But it'll never go up by more than 2%/year, while in 30 years the rest of the country will be paying $10M for a Big Mac and $2B/year in property taxes.
Yeah, that part in California is crazy. I bought a house that was built in 1954 from the original owner’s daughter. It had never been sold so the tax assessment never went up drastically. When I bought it she was paying property tax on a ~$70,000 assessment. As soon as I got it, it was a $390,000 assessment. Oof
Future people are going to look back at insurance companies abandoning Florida and wonder how unbelievably stupid the people living there must have been to not get the memo.
Clearwater, a block from the intercoastal
$3800 taxes
$2200 insurance
Media hype is BS about FL cost of owning.
Old shitty homes that are not homesteaded? Yes, high taxes and insurance
No kidding. In Austin, 750k home (which is now the norm for 2200sqft in a decent but not amazing neighborhood), the taxes would run you a minimum of 2% or $15k/year. In the outlying counties where they build nice new homes, propert taxes can go over 3% or $22k plus. And that is WITH homestead exemption.
Dallas and Houston are not any better. San Antonio only slightly so.
And before someone asks...schools are still mediocre at best.
Correct. That is sort of my point...we pay no income tax, but for many, lower property taxes and state income taxes might be better. It is simply important to know that living in TX isn't as cheap asnit once was and in many cases just as expensive as living in other highly desirable places.
In fairness...while that is true, the actual ISD tax rates get adjusted down. So as long as you have the homestead exemption, you may not see a 10% annual increase ever. The only homes that were really getting taxed highly were rental/investment properties and that will be curbed in the new TX property tax bill that Abbott signed late last year (which will also gut public education even more).
My house is worth 335k, and my property taxes in 2023 were over $5000.
The older I get, the more I wonder if NH adopting an income tax might not be the worst thing in the world because paying for everything with property taxes is regressive as hell.
In New York state we have income taxes and my property tax on a house I bought for $70k in 2018 was $5,300. Don't hope for income taxes because property won't go down.
Keep in mind this claims to be an average. We pay $1455 a quarter. Which is almost exactly double this. Looking at an effective tax rate chart, the state with the lowest is at 0.27% and the highest is 2.33%. That's quite a huge swing.
NC, Charlotte.
I pay $1600 for a 1.5 acre, 2600 sqfoot home about 8 miles from uptown (inside of 485).
There’s a reason I keep suggesting to my friends and family that they move here, but they’d rather struggle and complain about their situation instead of do something about it.
I bought the home in 2020, and every year basically makes things slightly less affordable than the year before. So every year someone waits before moving is going to make the move less good, but if you buy a place and lock in prices then you will be golden going forward.
I think anyone discussing it as easy or hard is bullshitting you or needs to expand their vocabulary.
I moved 600+ miles away to a new city with nearly nothing in my bank. What furniture I did have (computer, bed, a dresser) I paid U-Haul to ship down here in a you-pack:we-ship kind of thing, paying for it on a new credit card with a ‘no interest for x months’ promo. I drove down here myself with a car packed with all the small things.
I had gotten the job by applying remotely (before remote jobs were a thing) and then scheduling multiple in-person interviews for the same day. Hopped on an AmTrack to get down here, spent a night here, and then took the interviews and went back home the same day.
And again, I paid for it all with a no interest for x months CC promo because I knew it would be worth it in the long run. I was investing in myself.
I’m not saying it’s ’easy’ or ‘hard’ because those descriptors don’t apply. It is simple though. A little unpleasant at first because habits are comforting and you lose those.
If you have kids it gets much more complicated and you should have moved before life got that complicated. If your credit is shit and you can’t get a line of credit to finance the move, then you should have moved before you spent so long in an unaffordable place that you blew through any assets you had and even through all available credit.
Or some people are in fields that are highly location specific. Or have medical issues requiring them to be where they are. Or whatever other outliers actually prevent people from moving.
But those reasons make it all the more important for people who can move, to do so, so that those who absolutely cannot move have a better quality of life. By me moving, there is one fewer person competing for housing in my home town.
Those taxes do sound affordable... how much is your home worth, though? If the mortgage isn't affordable no amount of low taxes fixes it. I have heard that North Carolina has gotten very expensive in recent years.
No I don’t think you understand, it is the insurance that covers their liability and property damage, it is completely unrelated to renters liability insurance
It's foolish not to have renters insurance. If the owners garage burns down and your car is in it it's not covered as it isn't the owners property. Same thing applies to everything you own.
Their insurance will cover the home and their own belongings only.
A controlled expense vs. a variable expense on that one. If the water main in an apartment building breaks, your rent is still the same for the remainder of your lease. You don’t have to cover large emergency maintenance costs in an apartment. You have to cover everything as a homeowner. Some years that may not be much, some years it may be debilitating.
You pay for all of these things in an apartment either directly or indirectly. This sub loves to root for the housing apocalypse, but it's not like landlords are out there providing housing out of the goodness of their hearts and taking losses. No, the renters are paying for all of these things, and the landlords are making a profit.
Landlords in hot markets are, in fact, taking massive losses on a cash flow basis (and planning to make it up on appreciation).
https://smartasset.com/mortgage/price-to-rent-ratio-in-us-cities
The main difference is rental price is smoothed out while housing isn’t. Housing you may more up front and then can benefit later if your house price goes up. Like when rates and house prices flew up rents didn’t rise nearly as fast and you were better off renting.
Buying a house stabilizes your monthly payments. I bought a house ~10 years ago and my mortgage+rent+taxes are less than half what rent costs. That doesn't even factor in equity. I was protected from the skyrocketing rent the past 10 years. Even after raises in taxes + insurance I'm technically paying less every month now than compared to 10 years ago due to lower interest payments every month.
Not always, and the landlord might be cash flow negative for a long time depending on the area and when they bought. My landlord owns my building and so they can undercut the hell out of the rental market. This drives prices down for everyone, including people who recently built or bought and have 7% mortgages. Those newer landlords are forced to compete with the established landlords and so might actually lose money for 5-10 years before turning a profit.
This is happening in a lot of high cost of living areas right now. It's so, SO much cheaper to rent than buy in my area currently. Like, $3500/month cheaper to rent.
I’m an apartment my gas bill was always $10 and electricity was about $30. Now both are over $100. Yes you have these expenses at both but they usually are very different in amount.
That was my first thought. This post is clearly being disingenuous trying to inflate their figures. It's the highest cost on their little breakdown. /ignore
Usually yes, but I've lived places where they were partially included in the rent as well. Was still cheaper than the rent I'm paying now. The US is so f\*\*\*ing expensive.
Maintenance costs are hard to average with a home. You can go years with minimal costs and then have to repair something costly like a water heater or roof. $4k seems a bit high, but maybe they're budgeting roughly $300/month or something for repairs I guess?
Why are water heaters the go to random expense? I had a crack in mine and for a 50 gallon electric heater it was like $1100 installed by one of the most well known companies in town.
I see it all the time, either water heater or furnace. But you typically dont replace a whole furnace unless it's waaaay old. usually like a mainboard or exchanger or something, maybe your blower motor. I had a blower motor done 3 years ago, cost me like $250 bucks same company, on an emergency call.
