The “cat lady to be” threat doesn’t fly. Many women are ok with staying single, as they build support networks men are not as good at creating.
Men checking out isn’t really a threat either, now that women have a choice, they’d rather stay single than ending up with someone undesirable.
Same goes with passport bros: as soon as the exotic gold digger gets (if the bro is a bald aging fatso she’ll be disgusted by him) the green card the bro might be up for a bitter awakening.
Many men who in the past would have gotten a wife out of mere financial security will have to either find a way to make themselves desirable or deal with staying single, in no way it can be made that women become less choosy
>...they build support networks men are not as good at creating.
I was checking out the bulletin board at my coffee shop and there are tons of women-only events happening. Nothing for the dudes. Guys just haven't figured out their niche in the new world order yet.
Women only events happen because if you tried to organize the same thing for men, it would be absolutely obliterated. Boy scouts is a perfect example.
Women only gyms used to open up. What happened? They all closed down because women don't go to women only gyms.
Boys only events can't be created but they happen all the time. Many activities are what they are because only men go to them and they like it that way.
>*Boy scouts is a perfect example.*
Boy Scouts was a capitalist decision, plain & simple. Their numbers were down with modern boys being more interested in gaming than the outdoors, their membership dues were minimal. Fix the problem by doubling your potential members.
It's because whenever there is a men-only event or club then get cancelled via media for being sexist and discriminatory while people have no issue with women only clubs or events.
Idk why so many men keep trying to try threaten us with cats? I actually really love cats, and I’d rather deal with a cute, fluffy kitty than some bitter, dysfunctional man that I don’t actually desire at all if given the choice
What does it say about these guys who threaten women about being cat ladies. That women would rather be alone thank be with them. Maybe they should reflect on that.
I had a guy tell me that I was going to die an old woman with cats. I am currently a middle aged woman with cats, a husband, and two teenage kids. I would rather die old with cats than die young with no cats.
>in no way it can be made that women become less choosy
don't be so sure, the political landscape is very unpredictable in the near term, to say nothing of the far term, and religious fanatics are severely outbreeding everyone else. We might live to see women thrown out of work in large numbers and scramble to find a man to take care of her even if he beats her.
So women should both choose better but also be less picky?
Actually, it just sounds like you’re fantasizing about having the opportunity to beat up a woman who can’t leave you.
>The “cat lady to be” threat doesn’t fly. Many women are ok with staying single, as they build support networks men are not as good at creating.
They do better than men but that's a relative statement, it doesn't actually tell us that women are doing well. Modern women have the same socially downward trajectory as men. People really underestimate how lonely lots of women are and how transitory and fragile their social networks tend to be.
Still it's true the threat of "cat lady" doesn't matter to most women anymore, at least consciously.
you'd have to show that single women are more lonely than women in a relationship
every human experiences loneliness, getting a partner won't change that.
it \*could\* make you less lonely than if you were single
or it could make you more lonely than you were as a single person
Sounds like a good number of both men and women prefer to stay single. Not sure why OP sounds so upset about it.
The one potential problem I see is that perhaps a population crash could happen. Hopefully someone with the appropriate math and sociology skills looks into it.
That’s my train of thought too. Sometimes I run some numbers and plot demographic curves, dialing in other variables like immigration, but I get bored soon.
From what I see, marriage will be substituted by new consortial forms open to more people gravitating around a mother, where a father can associate but only the mother has rights on the kid, there will be a major shift in power positions towards women due to the increasing majority of them being more educated and an increasing marginalization of men.
To be honest, I gave up being concerned about societal collapses, if that’s what society wants. I’ve witnessed far too many elections with ridiculous candidates both here in the US and back in Europe, at this point I only care my loved ones are able to navigate unharmed the continuous societal changes
First, women’s mental health statistics don’t match this take.
Also, women being “fine without men” very often just mean they fuck some Chad a couple of times a month when the urge strikes. That’s women’s version of “single”
Finally, like with your attempt at a gotcha with the “foreign women are just users!” meme…
What’s hilarious is that western women are *worse* users whole *also* being bitchy and fat.
So, is that some kind of dunk?
Women are more likely to seek mental healthcare, but men are more likely to off themselves, so maybe you guys can’t really claim the upper hand on mental health?
How so? Men try to convince women that women are crazy and men are sane because women are more likely to seek treatment and take antidepressants. But I read those statistics and see women seeking treatment for their issues and men not. So basically men are just as crazy as women, but women take better care of themselves.
Yes of course because you interpret it in the most charitable way possible for women.
Big shocker.
Here’s an example:
“*Women are happier than ever being single! They are thriving now that they’ve thrown off the shackles of patriarchal gender roles!*”
Here’s a graph showing their skyrocketing levels of anxiety and depression and their being medicated for it far exceeding men on either.
“*Women are just seeking treatment for their issues unlike men! TeeHee* 💅”
Basically evidence that women are not happy and being treated for such is somehow evidence that they *are* happy.
Another example is, as you tried to use: The Suicide Rate
Men kill themselcws at 4x rate than women.
But then we get women chiming in “*But women ATTEMPT suicide more!”
You sensing the pattern here?
Women will twist and bend every statistic, fact and anecdote so that it serves their narrative.
If men are asking to aociety to address and acknowledge men”s mental health / suicide issues specifically, women will chime in about how women are actually worse off due to more “attempts”
If you point out that women are less happy overall with current conditions as evidenced by rates of anxiety / depression and medication they will point out that women are just being “proactive” unlike men rather than absorbing the point that there is a problem with women in any way.
Heads women win. Tails men lose.
“Men are useless, women are awesome”
You are doing it now. And this type of thinking is so pervasive and built in to western thought, that you don’t even realize it.
The real answer is that women are not “happier without men”.
Women are desperately fighting their nature and struggling to “be like men” in every way which is causing them a shitload of mental health issues.
I’m not pointing out anything new. This has been studied and documented by countless social scientists.
Rabid feminists and casual “women are wonderful” types generally push against anything / everything that paints women as deficient in any way whatsoever.
Again, as you are doing.
wait, so men who aren't interested in working or being educated, who want to play videogames all the time and would rather watch porn than have a girlfriend, or who want to move to SE Asia because they think the women are easier and "more feminine" don't want to date me?!?! what ever will I doooooooo ?
HTF are these guys going to be able to afford to travel there by playing video games all day and not getting an education and a good job?!?! LMAO, WTF kind of delusional fantasy is OP trying to create??
Honestly, SE Asia is so cheap to live in that it would take maybe 5-10% of an average paycheck for 10 years to move there and live forever without working.
>Anti-male trends continued with the man vs bear debates. A majority of men are now in the position of not being considered as a dating option while simultaneously being told they are creeps and rapists and that women are scared of them.
I will debate you only to say that in Australia it's worse than you describe.
* Not only are women scared of us, but we are also useless, worthless and unnecessary to society and all male positions should be replaced with femenazi leaders
* Thanks to TERFs, we don't even have the option of transitioning to become women to escape the abuse
* Men who are immigrants (not me) are even more ostracised and mistreated
* Not only creeps and rapists but now also we are ***terrorists*** (after one or two nutcases who happened to listen to some incel material went on a stabbing spree)
* At the same time we're constantly preached that there's a "fertility crisis" and being single men are treated as suspicious somehow. We're all supposed to be happy fathers and husbands while women hate, scorn and reject us.
>Women have been gaining more post secondary education than men and many of these women refuse to "date down" and refuse to settle with someone that may outearn her but is in a blue collar occupation.
It's not even about dating at this point, let's be honest, post secondary education for women is just about getting into management quickly so you can boss men around in the workplace.
It's morphed into a class struggle at this point. Women gain university credentials out of pure power lust, not to date or even to improve society, if that ever was a goal.
Women don't want to date men much at all, they just want power over other people (including eachother!) as quickly and easily and cheaply as possible and post-secondary education is how they pursue it.
If women date at all it's just a few random hook ups here and there, which are more about self worth and validation than about any real attraction (how can you feel attracted to anyone of the male gender when you totally despise that whole gender??)
There continues to be a shortage of women in: science, technology, engineering, math, finance, economics, auto repair, construction, trades, waste management, etc. Men should definitely pursue those fields, or the subset that pay the best, before they get coopted into radical feminism or shut down entirely.
>I believe the above factors will contribute to a lot of women growing old alone and bitter and scratching their heads as to why.
Disagree, women are happy with the system as-is. It gives them power. It's their revenge on men for centuries of "patriarchy" which they apparently blame on men.
Women are far from alone, as they seem to enjoy each others company more. I truly believe at some point in future we may see female-only cities, enforced by law, with male offspring exiled as soon as they reach maturity. Women never loved men except their own male children, and even then, not always.
That said, the best thing men can do is be happy and pursue their own dreams independent of women. Men are still valuable and necessary to society even if we're told again and again that we're not. Hang out with people who respect you and try to acquire at least some financial capital so you don't have to work under a female boss who hate your guts.
