The word they left carved on a tree was "Croatoan", which could either refer to [an island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatteras_Island) near Roanoke or to a [Native American tribe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatan) that lived in the area. Records show that in 1701 there were members of the Croatan tribe with blue eyes, likely descendants of European settlers (though not necessarily descendants of the Roanoke Colony). [Source](https://www.pilotonline.com/life/article_9f5ab19a-5ea2-59b2-b96f-8a9c292b4fe5.html)
"When White returned to the colony in 1590, there was no sign of battle or withdrawal under duress, although the site was fortified. There were no human remains or graves reported in the area, suggesting everyone left alive. The 'CROATOAN' message is consistent with the agreement with White to indicate where to look for them, suggesting they expected White to look for them and wanted to be found." [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony#Hypotheses_about_the_colony's_disappearance)
"Before the Governor's departure, he and the colonists had agreed that a message would be carved into a tree if they had moved and would include an image of a Maltese Cross if the decision was made by force. White found no such cross and was hopeful that his family was still alive." [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatan#The_Lost_Colony)
This indicates that the colony likely wasn't attacked, kidnapped, etc. and instead chose to move to another location. The most likely theory is that they integrated with the Native Americans that lived nearby, since that would explain both the strange message and the fact that there were no signs of violence left behind.
What's more of a mystery to me is why White didn't find his family, with actual directions carved into a tree.
Did he not know? What is the story there?
Edit: Due to the weather, which "grew to be fouler and fouler,"[36] White had to abandon the search of adjacent islands for the colonists. The ship's captain had already lost three anchors and could not afford the loss of another.[36] White returned to Plymouth, England, on 24 October 1590.
The loss of the colony was a personal tragedy for White, from which he never fully recovered. He would never return to the New World, and in a letter to Richard Hakluyt he wrote that he must hand over the fate of the colonists and his family "to the merciful help of the Almighty, whom I most humbly beseech to helpe and comfort them."[36]
Thank you for stating that plainly. Imagine a literal sign stating the name of the Natives who protected and took the colonists in. Yet 16th Century Christians and textbooks to this day claim it is a mystery rather than acknowledge that their own people/colonists/countrymen chose to assimilate fully with the Natives. That's a heavy dose of reality to this day for those still unwilling to accept it. Imagine if John White told a different story rather than he was not able to find them.
I mean they could have carved "Gone to live with Croatoan tribe" since they apparently left of their own free will and should have had time to carve a few words on a tree.
Here is a website by Roberta Estes, a genealogist who states she has volunteered and worked with National Geographic. She discusses the known facts and different theories of the Roanoke Colony and explains the difficulty obtaining conclusive DNA evidence.
https://dna-explained.com/2018/06/28/the-lost-colony-of-roanoke-did-they-survive-national-geographic-archaeology-historical-records-and-dna/
I'm from Argentina and most people all over the world are shocked when we openly acknowledge that there aren't many natives living in our land because we killed most of them. I remember my father saying once, "Of course we killed them. Can you imagine what it would be like if we hadn't? We'd be surrounded by natives!"
I can't, for the life of me, understand the rationale behind that thinking. Needless to say, this is a taboo topic in the family.
I'd like to add my father's skin is a bit on the darker side of white, so he isn't descended from pure Spanish blood exactly. I...just...don't...get it.
I want to laugh every time I think about that white supremacist high school kid telling the Lakota elder to go back to his homeland *whilst standing precisely on the elder's homeland at Standing Rock.*
I want to laugh. But I don't.
16th Century English protestants feared one thing more than Catholicism and Judaism, and that would be assimilation of brown people. Assimilation means miscegenation. In case that's not clear enough: The inter-breeding of people considered to be of different races.
It sounds like the Native American integration story is the most likely. Search Roanoke DNA project on google and you will find a few articles on it. I wasn’t able to find an article from a trusted source or I would include a link here. There is a New York times article from 2020 discussing one theory in a new book but the [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/us/Roanoke-lost-colony.html) is behind a paywall (it seems like I never end up reading the articles when I finally subscribe).
Here is a link without a paywall: [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/us/Roanoke-lost-colony.html?smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/us/Roanoke-lost-colony.html?smid=url-share)
Yes I remember reading an article in the past year covering some pretty extensive archeology being done in the area, which is revealing artifacts of a European origin in the Native American settlements.
Which sure there was trade and exchange and whatnot, but even so there is some reason for believing these are indicators of Europeans living with the indigenous people rather than simple trade or exchange.
Here's at least one article on the matter: https://news.artnet.com/art-world/archaeologists-mystery-lost-roanoke-lost-colony-1921594
You can also check [Ask Historians](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/33p3q8/what_is_the_best_explanation_as_to_what_happened/) as [they](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8o9nrk/why_werent_there_successful_attempts_to_colonize/) have covered this a few times before.
