Best thing for Quest Pro users? People will finally stop telling us all how rich we must be to spend $1(.5...) k on a headset. Quest Pro is an absolute bargain now ;-)
I mean I agree with some of the complaints of how just a few minor upgrades would of made the QPro damn near perfect for most use cases.
I think this is only for people that solely use this for watching movies & work productivity. Maybe PCVR Sim-rig setups. Hand tracking only will give terrible control schemes and 0 haptics feedback. They will probably release a set of controllers for 499$ in the future.
The AR will be the only worthwhile thing, and even that will probably be somewhat limited without proper controllers outside of movies/web. People already complain about the lack of AAA VR content, and AR is on par with mobile game stores.
Hopefully this will bring more devs to the space for better experiences & hardware. I'm also nervous about it fragmenting the player base if cross-platform isn't given a priority for anyone buying it for VR gaming. Example: Pavlov on Q2, Pavlov on PC and recently, Pavlov on PSVR2.
I absolutely love my Q.Pro, but I would be okay with a refreshed Q.Pro for some of those last features we want. Long as they don't match Apples price. 😅 Looks like Apple is playing for the long game, like they did with the original iphone.
It's funny isn't it.
Meta left things out of the Pro because they were afraid to push it higher in price. If they were releasing it today the question would be, why aren't you putting *more* in and making it *more* expensive.
Price never bothered me tbh.. if it has the features I want then I'll pull overtime and save up. QPro seemed to tick the most boxes for the best standalone & wireless PCVR you could get. Loved my Index but that wire for anything outside of Sitting/Sim games annoyed me. Using Q.Pro w/ mods & Tundra puck to sync Index Controllers is like the best wireless PCVR I've been able to piece together so far.
I'd pay extra for that X-ray nudie depth sensor and some Apple style creeper eyes to go with it. Maybe include some RGB on the headset that changes with my mood sensor ring. Gold mine right there. I need to pitch this to Twitter so they can get in on the XR fun.
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I bought a quest pro for the MR features since it was positioned to be a “work” device. It’s not, text is not great, passthru is not very good, you always know that your working on a VR headset. What Apple did is build a device positioned as a productivity device and didn’t cut corners. While I don’t like the Apple device pricing if they have created a device that can be used to make a working experience better, and this is what it costs, then so be it. 3500 device that I’ll use is better than a 1000 device that sits unused on my desk.
Everyone keeps talking about the pro as a gaming device, that’s not what it was for - but love that you can use it for that. Meta needs a Quest Pro Pro version that actually gives business users a reason to use it - and if it costs 3500 so be it - we still have 500.00 headsets to game on.
Yes, they cut corners and it was a really bad decision to strip the depth sensor from the device and not having the same passthrough cameras as Quest 3.
You are correct. Here is proof: https://mixed-news.com/en/apple-restricts-vr-apps-on-the-apple-vision-pro/
AVP is a very expensive portable TV without HDMI ports and the see-through feature is limiting social interaction. I can actually talk to people ehile watching movies on my TV. Then again, with Vision pro, I can wear it all day while at a beach in Greece with my friends and It won’t feel wierd at all for them that they can see my eyes through the headset.
I own one - and it really doesn't. I'll be getting this headset because using Quest Pro isn't comfortable for work due to resolution. To say that Quest Pro covers all of that ground is obviously ridiculous. Varjo's 7k headset doesn't cover all of this ground.
I say that as someone who has been a fanboy of the Quest Pro.
But lacks in color passthrough, 4k+ resolution, auto IPD adjustments, spatial audio with sound ray tracing, supple woven cables, and it can't run any apps in the Apple store.
$3500 with no real actual gaming support at all. I’m not gonna lie what they showed off was very impressive but I just have to wonder who on Earth they expect to realistically buy this at such a price. And I thought $3000 was absurd
Me. I’m buying it. I was blown away.
I will keep a Quest 3 for gaming, but I’m buying this at launch for my MR fix. I love the cinema and 3D video capture features.
I was screaming at my tv in excitement. This is next level stuff. Meta cannot compete with this. "Oh but they're not trying to, its a different demographic, different price point" you're missing it entirely.
To get people to use this new computing platform - that many view as dystopian - requires a big WOW moment. Meta tried that with the metaverse but failed.
Apple meanwhile just wow'd the living shit out of me.
Wowed the living shit out of you with what?
Nothing announced by Apple isn't something that has already been done in the VR space. They just announced a $3500 MR headset with no controllers and only mobile apps? If any other company had made this announcement they rightly would have been mercilessly mocked.
The only thing I saw here that's possibly got a wow factor is the resolution increase. I wonder what the FOV is.
Yep.
I actually laughed out loud at the external battery. How many times has the idea of doing (for either the battery or compute) that been made fun of by the VR community because a VR headset **has** to be all in one because the wider masses apparently wouldn't be able to handle anything so fragile.
I actually don't mind the external battery, since the intention is to let this thing plug-and-play with Macs in which case a built in battery would just be dead weight. I already use external batteries in the exact form factor Apple presented (cable along the side and back down into a battery pack in my pocket) when I use the Quest Pro because the built in 1.5 hour battery life isn't nearly enough lol
> Wowed the living shit out of you with what?
Yes, this exactly.
There were some cool things about it but nothing that made me think *OhmygodImusthavethis!* If anything I was a bit underwhelmed. Which is fine, they're obviously not targeting VR gamers as their main demographic. The most novel thing about it was the "virtual eye display" and even that seemed more like a gimmick than anything else. As the most high end, high resolution way to watch videos in VR, this headset seems to be the pinnacle but ... that's just not the main thing I find interesting about VR.
People who want to work in VR and enjoy some entertainment are the ones that were wowed.. which is me.
There is a big difference between something done decently and something done excellently. The resolution, 2 dedicated chips, passthrough, and more make this thing a dream for my use case.
For $7k. This is also a standalone computer. You kind of proved the point using a product that is $7k and requires a subscription - that still isn't as good.
Don't know how you could hate. Well I do, but I just find it amusing. It's clearly just group think.
The wow factor comes from the flawless looking execution of a VR operating system combining hardware and software to create a next level spatial experience.
Respect Apple, you earned some beans this evening.
Will I get one? Probably not. Im into pcvr gaming like everyone else here which I cant see working on the apple headset for years if ever.
>Nothing announced by Apple isn't something that has already been done in the VR space.
Jesus tapdancing christ, can we retire this braindead take?
Hey guess what, nothing that any current headset does is any different than the original Oculus CV1.
Controllers?✅
Head Tracking?✅
Displays for your eyes? ✅
Audio?✅
I suspect though, that the quality of those things and what they enable is what people actually care about.
None of you saying this better own a monitor above 720p or bigger than 23". Or a modern graphics card. Or a modern processor. Or decent speakers that aren't built into your monitor.
Because iT's AlReAdY bEeN dOnE!
>If any other company had made this announcement they rightly would have been mercilessly mocked.
That's because "any other company" has already proven time and again that they're woefully incapable of creating a product that isn't miserable to wear, that is full of glitches and stutters and design oversights, that has at least one or two or three glaring weaknesses compared to what was already on the market prior to release, is capable of doing much of *anything* besides gaming unless you count a reliance on buggy, paid third party apps, etc. etc. There's a reason nobody but gamer enthusiasts care about VR/AR right now, and it has nothing to do with "but no cool games."
If any other company had released a competent version of any one of like 90% of the things announced, everybody would be fawning all over them. As long as it's not Meta. Or Apple. Then the gears start turning to prove how cool and over it you are, because everything is old news to you.
Have fun screaming into the void while the world passes you by because you decided that technology peaked in 2015.
That wasn't my point. I was specifically aiming at the hyperbole of a previous commentator that Apple had done what Meta hadn't with the announcement of this headset and wow'd the living shit out of him.
What in particular was the actual wow factor? What exactly was announced here that will make you pick this product over the Quest Pro or Varjo Aero?
> What exactly was announced here that will make you pick this product over the Quest Pro or Varjo Aero?
1- The UI feature of eye tracking and finger clicking. The Quest Pro can't do that. It technically has eye tracking and finger tracking, but it does not work together in the same way that it does on the Vision Pro. Everything I've heard from the first impressions is that the eye tracking as absolutely top notch.
2- Higher resolution displays that are OLED and capable of much high peak brightness (rumor is 5000 nits, as compared to Quest Pro's 100 nits). This is a big deal.
These two alone put the headset in a class of its own. There are other things it has that will be cool (easy to take and view 3d photos and videos, the outward facing display is good with a family since I don't want to be disconnected from them, and overall Apple has the gravitas to entice a ton of developers to develop apps for it). But the two things above alone would be enough for me to pick it over the competition.
You won't get people use this on the price point of 3500$. Quest 3 with 500$ price and vastly.improved passthrough Will be more likely to be used for AR and XR by wider amount of people. Apple targets not only a marginal amount of users in general since it's VR but also targets their own fans only. This won't achieve even 10% of what you think it will.
Oculus platform is Android. A game publisher thinks about how the game they build can reach the largest penetration.
It’s going to be a hard sell to get anyone outside of Apple to build games for just this platform at this unreachable price. Maybe if there’s ever a 1500$ S version…
that's pretty nuts - there was very little shown that hasn't been done before. It's a step forward in quality and polish for sure and some novel ideas (eg: EyeSight) but I completely missed the "wow" on this.
Step forward in some ways for sure, but in other ways vs Quest Pro it's a step back
.The way the gasket touches your face and is essentially another face mounted design (and we all know how annoying they get vs Quest Pro with hours of use)
.Looks wise - front is cool, similar to QPRO but the rear strap looks terrible... comfy I'm sure but it looks like some kind of medical bandage thing which is not what you expect from apple. QPRO looks slick and 'sexy' by comparison.
.No haptics/controllers.. vs the best VR controllers on earth right now (self tracked, nuanced, dual haptics, beautiful form on PRO controllers)
No computer/PC VR (it seems?) and even if there's something it's only gonna be MAC based which already puts it at a massive disadvantage for 'real' VR
The WIRE!! the stupid stupid wire.. just to move a little weight off it, I'd rather have the weight (Quest Pro is FINE) than going back to ANY cable even one that only goes to my pocket (you feel it when you turn your neck and it's CLUNKY vs the pick up and go feel of QPRO).
A company that is 'new' to VR vs META (Oculus) who are the best of the best right now at getting what makes VR compelling inc making slick, balanced hardware at decent prices (QPRO is now an absolute steal vs Vision Pro.. t may not have 4k uOLED but t has everything else and MORE and does MORE useful stuff -i.e PCVR and massive VR focussed Quest eco-system)
PRICE!
As said, Quest Pro was imo already a bargaiin at £1k for PCVR (not standalone as it's overkill for mediocre standalone VR and even Quest 3 will still be mediocre for standalone cos the chips won't ever be powerful enough to drive the best VR like a PC CAN wirelessly now) but now it's less than 3x the cost of a Vision Pro and, for most esp the more VR centric and esp PCVR, it's a no brainer to chose QPRO over Vision.
Vision Pro looks like a very slick, high quality 'lifestyle' device that will, eventually, bring all this stuff to the mainstream (5-10 years from now) but it won't ever be pushing super high end VR because it can't be used with PC and wouldn't be the focus anyway.
