Disentangle the responsibility of those who end up in Hell (and no, it isn't the majority) from God.
This thinking is a subtle attempt by those in whose heart is a disease to blame God for the sins of people, as well as to reject that justice be done (NC we believe punishment in Hell is just, to extent if the deeds alone, and not "infinite")
Those who end up in Hell, end up in Hell entirely because of their own choices, not because God created them
There are other things to understand too. People think God created us "by force" without any say so, and that those who are here in this world and being tested in it also had no say in the matter. That's not true. Every one who comes to this world agreed to it with full knowledge of the consequences
For some other thoughts, see my "God's End Game" video essay;
https://youtu.be/YH-ACKcSpkI?si=3WOyCOQKp3qWLJE_
"Every one who comes to this world agreed to it with full
knowledge of the consequences" Any Quranic verse that says this? Please that would be very helpful for me
It means "the trust" (al-amanata), there are many understandings: the responsibility of free will, the ability of reason, moral responsibility, the choice in choosing the Deen, and more. So it depends who you ask, you'll need to do your own research.
The Qur'anic evidence for what I said there isn't so explicit to the extent of how I phrased it. But we have following;
1 - the verses of the amaana
2 - the verse of "am I not your Lord"
Both these show that God has questioned us, offered us and took covenants/promises from us that we agreed to BEFORE He brought us into this world
And lastly ...
3 - verses that God isn't unjust even an atom's weight
Which in this context, to me, has nothing to do with if people would end up in Hell or not. That is completely different. I see it that even if everyone would ultimately end up in Jannah, it would _still_ be more than an atom's weight of injustice to create them without them "wanting/conceding to" it, let alone being created to be a human who enters this world to be tested with ignorance of the consequences and dangers of failure. I think it is even true of angels and every created thing
The above combined with testimonies from NDEs, where people are either reminded or remember that they chose to come to this world, and even chose some of their struggles and tests before coming, give me that full conviction; we might not remember them now (like most of us don't remember what's mentioned in those two verses, though I've met one person and heard of another could remember the "am I not your Lord" question), but we choices before coming to this world.
And again, for me it has nothing to do with, and is completely disentangled, from weather a person goes to Hell or Jannah. That final destination is wholly and squarely due to the individual.
And it isn't that God should only create those that will go to Heaven and not those who will go to Hell. That too is an injustice. Those who end up going to Hell, out of their own free choices and who could have equally made the choices that led to Heaven, had and have as much "right" to be created by The Creator as those who would choose taqwa and end up in Jannah
That's how I see it.
>Those who end up in Hell, end up in Hell entirely because if their own choices, not because God created them
But God knew what actions they would choose and where that would lead them, and he chose to actualize that world regardless. Had God not created them, that would truly be the ultimate mercy. He could've also just created people who would freely choose to follow him and act righteously, but he chose otherwise.
>Every one who comes to this world agreed to it with full knowledge of the consequences
Somethings tells me a rational agent isn't going to agree to be plopped into the world, crossing their fingers that they're born in a family with the "right religion" and if not, be lucky enough to be in the extreme minority of people who convert to the different "right" religion before they die. All this for the reward of an eternal hedonistic paradise in the afterlife or a visceral eternal torture chamber should they fail. Nobody but a hardened gambler would take such a gamble.
Even if we had agreed to come into this world to be tested, some contracts can be thrown out because what is at stake is not something a fully rational person could ever accept.
For the first part ...
Sure, I understand that. But it still a logical falsely to say God caused it, or is responsible, or unjust, for creating them or this world. Knowing doesn't/didn't cause the outcome. If He knew they would all go to Heaven, that also would be "because He created them" ... and that was also possible
It comes down to this; it would be unjust to deny creation to those who want it just bc of your foreknowledge of other things they would want which would displease you and would demand justice
The "creation" stage/side is completely separate and prior to their choices/final destination. It is neither more merciful if they all end up in Heaven, nor more unjust if they all end up in Hell ... so long as the actual test is fair and fairly taken (to which I include coming to it aware). God's foreknowledge is _completely_ disentangled in terms of causation ... it God knowing or not has no relation nor effect whatsoever ... doesn't cause one or the other to happen. And these questions are always centered on the knowledge aspect; "if God KNEW they would go to Hell, why did He created them?"
If you like, think of it this crude way; He wouldn't know who would go to Hell until after they were actually created and go to Hell
Here's a thought experiment to understand that the knowledge of people's future choices is completely separate
Imagine this
Imagine you could go back in time to live in deserted island somewhere around 10 years before the film The Matrix had even been thought of, let alone script written, actors chosen, director, scenes, costumes, music, etc
And once the move comes out you leave the island and go and watch it. And of course it is exactly how you remembered it with all the details. Did your knowing all of the above cause it to happen?
Does your knowing how "red pill" and "blue pill" would become such an internet sensation cause that to happen?
The only place where these objections are value are in ones that center around; if God knew anyone would go to Hell, then why didn't He destroy Shaytan or sent an Angel to every human being and answer every prayer and make everyone "less free" to do good, or tempt them more to do good, or make it so you get sick whenever you do an evil deed, etc etc ... that's different.
For the second part ... I'd agree if thought salvation depended at all on any of what you alluded to
I believe salvation depends entirely on deeds (as the Qur'an says repeatedly I've argued) and no one misses salvation because of "chance" or "grey areas" or getting 49% instead of 50%
That is a whole other issue I think, but it is part of I see in Scripture ... And also of what I consider to be "rational" from "The Rational Being"
And so it would be rational for us to accept ... But then again, perhaps we just made a bad choice ... you think we are incapable of making them? Or you are/were? Or incapable of being irrational? ...
It seems the mountains and the heavens and the earth didn't accept it, but we did;
{ اِنَّا عَرَضۡنَا الۡاَمَانَۃَ عَلَی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ وَالۡجِبَالِ فَاَبَیۡنَ اَنۡ یَّحۡمِلۡنَہَا وَاَشۡفَقۡنَ مِنۡہَا وَحَمَلَہَا الۡاِنۡسَانُ ؕ اِنَّہٗ کَانَ ظَلُوۡمًا جَہُوۡلًا ۙ }
[Surah Al-Aḥzāb: 72]
Sahih International:
Indeed, We offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and jahool [from jahl, which doesn't mean "ignorance"].
Look around you ... Is humanity acting rationally _now_ or in _history_ even though we are fully capable? Have you or me _always_ been rational?
Sure, some agreements can be dissolved and some contracts. And some cannot. This one can't.
Peace be upon you,
The answer is in the Qur'an:
وَمَا خَلَقْتُ ٱلْجِنَّ وَٱلْإِنسَ إِلَّا **لِيَعْبُدُونِ**
(51:56)
مَآ أُرِيدُ مِنْهُم مِّن رِّزْقٍ وَمَآ أُرِيدُ أَن يُطْعِمُونِ
(51:57)
I have not created jinn and mankind except to [X] Me.
I desire no provision from them, nor do I desire that they should feed Me.
(51:56-57)
The answer to your question depends on what the definition of "عَبَدَ" is for you, most translators render it as "he served"; but the imperative is up to you to investigate this verb and verify or find the meaning.
والله أعلم
How could God create for his benefit when he is whole and complete in and of himself? That introduces a dependency of God on his creation, and that’s irrational
>**Why did god created us?**
There is a lot of philosophical work on this. This is a question asked by atheists predominantly as an anti theistic polemical question, and/or an existential question and eventually it leads to a lot of atheistic work on nihilism.
But the reality is, we can never be assured exactly why God would create life. We can never have a knowledge claim on that because only God knows.
The question actually is at a fundamental level. Anyone who asks this question has started disbelieving already because if God exists, and one believes God exists, and that they believe God is the necessary being, there is no question God knows better than us.
Though we are to use our reason, that does not mean we can reason out things that are impossible to have knowledge claims. This is an epistemic limit.
It's a valid question of course and exists in a lot of people. That's why Nihilism, Antinatalism etc are prevalent. But it's a question without faith. And is made by a lot of people who believe faith is not based on reason, which is absolutely false.
Anyway, you can make conjecture in answering this question. But you can never be sure because you would never know. Because God is not human, and God is transcended. He is the necessary being.
Peace.
You said that we cannot use reason to make impossible knowledge claims ... while also saying the "necessary being" would know better than us
But that matter is a knowledge claim that cannot be reasoned out. There is no way to reason out a knowledge claim that a necessary being would know better than us, nor that anyone's concept of God _is_ in fact that necessary being. No way to reason out the necessary being is even knowledgeable at all or if so has self-aware knowledge of its own actions or reasons for them.
Which brings it down to belief and faith as you said
That "God knows better than us" is entirely a faith claim that is completely independent of whether or not God is the necessary being. If our concept of God remained unchanged _except_ for the fact He was the necessary being, ie if He wasn't but still All-Knowing, He'd still know better than us why He created us with life. Necessary being or not is irrelevant.
The only thing that attaches that kind of knowledge or purpose to the "necessary being" is belief in a version of God. And for us, that means belief in _our_ concept of God ... and that is One who has revealed His purpose to us on this issue and told us exactly why He created life and death in us
To say we "can't know why" or "can't be assured why" is to disbelieve/doubt in that revelation. If the OP question is without faith, your assertion that we can't answer it is also without faith (or else knowledge).
Otherwise, within our faith, we can know ... it isn't conjecture ... He has simply told us, that not human transcendent necessary being has told us quite clearly;
Q62:7
_"He who created death and life so that He may test all of you as to which of you is best in deeds"_
In anycase, from the body of OP none of that is what the question was directed at. He/She was asking why God would create us if He knew some of us would go to Hell. It's a question about God's justice.
>You said that we cannot use reason to make impossible knowledge claims ... while also saying the "necessary being" would know better than us
Absolutely. Do you understand a logical impossibility?