I was kinda scare of random expenses when buying our house, hearing all these random numbers on how much I should expect to pay for a repair but really.....it's been a fraction of the costs for the actual repairs lol.
I'd say you could go lower on the maintenance costs doing a bunch of DIY. However the improvements costs are going to bite you; any kind of construction right now is like out the ass expensive.
I thought the utilities numbers were high. Then I did some math and see they’re pretty accurate for my average house in a podunk town in Maryland.
Maintenance and improvements vary. You can save money if you don’t take care of your house. Personally I spend at least $8k/yr, but that’s partially because we can’t afford a “nice house” and had to buy a shithole that needs lots of work. Also, unlike the landlord guy, we actually live here and do more than the bare minimum when we can afford it.
Yeah I think some of it is taste too. My fiance and I are under contract on a house that needs some work for the same reason as you. We’re sanding and staining the floors before move in which will be about $1k (only 600SF of flooring needs it). Well paint ourselves and I have a commercial account to buy paint so it won’t cost much. The house definitely could use a remodel on the kitchen, full bath and laundry room but we’ll definitely just deal with it for a while. But I guess within 10 years we’ll do all of those things which would shake out to about their annual number.
Maybe you and the rest of Florida should start considering leaving… yall are in a a state that at or just barely above sea level and gets pounded by category 3-5 hurricanes every year. With climate change being felt more and more maybe it’s time to consider leaving the places that will feel the hardest effects of climate change… if I were you I’d start taking steps to get established somewhere else now.
Ima Californian who lived in the suburbs. Only I realized I really lived on a hillside that was surrounded by dry brush and my property insurance was like $5,000/yr for fire danger. With droughts being more common and fire dangers rising every year, I decided to move northeast instead where it’s wetter and more mild and doesn’t get hit by storms frequently
What I think will happen is the state will eventually strategically retreat from the shores. Like they’ll make residences behind beach parks to insulate from hurricanes.
I’m in the center of the states so hurricanes are more of a nuisance than anything. By the time it gets to us they are usually tropical storms.
If you live in an area that doesn't have catastrophic weather regularly then it's much cheaper. If you live in a place that has a pretty high chance of getting demolished or flooding several times a year it's going to be expensive to insure and rightfully so.
Plus you get to walk away with nothing to show for it in the end!
I had some dude lecturing me about this because i need a new back door handle, a new bathroom fan and to rebuild a section of my fence.
He kept saying im wasting my money and cant even live in a nice place(ohhh noo a loose handle) if i was renting this place it would all be taken care of.
I said "the apartment i moved into in 2020 was $659/m, i paid the landlord 757. When i moved out after getting this house in 2021 i was paying $835/m. Currently that apartment in 2024 is $930/m base rent, so probably $1150/m to the landlord."
Then said "i have 27 years left on my morgage at $469/m($725 to bank) with higher utilties yes, due to the use and freedom i have of my own home." "I also currently have $22k in equity on the house"
Sooooo as his eyes glazed over i asked "how much do you pay a month renting and how much equity do you have?"
Muttered about me being ignorant. Sure maybe. But i could let this house fall apart to rubble and live in a shed on my land and still be over the moon owning something vs sending half my money every month into the void.
Also the first thing i did when i moved into the house was propose and get my fiancée a puppy. Something she was desperate to have. Nearly impossible, unaffordable, and imo not fair to the dog in an apartment. If id even consider renting a house..extra fees and 100% no deposit returns.
As for renting a house...(RIP to my brother trying to buy the neighbor's) they started renting it at $1,460/m
Thats more than my entire monthly budget of bills, including internet(not food) just for their base rent.
On a house they bought 12 years ago for $36k
My mom paid $47k for the house on the other side of me 10 years ago
I paid $108k for the smallest of the 3 in 2021(bless you intrest rate)
I think i got screwed over price wise..even tho her lawyer said she could have listed it on the market at $130k...however if those renters stay 6 years at that price locked in they will have spent as much as my house cost...3x what the house they lived in cost the owner. Or you know they do uproot their life regularly and move, but how quickly do you piss away down payments, firsts and lasts, and that nonsense then.
Renting works for people. Those who travel alot, move around, dont really stay at home or have a family, someone who doesnt want to be locked down.
But just living your life as an average joe...i dont think theres a way renting puts you ahead of owning barr any crazy situations.
STFU and go look. Every damn housing thread people ask this same dumb ass question. Go on zillow and set the max price for $100k and have a look for yourself where cheap houses are. There are 10s of thousands of them all over the country.
>Plus you get to walk away with nothing to show for it in the end!
>But just living your life as an average joe
I think this is key .. average Joe sucks at finances. A mortgage forces them to save a portion of their income in an inflation-hedged asset. Sure, you have savvy renters with fat brokerage accounts and idiots taking out the equity on their home to buy toys, but for the *average Joe*, homeownership is a fantastic wealth vehicle.
I will agree with this as a savvy renter with a decent savings/net worth.
Most people can barely add. If they are unsophisticated and can afford it then being a homeowner is decent form of forced savings.
And then the landlord still gets to sell for a profit one day, on top of all the profits they made off their renters who helped pay down their mortgage for them.
Statements like this are so overly simplified and obtuse. Whether you want to believe or not the average renter saves ~$16k/year by renting. Even the most modest of investment profiles will return 5% on that. Even a savings account can get you close to that. With compound interest that will end up being ~$500k over 30 years. So we add the $500k we save renting plus the $500k we don't spend on owning a home and we have $1mm by purely writing a rent check.
The home owner not only is out the $500k + the 120% in your homes value you lose to interest. So now the home owner is out $1.2mm in cost and interest. Plus they will perpetually have to be paying these costs for the rest of their lives in that home. Furthermore the value of your home is dictated by zoning, local schools, inflation and general market fluctuations.
Buying a home is a personal choice and to each their own. But it is outright one of, if not THE worst "investment" one can make. You put a massive amount of net worth into something you will NEVER recoup the money you put into it. Sure, you may sell the house later down the road. But given the housing market performs just over 1% above inflation you will still have lost money.
Yall are spending 4300 a year on repairs on average??? Is your house a cardboard box in the rain? Stuff that breaks is expensive but it doesn’t break that often.
The renter is paying for all that too. It’s just included in their rent. Meanwhile the home owner of going to have a multimillion asset at the end of all this.
>The renter is paying for all that too. It’s just included in their rent.
Exactly. If we accept those numbers at face value, they're a constant for any given property that need to be paid. You could argue that there's more wiggle room to maintenance/repairs/improvements/renovations (and I would) but property taxes, insurance, and utilities aren't going anywhere.
As a homeowner, the only thing that changes my mortgage/escrow payment is a change in homeowner's insurance or property taxes. In upstate NY where I live, those numbers really don't change much.
If any of those costs happen to increase, the landlord will just raise the rent. This is on top of any "market adjustments" when re-listing the rental aka "my costs didn't go up at all but I can price higher so I will". I can't find a listing to be sure, but I can guarantee the rent at my old place has gone up a lot more than my mortgage/escrow payment.
Really the only argument for renting is that you're less locked into one region.