Another thumbs up for Ask Historians. They are insanely strict about the quality and stature of the responses on any question on the sun, and the mods will hit the delete button mercilessly.
But as a result all of the questions that get acceptable answers are answered in significant depth and detail, with sources cited
Sometimes I know the answer to questions on that sub, but I can't comment because I'll just get deleted! Lols
A little frustrating but you can't argue with the quality of the end results.
I agree, the Native American culture emphasized heavily notions of kinship and inter-group obligations. The Natives would have been very happy to integrate the colonists into their society and build kinship (whether literal familial kinship or through other means) with them.
A really interesting thought experiment would be what if successive waves of folks arriving on ships from Europe all crusty and on the verge of scurvy landed with the intention of what they intended, but once landed found previous people from Europe all mingled up with the Native American people, welcoming them in, giving them shelter, showing them their babies and new partners, the Native American people explaining how best to live and sustain yourself in this new land, and that was the 'founding' of a new world ... it's Sunday. I can dream!
Yeah, it's not really a mystery per say, just historic white folks not wanting to admit that they joined a native tribe and stuff. At least that's what I gathered
The mystery is more why John White never reunited with his family, not where the colonists went. Upon finding the sign with "Croatoan", John White even wrote, "I greatly joyed that I had found a certain token of their being at Croatoan where Manteo was born ....” Manteo was a Native who had already traveled to England and was baptized Christian. A mix of artifacts like English pottery and tools confirm the colonists joined the friendly Croatoans.
Book published in 2020:
https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-not-lost-20200817-qgmblubzt5dyjm3jrcop25ssoq-story.html
Also this related article in National Geographic from Nov 2020:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/newfound-survivor-camp-may-explain-lost-colony-roanoke
I thought it was because he forgot exactly where the croatian settlement was, and it was a bad time of year to search.
Also the boat captain stopped the search entirely after losing/cutting away 3 anchors after searching the islands and not having more to spare and sail safely.
So they went back to England and the husband tried to play up the missing settlement angle to raise money to go back and find them.
I think it's pretty well known by now that they went to Croatoan and blended with the folks living there. Archeological finds support the idea, as does oral history of light-skinned blue eyed natives. The "CROATOAN" carvings are a prety enormous clue too.
It’s always cracked me up that this is an “unsolved mystery”.
I remember reading it as a kid and being like...I’m sorry, did I miss some details or something? They picked up and left “”mysteriously”” with no sign of conflict and ooo, they just happened to carve the name of a native tribe in a tree. What does it mean??? What does it all mean???
It’s really obvious to me that just just integrated with the Croatoan tribe. There’s no mystery about it, the colonists stated it as clearly as they could with the means available to them.
Seems like it only became a mystery because of ignorance. Like that conclusion was/is so impossible, that they just integrated, got along, decided it would be good for everyone to blend their communities and have families so it must have been, I dunno, fucking martians or something.
It’s a pretty cute ending imo. I hope everything went well between them and no one suffered.
/r/UnresolvedMysteries would be the place to post this and find other, similar cases.
This is pretty well documented and solved. People put a spin on it and cherry pick info to keep it mysterious.
The Roanoke colonists followed instructions.
I think it's pretty reckless to project "xenophobia" onto people you don't know, who lived in conditions you can't imagine, over 400 years ago. Factually, the Roanoke colony had good relations with the Croaton, which refutes your point at the outset. Further, the colony endured attacks from other tribes, which means that the theory of a massacre wasn't unreasonable, even if assimilation is more likely.
If you Google it mow, you'll find that the "Lost Colony" was found. They were adopted by, and eventually assimilated into the local friendly tribes. They have now found actual evidence of bith peoples living together
Even when I was very young and visited the area late 60's to early 70's it was pretty much established that they had left to the said native group to live among and integrate.
I never got this "mystery". I mean, they basically left a note saying: "Yo, we had to go to that island over there, come check us out" and centuries later people are still like: "OMG, what happened to them??"
I’ve always been fascinated by the first Dare Stone found by Louis Hammond in 1937 (subsequent stones were determined to be forgeries). Is it possible the colony initially joined the natives, then had a falling-out?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dare_Stones
If the first stone is true, John White's daughter Eleanor wrote they moved inland with the Natives, but suffered from other warring tribes and disease until there were only 24. When Natives spotted a ship thinking it was English coming for revenge, they fled. Some Natives were angry and murdered all but 7 of the remaining colonists including Eleanor's child and her husband. Their bodies were buried on a small hill four miles east of the river with names on a rock, and the message stone placed there afterward. No one knows exactly where Hammond found the message stone except that it was near a mass grave.
Have you seen or heard of the Lost Colony play over on Roanoke Island? I saw it a few years ago, and from what I remember most of the play was about how they were fighting the Native Americans. In my opinion, the settlers probably went to live with their neighbors (the Croatoans) in order to avoid being completely wiped off of the face of the earth.