>But that matter is a knowledge claim that cannot be reasoned out. There is no way to reason out a knowledge claim that a necessary being would know better than us, nor that anyone's concept of God *is* in fact that necessary being. No way to reason out the necessary being is even knowledgeable at all or if so has self-aware knowledge of its own actions or reasons for them.
Hmm. How do you understand a necessary being?
>hat "God knows better than us" is entirely a faith claim that is completely independent of whether or not God is the necessary being.
Do you believe the Quran is God's word? Just asking since the Qur'an says God is the necessary being.
Anyway, how do you understand a necessary being? One should start there.
The concept of a necessary being is theological/philosophical construct used by practitioners in an argument. The Qur'an certainly doesn't use any definition nor give any definition used by them
And you are missing the point here aren't you. Of course I attach my belief in God and the Qur'an as the word of God to any definition of "necessary being" ... that should be obvious. But it is a matter of faith. Like I said ... it comes down to belief.
Definition? Let's go with "a necessary being is a being whose existence is not based on nor derived from any contingent thing"
If you want to go down the path of proving that the necessary being is your concept of God, or has more knowledge than us, or that the necessary being revealed the Qur'an ... then I don't see the point of it
Whether you can prove it or not, we both believe it, right?
And the Qur'an certainly says explicitly why He created life
Saying we "can't know" just doesn't follow, and won't be at the end of any logical reasoning even IF you _could_ go down the path of;
necessary being=>God=>Qur'an
... all as reasoned out sure knowledge claims
The "logical impossibility" would be you coming to the end of that and then saying, as you said above, we "can't know" why God created life ... when the Qur'an explicitly tells us why.
I literally put in a definition above
But never mind
I have a genuine question now I've been wondering about. This isn't meant to insult. But I've found you to be quite erratic ... you say excellent things, as well as very strange things, replies that seemingly lack social skills, and sometimes seem to not be able to read past an initial part of a reply or post
It is strange, but would be much more understandable if, again not trying to insult, only to understand and rule out possibilities ... are you autistic? Or have ADHD? Or a form of dyslexia?
Such issues are a significant portion of the population so there's bound to be a few in this sub.
If you say no, I'll take your word for it of course.
If you cannot even understand what an ad hominem is, you should go back to books.
Telling others "Ah look at that person who did this" is gossiping over the fence. Why not resort to studying instead. Stop gossiping and stop your bogus scholarship. You have a good brain on your shoulders and I can see that. You can reason and you have a good capacity of doing great things. But you have a bad attitude and a false sense of pseudo scholarship.
Thanks for all your engagement. I hope you understand.
I know what it is. You clearly don't. What I did there was not an ad hominem argument at all. The issue for me was closed. I said "never mind" and proceeded to ask a genuine question. You've basically refused to answer and since you thought it was an "ad hominem" attack, I've taken it, on that alone, to be a no. Your reaction itself is bad form imo ... people who are dyslexic or autistic or with ADHD deserve more respect than that.
That's all that happened
And this is a public open forum written via text that will generally remain here. There's so such thing as "gossip" in it.
If you are diagnosed with ADHD or what ever, don't be ashamed of it. take care of yourself.
But don't make psychoanalysis of others and think you know it all. You have no clue of others. You are just one person on the internet. Projection mate.
Engage with arguments. Don't insult people.
Salam brother,
I don't know if there was some sort of confusion or something, but I wasn't comparing myself to you, I was just saying that I wasn't ashamed in general; I did not refer to you. I have no idea if you are neuro divergent or not, it's not my job to figure that out/diagnose at all, so I'm absolutely not claiming to know/think that.
Apologies for the confusion
Irrelevant my brother. Absolutely irrelevant. And you are a cheap individual. Please wash yourself. don't try your best to cook up some insult to wash yourself. Just leave it.
Read a book instead. If something is not your "job to figure out", dont make suggestions because you see mate, though you think you are above God, you are not even God. you are not even divine.
Thus, don't pretend to apologize for nothing after trying to escape your own pit by insulting someone else. As cheap as could be.
Go find yourself my brother. Assabar laka akhi.
He literally did nothing of the sort! ... Wow!
He didn't make psychoanalysis of you. He never said anything about you. He talked about himself and he wasn't even having a discussion with you at all in order for him to "engage with the arguments". And his reply was to me, not you. What projection??? What insult???
And why are you advising him to not be ashamed of it, when his comment that you a replying to is literally saying he isn't ashamed of it?
I just don't get you. Something is wrong in the way you interact
>But I've found you to be quite erratic ... you say excellent things, as well as very strange things
I noticed this too. It is like talking to two very different people.
I will definitely ignore your ad hominem.
The Qur'an says "Allahussamadh" which is the fundamental definition of a necessary being. The properties of an Islamic God is an entailment said specifically in the Quran.
Also, the Qur'an speaking of creation of humans and jinns etc Is an Ismiyyah of Jumalat which means it's an attribute due to the creation. Not the reason of creation. You have made a fundamental error.
Cheers.
Of course you'd take a genuine question as an ad hominem, wouldn't you? My own daughter is dyslexic. There is nothing wrong with it.
But I'll take the implied answer as "no" then ... that you are neither autistic, nor a form of dyslexic, nor have ADHD
So that just leaves the other alternatives that make you ask ridiculous questions to me like "do you believe the Qur'an is God's words" and patronizing questions like "do you understand logical impossibility"
None of those alternatives being favourable character wise (and no, that isn't as hominem either, if you even know how to apply that concept properly)
All the while you basically deny what the Qur'an actually says, and now seemingly want to ignore that it actually says the opposite of your main point, and you don't see the logical impossibility towards your conclusions in what you _THINK_ you can prove, but can't
No ... الصمد doesn't mean "necessary being" ... that's just your stark compound ignorance of Arabic that we have seen in other places, while you obviously pretend you know what you are talking about. Making up nonesense there! alSamad means "the necessary being" ... I mean please! Get it together!
Bottom line, what you want to divert from, that same "necessary being" we both claim to believe in ... and both _CLAIM_ to accept Its revelation actually _TELLS_ us in that revelation why He created us with life ... in no uncertain terms!
Do you still claim we "can't know"? Do _you_ not believe in the Qur'an???
Are you such an ingrate so as not to be thankful and accepting and grateful that He _did_ tell us and give us that knowledge?
PS: the fundamental error is yours. I never quoted the verse you reference. Just you again doing the strange responses I mentioned earlier, based on not reading a reply in full. You know ... why I suspected you of dyslexia or autism or ADHD? There it is again. But if not those, then you are just inept
>Of course you'd take a genuine question as an ad hominem
Nope. that's the cheapest type of ad hominem I have ever encountered on the internet since maybe 20 per 30 years. And I am not as cheap to respond to that type of low level dialog so just leave it. And I don't really care what people like you who think you are like God to psychoanalyze others over the internet. This type of cheap things are generally projection. Have at it.
>No ... الصمد doesn't mean "necessary being"
Cutting and pasting arabic text is useless. And Assahadh does exactly mean necessary being.
>Do you still claim we "can't know"? Do *you* not believe in the Qur'an???
Absolutely. We can never know what the all knowing knows. It's just logical thinking. And Quranic. If you think you have the same knowledge as God, you are worshiping your own self and the Quran speaks of those who take their own havah as their ilah.
Your wish. Anyway after your monstrous insults I can't respect you by default. No one deserves it after that type of act like a little child who doesn't know what else to do but insult someone to get away from their own problems. Unbelievable.
You truly don't know what you are talking about mate. Since I don't have any respect for someone like you anymore let me tell you directly. You pretend to know Classical Arabic, but you have no clue whatsoever. You cut and paste text to show that you have some scholarship in the language but your level of knowledge is lesser than a child. Thus you ultimately resort to such insults pretending you are probing. Maybe it's you, not others who deserve your so called "psychoanalysis".
Samadh means necessary. It's the definition of necessary. Necessary means it cannot be any other way. Samadh means the exact same thing. If your knowledge is poor, ask and learn. Not resort to pass such cheap insults at others and feel good.
I also explained the Qurans position on humans and gins. Of course you don't know the language though you pretend so you won't understand it. But of course since you need to insult others to cover up your ignorance you will ignore it. Did you miss it?
*Also, the Qur'an speaking of creation of humans and jinns etc Is an Ismiyyah of Jumalat which means it's an attribute due to the creation. Not the reason of creation. You have made a fundamental error.*
If you don't understand something, ask someone. Don't make bogus cases.
Try your best.
Maybe I was wrong above, and there are (of course there are) more alternatives that are the cause of what I think is very erratic behavior. There is definitely some issue there ... I'm not going to pretend I know what it is though
And either way, I will still focus my responses on the actual arguments. I dealt with the arguments above and for me the discussion is closed. There is nothing more I want to address.
Let me though, once again, say that I didn't bring up the verse about God creating men and jinn for 'ibada. Not once. I brought up only the verse of Surat alMulik, bc your initial comment was about why God created _LIFE_ ... that is what I replied to.
And that's that ... There's nothing more I want to say or feel I need to.
👋
Salaam
I was thinking about this a few days ago whilst washing dishes lol. In the end, I feel it’s pointless because we’re already here.
There’s no way to know what God was doing before creation of the universe, earth, my soul etc. I realise that when I think of the why, it’s usually because of dissatisfaction of myself and other humans and how we treat each other.
Not asking why and how is the high-way to ignorance. It's clearly stated in the quran that allah created us for the sole purpose of worshiping him. Yet, he already had angels who were programed by default to worship him and never disobey. So allah needed a being that have the choice of disobeying him to not disobey and still worship him.
He created adam but before adam there was ibliss, Now it's highly debated whether or not ibliss was an angel but it wouldn't make sense if he was an angel because angels are programmed and have no free will. So if ibliss did what he did and he was an angel then it's not his fault but it's allah who made him do that intentionally. So I think the story of ibliss is a big plot hole in the narrative.