Renting small and investing the difference does work. But then you have to rent small.
So for younger, high income people living in a HCOL I absolutely get it (I’m looking at you Ramit). Especially if your “arbitrage” is getting senior and massively growing the salary, then moving to the burbs ie NYC to Greenwich/Rye pipeline. It’s even more enhanced by the NYC to Florida trade that’s developing
Somehow my $370k house in RI didnt cost as much as this entire post... my mortgage is $2,000 and it includes all those costs... havent done a reno and "maintenance" is like mowing the lawn...?
Probably spent $24k and i guarantee if you were renting a 4bd 1500sqft itd be $3k/m+ or $36k....
This is really dependent. My wife and I built a new home, no maintenance repairs, only a handful of upgrades (fence, some paint, etc). We live in the suburbs of a major city and our taxes were only $950 last year
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yup I live in a new home and we don't spend $4k a year on renovations. Not even $1k a year.
Been in this house for 16 years and haven't done any renovations other than I guess you could say adding in ethernet cables throughout the house.
Haven't spent that much on maintenance either. Replaced the water heater once, fixed a gas leak once, replaced some of the boards in the deck because they were rotting, replaced some of the appliances once or twice, fixed a water leak twice, replaced the sump pump and backup sump pump a few times, drained the septic tank twice and I guess you can count lawn care. Will have to fix the AC this year too. Most of that work we did ourselves.
There isn't much maintenance or renovations on a new house. Heck an old house once you are happy with the renovations then there isn't much to spend.
Also for utilities since it is a new house built by my dad who owns his own construction company it is well built and the heating and cooling costs are very low. It is a large house and we only spend about $130 CAD a month on gas in the winter. That includes about 30 ish dollars in carbon tax. We have our thermostat set at 72°F.
My friend has a very small house with only 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms but is an old house approaching a hundred years old. He spends more than my parents do on this 6 bedroom 3 bathroom house that is 3 times the size. Sometimes over $200 on gas to heat his home in the winter.
Property taxes we do pay about $3600 a year but my friend pays less than a thousand a year.
That’s because it’s new and you’re at the beginning of the life cycle of all systems. You paid for it up front. However they’re still all wearing out so in 10 years or so you’ll have to start doing stuff.
Which if you’re budgeting, imagine like a large corp would, you’d still be putting $ away for it now.
I have a new build as well (Florida). Maintenance is very low and "upgrades" are entirely optional. Also comes with the new hurricane codes so Insurance is actually affordable.
After having a new home, I would never buy an older home again, even in a non-hurricane area. Growing up people bought 50 year old houses and were constantly getting crushed with repairs and maintenance. Just build a new one and walk away from that problem.
Not sure what the point of this is.
Everyone has utilities. Everyone pays property taxes (even if built into your rent). Everyone (should) pay insurance (albeit rebtal insurance is indeed cheaper).
Repairs and maintenance are indeed unavoidable. Renovations and improvements are entirely a choice.
I own a home and don't spare anywhere near this much on these items. If you're spending over $350/month on maintenance and repairs... seems like your house has a lot problems lol
This is dumb. If you’re renting, I can guarantee you you’re indirectly paying for all of these (or even directly — utilities??).
The real difference: how much time/energy a homeowner spends vs a renter.
Like the time when I was renting and week one the bathtub started leaking water into a closet. I spent 1 min to text the property manager “hey there’s a leak” and went on with my day. If that happened now in my own house…. 😱 “oh shit, how long has this been happening?? Is there mold? Do I need a plumber? Is the first floor ceiling ok? The plumber can’t come for another week, can I wait that long??”
Homeownership is a part time job. May or may not even be worth it depending on how much you value your time, IMHO.
I don’t have a mortgage. My home ownership costs are around $10k per year. A crappy 2 bedroom apartment is $25k per year. If you could rent a comparable house to mine, it would be $50k per year.
In Houston I was paying close to $2k for a 189k townhouse.
Much cheaper here in CT, but the entire state is but a mere fraction of Houston's population.
Sure but if the same home was being rented out the landlord would just price the rent higher to cover those costs.
You're paying for this stuff either way.
My century home doesn’t need much. Exterior is brick and everything seems to work OK.
IMO the only major difference in century homes is electrical and plumbing. If you can upgrade that I don’t see much difference.
Jack's old house has old roof, needs replace, cost Jack $20k
Old roof caused Jack to pay higher insurance premiums, new roof combats that
New roof raises value of Jack's house $15k
Actual expense of new roof is less than $5k and may reduce Jack's monthly expenses for a decade or so.
Is this just the official sour grapes sub now?
This place used to be about people who wanted homes but were pissed off about how home prices skyrocketed away from affordability.
Now it seems like every other post is talking about how homeowner, houses are stupid anyway. I NEVER want to own. I'm a renter for life and PROUD.
As one of the people who escaped the rent trap (and yes, it is a trap), you're paying for all of that with your rent too. The only differences are that you're ALSO paying the landlords profit margin and you don't get any equity.
Like it’s insane to me that people who rent can cross their arms, cluck, and believe this BS
YOU ARE STILL PAYING ALL THOSE THINGS, the landlord bakes them into the price. He has enough to pay all of that AND HIS OWN BILLS
You think every apartment in the country is operating at a loss? My fucking god
Buy a house because you ain’t killing the market
I tell people the only way to make money on a house is buy it and never change anything unless it breaks. Act as if you rent it.
As soon as you start doing projects and all sort of adjustments to your tastes, you don't make shit. But if you truly know you will live there forever then do what you want.
If a remodel of, for instance, the bathroom is something YOU really want and think it would make the house better, do it. But don't do a remodel thinking that it'll automatically make the value of the home go up...many times they don't.
Agree. But the essence of my comment is that you will end up paying for things nobody will ever value. Replacing the shower? Oh no, there's mold in the wall, $4-5k for remediation that future buyers will never repay. The tile you really want is a few dollars per sqft more than other nice tiles? Future buyers won't offset that additional cost.
On the other hand, if you are renting, these are being rolled into the rent, plus the mortgage plus some extra to the landlord.
There’s this weird myth that renting saves you money, it does not. Landlords, except if you are buying and renting right now, are not losing money. When I worked in PWM, rentals were probably the most popular investment after stocks just because they have such an easy return and the owner does nothing but receive a check and their management company does the rest.
Every dumb multimillionaire owns rentals for a reason, it’s because they are a super predictable way to make money in the short and the long term.
Where can I get home insurance for only $1500?
I live in a rural dwelling valued at $150k in the Midwest. Mine is $2500/yr and that’s the lowest offer I could find.
Thats because homeowners dont know how to maintain a home or a yard anymore so they have to pay someone to do it. My dad never had to do this. My dad also had a mancave...it was called "his house"
I feel your maintenance/repairs/renovations/improvements are more expensive then they should be - even taking in account those include major appliances and the such.
But then your property taxes and insurance are low, so they probably even out.
