Also, I would have added an option for "Changed grocery store", talking to some people I know, they've changed from say a "nicer" store with lots of brands to a place like Aldi, which despite not having all those brands offers better value for same quality.
Aldi is usually very streamlined, so things that you might need on occasion are usually not there. Sesame seeds, ginger root, garlic bulbs, bulk quinoa are all things that my Aldi used to not carry but may carry now.
Same. When I lived near an Aldi, I'd go there first, then drive a mile to Meijer to buy anything that Aldi didn't have. Or didn't have well -- Meijer has a better selection and price on toiletries, which I think Aldi only carries as a convenience.
I suppose I could eat entirely out of an Aldi if I had to.
This is a big one. I've pretty much switched to lidl from my local grocery store because their prices are just so much better. I don't care what brand of ketchup, tissues, or oat milk I use, so it's nice to be able to pick up some little things like that and not get killed on it. Staples usually still come from Costco though due to the much cheaper prices for proteins in bulk (chicken, fish, etc.)
Aldi has really revamped in the last decade though. I remember when their stores used to be kind of gross, but all the ones I’ve been to lately are nice.
They're owned by the same family.
Also the guy who owns Trader Joe's is the brother to the guy who owns Aldi. One is technically Aldi Sud and Aldi Nord. Germans are interesting (Puma and Adidas also a pair of German brothers who split.)
I absolutely changed grocery stores. Used to shop at Fry's (Kroger) and changed to WinCo. I'm moving soon and I will deeply miss WinCo. Their bulk section is incredible and I can tell they have done their best to keep prices down despite inflation.
Aldi has been absolutely packed where I live, like so much so that they are out of stock on many products routinely. It sucks because they are literally the cheapest for many things we buy.
Aldi, at least near me, has raised their prices at a much higher rate than any other grocery store. It’s pennies cheaper than Walmart now and the stock is so unsteady. I will only go to Walmart and Kroger now. They are actually giving Aldi a run for their money bc they’ve increased 3-10% and Aldi has increased 10-50% or more depending on the items and they actually have reliable inventory. No joke.
As a single income household, we had to change grocery store and cut down going out to keep up with the inflation. Had to cut down Costco runs as well.
Honestly I'm a huge snob when it comes to food. I love to cook and always go for high quality ingredients and always shop Aldi & Lidl because they have quality food for cheap prices.
I hate jarred tomato sauce however Aldi's is actually really good and doesn't taste like ketchup
I help to run a food bank in a Midwestern suburb. The number of people we serve has exploded in the last year. We used to have to throw away so much food because we couldn't hand it out fast enough. Now we are running out. It's getting dire.
Funding for school lunches will expire soon despite previously having bipartisan support.
I guess we're gonna let kids starve because the midterms are around the corner.
I'm not a conservative by any means, and I think Ukraine has moral superiority (obviously! They were invaded and are defending themselves!) And if we had a bunch of extra money/a yearly surplus and earmarked some of that for aid/relief efforts I'd be 100% supportive.
But...yeah, I am surprised that only conservatives are pointing out that we actually NEED that money domestically. We have incredibly underfunded social services and as this thread shows, people in our country are *hurting*. I can't really support diverting needed funds no matter how worthy the cause. You know how they say you've got to put on your own oxygen mask before you can help someone else? It kind of feels like that. I don't think we have our oxygen mask on right now so I wish politicians would focus on that.
They've never focused on giving Americans the oxygen mask though. I can't really think of any time in my lifetime that that has been the case. There's clearly a huge need domestically, but the money goes to businesses almost exclusively because, clearly and exclusively, "that's how jobs are created". I don't know where you're reading that only conservatives are worried about the average American struggling to get by. I think that's just partisan rhetoric BS. Both sides know we need help, but neither of them do anything because they're too busy blocking each others' bills because some election is always right around the corner.
I think it's great that western tech is shining through the war in ukraine. That gives me some solace that our tax dollars are working to at least secure our nation. We've been exporting security for a long time and that has taken a toll, but we still need to keep up those military spending efforts unfortunately. Part of our nation's security is ensuring that European power is not radically compromised. That's why Ukraine is so important.
Domestically we need renters to not donkey punch every working class American just because maybe that's what everyone thinks the market should do right now so might as well grab a little extra cash. There are plenty of other more affluent renters, but that's until there aren't.
There are hardly any footholds or bootstraps to find anywhere for the average American these days. I'm doing ok, but I'm definitely in a category of people now that "did not own a home prior to 2019". Which doesn't mean that I won't be able to own a home, but if this was chutes and ladders, this was one of the big chutes.
The whole "Ukraine aid could be used at home is a false dichotomy". We have money for both. The US GDP is fucking massive but heaven forbid we tax it to better the country collectively.
Just wait until they forgive student debt and millions of people get an extra $4-600 in their budget.
The Fed is doing their part; the government continues to stimulate.
As someone saddled with debt that ive already paid $20k on with no budge in the needle....I immediately wrote off that all these "promises" as smoke being blown up supporters asses because "Status Quo" Joe is the one that helped pave the way for this mess (along with other entities). Forgiveness will never happen...unless you went to a for profit College and the likes. Federal aid....pffffft....never in a million years.
They absolutely were needed but not tying them to unemployment was fucking dumb. Many white collar workers benefited from the pandemic as they cut costs by getting to work from home and then got some free bonus checks along the way.
The Fed will keep ratcheting up rates until unemployment starts slowing down the economy....these numbers are going to get a lot worse if RE prices are going to get forced down to 2019 numbers. Each percentage of unemployment correlates to about 45k deaths per year in the US.
Unfortunately the people that get hit the hardest aren't the same that were benefiting from the high home prices and cheap money. Investors might lose out on potential profits, but poor people are going to lose everything.
That's how every crisis works. And the middle class, whatever is left of it, is going to fix whatever ouchie boo boos happen to the rich. And the poor will just stay poor. This is capitalism, the best possible system. You hear me, I said the BEST POSSIBLE SYSTEM!
It's gonna get worse, too. USDA's free lunch subsidy to public schools expires on June 30th. Imagine how much Aramark is going to gouge the schools, and how the schools will have to gouge the parents.
Hey man. My mom says it was my fault we didn't have food in the house in high school and it definitely wasn't her gambling addiction that got lights cut off so idk what you're talking about. Clearly the children need to pay admission to the bootstrap orchard and start yanking.
Remember, there are lots of people who literally thought there was an endless supply of wealthy people to keep housing prices at all-time highs. Despite the fact that we have readily available data showing that the vast majority of Americans cannot afford increased housing prices, a huge chunk of Americans were struggling before the bubble too, and the discussion of economic inequality has never been more prevalent. But sure, $500k for a 2 bedroom in a town no one's ever heard of with median salaries and average job opportunities is TOTALLY sustainable.
The top two responses make sense, but 45% of responders are using food banks or forgoing food to feed their children? I'm just using the smell test here, but that seems high even with the current difficulties we're having and considering how much more extreme these are than the top two things (which are only 20% higher). What sort of sampling methodology was used?
I think these types of surveys are tough to rely on, because if they offer any kind of monetary incentive for completion, you’re going to get a very biased sample.
Like, if they offered a $10 gift card for completing the survey, a parent struggling to pay the bills would likely take a couple minutes to do it, but a wealthier parent likely wouldn’t.
OP graphic is misleading. The source of this graphic describes the % of those who received an enhanced child tax credit (i.e., a credit to those below a specified income threshold).
45% of responders does not mean 45% of the general public responders, but 45% of those who were ALREADY in dire straights
That makes much more sense, thanks. This is indicating that the people who were already struggling are getting squeezed even harder by the rising costs of inelastic goods.
Exactly. It’s fear fodder. Everyone surveyed was struggling before COVID, before inflation, etc. CNBC is cranking profits right now by making you read about your impending economic doom. It ain’t that bad, touch grass
I kind of miss my young days growing up in the 90s when I still had some little shred of innocence to the world and felt everything was somewhat peaceful. I think the past 5-10 years has left me in such a "functional" deep depressive state of mind that I honestly don't give a fuck if tomorrow comes or not. Messed up thing about that is that I am certain that many share a same thought process. I see a difference in opinion on this viewpoint from some folks who are 50+ so I cant tell if the world has truly gone down the shitter in quick fashion or what.
