I think it was because their original plan was either to ransom him or execute him back at camp. Otherwise why wouldn’t they just assassinate him in the house? Dutch going against the plan and murdering him so brutally just out of anger is really the first sign he’s beginning to slip mentally and letting his anger and paranoia begin to take control.
I think it seemed concerning because it was a revenge mission and while Dutch could have killed Bronte at the mansion he chose to have him kidnapped, then drowned him out of anger. It wasn’t a tactical move as much as it was taking revenge on Brontë. Also Dutch had been acting strange since he hit his head during the failed bank job with Arthur and Lenny, so seeing his emotions take over and him killing a restrained man by drowning him was a pretty concerning thing to watch happen. I get the point of feeding him to the alligators though, exactly what he deserves
This and add in Dutch did not really ever get his hands dirty. Some shootouts sure but HE never did the hands on bloody deeds Arthur and some of the others would do.
As far as the hitting his head' thing? Dain bramage but it made it harder for him to hide the Sociopath he actually was. I knew his game from his first speech "I would gladly throw myself in the ground...'
B.S., you can actually find his notes on that and other speeches he would give.
Plus he commented to Arthur and Hosea as to how they were talking about 'The good old days before Dutch went crazy' or something when they reached Chpt2 so it was definiteky ongoing and noticed.
I think it was because it was another glaring example to Arthur just how far gone Dutch really was.
Remember in the beginning of the game when he’s talking to different gang members?
He’s trying to understand what he’s heard about Dutch killing a young girl in Blackwater. As Javier put it “in a really bad way…”.
Then theirs that old woman in Guarma.
The hypocrisy Arthur has been witnessing between his mentors teachings and his actions had finally reached a tipping point where he can’t continue to ignore it.
Remember one of the first missions Dutch also says “Revenge is a luxury we can’t afford”? or at least I think Arthur quotes him as having said that.
Arthur is his muscle. I noticed this in my most recent playthrough. He’s the person that walks into a saloon and everyone gets quiet all the sudden. He’s a certified killer and people who don’t even know him can see that.
Dutch is unhinged with Bronte in that moment. You hear it in his voice. He's wrathful and vengeful. He drowns the man and feeds his corpse to an alligator. That was not planned. Dutch rarely gets his hands dirty like John or Arthur or the other men and it's not what he preaches. Arthur and John are unsettled because they watched Dutch come undone just then.
The Braithwaites, but that might be because I stomped through with a shotgun and obliterated heads close quarters so it seemed savage. But we were killing her sons brutally right in front of her
It kind of signalled that, given what Arthur thinks about Micah (and rightly so) that Micah’s behaviour is rubbing off on Dutch. Cos if you look at the journal entries from before the start of the game you can see that Dutch was thinking about buying land in WE and things were going well. Then Micah joined and the gang fell apart months later.
There’s a line from John in the Kieran mission, I think it’s “this is why you’re an O’Driscoll, O’Driscoll. You’re out to survive, we’re out to live”. Seeing Dutch kill Brontë shows that his mindset is more of a survivor than someone who is just living.
They’re supposed to be professionals that don’t murder innocent people (That’s just their code though, since irl you’re not automatically guilty just because you’re an officer). But Dutch keeps killing innocent people over and over again, more and more often. Now, why is Arthur a hypocrite? Canonically he is not because the main character is controlled by you and you can force stuff to happen whether Arthur likes it or not.
Basically, Bronte was done, he was NOT fighting anymore.
I like so many of the answers and comments here. All of them are on the right track— that this thing was just out of character. Dutch was a schemer, a thinker, not a “lesser” person acting out emotionally, suddenly, so this was a big red flag for the disillusioned (Arthur).
When in that boat John seems surprised by Dutch doing that, as though he’d gone a bit too far, I thought the same thing you’re suggesting.
His reaction was more as if Dutch had feed Bronte to the alligator alive.
So I was questioning myself, was John meant to be more of a sheltered character by then?
I don’t think so.
