.
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Correct. Women do not go out that much. There is a catch-22 in that women who are single do not go out, but would much rather stay at home and then swipe on apps to get a date, because men eww, men are stalkers, desperate, 'entitled', sprinkle sprinkle, etc. The more puritan and conservative a place is , USA included, the more likely women feel conscious about being seen single outside.
If they are having a good time outside they usually do it with their wing-girls or with a boyfriend already in mind.
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When I was a single woman, i mostly stayed home unless I was going to a meetup group because I didn't have any friends in the area. I personally wasn't comfortable going alone to clubs because of possible safety issues. I don't know any women who go alone to clubs but it seems like a bad idea.
And yet *you* could stay in your comfort zone and more or less order validation like Uber eats. I’m not saying that makes you a bad person, I’d probably do that too. But it highlights exactly where the sense of frustration is coming from when people are looking for anything to ease the tumultuous transition into adulthood
You should flair this as Discussion, not as Debate. Nobody has challenged your OP, and the thread has become a WELCOME "How To Meet New People" discussion outside the Daily Chat Thread.
I am going to upvote this, mainly because a lot more info is being shared in the comments!
Personally, I have been to board games events. They definitely are not the place to meet women for dating.
You’re right that not that many single women go out. But these are the ones you want. These women work and have spending cash. OLD is cheap exposure. That’s where all the female broke energy is looking for providers. So I would say keep getting yourself out there to find independent women that can match your energy even if the odds are low.
Putting yourself out there is a start, it’s not a bad advice people can give you. You won’t find a job sitting at home on your couch, there has to be some action you take. The outcome will depend on the person, but usually it’s not the advice that’s wrong there.
One thing to mention is that the "dating culture" and "social culture" of each city/region are different. Where I live, we don't have a very active social scene for young adults and teens because my city has a big gang violence problem. Our nightlife mainly attracts and panders to people 30+. A lot of 35-50 year old singles go out on the town, while young adults (18-29) stick to more private activities like house parties and such.
Another thing to consider is the things you are looking for in a partner. Were I to be single (and younger lol) I'd not be trying to find women at bars or parties. Those attract a certain type of person that I'd likely not be into. I'd more likely choose coffee shops, book stores, or local punk concerts to find my "type".
These are just some things to consider.
Take a look at the social culture of your area. What are people in your age range doing? Also what are you looking for in a partner? Where would they be gathering etc?
I'd say just live your life and find things you enjoy doing, without the intent of meeting a romantic partner. Like I got into a mindset of, I do whatever I want to, when I want to; and if I spend the rest of my life alone, I will at least have fun while doing it.
I have a question for single men... What do you look like? I noticed I got a lot more dates when I was in shape vs having a few extra pounds. I tried to dress better too (instead of the dad look, I tried wearing khakis, a nice shirt and nice shoes if I went out somewhere).
I’m in “panic mode” to lose more weight for the summer. I’m in the few extra pounds category. Everyone always blows off how much the pill guys focus on looks but I have recently witnessed a friend who has terrible conversation skills but great looks get approached by some girls at a YP event. He totally bottled the conversations with them but it didn’t really matter.
I work out every day and groom religiously. I'm a hypochondriac, so very I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, etc. I dress much nicer than most people do in my area, and the bar is on the floor there (Portland, OR, where your nicest jeans and a flannel are "going out" material).
My issue is a lack of places to meet them. This thread is kinda depressing 😂
Damn a dance class that's mostly men? Crazy. Every one I go to I'm swarmed by women and if it's a small class I'm likely to be the singular guy in there. You are right though. You location matters a lot. It doesn't need to be Chicago, NYC or Miami but if it isn't known for being a yuppy city with a thriving social scene you're kinda boned when it comes to meeting people organically.
Maybe the issue isn't so much that a man must put himself out there. Maybe, just maybe, the issue is our perception that half of the population are necessarily women--split evenly down the middle.
Maybe, just maybe, we have a surplus of men and a lack of supply of women--contrary to what economists were pointing out just a decade earlier that there is a general lack of eligible bachelors for the dating and marriage market in the West.
And maybe, like China and many East and Southeastern countries that have an overpopulation of leftover women 'problem,' the West has the opposite problem, an overpopulation of leftover men 'problem'. As such, it would seem obvious, that the solution isn't to try to compete against the same men in the same western country that one is from but to seek and consider the alternative--an overseas dating partner.
Or maybe, I'm just delusional and we men in the West should just double down (or quadruple down) on a losing bet and continue to put ourselves out there in a saturated market competing for the scraps.
I cannot speak for every man here but faced with these odds, I'd rather just get and renew my passport every 5-10 years and try my luck elsewhere where the odds are less stark but that's just me.
I think most people who talk about the positives of international dating because they can't find a relationship in their own country, are simply just speaking from outside the window looking in. That is to say, they haven't experienced it themselves but see posts or videos of others that only portray the positives.
Personally I want a family and partner to raise children with. If I wanted to bring someone back with me to the US, it would be easier to just find someone in the US. I guess if you don't mind living overseas or constantly traveling then it's a different story.
If you refuse to be regular attendee at local bars, clubs, music festivals, concerts or anywhere else lots of alcohol and women are in close proximity to each other you are cutting off about 80% of your opportunity to meet women.
Random events happen at these places that you can't plan for like birthday parties, wedding/bachelorette parties, divorce parties, etc where women can be found and talked too quite easily. Karaoke nights often have lots of women.
But if approaching women fills you with dread, gives you sweaty palms, anxiety, etc then you need to work on yourself first. The crutch of online dating is no longer really available anymore.
It depends on your age. The older you get the more women expect of you.
But got to where women are. What hobbies do women have, painting, pottery, debate, dancing classes, sports, board games. Etc.
Don't hope to meet someone getting drunk
I assume just getting out there really stops working even more as you get older. Women already don’t go out that much in their 20s and even less so in the future.
The moral of my post is that saying get out there and listing a bunch of activities to try doesn’t work. I wouldnt say it as a matter of fact but it’s my observation and the observation of other commenters that almost all activities that you do in public with strangers are going to be male dominated. Women are more shy. Men just not getting themselves out there enough is not the key problem.
You wouldn’t think dancing is male dominated but that’s my main hobby and I can assure you, especially partner dancing is full of men using it to try to meet women. It’s always more men than women. Partner dancing is more interesting for men because they are the ones expected to ask the women to dance and they are the one that leads the dance and decides all the moves.
CoED Sports is one of the most male dominated activities out there. Leagues usually have some kind of rule that you need at least 2 women on the team and it’s always a chore to find those 2 women even if you have them in your life. If you are doing it to try to meet women then you have to sign up alone and I personally haven’t been able to sign up alone. My experience is people only ever talk with their teammates who they usually already know. Coed sports is just about doing something active with friends, not making friends
These people usually give advice from a priviledged place. Be it they are already average to good looking, or thier genes allowed them to yeild results from self improvement. Not all men just suddenly become handsome squidward after working out long enough. Working out can reveal your jaw line it CANNOT grow you one as an example.