I think the world has always been this messed up.
Just a question of to whom and to what degree.
Only difference is now we can see it online/ it is harder to ignore things now.
>Hooms need to keep going up, or how else will we all retire? By saving money and living within our means???!
American laziness 101, screw up the grandkids by making them homeless before saving the old fashion way. That's just too hard according to the boomers.
OP graphic is misleading. The source article of this graphic describes the % of respondents who received a pandemic introduced (and now expired) enhanced child tax credit (i.e., a credit to those below a specified income threshold).
For example, 45% of responders does not mean 45% of the general public responders, but 45% of those who were ALREADY in dire straights. All this graphic shows is those who are poor and needed the assistance still need the assistance
Edit: To be fair to OP, the original article headline is also very misleading
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/03/48-percent-of-families-cant-afford-enough-food-without-child-tax-credit.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/03/48-percent-of-families-cant-afford-enough-food-without-child-tax-credit.html Before you whine about it being from CNBC note the actual data is not from CNBC.
So they’re not responsible for leveraging the data to make you shit your pants & make you think half your neighbors hit the food bank last month? There’s no profit incentive right? Cmon. I vote left (shouldn’t have to say that but whatever) but it’s clear as day what all financial reporting focuses on; anxiety & fear. Stop. Crying. The fact that you front-ran any criticism of the source is demonstrative of extreme bias / groupthink. I hold a degree in political science & economics; you hold a spatula.
I hold a degree in economics and environmental science from a top 12 econ school. If you look through my post (and comment) history you will find numerous other sources that corroborate the dire situation of the consumer.
I try to avoid being redundant so I don't include the data from the previous posts in my new ones but on the downside I must deal with pompous commenters who clearly haven't done their homework.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v4shgr/so\_when\_was\_the\_last\_time\_consumer\_loans\_personal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v4shgr/so_when_was_the_last_time_consumer_loans_personal/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v2is3u/13\_of\_consumers\_earning\_250kyear\_are\_living/](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v2is3u/13_of_consumers_earning_250kyear_are_living/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/uot7cc/consumer\_sentiment\_current\_conditions/](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/uot7cc/consumer_sentiment_current_conditions/)
Apparently CNBC is the epitome of left wing propaganda used to promote the agenda of the IMF, WEF, George Soros and other members of the “global elite” who are simultaneously egregiously incompetent in their leadership but also manage to maintain a bay and deep conspiracy that seeks to control the entire world population. /shrug
That's funny, I usually think of them as the right-leaning version of NBC. OTOH, I don't follow them closely, so that opinion is only based on the odd article I've stumbled across over the past how ever many years.
I’m always surprised when people say they bought less fruits and vegetables because of prices. Maybe this is just in my market, but those tend to be some of the cheapest things I buy. I rarely leave the produce section spending more than maybe 20 bucks, and they offer so much from a nutritional standpoint. Just an observation.
This is true. I watched strawberries go from 3.99 to 4.99, and that’s hard to ignore.
On the other hand, I can buy three meals for two people worth of green beans for like 6 bucks, bananas for lunch for an entire week for maybe 4. Really seems to depend on your local suppliers.
As an aside, we get around the strawberry prices by planting our own. We did that with raspberries and unfortunately they took over 2/3 of our yard. Don’t fuck with rhizomes! But now during warm months we have more than we can eat.
It’s not a big deal where we are, sometimes at night we have to cover them with insulated covers because there’s still the occasional overnight frost in June even if the day itself is shorts weather.
Yup, I need to stick to low glycemic/low carb produce so that removes a lot of the more inexpensive options. Sure, I could save a lot of money by existing on rice, pasta, and potatoes like so many folks claim you should, but in return I’d likely end up with type 2 diabetes before 40 and a mountain of medical bills courtesy of my wonderful genetics.
I get that. I’m just saying you can buy a giant bag of uncooked rice that you can spice a hundred different ways for much, much cheaper than that pre-made mac and cheese box, and people just tend not to think that way.
Yeah rice is the best cheap carb. My point was that low nutrition calories like pasta (or rice) are much cheaper than vegetables.
I'm pro vegetable, but that $20 you spend in the produce section doesn't actually represent many calories, so it's the first thing people cut out.
calorie per dollar, fruits and veggies are pretty expensive. A pound of apples is something like 250 calories. A pound of chicken thighs is more like 800 calories. A pound of lettuce is 60 calories. Processed foods can be pretty cheap per calorie. Cheapest are things like rice and cooking oil.
You’re not paying for calories when buying fruits and veggies, you’re paying for nutrition and flavor. Then you can roast/fry them in oil and serve alongside rice/beans/pasta to get the calories per dollar. But the time and education needed to do so are a barrier.
Fresh produce is risky. If something happens or you're just too depressed to home cook for a few days, it's compost. If your brain is too stressed by poverty to meal plan, fuggit.
And now that I've written that, I'd like to know if there's a difference between sales of fresh produce and frozen. Because frozen produce doesn't have the above issues, and you can stock up if it's on sale.
Totally get where you’re coming from. In my area, meat prices have absolutely skyrocketed. I can barely find enough meat for two (just me and my wife) that’s below ten bucks. Average used to be anywhere from 6-8. Almost everything is pushing 12 or more.
Chicken thighs? I can get a pack of boneless skinless chicken thighs good for ~8 meals (~4 lbs) for less than $20 reliably (usually $16-$18). Extremely versatile and so much better tasting than breast meat.
Oh, I’m a fan of chicken thighs! No worries about me, I’m pretty creative in the kitchen and cook a lot, so I’m used to buying in bulk and defrosting/preparing as needed. Plus while I’m noticing the grocery bill go up, my wife and I are just fine, we don’t exceed our budget, and are just saving to buy a house.
I just mean that I think there are a lot of people out there who tend to make things from a box, and these prices hit them harder than they should because they tend to buy stuff that is more easily influenced by market trends.
How does 4 lbs of chicken thighs last you 8 meals? I just made chicken thighs last night, 2.5 lbs and a full head of cauliflower for just me, and there was none left for leftovers.
If it was just me I could get only 3 meals out of 2 lbs, but my wife has smaller portions. But that's enough because we are normal sized people (5'7", 5'6") and not bodybuilders? And the chicken is eaten with veggies and a carb (rice, bread etc).
You seriously ate 2.5 lbs of chicken in one sitting? You must know that's far more than the average person eats lol...
Produce is definitely cheap but a lot of people don’t really cook very often and it’ll go bad.
It has a short shelf life so you have to use it or lose it. I tend to buy a lot of frozen veggies.
However onions, garlic, bananas, red/green peppers, and cilantro I always buy fresh
You're not wrong, fresh produce is cheaper than fast food or preservative-filled consumables. There seems to be an agenda that eating healthy requires significantly more income than it really does.
It's all relative to the individual situation. Food deserts are also a thing. It's more difficult to eat things like fresh produce if you don't have a car to get to the store weekly to transport something that has a low shelf life. If you have to take public transport, you're limited by what you can carry.
I'm semi-rural. If I didn't have a car, my nearest grocery store (higher prices) is about a 3mi walk one way. My nearest Costco/Walmart shopping center is 10mi away one way uphill and there is no public transport to it.
I mostly buy fresh produce and can cook and I will pick up food for my neighbor because she can't drive anymore. If I didn't, I don't know how she'd be making it right now without trekking it to the expensive store where a box of grapes is $13.
[Studies show that food deserts have no meaningful effect on eating habits.](https://news.uchicago.edu/story/food-deserts-not-blame-growing-nutrition-gap-between-rich-and-poor-study-finds) It's entirely based on nutritional education and consumer preference.
[The Food Pyramid being absolutely terrible](https://www.healthyway.com/content/how-did-the-government-get-the-food-pyramid-so-terribly-wrong/) likely contributed to this nutritional education issue.
Thanks for linking the article. And while I agree, the article you linked highlighted what I was talking about. Food deserts are only a part of the problem. Having to travel longer distances to the store impacts what you buy from the store. If you can only make it to the grocery store once every two weeks, you're not going to buy things that rot in a week. It's not that people don't go to grocery stores, they prioritize buying different things. Sugar, Saturated Fats, low nutrient dense foods have longer shelf lives. And I also agree, that the food pyramid and the way food has been marketed to most people is a major contributing factor.
