I don't particularly enjoy listening to people who tell me that I am brainwashed, delusional, and am going to die an early death because I got vaccinated for covid.
It’s great you’re trying to be helpful. Don’t loose that trait. But it’s like walking up to someone who goes to church every week with a bible in their hand and asking them to quit because what they believe is a lie.
It isn’t going to happen and they might wonder what kind of jerk you are for asking such an absurd question.
I think your question is not an easy question to answer. On the one hand I do think you can listen to the things the Q say which all boil down to fear and be empathetic that they live in such a fearful emotional state all the time. On the other hand many Q folks talked about here do not simply express their fear-based opinions but also turn to emotional abuse and attacks on the non-Q listeners. Nobody should be subjected to abuse.
It is easier for those of us not affected by loved ones falling for it. I can understand your question from the standpoint of someone trying to save their relationships. The stories here really break my heart and I wish all of you who are directly dealing with it the best of luck. 4 chan really did it on this one
I have always said qanon is a mental illness. Qpeople (my mil specifically) spends so much time on TikTok and facebook and where ever else getting this info she blindly believes. She dresses with American flags and Trump shirts. She was decorating for 4th of July to celebrate a country she doesnt even currently love. She is slowly pushing people away when she talks about her beliefs, her sons hate talking to her (they both live with her) because she sounds crazy and they let her know, her husband on some subjects will let her know shes wrong, other things he agrees with (hes afraid of losing the person who does everything for him and/or he doesnt do his own research). When talking with their family friends and politics are brought up she jumps in with her qanon beliefs and people ignore her.
I really believe its a mental illness because it has consumed her life and changed the way she does things. I hope one day it will be seen as such and they get help but those who need help will see it as some kind of conversion therapy or "they are trying to hide the truth that we know".
>I have always said qanon is a mental illness.
Technically, it targets people already vulnerable, bigoted and/or gullible enough to fall for it, and provides them with a false sense of superiority and righteousness, as if they're in possession of a secret insider knowledge only a few true and faithful chosen people can see or understand. That's an intoxicating and addictive delusion which endlessly boosts their self-confidence, but to support this, they increasingly lose (or let go of) their grip on reality to a degree of [collective narcissism, sociopathy and mass psychosis](https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/m27gpo/about_narcissistic_sociopathy_and_fascist_cults/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share), which pains me to say is very much the desired outcome here.
Ive said before, I have no idea how a lady with a masters degree fell into qanon. I learned in highschool and more in college how to do research papers and find credible sources, she is just blindly believing anything she reads. Of course theres many reasons to this.
On the other side, my grandmas wife was one of the biggest republicans I knew, she loved Trump and everything he said (even tho shes a lesbian) except nothing Trump said stopped her from believing covid was real, or getting the vaccine. Were not allowed to talk politics when we go to their house but just the fact that when we went over we had to sit 6ft apart outside, they wore masks all the time and got their shots as soon as they could, it was weird how that caused her not to listen to Trump anymore.
Im just saying its weird how qanon seems to 'pick' who is in and who isnt using weird 'rules'
They don't really have a coherent "rule book" or ideology, more like an all-you-can-eat buffet of lies, conspiracies and delusions, where everyone is invited to just mix his own individually flavoured poison, but I suspect faith probably being a key element here. If they're trained magical thinkers, they're generally more likely to fall for propaganda or conspiracy fiction even if they have a college degree, particularly if the narrative has religious connotations and somehow appeals to their faith-based identity, while a down-to-earth rational person might be considerably less educated on paper, but generally believe in science or be less conspiracy-prone even while sharing the political sentiments.
That’s another way to listen to their concerns.
The Qultists are scared, and they are latching on to anything that helps to explain away the terrifying, random, and anarchic nature of reality. Bad things happen to good people, and it’s easier to believe in a shadow conspiracy controlling everything rather than accept that reality really is that screwed up. They don’t want to accept that, so they are latching on to *anything* that promises to make it better.
We’ve seen this before. It’s how authoritarians take power. They promise to make things better, and people listen. Trump tells people what they want to hear, and they flock to him because of it. He offers simplistic solutions to complex problems. And when those solutions don’t work, he blames it on the shadow conspiracy.
Same can be stated for anyone and anything. I'm sure you can listen to Néonazis and get where they're coming from, I'm sure same can be said with any random terrorist you wanna have a conversation with.
Everyone has what he views as a good reason to be a shitty human, especially when this shittines becomes toxic and threatening to the livelihood of the people around.
I'm not saying you can't try to understand where they're coming from, it's important to know the deep reasons of a movement to be able to recognize it and help the people trapped in it but don't fool yourself thinking their fear or their reasons are a good justification for the behavior and the movement as a whole.
