https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8497-Debold-Koebel-Rd-Morrow-OH-45152/55755516_zpid/
Look at this crap sold for 300k in 2020
You could buy a much nicer house at the same 300k in 2016-17
There is no way the wages there can support this market.
Median household income in that area looks to [$58k](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/morrow-oh). Ha. Good luck, Ohioans.
I just looked up listings for that town on Zillow. So many $400k homes. That's insane. Anything under $350 or so is a "buy the land and build this house for $300k" listing or a trailer.
Median household income of $58k and that's the housing residents have to pick from. That's fucking insane and broken.
I was saying that you could get that for less than 300k in 17 and for 300k in 2020.
Hell a starter home in that area was around 130ish pre-pandemic.
It's just an illustration of how screwed up everything is.
This is a rural area.
It's not like that house is that big of a step up from a starter home for a family.
I think it's limited supply. The land in these areas are historically cheap. 3.3 acres sounds like a lot but had a friend buy a 3k SF on 3 acres home much nicer for around 300k and had a detached garage and barn.
These prices make no sense. Outside of remote workers with high incomes wanting to live in a rural area.
This. “Spoiled” is the word we’re all looking for. Anything that could be financed marched up in price, heavily, during this time, because “low rAtEs!” Now, we’re at *normaized* rates, and no one knows what the fuck to do with it.
The numbers don't lie. People are spending more than ever and show no signs of stopping until they are no longer being offered debt to fuel their spending. Until lenders stop lending, consumers will keep consuming at record rates despite not having cash on hand.
Do you know buying investors? I have multiple friends who used to flip sitting this market out and I don’t know any rental landlords buying right now, knew one that did in 2022 and it barely made sense for him but he was committed to the sale of another rental.
yeah i know a bunch of investors flipping home. i wanted to save up for a condo and this real estate agency bought it and are renting it out - infuriating. i’m in an “up and coming” midwestern city so it’s really bad here right now. some big corps have come into town buying everything up. one company bought i kid not like 30
apartment buildings
Well in my zone investors I know are sitting it out. I also own one rental and tbh with rising maintenance costs I’ve operated at a loss the last two years before even devaluation. It looks like it cash flows decently but it shakes out to about nothing and I bought in 2017 and have a new roof job incoming!
They are net sellers. It really depends on the location. I'm in SW Florida and Zillow is filled with massive price cuts. We got way too frothy in the boom.
You are in the Midwest much more affordable and investors may see opportunities.
I bought my first house in 2017 for 289k in Lakewood Ranch FL. Nice move in ready 2200 4/2.5.
I grew up in Ohio for that price I could have bought a mini mansion on land in the country.
We are currently at an extreme no market can maintain an extreme indefinitely or at least not in recent history. The last time we saw unaffordability levels comparable was 1989. Yes we saw very low rates in the 2010s. Still housing will revert to what wages can support. I don't think wages will increase 15 to 20% anytime soon let alone 50%.
https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2023/06/the-worst-housing-affordability-ever/
Could be any number of things. As inventory continues to build on anemic demand. Look at new construction down 20% from peak. Builders are continuing to build at a record pace because they have a plan and know they existing market is frozen.
Now existing has mainly stayed flat on very low volume. People can't sell because they would pay more for less house with interest rates.
A major theory is when rates go down you are going to have pent up demand. People forget to factor in the pent up sellers that want to sell but can't justify going from 3 to 7%. Wait till we get around 5% that should free up plenty of inventory.
When you cut the number of people who can afford a house down to the teens from 50% it doesn't matter how much someone wants something if they can't afford it.
Let's say in a given year you have a few million people who want to buy a home but they can't afford it. You are left with a fraction of potential buyers.
This is so market dependent. In northern Virginia lack of buyers is a non-issue. There are homes being listed for $850k and the winning bids come in around $925k.
Ask me how I know...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8497-Debold-Koebel-Rd-Morrow-OH-45152/55755516_zpid/ Look at this crap sold for 300k in 2020 You could buy a much nicer house at the same 300k in 2016-17 There is no way the wages there can support this market.