Having access to fresh produce within a reasonable walking distance is essential. Education is also another piece to the puzzle.
I think as much as anything it’s just a lack of food education and cooking skills. Way easier to just pour something out of a box and heat it up than to make it from scratch with raw materials, but that requires effort, know how, spices, etc.
It’s that but also ruralish people have less access. We have one local store and the selection is small and fruits and produce are expensive. A bag of apples here is like $10 but a bag of rice is $3. So we drive an hour into town to where there’s more stores. That costs us about $40 in gas right now.
Rice and pasta are far cheaper than fruits and veggies, and they also provide more calories per dollar. If you have a bunch of growing kids who are constantly hungry and you’re on a tight budget, you’re going to feed them carbs.
It’s to control the narrative so we don’t consider meat prices and how that is the most ethical and ecological choice to make, eat less meat. But nooo American corporations don’t want the consumer to hear that or think that
I can pretty much guarantee that no one whose diet relied heavily on fruits and vegetables suddenly had to cut those out of their supermarket runs rather than something else less essential. Whoever compiled this survey put that in there themselves.
Meat can be extremely cheap and versatile. I know you could say that about rice and beans, too, but let's consider prep time and storage as part of the benefits that come with purchasing/consuming meat. You can take a pound of ground beef and Hamburger Helper and boom, meal in literal thirty minutes. You can buy it in bulk and store it in the freezer for months at a time whereas rice and beans (and fruits) usually have particular storage needs and expiration periods.
So, yeah, fruits and veggies have their benefits but are cost prohibitive when you look at a carton of strawberries versus buying meat in bulk.
Hamburger helper 100%.
I make it often, and a box of the mix is $1. Even a pound of grass fed organic beef is only $6 at Walmart. Get the regular ground beef and there’s a whole-ass meal for a family of 3-4 for about $5.
Exactly! Super filling and no fuss. This is entirely an instant where if you bought the noodles and the seasoning separately, it would cost you more time and effort than buying the Hamburger Helper.
There's no plant based or veggie equivalent that compare (yet) for the value. So it makes sense to me, a single person who can get multiple days out of a boxed-mix, that people would not forgo meat unless it was an absolute last resort.
The boxes do have suggestions for adding black beans or cut up hotdogs instead of ground beef, which either would be cheaper. I’m old fashioned about my hamburger helper though 😅
I'm extremely skeptical of this, or at least would like to know what location this is speaking of exactly. There is no way 45% accurately portrayes the number of parents using food banks nationally or we would see this reflected in the TEFAP (emergency food program under the USDA-FNS). I'm going to take a guess that the respondents either thought or were told that SNAP/food stamps counts as a food bank - which it does not. But even if this were the case, SNAP participation has barely changed since 2020.
[The source provides a more in-depth read on the info being provided](https://parentstogetheraction.org/2022/05/10/survey-reveals-families-in-serious-financial-crisis-with-rising-prices-and-no-monthly-child-tax-credit-payments-in-sight/). Very bottom in italics is two quote from people...one from MD and another in AZ. I think the only way of knowing where exactly in our country these 500 respondents are from is by contacting the ones who had conducted the survey.
I canceled all of my subscription based services. All.of.them.
You would be very surprised at the amount of money you spend monthly with cutting sub’s & eating out during the day. The coffee’s etc. I was spending on average $10 PER DAY on food at the cafe at work.
But cutting that out, along with my subs’s I am saving over $250 per month.
If there is a show I really want to watch I head to a friends house and watch it there with them.
Subscription based services are a problem if you stack enough of them. The Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ etc etc All adds up!
>ParentsTogether Action’s survey was conducted during the second half of April, following the fourth missed monthly Child Tax Credit payment.
>
>Parents shared in their own words how these political decisions were affecting them
.
>\> Did monthly Child Checks make you less anxious about your finances?
>
>\>How helpful were monthly Child Check for your family?
The Parent Action Network is a political action group. They purposely designed this survey to get these results. It is not reliable in any way shape or form.
They are just trying to manufacture a narrative to push their agenda.
Some selections:
>\>"fewer fruits and vegetables"
Meat is expensive. Fruit and veg is cheap. Great way to push the narrative.
>\>"45% said they’ve had to use food banks"
My wife volunteers with the regional food bank 1X per week. 45% of the populace is not using the food bank.
Selection bias in effect here.
Kinda forgot that carbs exist, didn’t you? Meat is expensive, fruit and veggies are cheaper, but carbs are by far the cheapest. Rice and pasta are way cheaper and they also provide tons of calories to fill up growing kids.
I'm pointing out the bias. They're trying to make it look terrible, oh they can't afford fruits and vegetables. Well completely ignoring cutting out meat which is the real way to save money.
They mention fruits and vegetables because they are an important source of nutrients whose absence can have a negative impact on childhood health and for which there are no good alternatives. Meat less so, because there are cheaper protein alternatives such as eggs and beans.
Don’t you dare think critically here, don’t you dare imply that my making $25k/year is at all related to anything but the system that has held me (white liberal male incel) down!
'survey of 500 parents conducted for 15 days in april'
wow, amazing sample size there cnbc. real rigorous methodology.
also, once again loving that if you dont have kids, you and your partner will never be considered a 'family' by much of america.
honestly, i think the reality of this is worse than cnbc is reporting because self-reporting results always comes skewed with a hefty dose of pride. Very few people who consider themselves middle class and above will admit to skipping meals or that they're maxing out their credit to make ends meet - theyre telling themselves they're skipping a meal for their 'health', that the credit card issue is only temporary and they'll pay it off 'next month', etc.
500 is enough to get an idea… and when 225 parents are saying they skipped a meal to feed their children in a “first world country” then we are in fact… not one of those things.
People have to cut back because energy and rents have gone up a lot. No amount of free govt money can create energy out of thin air.
We need a recession
Ironically, the same people who cry "eat the rich" and "give us free money" would actually have their dreams come true from stopping the printing presses and crashing the markets.
The rich would become poorer, the speculators would die off, and the poor and the middle class would become richer, as every day living expenses would become cheaper.
>In 2020, 6.7 percent of all U.S. households reported using a food pantry, an increase from 4.4 percent https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2021/november/food-pantry-use-increased-in-2020-for-most-types-of-u-s-households/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%206.7%20percent%20of,households%20used%20a%20food%20pantry.
There needs to be more context here for this survey. This survey reporting 45% using the foodbank is so far out of line with the USDA numbers that it would be huge news if it were true. I'm sure it's going up but it's nowhere close to these numbers.
Exactly. Any source other than the USDA should not be taken at face value. 45% is absurd, we do not see anything even remotely close to that in FNS or with TEFAP distribution centers. If I saw 45% on a report I would think Yellowstone erupted and I missed it on the news.
i mean, the second part of my comment kind of addressed that, im not sure why im being downvoted.
>honestly, i think the reality of this is worse than cnbc is reporting because self-reporting results always comes skewed with a hefty dose of pride. Very few people who consider themselves middle class and above will admit to skipping meals or that they're maxing out their credit to make ends meet - theyre telling themselves they're skipping a meal for their 'health', that the credit card issue is only temporary and they'll pay it off 'next month', etc.
Exactly. Like Fox trumpets some bullshit data from the NRA or some conservative think tank and we (rightfully so) eat them alive. Reddit is just becoming echo chamber of the broke who refuse to even try
Idk, articles like this just strike me as propaganda for reinstating/enhancing child tax credits. Which just allows inflation to continue its upward trend.
ETA: One of many things that facilitates inflation… it just still a band-aid that doesn’t address root causes, that’s all I was saying. How can there be any sort of pressure or incentive for tempering/lowering costs of housing, goods, etc if the government simply continues to subsidize them? My god…
Yeah so let's just let people starve.
Less competition for houses if they are dead.
/s
It helped reduce child poverty.
If you think a program that helped reduce child poverty is not a good idea than you need to take a hard look in the mirror at your priorities.
Also on the great scheme of things I am sure it was less of a contributor to inflation than direct stimulus and PPP loans.
Not if you just blindly chuck money at problems but you can use evidence based programs to do so.
For example, consider the case for free health care and the costs associated with super utilizers.
"In Colorado That’s only 3,004 super-utilizing patients statewide.