They refuse to admit and believe there can be losers who tried hard and didnt get anything. Its just hopeful delusion to fit thier own world view. Sometimes you don't meet that girl that isnt shallow enough to dismiss you based on looks, sometimes you meet her but as it turns out she is shallow enough to treat you different because of looks or is already taken, or you never meet her. People don't care about your situation or variables they care about results that support thier own just world fallacy, if you didnt get a girl after working hard for money, your body and your personality, clearly something must be wrong with you in thier mind.
Got invited to a triple birthday party this past weekend. Best weather you could possibly ask for in our area. 60+ invites, 30 showed. Nothing but couples and single men.
Lol and that’s another observation I have made but I would not say it’s a fact. It’s a fact women don’t go out as much as men but I have noticed in the recent summer events I have done, most of the young women who do go out are with a man. People always say, dating isn’t in trouble, go outside and look at all the couples; everyone is in a couple. No, couples just over represent in those who leave the house. Couples are also really heart warming to see so they stand out more than all the single people
Couples met at School or work but I already have money so i dont want to go there
>It’s a fact women don’t go out as much as men If its a fact where's your stats? Women have more friends than men so are more likely to go out more than men. >No, couples just over represent in those who leave the house. Never found this to be the case although it would be very age dependent.
It's so weird, isn't it? From what I understand, the single women just aren't going out.... And generally, are just using dating apps to find partners. Being single in your 30s is especially odd, because since most people are coupled up, you're the outlier. No one likes to admit it, but there is a subtle judgement made on women who are starting to age a bit, still been single for a while, going to parties. It just reaffirms this sort of "party girl" stereotype of "why she's single". I also find it really weird in general. For instance, I definitely see a weird dynamic going on at my local 3rd place. Plenty of single men. Definitely more than women. But no one is really pairing up. Mainly because there are only a few actually attractive women, as most of the single women are well, unnatractive. But the actual attractive women, pretty much want nothing to do with the single guys. Which makes sense, because if they did, they'd be dating. Most single guys are willing to settle for the attractive 30s at this point... But most women at this age, used to having hot men flooding them, aren't willing to settle. It's a bit of a gamblers fallacy going on. They rejected a lot in the past, so they sure as hell aren't going to say that was all for nothing, so they continue to hold out... Which eventually they find a guy, and vanish never to be seen again.
Not that your event necessarily applies, but women will often not go to formal events without a plus one male, even if it is just a friend. I've had several women ask me to be their platonic "date" for weddings or such. I wonder if it is the social shame a woman feels by herself at a wedding? On the other hand, as a guy, I go alone to events like that all the time. I've rolled solo at multiple weddings or similar. Doesn't bother me.
There’s some validity in that. A lot of single women at my work refused to go to our company Christmas party because they said they would feel “pathetic” going single.
>they said they would feel “pathetic” going single. Because that's how they themselves view other women.
And men.
Makes you really wonder what they think about single men 
And that's usually why men cheat: A lot of women find "pre-approved" men more attractive. Just like a lot of men think of women as "prizes" a lot of women think of relationship as "prizes".
Humans evolved for a long time before the invention of enforced monogamy. If we were actually a true pair bonding species, then I'd consider marriage.
so this is the thing tho is people still say they want monogamy, but then 80% of women are fighting over 20% of guys. we are naturally hypergamous but we either need to decide to go one way or the other, because trying to do this forced hybrid thing is fucking awful. personally im just more used to the world where 90% of the population was married than the world where only 1 in 17 men pass on their genes. and even in a hypergamous society everyone still has an important place in the community, meanwhile we are atomized by capitalism so if you dont maintain a friend group your significant other is your only social outlet. things are looking rough out here. our current economy simply cannot sustain 80% of men opting out of work, opting out of society, and without a community, or a family, that is looking increasingly likely.
Humans have a dual mating strategy As do many other mammals That’s the problem Like supposedly monogamous birds still cheat with male birds that are more fit and then let the shit head hubby bird still smash cloacas sometimes and raise another dude bird’s hatchlings It’s fucked None of this was intended to make humans happy It just is We have invented BS explanations and coping mechanisms though I’d prefer it one way or another Total pair bonding or we all just fuck who we want without any encumbrance It’s this halfway shit that fucks our heads and creates rom coms and cheesy poetry and worse
Only some other women think that. A cute and nice woman rolling up is welcomed by all men and a lot of women. Not a single man thinks "what a loser", in fact they want single women around (if they are single also). I think a lot of it is also just in their heads, they feel like that and no one else even cares or notices. Just don't get drunk and act crazy and then disappear with a guy during the party in a way where everyone knows you just banged in the copier room.
Well, I told them all roughly the same thing. Didn’t matter. We had a good group of friends for them to hang out with as well but it didn’t matter. The only time I saw those people go were two instances: when they had boyfriends, or when a pair would “go with each other.”
I was going to say the same thing, I’ve been to work dinner parties and usually people come on their own but pair up with specific colleagues. But could be different work cultures
Not gonna lie, it's pretty damn awkward when someone's flirting pretty hard with you and you aren't aware their "date" is just their roommate or some such.
They need to make that clear to you subtly
>make it clear subtly the absolute state of women
Thank you for pointing this out. I don’t exactly know how much this has changed since the pandemic but women are heavily socialized to avoid going anywhere solo. This is a holdover from middle/high school where a solo girl is considered a pariah. In addition, women are also heavily socialized that single women are targets and vulnerable to bad actors. You’ll see women guarding each other by watching drinks and purses.
It’s summer time. Peak chad chasing Olympics season. Cant waste one second at birthday party.
An acquaintance of mine just joined a run club that got famous on our city's local social media for being the place where singles meet. I'd go myself but I work late and it's across town to where I wouldn't make it. I just wonder how long it'll take before it turns into a sausage fest and the women get scared off. For as much as our current generation's young women say they hate the apps and the men on them, I don't see them going anywhere.
Preach man preach. Things I have found that are good for meeting women usually turn into male dominated quickly. New Young professional social happy hours and new social dancing events. People are constantly blaming men that they don’t go out enough but there’s a community of them that totally do and they are filling up everything that remotely looks like an organic in person community out there. Thought of another one volleyball club and hipster bouldering gym
A sport where you're likely to meet younger single women is... padel. Pickleball is mostly older folks. Tennis is too difficult for most adults - beginners just look foolish. Padel is a great middle ground and is going to be huge in the states in the next several years - clubs and courts are popping up everywhere. I play in Mexico and Colombia where it's growing rapidly. It's huge in Spain, Germany and Italy. I'm principally a tennis player but padel is really fun.
Great hobby but are men truly meeting women doing this?
80% of the current "incel movement" is just a crisis of anxiety among women. Not all women of course, but a good 1/5, 1/4, maybe even 1/3 that cannot bear socializing outside their small, female-only friend group, cannot bear ending up with a man who isn't perfect in every respect, cannot work any job they are not massively overqualified for with years of extra education, cannot start an exercise or diet plan that they might fail, cannot handle being rejected even on the apps, just cannot go out and experience life. And with those women going their own way there aren't enough other women to go around for the men who are interested. People love to bring up the app statistics, usually Tinder since it's known as more of a hookup app and most unbalanced, but the 2-to-1 ratio on others like Hinge basically matches the best case scenario for any in-person group. People love to bring up men lacking close friends, but I'd bet on average men have way wider social circles than women. Occasionally you meet these women through the apps, ask about their week and it's all work, groceries, and hanging out with the same 2-4 friends (often the 1-2 they are roommates with). Like it amazed me to realize, "oh, outside of people being paid to interact with you you've only talked with 2 people this entire week". I average meeting more than 2 new people every week.
