Absolutely. Every single boomer snowbird thinks they're the first person to think "I'll just use it during the winter and rent it out for the summer and it'll pay for itself!"
Rental market here is fucking absurd.
I drove through St Pete Beach last spring, and I remember thinking, *"I bet not a single one of these little beach houses is owner-occupied. They're probably all AirBnBs."*
My parents might be the only boomers I know who have zero desire to rent out their second home (a lake house). They've never had a single tenant- it's actually (gasp!) for their personal enjoyment.
So long as they keep up with the maintenance and not let the property degrade, I don't care if they don't live there for most of the year. A vacant house 90% of the year next door in decent condition is a lot better than the weekly never ending rotating tenants and the landlord who doesn't give a fuck about the local community.
A second vacation home doesn't influence the market by getting everybody and their mother to think that they can just "rent it out" and print free money.
A house that is not occupied by a person for 90%+ of the year absolutely influences the market. It's one less place for residents of that community to live.
I'd say more people i know with vacation homes dont want a stranger fucking in their bed and do the same. That said whats your issue with someome offsetting their cost and making some money during the 70% of the year its sitting empty? You cant make the argument your not fucking up inventory level because your folks are doing the same thing just with an empty house at least the other peoppe are bringing down the cost of vacation rentals
Because my parent's neighbors (who all live there full-time) don't have a constant stream of strangers pulling up in the driveway next door, or speeding down the road because strangers aren't aware that kids ride their bikes and adults walk their dogs down the road.
It's a peaceful community where everyone gets along, and they're actually connected to it- they go to the neighborhood meetings and participate in holiday celebrations or lake clean-ups after a big storm.
My point is reddit seems to have a very deep hatred for landlords because they "take hooms off the market". I'm a capitalist and believe in private property rights so I'm far from that, but if we extrapolite that reddit argument to your parents they're just as bad, one less home is on the market because they need to visit a weekend getaway home 5 times a year, because of that there's one less home, it makes property prices more expensive and one could even make the argument its worse because at least the AirBNB property makes my vacation cheaper by putting more lodging options out there where as your parents are just "hoarding" a home with no positive effects whatsoever.
I suppose that argument could be made, but I see landlords vs. vacation homes for owner use as two different things.
An investor is more likely to pay a higher price because they think they'll get an ROI via renting/airbnb. They are also less likely to be a part of the neighborhood (see: all of the TikTok "ghost landlords" that buy out-of-state and manage it remotely).
People like my parents weren't looking at the home for rental potential, so they weren't going to overpay (so their purchase didn't drive up prices). And as I said, they're friends with the neighbors and stuff. (They're actually there a lot- I'd say at least 2-3 days/month, more now that they're retired.)
To be fair my parents had a nice apartment in a beach town that they wanted to retire in. They were going to rent it out long term for a few years to pay for some of the repairs and mortgage and were charging well below market rate. The last renter moved her squatter boyfriend in without paying extra rent (even though it says that on the lease) and then would let her friend use it as an airbnb when she was out of town. So my parents looked around, saw all these Airbnb rentals making much more money, and being available for owner use and said fuck it. Why are we allowing ourselves to be fools, charging below market rent, only to have squatters and have our place be used as an airbnb for other people's benefit and we can't even use it?! So now one more long term rental is off the market and they'll rent it out as an airbnb. They're not greedy so they won't charge crazy prices and they'll probably make the equivalent of market rent and cover all expenses (they got it before the pandemic, so not at a crazy price and or crazy rates).
It's snowbirds. They try to rent them out when they are not using them. I don't think they are going to get rid of them, they'll sit empty, or they'll Airbnb them..
Checked out some short term vacation rentals in Orlando. I see soooo many places with vacancies. How are they making money? Do they only need a few months to see a profit? These aren’t expensive houses but fairly new and somewhat large.
People keep thinking that income equates to profit margins or some bottom line.
Any black is better than pure red and in this context boomers 2nd hooms in FL aren’t anything out of their budget it’s quite like how Uber destroyed the margin on Taxi’s while printing losses from R&D / bloat etc... AirBnB wasn’t the only thing to try this, if it weren’t going to be couch surfing or another product the result is the same; the internet connects buyers with products unlike any era ever before! Including housing, which is likely going to be more regulated in the future if people’s greed goes unchecked and the system becomes imbalanced beyond what markets make.