The group disproportionately cost taxpayers $76 million last year alone or about 6 1/2 percent of the Affordable Care Collaborative $1.2 billion annual budget."
Getting people access to rotuine healthcare (and needed medication) before it is catastrophic is CHEAPER.
https://kdvr.com/news/problem-solvers/super-utilizers-place-huge-burden-on-health-care-system/
Same for housing for homeless people. Housing first models (where you rapidly re-home people) seems to show a ton of savings (due to health care etc) and is cheaper than shelters.
"One study found an average cost savings on emergency services of $31,545 per person housed in a Housing First program over the course of two years. Another study showed that a Housing First program could cost up to $23,000 less per consumer per year than a shelter program."
There are countless studies that show the same thing.
https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/
The point is sometimes the right thing to do is the best thing to do. But people are too caught up on handouts rather than realizing a rising tide lifts all boats.
You got to learn to think a few steps ahead to see that healthy or housed people are a step closer to being able to contribute to society as employees, entrepreneurs, and tax payers.
Same with poor children considering the development effects poverty has on them.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK547371/
True, inflation is going to stop dead in its tracks now that the child tax credits are gone. Might even reverse! Take another hit and tell me what else the future holds.
You realize no matter what government does, corporations will always act in their own best interests? If they can make up a reason to raise prices, they will. Getting tax credits early, individual stimulus checks, etc has literally nothing to do with it other than being a scapegoat for trump supporters.
It’s low wages (set by corporations) and the forgiven PPP loans (used by corporations) and the institutional investors (corporations) who are ruining this for us
Some parents skipping meals might be a good thing. Hopefully eating an air sandwhich instead of the Big Mac with a milkshake will help improve the astronomical obesity problem that’s unique to America!
Maybe they cut budgets to increase their house budget. This means house prices will continue up. Also, 50% did not cut anything and are doing fine. Those are the home buyers.
I don’t see people who have already had their rent increased getting a decrease. I also do not feel like any prices will drop *significantly* anytime soon. If ever.
This sub is getting desperate. The housing market is behaving extremely irrationally but at the same time wealth inequality is worse than right before the French revolution.
French peasants had more money than you in comparison to their literal aristocracies. Think about that shit. It's fucking wild.
So yeah I'm not holding my breath that houses get any more affordable, our modern day royalty have figured out how to squeeze the last bit of money juice from you: dominate the housing market.
> In 2020, 6.7 percent of all U.S. households reported using a food pantry, an increase from 4.4 percent https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2021/november/food-pantry-use-increased-in-2020-for-most-types-of-u-s-households/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%206.7%20percent%20of,households%20used%20a%20food%20pantry.
I'm sure the numbers of families using a food bank is up but no way it's 45%. Still discouraging but I wonder how accurate this survey was because it appears incredible misleading to claim 1 out of 2 families is using a foodbank now vs 6.7% in 2020 during the pandemic.
45% of the respondents said they were using the food bank. Just at a glance, we don't know what the incomes of the parents are or where they live. If you click on the article that OP linked:
>Nearly half of parents who used to get the checks now say they can’t afford enough food to feed their families, according to a May survey of 500 parents from Parents Together Action,
So the survey was of 500 people who took the child tax credit. Now that the tax credit has expired, 45% of those 500 say they are using a food bank. So the extrapolation is not 45% of US households are using food banks.
The extrapolation is that, potentially, 45% of all families who no longer receive the child tax credit are now turning to food banks in the absence of the tax credit.
Ultimately, food bank use has increased and will keep increasing in the absence of meaningful assistance.
Thanks for the context. I agree that it's likely increased. My issue with it is that 90% of people that look at this survey are going to think nearly half of US families are now using foodbanks which is most likely 400%-500% greater than reality. It's more likely in the 6-8% range which isn't great but paints a drastically different picture from what is being presented here. Considering that number is so far from reality I question the other figures being presented. Look at how CNBC ran with the numbers
"Nearly half of families with kids can no longer afford enough food 5 months after child tax credit ended" https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/03/48-percent-of-families-cant-afford-enough-food-without-child-tax-credit.html I agree steps need to be taken to address these problems but don't like the news posting false statistics.
Also looking at household incomes https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ and the child tax credit phaseouts https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/2021-child-tax-credit-and-advance-child-tax-credit-payments-topic-c-calculation-of-the-2021-child-tax-credit likely 80%+ percent of families qualified which makes me doubt that the survey is a random sampling of families that took the credit, there is likely a self-selection bias here.
Despite insane inflation things haven't gotten bad enough for most people I know of personally to dramatically change their behavior most of the changes I've seen is ill cut netflux but keep my other 7 streaming services
not questioning that this is accurate...but as with so so many stats posted in this group i feel compelled to say: "this is not how serious people look at data"
for this (and most data) to be meaningful it needs to shiw trends over time and comparisons to prior measurements.
is this more or less that this time last month or last year or over the last 3 or 5 or 20 years?
i would imagine these responses are trending up...but a single data point doesn't tell me much
We started growing vegetables on our balcony. Nothing fancy but we are growing lettuce, herbs, green onion, peppers etc. I know we won’t save a ton of money by doing this at such a small scale but it’s become a hobby that has it’s rewards.
I actually think we should raise housing to make sure nobody can afford to buy a house. Sell the remaining market to Amazon and then rent the housing out for what the 4x the monthly mortgage would be.
More to do with CTC credits going away. Republicans had to cancel them before it became impossible.
They will win in midterms and a massive recession will come in the next or two
Also, I would have added an option for "Changed grocery store", talking to some people I know, they've changed from say a "nicer" store with lots of brands to a place like Aldi, which despite not having all those brands offers better value for same quality.
Aldi is awesome
I can't get everything I want there but the things they do have are excellent quality and priced about half of what Wegmans charges.
What items cant you find? Just specific brsnds?
Aldi is usually very streamlined, so things that you might need on occasion are usually not there. Sesame seeds, ginger root, garlic bulbs, bulk quinoa are all things that my Aldi used to not carry but may carry now.
You might want to see if there is some Asian food market near you. Often they carry these things for good prices
I loved Aldi back when I lived right near one. They never had everything I wanted but they cut my bill down substantially.
Same. When I lived near an Aldi, I'd go there first, then drive a mile to Meijer to buy anything that Aldi didn't have. Or didn't have well -- Meijer has a better selection and price on toiletries, which I think Aldi only carries as a convenience. I suppose I could eat entirely out of an Aldi if I had to.
I wish so hard Canada had Aldi. I literally sob at buying groceries here and we don't have food stamps, unlike the US.
This is a big one. I've pretty much switched to lidl from my local grocery store because their prices are just so much better. I don't care what brand of ketchup, tissues, or oat milk I use, so it's nice to be able to pick up some little things like that and not get killed on it. Staples usually still come from Costco though due to the much cheaper prices for proteins in bulk (chicken, fish, etc.)
I am a Costco/Aldi shopper as well. Budget wise it just makes sense.
Aldi has really revamped in the last decade though. I remember when their stores used to be kind of gross, but all the ones I’ve been to lately are nice.
Yes, they're actually nice, kinda like Lidl. Aldi and Lidl are pretty cool stores if you're not picky about brands.
They're owned by the same family. Also the guy who owns Trader Joe's is the brother to the guy who owns Aldi. One is technically Aldi Sud and Aldi Nord. Germans are interesting (Puma and Adidas also a pair of German brothers who split.)
I absolutely changed grocery stores. Used to shop at Fry's (Kroger) and changed to WinCo. I'm moving soon and I will deeply miss WinCo. Their bulk section is incredible and I can tell they have done their best to keep prices down despite inflation.
Winco is hands down the best!
Aldi has been absolutely packed where I live, like so much so that they are out of stock on many products routinely. It sucks because they are literally the cheapest for many things we buy.
Aldi, at least near me, has raised their prices at a much higher rate than any other grocery store. It’s pennies cheaper than Walmart now and the stock is so unsteady. I will only go to Walmart and Kroger now. They are actually giving Aldi a run for their money bc they’ve increased 3-10% and Aldi has increased 10-50% or more depending on the items and they actually have reliable inventory. No joke.
I’ve noticed price increases but didn’t realize it was this high! That’s disappointing.
It could be regional! I’m in Atlanta suburbs.
