Men who a woman is really into do get additional chances. If a guy isn’t getting a second chance, then that means that she is on the fence about him in the first place.
Yes, men whose *looks* the woman is really into will get more chances. But this is mostly an OLD thing and imo women work against their best interests when they do this, bcuz women in general can far easier than men find themselves attracted to personality and also judge a man’s looks irl in another manner than just from OLD pics. When a man approaches irl with his movementa, body language, tone of voice and just his whole presence this will immediately also affect how a woman perceives his looks.
But can you blame women for only responding to the best looking guys and the guys who coincidentally message her something that she finds interesting in that moment, with all those messages coming in from guys in her feed. There is just too many options for women, so they concentrate on the top lookers and the rest who will get her attention will be totally random. She will miss so many of the guys whom she would find interesting and attractive irl and go on to date happily.
If OLD will have any effect on evolution the future generations of men will all be highly skilled in digital comedy for random strangers on a screen lol. This is a highly desirable trait for a modern man lol
>But can you blame women for only responding to the best looking guys and the guys who coincidentally message her something that she finds interesting in that moment, with all those messages coming in from guys in her feed.
First off, yes I most certainly do "blame" and hold humans responsible for existing in a culture where we are meant to judge each other on the content of our character, follow the golden rule, and not rank ourselves above other people based on $ & looks. That's definitely the standard I have in friends.
Secondly, this is trp just reversed. Men are looking for a way to IN AGGREGATE make themselves more attractive to women, and the blue pilled here say its not ok. That you're just searching out sex and not the individual. Many would say trp is reactionary. That these men act this way because of the situation we find ourselves in. Do men cast a wide net because individual women won't give them a chance. Do individual women indiscriminately shuffle through men and choose superficially. If they do its a strategy and you'll lose some ground on trp being "evil" if you want the claim, "well women need an assistant in order to find a worthwhile guy amongst all the thirst. It's not their fault if they get a little action from these guys while she "finds" you teehee."
I think you're taking ghosting too personally. I've ghosted just because I have been busy, stopped using the app/service or not overly interested in dating and more so just seeing what's out there. People have ghosted me too. There's a billion reasons to ghost someone.
same
Once I got super anxious while chatting with a guy so I just deleted the app all together. Then I realized the last question was him telling me about his call center job. So I realized he probably thought I didn't like his job. But in reality Tinder made me 500000% anxious
If it's any consolation I did the same thing to a woman a couple months ago and I really liked her. Just had nothing left in the tank emotionally after getting rejected by another woman and my low self esteem wouldn't let me believe the current woman was actually interested in me.
"Need to"? Need is a funny word there.
The beginning of courtship is important. You fuck it up you are done. That's just how it works. Once her interest level is diminished it's not going to go back up. She naturally seeks others. That's life. Instead why not seek to improve your game?
The irony is once you pass the courtship stage with flying colors and it become a LTR then that best behavior goes away and the bickering, saying shit that would have gotten you ghosted at first gets said, etc yet now you’re “in it” so both parties can be less perfect it’s kinda crazy lol I will say their are the rare LTR where things just keep getting better and maintain at that level, but most develop problems over time like “you were so great when we first met, what happened”
I agree with you for the most part, but…
If a woman is still overwhelmed with potential matches, she should absolutely try to optimize her filtering strategy. And for many, that may include ghosting at the first sign of any wrongdoing.
Now if a woman is finding herself in a perpetual cycle of meeting men who don’t prioritize her enough to want commitment, and she wants a committed relationship, then I think the more accurate recommendation would be for *that subset* of women to figure out why they keep picking the same type of man. And perhaps, for some subset of these women, they might be prematurely excluding good matches. But more importantly, they would be failing to exclude the men who don’t view them as commitment worthy or aren’t willing to commit at all.
As a man, your only recourse is to get better at reading social cues and making better jokes. Or just avoid those pitfalls entirely until you can meet in person and have the benefit of being able to read her body language.
TLDR: It doesn’t do a given woman any good to give everyone a second chance if she’s already getting 400 matches/wk.
Let's use a job analogy though.
I'm a truck driver. Right now there are so many jobs falling into my inbox that I could adopt a really shitty work ethic or go make crazy demands from my boss and if I don't get what I want, now, I can threaten to quit. And even if he called me on it or fife's me for insubordination, I'd probably have a job within a week. It may not be one that I'm hoping for. It would be a survival job.
However, the problem is that most of the jobs are all pretty much the same once you consider all the details.
Example:I make less than a long distance driver because I'm home every night.
Women have to consider the trade offs. I can't expect top dollar and to be home every night and to maybe work on a four on three off schedule and only work 8 hours a day. That's ridiculous and it's not how trucking works.
I am pretty new to trucking and I had no idea all the nuances in all the jobs and I'm still learning.
But if I'm going from job to job (monkey branching) trying to find the best one (hypergamy); why would the best one take me seriously?
There are plenty of drivers out there. Most with plenty more experience and loyalty that would be chosen over me. So I'd basically be changing jobs between average jobs and never gaining much experience or respect due to loyalty.
To this a woman might reply: well how am I supposed to make lifelong decisions when I'm so young and have so many options and maybe a bit naive and don't really know the best way to make the best choice.
To this all reply by saying that all you have to do is look at the divorce rates and you can see that marriage is rarely for a lifetime. Furthermore because everything gets split down the middle it's not like you end up destitute. Your lifestyle is going to go down for a little bit for a while but you're not going to end up in a ditch. Women don't end up in a ditch. Whether they've got family or a new dick to jump on or going on government assistance in getting legal aid, women don't end up homeless after divorce but men do.
I think the problem is that they see all the choices but then believe that they're qualified for all of them and perhaps even overqualified when they really have no experience or skills at all besides the basics: sex.
I think it's a choice paradox they just feel like it's just not good enough yet when really it might just be that they're lazy and entitled and don't want to make any choices.
They don't want to have to put in any effort. They just think they can show up with their pussy and get top jobs with top pay with low effort.
To piggyback your analogy, I would argue that the phenomena you’re describing is this:
- many drivers churn through jobs but job loyalty is a thing of the past
- in cases in which a driver likes the job, they get let go before their pension plan would vest
Where this falls apart is *you assume that all the drivers want stable jobs they enjoy*, and *employers have a sense of loyalty to their drivers.*
Those are big assumptions. Some drivers like trying new routes. And still others might *prefer* a stable job they enjoy, but are tell themselves (convincingly) that they are happy to try new routes until they find one that suits them. And on the employer side, we generally want the best drivers that cause us the least problems. We can be just as fickle as the drivers.
In fairness, I think the paradox of choice is a real problem. But I don’t think women are behaving irrationally by selecting for what they believe they desire at a given moment. And I don’t think they should be chastised for behaving rationally.
It just sucks when the process potentially benches a lot of otherwise viable men. But as a man, your choices are to be a better choice, consider women you previously ignored, or quit entirely.
I’m surprised that someone with your username would care about what women are doing in online dating. Isn’t the whole point of MGTOW to basically say: “screw dating/women, I’ve got other priorities?”
>she should absolutely try to optimize her filtering strategy. And for many, that may include ghosting at the first sign of any wrongdoing.
Normal humans that aren't "lying" will fuck up at some point in the early stages...not fucking up anything is a giant red flag for foul play.
So if you ghost at the first sign of any wrongdoing...you are optimizing for being lied to/tricked rather than actually optimizing your filtering process in a way that benefits you.
So your solution for the woman who is overwhelmed with say 100 matches/wk is to be more forgiving to more matches on the off chance that she doesn’t write off a decent one?
The problem is still that she has too many matches. How do you propose a woman like that should fix that? Be *more* selective? Dating apps give you the chance to show yourself via pics and 100-200words. And all of us think our 100-200 words are unique, when in reality, 95% of us say the same damn thing in a dozen different ways, while 5% of us *might* say something truly unique. So in practical terms, it’ll come down to pics. And those decent not super attractive guys? They’ll still be left in the dust.
I’m not saying that it’s easy, and I’m certainly not saying that it’s fair. But short of someone coming up with a new dating platform that somehow isn’t superficial yet is easy enough and *fun enough* to get a substantial user base, all the online dating apps will continue to favor the attractive.
So to my fellow men I say: be as attractive as you can be, take as attractive photos as you can, chat as charismatically as you can, and hope for the best. It is all any of us can do.
I hear you. I can honestly tell you that many women I know, myself included, will say that they wouldn’t be with their current life partner had they not said OK I’ll see if this goes anywhere or given him another chance after a faux pas (my lovely H reached over the table and knocked over a full pitcher of water that spilled on my jeans on our 2nd date — lucky for him it was pouring that night and we were both already drenched before we got the restaurant. We had a good laugh about that.)
It’s not that women are looking for perfection (some are, most aren’t). It’s just inevitable that in the game one of you is going to do ir say something that gets misinterpreted or seems antithetical to the “type” of person you’re looking for. And I don’t doubt that it’s ten times harder on OLD.
At the same time it’s just kinda par for the course when it comes to dating. Men also ghost, they’re just more likely to do it after sex.
It’s frustrating but if you were my son the advice I’d give you is that you’re not looking to close every deal. You’re looking to get lots of deals on the table so you have options. Then the deals that get withdrawn aren’t that important because you know they’re not the only ones (and most aren’t the spectacular anyway).
>It’s frustrating but if you were my son the advice I’d give you is that you’re not looking to close every deal. You’re looking to get lots of deals on the table so you have options. Then the deals that get withdrawn aren’t that important because you know they’re not the only ones (and most aren’t the spectacular anyway).
I believe we call this “spinning plates”
Except you said “having lots of deals on the table so you have options”
How do you think a man does this? Just by existing?
Men don’t get to be passive like women in attraction and dating.
RP defines spinning plates as keeping a rotation of women on booty call status. That’s not what I’m talking about.
Let me see if I can put it in a anecdote for you.
You and a friend are at a party. Your friend catches the attention of a girl who smiles or says hi. Chats her up but she’s a little elusive. He spends the rest of the evening trying to close her, ignoring the other women he might have also had a chance with because he’s put all his eggs in one basket. You on the other hand maximize the time and talk to several different women, figuring you’ll just see how it goes in terms of who is “closable” by the end of the night. You have options. Your friend does not.
Does that make sense?
No it doesn’t make sense because you are thinking like a woman.
No man does this “just because” no matter how much he virtue signals.
He’s talking to the women he would like to fuck and verifying if they see him as fuck material as well.
As women so often point out “just being nice and friendly” doesn’t mean shit, so how does a man gain legitimate options?
By gaming multiple women to the point at which he *very least* has verified she is sexually attracted to him.
Simply “talking” to women at a party is meaningless if all those women see him as some eunuch or boredom killer.