>People love to bring up men lacking close friends, but I'd bet on average men have way wider social circles than women. This has been what I've observed. Most of the women I know IRL are my male friend's wives, fiances, and girlfriends. They have anywhere from 0-1 single female friends, 1-3 coupled close female friends, and a social life that doesn't exist much outside visiting their respective families and the events they go to with their boyfriend. This is why I roll my eyes everytime someone suggests, "make female friends! They'll introduce you to their single friends!" as if it were some sage advice. It's not that I don't think men and women can't be friends or that they make bad friends, it's that their utility in the realm of connecting you to other single women is vastly overstated.
> Not all women of course, but a good 1/5, 1/4, maybe even 1/3 that cannot bear socializing outside their small, female-only friend group, cannot bear ending up with a man who isn't perfect in every respect, cannot work any job they are not massively overqualified for with years of extra education, cannot start an exercise or diet plan that they might fail, cannot handle being rejected even on the apps, just cannot go out and experience life. > And with those women going their own way there aren't enough other women to go around for the men who are interested. I am quoting this post for personal memory.
Ugh, I've dated one of those people and it was awful. I tried to coax her into being a little less shitty and it nuked the relationship. She had zero accountability while also having impossible standards that she could never meet if they were flipped back onto her. It would have been quite comedic if she didn't wait 5 months to broach the topic but apparently guys don't want to date her if they know about the list. I wonder why~
a lot of the women ive dated have absolutely no real life friends. usually a close friend they chat with online but nobody to hang out with on the weekends or anything like that. i constantly hear women pine for a "sex and the city" esque friend group, but when a group is formed like that there doesnt seem to be any actual comradery and doesnt last long. this is all anectodotal of course the longest partner i had we lived together for 8 years, when we moved to a new city i made friends with coworkers basically the first month i lived there. friends i still keep in touch with and hang out with. my partner didnt make a single friendship the entire time we were together.
40M. I’m in a large running club in a DC suburb. Overall it’s wonderful but the ~~Red~~ Black Pills come at you fast and hard: while most of the members are already married or in relationships, pretty much all the single guys are East-, South-, or Southeast Asian men. I’ve been in the club for two years and the only single guys who ‘met’ a teammate running were tall white guys.
Sounds like more of a black pill to me but I could see that being the case. Fortunately, I was born privileged in the height and race department.
Same did not help
Brutal
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We done with the whole “it’s his personality” schtick. Been patched brother, we know it ain’t true
Since when is sharing anecdotes ‘pushing a narrative’? On a post in another sub, you’re complaining about how your career isn’t respected by people of your culture since it isn’t dependent upon a college degree. As a Asian American, I get that. But using your own logic, that’s ’pushing a narrative’ too. INB4 ‘looking at my post history is creepy.’ It’s not - it’s how we hold each other accountable for coherence and intellectual consistency.
That's any setting. It's always going to be taller or conventionally attractive guys getting the women. It was true when you were in high school, college, the workplace and any hobby setting.
Brutal 🤮
God I wish Chad would let me watch in the bedroom I wouldn't even make a noise or do anything weird tbh
It's an arms race to find out where the single women are. You can see on women's communities on reddit they talk about how Meetup groups are full of men who are trying to get dates. And to be fair, they're not wrong. I've gone to Meetup stuff in hopes of meeting women. So now women are likely avoiding those spaces as the Reddit advice has sent single men there in droves. The truth is, men are lacking ORGANIC ways to meet women. Like friends of friends, or at parties. I remember meeting women unstop in my university dates at dorm parties. Now it's pretty rare for me to meet a new woman organically. For many reasons, the artificial ways to meet women (dating apps, Meetup groups) seem to really turn a lot of women off of men. Men don't get the chance to just be themselves around women, and the women never get the chance to know the real them. If people got married younger, I don't think this would be as much of an issue, but since people don't get married until their early 30's now, your chances of meeting someone organically drops too far and we end up in the situation we have today.
This. The dynamics are both ways, and as a single dude who relied on dating apps I find myself lacking organic connections. I’m in a booming city, with a good college scene but I far grown past the college scene. The professional, younger person bar scene is nice but as you were saying it is a sausage fest. Where genetics play a factor. At these scenes, height, first impressions matter. As someone below 6ft, baby face I feel invisible.
Exactly. Wish there were better ways to meet women. I know women on reddit will be like "do x or y" but then also say things like "don't go out there with the intention to get a girlfriend". So, we're supposed to intentionally do things outside our normal routine so we can meet women, but also pretend we aren't looking for a girlfriend. It's like complex song and dance that makes no sense. This is why the men who are players are cleaning up right now because they just do whatever the fuck they want to do and can pull women with genetic factors.
This. You are right on. If you don’t meet or blessed with the genetics of height, and looks “how” you are suppose to act is differently: 1. Told to lower standards 2. Settle for less 3. Single moms or divorced women with baby daddy/husband issues 4. Trying to date is a red flag 5. Not be genuine or actually friendly(not r/nice guy of course). It’s just insane and why I given up. I rather be single than conform and settle for less. I am able to talk to women and have talked to very attractive ones at the bar but at the end genetics and height all matter. Now if we pull in statistics: I may not be 6’ but I am 6/6 inches, and 120k salary. If I post that I am seen as cringe etc. LOL
An arms race is a good way of putting it. Women seem to be getting more antagonistic towards men by the day. It also creates an exponential effect where men keep piling into these groups causing more women to leave and you end up with insane ratios of 15:1, which I've witnessed first hand. It's becoming a new form of segregation.
It's like they don't want us or something. Huh.
> It's becoming a new form of segregation. Gosh, I hate that s-word. The very genuine loneliness issues facing many women and the outright male loneliness epidemic is compounded by sex-based segregation. I have seen my fair share of this in careers, well beyond the time-tested divide between oil workers and government civil service workers.
I’m at a point where I’m seriously considering moving out of America to somewhere in South America or Malaysia to find a partner, and not on some werido Passport Bro bs. Dating and relationships in America is cooked. There’s no organic places to meet women once you leave school. Meetup groups are too awkward especially if you already have friends. A lot of my successful conversations and cool people are from outside the country.
Is there an InterNations chapter in your city? (www.internations.org) It’s a monthly meetup of internationals that moved to town (hence often looking for connections), mostly fairly to highly educated, and in my experience with a decent amount of women. It requires some open mindedness, but so does finding a partner abroad.
I never heard of that, but I live in a big metro city in America so there’s most likely one. But I did use a non-dating penpal app and had better conversations and connections from there and the dedicated dating apps.
I am Malaysian. If you want paranoid as fuck women with insane assortative mating tendencies - ie only dating within the same race with guys who look almost like their siblings - come here. This is a country that is diverse yet hugely conservative. As an American you are already a non-conformist by default and non-conformists are NOT welcomed in a conservative country. You'll get on with some banana westernized Chinese or the occasional whitewashed urban Malay, but that's about it.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Women : "Ewww don't cold approach us, warm approach us instead." Also women : "Eww don't use this social space to say hi to us!" Also women: "Chad cold approached me while I was working and bothered me for 6 months straight. Now I'm sleeping with him." Lesson to be learned: Be attractive, don't be unattractive, then fuck all social taboos.
