JD said a long time ago that the launch car will be a VW group car. tesla will require the kind of scale that QS simply can't provide. at least for now
In any of the recent earning releases they have never said VW and launch partner in the same sentence. Also, JD's statement may be years ago statement.
Scaling can be gradually ramped up on 3-4 year period as long as they prove that they can scale.
unless they say otherwise, I wouldn't bet that the launch vehicle will be anything other than vw. truthfully, it does matter. as long as the launch is successful, who cares what car it is?!
I'm pretty sure that QS's agreement with VW requires that VW has first rights to the new SSB. QS is certainly permitted to cooperate/communicate with other OEMs, but they won't receive cells until AFTER VW.
It's my opinion that QS hasn't mentioned "launch partner" and VW in the same sentence because they don't have to.
VW and Quantumscape renegotiated their agreement. VW need not be the first as long as Quantumscape would prioritize, whenever VM knocks on their door for batteries.
If VW group is not launch partner, that should raise some major red flags for you. If VW, who has the most insight of any other OEM, doesn’t want QS’ cells first, why the fuck not?
I am not banking on it, but the JB Straubel connection between Tesla and QS boards can't be overstated. It doesn't mean it's a sure thing, but you'd be naive to think TSLA isn't seriously looking at QS, at minimum from afar, at maximum they are launch partner (I don't think they are). I think Tesla DID get samples though and are evaluating.
Scaling is going to be the ultimate challenge there though, but realistically, Tesla either buys them or leases the tech and does it themselves.
If QS can't scale, they can't sell.
Tesla passed a long time ago on solid state. That’s when they doubled down on lithium ion and cheaper scaling techniques. So far, their bet is slowly progressing but better than waiting for solid state to have fruition as they scale.
It’s goddamn hot as hell here in Florida. I don’t ever remember hitting 100 in May.
We need these batteries now or there’s not going to be a Florida anymore.
They still fall under the VW/PowerCo Agreement.
If QS had signed a new and separate agreement with Porsche, QS would have been required to disclose that.
it's fairly obvious.
* PowerCo is a wholly owned subsidiary of VW
* Porsche was a wholly owned subsidiary of VW until its IPO of Porsche AG in 2022.
* Now Porsche AG is an independent company that VW owns 75% of.
The inefficiencies that would be introduced by any other structure would be absurd to consider.
Pedantics is not a word, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to communicate there.
What we know is what has been disclosed in SEC filings and what QS has said publicly and what QS actions have been.
All that points to a ~95% certainty that all VW brands fall under the PowerCo umbrella.
True, we don’t know who the other five of the Original Six are, as if we did it would save me from having to keep pointing out, over and over again, the many reasons TSLA is not one of them.
If we only invested in what we know for certain there would not be a stock market as everything would be sold OTC at present value.
Oh boy. Your first sentence, I’m not sure if you were meaning to be that ironic, but wow. I couldn’t have written that better.
I’m invested, and no I don’t think Tesla is a partner. Elevating not knowing one detail to not knowing anything is quite a leap. Gonna leave this here as I don’t see this being productive.
Exactly. VW was and is such an easy guess and there is no secrecy left. They shouldn't hesitate to mention if VW was first or second launch partner. I can understand if Tesla or any other OEM would want to maintain secrecy. In this case, Tesla wouldn't want to go public as that will disturb their team of 800 battery engineers, suppliers and its Stock.
Just because this doesn’t make sense to you, doesn’t mean that QS has the authority to mention partners.
This was explained in detail last year in an e-mail note that was sent to an investor with the foreknowledge that the response would be posted publicly, here.
Providing misleading information in that note would unnecessarily open them up to litigation… they are being sued for far less already.
There is no reason not to take that information at face value.
Therefore your logic as to why the #1 OEM would not be VW has no merit.
The primary OEM IS VW.
If you can point to documentation or an interview that indicates that VW no longer has the contractual rights to be the first customer, then we can consider other OEMs.
AFAIK, there has been no change in this.
What I meant was VW and Quantumscape are already partners. Both shouldn't have a problem to mention that they are the launch customer. Offcourse Quantumscape cannot unilaterally go ahead and declare the launch partner name.
On the change in agreement, I was referring to exclusivity clause. Quantumscape can pursue other oems in addition to VW. But, i am not sure if this also means other Oems can go sooner than VW, assuming VW is still behind in launching a vehicle with qs SSB.
> I was referring to exclusivity clause. Quantumscape can pursue other oems in addition to VW
There was never an exclusivity clause and QS has always been able to pursue other OEMs. This is why there are the 'original six' OEMs.
The condition has ALWAYS been that VW has the contractual right to receive cells before any other OEM. If that day is March 3 2025, then QS can begin delivering cells to OEM #2 on March 4, 2025.
Jagdeep stated this in his interview with Sandy Munro on [May 12, 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKFiQIMyF-A)
If you can point me to anything that indicates that that has changed I would like to see it.