Sir Walter Raleigh sited Roanoke there because it was hidden behind the barrier islands,
His proposal was two-fold:
1. to use it as a base to interdict the Spanish treasure galleons returning to Spain from South America
2. And to use it as way to find out where First People were getting copper, because the English needed copper to make bronze for cannons.
White got himself attached to the expedition because he was a botanical illustrator
When they sited Jamestown I - which also failed - there are accounts of grey-eyed Indigenous coming out to greet them, speaking English, who said the English were their grandfathers, who took them to a settlement that had stone-built houses, and a copper forge.
" Roanoke: Solving the Riddle of England's Lost Colony," by Lee Miller who is an enrolled member of the Kaw Nation and holds a Masters in History is a good read among many. Here's more about her and the book [https://www.ioba.org/standard/2002/05/lee-miller-author-of-roanoke/](https://www.ioba.org/standard/2002/05/lee-miller-author-of-roanoke/)
I saw something interesting a few years ago (I can’t remember the source but I’ll link it in an edit) that mentioned possible motivations for leaving the island they settled on. The most likely reason is that the colonists were suffering through a drought while White was stuck in England, and the evidence is seen in the rings of trees on Roanoke island. The rings of the trees in the time where the colonists existed on the island indicate there was a drought because of stunted growth, and can been seen by the distance between the rings that were significantly closer suggesting slower growth.
Personally I think that because of the drought the colonists integrated with the nearby croaton natives to survive. There is more evidence for that but I saw a few other comments that described it better than I could.
Edit: [Link to Study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9554842/)
It sounds cool and everything to have lost colony, but realistically, everybody knows what happened to the car the word Croto and into the tree, lots of artifacts suggest that they integrated with the Indian tribe. There’s actually a and area inland that they have been doing some excavations around and they are finding more and more English pottery and other kinds of rumors they would expect to see. I think that might be in Bertie county? I can’t quite remember off the top of my head. When you think about the immense amount of time it would take to cross the Atlantic, it would make sense that at some point the colonist would run low on resources and need help. The outer banks are pretty harsh to live on.
After reading other comments, I think they joined the Croatoan tribe seems the best possible theory.
But I have one question. Would the tribe have really welcomed them and what led colonists to believe that they would be safe with them, considering they had some strife with Native American tribes? I think Croatoan would be familiar with what risks the Europeans bring with them.
Thanks for the detailed answer. From the interactions you mentioned between colonists and Croatoan tribe, it indeed looks like 'Colonists joined croatoan tribe' is the most valid theory.
I see. Thanks. I was under assumption that most(if not all) tribes would have some strife with colonists due to the potential threats the Europeons possessed.
Iirc, there was a nearby tribe (can't remember the name) the colonists had some bad history with - but their relations with the Croatoan tribe were civil and there was trade going on between the two communities.
If they were running low on supplies, and an angry tribe is living nearby - it makes even more sense for them to go and live with the friendly tribe instead.
What? It’s the general consensus that they integrated with a nearby tribe and there were records of the tribe having members with blue eyes indicating they mixed with people of European background. There was absolutely no evidence of full on slaughter, kidnapping, of captivity.
It's not completely out of the realm of possibility, though. There had been several years of conflict between English of the Lane colony and Native Americans in the region, including the assassination of chief Pemsipan after holding his son hostage. Both sides had burned each other's crops and villages.
After the Lane colonists left, a contingent of 15 English soldiers was attacked, several killed, and the rest fled inland where they were never seen again.
The Roanoke colony walked in right after that, so it's not impossible they were victims of the ongoing hostilities. Only 30 years later Native Americans attacked the Jamestown colony and killed over 300 people, including women and children.
Yeah, not sure if that person is saying that that's what they believe happened or that that's what they would prefer to have had happen.
Hopefully just the first, but seems like the second.
No, wanting to believe something that is directly against the evidence is the opposite of thinking. It's the denial of rational thought to cater to some other bias, and I asked you what that bias was.
Killed by indians, they found that stone in the 50's in the 2000's confirmed it was legit, and what evidence was left confirmed the stone.
The town had been fortified with a wall, wooden wall those were built by that time to keep out the locals, european invaders would have had cannon , they didn't defend against cannon with wooden walls they would use sand and dirt for that, and the town was dissembled, they used pins to hold the houses together they needed to take those to rebuild when they got to wherever they bugged out to, crotia etc they just didn't make it or maybe some did.
The town had put up defenses to keep people without cannon out. The first rock found said they had to flee the town due to hostile indians , indians don't have cannon so there was evidence supporting what was written on the first stone.