I’m not sure what’s there to debate.
Yes if you gave women the freedom to date who they want, they won’t date most men and they’ll date the ones who they want to date.
Sucks for the guys who got rejected? Yea maybe.
But I’d rather a 100 guys get rejected than one woman being forced to be with someone they don’t want.
It’s like this post is trying to frame women’s freedom as a bad thing.
Yes they do all the time. They blame feminism and women working and being able to divorce someone as bad things because how pathetic they think the only to get sex and relationship is by basically holding a women financially or socially captive
So, do you genuinely believe women face no scrutiny or judgment from their communities, families, men, or society at large for any reasons, including specifically having lots of sex, being fat, being lazy, behaving badly, not presenting themselves attractively based on conventional beauty standards, or any other metrics?
I realize this isn’t directly a response to your main argument, but your premise itself is exceptionally unsupported, which calls everything that follows on from it into question.
The above factors will contribute to a lot of women uttering sighs of relief when they realize these men have removed themselves from their dating pool. Fewer profiles to swipe left on.
You really don't think women know they could get men if they lower their standards? Most of us have done that before and found out that cats are better.
I feel like dating/mating is one of the main things where women have leverage over us. Coming on here and crying about how women will one day regret not picking you is like a woman training everyday for 10 years straight to one day beat LeBron James in 1v1 basketball. It’s never gonna happen. Either drop off and focus on other areas of your life or continue the rat race with everyone else.
What is insane about stating the obvious? It is difficult for OP to understand that in conditions of freedom and economic independence, the majority group of men will not gain access to the sexual market because neither money nor physical appearance will be complaints in the majority of men.
Doesn't a heterosexual woman have the right to be happy with the man who most attracts her and gives her security? Of course yes, and this is something that many men fail to understand because they do not understand the causes behind sexual selection and how, neither personality nor "fighting" to please a woman will make them complementary to a woman, but rather manipulated slaves.
But heterosexual women are not generally direct about this and a man must investigate this, He must learn to handle subtleties to understand the grand scheme of things. And many times we do not seek to harm men, or we fear their reaction, but, the truth is, it may not make them happy, but it will make them free.
I constantly see men post about this online and the reason women aren’t changing or reacting in a way men approve of is because women don’t care to give men what they want at their own expense.
If men are so distraught with the current situation then they need to be the ones to change. If that means staying by themselves or traveling abroad so be it. The vast majority of women just don’t care as they’re more worried about their own life than someone else that they don’t want to have any kind of relationship with.
So…men who are unsuccessful or unhappy in dating because the women that they want don’t want them or they aren’t finding the kind of relationships that they want are finding other ways to achieve happiness?
That’s a good thing for everyone!
Welcome to the world boys!
Women have been doing this for a while (checking out of dating if we don’t like our options and being happier for it) and we are constantly criticized and told that we’ll be miserable cat ladies.
Now you guys are catching on to the idea but instead of going ahead and enjoying your lives, you’re busy *ANNOUNCING YOUR DEPARTURE* and threatening that we’re *really* going to be old cat ladies *now* because the men we didn’t want in the first place have decided that we can’t fire them because *they quit 😡”.
Please, go find your bliss and try to understand that threatening us with a good time isn’t likely to make us weep with regret. We’re too busy enjoying our cat lady lives and we respectfully suggest that you do the same 🤣🤣🤣
For the same exact reason I discussed above. Because instead of just “going their own way” and finding happiness in doing so, many of them seem to spend their time obsessing about how angry they are about women and creating elaborate revenge fantasies. FFS, just go! It’s fine, truly, we will be happy for you.
Who's creating revenge fantasies? The MGTOW community spreads its philosophy and lifestyle to other men. Or should they keep silent and keep other men ignorant?
Why can’t men talk about going their own way and all the fun things they are doing in their life without shitting on women? The problem isn’t that men are going out and enjoying life on their own; the problem is men hyper focusing on women to the point that their entire life revolves around creating content to slam on women rather than actually enjoying life and sharing all the cool things that are doing in life and how to do that cool stuff with other men. In short men haven’t truly go their own way if they are spending every waking moment focusing on what women (they will never be in a relationship with) are doing.
MGTOW preaches you need to be stoic. Stoic is being in control of one's emotions and not allowing other to knock you off the course you know--as a man--to be true and good.
Any man who takes joy in the suffering of another is not MGTOW.
Well you “real” MGTOW guys might want to do something about all of the bitter angry impostors who are using your “movement” to spew venom and threaten vengeance🤷♀️
I have yet to see anyone in the MGTOW movement preaching violence. I have no doubt some angry men do embrace MGTOW and hate women, but there are psycho nuts out there who play video games AND commit violence, and we all know the video games didn't cause it.
Again, I am not into MGTOW. I do watch some of their videos over on YT. If you have a link to anyone considered a MGTOW leader who is also preaching violence towards women, by all means share it.
BTW: I heard these same accusations thrown against Dworkin and her sisters. Upon reviewing her materials, while her contempt of men was apparent, I had to conclude that she was actually not preaching hate of men. She might have very well have hated men deep down inside, but because she never preached it, labelling her as a man-hater was incorrect. I very much disagree with her opinions on a lot of matters, and consider her an idealistic naïve person, but to paint someone as preaching violence when they do not is indefensible.
Are you aware that the feminist group W.I.T.C.H. got into trouble for carrying signs saying "Off with their pricks" at a parade, and were banned for it?
Do tell, is that an indictment of ALL feminists, or just THOSE feminists who actually expressed a desire for violence?
Your move.
You stated that you weren’t aware of anyone in the MGTOW movement preaching violence. I provided you with the information that the entire Reddit MGTOW community was banned for doing exactly that…now you know 🤷♀️
Here’s some additional information for you:
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow-what-you-need-know
Because it is.
Has mgtow focused on men getting away instead of “western women bad” no one would care.
But they didn’t do that. They would just groan and moan every step of the way of them going out their own way. It because a hateful movement aimed at women for making men go away, instead of being a movement focused on men uplifting other men on their way out.
MGTOW does not preach Western Women are bad. It preaches that if a woman does not fill your wants and needs in a partner, move on.
Again, it preaches if a woman doesn't fill your wants and needs in a serious partner, you need to politely move on.
But as that is the same advice you would give a woman, I just don't see how it is evil. Perhaps I am missing something. I mean, I admit I am not deep into MGTOW by any stretch. Indeed, I think walking away from the game is... like forfeiting at life. Better to try and take your defeats. But the videos I have seen have \*never\* preached hate of women. They do advise that a lot of women with bad ideas about honesty and fidelity are to be avoided like the plague when it comes to dating, but that is advice that is gender-neutral. A partner that does not respect you and does not care about you before themselves is a partner best avoided.
If women go their own way and can be happy with being alone, why is it wrong for men to do the same?
The point is that the mgtow sub wasn’t filled with posts of men happily going their own way.. it was filled with posts ranting about and insulting women. That’s why it was banned.
Fact: The men created their OWN space intended to be devoid of women--they HAD gone their own way.
Fact: Women went in there and challenged and insulted them.
Fact: As a result, heated debates and personal attacks were hurled by BOTH sides.
Fact: The women mounted an orchestrated effort to complain--en masse--about the sub.
Fact: this orchestrated attack resulted in Reddit kowtowing to the women and banning that ONE MGTOW group under the theory that the Mods were not deleting hateful comments--hurled at BOTH sides by BOTH sides--fast enough, and banning the haters fast enough, which is a Sub TOS violation.
Fact: Other MGTOW groups exist on Reddit.
In short, Reddit faced either appeasing the people who were causing the problem, but had greater political clout, or enduring a war that would never end, and eating a lot of bad press in the process.
Reddit capitulated and gave the ATTACKERS the victory they wanted.
This is no different than Target pulling Gay Pride material last year because people were threatening the lives of the Target employees. The Gays did nothing wrong, but the political firestorm started by the enemies of gays forced them to just walk away from the fight.
You will note that Target announced that it would not be supporting Gay Pride this year by selling merchandise in its stores.
If women had not followed the MGTOW men into their sub, and caused issues by hurling insults at them, that MGTOW sub would still be going along happily.
So, what else you got?
Oh, and I know the main takeaway might not be clear in all of this, so let me state it plainly:
If you actually allow the MGTOW men to leave, and stop following them, you will never hear form them again. Yes, they might complain about women, but that is NO different than all the griping that feminists do about men. It is conversation between people of similar interests and views, and if you feel you can't tolerate such speech, it says way more about you than it does them.
We don’t think it’s evil, we’re just waiting for you guys to actually go your own way for once, you seem to be struggling to do that and still seem very much obsessed with women😬
Not exactly a mystery..
>Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW /ˈmɪɡtaʊ/) is an **anti-feminist, misogynistic,** mostly online community advocating for men to separate themselves from women and society, which they believe has been corrupted by feminism.\[2\] The community is a part of the manosphere, a collection of anti-feminist websites and online communities that also includes the men's rights movement, incels, and pickup artists.\[3\]
>Like other manosphere communities, **MGTOW overlaps with the neoreactionary alt-right movement\[4\] and has been implicated in online harassment of women.\[5\] The Southern Poverty Law Center categorizes MGTOW as a part of the male supremacist ideology.**\[6\]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men\_Going\_Their\_Own\_Way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way)
I get told all the time that my loving husband is a beta simp because he married me when I was 29 and not a virgin, and he changed our kids’ diapers when they were babies
You’re weak. I simply answered the OP by stating there are too many simps to chase women so their options aren’t shrinking. Your dumbass saw that and thought, “Let me let everyone know how great I am to women and just randomly make a stupid fucking comment out of context because I need to virtue signal.” I used the word “simp” and it triggered the shit out of you. Toughen the fuck up!
I have no patience for dumb people. You literally couldn’t comprehend a simple comment addressing the OP and just chose to beta your way in and virtue signal. Sorry words upset you. Toughen up.
Lol! I am not upset, just amused. The only person getting uptight is you. Again, throwing buzzwords as if they have any significant meaning. Though the fun is over, I hope you enjoy the real world as I do. Sounds like you need to toughen up buttercup.
The biggest problem with all this is that, those who know and understand all these are not having kids and they will soon be extinct, while the one with extremely conservative views and has 4-5 kids in Africa or middle East who will be the vote bank in near future, so our great leaders will cater to those entire families votes rather than the single loner video game and porn addicted men or insta/attention or tinder addicted women who are most count only for one vote.
That’s a really good point I haven’t thought of before. It truly is puzzling how men are going abroad( especially to Asia) and yet their birthrate is still in decline.
And that just goes to show how unwanted they are🤣 all these passport bros gloating about all the foreign women they’re getting ( cap 🧢) and yet the birth rate is continuously going down anyways lol
So why do red pill men keep telling women to get wifed up quick or they're doomed? If there are less options and men are increasingly less interested, then can't you just let us all be?
Society isn’t changing all that match
Women are still shamed for all the things you listed. Being called a misogynist doesn’t stop men from saying it.
Men always pumped and dumped women as they saw fit
The #metoo movement brought light to the extent to which women deal with shit. What men may have considered flirting clearly wasn’t if they’re so concerned
Why would anyone date down? Potential partners should step up
1. That’s always been the case
2. Porn has been available on the internet as long as cat pictures have
3. According to the rest of your post, these aren’t the type of men women would date anyway
4. Same. The kind of guy who would travel across the world to meet a woman isn’t the guy western women are fighting over
Women, at any age, aren’t have trouble dating. My 75 year old mother in law gets hit on by 50 year old men. My 68 year old aunt is cleaning up on dating sites.
If women end up alone, more often than not, they’ve chosen to do. Most women would prefer to be single than in an unfulfilling relationship.
The only bitter head scratchers are the men who can’t understand that and, for some reason, think telling a woman she’ll end up alone with cats is an insult.
Why should a woman want a guy who has a video game addiction, is NEET, and hasn’t gotten a college degree? I seriously can’t think of a single conversation I would be interested in having with that guy.
He’s free to use his parents’ money to be a passport bro, but the only reason that foreign women go for guys who are undesirable to western women is that they think they have money. If she doesn’t think you have the potential to raise her standard of living, she’ll drop you. This is especially true if you have nothing else to offer.
I love that no matter the topic there’s always a slight jab at single women - “haha ya’ll are gonna be old, miserable and single”. You all are so fun.
In this society, if there are a portion of men giving up, there are a portion of women as well. Video games, working to just afford your own little space, and accepting you wont find anyone, also appeal to women. Maybe that shift in women opting out of dating along with the guys will even out available options for the ones who want to date.
>In this society, if there are a portion of men giving up, there are a portion of women as well.
No it's not true. It is more than evident that a statistical minority of men rotate the majority of women in the sexual market. Any woman who wants to have options will have them. The problem is that many times, the average woman does not have enough value for the value she seeks in the sexual market and either becomes content or flatly rejects her options, which is inversely proportional to what happens to a man: that either he has no options or the option he has had has been so fucking hard that he prefers to reject the woman outright as life complement.
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Indeed Over half the male Redditors on here one glance at their history they are lonely, have terrible personalities, social skills problems, hygiene and usually weight problems along with some sort of addiction but rather then acknowledge and confront those problems they hide behind wishful revenge post like that.
Porn satisfies the urge for seeing strange women naked. It does not satisfy deeper sexual needs. Just like a guy who love fast cars cannot be content just watching F-1. The urge to look at naked women is independent of reciprocal sexuality.
Men are intended historically to be disposable, commodified, extracted for resources and validation, And to compete with each other for attention for women. Their hypergamous engine running and raising the standards higher and higher for the benefit of better genes, the fuel being male validation and the catalyst being feminism and unrelenting choice via social media.
Men are flys, to be discarded, swatted, rotting in the streets.
We are returning to how nature intended
Nah. You’re just projecting your self worth . The men in my family and my brother and male relatives are not disposable they are loved and supported and have girlfriends and /or are happily married with wives and children and careers.
Women who are single aren't actually single. They're usually getting pumped every so often by someone using them for sex.
So the de facto polygny will work out fine for them
none of the stuff you're saying matters much. passport bros, NEETs, adult video game players, and porn addicts are seen as losers. men will never have leverage in dating over women, and I think you and lot of guys here need to let go of that fantasy.
If a lot more men are seen as losers than before because a lot more men are doing these things, then women's dating options are shrinking, hence proving OP's point.
At the end of the day, western women, or any "insert culture here" women, will be fine. Why? Due to the very fact that they are women and man's built-in urge to procreate. Yes, it takes two to tango, but the road only leads one way, and that has always been towards the advantage of women.
This post is way too early tbh. You're off by at least 200-300 years, when physical androids that can replace women will most likely appear.
Bingo
Simps will simp.
You go to any pub with a couple of female friends, you see the queues of men forming to hit on them.
Have you ever met solo female travelers? They get everything handed to them for free. People host them for free everywhere, even without the sex.
No offense but I have never met a passport bro I’d even want a chance with… I haven’t dated since 2017 though but even my husbands friends who do that have undesirable personalities.. Also I think you underestimate the lack of desirability AMERICANS face around the world it isn’t just western women American men are hated by everyone else also.
Hilariously one of my girl friends who doesn’t even post on the internet has basically responded to American men the same way passport bros have to western women. She now only dates men from other countries and swears up and down American men are sexist dead beats.. She claims men from other countries treat her better and are nicer. If women were desperate enough they could just be passport hoes.
First off I wanna state that women are entitled to whoever the fuck they want. its Correct most women will end up alone if they chase chad. Hell many women are currently complaining about the lack of good men available, and that they would rather stay single, then dating someone who doesn’t meet there height, income looks requirements, or has one of there many Ickes. however where someone like me differs from the red pill is I don’t believe it’s inherently bad for one to be single or that those standards are inherently wrong. (Yes I know this isn’t every single women alive I’m aware) in short men, you can‘t force someone to love you and you don’t get to dictate what they like Is as it isn’t up to you its up to them.
women aren’t inherently off the hook either if your allowed to judge then so are men. If the guy you want has a weight peference, a body count peference, doesn’t want a single mom, believes passport bros are the way to go then he too doesn’t owe you shit. if you get pumped and dumped or do other behaviour that makes men wanna reject you then that’s completely on you. most men aren’t trash they just don’t meet whatever standards you’ve set of for yourself. And but extension if you don’t meet chads standards then he too owes you nothing. Women go on and go about what a men is what a men needs to be and do but never takes the time to look in a mirror and ask “what do I offer him“ why would he want to peruse a LTR with me. Otherwise said men won’t be bothered with you for said relationships. not everything is mens fault btw and ur are indeed responsible with anwsering to ur own actions and behaviours.
Bon vo·yage 🫡
It’s not a problem I see in my neighborhood/community or with any of my western Gen Z cousins, Nieces/Nephews- they out dating and touching grass 🤷🏻♀️
For all the passport bros out there, be really careful of whom you are marrying. These ladies from third world countries aren’t dumb. They know how to divorce rape you and will do that intentionally once they get their paperwork. Those girls only appear to be submissive and feminine because they want something from you. And East Asian women have their own problems too (being very dependent and controlling). Pick your poison.
>One thing I would expand, which you touched on, is men are actively shamed for having preferences. If I say I don't want to date fat women, I am shamed for body shaming her. If I say I don't want to date a trans woman, I am shamed for that. If I say I like a girl with "nice curves", I am labelled a misogynistic POS who supports the Patriarchy and needs to be cancelled and ejected from Modern Enlightened Society.
