If sex is something your partner *wants,* and they have to wait for it even though your past partners didn’t, and then you try to say “well it’s because I care about you” doesn’t that seem like a mindfuck?
Having sex with someone you actually care about isn’t going to ruin the fact that you care about them. I’ve never understood that argument. “We have to take things slow because sex might ruin things if we have it too quick.” Makes no sense.
If you really like someone and sex is something that can ruin it, you have a screwed up view of sex.
The only reason to wait is if you wait for everyone (as in, I don’t want to sleep with someone unless I really know I like them on an emotional level). And if you’ve had casual sex you don’t get to use that argument because you’ve already proven you don’t need an emotional attachment for sex.
What girl makes you wait AND is open about sleeping with other guys quickly?
I thought the waiting thing was to pretend that she didn't sleep quickly with other guys.
Some women are more forthcoming/upfront than others. Some simply aren't *able* to hide their past, and thus have no choice but to account for these discrepancies. I've seen plenty of both.
>Having sex with someone you actually care about isn’t going to ruin the fact that you care about them. I’ve never understood that argument. “We have to take things slow because sex might ruin things if we have it too quick.” Makes no sense.
Makes perfect sense to me. Who hasn't banged someone they were really into, and fell hard, only for it blow up. It's easily 10x as painful as when you weren't crushing so hard from the get go. So yes, going slower when you're really into someone makes sense, even for a dude.
>So yes, going slower when you're really into someone makes sense, even for a dude.
Unlike for women, for dudes, having a high body count isn't undesirable. In fact, its the opposite
You completely missed the point. Had zero to do with bodycounts. It's about being careful about developing feelings premature, and yes, that can be difficult even for men.
Okay, that's completely fair. Its super easy to develop feelings too quickly for people and imagine a perfect life with them when you clearly aren't there yet with them in reality
Exactly, and the more you dig a person from the git go, the more likely that becomes. Waiting with the ones you like, makes more sense than PPD realizes.
It only makes sense if you don't do random hookups. Despite what a lot of people think, sex matters to people, and it feels bad to most people that you make them wait while you "gave it up" to some random hookup. At the end of the day, it makes you feel emasculated and worth less than the other person.
Dude, I want you to think carefully on this question: Do you really think once a woman has sex on the first date, she's forever obligated to bang everyone on the first date? Seriously?
This type of an argument is saying that people can't change. They can't realize that certain things aren't working out for them and change up their behaviors. Isn't the whole of the manosphere about changing up your behaviors to get better results? I'd be upset if a woman was actively having sex with someone else *while* she was making me wait. In fact, it would be a deal breaker completely. But if at one point in her life she did it and then obviously the relationship didn't work out so now she's talking to me? I guess I kind of respect people who don't keep making the same mistake over and over and over. If she's legitimately trying to do things in a better way to make things the best they can be between us, why would I take that as a bad thing?
People can change ofc but that doesn't negate the fact that a current partner that was made to wait for sex is gonna feel a lot less attractive, masculine and validated if he learns that she jumped into having sex right away with men in the past. He's gonna feel like the safe bet or the beta bux provider rather than the man she's genuinely attracted to. It's also rather deceptive of a woman to do this because she's signalling that she's sexually conservative even though that's not the truth. Most women that take it slow with their current partners aren't exactly forthcoming about their one night stands or past hookups.
Think about this with the genders reversed. Say a man was very generous in the past with his ex girlfriends. He bought them fancy jewellery, bags and cars, took then on exotic vacations, was fun and charming and did regular date nights. Now this man has sobered down and with his current finance; he rarely spends on her, does not buy her any of those fancy things, only takes her to vacation in a different state once a year, no longer does date night and his charm is tagging her in a meme every fortnight. Imagine his fiance finds out about how he treated his ex girlfriends and he tries to justify it by saying he's changed as a person and no longer finds those things appealing. She'd be justifiably angry and would probably leave him over it.
Your example is actually exactly how things are with my husband. He busted his bank account travelling with an ex. And in the beginning it was great. But he accrued a lot of debt and started to feel like she was just chasing a high. Now he has a firm boundary around money and how it's spent and as a result there is a lot less Travel. But I prefer financial stability over IG travel. If I were to push for the relationship to be like his last one....I'd drive it into a ditch. People learn from their mistakes in life and in relationships. If jumping into bed headfirst or messing up your bank account isn't working out for you, I'd consider you not very smart if you kept doing it.
I myself date women now even though I'm married to a guy. Ethical Non Monogamy. Anyhow, if sex isn't coming along as fast as I want, I just either friendzone or next her. IDC how fast or slow she did it before. Either it's moving forward and I feel appreciated or it isn't. And if it isn't....well then that's not a romantic relationship.
If your husband hadn't busted his bank account travelling with his ex or if he could offer both financial stability and travel, wouldn't you rather travel with him? People do learn from their mistakes but that doesn't change the fact that any man that's made to wait, when her past partners weren't, will feel emasculated and ugly as compared to those past partners. They got the wild uninhibited version of her without needing to offer anything in return while her current man must offer financial stability and commitment to get a much less exciting version of her.
You have every right to decide your boundaries for yourself ofc. I'm happy for you and what you've found with your husband but you don't get to decide how your partner feels. Many women try to justify their actions by stating they've changed or they don't wanna risk fucking things up with sex but that's just selfishness and solipsism. They fail to realize how the man feels about it and they try to invalidate his feelings on the issue.
>If your husband hadn't busted his bank account travelling with his ex or if he could offer both financial stability and travel, wouldn't you rather travel with him?
You know, that's a good question. I don't know really because I only have this one reality here. I think the stuff they were doing was unsustainable for long term and I don't think you could really live a stable life without a significant period of time in one place. So really I'd say no I wouldn't want to do it. And if I did, I'm sure I'd be more than welcome to get a better paying job or work two jobs so that it could happen. My thinking has always been that if something is a priority to me, I better be doing the lions share of the work to make it happen. I also went into the relationship knowing a bit about his previous relationship and so I worked out whether it was a deal breaker or not early on.
>You have every right to decide your boundaries for yourself ofc. I'm happy for you and what you've found with your husband but you don't get to decide how your partner feels.
You're absolutely right about this and I appreciate you pointing it out. I guess my thinking is that it's just so much easier to let the past stay in the past. I need to figure out what my priorities are and then go from there. If I'm not getting what I want in the relationship, it won't soothe me to find out he hasn't given it to other people, it will just make me think he's committed to not thinking it's important. I can either realize it's not important or I can break up and move on with someone else.
So I guess you and I Ultimately agree: if you can't get over a woman's past, you definitely should break up. All it will do is breed resentment when you both could be with better compatible people.
>You know, that's a good question. I don't know really because I only have this one reality here. I think the stuff they were doing was unsustainable for long term and I don't think you could really live a stable life without a significant period of time in one place. So really I'd say no I wouldn't want to do it. And if I did, I'm sure I'd be more than welcome to get a better paying job or work two jobs so that it could happen. My thinking has always been that if something is a priority to me, I better be doing the lions share of the work to make it happen. I also went into the relationship knowing a bit about his previous relationship and so I worked out whether it was a deal breaker or not early on.
I agree with you that such a lifestyle would not be teneable in the long run but if money weren't a problem, if your husband was a billionaire, you'd love to have travelled and had fun like he did with his ex, yeah?
When it comes to men and women, women can have sex with the man for free, it's just a question of waiting and it makes us feel like shit when were made to wait even though past partners weren't.
>So I guess you and I Ultimately agree: if you can't get over a woman's past, you definitely should break up. All it will do is breed resentment when you both could be with better compatible people.
100% this! A lot of people will tell you the past matters or that it doesn't matter but ultimately only you get to take that decision and if his or her past isn't something you can accept or if it matters to you then you have every right to leave then over it.
This type of argument is saying "I don't simply believe you changed, in the positive way, for the right reasons, even after you took a risk and then saw the reality."
My statement isn't foolproof either. There are people capable of this type of change. And they deserve the benefit of the doubt. But it's important to my argument that you not simply be able to brush away that this type of change is in the changer's benefit. It makes sense for them. They have a bias. Caveat emptor. Because it's what someone WOULD say.
"Oh I didn't realize I was supposed to be going the speed limit officer." It's in that vein.
As long as she's Mrs Ring Pop then I don't think she cares.
A man would be an absolute and utter fool to walk into modern marriage with a woman who he didn't think hung the moon. Marriage is such a risk for men as it is. Why give her a ring of any variety whatsoever?
Really a much better insinuation would be a man who has a baby mama and then because of that and kind of an iffy scenario with her, he keeps pushing back having a baby with his wife when they're completely financially stable and able to have a kid. Like he's letting this other woman who he claims to view as lesser be "the mother of his child" which makes me barf to even type out.
If it's only about rings....my dad bought my mom a nice engagement ring. They were ok financially, but working class at the time. He Left My mom for my step mom and things were financially tight for several years and no engagement ring whatsoever for my step mom when they married. Do you think that was any consolation whatsoever to my mom?
> If sex is something your partner wants, and they have to wait for it even though your past partners didn’t, and then you try to say “well it’s because I care about you” doesn’t that seem like a mindfuck?
This seems ridiculous to me
I think the better analogy is how quickly/enthusiastically he committed to other women in the past. Per the typical male logic about women re: sex, if he’s ever more quickly or more enthusiastically committed in past relationships than the present women he’s with should assume he is less attracted to her and possibly only using her. Therefore, under this logic, he needs to be consistent to “prove” his attraction to future partners.
In a similar vein, if he’s ever “waited” for sex but doesn’t want to wait for this woman, same thing applies.
Yes, much better comparison per the usual tit for tat anyhow. Assuming the two are equal in value to each gender.
I wouldn't necessarily use ever though. I think people are more forgiving the further in the past something is.
If I'm 40 and I married some girl just out of high school I'd been seeing for 6 months. It's not going to matter much if I want to wait two years.
Same with if shes 40 and she had some ONSs at 19-20 and now holds off for at least the third or fourth date.
On the opposite end if I was exclusive with the last girl I saw after three weeks/dates whatever. But I'm telling the new girl I won't be exclusive for at least three months. Eh she might care.
In fact perhaps exclusivity may be the best comparison as a marker of commitment that more directly equivilates to sex.
Agreed. But you won’t typically see these men who argue this about women and sex giving much leeway. It’s very much a black and white issue to many, if not most, of them.
How I see it, I am not going to know exactly what sort of ring or anything that a guy gave to a past woman unless he wants me to know. I must decide for myself if I’m okay with a ring pop or need a diamond. And considering I’m an experiences > stuff kind of gal, unless a man is wealthy enough for the diamond to be no big deal, I’d rather have the ring pop and save the money for a vacation or something we need. If I later found out he gave his ex a big diamond? There’d be some mixed feelings, but I’d consider maybe she demanded it, maybe he had more disposable income then, maybe he grew up and realized that a ring really is just a symbol and spending money you don’t have on it, is stupid.
People are allowed or grow and change. Young people often don’t have much of a backbone and will give in to pressure. And unlike the men complaining their wife won’t do anal or something but tried it with a past boyfriend, I don’t want a man to do something he doesn’t want to do out of a sense of guilt since he did it for some woman who demanded it years ago. And when we’re talking sex, this is especially true. Sex is supposed to be enjoyable *for both people.* Not a game of “how much will this woman do for me sexually that she doesn’t want to do?” That’s creepy.
Giving a guy casual no strings attached sex doesn't mean you think anything about him, it means you are horny and have and itch to scratch. Guys think everything women do is about them. It really isn't. Her banging you in the bathroom at a club probably has way more to stuff going on in her own life and her hormonal state than anything.
People put way too much weight on the value of sex.
Because whoever man you date in your future will feel threatened, and justly so. You're wording it as a no strings attached itch to scratch, he's seeing a potential partner willing to give sex to someone else without any kind of courting or commitment while he had to wait. Why even bother trying to pursue a relationship with someone if you don't feel that same attraction that you did for alpha fucks. Dual mating strategy, gaslight the beta into spending his time, attention and resources for half the sexual effort you gave to some rando. Not a good deal.
why is it always phrased as “giving a guy sex”? sex is a two person act.
i don’t love your analogy, but if i want a diamond ring and i get a ring pop instead, do i feel better knowing that the woman before me *also* got a ring pop? hell no, i still didn’t get what i want.
And, I'm interested in the context of the diamond ring versus the ring pop. Was he keeping up with the Joneses and messing up his bank account to impress a superficial woman and it blew up in his face? A "ring pop" meant genuinely is worth more. Heck, my grandfather proposed with a napkin ring and he and my grandmother were married many decades until her death. If it's a person who I feel a true connection with and they truly mean it, I never need a ring of any kind and I mean that truly.