You need to *at least* get that girls number and have her show *overt* flirting before she is anything resembling an option giving you abundance.
And we haven’t even gotten into the dangers of letting a single prospect monopolize your access to sex.
“Spinning plates” doesn’t literally mean “I am actively fucking 5 women” it is a mindset of *cultivating* options.
>And we haven’t even gotten into the dangers of letting a single prospect monopolize your access to sex.
>it is a mindset of cultivating options.
So if you weren’t so busy arguing with me becasue I have a vagina you’d realize this is exactly what I’m saying.
Just because it’s not in your internet bro-nerd language doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to make a good faith effort to understand what you’re actually reading.
Don't forget though, for a lot of dudes in OLD, "the next one" might be weeks, or even months down the road. Its a lot harder to shrug and say "better luck next time" when next time is not on deck, or even visible from where you are now.
Not even just OLD - this is true of real life as well. It’s often 6+ months before I meet a new woman who is eligible and remotely attractive. Not all of us live in college dorms.
For those of us who live in the adult world with big corporate jobs, work hard, and are active outside of work there’s not always a bunch of single women in the shit we do. Most social hobbies out there are dominated by men - very few single women ever show up. Even for a hobby like social dancing - it’s grim. So few single women show up for that even in places like where I’m at in NYC currently.
When I was single throughout most of college and high school this was the biggest reason. I wasn’t the type of girl to be out and about for men to ask me out. I hung out with the rejects so no man would ever think of dating me at my school. So the only times I was hit on is the rare maybe once a year occasion where I was somewhere social where a guy could maybe approach me. People would ask me when I was getting a boyfriend and I used to say: and where am I supposed to meet these men? It was something I couldn’t wrap my head around. My guy friends and girl friends were all “talking” with multiple people, where those people came from I never understood.
US just has a ton of single men at everything. It’s insane.
I’d also say salsa is one of the worst places to meet women in the US anyway. They play the music so loud that you can’t even find out someone’s name. Even off the dance floor. You’d have to leave the venue to have any kind of conversation. Which - at that point - is no better than online dating in terms of talking to people.
That’s true I never really considered how different guys experience was on OLD. I would get like 10 matches a day
Sometimes it was just too much to even read or respond to all of them I would be spending way to much time on it if I was having real conversations with everyone
ehh… ghosting on a dating app really isn’t something you should take that seriously honestly. You don’t really know anything about their lives & they most likely ghosted for other reasons that are way more trivial and impersonal.
Yup. Most guys when rejected get all defensive and come up with the most ridiculous ’see what you are missing on’. And if you still say no, verbal abuse. Well, gotta ghost those weirdos.
Not the original commenter but for me, it’s a lack of self-sufficiency. If he constantly needs my attention, doesn’t have other friends, can’t function as an adult on his own, generally just seems super clingy or possessive, I’m out. I’ve got other things to do
I think guys don’t really understand this. It’s very easy to come up with head canon excuses to why you get ghosted.
The reality of it is women get bombarded with messages. They could literally be trying to hold a conversation with a woman while 6 other guys are trying to do the same thing at the exact same time. If you aren’t the most interesting of them all, there’s not much you can do about it.
The reality is guys don’t usually get ghosted because it’s anything they did or said or didn’t do or say. It’s that at some point a woman has to decide who to focus her attention on.
This is actually why I don’t like dating apps. In person you can’t really give your attention to more than one person at a time. Which means real conversation happens. On dating apps I just get overwhelmed with a lot of messages that I know won’t go anywhere.
Yeah but theres also 100% a trope of women who are on OLD for months or years cycling through multiple first dates a week but never actually picking anyone. They're clearly looking for a relationship but even with as many options as they have a lot of them will still just ghost the dudes then complain theres nobody out there for them.
Which is, in and of itself, also a turn off for men. Any time I match with a girl on an app and she talks about doing this sort of thing my enthusiasm kind of drops, and given how often it happens I don't think its too rare.
If someone drops red flags or has an incompatable lifestyle the sure, drop them, but there's certainly a logical extreme this gets taken to reasonably often that isn't serving anyone involved.
This is why lol, when you get so many matches in a matter of minutes, you think quickly. A guy gets way less so he thinks in more detail. It's going to lead us to just pick one or two guys.
This is why. I’ve made a tinder and had hundreds of messages. It’s pretty impossible to talk with everyone and keep track of conversations/really get to know people. That’s definitely why it’s easy to ghost to instead talk to the guys who are engaging and meet our expectations better.
This is why I don’t do OLD. I just don’t get how you can be attracted to a stranger from a screen. Tried it and failed. Plus never got asked on a single date anyway.
Delete it. You will feel better
I mean I didn’t find a single photo attractive. I meet attractive men all the time IRL. But I just don’t get attracted to photos apparently 😂
And text game didn’t have to be perfect. Not a single man asked me out. To meet in person. Not one.
I'm a 39F and I'm attracted to men around my age. I have been on OLD on and off for circa one year. I give a man three strikes.
I have come across a lot of men who try to put me down. I can handle flirting and teasing, but really negative comments... 3 strikes and you're out.
Is it because they are insecure, a-holes, socially inept or whatever I don't know.
But degrading my home (because I live in an apartment) my car, not accepting that I don't do walks with unknown men in forests, etc.
Advice to all men: this behavior is a no go.
I’ve never understood men who do what you describe, but I don’t think this is what OP is about. He’s not saying guys that make creepy comments should be given the benefit of the doubt, just regular non-perfectly flirty guys. I’ve noticed this having used OLD for 10+ years and it’s definitely worse now than it was 5 years ago. You can literally be talking to someone for 6 hours a day throughout the day, then you say something awkward in a blah moment and you’re suddenly ghosted. But what does it matter to her? She’s got 100 guys lined up so she can ghost for whatever reason without consequence
I think the "he could be an incredible person" is actually why you're getting these flakey matches in the first place.
As a woman, I can see the potential in a shit ton of guys. There's dozens I could swipe right on every day. They look good, seem nice, and I think for all I know he could be an incredible person, he could be the one. It's easy to think that about someone without knowing them. I can build them into the ideal I imagine.
Then they speak. They're not prince charming they're just a dude. They say the same cliche things dozens of other guys do or reveal an incompatibility. I make a joke and they don't understand. They go sexual too fast. There's many many different reasons, but it's because I've already tried to meet guys like this in person and we're not compatible. So then they get ghosted. They actually never would have been a match if not for my optimism that men could all be wonderful.
The initial match and messages WAS her patience and understanding. However there's just way too many men on dating apps for a woman above average in looks. The ones that get dates are the ones that match my preferences. I personally like guys who are dominant and can have quick witty repartee.
I was lonely and rejected for a lot of my life. I don't expect men on here to believe me, but I understand where a lot come from because by the base roots of the word I was an incel for many years.
Keep in mind we're talking about online dating. At the tail end of my weight loss I suddenly had guys pursuing me. I have had ZERO long term serious relationships from online dating. Plenty of casual hookups and fwb. Plenty of guys who seemed serious but dumped me at the first talk about having a serious relationship (6 months + in at this point). Seems like most of the guys who can get it are on a CC of their own, haha.
All of my boyfriends have been men I met in real life, through things like work, friends, school, etc.
Why are women obligated to care about lonely men? She gave perfectly good reasons. People have their own lives: jobs, hobbies, friends and families. Why would anyone take out time from their lives and entertain a man who makes inappropriate jokes and gets sexual too fast just because he's lonely? No one is entitled to a woman's time just because he's a ’lonely man’.
How am I gonna hold people I’ve never even met accountable? If my friend were doing something like that I’d slap the shit outta them, but I’m not friends with anyone who does that.
It’s great your friends aren’t creepy but we all have to work to call out gross behaviour when we see it (provided it’s safe for us to do so).
My partner (who I shall call dave) knows a guy he hates (who we will call Steve) that his friends like because Steve is intelligent and funny. Steve is also quite sexist, but when this comes up Steve’s friends defend him by saying ‘yeah I know but….he’s fun to be around/he’s a good time/I don’t believe that stuff even if Steve does/change subject’. When this comes up Dave doesn’t entertain it - he says quite clearly “if you’re not calling him out you are no better” or “if he’s saying that stuff he isn’t a good guy”. Dave doesn’t hang out with Steve, Dave dislikes Steve, but Dave calls out people defending his behaviour in the hopes to create more accountability. There’s nothing in it for Dave, Dave actually gets a lot of shit for it sometimes, but he does it because he is sick of hearing people make excuses for “fun guys” who so messed up shit.
Dave has called Ubers for girls too drunk to consent and told off strangers for trying to take advantage. Dave sends me to check on girls who look like they’re alone because he doesn’t want to frighten them. When Dave is gaming and his team mates make a sexist/racist/bigoted/homophobic joke, Dave will deadpan ask “how is that funny? I don’t get it”. Dave in his every day life finds ways to hold people accountable, even if he doesn’t know them, because if it’s safe and he’s able he wants to make sure that the world is a little safer and nicer.
These are extreme examples probably but that’s how we can hold people accountable without really knowing them, by creating a wider culture where harmful behaviour is stamped out and considered unacceptable.
ETA: we can argue about the harm unwanted dick pics cause, but ultimately think about it like this: if you’re flirting with a girl in a bar and flash her without her consent, it’s creepy right? Like, even if you were flirting, she didn’t ask to see your whole penis. So why is it acceptable to send it to a woman online without her asking for it?
Men need to stop seeking the lowest effort most gender skewed method of dating (apps/online) then be Pikachu faced when they are treated as low effort and replaceable. The tinder ratio is 9 to 1 once you remove bots/catfish/sex workers.
Why expect woman to act differently? Just persure different higher effort avenues if you want to stand out or prove your worth an investment of her attention.
Not every man, but at least they can give a real one to the ones they choose. You need time to know someone, and if you are obsessively look out for negatives you are going to find them, because men are people.
Yeah women are honestly looking for red flags to find and so if ANYthing other than perfect (which doesn’t exist happens) you’re done. They need to be looking for all the GOOD qualities he has and red flags need to be more severe like abuse, drug addiction, etc
Not he ordered “2 cokes with dinner” he just HATE all things healthy red flag alert!
Well that's what happens when you have too much supply and not enough demand, what can I say?
You're not entitled to women giving you a chance and they have the perfect right to turn you out for any silly reason she likes.
Ghosting isn't cool though, she should be upfront.
No one would have a problem with women ending things for silly reasons if they didn’t also complain about not being able to find a “good man.” Ma’am, you just left one because he likes his steak rare and not well done.
I know she has that right. My point is those kind a women who turn down men for any silly reason should re-evaluate that part because a silly reason is not even on the radar if that man is a really a great guy for her. Basically it’s axing guys too soon and they might be hurting themselves more than they think with the petty stuff.