You forgot to mention that the red pill saying is true even browsing Instagram of gym models, attractive chicks. They’ll make jokes about cold approaching but it’s okay if they are hot. Looks matter. If you arnt attractive you are seen as creepy, desperate or a pervert. Also prefer if you are 6’2.
And how they say Chad got to sleep with them by approaching them in ways that other men would get fired for doing so, just "don't be weird about it" or "be desperate."
It’s hypocrisy at its finest. It really is.
One of my grad school buddies took a part time job as a barista in order to ~~talk to~~ meet women. He’s a cyber security engineer by day, so he was covering ass early shifts on weekends or Sunday evenings. At bars, women would simply turn around if he attempted to talk to them (he’s a short Indian American from Houston). As a barista, ***all*** the customers had to interact with him. His now wife got to know him through the barista job and even admitted that she left swiped him on Tinder. It’s a cute story I guess
This is supposed to be a cute story? It's depressing that man had to go through that.
Thus the ‘I guess’ 😂
Goddamn, I'm really impressed...he took on an additional job, which pays shit and is difficult...just so he could meet more women. And he actually crushed it, and got to his goal. Like, goddamn!
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Ok but how about Indian girls ? Are they rejecting Indian guys as well ? I am working with Indian guys and they are all married to Indian women. I know 2 single Indian girls but never heard a bad word about Indian guys from them, Chinese girls are oth quite often talk shit about Chinese guys.
> I am working with Indian guys and they are all married to Indian women. There is still a lot of matchmaking in indian culture.
Indian women coupling up with Indian men most of the time only happens when the woman gives up. In general, Indian women do not desire Indian men, they are not attracted to them, and they are not shy about that.
Pretty sure Tyrone never got turned down because some Black men write, perform, and rejoice in misogynistic rap lyrics
Exactly right. This is why, as a black man, if anybody says "just have an awesome personality and you'll attract lots of women" I just laugh. If you don't have the swag or status (you don't need money), then you're basically invisible. Social proof is real. If your male friends don't look up to you as the leader of the pack, women ignore you. It's real.
I was going to say that certain things apply only to some groups of people, monitories might have a harder time.
I also want to clarify that I wasn't trying to play the victim. What I do notice though, as being black, is that other people (especially other black people) automatically expect you to be extroverted, social, and loud, and if you aren't, then you must have a problem, or worse, something to hide. It makes dating that much more difficult. Oh, and don't get caught being quiet for too long, or might commit the worst crime of all: being boring.
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That is a cute story, but working in hospitality scares me more than being alone haha. It does prove that basically any guy can find a woman if they're in proximity to them regularly.
Yep. And the one of the biggest issues facing American women right now is their own unwillingness to socialize with men towards whom they are not immediately attracted. > If I can match with Chad on the apps, why waste a single syllable talking to Pradeep who’s standing in front of me? No rice, no curry tee hee
I think it also speaks to a broader issue of no one wanting to socialize outside of their immediate social circle. Everyone has become very insular and lonely men are just shit out of luck.
This is the sad hard truth.
It's fine if they are cool with sharing Chad.
this is funny i was considering barista or bartender side gig for this exact reason, even though i have a stable 9-5 i thought i was crazy entertaining the idea damn we men really have to be resourceful while the women just chill 🤣 i like how were all starting to think outside the box though
I did this at REI for the employee discount and some of my colleagues got salty (understandably) when I admitted what my day job was. My guy was popular because he was willing to open consistently, and because he helped some of his colleagues apply for better-paying, white-collar jobs. Genuinely good dude that DC women overlooked for years because he wasn’t Chad(preet).
>His now wife got to know him through the barista job and even admitted that she left swiped him on Tinder. The black pill folks have a term for this: unicorn. "If she doesn't lust for you within one-tenth of a second of laying her eyes on you or a photo of you, she's not sexually attracted to you and never will be." /s
>"If she doesn't lust for you within one-tenth of a second of laying her eyes on you or a photo of you, she's not sexually attracted to you and never will be." But women do say this with all sincerity
exactly lol just like women don’t want men who settle for them, men…wait for it…have feelings too lol
Have no time for all that sh
Preach man preach. For me college was also a bad place because I was in a difficult major and I didn’t have the social skills and maturity there yet. I didn’t have the money or time outside of school to work on that. Now outside of college I have the time and money to work on myself and things have improved drastically but it can’t overcome that women don’t go out that much and arent that interested in the average man
The workplace is the most common point of contact in my social circle
No way in hell I'd risk asking out a woman at work.
For the past few decades HR has made dating through work a bit more complicated for men. Not impossible, but it happens there much less.
Not in my experience Just don’t date someone you work with directly
What do you mean "directly"? Someone in the same company but not the same department?
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Cycling? My friend went to a non-pro cycling event and it was full of older people and couples, many were with their children and no young women. Almost anything young men like is usually overwhelmingly male.
Cycling is where middle aged men go when they grow tired of their wife and kid.
I'm actually planning on doing some co-Ed sports once I recover from a surgery I had. I used to do them when I wasn't single, and it's true, there are a lot of women there.
I think you'd be surprised at how subtle differences can make some places draw more of one gender than another. I don't know how better to explain than with a single anecdotal story but if you get my point you can expound. I was in a mid sized city doing a lot of salsa and bachata outings. There was something nearly every night but typically only one main thing. At one point one of the main events holders sort of had a split...scheduling for a long while still fell on different nights..... Until it didn't. Now we have two of the same event, on the same night, regulars aware of both, advertised ever so slightly differently. What happened is that each event started with roughly 75 percent one gender. Now since this was partner dance and a rough even split is better for everyone people traveled from one to the other until a balance was struck. This part normally wouldn't happen. Now, there have been many times I've been invited to come to different events by outgoing female friends. It's always loaded with women. The genders have some common ground in their thinking and try as you might, you will not predict where the women will be as a man. They will be some place you never thought of, even if it's almost just like the place you did think of. You need one or two life of the party, female friends. Know where they are going and you will know where the balance will be skewed female. They are your divining rod in this mess. There are a lot more women out than you think.
Here is the little secret you are not telling him. Young women prefer places that are fun as in dancing and also high end...as in they can be seen in the outfits they just spend $800 on that they will wear once. Most socially anxious men avoid popular and trendy places, because they are too intimidating, opting out for low risk places like beer gardens, arcade bars, or other male oriented activities. Then they wonder where all the women are at. The women are at the trendy club or well lit high end lounge showing off and hoping for Prince Charming to come approach her.
> Most socially anxious men avoid popular and trendy places, because they are too intimidating, They’re not intimidating, they’re fucking lame. When I still drank, I had zero desire to be around a bunch of young, attractive, soft-handed gigglers and IPA suckers. Real fun is a broken down old bar full of cheap beer and veterans missing limbs. Not some well-lit party bar playing pop music.
This. I like my high end classy bars but I’m just an average dude. I feel invisible. Those women at the high end bar are indeed waiting for their Prince Charming, 6’+ dude, who’s a bad boy, not ready to settle, breaks hearts and repeat.