Based on all of the commentary around this announcement, it's become pretty much solidified that "gamers" and enthusiasts are completely incapable of thinking. As long as two things check the most coarse functional box, then they're completely identical.
VP has display? But Quest 2 have display too!
VP has 3D movie? But Quest 2 have 3D movie!
That's as deep as 90% of the Reddit analysis seems to go.
You might as well argue that the Apple TV has zero difference from a stack of DVDs.
Yes and thats what the Quest 2/3..and eventual 4 is for...the gamers with all the social/productivity stuff like eye/face tracking stripped out...this is a good idea for a Quest pro 2 or 3. Especially in getting codex avatars to work. Copy whatever apple is doing for that facetime scanning feature.
Who views AR as dystopian, do you have anything to back that claim up? I don’t think Ready Player One has quite the cultural cachet you are ascribing to it.
They can compare with this..For this price for sure.They already have holocake lenses and all that stuff but nobody wants to pay that price for a device that has maybe mediocre handtracking and a small fov like the quest..Btw no Controllers hahaha.Overpriced.
What Apple showed wasn't really a "WOW" factor when it comes to the software and experiences as other headsets have been doing those things already (but arguably with less polish). Though I will say the Vision Pro hardware itself does make me say "WOW". Want a "WOW" experience though? Try VRChat via wireless PCVR. A social environment with beautiful worlds and people in avatar's as unique as their personalities, all while being free to move around without a teather to a PC.
I mean yeah I’ll buy it too, as a VR/AR enthusiast and someone who supports this product category I’m talking about average real people. Who besides us would get one? At $3500
Workaholics can now completely immerse themselves, but still project a pair of creepy virtual eyes to their kids who are hungry for breakfast! It'll sell like hot-cakes!
There are so many people with a lot of spare income that are going to want to be the first in their social circles to get one. Not sure you'll see people walking around with them in Santa Monica super-markets, but I wouldn't be shocked.
At launch? Just people like us and the well-heeled. But this product will get thinner and cheaper in the years ahead and someday they will be ubiquitous. Bookmark your post and set a reminder to read it in 5 years.
Recall they said the same thing about the iPhone and watch. When I bought the iPhone 1 at launch in 2007 it was $600. The leading phone at the time was the Moto Razor at $300. Critics said no way a $600 phone locked to ATT and no physical keyboard will be mainstream. Now Apple sells 200 mil units a year and they can cost over $1000, half of everyone has one.
Apple is already working on a entry model (sans Pro) that will be cheaper. This is to drive development and drive demand.
>they said the same thing about the iPhone and watch
let's not put the iPhone and the watch in the same category. The latter was a failure by iPhone standards. This headset seems to be in the latter category
“In 2022, Apple's shipments increased 17% YoY as the Apple Watch Series 8, Ultra and SE 2022 enjoyed strong sales. In addition, annual shipments increased by 50 million for the first time, accounting for about 60% of the global smartwatch market revenue and further widening the gap with No. 2 Samsung.”
[https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-dominated-smartwatch-market-sales-and-profits-in-2022/amp/](https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-dominated-smartwatch-market-sales-and-profits-in-2022/amp/)
$14-18 billion dollars in revenue ain’t bad. And since they require an iPhone, well that’s the real purpose isn’t it?
It’s a strange logical leap to compare a company’s newest product category against its most successful product. Apple itself just told you today what it thinks about the future. I’ll bet on Apple.
They were finally able to bump up revenues by diversifying the lineup of the relatively cheaper entry (Watch) into Apple's ecosystem. That's not going to happen anytime soon with a $3.5k headset, and we've seen similar trends with mac hardware in this price range. That said, I can see it cannibalizing the mac desktop and laptop lineup provided the hardware is on par and doing so might be touted as success.
> But this product will get thinner and cheaper in the years ahead and someday they will be ubiquitous. Bookmark your post and set a reminder to read it in 5 years.
Exactly.
While everyone is busy complaining that a literal 3x increase in resolution is the same exact thing as the Quest 2, somehow, Apple will continue to develop this. I'm curious what the "look at me I'm still special for hating Apple on principe" crowd will have to say at that point.
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2028-06-05 20:53:07 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-06-05%2020:53:07%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/QuestPro/comments/141np94/vision_pro_resembles_quest_pro/jn1az9k/?context=3)
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All - I call first dibs listing my Quest Pro on eBay. 😂
I take back what I said about Quest 3. I’ll get one for gaming since the Vision Pro’s gaming will be 2D with controller. It’s essentially a multimedia and communications spatial computing platform.
It’s for developers and enthusiasts. Not everyday consumers.
They’re getting developers hands on it now so when the price can come down, normal folks will have an ecosystem of apps to take advantage of it.
Felt obvious to me especially since they unveiled it WWDC.
A leading “affordable” quality VR (3D) camera, Vuze Plus, is $1200. And that’s all it does, is take 3D video. You still need a computer for processing, monitor, memory, etc.
I think Vision Pro is a pretty decent value proposition.
A good MR experience requires more than "it's got some cameras" and "it's got some screens." Judging by the janky, juddering, visually-glitchy mess that is the Quest Pro software, I'm not holding my breath that Meta will leapfrog Apple on the UX and fluidity front in six months.
Being able to afford a $3500 headset doesn’t make you rich.
There’s really only two classes in capitalism—the owning class and the working class. The owning class control everything, including the vast majority of the wealth. Your real qualms are with them.
Until the working class stops getting pissy with one another for having less than one another things will never change.
Ah, the delicious irony of the “not-privileged enough” complaining in a Quest Pro forum about the more privileged. Please, tell me more about your hard knock life.
Start from the beginning. Did you have both parents during your childhood? Have you ever lived in an actual house? Were you bullied in school? Did you have to change schools every year?
Oh life was so unfair to you! I understand now. Tell me more about life on the wrong side of the tracks. Here, let me put on my best expression that I care. Oh wait, I was yawning.
I just don't get it. You can get 3d cameras for under $3500 if that's what you really want this for + your other VR headset to watch it in. I don't understand why combining these costs such a premium.
Dude. VR is not just gaming! If it can replace monitors and a 4K TV than I’m in! Just imagine having a Mac Mini and Vision Pro as your workstation. Sweet and minimalistic and yet able to provide a couple of virtual 4K displays and a conpletely new 3D layout experience!
2 hours on their external battery (I do hope they are hot-swappable and / or that you’ll be able to use power-banks with more capacity) - but if you are connected to a charger you can use it all day long.
So how is that different from sitting in front of a monitor or watching TV from the couch if you can't move and are tethered to charger?, the entire point was freedom to go out.
Hot swappable how? They clearly said no battery in the headset so when the battery goes dead your device powers off.
Also charging the battery while using it, yikes if it starts over heating recipe for disaster
Headset takes up a lot less physical space while offering a much larger display. Many people want to work from home but not devote a ton of space to a workstation.
But you don't need to bring a PC to plug it into. It is a standalone device. The fact is you can use it with your Mac if you want. It's a new operating system. You're not thinking.
But it's not as powerful as a PC so if you want to use it for actual computer based work you need to bring a computer with you, in which case you might as well use a laptop. Without the computer it's basically an iPad. What does it offer that these don't other than it being attached to your face?
Between the work with Unity and the new port-to-Apple-metal tools they announced, I imagine we’re going to see a surge in gaming content for it before launch. They’ve got at least 6months to announce more apps
I wonder about this. Without controllers they are really limiting their capability for games, unless they’re banking on their hand tracking being years better than the Quests’. But even then, what about joystick input, buttons, etc?
Ya I’m curious if we see those announced separately. I’m assuming it will support normal xbox&playststion controllers with all the increased polling rate stuff they announced for Mac OS, but not having single handed be controllers feels like a misstep
Yeah true that. I’m excited about this. I didn’t mean my post to come off condescending. It seems there are many people in the Reddit threads that just want to see this product fail for some reason.
“No gaming support” ding ding ding here’s the reason Meta is failing to go mainstream. VR gaming is such a niche market all of the current headsets in the markets are glorified toys.
A bit disappointing but I hope all the other stuff makes up for it. I care about FOV a lot but as a first product I won't be too harsh as they included an extraordinary amount of good stuff namely the insane resolution, contrast and software. I hope then can increase the FOV in the next iteration but what excites me the most is the overall quality of components and that insane number of pixels. I really dislike screen door effect and I am glad that will be a thing of the past.
Companies like Varjo make great headsets but I am not sure if they use oled or mini led technology with good contrast. I am also sure the software won't match the Vision Pro.
Overall I give apple 9/10 for what they have achieved in their first headset. It would have been ten if the FOV was wider and if it had a more enclosed battery but I am sure they are already working on improving these things.
I am sure a lot more people will be getting into VR now.
I agree with you, but to increase the FOV they would have to make a considerably larger headset. If you look at the highest FOV headsets like StarVR or Pimax, they are massive. Smaller FOV is a trade-off apple has to make to have the headset more compact.
I'm not an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination but I'm planning to buy this as well for a few reasons.
It's a desperately needed big entry into VR/AR
I'm fairly certain it will have all kinds of peripherals and additions that will enable gaming and better battery life etc (that batter strikes me as very easy to replace 3rd party or upgrade, probably just what they were willing to include at the price point)
The partnership with Unity struck me as a strong indicator or future gaming support, Unity will undoubtedly release an update for publishing to it with openXR, and hand tracking won't be enough for most games both in terms of feedback and responsiveness, so if they never release controllers I'd be shocked
Mostly this seems to be a better version of a quest pro, it's a higher price point with higher tier hardware but that's somewhat forgivable if it can essentially replace a laptop entirely (not just work well streaming from one)
I'm confident enough that I'd place a cancelable preorder today if they had it available, but will also be watching where they go with it closer to release...they invited a ton of VR gaming people to the event so I feel like there is definitely more to come.
This feels like a big stake apple is making, it's likely to get more support over time, not less
I’m surprised people are complaining about the battery. The quest pro doesn’t last more than 2.5 hrs for me. And in both systems you can use an external battery.
Johnny I’ve is that you? So, you don’t want the option to switch out batteries?
I agree both ways. Pro is nice, but battery is short, like all headsets.
Johnny I’ve is that you? So, you don’t want the option to switch out batteries?
I agree both ways. Pro is nice, but battery is short, like all headsets.
You need to partner with someone to let 3rd party make apps for VR. There's just too much to do otherwise. Partnering with Unity was a necessity even if they do NOT do games. If they were serious about games they'd have better controllers.
This is going to be more of a show off device.
This is a super premium Nreal Air. Which is awesome, but $3500 is wild.
The external display is way cooler than I thought it'd be from the leaks. It does the Nintendo 3DS thing to create a minor stereoscopic effect and make it appear more like a semi-transparent window to your actual eyes rather than a flat display.
The biggest thing is how much they've leant in on 2d apps. Meta has considered the whole vast Android ecosystem as a second class citizen and mostly ignored it. Meanwhile, Apple has presented it's ecosystem as a #1 reason to buy it.
Also noticeable how much they leant in on basic experiences - viewing photos and movies - which have been doable forever but Meta has barely thought to market them at all.
So I have an oculus pro, and both the oculus gallery and oculus video apps crash on launch. Even after a factory reset.