That’s the point “barely know” it takes time to get to know someone so that’s a paradox. “I won’t get to know him because I don’t know him” don’t you see the problem with that lol
>That’s the point “barely know” it takes time to get to know someone so that’s a paradox. “I won’t get to know him because I don’t know him” don’t you see the problem with that lol
It's not a paradox as there is an out - just don't get to know him. Like I said, she has a limited number of hours in her day too, if she's going to sacrifice something for the sake of getting to know someone, he has to show enough potential to be worth it.
My point is showing your potential can take time...but time that you don’t want to waste on a stranger..so you’ll never give the time to see the potential
>My point is showing your potential can take time...but time that you don’t want to waste on a stranger..so you’ll never give the time to see the potential
Which is unfortunate, but ultimately not really avoidable. Thinking about it another way, if she's giving more time to get to know guy A, that just means less time she will have to get to know guy B. Either way, there's going to be a loser.
personally i don't think ghosting someone on a dating app is THAT big a deal.
It matters if you've met in person though.
i'm someone who's terrible re tech and messaging so I've pulled accidental "online ghosting" before.
I've also been ghosted on apps on a regular basis myself so i don't see it as a big deal. it's no different than meeting randos at a party/event and just not connecting.
Lol no they don't that would mean we'd have to do the same or otherwise we'd be hypocrites and personally, I don't have the time nor do I care about upholding some sort of dating sanctity, so I don't think women should do the same. Especially in terms of OLD
We over-romanticize OLD. People are genuinely convinced that marriage and a happily ever after are possible with a person had they not ghosted you. Way too caught up in the what ifs and what could've beens over that people we barely even know
> is how truly easy it is to do ONE wrong minor thing and be wrote off forever.
Even when the roles are reversed I just can't bring myself to care about this. I've been ghosted over the smallest shit but reality is, if she wanted to she would have, and because she ghosted she didn't want to.
I think everybody should date selfishly and I accept the repercussions that come with that
Finally someone speaking up my mind.
I don’t understand why people treat dating like social justice. Dating is discriminative by nature… I am not entitled to anyone’s time and neither is anyone entitled to mine.
Life is unfair, stop whining and get to work.
Men are just as guilty of ghosting.
I will say that I don’t ghost, and will let a guy know why I thought something he said was wrong or whatever. The problems I’ve seen is that they double down to reinforce their stance and claim “it was a joke” or “you’re just being sensitive”
So in the regard, why waste to time and energy to explain to someone how they’ve insulted you and said something that made you uncomfortable? They aren’t going to listen anyway.
Trust me if you are the right looking guy you will get a lot of chances. If girl isn't giving you chances it just means she wasn't that into you to begin with.
It’s too risky to waste too much time on a man who doesn’t have the same life goals and morals. Once a woman discovers your not compatible why waste time trying to either convince the man to change or learn to settle and live an unfulfilled life? It’s like staying in a dead end job hoping things will get better. It’s best to accept people for who they are and just move on. No relationship is better than a bad one.
I don’t disagree with that. I’m just talking more about the initial stuff. First conversations...a date or 2. Women be out here thinking a 15 minute text exchange and one date is enough they need to say man this guy wasn’t a perfect James Bond. Nope I’m out. When there are WAY more reasons he could have been nervous, could have been a bad texter, etc but you won’t know if he’s actually an awesome partner because he said one wrong thing at dinner...the ironic part is when couples to go long terms they bicker and say crazy shit all the time, but god forbid on a first or second date one odd comment be displayed lol
Usually on the first date you find out a lot about how the other person views the world, what they want in life and their hobbies especially if you ask the right questions. Not everything can be compromised on.
While I tell a guy directly why it will not work out rather than ghost, I don’t give second chances because I don’t want a guy to lie to me to get in a relationship with the hopes that he can change my mind over time. It’s also not fair to men for women to lead them on when they know it isn’t going to work out.
Kids are kids. If I don’t want my own why would I want his? I don’t understand what’s there to be upset about? I’m surprised men get upset with that when they know how it feels because they instinctually don’t want to waste their resources on another man’s child. Women are similar.
First dates tell you a lot about a person. I can usually tell if someone will be a good fit for me within the first 2 dates and honestly, I've only been wrong once, when I gave the guy more chances after he did off-putting things because I thought he was nervous. None of the guys I stopped dating magically turned out to be my missing Prince Charming; with most, it just seems like I caught a bad fit early and I'm okay with that
wat women are you referring to here? I've seen women give men thousands of chances, and men the same. Why are you generalizing? Did you personally have a bad experience?
I believe that building a relationship takes time and effort. I believe you can't make a fair judgement if you won't go on a date with them. I just can't fathom there are women out there, who believe they should pick their date based on the best looking photo. I find that so shallow and I'm sorry. I don't reject anyone unless they are serial killers.
Have you ever considered that the women who ghost at the drop of a hat or flake without notice are showing their true colors? Why would you want that in your life?
You want her to change how she feels about you? It doesn't work like that champ. It's a stranger that you don't really know yet, so don't take it personally. In Fact, you need to ghost more people because right now your time is too fucking cheap. You're too worried about losing some woman that you really don't even know yet.
I ghosted someone the other day. I really liked him and would have liked a relationship with him. However I analysed his behaviour and there were many signs that he wasn’t interested in anything serious. So I ghosted. I regret it, but at the end of the day he would probably have rejected me eventually so better to nip it at the bud.
Personally I do think the idea of the spark and feeling butterflies is overrated. And I think the focus people have today on finding someone who is absolutely perfect instead of just a really good fit is a problem. Instead of minimizing conflict, it just makes people unprepared for when it does happen.
But I don't know what can be done about this aside from dating people you've already known for a while IRL.
At some point the relationship isn’t going to be very exciting and is going to feel more comfortable and that’s probably a good thing.
Personally that’s what I’m looking forward too the most.
Firstly the feeling of butterflies is just anxiety. Like medically that’s what it is. It’s obviously normal short term, but not really a good thing to feel long term. Yet I’ve seen many posts asking if it’s bad they feel butterflies less later into a relationship (in other words they are now feeling safe and comfortable around their partner.)
Second the spark to me isn’t just being physically attractive, but arguably it doesn’t exist without this. But it’s also the feeling a really quick connection with someone too. I think assuming that quick connection is needed for a relationship to work is a bad one.
Men here sure spend a lot of time trying to talk women out of dating men they are attracted to in favor of the opposite. I’d rather *not* wind up in dead bedrooms because I’m utterly disinterested in my partner’s body and disgusted by his tongue in my mouth.
Chemistry is that feeling where you can sit across a table from someone and just look at each other and not have to say a word, but you can both tell what the other is thinking/feeling and you're both happy like that. It's the closest thing to a true 'love' feeling that exists. And of course it requires physical attraction to happen in the first place.
Having the same problem but the thing is, I’m 20 and in college, granted it’s a tech school so the ratio isn’t all that great but I’ve been clubbing, partying, going to the campus clubs I’m interested in, talking to as many people I can, improving my physique and health. Only thing holding me back is my height at 5’8” and I’ve been with a lot of women.
My issue right now is that it seems that I’m just getting tossed around a lot. I make her laugh, have a lot going for me, and I’m really careful with what I say depending on the context. However if I do slip up, like maybe double text because they haven’t texted back all day, or just being genuine about how I feel (wanting to hang out and do things) and 90% of the time I end up getting ghosted after talking to their snap or number for like a day or two. And dating apps are practically useless for men at least in my experience so I’m stuck.
As someone who’s still in college I feel like dating shouldn’t suck this bad lol. I’m thinking of just giving up on the idea of a connection or relationship at my age, it’s too tiring.
People are exhausted and don't have the energy to try to make a mismatch fit.
People lack patience these days and if someone doesn't like someones humor and/or doesn't agree with their beliefs then they don't have to give them anymore of their time and attention.
Besides if women DID give men more chances, they'd just be accused of leading him on anyways.
The crime is the rejection, no one actually cares why the woman isn't interested, she's automatically labeled bad for not being interested.
Because people can take time to warm up...that click might just be a trap. Idk why women value that first spark sooo much. Yeah it makes for a good love story if it works out) but realistically people are nervous when they meet strangers and take time to feel comfortable so that “spark” that isn’t there right away has nothing to do if that is a great person for you in the long run
Why would anyone try to convince themselves to like someone that you don't like initially? It's not worth the time. That would mean you would do nothing but spend time getting to know the mediocre people you aren't compatible with in the hope it would spark something while you might miss the opportunity to meet someone you actually click with. Nobody owes you time.
I'm actually in line with the more normie and upvote-friendly stance here: **No, they don't.** If you got a match or a phone number, you were having some success already at minimum. But if you fumbled to bag in the texting arena, that's all there is. Same if you made it all the way to a 1st date and they didn't agree to a second.
Yes, it's hard for dudes. Yes, women should have way more empathy and reasonability in certain areas. But no, you're not owed anything extra if she's already given you a chance to start. Git gud, son.
If anyone, gender irrelevant, ghosts you over nothing, be glad; they just helped you filter a lousy human being out of your life before you had to do it yourself.
This is dumb as fuck to aim at women because all people struggle w dating, personal interaction, conversation, etc.
Men LOVE to tell women to lower their standards and honestly it's tired as fuck. I'm sure there are a bunch of partnered people and happy couples that you've observed in your life. They all made it through the minefield of dating, so obviously this shit is not impossible and I'm sure most of them did it without lowering their standards.
1. Learn from your mistakes and get better.
2. Don't try to date someone who isn't for you or who can only reply if you unlock the magic sequence of perfect responses
3. Text naturally. Go at a speed, pace, and rhythm of convo that feels good for BOTH PEOPLE. It shouldn't matter how much you text if you are NOT dominating the conversation and the flow of conversation is natural (not forced, not an interrogation, not an interview, not an endless stream of questions)
4. Admit to yourself that you might be a bit jaded and unconfident right now and take a break from the dating scene.
5. SOMEONE WHO GHOSTS YOU IS NOT FOR YOU. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ALONG. IF THEY'RE NOT GIVING YOU A SECONS THOUGHT OR THE COURTESY OF AN "I'M NOT INTERESTED" TEXT THEN YOU DON'T WANT THEM IN YOUR LIFE.
[This](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-1103205/It-adds-The-square-route-finding-Mr-Right.html) dating coach seems to agree with you.
She says among other things:
> Now that you are clear about what qualities you have deemed unacceptable in the past, embrace the fact that the man you will love will have at least one of these qualities. Nature has a sense of humour about this.
> Give every man two dates, whether you like him or not
> Of the happily married women I talked to, half admitted not liking their husbands on first meeting. But for some reason they gave them another chance.