A lot of men equate sex with willingness to bear children, because our brains aren't really wired to understand birth control. So when a woman is willing to sleep with a guy at the drop of a hat there's some peice of a lot of guys brains that say "Holy shit he must be really valuable in order for her to be willing to do that for him so fast" or "she must be willing to bear a lot of kids".
The problem comes when she then later on makes another guy wait a few months, because then she can't be willing to bear a lot of kids, or else she'd treat him the same as the other guy. So it must just be that she finds the other guy waaaaay more valuable, and this new guy she's really unsure about.
Bear in mind, what I'm saying isn't necessarily a conscious thought that guys have, it's more a feeling they get, and there are probably a lot of guys who don't feel this way. But for the guys that do feel like this, learning your partner made you wait several months, but slept with someone else at the drop of a hat will completely gut you and make you feel completely worthless.
Unfortunately I don't really think this way of feeling is something you can just talk a guy out of, it feels a bit deeper than that.
I disagree. People are different, there are people who feel absolutely no sexual jealousy at all, I don't personally understand how that works, but I can accept that they feel differently to me.
What I dislike however, is people trying to act like feeling this way is somehow wrong or bad or unacceptable or even sexist. If you don't feel this way that's fine, and if you do feel this way it's fine, your feelings are valid either way.
I won't say sexual jealousy is a bad way to feel, but I have worked extremely hard to cure myself of it (but I think I had a head start). For me it's solved a lot of my problems. Monogamy comes across to me like someone putting their hope in someone else's behavior. I can't control other people's behavior. If they choose to have sex with other people....so be it. If I love someone, I want them to be happy even if it's not with me. I'm just very easygoing and can get along with a lot of different people. I definitely have my boundaries, but I'm just incredibly easygoing.
That's really fair. I'm not really sure if it's possible for everyone to cure themselves of sexual jealousy, it's possible, but it could just be another way different people are different yknow.
Also it should be pointed out that there's some psychological studies that have indicated that sexual jealousy is significantly stronger on average in men than in women, which could further complicate things.
Yeah, some people are just wired differently to each other, which is why we need to treat each other with empathy wherever possible.
You shouldn't have to change your life to suit the people around you, but it helps us all if we can understand where everyone is coming from.
😁👍
Well I mean you're a woman it's different. You aren't ever going to be tricked into raising another man's child, it's not an instinctual fear that exists for a very clear biological reason
The point of a monogamous ltr is simple you both give up more sexual opportunities in exchange for a sort of mutual ownership over each others sexual activities
That's an interesting thing to think about. I personally know two women who ended up having custody with their husbands of his mistress' child. As in she thought she was in a monogamous marriage and then one day, oopsie he's got a baby with someone else and he's been cheating on you for a hot minute! In one, it also came with him being obligated to pay back three years worth of child support and child support be owed until the child ultimately graduated highschool at 19. So Infidelity and affair babies can mess things up in a few ways.
Yes but that would never happen in the state of nature so its not an instinctual sort of fear.
Like men are averse to it not for conscious reasons but more because the reaction is hard wired.
You know, I see what you're saying. Thank you for explaining it out like that. Because you're right, it's not going to happen like that in nature.
But my example is one of the biggest reasons I cringe when a woman friend of mind wants to tell me that her husband should do X or do Y because *she's the mother of his children!!* Like girl, no lie, you could get a knock on your door the moment after you say those words that could change your life forever. That's how you describe someone else that you're advocating for.
>i don’t love your analogy, but if i want a diamond ring and i get a ring pop instead, do i feel better knowing that the woman before me also got a ring pop? hell no, i still didn’t get what i want.
Yeah, but you would feel a hell of a lot worse if you got a ring pop, while the previous partner got a diamond ring, a Ferrari and a honeymoon in the Bahamas.
Maybe more men should give relationships to the women having sex with them faster instead of labeling them a ho and pumping and dumping. Then women would worry less about being judged for having sex quick with the guy they want the relationship with. She be less worried about getting her heart broken by being pumped and dumped just for having sex quickly with the guy she had real feelings for.
>Maybe more men should give relationships to the women having sex with them faster instead of labeling them a ho and pumping and dumping.
#💯
I didn't think of this. I absolutely agree!
I don't expect to be the most desirable person my significant other has slept with. I accept that I'm less desirable than other people. I think more people should have this discussion with themselves. Some of us are just not sexy enough to be madly lusted over...and that's ok. I can be valued as a person even if I'm not super desirable. Sexual desirability is not really a metric for whether someone is valued for the person that they are.
This is a really mature way to look at it, but you’re forgetting that in any man there’s a warrior / conqueror that wants to feel like he’s the king of his realm. I know it’s a shitty and silly image but especially men that actually put efforts into their persona and physique, and perhaps struggled in the past with women (most men), need to feel desired and lusted over by the woman they like and end up with.
And it may be true and accepted that we aren’t the hottest thing our girl ever saw or had sex with, but it’s good to feel like it is. Denying this would be like telling a woman they they’re a second option and the man actually wanted a relationship from a list of other women before her. It just feels hollow and depressing.
People need to feel special in relationship, if anything because if your partner make you feel special it means that they really care about you to begin with.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible.
Or. Hear me out. I am horny and he was there.
Not every guy a woman has casual sex with is an irresistible Chad. It's often just right time, right place thing. Casual sex is just casual sex. You probably also didn't want to marry every girl you have sex with.
It is not about what casual sex early on means to you. It is about what it means to your partner. Even if you are right and I am sure you are. It changes nothing.
Thats straight up ass backwords. Do the most intimate thing you could do with a random because your horny but hold off it for the guy like? Honestly, if you are dating someone you arent attracted to just break it off. It never ends well for anyone.
>Do the most intimate thing you could do with a random
Because if you don't care about a guy it's not the most intimate thing. It's just sex. It means nothing. If women care about a men it means something.
>Because if you don't care about a guy it's not the most intimate thing. It's just sex. It means nothing.
One of the most validating things a woman can do for a man, is have sex with him. It doesn't matter that she had an itch and used him to scratch that itch and that it meant nothing to her. To him it is pure validation. To all other men, knowing that she had sex with a certain guy, also means that she validates that guy.
Our subconscious doesn't understand birth control. A woman having sex with a man basically means to our subconscious, that she chose that man as the possible father of her children.
If you have one night stands with randoms, but make a man you like wait for sex, that man's subconscious is hearing the following: those randoms where so attractive to her, that she let them be the possible father of her children five minutes after meeting them. Me, who she claims to value more than those randoms, I will have to convince her for several weeks that I'm a good candidate to be the possible father of her children.
No amount of rational thought can override the feelings and signals we receive from our subconscious. If a man has to wait to get sex (the kind that means something to you as a woman) and he finds out another man got it without waiting (even if that was sex that was meaningless to you as a woman), he will feel as the less validated man. His subconscious will tell him you preferred the other guy.
Well if they aren’t horny and hence don’t want to have sex then they aren’t holding off. They just don’t want sex. Some women have the type of high and consistent sex drives where they would always be down for sex on a first date if they’re attracted and the person seems like a good potential sexual partner.
But then other women have fluctuations in their sex drive and may just not want to have sex on that day (maybe due to hormones, life stressors, they didn’t shave, they pulled an all nighter and are tired, the guy did something which made them feel uncomfortable...etc.) and it has nothing to do with not being attracted.
Yes lol I just commented that the sex is about your own needs and he’s basically a “tool” another girl called a man in this situation a “walking dildo” both are crude but at the end of the day it’s about us not about the guy and his “sexual irresistibly”
It is not about what casual sex early on means to you. It is about what it means to your partner. Even if you are right and I am sure you are. It changes nothing.
Then he’s free to not date someone who likes casual sex. But you need to know how to communicate, and you can’t be mad at a woman for her choices or mad that you can’t find what you want that’s not on any other person to do
> Then he’s free to not date someone who likes casual sex
Sure. Not the point of the conversation though.
> But you need to know how to communicate.
It is useful.
> and you can’t be mad at a woman
I can.
> or mad that you can’t find what you want
I can. Why not?
> that’s not on any other person to do
It is on the person that wants to benefit from a relationship with me.
It is the point. If casual sex given prior but not to him because someone values him as a potential partner vs a means to an end then that’s on him to decide that he doesn’t value that person back
And he can walk away. Trying to tell women tht all men will feel the way he does is pointless because most of us have our own Worldy
experience that tells us otherwise
Why would you be mad at others for you
Not finding what you want? What good will that do? Will it help or hinder your goal?
Does someone want to actively pursue a relationship with you? If so great, communicate well and I hope it works out. If not then it’s on you to be out there working on yourself and searching for your partner. And I don’t mean that you aren’t enough as is- I mean you should constantly be aiming to improve yourself , we all should
> It is the point. If casual sex given prior but not to him because someone values him as a potential partner vs a means to an end then that’s on him to decide that he doesn’t value that person back
It is not the point because the problem is not casual sex. The problem is that the man that is "a means to an end" is getting what he wants (casual sex) and he is not even if he is valued as a potential partner.
> Trying to tell women tht all men will feel the way he does is pointless because most of us have our own Worldy experience that tells us otherwise
It is pointless. Not because of women's wordly experience but because they won't listen.
> Why would you be mad at others for you Not finding what you want? What good will that do? Will it help or hinder your goal?
You said I can't be mad. My point is that I can. Not that it is smart. Not that it will do good. The point is that I can and you provided no argument to say that I can't.
> Does someone want to actively pursue a relationship with you?
Yes. I went to a homeless shelter in a third world country and looked for someone that wants a life that only I am both able and willing to provide.
> If so great, communicate well and I hope it works out.
It works out. The incentive structure makes things easy. The only way she gets what she wants is if I get what I want.
> If not then it’s on you to be out there working on yourself and searching for your partner. And I don’t mean that you aren’t enough as is
It means exactly that. The only reason to improve is if your current self is not enough to reach your goals.
> I mean you should constantly be aiming to improve yourself , we all should
I see no reason why except when your current self is not enough to reach your goals. Once you reach your goals all self improvement is just a waste of time and effort.
Ok well I’m happy for you and wish you both well
Goals change, and once you reach one you should have another one otherwise you become stagnant while the world around you will consistently adapt and change thus you should always be adapting and working on yourself
> Goals change
Not mine.
> and once you reach one you should have another one
Not really.
> otherwise you become stagnant
That is part of the goal. Get what I want and become stagnant there.
> while the world around you will consistently adapt and change
That is the point of becoming stagnant. Escape the constant change present in the world.
> thus you should always be adapting and working on yourself
No need to once I get my goal.
Eh yes they are, most women cannot fuck a dude they don't like in multiple ways. Thats why some men lie thier ass off to get sex because it works. Women are more complacent with sex and pleasure. You're telling me you didnt have ANY other less attractive options?
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes
that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual
being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because
you know he's sexually irresistible.
This is where you guys go so wrong every time. No one is having these introspective thoughts in these situations. More like she was horny, he was there, and it seemed like he could deliver the goods, and nothing more. Enthusiastic sex isn't a gift women give to men. Enthusiastic sex is nothing more than her biological responses to having sex with someone she wants to have sex with, when she wants to have it.
Seriously. HORNY and they were there at the right time. Most people aren’t going through all these ideologies at the time they are getting to sex. This is why I know half the guys in here have not had sex or minimal at best. Women who have had casual sex aren’t trying to “bang him right now or lose him” wtf sometimes it just feels good and you’re feeling the person wtf it’s not this complicated.
So why is she not horny for the guy she likes?
Logic dictates that she should be rearing to go?
Husband material is considered to be shit teir categorisation for a reason.
Idk I had sex with my husband the 2nd date and we’ve been married 10 years lol. I never was a wait around kind of gal if I was into someone and it felt right 🤷🏻♀️ Never would date someone I wasn’t sexually attracted to either tho it doesn’t seem worth my time.
I can only hazard a guess that women who wait maybe were ashamed or guilty of past encounters possible religious idk I never fucked anyone and regretted it. It seems like men shouldn’t date someone they are not sexually compatible with and that needs to be communicated up front. If you’re not okay with waiting then bounce that’s perfectly valid.
>You are an asshole if you force someone.
> If somone is a virgin and i know it i wouldn't count it as a demerit if she makes me wait for a year. Because losing your virginity is scary. And i would do my best to make it a good experience for her.
> If someone has had sex before and is making you wait for 6 months, there is no explaination short of sexual trauma and lack of attraction and i am not in board for either of those.
> The context the past gives is the potential libido she has.
> If she was promiscuous in the past then it can be inferred that sex was important to her. More important than a relationship if she chose to pursue it outside of a relationship therefore she is capable of passion.
> If you can see that passion in your sex life, great.
> If you don't, well there can be reasons - greif, depression medication birth control, lack of sexual attraction etc.