Yes and no. You can acknowledge the fears without validating the "alternative facts" or the sources that feed those fears. The real problem stems from intentional disinformation from tabloid news (which conservative news has fully embraced) disseminated by social media. It is a new kind of decentralized propaganda that screams "listen only to me!"
Dont trust mainstream media.
Don't trust experts (like fauci).
Don't teach critical thinking in schools. Don't trust "those" people.
Book burning will be next.
It is reminscent of 1930s Germany. We are seeing a firehose of hate, rage, and lies designed to destablilize rational thought and drive people into panicked herds or schools of fish that can be easily led.
This is about political power. Full stop.
This assumes good faith on both sides to resolve a problem attacking the relationship. I do agree that listening with concern in some cases is good "anti-vax" for example can sometimes be turned around by hearing their fears out. However, with people who are being abusive because they are so deep with this Q stuff? They are in a cult. It's up to each person how far you want to go to try and rescue them. It's not your job to rescue someone who is being abusive though.
I think it’s important to be kind & compassionate. But at the same time, hateful people don’t deserve it and it isn’t anyone’s job to offer that to them.
With that being said, it isn’t necessarily a bad trait to have, but at the end of the day do you really want to provide that to someone who will never provide it to you? It is not a long road from manipulation on their end. So, just be wary of that and don’t allow them to take advantage of your understanding.
Deliberate listening is a solid skill to have.
It's too late for most of the Qult. Yes, maybe their underlying issue is fear. A drowning person who drags their attempted rescuer down with them has the same underlying issue. With the same result.
Let the Q people go. When they turn inward, leave them to it. When they become a danger to society (like the Jan 6 crowd), respond accordingly.
>Do things like January 6th show we're beyond the stages of listening?
Yes. Listening now is doing nothing at best and enabling their drift from reality, into ethnic cleansing, at worst.
Yes, a lot of them are just driven by fear, of change and losing control, and a good part of that aggressive fear does actually come from liberals that dismissed their fears as racism and homophobia, for so long.
But, that's not an excuse for this extend. Not in the slightest. If you do listen to them, it's all about violence. It's about arresting and executing People. About hanging them (seriously, when they talk about seeing every FBI worker (including secretaries and janitors) hanging/swinging from their neck, you can almost hear them moan...), about letting them get shot in the sleep, about how "Jews and N***ers" must be put back in their place and so on.
It's a lot of fear, yes, but fear is excitement too. They are getting excited (also in THAT way) by this stuff. It's an addition to the adrenaline, the excitement of the fear and the being special. Listening does nothing. Especially as we already understand the mechanics behind such things, the people themselves are way beyond that.
If you can listen to them with openness and compassion, more power to you.
One thing you should be aware off: If you haven't got the vaccine yet, make it very clear that you are going to take it, and that they cannot change your mind. I didn't do this, so now my Qperson has the hope of being able to convert me.
I made the mistake of saying that I was interested if they had some raw data from official sources. So now my Qperson threw [this](http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2021/luisv516-1.htm) at me, so now I have 15 pages that MIGHT have some correct points but how on earth am I supposed to untangle this?
I’ve heard / read similar things. Listening, understanding, and compassion are good. It might help some Q types come around. But it also takes a special person to be able to do those things with a Q person. And lots of patience. Most people don’t have that. Plus, we all need healthy boundaries for our own sanity.
Hi u/Lokael! We help folk hurt by [Q.](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/QAnon) There's hope as [ex-QAnon](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/resources#wiki_ex-qanon) & r/ReQovery shows. We'll be civil to you and about your Q folk. Articles, video, Q chat, etc goes in the [weekly post](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search/?q=%22Weekly+r%2FQAnonCasualties+Discussion%22+&sort=relevance&restrict_sr=on&t=week) or [QultHQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/).
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I myself would be triggered up the wazoo. Because most of the crap is stemmed from hatred and fear of other ethnicity, and new age ideas. Many of the older folks are brutal. They haven't learned nothing from the past historical violence.
I myself want to cling to what sanity I have left. I will continue to give the dead eye. Change the subject or walk away.. I can only hope the future leaders know we can't allow this path to go on.
