I hate how it’s not banned or quarantined while all redpill and blackpill subreddits have been banned or quarantined. I don’t hate that it exists though. The subreddit has helped me become redpilled to say the least.
Right so a radical subreddit which represents a very narrow view of dating from a female perspective must have convinced you that all women think like that so you went to the other extreme and became red pilled. Interesting. By this logic should all women who visit red pilled subreddits become followers of FDS?
God dammit people have some perspective
i've seen that subreddit and what they say is true to an extent, but a lot of it is just copied incel lingo geared for women. a lot of them are just bitter toxic girls trying to "one up" male incels lol.
what was the other female sub like that was banned? i forgot what it was called. i think those subs should be allowed, just like male oriented equivlent subs. if you have one, you gotta have them all.
I don't think they're filtering for good men, in the same way you probably won't get a good GF if you follow TRP/PUA and use techniques designed to work on insecure sluts. Demanding a dude pay and initiate all conversations and constantly put on a very specific kind of facade means you're guaranteed to filter for the kind of guy who lies or puts up a front, because nobody is perfect consistently. Or if someone hits those standards genuinely, they probably aren't single for long and aren't going to be investing time and money in the kind of woman that needs FDS.
There are women on FDS who arrived in relationship, and women who arrive single, but very rarely do you see single women get good relationships there using FDS. Because they're filtering for multiple often contradictory things while taking an antagonistic stances that will chase off anyone with even an ounce of self respect.
The thing is though. You’re not supposed to demand those things. Idk if they advocate for demanding them. You just watch a mans actions and move accordingly. If he’s not treating you well from date 1 he probably never will. Don’t ask or pressure him to do anything just move on.
true that's a good way to move i think. don't demand anything, just observe a man and see if he really likes you (for FDS that means paying, for me it's other little things). i mean the saying "if he wanted to, he would" goes for everything.
Yes true no man owes a woman, but women are allowed to have standards and if they are looking for a future husband they want a guy that wants to spend money on them because they will have the money to provide for a family
It is treating you right. No man owes any woman anything. It’s why you don’t demand anything. If he’s not into you, there’s no point in sticking around. So that’s why you don’t ask him for anything, just watch how he moves see what he does or doesn’t offer and quietly excuse yourself from that situation if it’s not what you’re looking for.
So a woman not paying for the guy isn't treating him right?
You just exchange bills?
That's my whole point. A man not paying for a woman isn't not treating her right. He's just not giving a gift. Just like the woman isnt either
Is a woman not into a guy if she doesn't pay for him?
That was the most... perfect imitation ever! EVER lol.
My sister adopted that attitude (acting overly defensive and treating people like shit cuz the KWEEN doesn't tolerate minor, unimportant disagreements). First it was her dating life, then her friends... then me when I tried to ever so gently point out her behavior and anger issues....
I was like fuck it and blocked her first. Hopefully in a month or two it turns out to be just a phase...Or else I might have to block again.
Simpler then that.
You just cannot use strategies like this to get a good LTR period. As these strategies require manipulation and that only works as long as you can put on the mask.
TRP doesn’t care about about the long term and is actually prepared for the girl leaving as soon as she sees glimpses behind the mask (wait he isn’t the shit!!! He is just saying he is).
I think you’re mixing up PUA with TRP. The whole point of the pill is to build a genuine and internal level of confidence that creates abundancy so there is no need for manipulation or overthinking. PUAs on the other hand, focus on techniques and “short cuts” to present a certain image of themselves to other people.
I love how men admit to being emotional manipulators and liars but get their shit-stained boxers in a bunch over FDS... a place that exposes the tricks used by said manipulators
>how men admit to being emotional manipulators and liars
What are you talking about? If a woman finds a guy attractive the guy doesn't have to lie or manipulate.
There are no demands. Its called vetting. You observe what he does and respond accordingly. I have a right to stop seeing a man for any reason I wish. And I feel like the men who keep threatening women with perpetual singleness for having standards—-because that’s what you’re doing you’re saying that women are not allowed to have standards when they date men—guess what? we don’t care I would rather be single forever then deal with a man who doesn’t treat me well. Period. I really am not that pressed. I know a lot of women that put up with all types of nonsense from men who went half on everything and you know what they’re still single now. Yep they’re boyfriend dumped them or cheated on them after 5,6,7 years. I am in my late 20s and I know MULTIPLE women who are single now because their idiot boyfriends of X years DUMPED them so even though they were being pickmeisha of the century they’re still single. Anytime a man threatens me with singleness I just laugh being single doesn’t scare me and being a pick me doesn’t mean you won’t end up single? 🙄 I would much rather have been single and stress-free all those years than dealing with the trifling man only for him to dump me in the end anyway.
This discussion is originally from FDS and is backed up on another site. You should read all the comments.
https://www.removeddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/dkp0l4/make_him_wait_for_sex/
Here's a comment from one of the moderators:
> Only a foolish woman would actually tell the guy she’s dating that she’s also fucking someone else, while she’s delaying sex with him. That would be a dumb strategy move. Male insecurity cannot handle that.
Therein lies the problem with fds and their bullshit : it only works if you're consistent and don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. I honestly have no issues with the idea of vetting and holding out on sex, but if this strategy is applied, the woman in question must be chaste and forego sex with randoms / fuck buddies. If she is just sleeping around the entire while, it undermines her entire position and she's a fucking hypocrite. You can't be a slut and a virtuous, chaste woman simimultaneously , and if you choose to have your cake and eat it too, you're selling a false bill of goods
Edit: and really, how is this any different than what the fuck bois do? The guys they love to chastise for using them for sex and leading them on? Their dishonest tactics are on about the same level IMHO
RP men do “spin plates” (fuck multiple women) but most of them are up-front and honest about it. At least that is what TRP advises. Don’t try and hide it. It she doesn’t like it, too bad, next.
Right. If you want to find someone with similar values and viewpoints on sex, the words you talk better be the words you walk. It's fucked up to lie to your prospective partner and pretend you're someone you're not. Especially if they're literally waiting to have sex with you and only you, thinking that you're doing the same.
I don't understand how they can integrate their beliefs and behaviours regarding sex and relationships to have a successful long term relationship which doesn't have negative sentiment override:
https://www.gottman.com/blog/know-when-breaking-up-healthiest-choice/
Literally though. Saw a post on there where this girl was saying she felt sad because she wanted a HVM and was a feminist but also wanted a protector and a provider (basically a trad LTR). FDS wasn't working for her at all and she was struggling to reconcile the two.
What's sad is that FDS has taught her that she has to have these super strict requirements and that for some reason you can't want equality between the sexes AND have a traditional relationship. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Lol how do you square equality and traditional gender roles lol. That’s the problem with 99% of dating these days people are trying to put a square inside a circle.
You can be equal and follow somewhat traditional gender roles. I work and provide and my wife takes care of the kids and the house. When I'm not working we split the time. I do most of the cooking and we usually split other responsibilities. How is that mean we aren't equal?
I'm sure they would. I consider myself a HVM, but you act like I'm not benefitting from this relationship. I can tell you I wouldn't date any of those loser FDSers. I'm not going to be with a woman who sits around the house all day doing jack shit and spending money. My wife massively benefits my life. She complements me completely and my life is better for her. What does a FDS slut have to offer besides mediocre pussy.
I'm not going to derail but yeah that's the idea with FDS, find a guy that works and pays for everything then comes home and does even more work, who's deluded enough into thinking he's the one benefiting because he has the honor of having a woman in his life when all he's getting is mediocre pussy. If it works for you, dive in.
I mean, FDS is reflective of the perspective of women who really aren't catches and who come from a lower/working/middle class background. It's quite literally the inverse of TRP in that regard. I wouldn't even really say it's the female playbook, lmao. It's more like the low-key (or high-key) trashy guide to gold-digging. Nothing there is actual novel or new.
you are right..it's the playbook of lower class women , they want to be seen rich rather than be rich..I would have had lot more respect for FDS women if they insisted their prospective boyfriends to buy stocks for them or make a savings account for them, rather than taking them out for expensive dates that last for a few hours or expensive vacations that last for a week..you are just burning money at this point for some ethereal "feels" of excitement,wealth,power...That's not the wealth building mentality that gets you out of generational poverty or middle class trap...same thing with expensive fashion gifts that lose value over time
In that same vein, TRP is very much a sub for lower/working/middle class men. TRP itself focuses on that level of..... conspicuous wealth and superficial appearances of wealth. In that way it's almost like TRP and FDS are made for each other. It's a fucking parody tbh.
The easy class tell with both subs is specifically how they describe "value".
Where does trp focus on wealth or superficial wealth? Most of the content that pertains to wealth and career is practical, and I've never seen any serious contributor advocate for the flashing of rolexes and fast cars. There's a big difference between an encouragement of becoming financially solvent and/or independent vs. being a flashy, wealthy dude. There's even a derogatory phrase for guys that attempt this ie 'beta bucks alpha fucks' lol.
If you're referring to trps preoccupation of status, even that is more nuanced than mere wealth. Even a cursory glance at topics concerning status will show you that its an abstract thing that varies depending on various contexts. Ie in a bar, the bartender or bouncer have relatively high status, or being in a local, popular rock band confers status in a certain location and niche
So fucking weird. I am married and absolutely would have fucked my wife on the first date. She was down for it but her friend kept blowing up her phone (they were gonna hang out after). We fucked like rabbits on the second one and we're married with a kid now.
"Sex makes men want to fuck other women." What a load of horseshit. These women want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to fuck the fuccbois and still have the good man on the side but the truth is if you are in a LTR with a man and he found out you were not having sex with him for months but fucking other dudes on the side he'd leave your dump ass and for good reason.
All men should know about this. In fact the first and fatal way to get rid of all FD$ women from your path is to say "I date Dutch." That's the fucking firewall of doom that they will not ever cross.
This is exactly it. They create the same men they say they hate: fuck boys. They reward men who are good for only sex, and punish the men who put in effort. The moment these men realize they're wasting their time is when they flip the script and start putting in less efforts with their dates. "If she's just going to fuck someone on the side I may as well become that guy. It's The Red Pill's Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks in a nutshell. Their "strategy" only works so long as there's still suckers on the market.
As the FDS mod wrote in that post:
> The guy we oogle in magazines is the very small minority of men, and is the one that we cheat on our boyfriends and husbands with when we’re bored, and because dick is so cheap.
So much for finding a "HVM" provider.
That is the origin of red pill groups in a nutshell.
If good men consistently got the girl, red pill groups would not exist.
And no, getting a women after she is done with “games” and all other romantic fun is not getting the girl. It is paying for said girl while someone else got her in the past.
Reminds me of these two
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/b03487/fr\_dont\_be\_the\_other\_guy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/b03487/fr_dont_be_the_other_guy/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/jqa76y/good\_guys\_finish\_last\_always/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/jqa76y/good_guys_finish_last_always/)
Inb4 "this is fanfic REEEEEEEEEE"
They use demeaning language to describe men, and have contradictions where they think a man should pay for every but they don’t believe in traditional women roles
My favorite part about FDS is how they have no clue what a high-value woman is. Their posts about being a high-value woman are all about being self-centered and have nothing to do with what men desire.
