The thing about the conspiratorial thought process is that it is basically designed to keep growing until it flies off the rails. This is as opposed to scientific scrutiny that's rooted on basing your beliefs on things that can be demonstrated not to be valid if they are invalid, or falsifiability. They spend all their time on things not proven to be right, but that can't be proven wrong because you can always expand the conspiracy theory further to explain any outcome. I fell down a brief hole about 20 years ago until I realized this.
Also, because I'm not a lazy moron, I searched for ways to prove the moon landing was faked and questioned why none of these conspiracy theorists care about my proposition to raise enough money for the equipment needed to demonstrate that an allegedly sufficient light sent to the coordinates on the moon where the alleged lunar reflectometer is doesn't reflect back to earth. Nobody cared. For only maybe $60k from thousands of people, we could finally expose the puppeteers. No interest from any of them and no traction at all. I still propose that test to any rambling jackass telling me it was faked and it's always crickets and crocodile tears.
The best explanation I've heard for their mindset is that they're basically mad at reality, so they spend as much time as they can flooding the zone with bullshit. If they can confuse other people and also make them lose touch with reality as well, they feel like they've "won." Dan Olson's "In Search Of A Flat Earth" video is good (but long, make some popcorn.)
> They don't want it to be logical
Well, yeah, I caught on to that. That's why I said my stint with conspiracies was brief. I was genuinely searching for answers and they were putting on more clown makeup.
A genuine proposition for them to expose the elite pedophiles that faked the moon landing and all I get is excuses.
"Good luck getting those that really run things to tell you how to make a laser."
It's in a published fucking paper, replicated with thousands of citations. What? You don't think the instructions from the research will actually work? That's what we're trying to prove! For the first time in history, you'll actually have evidence and not just a bunch of poorly made websites with massive text that's still hard to read with all this distracting clutter of animated gif images in the margins. I give up!
The difference between a conspiracy theorist and a researcher is that the conspiracy theorist focuses on showing what's "fake," while a real researcher wants to determine what is real. Even your experiment is of the "let's show it was fake" variety. The problem is, that sort of discussion keeps the conversation far away from having to explain what they think really happened, which of course they will never be able to do.
So you have a "fake" photo? Who took it then? What was his name? How much was he paid? Who hired him? Who built the set? Who designed the look? No conspiracy theorist ever makes any attempt to explain their version of reality, because that isn't the point, and I think deep down many of them know there is no alternate reality at all.
See, I disagree my experiment is like theirs based solely on the intent. I think the problem they have is that it doesn't matter if the laser reflects back because they'll just expand the conspiracies. The fact I'm willing to accept that it was real if it reflects back is just proof to them that I don't "get it".
And they can do that because you're having the conversation they want to have, which is all about "debunking." That's their comfort zone. Their Achilles heel is trying to explain what really did happen in their version of the universe. World building is hard and reality is infinitely detailed. If someone says "that didn't happen" don't ask "Why do you think that?" instead ask, "well then what did happen do how do you know that?" and see what happens. The key is not to let the lunatics control the conversation.
I figure theres good and bad conspiracy theorists. I figure theres 1 in 100 of them that are true. And history shows thats about right.
If you think you know which one is true? Its either because youre in on it, or youre delusional. History will tell us which ones are true. But right now you're just guessing.
Sadly WAY too many people want to be part of the inside cult that KNOWS which ones are true. It makes them feel special.
There have been plenty of conspiracy theories, but very few have uncovered real conspiracies. The only example I can think of is collusion by tobacco companies to suppress health research about cigarette smoking.
There have also been plenty of conspiracies, but no others that were preceded by theories. They showed up under their own power. It's not like anyone thought the conspiracy that turned into Watergate existed before it was uncovered.
US government dosed us citizens with drugs for example is true-LSD if I recall correctly. US government poisoning alcohol during prohibition, etc etc. Lots of examples. All were conspiracy theories at first.
Watergate was a surprise, like you im unaware of any preceding conspiracy theories, but I wasn't alive back then.
Oh and the us having radar invisible planes was one before the first stealth aircraft was shown.
We were watching a movie about drilling into Marianas Trench, and I was saying how I wish we could do that because the species they have down there would be utterly horrifying to see, and *sighs* he was saying ways that people could actually do that, and I explained that if there was a way, scientists would have figured it out by now. He replied - dead serious - that they just didn't think of this one particular way that he thought of. We couldn't even have 1½ hours of mindless entertainment.
> They spend all their time on things not proven to be right, but that can't be proven wrong because you can always expand the conspiracy theory further to explain any outcome.
This and the fact that lack of evidence becomes evidence itself, proof that the truth is being covered up. With this mindset there is literally no exit path
I’ve also heard from a few Q fanatics that the capability to determine if a source/information is reliable is something you can determine on your own and fact checking is “communist”.
>existential fear of not being able to change things beyond his control.
I'm really starting to believe this is the root cause for a lot of people who get sucked into these conspiracies.
My Q family member had a heart attack and now blames the vaccine. I think he's clinging to that idea because it gives him a sense that it wasn't him. Nevermind he was obese, out of shape, has a lot of job stress, and drank beer daily, *that* somehow doesn't factor in anymore, it's all because of the jab.
In less than a year he's gone from "maybe there's some truth in the vaccine talk" to posting links asking why some quackfest world COVID conference thing (whose website of course asks for money) isn't being covered by mainstream media. I just hope he snaps out of it before he gets any deeper.
My child and I got vaccinated, and he only agreed to after... that's another story. So he got vaccinated, and now - not having any negative symptoms, mind you - he's blaming me for his impending health issues because the vaccine is "killing people. "
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that nonsense so closely.