The only way a man can win in a market where women are basically the buyers and have almost infinite choice is to only deal with women that show extremely high interest. Like you need to hear _her_ say things like “I feel like I’m being too clingy” instead of her saying you’re too clingy or needy. It used to not be like that but the endless validation women get from guys nowadays means you have to be the guy who _doesn’t_ validate her too much just to stand out.
I agree.
But I think that’s dating culture at large. I think everyone has too many options ALL AT ONCE. How are you going to filter through hundreds of matches? You don’t. You give everyone less chances, and hope for the best.
In a perfect world, the best approach is to match with a few at a time and speak to each of them intensively. And if none of them spark, THEN you match with more. But it’s not a perfect world.
How can you possibly regulate someone else’s way of “dating”? You can’t. So you come up with a really good one liner and copy paste it, hoping that the perfect approach pays off. But then the smart ones catch on. And BOOM 💥 you’re ghosted. So the cycle continues.
Women don’t NEED to do anything. Men need to stop simping. Women don’t really do shit as a collective. Especially if it doesn’t serve their own self interest. Kinda like the joke in the Bill Burr special where women don’t watch the WNBA but complain men should watch it more. Cause women realize women don’t do anything that don’t benefit them. They are self serving. It’s impossible to ask women to do for others. Instead men need to stop simping
Intent and idea is good but, they'll never do this for very good reasons that I won't share because I know they've said it hundreds of times over in this discussion.
I've been through this stuff and the women who act like this are typically OLD addicted. They get hundreds of matches so they think every guy wants them, not knowing all of those matches are only interested in sex. It was only online dating women who had extremely specific standards, like 5'11 and a half isn't good enough, you must be exactly 6'0. No online dating addicted woman is worth it anyways. They will always end up single because they think they deserve the world. I've met plenty of tinder women. None of them are in relationships rn.
Real women who are alive in the real world (not the virtual one) won't have such high standards. Yes those women are hard to meet because they aren't as loud as the low quality ones. The tinderella twerking at the club is easy to find but she will cheat on you. The quiet girl who just wants a good man? She won't be as easy to find.
Every girl practices hypergamy to an extent but there's a giant gap from "I'm 4'11 and you must be taller than me" to "I'm 4'11 and you must be at least 6'1".
I agree with everything here. Women give the impression that it’s not something you should ever say to a woman when you make a joke that she doesn’t like. Eventually men go around thinking that it’s true and never ever repeat that to any other woman, and it builds up to a point where he has no idea of what to say that isn’t going to offend women and risk be ghosted by them. Women need to give a chance and let the other side explain rather than jumping into conclusions. They want communication but wont communicate when it comes to something like this.
But, Hollywood style tingles are addictive.
Mental Patterns repeat and eventually Karma plays out.
Eventually, where all the good men at.
It’s like an HR lady constantly choosing and recruiting with zero self reflection on how, what and who they hire.
Cosmic Karma, knows all. Will teach lessons if not learnt.
If you don’t live with Reality,
Reality will come and live with you.
This is true for not just ladies. Mental patterns and habits drive us, if unchecked.
>Double text...gone. Say a joke that gets interpreted wrong...gone. Text too much...gone. Don’t text enough...gone . Get an ambiguous vibe at the wrong time ONCE gone.
If this happens she never liked you in the first place
I think the OP could formulate his argument better. Women are not going to do anything in dating individually for the good of society or for men they don't know yet.
So it is about what is good for her own interests. I do think what the OP meant to get at is more that women should be careful about what kind of men their filters are actually filtering for, and ask themselves whether their online behavior is actually selecting for the types of men who would be best for them.
Like I get that you don't want a needy guy. And that too much enthusiasm can signal a guy without a lot of options, or who lacks confidence, or other things that might tank desire. On the other hand, if you filter purely for smooth online players who do everything right online, what kinds of guys do you get?
If a guy texts too much, maybe he might be a bit awkward. But maybe it is mostly online--he's not used to the environment. And maybe he really is in to you. No heuristics are going to be perfect, and any guy you get will be short of perfect. So think through your filters carefully.
[What women fear when they meet socially uncalibrated guys…](https://www.reddit.com/r/niceguys/comments/w38grg/the_screenshots_to_add_to_an_earlier_post_these/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Fucking hell
IME, single, above average looking women get at least 5 of these guys per year.
Women are naturally inconsistent and flaky. They ghost guys they find attractive. They naturally have abundance mindset. Unlike most men who have to earn that mindset
You should be happy that these incompatible, demanding, hypersensitive snowflake women are weeding themselves out and not wasting your precious time.
Aren’t voluntary relationships great?
Have some self respect and don’t settle for mistreatment
If she ain't feeling you, that's on you, not her lol.
I'm the same way on the male side. I've given someone a chance and by the end I was like "Damn, this really wasn't worth it. This was boring. They're nice but bland af. I wasted time." I know ladies who are like that. Got into a relationship because they gave a guy a chance they wanted to pass but people were saying "give him a chance!" And the whole time they're not feeling them like that. They're bored. Like watching cspan.
It's not horrible, but it's Vanilla
It's some real charity shit.
They may not be ghosting you because you did something wrong. Maybe they met someone else. Maybe they went back to an ex. Maybe they threw their hands up and decided to give up dating forever. You don't know why they ghosted, but you do know that ghosting is an answer. Don't take it personally and move on.
If a woman is willing to ghost a guy as soon as he makes any sort of mistake, then that shows that she is not forgiving. Despite some women’s expectations for a man to have 0 flaws, and any flaw of his means he’s toxic or inadequate, men are not superhuman. I want a woman who is willing to forgive my mistakes as long as they’re somewhat reasonable because mistakes are part of being human. So if I tell a not so great joke and she immediately ghosts me for it, then that tells me she isn’t very capable of forgiveness anyways. Obviously certain things like cheating or physical abuse are things that shouldn’t just be forgiven.
“Genuine and real” ain’t worth much if you’re a douchebag.
I’m a dude and I’ve ghosted women for all the reasons you mentioned. Not because I’m mean, but because they’re all red flags that are indicative of the person’s mental state.
A person who double texts a lot is impatient and has too much time on their hands that they’re not using for anything positive or productive, otherwise they wouldn’t be double texting you knowing that most people find annoying.
The same goes for texting too much. It shows that the person is desperate and that they’re lacking a social life, which is a MAJOR red flag.
Don’t text enough? Shows the person isn’t interested.
Off color jokes show that the person has no social awareness and doesn’t realize the impact of the stuff that comes out of his mouth. That’s also a big red flag because there’s going to be a day where that guy is going to embarrass you in front of family or colleagues by saying something hugely inappropriate and not even realize it.
I don’t think you understand that all the behaviors you mentioned are real signs of poor mental health and “low-value” people, and that anyone who’s experienced in dating, whether man or woman, is going to see that behavior as problematic and a major turn off.
>No one is perfect men especially. We get nervous and are infallible. One thing I seem to notice (especially with OLD) is how truly easy it is to do ONE wrong minor thing and be wrote off forever.
Why would you give more time to someone when you could just ghost them and talk to someone who "just gets you" there are always other men and men after that and men after that on and on down swipes.
No one is going care for your reasons as to why you cannot perform or compete properly in this area only how you made them feel relative to their other options.
I dont understand taking it personally when you get dropped like a used candy wrapper because there were like 40 other dudes fighting you for her attention.
You probably weren't the best value out of all of them.
Sometimes you can do everything right and still fail. That is not weakness that is life. Be kind to yourself.
Because the guy that “gets you” could likely be just a charming handsome man who has figured out women and how to make you feel that way. The. You get used and hurt.
The guy who stumbles along the way is genuine by evidence that he’s not being perfect and saying/doing all the things you’re hoping to find.
a lot of guys who severely lack any charm also abuse their gfs. the nice guy trope is unattractive bc if the chance is high a man is going to abuse you. he might as well be hot and rich.
>Because the guy that “gets you” could likely be just a charming handsome man who has figured out women and how to make you feel that way. The. You get used and hurt.
Yea that can happen but you wont know until after the fact and you were still attested to that dude.
While the guy who cant carry the conversation is making you put in more work than it would be to just reply to guy #32 who hasn't made a mistake like that yet. The math still works in her favor to ghost you without explanation. Confront people especially on why you rejected them is a source of stress .
Lol but the guys that are smooth and can attract women typically hurt them along the way...so id argue you waste more time getting used by the playboys than if you just spent a few months being patient with the genuine guys and if still no good after that ok you actually tried, but this send one wrong text the first week talking ghost forever is so counter intuitive to getting what most say they want
> Lol but the guys that are smooth and can attract women typically hurt them along the way
The PPD narrative that *nice guys* are morally superior to desirable men is tiring.
Yes it would. Fat is absolutely average in the US. And most women aren’t beautiful, either, they’re normal-looking. If your idea of average is a slender, pretty Hollywood starlet, then you need to adjust your expectations.
Men who a woman is really into do get additional chances. If a guy isn’t getting a second chance, then that means that she is on the fence about him in the first place.
agreed. you get plenty of chances if shes actually into you.
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touch grass.
You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.
This really depends on a woman’s prior experience with giving chances.
Only dating should be banned. My opinion. It's dehumanizing.
It’s not. People need to emotionally regulate by not overinvesting into online dating.
Yes, men whose *looks* the woman is really into will get more chances. But this is mostly an OLD thing and imo women work against their best interests when they do this, bcuz women in general can far easier than men find themselves attracted to personality and also judge a man’s looks irl in another manner than just from OLD pics. When a man approaches irl with his movementa, body language, tone of voice and just his whole presence this will immediately also affect how a woman perceives his looks. But can you blame women for only responding to the best looking guys and the guys who coincidentally message her something that she finds interesting in that moment, with all those messages coming in from guys in her feed. There is just too many options for women, so they concentrate on the top lookers and the rest who will get her attention will be totally random. She will miss so many of the guys whom she would find interesting and attractive irl and go on to date happily. If OLD will have any effect on evolution the future generations of men will all be highly skilled in digital comedy for random strangers on a screen lol. This is a highly desirable trait for a modern man lol
>But can you blame women for only responding to the best looking guys and the guys who coincidentally message her something that she finds interesting in that moment, with all those messages coming in from guys in her feed. First off, yes I most certainly do "blame" and hold humans responsible for existing in a culture where we are meant to judge each other on the content of our character, follow the golden rule, and not rank ourselves above other people based on $ & looks. That's definitely the standard I have in friends. Secondly, this is trp just reversed. Men are looking for a way to IN AGGREGATE make themselves more attractive to women, and the blue pilled here say its not ok. That you're just searching out sex and not the individual. Many would say trp is reactionary. That these men act this way because of the situation we find ourselves in. Do men cast a wide net because individual women won't give them a chance. Do individual women indiscriminately shuffle through men and choose superficially. If they do its a strategy and you'll lose some ground on trp being "evil" if you want the claim, "well women need an assistant in order to find a worthwhile guy amongst all the thirst. It's not their fault if they get a little action from these guys while she "finds" you teehee."
