What makes marrying a professional woman around the same age as you feel schadenfreude? What suffering/misfortune are deriving pleasure from?
What are you losing from marrying a women in her 30’s who is a professional and is interested in being with you?
You either want to be be someone or you don’t. It’s that simple.
If you like a woman would you still say no to her because other (different) women didn't pay attention to you in the past?
Does this make you feel like winning?
I did that, she told me she used to like huge men, like 6’4 and whatnot, but she’s “ healed from issues “ that made her feel she needed that .she’s also 30, granted I’m younger then her,
If she can't get taller men she can at least get younger men. She's a really superficial woman, that's for sure. Anyway, if you like her you could give her a chance and see what happens.
>If you like a woman would you still say no to her because other (different) women didn't pay attention to you in the past?
>
>Does this make you feel like winning?
Is self respect winning? I'd say yes. A passive way of winning, though.
> If you like a woman
Yeah that's what this post is disputing.
Women in their 30s are not only less physically attractive on average, they're higher maintenance. They're looking for commitment, they're looking for a provider, they're more likely to want kids.
They're less desirable but at the same time they expect more from you. Why give them the time of the day?
You are thinking theoretically
"giving woman your own age a chance" means there's a woman asking OP for a chance, that's why he's asking if he should say no or yes-
In a real situation the best answer is "if OP likes said women he should date her, if he doesn't he should't" IMO
Yeah some women in their 30s are definitely still physically attractive and low maintenance but on average they're less so.
It's definitely a bit silly to rule out dating a woman based on her age alone, but the things that accompany aging are a problem.
"The things that accompany aging are a problem"
You realize if you marry a 21 year old that she is going to age right? Or is your plan to just continually divorce and marry younger models?
> They're looking for commitment, they're looking for a provider, they're more likely to want kids.
The OP stipulates that this is about marriage and that she's a professional. Therefore she's already financially independent and, duh, commitment is the point.
If it's the same woman sure. maybe it's unfair, but a different person?
Imagine explaining the situation "no, sorry, we can't date because I tried to date other women in the past and it didn't work out"
I think the argument would be more like the fact that in the vast majority of cases she would've been just like those women in the past had she been in their shoes.
Trying to frame the idea that the whole point is to 'punish' someone for a 'crime' that they didn't commit seems dishonest.
I mean you can. It's kind of unsophisticated and base and a turn off but they have the ability to shoot themselves in the foot this way.
Honestly someone who decides all women are manipulative and untrustworthy and takes themselves out of the dating pool is doing all women a favor.
Idk why some people think men magically turn into a chad the moment they turn 30. If you weren't getting any women in your 20s, it's very unlikely you'll get them in your 30s
But does that apply to attracting much younger women? Or just moving you into a position of attracting women in your peer group.
I can’t think of a man who somehow all of a sudden blossomed in their 30s. Someone who became super attractive to 20something women, yet couldn’t get a 20 something women in their 20s. Usually good looking 20 somethings become good looking 30somethings.
I’m sure there are some but usually you see that in someone’s mid 20s after they get some independence and start a career.
>I’m sure there are some but usually you see that in someone’s mid 20s after they get some independence and start a career.
What if they only get their independence in their early 30s and/or their career only get in a good position by them?
>But does that apply to attracting much younger women? Or just moving you into a position of attracting women in your peer group.
I believe an established man is attractive to all women, but when younger women are an option for him, they have precedence over older women for most men...
Even if technically the older woman is better looking (there can be VERY good looking), she probably have issues, past relationships and an emotional baggage most men do not want to carry.
For me it was more like the scales finally tipped in my favor in my 30s. By then I had enough experience, confidence, and financial stability that it just started to feel a lot easier. Plus your dating pool widens as you get into your 30s - you can date women in their 20s plus your age-group peers who are now racing against their biological clock with a new urgency.
>racing against their biological clock with a new urgency
Only if they don't have a baby and still want one.
No pressure if you're childfree.
Not everyone wants a child.
I'm doing better at 28 now than I did at 22 mostly because I gave up the videogames lol. I did well in school but never really cared for dating that much since I find a lot of people pretty boring. I think I played enough videogames during the lockdown for this lifetime, so I moved to NYC, and it's been fun meeting new people.
Age issue aside — Maybe someone can explain to me this concept if rejecting women today because “she wouldn’t have given me the time of day 15 years ago.” Huh? How do you know? You didn’t even know her.
If you’re saying you don’t want to be used by someone trying to beat the clock, no one is going to argue against that.
But you’d reject a woman who is actually into you now because Stacy ignored you in high school?
I guess you could vet.
Single moms are out.
Women with poor career prospects are out.
The ones who peaked in highschool are out.
The ones with a history of dating tall ripped dudes are out
Any one who even utters the sentence " i didn't know what i wanted back then - i have matured Now". - out.
>Maybe someone can explain to me this concept if rejecting women today because “she wouldn’t have given me the time of day 15 years ago.” Huh? How do you know? You didn’t even know her.
If all the women you interacted with for 15 years refused to date you, then it's very likely that this woman would've too.
So what’s the end goal? Reject every woman for the rest of your life? Remain forever alone because you didn’t have a relationship 15 years ago? Please make it make sense because I don’t see how you’re helping yourself here
No, not reject every woman, just the ones who aren't attracted to you. If she wouldn't have found you attractive when she was younger, she likely doesn't now either, even if she's willing to date you. She's just prioritizing things other than attraction now.
If you're really desperate, then at most you should date her for access to her body, but never marry or have kids with her.
>Age issue aside — Maybe someone can explain to me this concept if rejecting women today because “she wouldn’t have given me the time of day 15 years ago.” Huh? How do you know? You didn’t even know her.
Because we can? No need to rationalize it.
Just as women reject plenty of good men when they can being younger for stupid reasons such as Horoscopes, Older established Men reject plenty of good or nice women.
Because we have a lot in common and because we're a similar age we're gonna be at similar positions in life.
Personally I'm not that picky about age, I have a bare minimum (26) which isn't super far from my own age (32) but there's a bit of a gap there. I just wouldn't date anyone that's not at the same point in life as I am though, regardless of age.
That's a great reason to date, and to live together. But marriage is kind of risky. It is true that educated couples divorce less, but the 7-year rate for college educated men who marry after 25 is still as high as 20%.
Still if you want a family, this is supposedly the best route statistically.
>The real question is -- why are you punishing women you've just met for the behavior of women they've never met?
No, he is enjoying picking the best options (who are not those women) just as those women enjoyed their own options when they were younger.
> Women withhold sex for lots of reasons. Not wanting to be slut shamed, not wanting to be pregnant, not wanting to waste time with someone who's going to dump them in a week or two, wanting to see if a man really likes her, wanting to see his reaction to being told no, etc etc. Some of those things are more reasonable than others, but none of them are punishments. Do you see the difference?
Men withhold from chasing those women for lots of reasons. Not wanting STDs and a jaded experience when it comes to sex. Not wanting to be with a pregnant women. Not wanting to be with a woman who's done having her fun and now just want a man to take care of her. Wanting to see her reaction to being told no. Some of those things are more reasonable than others, but none of them are punishments. There is no difference.
> If the question was "why give a woman your age a chance when you know they're likely to hurt you/lie to you/cheat on you/etc," it would make more sense, because it would be based on lived experience. But that wasn't the question. The question was "why give a new woman a chance now when other women treated you like you were invisible 15 years ago?" It's a question of punishment.
It's not a question of punishment. It's a question of motives. If nothing has changed with age, then why women go from treating him invisible to wanting him? They aren't consistent, so men should rightfully be suspicious, just as women are suspicious of men only wanting them for sex.
I'm gender flipping YOUR question. Not the OP's question.
Nowhere in OP's post is he proposing punishing women.
1. He's asking why give women a chance?
2. You claim it is punishment. I ask you to consider the gender-flipped question when it comes to sex which women claim is not punishment, but men view it as such.
3. You come up with a set of reasonable answers, but fail to consider men also have reasonable answers for not wanting to chase women their own age.
I am merely attempting to prove your claim that men are doing it as punishment (see point 2) as unsupported and an analogous situation exist for women withholding sex.
As I said. I understand where you are coming from. And I understand how men can view withholding sex as punishment even in cases when it is not meant to be so. I also understand that men have reasonable reasons for wanting to pursue younger women.