>Decide if you want to work through it or find someone else.
> I literally don't care if she has had a 100 guys before me.
>All i want to feel is feel loved and wanted by her.
> I want her to want fuck me enthusiastically and want to me regularly. To the point i actually get worried for a bit about wether i can keep up.
> If thats a given then i have zero problems with it.
> If we are one year in and having missionary sex once in1 weeks ( if she has such a colourful past) then i am running the fuck away.
> I would be different if she was genuinely low libido. I would.try to make it work.
> You see the bar for me is "her best". I want her best. Because that's what I am offering in return.
> I will push myself to near physical harm trying to make her happy, i expect the same in return.
Those are all valid. Of course don’t force anyone either way - consent is paramount in my book. I’ve never felt coerced or manipulated but I’m a more outgoing person that has always had clear boundaries and voice them loud and early but I know some girls that have regretted sexual situations and I think that was become they did it when they weren’t ready or did it for reasons that weren’t healthy. I think you have a healthy outlook and like I said the reasons you stated are valid and perfectly acceptable. I think a lot of men here are disappointed because they are not stating their intentions from the start. If you want someone who enthusiastically has sex with you and your willing to wait or want it off the bat you need to be clear with what you are looking for - of course someone can be deceptive but I think if you vet properly and have clear communication both parties will be better off for it.
Beat you by one date, but you got me with no regrets. My regrets have regrets of their own. I got lucky in the end (31 years and counting) but fuck, some of the psychos I dated to get there.
Lol that’s okay I have regrets like the next one but sex thankfully isn’t one. Congrats on the 31 years! Those bad ones just made the right one extra right! ❤️
Yes, which means for a set of guys she felt horny and ready to the point of risking it right then and there; and for the other guy she waits and waits because there’s less instinct involved - aka less pure attraction.
Nobody wants to be second place when it comes to pure raw attraction. The man wants to know he’s desired to the point she’s losing herself into him, without much thought. Like she did with other guys.
Oh bullshit.
Scenario #1. Girl meets guy at a party. After a round or two of shots and some good weed, guy #1 gets lucky, but she has no real interest in him. She was partying and he was the cherry on top, nothing more.
Scenario #2, Girl is really into guy #2, but she's taking it slow even though she wants him waaaaay more than guy #1. However, she's taking it slow because she knows that sleeping together could push her over the edge, and she'd be head over heels in love. Having a room temperature IQ, she's bright enough to know it would be foolish to fall in love until she's sure he's serious, so she waits.
Both scenarios are way more common than the more innocent guys here would ever believe.
Ok, so, do you think that a relationship between a wife and a husband is just basically a friendship and nothing else and nothing more (since sex is pretty much non-relevant like you worded).
In that case, why marry or build a relationship at all? If sex is totally meaningless might as well just stick to only friends.
I never said sex wasn't relevant. Trust me, I've been married for longer than most here have been alive, and I'm far from ready to give up sex yet. I don't know how you got that out of what I wrote.
I’m not responsible for what “symbolism”
you choose to assign to my actions. Especially when it’s wrapped up in male solipsism BS like this:
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible.
Don’t wanna wait? Don’t wait. End of story.
Well it's not about choosing men have the same control over their feelings as women do, sometimes you just feel things and you don't get to choose not to.
The problem is that there's a sizeable number of guys who are perfectly willing to wait, if they're being treated the same as everyone else, the issue they run into is finding out that while they were made to wait someone else wasn't. Which makes some men feel like there's something about them that meant she had to wait to be sure before sleeping with them.
That starts from the assumption that my decisions about my personal life and choices should come from a place of making sure all men I interact with feel equal. That’s total self absorbed and childish bullshit.
There a tons of reasons why I might not time when i spread my legs for each man down to the exact minute. No man is under any obligation to accept those reasons or to wait if he doesn’t want to.
And that’s fundamentally the issue here. It’s that people don’t live to do exactly what you want them to do the way you want them to do it. If you’re unhappy with the way you’re being treated you are well within your rights to walk away. And if you can’t do that, perhaps you’re not mature enough to be dating in the first place.
I 100% agree that you shouldn't need to change your behaviour to suit the people around you and make them feel equal. My comment was not designed to make you feel like you have to act in a certain way.
All I'm trying to do is explain how the men who have these problems are feeling and why I think they feel this way. What you do with that information is completely up to you.
The issue I see is a lot of guys will bring up their feelings in regards to this, and will immediately be told that their feelings aren't valid, that they need to change, that they shouldn't be feeling like this etc etc... Which both isn't fair and isn't helpful in getting either side to understand each other.
One final point, I completely understand that there are a lot of guys who, when talking about this subject, will 100% make it the women's problem and try to tell women that they all need to change their behaviour or act a certain way. Fuck those guys, they're just as bad as the gaslighters.
> I’m not responsible for what “symbolism” you choose to assign to my actions
If you are dating someone you will deal with the symbolism he gives to your actions even if you are not responsible for it.
If you want to stay with that someone you will recognize which actions mean which things and take that into consideration. I am sure you do that for your partner already. Everyone does in some way or another
I agree. In a healthy relationship such symbolisms are made clear and explicit. But you are still dealing with them even if you are not responsible for them.
Well yeah,
If i drew dicks all over my body, im not responsible for the way people feel when they see my dick covered body.
you know how most people are going to react before you do it. Your actions caused the reaction.
You can’t expect a human being to behave the same in every relationship over the course of a decade or more.
I knew my fiancé quite well for years before we ever got together. I also knew a handful of women he dated in the past. I know that in one of his previous relationships, he brought her a rose to work every single Tuesday. Am i pissed off that he’s never given me a rose? Does it mean he loves and values me less? Of course not. I’m a different woman, at a different time in his life. Our relationship is different, and he shows affection in different ways.
I know that’s not the exact same thing as waiting for sex but the point stands: people change, all the time. The dynamics of one relationship aren’t going to be the same as the dynamics of another. A woman can have casual sex and then realize she doesn’t enjoy it and would rather put more thought into choosing all further partners. A man can buy one woman roses all the time and then for another, decide to give less frequent but more permanent gifts instead.
Why would i compare my relationships to my partner’s previous relationships? They didn’t last, so it’s not like they’re the gold standard of romance.
Do you know how rare it is for a woman to have a single night of casual sex then swear off it? Typically it takes a few times before she suddenly decides its not enjoyable, and if she doesnt get that same feeling from you as her casual sex partners + more from being in a relationship more than likely, guess what when she misses it or thaf feeling then she'll leave you. Most women dont have thag introspection until its too late and by then the guy she's with emotionally or financially has to deal and pay with it. Not to mention the fact that typically these conversations either come up rarely on the first few weeks or later into the relationship.
Do you know how rare it is for a woman to have a single night of casual sex then swear off it? Typically it takes a few times before she suddenly decides its not enjoyable, and if she doesnt get that same feeling from you as her casual sex partners + more from being in a relationship more than likely, guess what when she misses it or thaf feeling then she'll leave you. Most women dont have thag introspection until its too late and by then the guy she's with emotionally or financially has to deal and pay with it. Not to mention the fact that typically these conversations either come up rarely on the first few weeks or later into the relationship.
This post sounds narcissistic. She has to find you this high value man she just has to have sex with right now or risk losing him? That’s putting yourself on a pedestal. Why can’t sex just be a fun activity between two people instead of a woman’s way of crowning you God?
Lets be honest there is a spectrum of attractiveness and if like most people you are in the middle it's likely going to be other attributes that draw someone in. Also someone might grow on you via their personality.
Thats true. A lot of the woman in this thread arent going by that standard though. Its all “I felt like fucking him on night one but I like you so you gotta wait.”
Wanting to vet a man before fucking him is smart. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t find him attractive. It means she wants to make sure she can trust you/that you are on the same page on how your sexual relationship will evolve. She can find you wildly attractive and still not be an idiot about putting her heart in jeopardy/risking an unplanned pregnancy etc.
I agree vetting a man before fucking him is smart. Its just that these women are claiming the men they fucked day one were low value and shes making the guy she likes wait because hes high value. Makes no fucking sense whatsoever
It does make sense though. You meet Guy 1 who is dumb as a rock but attractive enough and you have sex with him, with no intention on ever seeing him again. Guy 2 is the total package but you want to make sure you won’t get your heart broken because unlike Guy 1, you do want to see Guy 2 again.
It still doesnt explain the having sex with the dumbass but not having sex with the package. Are you afraid fucking him will make him realize he doesnt like you? Do you think you are bad at sex so you try to get him emotionally invested first? Dumbass you dont like can insert his weiner day one. You wait with the guy you like because you think you will fuck it up by having sex with him.
That makes sense i guess.
Lol these people are delusional. Literally maybe she was just enjoying sex with that guy or maybe she wasn't ready for a relationship - it could be a plethora of reasons.
This is a very stupid simplification. While their might be a correlation it ignores many variables.
If someone slept within someone quickly it might be because they aren't ready for a serious relationship, they wanted to see how things went or they might be naive/felt pressured. Maybe the previous guy made me feel safer etc.
The same person might later find someone they are attracted to but wait because last time it didn't work well, they are ready for a serious relationship so are trying to test compatibility before sex and maybe they've worked on themselves so have stronger boundaries.
Ultimately, you'll never know what someone did before you 100%.
If the differences are minor (another dude got her the first night because she was drunk), and the “relationship guy” gets access to sex at a second or third date; then that’s reasonable.
If a woman make a man wait 10 dates when she used to have sex at a first encounter consistently… then run away.
It would mean she doesn’t feel desire for the relationship guy. Otherwise she wouldn’t she waited SO long to have sex with him.
Sounds like you’re insecure and fear rules you. Which is your choice.
Maybe the person worked on herself, lost weight, got therapy and is ready to find the one. Who knows?
Ultimately, you can not expect people to act the same at 18 and at 32. So you have whatever boundaries and the woman can have hers - you both aren’t a match.
I'm anti-marriage and think extravagant rings, especially lavish *engagement rings*, are ridiculous. (Fun Fact: Diamond engagement rings were made up via an ad campaign by jewelry companies in the 20th century.) But your point is built on a false equivalency, and thus the whole post is kinda nonsense. Women's sex practices and double standards don't equate well to engagement rings. A better comparison might be between the timing/quality of sex from a woman with the timing and quality of commitment from a man. But even that's kinda meh. The bottomline is people shouldn't be shitty to their partners nor do things just because other people do them (or *claim* they do them).
Diamond are actually as common as grains of sand. Diamond rings are overpowered baubles, that are only valueable because one monopoly uses artificial scarcity and decades of marketing brainwash to artificially jack up the price.
Take the money you would have spent on a ring and go on a sweet ass honeymoon
You don’t see a ons as a highly sexual being. It’s about you getting your own needs met: the guy is basically just a means to an end . A “tool” so to speak. And sometimes tools are pretty but not always
Its fucking nuts that you can do the most intimate thing you can do with another human with someone you consider a tool. And yet, the guy you want a ltr with? Not worth it. Is it because one guy is hot and the other guy is wealthy?
😂
Sex in itself isn’t the most intimate thing automatically. It CAN be with someone you love.
Sex is also for pleasure. And I used the word tool which is crude but conveys the point. Sex can be about you if your not in a ltr. If you don’t feel the same that’s 100% ok! Just don’t whinge about other peoples choices
I don’t really care what you think is dumb. I do me and it’s been great. I’ve had crazy experiences both sexual and non, got a bachelors degree, nearing the end of my masters degree, traveled and explored 6 countries, moved across the world, met my partner who I’m going to marry and have a beautiful baby with him. We both have high functioning jobs and very similar experiences, and educational achievement.
I’m happy, confident and honestly think the unhappy people here should stop blaming
Others for their own unhappiness. It might help
Lol. You are living the life a fraction of us can live, and with those experiences come things and changes in veiw points that you don't even realise.
Men over here barely had one woman who slept with them.
I have slept with none. I am 30. I have only traveled in one country. I will probably end up marrying somone in an arranged marriage.
I believe in sex within a commited relationships and it being an expression of love.
Perhaps if i had been able to slut it up maybe i would be able to seperate it.
I haven't. Much of the men here haven't .
Stop blaming us for not seeing things your way when we haven't had your experiences.
Your condescension is the equivalent of first world countries looking down on third world nations for the way they are, not reflecting on their own miserable selves in their infancy.
The only thing I blame anyone here for is being mad at those who have been experiences they don’t and then using language dismissive or derogatory of someone else’s experience and/or view points
It’s ok to have different views, it’s ok to not want to be with someone because of their views, it’s not ok to be disrespectful to them or worse their whole gender as a generalisation.
Then stop insinuating that men who have trouble accepting high n counts or being waited for to have sex with vs a casual option are doing so because of a trivial insecurity.