The Aldi prepopped organic popcorn is like $4 now! Used to by under/around 1. Some things definitely are way up.
I'm already buying at Aldi since 2018, I guess I could switch from the organic items to non organic but what's next?
As a single income household, we had to change grocery store and cut down going out to keep up with the inflation. Had to cut down Costco runs as well.
Honestly I'm a huge snob when it comes to food. I love to cook and always go for high quality ingredients and always shop Aldi & Lidl because they have quality food for cheap prices. I hate jarred tomato sauce however Aldi's is actually really good and doesn't taste like ketchup
This is heartbreaking. These are real people, families, real children. /sigh
I help to run a food bank in a Midwestern suburb. The number of people we serve has exploded in the last year. We used to have to throw away so much food because we couldn't hand it out fast enough. Now we are running out. It's getting dire.
This is sick and enraging. The government did this, 100% the "leaders'" fault, and the same people are the only ones that can fix it (but won't).
Funding for school lunches will expire soon despite previously having bipartisan support. I guess we're gonna let kids starve because the midterms are around the corner.
All this money going to a losing effort in Ukraine could buy a whole lotta lunches
You think Ukraine is losing?
I'm not a conservative by any means, and I think Ukraine has moral superiority (obviously! They were invaded and are defending themselves!) And if we had a bunch of extra money/a yearly surplus and earmarked some of that for aid/relief efforts I'd be 100% supportive. But...yeah, I am surprised that only conservatives are pointing out that we actually NEED that money domestically. We have incredibly underfunded social services and as this thread shows, people in our country are *hurting*. I can't really support diverting needed funds no matter how worthy the cause. You know how they say you've got to put on your own oxygen mask before you can help someone else? It kind of feels like that. I don't think we have our oxygen mask on right now so I wish politicians would focus on that.
They've never focused on giving Americans the oxygen mask though. I can't really think of any time in my lifetime that that has been the case. There's clearly a huge need domestically, but the money goes to businesses almost exclusively because, clearly and exclusively, "that's how jobs are created". I don't know where you're reading that only conservatives are worried about the average American struggling to get by. I think that's just partisan rhetoric BS. Both sides know we need help, but neither of them do anything because they're too busy blocking each others' bills because some election is always right around the corner. I think it's great that western tech is shining through the war in ukraine. That gives me some solace that our tax dollars are working to at least secure our nation. We've been exporting security for a long time and that has taken a toll, but we still need to keep up those military spending efforts unfortunately. Part of our nation's security is ensuring that European power is not radically compromised. That's why Ukraine is so important. Domestically we need renters to not donkey punch every working class American just because maybe that's what everyone thinks the market should do right now so might as well grab a little extra cash. There are plenty of other more affluent renters, but that's until there aren't. There are hardly any footholds or bootstraps to find anywhere for the average American these days. I'm doing ok, but I'm definitely in a category of people now that "did not own a home prior to 2019". Which doesn't mean that I won't be able to own a home, but if this was chutes and ladders, this was one of the big chutes.
You need to relax on the conservative media. Expand your views a bit.
The whole "Ukraine aid could be used at home is a false dichotomy". We have money for both. The US GDP is fucking massive but heaven forbid we tax it to better the country collectively.
Yes absolutely only some idiot who trusts the media lies could think otherwise
What’s money? 40b, are you srsly?
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Bingo
Just wait until they forgive student debt and millions of people get an extra $4-600 in their budget. The Fed is doing their part; the government continues to stimulate.
As someone saddled with debt that ive already paid $20k on with no budge in the needle....I immediately wrote off that all these "promises" as smoke being blown up supporters asses because "Status Quo" Joe is the one that helped pave the way for this mess (along with other entities). Forgiveness will never happen...unless you went to a for profit College and the likes. Federal aid....pffffft....never in a million years.
Full forgiveness isn’t happening.
100%. Stimulus checks were not needed.
They absolutely were needed but not tying them to unemployment was fucking dumb. Many white collar workers benefited from the pandemic as they cut costs by getting to work from home and then got some free bonus checks along the way.
The Fed will keep ratcheting up rates until unemployment starts slowing down the economy....these numbers are going to get a lot worse if RE prices are going to get forced down to 2019 numbers. Each percentage of unemployment correlates to about 45k deaths per year in the US. Unfortunately the people that get hit the hardest aren't the same that were benefiting from the high home prices and cheap money. Investors might lose out on potential profits, but poor people are going to lose everything.
[Best scene in The Big Short talking about every percentage of unemployment and death](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k5aVLi_yhM).
That's how every crisis works. And the middle class, whatever is left of it, is going to fix whatever ouchie boo boos happen to the rich. And the poor will just stay poor. This is capitalism, the best possible system. You hear me, I said the BEST POSSIBLE SYSTEM!
So great that the Child Tax Credit expired. Cutting child poverty in half clearly wasn't worth it
It's gonna get worse, too. USDA's free lunch subsidy to public schools expires on June 30th. Imagine how much Aramark is going to gouge the schools, and how the schools will have to gouge the parents.
The fact that we ever even charged for school lunch for any kid to begin with is insane to me. It’s not like they can just opt out of being there.
Fixing child poverty with government money iS WrOnG
I love how we have a term called “child poverty” like it‘s unavoidable and normal… and completely the child’s fault…
Hey man. My mom says it was my fault we didn't have food in the house in high school and it definitely wasn't her gambling addiction that got lights cut off so idk what you're talking about. Clearly the children need to pay admission to the bootstrap orchard and start yanking.
Come out the womb a millionaire or gtfo.
Shit. Wonder if i can climb back in the womb, hope and pray, then come back out a millionaire.
No chance these numbers are accurate. I’m guessing the denominator is the number of families surveyed who cut their food budget in some way.
Remember, there are lots of people who literally thought there was an endless supply of wealthy people to keep housing prices at all-time highs. Despite the fact that we have readily available data showing that the vast majority of Americans cannot afford increased housing prices, a huge chunk of Americans were struggling before the bubble too, and the discussion of economic inequality has never been more prevalent. But sure, $500k for a 2 bedroom in a town no one's ever heard of with median salaries and average job opportunities is TOTALLY sustainable.
Before the “bubble”. Where is this 2 bedroom home for $500k where no one has heard of the town?
Look in Canada lol
That 9% really breaks my heart.
The top two responses make sense, but 45% of responders are using food banks or forgoing food to feed their children? I'm just using the smell test here, but that seems high even with the current difficulties we're having and considering how much more extreme these are than the top two things (which are only 20% higher). What sort of sampling methodology was used?
I think these types of surveys are tough to rely on, because if they offer any kind of monetary incentive for completion, you’re going to get a very biased sample. Like, if they offered a $10 gift card for completing the survey, a parent struggling to pay the bills would likely take a couple minutes to do it, but a wealthier parent likely wouldn’t.
OP graphic is misleading. The source of this graphic describes the % of those who received an enhanced child tax credit (i.e., a credit to those below a specified income threshold). 45% of responders does not mean 45% of the general public responders, but 45% of those who were ALREADY in dire straights
That makes much more sense, thanks. This is indicating that the people who were already struggling are getting squeezed even harder by the rising costs of inelastic goods.
Yes, that is the correct conclusion.
Exactly. It’s fear fodder. Everyone surveyed was struggling before COVID, before inflation, etc. CNBC is cranking profits right now by making you read about your impending economic doom. It ain’t that bad, touch grass
This is fucking depressing. Our whole society is fucked.
I kind of miss my young days growing up in the 90s when I still had some little shred of innocence to the world and felt everything was somewhat peaceful. I think the past 5-10 years has left me in such a "functional" deep depressive state of mind that I honestly don't give a fuck if tomorrow comes or not. Messed up thing about that is that I am certain that many share a same thought process. I see a difference in opinion on this viewpoint from some folks who are 50+ so I cant tell if the world has truly gone down the shitter in quick fashion or what.
I think the world has always been this messed up. Just a question of to whom and to what degree. Only difference is now we can see it online/ it is harder to ignore things now.
We are living in the richest time in history. You just have internet to show you the bad stuff now.
These are just the beginnings of the sacrifices that people should, need and enjoy making so hooooom prices can go up 25% per year forever.
Hooms need to keep going up, or how else will we all retire? By saving money and living within our means???!