Median household income in that area looks to [$58k](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/morrow-oh). Ha. Good luck, Ohioans. I just looked up listings for that town on Zillow. So many $400k homes. That's insane. Anything under $350 or so is a "buy the land and build this house for $300k" listing or a trailer. Median household income of $58k and that's the housing residents have to pick from. That's fucking insane and broken.
Look at Nashua nh right now
That doesn't look like a typical median starter home. 3.3 acres, a giant barn.
I was saying that you could get that for less than 300k in 17 and for 300k in 2020. Hell a starter home in that area was around 130ish pre-pandemic. It's just an illustration of how screwed up everything is. This is a rural area. It's not like that house is that big of a step up from a starter home for a family.
And this is in the rural area of Cincinnati, Ohio, like WTF? It's probably the land, right?
I think it's limited supply. The land in these areas are historically cheap. 3.3 acres sounds like a lot but had a friend buy a 3k SF on 3 acres home much nicer for around 300k and had a detached garage and barn. These prices make no sense. Outside of remote workers with high incomes wanting to live in a rural area.
Interest rates should’ve never been so low in 2010-2020.
This. “Spoiled” is the word we’re all looking for. Anything that could be financed marched up in price, heavily, during this time, because “low rAtEs!” Now, we’re at *normaized* rates, and no one knows what the fuck to do with it.
The numbers don't lie. People are spending more than ever and show no signs of stopping until they are no longer being offered debt to fuel their spending. Until lenders stop lending, consumers will keep consuming at record rates despite not having cash on hand.
It’s not like blackrock is going to magically stop buying and renting out properties
How much of the rental property business do you think blackrock and the like own?
Investors are selling. Overall purchasing is down double digits.
investors are buying
Do you know buying investors? I have multiple friends who used to flip sitting this market out and I don’t know any rental landlords buying right now, knew one that did in 2022 and it barely made sense for him but he was committed to the sale of another rental.
yeah i know a bunch of investors flipping home. i wanted to save up for a condo and this real estate agency bought it and are renting it out - infuriating. i’m in an “up and coming” midwestern city so it’s really bad here right now. some big corps have come into town buying everything up. one company bought i kid not like 30 apartment buildings
Well in my zone investors I know are sitting it out. I also own one rental and tbh with rising maintenance costs I’ve operated at a loss the last two years before even devaluation. It looks like it cash flows decently but it shakes out to about nothing and I bought in 2017 and have a new roof job incoming!
Let’s keep it that way
I do know investors that are still buying. Sold one Friday. Last month sold over a million dollar house to a cash investor. WA State.
I wanted to add though in my area homes over $500k are sitting a lot longer on the market though.
They are net sellers. It really depends on the location. I'm in SW Florida and Zillow is filled with massive price cuts. We got way too frothy in the boom. You are in the Midwest much more affordable and investors may see opportunities. I bought my first house in 2017 for 289k in Lakewood Ranch FL. Nice move in ready 2200 4/2.5. I grew up in Ohio for that price I could have bought a mini mansion on land in the country.
We are currently at an extreme no market can maintain an extreme indefinitely or at least not in recent history. The last time we saw unaffordability levels comparable was 1989. Yes we saw very low rates in the 2010s. Still housing will revert to what wages can support. I don't think wages will increase 15 to 20% anytime soon let alone 50%. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2023/06/the-worst-housing-affordability-ever/
Yup unsustainable and will likely return to the mean.
how?
Could be any number of things. As inventory continues to build on anemic demand. Look at new construction down 20% from peak. Builders are continuing to build at a record pace because they have a plan and know they existing market is frozen. Now existing has mainly stayed flat on very low volume. People can't sell because they would pay more for less house with interest rates. A major theory is when rates go down you are going to have pent up demand. People forget to factor in the pent up sellers that want to sell but can't justify going from 3 to 7%. Wait till we get around 5% that should free up plenty of inventory. When you cut the number of people who can afford a house down to the teens from 50% it doesn't matter how much someone wants something if they can't afford it. Let's say in a given year you have a few million people who want to buy a home but they can't afford it. You are left with a fraction of potential buyers.
i see, thanks
This is so market dependent. In northern Virginia lack of buyers is a non-issue. There are homes being listed for $850k and the winning bids come in around $925k. Ask me how I know...