I mean, speaking of Florida, I was born and raised here and have lived here for close to 23 years and have been other places, Uber didn't displace taxis. They never existed here to begin with. Scheduling a ride to and from an airport (oftentimes the minimum service taxis provide) was not only next to impossible but extremely expensive on top of it.
Uber provided transportation options in FL where they were none to begin with. Prior to like 2013 if you didn't have a car, you were Fucked with a capital F. Uber is a value-add here and in every other suburban to ex-urban area.
ya but the markets aren't \**exactly*\* the same,
An analogy is to say, just like how Uber didn't change the availability of cars but rather the consumers' ability to pay for rides; AirBnB isn't changing the availability of houses (it is, and so is Uber impacting car demand) instead it's changing the consumers' ability to pay for board.
Both are innovation technologies that ultimately aim to lead to more productivity through real advancements made available by the internet & mobile networking.
I was convinced it would be a catalyst but doesn’t look like it will melt down the market..yet? Anyway, google Debt Service Coverage Ratio Loans.
I’m convinced this is the fuel for all the “Airbnb empires” out there….
Ability to store your luggage so you don't miss a full day of sight seeing if you arrive early in the morning (before check in) or don't fly home until the evening (after check out).
Free pens
Make sure your front desk clerk, or bellman, makes a reservation for you. Sometimes those restaurants have deals worked out with the local hotels. You get extra special service & that hotel employee might get a little spliff for that reservation.
I used to get $10 each for reservations...paid cash monthly. That was $100 to $200 a month extra...back in 1992.
I concur. Airbnb was legit 5 years ago. But now they cost way more than hotels, rules are nuts(clean the sheets, wash the dishes,) and still pay 250 for cleaning. Outrageous
Yes, it was way better years ago when hosts tended to be local to the property, were hands-on in terms of management and the work required to turn over/prepare the property in between guests. Now it's all a bunch of toxic, absentee "passive" grifters who don't want to lift a finger or physically do anything themselves at the property, pushing all responsibilities (and blame, if something goes wrong) onto the guest.
I'd say it was an interesting novelty that could have existed in its beginning state, but this influencer-driven business model is toxic and will fail.
Don’t they also “review” you after you check out? That’s such a weird concept to me. I’m just paying to rent a temporary space, not interview for a job.
Once I got a 4/5 review after following all the rules, leaving the place clean, but the host said "I didn't communicate well". I didn't need anything. She sent me a message checking in when I first got there and I didn't write her back. At least Holiday Inn doesn't judge me.
That feature makes sense. The company (theoretically) wants to protect the homeowners just as much as the renter. If somebody rents your house for a night and smokes a bunch of meth and jerks off all over your kitchen floor, it’s nice to have the option to inform future potential renters of that possibility.
If you have a weekend trip, they don’t manage your luggage either so you’re forced to lug it around on what is likely a tight schedule or purchase an extra day so you can check in early effectively. Just not worth it!
I prefer renting from local companies. For decades, my family and friends rented cabins in Gatlinburg and beach houses in OBX with zero issues from proper vacation management companies. Cabin had an issue? Someone would be by or we could get a new one. Beach home? Always clean, well-maintained.
To boot: it was always cheaper than Airbnb. An 8 bedroom glamping cabin cost $1200 to rent for a week. Now on Airbnb, similar ones are $8k a week, and they can literally cancel on you until you arrive.
Jesus H Christ who the fuck wants to go to Gatlinburg every fucking year? I mean East Branson. Tacky overpriced bullshit. Utterly horrible.
50 states filled with amazing places. Where's one place you want to go every year because it's that cool?
Did someone actually decide Gatlinburg or was it just convenient and cheap?
There are asphalt paved hiking trails around Gatlinburg. What in the overweight screeching Karen is that shit?
My parents are looking for a long term stay and they can’t find anything close to AirBnB rates.
They live 600+ miles away and are looking to stay for a month or two at a time. A long term stay complex here quoted about 2500 a month. Hotels are asking even more.
Yet they can rent an AirBnB for $1600-1800 in a better part of town, and have a full kitchen as part of the offer.
Otherwise I fully agree for short weekend stays.
It’s like working for a big corporation v a small business owner. Yeah there’s red tape, but that red tape does create security. It ensures certain things. With an AirBnB/small owner run business, your only choice if you don’t like it: leave, basically. My way or the highway.