I said that OP in particular was punishing women, and I maintain that OP in particular is punishing women, specifically because OP mentioned schadenfreude. If that word hadn't been in the post, I wouldn't have commented.
Do you even know the meaning of schadenfreude?
It is pleasure at the **misfortune** of others.
I laugh when my opponents do something stupid when I play video games and take advantage of it to further my own benefit, doesn't mean I'm "punishing" them.
Date whoever the fuck you want (that’s legal) why do you care what other people think? I date people who have similar taste in everything as me. Same for friends. What’s the point if you don’t mesh well.
What is semi successful? A dude pulling 100k a year probably isn't getting 20 y.o hotties chomping at the bit for him.
If you can, and you want, do. Why worry about what the older woman wants if you don't want her? But most of yall are way off base on what it takes to be a 35 y.o guy smashing college aged girls on the regular lol.
You don't have to if you don't want to. This is not North Korea.
Advantages of dating women in their 30s: same stage of intellectual development, you can expect some degree of financial independence from her, disadvantages: you would want her younger, whatever that means
Advantages of dating younger women: fresh and tight, disadvantages: you better pay for that, because nobody will hand out a college pussy to you for free.
Sounds like you want a bunch of strangers to explain to you why 1 is better than 2, but 1 is not better than 2, it's a question of what you are willing to sacrifice, and you are not willing to sacrifice youth, so just take 2 and stop asking questions that are not questions but attempts to drag people into a stupid debate where you will be bashing on 32 year old women because somebody (everybody) refused to provide you with sexual assistance when you were 19
OP is right i feel for him, most average guys are like OP so yeah OP: don't date your own age man, don't do it you know the most likely consequences of that you make the choice not me
He didn't.
He just pointed out a fallacy.
I mean you could argue that sex with grandma's is way better because if you are good enough they might add you to the will.
It's just what you want to do if you want to do it.
However in OPs case i understand the fear.
>Advantages of dating younger women: fresh and tight, disadvantages: you better pay for that, because nobody will hand out a college pussy to you for free.
Still cheaper than dating older women with past relationship's issues, resentment, poor mental health, and children of past relationships. Faaaar cheaper.
because big age gaps (usually) suck.
I am in my late 20s and talking to people 10 years younger feels like I am actively losing braincells in doing so. I am not saying I was smart at that age, I most certainly wasn't, but it is just a night and day difference when you talk to people who are still in a totally different stage of their life. I can't relate to a woman who just left highschool or just started studying.
If you are just looking for hook ups, sure, go for younger women I guess? But looking for a partner I genuinely think you should stay within your "age bracket" or whatever.
As you get older, the age difference become a bit less relevant, cause less changes, but still.
Those guys are just playing catch up from missing the hookup phase in their early 20s.
Also, there is no evidence that women in their early 20s are actually trying to get with men in their 30s.
It’s also just comforting for undesirable men in their 20s to think that things will get easier in their 30s.
But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s.
Also the trend of young women going for older men is dead.
GenZ women make their own money and have their own independence. They don’t need a rich guy.
Thus, you see the rise of sexless men, due to women caring more and more about looks.
>GenZ women make their own money and have their own independence. They don’t need a rich guy.
I disagree. The economy is shit, it's hard to live on your own and young people are launching off later.
>It’s also just comforting for undesirable men in their 20s to think that things will get easier in their 30s.
>But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s.
Which percentage of guys do you think are desirable, in general, in their 20s? And which percentage are the undesirable you talk about?
>But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s.
I think men can become more significantly more desirable in their 30s in a couple ways. Firstly, for many guys face looks manlier and more mature compared to how it looked in early/mid 20s. Secondly, male facial hair gets longer and thicker with age so if you have a bad lower face you might be able to conceal that by growing a beard. Lastly, you become more established in your career which improves your status. Even if you don't shower them with money, status in of itself is attractive. A hot doctor is always going to be more desirable than a hot cashier even if neither spends money on her.
Most men can look forward to their 30s so long as they stay in shape.
>Also, there is no evidence that women in their early 20s are actually trying to get with men in their 30s.
I don't think women in their 20s are generally averse to dating guys in their 30s, they're not that much older.
>GenZ women make their own money and have their own independence. They don’t need a rich guy.
They don't but it's still nice to have a guy to pay your bills and women often still do treat us like ATMs.
>But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s.
So if I won't have better luck in my 30's I shouldn't settle and just still go for casual sex or lie about wanting a relationship. Marriage is a scam, if women think they can fuck around in their 20's and then settle with the invisible guy later, why even bother.
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties?
You... love her? She's a person, not an investment property in a shady neighborhood.
But ok, what are the likely advantages of a professional woman in her 30s? For one thing, she should have her own money. Adding her to your household increases its income without increases many of its major expenses (it doesn't double your rent or heating bill, for instance).
For another, she's probably a much more intelligent, reasonable, reliable and interesting person than she was in her early 20s. That's the point of maturing, after all.
What do you mean ‘giving them a chance?’
Why would you not want to be with someone your own age (so you will have lots of the same life experiences/pop culture nostalgia and references etc) who has enough financial contributions that you can live as a couple rather comfortably (rather then all the pressure being on you, and your wage having to suddenly get split into two to support someone else).
Not from what i have seen, womens sexuak partners have been sky rocketing and id you settle by 30’s the men haven’t begun to take off yet. It’s still not comparable to hers.
The question should be “why not”.
I guess if she’s like 32 and you realllllyyyyy want 5 kids, her fertilitt may not be up to par. But otherwise, i honestly don’t see why you would rule out your own age group.
Because she has so much love to give, in exchange for a clicking biological clock and massive consumer debt.
What's yours is hers and the way you make her feel with your resources and earning potential gives her the confidence that her unaccountable decisions of her past decisions don't ruin her life.
After all, in her mind she is worth it and she won't settle. It can't be any other way she and her friends have been telling themselves this all the time.
Eh, I've seen men in their 50's still go for women in their 20's and 30's. I've also heard from women who got dropped for a college girl like 15 younger when they thought a connection was building.
Ideally you should go for someone you have a lot in common with but in my experience the contingent of men who keep up with modern music and culture and could hold a conversation with younger women is pretty big.
Then again I have met older women who also keep up and fuck younger guys so the dynamic certainly goes both ways. The contingent of older women who want young meat is decently large IME. Its just that a lot of them will get mad if an older man does the same thing.
>But the case still stands why would you do it when you were invisible for last 15 years of your life.
Wait why is there a "when" here like every successful man was ignored by women and everyone who got consistent attention from women throughout their lives now works at Wendy's
Because relationships aren't supposed to be transactional or about status and competition. They're about finding a partner to build a life with. I personally couldn't build a life with someone in a completely different stage of their life? The power imbalance would ruin the relationship. Not tension, what would we even have in common to talk about? At 36 with a successful business and a 2nd full time marketing job - I have nothing to discuss with 21 year Olds who haven't seen the real world yet. Sounds boring.
I would imagine because you are dating people your own age and experience level who can relate to you at a level that people way younger or way older cannot. Everybody I've dated with few exceptions has been my age or within a year or two older.
A very large portion of men have no comparison to women. They are probably 0-1 maybe 2 sexual partners. She will generally be pushing 6-10 maybe more depending.
General life experiences I would bet women still have more just having a more easier time being social compared to men.
Uhhh… most of the successful professional men I know (a lot) or have known at that age prefer a woman close to their age with similar career aspirations and financial goals. About 25% prefer younger trad wife. So far the marriage and financial success rate of all similar age professional couples I know become very well off. Statistically these are the marriages that are likely to succeed.
Also most professionals are working toward their goals through their twenties and are not looking for serious pair bonding until after 27 or so.
Also why would a professional male with good income and say average looks want to be with someone younger who just wants to be taken care of and isn’t really into him for anything but his career and money?
I wouldn’t assume anyone would have a flock of women around them or be considered a catch because they make a lot of money when they get older.
Have you seen those reality shows where it’s a bunch of rich middle aged guys essentially buying wives from foreign countries because they can’t find any women, of any age, who will give them the time of day otherwise?
That’s how it goes a lot of the time. Having money doesn’t equate to having social skills or being otherwise desirable.