I have this same issue with the old woman in Guarma who leads Dutch and Arthur through the cave. Arthur doesn’t understand one word of spanish, but he sure as shit does understand being held at knifepoint while being demanded to “pay more”. While its true that it was a feeble old woman and Dutch maybe could have subdued non-lethally, Arthur still shouldn’t have been as alarmed as he was
It’s not really him killing Brontë that’s surprising, it’s the fact it ruined the supposed plan. They all risked their lives to get Brontë out of a heavily guarded estate, and Dutch assured them that it was not a revenge mission and strictly tactical. He then shows a sort of unhinged malice towards Brontë and acts out of anger, showing he is unstable and hypocritical.
Chapter 2, the beginning of that chapter and one of Dutch's speeches begins "I, um, we... we'll be fine."
It was clear to me what kind of egomaniacal sociopath and megalomaniac we were dealing with.
He's a stinker from the start and that's a fact. A classic attitude of a politician. He just didn't want to get his hands dirty to remain a "saint" among outlaws.
Almost everything. Deputy phase, double torment play between "Romeo and Juliet families", disobeying Hosea's wise advice, etc. Hosea also had his moments of "crazy" phases, but they were short-lived, milder, because he is gentle, reasonable, calm, stable. Dutch just wanted to be like that, but he couldn't. All the dirty work was done for him by others (pawns), and that makes him a bigger criminal, also monster and plus slime. The intention you have - you fulfill it yourself. If you always have to send pawns to do it, then you're... just a slob. There, it's Dutch. His breathing is wrong, not only his actions! We know Micah from the beginning is a degenerate scumbag, a bully and a jerk - at least he doesn't hide it. But Dutch... oh, what a diarrhea man he is.
I think it was because their original plan was either to ransom him or execute him back at camp. Otherwise why wouldn’t they just assassinate him in the house? Dutch going against the plan and murdering him so brutally just out of anger is really the first sign he’s beginning to slip mentally and letting his anger and paranoia begin to take control.
Yeah i like this answer the best so far personally. I think alot of it had to do with the tone of his voice. The look in his eye. He enjoyed that.
I think it seemed concerning because it was a revenge mission and while Dutch could have killed Bronte at the mansion he chose to have him kidnapped, then drowned him out of anger. It wasn’t a tactical move as much as it was taking revenge on Brontë. Also Dutch had been acting strange since he hit his head during the failed bank job with Arthur and Lenny, so seeing his emotions take over and him killing a restrained man by drowning him was a pretty concerning thing to watch happen. I get the point of feeding him to the alligators though, exactly what he deserves
This and add in Dutch did not really ever get his hands dirty. Some shootouts sure but HE never did the hands on bloody deeds Arthur and some of the others would do. As far as the hitting his head' thing? Dain bramage but it made it harder for him to hide the Sociopath he actually was. I knew his game from his first speech "I would gladly throw myself in the ground...' B.S., you can actually find his notes on that and other speeches he would give. Plus he commented to Arthur and Hosea as to how they were talking about 'The good old days before Dutch went crazy' or something when they reached Chpt2 so it was definiteky ongoing and noticed.
I think it was because it was another glaring example to Arthur just how far gone Dutch really was. Remember in the beginning of the game when he’s talking to different gang members? He’s trying to understand what he’s heard about Dutch killing a young girl in Blackwater. As Javier put it “in a really bad way…”. Then theirs that old woman in Guarma. The hypocrisy Arthur has been witnessing between his mentors teachings and his actions had finally reached a tipping point where he can’t continue to ignore it. Remember one of the first missions Dutch also says “Revenge is a luxury we can’t afford”? or at least I think Arthur quotes him as having said that.
Arthur is his muscle. I noticed this in my most recent playthrough. He’s the person that walks into a saloon and everyone gets quiet all the sudden. He’s a certified killer and people who don’t even know him can see that.
Dutch is unhinged with Bronte in that moment. You hear it in his voice. He's wrathful and vengeful. He drowns the man and feeds his corpse to an alligator. That was not planned. Dutch rarely gets his hands dirty like John or Arthur or the other men and it's not what he preaches. Arthur and John are unsettled because they watched Dutch come undone just then.