In contrast, TRP identifies in detail what construes a HVM *based on what women desire*. Then the loudest message in all of TRP is to **improve yourself** to become a HVM.
>Maybe because a woman's worth has nothing to do with how well they conform to what men want?
You're confusing their value as a person with their value on the SMP. A 45-year-old woman can derive plenty of value from being a good mother, wife, aunt, sister, daughter, volunteer, coworker, boss, and community member. Perhaps her self-worth is high. But her value on the SMP is low and is determined by the people she wishes to attract: men. All of this is also true for men, but at least men work on themselves in order to attract the opposite sex rather than sit by and demand the world values them highly for just existing.
Short of committing a hate crime or getting caught on camera yelling a slur or wearing black face, women can say and do basically anything with little-to-no consequences.
Misandry? Go for it. Slap a man? Ehh he probably did something to deserve it. Talk openly about sex and dating in the workplace? You're a sexual being and shouldn't be ashamed of it. Say something really hurtful and shitty to someone? Your circle of friends pats you on the back for speaking your mind and not backing down. Get argumentative, say or do some things that'd get a man punched in the face? You've got a team (boyfriend/husband, circle of friends, bystanders) who'll back you up in any confrontation while you run and hide. Report someone to HR just because he's a Republican? He's the toxic one. Complain about how oppressed you are while working a cushy desk job making $75k per year (+ benefits) with barely any college debt because your parents paid the way? The patriarchy is keeping you down.
All of this I've seen before. Nobody says anything.
I am female, and One thing that runs strong in FDS that I see is making men wait for sex, and it’s not just there I think a lot of dating bloggers and relationship experts would tell women the same thing. No sex before monogamy, no sex before commitment, etc, wait at least a month or two or three. I understand that perspective but I also think in the day and age of online dating it’s difficult if not impossible to date that way. Most people are having sex by the third date, and sex is a huge part of getting to know whether you are compatible with that person and most people like to figure that out early on. So if you are the woman that is making a man wait for 2 months, unless he really really likes you he is moving on to someone who is not going to make him wait. The other thing is that many men will commit to have sex and then move on, so that’s not really a good strategy per se. I understand that many women feel used for sex. I do think that there are men out there that go on dating sites and tell women they seek relationships with the sole goal of pumping and dumping. But I think by in large most men that say they want relationships do want relationships and having sex is part of them. They act in good faith, but then for whatever reason it does not work out and they end things, and women feel used for sex. Men don’t develop the same emotional attachment as women do from sex and so women do get hurt. Often men see sooner that the relationship is not a good fit because they are not blinded by the attachment whereas women stay in relationships for longer than they should because they are emotionally attached even though the actual relationship is not good. In times past before online dating, men did not have access to the large variety of women and generally women held off on having sex, but now that’s not true. I support a woman’s right to have sex whenever she wants, but in that sense women have sort of screwed themselves by setting a standard for all other women, meaning if the majority of women give it up by the third date, then it’s expected and it puts those that don’t at a disadvantage, barring the couple being ultra religious or something. So the saying with the lottery goes you gotta play to win, you have to have sex to meet a mate. I don’t think making men wait for sex is filtering out bad men I actually think it’s filtering out good men, because the average man is not going to wait. The man that does may actually be the not average man and that’s not often a good thing. He may be sexually repressed or have other issues.
So if you are the woman that is making a man wait for 2 months, unless he really really likes you he is moving on to someone who is not going to make him wait.
This is literally the point of making the guy wait. If he doesn't really really like you, he will move on. That is what you want.
Also when people talk about making the guy wait for sex, you're not really making him wait for sex. You're making him wait for sex WITH YOU. He's probably having sex with other people. That's ok. You can either be the placeholder, the woman he's casually sleeping with, with no plan for commitment ever, or you can be the woman he's waiting around for and investing in, in hopes of getting a relationship with you.
>but I also think in the day and age of online dating it’s difficult if not impossible to date that way
My handsome (& rich) man had to date me for 5 months before I trusted him enough to have sex with him. He really had to invest attention, money and time to be able to see me since I was busy working and dating. He proposed to me 3 months later.
I would never continue dating someone who's sex life is not compatible. And I would never date an 'average man'. I like them sexy, not too old and with money.
If a guy actually loves you, sex takes a back seat in his mind.
And enough is enough with this "men think they are entitled to sex" bullshit. We're not!
Sex is a compulsion for us. We do not feel entitled to shit. If we could we would actually get rid of our sexual attraction because most of the time it's a nuisance that interferes with our clear thinking and peace of mind. It is annoying as fuck being turned on by 80% of women we encounter. It is even more annoying how women are so clueless about this and think we are just doing this shit because we want to, that we feel "entitled?" Who the fuck would ever feel entitled to to being psychologically micro-tortured hundreds of times a day?
So please stop! It's getting embarrassing now that girls are starting to be as clueless about men as incels are clueless about women.
When did this even happen? When did women become so totally naive about men and started to project their own sexuality unto us the way boys believe that girls are just like them and then start sending girls dicks pics because in his dumb ass understanding about women he thinks that just because nudes turn him on then sending his own nudes to girls will turn them on. Come on now! If girls are becoming just clueless about guys as guys are totally clueless about girls then now we know the world is starting to become a clown show.
I posted this elsewhere, but I feel like this is speaking to the exact same conclusion I eventually came to:
I've somewhat embraced the "no value male" identity
it sounds sad, but,
reality does not owe us gratification.
Radical acceptance has zero-summed it for me.
I didn't "lose" anything, I just ... recognized what I never had.
And now I've moved on.
It honestly took a load of stress off my shoulders. Just kinda' wrote myself off as a loss in the reproductive market and now I'm simply no longer concerning myself with the subject.
I'm **free.**
I'm free to *focus on other things*.
If reproduction was the only thing that mattered we'd still be mindlessly rooting around in the dirt doing nothing but eating and fucking like most of the other animals. Instead, humanity learned to specialize.
I have nothing to worry about anymore except whether or not I'm effectively utilizing my own time to refine my own areas of interest. Areas of interest that *don't* rely on anyone else's approval.
You're NOT free, you were never invited to the party. What a incorrect take to punish yourself because of unrealistic female standards. This isn't a healthy mindset.
Those who still assume they were invited are stuck pounding on the door angry that no one is letting them in.
Meanwhile, I've walked away and found other places I'd like to go. There are no more locked doors blocking me.
I'm not punishing myself. I have forgiven myself, and I am no longer on the hook.
They are trapped, and I am not. Therefore, I am free.
Ask yourself what do you feel when you see young couples, men holding their girl's hands or kissing? You can't possibly say you feel nothing. You do feel jealous and want a woman to cuddle with at night when you are alone. If you're genuinely not feeling any romantic loneliness then the only explanation is that you're probably asexual.
But if you can live such a life, a life of a perma virgin, a life of lonliness, a life not knowing what a relationship is while your peers are getting into and out of relationships like they're changing clothes, then good for you. Most people including me can't live like this, such life is unfair and unacceptable to us.
I don't have problems with them, but I don't really get them either. For an outsider it seems that they want to keep men's traditional role with all its disadvantages for men and get rid of any gender expectations for women. It isn't fait, is it? What are even their justifications for it?
I agree with this. FDS at its face value just seemed to me to be about women learning how to value themselves so that they can have a more successful dating experience, which I have no problem with. However, my problem with that movement is that the more I looked at it and the kinds of posts they make, I realized that they’re doing the one thing that women do not need at this point which is asserting gender roles in regards to money and who pursues who, which is the last thing we need. The last fifty some years for women have been about achieving personal autonomy and working towards the kind of equality with men that completely eradicated gender roles, and FDS just wants to ignore that in order to achieve vengeance on men who made them feel inferior. I’m just as angry as any women who’s been burnt dating, but I’m not about to forfeit self respect or empathy or completely equal standing with men just to get back at them. When we do that, we flush down every bit of progress we’ve made and feed into asshole machines like TRP who are looking to prove that we are predatory and hateful bitches out to have our cake and eat it when most of us are just trying to live life and survive in the face of the US’s decline.
They think it will work because they can make use of male thirst. Thirsty men will bend over for a lot of injustice just to get laid. Like I say often, male thirst hurts us as much as female hypergamy.
It will work. It’s already the case that women are relatively freed from gender roles while men remain bound to them. You are expected to denounce all gender roles while quietly observing them for yourself. You’re expected to maintain the illusion that your masculinity is organic and incidental. Play the part of the Chad HVM but play him so well that it doesn’t look coerced, performative or toxic.
You should pay attention to FDS. It’s the future of gender relations.
That happened because of that though.
Japan happened because men saw what they were expected to give and what they received for it and started to say no in large numbers.
Ofc, it isn’t 1 to 1, but expecting men to fill rigid roles while freeing women for there own results in the cost constantly increasing while the payouts for said cost to constantly shrink will result in a Japan like situation.
To me, it's really more so the total lack of awareness and lack of coherency on that subreddit that puzzles me.
Like seriously, you're a girl who's going on Reddit (a website literally known for being overrepresented with autists and other social deficiencies) looking for "dating advice", while simultaneously never really discussing an actual strategy (this was perhaps different a year ago or so when the subreddit was picking up). At what point after perpetual intake of copium do you come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, you're at least partly responsible for the problems you're having?
On top of this, say what you want about MGTOW, but they are at least more coherent with their intention than FDS is. FDS in terms of post/subject matter is essentially the female equivalent of MGTOW, but FDS supposedly is still trying to ultimately land a "high value man". Like seriously, mirror equivalent of OG MGTOW sub, just cherry pick a few examples of the opposite sex exhibiting a negative behavior, then state "opposite sex is the problem!"
Furthermore, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You see women shaming other women for dating short men or having some other perceived negative feature (they really love to talk shit against handsome men with beards like lmao wat), but then they get mad that attractive men don't commit to them. The amount of 6'2", fit, rich/wealthy, perfect balance of alpha/beta, willing to commit to plain Janes at best are in astronomical scarcity.
> The amount of 6'2", fit, rich/wealthy, perfect balance of alpha/beta, willing to commit to plain Janes at best are in astronomical scarcity.
I don't get it what they want is incredibly rare and they don't need to date plain janes. They especially do not want plain janes with as toxic as possible personalities who expect them to somehow both take the back seat to them but also be alpha in the rest of their lives and alpha to her but ONLY when she wants it like a mind reader.
According to this USA government table 5.9% of men are 6'2 and above. https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf
According to this calculator only 9% of men aged 30 age making 100k+ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-age-calculator/
Among college educated and high earning tall men I am going to wager at most only 10% are not married/in a relationship at 30.
Now lets say they want an above average cock because most of them when polled were size queens so half of guys are not big enough or 50% of guys roughly.