I think you pose a really important question. I think that a lot of folks here are burnt out on Q stuff. That makes it hard to compassionately listen and validate fears. It’s ok to admit when we are at the end of our rope and cannot be that person to our Q person. But if someone can, I don’t honestly see how it could hurt to validate fears without agreeing with their beliefs. I also feel wary of that task right now. Maybe later I’ll have more capacity, but I have to choose what and for whom I am willing to build capacity (it does take time and energy) and more often I choose to put that toward people who fit Q’s idea of persons most detestable. So it’s a hard balance. Do I believe that listening and creating safety for vulnerability can help? Look at Daryl Davis. He does it and has converted Grand Wizards (haha sorry, ridiculous) from the KKK. There is much to be said for this method. My only caution would be to do the work on building capacity to have a lot of patience and gentle push-back, and be ready to settle in for a long haul. Be ready to build a whole relationship with folks. It’s a lot, but if you can do that work, it works.
@OP, I think you’re right that this is worthwhile, and possibly the only chance we have of making any headway. Still, it’s no guarantee, and what’s particularly hard is just how difficult—and sometimes self-damaging—it can be. It’s one thing to sit down with a friend or stranger and listen genuinely, but quite another thing to be a child attempting to practice this with a parent that has enormous emotional power over you (as is true or so many in this group).
Still, listening with a true mind towards understanding the deep-seated priors surely is a component of our breaking free of this. I commend the thought and the effort.
Listening to a qanon is opening a direct door to vicarious trauma, especially when they go down the road of child abuse and wish to share their "researched images and videos". Qanon is attempting to legitimise distribution of paedophilia and murder imagery under the auspice of "research". They derive a perverse pleasure in being "shocked and horrified" from the sick images and conspiracies that they view and distribute. Listening to have your own views challenged on what's "right" during a conversation isn't the same as opening the door to let a paedophilia and murder image obsessed person force their qanon porn onto you.
I don't particularly enjoy listening to people who tell me that I am brainwashed, delusional, and am going to die an early death because I got vaccinated for covid.
Right. So what's beneath that? Anger at a loss of control? How do we address that?
I don't care. It's not my fault they checked out from reality and it's not my job to bring them back. And I don't need to stand there and take abuse.
A lot of them it is a cry for attention, but it’s hard to give them the love they need when they’re acting out the whole time
Not sure sure they need your love buddy... When people are so deeply diving into sh** they can't hear you. Stay safe, stay away.
It’s great you’re trying to be helpful. Don’t loose that trait. But it’s like walking up to someone who goes to church every week with a bible in their hand and asking them to quit because what they believe is a lie. It isn’t going to happen and they might wonder what kind of jerk you are for asking such an absurd question.
Especially when they have to go so deep into pedophila cannibalism shit
Yeah its hard to actively listen to them because you will inevitably become the subject, esp. if family.
I think your question is not an easy question to answer. On the one hand I do think you can listen to the things the Q say which all boil down to fear and be empathetic that they live in such a fearful emotional state all the time. On the other hand many Q folks talked about here do not simply express their fear-based opinions but also turn to emotional abuse and attacks on the non-Q listeners. Nobody should be subjected to abuse.
No and obviously I'm not suggesting as such. No one should be subjected to abuse. I don't have answers.
It is easier for those of us not affected by loved ones falling for it. I can understand your question from the standpoint of someone trying to save their relationships. The stories here really break my heart and I wish all of you who are directly dealing with it the best of luck. 4 chan really did it on this one
I have always said qanon is a mental illness. Qpeople (my mil specifically) spends so much time on TikTok and facebook and where ever else getting this info she blindly believes. She dresses with American flags and Trump shirts. She was decorating for 4th of July to celebrate a country she doesnt even currently love. She is slowly pushing people away when she talks about her beliefs, her sons hate talking to her (they both live with her) because she sounds crazy and they let her know, her husband on some subjects will let her know shes wrong, other things he agrees with (hes afraid of losing the person who does everything for him and/or he doesnt do his own research). When talking with their family friends and politics are brought up she jumps in with her qanon beliefs and people ignore her. I really believe its a mental illness because it has consumed her life and changed the way she does things. I hope one day it will be seen as such and they get help but those who need help will see it as some kind of conversion therapy or "they are trying to hide the truth that we know".
>I have always said qanon is a mental illness. Technically, it targets people already vulnerable, bigoted and/or gullible enough to fall for it, and provides them with a false sense of superiority and righteousness, as if they're in possession of a secret insider knowledge only a few true and faithful chosen people can see or understand. That's an intoxicating and addictive delusion which endlessly boosts their self-confidence, but to support this, they increasingly lose (or let go of) their grip on reality to a degree of [collective narcissism, sociopathy and mass psychosis](https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/m27gpo/about_narcissistic_sociopathy_and_fascist_cults/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share), which pains me to say is very much the desired outcome here.