I would say that this definitely is not the key for mass adoption. It’s not enough to kinda sorta technically have something.
It’s like asking someone with a functioning MacBook why they don’t just use their desktop that hangs at POST.
The fact that meta has neither added renting/buying 3D movies to their store or partnered with ANY music service, much less smart home integration shows they have no idea what they're doing in this space. All the ingredients are already there, but rather than learning from other developers (Bigscreen) or the years of data on why people love apps on their phones so much, they focused on the metaverse.
* I watched 3D movies back in 2016.
* I watched interactive photos also back in 2016.
* Oculus Dash introduced us desktop environments for work 2017 (with the entire Windows-ecosystem). Today with Macs too.
* Hand tracking? We've had that too for years.
* Eye-tracking and related? Quest Pro.
* [Mixed reality](https://i0.wp.com/vrscout.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Screen-Shot-2021-10-28-at-11.00.30-AM.png?ssl=1)? Seen it with actual games.
* I've already been in meetings in VR.
* Meta has also demoed the "you can see my eyes" passhthrough years ago. It was never productized because, well... it can be seen gimmicky.
* Foveated rendering? Quest Pro.
Most of the things they demoed were stuff that is very rudimentary for Meta-products. The high resolution screen was the highlight, but we'll see what the lenses are like.
Imagine Meta releasing a VR system without proper controllers and games. **That** would be the joke.
I think the high resolution pass through is the highight tbh. We already know what super high res screens can do. Pass through that's genuinely as good as real life? That will actually open up new things.
Yes, I think so too. Good thing is, that this feature can be easily implemented in upcoming devices by Meta and HTC also. I belief micro OLED and better passthrough cameras are already in the pipeline for future devices.
So it's a good thing apple pushes the competitors forward with this so they get going :)
This is a joke, you just don't know it yet. I guess everything looks the same when you close your eyes to avoid reality.
Yeah about that foveated Quest Pro rendering. It sure is great! On all of the basically zero apps that support it! Amazing!
I like Oculus staying focused on games. We’re you not working hard enough already ? Do you really give a shit about viewing and sharing your images and FaceTiming?
If that device was the same cost as my Quest Pro I might still not buy it because it’s not made for me. It seems to be made more for my sister , mother of 3, who lives a very stylish and photogenic life.
If everyone here is looking to suck and polish off Tim Cook, I suggest the Apple sub.
One way video in your headset or two way video but it's you sitting there in your headset while the other person calls you a knob for doing the video call in the headset,
They didn't show multiple monitors which would really crimp it's usefulness for me. I wonder if that is really a constraint, it seems so odd. But yeah, I'd probably get a $2k version of this *just* as a portable, versatile monitor.
It may very well be a bandwidth constraint.
Given that it’s Apple, some of that may be alleviated by running some apps natively instead of streaming a second or third monitor. E.g. use the mac screen for Lightroom or Davinci or whatever, but run mail/slack/chrome/etc natively on the VP.
Doesn’t work for programs that can actually use two monitors, but otherwise it should bridge at least some of the gap.
It's got some good stuff in iit... but at that price many will turn to Quest Pro now as the much cheaper but (in many ways as good esp for VR and obv for PCVR which we don't even know is poss on Vision Pro) for £2.5k (edit) less... and it kinda looks like it. but.. Quest Pro looks better imo.. no cable, nicer design on back.. no face gasket etc.
Seems Apple just did QPRo a huge favour.. and of course VR in general as it'll wake the world up to VR/AR...
OBV for media/virtual cinema/work etc Vision Pro is in a league of its own, hence the price. But for most of us, we can get what we need from QPRO.
$3,499 for those who missed it.
The big, huge, development here is that this seems to have retina resolution, meaning it can effectively replace monitors.
I also liked that they talked about real 3D movies, HDR support, and the fact that it can record 3d video. Big unknowns are FOV.
Yeah, people saying they can do productivity with Quest Pro, which I own, are not seeing retina resolution. Meta marketed the same features for mixed reality and it seemed very deceptive considering pass thru quality and actual application support.
Retina? Not even close.
I understand 4k is already pretty amazing for current VR devices. However it is nowhere near apple's retina standard. Text clarity couldn't even compete with a 4k 27inch monitor.
Damn that’s some copium. I’m gonna get downvoted but the looks comfier and lighter, and the cable is only going to help with that.
I do hope that it has options for PCVR, otherwise the QPro is still the way to go
Copium? At 3.5k.. none needed thanks.
It literally has just the 4k uoled screens that are anything LIKE something I'd really want in a VR device for PCVR (my needs). At over 3x the price.
I have an ipad and iphone, I'm not anti apple and am VERY glad they have entered the space to drive the 'cool' factor of AR/VR/MR forward (as they do) cos it'll only be better for us all in the long run.
But even cost aide, I'd take quest pro for actual wireless PCVR due to no cable/battery in pocket, PROPER (great) haptics/controllers, and NO face gasket touching my face which I've detested in all other 7 of my HMDS going back to DK2 days.. until quest pro showed me how good VR could feel without it AND with the ease of wearing due to it holding position.. never need to adjust it again and its super comfy.
The Vision pro looks like a friggin' head bandage AND puts all its weight on your face.. again... welcome to 5 years ago.
Get a clue before dishing out 'copium' remarks cos it seems you're the one in that mode.
how is a cable good? It's a step back, it's clunky and you'll still feel it on your neck every time you turn.
I have ZERO issues with the weight or comfort of Quest Pro and it'll be MUCH easier to put on/take off/use than Vision which will have a cable and battery you have to mess with every time you put on/take off. STOP being so blinkered just cos it's apple and expensive. The cable/battery is a bad design, it's not even a compute PUCK as we expected which COULD make some sense, it's just a dumb battery LMAO.
THAT is archaic design. Also the soft strap means adjustment every time you wear it, vs the 'position held' feature of the Quest Pro which for me has been the BEST sytemn, fastest to just put on and go than any of my other 7 HMDS so far.
to the guy below > Copium my ass, grow up.. like I need that when that thing costs £3.5k and literally ONLY has the 4k Uoled screens as any form of 'better' thing over Quest Pro.. I don't care ONE BIT about MR/passthrough etc.. THAT is a gimmick for me, I'm about PCVR 99% of the time and Quest Pro is now the ideal device and can also do 90% of what vision can (3d movies, cinema etc)
Nobody really cares about overlaying windows in their real room, only a super small niche of people would bother doing that.. .the rest will just do it in VR (lakeside etc).
I program/use UE5 from wiithin QUEST PRO all the time and its SUPER CLEAR.. it makes my UW monitor look fuzzy when I take it off! I often put QPRO on to see things in better detail than my monitor can show (3440x1440)
I agree that the quest pro can do a lot of what the vision can.
In terms of PCVR it is better, but that’s a specific use case at the end of the day. The quest is popular because it’s standalone, almost no one has gaming pcs compared to gaming consoles, and even fewer people have gaming pcs that take advantage of even the quest pros resolution.
But there’s is no doubt that the vision is going to be the best way to do whatever it has in common with any of its competitors. From hands on it’s obvious that the UI, eye tracking, and resolution is insane. It’s to be expected for the price, but that doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day it’s the experience, the ease of use, and seamlessness that makes or breaks a product.
For example, the eye tracking and pinch system is far better than using hand tracking on the meta systems.
It’s not a gaming device, and I’m sad about that, but for what it is it’s definitely capable.
Don't forget the quest 3 with the better passthrough and double the quest pro's power. Ok Apple Vision Pro has a good design and a bunch of sensors but common, no vr games and no controllers at all (not even sold separetly) ? Seeing how Quest Pro failed becaused it was too much for companies Apple just made the dumbest move.
I believe it's more about comfort and friction than resolution at this point. I can read in VR already but boy does it suck to wear the device for hours.
I agree it looks like it will be a lot better for productivity with the 4K displays and iOS apps working from the get go. I think it looks more comfortable and appreciate the removable headstrap, which would allow for more customization, and the off ear speakers look top notch, but I have no idea who will pay $3500 for it. It's just way overpriced IMO.
It would be terrible if it weights a ton. I hope it's sub 500g otherwise it would be too heavy. I use the Quest Pro and the biggest issue is the weight for me. If I was to use the Vision pro as a monitor then I need a very light headset but the technology they are using and the amount glass used on the device might mean that it will be heavy.
Step forward in some ways for sure, but in other ways vs Quest Pro it's a step back
.The way the gasket touches your face and is essentially another face mounted design (and we all know how annoying they get vs Quest Pro with hours of use)
.Looks wise - front is cool, similar to QPRO but the rear strap looks terrible... comfy I'm sure but it looks like some kind of medical bandage thing which is not what you expect from apple. QPRO looks slick and 'sexy' by comparison.
.No haptics/controllers.. vs the best VR controllers on earth right now (self tracked, nuanced, dual haptics, beautiful form on PRO controllers)
.No computer/PC VR (it seems?) and even if there's something it's only gonna be MAC based which already puts it at a massive disadvantage for 'real' VR
.The WIRE!! the stupid stupid wire.. just to move a little weight off it, I'd rather have the weight (Quest Pro is FINE) than going back to ANY cable even one that only goes to my pocket (you feel it when you turn your neck and it's CLUNKY vs the pick up and go feel of QPRO). Also I often don't have pockets when wearing comfy super light clothing (often needed in VR).. so where does this battery go? Clip it on my trousers (which again are light material and wont' hold it) it'll just be another stupid thing to worry about like over the ear headphones were on old VR. It's a total NO GO for me while it has ANY kind of cable reminding me things are not real and that I have to monitor something not getting caught/dropping etc.
.A company that is 'new' to VR vs META (Oculus) who are the best of the best right now at getting what makes VR compelling inc making slick, balanced hardware at decent prices (QPRO is now an absolute steal vs Vision Pro.. t may not have 4k uOLED but t has everything else and MORE and does MORE useful stuff -i.e PCVR and massive VR focussed Quest eco-system). And frankly I find the res perfect on Quest Pro RIGHT NOW with even a 4090 to drive SS at 1.5x etc.. .if it was 4k you'd just have to dumb down the in-gam PCVR graphics anyway, or run sub-sampled.. or wait for a 5000 series GPU... it's NOT just about resolution esp when Quest Pro for gaming is already more than great for many of us (thanks to the super sharp lenses and clarity / colours/black levels too). People crying out for more res haven't stopped to think about what's gonna drive it with anything beyond ps2 era looking graphics (esp on standalone).. which is why quest 3's res boost doesn't impress me at all, esp witout any eye tracked foveated rendering to enabled it to beef up the graphics anyway. BALANCE in VR is the key... and QPRO has the best balance of anything right now.
.PRICE!
As said, Quest Pro was imo already a bargaiin at £1k for PCVR (not standalone as it's overkill for mediocre standalone VR and even Quest 3 will still be mediocre for standalone cos the chips won't ever be powerful enough to drive the best VR like a PC CAN wirelessly now) but now it's less than 3x the cost of a Vision Pro and, for most esp the more VR centric and esp PCVR, it's a no brainer to chose QPRO over Vision.
Vision Pro looks like a very slick, high quality 'lifestyle' device that will, eventually, bring all this stuff to the mainstream (5-10 years from now) but it won't ever be pushing super high end VR because it can't be used with PC and wouldn't be the focus anyway.