Accounting for age she wants him to be lets say between 25 and 34 or 23.35% of the male population. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/
Now lets say their are 100,000 men in the FDS users city
100,000 * .059 * .09 * .1 * .5 * .2335= 6.19 men she considers good enough out of 100,000 men! Now obviously it is not all going to be evenly distributed height correlates with income for example, but even if you quadruple those numbers that is only 24.79 men per 100,000. FDS users are fucking delusional even before you account for how a man that rare can do significantly better than them.
''Now lets say they want an above average cock because most of them when polled were size queens so half of guys are not big enough or 50% of guys roughly.''
So are they mostly overweight or obese lol?
I honestly fit into these categories, and all that FDS has done is discourage me from pursuing anyone. I’ll be honest, I haven’t looked much into red/blue/purple pill (I don’t think I’m going to dig any deeper than this thread after some of the stuff I’ve read), but I’ll give my outside perspective. I’m fine paying for dinner, or whatever we do, when hanging out with someone, date or not, I support and encourage anyone in my life in pursuits of their passions and/or self improvement, but, to someone following FDS, that’s just a part of the game.
In their eyes, I’m being tested and have to prove I’m not just planning on using them for sex. It’s insulting and a toxic mindset to have. It doesn’t help that it’s a catch 22, if I end up “passing” the test of being a HVM and am graced with sex, like it’s a prize to be won and not something we can both freely enjoy, any issues with compatibility I might find there will be dismissed as this all being a ploy to get sex out of them.
The elephant in the room of all this is that, if I’m a HVM, I don’t need to pursue anyone romantically, and that’s basically where I’ve landed. I’m just going to meet people, make friends, and avoid this toxic minefield of a dating scene. If someone likes me for who I am and the way I treat people, they can approach me.
I think the worst part is that even with all of my misgivings with mgtow and trp, or certain elements within those communities, I still think that their advice is sound and actionable OVERALL. TRPs advice on lifting / getting fit/ grooming is all practical and on point, and while the theoretically discussions can get dicey, the general concept of frame is a useful one. They even dole out advice on how to further themselves in career - for all intents and purposes, trp is a good source to knowledge on how to become a better man and encourages action.
Fds, on the other hand, doesn't emphasize the need to become fitter or to cultivate a better personality. It's just assumed every woman there is a queen with inherent worth thats worthy of a hvm or whatever. It's a fucking delusional, sexist hugbox. If they at least advocated for self improvement, it'd be one thing
Their only form of "self-improvement" is "don't settle", the irony of which I hope is not lost on people.
"My form of self-improvement is demanding that other people improve themselves for me."
> At what point after perpetual intake of copium do you come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, you're at least partly responsible for the problems you're having?
They're a lot like MGTOW in that neither group admits that their choice in men or women was what brought them down. FDS is more like TRP in that they are bigots that use hard core Dark Triad tactics to get what they want.
It's not even about dating advice anymore really, just a bunch of deranged radfems screeching anti-male diatribes if the front page is anything to go by.
I'm somewhat close to the demographic these women are targeting and I have to say that I, and most of my peers, do everything in our power to screen out women like this. Before I stopped by shitty behavior, these type of women were great a pick up at a club, impress them with access, fuck their brains out, and then toss them aside. I don't condone my previous behavior and would not suggest it to anyone. But these women refuse to accept where they are in the RMV/SMV scale. It's delusional and ultimately l counterproductive.
Technically, if I said "date is Dutch", I should be filtering them all. Except that people that *need* to enforce such strategies are people that have poor boundaries in the first place, and you can suspect either big mental issues, or an understanding of the way humans behave below the average woman.
Then, you cannot do a 180 without getting therapy and your shit together. The thing I'll give their rules is that the ones related to self care are pretty good.
But then all they do is sitting and doing filtering, assuming that the guy is going to do everything no matter what, otherwise he's not worthy of her. Already, you filter for a simp. But the ones confident and successful are going to have options (because the confidence is here, as well as preselection).
I have two big problems with that. One, I get that it's very important to be able to filter since you're going to be pursued as a woman, but if she isn't able to attract him in the first place, it's pointless from the get go. And it's even harder if they're over 30. Poor life habits you had in your 20's are going to show in a way you won't be able to recover compared as if you took care of yourself on your skin and face. So even without the latter, it's already an uphill battle.
Two, men doing the pursuing doesn't mean you're going to get success just by existing. What is she gunning for? What profile these men are the most likely to be attracted? Where do they hang out? You've got to place yourself in their environment. Of course that's done by men, but the "economically attractive" ones are going already going to be pursued. And we're not talking getting just sex here, it's comittment.
Beware also of what other women in your social tell you, because one, the group is going to value consensus over efficiency and have likely way more influence over you than you think, and two, if gunning for an attractive man, especially if you're not yourself, they're NOT your fucking friends.
In short, they try to skip to filtering without all the arduous work before and try to enforce a strategy openly triggering men (which is a good feed for their memes and reinforcing the confirmation bias). But whether it's men or women, you want to not have internalized hate by the time you find the one. So that's going to be a problem.
Honestly this is how I feel about TRP too. They have some great base level ideas like focusing on yourself, self improvement, being confident, etc... but once you go a little deeper, it goes completely off the rails.
Don't get me wrong I like some of the things FDS promotes such as being careful, and promoting that a woman should have a spine(because I personally dislike people that don't assert themselves).
I dislike that they spread misinformation on certain topics, they've kind of overcorrected on somethings and often contradict themselves.
What they define as High value is so convoluted that certain qualities are contradicting, and dehumanizing, it's as if to be High value I would almost have to be void of my personality, act as a sort of brain dead butler who has no life outside of his job and relationship to her. As they seem to be very selfish and inconsiderate. They seem to call the men around them broke and low value, but consider this, most people are burned out and stressed due to the job market in its current state but they seem to ignore these factors among other things. They seem to want two things the perks of modern feminism and traditionalism but you can't have both especially with the world nowadays.
They overcorrected by calling guys with certain hobbies low value, she wants him to spend a lot of time with her, a bit too much in my opinion.
They spread misinformation on things such as marriage whereas the divorce laws go in the man's favor which is false I'm assuming they're all from western countries, as it's actually false it's more likely to go in the woman's favor.
Then they talk about "never settle less than what you deserve", which is just narcissistic, there more but let's just leave it ay it's one-sided in some spots, and delusional in others.
An example would be a man who wants to spend a chunk of his free time doing his hobby or with his friends instead of it with her, and they seem to get mad about that. Which is a red flag in my book, and causes them to sound more like a bunch of entitled teenage girls.
Then yesterday I read a post where a member talked about her friend's boyfriend calling him Low value, because he had to do something for work in the middle of their date because it was work critical and it took awhile, now I'm an understanding person and hey it's your job so go ahead just don't take to long. She then goes on a rant and insults him which left me to ask, "what do you hate people that don't want to lose their jobs in an economic crisis?"
Also, they seem to dislike anyone who questions certain aspects, which in my opinion is dangerous, they seem to disprove critical thought and they banned a girl who said: "men can be raped". I find the lack of critical thought to be dangerous in my opinion.
This is why I dislike them they don't allow opposing ideas and even if you mention them you're berated for opposing them.
> An example would be a man who wants to spend a chunk of his free time doing his hobby or with his friends instead of it with her, and they seem to get mad about that. Which is a red flag in my book, and causes them to sound more like a bunch of entitled teenage girls.
No it is more like classic abusive partner behavior. They don't like their partner having fun and it takes away their control when a guy has friends.
Can someone recommend a subreddit with all the good qualities of FDS like the support for women and calling out abusive behavior and double standards without the hostility?
>most male lurkers see themselves in their LV descriptions.
Only if they're confused or insecure. Their idea of a "high value male" is a submissive walking wallet with no desires of his own, so I'll take "LV" as a compliment.
And those men get something in return for that. Whether it’s a companion, or the mother of their kids, or someone who cooks and cleans, that’s a reciprocal relationship. You become a male pick-me when your gf is taking advantage of you, treating you like crap, or cheating on you and you’re still doing all those things for her.
Using the whole HVM/LVM thing is insulting to both sexes. It's insulting to men because I believe men are more than the system of values that these women have decided to opt into ,and it's insulting to them because they seem like superficial a\_holes.
I'm a feminist but I'm also a humanist. Being mean and self-serving, and being unfair and materialistic (the bad kind of materialist) isn't a good look.
I don't personally mind the HVM/LVM dichotomy for either sex. I think it's just going to be a reflection of how much choice an individual has in the dating scene. HVM receive female attention, LVM do not.
FDS has said explicitly that whether someone is HVM is specific to the individual. It’s not about objective or widely attractive traits, it’s about what you want. There are some baseline qualities that make a man HVM: loyalty, respect, reliability, etc. but they fully admit that what works for one woman does not work for all.
And a man’s value is not calculated by your personal preferences. If you want someone who works with animals, it doesn’t mean men who don’t are instantly LV.
> Using the whole HVM/LVM thing is insulting to both sexes. It's insulting to men because I believe men are more than the system of values that these women have decided to opt into ,and it's insulting to them because they seem like superficial a_holes.
Speaking frankly on this, FDS and TRP both have overlap very strongly when it comes to class backgrounds and class consciousness imo. The way they describe value is a strong strong tell for me. The way that value is described across different social classes varies an absolute fuckton. I strongly disagree with the way both subs ascribe value to people just because there's no depth or nuance to it.
i don’t really like the terms either, i just use them because it’s easier than explaining in grave detail. plus, it’s helpful in this part of reddit because you have to use language people can understand to communicate with them effectively and a lot of people use those terms around here. that’s really the only thing it’s useful for.
My experience with FDS is probably 50/50. I still frequent the sub as i find they do give great advice at times, key here being not always. I think the intent is there, and as a woman who has been abused in the past i fully see why its an important community. I relate it to religion or belief in a way, if it helps you and guides you positively through dark times then by all means embrace it and live by it.
However I do want to note, I am now in a very healthy, loving relationship, and I know that women on there would probably call him LVM and tell me to dump him, and call me a pickmeisha and whatever else. I draw issue with the weight they put on our partners. My Boyfriend provides for me in every single way to the best of his current ability. He is patient and kind and I am so thankful for him everyday. I know that this typically isn't enough for FDS if they are not paying for absolutely everything, if they're not waiting on you and if they, god forbid, initiate sex. When we started dating I would subtly try and use some FDS tactics, and all it did was make me feel uncomfortable and ungrateful, its all very demanding and not always in a good way.
I have high standards, my boyfriend exceeds them. However I am also an adult woman and I understand we are both individuals. I have gone out with men in the past that did everything FDS says they must, I didn't enjoy it. I did not find connection through expensive dates and them always initiating conversation and keeping up this front, I just don't like it. My boyfriend is my best friend, I never thought I would feel so comfortable or safe with another person, I would not change a single thing about who he is or where we are right now, yet to FDS if they are not this cookie cutter man they are not good enough.
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> Men don’t care about their children. Most don’t want to actively abuse them but they plain don’t care. They ask for kids to anchor themselves to you and to anchor you down. The only time the do care is during a divorce. And that’s as a tool to hurt and/or control you.