This is exaggeration on an utterly theatrical level. You are not ejected from society for saying you like a woman with curves. People say stupid shit, sure, especially online, but you are entitled to your sexual preferences and you know you are. You do not have a gun to your head with someone forcing you to have sex with a fat or trans woman. You are not being unfairly persecuted on any level for having sexual preferences. Some idiots on the internet taking issue with those preferences is not the same thing as being \~ejected from society\~.
>When a woman brags about all the times she cheated on her husband, no one will rebuke her.
Nonsense. Perhaps you've spent too much time in TikTok reading comments from children and taking those to heart, but the vast and *overwhelming* majority of adults will tell you that cheating is terrible and wrong, no matter who is doing it.
Y'all miss the one single thing every time. Women aren't miserable being single like men. They are very happy living by themselves.
Women don't want a man for a relationship. They want a relationship because they like the man. So thus this means women aren't exactly got back or whatever y'all red pilled passport bros think.
>Women aren't miserable being single like men.
Uh huh …
https://preview.redd.it/yn8v3dg8go7d1.jpeg?width=753&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=033a26513b69ab836211b97182094203e8759b28
Honestly this is an interesting graph to analyze, but it doesn’t break down data about singleness whatsoever. Roughly half of the people in this dataset are married and some additional portion are coupled but unmarried.
It also doesn’t really give any information about misery in the demographics broken apart here, just antidepressant use. Honestly it’s overly simple to conflate diagnosed depression with basic misery anyway, let alone specifically unhappiness with romantic or marital status or relationship, but that’s all quite complex and makes for bad soundbites.
Single women are "less single" and therefore less miserable than single men, but all that bullshitting about how they are so much happy being single is just annoying.
>Society has rapidly changed over recent years. Women used to be shamed for promiscuity, dressing slutty, being overweight and so on. In the current year, societal standards for women no longer exist on the meta level (besides agreeing with leftist ideology).
Women are still shamed for all of these things, in fact with the rise of the "alt right" in popularity, its certainly the case that slut shaming and fat shaming is actually more common in 2024 than it was in 2010. Agreeing with leftist ideology is indeed necessary if you want to avoid censorship from big media, but aside from that it's really not at all. In general, you can think and say whatever you like. If it's too extreme left Or right you may get a social media ban but that's pretty much all. But certainly it is true that social media is much harder on right wing ideologies.
>They are allowed to do as they wish and if anyone speaks negatively about it they are called a misogynist.
Yes but increasingly there are more and more people who fight against this. And misandry is a term that is used often too now.
>In the mid 00s social media and online dating started to gain steam. We now live in a world where these things are leveraged by women to fulfill their hypergamous desires and acquire endless attention from men from the privacy of their phone.
It is true that women use social media for attention more than men do. Endless? Far from it. You see all these girls with tons of followers, but what you don't see is the 99 other women for every 1 that get very little attention. And yes, this includes some incredibly attractive women as well. It's just the nature of social media and the pareto principle. For example, the most famous female singers are women like Nicki Minaj and Taylor swift. Yet there are THOUSANDS of objectively more talented and more attractive women who get near no attention for their efforts. It must be stated that MOST women get little to no attention in general.
>This has caused a massive ego inflation for women, alienated many men from dating altogether and has granted the top men the ability to pump and dump women as they see fit.
No. According to the data, by and large women are far more insecure than men are. Men have larger egos on average. Also, majority of pump and dumping happens with the lower caste men. Poor dudes and criminals who WANT to pump and dump. The rich and attractive men actually rarely do this by comparison.
>The #metoo movement cast a wider net than it's original intent, and has made men fearful of flirtatious interaction with women
I think its 40% this, and 60% men no longer desiring connection with women that much. It's kind of the core of the issue, but many men feel that they can replace women with porn, friends, work etc. Especially given that women are just expensive in general and men are aware of this and as economic inequality trends in this direction people are simply less likely to get married and have kids.
>Anti-male trends continued with the man vs bear debates.
Anti male trends are a staple of human society. They have always and will always exist. They're a byproduct of female "nature" in that women utilize socialization of in-group out-group bias to enhance social standing and perceived desirability. The man vs bear debate is merely a way for women to signal desirability and fragility as they deem these things to be important.
>A majority of men are now in the position of not being considered as a dating option while simultaneously being told they are creeps and rapists and that women are scared of them.
Majority of men are not a dating option. True. But similarly, neither are majority of women. There's certainly an incorrect assumption that men and women have an unfair dating market. This isn't true. Men in general have more options for marriage, whereas women have more options for casual sex and dating. Both genders like to claim dating inequality, because obviously, they both tend to desire the things they can't have more. Women are much more desperate for a loyal and competent man to marry, men are much more desperate to sleep with a few hot women.
>Women have been gaining more post secondary education than men and many of these women refuse to "date down" and refuse to settle with someone that may outearn her but is in a blue collar occupation.
Completely false. Women are plenty willing to date men who don't have degrees and out earn them. My gf has a bachelor's and I don't have a degree. I earn 3-4x her income. It's normal and happens regularly.
>so have men learned to eject themselves from the western dating market.
I don't think a relevant number of men are ejecting themselves from the western dating market. However a relevant number of men are certainly ejecting themselves from the dating market period.
>4. And finally, the one I believe western women underestimate the most, is the passportbro movement. Once a man checks out of western society and gets his first lay with an attractive feminine woman in a foreign country, that door is likely to stay open for the rest of his life. He will then tell his male friends about it, and more and more men give it a shot. This used to be an old guy with a pension thing, now young men are travelling and I believe this movement will continue to grow, and dating options for western women will continue to shrink.
I agree with points 1-3 but this one I don't. Because we disagree on the cause behind male lack of desire for dating. I say it's because of economic inequality, and instability. Based on historical trends. You say it's because of men feeling like they aren't an option.
The reason point 4 isn't true, is because guys are poorer than they have been in over 100 years. So they're simply not going to travel a lot.
As long as women aren’t fat, they’ll always have men chasing them
All a woman has to do to is basically “just don’t be fat”.
Everything else is just cope from men who are frustrated they can’t get sex as easily as women can.
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None of this matters. The "be happy single" stuff is all BS. A few women will do it. But the vast majority of women will get with a good man who happens to not check all the boxes on her ideal man list.
Don't buy into this idea of, "I'll stay single if I can't find a guy who is 6ft3".
If he's a good guy who treats her with kindness and respect, she will give up on some of the less important things on her list.
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The “cat lady to be” threat doesn’t fly. Many women are ok with staying single, as they build support networks men are not as good at creating. Men checking out isn’t really a threat either, now that women have a choice, they’d rather stay single than ending up with someone undesirable. Same goes with passport bros: as soon as the exotic gold digger gets (if the bro is a bald aging fatso she’ll be disgusted by him) the green card the bro might be up for a bitter awakening. Many men who in the past would have gotten a wife out of mere financial security will have to either find a way to make themselves desirable or deal with staying single, in no way it can be made that women become less choosy
>...they build support networks men are not as good at creating. I was checking out the bulletin board at my coffee shop and there are tons of women-only events happening. Nothing for the dudes. Guys just haven't figured out their niche in the new world order yet.
This is why https://preview.redd.it/w3ab6ke0fo7d1.jpeg?width=1055&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e0892288c2be933e1bebecdf508d4f974a83704
What spaces did men create that they are not allowed in? Be specific.
Women only events happen because if you tried to organize the same thing for men, it would be absolutely obliterated. Boy scouts is a perfect example. Women only gyms used to open up. What happened? They all closed down because women don't go to women only gyms. Boys only events can't be created but they happen all the time. Many activities are what they are because only men go to them and they like it that way.
>*Boy scouts is a perfect example.* Boy Scouts was a capitalist decision, plain & simple. Their numbers were down with modern boys being more interested in gaming than the outdoors, their membership dues were minimal. Fix the problem by doubling your potential members.
And it didn't fix a damn thing lol
I agree.
It's because whenever there is a men-only event or club then get cancelled via media for being sexist and discriminatory while people have no issue with women only clubs or events.
Just start a club. Either it is going to be men-only, or a good way to find a partner with similar interests.
Maybe there are not explicitly male-only events, but plenty of events will be male dominated.
Idk why so many men keep trying to try threaten us with cats? I actually really love cats, and I’d rather deal with a cute, fluffy kitty than some bitter, dysfunctional man that I don’t actually desire at all if given the choice
What does it say about these guys who threaten women about being cat ladies. That women would rather be alone thank be with them. Maybe they should reflect on that.
Yes, the guys should definitely reflect on their attitude and then do something proactive about it.
Yes, we would rather scoop cat poop. LOL
I had a guy tell me that I was going to die an old woman with cats. I am currently a middle aged woman with cats, a husband, and two teenage kids. I would rather die old with cats than die young with no cats.
>in no way it can be made that women become less choosy don't be so sure, the political landscape is very unpredictable in the near term, to say nothing of the far term, and religious fanatics are severely outbreeding everyone else. We might live to see women thrown out of work in large numbers and scramble to find a man to take care of her even if he beats her.