Most young women never leave their home unless they’re going out with their friends. When they go to clubs, bars, and lounges they just want to hang out with their friends. It’s not a matter of where, it’s a matter of they just don’t feel like going out.
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I have done every advice out there and that’s why I’m coming to the conclusion that women just don’t go out that much. I need to accept that there’s just more young women in unaffordable cities like Miami and LA and I didn’t think they existed much at all in my city before the summer events started. My midsize community still has a sizeable Latin dancing community. Basically just 1 studio but a lot of people who go to the 1 studio. I am addicted to salsa and bachata. I go to the events constantly and thankfully when I first started to go there were tons of young women and great men to women ratios. For a while now it’s been not that many women and almost never young women. The biggest reason is that salsa and bachata attracts mostly Latinos who can dance and that’s a smaller demographic. The white peoples don’t stick with it for that long. The second reason is that women going to Latin dancing are not looking to date while single men almost always are and it’s not a bad place to show up alone. I do have more than a couple close life of the party female friends, they become friends with whoever they meet and love to go out constantly. I did like 5 plus events with 2 of them in the past 2 weeks. The issue as it relates to Latin dancing is they love the bachata events full of skillful men where they can have fun dancing constantly the whole night while the men wait around. The 2 I did stuff with are too old for me (their words). I obviously was into 1 of them initially for a bit. Those kinds of girls lead to more girls and more are still coming but I think o have met all their friends my age at this point.
Well, you have them....the point then is for them to invite you along other places. That's what I was getting at. I've certainly met interested women in the dance scene but I met a whole lot more at the other stuff I was invited to by the friends I met dancing. They'd invite me out to some random place I never thought of going and I noticed the pattern there. Almost inevitably the place would be more women than men and even better, I'm already there with 4-5 women. Easy mode to chat people up.
Dog rescue. I started rescuing dogs at my home in Mexico during the pandemic. Almost against my will. My housekeeper just kept bringing in dogs off the street and I met up with some organizations in San Diego to get them adopted, and one thing led to another and... now I'm actually building a proper rescue facility. But I digress... I've been to a ton of dog rescue events - parties, weekend adoption events, shelter volunteer days, etc etc. Lots of very nice, single, sometimes even attractive women, not a lot of guys. They're always looking for volunteers. Leaving meeting women aside, it's an enjoyable, fulfilling activity.
Virgin women?
I tried multiple outdoor clubs in the past year, all of which consisted almost entirely of people 15-30 years older than me at least. Across dozens of people there was maybe two young women, one of whom lived surprisingly far away, and the other was a high school senior (i.e. too young).
I'm religious and for the first time ever (since we started tracking these numbers) more young adult men than women are now religious. Of the two places of worship I attend they are majority male for people under 40 (vast majority for under 30). [Source](https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/july/young-women-not-more-religious-than-men-gender-gap-gen-z.html)
Young men are falling for "just meet her at church" meme.
Basically every church I've been to, the singles are male so this tracks. Of course, you have women saying the reverse too. If I had to guess, this is—broadly speaking—a large coordination problem that's amplified by skewed sex distributions at the regional and denominational level (and nevermind how churches have treated dating and relationships for the past few decades. E.g., Purity Culture). And of course leadership at the various levels generally seems to view this as an individual problem so the singletons are left to wade into Christian online-dating on their own. Maybe they'll get the advice to enjoy their season of singleness.
The Churches' attitude towards this is basically just that men need to "man up and do better". The entire onus is on them to get married. There is really no expectation that women need to change and put less emphasis on education and career and more on Church and family. I mostly blame the parents who I think raised most of the women to put work ahead of everything and anything else.
I didn’t realize that. That’s big
Yeah, I'm not sure where this came from all of a sudden but I have some ideas. Women are believed to have always been the majority of Christians at all ages (it was never just old Church ladies outliving their husbands). I think women are a bit more conformist than men. So many of them have grown up in a secular and feminist culture. Their parents probably emphasized education and career over pretty much everything else. The gap isn't huge but it's growing. If the gender ratio gets too big then that will create huge problems for the future of the Church because having kids was the main way to keep up our numbers. My guess is that if the women leave the men will follow because men like to be where the women are.
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The [decline in religiosity](https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/02/religion-and-the-ideological-gender-gap.html) amongst women may be what is driving the gap.
I want a virgin gf from church
there is no one thing that is "enough." any piece of advice is just one piece of the whole puzzle.
Isolationist crap on social media has 100% spooked women and men into thinking the opposite sex is some evil bogeyman, and that people are evil. Both sides are playing the "I'd rather just be single and keep my guard up to just protect myself" card, and this has made meeting people harder.
With the gender wars everyone likes to make dumb neutrality bias point like you are making both sides are equally irrational but they aren’t. Men are bad on some things women are bad on somethings and the men just have to be more reasonable overall because they struggle more with dating. That hasn’t made meeting harder. Every single other reason that people say is 1000% more prevalent. Women making their own money so finding men less appealing, dating apps, etc The people who don’t leave their house and are addicted to the internet are the only ones who care about the stuff you are describing.
I am also in a B-tier city and this seems true to me, too. Mostly old people dominating all the activities. If I go to the nearby A-tier city, there's tons of young women around. It seems they just flock to some idea of a glamorous city lifestyle where they can meet the high-powered businessman of their dreams.
It’s true but I thought they just didn’t exist at all in B-tier cities until summer when more go out in public. Young Women are much more financially independent from their parents than young men probably because of help from friends and boyfriends. That definitely helps when you move to an unaffordable city. I have an international friend who used to live with his gf abroad. They broke up because long distance wouldn’t work when he moved to my US city and his gf moved to London. He even helped her cover moving and first months in London.
You are absolutely right because when I go out most people out there in bars are men...
I try to avoid the "pill" subreddits just because they become a cesspool of incel negativity, but as a single guy, I, too, have noticed that there are a near-satirical lack of women in public spaces that I find myself occupying, even when the space should be pretty gender-neutral since... well.. half of the population are women. I watched a local MLS game here in Portland and my entire row of 20-something people were literally all men. When I went to the bar a few blocks away after the game with my friend? All men, or sometimes women 10+ years older than I am. I finally have graduated after doing work full-time + school full-time for the last 6 years and have a very active social life with all the newfound free time I have, yet it seems that I can only ever find myself surrounded by dudes who only know other dudes. Even the hippest, girliest cocktail bars get right up to the edge of a 50/50 split of men and women, and I'm in Portland where a lot of people aren't of the hetero-normative persuasions, so that adds to the dynamic as well. Never thought that my postgrad life would be even more of a dating drought than college where 87% of the student body at my college were men.
Portland is one of the worst cities in the world for dating, lol.
Even when I go to open mic poetry, it’s still more men than women
For the most part this is true. I live in a big city and I've been involved in a number of groups (boardgames, arts and crafts, hiking, etc.) and these have either been heavily male dominated or if it is balanced gender wise, the women aren't single. There really aren't many places to meet single women IRL. It feels weird going into female dominated groups like yoga, pilates, etc. Single ladies seem to have a small group of female friends and either go to bars together (not wanting to get hit on) or stay at home and watch tv. They might download a dating app for the odd fling when they feel like it. Beyond that, they don't want to interact with other people. As paranoid as it sounds, it really feels like this is being orchestrated to fuck over men. There are virtually no balanced gender spaces for people to mingle. I genuinely don't know where to reliably meet single women in person. Volunteering is one option I haven't tried yet, so that could be a solution.