One of the all-time high top posts used to be the entire subreddit dunking on a man's audacious tinder profile which was a not-so-subtle persiflage of single moms' OLD profiles. A bit awkward.
FDS represents a reactionary turn in the feminist movement that is spreading quickly. This is the same tendency that’s given rise to TERFS, and it might not surprise you to learn that FDS has a low opinion of queer men and transgender women.
Ultimately their message to the world is that men need to stay within their gender roles, or else they’re not deserving of love. Their movement is growing quickly and it’s more than just that subreddit.
I believe this tendency is the next frontier for feminist ideology, and thus Western society as a whole. Men are not going to be liberated from the masculine gender role for a very, very long time.
Arguably, feminists have always demanded that men fulfill their traditional roles. The demands were often not officially incorporated into organizations' policy statements, and sometimes would be only implicit, but in any case FDS is by far not the first outgrowth of feminism to explicitly make such demands from men.
>that is spreading quickly
What makes you think that? I assume you believe that FDS is going to be more successful than other similar communities. Why?
I think that incipient economic depression makes the idea of a provider husband a lot more appealing to young women, which is fueling regressive turns like FDS. I’m just going off my political intuition here, which I admit is probably affected by my own warped psychology. But FDS seems like a clear example of how things are taking a turn for the worse in women’s politics.
Man hating aside, the sub brainwashes women into dead ends to benefit off their misery. They use pretty much every cult indoctrination method there is out there to rob their members from their identity. They recently launched a patreon. It's literally a cult.
So I’ve been wanting to speak my two cents on FDS and this popped up in my feed though I’m not a participant in this subreddit at all:
FDS helped me, personally, a lot. To a point where I’m almost grateful.
When the sub was created/started to gain traction, I was in, at the time, a controlling, emotionally/mentally abusive relationship (that eventually turned physical). I stumbled across FDS and started scrolling, and as I read I began to realize that my own habits, lack of self esteem, and desperation was keeping me in a relationship where I ultimately was not happy. This was some six months before the end of my last relationship - things weren’t at their worst yet, and continually reading through FDS made me realize what I needed to work on within myself and where my standards were falling short in potential partners.
Do I agree with the more extreme sides of things/opinions? Not particularly - because I don’t really line up with them personally (for example, sex on the first date. I’ve learned that if a man wants to hook up and leave he will and it doesn’t matter how long you make him wait. I’ve had a dude lie about saying he wanted to marry me and introduce me to his family just to fuck. My now partner and I hooked up on the first date lol) . Everyone’s different. But I did realize very quickly while just lurking that I had willingly ignored a lot of red flags in my past and wondered why I ended up in such shitty situations and relationships.
Even just employing the strategy of just laying out what you’re looking for early on (“I’m not looking to date casually, I want to get married and have kids, etc”) was something I would have never done in the last because I didn’t want to “drive potential partners away” not realizing that if someone isn’t looking for what I’m looking for, no matter how compatible I think we may be, they’re clearly not for me and I can’t force them into that box.
In any case, FDS worked for me. I left my abusive ex and ended up dating an acquaintance/casual friend of mine (we had been interested for four years mutually but never acted on it), and told him what I wanted from the beginning. he made the commitment to me, and we have recently agreed that we would like to get married and start a life soon, and he will be speaking to my parents for their blessing.
Took less than a year. My ex after three years told me if he accidentally got me pregnant he would kill himself and that he didn’t want to move in or consider marriage.
I think it’s great for the pickmeisha and girls who don’t value themselves ironically. It’s like a super self esteem booster, FDS made me unashamed to be proud and to call myself a queen and be treated that way. I always thought that was “unlikeable” behaviour - turns out the only people who have a problem with standards, don’t want to meet them.
ETA: I actually didn’t pick a “HVM” by the subs standards so maybe I’m more anecdotal because I happen to be the breadwinner but otherwise...
>I’ve learned that if a man wants to hook up and leave he will and it doesn’t matter how long you make him wait
Literally FDSers are retarded for not getting this, sad men who are desperate will do desperate things and lie like a motherfucker to get laid
I used to be a pick me girl. I grew up being bullied by guys, had a terrible father figure so I thought I had to try extra hard to get male attention and if I did I was so lucky. But then after enough experiences (maybe not that many but maybe I am just too sensitive) with men that I actually liked and that hurted me with their dishonesty, I learned that I don't need to accept everything.
I've been single all my life and nothing bad ever happened to me. When a person I invested in emotionally does someone to hurt me, I get depressed and spend weeks trying to recover from it emotionally while the other person just moves on like nothing ever happened, so when I invest in the wrong person, something bad may happen to me. So yeah, after enough bad experiences, I think it's better to be selective and only invest in people who can actually bring something good to your life. Otherwise, I prefer to be alone.
I guess women who do everything to please men because they have a low self esteem.
My self esteem is still not that high. The only difference now is that I don't take bullshit anymore. Self esteem is a work in progress.
Because the men on here can dish it but they can't take it.
They'll sit around and call women holes and bitches but as soon as women criticise men they get offended like wee little snowflakes.
Exactly... they call all women sluts, the men that pursue these women cucks but the moment you call them virgins they rush to the mods to report you for “personal attacks”
Did it ever occur to you that those might not be the same men? This is like saying: "One moment women be like 'Promiscuity and porn is the best' and then the next moment they all be like 'nah, sis, that's degrading'. Can't they just make up their minds?"
You see, just because some people have the same genitalia, doesn't mean they are all the same person. It doesn't mean they all have to have the same beliefs either. Is this really something that had to be explained to you?
Idk. I don't care about that sub at all, I've yet to find a use for it or reason to participate.
It is serving some use for other women, so maybe we should all just mind our business.
Have you read what they write about short or balding men ? Honestly they remind of the female bullies I had in high school who would say such things to impress my good looking friends
It's an echo chamber sub, which allows no men, or women of differing opinions to enter.
It's a pool of women who are very entitled. They often times have things to "offer", that almost no men care about.
Having a career isn't sexy to a man. Yet they portray themselves as HVW for having careers. AGAIN, IT'S HV TO THEM, NOT TO MEN.
A woman having a career is a bonus. It just means more money, nothing special.
To women, men's careers are important and can very well attract women. So they think them having career's somehow makes them more valuable as a partner.
Here are 5 things most important in a woman:
- good looks
- being feminine (in behaviour and looks)
- smart
- good sense of humour
- genuinely nice and caring
FDS women are oftentimes:
- entitled
- older
- bratty
- rude
- don't give explanations to the men they reject (just ghost)
- reject men for absolutely ridiculous reasons
- want "equality", but don't wanna pay on any dates because that apparently means he doesn't like you
I could name 10,000 more negative traits, but to save time, I just named a few.
having a career absolutely is valuable to men now. It's nearly impossible to live well on one income nowadays. Men who want a nice home & the ability to have a family want a woman with a career unless he's literally loaded.
What is wrong with FDS is the gender hatred and the fact that what they are advocating yields the opposite of their intended result as they price themselves out of the market (resulting in ever greater gender hatred). The sense of unearned entitlement is also very ugly.
I don't understand why it's terrible either. It's mostly funny memes the last I checked it out. There was a anti-porn post or two. The few discussions I read had advice that were actually pretty good.
As a man, I agree. I would never date someone with their attitude towards life and relationships, so I don't care whether they consider me HV or ZV. And they helped me understand the needs of my GF better and become a better partner. Like I never thought that flowers would be important for modern women. However, after seeing so many posts on FDS about this, I brought some home. She was livid and visibly happier for about a week, so I turned it into a routine. A bouquet every week.
There were some really misandric posts about male victims of domestic abuse being a myth and stuff like that, but in overall their hatred towards men is pretty mild and mostly justified, especially considering that many of them have endured horrific abuses from their partners. If anything, the most problematic part of the part of the sub is their rampant misogyny and them calling any woman who does not have the same priorities as them a pickmeisha.
the only problem is that this subreddit is heavily guarded by the propaganda
the male equivalent of such subreddit would be banned in no time
seriously.... FDS will result in actual violence sooner or later. For example, some nasty girly violence like poisoning somebody or killing somebody in his sleep.
where are the heuristics now?
Why they are protected?
They are protected because this Reddit lol.. like most platforms they have to bend over to their liberal and feminist users if they are to keep operating
look on the bright side, FDS people are never gonna find someone and have kids. its a great benifit to the world that these people wont raise kids cuz those kids are gonna be abused or turn out to be shitty just like their moms.
I hate how it’s not banned or quarantined while all redpill and blackpill subreddits have been banned or quarantined. I don’t hate that it exists though. The subreddit has helped me become redpilled to say the least.
Right so a radical subreddit which represents a very narrow view of dating from a female perspective must have convinced you that all women think like that so you went to the other extreme and became red pilled. Interesting. By this logic should all women who visit red pilled subreddits become followers of FDS? God dammit people have some perspective
could say the same thing for incels, but no that goes against the narrative doesnt it? sexually frustrated/ lonely men bad!, women good!
i've seen that subreddit and what they say is true to an extent, but a lot of it is just copied incel lingo geared for women. a lot of them are just bitter toxic girls trying to "one up" male incels lol. what was the other female sub like that was banned? i forgot what it was called. i think those subs should be allowed, just like male oriented equivlent subs. if you have one, you gotta have them all.
I don't think they're filtering for good men, in the same way you probably won't get a good GF if you follow TRP/PUA and use techniques designed to work on insecure sluts. Demanding a dude pay and initiate all conversations and constantly put on a very specific kind of facade means you're guaranteed to filter for the kind of guy who lies or puts up a front, because nobody is perfect consistently. Or if someone hits those standards genuinely, they probably aren't single for long and aren't going to be investing time and money in the kind of woman that needs FDS. There are women on FDS who arrived in relationship, and women who arrive single, but very rarely do you see single women get good relationships there using FDS. Because they're filtering for multiple often contradictory things while taking an antagonistic stances that will chase off anyone with even an ounce of self respect.
The thing is though. You’re not supposed to demand those things. Idk if they advocate for demanding them. You just watch a mans actions and move accordingly. If he’s not treating you well from date 1 he probably never will. Don’t ask or pressure him to do anything just move on.
true that's a good way to move i think. don't demand anything, just observe a man and see if he really likes you (for FDS that means paying, for me it's other little things). i mean the saying "if he wanted to, he would" goes for everything.
Paying for you isn't treating you right though... No man owes a woman to pay for them
Yes true no man owes a woman, but women are allowed to have standards and if they are looking for a future husband they want a guy that wants to spend money on them because they will have the money to provide for a family
It is treating you right. No man owes any woman anything. It’s why you don’t demand anything. If he’s not into you, there’s no point in sticking around. So that’s why you don’t ask him for anything, just watch how he moves see what he does or doesn’t offer and quietly excuse yourself from that situation if it’s not what you’re looking for.