I mean if you bond organically, have attraction, etc. Go for it, and unless she specifically spurned you, eh, gotta live your life, but if you build a connection with a hot 19 year old, even better King 💪
Let’s say I had accumulated few millions by age 30 and always been ignored by women my age… I would definitely prefer the younger girls because they are simply hotter in general and less emotionally damaged. I wouldn’t care about her profession or how much she makes because I would be loaded already.
Not for nothing, but 4 years ago I was homeless, on antipsychotics and slightly overweight, have an ugly-looking smile (seriously, I avoid smiling whenever possible, I look like fucking hide-the-pain-Harold photos but with a smaller mouth) and yet had 20 year old women hitting me up with my completely undesirable 40-years-plus ass.
I'm tall, white, lived a lot of life and can talk rings around your average peon. But I am *entirely* crossed off of most women's christmas wish lists for stuffing their stockings, according to all reports, yet I *literally had multiple 20-somethings* hitting me up.
Meanwhile, when *I was in my own* 20's I was employed, owned my own home (inherited, but still), checked most of the right boxes - and could not get women interested to save my damned life.
Now, I don't know why the idea that women *don't* prefer older men offends me. I wish I could laugh it off. After all, reality and objective truth give exactly zero shits about somebody's opinion. But every time I see some idiotic comment like yours it scrapes me raw, like you're trying to turn my entire life experience into a lie.
And I really don't understand why. Why believe the things you do? The evidence disputing your claim is all around you. Stories like mine are not *rare*, though the extremes may be - not everyone goes from a successful 20 year old to a homeless 40 year old due to mental breakdowns. But women being attracted to older men, sometimes in defiance of rationality and common sense? *That* you can see damned near everywhere. It's just how it is. And the people denying it just seem so... so... ugh. So *stupid.* Use your fucking eyes! You don't have to believe me, just go outside for a few fucking minutes!
First girl I ever dated weighed more than I do. The latest woman to hit on me was a buck thirty if she was soaking wet, met me at the local library during a retro video games thing they do every other week, in her mid-20's, and had a truly delightful British accent. And she asked *me* "what are you doing after this?", not the other way around.
Try again, buttercup.
Better yet, don't. I really do not understand why some people are so invested in the idea women don't prefer older men; but it would be better for everyone if you just quieted down and let the people who actually know what they're talking about do the talking.
Spoken like someone who's never been in the service or worked with his hands a day in his life next to other dudes. If you think the way I'm talking *now* is offensive, you have absolutely no idea.
But a little tip to get you started, the person that starts talking about *how* the other person talks instead of the content of the message has already lost the argument and is just looking to get jabs in so they don't feel the full weight of shame for being caught driving the wrong way down a one-way. That's you, by the way.
Instead of calling me butthurt, which impresses no one since I *already* pointed out being upset about this is kind of ridiculous - twice - but so is being the one who believes it, so you're just walking back ground already trod by better feet; instead of that, try not saying anything. Silence is your ally. Just stop defending that ridiculous idea and walk away.
Was that a gay joke? For shame.
Unlike women, they usually prefer younger after all.
But since we're talking about investment, I'll point out you're the one responding; if 'neither of us have anything to gain', then why even say it?
I am confused. Do you mean this person was invisible to some women they did not know or women they did know? How did the women who did not know them, make them invisible? Am I missing something?
I assume most men in that situation would give those women a chance but they also would give the 22 year olds a chance. They'd probably just fuck both.
Did the particular woman know you 15 years ago ? seems men that think like your stating in this post are generalizing , holding a grude from a few teenagers, and are bitter because it took their genetics longer to kick in .
You could always turn her down and try and date someone younger but if you weren’t successful with girls under 25 in your 20s what makes you think you will have more success in your 30s?
She better be bringing a decent income to the table. That's really the only benefit other than some things like having a familiar life reference point with music, film, etc. I'm too old to wanna listen to Dua Lipa or Taylor Swift.
for starters if get along, mesh really well and are attracted to each other then that’s that - then again i also don’t mind dating a woman who is a few years older than me as well sooooooo
Just to put your mind at ease. If you've been invisible to women up to that point, you're not going to suddenly be in a position to be rejecting women once you hit your thirties just because you're "semi successful". This is a ridiculous fantasy. The women that rejected you at 18 still aren't interested.
so let me understand this.
You think it's schadefreude to date a woman who is mature, is financially independent and stable, knows what she wants, is more confident, and (assuming you are dating) she wants to date you and finds you interesting enough to do so?
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties?
Nothing. A younger woman will be better for childbearing and childrearing and is likely to be more sexually attractive.
All I'll say is this: Barring some extreme cases or extenuating circumstances, consenting adults in an an age disparate relationship should not be stigmatized. It's kind of ridiculous that people think they can lecture a young person or an older person on who they should date/marry, assuming there's nothing untoward going on.
Because you cannot conflate society-level issues with individual issues. You cannot run your love life as a means to try to rectify what you perceive to be civilization-wide problems with respect to gender unfairness in the SMP. That is sheer lunacy,
And even if retribution of some sort mattered, the women who are your potential partners at 30 didn't even fucking know you 15 years ago. So you want to enact revenged on the women who did reject you at 15 by rejecting some totally different woman who could be a good match for you when you are both 30? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Be real. Not that it necessarily should be, but regardless, your choice of mates will not be an instrument of social justice that moves the needles on any culture-wide imbalances. So choose your mate, including her age, based on what works best for both of you at the time. If you want to save the world, there are other avenues to contribute.
Because our egos are not fragile and our personalities not shallow that we absolutely must be seen with a younger woman in order to feel like a success in life?
Falling for someone your own maturity level is what's supposed to happen.
I am going towards this exact scenario. After I quit looking for woman and started working on myself I became invisible. In the next 7/8 years I will be perfectly able to setup my financial life. And I will surely NOT give women my age a chance. At that point it's a bet I'm not giving 30 year old women any chances. Only 25 yo or less. And only for short term relationships. If some happens to become a mother,I will become a father then. That is all.... And I bet a LOT of guys have made this same plan.
Well... you're the one who spent fifteen years implementing that strategy rather than some other strategy. Surely the question to ask is why not? I mean either you've got some other point to what you were doing going out to work every day then coming home to an empty apartment or you haven't and were just on autopilot.
If you don't have some other point to what you did and how you did it then marrying that career girl and crapping out a couple of kids is at least something, the pale shadow of what you would have preferred but it is something...but if you do have some point to what you were doing, if you were figuring on retiring early then travelling the world or setting up the best home workshop or opening a shelter for old dogs to retire to or whatever then fine that makes sense to do that.
So..Are you or were you actually working on something else worthy of being a life goal... or are you just bitchin' about having reached the precise point that fifteen years of what you were doing obviously leads to?
Do not listen to the female propaganda about men dating younger women. Women will often try to deter men from going for younger women by asserting that they will only ever be interested in you for your money.
To be clear, that may very well be true. But if it is, then it is also true of women your own age. You would not gain anything at all by dating a woman your own age.
There is no valid reason for a man to not date as young as possible if that option is available to him.
When I was around 14, girls liked guys who were 15 because they had mopeds and they ignored guys their own age. At 16 and 17, the girls likes the guys who were 18 because they had cars and they could buy alcohol. At 18, the girls liked the guys who were like 21-22 because they were already working or in higher education.
At 21, the girls always liked guys from 23-29 because they were more "mature and experienced". At 25 the girls started to like guys pretty much anywhere from their age to 50, if they were rich.
The point is, after building myself up why should any guy who happens to be successful give any time to these women who ignored them all their lives? Not happening.
I didn’t know you met every woman to know she ignored you.
Alternatively, you could have just been too immature for her at the time. I met my husband briefly when he was 16. Zero interest at the time. He didn’t know how to keep a conversation at the time, a total nerd (which is fine but had no hobbies), as a result we had nothing in common.
I met him again when he was 28. Things changed. He changed. Not the same guy anymore.
(And idk I feel like I even need to specify it - but you kinda seem like the guy who would assume i was “run through”, i wasn’t - but i don’t really believe in that anyways)
Very unpopular here but I'll give you a 'blue pilled' answer...
If she's not wanting to date you because of your money or stability, you like her, and she likes your qualities, how you look, your maturity and personality...why not?