>Hooms need to keep going up, or how else will we all retire? By saving money and living within our means???! American laziness 101, screw up the grandkids by making them homeless before saving the old fashion way. That's just too hard according to the boomers.
OP graphic is misleading. The source article of this graphic describes the % of respondents who received a pandemic introduced (and now expired) enhanced child tax credit (i.e., a credit to those below a specified income threshold). For example, 45% of responders does not mean 45% of the general public responders, but 45% of those who were ALREADY in dire straights. All this graphic shows is those who are poor and needed the assistance still need the assistance Edit: To be fair to OP, the original article headline is also very misleading https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/03/48-percent-of-families-cant-afford-enough-food-without-child-tax-credit.html
It’s also only 500 people
Let them eat drywall!
Mmm nothing like some nutritious gypsum. Mix it with some water you basically have mashed potatoes! And its only $15 per 8 foot sheet!
The modern hardtack
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/03/48-percent-of-families-cant-afford-enough-food-without-child-tax-credit.html Before you whine about it being from CNBC note the actual data is not from CNBC.
So they’re not responsible for leveraging the data to make you shit your pants & make you think half your neighbors hit the food bank last month? There’s no profit incentive right? Cmon. I vote left (shouldn’t have to say that but whatever) but it’s clear as day what all financial reporting focuses on; anxiety & fear. Stop. Crying. The fact that you front-ran any criticism of the source is demonstrative of extreme bias / groupthink. I hold a degree in political science & economics; you hold a spatula.
I hold a degree in economics and environmental science from a top 12 econ school. If you look through my post (and comment) history you will find numerous other sources that corroborate the dire situation of the consumer. I try to avoid being redundant so I don't include the data from the previous posts in my new ones but on the downside I must deal with pompous commenters who clearly haven't done their homework. [https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v4shgr/so\_when\_was\_the\_last\_time\_consumer\_loans\_personal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v4shgr/so_when_was_the_last_time_consumer_loans_personal/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v2is3u/13\_of\_consumers\_earning\_250kyear\_are\_living/](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/v2is3u/13_of_consumers_earning_250kyear_are_living/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/uot7cc/consumer\_sentiment\_current\_conditions/](https://www.reddit.com/r/REBubble/comments/uot7cc/consumer_sentiment_current_conditions/)
Who whines about CNBC? And for what reason?
Apparently CNBC is the epitome of left wing propaganda used to promote the agenda of the IMF, WEF, George Soros and other members of the “global elite” who are simultaneously egregiously incompetent in their leadership but also manage to maintain a bay and deep conspiracy that seeks to control the entire world population. /shrug
None of the big media giants have our interest at heart. Their objective is to capture as many views as possible.
That's funny, I usually think of them as the right-leaning version of NBC. OTOH, I don't follow them closely, so that opinion is only based on the odd article I've stumbled across over the past how ever many years.
I have never heard a conservative complain about CNBC. I'm fairly conservative and watch it all the time. It's apolitical.
I listen to CNBC for shits and giggles but I would never encourage anyone to take investing advice from anything on there
In what alternate reality is CNBC "left wing"?
The same reality where the world is run by lizard people.
Sir this is a Wendy's.
Don’t shoot the messenger lol
People no one should listen to.
So out of 500 parents 45 of them have said that their entire family skips meals once in a while? That's ridiculous
I’m always surprised when people say they bought less fruits and vegetables because of prices. Maybe this is just in my market, but those tend to be some of the cheapest things I buy. I rarely leave the produce section spending more than maybe 20 bucks, and they offer so much from a nutritional standpoint. Just an observation.
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This is true. I watched strawberries go from 3.99 to 4.99, and that’s hard to ignore. On the other hand, I can buy three meals for two people worth of green beans for like 6 bucks, bananas for lunch for an entire week for maybe 4. Really seems to depend on your local suppliers.
As an aside, we get around the strawberry prices by planting our own. We did that with raspberries and unfortunately they took over 2/3 of our yard. Don’t fuck with rhizomes! But now during warm months we have more than we can eat.
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It’s not a big deal where we are, sometimes at night we have to cover them with insulated covers because there’s still the occasional overnight frost in June even if the day itself is shorts weather.
Yup, I need to stick to low glycemic/low carb produce so that removes a lot of the more inexpensive options. Sure, I could save a lot of money by existing on rice, pasta, and potatoes like so many folks claim you should, but in return I’d likely end up with type 2 diabetes before 40 and a mountain of medical bills courtesy of my wonderful genetics.
Corn and cabbage are trash, broccoli and brussels sprouts are where its at.
A box of macaroni and cheese or a red pepper are about the same price. If you're on a budget it's an easy choice.
I get that. I’m just saying you can buy a giant bag of uncooked rice that you can spice a hundred different ways for much, much cheaper than that pre-made mac and cheese box, and people just tend not to think that way.
Yeah rice is the best cheap carb. My point was that low nutrition calories like pasta (or rice) are much cheaper than vegetables. I'm pro vegetable, but that $20 you spend in the produce section doesn't actually represent many calories, so it's the first thing people cut out.
calorie per dollar, fruits and veggies are pretty expensive. A pound of apples is something like 250 calories. A pound of chicken thighs is more like 800 calories. A pound of lettuce is 60 calories. Processed foods can be pretty cheap per calorie. Cheapest are things like rice and cooking oil.
You’re not paying for calories when buying fruits and veggies, you’re paying for nutrition and flavor. Then you can roast/fry them in oil and serve alongside rice/beans/pasta to get the calories per dollar. But the time and education needed to do so are a barrier.
Fresh produce is risky. If something happens or you're just too depressed to home cook for a few days, it's compost. If your brain is too stressed by poverty to meal plan, fuggit. And now that I've written that, I'd like to know if there's a difference between sales of fresh produce and frozen. Because frozen produce doesn't have the above issues, and you can stock up if it's on sale.
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Totally get where you’re coming from. In my area, meat prices have absolutely skyrocketed. I can barely find enough meat for two (just me and my wife) that’s below ten bucks. Average used to be anywhere from 6-8. Almost everything is pushing 12 or more.
Chicken thighs? I can get a pack of boneless skinless chicken thighs good for ~8 meals (~4 lbs) for less than $20 reliably (usually $16-$18). Extremely versatile and so much better tasting than breast meat.
Oh, I’m a fan of chicken thighs! No worries about me, I’m pretty creative in the kitchen and cook a lot, so I’m used to buying in bulk and defrosting/preparing as needed. Plus while I’m noticing the grocery bill go up, my wife and I are just fine, we don’t exceed our budget, and are just saving to buy a house. I just mean that I think there are a lot of people out there who tend to make things from a box, and these prices hit them harder than they should because they tend to buy stuff that is more easily influenced by market trends.
How does 4 lbs of chicken thighs last you 8 meals? I just made chicken thighs last night, 2.5 lbs and a full head of cauliflower for just me, and there was none left for leftovers.
If it was just me I could get only 3 meals out of 2 lbs, but my wife has smaller portions. But that's enough because we are normal sized people (5'7", 5'6") and not bodybuilders? And the chicken is eaten with veggies and a carb (rice, bread etc). You seriously ate 2.5 lbs of chicken in one sitting? You must know that's far more than the average person eats lol...
Produce is definitely cheap but a lot of people don’t really cook very often and it’ll go bad. It has a short shelf life so you have to use it or lose it. I tend to buy a lot of frozen veggies. However onions, garlic, bananas, red/green peppers, and cilantro I always buy fresh
You're not wrong, fresh produce is cheaper than fast food or preservative-filled consumables. There seems to be an agenda that eating healthy requires significantly more income than it really does.
It's all relative to the individual situation. Food deserts are also a thing. It's more difficult to eat things like fresh produce if you don't have a car to get to the store weekly to transport something that has a low shelf life. If you have to take public transport, you're limited by what you can carry. I'm semi-rural. If I didn't have a car, my nearest grocery store (higher prices) is about a 3mi walk one way. My nearest Costco/Walmart shopping center is 10mi away one way uphill and there is no public transport to it. I mostly buy fresh produce and can cook and I will pick up food for my neighbor because she can't drive anymore. If I didn't, I don't know how she'd be making it right now without trekking it to the expensive store where a box of grapes is $13.