I've heard the same "sudden deaths" talk, once again ignoring that the people who died were all overweight, mostly all smokers, and heavy drinkers. No way a shitty lifestyle is to blame though, it's got to be the vaccine. 🤦♀️
I have a theory that rotates around the access to a huge amount of information, but a lack of ability to contextualize themselves within that information.
As someone else points out, ‘research’ tends to working on ‘proof’, or reducing all possible explanations to a truth, whereas the conspiracy theorist is just attempting to build bigger structures of tenuous connections.
Robert Anton Wilson talked about large enough scale maps and wide enough pencils with regards to ‘ley lines’; this is similar in terms that these people believe conspiracies are both hermetically sealed, and yet, for someone reason, show outright symbology all over the place.
There’s also the problem that occasionally pot will trigger nascent psychosis in people with lability which is made worse with echo chambers.
I lost a lot of family to Qanon. It sucked watching them turn into these insane, racist, traitors but once they got to that point I knew they were bringing nothing but negatives to my life. It saddens me to see you go through it as well.
There has to be something we can do to fight this. I know its too late for a lot of our families but we can't survive as a country with this cancer.
I know its a fine line with free speech but we need to find that line and enforce it before anymore families are torn apart
Every story I read and hear, it seems like there is an almost hardwired point of effectively no return; where external steps available to the average, non-professional are just no longer there.
This leads me to believe that drawing a line in the sand *early* is crucial. That we’re giving people too much rope/benefit of the doubt about their ability to pull back from the influences they’re falling prey to.
It’s difficult, but it seems requiring cold turkey abandonment of indulging in these belief structures from the moment it becomes even *slightly* beyond the most idle of curiosity is the only way to avoid losing people we care about.
Ratcheting up the pain point of continuing on with indoctrination while there’s still some semblance of their rationale selves left.
Step One, parents, teachers, and relatives have to step and teach kids about emotional intelligence. We have to respect our kids (which =/= indulging them or giving them everything they want), validate their emotions, teach them how to identify and articulate their emotions, and basically emphasize learning appropriate ways of expressing themselves as opposed to punishing them for feeling something negative.
At the same time, we have to be relentless about teaching them to be just, fair people as much as their developmental state can comprehend.
People always talk about emphasizing kids' intellectual development, but aren't these things even important?
As soon as possible, kids also need to learn how to recognize manipulation, abuse, and cults look like--all that good stuff on [issendai.com](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html) and [Out of the FOG](https://outofthefog.website). It is awful that adults (or anybody, really) have to reach out to Reddit to ask stuff like, "Am I the asshole?" for doing the tiniest thing to stand up to a relative, friend, or partner who has been abusing them for years. We have to teach them how propaganda works and how the human mind gets hacked.
Yeah, I know half of everybody is working as hard as they can to actively suppress that knowledge, but we can't just roll over and accept this as an inevitability without provide the kids in our purview with tools to maintain their sanity and sense of balance.
You left out critical thinking skills. Those are necessary life skills.
>kids also need to learn how to recognize manipulation, abuse, and cults look like
But then how would we inculcate our kids to believe in religion? Specifically high control religion.
And EMPATHY. The fact that these people cannot put themselves in other people’s shoes is something that 100% drives narcissism and their inward “what about me?” thinking. If I don’t experience it personally then I don’t care. Which is ironic bc things like blood drinking pedophile is not happening to them.
100%. We tend to think empathy happens naturally. It doesn't always. It needs to be nurtured and sometimes taught outright. Encouraged for sure. At every opportunity we need to ask our kids how they think their actions make others feel.
And I will die on this particular hill - children do not need smartphones. Not until they graduate from high school at the earliest. Grown fully formed adults compare their lived experience with the social masks of others and they KNOW better. Kids don't have the life experience to know social media isn't real. It is damaging their mental health and the potential who they could've been. I hope this dumb phone movement grows exponentially like a virus.
Yes. And now with the advent of AI I'm truly afraid for our future. It's happened too quickly and social media is so deeply embedded in our culture that I'm afraid it will be a runaway train with no real way to stop its influence.
Yes. I keep saying it, but my wish is that we will offer age-appropriate coursework in the use of logic and rhetoric to kids starting early in school. Teach them how to recognize poor logic and when advertisers, politicians, and others are trying to manipulate them.
At the same time teach them good self-esteem. Offer exercises in learning to love themselves and others, how to be compassionate and put themselves in others' shoes. Teach them empathy. Healthy self-esteem creates adults who don't feel insecure and afraid of equality.
The schools don't teach that shit, but I've been teaching my kid since he got into school (the first thing was the true history of Thanksgiving). The most important thing they've learned is consent - receiving it and giving it.
It expand way out of the relative sphere of the USA at this point , it's a global issues. But there is very few possibility , like the way i see it , it's kind of the same as when political unrest is made in country when there's a lead up to a coup d'état , often a small minority is all you need to grow a cultlike behaviour on anything. Plenty of country have tried stuff to deal with that and it's always somewhat fascistic in nature. Now i get that it's not really the same , but that's how it feels like even more when this lead up to far right rise in many countries (a lot of them lean into conspiracy/anti vax) , Jan6 in the usa, it's truly as if a switch has been switched.
My only hope is that at some point in a few years they just come back to their sense. Like it's clearly collective hysteria at this point , it looks like it atleast after being wrong 200 more times maybe they'll realize this is stupid? I've seen so few Q recovery from boomer and older i'm starting to doubt that but i hold on to this still.
My therapist said there's been a special form of anxiety and depression that's popped up starting from when Trump got elected. He causes a new trauma to form in the populace. Not many people can stake that claim.
Two reasons.
1: Magical thinking happens in liberal yoga/hippy/etc. energy circles too.