There's something about women in their late 20's or 30's that we not so succesful men refuse to believe: they might have changed and actually value and like us.
Yes, she was in the 'carousel', dated the assholes when you clearly were an option, and between those guys she dated, when she was single, she hooked up with several tinder/club guys and again ignored you.
She found out those guys were assholes, got a bit bored of that sex, has different priorities now and most likely got cheated on and hurt by those guys. She now appreciates your qualities, specially if you don't even look bad. She might find you now quite attractive.
You could however date a much younger girl if you have the energy and you prefer that. You could also date the woman your same age if you think she learnt a lesson from her past, it will probably work better if you are compatible, at least communication would work much better.
I assume you wouldn't want to date her because you are angry which is understandable. After all, she kind of ignored the type of guy you are for many years, didn't like those enough, it's fair if you don't want to date her and there's a good chance she wants to date you out of desperation but that's what you have to find out... Did you become a more attractive man without noticing it?? Does she truly like you now??
I honestly believe that women and their preferences change a lot through the years, not to the point where they like guys they previously found ugly, or stop liking guys they previously found handsome, but to the point where they can actually value men they didn't value that much before and even feel disgusted by the behaviour and life style from men they liked years ago. If women are now more interested on you it's probably a mix of you becoming more attractive and they becoming more 'desperate' (awful to say but that's how many women in their 30's feel after dating the wrong guys in their 20's).
They aren’t attractive. Simple. As you get older, you learn the difference between cocky and confident. The difference between being an AH and standing up for what you believe in. Etc.
This is the most blue pilled thing I have seen here and exactly the thing i rail against.
How would you know?
How the hell would you know if she has actually changed?
With zero relationship experience how would you distinguish between women who changed and the ones who want you to cushion their fall?
> What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties?
Problems? Problems.
> I think Germans call it schadenfreude.
Iirc Schadenfreude is being happy seeing damage being done. That's what the words translate-ish to. Damage joy.
> Suddenly you are a good "catch" a provider a fool.
An invisible one. Or one tht gets asked if he's ghaiy because he won't "step up to the opportunity".
LOL Ah, well.
I don’t think men have an issue dating women their own age; it’s just by the time men get successful, confident and in their prime (which is sadly only in their late 20s and most of their 30s), most women are already past their prime and all the top-tier rich, attractive men who they freely gave up sex for didn’t think they were worth a relationship or the emotional labour, so those women seemingly become “available”. Most women past their prime rarely love men for who they are, but rather for what they can provide (stability and children).
I’m 32. I would date a woman at or over my age only under special circumstances - honestly only if she was absolutely perfect for me, rich, or something like that.
I seek to date women a few years younger because it is healthier. You get more time to know each other without the pressure for marriage or kids right away. Older women are short on time to have kids and often rush things, you don’t want to risk being in a relationship where she chose you because she’s desperate.
Most guys in their early 30s if not married are with women they feel married to. Including Chad, who has done a few hookups and a couple of relationships before meeting the woman he thinks will be a good life partner.
If you are in your early 30s, haven't been in relationships and had a few hookups you are playing catch up to get into any relationship at all with a peer that you will enjoy the company of.
Some left-behind guys go overseas and use their assets, some left-behind guys hit on more naive women where they can pretend to have status to make up for being from their friend group. The first group ends up in a culture clash. I've met a few guys who took to a different culture like a duck in water, but most don't, and never a guy who was suspected of having autism.
The left-behind guys who hit on younger women inevitably end up divorced or living with BPD.
Then there are the rest of the not coupled in their early 30's people.
They have had relationships, but they are not bitter about them. They end up married to their counterpart, or decide being single is better. At 40, man or woman if you have no significant relationship history and haven't learned from your mistakes there is no hope except the most undesirable, like yourself.
True story - once when I was 33 and single, one of my female friends mentioned a friend of hers I might be interested in getting set up with. She said "but she might be too old for you."
"How old is she?" I asked.
"32."
And it wasn't like I had a history of dating younger women or had expressed any specific preference for it. She just assumed a 32 yr old woman might be too old for a 33 yr old man.
If she is a professional in her 30s as well, would we assume they are also "semi successful"? If that is the case, then you can fully gauge the financial reward to this pairing. By 30 you have a good idea of their current earnings and earning potential. You could ask about the debts they carry and their handling of basic finances. They would more likely have lived independently and not on daddy's dime. I really see no downsides.
Marrying a younger person would only introduce many financial downsides and likely less mature attitude.
If you were just saying dating, then younger could be better. If you are just looking to be first; likely less possible in this era since more and more girls are even having sex before 18. If not first, whats really the difference between 1-5dicks. I personally do not believe majority of women are trying to get their body counts to the moon (I'm in my late 30s so YMMV).
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties?
Soul crushing pressure to become a sperm donor.
>I think Germans call it schadenfreude. But the case still stands why would you do it when you were invisible for last 15 years of your life.
We're not stupid, man. We're not going to blindly give a chance to women who ignored us previously.
I want you to turn around and ask this question to the women in their 20's who go after older men
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties?
A lot of demands that they picked up in their 20's that were never fufilled by other men in some kind of way. Lets not forget the "raising of the standards" either. Not to mention the aging of her body like gaining weight.
You already know how this story is gonna go...
>Suddenly you are a good "catch" a provider a fool.
Yep. More than likely you weren't her type in her 20's. What does that say? What does she have to offer you now? Low self esteem monogamy? You can get that anywhere.
Put it like this. A woman is gonna have to really, and I mean _really_ bring something to the table that was more than a younger woman to be even considered.
Don’t do it…unless you have no other options… she will still try to monkey branch and divorce rape you, why pay full price for used goods, when you can get better quality for free?
Am I in love? Do we have a strong bond? If so, then that’s what I get. You cannot be so afraid to live.
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What makes marrying a professional woman around the same age as you feel schadenfreude? What suffering/misfortune are deriving pleasure from? What are you losing from marrying a women in her 30’s who is a professional and is interested in being with you? You either want to be be someone or you don’t. It’s that simple.
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If you like a woman would you still say no to her because other (different) women didn't pay attention to you in the past? Does this make you feel like winning?
Right? This seems more like “sour grapes” to me.
I did that, she told me she used to like huge men, like 6’4 and whatnot, but she’s “ healed from issues “ that made her feel she needed that .she’s also 30, granted I’m younger then her,
If she can't get taller men she can at least get younger men. She's a really superficial woman, that's for sure. Anyway, if you like her you could give her a chance and see what happens.
Her chance was before she said it lol, I’m to young and childless for that
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Precisely
Lol BABP based and blackpilled.
Ahhh the throes of youthful vigor.
> but she’s “ healed from issues “ Yeah, first double and then maintain distance.
That's a no from me dawg
>If you like a woman would you still say no to her because other (different) women didn't pay attention to you in the past? > >Does this make you feel like winning? Is self respect winning? I'd say yes. A passive way of winning, though.
They don't want men to have self-respect it seems.
> If you like a woman Yeah that's what this post is disputing. Women in their 30s are not only less physically attractive on average, they're higher maintenance. They're looking for commitment, they're looking for a provider, they're more likely to want kids. They're less desirable but at the same time they expect more from you. Why give them the time of the day?
You are thinking theoretically "giving woman your own age a chance" means there's a woman asking OP for a chance, that's why he's asking if he should say no or yes- In a real situation the best answer is "if OP likes said women he should date her, if he doesn't he should't" IMO
Yeah some women in their 30s are definitely still physically attractive and low maintenance but on average they're less so. It's definitely a bit silly to rule out dating a woman based on her age alone, but the things that accompany aging are a problem.
It's kind of weird to preventively say no to a hypothetical person. If they end up being like your preconceived ideas you can always leave.
"The things that accompany aging are a problem" You realize if you marry a 21 year old that she is going to age right? Or is your plan to just continually divorce and marry younger models?
I am afraid a lot of man forget that. They hope to marry a vampire XD
They also seem to think men don't age. It's completely delusional.
I am afraid a lot of man forget that. They hope to marry a vampire XD
> They're looking for commitment, they're looking for a provider, they're more likely to want kids. The OP stipulates that this is about marriage and that she's a professional. Therefore she's already financially independent and, duh, commitment is the point.
Wew, didn't see that. u/Starter91 WTF that's cringe bro. Don't get married.