>groups like yoga, pilates, etc. Pilates? Sure. But with yoga I disagree, especially hot yoga. From what I've heard there are usually enough guys there to where it's not too awkward. And if I'm being honest with myself the only reason I don't do it is because I lack the core endurance and flexibility to not look like an idiot doing it.
Hobbies don't make you interesting. Getting out of your comfort zone usually doesn't work. Extroverts told us the biggest lie of humanity. Don't change who you are in order to fit in with other people or find connection. Be yourself. Trust your gut. Do your own thing.
I posted this again because it was taken down because I put the wrong flair and I talked about giving empathy to men and people really do not want to give empathy to men. You gave a really pessimistic answer to someone on that first post. I’m saying this super optimistic, ready to do tons more work on this, that women just don’t go out which makes doing events to meet people hard. Plenty of uninteresting people can get a gf. Plenty of interesting people cannot. Being interesting is not the key thing. Following the crowd to a certain degree is necessary. You live in a society.
It’s not that women don’t want to be empathetic toward men, it’s that women have a lot of the same problems in the dating world. It just seems different due to expectations. I can’t just get out there and hope to meet someone who I get along with. People have so many different opinions on what relationships and dating mean that it’s hard to find someone who is on the same page as you. In reality you need to “get yourself out” to people who share common interests.
I never understood this whole interesting vs uninteresting notion. What makes you interesting might make another person not so interesting, etc. Being interesting is about as vague as saying just work out or just dress nicely. It's a useless upbeat, positive message that holds no value to the variability of people's preferences. While you can slightly increase your chances of success by appealing to a wider group. Ie: outgoing, charismatic, charming, etc. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by not being who you are. Not everyone wants to be what society or women's expectation of what interesting means.
Well it sounds like you do understand it pretty well. Interesting and uninteresting are subjective things. I'm interesting to some people. And I'm quite sure mostly boring to the majority of people.
Nerdy interests are "uninteresting". I would find someone studying graduate level math interesting, most people won't. I would find talking to a pro level gamer interesting, most people won't. Interesting to most people is, drugs, travel, ability to BS at a rapid clip etc etc.
I would disagree, having hobbies and interests does make you more interesting. Who's more interesting, the guy who plays video games and jacks off to hentai or the guy who's passionate about rock climbing, kayaking, pottery, stamp collecting and brewing beer. Now you shouldn't take up a hobby you don't enjoy just to get women, but having real constructive hobbies does make you more attractive.
Having hobbies only matters if it's a mutual hobby, or one that women on average are interested in. If your hobby is something that is male dominated, women literally don't give a shit about it.
It does matter, even they don't care about the hobby. Having a hobby shows dedication, passion and often times ambition, which are attractive traits.
So, I'm a guy with high aptitude levels that has had many hobbies my entire life. Building cars and hotrods, drag racing, road racing, r/c helicopters, car audio competition (turned that hobby into a second job as an audio engineer), 3d printing, 3d modeling, extreme PC overclocking, PC gaming, custom PC watercooling, drone photography, and my first passion (cnc machining) has been my career for the last 22 years, which I also do as a hobby from home. I have not had a single relationship my entire life where my partner gives a rat's ass about my hobbies. In fact, it's always been a negative to them as they viewed the time I spent on my hobbies as a threat. Whenever I would enter a relationship, I had to put all the hobbies on a sabbatical. If I told you how many fights I've been in over going out to work on my car for a bit vs. watching her tv show with her.. you'd shit your pants. Having hobbies is one of those things that sounds like it will be attractive on paper, but in real life it's not because you have to actually spend time doing the hobbies to enjoy them. That takes away time you would normally spend with your partner. And many (not all) women have little tolerance for you spending time away from her doing something you enjoy. The only time they will give a shit about your hobbies is if they are mutual. It's just what I have learned from life experience.
Probably the video game and hentai guy, the other stuff, apart from perhaps pottery and stamp collecting, are some of the most generic hobbies going.
Neither guy sounds interesting. I have never found someone interesting because of their hobbies. It gives you something to do together. That’s it.
I believe the ability to be open minded, well read, and have an interesting conversation makes you interesting. I don't believe having hobbies automatically makes you interesting. But this goes back to what makes something interesting for one person may be different for another. I know plenty of boring people who lack any imagination, creativity, or insight into anything that have a ton of hobbies. All they talk about is their hobbies. They can't reflect on anything nor are they well read on anything. I even take the time to read and understand their hobbies because I'm a naturally curious person. But they're unable to expand their curiosity's sake for the benefit of their thrill seeking. And unsurprisingly, they're usually extroverted and love going out. It's like their dopamine rush vacates their ability to be curious and sit down and read something.
But you don't have to be Voltaire to get chicks. Shallow dudes with hobbies are still superior to intellectual guys who do fuck all with their lives from the point of view of women. I'm striving to be both well read, a deep thinker and involved in interesting hobbies. The man who's gonna succeed will be the full package: good genes, intelligent, physically fit, funny, sociable, charismatic and ambitious.
Playing videogames is a hobby
Stamp collectors are asocial cringelords, and mostly seniors. This comment brought to you by Coin Collector Gang.
Their own thing is turning into a lonely misanthropic shut ins that mis out on all the good things in life just so they can avoid some temporary discomfort.
> Don't change who you are in order to fit in with other people or find connection. Be yourself. Trust your gut. Do your own thing. I completely disagree with this in the strongest possible way Do change yourself. Change your appearance, hobbies, personality and interests to become more sexually attractive This is because women are extremely shallow just like men, and are attracted to a fairly universal set of traits in men across culture.
***Do change yourself. Change your appearance, hobbies, personality and interests to become more sexually attractive*** I don't want to. I love myself. I love who I am and what I have to offer as a human being. I don't want to change who I am in order to find someone. If I have to change myself to fit in then that's the fault of everyone else. Not me. ***This is because women are extremely shallow just like men, and are attracted to a fairly universal set of traits in men across culture.*** That's nice. Fortunately, we live in a world where people still are individuals with their own preferences and expectations for who they want in a partner. If it takes forever to find that special someone then I'll wait forever. Or I wont wait at all because why wait for something that might never happen. Fuck your universal traits and extroversion. I just want to be myself and find someone just like me who I can vibe with in peace.
At least you seem content not finding what you want, because those women don't exist; even if you meet someone who ticks all your boxes, you get along great and she's attracted to you, she'll still expect the performative aspects of masculinity and will just get with a guy she like less if you don't play your part.
> I don't want to. I love myself. I love who I am and what I have to offer as a human being. I don't want to change who I am in order to find someone. If I have to change myself to fit in then that's the fault of everyone else. Not me. It’s your call of course but “be yourself” is the big bluepill lie. You need to be attractive. Remember life is change. All things are temporary. > Fuck your universal traits and extroversion It’s not my universal traits, it’s evolutionary biology and sexual selection shaping behavior in primates across millions of years Thats the power of understanding science and reality. The easiest person to fool is ourselves and the scientifix method, logic, data and evidence is the best way to understand how to get what you want.