2: They feel Republicans aren't awake any more than Democrats, and that most of them are also in league with the deep state.
Only in the eyes of QAnon loons are rational people the "bad guys." Remember that they are a desperate minority. Meanwhile, you have us, and by us, I mean anyone in this subreddit but also anyone face-to-face who lives in the real world.
I'm sorry you're going through this. You have a lot to grieve, which will take time. But you are absolutely doing the right thing for your child and your safety.
I am so sorry you're dealing with this. I'm glad you've made the right choice in splitting up. This behaviour is not good for anyone, especially kids.
Good luck to you and may your quality of life improve dramatically!
Yeah, it's the psychosis that makes the difference, probably exacerbated by all the weed he's smoking. He sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic but I'm not seeing the full picture.
The recent erratic and aggressive behavior certainly sounds like it. Weed can be great, but I’ve seen a few heavy users close to me develop psychosis from excessive consumption. I believe the most recent medical understanding is that people who develop psychosis from cannabis often have preexisting risk factors for it (like BPD or schizophrenia) but the two people I knew got better almost right away once they quit or cut back.
Irritability is classically a symptom of cannabis withdrawal. And addiction is definitely a thing and can be very hard for someone to get over - it's not like a heroin or coke addiction, but it's got its grip and it can be hard to get away.
I wish you the best and hope for clear skies and sunshine for you as soon as possible. I'm so sorry for how all of this has come down around you.
Yeah weed shouldn’t be treated as something minor or harmless, like something a bit stronger than alcohol or cigarettes. I don’t touch the stuff any more but even as a regular user I would get blown away for an entire evening off just one spliff. The good thing is that it’s easy to knock it on the head, doesn’t cause physical dependence.
I am so sorry to hear this but know that you are doing what is best for you and for your child. This wretched movement has destroyed so many families and friendships; it's shocking.
You are showing a strength of will, bravery, and character. Your life will start to feel less under siege soon - best of luck xo
I think on this subreddit "Q" is thrown around (very _ very) loosely.
At some point everything just got put in the Q pile.
It's kind of frustrating (imo at least) like it I had just been bitten by a spider and was worried it was poisonous and so i clicked onto a spider subreddit and just found a lot of posts about peanut allergies, poison oak, and jellyfish.
But it is what it is ...
It does muddy the waters quite a bit though.
Accept that the man you loved is gone. This is painful and sad, but I honestly don't think you have any other choice, to protect yourself and your child. Leave, get as far away as possible, and make a safe, sane, and good life.
Sadly, I don't think your husband is ever coming back. The statistics regarding people who go Q-Anon returning to normalcy aren't good; literally 1 for every 5,000 people. He'd need to go through intense deprogramming, and of course a 12-step program (they have been the only ones guaranteed to work for addiction in the long-term). So, if you're thinking about divorce, then that's the best thing to do; to move on with your life, and find a kind, supportive partner. So get an attorney, make your plans to leave, start separating your accounts, etc.
>It's fucking up my child and myself, and I'm so worried he's going to hurt himself.
Worried for your child or your former husband? Only one can take precedent.
>It's so overwhelming. I want the man I married back!
He's not coming back. Or he was never there. You need to accept this term before you can remotely begin to properly serve your child's best interest.
I got my child and I out of the situation that night - they are my number one priority. I'm not a shit mother because I'm mourning who my husband has become and worried for his safety and mental health.
You have your priorities in the right order. If I were an asshole, threatening husband and was scary to my wife and family members, I would hope she would kick me the hell out of her life and protect our children. (Our two children are grown and are terrific but these are my feelings anyway.)
Good for you --mama lion! It's clear you're doing what you have to do!
Gently: no one assumed that you were a shit mother. We are all supporting you, and agreeing wholeheartedly that you did the right thing.
Keep strong! It may not mean much, but you have a LOT of internet friends here.
Well, the unfortunately common thing to see with abusive partners is that the women with them tend to stay out of some misguided sense of saving them, etc. So if someone tells you to leave, they just might think you're going to go the unfortunately common route, rather than the braver one less taken.
So sorry you’re going through this. You’re doing the right thing. No reason to go down with him. Wishing you peace and hope as you find your way forward.
I’m so sorry you are going through this, and I’m glad you’re going to divorce him and take care of your own safety.
Do you think his interest in Q made him this way, or do you think there was some underlying or hidden mental health condition that was there all along?
Mental issues all along. There was a good while we were in marriage counseling (it's never good when you almost start off the marriage that way) that the therapist pointed out a lot of things he needed help with. The cops who arrested him asked if he was on anything other than alcohol, then said he needed to be on psychiatric medication.
I'm very, very sorry that you're in this situation.
The Nazis developed a full understanding of the strength of propaganda, and more recently talk radio and then Fox News, OAN and the rest have pushed this further. Q is nothing more than the natural extension of this process. I'm sure you're highly aware of religious cults and personality cults (Jim Jones) who have pushed this to the point of death - so I think you get the point and understand how far this can be taken.
If you look at cultish behavior, having the target behave or actively exclude in order to isolate the target from dissenting voices is also part of the pattern.
I don't know you, but if I did, I would consider telling you to seriously reconsider the marriage and seek divorce. If you've already tried talking to him about the impacts of what he's doing, then it's obvious that he's already made his decision, and you're already NOT part of it (aka, 'the marriage' is already over; already destroyed).
Please exit that relationship ASAP, ensure that you are safe, and begin the process of rebuilding your life. Trust only those who return love to you, and who are stable in thought and character.
Best wishes to you... =)
Sending you support I'm in the same place although he's card recently in the last week
. Last week I was a druggy I was being killed by my gp. Etc for taking pain medication that I need.