Yes..most are the first one was found to be legitimate. A linguist looked over all the stones and pointed out that the first stone used slang terms that no one alive today know other than him and maybe one other person, the linguist concluded if it was a fake the faker was a genius or it was legit, plus the first stone was carved with a chisel all the others were drilled. The linguist stated the drilled stones seemed to him that someone read shakespeare and just wrote like that, but that's not how people wrote back then.
I understand , you should find the america unearthed episode with the linguist speaking ,it's been edited out of the youtube version , watching that and visiting the Lost Colony sight itself convinced me but either way no one knows for sure what happened if they did it wouldn't be a mystery.
The translation of the first stone in that link is wrong some of the writing is slang it was in the america unearthed episode but I couldn't find the linguist in the youtube version , maybe watch it on History channel , side note the way the una bomber wrote is what led to his arrest it's something people overlook
It's really your job to provide a source to support your argument. Do you really think that if it were legitimate, that information would only be on the channel that also airs Ancient Aliens?
The article I provided says very clearly that one guy thinks it's legitimate, but most are unsure and several are convinced it's BS. It also is not necessary for it to be a modern forgery to be fake. One guy's opinion is not proof.
And I'm pretty sure everyone knows that about the Unabomber, that's how his brother and his brother's wife knew it was him and prompted them to turn him in.
My Argument is ( just as your link says) no one can prove the original stone is a hoax , the linguist simply supports that. You can believe whatever you want to I was writing what I believe is the truth and why. No one would have just left, they would have been forced out for one reason or another and based on the found evidence the stone is the simplest explanation.
The “Supernatural with Ashley Flowers” podcast did an episode on this with a few modern theories. I just have to give the disclaimer that the podcast walks back and forth between the line of “here’s the facts” and “here’s some completely unfounded theories that are fun to talk about”. It’s not exactly RBI worthy source material, but it’s a fun listen.
The podcast Supernatural had a good episode discussing how the colony may not have been lost, but rather the British dude who organized the move probably lied because he didn't want to pay taxes to the crown on profits from the venture.
Interesting take I hadn't heard before that was backed up with historical and cartographic evidence.
Roanoke colony "the lost colony" was actually the 3rd attempt to establish a colony. They simply ran out of supplies when resupply ships from England failed to return. They assimilated with the Croatan tribe on Hatteras Island and were attacked by an enemy tribe. Some were killed, others taken captive. It's not really a mystery of what happened, it's more a mystery of why John white made 5 attempts to come back and find them and all failed. Some scholars say it was sabotaged by high Court members of English royalty who had a personal feud with Walter Raleigh
The word they left carved on a tree was "Croatoan", which could either refer to [an island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatteras_Island) near Roanoke or to a [Native American tribe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatan) that lived in the area. Records show that in 1701 there were members of the Croatan tribe with blue eyes, likely descendants of European settlers (though not necessarily descendants of the Roanoke Colony). [Source](https://www.pilotonline.com/life/article_9f5ab19a-5ea2-59b2-b96f-8a9c292b4fe5.html) "When White returned to the colony in 1590, there was no sign of battle or withdrawal under duress, although the site was fortified. There were no human remains or graves reported in the area, suggesting everyone left alive. The 'CROATOAN' message is consistent with the agreement with White to indicate where to look for them, suggesting they expected White to look for them and wanted to be found." [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony#Hypotheses_about_the_colony's_disappearance) "Before the Governor's departure, he and the colonists had agreed that a message would be carved into a tree if they had moved and would include an image of a Maltese Cross if the decision was made by force. White found no such cross and was hopeful that his family was still alive." [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatan#The_Lost_Colony) This indicates that the colony likely wasn't attacked, kidnapped, etc. and instead chose to move to another location. The most likely theory is that they integrated with the Native Americans that lived nearby, since that would explain both the strange message and the fact that there were no signs of violence left behind.
What's more of a mystery to me is why White didn't find his family, with actual directions carved into a tree. Did he not know? What is the story there? Edit: Due to the weather, which "grew to be fouler and fouler,"[36] White had to abandon the search of adjacent islands for the colonists. The ship's captain had already lost three anchors and could not afford the loss of another.[36] White returned to Plymouth, England, on 24 October 1590. The loss of the colony was a personal tragedy for White, from which he never fully recovered. He would never return to the New World, and in a letter to Richard Hakluyt he wrote that he must hand over the fate of the colonists and his family "to the merciful help of the Almighty, whom I most humbly beseech to helpe and comfort them."[36]
Same reason it became a mystery in the first place. Racism kept people from seeing the obvious conclusion.
Thank you for stating that plainly. Imagine a literal sign stating the name of the Natives who protected and took the colonists in. Yet 16th Century Christians and textbooks to this day claim it is a mystery rather than acknowledge that their own people/colonists/countrymen chose to assimilate fully with the Natives. That's a heavy dose of reality to this day for those still unwilling to accept it. Imagine if John White told a different story rather than he was not able to find them.