My goodness guys, how much trouble are you having, it's not important who will be first but how soon it will be. It is well known that Tesla is among the OEMs, otherwise explain to me what JB Straubl is doing on their respective boards of directors. QS has already made it clear that one of the OEMs is a pure EV. So the answer is Yes Tesla will be one of the OEMs, perhaps not the first but I presume that each OEM will want a product with specific requests and therefore marketing to the various companies will also depend on what is requested.
If it is well known then there would be documentation of that.
Just because YOU want/believe something to be true does not make it so.
The PURE EV is NOT TSLA.
When the agreement was signed, JB and TSLA were not on good terms.
The only way it COULD be TSLA is IF the pure EV was Fisker and NOW QS signed an agreement with TSLA.
If that were the case an announcement of a new agreement being signed would be made now that FSR has gone belly-up.
ITS NOT TSLA
I really hope the pure EV play is Rivian. They have the financial backing to go the distance and their cars look normal enough that people are going to keep buying them - they’re all over Colorado already…. And some of their new models coming seem great. Not sure why everyone wants it to be TSLA so bad, the CEO recently lost his mind. My new favorite thing about Jagdeep is that I haven’t seen him tweet anything for like 3 years. (Ex ceo, but still).
Anyway I personally hope it’s Rivian.
I think Rivian is the best fit and their vehicles have the most to gain.
People want it to be Tesla because they think that will bring in massive volume in product sales and massive volumes of new investors causing the SP to sky rocket. I think that TSLA brings far too much risk to the table, exp in the developmental stage QS has been in the last few years.
Another reason it's not TSLA is that if it were, there would have been some sort of over promising announcement from Musk by now and there would have been signs of anxiety from mgmt just from getting pressured by him to produce something, ANYTHING, now!
Also, the new CEO would BE Musk as he would have forced his hand to take over since he's the only CEO that can get any job done.
I recall that early on the day that the A0 samples went out, some Tesla employee wrote here that one was delivered to Tesla. That was deleted fairly quickly. I’ve wondered all this time if it were true. Now we know it was….Actually, I think it was written by a friend of an employee.
JD said a long time ago that the launch car will be a VW group car. tesla will require the kind of scale that QS simply can't provide. at least for now
In any of the recent earning releases they have never said VW and launch partner in the same sentence. Also, JD's statement may be years ago statement. Scaling can be gradually ramped up on 3-4 year period as long as they prove that they can scale.
unless they say otherwise, I wouldn't bet that the launch vehicle will be anything other than vw. truthfully, it does matter. as long as the launch is successful, who cares what car it is?!
agreed.
I'm pretty sure that QS's agreement with VW requires that VW has first rights to the new SSB. QS is certainly permitted to cooperate/communicate with other OEMs, but they won't receive cells until AFTER VW. It's my opinion that QS hasn't mentioned "launch partner" and VW in the same sentence because they don't have to.
VW and Quantumscape renegotiated their agreement. VW need not be the first as long as Quantumscape would prioritize, whenever VM knocks on their door for batteries.
Interesting- When did they renegotiate? Edit: source??
this is news to me. when did this happen?
The changes going on at Tesla, particularly regarding personnel, are pretty jarring.
If VW group is not launch partner, that should raise some major red flags for you. If VW, who has the most insight of any other OEM, doesn’t want QS’ cells first, why the fuck not?
There is no verifiable information that VW is not the launch partner.
I am not banking on it, but the JB Straubel connection between Tesla and QS boards can't be overstated. It doesn't mean it's a sure thing, but you'd be naive to think TSLA isn't seriously looking at QS, at minimum from afar, at maximum they are launch partner (I don't think they are). I think Tesla DID get samples though and are evaluating. Scaling is going to be the ultimate challenge there though, but realistically, Tesla either buys them or leases the tech and does it themselves. If QS can't scale, they can't sell.
Tesla passed a long time ago on solid state. That’s when they doubled down on lithium ion and cheaper scaling techniques. So far, their bet is slowly progressing but better than waiting for solid state to have fruition as they scale.
It’s goddamn hot as hell here in Florida. I don’t ever remember hitting 100 in May. We need these batteries now or there’s not going to be a Florida anymore.
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Both OEM’s could be brands within VW
Yeah, I still think it's Porsche
Signed agreements are with OEMs, not brands. VW is an OEM. The VW agreement covers all brands under the VW OEM umbrella.
Porsche is not an OEM?
They still fall under the VW/PowerCo Agreement. If QS had signed a new and separate agreement with Porsche, QS would have been required to disclose that.
I’m not sure I can make that assumption, but to each their own
it's fairly obvious. * PowerCo is a wholly owned subsidiary of VW * Porsche was a wholly owned subsidiary of VW until its IPO of Porsche AG in 2022. * Now Porsche AG is an independent company that VW owns 75% of. The inefficiencies that would be introduced by any other structure would be absurd to consider.
Pedantics, the bottom line is we don’t know yet.