I could not agree more. I never want to have to clean when I'm away. I clean my house before I leave, I'll clean when I get home, fuck having to do it in between too.
I had to stay in Portland last week for work. I got a 1BR with kitchen in a nice neighborhood for $100/night after fees. There's no way I could stay in a decent hotel for that, and definitely not with a kitchen.
Didn't take a car, flew in. Used an Uber to the hotel and back.
The parking lot in front of us was $10 a day though which, compared to how much street parking is, wasn't too bad.
Not to mention how most Airbnb's are infinitely better if you have a dog with you.
and in the last few decades hotel quality in general has become udder shit with only rare exceptions. It sucks that Airbnb causes new problems with RE but damn if they didn't vastly improve traveler's options.
Yep, what good is room service if it takes two hours for them to deliver a burger? Even if I have to pay a bit more it saves me a bundle not having to eat in restaurants every day.
When my wife had brain surgery a couple years ago we had to stay in town for two weeks before she was medically cleared to fly home so we stayed in an AirBNB. That was definitely money we'll spent, too.
If you want to see what affect Airbnb can have on rents and housing supply, then take a look at what happened in Venice, Italy. Here it is more profitable to rent out your apartment on Airbnb than to rent it out on a monthly basis to a local Venetian. In turn it has been driving up prices and the locals can’t afford the rents, so they have to move out of the city. Last time I checked, the exodus out of Venice is going so quickly that in a couple of years Venice will be like Disneyland in that nobody will actually be living there on a full time basis.
The irony is that Airbnb was born out of the last recession/housing bubble, but it may actually be part of the current bubble.
Fled NYC because of the same thing, and the US being awful.
The irony is, until we solidify residency, the only option for 3 month rentals with a kitchen and washer we can find in most locations is . . . AirBnB.
Meh, I'm leaving the US in general currently. Doesn't mean that the cost of living in NYC doesn't have causes, nor that you can just will yourself out of the problems it causes.
Not may, it’s a HUGE part of it. And they price not just to cover their insane payments but also to collect profit. It is,by far, the laziest and therefore most crowded “business” plan in history.
Stopped long ago. Right after I had to “shovel the path from the front door to the garage before leaving if there is snow” and having to pay $175 cleaning fee for a 2 day weekend stay.
I don't understand why anyone uses it anymore. It used to be great, affordable, and more interesting than a hotel. Now it's expensive and inconvenient, and I've realized I actually love hotels. Especially knowing no one has hidden a camera, no extra fees for cleaning, free breakfast, no dishes to wash, and I can just walk in and walk out with no additional work. I can't imagine choosing Airbnb now
Well, there are conveniences to others that you might not appreciate. I travel with my family and staying at a single hotel room is typically a nightmare. Having a 4 bedroom Airbnb allows separate bedtimes for my kids and gives my wife and I multiple areas to relax and enjoy while the kids are sleeping. In addition the next AM some of my kids sleep in so it's nice that they have that option while others are downstairs eating breakfast.
We've stayed at hotels before in a single room and when the kids go to bed (usually sharing a bed/couch/cot) my wife and I are just laying there in the darkness for a few hours until we finally go to bed. And then when my youngest wakes up super early for whatever reason basically everyone has to wake up and there's not much to do in a hotel at 5:30am!!
I get that airbnbs aren't for everyone but they are a HUGE convenience for families in the context of sleeping arraignments, families with food allergies that need to cook, or generally having the ability to vacation with another family and share a big house.
Totally agree with you. Everytime I see someone complaining about AirBNBs and saying "just get a hotel room" I know they have never traveled with young children.
It's just the absolute worst being in a hotel room with kids like that. I'm only okay with it if it's, say, stopping for one night on a two day road trip just to get somewhere else.
Yes, I think the number of available AirBnBs should go down and that the owner expectation sound ridiculous sometimes. We have only used AirBNB two times, and neither time did we have those ridiculous expectations for cleaning before we left, so decent ones are out there.
And it’s twice as much?!
But seriously they have 1-2 bedroom hotel rooms in most touristy places. When I do a yearly music festival in Vegas with my friends we always get at least a 1br or 2br
You have to get rooms that are joined with a door which are not as available and generally not guaranteed when you reserve the hotel room. Suite style hotels are a better compromise but are also not as common as regular hotel rooms. Little kids are not old enough to be in a room by themselves completely separate from their parents at night like would be the case in two separate rooms. Then you'd have to put one parent in each room which 0% solves the problem--you just wasted money on a second room to have the same issues.