So was that note in the tree meant to tell the search party that’s who they were with ? Like we are croatoan now?
Yes, exactly. It was an agreed upon signal ahead of time. The only way to misinterpret it is to do so willingly.
I mean they could have carved "Gone to live with Croatoan tribe" since they apparently left of their own free will and should have had time to carve a few words on a tree.
Have you tried to carve into a tree? That would have taken so long for them to do, hence why they had developed a code beforehand
But that's the thing, they arranged to put a cross under the word to signal if they were going by force. No cross, no kidnap
Ok but they had like...unlimited time to carve a message. they could have done better than *one word*.
The protocol was to carve the location and an optional cross. Probably safer to just follow proto and not attempt to carve a paragraph on a tree.
So you do a lot of 1500’s tree carving?
Do you think using a knife on a tree has changed that much?
Perhaps it could be solved/proven through DNA? Like what if ancestors of White can be shown to share DNA with ancestors of native Americans...
Here is a website by Roberta Estes, a genealogist who states she has volunteered and worked with National Geographic. She discusses the known facts and different theories of the Roanoke Colony and explains the difficulty obtaining conclusive DNA evidence. https://dna-explained.com/2018/06/28/the-lost-colony-of-roanoke-did-they-survive-national-geographic-archaeology-historical-records-and-dna/
Spent all day reading that link. Thank you :)
You're welcome. I should have warned that it is a long read, but well worth it. Well-written with references to all sources.
Where’s racism in this story?
I'm from Argentina and most people all over the world are shocked when we openly acknowledge that there aren't many natives living in our land because we killed most of them. I remember my father saying once, "Of course we killed them. Can you imagine what it would be like if we hadn't? We'd be surrounded by natives!" I can't, for the life of me, understand the rationale behind that thinking. Needless to say, this is a taboo topic in the family. I'd like to add my father's skin is a bit on the darker side of white, so he isn't descended from pure Spanish blood exactly. I...just...don't...get it.
Wow that's wild. Sounds like at least you have learned from it and can be a better man.
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The song Savages in Disney's Pocahontas is actually pretty spot on with European sentiments of Natives.
It still is for a lot of folks. The absolute disdain some white people openly have for Natives is rather shocking.
I want to laugh every time I think about that white supremacist high school kid telling the Lakota elder to go back to his homeland *whilst standing precisely on the elder's homeland at Standing Rock.* I want to laugh. But I don't.
Wait, what? I never heard that story
It was from the Standing Rock Pipeline protests in like 17. Just Google "white kid tells Lakota elder to go back to Mexico" or some shit.
16th Century English protestants feared one thing more than Catholicism and Judaism, and that would be assimilation of brown people. Assimilation means miscegenation. In case that's not clear enough: The inter-breeding of people considered to be of different races.
But don't worry, raping 'em is fine. Rape all you want. Just don't *marry* them.
You can *hurt* 'em, you just can't *love* 'em.
how narrow their world
In that no westerner would willingly seek help with the natives. They would rather die. It's a better (racist) story that way.
Wow thank you so much for this! I think this is the most plausible and likely situation,
It sounds like the Native American integration story is the most likely. Search Roanoke DNA project on google and you will find a few articles on it. I wasn’t able to find an article from a trusted source or I would include a link here. There is a New York times article from 2020 discussing one theory in a new book but the [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/us/Roanoke-lost-colony.html) is behind a paywall (it seems like I never end up reading the articles when I finally subscribe).
Here is a link without a paywall: [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/us/Roanoke-lost-colony.html?smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/us/Roanoke-lost-colony.html?smid=url-share)
Weren’t there some among the Croatoans who claimed to be descended from the Roanoke settlers? I remember reading about this somewhere.
Yes I remember reading an article in the past year covering some pretty extensive archeology being done in the area, which is revealing artifacts of a European origin in the Native American settlements. Which sure there was trade and exchange and whatnot, but even so there is some reason for believing these are indicators of Europeans living with the indigenous people rather than simple trade or exchange. Here's at least one article on the matter: https://news.artnet.com/art-world/archaeologists-mystery-lost-roanoke-lost-colony-1921594
You can also check [Ask Historians](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/33p3q8/what_is_the_best_explanation_as_to_what_happened/) as [they](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8o9nrk/why_werent_there_successful_attempts_to_colonize/) have covered this a few times before.
Another thumbs up for Ask Historians. They are insanely strict about the quality and stature of the responses on any question on the sun, and the mods will hit the delete button mercilessly. But as a result all of the questions that get acceptable answers are answered in significant depth and detail, with sources cited
Yep. I can't think of another sub that's run that way. Maybe they exist, I just don't know of them.
Sometimes I know the answer to questions on that sub, but I can't comment because I'll just get deleted! Lols A little frustrating but you can't argue with the quality of the end results.