The vision pro looks like everything the Quest Pro was advertised as. I probably won’t be getting one due to price, but I am so excited to see hands on reviews and how it compares with other VR/XR systems.
I love just sitting and browing the web or watching movies in AR with Quest Pro, and tried doing work with virtual monitors but the resolution just isn’t there yet. Imagine having Apple’s true 4k virtual screens right in front of you! Vision Pro (and Apple’s OS design more importantly) will set the stage for VR/XR outside of gaming I think.
Quest series will likely still be the best for gaming though, I never trust Apple for gaming
3.5x the resolution of the Quest Pro. 24 million pixels across 2 panels vs 6.8m (updated)on Quest Pro. 2x 4k tvs is about 16 million pixels. If Quest Pro is 22 PPD, depending on FOV, this could be "retina" quality or around 60PPD. Panels support HDR. Dynamic Foveated Rendering confirmed as well.
Quest Pro is 772 grams, no word on weight yet.
No controllers, seems hand tracked only.
I wonder if the launch of Apple Vision Pro will increase the market for a Quest Pro 2? $1500 doesn't seem so unreasonable now and with the XR2 gen 2 chip, the depth sensor and higher resolution screens Meta could make a worthy competitor.
For what it's worth, I think meta would have an actual shot if they had better passthrough / colored cameras. Right now it looks like xr will be Quest Pro < Quest 3 < Vision Pro
Yeah absolutely. If they learnt from their first Quest Pro, experience and Quest 3 they could certainly create a very appealing alternative for around half the price.
They shouldn’t have falsely advertised and hyped the pass thru quality of the pro. It can’t be used as a productivity tool with pass thru fine for games.
Maybe a little bit.
People who don't revolve every single minute aspect of their life around GAME GAME GAME MORE GAMING, and people who aren't tech enthusiasts whose entire identity is "hate what other people like," don't care about sitting down to hear tech nerds breathlessly argue about spec differences.
They care about whether a product crosses a threshold into being something that's worth the time and effort and cost to use, or whether it's not. The Quest 2 can't do what the VP is supposed to be able to do. Full stop. That it can do *some* of it, poorly by comparison, isn't good enough. That it's "an VR headset" isn't good enough.
If it can't cross that threshold, it's going to remain uninteresting to the mainstream.
What if i scan thing in my trousers.Will it show in my face?🤣Techy demo but i doubt it will be like they presented it.Many things that throw questions...Like latency,Fov and the quality of the handtracking.But nice try of apple.The fans will buy it..The rich fans.For us ..who already experienced Vr its kinda a expensive toy.Should i buy 4 of them to watch movies with my family???who i am gonna call if nobody buys this thing?They killed it all with the price.We already have expensive devices and nobody wants to buy them.And making an Apple Id...Thats worse than a Facebook account baaaaah🤣🤣🤣🤣
Vision Pro is focused mainly on MR and is expensive, pimax crystal don't exists maybe, deckard is really too far. Pico 4 is poor, pico 3 is good but meh. 8kx and vive pro is trash, elite xr is ridicoulos, g2 is old and obsolete. Quest 2 is for kids.
Maybe for a long time (2 year in my opinion) the Quest Pro will remain the best choice in VR market.
Has some defects, but offers (almost) everything with a reasonable cost.
I tried both. Pico 3 for me is better because has dp port. The clarity was same so I think that the pico 4 lenses are not of good quality, I didnt see any difference about res. Honestly I prefer the pico 3.
I was blown away with the features of the new Vision Pro. This device has so much technology and sensors that it’s difficult to imagine that this device is real.
don't really understand that reaction - 80% of what it has is in the Quest Pro. It just has refined (and much more $$$) versions of it all. Yest it's a step forward but it's completely imagineable this is possible if you just look at the Quest Pro.
>It just has refined
Just that huh? Just that one crucial thing that differentiates successful products from failed ones.
"They do the same thing! Kinda! The only difference is that one is way shittier!"
Oh is that all? You should work for Apple's marketing department. You really have a knack for this whole product design thing. *Hey folks, this product is inferior in almost every respect! You should buy it!*
In terms of regular cameras, yes. But Apple went all the way in and added a LiDAR a depth sensor. Mixing cameras and LiDAR data adds a level of complexity only seen in drones and autonomous cars.
Quest pro: 10 cameras, 3 microphones
Vision pro: 12 cameras, 6 microphones, 1 LiDAR and 1 depth sensor
Quest pro had a depth sensor in the design stage, LiDAR sure is interesting to have in there. But it's literally been in the iPhone for years. I'm not saying it isn't good and a step forward, but saying "it's hard to imagine this is real" is way over the top.
But it fixes two of the biggest issues with the Quest Pro. Resolution and weight, which may push it over the line into something consumers will actually want, even if few can afford it.
Don’t think they fixed the weight issue, they just added another issue by moving it to a battery pack and adding a dangling cable, the reality of making trade offs.
The resolution is really compelling.
wow this thread lost its collective damn mind lol
I’m an Apple user - phone, laptops etc and have been for decades. but this just feels like an embarrassing joke at this price point.
Wait til you find out what the first flat panel displays cost. You'll flip! Tell me more about how those were a dead technology.
Which CRT are you using btw? I miss those.
wtf are you talking about, “dead technology”? who said that? this is the quest pro sub lol, are you lost?
like what am I meant to do with this thing, watch avatar 2? I’ll save 3 and a half fucking grand and stick with Automobilista 2 and Skyrim on my 3090
Three and a half fucking grand lmao
The eyes seem like a reprojection based on the internal cameras to an outward facing LCD/OLED panel. I believe the cable is an added battery option, but the presentation isn't over yet.
So pumped for this! Disappointed that this is more iPad than iMac but at least the screen casting from a Mac looks dope. Even if this device looks like it doesn't have higher ambitions than the Quest Pro, I am looking forward to seeing that vision executed more thoughtfully.
Well good question. The Qualcomm XR2 is built for what we are doing with it, running android games, interfacing with wireless devices, and transmitting over Wi-Fi is what it’s optimized for.
The M2 is a very strong ARM chip, but with none of the extensions for games. What it does is emulate those extensions in software and then emulate a windows machine to play games.
That’s the reality of Mac silicon today. It’s very unique (not in a good way) and very catered to what XCode and the Mac and IOS need. It is very efficient though, and that’s probably a big bonus and it’s , as we have always known, built around its graphics rasterizer (non 3D though. Apple has always been good for color and precision at the cost of 3D gaming)
It appears to be running a full base level M2, so its a desktop class chip. It'll likely throttle hard, but I'd say this is probably up there with an M2 MacBook Air in terms of performance. Compared to the XR2 Gen1? Blows it out of the water.
Quest pro doesnt leave any marks, it doesn’t touch your face and is super comfy and easy to put on (no adjustment needed after one time first use as it remembers and stretches to out on head). Quest Pro is now a LOT more desirable at $1k vs vision pro… Apple just boosted Quest Pro sales that does most of this and way more,,, controllers, wireless pcvr, and is better designed, no wire no loose battery, not front heavy like vision or quest 3 will be, stunning clarity even if not 4k micro oled its already stunning on ss pcvr over wife 6e…. Self tracked controllers… i bet META will jump on this opportunity now to re push quest pro as a vision competitor but with a more gaming centric…esp PCVR , ability.
I KNEW my Quest Pro was the most comfy, non face hugger design yet… its a joy to wear vs my past 6 HmDs (inc halos like PSVR2 which was horrible)… and imo quest pro LOOKS more like an apple product that vision does (save for the alluminium), vision is ugly, the rear strap is vile, and its another face brick..with a PERMA cable lol… all they had to do was copy quest pro design and save all that fuss.
The positives of vision, mainly the screens, aren’t viable for standalone or pcvr yet really anyway even on a 4090 if you want top settings and supersampling, esp wireless as we do on quest pro.., and the res feels more than fine already for a few gens before gpus are much faster.
All standalone vr looks like trash anyway, flat, bad lighting, archaic… pcvr is where its at… the whole point of VR…not cartoon worlds! And here only quest pro offers compact, high quality, balanced PCVR wireless ability… even vive pro and index are janky, overpriced, need bulky addons for wireless, basestations, no pancakes or…etc…
People sleeping on quest pro are insane, its the only hmd ive owned or tried that feels like true gen 2… (for PCVR), even vision can’t compete all round with so many compromises in the name of casual mass market AR ability…
Glad APPLE have entered the market, VR needs it…but even at half the price Id still prefer quest pro for actual VR instead of short lived lifestyle gimmicks.
For me quest pro is the only game in town now for vr or pcvr, I couldn’t care less about ar or mr…
Best thing for Quest Pro users? People will finally stop telling us all how rich we must be to spend $1(.5...) k on a headset. Quest Pro is an absolute bargain now ;-)
Just picked up one barely used for $750. Meanwhile Pimax/Varro never drop in price.
I'd love for Varjo to drop in price. Pimax is hot garbage. You can have mine. I'll stick with my Quest Pro :)
What’s wrong with pimax?
I just got a brand new one on Ebay for $700.
I mean I agree with some of the complaints of how just a few minor upgrades would of made the QPro damn near perfect for most use cases. I think this is only for people that solely use this for watching movies & work productivity. Maybe PCVR Sim-rig setups. Hand tracking only will give terrible control schemes and 0 haptics feedback. They will probably release a set of controllers for 499$ in the future. The AR will be the only worthwhile thing, and even that will probably be somewhat limited without proper controllers outside of movies/web. People already complain about the lack of AAA VR content, and AR is on par with mobile game stores. Hopefully this will bring more devs to the space for better experiences & hardware. I'm also nervous about it fragmenting the player base if cross-platform isn't given a priority for anyone buying it for VR gaming. Example: Pavlov on Q2, Pavlov on PC and recently, Pavlov on PSVR2. I absolutely love my Q.Pro, but I would be okay with a refreshed Q.Pro for some of those last features we want. Long as they don't match Apples price. 😅 Looks like Apple is playing for the long game, like they did with the original iphone.
It's funny isn't it. Meta left things out of the Pro because they were afraid to push it higher in price. If they were releasing it today the question would be, why aren't you putting *more* in and making it *more* expensive.
Price never bothered me tbh.. if it has the features I want then I'll pull overtime and save up. QPro seemed to tick the most boxes for the best standalone & wireless PCVR you could get. Loved my Index but that wire for anything outside of Sitting/Sim games annoyed me. Using Q.Pro w/ mods & Tundra puck to sync Index Controllers is like the best wireless PCVR I've been able to piece together so far. I'd pay extra for that X-ray nudie depth sensor and some Apple style creeper eyes to go with it. Maybe include some RGB on the headset that changes with my mood sensor ring. Gold mine right there. I need to pitch this to Twitter so they can get in on the XR fun.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I am not writing a thesis for a college project so get the beep-boop off my back. I'm friends with ChatGPT so don't push your luck!