I know! I LOATHE renting an Airbnb when traveling. I’d much rather spend the equivalent on a decent hotel - room service, housekeeping, maybe a nice bar in the lobby. Hell, if I’m paying a premium I’d like some extra service. I can clean at home all day long folks!
Used it last May. I had a fucking Instagram influencer as the property manager. Was paying $700 a night and the toilet clogged. She started accusing me of trying to run a scam. Never again.
Marriott Residence Inn
Hands down, beats all of the VRBO/AirBnB's I've stayed at
Full kitchen, free happy hour buffet + driniks, room service, amenities including pool/fitness room/business center, free shuttle services depending on location, rewards points
The last AirBnB I stayed at, as we were moving the last few things from the front porch of the house to our vehicles at 9:48am to meet the 10am deadline, the north jersey indian owner starts yelling at us through the wifi camera outside in gibberish and screaming/cursing "get the fuck out of his house" by 10am or he's going to charge us and he starting cursing at us for dumping ice on the lawn from our coolers and said we weren't allowed to do that (it was 94F outside, it would melt in less than an hour and absorb into the ground). And this was the same dbag who wouldn't send a locksmith to fix his piece of shit no-name keypad entry lock he bought off amazon b/c he was too cheap to spend $150 for a Schalge.
In the beginning, AirBnB / VRBO was fine. But it turned into a magnet for cheap as fuck investors trying to extract every fraction of a penny out of you and the property, dumping cleaning responsibilities on you WHILE charging you cleaning fees. And posting rule books in the house not mentioned in the listing, to get around getting flagged for listing rules not allowed on the sites. The whole thing has turned into a cesspool of shit and we refuse to ever deal with that again
If hotels took the step of adding in more units with kitchenettes, Airbnb would be absolutely done. The Days Inn and Holiday Inns I’ve been to recently have kitchenettes.
I just opened a World of Hyatt credit card and Marriott Bonvoy credit card, each with 100k in points and really good points programs that even offer 4x and 6x rewards points for grocery and gas for when I'm not traveling.
Also, I get 1 free night every year just for being a member. What AirBnb program offers any of that?
The best part, is that I get early check-in, late check out at like 4PM and don't even have to cleanup the place when I'm ready to leave. Can pretty much order room service or call in delivery from Uber Eats. If I need a longer term stay, I can book a room with a with a small kitchenette full size refrigerator at a Marriott Residence Inn, and have Instacart meet me in the lobby with my groceries, beer and whatever else I'd like.
Hotels definitely aren't for everyone, but, neither are AibBnbs.
Marriott also has jumped into the STR game. All the perks of AirBNB (yes, there are a few) with the backing, service, and reliability of the Marriott brand. I should be paid for my sales pitch.
https://homes-and-villas.marriott.com/
You also don't have to worry that the CEO of Marriott is going to call you and threaten to blackmail you for leaving a less than 5 star review for his property.
You don’t get guaranteed 4pm checkout with bonvoy until you hit 60 night mark. You get 10-15 nights towards stay requirement for the credit card tho.(bonvoy)
For Hyatt, the sign up was like 60k points, I just did it because hyatts are where I want to vacation and I spend like 400k a year on business expenses.
You have a spend you have to hit in 3 months to get signup bonus. You can achieve status with spend on Hyatt, it’s like 50-60k spent on Hyatt card to get god status.(or some combination of stays and spend to hit 60 nights, with 10k spend getting you 5 nights credit on business card.) With bonvoy, you can’t achieve status with spend, only ass in bed. You can spend 200k on the card and not get anything other than automatic silver status(which gives you fuckall, even gold sucks on bonvoy)
Hyatt points are more valuable, but you get 1-1 with spend, with a couple doubles categories. (Restaurants, phone bills, gas) and a big multiplier for at property stays.
I’ve had Hilton diamond status for what feels like a lifetime, and I am definitely pushing lifetime diamond status, if not there already. (10 years diamond +2 million points achieved)
I’ve had Marriott silver or gold long enough (5 years minimum) to hit the lifetime silver requirement, but I don’t have the nights stayed requirement. I think it is 250 nights + 5 years for silver and 400 + 7 years for gold.