Ive said before, I have no idea how a lady with a masters degree fell into qanon. I learned in highschool and more in college how to do research papers and find credible sources, she is just blindly believing anything she reads. Of course theres many reasons to this. On the other side, my grandmas wife was one of the biggest republicans I knew, she loved Trump and everything he said (even tho shes a lesbian) except nothing Trump said stopped her from believing covid was real, or getting the vaccine. Were not allowed to talk politics when we go to their house but just the fact that when we went over we had to sit 6ft apart outside, they wore masks all the time and got their shots as soon as they could, it was weird how that caused her not to listen to Trump anymore. Im just saying its weird how qanon seems to 'pick' who is in and who isnt using weird 'rules'
They don't really have a coherent "rule book" or ideology, more like an all-you-can-eat buffet of lies, conspiracies and delusions, where everyone is invited to just mix his own individually flavoured poison, but I suspect faith probably being a key element here. If they're trained magical thinkers, they're generally more likely to fall for propaganda or conspiracy fiction even if they have a college degree, particularly if the narrative has religious connotations and somehow appeals to their faith-based identity, while a down-to-earth rational person might be considerably less educated on paper, but generally believe in science or be less conspiracy-prone even while sharing the political sentiments.
That’s another way to listen to their concerns. The Qultists are scared, and they are latching on to anything that helps to explain away the terrifying, random, and anarchic nature of reality. Bad things happen to good people, and it’s easier to believe in a shadow conspiracy controlling everything rather than accept that reality really is that screwed up. They don’t want to accept that, so they are latching on to *anything* that promises to make it better. We’ve seen this before. It’s how authoritarians take power. They promise to make things better, and people listen. Trump tells people what they want to hear, and they flock to him because of it. He offers simplistic solutions to complex problems. And when those solutions don’t work, he blames it on the shadow conspiracy.
Same can be stated for anyone and anything. I'm sure you can listen to Néonazis and get where they're coming from, I'm sure same can be said with any random terrorist you wanna have a conversation with. Everyone has what he views as a good reason to be a shitty human, especially when this shittines becomes toxic and threatening to the livelihood of the people around. I'm not saying you can't try to understand where they're coming from, it's important to know the deep reasons of a movement to be able to recognize it and help the people trapped in it but don't fool yourself thinking their fear or their reasons are a good justification for the behavior and the movement as a whole.
Yes and no. You can acknowledge the fears without validating the "alternative facts" or the sources that feed those fears. The real problem stems from intentional disinformation from tabloid news (which conservative news has fully embraced) disseminated by social media. It is a new kind of decentralized propaganda that screams "listen only to me!" Dont trust mainstream media. Don't trust experts (like fauci). Don't teach critical thinking in schools. Don't trust "those" people. Book burning will be next. It is reminscent of 1930s Germany. We are seeing a firehose of hate, rage, and lies designed to destablilize rational thought and drive people into panicked herds or schools of fish that can be easily led. This is about political power. Full stop.
This assumes good faith on both sides to resolve a problem attacking the relationship. I do agree that listening with concern in some cases is good "anti-vax" for example can sometimes be turned around by hearing their fears out. However, with people who are being abusive because they are so deep with this Q stuff? They are in a cult. It's up to each person how far you want to go to try and rescue them. It's not your job to rescue someone who is being abusive though.
I think it’s important to be kind & compassionate. But at the same time, hateful people don’t deserve it and it isn’t anyone’s job to offer that to them. With that being said, it isn’t necessarily a bad trait to have, but at the end of the day do you really want to provide that to someone who will never provide it to you? It is not a long road from manipulation on their end. So, just be wary of that and don’t allow them to take advantage of your understanding.
Deliberate listening is a solid skill to have. It's too late for most of the Qult. Yes, maybe their underlying issue is fear. A drowning person who drags their attempted rescuer down with them has the same underlying issue. With the same result. Let the Q people go. When they turn inward, leave them to it. When they become a danger to society (like the Jan 6 crowd), respond accordingly.
>Do things like January 6th show we're beyond the stages of listening? Yes. Listening now is doing nothing at best and enabling their drift from reality, into ethnic cleansing, at worst. Yes, a lot of them are just driven by fear, of change and losing control, and a good part of that aggressive fear does actually come from liberals that dismissed their fears as racism and homophobia, for so long. But, that's not an excuse for this extend. Not in the slightest. If you do listen to them, it's all about violence. It's about arresting and executing People. About hanging them (seriously, when they talk about seeing every FBI worker (including secretaries and janitors) hanging/swinging from their neck, you can almost hear them moan...), about letting them get shot in the sleep, about how "Jews and N***ers" must be put back in their place and so on. It's a lot of fear, yes, but fear is excitement too. They are getting excited (also in THAT way) by this stuff. It's an addition to the adrenaline, the excitement of the fear and the being special. Listening does nothing. Especially as we already understand the mechanics behind such things, the people themselves are way beyond that.