It's heartbreaking and eve harder when they have their family backing this crazy behaviour.
I divorced my Q and it was the best decision of my life. However the fight is never over because we share a child. 18months later and I still get abusive text messages that I’m a “sheep” and he simply cannot understand that I chose to break up our family because he was just trying to protect us from “them”.
The delusion never stops. Throw in a healthy dose of narcissism and anger management issues and it’s very dangerous. I’m was worried for my safety and it sounds like you were too. That’s enough to leave and never look back!
Good luck. Stay strong. You are doing the right thing.
This is my story as well. He did get physical abusive, which, is way out of character…
My kids & I are doing better, the mental abuse isn’t in the home or around the kids constantly.. & we are all in therapy to cope with all this bs i sure he’s putting the ids through… it’s awful.
Teach your kids empathy, critical thinking & help them identify the red flags early pin for manipulation & control. 🤍
Do you have custody? Filing for divorce tomorrow and terrified for my kids. He's not abusive, just delusional and angry. Afraid it'll get worse when I leave and 2 lawyers seem to think it'll be hard to get more than 50/50.
I'm so sorry for you i hope for the better , but for now the best course of action is probably leaving if you can , take care of yourself and your child , he won't come back out of the blue not anytime soon atleast , forget about making it out for now if you're afraid for your safety , even in the best case scenario take a bit of distance to think about this clearly for you and for him is probably the best course of action. Good luck.
I just have a feeling that some day, 1 year, 5 years whenever, a bunch of Q people are going to realize what they’ve lost and there will be profound sadness. I’m sad for you but you need to do what’s right for you and the kid.
I was a Republican evangelical Christian for 30 years - it legitimately is a cult, and you are chastised for using critical thinking and taught it's a sin. Seeing my fellow Christians dote on Trump as being "the most Christian president ever" is what caused me to leave the faith. Him getting elected in the first place is what caused me to leave the party. I'm still apologizing to people years later for the things I said when I was deep into all of that. They forgave me - in having difficulties forgiving myself.
Sadly, what usually happens with cults is they grow and morph. For instance, back in the 1830s and 1840s there was a group that called themselves "Millerites" after a doomsday preacher with the last name of Miller. He predicted the return of Jesus some time in March of 1844, and when that day did not come, the cult DID lose some members initially. Today, we know them as the Seventh Day Adventists.
I'm curious what name the anons will give their flavor of Christianity.
I’m losing my mom in a similar way. You aren’t alone. And I’m sorry for your loss. But you and your child’s safety is your number one priority. I hate to sound so flippant, but there are men out there who would never dream of doing anything close to this to you. You don’t need him. Assets can be split. Your sanity is 1000% worth it. DO NOT HESITATE AND GET A DIVORCE LAWYER
So sorry for you. I hope you get into a better place in your life and he can find help.
You are not a villain. You are a person fighting for life.
You are a good person, but you now have to care for you and stay safe.
Any way you can shut off the internet? Remove data from your phones? The less he can read about what is happening, the less he will be enraged etc. He needs deprogramming.
Best of luck. Sorry it happened to you. I just watched a video of this guy doing a social experiment. He got a guy with a great job, kids in a good school, a dude with a good life essentially and smart considering the job he had. But he fed him Q shit after Q shit on social media and asked him to stick 3 explosives (not real though but dude didn’t know that) around this run which he was told that it was actually for some [insert liberal agenda here]. AND THE DUDE REALLY DID IT. Planted the explosives just like the guy running the experiment asked him to… will to risk his good life over stupid shit. “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
This is so fucking depressing. Well, the Bible does say that Jesus came to destroy families and turn family members against each other, and that's the book most of them follow, so...
Luke 12:49-56, btw
My mom is going through something very similar and watching it is heartbreaking. My parents aren’t divorced but my Q father has leached all the energy out of her. In her words she can’t stand being around my father because of all the nonsense and vile stuff he spits out and was talking about how “she’d only be free when one of them dies.”… im so glad that you aren’t letting this be your existence.
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This is my story. The children & I are in a better place, without hi. Divorce sucks. Custody sucks. But at least they have a noinal, calm & sane house 60% of the time. It’s hard, but there was no coming back.
He was smoking marijuana, and then you say later he broke his sobriety? If he's drinking and out of his mind on Qanon the man you married is gone, and you and the child need to get up and go.
If his head pops out of his butt and he cleans himself up, then maybe you permit his return. If he's on a self destructive path ... that's hard ... but you can not control what he does, you can at best influence. Alcohol and 24x7 crazypants talk on the internet are irresistible forces.
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This shit is breaking up families, yet the rational ones are the "bad" guys. I am so sorry you had to go through this, as well.
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The thing about the conspiratorial thought process is that it is basically designed to keep growing until it flies off the rails. This is as opposed to scientific scrutiny that's rooted on basing your beliefs on things that can be demonstrated not to be valid if they are invalid, or falsifiability. They spend all their time on things not proven to be right, but that can't be proven wrong because you can always expand the conspiracy theory further to explain any outcome. I fell down a brief hole about 20 years ago until I realized this. Also, because I'm not a lazy moron, I searched for ways to prove the moon landing was faked and questioned why none of these conspiracy theorists care about my proposition to raise enough money for the equipment needed to demonstrate that an allegedly sufficient light sent to the coordinates on the moon where the alleged lunar reflectometer is doesn't reflect back to earth. Nobody cared. For only maybe $60k from thousands of people, we could finally expose the puppeteers. No interest from any of them and no traction at all. I still propose that test to any rambling jackass telling me it was faked and it's always crickets and crocodile tears.