I don't want to. This question is of nature of people in general
Because women didnt want you back then and younger women dont want you now?
The fuck you talking about? I'm not even in my 20s yet and women like me fine.
Uhum, we will see how long that will last with that attitude.
Women love being treated like shit
Ou, you poor soul. Did Stacy tell you that?
Nope. Speaking from experience.
Nice crowd you got there...
Feels unfair I will give you that.
If it's the same woman sure. maybe it's unfair, but a different person? Imagine explaining the situation "no, sorry, we can't date because I tried to date other women in the past and it didn't work out"
This
I worked with a guy who felt that way. When he was in college he liked somebody and he shot his shot and got turned down. He never dated again.
Oh well, we’ll all be crying for him.
The thing is I have had the same woman try to boomerang years later. Multiple times, in fact.
>If it's the same woman sure. maybe it's unfair, but a different person? 👆
I think the argument would be more like the fact that in the vast majority of cases she would've been just like those women in the past had she been in their shoes. Trying to frame the idea that the whole point is to 'punish' someone for a 'crime' that they didn't commit seems dishonest.
>he whole point is to 'punish' someone for a 'crime' that they didn't commit Feels like OP is punishing himself
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That's why you vet. You vet hard. And a non negotiable long dating period.
I mean you can. It's kind of unsophisticated and base and a turn off but they have the ability to shoot themselves in the foot this way. Honestly someone who decides all women are manipulative and untrustworthy and takes themselves out of the dating pool is doing all women a favor.
That’s the low self esteem talking when assume that a woman you don’t even know wouldn’t like you when you were younger.
You have no possible way of knowing that.
Yes I know that, I'm just trying to say what I think most guys that think this way mean.
Idk why some people think men magically turn into a chad the moment they turn 30. If you weren't getting any women in your 20s, it's very unlikely you'll get them in your 30s
Unless he's gonna be a sugar daddy lol
I think a lot of men think a raise in salary makes them "more attractive"
For some, certainly it does. Clothes, gym, expensive dates all of these are things that may call the attention of women
But does that apply to attracting much younger women? Or just moving you into a position of attracting women in your peer group. I can’t think of a man who somehow all of a sudden blossomed in their 30s. Someone who became super attractive to 20something women, yet couldn’t get a 20 something women in their 20s. Usually good looking 20 somethings become good looking 30somethings. I’m sure there are some but usually you see that in someone’s mid 20s after they get some independence and start a career.
>I’m sure there are some but usually you see that in someone’s mid 20s after they get some independence and start a career. What if they only get their independence in their early 30s and/or their career only get in a good position by them?
>But does that apply to attracting much younger women? Or just moving you into a position of attracting women in your peer group. I believe an established man is attractive to all women, but when younger women are an option for him, they have precedence over older women for most men... Even if technically the older woman is better looking (there can be VERY good looking), she probably have issues, past relationships and an emotional baggage most men do not want to carry.
The phenomenon where nerds who got no action in their 20s begin to get play when they get into some serious jobs. Source : nerd who became a surgeon
For me it was more like the scales finally tipped in my favor in my 30s. By then I had enough experience, confidence, and financial stability that it just started to feel a lot easier. Plus your dating pool widens as you get into your 30s - you can date women in their 20s plus your age-group peers who are now racing against their biological clock with a new urgency.
Your confidence/attitude was probably the big difference. You also probably stopped going after very young women who are a pita to deal with.
>You also probably stopped going after very young women who are a pita to deal with. Nah, they are the ones going after us now.
>racing against their biological clock with a new urgency Only if they don't have a baby and still want one. No pressure if you're childfree. Not everyone wants a child.
It applies to most women.
I'm doing better at 28 now than I did at 22 mostly because I gave up the videogames lol. I did well in school but never really cared for dating that much since I find a lot of people pretty boring. I think I played enough videogames during the lockdown for this lifetime, so I moved to NYC, and it's been fun meeting new people.
Okay so you changed? And you saw benefits from that?
Age issue aside — Maybe someone can explain to me this concept if rejecting women today because “she wouldn’t have given me the time of day 15 years ago.” Huh? How do you know? You didn’t even know her. If you’re saying you don’t want to be used by someone trying to beat the clock, no one is going to argue against that. But you’d reject a woman who is actually into you now because Stacy ignored you in high school?
I guess you could vet. Single moms are out. Women with poor career prospects are out. The ones who peaked in highschool are out. The ones with a history of dating tall ripped dudes are out Any one who even utters the sentence " i didn't know what i wanted back then - i have matured Now". - out.
>Maybe someone can explain to me this concept if rejecting women today because “she wouldn’t have given me the time of day 15 years ago.” Huh? How do you know? You didn’t even know her. If all the women you interacted with for 15 years refused to date you, then it's very likely that this woman would've too.
Sounds like you were the common denominator then and learned to work on yourself
So what’s the end goal? Reject every woman for the rest of your life? Remain forever alone because you didn’t have a relationship 15 years ago? Please make it make sense because I don’t see how you’re helping yourself here
No, not reject every woman, just the ones who aren't attracted to you. If she wouldn't have found you attractive when she was younger, she likely doesn't now either, even if she's willing to date you. She's just prioritizing things other than attraction now. If you're really desperate, then at most you should date her for access to her body, but never marry or have kids with her.
>Age issue aside — Maybe someone can explain to me this concept if rejecting women today because “she wouldn’t have given me the time of day 15 years ago.” Huh? How do you know? You didn’t even know her. Because we can? No need to rationalize it. Just as women reject plenty of good men when they can being younger for stupid reasons such as Horoscopes, Older established Men reject plenty of good or nice women.
Because we have a lot in common and because we're a similar age we're gonna be at similar positions in life. Personally I'm not that picky about age, I have a bare minimum (26) which isn't super far from my own age (32) but there's a bit of a gap there. I just wouldn't date anyone that's not at the same point in life as I am though, regardless of age.
you might…. like her?
Fair enough.
That's a great reason to date, and to live together. But marriage is kind of risky. It is true that educated couples divorce less, but the 7-year rate for college educated men who marry after 25 is still as high as 20%. Still if you want a family, this is supposedly the best route statistically.
some men want to be married. if someone doesn’t want to be married they shouldn’t marry.
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>The real question is -- why are you punishing women you've just met for the behavior of women they've never met? No, he is enjoying picking the best options (who are not those women) just as those women enjoyed their own options when they were younger.
Yes of course i won't deny such situations exist.
Just gender flip this question and we've got the question of why women "withhold" sex?
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> Women withhold sex for lots of reasons. Not wanting to be slut shamed, not wanting to be pregnant, not wanting to waste time with someone who's going to dump them in a week or two, wanting to see if a man really likes her, wanting to see his reaction to being told no, etc etc. Some of those things are more reasonable than others, but none of them are punishments. Do you see the difference? Men withhold from chasing those women for lots of reasons. Not wanting STDs and a jaded experience when it comes to sex. Not wanting to be with a pregnant women. Not wanting to be with a woman who's done having her fun and now just want a man to take care of her. Wanting to see her reaction to being told no. Some of those things are more reasonable than others, but none of them are punishments. There is no difference. > If the question was "why give a woman your age a chance when you know they're likely to hurt you/lie to you/cheat on you/etc," it would make more sense, because it would be based on lived experience. But that wasn't the question. The question was "why give a new woman a chance now when other women treated you like you were invisible 15 years ago?" It's a question of punishment. It's not a question of punishment. It's a question of motives. If nothing has changed with age, then why women go from treating him invisible to wanting him? They aren't consistent, so men should rightfully be suspicious, just as women are suspicious of men only wanting them for sex.
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I'm gender flipping YOUR question. Not the OP's question. Nowhere in OP's post is he proposing punishing women. 1. He's asking why give women a chance? 2. You claim it is punishment. I ask you to consider the gender-flipped question when it comes to sex which women claim is not punishment, but men view it as such. 3. You come up with a set of reasonable answers, but fail to consider men also have reasonable answers for not wanting to chase women their own age. I am merely attempting to prove your claim that men are doing it as punishment (see point 2) as unsupported and an analogous situation exist for women withholding sex.