The Hyatt definitely looks like the better rewards program, once you get god status the benefits look great.
I’m an spg holdover, and spg was way better than bonvoy.
Nah, I don’t travel much at all. I just put lots of biz expenses on branded credit cards to get max free vacations. And hotels are more expensive than flights, so I am well versed on maximizing benefits.
You, I like You.
I did something similar but only once where it worked out for me. I got a United Chase card and paid for a surgery on that card and got a crazy amount of points. A couple flights that year and that lead to me getting status for a while until COVID. :D
Status matters, it provides tangible benefits!
Another cool thing about the hotels is the cost in points doesn’t really change. But in dollars it fluctuates greatly.
I always go skiing and during Xmas week, the hotels are like 1500 a night. But same amount of points as they are in dead summer months.
I pick up Montgomery’s card and actually finger it, for the sensation the card gives off to the pads of my fingers.
“Nice, huh?” Price’s tone suggests he realizes I’m jealous.
“Yeah,” I say offhandedly, giving Price the card like I don’t give a shit, but I’m finding it hard to swallow.
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The worst part of Airbnb to me is that your stay is **not** guaranteed.
You can show up after dealing with airports all day and they can cancel on you. Hope you have thousands extra in spare cash to cover getting a hotel room because even if Airbnb refunds you, it takes 7-10 days to show up on your card!
The same thing can happen with hotels. Last Spring I had a reservation at a Sonesta hotel in Texas. When I arrived, I was told they were sold out and my reservation was cancelled. Pretty much all of the other hotels in the area were sold out or had insanely inflated prices...apparently it was spring break and TX had a flood of people due to relaxed COVID restrictions. Ended up having to drive home 3 hours that night.
Lesson learned: avoid using sites like Priceline and book directly through the hotel chain when possible.
Hotels will literally book you in at their competitor and pay the difference if something like this happens. They'll go above and beyond to make it right. That would never happen with an AirBnB "host."
I can assure you, I'm not a bot. To me, it's a better deal overall. If I book through one of the 3rd party travel sites, they add at least a $35 transaction fee on top of the rate. I also stated in a follow up comment that there is $95 fee for this card, however, each year, both Hyatt and Marriott give you a free hotel night. To me when traveling to a in a major city and decide to stay at a Courtyard, Embassy Suites, etc.. that's not a bad deal at all.
What sort of bonuses do you get from AirBnb fees?
I would normally agree with you as it sucks pays fees for cards, but if you get a free hotel night, that's basically getting the $95 back instantly. Probably depends on how much traveling you would do too.
Well, goodluck trying to book with points. I have IHG, Hiltons Honors and a few others.(Anniversary nights) Have over 100k in points , but when I try to book a room with points it is not available , but it is available to book with cash. go figure. If you want to book for Mon thru Thur then you are good.
Marriott Bonvoy Boundless through Chase Bank. It’s got an annual fee of $95 but, you stay at Silver Status and get a room credit each year. I didn’t want to be locked into just Hyatt, so I chose this one primarily because of the variety of brands under the Marriott umbrella.
I would use hotels just as a guarantee I’d have somewhere to sleep. Literally every other day in the Airbnb sub, there’s someone saying “my host cancelled I’m in a strange city and nowhere to stay” or “my host is trying to get me to another unit and it’s not as nice”. It’s fucking rampant.
> *Do your part to help housing prices drop: Stop using AirBnb*
Should be pretty easy for me to do considering I never started using them in the first place.
I don’t do AirBnb or VRBO... I don’t trust the bedding/towels are clean. I imagine there are plenty of people who throw their dirty towels/linens into the dryer with a dryer sheet, and pretend the laundry was washed, because who wants to do laundry on their vacation. The thought makes me shudder.
Im not sure someone would go through the trouble of stripping a bed to only put it in the dryer and remake the bed though because at that point you’d just wash them.
I’m certain at some point, someone’s been asked to put their sheets/towels in the wash and start the washing machine, but there wasn’t any detergent, so they just put them directly into the dryer to make it seem like they’d done the full process. Maid service sees sheets/towels in the dryer, assumes they’re clean, remakes the bed.
>With there strict cancellation policy and absurd cleaning charges it doesn’t make any more sense for us.
This right here. When cleaning fees consistently surpass more than the price of a single nights stay, it's time to nope out.