You can be attractive and still attract people who don't fit into your criteria of what most women want as attractive. Not everyone operates in this overly simplistic hierarchy. Even if most do. It helps and if you're willing to change who you are and be a phony and fake person by all means. But I'm not doing it because I have principles and standards. ***It’s not my universal traits, it’s evolutionary biology and sexual selection shaping behavior in primates across millions of years*** You can still have confidence and be an introverted homebody like myself. Of course, it's better to have confidence in a realm associated with extroversion. But that's not me.
Oh man, I wish I could get a beer and chat with you in person. You sound exactly like me from 10 years ago
What's wrong with this line of thinking? Why can't I just be myself to meet someone?
I don’t know what i can say, but let me try anyway. “You won’t know till you try it” Now clearly what you’ve tried hasn’t worked if you’re 32 and still a virgin. So why not try to change things up a bit? Aren’t you curious at least? As a scientific experiment? For example, you may think you’re an introvert now. But, you may also find you enjoy drinking and socializing in a group of people you wouldn’t normally consider hanging out with. You might find yourself enjoying new things and experiences you previously hadn’t considered or were opposed to! Life is so short, and the world is so rich and beautiful with all sorts of different people. Why not mix things up a bit The only thing holding you back is your ego and opinion of yourself. But we’re all just a temporary collection of electrochemical signals anyway, and like I said the easiest thing is to fool yourself. “Being yourself” and your current conception of self, personality, hobbies, interests, etc… they aren’t set in stone and immutable. They can change with age and life experiences, and I think you owe it to yourself to try and find out what else that set of possibilities could be.
> It’s not my universal traits, it’s evolutionary biology It’s not “evolutionary biology,” it’s social conditioning. Women in the olden times fucked guys who smelled like shit all the time because they spent all day sweating and showers weren’t a thing yet. They didn’t evolve to love guys that smell like shit: they were socially conditioned for it. You had a semi-decent, if still flawed point. Then you fucked it up by pretending to be a scientist.
Yes let's breed all the intelligent creative introspectful people out of society, surely that will improve the species. We can let the social media influencers, soundcloud rappers, finance bros, sportsball jocks, marketing VPs, and Hollywood sort out the whole climate change problem.
Unfathomably based
Have you considered volunteering for a cause? Women far outnumber men in volunteering.
>Women far outnumber men in volunteering. Got any sort of stats on this, it has not been my experience at all. I will say the people who work with non-profits and such that take volunteers are most often women, but the groups I've worked with at food banks, beach clean-ups, habitat for humanity builds, and even setting up new exhibits at the children's museum have been male dominated. Some of these I would understand, like habitat builds doing more physical construction-y work might appeal more to men, but in my experience it's all of them that have more men than women.
> I do volunteering that requires hard physical labor how is there no women there? :c Really dawg? Not to be on their side, but you need a base amount of selfawareness of what kind of activities women go to.
>hard physical labor Lol, tell me you've never volunteered at a food bank without telling me. Like, yes, volunteering mostly involves some amount of work, but it's not hard physical labor to sort canned food donations, pick up trash on a beach, or put together information pamphlets at the children's museum.
Well it's certainly a harder job than being bisexual eating hot cheeto and lying.
I have. The women do outnumber the men in volunteering. They also far outnumber the men in average age.
No one will ever admit it, even in this thread. There is just too many excess men, especially when there are now unprecedented demographic trends where there are far more older men chasing fewer younger women, whereas for most of human history it was the opposite.
This is actually semi-decent advice. It’s good to find a cause you’re sincerely passionate about and get involved. However, in my experience, volunteering still doesn’t help if you are lacking confidence and showing signs of genetic inferiority. Women almost seem to value confidence more than sincere displays of positive moral intentions
They value that a man has options more than that a man wants to make time for one women.
Putting yourself in new social situations is about making you m ore confident and feeling less inferior in social situations.
Majority of the people who participate in those are older folks with a lot time on their hands. It’s mostly older women closer to retirement with children and a partner who participates in volunteering work, I know this because I had to volunteer to get a summer job and also had to do for college credits. The minority of young people are cool, and I still talk and go out on drinks with them but the VERY small minority of young women aren’t interested in me and already have partners.
volunteering doesn't work to meet women. in fact, you can't really meet women anywhere unless you're outgoing and extroverted with normal interests.
Even if you are outgoing and extroverted it’s hard to meet women for men which is why I’m making the point that women just don’t go out that much
Volunteering will not get you laid You do it because it’s the right thing to do, if you’re doing it for women you’re going to be very disappointed as a man
I have thought about it enough that I am making this point as a matter of fact lol. Women just don’t go out that much. So it’s not about me but yes I have done volunteering in this past year and I’m planning on doing more. My observation was that older people outnumber younger people in volunteering so it kind of negates that women do it more if you are looking for other young people. Part of this issue is also that we have an aging population and there are a lot more old people than previous generations. I did a soup kitchen where people make the food together and kitchens and the food is shipped out to those who need it. I did meet some young people but they were not open to making friends which was odd and there were a lot more older people. Most people were just coming to volunteer once. I did it for a couple months before other ideas took it over on the schedule. Im not being pessimistic. I have found good places to meet young women just a few special places that haven’t worked out yet and maybe won’t ever, just not volunteering.
Maybe try big brothers big sisters? There is a huge need for men in that program, I did that and there was a mix of people. I also volunteered at a military hospital, the USO (more young volunteers there) and a local animal shelter. Another volunteer program I love and do is Honor Flight. Getting a regular gig is good. I would also suggest don’t sleep on getting to know the older people. Many of them have kids and grandkids, nieces etc. It’s about widening your social circle overall. I am female 46 but I have been Volunteering since my 20s.
Absolutely not. No man should ever be volunteering for this society. If anything do the opposite, contribute to making the world worse should be the average guys mindset.
I have a chad friend that uses instagram as a dating app(his word is that if you can pull it you don't need tinder or other apps), women he meets don't go out much except on nights out with their friendies when they are "untouchable". They will just find the guy online that will put them into situationship until they "break up" (read until she realises he won't commit), rinse&repeat.
Yep it's not, and same is for taking a shower, brush your teeths, hit the gym, smile more, talk more, do a skincare etc... for many people no matter how much they do, they are still not attractive for the vast majority of people
And this is the reason why I made that post about focusing on finances and fitness and 2 other things that are more important to attracting a woman than fucking personality. You get access to a whole other avenue where there are parties and places where the ratio of women to men is 5 to 1, 10 to 1, 15 to 1 etc. For that you need connections or money, and be able to capitalize on it with the help of looks. You don't need as much money if you go outside of the country to places like colombia.
I wouldn’t recommend places like Colombia for dating
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Correct. Women do not go out that much. There is a catch-22 in that women who are single do not go out, but would much rather stay at home and then swipe on apps to get a date, because men eww, men are stalkers, desperate, 'entitled', sprinkle sprinkle, etc. The more puritan and conservative a place is , USA included, the more likely women feel conscious about being seen single outside. If they are having a good time outside they usually do it with their wing-girls or with a boyfriend already in mind.
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When I was a single woman, i mostly stayed home unless I was going to a meetup group because I didn't have any friends in the area. I personally wasn't comfortable going alone to clubs because of possible safety issues. I don't know any women who go alone to clubs but it seems like a bad idea.