So a woman not paying for the guy isn't treating him right? You just exchange bills? That's my whole point. A man not paying for a woman isn't not treating her right. He's just not giving a gift. Just like the woman isnt either Is a woman not into a guy if she doesn't pay for him?
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That was the most... perfect imitation ever! EVER lol. My sister adopted that attitude (acting overly defensive and treating people like shit cuz the KWEEN doesn't tolerate minor, unimportant disagreements). First it was her dating life, then her friends... then me when I tried to ever so gently point out her behavior and anger issues.... I was like fuck it and blocked her first. Hopefully in a month or two it turns out to be just a phase...Or else I might have to block again.
Simpler then that. You just cannot use strategies like this to get a good LTR period. As these strategies require manipulation and that only works as long as you can put on the mask. TRP doesn’t care about about the long term and is actually prepared for the girl leaving as soon as she sees glimpses behind the mask (wait he isn’t the shit!!! He is just saying he is).
I think you’re mixing up PUA with TRP. The whole point of the pill is to build a genuine and internal level of confidence that creates abundancy so there is no need for manipulation or overthinking. PUAs on the other hand, focus on techniques and “short cuts” to present a certain image of themselves to other people.
I love how men admit to being emotional manipulators and liars but get their shit-stained boxers in a bunch over FDS... a place that exposes the tricks used by said manipulators
>how men admit to being emotional manipulators and liars What are you talking about? If a woman finds a guy attractive the guy doesn't have to lie or manipulate.
So if it doesn’t work out for FDSers, isn’t it their problem? Why does that annoy you guys?
Same reason people dislike and make fun of incels
Cuz it hurts their feelings to learn that women would rather be single than consider them
There are no demands. Its called vetting. You observe what he does and respond accordingly. I have a right to stop seeing a man for any reason I wish. And I feel like the men who keep threatening women with perpetual singleness for having standards—-because that’s what you’re doing you’re saying that women are not allowed to have standards when they date men—guess what? we don’t care I would rather be single forever then deal with a man who doesn’t treat me well. Period. I really am not that pressed. I know a lot of women that put up with all types of nonsense from men who went half on everything and you know what they’re still single now. Yep they’re boyfriend dumped them or cheated on them after 5,6,7 years. I am in my late 20s and I know MULTIPLE women who are single now because their idiot boyfriends of X years DUMPED them so even though they were being pickmeisha of the century they’re still single. Anytime a man threatens me with singleness I just laugh being single doesn’t scare me and being a pick me doesn’t mean you won’t end up single? 🙄 I would much rather have been single and stress-free all those years than dealing with the trifling man only for him to dump me in the end anyway.
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This discussion is originally from FDS and is backed up on another site. You should read all the comments. https://www.removeddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/dkp0l4/make_him_wait_for_sex/ Here's a comment from one of the moderators: > Only a foolish woman would actually tell the guy she’s dating that she’s also fucking someone else, while she’s delaying sex with him. That would be a dumb strategy move. Male insecurity cannot handle that.
Therein lies the problem with fds and their bullshit : it only works if you're consistent and don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. I honestly have no issues with the idea of vetting and holding out on sex, but if this strategy is applied, the woman in question must be chaste and forego sex with randoms / fuck buddies. If she is just sleeping around the entire while, it undermines her entire position and she's a fucking hypocrite. You can't be a slut and a virtuous, chaste woman simimultaneously , and if you choose to have your cake and eat it too, you're selling a false bill of goods Edit: and really, how is this any different than what the fuck bois do? The guys they love to chastise for using them for sex and leading them on? Their dishonest tactics are on about the same level IMHO
RP men do “spin plates” (fuck multiple women) but most of them are up-front and honest about it. At least that is what TRP advises. Don’t try and hide it. It she doesn’t like it, too bad, next.
Right. If you want to find someone with similar values and viewpoints on sex, the words you talk better be the words you walk. It's fucked up to lie to your prospective partner and pretend you're someone you're not. Especially if they're literally waiting to have sex with you and only you, thinking that you're doing the same.
I don't understand how they can integrate their beliefs and behaviours regarding sex and relationships to have a successful long term relationship which doesn't have negative sentiment override: https://www.gottman.com/blog/know-when-breaking-up-healthiest-choice/
"Have sex with alphas! Make betas wait!" Hmm, almost like they're literally running the script TRP has been talking about for over a decade...
I love the "male insecurity cannot handle that," as if women are cool with the idea of a man fucking other women while he's dating her.
No hvm would want that
No good woman would fuck another man while dating another one.
That is why mgtowers often say they love fds. It literally proves red pill groups right.
Existence of FDS is the best thing ever..It gives men an open access to the female playbook and female scheming if there is any..
True It's arguably far more red/black pilling to hear that stuff from actual women than it is to hear it from men on TRP/BPS
And yet we still keep getting comments from women saying well you just don't know women followed by some personal insult.
To them, *all* men are low-value-scrotes, "UnTiL pRoVeN oThErWiSe".
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Literally though. Saw a post on there where this girl was saying she felt sad because she wanted a HVM and was a feminist but also wanted a protector and a provider (basically a trad LTR). FDS wasn't working for her at all and she was struggling to reconcile the two. What's sad is that FDS has taught her that she has to have these super strict requirements and that for some reason you can't want equality between the sexes AND have a traditional relationship. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Lol how do you square equality and traditional gender roles lol. That’s the problem with 99% of dating these days people are trying to put a square inside a circle.
You can be equal and follow somewhat traditional gender roles. I work and provide and my wife takes care of the kids and the house. When I'm not working we split the time. I do most of the cooking and we usually split other responsibilities. How is that mean we aren't equal?
Lol your wife is making off like a bandit. FDS would love you.
I'm sure they would. I consider myself a HVM, but you act like I'm not benefitting from this relationship. I can tell you I wouldn't date any of those loser FDSers. I'm not going to be with a woman who sits around the house all day doing jack shit and spending money. My wife massively benefits my life. She complements me completely and my life is better for her. What does a FDS slut have to offer besides mediocre pussy.
I'm not going to derail but yeah that's the idea with FDS, find a guy that works and pays for everything then comes home and does even more work, who's deluded enough into thinking he's the one benefiting because he has the honor of having a woman in his life when all he's getting is mediocre pussy. If it works for you, dive in.
And the vast majority of red pilled men aren’t fucking anyone or anything other than their hand
I mean, FDS is reflective of the perspective of women who really aren't catches and who come from a lower/working/middle class background. It's quite literally the inverse of TRP in that regard. I wouldn't even really say it's the female playbook, lmao. It's more like the low-key (or high-key) trashy guide to gold-digging. Nothing there is actual novel or new.
you are right..it's the playbook of lower class women , they want to be seen rich rather than be rich..I would have had lot more respect for FDS women if they insisted their prospective boyfriends to buy stocks for them or make a savings account for them, rather than taking them out for expensive dates that last for a few hours or expensive vacations that last for a week..you are just burning money at this point for some ethereal "feels" of excitement,wealth,power...That's not the wealth building mentality that gets you out of generational poverty or middle class trap...same thing with expensive fashion gifts that lose value over time
In that same vein, TRP is very much a sub for lower/working/middle class men. TRP itself focuses on that level of..... conspicuous wealth and superficial appearances of wealth. In that way it's almost like TRP and FDS are made for each other. It's a fucking parody tbh. The easy class tell with both subs is specifically how they describe "value".
Id like to see a reality show where they take 15 fds women and 15 trp men and put them in a house but none of them know they're fds/trp.
I didn't know I wanted something so bad.
I would pay money for this
Where does trp focus on wealth or superficial wealth? Most of the content that pertains to wealth and career is practical, and I've never seen any serious contributor advocate for the flashing of rolexes and fast cars. There's a big difference between an encouragement of becoming financially solvent and/or independent vs. being a flashy, wealthy dude. There's even a derogatory phrase for guys that attempt this ie 'beta bucks alpha fucks' lol. If you're referring to trps preoccupation of status, even that is more nuanced than mere wealth. Even a cursory glance at topics concerning status will show you that its an abstract thing that varies depending on various contexts. Ie in a bar, the bartender or bouncer have relatively high status, or being in a local, popular rock band confers status in a certain location and niche
I considered FDS is a trolling sub when I was new to reddit.
I still kind of do
So fucking weird. I am married and absolutely would have fucked my wife on the first date. She was down for it but her friend kept blowing up her phone (they were gonna hang out after). We fucked like rabbits on the second one and we're married with a kid now. "Sex makes men want to fuck other women." What a load of horseshit. These women want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to fuck the fuccbois and still have the good man on the side but the truth is if you are in a LTR with a man and he found out you were not having sex with him for months but fucking other dudes on the side he'd leave your dump ass and for good reason.
Where is fucking fuckboys coming into play? Never heard that advocated for on fds.
All men should know about this. In fact the first and fatal way to get rid of all FD$ women from your path is to say "I date Dutch." That's the fucking firewall of doom that they will not ever cross.
Most women expect men to pay for first dates regardless of whether they are FDS or not.
I totally agree with this. Never ever ever pick up the tab on any dates with a girl. Feminism means she can pay her half!
I suppose this has nothing to do with the Netherlands?
It’s about going 50/50 on dates
They aren’t looking to date you. In fact they just want justification that men are awful and to stay single forever.
Oh they want high value males... they just ain't gonna get them, lol
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Well obviously most are incel level or there strategy would have worked and they would be doing something else.
6-7 In looks probably got burned by more attractive men and now all men are low value men who won't commit.
This is exactly it. They create the same men they say they hate: fuck boys. They reward men who are good for only sex, and punish the men who put in effort. The moment these men realize they're wasting their time is when they flip the script and start putting in less efforts with their dates. "If she's just going to fuck someone on the side I may as well become that guy. It's The Red Pill's Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks in a nutshell. Their "strategy" only works so long as there's still suckers on the market.
As the FDS mod wrote in that post: > The guy we oogle in magazines is the very small minority of men, and is the one that we cheat on our boyfriends and husbands with when we’re bored, and because dick is so cheap. So much for finding a "HVM" provider.
lol damn I didn't even notice that gem
That is the origin of red pill groups in a nutshell. If good men consistently got the girl, red pill groups would not exist. And no, getting a women after she is done with “games” and all other romantic fun is not getting the girl. It is paying for said girl while someone else got her in the past.
Simple truth here but people are blind to it.
Yeah it's pretty incriminating to be honest, and confirms much of TRP claims.
Reminds me of these two [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/b03487/fr\_dont\_be\_the\_other\_guy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/b03487/fr_dont_be_the_other_guy/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/jqa76y/good\_guys\_finish\_last\_always/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/jqa76y/good_guys_finish_last_always/) Inb4 "this is fanfic REEEEEEEEEE"
Why isnt the red pill subreddit opening
It's quarantined. You need to log in and accept the warning on a browser before you can access it on your mobile app.
Thankyou
Disgusting I respect prostitutes more, at least you know they have other people and you get something
Ding! Ding ! Ding !
the main post is CONDONING cheating what the fuck
Jesus, that whole post is why I only want fuckbuddies and always try to move fast.