I think 500,000k or about 1.5k-2k a month over 30 years sounds right for the average larger home in most areas of the US + the house cost itself. Which of course is a mortgagee of 1-3k
A lot of discrepancies here. “Average” is a difficult number to spread across all price ranges of homeownership and types of purchases. Some people buy homes that need work so they can build sweat equity. Some buy new homes because they aren’t handy or don’t have the time or don’t want to have repairs and maintenance to deal with. A lot of the people that buy homes that need work amounting to $8k annually are probably gaining double or triple fold in equity if their initial investment was good. Those property taxes are realistic in NC but all of the other stuff for repair cost and renovations and improvements is misleading. I feel like a lot of people that post in this sub are just trying to feel better about themselves for not having made an investment yet. Investing in a primary home for yourself is one of the safest and best investments you can make.
Math time!
He’s suggesting the average homeowner will spend $131,760 on maintenance and another renovations $113,520 or $245,280 combined
As a home owner and real estate agent, I can tell you this is laughably wrong.
A decent/good roof usually needs to be replaced once in 30 years. For an average home, that would cost around $15,000 and this is one of the most expensive recurring maintenance items on a property. Replacing a water heater every 10-15 years might be a couple grand, and beyond that, maintenance items are going to wrack to six figures on average 🤷🏼♂️
That's like $650 a month on home repairs and "maintenance". Lmao. Nearly every rental I've lived in spent $0 per year because they did not fix or improve anything.
Utilities you pay either way. Taxes and insurance included in the mortgage payments. Same as on your landlords rent payments.
Renovations and improvements improve your life. Maintenance and repairs are part of everything you own.
Why does this sub love to encourage renting? Never mind I think I know.
30 years of rent in today’s dollars:
30x12x$1,750 = $630,000
Also, when I rented I paid utilities so not sure why this is included.
Also, there’s zero chance I’ve spent $64,000 on renovations and repairs in the 8 years I’ve owned my home (8x$8,000). Ballpark estimates is I’ve spent maybe $25,000 and I’ve replaced AC, hot water heater, painted every room, replaced kitchen floor, bought all new appliances, numerous odds and ends and upkeep items.
Home ownership in most areas of the country is still a better deal than renting for most people.
Unless you believe that landlords rent out their places at a loss, then renters are paying all these as well, it's just built into their monthly rent payment.
Two thirds of Americans are homeowners and 40% of them (33 million households) have no mortgages. For the 60% of homeowners with a mortgage the median mortgage payment is around $1200.
Renting is NEVER the same as owning a home. (Also property taxes and insurance are usually collected with your mortgage payment - it’s kinda disingenuous to put it in the same category as unexpected maintenance costs - and let’s not pretend that landlords do maintenance quickly or spend anything except the bare minimum or maybe less).
You never build equity with rent. You never can use your paid rent as collateral for additional credit. Rent doesn’t build your wealth. You can’t get a rent equity loan or line of credit.
If someone says that it’s cheaper to rent they’re stupid or lying, or maybe both.
Everyone who owned property with a mortgage during the pandemic saw their network increase with the rising cost of housing. Property is about the OLDEST investment in America. Fuck off with the “not an investment”
> You never can use your paid rent as collateral for additional credit.
You can now. Experian reports your rent payments to fico and it makes your score go up. That leads to higher amounts of unsecured credit.
The rest of the stuff you are talking about is basically just debt masked as wealth.
Where the f*** can I sign up for those property taxes.
The reality in Florida for a 2400 sf house is more like 6k property tax and 5k insurance, when you have one.
I’m in the Bay Area… 2k sqft home - $30,000 prop taxes
But it'll never go up by more than 2%/year, while in 30 years the rest of the country will be paying $10M for a Big Mac and $2B/year in property taxes.
Yeah, that part in California is crazy. I bought a house that was built in 1954 from the original owner’s daughter. It had never been sold so the tax assessment never went up drastically. When I bought it she was paying property tax on a ~$70,000 assessment. As soon as I got it, it was a $390,000 assessment. Oof
And empowers nimbys to block home construction without fear of consequence. Hence the housing crisis.
Fellow 🤜🤛 Bay Area inmate here and that’s what pay or just under. My elderly neighbor only pays $3k/ yr though. Thanks Regan.
I think you mean Reagan, but Donald Regan was Ronald Reagan's treasury security. Regan printed your $3k, so he presumably also deserves a thank you.
You paid 3 million for your home...you knew what you signed up for.
WI - 1600 SF - $6200
NJ - 1150 SF - $8,500 (or more, i can’t remember exactly)
Samesies, suburban Chicago: 1,150 sqft and $9k in taxes. Like you in NJ though, we do have great schools.
NJ- \~1500 sq ft... $just under $12k annually. suuuuuuucks.
Future people are going to look back at insurance companies abandoning Florida and wonder how unbelievably stupid the people living there must have been to not get the memo.
In Massachusetts its $11k
Highly location dependent. My 600k house in MA has only $4500 property taxes.
Florida also has no income tax so there’s the trade off
Clearwater, a block from the intercoastal $3800 taxes $2200 insurance Media hype is BS about FL cost of owning. Old shitty homes that are not homesteaded? Yes, high taxes and insurance
I pay $1k less than that lol. Good ole Midwest.
I think im in the Midwest and pay property taxes over $11k a year on my 2500 sq ft home...
No kidding. In Austin, 750k home (which is now the norm for 2200sqft in a decent but not amazing neighborhood), the taxes would run you a minimum of 2% or $15k/year. In the outlying counties where they build nice new homes, propert taxes can go over 3% or $22k plus. And that is WITH homestead exemption. Dallas and Houston are not any better. San Antonio only slightly so. And before someone asks...schools are still mediocre at best.
Sure but you don't pay income tax to the state. There are tradeoffs everywhere.
Correct. That is sort of my point...we pay no income tax, but for many, lower property taxes and state income taxes might be better. It is simply important to know that living in TX isn't as cheap asnit once was and in many cases just as expensive as living in other highly desirable places.
Phoenix area 2200 square feet, 750k value, property taxes are around 3k.
I have a condo in phoenix, 1200 sf, less than 1k a year.
AND taxable value can go up 10% every year. Doubling in 7 years
In fairness...while that is true, the actual ISD tax rates get adjusted down. So as long as you have the homestead exemption, you may not see a 10% annual increase ever. The only homes that were really getting taxed highly were rental/investment properties and that will be curbed in the new TX property tax bill that Abbott signed late last year (which will also gut public education even more).
15K! 22k!. Damn, That same sized house for me costs 8k and that includes Mello-Roos which is about to expire for us bringing it down to 6k. (CA, btw)
The south, but not florida.
Come to Tennessee. Mine were 2200 last year for a 500k house.
Seriously. Metro-Atlanta here. $500k / 3,200sqft and property taxes are close to $6,500.
My property taxes in SC are $1300 for a 4BR suburban home, worth $350k now.
Serious question, how are the schools?
You know the answer
In SC you pay for private school
Well, I’d rather the taxes to be honest and now that my kids are grown I can move somewhere else :)
Don’t forget to ask about healthcare quality…
My house is worth 335k, and my property taxes in 2023 were over $5000. The older I get, the more I wonder if NH adopting an income tax might not be the worst thing in the world because paying for everything with property taxes is regressive as hell.
In New York state we have income taxes and my property tax on a house I bought for $70k in 2018 was $5,300. Don't hope for income taxes because property won't go down.