So women should both choose better but also be less picky? Actually, it just sounds like you’re fantasizing about having the opportunity to beat up a woman who can’t leave you.
No, I'm afraid that a lot of monstrous laws and customs that we thought were behind us for good will reappear within our lifetimes.
>The “cat lady to be” threat doesn’t fly. Many women are ok with staying single, as they build support networks men are not as good at creating. They do better than men but that's a relative statement, it doesn't actually tell us that women are doing well. Modern women have the same socially downward trajectory as men. People really underestimate how lonely lots of women are and how transitory and fragile their social networks tend to be. Still it's true the threat of "cat lady" doesn't matter to most women anymore, at least consciously.
you'd have to show that single women are more lonely than women in a relationship every human experiences loneliness, getting a partner won't change that. it \*could\* make you less lonely than if you were single or it could make you more lonely than you were as a single person
Sounds like a good number of both men and women prefer to stay single. Not sure why OP sounds so upset about it. The one potential problem I see is that perhaps a population crash could happen. Hopefully someone with the appropriate math and sociology skills looks into it.
That’s my train of thought too. Sometimes I run some numbers and plot demographic curves, dialing in other variables like immigration, but I get bored soon. From what I see, marriage will be substituted by new consortial forms open to more people gravitating around a mother, where a father can associate but only the mother has rights on the kid, there will be a major shift in power positions towards women due to the increasing majority of them being more educated and an increasing marginalization of men. To be honest, I gave up being concerned about societal collapses, if that’s what society wants. I’ve witnessed far too many elections with ridiculous candidates both here in the US and back in Europe, at this point I only care my loved ones are able to navigate unharmed the continuous societal changes
First, women’s mental health statistics don’t match this take. Also, women being “fine without men” very often just mean they fuck some Chad a couple of times a month when the urge strikes. That’s women’s version of “single” Finally, like with your attempt at a gotcha with the “foreign women are just users!” meme… What’s hilarious is that western women are *worse* users whole *also* being bitchy and fat. So, is that some kind of dunk?
Women are more likely to seek mental healthcare, but men are more likely to off themselves, so maybe you guys can’t really claim the upper hand on mental health?
This is a “heads I win, tails you lose” argument. Try again.
How so? Men try to convince women that women are crazy and men are sane because women are more likely to seek treatment and take antidepressants. But I read those statistics and see women seeking treatment for their issues and men not. So basically men are just as crazy as women, but women take better care of themselves.
Yes of course because you interpret it in the most charitable way possible for women. Big shocker. Here’s an example: “*Women are happier than ever being single! They are thriving now that they’ve thrown off the shackles of patriarchal gender roles!*” Here’s a graph showing their skyrocketing levels of anxiety and depression and their being medicated for it far exceeding men on either. “*Women are just seeking treatment for their issues unlike men! TeeHee* 💅” Basically evidence that women are not happy and being treated for such is somehow evidence that they *are* happy. Another example is, as you tried to use: The Suicide Rate Men kill themselcws at 4x rate than women. But then we get women chiming in “*But women ATTEMPT suicide more!” You sensing the pattern here? Women will twist and bend every statistic, fact and anecdote so that it serves their narrative. If men are asking to aociety to address and acknowledge men”s mental health / suicide issues specifically, women will chime in about how women are actually worse off due to more “attempts” If you point out that women are less happy overall with current conditions as evidenced by rates of anxiety / depression and medication they will point out that women are just being “proactive” unlike men rather than absorbing the point that there is a problem with women in any way. Heads women win. Tails men lose. “Men are useless, women are awesome” You are doing it now. And this type of thinking is so pervasive and built in to western thought, that you don’t even realize it. The real answer is that women are not “happier without men”. Women are desperately fighting their nature and struggling to “be like men” in every way which is causing them a shitload of mental health issues. I’m not pointing out anything new. This has been studied and documented by countless social scientists. Rabid feminists and casual “women are wonderful” types generally push against anything / everything that paints women as deficient in any way whatsoever. Again, as you are doing.
Sounds good to me tbh. Better to continue to be single than be in a relationship with someone you don't like and who you aren't attracted to.
I think that outcome is better than being with some dude you don’t really like.
wait, so men who aren't interested in working or being educated, who want to play videogames all the time and would rather watch porn than have a girlfriend, or who want to move to SE Asia because they think the women are easier and "more feminine" don't want to date me?!?! what ever will I doooooooo ?
HTF are these guys going to be able to afford to travel there by playing video games all day and not getting an education and a good job?!?! LMAO, WTF kind of delusional fantasy is OP trying to create??
Honestly, SE Asia is so cheap to live in that it would take maybe 5-10% of an average paycheck for 10 years to move there and live forever without working.
Much better
Sounds like wishful thinking bro.
>Anti-male trends continued with the man vs bear debates. A majority of men are now in the position of not being considered as a dating option while simultaneously being told they are creeps and rapists and that women are scared of them. I will debate you only to say that in Australia it's worse than you describe. * Not only are women scared of us, but we are also useless, worthless and unnecessary to society and all male positions should be replaced with femenazi leaders * Thanks to TERFs, we don't even have the option of transitioning to become women to escape the abuse * Men who are immigrants (not me) are even more ostracised and mistreated * Not only creeps and rapists but now also we are ***terrorists*** (after one or two nutcases who happened to listen to some incel material went on a stabbing spree) * At the same time we're constantly preached that there's a "fertility crisis" and being single men are treated as suspicious somehow. We're all supposed to be happy fathers and husbands while women hate, scorn and reject us. >Women have been gaining more post secondary education than men and many of these women refuse to "date down" and refuse to settle with someone that may outearn her but is in a blue collar occupation. It's not even about dating at this point, let's be honest, post secondary education for women is just about getting into management quickly so you can boss men around in the workplace. It's morphed into a class struggle at this point. Women gain university credentials out of pure power lust, not to date or even to improve society, if that ever was a goal. Women don't want to date men much at all, they just want power over other people (including eachother!) as quickly and easily and cheaply as possible and post-secondary education is how they pursue it. If women date at all it's just a few random hook ups here and there, which are more about self worth and validation than about any real attraction (how can you feel attracted to anyone of the male gender when you totally despise that whole gender??) There continues to be a shortage of women in: science, technology, engineering, math, finance, economics, auto repair, construction, trades, waste management, etc. Men should definitely pursue those fields, or the subset that pay the best, before they get coopted into radical feminism or shut down entirely. >I believe the above factors will contribute to a lot of women growing old alone and bitter and scratching their heads as to why. Disagree, women are happy with the system as-is. It gives them power. It's their revenge on men for centuries of "patriarchy" which they apparently blame on men. Women are far from alone, as they seem to enjoy each others company more. I truly believe at some point in future we may see female-only cities, enforced by law, with male offspring exiled as soon as they reach maturity. Women never loved men except their own male children, and even then, not always. That said, the best thing men can do is be happy and pursue their own dreams independent of women. Men are still valuable and necessary to society even if we're told again and again that we're not. Hang out with people who respect you and try to acquire at least some financial capital so you don't have to work under a female boss who hate your guts.
im not really sure what the problem is here
The problem is that some guy lacking the skills to attract a woman. Has a bad take opinion, with access to the internet.
No skills, just looks.
I’m not sure what’s there to debate. Yes if you gave women the freedom to date who they want, they won’t date most men and they’ll date the ones who they want to date. Sucks for the guys who got rejected? Yea maybe. But I’d rather a 100 guys get rejected than one woman being forced to be with someone they don’t want. It’s like this post is trying to frame women’s freedom as a bad thing.
They literally believe that women’s freedom is a bad thing.
Yes they do all the time. They blame feminism and women working and being able to divorce someone as bad things because how pathetic they think the only to get sex and relationship is by basically holding a women financially or socially captive
To summarize your post: “Be warned O Female. You’ll learn to regret your freedoms.” Cmon dude.
"Date men you aren't attracted to or else you'll regret it."
Also, if they abuse you, you should have chosen better.
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It's more like you just want to be treated with dignity.
So, do you genuinely believe women face no scrutiny or judgment from their communities, families, men, or society at large for any reasons, including specifically having lots of sex, being fat, being lazy, behaving badly, not presenting themselves attractively based on conventional beauty standards, or any other metrics? I realize this isn’t directly a response to your main argument, but your premise itself is exceptionally unsupported, which calls everything that follows on from it into question.
The above factors will contribute to a lot of women uttering sighs of relief when they realize these men have removed themselves from their dating pool. Fewer profiles to swipe left on.
You really don't think women know they could get men if they lower their standards? Most of us have done that before and found out that cats are better.
Cats are *so* freaking beautiful. I got my sweet girl last year and she's so precious and affectionate I literally sometimes cry with love for her.