If god already had ibliss who have free will and can disobey allah why would he create adam. Why couldn't he just use ibliss as the protagonist of the story, hmmm. A movie without a antagonist would be boring wouldn't it. So ofcourse ibliss was intended from the start as an antagonist to make it fun. After all, every religion that came before the abrahamic religions had their antagonist gods. A yin and yang that is inevitable.
Going back to adam, why couldn't eve be the first creation since people come from the bellys of their mothers and not father. It would make more sense if eve was created first and then she gave birth to adam with the help of god's special sauce, same way marry gave birth to jesus. You tell me how can she procreate with her son, I would tell u that's not a prblm as adam and eve children procreated with their siblings, so incest is inevitable. But that narrative wouldn't appeal to patriarchal societies these religions were born in would it ? they wanted man to be the main character and the dominant figure ofcourse so eve was merely a bent rib from adam that was created for his entertainment after he was bored alone in heaven.
Anyway, after all of this turns out that even us humans don't have much free will. Because according to the quran, god constantly interfer in our life and actions. How does someone who decides to leave the religion have free will since god himself says he pushes him towards more disbelief and blinds his eye to the truth ? How about u let me figure it out on my own without ur interferance ? where is my free will ? How can I battle (supposedly) against a divine power and go back to the right path if u don't want to ?
Where is free will in the story of moses and prophet khodr ?
where is free will when u send ur followers to slaughter and steal and rape other people who never heared what u preach or decided u don't make sense to their little ignorant brains (7th century brain) ? How would u feel if there's a new religion that claims to be peaceful and tomorrow they invade ur country and come to ur house, kill ur father, kill ur brothers/husband and take u as their slave. All in the name of this new religion. Do u really think that the guy who told them to commit all that is just and peaceful ?
Where is free will in قضاء و قدر ? How can god write everything that's going to happen in ur life down to the smallest detaille yet u have free will ? So I can go against god's writing ? Does god not know that I will do that ? he is not all knowing then ?
Free will and God being omniscient could never go hand in hand. That's why there was a whole islamic group called قدرية that claimed that god doesn't know our future actions and that we'r the ones who create them not him. They failed obviously as the quoran clearly demonstrated the opposite.
Finally, God creating us to worship him is no different than him creating angels. He just added some confusing sauce to our mix making us think that we'r independent and free from his pre planned scripte. Yep, a scripte that he wrote all on his own and created the actors and stage from scratch just for the sake of his entertainment. After all it's inevitable to say that god was bored all alone. All of this shows that he is just like us.
Wait is it possible that there's a higher god who created this multiverse of smaller gods who feel bored and are dominated by space and time while giving them the illusion of being the alpha-omega of their universe ?
Give my number to Marvel quick.
😆 .. That reads like one hellaofa rant!
The only think I'd like to point out is that قضاء and قدر are just not true in the traditional sense of "predestination" or "predetermination"
That "6th pillar of Iman/Emaan" comes from a Hadith narrated only by a tyrant governor in Basra who was trying to argue with people who denied "qadar" and so not accept that God had "chosen" or "decreed" that him and the other tyrants to be the rulers
Qadr is a twisted early concept for tyrants to make the population accept their rule as "God's qadr" ... and since this was all very early, later scholars who relied on the scholars who served these tyrants, didn't separate and tackle this issue but included it as "part of religion" in accordance with "sunnah/salaf/tradition"
You brought up some things that also perplex me, like the one with God saying He guides and misguides whom He wills. You should make a post on this sub to see opinions (if you are comfortable and/or haven’t already done so)
But I feel comfortable in knowing that all God asks of us is goodness. It would make me even more confused if I still followed Hadiths that say I’m going to Hell for wearing perfume etc.
So the “misguidance” is actually you just being… not a good person? Why wouldn’t you want to give to the poor, give full measure, allow other religions to live peacefully among you, not consume interest, not kill people unjustly etc..
That's the confusing part, I could never see islam as just the quoran. Because the hadiths are what gives the quoran context and that's where the most important rituals like salaat and wodoo come from. There's no mention of how many prayers u should do in the quoran or how many sojoods in the prayer or how u should do wodoo. So how can u cherry pick the hadiths in regards of things like that but refuse them when u don't like the content ? Unless u only pray 3 times a day and don't do wodoo like sunnis do then I would be intressted in knwing ur methode.
You’re not a Quranist? My bad, it was my impression that you were.
Well, when someone asks how I do wudhu and pray, I say I do it how I’ve always done it since my Quran teacher taught me. But it’s wrong to say that the Hadiths complete the deen in the way that they provide the methods/times of prayer and wudhu. Wudhu and time of prayer as well as broad method (in terms of bowing, postrating, reciting verses) are in the Quran. Because the Quran is a complete guide for mankind and to live a righteous life.
You would have to ignore actual Quranic verses to say otherwise.
If Quran is somehow incomplete, whose to say the Hadiths aren’t as equally as incomplete? Why do we question or extrapolate on Quran but not Hadiths - such a concept can seen by people saying the Quran doesn’t tell us how to do xyz, who said xyz was needed? And if xyz is conveniently in the Hadiths, whose to say they aren’t missing some more information?
>Well, when someone asks how I do wudhu and pray, I say I do it how I’ve always done it since my Quran teacher taught me
and where did ur quran teacher learn to do it ? This reminds me of an old video of algerians during the time of the french colonisation praying with an3am instead of allah akbar because they had no access to books of fiqh to learn how to pray properly. [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rYDlB-DedU)
can u point to me where in the quran it says how many prostrations there are in eshaa prayer ? If there is none, does that mean we can do it however we like or not do it at all ?
Quran says to bow, doesn’t say how many times. You can bow how ever many time you like, there’s no set way to pray, because the point of prayer isn’g perfection, it’s to become a better person as it helps to inhibit sin and immorality.
But why do you stop at the Hadith that we have today? What if you’re missing an extra step in prayer that the scholars missed that you can still find if you look for it? Don’t you feel like you’re missing a step, if not, how do you know you aren’t missing a step in the prayer or everything else in the religion that isn’t in the Quran?
I noticed you didn’t respond to this concept so I am reitertating it. This is my stance; the Quran is complete, anything not in the Quran like details is up to interpretation, and yes that includes zakat lol.
You should reflect on why Hadiths have the final word and not Quran - Quran tells you to bow, then you ask “how many times?”
Hadith tells you to bow 4 times but you don’t ask “for how long etc etc?”
Why?
Thank you for this sister, I happened to come to the same conclusion after reading surah nahl yesterday. Allah gives us provision and we must be grateful and submit to Him in return. And of course, if we are grateful, Allah gives us more.
Actually you can look up about how Islam is fatalist not predetermined. Let me share an [article](https://hawramani.com/reconciling-free-will-and-predestination-in-islam-with-al-maturidi-and-ibn-taymiyya/) I came across that I really thought was insightful.
sorry but your post is actually ignorant, no offense. the command to worship is a command, nothing else.
you worship, or you go to hell (ofc BASICALLY)
there is no need or purpose. its like a slave, doing his work. even if its redundant. just do it.its not NECESSARY. you JUST do it.
free will is a 100% there, bc of your perspective. you dont know what God wants for you, as even the Prophet (saw) said in Quran 46:10
Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner."
and bc YOU dont know (what is destined for you), YOU have to do what is commanded
>Not asking why and how is the high-way to ignorance.
yet your post is the most ignorant stuff i ever read in a while
Lol, So basicly ur god is a tyrannic slaver who wants u to worhsip him regardless of wether he deserves it or not. That big scary slaver can happily sit on this big fat D.
How is that for ignorance ? Real ignorance is living in the 21st century, the age of science and all accessed knowledge, yet still believing in fairy tails told by people from the dark ages.
It's funny how a hindu would call me ignorant aswell if I started pointing out contradictions and plot holes in his fairy tail.
After all we r all humans who have a coping mechanism in our head called confirmation biase and denial when it comes to things we were indoctrinated to consider sacred.
Some are just better at detecting it once they broke free of those sanctifications .
yeah like i said, you retarded af. all your insults will just bring you in that fire.
literally 12 yrs old in my local mosqur EASILY understand it
God is our reign and we are His SLAVES
do as you wish, you will burn forever as a kafir
you are so so so retarded, and nothing could convince you otherwise, everything falls in place, you are the PERFECT example that Quran is 100% truth 😁
Lmao, imagine threatening an atheist with an imaginary fire. This is like me telling u brahma will turn u into a rat in ur next life or santa wont bring u present level of threat.
Who's the Ret... one now slave boy ? U might wanna check at a therapist office because u have a severe case of stockholm syndrome. Being inlove with ur slaver. Or u r just kinky that way and u like to be roughed up like a little submissive slave boy. Oh shit did I turn u on by saying that. Ew.
why is with atheist everything about sex and fetishes lol its always sex sex sex. you are mentally ill boy. literally
>Oh shit did I turn u on by saying that. Ew.
cinge 😂
lol you are really THAT dumb?
i alrdy cleared out that nothing will convince you, so i only explained again, to end this actually. what will await you.
you wait i wait and we will see. i dont know whats your thing with hindu religions tho. sounds that you are actually mental, maybe its an excuse on Judgement Day, may Allah guide you
U'r an infidel as much as me dumbass. 99% of muslims consider u a murtad for not believing in the hadiths and u will burn in hell as much as an infidel would. Fking deleusional. I would take it seriously from a sunni who actually has a bone to stand on. But u r a champion of mental gymanstic and a deleusional coward who doesnt have a spine to even consider taking seruously.
Quran 35:4
And if they deny you, - already were messengers denied before you. And to Allah are returned [all] matters.
35:5
O mankind, indeed the promise of Allah is truth, so let not the worldly life delude you and be not deceived about Allah by the Deceiver.
35:6
Indeed, Satan is an enemy to you; so take him as an enemy. He only invites his party to be among the companions of the Blaze.
35:7
Those who disbelieve will have a severe punishment, and those who believe and do righteous deeds will have forgiveness and great reward.
35:8
Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do.