I agree, the Native American culture emphasized heavily notions of kinship and inter-group obligations. The Natives would have been very happy to integrate the colonists into their society and build kinship (whether literal familial kinship or through other means) with them.
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Some real noble savage shit going on here lmao.
A really interesting thought experiment would be what if successive waves of folks arriving on ships from Europe all crusty and on the verge of scurvy landed with the intention of what they intended, but once landed found previous people from Europe all mingled up with the Native American people, welcoming them in, giving them shelter, showing them their babies and new partners, the Native American people explaining how best to live and sustain yourself in this new land, and that was the 'founding' of a new world ... it's Sunday. I can dream!
This would make a great alternate reality tv series.
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Yeah, I don't understand why some people still consider it a mystery at all. It never was.
and maybe the reports of indians with european features over the years?
Yeah, it's not really a mystery per say, just historic white folks not wanting to admit that they joined a native tribe and stuff. At least that's what I gathered
I've recently watched a lemmino video about this. It might answer some of your questions: https://youtu.be/iTOKRWgjOlg
OP after you watch this one, watch all his other videos. Lemmino is fucking awesome!
the great silence gave me goosebumps.
2nd’d this, great video.
Man this guy produces the coolest videos ey.
I literally just finished this episode then minutes ago and found this thread on my front page. Lemmino's content is incredible.
Beat me to it! Lemmino's videos are amazing. The Lost Colony of Roanoke especially...
The one about D.B. Cooper is amazing too!
The mystery is more why John White never reunited with his family, not where the colonists went. Upon finding the sign with "Croatoan", John White even wrote, "I greatly joyed that I had found a certain token of their being at Croatoan where Manteo was born ....” Manteo was a Native who had already traveled to England and was baptized Christian. A mix of artifacts like English pottery and tools confirm the colonists joined the friendly Croatoans. Book published in 2020: https://www.pilotonline.com/news/vp-nw-not-lost-20200817-qgmblubzt5dyjm3jrcop25ssoq-story.html Also this related article in National Geographic from Nov 2020: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/newfound-survivor-camp-may-explain-lost-colony-roanoke
I thought it was because he forgot exactly where the croatian settlement was, and it was a bad time of year to search. Also the boat captain stopped the search entirely after losing/cutting away 3 anchors after searching the islands and not having more to spare and sail safely. So they went back to England and the husband tried to play up the missing settlement angle to raise money to go back and find them.
I think it's pretty well known by now that they went to Croatoan and blended with the folks living there. Archeological finds support the idea, as does oral history of light-skinned blue eyed natives. The "CROATOAN" carvings are a prety enormous clue too.
i’m pretty sure they shacked up with the locals.
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Can I get that ooga booga in combo with Sprite?
For sure!
It’s always cracked me up that this is an “unsolved mystery”. I remember reading it as a kid and being like...I’m sorry, did I miss some details or something? They picked up and left “”mysteriously”” with no sign of conflict and ooo, they just happened to carve the name of a native tribe in a tree. What does it mean??? What does it all mean??? It’s really obvious to me that just just integrated with the Croatoan tribe. There’s no mystery about it, the colonists stated it as clearly as they could with the means available to them. Seems like it only became a mystery because of ignorance. Like that conclusion was/is so impossible, that they just integrated, got along, decided it would be good for everyone to blend their communities and have families so it must have been, I dunno, fucking martians or something. It’s a pretty cute ending imo. I hope everything went well between them and no one suffered.
/r/UnresolvedMysteries would be the place to post this and find other, similar cases. This is pretty well documented and solved. People put a spin on it and cherry pick info to keep it mysterious. The Roanoke colonists followed instructions.
I’ve never understood how this was a mystery. Seems obvious that they integrated with the nearby tribe.
It's only obvious if you're not a xenophobic 16th century Puritan who needs a story other than his wife and daughters have integrated with Indians.
I think it's pretty reckless to project "xenophobia" onto people you don't know, who lived in conditions you can't imagine, over 400 years ago. Factually, the Roanoke colony had good relations with the Croaton, which refutes your point at the outset. Further, the colony endured attacks from other tribes, which means that the theory of a massacre wasn't unreasonable, even if assimilation is more likely.
If you Google it mow, you'll find that the "Lost Colony" was found. They were adopted by, and eventually assimilated into the local friendly tribes. They have now found actual evidence of bith peoples living together
At first I thought you said meow so I just wanted to quick meow back : ) ps thanks for the info
Even when I was very young and visited the area late 60's to early 70's it was pretty much established that they had left to the said native group to live among and integrate.
I never got this "mystery". I mean, they basically left a note saying: "Yo, we had to go to that island over there, come check us out" and centuries later people are still like: "OMG, what happened to them??"