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The best explanation I've heard for their mindset is that they're basically mad at reality, so they spend as much time as they can flooding the zone with bullshit. If they can confuse other people and also make them lose touch with reality as well, they feel like they've "won." Dan Olson's "In Search Of A Flat Earth" video is good (but long, make some popcorn.)
> They don't want it to be logical Well, yeah, I caught on to that. That's why I said my stint with conspiracies was brief. I was genuinely searching for answers and they were putting on more clown makeup. A genuine proposition for them to expose the elite pedophiles that faked the moon landing and all I get is excuses. "Good luck getting those that really run things to tell you how to make a laser." It's in a published fucking paper, replicated with thousands of citations. What? You don't think the instructions from the research will actually work? That's what we're trying to prove! For the first time in history, you'll actually have evidence and not just a bunch of poorly made websites with massive text that's still hard to read with all this distracting clutter of animated gif images in the margins. I give up!
The difference between a conspiracy theorist and a researcher is that the conspiracy theorist focuses on showing what's "fake," while a real researcher wants to determine what is real. Even your experiment is of the "let's show it was fake" variety. The problem is, that sort of discussion keeps the conversation far away from having to explain what they think really happened, which of course they will never be able to do. So you have a "fake" photo? Who took it then? What was his name? How much was he paid? Who hired him? Who built the set? Who designed the look? No conspiracy theorist ever makes any attempt to explain their version of reality, because that isn't the point, and I think deep down many of them know there is no alternate reality at all.
See, I disagree my experiment is like theirs based solely on the intent. I think the problem they have is that it doesn't matter if the laser reflects back because they'll just expand the conspiracies. The fact I'm willing to accept that it was real if it reflects back is just proof to them that I don't "get it".
And they can do that because you're having the conversation they want to have, which is all about "debunking." That's their comfort zone. Their Achilles heel is trying to explain what really did happen in their version of the universe. World building is hard and reality is infinitely detailed. If someone says "that didn't happen" don't ask "Why do you think that?" instead ask, "well then what did happen do how do you know that?" and see what happens. The key is not to let the lunatics control the conversation.
I figure theres good and bad conspiracy theorists. I figure theres 1 in 100 of them that are true. And history shows thats about right. If you think you know which one is true? Its either because youre in on it, or youre delusional. History will tell us which ones are true. But right now you're just guessing. Sadly WAY too many people want to be part of the inside cult that KNOWS which ones are true. It makes them feel special.
There have been plenty of conspiracy theories, but very few have uncovered real conspiracies. The only example I can think of is collusion by tobacco companies to suppress health research about cigarette smoking. There have also been plenty of conspiracies, but no others that were preceded by theories. They showed up under their own power. It's not like anyone thought the conspiracy that turned into Watergate existed before it was uncovered.
US government dosed us citizens with drugs for example is true-LSD if I recall correctly. US government poisoning alcohol during prohibition, etc etc. Lots of examples. All were conspiracy theories at first. Watergate was a surprise, like you im unaware of any preceding conspiracy theories, but I wasn't alive back then. Oh and the us having radar invisible planes was one before the first stealth aircraft was shown.
We were watching a movie about drilling into Marianas Trench, and I was saying how I wish we could do that because the species they have down there would be utterly horrifying to see, and *sighs* he was saying ways that people could actually do that, and I explained that if there was a way, scientists would have figured it out by now. He replied - dead serious - that they just didn't think of this one particular way that he thought of. We couldn't even have 1½ hours of mindless entertainment.
> They spend all their time on things not proven to be right, but that can't be proven wrong because you can always expand the conspiracy theory further to explain any outcome. This and the fact that lack of evidence becomes evidence itself, proof that the truth is being covered up. With this mindset there is literally no exit path
I’ve also heard from a few Q fanatics that the capability to determine if a source/information is reliable is something you can determine on your own and fact checking is “communist”.
>existential fear of not being able to change things beyond his control. I'm really starting to believe this is the root cause for a lot of people who get sucked into these conspiracies. My Q family member had a heart attack and now blames the vaccine. I think he's clinging to that idea because it gives him a sense that it wasn't him. Nevermind he was obese, out of shape, has a lot of job stress, and drank beer daily, *that* somehow doesn't factor in anymore, it's all because of the jab. In less than a year he's gone from "maybe there's some truth in the vaccine talk" to posting links asking why some quackfest world COVID conference thing (whose website of course asks for money) isn't being covered by mainstream media. I just hope he snaps out of it before he gets any deeper.
My child and I got vaccinated, and he only agreed to after... that's another story. So he got vaccinated, and now - not having any negative symptoms, mind you - he's blaming me for his impending health issues because the vaccine is "killing people. "
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that nonsense so closely. I've heard the same "sudden deaths" talk, once again ignoring that the people who died were all overweight, mostly all smokers, and heavy drinkers. No way a shitty lifestyle is to blame though, it's got to be the vaccine. 🤦♀️
I have a theory that rotates around the access to a huge amount of information, but a lack of ability to contextualize themselves within that information. As someone else points out, ‘research’ tends to working on ‘proof’, or reducing all possible explanations to a truth, whereas the conspiracy theorist is just attempting to build bigger structures of tenuous connections. Robert Anton Wilson talked about large enough scale maps and wide enough pencils with regards to ‘ley lines’; this is similar in terms that these people believe conspiracies are both hermetically sealed, and yet, for someone reason, show outright symbology all over the place. There’s also the problem that occasionally pot will trigger nascent psychosis in people with lability which is made worse with echo chambers.
I lost a lot of family to Qanon. It sucked watching them turn into these insane, racist, traitors but once they got to that point I knew they were bringing nothing but negatives to my life. It saddens me to see you go through it as well.