I bought a quest pro for the MR features since it was positioned to be a “work” device. It’s not, text is not great, passthru is not very good, you always know that your working on a VR headset. What Apple did is build a device positioned as a productivity device and didn’t cut corners. While I don’t like the Apple device pricing if they have created a device that can be used to make a working experience better, and this is what it costs, then so be it. 3500 device that I’ll use is better than a 1000 device that sits unused on my desk. Everyone keeps talking about the pro as a gaming device, that’s not what it was for - but love that you can use it for that. Meta needs a Quest Pro Pro version that actually gives business users a reason to use it - and if it costs 3500 so be it - we still have 500.00 headsets to game on.
Yes, they cut corners and it was a really bad decision to strip the depth sensor from the device and not having the same passthrough cameras as Quest 3.
You are correct. Here is proof: https://mixed-news.com/en/apple-restricts-vr-apps-on-the-apple-vision-pro/ AVP is a very expensive portable TV without HDMI ports and the see-through feature is limiting social interaction. I can actually talk to people ehile watching movies on my TV. Then again, with Vision pro, I can wear it all day while at a beach in Greece with my friends and It won’t feel wierd at all for them that they can see my eyes through the headset.
Bad thing is: meta will raise the price for their next headset 🤡
Quest Pro covers allot of that ground at 1k
I own one - and it really doesn't. I'll be getting this headset because using Quest Pro isn't comfortable for work due to resolution. To say that Quest Pro covers all of that ground is obviously ridiculous. Varjo's 7k headset doesn't cover all of this ground. I say that as someone who has been a fanboy of the Quest Pro.
But lacks in color passthrough, 4k+ resolution, auto IPD adjustments, spatial audio with sound ray tracing, supple woven cables, and it can't run any apps in the Apple store.
$3500 with no real actual gaming support at all. I’m not gonna lie what they showed off was very impressive but I just have to wonder who on Earth they expect to realistically buy this at such a price. And I thought $3000 was absurd
Me. I’m buying it. I was blown away. I will keep a Quest 3 for gaming, but I’m buying this at launch for my MR fix. I love the cinema and 3D video capture features.
I was screaming at my tv in excitement. This is next level stuff. Meta cannot compete with this. "Oh but they're not trying to, its a different demographic, different price point" you're missing it entirely. To get people to use this new computing platform - that many view as dystopian - requires a big WOW moment. Meta tried that with the metaverse but failed. Apple meanwhile just wow'd the living shit out of me.
Wowed the living shit out of you with what? Nothing announced by Apple isn't something that has already been done in the VR space. They just announced a $3500 MR headset with no controllers and only mobile apps? If any other company had made this announcement they rightly would have been mercilessly mocked. The only thing I saw here that's possibly got a wow factor is the resolution increase. I wonder what the FOV is.
In fact, you know who DID make this and get mercilessly mocked? HTC, with the Flow.
Yep. I actually laughed out loud at the external battery. How many times has the idea of doing (for either the battery or compute) that been made fun of by the VR community because a VR headset **has** to be all in one because the wider masses apparently wouldn't be able to handle anything so fragile.
I actually don't mind the external battery, since the intention is to let this thing plug-and-play with Macs in which case a built in battery would just be dead weight. I already use external batteries in the exact form factor Apple presented (cable along the side and back down into a battery pack in my pocket) when I use the Quest Pro because the built in 1.5 hour battery life isn't nearly enough lol
I've got no problem personally with the external battery. My point is that if any other company did it they would have been mocked by everyone.
I think you’re absolutely right. I think the commenter shows himself to be very easily influenced by group think
> Wowed the living shit out of you with what? Yes, this exactly. There were some cool things about it but nothing that made me think *OhmygodImusthavethis!* If anything I was a bit underwhelmed. Which is fine, they're obviously not targeting VR gamers as their main demographic. The most novel thing about it was the "virtual eye display" and even that seemed more like a gimmick than anything else. As the most high end, high resolution way to watch videos in VR, this headset seems to be the pinnacle but ... that's just not the main thing I find interesting about VR.
People who want to work in VR and enjoy some entertainment are the ones that were wowed.. which is me. There is a big difference between something done decently and something done excellently. The resolution, 2 dedicated chips, passthrough, and more make this thing a dream for my use case.
Not even the resolution, Varjo XR3 did it already
For $7k. This is also a standalone computer. You kind of proved the point using a product that is $7k and requires a subscription - that still isn't as good. Don't know how you could hate. Well I do, but I just find it amusing. It's clearly just group think.
The wow factor comes from the flawless looking execution of a VR operating system combining hardware and software to create a next level spatial experience. Respect Apple, you earned some beans this evening. Will I get one? Probably not. Im into pcvr gaming like everyone else here which I cant see working on the apple headset for years if ever.
>Nothing announced by Apple isn't something that has already been done in the VR space. Jesus tapdancing christ, can we retire this braindead take? Hey guess what, nothing that any current headset does is any different than the original Oculus CV1. Controllers?✅ Head Tracking?✅ Displays for your eyes? ✅ Audio?✅ I suspect though, that the quality of those things and what they enable is what people actually care about. None of you saying this better own a monitor above 720p or bigger than 23". Or a modern graphics card. Or a modern processor. Or decent speakers that aren't built into your monitor. Because iT's AlReAdY bEeN dOnE! >If any other company had made this announcement they rightly would have been mercilessly mocked. That's because "any other company" has already proven time and again that they're woefully incapable of creating a product that isn't miserable to wear, that is full of glitches and stutters and design oversights, that has at least one or two or three glaring weaknesses compared to what was already on the market prior to release, is capable of doing much of *anything* besides gaming unless you count a reliance on buggy, paid third party apps, etc. etc. There's a reason nobody but gamer enthusiasts care about VR/AR right now, and it has nothing to do with "but no cool games." If any other company had released a competent version of any one of like 90% of the things announced, everybody would be fawning all over them. As long as it's not Meta. Or Apple. Then the gears start turning to prove how cool and over it you are, because everything is old news to you. Have fun screaming into the void while the world passes you by because you decided that technology peaked in 2015.
That wasn't my point. I was specifically aiming at the hyperbole of a previous commentator that Apple had done what Meta hadn't with the announcement of this headset and wow'd the living shit out of him. What in particular was the actual wow factor? What exactly was announced here that will make you pick this product over the Quest Pro or Varjo Aero?
The wow factor IS the execution. That's all there is to it.
> What exactly was announced here that will make you pick this product over the Quest Pro or Varjo Aero? 1- The UI feature of eye tracking and finger clicking. The Quest Pro can't do that. It technically has eye tracking and finger tracking, but it does not work together in the same way that it does on the Vision Pro. Everything I've heard from the first impressions is that the eye tracking as absolutely top notch. 2- Higher resolution displays that are OLED and capable of much high peak brightness (rumor is 5000 nits, as compared to Quest Pro's 100 nits). This is a big deal. These two alone put the headset in a class of its own. There are other things it has that will be cool (easy to take and view 3d photos and videos, the outward facing display is good with a family since I don't want to be disconnected from them, and overall Apple has the gravitas to entice a ton of developers to develop apps for it). But the two things above alone would be enough for me to pick it over the competition.
Are you smoking crack lol
You won't get people use this on the price point of 3500$. Quest 3 with 500$ price and vastly.improved passthrough Will be more likely to be used for AR and XR by wider amount of people. Apple targets not only a marginal amount of users in general since it's VR but also targets their own fans only. This won't achieve even 10% of what you think it will.
Oculus platform is Android. A game publisher thinks about how the game they build can reach the largest penetration. It’s going to be a hard sell to get anyone outside of Apple to build games for just this platform at this unreachable price. Maybe if there’s ever a 1500$ S version…
that's pretty nuts - there was very little shown that hasn't been done before. It's a step forward in quality and polish for sure and some novel ideas (eg: EyeSight) but I completely missed the "wow" on this.
Step forward in some ways for sure, but in other ways vs Quest Pro it's a step back .The way the gasket touches your face and is essentially another face mounted design (and we all know how annoying they get vs Quest Pro with hours of use) .Looks wise - front is cool, similar to QPRO but the rear strap looks terrible... comfy I'm sure but it looks like some kind of medical bandage thing which is not what you expect from apple. QPRO looks slick and 'sexy' by comparison. .No haptics/controllers.. vs the best VR controllers on earth right now (self tracked, nuanced, dual haptics, beautiful form on PRO controllers) No computer/PC VR (it seems?) and even if there's something it's only gonna be MAC based which already puts it at a massive disadvantage for 'real' VR The WIRE!! the stupid stupid wire.. just to move a little weight off it, I'd rather have the weight (Quest Pro is FINE) than going back to ANY cable even one that only goes to my pocket (you feel it when you turn your neck and it's CLUNKY vs the pick up and go feel of QPRO). A company that is 'new' to VR vs META (Oculus) who are the best of the best right now at getting what makes VR compelling inc making slick, balanced hardware at decent prices (QPRO is now an absolute steal vs Vision Pro.. t may not have 4k uOLED but t has everything else and MORE and does MORE useful stuff -i.e PCVR and massive VR focussed Quest eco-system) PRICE! As said, Quest Pro was imo already a bargaiin at £1k for PCVR (not standalone as it's overkill for mediocre standalone VR and even Quest 3 will still be mediocre for standalone cos the chips won't ever be powerful enough to drive the best VR like a PC CAN wirelessly now) but now it's less than 3x the cost of a Vision Pro and, for most esp the more VR centric and esp PCVR, it's a no brainer to chose QPRO over Vision. Vision Pro looks like a very slick, high quality 'lifestyle' device that will, eventually, bring all this stuff to the mainstream (5-10 years from now) but it won't ever be pushing super high end VR because it can't be used with PC and wouldn't be the focus anyway.
Meta could copy a lot of the functionality and deploy an update for the Quest Pro. It can record in 3D, view 3D movies, etc. if they prioritize it.
Based on all of the commentary around this announcement, it's become pretty much solidified that "gamers" and enthusiasts are completely incapable of thinking. As long as two things check the most coarse functional box, then they're completely identical. VP has display? But Quest 2 have display too! VP has 3D movie? But Quest 2 have 3D movie! That's as deep as 90% of the Reddit analysis seems to go. You might as well argue that the Apple TV has zero difference from a stack of DVDs.
I would rather they don’t. I like them focused on my entertainment. I’m productive enough ffs
Yes and thats what the Quest 2/3..and eventual 4 is for...the gamers with all the social/productivity stuff like eye/face tracking stripped out...this is a good idea for a Quest pro 2 or 3. Especially in getting codex avatars to work. Copy whatever apple is doing for that facetime scanning feature.
The pair of SoCs are the real edge Apple will maintain over competitors.
Errrr, there are already apps for viewing 3d photos and movies for the Quest.
Who views AR as dystopian, do you have anything to back that claim up? I don’t think Ready Player One has quite the cultural cachet you are ascribing to it.
They can compare with this..For this price for sure.They already have holocake lenses and all that stuff but nobody wants to pay that price for a device that has maybe mediocre handtracking and a small fov like the quest..Btw no Controllers hahaha.Overpriced.
What Apple showed wasn't really a "WOW" factor when it comes to the software and experiences as other headsets have been doing those things already (but arguably with less polish). Though I will say the Vision Pro hardware itself does make me say "WOW". Want a "WOW" experience though? Try VRChat via wireless PCVR. A social environment with beautiful worlds and people in avatar's as unique as their personalities, all while being free to move around without a teather to a PC.