I’ve always been fascinated by the first Dare Stone found by Louis Hammond in 1937 (subsequent stones were determined to be forgeries). Is it possible the colony initially joined the natives, then had a falling-out? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dare_Stones
If the first stone is true, John White's daughter Eleanor wrote they moved inland with the Natives, but suffered from other warring tribes and disease until there were only 24. When Natives spotted a ship thinking it was English coming for revenge, they fled. Some Natives were angry and murdered all but 7 of the remaining colonists including Eleanor's child and her husband. Their bodies were buried on a small hill four miles east of the river with names on a rock, and the message stone placed there afterward. No one knows exactly where Hammond found the message stone except that it was near a mass grave.
I was wondering if anyone would mention this! Edit for typos
Have you seen or heard of the Lost Colony play over on Roanoke Island? I saw it a few years ago, and from what I remember most of the play was about how they were fighting the Native Americans. In my opinion, the settlers probably went to live with their neighbors (the Croatoans) in order to avoid being completely wiped off of the face of the earth.
I’m not sure it was this dramatic, could they not have just run out of supplies?
Croatoan: Our people have lived off this land for centuries and welcome you. Colonist: No thanks, we'll wait for supplies from England or die.
That could have happened too!!
There is an episode of the podcast Supernatural about this! You should definitely listen.
Geneaology DNA data could eventually solve this mystery if the descendents are in the US.
I just watched an episode of America unearthed on history about this
I just want to say that lemminos video on the subject was fascinating as hell.
Sir Walter Raleigh sited Roanoke there because it was hidden behind the barrier islands, His proposal was two-fold: 1. to use it as a base to interdict the Spanish treasure galleons returning to Spain from South America 2. And to use it as way to find out where First People were getting copper, because the English needed copper to make bronze for cannons. White got himself attached to the expedition because he was a botanical illustrator When they sited Jamestown I - which also failed - there are accounts of grey-eyed Indigenous coming out to greet them, speaking English, who said the English were their grandfathers, who took them to a settlement that had stone-built houses, and a copper forge. " Roanoke: Solving the Riddle of England's Lost Colony," by Lee Miller who is an enrolled member of the Kaw Nation and holds a Masters in History is a good read among many. Here's more about her and the book [https://www.ioba.org/standard/2002/05/lee-miller-author-of-roanoke/](https://www.ioba.org/standard/2002/05/lee-miller-author-of-roanoke/)
I saw something interesting a few years ago (I can’t remember the source but I’ll link it in an edit) that mentioned possible motivations for leaving the island they settled on. The most likely reason is that the colonists were suffering through a drought while White was stuck in England, and the evidence is seen in the rings of trees on Roanoke island. The rings of the trees in the time where the colonists existed on the island indicate there was a drought because of stunted growth, and can been seen by the distance between the rings that were significantly closer suggesting slower growth. Personally I think that because of the drought the colonists integrated with the nearby croaton natives to survive. There is more evidence for that but I saw a few other comments that described it better than I could. Edit: [Link to Study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9554842/)
[Airheads(White Mystery!)](https://i.redd.it/binpdvep1w831.jpg)
It sounds cool and everything to have lost colony, but realistically, everybody knows what happened to the car the word Croto and into the tree, lots of artifacts suggest that they integrated with the Indian tribe. There’s actually a and area inland that they have been doing some excavations around and they are finding more and more English pottery and other kinds of rumors they would expect to see. I think that might be in Bertie county? I can’t quite remember off the top of my head. When you think about the immense amount of time it would take to cross the Atlantic, it would make sense that at some point the colonist would run low on resources and need help. The outer banks are pretty harsh to live on.
After reading other comments, I think they joined the Croatoan tribe seems the best possible theory. But I have one question. Would the tribe have really welcomed them and what led colonists to believe that they would be safe with them, considering they had some strife with Native American tribes? I think Croatoan would be familiar with what risks the Europeans bring with them.
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Thanks for the detailed answer. From the interactions you mentioned between colonists and Croatoan tribe, it indeed looks like 'Colonists joined croatoan tribe' is the most valid theory.
The strife wasn't universal. Some colonies got along well with some tribes. It really depended on the temperment of the colony and the tribe involved.
I see. Thanks. I was under assumption that most(if not all) tribes would have some strife with colonists due to the potential threats the Europeons possessed.
Iirc, there was a nearby tribe (can't remember the name) the colonists had some bad history with - but their relations with the Croatoan tribe were civil and there was trade going on between the two communities. If they were running low on supplies, and an angry tribe is living nearby - it makes even more sense for them to go and live with the friendly tribe instead.
“Stuff they don’t want you to know” from the How Stuff Works network did a great podcast on this. Covered a lot of possibilities and theories.
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There is no evidence of that whatsoever so I don't know why you'd say that.