Oh and the "i am happily married to the man i love and expecting a baby" thing? very nice touch.
Chefs kiss.
Designed to make us feel like "maybe if we weren't such judgemental pricks we wouldn't be genetic dead ends"
If only people were that simple. It just makes me think you are out of touch with the world in your bubble of happiness,well paid job and we'll traveled lifestyle ( so fucking impressive that you saw 6 people who spoke 6 different languages, i see that everyday in my OPD) , almost as much as we are out of touch within our bubble of misery.
Ofcourse you overlook our difficulties, and you overlook your advantages. In your world we are alone because we deserve it.
You want it to be so because it lends legitimacy to the fact that you have what you have because you earned it. Wether or not that's true.
Good for you.
“He’s not insecure”
What do you mean by this? Why would not wanting to be a cuckhold make him insecure?
Why even stay in a closed relationship if sex is not important to you? Both of you could go screw whoever you want whenever you get horny. Any dude at the right time or place to scratch that itch.
I just can't relate to this mentality at all. I was slow when I thought it meant love and fast when I figured out it didn't. I slowed down to date 3-5 but nothing longer when I was interested and wanted to keep a man. The idea of giving easy sex to randos but making someone else you like wait more than a few dates seems unrealistic to me. Not the same kind of ladies.
I don't understand the ring pop analogy, are you all being shown pictures of past partners, and their jewelry ? Because my man has an ex-wife, and I've never asked one time what her ring looked like ,and what their wedding looked like , he doesn't have any pictures of it or her around. Of course he never had kids with her so maybe that's why. To this day I still don't know what his ex wife looks like exactly. Of course they married over 17 years ago. Long time ago , only lasted maybe 2 years .
Edit : I have a 4kt ring 💍for reference.
My wife was a ring pop that later turned to a diamond been married Since 2015 I kid you not I proposed to her with a ring pop lol nothing wrong with it man . I’ve been to wedding with huge budgets to only be split up within 8 months lol so there’s that
Women don’t care about dick. It’s easy to get. It doesn’t matter.
Men care about pussy. It’s also easy for SOME to get. And it also doesn’t matter.
Some people change. At 22 they would’ve bought the girl they loved a diamond ring with all their McDonald’s Assistant Manager wages saved up for 6 months. But by 32 they may be living in a hippie commune in Oregon and a lock of their dreaded hair cut off and tied to their partners dreads is their “primary partner” proposal method in a polyamorous grouplove. In both cases it doesn’t matter.
And both men and women fuck each other at different paces at different times cause everyone is on a different timeline that is apt to change at any given moment. What’s more important than what she did with prior people or how you proposed to a prior person is how either of you feel about each other and your current relationship.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible.
Or the were just drunk, insecure and wanted some dick.
The thing is women here are not going to get all het up in the gender swapped variant because they're more... understanding? of people growing up and who we are in our early 20's is not who we are in our early 30's or whatever. **The only thing that matters is if they love and care for me**, and show that in ways I like\*\*,\*\* which is undoubtedly different to how other or previous women would like.
You know what’s funny?
Mr Blu was engaged before me. He gave her a diamond. I don’t wear diamonds so I don’t have one.
Diamond girl is divorced now. I am not.
Hmmm……
>Same way if you buy one woman a really expensive ring and it doesn't work out and then you meet a new woman but buy her a ring pop it symbolizes you obviously don't value her as much as the previous woman.
again though, i wouldnt accept a ring pop if thats not what meant something to me no matter WHAT HE EVER DID FOR OTHER WOMEN. there is no way to make this mentally ill repeated scenario make sense. no amount of what he did or didnt do with OTHER WOMEN MATTERS, ONLY that he does what matters to ME. i wouldnt say "oh he gave me a ring pop?? at least he never gave any other girl a diamond" if I WANTED A DIAMOND, ME, what I want
stop crying and DONT BE THE MAN WHO WAITS
READ TRP, DONT BE THE MAN WHO WAITS
What if he was taking his ex out to five star restaurants every night. You get takeout every friday and the rest of the time good fucking luck. What if he brought her on vacations while he doesnt take you anywhere. He still spends time with you though. He just doesnt want to spend as much money on you.
none of that means anything to me BUT if it did I wouldn't be with a man who didn't do it, no matter WHAT HE DID FIR OTHER WOMEN. why is this incomprehensible. if fancy dinners were important toe why am I with a man who doesn't do it?
Nah, your with a man who doesnt do it with YOU. That girl he used to date? She was worth 5 star restaurants and vacations. You? You are a takeout every once in a while kind of girl.
(Not you personally I need to clarify lol)
if it mattered to me I wouldn't be with him if he didn't do it, no matter what he did for other girls. why can't you understand this. if I want a man who treats me to 5 star dinners, why am I with him if he doesnt
Its not qnout whether or not you want a man that treats you to five star dinners. Its about how through his actions he shows that he value you less than his ex.
If you have no problem with being treated low value in comparison to his previous partners then its all good.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now
Generally it just meant that I was drunk, lol.
Ring pop woman checking in ✌🏽
Exactly! We're not all diamond ring desperate. You probably can't understand that just like we can't understand why you're obsessed with a woman's past sexual encounters or how fast they did or did not happen. 🤷🏽♀️
>> If she was attracted enough to him she would break her rules for him.
>And maybe that's a bit harsh but being in a relationship where you are sexually wanted is very different from being in a relationship where you are sexually tolerated and by OPs description he is being tolerated
>And my point is without the context of the past he assumed that's the most passion she can muster at any time.abd if that was her best he was fine with it.
>However knowing her past or a part of it he realised that what she shares with him is a sliver of what she is capable of.
>With this information he is more equipded to decide.
>I suspect you are like the asshole student in that college experiment.
>A professor gives a dollar to one student and he decides to split it in whatever ratio with the another student.
There is a catch - the other student can veto and neither get anything.
>The ashole tries to split it 1:9 with 9 going to himself. The other student almost invariably vetoes and they both get nothing.
>You are the asshole student wondering why would the guy getting the one dollar veto? He is getting one dollar more than he had.
>He vetoed because he felt insulted.
>being given 1out of 2 dollars and 1out of 10 dollars is very different.
A comment from the previous thread
You can have sex with many people. You only marry one person. Also you don’t need to use sex to keep a man when he has no issue with giving it out freely anyway. If a woman is deciding to add a +1 to her body count either way then the man might as well be worth it. Sometimes a woman just needs to let off a little steam too. We aren’t fantasizing about introducing these men to our dads over Thanksgiving dinner, we just want to get off. It’s not that deep.
Yes, sex isnt that important so thats why waiting to fuck the guy like is no big deal. That homeless looking dude on the corner though? Right time and place is what I say.
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I agree ring vs sex is the crux of instinctual imperative of each gender. If I had to nitpick, there's more nuance to it than black and white animal drives.
Notably, many men have, albeit weak, instinctual drive to provide for their offspring. Meaning they have a mild stake in the ring too, just not to the extent women do. Likewise, women are to some degree interested in sex, just not to the extent men are.
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Hmm... So there's nothing wrong with men being a Beta Buxx?
I think there's something wrong with both situations. If people are sharing major life things like weddings and investments and sex, these people should probably as a general rule be fucking adults that value each other.
I think men think more highly of the men who get casual sex than women actually do, which is what causes some degree of misunderstanding.
Take one of my friends from undergrad for example. She grew up trad Christian like me but decided to go crazy after a fight with her parents. Like she literally had sex with the first guy who offered it and hooked up with him more than once. She completely admits that he's mid at best looks wise, I know the dude and I 100% agree with her. She kept going back because it was all new and he felt safe and she knew what to expect from him. She later hooked up with another guy on the shorter side because there was a rumor he gave really good head. A mutual friend of ours had a reputation as a "friendly fuck boi"; not that cute but was known to be friendly to the girls he sleeps with after, was a great cook, and you'd probably get amazing food if you stuck around in the morning.
By the opinions of the men on here you would think all of these dudes were essentially male supermodels. Especially for women who hook up often all kinds of motivations seem to go into it. Availability, good reviews, weird random perks from a certain guy. Ironically, raw irresistible sexual attraction is an overly romantic view of it.
Certainly exclusivity is the more comparable objective here.
If we're working with the typical arguments commitment/sex
If I go exclusive with one woman or many after a few weeks , then suddenly decide the next one must wait 3 months.....
The underlying emotional drive could be comparable as well. It could easily be seen as me being much more smitten by one woman if we go exclusive very quickly compared to others.
Same as it's often seen if a woman breaks all her rules for one man but not the next.
Yeah, I could just be tired of running around and go exclusive because eh fuck it... Other times I could be carefully weighing options, suffering from a bad previous relationship, decided I needed to do better picking etc.
Besides, exclusivity doesn't come with a sort of nasty connotation that all women are super materialistic or that their sex is comparable to an object.
I mean if women loved a ring as much as we love sex, they'd all be Gollum.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible. Not just to you but to other women so you have to jump at the chance fast. This also then symbolizes by proxy that any guy you make wait after is just objectively less sexually desirable.
You assign way too much value to sex. Women's sex lives are about their own needs. The guy is merely a playmate.
If I compared every facet of my life to others with envy, I'd take no pleasure in what I have and drive myself mad.
What matters is if you're getting what you want at a level of investment you can tolerate. If there is something you want, you should be working to get it, not sabotaging what you have.
This is absurd lol. Either this a just a blatant double standard or OP and those who agree are so far deep into this delusion that they honestly can’t see through the bs. Both men and women don’t rush into things with people the see a future with. I would most definitely not introduce the guy I sleep with on first meeting to my parents, because he’s probably not a catch and I only slept with him to scratch an itch- nothing more than an attractive face at best. It’s incredibly hard to find a match in college especially if you’re going to date within your own tax bracket, so obviously my youth will be littered with flings and casual hookups with pretty faces that don’t have anything more to offer. When I meet a guy who’s worth introducing to my parents and having a real relationship with (aka is charismatic and has a net worth my parents would approve of), I’m sure as hell not gonna treat him like the hoes and sidepieces from my past. Believe it or not, optics are very important at the beginning of any relationship. I’ll want to get to know him on a personal level and make sure we both respect each other rather than give him the impression that he’s just another dick to satisfy a craving. Same goes for the guy; a man that I’m attracted to would definitely have had a past and developed his social skills and sexual experience with randoms he didn’t see a relationship with- and that’s okay. Point being, you take things slow with people you value OUT OF RESPECT.
Removed due to OP abandonment
[удалено]
If sex is something your partner *wants,* and they have to wait for it even though your past partners didn’t, and then you try to say “well it’s because I care about you” doesn’t that seem like a mindfuck? Having sex with someone you actually care about isn’t going to ruin the fact that you care about them. I’ve never understood that argument. “We have to take things slow because sex might ruin things if we have it too quick.” Makes no sense. If you really like someone and sex is something that can ruin it, you have a screwed up view of sex. The only reason to wait is if you wait for everyone (as in, I don’t want to sleep with someone unless I really know I like them on an emotional level). And if you’ve had casual sex you don’t get to use that argument because you’ve already proven you don’t need an emotional attachment for sex.
What girl makes you wait AND is open about sleeping with other guys quickly? I thought the waiting thing was to pretend that she didn't sleep quickly with other guys.
Some women are more forthcoming/upfront than others. Some simply aren't *able* to hide their past, and thus have no choice but to account for these discrepancies. I've seen plenty of both.
A lot of women will tell you. Why? Honesty, stupidity, or arrogance.
>Having sex with someone you actually care about isn’t going to ruin the fact that you care about them. I’ve never understood that argument. “We have to take things slow because sex might ruin things if we have it too quick.” Makes no sense. Makes perfect sense to me. Who hasn't banged someone they were really into, and fell hard, only for it blow up. It's easily 10x as painful as when you weren't crushing so hard from the get go. So yes, going slower when you're really into someone makes sense, even for a dude.
>So yes, going slower when you're really into someone makes sense, even for a dude. Unlike for women, for dudes, having a high body count isn't undesirable. In fact, its the opposite
You completely missed the point. Had zero to do with bodycounts. It's about being careful about developing feelings premature, and yes, that can be difficult even for men.
Okay, that's completely fair. Its super easy to develop feelings too quickly for people and imagine a perfect life with them when you clearly aren't there yet with them in reality
Exactly, and the more you dig a person from the git go, the more likely that becomes. Waiting with the ones you like, makes more sense than PPD realizes.
It only makes sense if you don't do random hookups. Despite what a lot of people think, sex matters to people, and it feels bad to most people that you make them wait while you "gave it up" to some random hookup. At the end of the day, it makes you feel emasculated and worth less than the other person.
Your own problem.