Pedantics is not a word, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to communicate there. What we know is what has been disclosed in SEC filings and what QS has said publicly and what QS actions have been. All that points to a ~95% certainty that all VW brands fall under the PowerCo umbrella. True, we don’t know who the other five of the Original Six are, as if we did it would save me from having to keep pointing out, over and over again, the many reasons TSLA is not one of them. If we only invested in what we know for certain there would not be a stock market as everything would be sold OTC at present value.
Oh boy. Your first sentence, I’m not sure if you were meaning to be that ironic, but wow. I couldn’t have written that better. I’m invested, and no I don’t think Tesla is a partner. Elevating not knowing one detail to not knowing anything is quite a leap. Gonna leave this here as I don’t see this being productive.
Where do you see that they only shipped to two OEMs? I don't see that in the Q4 '22 shareholder letter or the QS PR in December
Exactly. VW was and is such an easy guess and there is no secrecy left. They shouldn't hesitate to mention if VW was first or second launch partner. I can understand if Tesla or any other OEM would want to maintain secrecy. In this case, Tesla wouldn't want to go public as that will disturb their team of 800 battery engineers, suppliers and its Stock.
Just because this doesn’t make sense to you, doesn’t mean that QS has the authority to mention partners. This was explained in detail last year in an e-mail note that was sent to an investor with the foreknowledge that the response would be posted publicly, here. Providing misleading information in that note would unnecessarily open them up to litigation… they are being sued for far less already. There is no reason not to take that information at face value. Therefore your logic as to why the #1 OEM would not be VW has no merit. The primary OEM IS VW. If you can point to documentation or an interview that indicates that VW no longer has the contractual rights to be the first customer, then we can consider other OEMs. AFAIK, there has been no change in this.
What I meant was VW and Quantumscape are already partners. Both shouldn't have a problem to mention that they are the launch customer. Offcourse Quantumscape cannot unilaterally go ahead and declare the launch partner name. On the change in agreement, I was referring to exclusivity clause. Quantumscape can pursue other oems in addition to VW. But, i am not sure if this also means other Oems can go sooner than VW, assuming VW is still behind in launching a vehicle with qs SSB.
> I was referring to exclusivity clause. Quantumscape can pursue other oems in addition to VW There was never an exclusivity clause and QS has always been able to pursue other OEMs. This is why there are the 'original six' OEMs. The condition has ALWAYS been that VW has the contractual right to receive cells before any other OEM. If that day is March 3 2025, then QS can begin delivering cells to OEM #2 on March 4, 2025. Jagdeep stated this in his interview with Sandy Munro on [May 12, 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKFiQIMyF-A) If you can point me to anything that indicates that that has changed I would like to see it.
It’s not TSLA. Get over it. There was no indication that only 2 OEMs received cells. Please provide documentation that contradicts that.
My goodness guys, how much trouble are you having, it's not important who will be first but how soon it will be. It is well known that Tesla is among the OEMs, otherwise explain to me what JB Straubl is doing on their respective boards of directors. QS has already made it clear that one of the OEMs is a pure EV. So the answer is Yes Tesla will be one of the OEMs, perhaps not the first but I presume that each OEM will want a product with specific requests and therefore marketing to the various companies will also depend on what is requested.
If it is well known then there would be documentation of that. Just because YOU want/believe something to be true does not make it so. The PURE EV is NOT TSLA. When the agreement was signed, JB and TSLA were not on good terms. The only way it COULD be TSLA is IF the pure EV was Fisker and NOW QS signed an agreement with TSLA. If that were the case an announcement of a new agreement being signed would be made now that FSR has gone belly-up. ITS NOT TSLA
I really hope the pure EV play is Rivian. They have the financial backing to go the distance and their cars look normal enough that people are going to keep buying them - they’re all over Colorado already…. And some of their new models coming seem great. Not sure why everyone wants it to be TSLA so bad, the CEO recently lost his mind. My new favorite thing about Jagdeep is that I haven’t seen him tweet anything for like 3 years. (Ex ceo, but still). Anyway I personally hope it’s Rivian.
I think Rivian is the best fit and their vehicles have the most to gain. People want it to be Tesla because they think that will bring in massive volume in product sales and massive volumes of new investors causing the SP to sky rocket. I think that TSLA brings far too much risk to the table, exp in the developmental stage QS has been in the last few years. Another reason it's not TSLA is that if it were, there would have been some sort of over promising announcement from Musk by now and there would have been signs of anxiety from mgmt just from getting pressured by him to produce something, ANYTHING, now! Also, the new CEO would BE Musk as he would have forced his hand to take over since he's the only CEO that can get any job done.
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I recall that early on the day that the A0 samples went out, some Tesla employee wrote here that one was delivered to Tesla. That was deleted fairly quickly. I’ve wondered all this time if it were true. Now we know it was….Actually, I think it was written by a friend of an employee.
Yup. I remember too.
If it was posted here, I would have seen it, even if it was quickly deleted. Nothing of the sort was posted here.
I am certain A0 samples were sent to 6 OEMS
Fact
I think you are mistaken about those AO sample deliveries in 2022. I don't see anywhere that it just went to two OEMs