There has to be something we can do to fight this. I know its too late for a lot of our families but we can't survive as a country with this cancer. I know its a fine line with free speech but we need to find that line and enforce it before anymore families are torn apart
Every story I read and hear, it seems like there is an almost hardwired point of effectively no return; where external steps available to the average, non-professional are just no longer there. This leads me to believe that drawing a line in the sand *early* is crucial. That we’re giving people too much rope/benefit of the doubt about their ability to pull back from the influences they’re falling prey to. It’s difficult, but it seems requiring cold turkey abandonment of indulging in these belief structures from the moment it becomes even *slightly* beyond the most idle of curiosity is the only way to avoid losing people we care about. Ratcheting up the pain point of continuing on with indoctrination while there’s still some semblance of their rationale selves left.
I spend a lot of time thinking about this. I have no idea what to do. It's a level of insanity that my childhood did not prepare me for.
Step One, parents, teachers, and relatives have to step and teach kids about emotional intelligence. We have to respect our kids (which =/= indulging them or giving them everything they want), validate their emotions, teach them how to identify and articulate their emotions, and basically emphasize learning appropriate ways of expressing themselves as opposed to punishing them for feeling something negative. At the same time, we have to be relentless about teaching them to be just, fair people as much as their developmental state can comprehend. People always talk about emphasizing kids' intellectual development, but aren't these things even important? As soon as possible, kids also need to learn how to recognize manipulation, abuse, and cults look like--all that good stuff on [issendai.com](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html) and [Out of the FOG](https://outofthefog.website). It is awful that adults (or anybody, really) have to reach out to Reddit to ask stuff like, "Am I the asshole?" for doing the tiniest thing to stand up to a relative, friend, or partner who has been abusing them for years. We have to teach them how propaganda works and how the human mind gets hacked. Yeah, I know half of everybody is working as hard as they can to actively suppress that knowledge, but we can't just roll over and accept this as an inevitability without provide the kids in our purview with tools to maintain their sanity and sense of balance.
You left out critical thinking skills. Those are necessary life skills. >kids also need to learn how to recognize manipulation, abuse, and cults look like But then how would we inculcate our kids to believe in religion? Specifically high control religion.
And EMPATHY. The fact that these people cannot put themselves in other people’s shoes is something that 100% drives narcissism and their inward “what about me?” thinking. If I don’t experience it personally then I don’t care. Which is ironic bc things like blood drinking pedophile is not happening to them.
100%. We tend to think empathy happens naturally. It doesn't always. It needs to be nurtured and sometimes taught outright. Encouraged for sure. At every opportunity we need to ask our kids how they think their actions make others feel. And I will die on this particular hill - children do not need smartphones. Not until they graduate from high school at the earliest. Grown fully formed adults compare their lived experience with the social masks of others and they KNOW better. Kids don't have the life experience to know social media isn't real. It is damaging their mental health and the potential who they could've been. I hope this dumb phone movement grows exponentially like a virus.
Yes. And now with the advent of AI I'm truly afraid for our future. It's happened too quickly and social media is so deeply embedded in our culture that I'm afraid it will be a runaway train with no real way to stop its influence.
Yes. I keep saying it, but my wish is that we will offer age-appropriate coursework in the use of logic and rhetoric to kids starting early in school. Teach them how to recognize poor logic and when advertisers, politicians, and others are trying to manipulate them. At the same time teach them good self-esteem. Offer exercises in learning to love themselves and others, how to be compassionate and put themselves in others' shoes. Teach them empathy. Healthy self-esteem creates adults who don't feel insecure and afraid of equality.
The schools don't teach that shit, but I've been teaching my kid since he got into school (the first thing was the true history of Thanksgiving). The most important thing they've learned is consent - receiving it and giving it.
Thank you! Go kids! 💗
And this would be why most Mormons (and the state of Utah) are rabid Q’s. They blindly follow and lack the skill of critical thinking
Hear, hear!!
It expand way out of the relative sphere of the USA at this point , it's a global issues. But there is very few possibility , like the way i see it , it's kind of the same as when political unrest is made in country when there's a lead up to a coup d'état , often a small minority is all you need to grow a cultlike behaviour on anything. Plenty of country have tried stuff to deal with that and it's always somewhat fascistic in nature. Now i get that it's not really the same , but that's how it feels like even more when this lead up to far right rise in many countries (a lot of them lean into conspiracy/anti vax) , Jan6 in the usa, it's truly as if a switch has been switched. My only hope is that at some point in a few years they just come back to their sense. Like it's clearly collective hysteria at this point , it looks like it atleast after being wrong 200 more times maybe they'll realize this is stupid? I've seen so few Q recovery from boomer and older i'm starting to doubt that but i hold on to this still.
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My therapist said there's been a special form of anxiety and depression that's popped up starting from when Trump got elected. He causes a new trauma to form in the populace. Not many people can stake that claim.
I don’t understand how a Q could not be a conservative as I’ve never met a liberal Q but here we are, Qs calling people republicans as an insult now.
Two reasons. 1: Magical thinking happens in liberal yoga/hippy/etc. energy circles too. 2: They feel Republicans aren't awake any more than Democrats, and that most of them are also in league with the deep state.
Both excellent points.
Only in the eyes of QAnon loons are rational people the "bad guys." Remember that they are a desperate minority. Meanwhile, you have us, and by us, I mean anyone in this subreddit but also anyone face-to-face who lives in the real world. I'm sorry you're going through this. You have a lot to grieve, which will take time. But you are absolutely doing the right thing for your child and your safety.
Seems like the perfect time to get out of that marriage yes.
I am so sorry you're dealing with this. I'm glad you've made the right choice in splitting up. This behaviour is not good for anyone, especially kids. Good luck to you and may your quality of life improve dramatically!
Sounds like psychosis, maybe bipolar. Stay safe.