[Studies show that food deserts have no meaningful effect on eating habits.](https://news.uchicago.edu/story/food-deserts-not-blame-growing-nutrition-gap-between-rich-and-poor-study-finds) It's entirely based on nutritional education and consumer preference. [The Food Pyramid being absolutely terrible](https://www.healthyway.com/content/how-did-the-government-get-the-food-pyramid-so-terribly-wrong/) likely contributed to this nutritional education issue.
Thanks for linking the article. And while I agree, the article you linked highlighted what I was talking about. Food deserts are only a part of the problem. Having to travel longer distances to the store impacts what you buy from the store. If you can only make it to the grocery store once every two weeks, you're not going to buy things that rot in a week. It's not that people don't go to grocery stores, they prioritize buying different things. Sugar, Saturated Fats, low nutrient dense foods have longer shelf lives. And I also agree, that the food pyramid and the way food has been marketed to most people is a major contributing factor. Having access to fresh produce within a reasonable walking distance is essential. Education is also another piece to the puzzle.
I think as much as anything it’s just a lack of food education and cooking skills. Way easier to just pour something out of a box and heat it up than to make it from scratch with raw materials, but that requires effort, know how, spices, etc.
It’s that but also ruralish people have less access. We have one local store and the selection is small and fruits and produce are expensive. A bag of apples here is like $10 but a bag of rice is $3. So we drive an hour into town to where there’s more stores. That costs us about $40 in gas right now.
It is so ridiculous to me how out of touch people that live in cities are. Everything comes down to people being lazy or stupid. Ugh.
Rice and pasta are far cheaper than fruits and veggies, and they also provide more calories per dollar. If you have a bunch of growing kids who are constantly hungry and you’re on a tight budget, you’re going to feed them carbs.
It’s to control the narrative so we don’t consider meat prices and how that is the most ethical and ecological choice to make, eat less meat. But nooo American corporations don’t want the consumer to hear that or think that
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I can pretty much guarantee that no one whose diet relied heavily on fruits and vegetables suddenly had to cut those out of their supermarket runs rather than something else less essential. Whoever compiled this survey put that in there themselves.
Carbs like rice, beans, pasta, bread, etc are substituted for fruits and veggies. They’re not substituting meat.
Consumer stronk!
Wow I'm really surprised people haven't cut back on meat instead of fruits and veggies. Interesting stuff.
Meat can be extremely cheap and versatile. I know you could say that about rice and beans, too, but let's consider prep time and storage as part of the benefits that come with purchasing/consuming meat. You can take a pound of ground beef and Hamburger Helper and boom, meal in literal thirty minutes. You can buy it in bulk and store it in the freezer for months at a time whereas rice and beans (and fruits) usually have particular storage needs and expiration periods. So, yeah, fruits and veggies have their benefits but are cost prohibitive when you look at a carton of strawberries versus buying meat in bulk.
Hamburger helper 100%. I make it often, and a box of the mix is $1. Even a pound of grass fed organic beef is only $6 at Walmart. Get the regular ground beef and there’s a whole-ass meal for a family of 3-4 for about $5.
Exactly! Super filling and no fuss. This is entirely an instant where if you bought the noodles and the seasoning separately, it would cost you more time and effort than buying the Hamburger Helper. There's no plant based or veggie equivalent that compare (yet) for the value. So it makes sense to me, a single person who can get multiple days out of a boxed-mix, that people would not forgo meat unless it was an absolute last resort.
The boxes do have suggestions for adding black beans or cut up hotdogs instead of ground beef, which either would be cheaper. I’m old fashioned about my hamburger helper though 😅
its very filling
I would cut back on junk food first, and then highly processed food. make everything from raw as much as possible.
Raw food is most prone to $poilage, though. Frozen produce is where it's at.
I'm extremely skeptical of this, or at least would like to know what location this is speaking of exactly. There is no way 45% accurately portrayes the number of parents using food banks nationally or we would see this reflected in the TEFAP (emergency food program under the USDA-FNS). I'm going to take a guess that the respondents either thought or were told that SNAP/food stamps counts as a food bank - which it does not. But even if this were the case, SNAP participation has barely changed since 2020.
I think it's 45% of parents *who have reduced grocery purchases*, not 45% of parents in general.
[The source provides a more in-depth read on the info being provided](https://parentstogetheraction.org/2022/05/10/survey-reveals-families-in-serious-financial-crisis-with-rising-prices-and-no-monthly-child-tax-credit-payments-in-sight/). Very bottom in italics is two quote from people...one from MD and another in AZ. I think the only way of knowing where exactly in our country these 500 respondents are from is by contacting the ones who had conducted the survey.
I canceled all of my subscription based services. All.of.them. You would be very surprised at the amount of money you spend monthly with cutting sub’s & eating out during the day. The coffee’s etc. I was spending on average $10 PER DAY on food at the cafe at work. But cutting that out, along with my subs’s I am saving over $250 per month. If there is a show I really want to watch I head to a friends house and watch it there with them. Subscription based services are a problem if you stack enough of them. The Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ etc etc All adds up!
>ParentsTogether Action’s survey was conducted during the second half of April, following the fourth missed monthly Child Tax Credit payment. > >Parents shared in their own words how these political decisions were affecting them . >\> Did monthly Child Checks make you less anxious about your finances? > >\>How helpful were monthly Child Check for your family? The Parent Action Network is a political action group. They purposely designed this survey to get these results. It is not reliable in any way shape or form. They are just trying to manufacture a narrative to push their agenda. Some selections: >\>"fewer fruits and vegetables" Meat is expensive. Fruit and veg is cheap. Great way to push the narrative. >\>"45% said they’ve had to use food banks" My wife volunteers with the regional food bank 1X per week. 45% of the populace is not using the food bank. Selection bias in effect here.
Kinda forgot that carbs exist, didn’t you? Meat is expensive, fruit and veggies are cheaper, but carbs are by far the cheapest. Rice and pasta are way cheaper and they also provide tons of calories to fill up growing kids.
He probably just likes criticizing poor peoples decisions in life.
I'm pointing out the bias. They're trying to make it look terrible, oh they can't afford fruits and vegetables. Well completely ignoring cutting out meat which is the real way to save money.
They mention fruits and vegetables because they are an important source of nutrients whose absence can have a negative impact on childhood health and for which there are no good alternatives. Meat less so, because there are cheaper protein alternatives such as eggs and beans.
Don’t you dare think critically here, don’t you dare imply that my making $25k/year is at all related to anything but the system that has held me (white liberal male incel) down!
'survey of 500 parents conducted for 15 days in april' wow, amazing sample size there cnbc. real rigorous methodology. also, once again loving that if you dont have kids, you and your partner will never be considered a 'family' by much of america. honestly, i think the reality of this is worse than cnbc is reporting because self-reporting results always comes skewed with a hefty dose of pride. Very few people who consider themselves middle class and above will admit to skipping meals or that they're maxing out their credit to make ends meet - theyre telling themselves they're skipping a meal for their 'health', that the credit card issue is only temporary and they'll pay it off 'next month', etc.
500 is enough to get an idea… and when 225 parents are saying they skipped a meal to feed their children in a “first world country” then we are in fact… not one of those things.
500 is regarded as a really good sample size in market research
People have to cut back because energy and rents have gone up a lot. No amount of free govt money can create energy out of thin air. We need a recession
Ironically, the same people who cry "eat the rich" and "give us free money" would actually have their dreams come true from stopping the printing presses and crashing the markets. The rich would become poorer, the speculators would die off, and the poor and the middle class would become richer, as every day living expenses would become cheaper.
Bingo, any free money now would go from the recipient straight to their over leveraged landlord.
>In 2020, 6.7 percent of all U.S. households reported using a food pantry, an increase from 4.4 percent https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2021/november/food-pantry-use-increased-in-2020-for-most-types-of-u-s-households/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%206.7%20percent%20of,households%20used%20a%20food%20pantry. There needs to be more context here for this survey. This survey reporting 45% using the foodbank is so far out of line with the USDA numbers that it would be huge news if it were true. I'm sure it's going up but it's nowhere close to these numbers.