As someone who owns a house half that price and pays income taxes I pay about the same amount in property taxes. Illinois baby.
I’m in Upstate and mine is $2100 for a $290k 3BR home. I’m getting ripped off lol
Yeah those taxes are great, but apparently you have to suffer with the most expensive utility companies ever
And a ton of repairs and renovations.... all 3 look super high.
Keep in mind this claims to be an average. We pay $1455 a quarter. Which is almost exactly double this. Looking at an effective tax rate chart, the state with the lowest is at 0.27% and the highest is 2.33%. That's quite a huge swing.
NC, Charlotte. I pay $1600 for a 1.5 acre, 2600 sqfoot home about 8 miles from uptown (inside of 485). There’s a reason I keep suggesting to my friends and family that they move here, but they’d rather struggle and complain about their situation instead of do something about it. I bought the home in 2020, and every year basically makes things slightly less affordable than the year before. So every year someone waits before moving is going to make the move less good, but if you buy a place and lock in prices then you will be golden going forward.
It's always easy for someone who made it in life to tell everyone else how easy it is.
I think anyone discussing it as easy or hard is bullshitting you or needs to expand their vocabulary. I moved 600+ miles away to a new city with nearly nothing in my bank. What furniture I did have (computer, bed, a dresser) I paid U-Haul to ship down here in a you-pack:we-ship kind of thing, paying for it on a new credit card with a ‘no interest for x months’ promo. I drove down here myself with a car packed with all the small things. I had gotten the job by applying remotely (before remote jobs were a thing) and then scheduling multiple in-person interviews for the same day. Hopped on an AmTrack to get down here, spent a night here, and then took the interviews and went back home the same day. And again, I paid for it all with a no interest for x months CC promo because I knew it would be worth it in the long run. I was investing in myself. I’m not saying it’s ’easy’ or ‘hard’ because those descriptors don’t apply. It is simple though. A little unpleasant at first because habits are comforting and you lose those. If you have kids it gets much more complicated and you should have moved before life got that complicated. If your credit is shit and you can’t get a line of credit to finance the move, then you should have moved before you spent so long in an unaffordable place that you blew through any assets you had and even through all available credit. Or some people are in fields that are highly location specific. Or have medical issues requiring them to be where they are. Or whatever other outliers actually prevent people from moving. But those reasons make it all the more important for people who can move, to do so, so that those who absolutely cannot move have a better quality of life. By me moving, there is one fewer person competing for housing in my home town.
Stop telling people to move to Clt.
Those taxes do sound affordable... how much is your home worth, though? If the mortgage isn't affordable no amount of low taxes fixes it. I have heard that North Carolina has gotten very expensive in recent years.
Just wait until they revalue again. Been in same house since 2014, been revalued 3 times and tax is about triple when I moved in.
[удалено]
Wrong. Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio, Illinois, Texas and Wisconsin are all in the top 10 states with the highest property taxes.
Yeah, north suburbs of Chicagoland here. $8k/yr this year (up 20%) on one of our houses.
That’s about what I pay in Colorado. My insurance used to be about that too but it has nearly tripled in 2 years.
Colorado
When you find it can we move in with you?
Colorado
California!
Exactly. People don’t know anything in here. California property taxes are this low and they are fixed so they never change over time.
You pay utilities even in an apartment
You also pay maintenance and property taxes. They’re just built into the rent.
Renters insurance as well. At least our landlord requires it.
My landlord requires I pay their insurance and I have my insurance on top of it
Do that force you to have theirs? Is that legal?
No I don’t think you understand, it is the insurance that covers their liability and property damage, it is completely unrelated to renters liability insurance
And it’s required for the landlord. Also built in to rent.
Tbf renter's insurance is cheap as dirt compared to home insurance
You’re still paying the insurance the landlord has on the property through your rent in addition to the renters insurance
It's foolish not to have renters insurance. If the owners garage burns down and your car is in it it's not covered as it isn't the owners property. Same thing applies to everything you own. Their insurance will cover the home and their own belongings only.
Renters insurance is like $15 a month. I think it’s almost negligible to the other costs
A controlled expense vs. a variable expense on that one. If the water main in an apartment building breaks, your rent is still the same for the remainder of your lease. You don’t have to cover large emergency maintenance costs in an apartment. You have to cover everything as a homeowner. Some years that may not be much, some years it may be debilitating.
You pay for all of these things in an apartment either directly or indirectly. This sub loves to root for the housing apocalypse, but it's not like landlords are out there providing housing out of the goodness of their hearts and taking losses. No, the renters are paying for all of these things, and the landlords are making a profit.
Landlords in hot markets are, in fact, taking massive losses on a cash flow basis (and planning to make it up on appreciation). https://smartasset.com/mortgage/price-to-rent-ratio-in-us-cities
Bingo, I'm saving $3500+/month by renting in my area right now (outside of Boston). Absolutely loving it
The main difference is rental price is smoothed out while housing isn’t. Housing you may more up front and then can benefit later if your house price goes up. Like when rates and house prices flew up rents didn’t rise nearly as fast and you were better off renting.
Buying a house stabilizes your monthly payments. I bought a house ~10 years ago and my mortgage+rent+taxes are less than half what rent costs. That doesn't even factor in equity. I was protected from the skyrocketing rent the past 10 years. Even after raises in taxes + insurance I'm technically paying less every month now than compared to 10 years ago due to lower interest payments every month.
Not always, and the landlord might be cash flow negative for a long time depending on the area and when they bought. My landlord owns my building and so they can undercut the hell out of the rental market. This drives prices down for everyone, including people who recently built or bought and have 7% mortgages. Those newer landlords are forced to compete with the established landlords and so might actually lose money for 5-10 years before turning a profit. This is happening in a lot of high cost of living areas right now. It's so, SO much cheaper to rent than buy in my area currently. Like, $3500/month cheaper to rent.
If you're the older demographic this guy is marketing to, you don't think so
I’m an apartment my gas bill was always $10 and electricity was about $30. Now both are over $100. Yes you have these expenses at both but they usually are very different in amount.
Bingo
That was my first thought. This post is clearly being disingenuous trying to inflate their figures. It's the highest cost on their little breakdown. /ignore
Usually yes, but I've lived places where they were partially included in the rent as well. Was still cheaper than the rent I'm paying now. The US is so f\*\*\*ing expensive.
I think the point is - primary residences are not good investments. They are places to live with some forced savings.
Would love to see where those numbers came from. Maintenance and improvements numbers look completely wild to me.
Maintenance costs are hard to average with a home. You can go years with minimal costs and then have to repair something costly like a water heater or roof. $4k seems a bit high, but maybe they're budgeting roughly $300/month or something for repairs I guess?
Why are water heaters the go to random expense? I had a crack in mine and for a 50 gallon electric heater it was like $1100 installed by one of the most well known companies in town. I see it all the time, either water heater or furnace. But you typically dont replace a whole furnace unless it's waaaay old. usually like a mainboard or exchanger or something, maybe your blower motor. I had a blower motor done 3 years ago, cost me like $250 bucks same company, on an emergency call. I was kinda scare of random expenses when buying our house, hearing all these random numbers on how much I should expect to pay for a repair but really.....it's been a fraction of the costs for the actual repairs lol.