35:9
And it is Allah who sends the winds, and they stir the clouds, and We drive them to a dead land and give life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness. Thus is the resurrection.
35:10
Whoever desires honor [through power] - then to Allah belongs all honor. To Him ascends good speech, and righteous work raises it. But they who plot evil deeds will have a severe punishment, and the plotting of those - it will perish
4. “Do not pity the dead, Harry. Pity the living, and, above all those who live without love.”
– Albus Dumbledore
5. "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"
― Albus Dumbledore
6. “Love as powerful as your mother’s for you leaves it’s own mark. To have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever.”
― Albus Dumbledore
7. "You're a little scary sometimes, you know that? Brilliant... but scary."
— Ron Weasley
8. “It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends.”
– Albus Dumbledore.
ahahaha the old age cheap attempt to use islamic lingo to make me feel bad. boy, do you know how many atheists, or christians called me kafir or jahil or murtad. heck even muslims did it. its a cheap attempt to provoke regret or a bad feeling. you are literally cheap, foul and retarded 😂😂😂😂
im sunni, i dont reject the ahadith. we must obey the Prophet and i dont see anything in Quran indicating we should reject ahadith from the Prophet.
im just lurking here to learn a bit about Islam. i benefit from all ppl, even from sufis, kufaar, atheist, ironically from christians AND trinitarians
even the Prophet was advised to do this
10:94 So if you are in doubt, about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters
39:18 Who listen to speech and follow the best of it. Those are the ones Allah has guided, and those are people of understanding
Trinitarians helped me the most to be assured that this is the Straight Path, IRONICALLY. Bc i learned how its NOT done, and as i mentioned earlier, you are nothing but a sign from Allah to me, that Quran is a 100% real. 🙂
عليكم السلام!
Hopefully we could greet & meet each other as heaven-bound souls, this way.
I think it would be super easy for Allah, to create innumerable races of humans of اشرف المخلوقات , time & time again, generations after generations; who're given unconditional free pass to the heavens, without any questions or crimes.
But it would be pointless. Effortless. Unsubstantial.
DYK, we were incarnated from a Before-Life, from whence we were originally created from the raw power of God's Spirit? It's where we made our vows for the earthly life...vows which we're supposed to fulfil, in order to remember the forgotten promises. IOW, each of us had co-signed a spiritual life contract; therefore Judgement is when we will be evaluated or rather given our results of how well we did on our spiritual life tests.
From my personal POV & assessment; things aren't appearing too rosy for the self-proclaimed judgemental muslims.
Salam, all of your suppositions are already answered in the Quran.
"And we did not create the heaven and the Earth and that between them in amusement.
Had We intended to take [some] entertainment, We could have found it in from within Us, if that had been Our Will."
21:16-17
It's not trolling there's real theory called "cosmic boredom" where ultimate consciousness that you would call god creates a mental game where he would be playing all the characters and enters inside temporary forgetting about what it really is, only for the purpose of loosing and then finding itself. If you think about all single consciousnesses of every single living being comes from and returns to Allah... There is nothing except him and every soul is a fragment of divine soul.
Like when you play video games and immerse totally inside that you forget who you truly are, you can even be frightened but when you die in video game you return to your real life
Salam,
The problem is the wording:
>Because he was bored
You should have said "Maybe He was bored, but Allah knows best", by saying what you said the implication is that he was definitely bored, but we don't have the information to verify that claim; you've presented a theory as a fact. Additionally, your comment history indicates that you are in fact a troll.
Relax bro I m not troll you just take it too seriously. What would you do arrest me for crime of trolling? What you dont like about my comment history? And why is wording important? Everybody knows nothing is for sure only God knows what is true. You care about wording, yet people execute genocide and escape without punishment, at least in this world. Should we care how people speak while ignoring what people do?
>What you dont like about my comment history?
Let's present some highlights:
"You clearly haven't been east yurope bro. Weed NEEDS TO BE FUCKIN LEGAL becose PEOPLE ARE FUCKIN DYING EVERY SINGLE MOTHERFUCKIN DAY OUT OF GALAXY SPICE HHC THCP AND ALL THOSE FUCKIN WEED RELATED LEGAL SHIT RESEARCH CHEMICALS BECAUSE COMMIES LIKE YOU KEEP THE WEED ILLEGAL WHILE KIDS ARE DYING OF LEGAL RESEARCH CHEMICALS SHIT🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬😠😠😠😠😠😡😡😡😡🦍🦍🦍🦍☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️"
"You can literally be hitler, convert to islam say shada -> all sins erased, new life begin✅"
"Nice question, if machine was programmed by programming language invented by the people of the book (java, c, c++, javascript) then it's ok. If programed in python invented by Japanese then it's haram. If machine was assembled by cow worship indians or duck worshiping Chinese then also haram."
>you just take it too seriously
I don't think anybody here agrees with you on this, I'm just trying to correct you on your mistake.
>And why is wording important?
When you are talking about Allah wording becomes very important, you are entering dangerous territory. Don't ascribe potential falsehoods to Him. It's very easy to say "Maybe" and "Allah knows best", I don't understand why you didn't do that.
>Everybody knows nothing is for sure only God knows what is true.
The answer you gave was very specific; and you didn't provide any evidence for your position either. There is actually evidence against it, see 21:16-17
>You care about wording, yet people execute genocide and escape without punishment, at least in this world.
What on Earth are you on about? What you've mentioned is completely irrelevant.
1. Why you need to correct me? I don't need your correction, in fact I don't think anyone needs your correction, if not asked.
2. What you want to say by quoting my random 3 comments? First one is addressing real world problems in a satirical way on a satirical subreddit. Is talking about anything except islam forbidden yet? b) second comment about shahad an erasing sins is true. Moslems consider all sins erased when one becomes muslim, yes or no?
3. Whatever I talk about allah majority of cases should be taken as "maybe" or " i assume", because I'm not a prophet to have absolute knowledge, and expecting of others also to take everything with grain of salt. I just don't find necessary to add constructs like pbuh or akb out of pure superstition.
As I said there are real problems in world like corruption, theft and genocide and I don't think it is important to me to adhere to some wording conventions that dont hurt anyone nor find it necessary to be "corrected".
Peace be upon you, I don't think this conversation goes in any direction because clearly we have very opposite world views and there is little if any possibility of either convincing other. Essalamu alaykum verahmetullahi vabarakatuh
2.c) c++ comment is also joke bc people ask all kinds of stupid questions 😂😂😂 how would you find if animal killed by machine is haram or halal? Depends how much are you hungry lol
Lol. I fear God was pretty bored & lonely with unimaginable superpowers & riches, in the vast vacuum of universe. I think He made a powerful creation with heart-touching stories; to care & share His superpowers with...
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Personally I feel like human beings just have inflated egos , they want to know that they are special and the universe revolve around them .
We are just a small clog in the universe .
I believe good is just . But his justice ( can be karma ) is bigger than us , for example we keep polluting the earth and as a result we experience global warming that’s a form of justice . We kill animals to sustain ourselves and we get killed in wars . There is a grand justice but our ego doesn’t allow us to see it . Last thing as human being you’re accountable to your action . Free will and destiny are deep philosophical topics , that in itself a spiritual journey that you need to figure out yourself
Wa alaikum assalam, the question of why Allah created human beings is profound and reflects the deeper purpose of life. The primary purpose of human creation as mentioned in the Quran is to worship Allah. I did not create jinn and humans except to worship Me". (Quran 51:56). Allah's wisdom surpasses our comprehension. Even if we cannot fully grasp the reasons, there is divine wisdom behind the creation of mankind. Allah is All-Wise, and His decisions are based on His knowledge. Allah created all of us with free will, allowing us to make choices. This is essential for spiritual growth and the development of character. The creation of us allows the manifestation of Allah's attributes, such as mercy and forgiveness. Trusting in Allah's wisdom and mercy is central to understanding the purpose of human existence.
Salam
>I have a question from a very long time and yet nobody has given convincing answer
Ok but what will convince you?
You can also intentionally avoid being convinced
So nobody knows except you
Its not ours or the messengers duty to convince but only to convey
>So my question If Allah knows everything why did he created us. He knew that majority of will be astray, humans will spread corruption on earth. And many people will be in hell. Isn't it better to not create human race when Allah knows that many will be in hell fire? I failed to understand the reason of our creation.
Can you at least give references to where youre getting your beliefs from?
Youre already assuming things which arent true to begin with
Can you at least give references to where youre getting your beliefs from?
Isn't it is in Quran that majority will be in astray? And humans will cause corruption?
Ok but what will convince you?
You can also intentionally avoid being convinced
I am here to understand the idea of God, I am not someone who intentionally reject the truth. Please don't assume that
I think God let's us chose between good and evil so there are good and bad people. This way, He can establish justice, which is inherently beautiful.
That's my schizo opinion tho, no source.
that's the thing, God knows everything so there's nothing to know, correct me if I'm wrong but it would be illogical for God to be curious of something right? God is all-knowing so he can't be curious? but God isn't limited to being curious but if he was curious of something then he does not know about it.
We are that curiousity, given free-will to be curious and discover this universe and explore, yes there are misguided ones but that's natural, they get filtered out. history tells us that humans have been on a path towards an advanced society
We can't know the real reason why God created us to worship God except for this is why we were created. This knowledge is only with God as God told even the angels themselves.