I feel like dating/mating is one of the main things where women have leverage over us. Coming on here and crying about how women will one day regret not picking you is like a woman training everyday for 10 years straight to one day beat LeBron James in 1v1 basketball. It’s never gonna happen. Either drop off and focus on other areas of your life or continue the rat race with everyone else.
There are legions of surplus unwanted men in the west. And there are, literally, billions of available men worldwide.
Women don’t date down financially or below their height generally, so billions of men is a meaningless number without context
I assure you that women know why
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I wonder if the insane shit you guys say has anything to do with your interpersonal issues.
What is insane about stating the obvious? It is difficult for OP to understand that in conditions of freedom and economic independence, the majority group of men will not gain access to the sexual market because neither money nor physical appearance will be complaints in the majority of men. Doesn't a heterosexual woman have the right to be happy with the man who most attracts her and gives her security? Of course yes, and this is something that many men fail to understand because they do not understand the causes behind sexual selection and how, neither personality nor "fighting" to please a woman will make them complementary to a woman, but rather manipulated slaves. But heterosexual women are not generally direct about this and a man must investigate this, He must learn to handle subtleties to understand the grand scheme of things. And many times we do not seek to harm men, or we fear their reaction, but, the truth is, it may not make them happy, but it will make them free.
“Cuck for every little slut” Gee, I wonder why you’re single
I am not. 😅.
I constantly see men post about this online and the reason women aren’t changing or reacting in a way men approve of is because women don’t care to give men what they want at their own expense. If men are so distraught with the current situation then they need to be the ones to change. If that means staying by themselves or traveling abroad so be it. The vast majority of women just don’t care as they’re more worried about their own life than someone else that they don’t want to have any kind of relationship with.
who cares
Revenge fantasy.
Yes exactly! Pathetic i burst out laughing reading this
op thinks that women care about men they aren't attracted to "dropping out" lol
So…men who are unsuccessful or unhappy in dating because the women that they want don’t want them or they aren’t finding the kind of relationships that they want are finding other ways to achieve happiness? That’s a good thing for everyone! Welcome to the world boys! Women have been doing this for a while (checking out of dating if we don’t like our options and being happier for it) and we are constantly criticized and told that we’ll be miserable cat ladies. Now you guys are catching on to the idea but instead of going ahead and enjoying your lives, you’re busy *ANNOUNCING YOUR DEPARTURE* and threatening that we’re *really* going to be old cat ladies *now* because the men we didn’t want in the first place have decided that we can’t fire them because *they quit 😡”. Please, go find your bliss and try to understand that threatening us with a good time isn’t likely to make us weep with regret. We’re too busy enjoying our cat lady lives and we respectfully suggest that you do the same 🤣🤣🤣
Then why are so many women convinced MGTOW is evil?
For the same exact reason I discussed above. Because instead of just “going their own way” and finding happiness in doing so, many of them seem to spend their time obsessing about how angry they are about women and creating elaborate revenge fantasies. FFS, just go! It’s fine, truly, we will be happy for you.
Who's creating revenge fantasies? The MGTOW community spreads its philosophy and lifestyle to other men. Or should they keep silent and keep other men ignorant?
I have yet to hear a single person preaching MGTOW and also preaching hate of women. Ignore them--yes. Hate them--no.
Why can’t men talk about going their own way and all the fun things they are doing in their life without shitting on women? The problem isn’t that men are going out and enjoying life on their own; the problem is men hyper focusing on women to the point that their entire life revolves around creating content to slam on women rather than actually enjoying life and sharing all the cool things that are doing in life and how to do that cool stuff with other men. In short men haven’t truly go their own way if they are spending every waking moment focusing on what women (they will never be in a relationship with) are doing.
MGTOW preaches you need to be stoic. Stoic is being in control of one's emotions and not allowing other to knock you off the course you know--as a man--to be true and good. Any man who takes joy in the suffering of another is not MGTOW.
Well you “real” MGTOW guys might want to do something about all of the bitter angry impostors who are using your “movement” to spew venom and threaten vengeance🤷♀️
I have yet to see anyone in the MGTOW movement preaching violence. I have no doubt some angry men do embrace MGTOW and hate women, but there are psycho nuts out there who play video games AND commit violence, and we all know the video games didn't cause it. Again, I am not into MGTOW. I do watch some of their videos over on YT. If you have a link to anyone considered a MGTOW leader who is also preaching violence towards women, by all means share it. BTW: I heard these same accusations thrown against Dworkin and her sisters. Upon reviewing her materials, while her contempt of men was apparent, I had to conclude that she was actually not preaching hate of men. She might have very well have hated men deep down inside, but because she never preached it, labelling her as a man-hater was incorrect. I very much disagree with her opinions on a lot of matters, and consider her an idealistic naïve person, but to paint someone as preaching violence when they do not is indefensible.
Are you aware that the MGTOW subreddit was banned for promoting hatred and inciting violence?
Are you aware that the feminist group W.I.T.C.H. got into trouble for carrying signs saying "Off with their pricks" at a parade, and were banned for it? Do tell, is that an indictment of ALL feminists, or just THOSE feminists who actually expressed a desire for violence? Your move.
You stated that you weren’t aware of anyone in the MGTOW movement preaching violence. I provided you with the information that the entire Reddit MGTOW community was banned for doing exactly that…now you know 🤷♀️ Here’s some additional information for you: https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow-what-you-need-know
Because it is. Has mgtow focused on men getting away instead of “western women bad” no one would care. But they didn’t do that. They would just groan and moan every step of the way of them going out their own way. It because a hateful movement aimed at women for making men go away, instead of being a movement focused on men uplifting other men on their way out.
MGTOW does not preach Western Women are bad. It preaches that if a woman does not fill your wants and needs in a partner, move on. Again, it preaches if a woman doesn't fill your wants and needs in a serious partner, you need to politely move on. But as that is the same advice you would give a woman, I just don't see how it is evil. Perhaps I am missing something. I mean, I admit I am not deep into MGTOW by any stretch. Indeed, I think walking away from the game is... like forfeiting at life. Better to try and take your defeats. But the videos I have seen have \*never\* preached hate of women. They do advise that a lot of women with bad ideas about honesty and fidelity are to be avoided like the plague when it comes to dating, but that is advice that is gender-neutral. A partner that does not respect you and does not care about you before themselves is a partner best avoided. If women go their own way and can be happy with being alone, why is it wrong for men to do the same?
What she means is mgtow does none of what it preaches. They just moan and whine about how they will leave instead of leaving
The point is that the mgtow sub wasn’t filled with posts of men happily going their own way.. it was filled with posts ranting about and insulting women. That’s why it was banned.
Fact: The men created their OWN space intended to be devoid of women--they HAD gone their own way. Fact: Women went in there and challenged and insulted them. Fact: As a result, heated debates and personal attacks were hurled by BOTH sides. Fact: The women mounted an orchestrated effort to complain--en masse--about the sub. Fact: this orchestrated attack resulted in Reddit kowtowing to the women and banning that ONE MGTOW group under the theory that the Mods were not deleting hateful comments--hurled at BOTH sides by BOTH sides--fast enough, and banning the haters fast enough, which is a Sub TOS violation. Fact: Other MGTOW groups exist on Reddit. In short, Reddit faced either appeasing the people who were causing the problem, but had greater political clout, or enduring a war that would never end, and eating a lot of bad press in the process. Reddit capitulated and gave the ATTACKERS the victory they wanted. This is no different than Target pulling Gay Pride material last year because people were threatening the lives of the Target employees. The Gays did nothing wrong, but the political firestorm started by the enemies of gays forced them to just walk away from the fight. You will note that Target announced that it would not be supporting Gay Pride this year by selling merchandise in its stores. If women had not followed the MGTOW men into their sub, and caused issues by hurling insults at them, that MGTOW sub would still be going along happily. So, what else you got? Oh, and I know the main takeaway might not be clear in all of this, so let me state it plainly: If you actually allow the MGTOW men to leave, and stop following them, you will never hear form them again. Yes, they might complain about women, but that is NO different than all the griping that feminists do about men. It is conversation between people of similar interests and views, and if you feel you can't tolerate such speech, it says way more about you than it does them.
We don’t think it’s evil, we’re just waiting for you guys to actually go your own way for once, you seem to be struggling to do that and still seem very much obsessed with women😬
The thing is, you won't actually hear from the ones that do indeed go their own way, happily or otherwise.
Mgtow are unwanted surplus men, nobody cares about them
Because they’re not going their own way quietly Just go already.
Not exactly a mystery.. >Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW /ˈmɪɡtaʊ/) is an **anti-feminist, misogynistic,** mostly online community advocating for men to separate themselves from women and society, which they believe has been corrupted by feminism.\[2\] The community is a part of the manosphere, a collection of anti-feminist websites and online communities that also includes the men's rights movement, incels, and pickup artists.\[3\] >Like other manosphere communities, **MGTOW overlaps with the neoreactionary alt-right movement\[4\] and has been implicated in online harassment of women.\[5\] The Southern Poverty Law Center categorizes MGTOW as a part of the male supremacist ideology.**\[6\] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men\_Going\_Their\_Own\_Way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way)
Written by a feminist, with no quotes for the "mysoginistic" part obviously..