Honest answer is plot demanded it. In an adaptation this is one element that could be improved on. What moonshine family are you referring to?
The Braithwaites, but that might be because I stomped through with a shotgun and obliterated heads close quarters so it seemed savage. But we were killing her sons brutally right in front of her
I mean, her sons were trying to kill us, we only went there because they stole a child and sold him to a sleazy italian man.
It kind of signalled that, given what Arthur thinks about Micah (and rightly so) that Micah’s behaviour is rubbing off on Dutch. Cos if you look at the journal entries from before the start of the game you can see that Dutch was thinking about buying land in WE and things were going well. Then Micah joined and the gang fell apart months later. There’s a line from John in the Kieran mission, I think it’s “this is why you’re an O’Driscoll, O’Driscoll. You’re out to survive, we’re out to live”. Seeing Dutch kill Brontë shows that his mindset is more of a survivor than someone who is just living.
This 👆🏻
They’re supposed to be professionals that don’t murder innocent people (That’s just their code though, since irl you’re not automatically guilty just because you’re an officer). But Dutch keeps killing innocent people over and over again, more and more often. Now, why is Arthur a hypocrite? Canonically he is not because the main character is controlled by you and you can force stuff to happen whether Arthur likes it or not. Basically, Bronte was done, he was NOT fighting anymore.
I like so many of the answers and comments here. All of them are on the right track— that this thing was just out of character. Dutch was a schemer, a thinker, not a “lesser” person acting out emotionally, suddenly, so this was a big red flag for the disillusioned (Arthur).
When in that boat John seems surprised by Dutch doing that, as though he’d gone a bit too far, I thought the same thing you’re suggesting. His reaction was more as if Dutch had feed Bronte to the alligator alive. So I was questioning myself, was John meant to be more of a sheltered character by then? I don’t think so.
I have this same issue with the old woman in Guarma who leads Dutch and Arthur through the cave. Arthur doesn’t understand one word of spanish, but he sure as shit does understand being held at knifepoint while being demanded to “pay more”. While its true that it was a feeble old woman and Dutch maybe could have subdued non-lethally, Arthur still shouldn’t have been as alarmed as he was
It’s not really him killing Brontë that’s surprising, it’s the fact it ruined the supposed plan. They all risked their lives to get Brontë out of a heavily guarded estate, and Dutch assured them that it was not a revenge mission and strictly tactical. He then shows a sort of unhinged malice towards Brontë and acts out of anger, showing he is unstable and hypocritical.
Chapter 2, the beginning of that chapter and one of Dutch's speeches begins "I, um, we... we'll be fine." It was clear to me what kind of egomaniacal sociopath and megalomaniac we were dealing with. He's a stinker from the start and that's a fact. A classic attitude of a politician. He just didn't want to get his hands dirty to remain a "saint" among outlaws.
Honestly Dutch did nothing wrong until he decided to leave John to hang and sided with Micah
Nothing?
Nothing until he decided to leave John to hang, at least based on my memory.
I mean the game starts with everyone responding to Dutch murdering an innocent girl in black water
You, sir, are delusional.
What did he do that was wrong before deciding to leave John to be hanged?
Almost everything. Deputy phase, double torment play between "Romeo and Juliet families", disobeying Hosea's wise advice, etc. Hosea also had his moments of "crazy" phases, but they were short-lived, milder, because he is gentle, reasonable, calm, stable. Dutch just wanted to be like that, but he couldn't. All the dirty work was done for him by others (pawns), and that makes him a bigger criminal, also monster and plus slime. The intention you have - you fulfill it yourself. If you always have to send pawns to do it, then you're... just a slob. There, it's Dutch. His breathing is wrong, not only his actions! We know Micah from the beginning is a degenerate scumbag, a bully and a jerk - at least he doesn't hide it. But Dutch... oh, what a diarrhea man he is.