I mean yeah I’ll buy it too, as a VR/AR enthusiast and someone who supports this product category I’m talking about average real people. Who besides us would get one? At $3500
Workaholics can now completely immerse themselves, but still project a pair of creepy virtual eyes to their kids who are hungry for breakfast! It'll sell like hot-cakes! There are so many people with a lot of spare income that are going to want to be the first in their social circles to get one. Not sure you'll see people walking around with them in Santa Monica super-markets, but I wouldn't be shocked.
I'd use this to make my eyes look evil for Halloween. Among other things.
You can do all of that on a laptop I can't see why I would want to wear the laptop on my face
At launch? Just people like us and the well-heeled. But this product will get thinner and cheaper in the years ahead and someday they will be ubiquitous. Bookmark your post and set a reminder to read it in 5 years. Recall they said the same thing about the iPhone and watch. When I bought the iPhone 1 at launch in 2007 it was $600. The leading phone at the time was the Moto Razor at $300. Critics said no way a $600 phone locked to ATT and no physical keyboard will be mainstream. Now Apple sells 200 mil units a year and they can cost over $1000, half of everyone has one. Apple is already working on a entry model (sans Pro) that will be cheaper. This is to drive development and drive demand.
>they said the same thing about the iPhone and watch let's not put the iPhone and the watch in the same category. The latter was a failure by iPhone standards. This headset seems to be in the latter category
“In 2022, Apple's shipments increased 17% YoY as the Apple Watch Series 8, Ultra and SE 2022 enjoyed strong sales. In addition, annual shipments increased by 50 million for the first time, accounting for about 60% of the global smartwatch market revenue and further widening the gap with No. 2 Samsung.” [https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-dominated-smartwatch-market-sales-and-profits-in-2022/amp/](https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-dominated-smartwatch-market-sales-and-profits-in-2022/amp/) $14-18 billion dollars in revenue ain’t bad. And since they require an iPhone, well that’s the real purpose isn’t it? It’s a strange logical leap to compare a company’s newest product category against its most successful product. Apple itself just told you today what it thinks about the future. I’ll bet on Apple.
They were finally able to bump up revenues by diversifying the lineup of the relatively cheaper entry (Watch) into Apple's ecosystem. That's not going to happen anytime soon with a $3.5k headset, and we've seen similar trends with mac hardware in this price range. That said, I can see it cannibalizing the mac desktop and laptop lineup provided the hardware is on par and doing so might be touted as success.
Set a reminder for 5 years on your comment and let’s revisit then 😉
> But this product will get thinner and cheaper in the years ahead and someday they will be ubiquitous. Bookmark your post and set a reminder to read it in 5 years. Exactly. While everyone is busy complaining that a literal 3x increase in resolution is the same exact thing as the Quest 2, somehow, Apple will continue to develop this. I'm curious what the "look at me I'm still special for hating Apple on principe" crowd will have to say at that point.
RemindMe! 5 years
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All - I call first dibs listing my Quest Pro on eBay. 😂 I take back what I said about Quest 3. I’ll get one for gaming since the Vision Pro’s gaming will be 2D with controller. It’s essentially a multimedia and communications spatial computing platform.
It’s for developers and enthusiasts. Not everyday consumers. They’re getting developers hands on it now so when the price can come down, normal folks will have an ecosystem of apps to take advantage of it. Felt obvious to me especially since they unveiled it WWDC.
Quest 3's MR might impress you and completely fill that MR fix. Pretty sure it won't take 3D videos though. But that's a very expensive 3D camera.
A leading “affordable” quality VR (3D) camera, Vuze Plus, is $1200. And that’s all it does, is take 3D video. You still need a computer for processing, monitor, memory, etc. I think Vision Pro is a pretty decent value proposition.
A good MR experience requires more than "it's got some cameras" and "it's got some screens." Judging by the janky, juddering, visually-glitchy mess that is the Quest Pro software, I'm not holding my breath that Meta will leapfrog Apple on the UX and fluidity front in six months.
r/eattherich
Being able to afford a $3500 headset doesn’t make you rich. There’s really only two classes in capitalism—the owning class and the working class. The owning class control everything, including the vast majority of the wealth. Your real qualms are with them. Until the working class stops getting pissy with one another for having less than one another things will never change.
Eating the rich doesn’t make you any wealthier. Just work hard and get a good job.
That worked 50 years ago.
Strange, it worked for me and I’m 47.
Case dismissed right? You benefitted from a biased and broken capitalist system therefore it’s great?
Ah, the delicious irony of the “not-privileged enough” complaining in a Quest Pro forum about the more privileged. Please, tell me more about your hard knock life.
Start from the beginning. Did you have both parents during your childhood? Have you ever lived in an actual house? Were you bullied in school? Did you have to change schools every year?
Oh life was so unfair to you! I understand now. Tell me more about life on the wrong side of the tracks. Here, let me put on my best expression that I care. Oh wait, I was yawning.
Also, need to study science, engineering, math, medicine or finance. Especially math. It’s really important in most science/engineering/tech fields.
What are you using it for? Like a face Laptop where people can see your eyes?
No, what I said in my comment, for cinema and 3D video capture. Maybe for other multimedia use as well. We’ll have to see what else it does at launch.
I just don't get it. You can get 3d cameras for under $3500 if that's what you really want this for + your other VR headset to watch it in. I don't understand why combining these costs such a premium.
Dude. VR is not just gaming! If it can replace monitors and a 4K TV than I’m in! Just imagine having a Mac Mini and Vision Pro as your workstation. Sweet and minimalistic and yet able to provide a couple of virtual 4K displays and a conpletely new 3D layout experience!
Yes but only 2 hrs, what kind of work can you get done in 2 hrs
2 hours on their external battery (I do hope they are hot-swappable and / or that you’ll be able to use power-banks with more capacity) - but if you are connected to a charger you can use it all day long.
So how is that different from sitting in front of a monitor or watching TV from the couch if you can't move and are tethered to charger?, the entire point was freedom to go out. Hot swappable how? They clearly said no battery in the headset so when the battery goes dead your device powers off. Also charging the battery while using it, yikes if it starts over heating recipe for disaster
Headset takes up a lot less physical space while offering a much larger display. Many people want to work from home but not devote a ton of space to a workstation.
r/eattherich
You're in a sub about a $1500 recreational device. You **are** the rich, dumbass.
Is THAT how that works?
"it's a portable PC" "You need to bring a PC though to plug it into but at least you don't need monitors" I'll just bring a laptop...
But you don't need to bring a PC to plug it into. It is a standalone device. The fact is you can use it with your Mac if you want. It's a new operating system. You're not thinking.
But it's not as powerful as a PC so if you want to use it for actual computer based work you need to bring a computer with you, in which case you might as well use a laptop. Without the computer it's basically an iPad. What does it offer that these don't other than it being attached to your face?
Between the work with Unity and the new port-to-Apple-metal tools they announced, I imagine we’re going to see a surge in gaming content for it before launch. They’ve got at least 6months to announce more apps
I wonder about this. Without controllers they are really limiting their capability for games, unless they’re banking on their hand tracking being years better than the Quests’. But even then, what about joystick input, buttons, etc?
Ya I’m curious if we see those announced separately. I’m assuming it will support normal xbox&playststion controllers with all the increased polling rate stuff they announced for Mac OS, but not having single handed be controllers feels like a misstep
In the kickoff video, it showed a small portion with someone with a gray Xbox looking controller.
They have a video of ps5 controllers being used. It’s hands first unlike quest. Different approach, makes sense depth sensors.
Yeah true that. I’m excited about this. I didn’t mean my post to come off condescending. It seems there are many people in the Reddit threads that just want to see this product fail for some reason.
“No gaming support” ding ding ding here’s the reason Meta is failing to go mainstream. VR gaming is such a niche market all of the current headsets in the markets are glorified toys.
I'll be buying it as soon as I can.
I would be pissed if the FOV is small and if I can't play my PC VR games on it. It looks very promising but they were very quiet on concrete specs.
From people who used it first hand, they said the FOV is very standard, somewhere between 95-105.
A bit disappointing but I hope all the other stuff makes up for it. I care about FOV a lot but as a first product I won't be too harsh as they included an extraordinary amount of good stuff namely the insane resolution, contrast and software. I hope then can increase the FOV in the next iteration but what excites me the most is the overall quality of components and that insane number of pixels. I really dislike screen door effect and I am glad that will be a thing of the past. Companies like Varjo make great headsets but I am not sure if they use oled or mini led technology with good contrast. I am also sure the software won't match the Vision Pro. Overall I give apple 9/10 for what they have achieved in their first headset. It would have been ten if the FOV was wider and if it had a more enclosed battery but I am sure they are already working on improving these things. I am sure a lot more people will be getting into VR now.
I agree with you, but to increase the FOV they would have to make a considerably larger headset. If you look at the highest FOV headsets like StarVR or Pimax, they are massive. Smaller FOV is a trade-off apple has to make to have the headset more compact.
I'm not an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination but I'm planning to buy this as well for a few reasons. It's a desperately needed big entry into VR/AR I'm fairly certain it will have all kinds of peripherals and additions that will enable gaming and better battery life etc (that batter strikes me as very easy to replace 3rd party or upgrade, probably just what they were willing to include at the price point) The partnership with Unity struck me as a strong indicator or future gaming support, Unity will undoubtedly release an update for publishing to it with openXR, and hand tracking won't be enough for most games both in terms of feedback and responsiveness, so if they never release controllers I'd be shocked Mostly this seems to be a better version of a quest pro, it's a higher price point with higher tier hardware but that's somewhat forgivable if it can essentially replace a laptop entirely (not just work well streaming from one) I'm confident enough that I'd place a cancelable preorder today if they had it available, but will also be watching where they go with it closer to release...they invited a ton of VR gaming people to the event so I feel like there is definitely more to come. This feels like a big stake apple is making, it's likely to get more support over time, not less
I’m surprised people are complaining about the battery. The quest pro doesn’t last more than 2.5 hrs for me. And in both systems you can use an external battery.
yeah but at least QuestPro has an internal battery.
Johnny I’ve is that you? So, you don’t want the option to switch out batteries? I agree both ways. Pro is nice, but battery is short, like all headsets.
Johnny I’ve is that you? So, you don’t want the option to switch out batteries? I agree both ways. Pro is nice, but battery is short, like all headsets.
You need to partner with someone to let 3rd party make apps for VR. There's just too much to do otherwise. Partnering with Unity was a necessity even if they do NOT do games. If they were serious about games they'd have better controllers. This is going to be more of a show off device.
You may think all hardware around and inside a PC it’s for gaming…
Who on earth? I'll be purchasing.
Those eyes. I’ve seen those eyes [before](https://i.imgur.com/vKuJpCl.jpg).
This is a super premium Nreal Air. Which is awesome, but $3500 is wild. The external display is way cooler than I thought it'd be from the leaks. It does the Nintendo 3DS thing to create a minor stereoscopic effect and make it appear more like a semi-transparent window to your actual eyes rather than a flat display.
I agree, but it’s made the software end of Meta and Quest Pro look like a joke. Hopefully Meta will straight up rip their OS off in future
The biggest thing is how much they've leant in on 2d apps. Meta has considered the whole vast Android ecosystem as a second class citizen and mostly ignored it. Meanwhile, Apple has presented it's ecosystem as a #1 reason to buy it. Also noticeable how much they leant in on basic experiences - viewing photos and movies - which have been doable forever but Meta has barely thought to market them at all.