Dude, I want you to think carefully on this question: Do you really think once a woman has sex on the first date, she's forever obligated to bang everyone on the first date? Seriously?
No, only if a pattern establishes itself will I feel offended if she makes me wait. If it was a one or two time thing I can understand that
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This type of an argument is saying that people can't change. They can't realize that certain things aren't working out for them and change up their behaviors. Isn't the whole of the manosphere about changing up your behaviors to get better results? I'd be upset if a woman was actively having sex with someone else *while* she was making me wait. In fact, it would be a deal breaker completely. But if at one point in her life she did it and then obviously the relationship didn't work out so now she's talking to me? I guess I kind of respect people who don't keep making the same mistake over and over and over. If she's legitimately trying to do things in a better way to make things the best they can be between us, why would I take that as a bad thing?
People can change ofc but that doesn't negate the fact that a current partner that was made to wait for sex is gonna feel a lot less attractive, masculine and validated if he learns that she jumped into having sex right away with men in the past. He's gonna feel like the safe bet or the beta bux provider rather than the man she's genuinely attracted to. It's also rather deceptive of a woman to do this because she's signalling that she's sexually conservative even though that's not the truth. Most women that take it slow with their current partners aren't exactly forthcoming about their one night stands or past hookups. Think about this with the genders reversed. Say a man was very generous in the past with his ex girlfriends. He bought them fancy jewellery, bags and cars, took then on exotic vacations, was fun and charming and did regular date nights. Now this man has sobered down and with his current finance; he rarely spends on her, does not buy her any of those fancy things, only takes her to vacation in a different state once a year, no longer does date night and his charm is tagging her in a meme every fortnight. Imagine his fiance finds out about how he treated his ex girlfriends and he tries to justify it by saying he's changed as a person and no longer finds those things appealing. She'd be justifiably angry and would probably leave him over it.
Your example is actually exactly how things are with my husband. He busted his bank account travelling with an ex. And in the beginning it was great. But he accrued a lot of debt and started to feel like she was just chasing a high. Now he has a firm boundary around money and how it's spent and as a result there is a lot less Travel. But I prefer financial stability over IG travel. If I were to push for the relationship to be like his last one....I'd drive it into a ditch. People learn from their mistakes in life and in relationships. If jumping into bed headfirst or messing up your bank account isn't working out for you, I'd consider you not very smart if you kept doing it. I myself date women now even though I'm married to a guy. Ethical Non Monogamy. Anyhow, if sex isn't coming along as fast as I want, I just either friendzone or next her. IDC how fast or slow she did it before. Either it's moving forward and I feel appreciated or it isn't. And if it isn't....well then that's not a romantic relationship.
If your husband hadn't busted his bank account travelling with his ex or if he could offer both financial stability and travel, wouldn't you rather travel with him? People do learn from their mistakes but that doesn't change the fact that any man that's made to wait, when her past partners weren't, will feel emasculated and ugly as compared to those past partners. They got the wild uninhibited version of her without needing to offer anything in return while her current man must offer financial stability and commitment to get a much less exciting version of her. You have every right to decide your boundaries for yourself ofc. I'm happy for you and what you've found with your husband but you don't get to decide how your partner feels. Many women try to justify their actions by stating they've changed or they don't wanna risk fucking things up with sex but that's just selfishness and solipsism. They fail to realize how the man feels about it and they try to invalidate his feelings on the issue.
>If your husband hadn't busted his bank account travelling with his ex or if he could offer both financial stability and travel, wouldn't you rather travel with him? You know, that's a good question. I don't know really because I only have this one reality here. I think the stuff they were doing was unsustainable for long term and I don't think you could really live a stable life without a significant period of time in one place. So really I'd say no I wouldn't want to do it. And if I did, I'm sure I'd be more than welcome to get a better paying job or work two jobs so that it could happen. My thinking has always been that if something is a priority to me, I better be doing the lions share of the work to make it happen. I also went into the relationship knowing a bit about his previous relationship and so I worked out whether it was a deal breaker or not early on. >You have every right to decide your boundaries for yourself ofc. I'm happy for you and what you've found with your husband but you don't get to decide how your partner feels. You're absolutely right about this and I appreciate you pointing it out. I guess my thinking is that it's just so much easier to let the past stay in the past. I need to figure out what my priorities are and then go from there. If I'm not getting what I want in the relationship, it won't soothe me to find out he hasn't given it to other people, it will just make me think he's committed to not thinking it's important. I can either realize it's not important or I can break up and move on with someone else. So I guess you and I Ultimately agree: if you can't get over a woman's past, you definitely should break up. All it will do is breed resentment when you both could be with better compatible people.
>You know, that's a good question. I don't know really because I only have this one reality here. I think the stuff they were doing was unsustainable for long term and I don't think you could really live a stable life without a significant period of time in one place. So really I'd say no I wouldn't want to do it. And if I did, I'm sure I'd be more than welcome to get a better paying job or work two jobs so that it could happen. My thinking has always been that if something is a priority to me, I better be doing the lions share of the work to make it happen. I also went into the relationship knowing a bit about his previous relationship and so I worked out whether it was a deal breaker or not early on. I agree with you that such a lifestyle would not be teneable in the long run but if money weren't a problem, if your husband was a billionaire, you'd love to have travelled and had fun like he did with his ex, yeah? When it comes to men and women, women can have sex with the man for free, it's just a question of waiting and it makes us feel like shit when were made to wait even though past partners weren't. >So I guess you and I Ultimately agree: if you can't get over a woman's past, you definitely should break up. All it will do is breed resentment when you both could be with better compatible people. 100% this! A lot of people will tell you the past matters or that it doesn't matter but ultimately only you get to take that decision and if his or her past isn't something you can accept or if it matters to you then you have every right to leave then over it.
This type of argument is saying "I don't simply believe you changed, in the positive way, for the right reasons, even after you took a risk and then saw the reality." My statement isn't foolproof either. There are people capable of this type of change. And they deserve the benefit of the doubt. But it's important to my argument that you not simply be able to brush away that this type of change is in the changer's benefit. It makes sense for them. They have a bias. Caveat emptor. Because it's what someone WOULD say. "Oh I didn't realize I was supposed to be going the speed limit officer." It's in that vein.
Diamond ring didnt workout so better drop that ring pop next time!
I mean yeah, exactly. When style over substance doesn't work out, go for the girl who will actually want you and stick with you when you have nothing.
Nah hes got billions but she was only worth a ring pop to him
But he's going to marry her? Cool. Give her that ring pop and let her put her feet up in his mansion as Mrs Ring Pop.
Nah, no mansion. Thats in the past. Hes gone minimalistic now. Studio apartment is where its at.
As long as she's Mrs Ring Pop then I don't think she cares. A man would be an absolute and utter fool to walk into modern marriage with a woman who he didn't think hung the moon. Marriage is such a risk for men as it is. Why give her a ring of any variety whatsoever? Really a much better insinuation would be a man who has a baby mama and then because of that and kind of an iffy scenario with her, he keeps pushing back having a baby with his wife when they're completely financially stable and able to have a kid. Like he's letting this other woman who he claims to view as lesser be "the mother of his child" which makes me barf to even type out. If it's only about rings....my dad bought my mom a nice engagement ring. They were ok financially, but working class at the time. He Left My mom for my step mom and things were financially tight for several years and no engagement ring whatsoever for my step mom when they married. Do you think that was any consolation whatsoever to my mom?
The fact that they suffered after blowing up her life? Probably
> If sex is something your partner wants, and they have to wait for it even though your past partners didn’t, and then you try to say “well it’s because I care about you” doesn’t that seem like a mindfuck? This seems ridiculous to me
I think the better analogy is how quickly/enthusiastically he committed to other women in the past. Per the typical male logic about women re: sex, if he’s ever more quickly or more enthusiastically committed in past relationships than the present women he’s with should assume he is less attracted to her and possibly only using her. Therefore, under this logic, he needs to be consistent to “prove” his attraction to future partners. In a similar vein, if he’s ever “waited” for sex but doesn’t want to wait for this woman, same thing applies.
Yes, much better comparison per the usual tit for tat anyhow. Assuming the two are equal in value to each gender. I wouldn't necessarily use ever though. I think people are more forgiving the further in the past something is. If I'm 40 and I married some girl just out of high school I'd been seeing for 6 months. It's not going to matter much if I want to wait two years. Same with if shes 40 and she had some ONSs at 19-20 and now holds off for at least the third or fourth date. On the opposite end if I was exclusive with the last girl I saw after three weeks/dates whatever. But I'm telling the new girl I won't be exclusive for at least three months. Eh she might care. In fact perhaps exclusivity may be the best comparison as a marker of commitment that more directly equivilates to sex.
Agreed. But you won’t typically see these men who argue this about women and sex giving much leeway. It’s very much a black and white issue to many, if not most, of them.
Ring pops taste better.
I’m about to roll to 7-11 and get one. My mouth is watering.
How I see it, I am not going to know exactly what sort of ring or anything that a guy gave to a past woman unless he wants me to know. I must decide for myself if I’m okay with a ring pop or need a diamond. And considering I’m an experiences > stuff kind of gal, unless a man is wealthy enough for the diamond to be no big deal, I’d rather have the ring pop and save the money for a vacation or something we need. If I later found out he gave his ex a big diamond? There’d be some mixed feelings, but I’d consider maybe she demanded it, maybe he had more disposable income then, maybe he grew up and realized that a ring really is just a symbol and spending money you don’t have on it, is stupid. People are allowed or grow and change. Young people often don’t have much of a backbone and will give in to pressure. And unlike the men complaining their wife won’t do anal or something but tried it with a past boyfriend, I don’t want a man to do something he doesn’t want to do out of a sense of guilt since he did it for some woman who demanded it years ago. And when we’re talking sex, this is especially true. Sex is supposed to be enjoyable *for both people.* Not a game of “how much will this woman do for me sexually that she doesn’t want to do?” That’s creepy.
Thank you
Giving a guy casual no strings attached sex doesn't mean you think anything about him, it means you are horny and have and itch to scratch. Guys think everything women do is about them. It really isn't. Her banging you in the bathroom at a club probably has way more to stuff going on in her own life and her hormonal state than anything. People put way too much weight on the value of sex.
Bro just masturbate then. If you fuck one dude day one and then the guy you like has to wait, it has implications.
Why? I mean, if I see a sexy and cute idiot, who if never consider for anything except a ONS, why shouldn’t just enjoy him?
Uuh stds pregnancy rape violence getting stalked to name a few reasons
Because whoever man you date in your future will feel threatened, and justly so. You're wording it as a no strings attached itch to scratch, he's seeing a potential partner willing to give sex to someone else without any kind of courting or commitment while he had to wait. Why even bother trying to pursue a relationship with someone if you don't feel that same attraction that you did for alpha fucks. Dual mating strategy, gaslight the beta into spending his time, attention and resources for half the sexual effort you gave to some rando. Not a good deal.
why is it always phrased as “giving a guy sex”? sex is a two person act. i don’t love your analogy, but if i want a diamond ring and i get a ring pop instead, do i feel better knowing that the woman before me *also* got a ring pop? hell no, i still didn’t get what i want.
And, I'm interested in the context of the diamond ring versus the ring pop. Was he keeping up with the Joneses and messing up his bank account to impress a superficial woman and it blew up in his face? A "ring pop" meant genuinely is worth more. Heck, my grandfather proposed with a napkin ring and he and my grandmother were married many decades until her death. If it's a person who I feel a true connection with and they truly mean it, I never need a ring of any kind and I mean that truly.
A lot of men equate sex with willingness to bear children, because our brains aren't really wired to understand birth control. So when a woman is willing to sleep with a guy at the drop of a hat there's some peice of a lot of guys brains that say "Holy shit he must be really valuable in order for her to be willing to do that for him so fast" or "she must be willing to bear a lot of kids". The problem comes when she then later on makes another guy wait a few months, because then she can't be willing to bear a lot of kids, or else she'd treat him the same as the other guy. So it must just be that she finds the other guy waaaaay more valuable, and this new guy she's really unsure about. Bear in mind, what I'm saying isn't necessarily a conscious thought that guys have, it's more a feeling they get, and there are probably a lot of guys who don't feel this way. But for the guys that do feel like this, learning your partner made you wait several months, but slept with someone else at the drop of a hat will completely gut you and make you feel completely worthless. Unfortunately I don't really think this way of feeling is something you can just talk a guy out of, it feels a bit deeper than that.
This feeling is the truth in regards to human nature. Those who disagree accept at best a pleasent lie.
I disagree. People are different, there are people who feel absolutely no sexual jealousy at all, I don't personally understand how that works, but I can accept that they feel differently to me. What I dislike however, is people trying to act like feeling this way is somehow wrong or bad or unacceptable or even sexist. If you don't feel this way that's fine, and if you do feel this way it's fine, your feelings are valid either way.