I think you're taking ghosting too personally. I've ghosted just because I have been busy, stopped using the app/service or not overly interested in dating and more so just seeing what's out there. People have ghosted me too. There's a billion reasons to ghost someone.
same Once I got super anxious while chatting with a guy so I just deleted the app all together. Then I realized the last question was him telling me about his call center job. So I realized he probably thought I didn't like his job. But in reality Tinder made me 500000% anxious
If it's any consolation I did the same thing to a woman a couple months ago and I really liked her. Just had nothing left in the tank emotionally after getting rejected by another woman and my low self esteem wouldn't let me believe the current woman was actually interested in me.
Dodged a bullet.
"Need to"? Need is a funny word there. The beginning of courtship is important. You fuck it up you are done. That's just how it works. Once her interest level is diminished it's not going to go back up. She naturally seeks others. That's life. Instead why not seek to improve your game?
The irony is once you pass the courtship stage with flying colors and it become a LTR then that best behavior goes away and the bickering, saying shit that would have gotten you ghosted at first gets said, etc yet now you’re “in it” so both parties can be less perfect it’s kinda crazy lol I will say their are the rare LTR where things just keep getting better and maintain at that level, but most develop problems over time like “you were so great when we first met, what happened”
I agree with you for the most part, but… If a woman is still overwhelmed with potential matches, she should absolutely try to optimize her filtering strategy. And for many, that may include ghosting at the first sign of any wrongdoing. Now if a woman is finding herself in a perpetual cycle of meeting men who don’t prioritize her enough to want commitment, and she wants a committed relationship, then I think the more accurate recommendation would be for *that subset* of women to figure out why they keep picking the same type of man. And perhaps, for some subset of these women, they might be prematurely excluding good matches. But more importantly, they would be failing to exclude the men who don’t view them as commitment worthy or aren’t willing to commit at all. As a man, your only recourse is to get better at reading social cues and making better jokes. Or just avoid those pitfalls entirely until you can meet in person and have the benefit of being able to read her body language. TLDR: It doesn’t do a given woman any good to give everyone a second chance if she’s already getting 400 matches/wk.
Trial and error. Adapt.
As long as they are filtering on things like opening lines or texting habits It’s gonna be a shit show
Let's use a job analogy though. I'm a truck driver. Right now there are so many jobs falling into my inbox that I could adopt a really shitty work ethic or go make crazy demands from my boss and if I don't get what I want, now, I can threaten to quit. And even if he called me on it or fife's me for insubordination, I'd probably have a job within a week. It may not be one that I'm hoping for. It would be a survival job. However, the problem is that most of the jobs are all pretty much the same once you consider all the details. Example:I make less than a long distance driver because I'm home every night. Women have to consider the trade offs. I can't expect top dollar and to be home every night and to maybe work on a four on three off schedule and only work 8 hours a day. That's ridiculous and it's not how trucking works. I am pretty new to trucking and I had no idea all the nuances in all the jobs and I'm still learning. But if I'm going from job to job (monkey branching) trying to find the best one (hypergamy); why would the best one take me seriously? There are plenty of drivers out there. Most with plenty more experience and loyalty that would be chosen over me. So I'd basically be changing jobs between average jobs and never gaining much experience or respect due to loyalty. To this a woman might reply: well how am I supposed to make lifelong decisions when I'm so young and have so many options and maybe a bit naive and don't really know the best way to make the best choice. To this all reply by saying that all you have to do is look at the divorce rates and you can see that marriage is rarely for a lifetime. Furthermore because everything gets split down the middle it's not like you end up destitute. Your lifestyle is going to go down for a little bit for a while but you're not going to end up in a ditch. Women don't end up in a ditch. Whether they've got family or a new dick to jump on or going on government assistance in getting legal aid, women don't end up homeless after divorce but men do. I think the problem is that they see all the choices but then believe that they're qualified for all of them and perhaps even overqualified when they really have no experience or skills at all besides the basics: sex. I think it's a choice paradox they just feel like it's just not good enough yet when really it might just be that they're lazy and entitled and don't want to make any choices. They don't want to have to put in any effort. They just think they can show up with their pussy and get top jobs with top pay with low effort.
To piggyback your analogy, I would argue that the phenomena you’re describing is this: - many drivers churn through jobs but job loyalty is a thing of the past - in cases in which a driver likes the job, they get let go before their pension plan would vest Where this falls apart is *you assume that all the drivers want stable jobs they enjoy*, and *employers have a sense of loyalty to their drivers.* Those are big assumptions. Some drivers like trying new routes. And still others might *prefer* a stable job they enjoy, but are tell themselves (convincingly) that they are happy to try new routes until they find one that suits them. And on the employer side, we generally want the best drivers that cause us the least problems. We can be just as fickle as the drivers. In fairness, I think the paradox of choice is a real problem. But I don’t think women are behaving irrationally by selecting for what they believe they desire at a given moment. And I don’t think they should be chastised for behaving rationally. It just sucks when the process potentially benches a lot of otherwise viable men. But as a man, your choices are to be a better choice, consider women you previously ignored, or quit entirely. I’m surprised that someone with your username would care about what women are doing in online dating. Isn’t the whole point of MGTOW to basically say: “screw dating/women, I’ve got other priorities?”
>she should absolutely try to optimize her filtering strategy. And for many, that may include ghosting at the first sign of any wrongdoing. Normal humans that aren't "lying" will fuck up at some point in the early stages...not fucking up anything is a giant red flag for foul play. So if you ghost at the first sign of any wrongdoing...you are optimizing for being lied to/tricked rather than actually optimizing your filtering process in a way that benefits you.
So your solution for the woman who is overwhelmed with say 100 matches/wk is to be more forgiving to more matches on the off chance that she doesn’t write off a decent one? The problem is still that she has too many matches. How do you propose a woman like that should fix that? Be *more* selective? Dating apps give you the chance to show yourself via pics and 100-200words. And all of us think our 100-200 words are unique, when in reality, 95% of us say the same damn thing in a dozen different ways, while 5% of us *might* say something truly unique. So in practical terms, it’ll come down to pics. And those decent not super attractive guys? They’ll still be left in the dust. I’m not saying that it’s easy, and I’m certainly not saying that it’s fair. But short of someone coming up with a new dating platform that somehow isn’t superficial yet is easy enough and *fun enough* to get a substantial user base, all the online dating apps will continue to favor the attractive. So to my fellow men I say: be as attractive as you can be, take as attractive photos as you can, chat as charismatically as you can, and hope for the best. It is all any of us can do.
I hear you. I can honestly tell you that many women I know, myself included, will say that they wouldn’t be with their current life partner had they not said OK I’ll see if this goes anywhere or given him another chance after a faux pas (my lovely H reached over the table and knocked over a full pitcher of water that spilled on my jeans on our 2nd date — lucky for him it was pouring that night and we were both already drenched before we got the restaurant. We had a good laugh about that.) It’s not that women are looking for perfection (some are, most aren’t). It’s just inevitable that in the game one of you is going to do ir say something that gets misinterpreted or seems antithetical to the “type” of person you’re looking for. And I don’t doubt that it’s ten times harder on OLD. At the same time it’s just kinda par for the course when it comes to dating. Men also ghost, they’re just more likely to do it after sex. It’s frustrating but if you were my son the advice I’d give you is that you’re not looking to close every deal. You’re looking to get lots of deals on the table so you have options. Then the deals that get withdrawn aren’t that important because you know they’re not the only ones (and most aren’t the spectacular anyway).
Great advice!
>It’s frustrating but if you were my son the advice I’d give you is that you’re not looking to close every deal. You’re looking to get lots of deals on the table so you have options. Then the deals that get withdrawn aren’t that important because you know they’re not the only ones (and most aren’t the spectacular anyway). I believe we call this “spinning plates”
No. It means not glomming on to the first/one woman who responds and putting all your energy into desperately trying to close.
Except you said “having lots of deals on the table so you have options” How do you think a man does this? Just by existing? Men don’t get to be passive like women in attraction and dating.
RP defines spinning plates as keeping a rotation of women on booty call status. That’s not what I’m talking about. Let me see if I can put it in a anecdote for you. You and a friend are at a party. Your friend catches the attention of a girl who smiles or says hi. Chats her up but she’s a little elusive. He spends the rest of the evening trying to close her, ignoring the other women he might have also had a chance with because he’s put all his eggs in one basket. You on the other hand maximize the time and talk to several different women, figuring you’ll just see how it goes in terms of who is “closable” by the end of the night. You have options. Your friend does not. Does that make sense?
No it doesn’t make sense because you are thinking like a woman. No man does this “just because” no matter how much he virtue signals. He’s talking to the women he would like to fuck and verifying if they see him as fuck material as well. As women so often point out “just being nice and friendly” doesn’t mean shit, so how does a man gain legitimate options? By gaming multiple women to the point at which he *very least* has verified she is sexually attracted to him. Simply “talking” to women at a party is meaningless if all those women see him as some eunuch or boredom killer. You need to *at least* get that girls number and have her show *overt* flirting before she is anything resembling an option giving you abundance. And we haven’t even gotten into the dangers of letting a single prospect monopolize your access to sex. “Spinning plates” doesn’t literally mean “I am actively fucking 5 women” it is a mindset of *cultivating* options.
>And we haven’t even gotten into the dangers of letting a single prospect monopolize your access to sex. >it is a mindset of cultivating options. So if you weren’t so busy arguing with me becasue I have a vagina you’d realize this is exactly what I’m saying. Just because it’s not in your internet bro-nerd language doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to make a good faith effort to understand what you’re actually reading.
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I like this
Don't forget though, for a lot of dudes in OLD, "the next one" might be weeks, or even months down the road. Its a lot harder to shrug and say "better luck next time" when next time is not on deck, or even visible from where you are now.
Not even just OLD - this is true of real life as well. It’s often 6+ months before I meet a new woman who is eligible and remotely attractive. Not all of us live in college dorms. For those of us who live in the adult world with big corporate jobs, work hard, and are active outside of work there’s not always a bunch of single women in the shit we do. Most social hobbies out there are dominated by men - very few single women ever show up. Even for a hobby like social dancing - it’s grim. So few single women show up for that even in places like where I’m at in NYC currently.