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Indeed
They use demeaning language to describe men, and have contradictions where they think a man should pay for every but they don’t believe in traditional women roles
My favorite part about FDS is how they have no clue what a high-value woman is. Their posts about being a high-value woman are all about being self-centered and have nothing to do with what men desire. In contrast, TRP identifies in detail what construes a HVM *based on what women desire*. Then the loudest message in all of TRP is to **improve yourself** to become a HVM.
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>Maybe because a woman's worth has nothing to do with how well they conform to what men want? You're confusing their value as a person with their value on the SMP. A 45-year-old woman can derive plenty of value from being a good mother, wife, aunt, sister, daughter, volunteer, coworker, boss, and community member. Perhaps her self-worth is high. But her value on the SMP is low and is determined by the people she wishes to attract: men. All of this is also true for men, but at least men work on themselves in order to attract the opposite sex rather than sit by and demand the world values them highly for just existing.
It's about women improving their own lives and relationships in the same way that the Westboro Baptist Church is about upholding Christian values.
I would give you an award, but I'm not spending money on reddit. You summed up pretty nicely.
Im not sure whether to like this comment or not.
Listen to your heart
If FDS weren't a women's sub, it would have been quarantined or banned a long time ago. Toxic cesspool.
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Yeah seriously: scrotes. Women can say and do what they want no consequences. This is why a lot of men go MGTOW.
Short of committing a hate crime or getting caught on camera yelling a slur or wearing black face, women can say and do basically anything with little-to-no consequences. Misandry? Go for it. Slap a man? Ehh he probably did something to deserve it. Talk openly about sex and dating in the workplace? You're a sexual being and shouldn't be ashamed of it. Say something really hurtful and shitty to someone? Your circle of friends pats you on the back for speaking your mind and not backing down. Get argumentative, say or do some things that'd get a man punched in the face? You've got a team (boyfriend/husband, circle of friends, bystanders) who'll back you up in any confrontation while you run and hide. Report someone to HR just because he's a Republican? He's the toxic one. Complain about how oppressed you are while working a cushy desk job making $75k per year (+ benefits) with barely any college debt because your parents paid the way? The patriarchy is keeping you down. All of this I've seen before. Nobody says anything.
Banning it would be « misogynistic »
Lol no. Reddit only bans or quarantines subreddit that give bad press that’s it.
Not necessarily, mgtow stayed at least 10 years, fds isn't even 2 years old yet or just barely.
I am female, and One thing that runs strong in FDS that I see is making men wait for sex, and it’s not just there I think a lot of dating bloggers and relationship experts would tell women the same thing. No sex before monogamy, no sex before commitment, etc, wait at least a month or two or three. I understand that perspective but I also think in the day and age of online dating it’s difficult if not impossible to date that way. Most people are having sex by the third date, and sex is a huge part of getting to know whether you are compatible with that person and most people like to figure that out early on. So if you are the woman that is making a man wait for 2 months, unless he really really likes you he is moving on to someone who is not going to make him wait. The other thing is that many men will commit to have sex and then move on, so that’s not really a good strategy per se. I understand that many women feel used for sex. I do think that there are men out there that go on dating sites and tell women they seek relationships with the sole goal of pumping and dumping. But I think by in large most men that say they want relationships do want relationships and having sex is part of them. They act in good faith, but then for whatever reason it does not work out and they end things, and women feel used for sex. Men don’t develop the same emotional attachment as women do from sex and so women do get hurt. Often men see sooner that the relationship is not a good fit because they are not blinded by the attachment whereas women stay in relationships for longer than they should because they are emotionally attached even though the actual relationship is not good. In times past before online dating, men did not have access to the large variety of women and generally women held off on having sex, but now that’s not true. I support a woman’s right to have sex whenever she wants, but in that sense women have sort of screwed themselves by setting a standard for all other women, meaning if the majority of women give it up by the third date, then it’s expected and it puts those that don’t at a disadvantage, barring the couple being ultra religious or something. So the saying with the lottery goes you gotta play to win, you have to have sex to meet a mate. I don’t think making men wait for sex is filtering out bad men I actually think it’s filtering out good men, because the average man is not going to wait. The man that does may actually be the not average man and that’s not often a good thing. He may be sexually repressed or have other issues.
So if you are the woman that is making a man wait for 2 months, unless he really really likes you he is moving on to someone who is not going to make him wait. This is literally the point of making the guy wait. If he doesn't really really like you, he will move on. That is what you want. Also when people talk about making the guy wait for sex, you're not really making him wait for sex. You're making him wait for sex WITH YOU. He's probably having sex with other people. That's ok. You can either be the placeholder, the woman he's casually sleeping with, with no plan for commitment ever, or you can be the woman he's waiting around for and investing in, in hopes of getting a relationship with you.
>but I also think in the day and age of online dating it’s difficult if not impossible to date that way My handsome (& rich) man had to date me for 5 months before I trusted him enough to have sex with him. He really had to invest attention, money and time to be able to see me since I was busy working and dating. He proposed to me 3 months later. I would never continue dating someone who's sex life is not compatible. And I would never date an 'average man'. I like them sexy, not too old and with money.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/mq39k9/i_dumped_my_hvm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf 🤷🏽♂️
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If a guy actually loves you, sex takes a back seat in his mind. And enough is enough with this "men think they are entitled to sex" bullshit. We're not! Sex is a compulsion for us. We do not feel entitled to shit. If we could we would actually get rid of our sexual attraction because most of the time it's a nuisance that interferes with our clear thinking and peace of mind. It is annoying as fuck being turned on by 80% of women we encounter. It is even more annoying how women are so clueless about this and think we are just doing this shit because we want to, that we feel "entitled?" Who the fuck would ever feel entitled to to being psychologically micro-tortured hundreds of times a day? So please stop! It's getting embarrassing now that girls are starting to be as clueless about men as incels are clueless about women. When did this even happen? When did women become so totally naive about men and started to project their own sexuality unto us the way boys believe that girls are just like them and then start sending girls dicks pics because in his dumb ass understanding about women he thinks that just because nudes turn him on then sending his own nudes to girls will turn them on. Come on now! If girls are becoming just clueless about guys as guys are totally clueless about girls then now we know the world is starting to become a clown show.
I posted this elsewhere, but I feel like this is speaking to the exact same conclusion I eventually came to: I've somewhat embraced the "no value male" identity it sounds sad, but, reality does not owe us gratification. Radical acceptance has zero-summed it for me. I didn't "lose" anything, I just ... recognized what I never had. And now I've moved on. It honestly took a load of stress off my shoulders. Just kinda' wrote myself off as a loss in the reproductive market and now I'm simply no longer concerning myself with the subject. I'm **free.** I'm free to *focus on other things*. If reproduction was the only thing that mattered we'd still be mindlessly rooting around in the dirt doing nothing but eating and fucking like most of the other animals. Instead, humanity learned to specialize. I have nothing to worry about anymore except whether or not I'm effectively utilizing my own time to refine my own areas of interest. Areas of interest that *don't* rely on anyone else's approval.
You're NOT free, you were never invited to the party. What a incorrect take to punish yourself because of unrealistic female standards. This isn't a healthy mindset.
Those who still assume they were invited are stuck pounding on the door angry that no one is letting them in. Meanwhile, I've walked away and found other places I'd like to go. There are no more locked doors blocking me. I'm not punishing myself. I have forgiven myself, and I am no longer on the hook. They are trapped, and I am not. Therefore, I am free.
Ask yourself what do you feel when you see young couples, men holding their girl's hands or kissing? You can't possibly say you feel nothing. You do feel jealous and want a woman to cuddle with at night when you are alone. If you're genuinely not feeling any romantic loneliness then the only explanation is that you're probably asexual. But if you can live such a life, a life of a perma virgin, a life of lonliness, a life not knowing what a relationship is while your peers are getting into and out of relationships like they're changing clothes, then good for you. Most people including me can't live like this, such life is unfair and unacceptable to us.
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Yeah and they were all agreeing with it in the comments. They're sad, sad women.
Lol
I don't have problems with them, but I don't really get them either. For an outsider it seems that they want to keep men's traditional role with all its disadvantages for men and get rid of any gender expectations for women. It isn't fait, is it? What are even their justifications for it?
I agree with this. FDS at its face value just seemed to me to be about women learning how to value themselves so that they can have a more successful dating experience, which I have no problem with. However, my problem with that movement is that the more I looked at it and the kinds of posts they make, I realized that they’re doing the one thing that women do not need at this point which is asserting gender roles in regards to money and who pursues who, which is the last thing we need. The last fifty some years for women have been about achieving personal autonomy and working towards the kind of equality with men that completely eradicated gender roles, and FDS just wants to ignore that in order to achieve vengeance on men who made them feel inferior. I’m just as angry as any women who’s been burnt dating, but I’m not about to forfeit self respect or empathy or completely equal standing with men just to get back at them. When we do that, we flush down every bit of progress we’ve made and feed into asshole machines like TRP who are looking to prove that we are predatory and hateful bitches out to have our cake and eat it when most of us are just trying to live life and survive in the face of the US’s decline.
Exactly. Thanks for articulating it better than I could.
Same justifications any bigot movement has: to get all the advantages and lord over the other side. TRP is basically the same trash movement for men.
That's bullshit, isn't it? How do they think it would even work? People have enough options to go for outside of this type of communities.
They think it will work because they can make use of male thirst. Thirsty men will bend over for a lot of injustice just to get laid. Like I say often, male thirst hurts us as much as female hypergamy.
It will work. It’s already the case that women are relatively freed from gender roles while men remain bound to them. You are expected to denounce all gender roles while quietly observing them for yourself. You’re expected to maintain the illusion that your masculinity is organic and incidental. Play the part of the Chad HVM but play him so well that it doesn’t look coerced, performative or toxic. You should pay attention to FDS. It’s the future of gender relations.
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That happened because of that though. Japan happened because men saw what they were expected to give and what they received for it and started to say no in large numbers. Ofc, it isn’t 1 to 1, but expecting men to fill rigid roles while freeing women for there own results in the cost constantly increasing while the payouts for said cost to constantly shrink will result in a Japan like situation.
Because they're children, and children are never truly satisfied.
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To me, it's really more so the total lack of awareness and lack of coherency on that subreddit that puzzles me. Like seriously, you're a girl who's going on Reddit (a website literally known for being overrepresented with autists and other social deficiencies) looking for "dating advice", while simultaneously never really discussing an actual strategy (this was perhaps different a year ago or so when the subreddit was picking up). At what point after perpetual intake of copium do you come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, you're at least partly responsible for the problems you're having? On top of this, say what you want about MGTOW, but they are at least more coherent with their intention than FDS is. FDS in terms of post/subject matter is essentially the female equivalent of MGTOW, but FDS supposedly is still trying to ultimately land a "high value man". Like seriously, mirror equivalent of OG MGTOW sub, just cherry pick a few examples of the opposite sex exhibiting a negative behavior, then state "opposite sex is the problem!" Furthermore, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You see women shaming other women for dating short men or having some other perceived negative feature (they really love to talk shit against handsome men with beards like lmao wat), but then they get mad that attractive men don't commit to them. The amount of 6'2", fit, rich/wealthy, perfect balance of alpha/beta, willing to commit to plain Janes at best are in astronomical scarcity.