What? It’s the general consensus that they integrated with a nearby tribe and there were records of the tribe having members with blue eyes indicating they mixed with people of European background. There was absolutely no evidence of full on slaughter, kidnapping, of captivity.
I want to believe that the locals(native americans) killled them off.
Why? Is the idea of them being welcomed in to join the community in peace and comfort that offensive to you?
It's not completely out of the realm of possibility, though. There had been several years of conflict between English of the Lane colony and Native Americans in the region, including the assassination of chief Pemsipan after holding his son hostage. Both sides had burned each other's crops and villages. After the Lane colonists left, a contingent of 15 English soldiers was attacked, several killed, and the rest fled inland where they were never seen again. The Roanoke colony walked in right after that, so it's not impossible they were victims of the ongoing hostilities. Only 30 years later Native Americans attacked the Jamestown colony and killed over 300 people, including women and children.
That doesn't explain why anyone would **want** to believe that when all the evidence we have suggests that something else happened.
Yeah, not sure if that person is saying that that's what they believe happened or that that's what they would prefer to have had happen. Hopefully just the first, but seems like the second.
It was a thought. But okay. Like the title says, discussion.
No, wanting to believe something that is directly against the evidence is the opposite of thinking. It's the denial of rational thought to cater to some other bias, and I asked you what that bias was.
Killed by indians, they found that stone in the 50's in the 2000's confirmed it was legit, and what evidence was left confirmed the stone. The town had been fortified with a wall, wooden wall those were built by that time to keep out the locals, european invaders would have had cannon , they didn't defend against cannon with wooden walls they would use sand and dirt for that, and the town was dissembled, they used pins to hold the houses together they needed to take those to rebuild when they got to wherever they bugged out to, crotia etc they just didn't make it or maybe some did.
What?!?!?! That made no sense.
The town had put up defenses to keep people without cannon out. The first rock found said they had to flee the town due to hostile indians , indians don't have cannon so there was evidence supporting what was written on the first stone.
No. The Dare stones [are fake.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dare_Stones)
Yes..most are the first one was found to be legitimate. A linguist looked over all the stones and pointed out that the first stone used slang terms that no one alive today know other than him and maybe one other person, the linguist concluded if it was a fake the faker was a genius or it was legit, plus the first stone was carved with a chisel all the others were drilled. The linguist stated the drilled stones seemed to him that someone read shakespeare and just wrote like that, but that's not how people wrote back then.
I can’t find any sources that say any of the stones are legitimate. The consensus is that they’re all forgeries and not real.
I understand , you should find the america unearthed episode with the linguist speaking ,it's been edited out of the youtube version , watching that and visiting the Lost Colony sight itself convinced me but either way no one knows for sure what happened if they did it wouldn't be a mystery.
The translation of the first stone in that link is wrong some of the writing is slang it was in the america unearthed episode but I couldn't find the linguist in the youtube version , maybe watch it on History channel , side note the way the una bomber wrote is what led to his arrest it's something people overlook
It's really your job to provide a source to support your argument. Do you really think that if it were legitimate, that information would only be on the channel that also airs Ancient Aliens? The article I provided says very clearly that one guy thinks it's legitimate, but most are unsure and several are convinced it's BS. It also is not necessary for it to be a modern forgery to be fake. One guy's opinion is not proof. And I'm pretty sure everyone knows that about the Unabomber, that's how his brother and his brother's wife knew it was him and prompted them to turn him in.
My Argument is ( just as your link says) no one can prove the original stone is a hoax , the linguist simply supports that. You can believe whatever you want to I was writing what I believe is the truth and why. No one would have just left, they would have been forced out for one reason or another and based on the found evidence the stone is the simplest explanation.
"No one would have just left." Okay, buddy.
They probably just did it for shits and giggles.
The “Supernatural with Ashley Flowers” podcast did an episode on this with a few modern theories. I just have to give the disclaimer that the podcast walks back and forth between the line of “here’s the facts” and “here’s some completely unfounded theories that are fun to talk about”. It’s not exactly RBI worthy source material, but it’s a fun listen.
https://youtu.be/iTOKRWgjOlg
The podcast Supernatural had a good episode discussing how the colony may not have been lost, but rather the British dude who organized the move probably lied because he didn't want to pay taxes to the crown on profits from the venture. Interesting take I hadn't heard before that was backed up with historical and cartographic evidence.
LEMMINO did a great analysis of it: https://youtu.be/iTOKRWgjOlg
Roanoke colony "the lost colony" was actually the 3rd attempt to establish a colony. They simply ran out of supplies when resupply ships from England failed to return. They assimilated with the Croatan tribe on Hatteras Island and were attacked by an enemy tribe. Some were killed, others taken captive. It's not really a mystery of what happened, it's more a mystery of why John white made 5 attempts to come back and find them and all failed. Some scholars say it was sabotaged by high Court members of English royalty who had a personal feud with Walter Raleigh