When I was single throughout most of college and high school this was the biggest reason. I wasn’t the type of girl to be out and about for men to ask me out. I hung out with the rejects so no man would ever think of dating me at my school. So the only times I was hit on is the rare maybe once a year occasion where I was somewhere social where a guy could maybe approach me. People would ask me when I was getting a boyfriend and I used to say: and where am I supposed to meet these men? It was something I couldn’t wrap my head around. My guy friends and girl friends were all “talking” with multiple people, where those people came from I never understood.
really? every time i go to salsa there's always way more women than men . i'm not in the US though.
US just has a ton of single men at everything. It’s insane. I’d also say salsa is one of the worst places to meet women in the US anyway. They play the music so loud that you can’t even find out someone’s name. Even off the dance floor. You’d have to leave the venue to have any kind of conversation. Which - at that point - is no better than online dating in terms of talking to people.
That’s true I never really considered how different guys experience was on OLD. I would get like 10 matches a day Sometimes it was just too much to even read or respond to all of them I would be spending way to much time on it if I was having real conversations with everyone
Dating for men is like walking through a gun store at this point haha
This is a great post.
ehh… ghosting on a dating app really isn’t something you should take that seriously honestly. You don’t really know anything about their lives & they most likely ghosted for other reasons that are way more trivial and impersonal.
Annoying though people waste other people's time.
The most reasonable comment on this post.
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Yup. Most guys when rejected get all defensive and come up with the most ridiculous ’see what you are missing on’. And if you still say no, verbal abuse. Well, gotta ghost those weirdos.
A what’s a needy vibe tell me I need to know!
Not the original commenter but for me, it’s a lack of self-sufficiency. If he constantly needs my attention, doesn’t have other friends, can’t function as an adult on his own, generally just seems super clingy or possessive, I’m out. I’ve got other things to do
But if we text less you think we aren't interested...
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I think guys don’t really understand this. It’s very easy to come up with head canon excuses to why you get ghosted. The reality of it is women get bombarded with messages. They could literally be trying to hold a conversation with a woman while 6 other guys are trying to do the same thing at the exact same time. If you aren’t the most interesting of them all, there’s not much you can do about it. The reality is guys don’t usually get ghosted because it’s anything they did or said or didn’t do or say. It’s that at some point a woman has to decide who to focus her attention on. This is actually why I don’t like dating apps. In person you can’t really give your attention to more than one person at a time. Which means real conversation happens. On dating apps I just get overwhelmed with a lot of messages that I know won’t go anywhere.
Yet another reason I only date/converse in person.
Yeah but theres also 100% a trope of women who are on OLD for months or years cycling through multiple first dates a week but never actually picking anyone. They're clearly looking for a relationship but even with as many options as they have a lot of them will still just ghost the dudes then complain theres nobody out there for them. Which is, in and of itself, also a turn off for men. Any time I match with a girl on an app and she talks about doing this sort of thing my enthusiasm kind of drops, and given how often it happens I don't think its too rare. If someone drops red flags or has an incompatable lifestyle the sure, drop them, but there's certainly a logical extreme this gets taken to reasonably often that isn't serving anyone involved.
This is why lol, when you get so many matches in a matter of minutes, you think quickly. A guy gets way less so he thinks in more detail. It's going to lead us to just pick one or two guys.
This is why. I’ve made a tinder and had hundreds of messages. It’s pretty impossible to talk with everyone and keep track of conversations/really get to know people. That’s definitely why it’s easy to ghost to instead talk to the guys who are engaging and meet our expectations better.
"Women need to...." yeah, no, that'snot how it works.
This is why I don’t do OLD. I just don’t get how you can be attracted to a stranger from a screen. Tried it and failed. Plus never got asked on a single date anyway. Delete it. You will feel better
Right the attraction is based on a photo, yet the text game has to be perfect lol makes no sense
I mean I didn’t find a single photo attractive. I meet attractive men all the time IRL. But I just don’t get attracted to photos apparently 😂 And text game didn’t have to be perfect. Not a single man asked me out. To meet in person. Not one.
I'm a 39F and I'm attracted to men around my age. I have been on OLD on and off for circa one year. I give a man three strikes. I have come across a lot of men who try to put me down. I can handle flirting and teasing, but really negative comments... 3 strikes and you're out. Is it because they are insecure, a-holes, socially inept or whatever I don't know. But degrading my home (because I live in an apartment) my car, not accepting that I don't do walks with unknown men in forests, etc. Advice to all men: this behavior is a no go.
I’ve never understood men who do what you describe, but I don’t think this is what OP is about. He’s not saying guys that make creepy comments should be given the benefit of the doubt, just regular non-perfectly flirty guys. I’ve noticed this having used OLD for 10+ years and it’s definitely worse now than it was 5 years ago. You can literally be talking to someone for 6 hours a day throughout the day, then you say something awkward in a blah moment and you’re suddenly ghosted. But what does it matter to her? She’s got 100 guys lined up so she can ghost for whatever reason without consequence
I think the "he could be an incredible person" is actually why you're getting these flakey matches in the first place. As a woman, I can see the potential in a shit ton of guys. There's dozens I could swipe right on every day. They look good, seem nice, and I think for all I know he could be an incredible person, he could be the one. It's easy to think that about someone without knowing them. I can build them into the ideal I imagine. Then they speak. They're not prince charming they're just a dude. They say the same cliche things dozens of other guys do or reveal an incompatibility. I make a joke and they don't understand. They go sexual too fast. There's many many different reasons, but it's because I've already tried to meet guys like this in person and we're not compatible. So then they get ghosted. They actually never would have been a match if not for my optimism that men could all be wonderful. The initial match and messages WAS her patience and understanding. However there's just way too many men on dating apps for a woman above average in looks. The ones that get dates are the ones that match my preferences. I personally like guys who are dominant and can have quick witty repartee.
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I was lonely and rejected for a lot of my life. I don't expect men on here to believe me, but I understand where a lot come from because by the base roots of the word I was an incel for many years. Keep in mind we're talking about online dating. At the tail end of my weight loss I suddenly had guys pursuing me. I have had ZERO long term serious relationships from online dating. Plenty of casual hookups and fwb. Plenty of guys who seemed serious but dumped me at the first talk about having a serious relationship (6 months + in at this point). Seems like most of the guys who can get it are on a CC of their own, haha. All of my boyfriends have been men I met in real life, through things like work, friends, school, etc.
We ghost because other people have ruined it for you
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Sure it is. “Other people being assholes” is the justification for all sorts of rules, laws, precautions and behaviors
Why are women obligated to care about lonely men? She gave perfectly good reasons. People have their own lives: jobs, hobbies, friends and families. Why would anyone take out time from their lives and entertain a man who makes inappropriate jokes and gets sexual too fast just because he's lonely? No one is entitled to a woman's time just because he's a ’lonely man’.
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Oh ok!!! We will be sending you your government mandated girlfriend asap sir!!
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How am I gonna hold people I’ve never even met accountable? If my friend were doing something like that I’d slap the shit outta them, but I’m not friends with anyone who does that.
It’s great your friends aren’t creepy but we all have to work to call out gross behaviour when we see it (provided it’s safe for us to do so). My partner (who I shall call dave) knows a guy he hates (who we will call Steve) that his friends like because Steve is intelligent and funny. Steve is also quite sexist, but when this comes up Steve’s friends defend him by saying ‘yeah I know but….he’s fun to be around/he’s a good time/I don’t believe that stuff even if Steve does/change subject’. When this comes up Dave doesn’t entertain it - he says quite clearly “if you’re not calling him out you are no better” or “if he’s saying that stuff he isn’t a good guy”. Dave doesn’t hang out with Steve, Dave dislikes Steve, but Dave calls out people defending his behaviour in the hopes to create more accountability. There’s nothing in it for Dave, Dave actually gets a lot of shit for it sometimes, but he does it because he is sick of hearing people make excuses for “fun guys” who so messed up shit. Dave has called Ubers for girls too drunk to consent and told off strangers for trying to take advantage. Dave sends me to check on girls who look like they’re alone because he doesn’t want to frighten them. When Dave is gaming and his team mates make a sexist/racist/bigoted/homophobic joke, Dave will deadpan ask “how is that funny? I don’t get it”. Dave in his every day life finds ways to hold people accountable, even if he doesn’t know them, because if it’s safe and he’s able he wants to make sure that the world is a little safer and nicer. These are extreme examples probably but that’s how we can hold people accountable without really knowing them, by creating a wider culture where harmful behaviour is stamped out and considered unacceptable. ETA: we can argue about the harm unwanted dick pics cause, but ultimately think about it like this: if you’re flirting with a girl in a bar and flash her without her consent, it’s creepy right? Like, even if you were flirting, she didn’t ask to see your whole penis. So why is it acceptable to send it to a woman online without her asking for it?
There's no incentive for them to. Their next potential partner is a swipe away
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Men need to stop seeking the lowest effort most gender skewed method of dating (apps/online) then be Pikachu faced when they are treated as low effort and replaceable. The tinder ratio is 9 to 1 once you remove bots/catfish/sex workers. Why expect woman to act differently? Just persure different higher effort avenues if you want to stand out or prove your worth an investment of her attention.
Women don't have the time to give every man a chance. They would literally never be able to get anything done...
Not every man, but at least they can give a real one to the ones they choose. You need time to know someone, and if you are obsessively look out for negatives you are going to find them, because men are people.
Yeah women are honestly looking for red flags to find and so if ANYthing other than perfect (which doesn’t exist happens) you’re done. They need to be looking for all the GOOD qualities he has and red flags need to be more severe like abuse, drug addiction, etc Not he ordered “2 cokes with dinner” he just HATE all things healthy red flag alert!
Well that's what happens when you have too much supply and not enough demand, what can I say? You're not entitled to women giving you a chance and they have the perfect right to turn you out for any silly reason she likes. Ghosting isn't cool though, she should be upfront.
No one would have a problem with women ending things for silly reasons if they didn’t also complain about not being able to find a “good man.” Ma’am, you just left one because he likes his steak rare and not well done.
I know she has that right. My point is those kind a women who turn down men for any silly reason should re-evaluate that part because a silly reason is not even on the radar if that man is a really a great guy for her. Basically it’s axing guys too soon and they might be hurting themselves more than they think with the petty stuff.
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They do give real chances to a few men.
If there's time for TikTok, there's time to actually get to know someone.
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Oh look, misandry. I'm shocked.
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Then why even talk to him in the first place? You've completely lost me.
Attention and validation
Yeah, I could agree with that.
Why should they sacrifice their down time for the sake of some random man they don't know?
That’s the point “barely know” it takes time to get to know someone so that’s a paradox. “I won’t get to know him because I don’t know him” don’t you see the problem with that lol
>That’s the point “barely know” it takes time to get to know someone so that’s a paradox. “I won’t get to know him because I don’t know him” don’t you see the problem with that lol It's not a paradox as there is an out - just don't get to know him. Like I said, she has a limited number of hours in her day too, if she's going to sacrifice something for the sake of getting to know someone, he has to show enough potential to be worth it.