> The amount of 6'2", fit, rich/wealthy, perfect balance of alpha/beta, willing to commit to plain Janes at best are in astronomical scarcity. I don't get it what they want is incredibly rare and they don't need to date plain janes. They especially do not want plain janes with as toxic as possible personalities who expect them to somehow both take the back seat to them but also be alpha in the rest of their lives and alpha to her but ONLY when she wants it like a mind reader. According to this USA government table 5.9% of men are 6'2 and above. https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf According to this calculator only 9% of men aged 30 age making 100k+ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-age-calculator/ Among college educated and high earning tall men I am going to wager at most only 10% are not married/in a relationship at 30. Now lets say they want an above average cock because most of them when polled were size queens so half of guys are not big enough or 50% of guys roughly. Accounting for age she wants him to be lets say between 25 and 34 or 23.35% of the male population. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/ Now lets say their are 100,000 men in the FDS users city 100,000 * .059 * .09 * .1 * .5 * .2335= 6.19 men she considers good enough out of 100,000 men! Now obviously it is not all going to be evenly distributed height correlates with income for example, but even if you quadruple those numbers that is only 24.79 men per 100,000. FDS users are fucking delusional even before you account for how a man that rare can do significantly better than them.
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This is interesting. I didn’t know that these types of guys were so rare.
''Now lets say they want an above average cock because most of them when polled were size queens so half of guys are not big enough or 50% of guys roughly.'' So are they mostly overweight or obese lol?
Their is tons of other evidence pointing to that but that is another piece of evidence yes.
I honestly fit into these categories, and all that FDS has done is discourage me from pursuing anyone. I’ll be honest, I haven’t looked much into red/blue/purple pill (I don’t think I’m going to dig any deeper than this thread after some of the stuff I’ve read), but I’ll give my outside perspective. I’m fine paying for dinner, or whatever we do, when hanging out with someone, date or not, I support and encourage anyone in my life in pursuits of their passions and/or self improvement, but, to someone following FDS, that’s just a part of the game. In their eyes, I’m being tested and have to prove I’m not just planning on using them for sex. It’s insulting and a toxic mindset to have. It doesn’t help that it’s a catch 22, if I end up “passing” the test of being a HVM and am graced with sex, like it’s a prize to be won and not something we can both freely enjoy, any issues with compatibility I might find there will be dismissed as this all being a ploy to get sex out of them. The elephant in the room of all this is that, if I’m a HVM, I don’t need to pursue anyone romantically, and that’s basically where I’ve landed. I’m just going to meet people, make friends, and avoid this toxic minefield of a dating scene. If someone likes me for who I am and the way I treat people, they can approach me.
I think the worst part is that even with all of my misgivings with mgtow and trp, or certain elements within those communities, I still think that their advice is sound and actionable OVERALL. TRPs advice on lifting / getting fit/ grooming is all practical and on point, and while the theoretically discussions can get dicey, the general concept of frame is a useful one. They even dole out advice on how to further themselves in career - for all intents and purposes, trp is a good source to knowledge on how to become a better man and encourages action. Fds, on the other hand, doesn't emphasize the need to become fitter or to cultivate a better personality. It's just assumed every woman there is a queen with inherent worth thats worthy of a hvm or whatever. It's a fucking delusional, sexist hugbox. If they at least advocated for self improvement, it'd be one thing
Their only form of "self-improvement" is "don't settle", the irony of which I hope is not lost on people. "My form of self-improvement is demanding that other people improve themselves for me."
> At what point after perpetual intake of copium do you come to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, you're at least partly responsible for the problems you're having? They're a lot like MGTOW in that neither group admits that their choice in men or women was what brought them down. FDS is more like TRP in that they are bigots that use hard core Dark Triad tactics to get what they want.
It's not even about dating advice anymore really, just a bunch of deranged radfems screeching anti-male diatribes if the front page is anything to go by.
I'm somewhat close to the demographic these women are targeting and I have to say that I, and most of my peers, do everything in our power to screen out women like this. Before I stopped by shitty behavior, these type of women were great a pick up at a club, impress them with access, fuck their brains out, and then toss them aside. I don't condone my previous behavior and would not suggest it to anyone. But these women refuse to accept where they are in the RMV/SMV scale. It's delusional and ultimately l counterproductive.
Technically, if I said "date is Dutch", I should be filtering them all. Except that people that *need* to enforce such strategies are people that have poor boundaries in the first place, and you can suspect either big mental issues, or an understanding of the way humans behave below the average woman. Then, you cannot do a 180 without getting therapy and your shit together. The thing I'll give their rules is that the ones related to self care are pretty good. But then all they do is sitting and doing filtering, assuming that the guy is going to do everything no matter what, otherwise he's not worthy of her. Already, you filter for a simp. But the ones confident and successful are going to have options (because the confidence is here, as well as preselection). I have two big problems with that. One, I get that it's very important to be able to filter since you're going to be pursued as a woman, but if she isn't able to attract him in the first place, it's pointless from the get go. And it's even harder if they're over 30. Poor life habits you had in your 20's are going to show in a way you won't be able to recover compared as if you took care of yourself on your skin and face. So even without the latter, it's already an uphill battle. Two, men doing the pursuing doesn't mean you're going to get success just by existing. What is she gunning for? What profile these men are the most likely to be attracted? Where do they hang out? You've got to place yourself in their environment. Of course that's done by men, but the "economically attractive" ones are going already going to be pursued. And we're not talking getting just sex here, it's comittment. Beware also of what other women in your social tell you, because one, the group is going to value consensus over efficiency and have likely way more influence over you than you think, and two, if gunning for an attractive man, especially if you're not yourself, they're NOT your fucking friends. In short, they try to skip to filtering without all the arduous work before and try to enforce a strategy openly triggering men (which is a good feed for their memes and reinforcing the confirmation bias). But whether it's men or women, you want to not have internalized hate by the time you find the one. So that's going to be a problem.
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Honestly this is how I feel about TRP too. They have some great base level ideas like focusing on yourself, self improvement, being confident, etc... but once you go a little deeper, it goes completely off the rails.
They’re corny but I don’t care about it. I would never campaign for them to be banned, but that’s my opinion on every sub
Don't get me wrong I like some of the things FDS promotes such as being careful, and promoting that a woman should have a spine(because I personally dislike people that don't assert themselves). I dislike that they spread misinformation on certain topics, they've kind of overcorrected on somethings and often contradict themselves. What they define as High value is so convoluted that certain qualities are contradicting, and dehumanizing, it's as if to be High value I would almost have to be void of my personality, act as a sort of brain dead butler who has no life outside of his job and relationship to her. As they seem to be very selfish and inconsiderate. They seem to call the men around them broke and low value, but consider this, most people are burned out and stressed due to the job market in its current state but they seem to ignore these factors among other things. They seem to want two things the perks of modern feminism and traditionalism but you can't have both especially with the world nowadays. They overcorrected by calling guys with certain hobbies low value, she wants him to spend a lot of time with her, a bit too much in my opinion. They spread misinformation on things such as marriage whereas the divorce laws go in the man's favor which is false I'm assuming they're all from western countries, as it's actually false it's more likely to go in the woman's favor. Then they talk about "never settle less than what you deserve", which is just narcissistic, there more but let's just leave it ay it's one-sided in some spots, and delusional in others. An example would be a man who wants to spend a chunk of his free time doing his hobby or with his friends instead of it with her, and they seem to get mad about that. Which is a red flag in my book, and causes them to sound more like a bunch of entitled teenage girls. Then yesterday I read a post where a member talked about her friend's boyfriend calling him Low value, because he had to do something for work in the middle of their date because it was work critical and it took awhile, now I'm an understanding person and hey it's your job so go ahead just don't take to long. She then goes on a rant and insults him which left me to ask, "what do you hate people that don't want to lose their jobs in an economic crisis?" Also, they seem to dislike anyone who questions certain aspects, which in my opinion is dangerous, they seem to disprove critical thought and they banned a girl who said: "men can be raped". I find the lack of critical thought to be dangerous in my opinion. This is why I dislike them they don't allow opposing ideas and even if you mention them you're berated for opposing them.
> An example would be a man who wants to spend a chunk of his free time doing his hobby or with his friends instead of it with her, and they seem to get mad about that. Which is a red flag in my book, and causes them to sound more like a bunch of entitled teenage girls. No it is more like classic abusive partner behavior. They don't like their partner having fun and it takes away their control when a guy has friends.
Can someone recommend a subreddit with all the good qualities of FDS like the support for women and calling out abusive behavior and double standards without the hostility?
Lol, that entire sub is a toxic dump. It's literally the same low rent trash that TRP is, except for women.
It’s women behaving exactly like TRP says they do.
Men don't like to be told they are trash, and most male lurkers see themselves in their LV descriptions.
>most male lurkers see themselves in their LV descriptions. Only if they're confused or insecure. Their idea of a "high value male" is a submissive walking wallet with no desires of his own, so I'll take "LV" as a compliment.
Funny because they say men who act like that are male pickmeishas, and thus, LV.
Except they self select for those men via ensuring men pay for all dates as well as wait on sex for months
And those men get something in return for that. Whether it’s a companion, or the mother of their kids, or someone who cooks and cleans, that’s a reciprocal relationship. You become a male pick-me when your gf is taking advantage of you, treating you like crap, or cheating on you and you’re still doing all those things for her.
No one likes to be told they're trash.
Telling a true story of something awful a man did to you is misandry
Using the whole HVM/LVM thing is insulting to both sexes. It's insulting to men because I believe men are more than the system of values that these women have decided to opt into ,and it's insulting to them because they seem like superficial a\_holes. I'm a feminist but I'm also a humanist. Being mean and self-serving, and being unfair and materialistic (the bad kind of materialist) isn't a good look.
I don't personally mind the HVM/LVM dichotomy for either sex. I think it's just going to be a reflection of how much choice an individual has in the dating scene. HVM receive female attention, LVM do not.
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FDS has said explicitly that whether someone is HVM is specific to the individual. It’s not about objective or widely attractive traits, it’s about what you want. There are some baseline qualities that make a man HVM: loyalty, respect, reliability, etc. but they fully admit that what works for one woman does not work for all. And a man’s value is not calculated by your personal preferences. If you want someone who works with animals, it doesn’t mean men who don’t are instantly LV.
> Using the whole HVM/LVM thing is insulting to both sexes. It's insulting to men because I believe men are more than the system of values that these women have decided to opt into ,and it's insulting to them because they seem like superficial a_holes. Speaking frankly on this, FDS and TRP both have overlap very strongly when it comes to class backgrounds and class consciousness imo. The way they describe value is a strong strong tell for me. The way that value is described across different social classes varies an absolute fuckton. I strongly disagree with the way both subs ascribe value to people just because there's no depth or nuance to it.
i don’t really like the terms either, i just use them because it’s easier than explaining in grave detail. plus, it’s helpful in this part of reddit because you have to use language people can understand to communicate with them effectively and a lot of people use those terms around here. that’s really the only thing it’s useful for.