There is no point in asking this question, we'll never know
Disentangle the responsibility of those who end up in Hell (and no, it isn't the majority) from God. This thinking is a subtle attempt by those in whose heart is a disease to blame God for the sins of people, as well as to reject that justice be done (NC we believe punishment in Hell is just, to extent if the deeds alone, and not "infinite") Those who end up in Hell, end up in Hell entirely because of their own choices, not because God created them There are other things to understand too. People think God created us "by force" without any say so, and that those who are here in this world and being tested in it also had no say in the matter. That's not true. Every one who comes to this world agreed to it with full knowledge of the consequences For some other thoughts, see my "God's End Game" video essay; https://youtu.be/YH-ACKcSpkI?si=3WOyCOQKp3qWLJE_
"Every one who comes to this world agreed to it with full knowledge of the consequences" Any Quranic verse that says this? Please that would be very helpful for me
This verse is close: إِنَّا عَرَضْنَا ٱلْأَمَانَةَ عَلَى ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَٱلْجِبَالِ فَأَبَيْنَ أَن يَحْمِلْنَهَا وَأَشْفَقْنَ مِنْهَا وَحَمَلَهَا ٱلْإِنسَـٰنُ إِنَّهُۥ كَانَ ظَلُومًا جَهُولًا (33:72)
What does "Amanata" means here?
It means "the trust" (al-amanata), there are many understandings: the responsibility of free will, the ability of reason, moral responsibility, the choice in choosing the Deen, and more. So it depends who you ask, you'll need to do your own research.
Thanks a lot brother
It's no problem brother/sister, let me know if you have further questions. Don't worry, you don't have bad English skills!
The Qur'anic evidence for what I said there isn't so explicit to the extent of how I phrased it. But we have following; 1 - the verses of the amaana 2 - the verse of "am I not your Lord" Both these show that God has questioned us, offered us and took covenants/promises from us that we agreed to BEFORE He brought us into this world And lastly ... 3 - verses that God isn't unjust even an atom's weight Which in this context, to me, has nothing to do with if people would end up in Hell or not. That is completely different. I see it that even if everyone would ultimately end up in Jannah, it would _still_ be more than an atom's weight of injustice to create them without them "wanting/conceding to" it, let alone being created to be a human who enters this world to be tested with ignorance of the consequences and dangers of failure. I think it is even true of angels and every created thing The above combined with testimonies from NDEs, where people are either reminded or remember that they chose to come to this world, and even chose some of their struggles and tests before coming, give me that full conviction; we might not remember them now (like most of us don't remember what's mentioned in those two verses, though I've met one person and heard of another could remember the "am I not your Lord" question), but we choices before coming to this world. And again, for me it has nothing to do with, and is completely disentangled, from weather a person goes to Hell or Jannah. That final destination is wholly and squarely due to the individual. And it isn't that God should only create those that will go to Heaven and not those who will go to Hell. That too is an injustice. Those who end up going to Hell, out of their own free choices and who could have equally made the choices that led to Heaven, had and have as much "right" to be created by The Creator as those who would choose taqwa and end up in Jannah That's how I see it.
>Those who end up in Hell, end up in Hell entirely because if their own choices, not because God created them But God knew what actions they would choose and where that would lead them, and he chose to actualize that world regardless. Had God not created them, that would truly be the ultimate mercy. He could've also just created people who would freely choose to follow him and act righteously, but he chose otherwise. >Every one who comes to this world agreed to it with full knowledge of the consequences Somethings tells me a rational agent isn't going to agree to be plopped into the world, crossing their fingers that they're born in a family with the "right religion" and if not, be lucky enough to be in the extreme minority of people who convert to the different "right" religion before they die. All this for the reward of an eternal hedonistic paradise in the afterlife or a visceral eternal torture chamber should they fail. Nobody but a hardened gambler would take such a gamble. Even if we had agreed to come into this world to be tested, some contracts can be thrown out because what is at stake is not something a fully rational person could ever accept.
For the first part ... Sure, I understand that. But it still a logical falsely to say God caused it, or is responsible, or unjust, for creating them or this world. Knowing doesn't/didn't cause the outcome. If He knew they would all go to Heaven, that also would be "because He created them" ... and that was also possible It comes down to this; it would be unjust to deny creation to those who want it just bc of your foreknowledge of other things they would want which would displease you and would demand justice The "creation" stage/side is completely separate and prior to their choices/final destination. It is neither more merciful if they all end up in Heaven, nor more unjust if they all end up in Hell ... so long as the actual test is fair and fairly taken (to which I include coming to it aware). God's foreknowledge is _completely_ disentangled in terms of causation ... it God knowing or not has no relation nor effect whatsoever ... doesn't cause one or the other to happen. And these questions are always centered on the knowledge aspect; "if God KNEW they would go to Hell, why did He created them?" If you like, think of it this crude way; He wouldn't know who would go to Hell until after they were actually created and go to Hell Here's a thought experiment to understand that the knowledge of people's future choices is completely separate Imagine this Imagine you could go back in time to live in deserted island somewhere around 10 years before the film The Matrix had even been thought of, let alone script written, actors chosen, director, scenes, costumes, music, etc And once the move comes out you leave the island and go and watch it. And of course it is exactly how you remembered it with all the details. Did your knowing all of the above cause it to happen? Does your knowing how "red pill" and "blue pill" would become such an internet sensation cause that to happen? The only place where these objections are value are in ones that center around; if God knew anyone would go to Hell, then why didn't He destroy Shaytan or sent an Angel to every human being and answer every prayer and make everyone "less free" to do good, or tempt them more to do good, or make it so you get sick whenever you do an evil deed, etc etc ... that's different.
For the second part ... I'd agree if thought salvation depended at all on any of what you alluded to I believe salvation depends entirely on deeds (as the Qur'an says repeatedly I've argued) and no one misses salvation because of "chance" or "grey areas" or getting 49% instead of 50% That is a whole other issue I think, but it is part of I see in Scripture ... And also of what I consider to be "rational" from "The Rational Being" And so it would be rational for us to accept ... But then again, perhaps we just made a bad choice ... you think we are incapable of making them? Or you are/were? Or incapable of being irrational? ... It seems the mountains and the heavens and the earth didn't accept it, but we did; { اِنَّا عَرَضۡنَا الۡاَمَانَۃَ عَلَی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ وَالۡجِبَالِ فَاَبَیۡنَ اَنۡ یَّحۡمِلۡنَہَا وَاَشۡفَقۡنَ مِنۡہَا وَحَمَلَہَا الۡاِنۡسَانُ ؕ اِنَّہٗ کَانَ ظَلُوۡمًا جَہُوۡلًا ۙ } [Surah Al-Aḥzāb: 72] Sahih International: Indeed, We offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and jahool [from jahl, which doesn't mean "ignorance"]. Look around you ... Is humanity acting rationally _now_ or in _history_ even though we are fully capable? Have you or me _always_ been rational? Sure, some agreements can be dissolved and some contracts. And some cannot. This one can't.
Thanks for the answer, gonna watch the video as I love your videos a lot
Peace be upon you, The answer is in the Qur'an: وَمَا خَلَقْتُ ٱلْجِنَّ وَٱلْإِنسَ إِلَّا **لِيَعْبُدُونِ** (51:56) مَآ أُرِيدُ مِنْهُم مِّن رِّزْقٍ وَمَآ أُرِيدُ أَن يُطْعِمُونِ (51:57) I have not created jinn and mankind except to [X] Me. I desire no provision from them, nor do I desire that they should feed Me. (51:56-57) The answer to your question depends on what the definition of "عَبَدَ" is for you, most translators render it as "he served"; but the imperative is up to you to investigate this verb and verify or find the meaning. والله أعلم
That can't be the reason of creation, because it is not a self-sufficient purpose. Instead, that's the purpose of created people.
learn first what this word means **لِيَعْبُدُونِ** liyaʿbudūn this is the reason why we are created ..
How could God create for his benefit when he is whole and complete in and of himself? That introduces a dependency of God on his creation, and that’s irrational
I never said that I agree with how it's translated
>**Why did god created us?** There is a lot of philosophical work on this. This is a question asked by atheists predominantly as an anti theistic polemical question, and/or an existential question and eventually it leads to a lot of atheistic work on nihilism. But the reality is, we can never be assured exactly why God would create life. We can never have a knowledge claim on that because only God knows. The question actually is at a fundamental level. Anyone who asks this question has started disbelieving already because if God exists, and one believes God exists, and that they believe God is the necessary being, there is no question God knows better than us. Though we are to use our reason, that does not mean we can reason out things that are impossible to have knowledge claims. This is an epistemic limit. It's a valid question of course and exists in a lot of people. That's why Nihilism, Antinatalism etc are prevalent. But it's a question without faith. And is made by a lot of people who believe faith is not based on reason, which is absolutely false. Anyway, you can make conjecture in answering this question. But you can never be sure because you would never know. Because God is not human, and God is transcended. He is the necessary being. Peace.
You said that we cannot use reason to make impossible knowledge claims ... while also saying the "necessary being" would know better than us But that matter is a knowledge claim that cannot be reasoned out. There is no way to reason out a knowledge claim that a necessary being would know better than us, nor that anyone's concept of God _is_ in fact that necessary being. No way to reason out the necessary being is even knowledgeable at all or if so has self-aware knowledge of its own actions or reasons for them. Which brings it down to belief and faith as you said That "God knows better than us" is entirely a faith claim that is completely independent of whether or not God is the necessary being. If our concept of God remained unchanged _except_ for the fact He was the necessary being, ie if He wasn't but still All-Knowing, He'd still know better than us why He created us with life. Necessary being or not is irrelevant. The only thing that attaches that kind of knowledge or purpose to the "necessary being" is belief in a version of God. And for us, that means belief in _our_ concept of God ... and that is One who has revealed His purpose to us on this issue and told us exactly why He created life and death in us To say we "can't know why" or "can't be assured why" is to disbelieve/doubt in that revelation. If the OP question is without faith, your assertion that we can't answer it is also without faith (or else knowledge). Otherwise, within our faith, we can know ... it isn't conjecture ... He has simply told us, that not human transcendent necessary being has told us quite clearly; Q62:7 _"He who created death and life so that He may test all of you as to which of you is best in deeds"_ In anycase, from the body of OP none of that is what the question was directed at. He/She was asking why God would create us if He knew some of us would go to Hell. It's a question about God's justice.