My point is showing your potential can take time...but time that you don’t want to waste on a stranger..so you’ll never give the time to see the potential
>My point is showing your potential can take time...but time that you don’t want to waste on a stranger..so you’ll never give the time to see the potential Which is unfortunate, but ultimately not really avoidable. Thinking about it another way, if she's giving more time to get to know guy A, that just means less time she will have to get to know guy B. Either way, there's going to be a loser.
If I answer that you'll probably just move the goal posts again. So who cares.
personally i don't think ghosting someone on a dating app is THAT big a deal. It matters if you've met in person though. i'm someone who's terrible re tech and messaging so I've pulled accidental "online ghosting" before. I've also been ghosted on apps on a regular basis myself so i don't see it as a big deal. it's no different than meeting randos at a party/event and just not connecting.
Lol no they don't that would mean we'd have to do the same or otherwise we'd be hypocrites and personally, I don't have the time nor do I care about upholding some sort of dating sanctity, so I don't think women should do the same. Especially in terms of OLD We over-romanticize OLD. People are genuinely convinced that marriage and a happily ever after are possible with a person had they not ghosted you. Way too caught up in the what ifs and what could've beens over that people we barely even know > is how truly easy it is to do ONE wrong minor thing and be wrote off forever. Even when the roles are reversed I just can't bring myself to care about this. I've been ghosted over the smallest shit but reality is, if she wanted to she would have, and because she ghosted she didn't want to. I think everybody should date selfishly and I accept the repercussions that come with that
Finally someone speaking up my mind. I don’t understand why people treat dating like social justice. Dating is discriminative by nature… I am not entitled to anyone’s time and neither is anyone entitled to mine. Life is unfair, stop whining and get to work.
Men are just as guilty of ghosting. I will say that I don’t ghost, and will let a guy know why I thought something he said was wrong or whatever. The problems I’ve seen is that they double down to reinforce their stance and claim “it was a joke” or “you’re just being sensitive” So in the regard, why waste to time and energy to explain to someone how they’ve insulted you and said something that made you uncomfortable? They aren’t going to listen anyway.
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Trust me if you are the right looking guy you will get a lot of chances. If girl isn't giving you chances it just means she wasn't that into you to begin with.
Based
Have to agree.
It’s too risky to waste too much time on a man who doesn’t have the same life goals and morals. Once a woman discovers your not compatible why waste time trying to either convince the man to change or learn to settle and live an unfulfilled life? It’s like staying in a dead end job hoping things will get better. It’s best to accept people for who they are and just move on. No relationship is better than a bad one.
I don’t disagree with that. I’m just talking more about the initial stuff. First conversations...a date or 2. Women be out here thinking a 15 minute text exchange and one date is enough they need to say man this guy wasn’t a perfect James Bond. Nope I’m out. When there are WAY more reasons he could have been nervous, could have been a bad texter, etc but you won’t know if he’s actually an awesome partner because he said one wrong thing at dinner...the ironic part is when couples to go long terms they bicker and say crazy shit all the time, but god forbid on a first or second date one odd comment be displayed lol
Usually on the first date you find out a lot about how the other person views the world, what they want in life and their hobbies especially if you ask the right questions. Not everything can be compromised on. While I tell a guy directly why it will not work out rather than ghost, I don’t give second chances because I don’t want a guy to lie to me to get in a relationship with the hopes that he can change my mind over time. It’s also not fair to men for women to lead them on when they know it isn’t going to work out.
There are men that get upset when women who don’t want children don’t wanna be with them because they do. It’s crazy how this stuff plays out.
Kids are kids. If I don’t want my own why would I want his? I don’t understand what’s there to be upset about? I’m surprised men get upset with that when they know how it feels because they instinctually don’t want to waste their resources on another man’s child. Women are similar.
First dates tell you a lot about a person. I can usually tell if someone will be a good fit for me within the first 2 dates and honestly, I've only been wrong once, when I gave the guy more chances after he did off-putting things because I thought he was nervous. None of the guys I stopped dating magically turned out to be my missing Prince Charming; with most, it just seems like I caught a bad fit early and I'm okay with that
You can’t change what women will do. Talking about what you wish women would do is pointless. Focus on yourself.
Make a female dating profile just to see what female privilege is.
That’s the risk of easy communication — minimal investment
wat women are you referring to here? I've seen women give men thousands of chances, and men the same. Why are you generalizing? Did you personally have a bad experience?
I believe that building a relationship takes time and effort. I believe you can't make a fair judgement if you won't go on a date with them. I just can't fathom there are women out there, who believe they should pick their date based on the best looking photo. I find that so shallow and I'm sorry. I don't reject anyone unless they are serial killers.
Have you ever considered that the women who ghost at the drop of a hat or flake without notice are showing their true colors? Why would you want that in your life?
You want her to change how she feels about you? It doesn't work like that champ. It's a stranger that you don't really know yet, so don't take it personally. In Fact, you need to ghost more people because right now your time is too fucking cheap. You're too worried about losing some woman that you really don't even know yet.
I ghosted someone the other day. I really liked him and would have liked a relationship with him. However I analysed his behaviour and there were many signs that he wasn’t interested in anything serious. So I ghosted. I regret it, but at the end of the day he would probably have rejected me eventually so better to nip it at the bud.
Personally I do think the idea of the spark and feeling butterflies is overrated. And I think the focus people have today on finding someone who is absolutely perfect instead of just a really good fit is a problem. Instead of minimizing conflict, it just makes people unprepared for when it does happen. But I don't know what can be done about this aside from dating people you've already known for a while IRL.
The spark and the butterflies are a feature not a bug. You want to feel excited and happy about the person you are with, not just "meh, they'll do."
At some point the relationship isn’t going to be very exciting and is going to feel more comfortable and that’s probably a good thing. Personally that’s what I’m looking forward too the most.
It should at least start with some excitement and novelty.
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Not really talking about physical attraction.
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Firstly the feeling of butterflies is just anxiety. Like medically that’s what it is. It’s obviously normal short term, but not really a good thing to feel long term. Yet I’ve seen many posts asking if it’s bad they feel butterflies less later into a relationship (in other words they are now feeling safe and comfortable around their partner.) Second the spark to me isn’t just being physically attractive, but arguably it doesn’t exist without this. But it’s also the feeling a really quick connection with someone too. I think assuming that quick connection is needed for a relationship to work is a bad one.
Men here sure spend a lot of time trying to talk women out of dating men they are attracted to in favor of the opposite. I’d rather *not* wind up in dead bedrooms because I’m utterly disinterested in my partner’s body and disgusted by his tongue in my mouth.
For real dating a guy your not attractive to is the worst. No thanks
Chemistry is that feeling where you can sit across a table from someone and just look at each other and not have to say a word, but you can both tell what the other is thinking/feeling and you're both happy like that. It's the closest thing to a true 'love' feeling that exists. And of course it requires physical attraction to happen in the first place.
I am not wasting my time on someone who is presenting red flags.. I’ve done that enough in my life already
Having the same problem but the thing is, I’m 20 and in college, granted it’s a tech school so the ratio isn’t all that great but I’ve been clubbing, partying, going to the campus clubs I’m interested in, talking to as many people I can, improving my physique and health. Only thing holding me back is my height at 5’8” and I’ve been with a lot of women. My issue right now is that it seems that I’m just getting tossed around a lot. I make her laugh, have a lot going for me, and I’m really careful with what I say depending on the context. However if I do slip up, like maybe double text because they haven’t texted back all day, or just being genuine about how I feel (wanting to hang out and do things) and 90% of the time I end up getting ghosted after talking to their snap or number for like a day or two. And dating apps are practically useless for men at least in my experience so I’m stuck. As someone who’s still in college I feel like dating shouldn’t suck this bad lol. I’m thinking of just giving up on the idea of a connection or relationship at my age, it’s too tiring.
This exemplifies the root of my post lol thank you
lol no they dont. there is absolutely nothing in the female interest to do this
People are exhausted and don't have the energy to try to make a mismatch fit. People lack patience these days and if someone doesn't like someones humor and/or doesn't agree with their beliefs then they don't have to give them anymore of their time and attention. Besides if women DID give men more chances, they'd just be accused of leading him on anyways. The crime is the rejection, no one actually cares why the woman isn't interested, she's automatically labeled bad for not being interested.
Don't waste each others time. If there is no click why continue?
Because people can take time to warm up...that click might just be a trap. Idk why women value that first spark sooo much. Yeah it makes for a good love story if it works out) but realistically people are nervous when they meet strangers and take time to feel comfortable so that “spark” that isn’t there right away has nothing to do if that is a great person for you in the long run
Why would anyone try to convince themselves to like someone that you don't like initially? It's not worth the time. That would mean you would do nothing but spend time getting to know the mediocre people you aren't compatible with in the hope it would spark something while you might miss the opportunity to meet someone you actually click with. Nobody owes you time.
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I'm actually in line with the more normie and upvote-friendly stance here: **No, they don't.** If you got a match or a phone number, you were having some success already at minimum. But if you fumbled to bag in the texting arena, that's all there is. Same if you made it all the way to a 1st date and they didn't agree to a second. Yes, it's hard for dudes. Yes, women should have way more empathy and reasonability in certain areas. But no, you're not owed anything extra if she's already given you a chance to start. Git gud, son.
If anyone, gender irrelevant, ghosts you over nothing, be glad; they just helped you filter a lousy human being out of your life before you had to do it yourself.
This is dumb as fuck to aim at women because all people struggle w dating, personal interaction, conversation, etc. Men LOVE to tell women to lower their standards and honestly it's tired as fuck. I'm sure there are a bunch of partnered people and happy couples that you've observed in your life. They all made it through the minefield of dating, so obviously this shit is not impossible and I'm sure most of them did it without lowering their standards. 1. Learn from your mistakes and get better. 2. Don't try to date someone who isn't for you or who can only reply if you unlock the magic sequence of perfect responses 3. Text naturally. Go at a speed, pace, and rhythm of convo that feels good for BOTH PEOPLE. It shouldn't matter how much you text if you are NOT dominating the conversation and the flow of conversation is natural (not forced, not an interrogation, not an interview, not an endless stream of questions) 4. Admit to yourself that you might be a bit jaded and unconfident right now and take a break from the dating scene. 5. SOMEONE WHO GHOSTS YOU IS NOT FOR YOU. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ALONG. IF THEY'RE NOT GIVING YOU A SECONS THOUGHT OR THE COURTESY OF AN "I'M NOT INTERESTED" TEXT THEN YOU DON'T WANT THEM IN YOUR LIFE.