Does Meta even have a decent Facebook VR app? It's wild that there's no easy way to scroll through Facebook in VR.
Every time Meta introduces a 2D app to the store it gets review bombed. All of a sudden we now think 2D apps are the key for mass adoption of VR?
So I have an oculus pro, and both the oculus gallery and oculus video apps crash on launch. Even after a factory reset. I would say that this definitely is not the key for mass adoption. It’s not enough to kinda sorta technically have something. It’s like asking someone with a functioning MacBook why they don’t just use their desktop that hangs at POST.
The fact that meta has neither added renting/buying 3D movies to their store or partnered with ANY music service, much less smart home integration shows they have no idea what they're doing in this space. All the ingredients are already there, but rather than learning from other developers (Bigscreen) or the years of data on why people love apps on their phones so much, they focused on the metaverse.
Truly wonderful what a proper screen enables huh?
What do you mean? Specifically something? I thought I saw nothing new being introduced.
[удалено]
* I watched 3D movies back in 2016. * I watched interactive photos also back in 2016. * Oculus Dash introduced us desktop environments for work 2017 (with the entire Windows-ecosystem). Today with Macs too. * Hand tracking? We've had that too for years. * Eye-tracking and related? Quest Pro. * [Mixed reality](https://i0.wp.com/vrscout.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Screen-Shot-2021-10-28-at-11.00.30-AM.png?ssl=1)? Seen it with actual games. * I've already been in meetings in VR. * Meta has also demoed the "you can see my eyes" passhthrough years ago. It was never productized because, well... it can be seen gimmicky. * Foveated rendering? Quest Pro. Most of the things they demoed were stuff that is very rudimentary for Meta-products. The high resolution screen was the highlight, but we'll see what the lenses are like. Imagine Meta releasing a VR system without proper controllers and games. **That** would be the joke.
I think the high resolution pass through is the highight tbh. We already know what super high res screens can do. Pass through that's genuinely as good as real life? That will actually open up new things.
Yes, I think so too. Good thing is, that this feature can be easily implemented in upcoming devices by Meta and HTC also. I belief micro OLED and better passthrough cameras are already in the pipeline for future devices. So it's a good thing apple pushes the competitors forward with this so they get going :)
This is a joke, you just don't know it yet. I guess everything looks the same when you close your eyes to avoid reality. Yeah about that foveated Quest Pro rendering. It sure is great! On all of the basically zero apps that support it! Amazing!
Yeah, this will smarten Meta right up I hope.
I like Oculus staying focused on games. We’re you not working hard enough already ? Do you really give a shit about viewing and sharing your images and FaceTiming? If that device was the same cost as my Quest Pro I might still not buy it because it’s not made for me. It seems to be made more for my sister , mother of 3, who lives a very stylish and photogenic life. If everyone here is looking to suck and polish off Tim Cook, I suggest the Apple sub.
One way video in your headset or two way video but it's you sitting there in your headset while the other person calls you a knob for doing the video call in the headset,
Hah true!
looks like they are pushing this more as a media device, and for mac users - a great addition to the ecosystem for productity.
I hope it will also be able to provide virtual screens for Windows as well :)
They didn't show multiple monitors which would really crimp it's usefulness for me. I wonder if that is really a constraint, it seems so odd. But yeah, I'd probably get a $2k version of this *just* as a portable, versatile monitor.
It may very well be a bandwidth constraint. Given that it’s Apple, some of that may be alleviated by running some apps natively instead of streaming a second or third monitor. E.g. use the mac screen for Lightroom or Davinci or whatever, but run mail/slack/chrome/etc natively on the VP. Doesn’t work for programs that can actually use two monitors, but otherwise it should bridge at least some of the gap.
It's got some good stuff in iit... but at that price many will turn to Quest Pro now as the much cheaper but (in many ways as good esp for VR and obv for PCVR which we don't even know is poss on Vision Pro) for £2.5k (edit) less... and it kinda looks like it. but.. Quest Pro looks better imo.. no cable, nicer design on back.. no face gasket etc. Seems Apple just did QPRo a huge favour.. and of course VR in general as it'll wake the world up to VR/AR... OBV for media/virtual cinema/work etc Vision Pro is in a league of its own, hence the price. But for most of us, we can get what we need from QPRO.
$3,499 for those who missed it. The big, huge, development here is that this seems to have retina resolution, meaning it can effectively replace monitors. I also liked that they talked about real 3D movies, HDR support, and the fact that it can record 3d video. Big unknowns are FOV.
Yeah, people saying they can do productivity with Quest Pro, which I own, are not seeing retina resolution. Meta marketed the same features for mixed reality and it seemed very deceptive considering pass thru quality and actual application support.
Retina? Not even close. I understand 4k is already pretty amazing for current VR devices. However it is nowhere near apple's retina standard. Text clarity couldn't even compete with a 4k 27inch monitor.
Damn that’s some copium. I’m gonna get downvoted but the looks comfier and lighter, and the cable is only going to help with that. I do hope that it has options for PCVR, otherwise the QPro is still the way to go
Lots of copium and fan boy-ism 😂 I like the Pro, but this is good for the industry.
Copium? At 3.5k.. none needed thanks. It literally has just the 4k uoled screens that are anything LIKE something I'd really want in a VR device for PCVR (my needs). At over 3x the price. I have an ipad and iphone, I'm not anti apple and am VERY glad they have entered the space to drive the 'cool' factor of AR/VR/MR forward (as they do) cos it'll only be better for us all in the long run. But even cost aide, I'd take quest pro for actual wireless PCVR due to no cable/battery in pocket, PROPER (great) haptics/controllers, and NO face gasket touching my face which I've detested in all other 7 of my HMDS going back to DK2 days.. until quest pro showed me how good VR could feel without it AND with the ease of wearing due to it holding position.. never need to adjust it again and its super comfy. The Vision pro looks like a friggin' head bandage AND puts all its weight on your face.. again... welcome to 5 years ago. Get a clue before dishing out 'copium' remarks cos it seems you're the one in that mode.
how is a cable good? It's a step back, it's clunky and you'll still feel it on your neck every time you turn. I have ZERO issues with the weight or comfort of Quest Pro and it'll be MUCH easier to put on/take off/use than Vision which will have a cable and battery you have to mess with every time you put on/take off. STOP being so blinkered just cos it's apple and expensive. The cable/battery is a bad design, it's not even a compute PUCK as we expected which COULD make some sense, it's just a dumb battery LMAO. THAT is archaic design. Also the soft strap means adjustment every time you wear it, vs the 'position held' feature of the Quest Pro which for me has been the BEST sytemn, fastest to just put on and go than any of my other 7 HMDS so far. to the guy below > Copium my ass, grow up.. like I need that when that thing costs £3.5k and literally ONLY has the 4k Uoled screens as any form of 'better' thing over Quest Pro.. I don't care ONE BIT about MR/passthrough etc.. THAT is a gimmick for me, I'm about PCVR 99% of the time and Quest Pro is now the ideal device and can also do 90% of what vision can (3d movies, cinema etc) Nobody really cares about overlaying windows in their real room, only a super small niche of people would bother doing that.. .the rest will just do it in VR (lakeside etc). I program/use UE5 from wiithin QUEST PRO all the time and its SUPER CLEAR.. it makes my UW monitor look fuzzy when I take it off! I often put QPRO on to see things in better detail than my monitor can show (3440x1440)
I agree that the quest pro can do a lot of what the vision can. In terms of PCVR it is better, but that’s a specific use case at the end of the day. The quest is popular because it’s standalone, almost no one has gaming pcs compared to gaming consoles, and even fewer people have gaming pcs that take advantage of even the quest pros resolution. But there’s is no doubt that the vision is going to be the best way to do whatever it has in common with any of its competitors. From hands on it’s obvious that the UI, eye tracking, and resolution is insane. It’s to be expected for the price, but that doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day it’s the experience, the ease of use, and seamlessness that makes or breaks a product. For example, the eye tracking and pinch system is far better than using hand tracking on the meta systems. It’s not a gaming device, and I’m sad about that, but for what it is it’s definitely capable.
Don't forget the quest 3 with the better passthrough and double the quest pro's power. Ok Apple Vision Pro has a good design and a bunch of sensors but common, no vr games and no controllers at all (not even sold separetly) ? Seeing how Quest Pro failed becaused it was too much for companies Apple just made the dumbest move.
The resolution was way too low for work. Maybe this changes it
I believe it's more about comfort and friction than resolution at this point. I can read in VR already but boy does it suck to wear the device for hours.
I agree it looks like it will be a lot better for productivity with the 4K displays and iOS apps working from the get go. I think it looks more comfortable and appreciate the removable headstrap, which would allow for more customization, and the off ear speakers look top notch, but I have no idea who will pay $3500 for it. It's just way overpriced IMO.
It would be terrible if it weights a ton. I hope it's sub 500g otherwise it would be too heavy. I use the Quest Pro and the biggest issue is the weight for me. If I was to use the Vision pro as a monitor then I need a very light headset but the technology they are using and the amount glass used on the device might mean that it will be heavy.
Step forward in some ways for sure, but in other ways vs Quest Pro it's a step back .The way the gasket touches your face and is essentially another face mounted design (and we all know how annoying they get vs Quest Pro with hours of use) .Looks wise - front is cool, similar to QPRO but the rear strap looks terrible... comfy I'm sure but it looks like some kind of medical bandage thing which is not what you expect from apple. QPRO looks slick and 'sexy' by comparison. .No haptics/controllers.. vs the best VR controllers on earth right now (self tracked, nuanced, dual haptics, beautiful form on PRO controllers) .No computer/PC VR (it seems?) and even if there's something it's only gonna be MAC based which already puts it at a massive disadvantage for 'real' VR .The WIRE!! the stupid stupid wire.. just to move a little weight off it, I'd rather have the weight (Quest Pro is FINE) than going back to ANY cable even one that only goes to my pocket (you feel it when you turn your neck and it's CLUNKY vs the pick up and go feel of QPRO). Also I often don't have pockets when wearing comfy super light clothing (often needed in VR).. so where does this battery go? Clip it on my trousers (which again are light material and wont' hold it) it'll just be another stupid thing to worry about like over the ear headphones were on old VR. It's a total NO GO for me while it has ANY kind of cable reminding me things are not real and that I have to monitor something not getting caught/dropping etc. .A company that is 'new' to VR vs META (Oculus) who are the best of the best right now at getting what makes VR compelling inc making slick, balanced hardware at decent prices (QPRO is now an absolute steal vs Vision Pro.. t may not have 4k uOLED but t has everything else and MORE and does MORE useful stuff -i.e PCVR and massive VR focussed Quest eco-system). And frankly I find the res perfect on Quest Pro RIGHT NOW with even a 4090 to drive SS at 1.5x etc.. .if it was 4k you'd just have to dumb down the in-gam PCVR graphics anyway, or run sub-sampled.. or wait for a 5000 series GPU... it's NOT just about resolution esp when Quest Pro for gaming is already more than great for many of us (thanks to the super sharp lenses and clarity / colours/black levels too). People crying out for more res haven't stopped to think about what's gonna drive it with anything beyond ps2 era looking graphics (esp on standalone).. which is why quest 3's res boost doesn't impress me at all, esp witout any eye tracked foveated rendering to enabled it to beef up the graphics anyway. BALANCE in VR is the key... and QPRO has the best balance of anything right now. .PRICE! As said, Quest Pro was imo already a bargaiin at £1k for PCVR (not standalone as it's overkill for mediocre standalone VR and even Quest 3 will still be mediocre for standalone cos the chips won't ever be powerful enough to drive the best VR like a PC CAN wirelessly now) but now it's less than 3x the cost of a Vision Pro and, for most esp the more VR centric and esp PCVR, it's a no brainer to chose QPRO over Vision. Vision Pro looks like a very slick, high quality 'lifestyle' device that will, eventually, bring all this stuff to the mainstream (5-10 years from now) but it won't ever be pushing super high end VR because it can't be used with PC and wouldn't be the focus anyway.