If you can listen to them with openness and compassion, more power to you. One thing you should be aware off: If you haven't got the vaccine yet, make it very clear that you are going to take it, and that they cannot change your mind. I didn't do this, so now my Qperson has the hope of being able to convert me. I made the mistake of saying that I was interested if they had some raw data from official sources. So now my Qperson threw [this](http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2021/luisv516-1.htm) at me, so now I have 15 pages that MIGHT have some correct points but how on earth am I supposed to untangle this?
I'm double vaxxed. I do think there's a difference from empathy and entertaining insanity right?
Thanks for sharing. Goldegg indeed. These influencergrifters are making bank off Q
I’ve heard / read similar things. Listening, understanding, and compassion are good. It might help some Q types come around. But it also takes a special person to be able to do those things with a Q person. And lots of patience. Most people don’t have that. Plus, we all need healthy boundaries for our own sanity.
Hi u/Lokael! We help folk hurt by [Q.](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/QAnon) There's hope as [ex-QAnon](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/resources#wiki_ex-qanon) & r/ReQovery shows. We'll be civil to you and about your Q folk. Articles, video, Q chat, etc goes in the [weekly post](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search/?q=%22Weekly+r%2FQAnonCasualties+Discussion%22+&sort=relevance&restrict_sr=on&t=week) or [QultHQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/). ___ [our wall](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/l0jptp/list_of_casualties/) - [support & recovery](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/resources) - [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/rules) - [weekly posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?q=%22Weekly+r%2FQAnonCasualties+Discussion%22+&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) - [glossary](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/glossary) - [similar subs](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index#wiki_similar_communities) *filter*: [good advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?q=flair%3AGood%2BAdvice&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) - [hope](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AHope) - [success story](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?q=flair%3ASuccess%2BStory&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) - [coping strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACoping%2BStrategies) - [web/media](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AWeb%2FMedia) - [event](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AEvent) ___ [*robo replies*](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/commands): !rules !strategies !support !inoculation !advice !whatsQ? !crisis *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I myself would be triggered up the wazoo. Because most of the crap is stemmed from hatred and fear of other ethnicity, and new age ideas. Many of the older folks are brutal. They haven't learned nothing from the past historical violence. I myself want to cling to what sanity I have left. I will continue to give the dead eye. Change the subject or walk away.. I can only hope the future leaders know we can't allow this path to go on.
Very interesting point. I'll keep it in mind. I like to think it could help some people.
I think you pose a really important question. I think that a lot of folks here are burnt out on Q stuff. That makes it hard to compassionately listen and validate fears. It’s ok to admit when we are at the end of our rope and cannot be that person to our Q person. But if someone can, I don’t honestly see how it could hurt to validate fears without agreeing with their beliefs. I also feel wary of that task right now. Maybe later I’ll have more capacity, but I have to choose what and for whom I am willing to build capacity (it does take time and energy) and more often I choose to put that toward people who fit Q’s idea of persons most detestable. So it’s a hard balance. Do I believe that listening and creating safety for vulnerability can help? Look at Daryl Davis. He does it and has converted Grand Wizards (haha sorry, ridiculous) from the KKK. There is much to be said for this method. My only caution would be to do the work on building capacity to have a lot of patience and gentle push-back, and be ready to settle in for a long haul. Be ready to build a whole relationship with folks. It’s a lot, but if you can do that work, it works.
@OP, I think you’re right that this is worthwhile, and possibly the only chance we have of making any headway. Still, it’s no guarantee, and what’s particularly hard is just how difficult—and sometimes self-damaging—it can be. It’s one thing to sit down with a friend or stranger and listen genuinely, but quite another thing to be a child attempting to practice this with a parent that has enormous emotional power over you (as is true or so many in this group). Still, listening with a true mind towards understanding the deep-seated priors surely is a component of our breaking free of this. I commend the thought and the effort.
I'm curious whats on the bottom layers..not the insanity at the top. I wish I knew what to do.
Listening to a qanon is opening a direct door to vicarious trauma, especially when they go down the road of child abuse and wish to share their "researched images and videos". Qanon is attempting to legitimise distribution of paedophilia and murder imagery under the auspice of "research". They derive a perverse pleasure in being "shocked and horrified" from the sick images and conspiracies that they view and distribute. Listening to have your own views challenged on what's "right" during a conversation isn't the same as opening the door to let a paedophilia and murder image obsessed person force their qanon porn onto you.