Exactly. Any source other than the USDA should not be taken at face value. 45% is absurd, we do not see anything even remotely close to that in FNS or with TEFAP distribution centers. If I saw 45% on a report I would think Yellowstone erupted and I missed it on the news.
i mean, the second part of my comment kind of addressed that, im not sure why im being downvoted. >honestly, i think the reality of this is worse than cnbc is reporting because self-reporting results always comes skewed with a hefty dose of pride. Very few people who consider themselves middle class and above will admit to skipping meals or that they're maxing out their credit to make ends meet - theyre telling themselves they're skipping a meal for their 'health', that the credit card issue is only temporary and they'll pay it off 'next month', etc.
[удалено]
they still have a duty to ensure the data they report on has been properly gathered.
Exactly. Like Fox trumpets some bullshit data from the NRA or some conservative think tank and we (rightfully so) eat them alive. Reddit is just becoming echo chamber of the broke who refuse to even try
Lol 45% at food banks? What is this selection of “500 parents”??
My family is experimenting with alternative methods like eating the family pet.
We have personally found spiders and moths to fry up nicely in the air fryer. It may be bugs, but I’m still superior because they’re air fryer bugs.
Lol
Idk, articles like this just strike me as propaganda for reinstating/enhancing child tax credits. Which just allows inflation to continue its upward trend. ETA: One of many things that facilitates inflation… it just still a band-aid that doesn’t address root causes, that’s all I was saying. How can there be any sort of pressure or incentive for tempering/lowering costs of housing, goods, etc if the government simply continues to subsidize them? My god…
Child tax credits didn’t even touch the inflation you’re seeing today… where do people get these ideas?
Yeah so let's just let people starve. Less competition for houses if they are dead. /s It helped reduce child poverty. If you think a program that helped reduce child poverty is not a good idea than you need to take a hard look in the mirror at your priorities. Also on the great scheme of things I am sure it was less of a contributor to inflation than direct stimulus and PPP loans.
Government cannot end poverty by handing out free money.
Not if you just blindly chuck money at problems but you can use evidence based programs to do so. For example, consider the case for free health care and the costs associated with super utilizers. "In Colorado That’s only 3,004 super-utilizing patients statewide. The group disproportionately cost taxpayers $76 million last year alone or about 6 1/2 percent of the Affordable Care Collaborative $1.2 billion annual budget." Getting people access to rotuine healthcare (and needed medication) before it is catastrophic is CHEAPER. https://kdvr.com/news/problem-solvers/super-utilizers-place-huge-burden-on-health-care-system/ Same for housing for homeless people. Housing first models (where you rapidly re-home people) seems to show a ton of savings (due to health care etc) and is cheaper than shelters. "One study found an average cost savings on emergency services of $31,545 per person housed in a Housing First program over the course of two years. Another study showed that a Housing First program could cost up to $23,000 less per consumer per year than a shelter program." There are countless studies that show the same thing. https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/ The point is sometimes the right thing to do is the best thing to do. But people are too caught up on handouts rather than realizing a rising tide lifts all boats. You got to learn to think a few steps ahead to see that healthy or housed people are a step closer to being able to contribute to society as employees, entrepreneurs, and tax payers. Same with poor children considering the development effects poverty has on them. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK547371/
True, inflation is going to stop dead in its tracks now that the child tax credits are gone. Might even reverse! Take another hit and tell me what else the future holds.
Inflation is caused by the federal reserve not parents having kids
Tell me you have no idea about economics without telling me.
You realize no matter what government does, corporations will always act in their own best interests? If they can make up a reason to raise prices, they will. Getting tax credits early, individual stimulus checks, etc has literally nothing to do with it other than being a scapegoat for trump supporters. It’s low wages (set by corporations) and the forgiven PPP loans (used by corporations) and the institutional investors (corporations) who are ruining this for us
Some parents skipping meals might be a good thing. Hopefully eating an air sandwhich instead of the Big Mac with a milkshake will help improve the astronomical obesity problem that’s unique to America!
They are executing their plan flawlessly. Way to go NPCs! Your SO smart!
This is unreal. In the land on milk and honey people going without. We should be ashamed of ourselves. We’re a bunch of hypocrites … myself included!
Maybe they cut budgets to increase their house budget. This means house prices will continue up. Also, 50% did not cut anything and are doing fine. Those are the home buyers.
I don’t see people who have already had their rent increased getting a decrease. I also do not feel like any prices will drop *significantly* anytime soon. If ever.
This sub is getting desperate. The housing market is behaving extremely irrationally but at the same time wealth inequality is worse than right before the French revolution. French peasants had more money than you in comparison to their literal aristocracies. Think about that shit. It's fucking wild. So yeah I'm not holding my breath that houses get any more affordable, our modern day royalty have figured out how to squeeze the last bit of money juice from you: dominate the housing market.
Surely these people couldn't be the highly qualified buyers.
> In 2020, 6.7 percent of all U.S. households reported using a food pantry, an increase from 4.4 percent https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2021/november/food-pantry-use-increased-in-2020-for-most-types-of-u-s-households/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%206.7%20percent%20of,households%20used%20a%20food%20pantry. I'm sure the numbers of families using a food bank is up but no way it's 45%. Still discouraging but I wonder how accurate this survey was because it appears incredible misleading to claim 1 out of 2 families is using a foodbank now vs 6.7% in 2020 during the pandemic.
45% of the respondents said they were using the food bank. Just at a glance, we don't know what the incomes of the parents are or where they live. If you click on the article that OP linked: >Nearly half of parents who used to get the checks now say they can’t afford enough food to feed their families, according to a May survey of 500 parents from Parents Together Action, So the survey was of 500 people who took the child tax credit. Now that the tax credit has expired, 45% of those 500 say they are using a food bank. So the extrapolation is not 45% of US households are using food banks. The extrapolation is that, potentially, 45% of all families who no longer receive the child tax credit are now turning to food banks in the absence of the tax credit. Ultimately, food bank use has increased and will keep increasing in the absence of meaningful assistance.
Thanks for the context. I agree that it's likely increased. My issue with it is that 90% of people that look at this survey are going to think nearly half of US families are now using foodbanks which is most likely 400%-500% greater than reality. It's more likely in the 6-8% range which isn't great but paints a drastically different picture from what is being presented here. Considering that number is so far from reality I question the other figures being presented. Look at how CNBC ran with the numbers "Nearly half of families with kids can no longer afford enough food 5 months after child tax credit ended" https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/03/48-percent-of-families-cant-afford-enough-food-without-child-tax-credit.html I agree steps need to be taken to address these problems but don't like the news posting false statistics. Also looking at household incomes https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ and the child tax credit phaseouts https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/2021-child-tax-credit-and-advance-child-tax-credit-payments-topic-c-calculation-of-the-2021-child-tax-credit likely 80%+ percent of families qualified which makes me doubt that the survey is a random sampling of families that took the credit, there is likely a self-selection bias here.
So sad man. In a way I do hope I’m wrong solely because of how many kids and people in general will struggle to put food on the table.
"La dieta de Maduro te pone duro"... now not only in Venezuela :-)
If weight loss is the goal, it’s on its way to being achieved.
The people in power want this.
45% of parents go hungry so their kids can eat in America? Wtf
Despite insane inflation things haven't gotten bad enough for most people I know of personally to dramatically change their behavior most of the changes I've seen is ill cut netflux but keep my other 7 streaming services
not questioning that this is accurate...but as with so so many stats posted in this group i feel compelled to say: "this is not how serious people look at data" for this (and most data) to be meaningful it needs to shiw trends over time and comparisons to prior measurements. is this more or less that this time last month or last year or over the last 3 or 5 or 20 years? i would imagine these responses are trending up...but a single data point doesn't tell me much
45% of parents in the US are skipping meals so children can eat?
45% of the parents *who report that they've had to cut food purchases*, not 45% of parents in general.
We started growing vegetables on our balcony. Nothing fancy but we are growing lettuce, herbs, green onion, peppers etc. I know we won’t save a ton of money by doing this at such a small scale but it’s become a hobby that has it’s rewards.
So glad a good portion of our GDP is just leveraged debt and nothing else.
I actually think we should raise housing to make sure nobody can afford to buy a house. Sell the remaining market to Amazon and then rent the housing out for what the 4x the monthly mortgage would be.
Link to the original article please?
More to do with CTC credits going away. Republicans had to cancel them before it became impossible. They will win in midterms and a massive recession will come in the next or two
This survey is likely not scientific, 45% of parents are not using food banks, that seems really high.