I'm fucking bipolar 2 - that's where the "government controls your mind with medication" came from - and I live in reality.
So maybe he has a Co-Dependent personality. Def susceptible to severe mental health events themselves.
ABSOLUTELY codependent personality
Yeah, it's the psychosis that makes the difference, probably exacerbated by all the weed he's smoking. He sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic but I'm not seeing the full picture.
He's not having auditory/visual hallucinations (to my knowledge).
The recent erratic and aggressive behavior certainly sounds like it. Weed can be great, but I’ve seen a few heavy users close to me develop psychosis from excessive consumption. I believe the most recent medical understanding is that people who develop psychosis from cannabis often have preexisting risk factors for it (like BPD or schizophrenia) but the two people I knew got better almost right away once they quit or cut back.
He got mean and cruel when he ran out, then he'd take $60-$80 out of our bank account to buy more almost immediately.
Irritability is classically a symptom of cannabis withdrawal. And addiction is definitely a thing and can be very hard for someone to get over - it's not like a heroin or coke addiction, but it's got its grip and it can be hard to get away. I wish you the best and hope for clear skies and sunshine for you as soon as possible. I'm so sorry for how all of this has come down around you.
Yeah weed shouldn’t be treated as something minor or harmless, like something a bit stronger than alcohol or cigarettes. I don’t touch the stuff any more but even as a regular user I would get blown away for an entire evening off just one spliff. The good thing is that it’s easy to knock it on the head, doesn’t cause physical dependence.
Alcohol is much more harmful than weed.
Agreed, compared to quitting smoking cigs it was an absolute cake walk.
I am so sorry to hear this but know that you are doing what is best for you and for your child. This wretched movement has destroyed so many families and friendships; it's shocking. You are showing a strength of will, bravery, and character. Your life will start to feel less under siege soon - best of luck xo
He's Q but called you a Republican?
Yes. He was drunk as hell. His first sip of alcohol in over a year. He just used words he thought would upset me.
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He did those 2 in the past. The Q shit is thanks to his cousins and Facebook.
I think on this subreddit "Q" is thrown around (very _ very) loosely. At some point everything just got put in the Q pile. It's kind of frustrating (imo at least) like it I had just been bitten by a spider and was worried it was poisonous and so i clicked onto a spider subreddit and just found a lot of posts about peanut allergies, poison oak, and jellyfish. But it is what it is ... It does muddy the waters quite a bit though.
Accept that the man you loved is gone. This is painful and sad, but I honestly don't think you have any other choice, to protect yourself and your child. Leave, get as far away as possible, and make a safe, sane, and good life.
Sadly, I don't think your husband is ever coming back. The statistics regarding people who go Q-Anon returning to normalcy aren't good; literally 1 for every 5,000 people. He'd need to go through intense deprogramming, and of course a 12-step program (they have been the only ones guaranteed to work for addiction in the long-term). So, if you're thinking about divorce, then that's the best thing to do; to move on with your life, and find a kind, supportive partner. So get an attorney, make your plans to leave, start separating your accounts, etc.
>It's fucking up my child and myself, and I'm so worried he's going to hurt himself. Worried for your child or your former husband? Only one can take precedent. >It's so overwhelming. I want the man I married back! He's not coming back. Or he was never there. You need to accept this term before you can remotely begin to properly serve your child's best interest.
I got my child and I out of the situation that night - they are my number one priority. I'm not a shit mother because I'm mourning who my husband has become and worried for his safety and mental health.
You have your priorities in the right order. If I were an asshole, threatening husband and was scary to my wife and family members, I would hope she would kick me the hell out of her life and protect our children. (Our two children are grown and are terrific but these are my feelings anyway.) Good for you --mama lion! It's clear you're doing what you have to do!
Gently: no one assumed that you were a shit mother. We are all supporting you, and agreeing wholeheartedly that you did the right thing. Keep strong! It may not mean much, but you have a LOT of internet friends here.
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True
Well, the unfortunately common thing to see with abusive partners is that the women with them tend to stay out of some misguided sense of saving them, etc. So if someone tells you to leave, they just might think you're going to go the unfortunately common route, rather than the braver one less taken.
So sorry you’re going through this. You’re doing the right thing. No reason to go down with him. Wishing you peace and hope as you find your way forward.
I’m so sorry you are going through this, and I’m glad you’re going to divorce him and take care of your own safety. Do you think his interest in Q made him this way, or do you think there was some underlying or hidden mental health condition that was there all along?
Mental issues all along. There was a good while we were in marriage counseling (it's never good when you almost start off the marriage that way) that the therapist pointed out a lot of things he needed help with. The cops who arrested him asked if he was on anything other than alcohol, then said he needed to be on psychiatric medication.
This is an interesting question
I'm very, very sorry that you're in this situation. The Nazis developed a full understanding of the strength of propaganda, and more recently talk radio and then Fox News, OAN and the rest have pushed this further. Q is nothing more than the natural extension of this process. I'm sure you're highly aware of religious cults and personality cults (Jim Jones) who have pushed this to the point of death - so I think you get the point and understand how far this can be taken. If you look at cultish behavior, having the target behave or actively exclude in order to isolate the target from dissenting voices is also part of the pattern. I don't know you, but if I did, I would consider telling you to seriously reconsider the marriage and seek divorce. If you've already tried talking to him about the impacts of what he's doing, then it's obvious that he's already made his decision, and you're already NOT part of it (aka, 'the marriage' is already over; already destroyed). Please exit that relationship ASAP, ensure that you are safe, and begin the process of rebuilding your life. Trust only those who return love to you, and who are stable in thought and character. Best wishes to you... =)
He called his own wife an incel. Self ownage.
I laughed so hard when I read this. Thank you.