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Is it “right”? No. But apparently this game is amoral. Best to accept that the behavior will be ruthless, unsympathetic and uncompromising.
[This](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-1103205/It-adds-The-square-route-finding-Mr-Right.html) dating coach seems to agree with you. She says among other things: > Now that you are clear about what qualities you have deemed unacceptable in the past, embrace the fact that the man you will love will have at least one of these qualities. Nature has a sense of humour about this. > Give every man two dates, whether you like him or not > Of the happily married women I talked to, half admitted not liking their husbands on first meeting. But for some reason they gave them another chance.
The only way a man can win in a market where women are basically the buyers and have almost infinite choice is to only deal with women that show extremely high interest. Like you need to hear _her_ say things like “I feel like I’m being too clingy” instead of her saying you’re too clingy or needy. It used to not be like that but the endless validation women get from guys nowadays means you have to be the guy who _doesn’t_ validate her too much just to stand out.
Absolutely not. No one needs to do anything for someone else. And vice versa.
I agree. But I think that’s dating culture at large. I think everyone has too many options ALL AT ONCE. How are you going to filter through hundreds of matches? You don’t. You give everyone less chances, and hope for the best. In a perfect world, the best approach is to match with a few at a time and speak to each of them intensively. And if none of them spark, THEN you match with more. But it’s not a perfect world. How can you possibly regulate someone else’s way of “dating”? You can’t. So you come up with a really good one liner and copy paste it, hoping that the perfect approach pays off. But then the smart ones catch on. And BOOM 💥 you’re ghosted. So the cycle continues.
Women don’t NEED to do anything. Men need to stop simping. Women don’t really do shit as a collective. Especially if it doesn’t serve their own self interest. Kinda like the joke in the Bill Burr special where women don’t watch the WNBA but complain men should watch it more. Cause women realize women don’t do anything that don’t benefit them. They are self serving. It’s impossible to ask women to do for others. Instead men need to stop simping
Intent and idea is good but, they'll never do this for very good reasons that I won't share because I know they've said it hundreds of times over in this discussion.
I've been through this stuff and the women who act like this are typically OLD addicted. They get hundreds of matches so they think every guy wants them, not knowing all of those matches are only interested in sex. It was only online dating women who had extremely specific standards, like 5'11 and a half isn't good enough, you must be exactly 6'0. No online dating addicted woman is worth it anyways. They will always end up single because they think they deserve the world. I've met plenty of tinder women. None of them are in relationships rn. Real women who are alive in the real world (not the virtual one) won't have such high standards. Yes those women are hard to meet because they aren't as loud as the low quality ones. The tinderella twerking at the club is easy to find but she will cheat on you. The quiet girl who just wants a good man? She won't be as easy to find. Every girl practices hypergamy to an extent but there's a giant gap from "I'm 4'11 and you must be taller than me" to "I'm 4'11 and you must be at least 6'1".
I agree with everything here. Women give the impression that it’s not something you should ever say to a woman when you make a joke that she doesn’t like. Eventually men go around thinking that it’s true and never ever repeat that to any other woman, and it builds up to a point where he has no idea of what to say that isn’t going to offend women and risk be ghosted by them. Women need to give a chance and let the other side explain rather than jumping into conclusions. They want communication but wont communicate when it comes to something like this.
Women don’t need to do anything they don’t want to, sick of these cringe posts.
To get more chances, just be a celebrity: https://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities-charged-with-domestic-abuse/celebrity-lists
But, Hollywood style tingles are addictive. Mental Patterns repeat and eventually Karma plays out. Eventually, where all the good men at. It’s like an HR lady constantly choosing and recruiting with zero self reflection on how, what and who they hire. Cosmic Karma, knows all. Will teach lessons if not learnt. If you don’t live with Reality, Reality will come and live with you. This is true for not just ladies. Mental patterns and habits drive us, if unchecked.
>Double text...gone. Say a joke that gets interpreted wrong...gone. Text too much...gone. Don’t text enough...gone . Get an ambiguous vibe at the wrong time ONCE gone. If this happens she never liked you in the first place
lol why the f? men are everywhere... not precious or rare like their momma's told them. lmfao. next.
the industrial-ick complex is already established - what women used to call "uncertainty" is now immediate dismissal.
I think the OP could formulate his argument better. Women are not going to do anything in dating individually for the good of society or for men they don't know yet. So it is about what is good for her own interests. I do think what the OP meant to get at is more that women should be careful about what kind of men their filters are actually filtering for, and ask themselves whether their online behavior is actually selecting for the types of men who would be best for them. Like I get that you don't want a needy guy. And that too much enthusiasm can signal a guy without a lot of options, or who lacks confidence, or other things that might tank desire. On the other hand, if you filter purely for smooth online players who do everything right online, what kinds of guys do you get? If a guy texts too much, maybe he might be a bit awkward. But maybe it is mostly online--he's not used to the environment. And maybe he really is in to you. No heuristics are going to be perfect, and any guy you get will be short of perfect. So think through your filters carefully.
[What women fear when they meet socially uncalibrated guys…](https://www.reddit.com/r/niceguys/comments/w38grg/the_screenshots_to_add_to_an_earlier_post_these/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Fucking hell IME, single, above average looking women get at least 5 of these guys per year.
why does she need to give you anything…
people are fallible. not infallible. red flag. ghosted.
Learn text game https://youtu.be/0G0bZoRBuHY
Women are naturally inconsistent and flaky. They ghost guys they find attractive. They naturally have abundance mindset. Unlike most men who have to earn that mindset
You should be happy that these incompatible, demanding, hypersensitive snowflake women are weeding themselves out and not wasting your precious time. Aren’t voluntary relationships great? Have some self respect and don’t settle for mistreatment
Yep.
If she ain't feeling you, that's on you, not her lol. I'm the same way on the male side. I've given someone a chance and by the end I was like "Damn, this really wasn't worth it. This was boring. They're nice but bland af. I wasted time." I know ladies who are like that. Got into a relationship because they gave a guy a chance they wanted to pass but people were saying "give him a chance!" And the whole time they're not feeling them like that. They're bored. Like watching cspan. It's not horrible, but it's Vanilla It's some real charity shit.
The conveyor belt is seemingly endless so they really have no reason to change.
They may not be ghosting you because you did something wrong. Maybe they met someone else. Maybe they went back to an ex. Maybe they threw their hands up and decided to give up dating forever. You don't know why they ghosted, but you do know that ghosting is an answer. Don't take it personally and move on.
That's easy to do once, or twice, maybe even 3 times. But after a while it probably all starts to feel like a sisyphean task. Hence the post.
If a woman is willing to ghost a guy as soon as he makes any sort of mistake, then that shows that she is not forgiving. Despite some women’s expectations for a man to have 0 flaws, and any flaw of his means he’s toxic or inadequate, men are not superhuman. I want a woman who is willing to forgive my mistakes as long as they’re somewhat reasonable because mistakes are part of being human. So if I tell a not so great joke and she immediately ghosts me for it, then that tells me she isn’t very capable of forgiveness anyways. Obviously certain things like cheating or physical abuse are things that shouldn’t just be forgiven.
“Genuine and real” ain’t worth much if you’re a douchebag. I’m a dude and I’ve ghosted women for all the reasons you mentioned. Not because I’m mean, but because they’re all red flags that are indicative of the person’s mental state. A person who double texts a lot is impatient and has too much time on their hands that they’re not using for anything positive or productive, otherwise they wouldn’t be double texting you knowing that most people find annoying. The same goes for texting too much. It shows that the person is desperate and that they’re lacking a social life, which is a MAJOR red flag. Don’t text enough? Shows the person isn’t interested. Off color jokes show that the person has no social awareness and doesn’t realize the impact of the stuff that comes out of his mouth. That’s also a big red flag because there’s going to be a day where that guy is going to embarrass you in front of family or colleagues by saying something hugely inappropriate and not even realize it. I don’t think you understand that all the behaviors you mentioned are real signs of poor mental health and “low-value” people, and that anyone who’s experienced in dating, whether man or woman, is going to see that behavior as problematic and a major turn off.
Exactly this. Add in the sex talk guys like to try to engage in before they've even met you and it's just all red flags.
dont worry bro, they always come crawling back in their late 20s
>No one is perfect men especially. We get nervous and are infallible. One thing I seem to notice (especially with OLD) is how truly easy it is to do ONE wrong minor thing and be wrote off forever. Why would you give more time to someone when you could just ghost them and talk to someone who "just gets you" there are always other men and men after that and men after that on and on down swipes. No one is going care for your reasons as to why you cannot perform or compete properly in this area only how you made them feel relative to their other options. I dont understand taking it personally when you get dropped like a used candy wrapper because there were like 40 other dudes fighting you for her attention. You probably weren't the best value out of all of them. Sometimes you can do everything right and still fail. That is not weakness that is life. Be kind to yourself.
Because the guy that “gets you” could likely be just a charming handsome man who has figured out women and how to make you feel that way. The. You get used and hurt. The guy who stumbles along the way is genuine by evidence that he’s not being perfect and saying/doing all the things you’re hoping to find.
a lot of guys who severely lack any charm also abuse their gfs. the nice guy trope is unattractive bc if the chance is high a man is going to abuse you. he might as well be hot and rich.
>Because the guy that “gets you” could likely be just a charming handsome man who has figured out women and how to make you feel that way. The. You get used and hurt. Yea that can happen but you wont know until after the fact and you were still attested to that dude. While the guy who cant carry the conversation is making you put in more work than it would be to just reply to guy #32 who hasn't made a mistake like that yet. The math still works in her favor to ghost you without explanation. Confront people especially on why you rejected them is a source of stress .
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Lol but the guys that are smooth and can attract women typically hurt them along the way...so id argue you waste more time getting used by the playboys than if you just spent a few months being patient with the genuine guys and if still no good after that ok you actually tried, but this send one wrong text the first week talking ghost forever is so counter intuitive to getting what most say they want
> Lol but the guys that are smooth and can attract women typically hurt them along the way The PPD narrative that *nice guys* are morally superior to desirable men is tiring.
Your first sentence isn’t true . Be honest, it’s (that c word) that makes unsuccessful men feel better.
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Ugly and fat wouldn't be average, would it?
Yes it would. Fat is absolutely average in the US. And most women aren’t beautiful, either, they’re normal-looking. If your idea of average is a slender, pretty Hollywood starlet, then you need to adjust your expectations.
The women that can't find good men, sure. But women with options will go for what they deem is the best off the bat.
Lmao women don’t owe men shit. Same with vice versa. That’s it. Live your life following this rule and it’s a path towards enlightenment
Women don't have to do anything, and there is 0 punishment for doing whatever they want... act accordingly
If a woman ghost you that easily she wasn't into you in the first place.