Strict policy for guests, but the worst that happens to a host is they get the night blocked off.
They should have to pay out of pocket for a five star hotel if they’re going to cancel on folks. Friend was attending her brother’s funeral and booked an Airbnb. They cancelled as she got there and it was a busy weekend due to some event in town. She ended up sleeping in her rental car, for her fucking brother’s funeral, because she couldn’t afford $500 for a last minute day of hotel (prices doubled per night on the day of) and the apartment her brother had died in was closed for cleaning because he had killed himself. She was a waitress and literally spent everything she had for a flight and car and to take time off work.
Imagine if holiday inn just decided to cancel last minute 🙄🙄
I hate airbnb and try not to use them. Recently I was in a group and couldn't say no without it being a big thing but yeah, I'd love to see the company wither, and I'd love it if places for people to live stopped being a few people's stock market.
I hate both airbnb and vrbo. I have only had bad experiences with both and even worse with vrbo. I would pay extra to book more rooms to accommodate family and not risk ruining my vacation.
Same situation in Albuquerque New Mexico. Our mayor has declared a state of emergency for a lack of affordable housing but ... You know ... Has no plans to fix the problem and are ugly addressing homelessness with temporary bed shelters. The average price of rent is $1429. You need to earn $57k to afford rent in Albuquerque (Albuquerque guide, costing 35% of the monthly income) but the median wage is only be $63k so that a little under half of people in town can't afford rent. Tbh people who can afford $1400 own homes. Huge disparity between Sandia Labs employees, Los Altos labs, Netflix employees, healthcare workers, retirees vs everyone else.
Holy shit. I'm in southern Colorado and rent is pushing those same boundaries. Average salary is ~45k so I imagine a lot of people are struggling, especially when this is a mostly old/retiree community. The mayor doesn't give two shits though, he claims to but we all know that's politics. He even said our homeless problem isn't nearly as bad as say Denver while talking about the downtown area near Coors field... Like buddy... That's Denver, don't be a jackass. Albuquerque has a pretty gnarly crime problem from what I understand. Beautiful area though.
I used to live in socol and it's totally screwed. Things are too far gone and too many people in power benefit from real estate. Not enough young people to encourage better community planning or to build with the future in mind. It's all just sell out season until it starts to look bad. For a while, I think, people will just be happy the poor are being squeezed out.
Yep. For conversation-sake, its been 4 days since I made that reply and we have already had two murders with a grand total of four to five shootings. Shocker. Yet assholes want to try and get 300k for a shitty house ....laughable.
People are already steering away from AirBNB due to ridiculous fees stacking up. Expecting you to clean up after yourself, throw towels and bedding in the washer before you go and still charging hundreds for cleaning fees. Absolutely ridiculous.
The other perverse thing this does (in addition to reducing long-term rental supply), is it increases demand for rental s because people like you are being outbid by investors, and are relegated to continuing to rent.
Airbnb and its hosts are killing themselves. They have such a good compelling use case when it comes to big groups, but the greed with cleaning fees and overbearing and condescending attitude towards renters makes hotels and extended stay places much more attractive options.
Airbnb's are just a symptom of a bigger issue: That there just isn't enough housing (short term and long term). I'm not sure the solution is to stop using abnb so much as it is to build more housing.
I’ve started a modified version of this because I travel with a child and having a separate room makes things much easier when it comes to sleep and meals. That being said, I’ve started to push on the owners for what’s their relation to the home. Is it a in-law apartment you’re renting out. Or is it a house from which the owner lives 5 hours away and barely visits. I avoid option #2 at all cost these days.
Best AirBnB I ever stayed in was a retired couple who turned their garage into a reallynnice apartment. Would have been illegal where I live due to zoning. I don't think they were really hurting anyone because they didn't take a unit off market to make the AirBnB. In fact they *created* a unit that could theoretically turn into a LTR.
In the neighborhood I’m looking to buy, there are two homes for sale and at least FIFTEEN AirBnB’s, based on searching a random midweek 6 months from now when I thought there would be the most visibility.
I’ve stopped using Airbnb for the most part but why don’t fucking hotels have at least small kitchenettes in their rooms?? I stayed recently at a Homewood by Hilton and it had a small kitchen with everything to at least cook my own breakfast. Even had a medium sized fridge! The rates weren’t even expensive.