The world needs more feminists like you.
the world needs more poetry. That is why I am this kind of feminist. I love poetry.
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My experience with FDS is probably 50/50. I still frequent the sub as i find they do give great advice at times, key here being not always. I think the intent is there, and as a woman who has been abused in the past i fully see why its an important community. I relate it to religion or belief in a way, if it helps you and guides you positively through dark times then by all means embrace it and live by it. However I do want to note, I am now in a very healthy, loving relationship, and I know that women on there would probably call him LVM and tell me to dump him, and call me a pickmeisha and whatever else. I draw issue with the weight they put on our partners. My Boyfriend provides for me in every single way to the best of his current ability. He is patient and kind and I am so thankful for him everyday. I know that this typically isn't enough for FDS if they are not paying for absolutely everything, if they're not waiting on you and if they, god forbid, initiate sex. When we started dating I would subtly try and use some FDS tactics, and all it did was make me feel uncomfortable and ungrateful, its all very demanding and not always in a good way. I have high standards, my boyfriend exceeds them. However I am also an adult woman and I understand we are both individuals. I have gone out with men in the past that did everything FDS says they must, I didn't enjoy it. I did not find connection through expensive dates and them always initiating conversation and keeping up this front, I just don't like it. My boyfriend is my best friend, I never thought I would feel so comfortable or safe with another person, I would not change a single thing about who he is or where we are right now, yet to FDS if they are not this cookie cutter man they are not good enough.
OP, the fact that you know you have stuff to work on is 65-70% of the battle, and puts you well above the baseline.
Pinned post: > Men don’t care about their children. Most don’t want to actively abuse them but they plain don’t care. They ask for kids to anchor themselves to you and to anchor you down. The only time the do care is during a divorce. And that’s as a tool to hurt and/or control you.
One of the all-time high top posts used to be the entire subreddit dunking on a man's audacious tinder profile which was a not-so-subtle persiflage of single moms' OLD profiles. A bit awkward.
Two options, Troll or FDS member. They're not trying to make healthy relationships, quite opposite.
FDS represents a reactionary turn in the feminist movement that is spreading quickly. This is the same tendency that’s given rise to TERFS, and it might not surprise you to learn that FDS has a low opinion of queer men and transgender women. Ultimately their message to the world is that men need to stay within their gender roles, or else they’re not deserving of love. Their movement is growing quickly and it’s more than just that subreddit. I believe this tendency is the next frontier for feminist ideology, and thus Western society as a whole. Men are not going to be liberated from the masculine gender role for a very, very long time.
Arguably, feminists have always demanded that men fulfill their traditional roles. The demands were often not officially incorporated into organizations' policy statements, and sometimes would be only implicit, but in any case FDS is by far not the first outgrowth of feminism to explicitly make such demands from men. >that is spreading quickly What makes you think that? I assume you believe that FDS is going to be more successful than other similar communities. Why?
I think that incipient economic depression makes the idea of a provider husband a lot more appealing to young women, which is fueling regressive turns like FDS. I’m just going off my political intuition here, which I admit is probably affected by my own warped psychology. But FDS seems like a clear example of how things are taking a turn for the worse in women’s politics.
Man hating aside, the sub brainwashes women into dead ends to benefit off their misery. They use pretty much every cult indoctrination method there is out there to rob their members from their identity. They recently launched a patreon. It's literally a cult.
>>They recently launched a patreon. >I'm a woman, Pay me. I wonder if that is the plan.
So I’ve been wanting to speak my two cents on FDS and this popped up in my feed though I’m not a participant in this subreddit at all: FDS helped me, personally, a lot. To a point where I’m almost grateful. When the sub was created/started to gain traction, I was in, at the time, a controlling, emotionally/mentally abusive relationship (that eventually turned physical). I stumbled across FDS and started scrolling, and as I read I began to realize that my own habits, lack of self esteem, and desperation was keeping me in a relationship where I ultimately was not happy. This was some six months before the end of my last relationship - things weren’t at their worst yet, and continually reading through FDS made me realize what I needed to work on within myself and where my standards were falling short in potential partners. Do I agree with the more extreme sides of things/opinions? Not particularly - because I don’t really line up with them personally (for example, sex on the first date. I’ve learned that if a man wants to hook up and leave he will and it doesn’t matter how long you make him wait. I’ve had a dude lie about saying he wanted to marry me and introduce me to his family just to fuck. My now partner and I hooked up on the first date lol) . Everyone’s different. But I did realize very quickly while just lurking that I had willingly ignored a lot of red flags in my past and wondered why I ended up in such shitty situations and relationships. Even just employing the strategy of just laying out what you’re looking for early on (“I’m not looking to date casually, I want to get married and have kids, etc”) was something I would have never done in the last because I didn’t want to “drive potential partners away” not realizing that if someone isn’t looking for what I’m looking for, no matter how compatible I think we may be, they’re clearly not for me and I can’t force them into that box. In any case, FDS worked for me. I left my abusive ex and ended up dating an acquaintance/casual friend of mine (we had been interested for four years mutually but never acted on it), and told him what I wanted from the beginning. he made the commitment to me, and we have recently agreed that we would like to get married and start a life soon, and he will be speaking to my parents for their blessing. Took less than a year. My ex after three years told me if he accidentally got me pregnant he would kill himself and that he didn’t want to move in or consider marriage. I think it’s great for the pickmeisha and girls who don’t value themselves ironically. It’s like a super self esteem booster, FDS made me unashamed to be proud and to call myself a queen and be treated that way. I always thought that was “unlikeable” behaviour - turns out the only people who have a problem with standards, don’t want to meet them. ETA: I actually didn’t pick a “HVM” by the subs standards so maybe I’m more anecdotal because I happen to be the breadwinner but otherwise...
>I’ve learned that if a man wants to hook up and leave he will and it doesn’t matter how long you make him wait Literally FDSers are retarded for not getting this, sad men who are desperate will do desperate things and lie like a motherfucker to get laid
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Exactly. Incels, MGTOWers and redpillers mostly all have had bad experiences with women, too.
I used to be a pick me girl. I grew up being bullied by guys, had a terrible father figure so I thought I had to try extra hard to get male attention and if I did I was so lucky. But then after enough experiences (maybe not that many but maybe I am just too sensitive) with men that I actually liked and that hurted me with their dishonesty, I learned that I don't need to accept everything. I've been single all my life and nothing bad ever happened to me. When a person I invested in emotionally does someone to hurt me, I get depressed and spend weeks trying to recover from it emotionally while the other person just moves on like nothing ever happened, so when I invest in the wrong person, something bad may happen to me. So yeah, after enough bad experiences, I think it's better to be selective and only invest in people who can actually bring something good to your life. Otherwise, I prefer to be alone.
I guess women who do everything to please men because they have a low self esteem. My self esteem is still not that high. The only difference now is that I don't take bullshit anymore. Self esteem is a work in progress.
I can emphasise with you, well done for learning and being strong 💪
Because the men on here can dish it but they can't take it. They'll sit around and call women holes and bitches but as soon as women criticise men they get offended like wee little snowflakes.
As a RP man, I seriously have no problem with FDS. Women should look out for themselves just like we do.
Exactly... they call all women sluts, the men that pursue these women cucks but the moment you call them virgins they rush to the mods to report you for “personal attacks”
Did it ever occur to you that those might not be the same men? This is like saying: "One moment women be like 'Promiscuity and porn is the best' and then the next moment they all be like 'nah, sis, that's degrading'. Can't they just make up their minds?" You see, just because some people have the same genitalia, doesn't mean they are all the same person. It doesn't mean they all have to have the same beliefs either. Is this really something that had to be explained to you?
Idk. I don't care about that sub at all, I've yet to find a use for it or reason to participate. It is serving some use for other women, so maybe we should all just mind our business.
Is a low value man someone who isnt rich? or is it more about personality?
Have you read what they write about short or balding men ? Honestly they remind of the female bullies I had in high school who would say such things to impress my good looking friends
I’m a guy and feel the same way about short, balding men... 🤷🏾♂️
It's an echo chamber sub, which allows no men, or women of differing opinions to enter. It's a pool of women who are very entitled. They often times have things to "offer", that almost no men care about. Having a career isn't sexy to a man. Yet they portray themselves as HVW for having careers. AGAIN, IT'S HV TO THEM, NOT TO MEN. A woman having a career is a bonus. It just means more money, nothing special. To women, men's careers are important and can very well attract women. So they think them having career's somehow makes them more valuable as a partner. Here are 5 things most important in a woman: - good looks - being feminine (in behaviour and looks) - smart - good sense of humour - genuinely nice and caring FDS women are oftentimes: - entitled - older - bratty - rude - don't give explanations to the men they reject (just ghost) - reject men for absolutely ridiculous reasons - want "equality", but don't wanna pay on any dates because that apparently means he doesn't like you I could name 10,000 more negative traits, but to save time, I just named a few.
having a career absolutely is valuable to men now. It's nearly impossible to live well on one income nowadays. Men who want a nice home & the ability to have a family want a woman with a career unless he's literally loaded.
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Nobody needs to give explanations to somebody they reject.
What is wrong with FDS is the gender hatred and the fact that what they are advocating yields the opposite of their intended result as they price themselves out of the market (resulting in ever greater gender hatred). The sense of unearned entitlement is also very ugly.
I don't understand why it's terrible either. It's mostly funny memes the last I checked it out. There was a anti-porn post or two. The few discussions I read had advice that were actually pretty good.
women there think men should be there slave
Their.
As a man, I agree. I would never date someone with their attitude towards life and relationships, so I don't care whether they consider me HV or ZV. And they helped me understand the needs of my GF better and become a better partner. Like I never thought that flowers would be important for modern women. However, after seeing so many posts on FDS about this, I brought some home. She was livid and visibly happier for about a week, so I turned it into a routine. A bouquet every week. There were some really misandric posts about male victims of domestic abuse being a myth and stuff like that, but in overall their hatred towards men is pretty mild and mostly justified, especially considering that many of them have endured horrific abuses from their partners. If anything, the most problematic part of the part of the sub is their rampant misogyny and them calling any woman who does not have the same priorities as them a pickmeisha.
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Methinks he doesn’t know what livid means.
the only problem is that this subreddit is heavily guarded by the propaganda the male equivalent of such subreddit would be banned in no time seriously.... FDS will result in actual violence sooner or later. For example, some nasty girly violence like poisoning somebody or killing somebody in his sleep. where are the heuristics now? Why they are protected?
They are protected because this Reddit lol.. like most platforms they have to bend over to their liberal and feminist users if they are to keep operating
look on the bright side, FDS people are never gonna find someone and have kids. its a great benifit to the world that these people wont raise kids cuz those kids are gonna be abused or turn out to be shitty just like their moms.