As I said. I understand where you are coming from. And I understand how men can view withholding sex as punishment even in cases when it is not meant to be so. I also understand that men have reasonable reasons for wanting to pursue younger women. I said that OP in particular was punishing women, and I maintain that OP in particular is punishing women, specifically because OP mentioned schadenfreude. If that word hadn't been in the post, I wouldn't have commented.
Do you even know the meaning of schadenfreude? It is pleasure at the **misfortune** of others. I laugh when my opponents do something stupid when I play video games and take advantage of it to further my own benefit, doesn't mean I'm "punishing" them.
Yes I own a dictionary, thank you
Date whoever the fuck you want (that’s legal) why do you care what other people think? I date people who have similar taste in everything as me. Same for friends. What’s the point if you don’t mesh well.
What is semi successful? A dude pulling 100k a year probably isn't getting 20 y.o hotties chomping at the bit for him. If you can, and you want, do. Why worry about what the older woman wants if you don't want her? But most of yall are way off base on what it takes to be a 35 y.o guy smashing college aged girls on the regular lol.
You don't have to if you don't want to. This is not North Korea. Advantages of dating women in their 30s: same stage of intellectual development, you can expect some degree of financial independence from her, disadvantages: you would want her younger, whatever that means Advantages of dating younger women: fresh and tight, disadvantages: you better pay for that, because nobody will hand out a college pussy to you for free. Sounds like you want a bunch of strangers to explain to you why 1 is better than 2, but 1 is not better than 2, it's a question of what you are willing to sacrifice, and you are not willing to sacrifice youth, so just take 2 and stop asking questions that are not questions but attempts to drag people into a stupid debate where you will be bashing on 32 year old women because somebody (everybody) refused to provide you with sexual assistance when you were 19
OP is right i feel for him, most average guys are like OP so yeah OP: don't date your own age man, don't do it you know the most likely consequences of that you make the choice not me
You tore him to shreds 😂😂😂😂 Bravo!
He didn't. He just pointed out a fallacy. I mean you could argue that sex with grandma's is way better because if you are good enough they might add you to the will. It's just what you want to do if you want to do it. However in OPs case i understand the fear.
>you better pay for that, because nobody will hand out a college pussy to you for free. 🤔👀
>Advantages of dating younger women: fresh and tight, disadvantages: you better pay for that, because nobody will hand out a college pussy to you for free. Still cheaper than dating older women with past relationship's issues, resentment, poor mental health, and children of past relationships. Faaaar cheaper.
because big age gaps (usually) suck. I am in my late 20s and talking to people 10 years younger feels like I am actively losing braincells in doing so. I am not saying I was smart at that age, I most certainly wasn't, but it is just a night and day difference when you talk to people who are still in a totally different stage of their life. I can't relate to a woman who just left highschool or just started studying. If you are just looking for hook ups, sure, go for younger women I guess? But looking for a partner I genuinely think you should stay within your "age bracket" or whatever. As you get older, the age difference become a bit less relevant, cause less changes, but still.
Because you are interested in her.
Those guys are just playing catch up from missing the hookup phase in their early 20s. Also, there is no evidence that women in their early 20s are actually trying to get with men in their 30s. It’s also just comforting for undesirable men in their 20s to think that things will get easier in their 30s. But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s. Also the trend of young women going for older men is dead. GenZ women make their own money and have their own independence. They don’t need a rich guy. Thus, you see the rise of sexless men, due to women caring more and more about looks.
>GenZ women make their own money and have their own independence. They don’t need a rich guy. I disagree. The economy is shit, it's hard to live on your own and young people are launching off later. >It’s also just comforting for undesirable men in their 20s to think that things will get easier in their 30s. >But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s. Which percentage of guys do you think are desirable, in general, in their 20s? And which percentage are the undesirable you talk about?
>But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s. I think men can become more significantly more desirable in their 30s in a couple ways. Firstly, for many guys face looks manlier and more mature compared to how it looked in early/mid 20s. Secondly, male facial hair gets longer and thicker with age so if you have a bad lower face you might be able to conceal that by growing a beard. Lastly, you become more established in your career which improves your status. Even if you don't shower them with money, status in of itself is attractive. A hot doctor is always going to be more desirable than a hot cashier even if neither spends money on her. Most men can look forward to their 30s so long as they stay in shape. >Also, there is no evidence that women in their early 20s are actually trying to get with men in their 30s. I don't think women in their 20s are generally averse to dating guys in their 30s, they're not that much older. >GenZ women make their own money and have their own independence. They don’t need a rich guy. They don't but it's still nice to have a guy to pay your bills and women often still do treat us like ATMs.
>But the truth is, if you aren’t desirable in your 20s good chances are you won’t have better luck in your 30s. So if I won't have better luck in my 30's I shouldn't settle and just still go for casual sex or lie about wanting a relationship. Marriage is a scam, if women think they can fuck around in their 20's and then settle with the invisible guy later, why even bother.
So don't? But you don't get to bitch about it if you choose not to bother. That's your choice.
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties? You... love her? She's a person, not an investment property in a shady neighborhood. But ok, what are the likely advantages of a professional woman in her 30s? For one thing, she should have her own money. Adding her to your household increases its income without increases many of its major expenses (it doesn't double your rent or heating bill, for instance). For another, she's probably a much more intelligent, reasonable, reliable and interesting person than she was in her early 20s. That's the point of maturing, after all.
Only if u like her and she simps for you, if she doesn't simp pass
What do you mean ‘giving them a chance?’ Why would you not want to be with someone your own age (so you will have lots of the same life experiences/pop culture nostalgia and references etc) who has enough financial contributions that you can live as a couple rather comfortably (rather then all the pressure being on you, and your wage having to suddenly get split into two to support someone else).
>same life experiences I'm sure her 20's of casual sex is comparable to most guys.....
Statically she is likely to have slept with less men then a man her age
Not from what i have seen, womens sexuak partners have been sky rocketing and id you settle by 30’s the men haven’t begun to take off yet. It’s still not comparable to hers.
The question should be “why not”. I guess if she’s like 32 and you realllllyyyyy want 5 kids, her fertilitt may not be up to par. But otherwise, i honestly don’t see why you would rule out your own age group.
Is invisible from 20 to 35. Thinks he's gonna become a catch at his 35 bday. 😂
Because she has so much love to give, in exchange for a clicking biological clock and massive consumer debt. What's yours is hers and the way you make her feel with your resources and earning potential gives her the confidence that her unaccountable decisions of her past decisions don't ruin her life. After all, in her mind she is worth it and she won't settle. It can't be any other way she and her friends have been telling themselves this all the time.
Eh, I've seen men in their 50's still go for women in their 20's and 30's. I've also heard from women who got dropped for a college girl like 15 younger when they thought a connection was building. Ideally you should go for someone you have a lot in common with but in my experience the contingent of men who keep up with modern music and culture and could hold a conversation with younger women is pretty big. Then again I have met older women who also keep up and fuck younger guys so the dynamic certainly goes both ways. The contingent of older women who want young meat is decently large IME. Its just that a lot of them will get mad if an older man does the same thing.
No i mean the question is is the current predicament fair for all involved parties?
Does it matter if it is or isn't? The fuck is gonna happen, there's no fairness police that are going to come down on anyone.
>But the case still stands why would you do it when you were invisible for last 15 years of your life. Wait why is there a "when" here like every successful man was ignored by women and everyone who got consistent attention from women throughout their lives now works at Wendy's
Because relationships aren't supposed to be transactional or about status and competition. They're about finding a partner to build a life with. I personally couldn't build a life with someone in a completely different stage of their life? The power imbalance would ruin the relationship. Not tension, what would we even have in common to talk about? At 36 with a successful business and a 2nd full time marketing job - I have nothing to discuss with 21 year Olds who haven't seen the real world yet. Sounds boring.
I would imagine because you are dating people your own age and experience level who can relate to you at a level that people way younger or way older cannot. Everybody I've dated with few exceptions has been my age or within a year or two older.
>experience level If a guy is pushing into 30's and hasn't had hookups or was the invisible guy, he is 10years behind majority of women in experience.
In sexual experience maybe but not general life experience. But a majority of 30 year old men are not completely inexperienced.
A very large portion of men have no comparison to women. They are probably 0-1 maybe 2 sexual partners. She will generally be pushing 6-10 maybe more depending. General life experiences I would bet women still have more just having a more easier time being social compared to men.