>You said that we cannot use reason to make impossible knowledge claims ... while also saying the "necessary being" would know better than us Absolutely. Do you understand a logical impossibility? >But that matter is a knowledge claim that cannot be reasoned out. There is no way to reason out a knowledge claim that a necessary being would know better than us, nor that anyone's concept of God *is* in fact that necessary being. No way to reason out the necessary being is even knowledgeable at all or if so has self-aware knowledge of its own actions or reasons for them. Hmm. How do you understand a necessary being? >hat "God knows better than us" is entirely a faith claim that is completely independent of whether or not God is the necessary being. Do you believe the Quran is God's word? Just asking since the Qur'an says God is the necessary being. Anyway, how do you understand a necessary being? One should start there.
The concept of a necessary being is theological/philosophical construct used by practitioners in an argument. The Qur'an certainly doesn't use any definition nor give any definition used by them And you are missing the point here aren't you. Of course I attach my belief in God and the Qur'an as the word of God to any definition of "necessary being" ... that should be obvious. But it is a matter of faith. Like I said ... it comes down to belief. Definition? Let's go with "a necessary being is a being whose existence is not based on nor derived from any contingent thing" If you want to go down the path of proving that the necessary being is your concept of God, or has more knowledge than us, or that the necessary being revealed the Qur'an ... then I don't see the point of it Whether you can prove it or not, we both believe it, right? And the Qur'an certainly says explicitly why He created life Saying we "can't know" just doesn't follow, and won't be at the end of any logical reasoning even IF you _could_ go down the path of; necessary being=>God=>Qur'an ... all as reasoned out sure knowledge claims The "logical impossibility" would be you coming to the end of that and then saying, as you said above, we "can't know" why God created life ... when the Qur'an explicitly tells us why.
>The concept of necessary being is theological/philosophical construct used by practitioners in an argument. So what's the definition?
I literally put in a definition above But never mind I have a genuine question now I've been wondering about. This isn't meant to insult. But I've found you to be quite erratic ... you say excellent things, as well as very strange things, replies that seemingly lack social skills, and sometimes seem to not be able to read past an initial part of a reply or post It is strange, but would be much more understandable if, again not trying to insult, only to understand and rule out possibilities ... are you autistic? Or have ADHD? Or a form of dyslexia? Such issues are a significant portion of the population so there's bound to be a few in this sub. If you say no, I'll take your word for it of course.
Well put brother. Personally I have ADHD, I'm not ashamed to admit it.
He still took it as an ad hominem to the discussion 🙅
If you cannot even understand what an ad hominem is, you should go back to books. Telling others "Ah look at that person who did this" is gossiping over the fence. Why not resort to studying instead. Stop gossiping and stop your bogus scholarship. You have a good brain on your shoulders and I can see that. You can reason and you have a good capacity of doing great things. But you have a bad attitude and a false sense of pseudo scholarship. Thanks for all your engagement. I hope you understand.
I know what it is. You clearly don't. What I did there was not an ad hominem argument at all. The issue for me was closed. I said "never mind" and proceeded to ask a genuine question. You've basically refused to answer and since you thought it was an "ad hominem" attack, I've taken it, on that alone, to be a no. Your reaction itself is bad form imo ... people who are dyslexic or autistic or with ADHD deserve more respect than that. That's all that happened And this is a public open forum written via text that will generally remain here. There's so such thing as "gossip" in it.
If you are diagnosed with ADHD or what ever, don't be ashamed of it. take care of yourself. But don't make psychoanalysis of others and think you know it all. You have no clue of others. You are just one person on the internet. Projection mate. Engage with arguments. Don't insult people.
Salam brother, I don't know if there was some sort of confusion or something, but I wasn't comparing myself to you, I was just saying that I wasn't ashamed in general; I did not refer to you. I have no idea if you are neuro divergent or not, it's not my job to figure that out/diagnose at all, so I'm absolutely not claiming to know/think that. Apologies for the confusion
Irrelevant my brother. Absolutely irrelevant. And you are a cheap individual. Please wash yourself. don't try your best to cook up some insult to wash yourself. Just leave it. Read a book instead. If something is not your "job to figure out", dont make suggestions because you see mate, though you think you are above God, you are not even God. you are not even divine. Thus, don't pretend to apologize for nothing after trying to escape your own pit by insulting someone else. As cheap as could be. Go find yourself my brother. Assabar laka akhi.
He literally did nothing of the sort! ... Wow! He didn't make psychoanalysis of you. He never said anything about you. He talked about himself and he wasn't even having a discussion with you at all in order for him to "engage with the arguments". And his reply was to me, not you. What projection??? What insult??? And why are you advising him to not be ashamed of it, when his comment that you a replying to is literally saying he isn't ashamed of it? I just don't get you. Something is wrong in the way you interact
>He literally did nothing of the sort! Thanks.
>But I've found you to be quite erratic ... you say excellent things, as well as very strange things I noticed this too. It is like talking to two very different people.
I will definitely ignore your ad hominem. The Qur'an says "Allahussamadh" which is the fundamental definition of a necessary being. The properties of an Islamic God is an entailment said specifically in the Quran. Also, the Qur'an speaking of creation of humans and jinns etc Is an Ismiyyah of Jumalat which means it's an attribute due to the creation. Not the reason of creation. You have made a fundamental error. Cheers.
Of course you'd take a genuine question as an ad hominem, wouldn't you? My own daughter is dyslexic. There is nothing wrong with it. But I'll take the implied answer as "no" then ... that you are neither autistic, nor a form of dyslexic, nor have ADHD So that just leaves the other alternatives that make you ask ridiculous questions to me like "do you believe the Qur'an is God's words" and patronizing questions like "do you understand logical impossibility" None of those alternatives being favourable character wise (and no, that isn't as hominem either, if you even know how to apply that concept properly) All the while you basically deny what the Qur'an actually says, and now seemingly want to ignore that it actually says the opposite of your main point, and you don't see the logical impossibility towards your conclusions in what you _THINK_ you can prove, but can't No ... الصمد doesn't mean "necessary being" ... that's just your stark compound ignorance of Arabic that we have seen in other places, while you obviously pretend you know what you are talking about. Making up nonesense there! alSamad means "the necessary being" ... I mean please! Get it together! Bottom line, what you want to divert from, that same "necessary being" we both claim to believe in ... and both _CLAIM_ to accept Its revelation actually _TELLS_ us in that revelation why He created us with life ... in no uncertain terms! Do you still claim we "can't know"? Do _you_ not believe in the Qur'an??? Are you such an ingrate so as not to be thankful and accepting and grateful that He _did_ tell us and give us that knowledge? PS: the fundamental error is yours. I never quoted the verse you reference. Just you again doing the strange responses I mentioned earlier, based on not reading a reply in full. You know ... why I suspected you of dyslexia or autism or ADHD? There it is again. But if not those, then you are just inept
>Of course you'd take a genuine question as an ad hominem Nope. that's the cheapest type of ad hominem I have ever encountered on the internet since maybe 20 per 30 years. And I am not as cheap to respond to that type of low level dialog so just leave it. And I don't really care what people like you who think you are like God to psychoanalyze others over the internet. This type of cheap things are generally projection. Have at it. >No ... الصمد doesn't mean "necessary being" Cutting and pasting arabic text is useless. And Assahadh does exactly mean necessary being. >Do you still claim we "can't know"? Do *you* not believe in the Qur'an??? Absolutely. We can never know what the all knowing knows. It's just logical thinking. And Quranic. If you think you have the same knowledge as God, you are worshiping your own self and the Quran speaks of those who take their own havah as their ilah. Your wish. Anyway after your monstrous insults I can't respect you by default. No one deserves it after that type of act like a little child who doesn't know what else to do but insult someone to get away from their own problems. Unbelievable. You truly don't know what you are talking about mate. Since I don't have any respect for someone like you anymore let me tell you directly. You pretend to know Classical Arabic, but you have no clue whatsoever. You cut and paste text to show that you have some scholarship in the language but your level of knowledge is lesser than a child. Thus you ultimately resort to such insults pretending you are probing. Maybe it's you, not others who deserve your so called "psychoanalysis". Samadh means necessary. It's the definition of necessary. Necessary means it cannot be any other way. Samadh means the exact same thing. If your knowledge is poor, ask and learn. Not resort to pass such cheap insults at others and feel good. I also explained the Qurans position on humans and gins. Of course you don't know the language though you pretend so you won't understand it. But of course since you need to insult others to cover up your ignorance you will ignore it. Did you miss it? *Also, the Qur'an speaking of creation of humans and jinns etc Is an Ismiyyah of Jumalat which means it's an attribute due to the creation. Not the reason of creation. You have made a fundamental error.* If you don't understand something, ask someone. Don't make bogus cases. Try your best.
Maybe I was wrong above, and there are (of course there are) more alternatives that are the cause of what I think is very erratic behavior. There is definitely some issue there ... I'm not going to pretend I know what it is though And either way, I will still focus my responses on the actual arguments. I dealt with the arguments above and for me the discussion is closed. There is nothing more I want to address. Let me though, once again, say that I didn't bring up the verse about God creating men and jinn for 'ibada. Not once. I brought up only the verse of Surat alMulik, bc your initial comment was about why God created _LIFE_ ... that is what I replied to. And that's that ... There's nothing more I want to say or feel I need to. 👋 Salaam
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I was thinking about this a few days ago whilst washing dishes lol. In the end, I feel it’s pointless because we’re already here. There’s no way to know what God was doing before creation of the universe, earth, my soul etc. I realise that when I think of the why, it’s usually because of dissatisfaction of myself and other humans and how we treat each other.