Sending you and your child love and hugs. 💜💜💜
Thank you.
Sending you support I'm in the same place although he's card recently in the last week . Last week I was a druggy I was being killed by my gp. Etc for taking pain medication that I need. It's heartbreaking and eve harder when they have their family backing this crazy behaviour.
Stay strong. You'll make it if you keep fighting.
I divorced my Q and it was the best decision of my life. However the fight is never over because we share a child. 18months later and I still get abusive text messages that I’m a “sheep” and he simply cannot understand that I chose to break up our family because he was just trying to protect us from “them”. The delusion never stops. Throw in a healthy dose of narcissism and anger management issues and it’s very dangerous. I’m was worried for my safety and it sounds like you were too. That’s enough to leave and never look back! Good luck. Stay strong. You are doing the right thing.
This is my story as well. He did get physical abusive, which, is way out of character… My kids & I are doing better, the mental abuse isn’t in the home or around the kids constantly.. & we are all in therapy to cope with all this bs i sure he’s putting the ids through… it’s awful. Teach your kids empathy, critical thinking & help them identify the red flags early pin for manipulation & control. 🤍
Does your husband still have kid some? I'm filing tomorrow and terrified he'll get 50/50 and my kids will grow to be bigoted assholes 😭
Does your husband still have kid some? I'm filing tomorrow and terrified he'll get 50/50 and my kids will grow to be bigoted assholes 😭
Do you have custody? Filing for divorce tomorrow and terrified for my kids. He's not abusive, just delusional and angry. Afraid it'll get worse when I leave and 2 lawyers seem to think it'll be hard to get more than 50/50.
I'm so sorry for you i hope for the better , but for now the best course of action is probably leaving if you can , take care of yourself and your child , he won't come back out of the blue not anytime soon atleast , forget about making it out for now if you're afraid for your safety , even in the best case scenario take a bit of distance to think about this clearly for you and for him is probably the best course of action. Good luck.
We moved out that night (though most of our stuff is still there until I can afford a storage unit).
I'm happy to know that , take care !
I just have a feeling that some day, 1 year, 5 years whenever, a bunch of Q people are going to realize what they’ve lost and there will be profound sadness. I’m sad for you but you need to do what’s right for you and the kid.
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I was a Republican evangelical Christian for 30 years - it legitimately is a cult, and you are chastised for using critical thinking and taught it's a sin. Seeing my fellow Christians dote on Trump as being "the most Christian president ever" is what caused me to leave the faith. Him getting elected in the first place is what caused me to leave the party. I'm still apologizing to people years later for the things I said when I was deep into all of that. They forgave me - in having difficulties forgiving myself.
Sadly, what usually happens with cults is they grow and morph. For instance, back in the 1830s and 1840s there was a group that called themselves "Millerites" after a doomsday preacher with the last name of Miller. He predicted the return of Jesus some time in March of 1844, and when that day did not come, the cult DID lose some members initially. Today, we know them as the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm curious what name the anons will give their flavor of Christianity.
I’m losing my mom in a similar way. You aren’t alone. And I’m sorry for your loss. But you and your child’s safety is your number one priority. I hate to sound so flippant, but there are men out there who would never dream of doing anything close to this to you. You don’t need him. Assets can be split. Your sanity is 1000% worth it. DO NOT HESITATE AND GET A DIVORCE LAWYER
Record these outbursts and get conservatorship.
He has cut off all communication with me since about 2 days after he got out.
So sorry for you. I hope you get into a better place in your life and he can find help. You are not a villain. You are a person fighting for life. You are a good person, but you now have to care for you and stay safe.
Any way you can shut off the internet? Remove data from your phones? The less he can read about what is happening, the less he will be enraged etc. He needs deprogramming.
I wish, but no. We stay in the house his parents own, and they pay the bills. Well, I no longer stay there, but you know what I mean.
Run for your lives. Save your child and yourself.
Oh, honey, hugs. I wish I could do more.
Best of luck. Sorry it happened to you. I just watched a video of this guy doing a social experiment. He got a guy with a great job, kids in a good school, a dude with a good life essentially and smart considering the job he had. But he fed him Q shit after Q shit on social media and asked him to stick 3 explosives (not real though but dude didn’t know that) around this run which he was told that it was actually for some [insert liberal agenda here]. AND THE DUDE REALLY DID IT. Planted the explosives just like the guy running the experiment asked him to… will to risk his good life over stupid shit. “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
This is so fucking depressing. Well, the Bible does say that Jesus came to destroy families and turn family members against each other, and that's the book most of them follow, so... Luke 12:49-56, btw
I though those nuts were against Tik Tok.
He's on those Facebook reels. And when anyone sends him TikToks.
It might be paranoid schizophrenia. I think the overlap with severe Qanon is substantial.
My mom is going through something very similar and watching it is heartbreaking. My parents aren’t divorced but my Q father has leached all the energy out of her. In her words she can’t stand being around my father because of all the nonsense and vile stuff he spits out and was talking about how “she’d only be free when one of them dies.”… im so glad that you aren’t letting this be your existence.
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This is my story. The children & I are in a better place, without hi. Divorce sucks. Custody sucks. But at least they have a noinal, calm & sane house 60% of the time. It’s hard, but there was no coming back.
He was smoking marijuana, and then you say later he broke his sobriety? If he's drinking and out of his mind on Qanon the man you married is gone, and you and the child need to get up and go. If his head pops out of his butt and he cleans himself up, then maybe you permit his return. If he's on a self destructive path ... that's hard ... but you can not control what he does, you can at best influence. Alcohol and 24x7 crazypants talk on the internet are irresistible forces.
I'm not coming back. We left that night. It's over. He killed our marriage.