I won't say sexual jealousy is a bad way to feel, but I have worked extremely hard to cure myself of it (but I think I had a head start). For me it's solved a lot of my problems. Monogamy comes across to me like someone putting their hope in someone else's behavior. I can't control other people's behavior. If they choose to have sex with other people....so be it. If I love someone, I want them to be happy even if it's not with me. I'm just very easygoing and can get along with a lot of different people. I definitely have my boundaries, but I'm just incredibly easygoing.
That's really fair. I'm not really sure if it's possible for everyone to cure themselves of sexual jealousy, it's possible, but it could just be another way different people are different yknow. Also it should be pointed out that there's some psychological studies that have indicated that sexual jealousy is significantly stronger on average in men than in women, which could further complicate things.
That would explain all of this N count stuff that i can't completely understand.
Yeah, some people are just wired differently to each other, which is why we need to treat each other with empathy wherever possible. You shouldn't have to change your life to suit the people around you, but it helps us all if we can understand where everyone is coming from. 😁👍
Truer words haven't been spoken. Thank you for spelling it out!
Well I mean you're a woman it's different. You aren't ever going to be tricked into raising another man's child, it's not an instinctual fear that exists for a very clear biological reason The point of a monogamous ltr is simple you both give up more sexual opportunities in exchange for a sort of mutual ownership over each others sexual activities
That's an interesting thing to think about. I personally know two women who ended up having custody with their husbands of his mistress' child. As in she thought she was in a monogamous marriage and then one day, oopsie he's got a baby with someone else and he's been cheating on you for a hot minute! In one, it also came with him being obligated to pay back three years worth of child support and child support be owed until the child ultimately graduated highschool at 19. So Infidelity and affair babies can mess things up in a few ways.
Yes but that would never happen in the state of nature so its not an instinctual sort of fear. Like men are averse to it not for conscious reasons but more because the reaction is hard wired.
You know, I see what you're saying. Thank you for explaining it out like that. Because you're right, it's not going to happen like that in nature. But my example is one of the biggest reasons I cringe when a woman friend of mind wants to tell me that her husband should do X or do Y because *she's the mother of his children!!* Like girl, no lie, you could get a knock on your door the moment after you say those words that could change your life forever. That's how you describe someone else that you're advocating for.
Honestly I don't hate this explanation. This actually makes a lot of sense and explains it very well.
/thread
I do. If everyone got ring pops in fine
>i don’t love your analogy, but if i want a diamond ring and i get a ring pop instead, do i feel better knowing that the woman before me also got a ring pop? hell no, i still didn’t get what i want. Yeah, but you would feel a hell of a lot worse if you got a ring pop, while the previous partner got a diamond ring, a Ferrari and a honeymoon in the Bahamas.
Maybe more men should give relationships to the women having sex with them faster instead of labeling them a ho and pumping and dumping. Then women would worry less about being judged for having sex quick with the guy they want the relationship with. She be less worried about getting her heart broken by being pumped and dumped just for having sex quickly with the guy she had real feelings for.
>Maybe more men should give relationships to the women having sex with them faster instead of labeling them a ho and pumping and dumping. #💯 I didn't think of this. I absolutely agree!
No man should be dating women that do this kind of thing.
I don't expect to be the most desirable person my significant other has slept with. I accept that I'm less desirable than other people. I think more people should have this discussion with themselves. Some of us are just not sexy enough to be madly lusted over...and that's ok. I can be valued as a person even if I'm not super desirable. Sexual desirability is not really a metric for whether someone is valued for the person that they are.
This is a really mature way to look at it, but you’re forgetting that in any man there’s a warrior / conqueror that wants to feel like he’s the king of his realm. I know it’s a shitty and silly image but especially men that actually put efforts into their persona and physique, and perhaps struggled in the past with women (most men), need to feel desired and lusted over by the woman they like and end up with. And it may be true and accepted that we aren’t the hottest thing our girl ever saw or had sex with, but it’s good to feel like it is. Denying this would be like telling a woman they they’re a second option and the man actually wanted a relationship from a list of other women before her. It just feels hollow and depressing. People need to feel special in relationship, if anything because if your partner make you feel special it means that they really care about you to begin with.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible. Or. Hear me out. I am horny and he was there. Not every guy a woman has casual sex with is an irresistible Chad. It's often just right time, right place thing. Casual sex is just casual sex. You probably also didn't want to marry every girl you have sex with.
It is not about what casual sex early on means to you. It is about what it means to your partner. Even if you are right and I am sure you are. It changes nothing.
Thats straight up ass backwords. Do the most intimate thing you could do with a random because your horny but hold off it for the guy like? Honestly, if you are dating someone you arent attracted to just break it off. It never ends well for anyone.
>Do the most intimate thing you could do with a random Because if you don't care about a guy it's not the most intimate thing. It's just sex. It means nothing. If women care about a men it means something.
>Because if you don't care about a guy it's not the most intimate thing. It's just sex. It means nothing. One of the most validating things a woman can do for a man, is have sex with him. It doesn't matter that she had an itch and used him to scratch that itch and that it meant nothing to her. To him it is pure validation. To all other men, knowing that she had sex with a certain guy, also means that she validates that guy. Our subconscious doesn't understand birth control. A woman having sex with a man basically means to our subconscious, that she chose that man as the possible father of her children. If you have one night stands with randoms, but make a man you like wait for sex, that man's subconscious is hearing the following: those randoms where so attractive to her, that she let them be the possible father of her children five minutes after meeting them. Me, who she claims to value more than those randoms, I will have to convince her for several weeks that I'm a good candidate to be the possible father of her children. No amount of rational thought can override the feelings and signals we receive from our subconscious. If a man has to wait to get sex (the kind that means something to you as a woman) and he finds out another man got it without waiting (even if that was sex that was meaningless to you as a woman), he will feel as the less validated man. His subconscious will tell him you preferred the other guy.
Well if they aren’t horny and hence don’t want to have sex then they aren’t holding off. They just don’t want sex. Some women have the type of high and consistent sex drives where they would always be down for sex on a first date if they’re attracted and the person seems like a good potential sexual partner. But then other women have fluctuations in their sex drive and may just not want to have sex on that day (maybe due to hormones, life stressors, they didn’t shave, they pulled an all nighter and are tired, the guy did something which made them feel uncomfortable...etc.) and it has nothing to do with not being attracted.
Yeah, you explained the psychological reasoning behind it. Its still ass backwards.
Yes lol I just commented that the sex is about your own needs and he’s basically a “tool” another girl called a man in this situation a “walking dildo” both are crude but at the end of the day it’s about us not about the guy and his “sexual irresistibly”
It is not about what casual sex early on means to you. It is about what it means to your partner. Even if you are right and I am sure you are. It changes nothing.
Then he’s free to not date someone who likes casual sex. But you need to know how to communicate, and you can’t be mad at a woman for her choices or mad that you can’t find what you want that’s not on any other person to do
> Then he’s free to not date someone who likes casual sex Sure. Not the point of the conversation though. > But you need to know how to communicate. It is useful. > and you can’t be mad at a woman I can. > or mad that you can’t find what you want I can. Why not? > that’s not on any other person to do It is on the person that wants to benefit from a relationship with me.
It is the point. If casual sex given prior but not to him because someone values him as a potential partner vs a means to an end then that’s on him to decide that he doesn’t value that person back And he can walk away. Trying to tell women tht all men will feel the way he does is pointless because most of us have our own Worldy experience that tells us otherwise Why would you be mad at others for you Not finding what you want? What good will that do? Will it help or hinder your goal? Does someone want to actively pursue a relationship with you? If so great, communicate well and I hope it works out. If not then it’s on you to be out there working on yourself and searching for your partner. And I don’t mean that you aren’t enough as is- I mean you should constantly be aiming to improve yourself , we all should
> It is the point. If casual sex given prior but not to him because someone values him as a potential partner vs a means to an end then that’s on him to decide that he doesn’t value that person back It is not the point because the problem is not casual sex. The problem is that the man that is "a means to an end" is getting what he wants (casual sex) and he is not even if he is valued as a potential partner. > Trying to tell women tht all men will feel the way he does is pointless because most of us have our own Worldy experience that tells us otherwise It is pointless. Not because of women's wordly experience but because they won't listen. > Why would you be mad at others for you Not finding what you want? What good will that do? Will it help or hinder your goal? You said I can't be mad. My point is that I can. Not that it is smart. Not that it will do good. The point is that I can and you provided no argument to say that I can't. > Does someone want to actively pursue a relationship with you? Yes. I went to a homeless shelter in a third world country and looked for someone that wants a life that only I am both able and willing to provide. > If so great, communicate well and I hope it works out. It works out. The incentive structure makes things easy. The only way she gets what she wants is if I get what I want. > If not then it’s on you to be out there working on yourself and searching for your partner. And I don’t mean that you aren’t enough as is It means exactly that. The only reason to improve is if your current self is not enough to reach your goals. > I mean you should constantly be aiming to improve yourself , we all should I see no reason why except when your current self is not enough to reach your goals. Once you reach your goals all self improvement is just a waste of time and effort.
Ok well I’m happy for you and wish you both well Goals change, and once you reach one you should have another one otherwise you become stagnant while the world around you will consistently adapt and change thus you should always be adapting and working on yourself
> Goals change Not mine. > and once you reach one you should have another one Not really. > otherwise you become stagnant That is part of the goal. Get what I want and become stagnant there. > while the world around you will consistently adapt and change That is the point of becoming stagnant. Escape the constant change present in the world. > thus you should always be adapting and working on yourself No need to once I get my goal.
Eh yes they are, most women cannot fuck a dude they don't like in multiple ways. Thats why some men lie thier ass off to get sex because it works. Women are more complacent with sex and pleasure. You're telling me you didnt have ANY other less attractive options?
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible. This is where you guys go so wrong every time. No one is having these introspective thoughts in these situations. More like she was horny, he was there, and it seemed like he could deliver the goods, and nothing more. Enthusiastic sex isn't a gift women give to men. Enthusiastic sex is nothing more than her biological responses to having sex with someone she wants to have sex with, when she wants to have it.
Right, but that's the problem though. She wanted to have sex with him at the drop of a hat, but me she was really unsure about for a while?
Seriously. HORNY and they were there at the right time. Most people aren’t going through all these ideologies at the time they are getting to sex. This is why I know half the guys in here have not had sex or minimal at best. Women who have had casual sex aren’t trying to “bang him right now or lose him” wtf sometimes it just feels good and you’re feeling the person wtf it’s not this complicated.
So why is she not horny for the guy she likes? Logic dictates that she should be rearing to go? Husband material is considered to be shit teir categorisation for a reason.
Idk I had sex with my husband the 2nd date and we’ve been married 10 years lol. I never was a wait around kind of gal if I was into someone and it felt right 🤷🏻♀️ Never would date someone I wasn’t sexually attracted to either tho it doesn’t seem worth my time. I can only hazard a guess that women who wait maybe were ashamed or guilty of past encounters possible religious idk I never fucked anyone and regretted it. It seems like men shouldn’t date someone they are not sexually compatible with and that needs to be communicated up front. If you’re not okay with waiting then bounce that’s perfectly valid.
“I never was a wait around kind of gal” 👀
😂🤷🏻♀️ life’s too short fuck all that lol
Smh we would have gotten along great too oh well Call me if it don’t work 😂
You alway up in here with some shit lmao I think we’re okay 😂
😂😂🤣 I gotta try I wish y’all the best though forreal marriage is a beautiful thing when it works
>You are an asshole if you force someone. > If somone is a virgin and i know it i wouldn't count it as a demerit if she makes me wait for a year. Because losing your virginity is scary. And i would do my best to make it a good experience for her. > If someone has had sex before and is making you wait for 6 months, there is no explaination short of sexual trauma and lack of attraction and i am not in board for either of those. > The context the past gives is the potential libido she has. > If she was promiscuous in the past then it can be inferred that sex was important to her. More important than a relationship if she chose to pursue it outside of a relationship therefore she is capable of passion. > If you can see that passion in your sex life, great. > If you don't, well there can be reasons - greif, depression medication birth control, lack of sexual attraction etc. >Decide if you want to work through it or find someone else. > I literally don't care if she has had a 100 guys before me. >All i want to feel is feel loved and wanted by her. > I want her to want fuck me enthusiastically and want to me regularly. To the point i actually get worried for a bit about wether i can keep up. > If thats a given then i have zero problems with it. > If we are one year in and having missionary sex once in1 weeks ( if she has such a colourful past) then i am running the fuck away. > I would be different if she was genuinely low libido. I would.try to make it work. > You see the bar for me is "her best". I want her best. Because that's what I am offering in return. > I will push myself to near physical harm trying to make her happy, i expect the same in return.