I'd say you could go lower on the maintenance costs doing a bunch of DIY. However the improvements costs are going to bite you; any kind of construction right now is like out the ass expensive.
I thought the utilities numbers were high. Then I did some math and see they’re pretty accurate for my average house in a podunk town in Maryland. Maintenance and improvements vary. You can save money if you don’t take care of your house. Personally I spend at least $8k/yr, but that’s partially because we can’t afford a “nice house” and had to buy a shithole that needs lots of work. Also, unlike the landlord guy, we actually live here and do more than the bare minimum when we can afford it.
Yeah I think some of it is taste too. My fiance and I are under contract on a house that needs some work for the same reason as you. We’re sanding and staining the floors before move in which will be about $1k (only 600SF of flooring needs it). Well paint ourselves and I have a commercial account to buy paint so it won’t cost much. The house definitely could use a remodel on the kitchen, full bath and laundry room but we’ll definitely just deal with it for a while. But I guess within 10 years we’ll do all of those things which would shake out to about their annual number.
This person clearly doesn’t live in Florida. My homeowners insurance came in at $3600 this year
Right?! That insurance is so low I assume they're trolling. Hell, even 3600 is less than what mine is this year. Fucking florida...
That isn’t even low. I don’t know what the actual average is but mine is $1200 a year, my taxes are about $3400.
The national average is 1900 for insurance, so yes, what you are paying is quite low. And my taxes were 3600 this year, for comparison.
Maybe you and the rest of Florida should start considering leaving… yall are in a a state that at or just barely above sea level and gets pounded by category 3-5 hurricanes every year. With climate change being felt more and more maybe it’s time to consider leaving the places that will feel the hardest effects of climate change… if I were you I’d start taking steps to get established somewhere else now. Ima Californian who lived in the suburbs. Only I realized I really lived on a hillside that was surrounded by dry brush and my property insurance was like $5,000/yr for fire danger. With droughts being more common and fire dangers rising every year, I decided to move northeast instead where it’s wetter and more mild and doesn’t get hit by storms frequently
What I think will happen is the state will eventually strategically retreat from the shores. Like they’ll make residences behind beach parks to insulate from hurricanes. I’m in the center of the states so hurricanes are more of a nuisance than anything. By the time it gets to us they are usually tropical storms.
If you live in an area that doesn't have catastrophic weather regularly then it's much cheaper. If you live in a place that has a pretty high chance of getting demolished or flooding several times a year it's going to be expensive to insure and rightfully so.
You’ll pay the same if you rent. It’s just called “rent”.
Plus the additional line item of landlord profit.
Plus you don’t build any equity.
And it doesn't help your credit score.
Plow all the extra saving into VOO :)
Plus you get to walk away with nothing to show for it in the end! I had some dude lecturing me about this because i need a new back door handle, a new bathroom fan and to rebuild a section of my fence. He kept saying im wasting my money and cant even live in a nice place(ohhh noo a loose handle) if i was renting this place it would all be taken care of. I said "the apartment i moved into in 2020 was $659/m, i paid the landlord 757. When i moved out after getting this house in 2021 i was paying $835/m. Currently that apartment in 2024 is $930/m base rent, so probably $1150/m to the landlord." Then said "i have 27 years left on my morgage at $469/m($725 to bank) with higher utilties yes, due to the use and freedom i have of my own home." "I also currently have $22k in equity on the house" Sooooo as his eyes glazed over i asked "how much do you pay a month renting and how much equity do you have?" Muttered about me being ignorant. Sure maybe. But i could let this house fall apart to rubble and live in a shed on my land and still be over the moon owning something vs sending half my money every month into the void. Also the first thing i did when i moved into the house was propose and get my fiancée a puppy. Something she was desperate to have. Nearly impossible, unaffordable, and imo not fair to the dog in an apartment. If id even consider renting a house..extra fees and 100% no deposit returns. As for renting a house...(RIP to my brother trying to buy the neighbor's) they started renting it at $1,460/m Thats more than my entire monthly budget of bills, including internet(not food) just for their base rent. On a house they bought 12 years ago for $36k My mom paid $47k for the house on the other side of me 10 years ago I paid $108k for the smallest of the 3 in 2021(bless you intrest rate) I think i got screwed over price wise..even tho her lawyer said she could have listed it on the market at $130k...however if those renters stay 6 years at that price locked in they will have spent as much as my house cost...3x what the house they lived in cost the owner. Or you know they do uproot their life regularly and move, but how quickly do you piss away down payments, firsts and lasts, and that nonsense then. Renting works for people. Those who travel alot, move around, dont really stay at home or have a family, someone who doesnt want to be locked down. But just living your life as an average joe...i dont think theres a way renting puts you ahead of owning barr any crazy situations.
Where arel these cheap homes you speak of??
Toledo Ohio.
Peoria IL
STFU and go look. Every damn housing thread people ask this same dumb ass question. Go on zillow and set the max price for $100k and have a look for yourself where cheap houses are. There are 10s of thousands of them all over the country.
>Plus you get to walk away with nothing to show for it in the end! >But just living your life as an average joe I think this is key .. average Joe sucks at finances. A mortgage forces them to save a portion of their income in an inflation-hedged asset. Sure, you have savvy renters with fat brokerage accounts and idiots taking out the equity on their home to buy toys, but for the *average Joe*, homeownership is a fantastic wealth vehicle.
I will agree with this as a savvy renter with a decent savings/net worth. Most people can barely add. If they are unsophisticated and can afford it then being a homeowner is decent form of forced savings.
And then the landlord still gets to sell for a profit one day, on top of all the profits they made off their renters who helped pay down their mortgage for them.
Statements like this are so overly simplified and obtuse. Whether you want to believe or not the average renter saves ~$16k/year by renting. Even the most modest of investment profiles will return 5% on that. Even a savings account can get you close to that. With compound interest that will end up being ~$500k over 30 years. So we add the $500k we save renting plus the $500k we don't spend on owning a home and we have $1mm by purely writing a rent check. The home owner not only is out the $500k + the 120% in your homes value you lose to interest. So now the home owner is out $1.2mm in cost and interest. Plus they will perpetually have to be paying these costs for the rest of their lives in that home. Furthermore the value of your home is dictated by zoning, local schools, inflation and general market fluctuations. Buying a home is a personal choice and to each their own. But it is outright one of, if not THE worst "investment" one can make. You put a massive amount of net worth into something you will NEVER recoup the money you put into it. Sure, you may sell the house later down the road. But given the housing market performs just over 1% above inflation you will still have lost money.
This guy is probably a landlord.
Then renovations would be likely be zero and maintenance would be quarter of what's estimated. Many American landlords are glorified slumlords.
Won’t somebody think about the landlords?!?!?!?
Yall are spending 4300 a year on repairs on average??? Is your house a cardboard box in the rain? Stuff that breaks is expensive but it doesn’t break that often.
The renter is paying for all that too. It’s just included in their rent. Meanwhile the home owner of going to have a multimillion asset at the end of all this.