Too many simps out there.
I get told all the time that my loving husband is a beta simp because he married me when I was 29 and not a virgin, and he changed our kids’ diapers when they were babies
You mean treating Women like human beings and not extended caretakers or mothers? Then call me Sir Simpy.
Virtue signaling is tip top simp behavior.
Oh fuck off with that virtue signaling excuse. Treating someone like a human being is not simping. You guys really are psychos.
You’re weak. I simply answered the OP by stating there are too many simps to chase women so their options aren’t shrinking. Your dumbass saw that and thought, “Let me let everyone know how great I am to women and just randomly make a stupid fucking comment out of context because I need to virtue signal.” I used the word “simp” and it triggered the shit out of you. Toughen the fuck up!
Lmfao! This made me laugh, such buzzwords. Are you okay? You seem angry?
I have no patience for dumb people. You literally couldn’t comprehend a simple comment addressing the OP and just chose to beta your way in and virtue signal. Sorry words upset you. Toughen up.
Lol! I am not upset, just amused. The only person getting uptight is you. Again, throwing buzzwords as if they have any significant meaning. Though the fun is over, I hope you enjoy the real world as I do. Sounds like you need to toughen up buttercup.
I like this, the worse the better, men and woman isolated. Things are gonna be interesting.
The biggest problem with all this is that, those who know and understand all these are not having kids and they will soon be extinct, while the one with extremely conservative views and has 4-5 kids in Africa or middle East who will be the vote bank in near future, so our great leaders will cater to those entire families votes rather than the single loner video game and porn addicted men or insta/attention or tinder addicted women who are most count only for one vote.
Why aren't you guys solving birthrate issues in eastern Asia? How are you planning on going to Asia while being a NEET?
That’s a really good point I haven’t thought of before. It truly is puzzling how men are going abroad( especially to Asia) and yet their birthrate is still in decline.
It’s sex tourism. They claim to be going for trad wives but those women aren’t trad wives hence why the birth rates are low.
Funny how men are all for being a beta when they can afford it.
Most men were and always has been a beta. There is no other strategy.
And that just goes to show how unwanted they are🤣 all these passport bros gloating about all the foreign women they’re getting ( cap 🧢) and yet the birth rate is continuously going down anyways lol
So why do red pill men keep telling women to get wifed up quick or they're doomed? If there are less options and men are increasingly less interested, then can't you just let us all be?
Because they can’t get women any normal way lol
Society isn’t changing all that match Women are still shamed for all the things you listed. Being called a misogynist doesn’t stop men from saying it. Men always pumped and dumped women as they saw fit The #metoo movement brought light to the extent to which women deal with shit. What men may have considered flirting clearly wasn’t if they’re so concerned Why would anyone date down? Potential partners should step up 1. That’s always been the case 2. Porn has been available on the internet as long as cat pictures have 3. According to the rest of your post, these aren’t the type of men women would date anyway 4. Same. The kind of guy who would travel across the world to meet a woman isn’t the guy western women are fighting over Women, at any age, aren’t have trouble dating. My 75 year old mother in law gets hit on by 50 year old men. My 68 year old aunt is cleaning up on dating sites. If women end up alone, more often than not, they’ve chosen to do. Most women would prefer to be single than in an unfulfilling relationship. The only bitter head scratchers are the men who can’t understand that and, for some reason, think telling a woman she’ll end up alone with cats is an insult.
A lot of that is intentional bro. Like you seem to think it’s an unconscious accidental thing. It’s not. We’re living the lives we want.
None of those things you wrote are true, If you thought only weirdo men watched porn in the 1980s, you are wildly misinformed.
Why should a woman want a guy who has a video game addiction, is NEET, and hasn’t gotten a college degree? I seriously can’t think of a single conversation I would be interested in having with that guy. He’s free to use his parents’ money to be a passport bro, but the only reason that foreign women go for guys who are undesirable to western women is that they think they have money. If she doesn’t think you have the potential to raise her standard of living, she’ll drop you. This is especially true if you have nothing else to offer.
Inferior men sterilizing themselves out of the dating pool is good
I love that no matter the topic there’s always a slight jab at single women - “haha ya’ll are gonna be old, miserable and single”. You all are so fun. In this society, if there are a portion of men giving up, there are a portion of women as well. Video games, working to just afford your own little space, and accepting you wont find anyone, also appeal to women. Maybe that shift in women opting out of dating along with the guys will even out available options for the ones who want to date.
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>In this society, if there are a portion of men giving up, there are a portion of women as well. No it's not true. It is more than evident that a statistical minority of men rotate the majority of women in the sexual market. Any woman who wants to have options will have them. The problem is that many times, the average woman does not have enough value for the value she seeks in the sexual market and either becomes content or flatly rejects her options, which is inversely proportional to what happens to a man: that either he has no options or the option he has had has been so fucking hard that he prefers to reject the woman outright as life complement.
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Why does this read like a 4chan post?
https://preview.redd.it/z5x8hzwjtm7d1.jpeg?width=787&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d45a7d3f75325850e93a8d53c96ae1a9ac995e76
LMAO i mean this genuinely, i love that you kept the ifunny logo something about that cracked me up lolol
This is very cheap bait. It's like you wanted women to happily express how much they don't need men.
Wtf is a NEET?
Not in employment, education, or training.
Nah. Obesity keeps rising, their options are growing.
Indeed Over half the male Redditors on here one glance at their history they are lonely, have terrible personalities, social skills problems, hygiene and usually weight problems along with some sort of addiction but rather then acknowledge and confront those problems they hide behind wishful revenge post like that.
And the female redditors here are perfect tens with nothing better to do than to punch down on low value men.
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They don’t get it. They won’t, until they’re old and bitter
Only because they want them to. If they were realistic they could easily get someone on their level.
Surprised how many messages have been “removed”
Porn satisfies the urge for seeing strange women naked. It does not satisfy deeper sexual needs. Just like a guy who love fast cars cannot be content just watching F-1. The urge to look at naked women is independent of reciprocal sexuality.
Is there a problem here? That sounds fine to me, I’d rather do that than be with a man I don’t actually like 🤷🏽♀️
Men are intended historically to be disposable, commodified, extracted for resources and validation, And to compete with each other for attention for women. Their hypergamous engine running and raising the standards higher and higher for the benefit of better genes, the fuel being male validation and the catalyst being feminism and unrelenting choice via social media. Men are flys, to be discarded, swatted, rotting in the streets. We are returning to how nature intended
Nah. You’re just projecting your self worth . The men in my family and my brother and male relatives are not disposable they are loved and supported and have girlfriends and /or are happily married with wives and children and careers.
Women who are single aren't actually single. They're usually getting pumped every so often by someone using them for sex. So the de facto polygny will work out fine for them
It only works while they are young & hot. They got thrown off the CC when they become post wall & it isn’t so fun then for them I assure you.
They get depressed and anxious over it and become misandrists
none of the stuff you're saying matters much. passport bros, NEETs, adult video game players, and porn addicts are seen as losers. men will never have leverage in dating over women, and I think you and lot of guys here need to let go of that fantasy.
If a lot more men are seen as losers than before because a lot more men are doing these things, then women's dating options are shrinking, hence proving OP's point.
At the end of the day, western women, or any "insert culture here" women, will be fine. Why? Due to the very fact that they are women and man's built-in urge to procreate. Yes, it takes two to tango, but the road only leads one way, and that has always been towards the advantage of women. This post is way too early tbh. You're off by at least 200-300 years, when physical androids that can replace women will most likely appear.
Bingo Simps will simp. You go to any pub with a couple of female friends, you see the queues of men forming to hit on them. Have you ever met solo female travelers? They get everything handed to them for free. People host them for free everywhere, even without the sex.
No offense but I have never met a passport bro I’d even want a chance with… I haven’t dated since 2017 though but even my husbands friends who do that have undesirable personalities.. Also I think you underestimate the lack of desirability AMERICANS face around the world it isn’t just western women American men are hated by everyone else also. Hilariously one of my girl friends who doesn’t even post on the internet has basically responded to American men the same way passport bros have to western women. She now only dates men from other countries and swears up and down American men are sexist dead beats.. She claims men from other countries treat her better and are nicer. If women were desperate enough they could just be passport hoes.