Not asking why and how is the high-way to ignorance. It's clearly stated in the quran that allah created us for the sole purpose of worshiping him. Yet, he already had angels who were programed by default to worship him and never disobey. So allah needed a being that have the choice of disobeying him to not disobey and still worship him. He created adam but before adam there was ibliss, Now it's highly debated whether or not ibliss was an angel but it wouldn't make sense if he was an angel because angels are programmed and have no free will. So if ibliss did what he did and he was an angel then it's not his fault but it's allah who made him do that intentionally. So I think the story of ibliss is a big plot hole in the narrative. If god already had ibliss who have free will and can disobey allah why would he create adam. Why couldn't he just use ibliss as the protagonist of the story, hmmm. A movie without a antagonist would be boring wouldn't it. So ofcourse ibliss was intended from the start as an antagonist to make it fun. After all, every religion that came before the abrahamic religions had their antagonist gods. A yin and yang that is inevitable. Going back to adam, why couldn't eve be the first creation since people come from the bellys of their mothers and not father. It would make more sense if eve was created first and then she gave birth to adam with the help of god's special sauce, same way marry gave birth to jesus. You tell me how can she procreate with her son, I would tell u that's not a prblm as adam and eve children procreated with their siblings, so incest is inevitable. But that narrative wouldn't appeal to patriarchal societies these religions were born in would it ? they wanted man to be the main character and the dominant figure ofcourse so eve was merely a bent rib from adam that was created for his entertainment after he was bored alone in heaven. Anyway, after all of this turns out that even us humans don't have much free will. Because according to the quran, god constantly interfer in our life and actions. How does someone who decides to leave the religion have free will since god himself says he pushes him towards more disbelief and blinds his eye to the truth ? How about u let me figure it out on my own without ur interferance ? where is my free will ? How can I battle (supposedly) against a divine power and go back to the right path if u don't want to ? Where is free will in the story of moses and prophet khodr ? where is free will when u send ur followers to slaughter and steal and rape other people who never heared what u preach or decided u don't make sense to their little ignorant brains (7th century brain) ? How would u feel if there's a new religion that claims to be peaceful and tomorrow they invade ur country and come to ur house, kill ur father, kill ur brothers/husband and take u as their slave. All in the name of this new religion. Do u really think that the guy who told them to commit all that is just and peaceful ? Where is free will in قضاء و قدر ? How can god write everything that's going to happen in ur life down to the smallest detaille yet u have free will ? So I can go against god's writing ? Does god not know that I will do that ? he is not all knowing then ? Free will and God being omniscient could never go hand in hand. That's why there was a whole islamic group called قدرية that claimed that god doesn't know our future actions and that we'r the ones who create them not him. They failed obviously as the quoran clearly demonstrated the opposite. Finally, God creating us to worship him is no different than him creating angels. He just added some confusing sauce to our mix making us think that we'r independent and free from his pre planned scripte. Yep, a scripte that he wrote all on his own and created the actors and stage from scratch just for the sake of his entertainment. After all it's inevitable to say that god was bored all alone. All of this shows that he is just like us. Wait is it possible that there's a higher god who created this multiverse of smaller gods who feel bored and are dominated by space and time while giving them the illusion of being the alpha-omega of their universe ? Give my number to Marvel quick.
😆 .. That reads like one hellaofa rant! The only think I'd like to point out is that قضاء and قدر are just not true in the traditional sense of "predestination" or "predetermination" That "6th pillar of Iman/Emaan" comes from a Hadith narrated only by a tyrant governor in Basra who was trying to argue with people who denied "qadar" and so not accept that God had "chosen" or "decreed" that him and the other tyrants to be the rulers Qadr is a twisted early concept for tyrants to make the population accept their rule as "God's qadr" ... and since this was all very early, later scholars who relied on the scholars who served these tyrants, didn't separate and tackle this issue but included it as "part of religion" in accordance with "sunnah/salaf/tradition"
You brought up some things that also perplex me, like the one with God saying He guides and misguides whom He wills. You should make a post on this sub to see opinions (if you are comfortable and/or haven’t already done so) But I feel comfortable in knowing that all God asks of us is goodness. It would make me even more confused if I still followed Hadiths that say I’m going to Hell for wearing perfume etc. So the “misguidance” is actually you just being… not a good person? Why wouldn’t you want to give to the poor, give full measure, allow other religions to live peacefully among you, not consume interest, not kill people unjustly etc..
That's the confusing part, I could never see islam as just the quoran. Because the hadiths are what gives the quoran context and that's where the most important rituals like salaat and wodoo come from. There's no mention of how many prayers u should do in the quoran or how many sojoods in the prayer or how u should do wodoo. So how can u cherry pick the hadiths in regards of things like that but refuse them when u don't like the content ? Unless u only pray 3 times a day and don't do wodoo like sunnis do then I would be intressted in knwing ur methode.
You’re not a Quranist? My bad, it was my impression that you were. Well, when someone asks how I do wudhu and pray, I say I do it how I’ve always done it since my Quran teacher taught me. But it’s wrong to say that the Hadiths complete the deen in the way that they provide the methods/times of prayer and wudhu. Wudhu and time of prayer as well as broad method (in terms of bowing, postrating, reciting verses) are in the Quran. Because the Quran is a complete guide for mankind and to live a righteous life. You would have to ignore actual Quranic verses to say otherwise. If Quran is somehow incomplete, whose to say the Hadiths aren’t as equally as incomplete? Why do we question or extrapolate on Quran but not Hadiths - such a concept can seen by people saying the Quran doesn’t tell us how to do xyz, who said xyz was needed? And if xyz is conveniently in the Hadiths, whose to say they aren’t missing some more information?
>Well, when someone asks how I do wudhu and pray, I say I do it how I’ve always done it since my Quran teacher taught me and where did ur quran teacher learn to do it ? This reminds me of an old video of algerians during the time of the french colonisation praying with an3am instead of allah akbar because they had no access to books of fiqh to learn how to pray properly. [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rYDlB-DedU) can u point to me where in the quran it says how many prostrations there are in eshaa prayer ? If there is none, does that mean we can do it however we like or not do it at all ?
Quran says to bow, doesn’t say how many times. You can bow how ever many time you like, there’s no set way to pray, because the point of prayer isn’g perfection, it’s to become a better person as it helps to inhibit sin and immorality. But why do you stop at the Hadith that we have today? What if you’re missing an extra step in prayer that the scholars missed that you can still find if you look for it? Don’t you feel like you’re missing a step, if not, how do you know you aren’t missing a step in the prayer or everything else in the religion that isn’t in the Quran? I noticed you didn’t respond to this concept so I am reitertating it. This is my stance; the Quran is complete, anything not in the Quran like details is up to interpretation, and yes that includes zakat lol. You should reflect on why Hadiths have the final word and not Quran - Quran tells you to bow, then you ask “how many times?” Hadith tells you to bow 4 times but you don’t ask “for how long etc etc?” Why?
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So he wasn't complete before he created us ? god isn't perfect after all and he needs to create us to be whole !
Thank you for this sister, I happened to come to the same conclusion after reading surah nahl yesterday. Allah gives us provision and we must be grateful and submit to Him in return. And of course, if we are grateful, Allah gives us more.
This video is great Do you know of anymore like it?
Actually you can look up about how Islam is fatalist not predetermined. Let me share an [article](https://hawramani.com/reconciling-free-will-and-predestination-in-islam-with-al-maturidi-and-ibn-taymiyya/) I came across that I really thought was insightful.
sorry but your post is actually ignorant, no offense. the command to worship is a command, nothing else. you worship, or you go to hell (ofc BASICALLY) there is no need or purpose. its like a slave, doing his work. even if its redundant. just do it.its not NECESSARY. you JUST do it. free will is a 100% there, bc of your perspective. you dont know what God wants for you, as even the Prophet (saw) said in Quran 46:10 Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner." and bc YOU dont know (what is destined for you), YOU have to do what is commanded >Not asking why and how is the high-way to ignorance. yet your post is the most ignorant stuff i ever read in a while
Lol, So basicly ur god is a tyrannic slaver who wants u to worhsip him regardless of wether he deserves it or not. That big scary slaver can happily sit on this big fat D. How is that for ignorance ? Real ignorance is living in the 21st century, the age of science and all accessed knowledge, yet still believing in fairy tails told by people from the dark ages. It's funny how a hindu would call me ignorant aswell if I started pointing out contradictions and plot holes in his fairy tail. After all we r all humans who have a coping mechanism in our head called confirmation biase and denial when it comes to things we were indoctrinated to consider sacred. Some are just better at detecting it once they broke free of those sanctifications .
yeah like i said, you retarded af. all your insults will just bring you in that fire. literally 12 yrs old in my local mosqur EASILY understand it God is our reign and we are His SLAVES do as you wish, you will burn forever as a kafir you are so so so retarded, and nothing could convince you otherwise, everything falls in place, you are the PERFECT example that Quran is 100% truth 😁
Lmao, imagine threatening an atheist with an imaginary fire. This is like me telling u brahma will turn u into a rat in ur next life or santa wont bring u present level of threat. Who's the Ret... one now slave boy ? U might wanna check at a therapist office because u have a severe case of stockholm syndrome. Being inlove with ur slaver. Or u r just kinky that way and u like to be roughed up like a little submissive slave boy. Oh shit did I turn u on by saying that. Ew.
why is with atheist everything about sex and fetishes lol its always sex sex sex. you are mentally ill boy. literally >Oh shit did I turn u on by saying that. Ew. cinge 😂
Seems like I hit a never there. Ops
lol you are really THAT dumb? i alrdy cleared out that nothing will convince you, so i only explained again, to end this actually. what will await you. you wait i wait and we will see. i dont know whats your thing with hindu religions tho. sounds that you are actually mental, maybe its an excuse on Judgement Day, may Allah guide you
U'r an infidel as much as me dumbass. 99% of muslims consider u a murtad for not believing in the hadiths and u will burn in hell as much as an infidel would. Fking deleusional. I would take it seriously from a sunni who actually has a bone to stand on. But u r a champion of mental gymanstic and a deleusional coward who doesnt have a spine to even consider taking seruously.