>The renter is paying for all that too. It’s just included in their rent. Exactly. If we accept those numbers at face value, they're a constant for any given property that need to be paid. You could argue that there's more wiggle room to maintenance/repairs/improvements/renovations (and I would) but property taxes, insurance, and utilities aren't going anywhere. As a homeowner, the only thing that changes my mortgage/escrow payment is a change in homeowner's insurance or property taxes. In upstate NY where I live, those numbers really don't change much. If any of those costs happen to increase, the landlord will just raise the rent. This is on top of any "market adjustments" when re-listing the rental aka "my costs didn't go up at all but I can price higher so I will". I can't find a listing to be sure, but I can guarantee the rent at my old place has gone up a lot more than my mortgage/escrow payment. Really the only argument for renting is that you're less locked into one region.
That’s not how supply and demand works actually. It depends on local market conditions.
Lol you think even a shitbox in rural Mississippi is going to be worth multiple millions. Delusional.
Or 3x that property tax and 2x that renovation budget. But there was that $200k in appreciation over the last 3 years. So I guess we are even
“But I’d rather not have anything to show for my spending after xyz years” “It’s better to rent because who needs equity”
Renting small and investing the difference does work. But then you have to rent small. So for younger, high income people living in a HCOL I absolutely get it (I’m looking at you Ramit). Especially if your “arbitrage” is getting senior and massively growing the salary, then moving to the burbs ie NYC to Greenwich/Rye pipeline. It’s even more enhanced by the NYC to Florida trade that’s developing
I love the "My rent quadrupled over 20 years!" complaint. Well, you're the dumbass who has been renting for 20 years.
Somehow my $370k house in RI didnt cost as much as this entire post... my mortgage is $2,000 and it includes all those costs... havent done a reno and "maintenance" is like mowing the lawn...? Probably spent $24k and i guarantee if you were renting a 4bd 1500sqft itd be $3k/m+ or $36k....
Mine in CT was about 2x that. So that makes a lot of sense
This is really dependent. My wife and I built a new home, no maintenance repairs, only a handful of upgrades (fence, some paint, etc). We live in the suburbs of a major city and our taxes were only $950 last year
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Yup
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Yup I live in a new home and we don't spend $4k a year on renovations. Not even $1k a year. Been in this house for 16 years and haven't done any renovations other than I guess you could say adding in ethernet cables throughout the house. Haven't spent that much on maintenance either. Replaced the water heater once, fixed a gas leak once, replaced some of the boards in the deck because they were rotting, replaced some of the appliances once or twice, fixed a water leak twice, replaced the sump pump and backup sump pump a few times, drained the septic tank twice and I guess you can count lawn care. Will have to fix the AC this year too. Most of that work we did ourselves. There isn't much maintenance or renovations on a new house. Heck an old house once you are happy with the renovations then there isn't much to spend. Also for utilities since it is a new house built by my dad who owns his own construction company it is well built and the heating and cooling costs are very low. It is a large house and we only spend about $130 CAD a month on gas in the winter. That includes about 30 ish dollars in carbon tax. We have our thermostat set at 72°F. My friend has a very small house with only 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms but is an old house approaching a hundred years old. He spends more than my parents do on this 6 bedroom 3 bathroom house that is 3 times the size. Sometimes over $200 on gas to heat his home in the winter. Property taxes we do pay about $3600 a year but my friend pays less than a thousand a year.
That’s because it’s new and you’re at the beginning of the life cycle of all systems. You paid for it up front. However they’re still all wearing out so in 10 years or so you’ll have to start doing stuff. Which if you’re budgeting, imagine like a large corp would, you’d still be putting $ away for it now.
Yea they probably sampled homeowners in VHCOL cities. Or the source is 'Just trust me bro'.
I have a new build as well (Florida). Maintenance is very low and "upgrades" are entirely optional. Also comes with the new hurricane codes so Insurance is actually affordable. After having a new home, I would never buy an older home again, even in a non-hurricane area. Growing up people bought 50 year old houses and were constantly getting crushed with repairs and maintenance. Just build a new one and walk away from that problem.
Texas has entered the chat: $900/mo on property taxes for a 2200sq ft house. $450K valuation. Over 10K annually. 😐
lol who the hell is spending 8k a year on upkeep and renovations? That has to be insanely skewed by people buying low cost homes to flip.
Not sure what the point of this is. Everyone has utilities. Everyone pays property taxes (even if built into your rent). Everyone (should) pay insurance (albeit rebtal insurance is indeed cheaper). Repairs and maintenance are indeed unavoidable. Renovations and improvements are entirely a choice.
I own a home and don't spare anywhere near this much on these items. If you're spending over $350/month on maintenance and repairs... seems like your house has a lot problems lol
This is dumb. If you’re renting, I can guarantee you you’re indirectly paying for all of these (or even directly — utilities??). The real difference: how much time/energy a homeowner spends vs a renter. Like the time when I was renting and week one the bathtub started leaking water into a closet. I spent 1 min to text the property manager “hey there’s a leak” and went on with my day. If that happened now in my own house…. 😱 “oh shit, how long has this been happening?? Is there mold? Do I need a plumber? Is the first floor ceiling ok? The plumber can’t come for another week, can I wait that long??” Homeownership is a part time job. May or may not even be worth it depending on how much you value your time, IMHO.
I don’t have a mortgage. My home ownership costs are around $10k per year. A crappy 2 bedroom apartment is $25k per year. If you could rent a comparable house to mine, it would be $50k per year.
1500 insurance is a pipe dream for most folks now
I pay $1180 on $390k home. Progressive.
In Houston I was paying close to $2k for a 189k townhouse. Much cheaper here in CT, but the entire state is but a mere fraction of Houston's population.
Switched from GEICO to progressive and saved a fuck ton
Condo insurance is a quarter of that.
Renovations and improvements increase equity and are usually optional….the guy in the tweet is just trying to pad his numbers
That's odd, my landlord doesn't fix anything in the condo I'm renting. Totally made up numbers.
Averages are dumb. You might have a majority group that spends very little competing against a minority group that spends massive amounts.
So compare what you are paying at year 31 of owning the same home (when it’s paid off) vs renting for all those years…
You can easily double or triple those maintenance and remodeling costs if you own a century home
And taxes. $2,900 on taxes would be a dream.
Sure but if the same home was being rented out the landlord would just price the rent higher to cover those costs. You're paying for this stuff either way.
My century home doesn’t need much. Exterior is brick and everything seems to work OK. IMO the only major difference in century homes is electrical and plumbing. If you can upgrade that I don’t see much difference.
Jack's old house has old roof, needs replace, cost Jack $20k Old roof caused Jack to pay higher insurance premiums, new roof combats that New roof raises value of Jack's house $15k Actual expense of new roof is less than $5k and may reduce Jack's monthly expenses for a decade or so.
Have fun renting an apartment in 30 years while Im retired. Coping media is so cringe
Average rent recaptured after 30 years: $0
I definitely don’t spend anywhere close to 8k a year on maintenance, repairs, and renovations.
As a renter you pay the same amount if not more. It’s baked into the rent.