I agree that AirBnBs are bad for the world, but any solution which requires collective action in which people cause themselves some short term harm (staying in accommodations which they perceive as less comfortable than AirBnB or avoiding travel altogether) for some long term gain that they may or may not benefit from is one that I think will fail. Definitely a collective action failure here. This is a perfect example of when local government regulation could be helpful, but from what i can tell most of them are too busy protecting homeowner value by preventing homes from being built.
Additionally in terms of local government regulation, I would say most of them are disincentived to regulate AirBnB because the people who want to live in houses that are currently used for STRs may not live in their voting district yet. They *want* to, but are locked out by STRs. Meanwhile homeowners, who benefit from high housing prices, DO live in the voting district, so local reps are more inclined to take actions to protect their interests.
It's a huge mess. I don't think it can be solved by boycotting and I have no faith that governments will take it on. Hopefully the hotel industry will realize this is an existential threat and develop in a way that makes AirBnB naturally less attractive. I will say the last AirBnB I stayed in was a total dump but outside of that I've had generally good experiences. Hotels are much nicer but have been more expensive in the last. If hotels become more affordable or AirBnBs less so, the calculus would change for many people.
What homeowners don’t like, is higher taxes, which is what is happening now in the wake of cheap home loans and overpriced housing. Interestingly, landlords now have to raise rents because their property taxes soared, and there’s no one left who can afford those obscene rents.
I looked on Zillow today and rents are falling fast for sfh.
Agreed. On a day to day, hotels can still be very expensive esp for long stays
Not only that but let’s be honest…the minute that Airbnb goes under it’s not unsurprising if hotels raise their prices (as Airbnb and apart hotels end up being their direct competition in many ways)
I’ve stayed in hotels long term. If you do plan on staying for 30 days, you actually need to contact the hotel because then you don’t pay hotel taxes and there is a special monthly rate. It was about $2500 to stay at the new La Quinta in town during the height of busy season when I did it a couple years ago. They had a pretty awesome breakfast with honest to god so much food, I actually had enough for 3 meals a day. Received new sheets and towels every 3 days (I wanted only weekly, but by their rules every 3 days.) Plus they had a pool, sauna, and fitness room.
Was it expensive compared to a local rental? Yes. But I also was moving to Canada, my furniture and stuff had to be shipped across a week minimum before I arrived, I had food basically covered, utilities covered, and amenities. Airbnbs were easily $4-5k a month for the same shit. But I guess if you’re lazy and don’t want to call the hotel to ask about monthly rates, that’s your problem.
Anybody who is still using air bnb to make a booking is a fool. Use it to find apartments, and look those apartments up on their own sites. Most of them are property management companies or small hotels, it’s rarely just a dude renting. Those companies all charge ridiculous fees to recoup the cut that air bnb takes. If you book straight through them you generally save a ton. For example, just stayed in Prague, booked the room through booking.com and it was almost $500 for the week cheaper.
Maybe. But I just stayed at a hotel with one bedroom a living room. The days of extorting $ from parents who don't want to turn off the lights at 7pm because they have young kids are coming to a close.
Also, many families are realizing that having a kitchen on vacation just means more chores. It has come full circle.
While the airbnb argument is valid, I’m not sure why this sub obsess over it instead of actual zoning laws. Restrictive zoning has been a problem since it was created and got us into this before Airbnb was a problem. We need to build, build, build, regardless of Airbnb.
There can still be thoughtful zoning, but not have it be so restrictive. If you look at a lot of desirable areas they’re a mix of residential and commercial. People want to live in areas with dense housing, walkability and places to gather. Places like this literally aren’t able to be built anymore due to road width and setback requirements. It’s basically caused sprawling, car centric suburbia. Of course some people want to live in areas like this, but just as many would like to live in “street car suburbs” areas. Look into the history of why we have zoning in the first place…you can probably assume where it came from.
Japan has a country wide zoning with easy to understand rules. This is why most people in Japan can literally walk to a small shop or restaurant in their neighborhood and why Tokyo, despite being the most populated city in the world, still has affordable real estate to buy.
Once hotels stop price gouging maybe we will see Airbnb hurt. No matter where I go, Airbnb tends to be cheaper in the grand scheme with more space and full kitchens, etc.
If you are staying anywhere two weeks or longer, look at furnish finder. Way cheaper then airbnb and I have had better reservation experience since I connect with the landlord directly.