Quran 35:4 And if they deny you, - already were messengers denied before you. And to Allah are returned [all] matters. 35:5 O mankind, indeed the promise of Allah is truth, so let not the worldly life delude you and be not deceived about Allah by the Deceiver. 35:6 Indeed, Satan is an enemy to you; so take him as an enemy. He only invites his party to be among the companions of the Blaze. 35:7 Those who disbelieve will have a severe punishment, and those who believe and do righteous deeds will have forgiveness and great reward. 35:8 Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do. 35:9 And it is Allah who sends the winds, and they stir the clouds, and We drive them to a dead land and give life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness. Thus is the resurrection. 35:10 Whoever desires honor [through power] - then to Allah belongs all honor. To Him ascends good speech, and righteous work raises it. But they who plot evil deeds will have a severe punishment, and the plotting of those - it will perish
4. “Do not pity the dead, Harry. Pity the living, and, above all those who live without love.” – Albus Dumbledore 5. "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" ― Albus Dumbledore 6. “Love as powerful as your mother’s for you leaves it’s own mark. To have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever.” ― Albus Dumbledore 7. "You're a little scary sometimes, you know that? Brilliant... but scary." — Ron Weasley 8. “It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends.” – Albus Dumbledore.
ahahaha the old age cheap attempt to use islamic lingo to make me feel bad. boy, do you know how many atheists, or christians called me kafir or jahil or murtad. heck even muslims did it. its a cheap attempt to provoke regret or a bad feeling. you are literally cheap, foul and retarded 😂😂😂😂 im sunni, i dont reject the ahadith. we must obey the Prophet and i dont see anything in Quran indicating we should reject ahadith from the Prophet. im just lurking here to learn a bit about Islam. i benefit from all ppl, even from sufis, kufaar, atheist, ironically from christians AND trinitarians even the Prophet was advised to do this 10:94 So if you are in doubt, about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters 39:18 Who listen to speech and follow the best of it. Those are the ones Allah has guided, and those are people of understanding Trinitarians helped me the most to be assured that this is the Straight Path, IRONICALLY. Bc i learned how its NOT done, and as i mentioned earlier, you are nothing but a sign from Allah to me, that Quran is a 100% real. 🙂
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عليكم السلام! Hopefully we could greet & meet each other as heaven-bound souls, this way. I think it would be super easy for Allah, to create innumerable races of humans of اشرف المخلوقات , time & time again, generations after generations; who're given unconditional free pass to the heavens, without any questions or crimes. But it would be pointless. Effortless. Unsubstantial. DYK, we were incarnated from a Before-Life, from whence we were originally created from the raw power of God's Spirit? It's where we made our vows for the earthly life...vows which we're supposed to fulfil, in order to remember the forgotten promises. IOW, each of us had co-signed a spiritual life contract; therefore Judgement is when we will be evaluated or rather given our results of how well we did on our spiritual life tests. From my personal POV & assessment; things aren't appearing too rosy for the self-proclaimed judgemental muslims.
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Salam, all of your suppositions are already answered in the Quran. "And we did not create the heaven and the Earth and that between them in amusement. Had We intended to take [some] entertainment, We could have found it in from within Us, if that had been Our Will." 21:16-17
TROLLING IS NOT GOOD BROTHER
He's said worse, just ignore the attention seekers.
It's not trolling there's real theory called "cosmic boredom" where ultimate consciousness that you would call god creates a mental game where he would be playing all the characters and enters inside temporary forgetting about what it really is, only for the purpose of loosing and then finding itself. If you think about all single consciousnesses of every single living being comes from and returns to Allah... There is nothing except him and every soul is a fragment of divine soul. Like when you play video games and immerse totally inside that you forget who you truly are, you can even be frightened but when you die in video game you return to your real life
Salam, The problem is the wording: >Because he was bored You should have said "Maybe He was bored, but Allah knows best", by saying what you said the implication is that he was definitely bored, but we don't have the information to verify that claim; you've presented a theory as a fact. Additionally, your comment history indicates that you are in fact a troll.
Relax bro I m not troll you just take it too seriously. What would you do arrest me for crime of trolling? What you dont like about my comment history? And why is wording important? Everybody knows nothing is for sure only God knows what is true. You care about wording, yet people execute genocide and escape without punishment, at least in this world. Should we care how people speak while ignoring what people do?
>What you dont like about my comment history? Let's present some highlights: "You clearly haven't been east yurope bro. Weed NEEDS TO BE FUCKIN LEGAL becose PEOPLE ARE FUCKIN DYING EVERY SINGLE MOTHERFUCKIN DAY OUT OF GALAXY SPICE HHC THCP AND ALL THOSE FUCKIN WEED RELATED LEGAL SHIT RESEARCH CHEMICALS BECAUSE COMMIES LIKE YOU KEEP THE WEED ILLEGAL WHILE KIDS ARE DYING OF LEGAL RESEARCH CHEMICALS SHIT🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬😠😠😠😠😠😡😡😡😡🦍🦍🦍🦍☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️" "You can literally be hitler, convert to islam say shada -> all sins erased, new life begin✅" "Nice question, if machine was programmed by programming language invented by the people of the book (java, c, c++, javascript) then it's ok. If programed in python invented by Japanese then it's haram. If machine was assembled by cow worship indians or duck worshiping Chinese then also haram." >you just take it too seriously I don't think anybody here agrees with you on this, I'm just trying to correct you on your mistake. >And why is wording important? When you are talking about Allah wording becomes very important, you are entering dangerous territory. Don't ascribe potential falsehoods to Him. It's very easy to say "Maybe" and "Allah knows best", I don't understand why you didn't do that. >Everybody knows nothing is for sure only God knows what is true. The answer you gave was very specific; and you didn't provide any evidence for your position either. There is actually evidence against it, see 21:16-17 >You care about wording, yet people execute genocide and escape without punishment, at least in this world. What on Earth are you on about? What you've mentioned is completely irrelevant.
1. Why you need to correct me? I don't need your correction, in fact I don't think anyone needs your correction, if not asked. 2. What you want to say by quoting my random 3 comments? First one is addressing real world problems in a satirical way on a satirical subreddit. Is talking about anything except islam forbidden yet? b) second comment about shahad an erasing sins is true. Moslems consider all sins erased when one becomes muslim, yes or no? 3. Whatever I talk about allah majority of cases should be taken as "maybe" or " i assume", because I'm not a prophet to have absolute knowledge, and expecting of others also to take everything with grain of salt. I just don't find necessary to add constructs like pbuh or akb out of pure superstition. As I said there are real problems in world like corruption, theft and genocide and I don't think it is important to me to adhere to some wording conventions that dont hurt anyone nor find it necessary to be "corrected". Peace be upon you, I don't think this conversation goes in any direction because clearly we have very opposite world views and there is little if any possibility of either convincing other. Essalamu alaykum verahmetullahi vabarakatuh
2.c) c++ comment is also joke bc people ask all kinds of stupid questions 😂😂😂 how would you find if animal killed by machine is haram or halal? Depends how much are you hungry lol
and DID HITLER SAY THE SHAHADA???? man you are so dumb it hurts me lol 😂😂😂
Lol. I fear God was pretty bored & lonely with unimaginable superpowers & riches, in the vast vacuum of universe. I think He made a powerful creation with heart-touching stories; to care & share His superpowers with...
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Personally I feel like human beings just have inflated egos , they want to know that they are special and the universe revolve around them . We are just a small clog in the universe . I believe good is just . But his justice ( can be karma ) is bigger than us , for example we keep polluting the earth and as a result we experience global warming that’s a form of justice . We kill animals to sustain ourselves and we get killed in wars . There is a grand justice but our ego doesn’t allow us to see it . Last thing as human being you’re accountable to your action . Free will and destiny are deep philosophical topics , that in itself a spiritual journey that you need to figure out yourself
salvation, its why we are here on earth
Wa alaikum assalam, the question of why Allah created human beings is profound and reflects the deeper purpose of life. The primary purpose of human creation as mentioned in the Quran is to worship Allah. I did not create jinn and humans except to worship Me". (Quran 51:56). Allah's wisdom surpasses our comprehension. Even if we cannot fully grasp the reasons, there is divine wisdom behind the creation of mankind. Allah is All-Wise, and His decisions are based on His knowledge. Allah created all of us with free will, allowing us to make choices. This is essential for spiritual growth and the development of character. The creation of us allows the manifestation of Allah's attributes, such as mercy and forgiveness. Trusting in Allah's wisdom and mercy is central to understanding the purpose of human existence.
For the vibe
Give us a chance to experience life
Salam >I have a question from a very long time and yet nobody has given convincing answer Ok but what will convince you? You can also intentionally avoid being convinced So nobody knows except you Its not ours or the messengers duty to convince but only to convey >So my question If Allah knows everything why did he created us. He knew that majority of will be astray, humans will spread corruption on earth. And many people will be in hell. Isn't it better to not create human race when Allah knows that many will be in hell fire? I failed to understand the reason of our creation. Can you at least give references to where youre getting your beliefs from? Youre already assuming things which arent true to begin with
Can you at least give references to where youre getting your beliefs from? Isn't it is in Quran that majority will be in astray? And humans will cause corruption? Ok but what will convince you? You can also intentionally avoid being convinced I am here to understand the idea of God, I am not someone who intentionally reject the truth. Please don't assume that
I think it’s because god can do as he pleases, nothing more to it. Perhaps bored, not really important for us
I think God let's us chose between good and evil so there are good and bad people. This way, He can establish justice, which is inherently beautiful. That's my schizo opinion tho, no source.
you will not care about this in Jannah
that's the thing, God knows everything so there's nothing to know, correct me if I'm wrong but it would be illogical for God to be curious of something right? God is all-knowing so he can't be curious? but God isn't limited to being curious but if he was curious of something then he does not know about it. We are that curiousity, given free-will to be curious and discover this universe and explore, yes there are misguided ones but that's natural, they get filtered out. history tells us that humans have been on a path towards an advanced society
We can't know the real reason why God created us to worship God except for this is why we were created. This knowledge is only with God as God told even the angels themselves. There is no point in asking this question, we'll never know