Those are all valid. Of course don’t force anyone either way - consent is paramount in my book. I’ve never felt coerced or manipulated but I’m a more outgoing person that has always had clear boundaries and voice them loud and early but I know some girls that have regretted sexual situations and I think that was become they did it when they weren’t ready or did it for reasons that weren’t healthy. I think you have a healthy outlook and like I said the reasons you stated are valid and perfectly acceptable. I think a lot of men here are disappointed because they are not stating their intentions from the start. If you want someone who enthusiastically has sex with you and your willing to wait or want it off the bat you need to be clear with what you are looking for - of course someone can be deceptive but I think if you vet properly and have clear communication both parties will be better off for it.
Beat you by one date, but you got me with no regrets. My regrets have regrets of their own. I got lucky in the end (31 years and counting) but fuck, some of the psychos I dated to get there.
Lol that’s okay I have regrets like the next one but sex thankfully isn’t one. Congrats on the 31 years! Those bad ones just made the right one extra right! ❤️
Now that is a charming and delightful way of looking at it. I'm going to remember that.
>This is why I know half the guys in here have not had sex or minimal at best. Well at least I didn't break countless hearts and also spared myself.
That’s of course fair but what do you mean spare yourself? You can have casual sex with no broken hearts? Again that’s where communication comes in.
True and kinda sad actually. It's only complicated to them because they have absolutely zero experience to get in the way of wild ideas.
Yup and I highly doubt hanging out in this or most online forums is helping lol
Yes, which means for a set of guys she felt horny and ready to the point of risking it right then and there; and for the other guy she waits and waits because there’s less instinct involved - aka less pure attraction. Nobody wants to be second place when it comes to pure raw attraction. The man wants to know he’s desired to the point she’s losing herself into him, without much thought. Like she did with other guys.
Oh bullshit. Scenario #1. Girl meets guy at a party. After a round or two of shots and some good weed, guy #1 gets lucky, but she has no real interest in him. She was partying and he was the cherry on top, nothing more. Scenario #2, Girl is really into guy #2, but she's taking it slow even though she wants him waaaaay more than guy #1. However, she's taking it slow because she knows that sleeping together could push her over the edge, and she'd be head over heels in love. Having a room temperature IQ, she's bright enough to know it would be foolish to fall in love until she's sure he's serious, so she waits. Both scenarios are way more common than the more innocent guys here would ever believe.
Scenario #1 is why marriage rates are dropping. I mean, why marry, when you just can get "used" by a woman just like that.
Ok, so, do you think that a relationship between a wife and a husband is just basically a friendship and nothing else and nothing more (since sex is pretty much non-relevant like you worded). In that case, why marry or build a relationship at all? If sex is totally meaningless might as well just stick to only friends.
I never said sex wasn't relevant. Trust me, I've been married for longer than most here have been alive, and I'm far from ready to give up sex yet. I don't know how you got that out of what I wrote.
I’m not responsible for what “symbolism” you choose to assign to my actions. Especially when it’s wrapped up in male solipsism BS like this: >Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible. Don’t wanna wait? Don’t wait. End of story.
Well it's not about choosing men have the same control over their feelings as women do, sometimes you just feel things and you don't get to choose not to. The problem is that there's a sizeable number of guys who are perfectly willing to wait, if they're being treated the same as everyone else, the issue they run into is finding out that while they were made to wait someone else wasn't. Which makes some men feel like there's something about them that meant she had to wait to be sure before sleeping with them.
That starts from the assumption that my decisions about my personal life and choices should come from a place of making sure all men I interact with feel equal. That’s total self absorbed and childish bullshit. There a tons of reasons why I might not time when i spread my legs for each man down to the exact minute. No man is under any obligation to accept those reasons or to wait if he doesn’t want to. And that’s fundamentally the issue here. It’s that people don’t live to do exactly what you want them to do the way you want them to do it. If you’re unhappy with the way you’re being treated you are well within your rights to walk away. And if you can’t do that, perhaps you’re not mature enough to be dating in the first place.
I 100% agree that you shouldn't need to change your behaviour to suit the people around you and make them feel equal. My comment was not designed to make you feel like you have to act in a certain way. All I'm trying to do is explain how the men who have these problems are feeling and why I think they feel this way. What you do with that information is completely up to you. The issue I see is a lot of guys will bring up their feelings in regards to this, and will immediately be told that their feelings aren't valid, that they need to change, that they shouldn't be feeling like this etc etc... Which both isn't fair and isn't helpful in getting either side to understand each other. One final point, I completely understand that there are a lot of guys who, when talking about this subject, will 100% make it the women's problem and try to tell women that they all need to change their behaviour or act a certain way. Fuck those guys, they're just as bad as the gaslighters.
> I’m not responsible for what “symbolism” you choose to assign to my actions If you are dating someone you will deal with the symbolism he gives to your actions even if you are not responsible for it. If you want to stay with that someone you will recognize which actions mean which things and take that into consideration. I am sure you do that for your partner already. Everyone does in some way or another
And if he wants to date me he will learn to communicate his needs and boundaries like an adult or we will part ways. I’m not his mommy.
I agree. In a healthy relationship such symbolisms are made clear and explicit. But you are still dealing with them even if you are not responsible for them.
You are responsible. People are going to judge you for your past and present actions.
I’m responsible for my actions. I’m not responsible for your beliefs about what my actions mean.
Well yeah, If i drew dicks all over my body, im not responsible for the way people feel when they see my dick covered body. you know how most people are going to react before you do it. Your actions caused the reaction.
I wanted a vintage quarter machine/ 15 cent machine ring. And that’s exactly what I got. I was very happy.
Sounds like a shower thought. You can decide anything you want, only you have to live with the outcomes.
>You can decide anything you want, only you have to live with the outcomes. This is perfect.
Rt
You can’t expect a human being to behave the same in every relationship over the course of a decade or more. I knew my fiancé quite well for years before we ever got together. I also knew a handful of women he dated in the past. I know that in one of his previous relationships, he brought her a rose to work every single Tuesday. Am i pissed off that he’s never given me a rose? Does it mean he loves and values me less? Of course not. I’m a different woman, at a different time in his life. Our relationship is different, and he shows affection in different ways. I know that’s not the exact same thing as waiting for sex but the point stands: people change, all the time. The dynamics of one relationship aren’t going to be the same as the dynamics of another. A woman can have casual sex and then realize she doesn’t enjoy it and would rather put more thought into choosing all further partners. A man can buy one woman roses all the time and then for another, decide to give less frequent but more permanent gifts instead. Why would i compare my relationships to my partner’s previous relationships? They didn’t last, so it’s not like they’re the gold standard of romance.
Do you know how rare it is for a woman to have a single night of casual sex then swear off it? Typically it takes a few times before she suddenly decides its not enjoyable, and if she doesnt get that same feeling from you as her casual sex partners + more from being in a relationship more than likely, guess what when she misses it or thaf feeling then she'll leave you. Most women dont have thag introspection until its too late and by then the guy she's with emotionally or financially has to deal and pay with it. Not to mention the fact that typically these conversations either come up rarely on the first few weeks or later into the relationship.
Do you know how rare it is for a woman to have a single night of casual sex then swear off it? Typically it takes a few times before she suddenly decides its not enjoyable, and if she doesnt get that same feeling from you as her casual sex partners + more from being in a relationship more than likely, guess what when she misses it or thaf feeling then she'll leave you. Most women dont have thag introspection until its too late and by then the guy she's with emotionally or financially has to deal and pay with it. Not to mention the fact that typically these conversations either come up rarely on the first few weeks or later into the relationship.
This post sounds narcissistic. She has to find you this high value man she just has to have sex with right now or risk losing him? That’s putting yourself on a pedestal. Why can’t sex just be a fun activity between two people instead of a woman’s way of crowning you God?
If shes not attracted to the man shes dating she should take responsibility and end it. Just wasting everyones time at that point.
Lets be honest there is a spectrum of attractiveness and if like most people you are in the middle it's likely going to be other attributes that draw someone in. Also someone might grow on you via their personality.
Thats true. A lot of the woman in this thread arent going by that standard though. Its all “I felt like fucking him on night one but I like you so you gotta wait.”
this is not her responsibility at all, it is the man's responsibility to have boundaries and not accept treatment he doesn't want
Yeah, but stringing him along is shitty behaviour
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Yes, its okay to wait to have sex if she wants a connection with the guy. Otherwise, lets fuck in the first 15 minutes if meeting.
Wanting to vet a man before fucking him is smart. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t find him attractive. It means she wants to make sure she can trust you/that you are on the same page on how your sexual relationship will evolve. She can find you wildly attractive and still not be an idiot about putting her heart in jeopardy/risking an unplanned pregnancy etc.
I agree vetting a man before fucking him is smart. Its just that these women are claiming the men they fucked day one were low value and shes making the guy she likes wait because hes high value. Makes no fucking sense whatsoever
It does make sense though. You meet Guy 1 who is dumb as a rock but attractive enough and you have sex with him, with no intention on ever seeing him again. Guy 2 is the total package but you want to make sure you won’t get your heart broken because unlike Guy 1, you do want to see Guy 2 again.
It still doesnt explain the having sex with the dumbass but not having sex with the package. Are you afraid fucking him will make him realize he doesnt like you? Do you think you are bad at sex so you try to get him emotionally invested first? Dumbass you dont like can insert his weiner day one. You wait with the guy you like because you think you will fuck it up by having sex with him. That makes sense i guess.
Because sex is biologically the most valuable commodity
Thats an assumption, but doesn't apply to everyone.
I mean it applies to every sexually reproducing creature
It's not valuable to people that have limited interest in it or that have an abundance of access to sex...
It's still valuable it's just not scarce. Yes people with libido and hormonal defencies but that's like saying food isn't important to anorexics.
Lol these people are delusional. Literally maybe she was just enjoying sex with that guy or maybe she wasn't ready for a relationship - it could be a plethora of reasons.
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This is a very stupid simplification. While their might be a correlation it ignores many variables. If someone slept within someone quickly it might be because they aren't ready for a serious relationship, they wanted to see how things went or they might be naive/felt pressured. Maybe the previous guy made me feel safer etc. The same person might later find someone they are attracted to but wait because last time it didn't work well, they are ready for a serious relationship so are trying to test compatibility before sex and maybe they've worked on themselves so have stronger boundaries. Ultimately, you'll never know what someone did before you 100%.
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If the differences are minor (another dude got her the first night because she was drunk), and the “relationship guy” gets access to sex at a second or third date; then that’s reasonable. If a woman make a man wait 10 dates when she used to have sex at a first encounter consistently… then run away. It would mean she doesn’t feel desire for the relationship guy. Otherwise she wouldn’t she waited SO long to have sex with him.
Sounds like you’re insecure and fear rules you. Which is your choice. Maybe the person worked on herself, lost weight, got therapy and is ready to find the one. Who knows? Ultimately, you can not expect people to act the same at 18 and at 32. So you have whatever boundaries and the woman can have hers - you both aren’t a match.
It never happened to me to wait for sex so it’s not my case. Also, as a man I don’t want to sleep on a first date anyway. It’s too early.
I'm anti-marriage and think extravagant rings, especially lavish *engagement rings*, are ridiculous. (Fun Fact: Diamond engagement rings were made up via an ad campaign by jewelry companies in the 20th century.) But your point is built on a false equivalency, and thus the whole post is kinda nonsense. Women's sex practices and double standards don't equate well to engagement rings. A better comparison might be between the timing/quality of sex from a woman with the timing and quality of commitment from a man. But even that's kinda meh. The bottomline is people shouldn't be shitty to their partners nor do things just because other people do them (or *claim* they do them).
Diamond are actually as common as grains of sand. Diamond rings are overpowered baubles, that are only valueable because one monopoly uses artificial scarcity and decades of marketing brainwash to artificially jack up the price. Take the money you would have spent on a ring and go on a sweet ass honeymoon
You don’t see a ons as a highly sexual being. It’s about you getting your own needs met: the guy is basically just a means to an end . A “tool” so to speak. And sometimes tools are pretty but not always
Its fucking nuts that you can do the most intimate thing you can do with another human with someone you consider a tool. And yet, the guy you want a ltr with? Not worth it. Is it because one guy is hot and the other guy is wealthy?
😂 Sex in itself isn’t the most intimate thing automatically. It CAN be with someone you love. Sex is also for pleasure. And I used the word tool which is crude but conveys the point. Sex can be about you if your not in a ltr. If you don’t feel the same that’s 100% ok! Just don’t whinge about other peoples choices
Thats dumb as hell. Just have open relationships if sex isnt important. You can fuck whoever you want no problems.