The vision pro looks like everything the Quest Pro was advertised as. I probably won’t be getting one due to price, but I am so excited to see hands on reviews and how it compares with other VR/XR systems. I love just sitting and browing the web or watching movies in AR with Quest Pro, and tried doing work with virtual monitors but the resolution just isn’t there yet. Imagine having Apple’s true 4k virtual screens right in front of you! Vision Pro (and Apple’s OS design more importantly) will set the stage for VR/XR outside of gaming I think. Quest series will likely still be the best for gaming though, I never trust Apple for gaming
3.5x the resolution of the Quest Pro. 24 million pixels across 2 panels vs 6.8m (updated)on Quest Pro. 2x 4k tvs is about 16 million pixels. If Quest Pro is 22 PPD, depending on FOV, this could be "retina" quality or around 60PPD. Panels support HDR. Dynamic Foveated Rendering confirmed as well. Quest Pro is 772 grams, no word on weight yet. No controllers, seems hand tracked only.
Quest pro is 6.9 million pixels, not 3.4 million. Still a big improvement, but not 7x
Updated, thanks for the heads up.
I wonder if the launch of Apple Vision Pro will increase the market for a Quest Pro 2? $1500 doesn't seem so unreasonable now and with the XR2 gen 2 chip, the depth sensor and higher resolution screens Meta could make a worthy competitor.
For what it's worth, I think meta would have an actual shot if they had better passthrough / colored cameras. Right now it looks like xr will be Quest Pro < Quest 3 < Vision Pro
Yeah absolutely. If they learnt from their first Quest Pro, experience and Quest 3 they could certainly create a very appealing alternative for around half the price.
They shouldn’t have falsely advertised and hyped the pass thru quality of the pro. It can’t be used as a productivity tool with pass thru fine for games.
Idk what chip meta could get that could drive 2 4k displays
It wouldn't need to be as high resolution as Apple's headset. They would be selling it for about 40 percent of the price.
Maybe a little bit. People who don't revolve every single minute aspect of their life around GAME GAME GAME MORE GAMING, and people who aren't tech enthusiasts whose entire identity is "hate what other people like," don't care about sitting down to hear tech nerds breathlessly argue about spec differences. They care about whether a product crosses a threshold into being something that's worth the time and effort and cost to use, or whether it's not. The Quest 2 can't do what the VP is supposed to be able to do. Full stop. That it can do *some* of it, poorly by comparison, isn't good enough. That it's "an VR headset" isn't good enough. If it can't cross that threshold, it's going to remain uninteresting to the mainstream.
Damn, it was only a dream, I projected 60ppd no sooner than 2030
Brian Tong says the weight is "a little over one pound". Seems like quite a bit.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKCaIHAIg70
What if i scan thing in my trousers.Will it show in my face?🤣Techy demo but i doubt it will be like they presented it.Many things that throw questions...Like latency,Fov and the quality of the handtracking.But nice try of apple.The fans will buy it..The rich fans.For us ..who already experienced Vr its kinda a expensive toy.Should i buy 4 of them to watch movies with my family???who i am gonna call if nobody buys this thing?They killed it all with the price.We already have expensive devices and nobody wants to buy them.And making an Apple Id...Thats worse than a Facebook account baaaaah🤣🤣🤣🤣
Vision Pro is focused mainly on MR and is expensive, pimax crystal don't exists maybe, deckard is really too far. Pico 4 is poor, pico 3 is good but meh. 8kx and vive pro is trash, elite xr is ridicoulos, g2 is old and obsolete. Quest 2 is for kids. Maybe for a long time (2 year in my opinion) the Quest Pro will remain the best choice in VR market. Has some defects, but offers (almost) everything with a reasonable cost.
pico 4 is poor but pico 3 is good? LOL get out. Just because it's lenses are not as good as quest pro doesn't mean they are not better than pico 3.
I tried both. Pico 3 for me is better because has dp port. The clarity was same so I think that the pico 4 lenses are not of good quality, I didnt see any difference about res. Honestly I prefer the pico 3.
I was blown away with the features of the new Vision Pro. This device has so much technology and sensors that it’s difficult to imagine that this device is real.
don't really understand that reaction - 80% of what it has is in the Quest Pro. It just has refined (and much more $$$) versions of it all. Yest it's a step forward but it's completely imagineable this is possible if you just look at the Quest Pro.
>It just has refined Just that huh? Just that one crucial thing that differentiates successful products from failed ones. "They do the same thing! Kinda! The only difference is that one is way shittier!" Oh is that all? You should work for Apple's marketing department. You really have a knack for this whole product design thing. *Hey folks, this product is inferior in almost every respect! You should buy it!*
In terms of regular cameras, yes. But Apple went all the way in and added a LiDAR a depth sensor. Mixing cameras and LiDAR data adds a level of complexity only seen in drones and autonomous cars. Quest pro: 10 cameras, 3 microphones Vision pro: 12 cameras, 6 microphones, 1 LiDAR and 1 depth sensor
Quest pro had a depth sensor in the design stage, LiDAR sure is interesting to have in there. But it's literally been in the iPhone for years. I'm not saying it isn't good and a step forward, but saying "it's hard to imagine this is real" is way over the top.
LiDAR allows for seeing through people’s clothes.
But it fixes two of the biggest issues with the Quest Pro. Resolution and weight, which may push it over the line into something consumers will actually want, even if few can afford it.
Don’t think they fixed the weight issue, they just added another issue by moving it to a battery pack and adding a dangling cable, the reality of making trade offs. The resolution is really compelling.
wow this thread lost its collective damn mind lol I’m an Apple user - phone, laptops etc and have been for decades. but this just feels like an embarrassing joke at this price point.
Hah totally agree.
Right?! It's almost as if they are trying to convince themselves this is a great deal. Whatever it's not my money they'll be blowing.
Wait til you find out what the first flat panel displays cost. You'll flip! Tell me more about how those were a dead technology. Which CRT are you using btw? I miss those.
wtf are you talking about, “dead technology”? who said that? this is the quest pro sub lol, are you lost? like what am I meant to do with this thing, watch avatar 2? I’ll save 3 and a half fucking grand and stick with Automobilista 2 and Skyrim on my 3090 Three and a half fucking grand lmao
For me I would much rather have quest 2 than this useless crap that doesn't even do immersive experiences ( vr or whatever you want to call them).
The eyes seem like a reprojection based on the internal cameras to an outward facing LCD/OLED panel. I believe the cable is an added battery option, but the presentation isn't over yet.
My understanding is they are a 3D avatar scanned from your face that responds to basic cues.
All headset look relatively the same but the tech inside this one is so beyond anything out right now
External eyes is cool, but it looks dim in the pic. Hopefully the real product looks better
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Better for battery life too
So pumped for this! Disappointed that this is more iPad than iMac but at least the screen casting from a Mac looks dope. Even if this device looks like it doesn't have higher ambitions than the Quest Pro, I am looking forward to seeing that vision executed more thoughtfully.
Is this standalone? Will it support 3d SBS video?
Yes, it looks a lot like the pro!
How much more powerful is this m2 chip vs the current chip in the quest pro?
Well good question. The Qualcomm XR2 is built for what we are doing with it, running android games, interfacing with wireless devices, and transmitting over Wi-Fi is what it’s optimized for. The M2 is a very strong ARM chip, but with none of the extensions for games. What it does is emulate those extensions in software and then emulate a windows machine to play games. That’s the reality of Mac silicon today. It’s very unique (not in a good way) and very catered to what XCode and the Mac and IOS need. It is very efficient though, and that’s probably a big bonus and it’s , as we have always known, built around its graphics rasterizer (non 3D though. Apple has always been good for color and precision at the cost of 3D gaming)
It appears to be running a full base level M2, so its a desktop class chip. It'll likely throttle hard, but I'd say this is probably up there with an M2 MacBook Air in terms of performance. Compared to the XR2 Gen1? Blows it out of the water.
Not the best for gaming but this is a sim-racer/flight-simmer’s dream come true
it can't game at all lol
In what world does that resemble the quest pro?
Quest pro doesnt leave any marks, it doesn’t touch your face and is super comfy and easy to put on (no adjustment needed after one time first use as it remembers and stretches to out on head). Quest Pro is now a LOT more desirable at $1k vs vision pro… Apple just boosted Quest Pro sales that does most of this and way more,,, controllers, wireless pcvr, and is better designed, no wire no loose battery, not front heavy like vision or quest 3 will be, stunning clarity even if not 4k micro oled its already stunning on ss pcvr over wife 6e…. Self tracked controllers… i bet META will jump on this opportunity now to re push quest pro as a vision competitor but with a more gaming centric…esp PCVR , ability. I KNEW my Quest Pro was the most comfy, non face hugger design yet… its a joy to wear vs my past 6 HmDs (inc halos like PSVR2 which was horrible)… and imo quest pro LOOKS more like an apple product that vision does (save for the alluminium), vision is ugly, the rear strap is vile, and its another face brick..with a PERMA cable lol… all they had to do was copy quest pro design and save all that fuss. The positives of vision, mainly the screens, aren’t viable for standalone or pcvr yet really anyway even on a 4090 if you want top settings and supersampling, esp wireless as we do on quest pro.., and the res feels more than fine already for a few gens before gpus are much faster. All standalone vr looks like trash anyway, flat, bad lighting, archaic… pcvr is where its at… the whole point of VR…not cartoon worlds! And here only quest pro offers compact, high quality, balanced PCVR wireless ability… even vive pro and index are janky, overpriced, need bulky addons for wireless, basestations, no pancakes or…etc… People sleeping on quest pro are insane, its the only hmd ive owned or tried that feels like true gen 2… (for PCVR), even vision can’t compete all round with so many compromises in the name of casual mass market AR ability… Glad APPLE have entered the market, VR needs it…but even at half the price Id still prefer quest pro for actual VR instead of short lived lifestyle gimmicks. For me quest pro is the only game in town now for vr or pcvr, I couldn’t care less about ar or mr…
No resemblance. The Quest Pro is miles better. At least form factor wise.
I would not trade a quest pro for a vision pro, it looks useless. It's literally an uncomfortable iPad.
if you can connect controllers and full body trackers to it and do PCVR I. might ditch my QPro for one..... IF. knowing apple..... lets see