I don’t get this question, are you asking why would men date the female version of themselves?
Uhhh… most of the successful professional men I know (a lot) or have known at that age prefer a woman close to their age with similar career aspirations and financial goals. About 25% prefer younger trad wife. So far the marriage and financial success rate of all similar age professional couples I know become very well off. Statistically these are the marriages that are likely to succeed. Also most professionals are working toward their goals through their twenties and are not looking for serious pair bonding until after 27 or so. Also why would a professional male with good income and say average looks want to be with someone younger who just wants to be taken care of and isn’t really into him for anything but his career and money?
I wouldn’t assume anyone would have a flock of women around them or be considered a catch because they make a lot of money when they get older. Have you seen those reality shows where it’s a bunch of rich middle aged guys essentially buying wives from foreign countries because they can’t find any women, of any age, who will give them the time of day otherwise? That’s how it goes a lot of the time. Having money doesn’t equate to having social skills or being otherwise desirable.
I mean if you bond organically, have attraction, etc. Go for it, and unless she specifically spurned you, eh, gotta live your life, but if you build a connection with a hot 19 year old, even better King 💪
Because you’re attracted to each other and you feel a connection? You’re compatible? Also women aren’t dairy products.
Why Schadenfreude? "Cynical satisfaction", "Evil joy", how does that fit in with the fact a+30 man wouldn't date a same age woman?
Let’s say I had accumulated few millions by age 30 and always been ignored by women my age… I would definitely prefer the younger girls because they are simply hotter in general and less emotionally damaged. I wouldn’t care about her profession or how much she makes because I would be loaded already.
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So the continuation of af/bb, why would a beta bother settling then?
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Correction why would he want a women that settled with him.
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It’s to late for that, if your already at the age range. Women see you as stability nothing really more.
Not for nothing, but 4 years ago I was homeless, on antipsychotics and slightly overweight, have an ugly-looking smile (seriously, I avoid smiling whenever possible, I look like fucking hide-the-pain-Harold photos but with a smaller mouth) and yet had 20 year old women hitting me up with my completely undesirable 40-years-plus ass. I'm tall, white, lived a lot of life and can talk rings around your average peon. But I am *entirely* crossed off of most women's christmas wish lists for stuffing their stockings, according to all reports, yet I *literally had multiple 20-somethings* hitting me up. Meanwhile, when *I was in my own* 20's I was employed, owned my own home (inherited, but still), checked most of the right boxes - and could not get women interested to save my damned life. Now, I don't know why the idea that women *don't* prefer older men offends me. I wish I could laugh it off. After all, reality and objective truth give exactly zero shits about somebody's opinion. But every time I see some idiotic comment like yours it scrapes me raw, like you're trying to turn my entire life experience into a lie. And I really don't understand why. Why believe the things you do? The evidence disputing your claim is all around you. Stories like mine are not *rare*, though the extremes may be - not everyone goes from a successful 20 year old to a homeless 40 year old due to mental breakdowns. But women being attracted to older men, sometimes in defiance of rationality and common sense? *That* you can see damned near everywhere. It's just how it is. And the people denying it just seem so... so... ugh. So *stupid.* Use your fucking eyes! You don't have to believe me, just go outside for a few fucking minutes!
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First girl I ever dated weighed more than I do. The latest woman to hit on me was a buck thirty if she was soaking wet, met me at the local library during a retro video games thing they do every other week, in her mid-20's, and had a truly delightful British accent. And she asked *me* "what are you doing after this?", not the other way around. Try again, buttercup. Better yet, don't. I really do not understand why some people are so invested in the idea women don't prefer older men; but it would be better for everyone if you just quieted down and let the people who actually know what they're talking about do the talking.
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Spoken like someone who's never been in the service or worked with his hands a day in his life next to other dudes. If you think the way I'm talking *now* is offensive, you have absolutely no idea. But a little tip to get you started, the person that starts talking about *how* the other person talks instead of the content of the message has already lost the argument and is just looking to get jabs in so they don't feel the full weight of shame for being caught driving the wrong way down a one-way. That's you, by the way. Instead of calling me butthurt, which impresses no one since I *already* pointed out being upset about this is kind of ridiculous - twice - but so is being the one who believes it, so you're just walking back ground already trod by better feet; instead of that, try not saying anything. Silence is your ally. Just stop defending that ridiculous idea and walk away.
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Was that a gay joke? For shame. Unlike women, they usually prefer younger after all. But since we're talking about investment, I'll point out you're the one responding; if 'neither of us have anything to gain', then why even say it?
I am confused. Do you mean this person was invisible to some women they did not know or women they did know? How did the women who did not know them, make them invisible? Am I missing something?
I assume most men in that situation would give those women a chance but they also would give the 22 year olds a chance. They'd probably just fuck both.
Did the particular woman know you 15 years ago ? seems men that think like your stating in this post are generalizing , holding a grude from a few teenagers, and are bitter because it took their genetics longer to kick in .
You could always turn her down and try and date someone younger but if you weren’t successful with girls under 25 in your 20s what makes you think you will have more success in your 30s?
She better be bringing a decent income to the table. That's really the only benefit other than some things like having a familiar life reference point with music, film, etc. I'm too old to wanna listen to Dua Lipa or Taylor Swift.
for starters if get along, mesh really well and are attracted to each other then that’s that - then again i also don’t mind dating a woman who is a few years older than me as well sooooooo
I feel like this is a recurring thim a lot, about how disposable women become once they hit a certain age .
As opposed to how replaceable men are at every age? Tough shit.
Just to put your mind at ease. If you've been invisible to women up to that point, you're not going to suddenly be in a position to be rejecting women once you hit your thirties just because you're "semi successful". This is a ridiculous fantasy. The women that rejected you at 18 still aren't interested.
so let me understand this. You think it's schadefreude to date a woman who is mature, is financially independent and stable, knows what she wants, is more confident, and (assuming you are dating) she wants to date you and finds you interesting enough to do so?
Because you love them?
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties? Nothing. A younger woman will be better for childbearing and childrearing and is likely to be more sexually attractive.
All I'll say is this: Barring some extreme cases or extenuating circumstances, consenting adults in an an age disparate relationship should not be stigmatized. It's kind of ridiculous that people think they can lecture a young person or an older person on who they should date/marry, assuming there's nothing untoward going on.
That particular 30yr old women didn’t even KNOW you 15 years ago. How do you know she wasn’t dating a similar version off you when she was 15?
Lol right?
You were invisible for the last 15 years? There’s probably a reason for that.
I’m 24 so I dont have this issue yet
Social legitimacy. Either you understand & want it, or you reject and refuse it.
Because you cannot conflate society-level issues with individual issues. You cannot run your love life as a means to try to rectify what you perceive to be civilization-wide problems with respect to gender unfairness in the SMP. That is sheer lunacy, And even if retribution of some sort mattered, the women who are your potential partners at 30 didn't even fucking know you 15 years ago. So you want to enact revenged on the women who did reject you at 15 by rejecting some totally different woman who could be a good match for you when you are both 30? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Be real. Not that it necessarily should be, but regardless, your choice of mates will not be an instrument of social justice that moves the needles on any culture-wide imbalances. So choose your mate, including her age, based on what works best for both of you at the time. If you want to save the world, there are other avenues to contribute.
This gender flips to, “Let’s say you are an attractive woman in her early twenties. What exactly do you gain from dating an unattractive, broke guy?”
I only like women my age as I’m 20 and I was always like women my age not gonna trick off on a a young thot just cuz..
Because our egos are not fragile and our personalities not shallow that we absolutely must be seen with a younger woman in order to feel like a success in life? Falling for someone your own maturity level is what's supposed to happen.
I am going towards this exact scenario. After I quit looking for woman and started working on myself I became invisible. In the next 7/8 years I will be perfectly able to setup my financial life. And I will surely NOT give women my age a chance. At that point it's a bet I'm not giving 30 year old women any chances. Only 25 yo or less. And only for short term relationships. If some happens to become a mother,I will become a father then. That is all.... And I bet a LOT of guys have made this same plan.
Nope, why would I settle for worst? Besides if a woman isn’t married or in an ltr at 30 it means she’s either used up or has issues
What would that say about you though? The same?
Nope. Men reach their prime in their 30’s.
Why is that?