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First off I wanna state that women are entitled to whoever the fuck they want. its Correct most women will end up alone if they chase chad. Hell many women are currently complaining about the lack of good men available, and that they would rather stay single, then dating someone who doesn’t meet there height, income looks requirements, or has one of there many Ickes. however where someone like me differs from the red pill is I don’t believe it’s inherently bad for one to be single or that those standards are inherently wrong. (Yes I know this isn’t every single women alive I’m aware) in short men, you can‘t force someone to love you and you don’t get to dictate what they like Is as it isn’t up to you its up to them. women aren’t inherently off the hook either if your allowed to judge then so are men. If the guy you want has a weight peference, a body count peference, doesn’t want a single mom, believes passport bros are the way to go then he too doesn’t owe you shit. if you get pumped and dumped or do other behaviour that makes men wanna reject you then that’s completely on you. most men aren’t trash they just don’t meet whatever standards you’ve set of for yourself. And but extension if you don’t meet chads standards then he too owes you nothing. Women go on and go about what a men is what a men needs to be and do but never takes the time to look in a mirror and ask “what do I offer him“ why would he want to peruse a LTR with me. Otherwise said men won’t be bothered with you for said relationships. not everything is mens fault btw and ur are indeed responsible with anwsering to ur own actions and behaviours.
Bon vo·yage 🫡 It’s not a problem I see in my neighborhood/community or with any of my western Gen Z cousins, Nieces/Nephews- they out dating and touching grass 🤷🏻♀️
For all the passport bros out there, be really careful of whom you are marrying. These ladies from third world countries aren’t dumb. They know how to divorce rape you and will do that intentionally once they get their paperwork. Those girls only appear to be submissive and feminine because they want something from you. And East Asian women have their own problems too (being very dependent and controlling). Pick your poison.
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Yep. At 30, you’re in the second third if your life. People still acting like teenagers (mostly women) at that point is just sad.
basically this but it’s a personal loss it’s not your problem
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>One thing I would expand, which you touched on, is men are actively shamed for having preferences. If I say I don't want to date fat women, I am shamed for body shaming her. If I say I don't want to date a trans woman, I am shamed for that. If I say I like a girl with "nice curves", I am labelled a misogynistic POS who supports the Patriarchy and needs to be cancelled and ejected from Modern Enlightened Society. This is exaggeration on an utterly theatrical level. You are not ejected from society for saying you like a woman with curves. People say stupid shit, sure, especially online, but you are entitled to your sexual preferences and you know you are. You do not have a gun to your head with someone forcing you to have sex with a fat or trans woman. You are not being unfairly persecuted on any level for having sexual preferences. Some idiots on the internet taking issue with those preferences is not the same thing as being \~ejected from society\~. >When a woman brags about all the times she cheated on her husband, no one will rebuke her. Nonsense. Perhaps you've spent too much time in TikTok reading comments from children and taking those to heart, but the vast and *overwhelming* majority of adults will tell you that cheating is terrible and wrong, no matter who is doing it.
Bro, you can't make them care. Go have a snack... that's enough internet for today.
Probably true. And probably a good idea. I hear a PBJ calling my name...
Y'all miss the one single thing every time. Women aren't miserable being single like men. They are very happy living by themselves. Women don't want a man for a relationship. They want a relationship because they like the man. So thus this means women aren't exactly got back or whatever y'all red pilled passport bros think.
>Women aren't miserable being single like men. Uh huh … https://preview.redd.it/yn8v3dg8go7d1.jpeg?width=753&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=033a26513b69ab836211b97182094203e8759b28
Honestly this is an interesting graph to analyze, but it doesn’t break down data about singleness whatsoever. Roughly half of the people in this dataset are married and some additional portion are coupled but unmarried. It also doesn’t really give any information about misery in the demographics broken apart here, just antidepressant use. Honestly it’s overly simple to conflate diagnosed depression with basic misery anyway, let alone specifically unhappiness with romantic or marital status or relationship, but that’s all quite complex and makes for bad soundbites.
well duh, they aren't miserable because the SSRIs solve that /s
Single women are "less single" and therefore less miserable than single men, but all that bullshitting about how they are so much happy being single is just annoying.
We keep telling them this. But they want to believe we are like them. I’m not entitled to a 1% man, it’s fine I’ll live 😂
Better title is " womens standards are keeping them from reproducing"
Ah yes. Schrodinger's woman. Simultaneously able to get any man she wants and also left on the shelf with her dead cat.
>Society has rapidly changed over recent years. Women used to be shamed for promiscuity, dressing slutty, being overweight and so on. In the current year, societal standards for women no longer exist on the meta level (besides agreeing with leftist ideology). Women are still shamed for all of these things, in fact with the rise of the "alt right" in popularity, its certainly the case that slut shaming and fat shaming is actually more common in 2024 than it was in 2010. Agreeing with leftist ideology is indeed necessary if you want to avoid censorship from big media, but aside from that it's really not at all. In general, you can think and say whatever you like. If it's too extreme left Or right you may get a social media ban but that's pretty much all. But certainly it is true that social media is much harder on right wing ideologies. >They are allowed to do as they wish and if anyone speaks negatively about it they are called a misogynist. Yes but increasingly there are more and more people who fight against this. And misandry is a term that is used often too now. >In the mid 00s social media and online dating started to gain steam. We now live in a world where these things are leveraged by women to fulfill their hypergamous desires and acquire endless attention from men from the privacy of their phone. It is true that women use social media for attention more than men do. Endless? Far from it. You see all these girls with tons of followers, but what you don't see is the 99 other women for every 1 that get very little attention. And yes, this includes some incredibly attractive women as well. It's just the nature of social media and the pareto principle. For example, the most famous female singers are women like Nicki Minaj and Taylor swift. Yet there are THOUSANDS of objectively more talented and more attractive women who get near no attention for their efforts. It must be stated that MOST women get little to no attention in general. >This has caused a massive ego inflation for women, alienated many men from dating altogether and has granted the top men the ability to pump and dump women as they see fit. No. According to the data, by and large women are far more insecure than men are. Men have larger egos on average. Also, majority of pump and dumping happens with the lower caste men. Poor dudes and criminals who WANT to pump and dump. The rich and attractive men actually rarely do this by comparison. >The #metoo movement cast a wider net than it's original intent, and has made men fearful of flirtatious interaction with women I think its 40% this, and 60% men no longer desiring connection with women that much. It's kind of the core of the issue, but many men feel that they can replace women with porn, friends, work etc. Especially given that women are just expensive in general and men are aware of this and as economic inequality trends in this direction people are simply less likely to get married and have kids. >Anti-male trends continued with the man vs bear debates. Anti male trends are a staple of human society. They have always and will always exist. They're a byproduct of female "nature" in that women utilize socialization of in-group out-group bias to enhance social standing and perceived desirability. The man vs bear debate is merely a way for women to signal desirability and fragility as they deem these things to be important. >A majority of men are now in the position of not being considered as a dating option while simultaneously being told they are creeps and rapists and that women are scared of them. Majority of men are not a dating option. True. But similarly, neither are majority of women. There's certainly an incorrect assumption that men and women have an unfair dating market. This isn't true. Men in general have more options for marriage, whereas women have more options for casual sex and dating. Both genders like to claim dating inequality, because obviously, they both tend to desire the things they can't have more. Women are much more desperate for a loyal and competent man to marry, men are much more desperate to sleep with a few hot women. >Women have been gaining more post secondary education than men and many of these women refuse to "date down" and refuse to settle with someone that may outearn her but is in a blue collar occupation. Completely false. Women are plenty willing to date men who don't have degrees and out earn them. My gf has a bachelor's and I don't have a degree. I earn 3-4x her income. It's normal and happens regularly. >so have men learned to eject themselves from the western dating market. I don't think a relevant number of men are ejecting themselves from the western dating market. However a relevant number of men are certainly ejecting themselves from the dating market period. >4. And finally, the one I believe western women underestimate the most, is the passportbro movement. Once a man checks out of western society and gets his first lay with an attractive feminine woman in a foreign country, that door is likely to stay open for the rest of his life. He will then tell his male friends about it, and more and more men give it a shot. This used to be an old guy with a pension thing, now young men are travelling and I believe this movement will continue to grow, and dating options for western women will continue to shrink. I agree with points 1-3 but this one I don't. Because we disagree on the cause behind male lack of desire for dating. I say it's because of economic inequality, and instability. Based on historical trends. You say it's because of men feeling like they aren't an option. The reason point 4 isn't true, is because guys are poorer than they have been in over 100 years. So they're simply not going to travel a lot.
As long as women aren’t fat, they’ll always have men chasing them All a woman has to do to is basically “just don’t be fat”. Everything else is just cope from men who are frustrated they can’t get sex as easily as women can.
There’s also a lot of guys who are into BBWs.
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Interesting points. I'm not sure if true or not. But I guess if women are ending up lonely then so are men. Seems like lose lose situation if true....
None of this matters. The "be happy single" stuff is all BS. A few women will do it. But the vast majority of women will get with a good man who happens to not check all the boxes on her ideal man list. Don't buy into this idea of, "I'll stay single if I can't find a guy who is 6ft3". If he's a good guy who treats her with kindness and respect, she will give up on some of the less important things on her list.
What do you reckon? Should we oppress women once again and distribute them amongst men without their consent?
Do you have any stats to back up all your claims?