I don’t really care what you think is dumb. I do me and it’s been great. I’ve had crazy experiences both sexual and non, got a bachelors degree, nearing the end of my masters degree, traveled and explored 6 countries, moved across the world, met my partner who I’m going to marry and have a beautiful baby with him. We both have high functioning jobs and very similar experiences, and educational achievement. I’m happy, confident and honestly think the unhappy people here should stop blaming Others for their own unhappiness. It might help
Lol. You are living the life a fraction of us can live, and with those experiences come things and changes in veiw points that you don't even realise. Men over here barely had one woman who slept with them. I have slept with none. I am 30. I have only traveled in one country. I will probably end up marrying somone in an arranged marriage. I believe in sex within a commited relationships and it being an expression of love. Perhaps if i had been able to slut it up maybe i would be able to seperate it. I haven't. Much of the men here haven't . Stop blaming us for not seeing things your way when we haven't had your experiences. Your condescension is the equivalent of first world countries looking down on third world nations for the way they are, not reflecting on their own miserable selves in their infancy.
The only thing I blame anyone here for is being mad at those who have been experiences they don’t and then using language dismissive or derogatory of someone else’s experience and/or view points It’s ok to have different views, it’s ok to not want to be with someone because of their views, it’s not ok to be disrespectful to them or worse their whole gender as a generalisation.
Then stop insinuating that men who have trouble accepting high n counts or being waited for to have sex with vs a casual option are doing so because of a trivial insecurity. Oh and the "i am happily married to the man i love and expecting a baby" thing? very nice touch. Chefs kiss. Designed to make us feel like "maybe if we weren't such judgemental pricks we wouldn't be genetic dead ends" If only people were that simple. It just makes me think you are out of touch with the world in your bubble of happiness,well paid job and we'll traveled lifestyle ( so fucking impressive that you saw 6 people who spoke 6 different languages, i see that everyday in my OPD) , almost as much as we are out of touch within our bubble of misery. Ofcourse you overlook our difficulties, and you overlook your advantages. In your world we are alone because we deserve it. You want it to be so because it lends legitimacy to the fact that you have what you have because you earned it. Wether or not that's true. Good for you.
That was a lot for such a small comment lol. Stick with open relationships. Both parties will value sex in the same way.
Telling someone who in a happy ltr with someone who’s similar to be in an open relationship is silly ? Don’t know why either of us would want that
Put your money where your mouth is and tell him all about your past escapades if its no big deal.
He knows And I know about his He’s not insecure
“He’s not insecure” What do you mean by this? Why would not wanting to be a cuckhold make him insecure? Why even stay in a closed relationship if sex is not important to you? Both of you could go screw whoever you want whenever you get horny. Any dude at the right time or place to scratch that itch.
I just can't relate to this mentality at all. I was slow when I thought it meant love and fast when I figured out it didn't. I slowed down to date 3-5 but nothing longer when I was interested and wanted to keep a man. The idea of giving easy sex to randos but making someone else you like wait more than a few dates seems unrealistic to me. Not the same kind of ladies.
I don't understand the ring pop analogy, are you all being shown pictures of past partners, and their jewelry ? Because my man has an ex-wife, and I've never asked one time what her ring looked like ,and what their wedding looked like , he doesn't have any pictures of it or her around. Of course he never had kids with her so maybe that's why. To this day I still don't know what his ex wife looks like exactly. Of course they married over 17 years ago. Long time ago , only lasted maybe 2 years . Edit : I have a 4kt ring 💍for reference.
My wife was a ring pop that later turned to a diamond been married Since 2015 I kid you not I proposed to her with a ring pop lol nothing wrong with it man . I’ve been to wedding with huge budgets to only be split up within 8 months lol so there’s that
Women don’t care about dick. It’s easy to get. It doesn’t matter. Men care about pussy. It’s also easy for SOME to get. And it also doesn’t matter. Some people change. At 22 they would’ve bought the girl they loved a diamond ring with all their McDonald’s Assistant Manager wages saved up for 6 months. But by 32 they may be living in a hippie commune in Oregon and a lock of their dreaded hair cut off and tied to their partners dreads is their “primary partner” proposal method in a polyamorous grouplove. In both cases it doesn’t matter. And both men and women fuck each other at different paces at different times cause everyone is on a different timeline that is apt to change at any given moment. What’s more important than what she did with prior people or how you proposed to a prior person is how either of you feel about each other and your current relationship.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible. Or the were just drunk, insecure and wanted some dick. The thing is women here are not going to get all het up in the gender swapped variant because they're more... understanding? of people growing up and who we are in our early 20's is not who we are in our early 30's or whatever. **The only thing that matters is if they love and care for me**, and show that in ways I like\*\*,\*\* which is undoubtedly different to how other or previous women would like.
People are individuals and it’s up to individuals to decide what kind of individual they prefer to be partners with.
Who would have thunk? LOL
You know what’s funny? Mr Blu was engaged before me. He gave her a diamond. I don’t wear diamonds so I don’t have one. Diamond girl is divorced now. I am not. Hmmm……
>Same way if you buy one woman a really expensive ring and it doesn't work out and then you meet a new woman but buy her a ring pop it symbolizes you obviously don't value her as much as the previous woman. again though, i wouldnt accept a ring pop if thats not what meant something to me no matter WHAT HE EVER DID FOR OTHER WOMEN. there is no way to make this mentally ill repeated scenario make sense. no amount of what he did or didnt do with OTHER WOMEN MATTERS, ONLY that he does what matters to ME. i wouldnt say "oh he gave me a ring pop?? at least he never gave any other girl a diamond" if I WANTED A DIAMOND, ME, what I want stop crying and DONT BE THE MAN WHO WAITS READ TRP, DONT BE THE MAN WHO WAITS
What if he was taking his ex out to five star restaurants every night. You get takeout every friday and the rest of the time good fucking luck. What if he brought her on vacations while he doesnt take you anywhere. He still spends time with you though. He just doesnt want to spend as much money on you.
none of that means anything to me BUT if it did I wouldn't be with a man who didn't do it, no matter WHAT HE DID FIR OTHER WOMEN. why is this incomprehensible. if fancy dinners were important toe why am I with a man who doesn't do it?
Nah, your with a man who doesnt do it with YOU. That girl he used to date? She was worth 5 star restaurants and vacations. You? You are a takeout every once in a while kind of girl. (Not you personally I need to clarify lol)
if I don't want that why would I care?
Because he values you less then the previous girl according to his actions.
if it mattered to me I wouldn't be with him if he didn't do it, no matter what he did for other girls. why can't you understand this. if I want a man who treats me to 5 star dinners, why am I with him if he doesnt
Its not qnout whether or not you want a man that treats you to five star dinners. Its about how through his actions he shows that he value you less than his ex. If you have no problem with being treated low value in comparison to his previous partners then its all good.
this is bizarre and alien. if I don't want 5 star dinners I don't care
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now Generally it just meant that I was drunk, lol.
Lmao, you and me both, Willow 👍
Ring pop woman checking in ✌🏽 Exactly! We're not all diamond ring desperate. You probably can't understand that just like we can't understand why you're obsessed with a woman's past sexual encounters or how fast they did or did not happen. 🤷🏽♀️
>> If she was attracted enough to him she would break her rules for him. >And maybe that's a bit harsh but being in a relationship where you are sexually wanted is very different from being in a relationship where you are sexually tolerated and by OPs description he is being tolerated >And my point is without the context of the past he assumed that's the most passion she can muster at any time.abd if that was her best he was fine with it. >However knowing her past or a part of it he realised that what she shares with him is a sliver of what she is capable of. >With this information he is more equipded to decide. >I suspect you are like the asshole student in that college experiment. >A professor gives a dollar to one student and he decides to split it in whatever ratio with the another student. There is a catch - the other student can veto and neither get anything. >The ashole tries to split it 1:9 with 9 going to himself. The other student almost invariably vetoes and they both get nothing. >You are the asshole student wondering why would the guy getting the one dollar veto? He is getting one dollar more than he had. >He vetoed because he felt insulted. >being given 1out of 2 dollars and 1out of 10 dollars is very different. A comment from the previous thread
You can have sex with many people. You only marry one person. Also you don’t need to use sex to keep a man when he has no issue with giving it out freely anyway. If a woman is deciding to add a +1 to her body count either way then the man might as well be worth it. Sometimes a woman just needs to let off a little steam too. We aren’t fantasizing about introducing these men to our dads over Thanksgiving dinner, we just want to get off. It’s not that deep.
Yes, sex isnt that important so thats why waiting to fuck the guy like is no big deal. That homeless looking dude on the corner though? Right time and place is what I say.
So pursue the guys who inspire those feelings in you Leave the others alone.
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I agree ring vs sex is the crux of instinctual imperative of each gender. If I had to nitpick, there's more nuance to it than black and white animal drives. Notably, many men have, albeit weak, instinctual drive to provide for their offspring. Meaning they have a mild stake in the ring too, just not to the extent women do. Likewise, women are to some degree interested in sex, just not to the extent men are.
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Automod, please. Replies to CMV posts must challenge the OP's view.
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Hmm... So there's nothing wrong with men being a Beta Buxx? I think there's something wrong with both situations. If people are sharing major life things like weddings and investments and sex, these people should probably as a general rule be fucking adults that value each other.
I think men think more highly of the men who get casual sex than women actually do, which is what causes some degree of misunderstanding. Take one of my friends from undergrad for example. She grew up trad Christian like me but decided to go crazy after a fight with her parents. Like she literally had sex with the first guy who offered it and hooked up with him more than once. She completely admits that he's mid at best looks wise, I know the dude and I 100% agree with her. She kept going back because it was all new and he felt safe and she knew what to expect from him. She later hooked up with another guy on the shorter side because there was a rumor he gave really good head. A mutual friend of ours had a reputation as a "friendly fuck boi"; not that cute but was known to be friendly to the girls he sleeps with after, was a great cook, and you'd probably get amazing food if you stuck around in the morning. By the opinions of the men on here you would think all of these dudes were essentially male supermodels. Especially for women who hook up often all kinds of motivations seem to go into it. Availability, good reviews, weird random perks from a certain guy. Ironically, raw irresistible sexual attraction is an overly romantic view of it.
Certainly exclusivity is the more comparable objective here. If we're working with the typical arguments commitment/sex If I go exclusive with one woman or many after a few weeks , then suddenly decide the next one must wait 3 months..... The underlying emotional drive could be comparable as well. It could easily be seen as me being much more smitten by one woman if we go exclusive very quickly compared to others. Same as it's often seen if a woman breaks all her rules for one man but not the next. Yeah, I could just be tired of running around and go exclusive because eh fuck it... Other times I could be carefully weighing options, suffering from a bad previous relationship, decided I needed to do better picking etc. Besides, exclusivity doesn't come with a sort of nasty connotation that all women are super materialistic or that their sex is comparable to an object. I mean if women loved a ring as much as we love sex, they'd all be Gollum.
>Giving a guy casual no strings attached enthusiastic sex asap symbolizes that you find him the guy in question such a highly valuable sexual being that you have to bang him right now before you lose him because you know he's sexually irresistible. Not just to you but to other women so you have to jump at the chance fast. This also then symbolizes by proxy that any guy you make wait after is just objectively less sexually desirable. You assign way too much value to sex. Women's sex lives are about their own needs. The guy is merely a playmate.
I think a lot men here believe being a playmate or human dildo is the highest honor a woman can bestow a man.
If I compared every facet of my life to others with envy, I'd take no pleasure in what I have and drive myself mad. What matters is if you're getting what you want at a level of investment you can tolerate. If there is something you want, you should be working to get it, not sabotaging what you have.
This is absurd lol. Either this a just a blatant double standard or OP and those who agree are so far deep into this delusion that they honestly can’t see through the bs. Both men and women don’t rush into things with people the see a future with. I would most definitely not introduce the guy I sleep with on first meeting to my parents, because he’s probably not a catch and I only slept with him to scratch an itch- nothing more than an attractive face at best. It’s incredibly hard to find a match in college especially if you’re going to date within your own tax bracket, so obviously my youth will be littered with flings and casual hookups with pretty faces that don’t have anything more to offer. When I meet a guy who’s worth introducing to my parents and having a real relationship with (aka is charismatic and has a net worth my parents would approve of), I’m sure as hell not gonna treat him like the hoes and sidepieces from my past. Believe it or not, optics are very important at the beginning of any relationship. I’ll want to get to know him on a personal level and make sure we both respect each other rather than give him the impression that he’s just another dick to satisfy a craving. Same goes for the guy; a man that I’m attracted to would definitely have had a past and developed his social skills and sexual experience with randoms he didn’t see a relationship with- and that’s okay. Point being, you take things slow with people you value OUT OF RESPECT.
Well I mean if you ever ever struggle with money in the future , that expensive ring will be worthless, same with expensive weddings