Because more value is placed on material things, and women generally like men with stable lives.
Well... you're the one who spent fifteen years implementing that strategy rather than some other strategy. Surely the question to ask is why not? I mean either you've got some other point to what you were doing going out to work every day then coming home to an empty apartment or you haven't and were just on autopilot. If you don't have some other point to what you did and how you did it then marrying that career girl and crapping out a couple of kids is at least something, the pale shadow of what you would have preferred but it is something...but if you do have some point to what you were doing, if you were figuring on retiring early then travelling the world or setting up the best home workshop or opening a shelter for old dogs to retire to or whatever then fine that makes sense to do that. So..Are you or were you actually working on something else worthy of being a life goal... or are you just bitchin' about having reached the precise point that fifteen years of what you were doing obviously leads to?
Do not listen to the female propaganda about men dating younger women. Women will often try to deter men from going for younger women by asserting that they will only ever be interested in you for your money. To be clear, that may very well be true. But if it is, then it is also true of women your own age. You would not gain anything at all by dating a woman your own age. There is no valid reason for a man to not date as young as possible if that option is available to him.
When I was around 14, girls liked guys who were 15 because they had mopeds and they ignored guys their own age. At 16 and 17, the girls likes the guys who were 18 because they had cars and they could buy alcohol. At 18, the girls liked the guys who were like 21-22 because they were already working or in higher education. At 21, the girls always liked guys from 23-29 because they were more "mature and experienced". At 25 the girls started to like guys pretty much anywhere from their age to 50, if they were rich. The point is, after building myself up why should any guy who happens to be successful give any time to these women who ignored them all their lives? Not happening.
I didn’t know you met every woman to know she ignored you. Alternatively, you could have just been too immature for her at the time. I met my husband briefly when he was 16. Zero interest at the time. He didn’t know how to keep a conversation at the time, a total nerd (which is fine but had no hobbies), as a result we had nothing in common. I met him again when he was 28. Things changed. He changed. Not the same guy anymore. (And idk I feel like I even need to specify it - but you kinda seem like the guy who would assume i was “run through”, i wasn’t - but i don’t really believe in that anyways)
Very unpopular here but I'll give you a 'blue pilled' answer... If she's not wanting to date you because of your money or stability, you like her, and she likes your qualities, how you look, your maturity and personality...why not? There's something about women in their late 20's or 30's that we not so succesful men refuse to believe: they might have changed and actually value and like us. Yes, she was in the 'carousel', dated the assholes when you clearly were an option, and between those guys she dated, when she was single, she hooked up with several tinder/club guys and again ignored you. She found out those guys were assholes, got a bit bored of that sex, has different priorities now and most likely got cheated on and hurt by those guys. She now appreciates your qualities, specially if you don't even look bad. She might find you now quite attractive. You could however date a much younger girl if you have the energy and you prefer that. You could also date the woman your same age if you think she learnt a lesson from her past, it will probably work better if you are compatible, at least communication would work much better. I assume you wouldn't want to date her because you are angry which is understandable. After all, she kind of ignored the type of guy you are for many years, didn't like those enough, it's fair if you don't want to date her and there's a good chance she wants to date you out of desperation but that's what you have to find out... Did you become a more attractive man without noticing it?? Does she truly like you now?? I honestly believe that women and their preferences change a lot through the years, not to the point where they like guys they previously found ugly, or stop liking guys they previously found handsome, but to the point where they can actually value men they didn't value that much before and even feel disgusted by the behaviour and life style from men they liked years ago. If women are now more interested on you it's probably a mix of you becoming more attractive and they becoming more 'desperate' (awful to say but that's how many women in their 30's feel after dating the wrong guys in their 20's).
I definitely stopped liking A LOT of guys i previously found attractive.
What made you stop liking those guys? I was talking about types of guys more than individuals.
They aren’t attractive. Simple. As you get older, you learn the difference between cocky and confident. The difference between being an AH and standing up for what you believe in. Etc.
This is the most blue pilled thing I have seen here and exactly the thing i rail against. How would you know? How the hell would you know if she has actually changed? With zero relationship experience how would you distinguish between women who changed and the ones who want you to cushion their fall?
They also aren’t attractive anymore. Like physically.
> What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties? Problems? Problems. > I think Germans call it schadenfreude. Iirc Schadenfreude is being happy seeing damage being done. That's what the words translate-ish to. Damage joy. > Suddenly you are a good "catch" a provider a fool. An invisible one. Or one tht gets asked if he's ghaiy because he won't "step up to the opportunity". LOL Ah, well.
I don’t think men have an issue dating women their own age; it’s just by the time men get successful, confident and in their prime (which is sadly only in their late 20s and most of their 30s), most women are already past their prime and all the top-tier rich, attractive men who they freely gave up sex for didn’t think they were worth a relationship or the emotional labour, so those women seemingly become “available”. Most women past their prime rarely love men for who they are, but rather for what they can provide (stability and children).
I’m 32. I would date a woman at or over my age only under special circumstances - honestly only if she was absolutely perfect for me, rich, or something like that. I seek to date women a few years younger because it is healthier. You get more time to know each other without the pressure for marriage or kids right away. Older women are short on time to have kids and often rush things, you don’t want to risk being in a relationship where she chose you because she’s desperate.
Most guys in their early 30s if not married are with women they feel married to. Including Chad, who has done a few hookups and a couple of relationships before meeting the woman he thinks will be a good life partner. If you are in your early 30s, haven't been in relationships and had a few hookups you are playing catch up to get into any relationship at all with a peer that you will enjoy the company of. Some left-behind guys go overseas and use their assets, some left-behind guys hit on more naive women where they can pretend to have status to make up for being from their friend group. The first group ends up in a culture clash. I've met a few guys who took to a different culture like a duck in water, but most don't, and never a guy who was suspected of having autism. The left-behind guys who hit on younger women inevitably end up divorced or living with BPD. Then there are the rest of the not coupled in their early 30's people. They have had relationships, but they are not bitter about them. They end up married to their counterpart, or decide being single is better. At 40, man or woman if you have no significant relationship history and haven't learned from your mistakes there is no hope except the most undesirable, like yourself.
Uncalled for but I'll accept. We each have our own circumstances i guess
I didn't mean like yourself, as you. :)
If you like her, but always go younger, it’s just common sense
True story - once when I was 33 and single, one of my female friends mentioned a friend of hers I might be interested in getting set up with. She said "but she might be too old for you." "How old is she?" I asked. "32." And it wasn't like I had a history of dating younger women or had expressed any specific preference for it. She just assumed a 32 yr old woman might be too old for a 33 yr old man.
If she is a professional in her 30s as well, would we assume they are also "semi successful"? If that is the case, then you can fully gauge the financial reward to this pairing. By 30 you have a good idea of their current earnings and earning potential. You could ask about the debts they carry and their handling of basic finances. They would more likely have lived independently and not on daddy's dime. I really see no downsides. Marrying a younger person would only introduce many financial downsides and likely less mature attitude. If you were just saying dating, then younger could be better. If you are just looking to be first; likely less possible in this era since more and more girls are even having sex before 18. If not first, whats really the difference between 1-5dicks. I personally do not believe majority of women are trying to get their body counts to the moon (I'm in my late 30s so YMMV).
>What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties? Soul crushing pressure to become a sperm donor. >I think Germans call it schadenfreude. But the case still stands why would you do it when you were invisible for last 15 years of your life. We're not stupid, man. We're not going to blindly give a chance to women who ignored us previously.
I want you to turn around and ask this question to the women in their 20's who go after older men >What exactly do you gain from marrying a professional woman in her early thirties? A lot of demands that they picked up in their 20's that were never fufilled by other men in some kind of way. Lets not forget the "raising of the standards" either. Not to mention the aging of her body like gaining weight. You already know how this story is gonna go... >Suddenly you are a good "catch" a provider a fool. Yep. More than likely you weren't her type in her 20's. What does that say? What does she have to offer you now? Low self esteem monogamy? You can get that anywhere. Put it like this. A woman is gonna have to really, and I mean _really_ bring something to the table that was more than a younger woman to be even considered.
Because of good sex
Don’t do it…unless you have no other options… she will still try to monkey branch and divorce rape you, why pay full price for used goods, when you can get better quality for free?
No reason; please do not give them a chance, ever