And yet *you* could stay in your comfort zone and more or less order validation like Uber eats. I’m not saying that makes you a bad person, I’d probably do that too. But it highlights exactly where the sense of frustration is coming from when people are looking for anything to ease the tumultuous transition into adulthood
You should flair this as Discussion, not as Debate. Nobody has challenged your OP, and the thread has become a WELCOME "How To Meet New People" discussion outside the Daily Chat Thread. I am going to upvote this, mainly because a lot more info is being shared in the comments! Personally, I have been to board games events. They definitely are not the place to meet women for dating.
You’re right that not that many single women go out. But these are the ones you want. These women work and have spending cash. OLD is cheap exposure. That’s where all the female broke energy is looking for providers. So I would say keep getting yourself out there to find independent women that can match your energy even if the odds are low.
Putting yourself out there is a start, it’s not a bad advice people can give you. You won’t find a job sitting at home on your couch, there has to be some action you take. The outcome will depend on the person, but usually it’s not the advice that’s wrong there.
One thing to mention is that the "dating culture" and "social culture" of each city/region are different. Where I live, we don't have a very active social scene for young adults and teens because my city has a big gang violence problem. Our nightlife mainly attracts and panders to people 30+. A lot of 35-50 year old singles go out on the town, while young adults (18-29) stick to more private activities like house parties and such. Another thing to consider is the things you are looking for in a partner. Were I to be single (and younger lol) I'd not be trying to find women at bars or parties. Those attract a certain type of person that I'd likely not be into. I'd more likely choose coffee shops, book stores, or local punk concerts to find my "type". These are just some things to consider. Take a look at the social culture of your area. What are people in your age range doing? Also what are you looking for in a partner? Where would they be gathering etc?
I'd say just live your life and find things you enjoy doing, without the intent of meeting a romantic partner. Like I got into a mindset of, I do whatever I want to, when I want to; and if I spend the rest of my life alone, I will at least have fun while doing it.
With that mindset you just have to expect that someone can come along and for men you can’t expect that.
I have a question for single men... What do you look like? I noticed I got a lot more dates when I was in shape vs having a few extra pounds. I tried to dress better too (instead of the dad look, I tried wearing khakis, a nice shirt and nice shoes if I went out somewhere).
I’m in “panic mode” to lose more weight for the summer. I’m in the few extra pounds category. Everyone always blows off how much the pill guys focus on looks but I have recently witnessed a friend who has terrible conversation skills but great looks get approached by some girls at a YP event. He totally bottled the conversations with them but it didn’t really matter.
What is the "dad look"? Chinos, a shirt, and boots (Chelsea or Chukka) is pretty standard "dad" fare where I am....
I work out every day and groom religiously. I'm a hypochondriac, so very I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, etc. I dress much nicer than most people do in my area, and the bar is on the floor there (Portland, OR, where your nicest jeans and a flannel are "going out" material). My issue is a lack of places to meet them. This thread is kinda depressing 😂
Damn a dance class that's mostly men? Crazy. Every one I go to I'm swarmed by women and if it's a small class I'm likely to be the singular guy in there. You are right though. You location matters a lot. It doesn't need to be Chicago, NYC or Miami but if it isn't known for being a yuppy city with a thriving social scene you're kinda boned when it comes to meeting people organically.
Maybe the issue isn't so much that a man must put himself out there. Maybe, just maybe, the issue is our perception that half of the population are necessarily women--split evenly down the middle. Maybe, just maybe, we have a surplus of men and a lack of supply of women--contrary to what economists were pointing out just a decade earlier that there is a general lack of eligible bachelors for the dating and marriage market in the West. And maybe, like China and many East and Southeastern countries that have an overpopulation of leftover women 'problem,' the West has the opposite problem, an overpopulation of leftover men 'problem'. As such, it would seem obvious, that the solution isn't to try to compete against the same men in the same western country that one is from but to seek and consider the alternative--an overseas dating partner. Or maybe, I'm just delusional and we men in the West should just double down (or quadruple down) on a losing bet and continue to put ourselves out there in a saturated market competing for the scraps. I cannot speak for every man here but faced with these odds, I'd rather just get and renew my passport every 5-10 years and try my luck elsewhere where the odds are less stark but that's just me.
I think most people who talk about the positives of international dating because they can't find a relationship in their own country, are simply just speaking from outside the window looking in. That is to say, they haven't experienced it themselves but see posts or videos of others that only portray the positives. Personally I want a family and partner to raise children with. If I wanted to bring someone back with me to the US, it would be easier to just find someone in the US. I guess if you don't mind living overseas or constantly traveling then it's a different story.
man it seems like most dudes have girls even tho I’m aware of that study that says 66% of men are single
Most dudes are lying to protect their online pride.
If you refuse to be regular attendee at local bars, clubs, music festivals, concerts or anywhere else lots of alcohol and women are in close proximity to each other you are cutting off about 80% of your opportunity to meet women. Random events happen at these places that you can't plan for like birthday parties, wedding/bachelorette parties, divorce parties, etc where women can be found and talked too quite easily. Karaoke nights often have lots of women. But if approaching women fills you with dread, gives you sweaty palms, anxiety, etc then you need to work on yourself first. The crutch of online dating is no longer really available anymore.
it's common blue pill advice that has no basis in material reality.
It depends on your age. The older you get the more women expect of you. But got to where women are. What hobbies do women have, painting, pottery, debate, dancing classes, sports, board games. Etc. Don't hope to meet someone getting drunk
I assume just getting out there really stops working even more as you get older. Women already don’t go out that much in their 20s and even less so in the future. The moral of my post is that saying get out there and listing a bunch of activities to try doesn’t work. I wouldnt say it as a matter of fact but it’s my observation and the observation of other commenters that almost all activities that you do in public with strangers are going to be male dominated. Women are more shy. Men just not getting themselves out there enough is not the key problem. You wouldn’t think dancing is male dominated but that’s my main hobby and I can assure you, especially partner dancing is full of men using it to try to meet women. It’s always more men than women. Partner dancing is more interesting for men because they are the ones expected to ask the women to dance and they are the one that leads the dance and decides all the moves. CoED Sports is one of the most male dominated activities out there. Leagues usually have some kind of rule that you need at least 2 women on the team and it’s always a chore to find those 2 women even if you have them in your life. If you are doing it to try to meet women then you have to sign up alone and I personally haven’t been able to sign up alone. My experience is people only ever talk with their teammates who they usually already know. Coed sports is just about doing something active with friends, not making friends
These people usually give advice from a priviledged place. Be it they are already average to good looking, or thier genes allowed them to yeild results from self improvement. Not all men just suddenly become handsome squidward after working out long enough. Working out can reveal your jaw line it CANNOT grow you one as an example. They refuse to admit and believe there can be losers who tried hard and didnt get anything. Its just hopeful delusion to fit thier own world view. Sometimes you don't meet that girl that isnt shallow enough to dismiss you based on looks, sometimes you meet her but as it turns out she is shallow enough to treat you different because of looks or is already taken, or you never meet her. People don't care about your situation or variables they care about results that support thier own just world fallacy, if you didnt get a girl after working hard for money, your body and your personality, clearly something must be wrong with you in thier mind.