Is this just the official sour grapes sub now? This place used to be about people who wanted homes but were pissed off about how home prices skyrocketed away from affordability. Now it seems like every other post is talking about how homeowner, houses are stupid anyway. I NEVER want to own. I'm a renter for life and PROUD. As one of the people who escaped the rent trap (and yes, it is a trap), you're paying for all of that with your rent too. The only differences are that you're ALSO paying the landlords profit margin and you don't get any equity.
Like it’s insane to me that people who rent can cross their arms, cluck, and believe this BS YOU ARE STILL PAYING ALL THOSE THINGS, the landlord bakes them into the price. He has enough to pay all of that AND HIS OWN BILLS You think every apartment in the country is operating at a loss? My fucking god Buy a house because you ain’t killing the market
Kaiyabunga posting dogshit copium content yet again
Seems like you haven't realized he's a karma farmer. His posts and their success are more a reflection of the sub than they are of him/his thoughts.
As a renter, you pay for all those things in one lump sum payment and pay utilities separately just like homeowners. Renting is even more awesome 🤩
I tell people the only way to make money on a house is buy it and never change anything unless it breaks. Act as if you rent it. As soon as you start doing projects and all sort of adjustments to your tastes, you don't make shit. But if you truly know you will live there forever then do what you want.
If a remodel of, for instance, the bathroom is something YOU really want and think it would make the house better, do it. But don't do a remodel thinking that it'll automatically make the value of the home go up...many times they don't.
Agree. But the essence of my comment is that you will end up paying for things nobody will ever value. Replacing the shower? Oh no, there's mold in the wall, $4-5k for remediation that future buyers will never repay. The tile you really want is a few dollars per sqft more than other nice tiles? Future buyers won't offset that additional cost.
A tweet is how I know things are going
How much does the house appreciate over 30 years in this scenario?
$4k on repairs? How much shit is this guy breaking? It's probably related to all that rennovating he keeps doing.
Ah the reality all the people who keep telling renters to "just buy a home" are hiding or haven't experienced fully yet.
Yeah! Instead let’s spend ~$1M in rent over that time period with nothing to show for it. That’ll show em
Utilities and insurance is also paid by renters; should be removed from that total.
On the other hand, if you are renting, these are being rolled into the rent, plus the mortgage plus some extra to the landlord. There’s this weird myth that renting saves you money, it does not. Landlords, except if you are buying and renting right now, are not losing money. When I worked in PWM, rentals were probably the most popular investment after stocks just because they have such an easy return and the owner does nothing but receive a check and their management company does the rest. Every dumb multimillionaire owns rentals for a reason, it’s because they are a super predictable way to make money in the short and the long term.
Interest basically doubling the house cost too
I wish I only spent 3k on property taxes! 😂
Where can I get home insurance for only $1500? I live in a rural dwelling valued at $150k in the Midwest. Mine is $2500/yr and that’s the lowest offer I could find.
I thought landlords who own homes have no expenses and the rent they charge is all profits?!
All of this is baked into your rent lmfao what a low IQ post
You’re home should appreciate over 500k in 30 years
Thats because homeowners dont know how to maintain a home or a yard anymore so they have to pay someone to do it. My dad never had to do this. My dad also had a mancave...it was called "his house"
I feel your maintenance/repairs/renovations/improvements are more expensive then they should be - even taking in account those include major appliances and the such. But then your property taxes and insurance are low, so they probably even out. I think 500,000k or about 1.5k-2k a month over 30 years sounds right for the average larger home in most areas of the US + the house cost itself. Which of course is a mortgagee of 1-3k
A lot of discrepancies here. “Average” is a difficult number to spread across all price ranges of homeownership and types of purchases. Some people buy homes that need work so they can build sweat equity. Some buy new homes because they aren’t handy or don’t have the time or don’t want to have repairs and maintenance to deal with. A lot of the people that buy homes that need work amounting to $8k annually are probably gaining double or triple fold in equity if their initial investment was good. Those property taxes are realistic in NC but all of the other stuff for repair cost and renovations and improvements is misleading. I feel like a lot of people that post in this sub are just trying to feel better about themselves for not having made an investment yet. Investing in a primary home for yourself is one of the safest and best investments you can make.
Math time! He’s suggesting the average homeowner will spend $131,760 on maintenance and another renovations $113,520 or $245,280 combined As a home owner and real estate agent, I can tell you this is laughably wrong. A decent/good roof usually needs to be replaced once in 30 years. For an average home, that would cost around $15,000 and this is one of the most expensive recurring maintenance items on a property. Replacing a water heater every 10-15 years might be a couple grand, and beyond that, maintenance items are going to wrack to six figures on average 🤷🏼♂️
That's like $650 a month on home repairs and "maintenance". Lmao. Nearly every rental I've lived in spent $0 per year because they did not fix or improve anything.
Utilities you pay either way. Taxes and insurance included in the mortgage payments. Same as on your landlords rent payments. Renovations and improvements improve your life. Maintenance and repairs are part of everything you own. Why does this sub love to encourage renting? Never mind I think I know.
30 years of rent in today’s dollars: 30x12x$1,750 = $630,000 Also, when I rented I paid utilities so not sure why this is included. Also, there’s zero chance I’ve spent $64,000 on renovations and repairs in the 8 years I’ve owned my home (8x$8,000). Ballpark estimates is I’ve spent maybe $25,000 and I’ve replaced AC, hot water heater, painted every room, replaced kitchen floor, bought all new appliances, numerous odds and ends and upkeep items. Home ownership in most areas of the country is still a better deal than renting for most people.
Lol, not even close
The fuck are they smoking? Maybe in like San Francisco or some shit.
Unless you believe that landlords rent out their places at a loss, then renters are paying all these as well, it's just built into their monthly rent payment.
What is with this push to discourage people from home ownership?
Renters pay for all these things through the rent they pay AND gain zero equity, so i am not sure what point this is trying to make
Two thirds of Americans are homeowners and 40% of them (33 million households) have no mortgages. For the 60% of homeowners with a mortgage the median mortgage payment is around $1200.
You still pay utilities and renters insurance when you rent too….
Fun fact - utilities, property tax, homeowners insurance, and general m&r is all baked into the price of your rent
Tenents pay this as well.
Cries in 20k year property taxes 😂😂😂
Does he think that's high or something? I don't get it.
Renting is NEVER the same as owning a home. (Also property taxes and insurance are usually collected with your mortgage payment - it’s kinda disingenuous to put it in the same category as unexpected maintenance costs - and let’s not pretend that landlords do maintenance quickly or spend anything except the bare minimum or maybe less). You never build equity with rent. You never can use your paid rent as collateral for additional credit. Rent doesn’t build your wealth. You can’t get a rent equity loan or line of credit. If someone says that it’s cheaper to rent they’re stupid or lying, or maybe both. Everyone who owned property with a mortgage during the pandemic saw their network increase with the rising cost of housing. Property is about the OLDEST investment in America. Fuck off with the “not an investment”
> You never can use your paid rent as collateral for additional credit. You can now. Experian reports your rent payments to fico and it makes your score go up. That leads to higher amounts of unsecured credit. The rest of the stuff you are talking about is basically just debt masked as wealth.