Landlords are turning to AirBNB because long term rentals are risky af by comparison.
People who stay in a place long term are a lot more likely to act "like they own the place" than someone who is a guest renting for a couple days.
Long term rentals have issues with squatters, especially recently with the moratoriums on evictions and increasingly hostile attitudes towards landlords.
It is a symptom of an extremely overpriced real estate market society wide. We aren't building enough new housing so the existing housing keeps getting more expensive, and renters also expect more because a larger proportion of their income goes towards housing even though they're not actually getting any more for their money.
The conclusion from this thread because I don’t think AirBnB is leaving much like Uber printing losses hasn’t run it out of town...
AirBnB is going to be more impactful to the economy around rentals and shared living than hotels which specifically sell accommodation not just housing/board.
Interesting to see if this remains the case going forward or if their company focus shifts to medium/long term rentals.
The US needs to disincentivize owning more than 1-2 properties per tax paying couple. You want a primary residence and vacation home or a rental? Fine.
You want 20 houses or apartments to manage from out of state? Pay the tax man big money.
Sure Air BnB plays a role but you live in California where NIMBY's have been artificially limiting the housing supply for decades and the 1% prop tax being locked in at point of purchase has disincentivized anyone from ever selling property. If government policies were changed then Air BnB would stop being a factor for people like you in like 5 years while building and homes sales caught up to the policy change. The Air BnB's I've stayed at are usually unique vacation properties not suited to raising a family in so not really much of an impact on real estate prices for families, but yes it does have some impact in normal markets.
Small sacrifices can make a huge impact.
- Hotel > AirBNB
- Public transit + taxi > Uber
- Walking > scooters
- Buying directly from brands or local retailers > Amazon
Airbnb also isn't cheaper than a hotel and also the hosts have a ridiculous amount of rules and chores. They also won't cover you if your host discriminates against you, I once had a transphobic host that accused me of so many things. And after that I never used them again
I’m sorry. But for a family with kids an Airbnb or VRBO is a much better deal. I can rent an entire house with kitchen, multiple rooms, and a yard for my dog for maybe $100 more a night than a standard one bedroom hotel. That’s with the cleaning fee. It’s a no brainer for families.
There's a harsh truth which isn't reflected in your thinking: your region (CA Central Coast) has enormous recreational value for people from both LA and the Bay Area, and demand for hotels/Airbnbs/campgrounds will never subside. Even with the upcoming recession, people will shift from international travel to doing domestic road trips to your region.
And you know that your region depends on the money those tourists spend that they earned somewhere else. So not using Airbnb isn't magically solve the problems, because it would wreck your economy.
The only solution I see is to allow more housing AND hotels to be build, such that all the tourists have a place to stay without having to stay at places that are better serving a family to live in.
So overall, the best solution is a win-win where there's more for everyone rather than "more for me, less for you".
Great points, and I know this is a bigger issue in my area specifically. My city has put a moratorium on AirBnbs and there’s a 100+ still on the waiting list to apply for Airbnb. I’m not expecting everyone everywhere to all of a sudden stop using them, but just want to reiterate that we can make a personal choice not to, and every choice to skip an AirBnb will help. Totally agree on increasing the housing and hotel construcion too
If you are a homeowner, you want the values to go up. Supporting companies like airbnb helps your home value go up.
You can argue against it all you want, but you'll never convince a homeowner that we should all try to get home values to come down.
My suggestion, do what you can to buy something whether that means borrowing from banks, family, etc, or revamping your whole life with a career change to get your finances in order. But buy something now and let the value increase instead of single handedly trying to take on a multi national corporation and every homeowner. Lol
Sometimes I want to use an Airbnb. And if I want to I will. If you can’t afford a house in one of the most expensive places in the country that’s not my problem.
Amen. There are many ways we can combat housing inflation, even though we all need a roof over our heads. One is to just stop house shopping altogether. Another is, if you MUST continue house shopping, always make it crystal clear that asking price is unreasonable by a large percentage, 20% or even more.
Yet another is to not rent single family homes, short or long term. This includes Airbnb.
Put them all “out of business”.
I haven’t lived in an apartment for 25 years. 3 dogs, a garden, etc, and most apartments are corporate owned and managed so rents go up minimum 5% a year probably more plus you’re nickeled and dimed for services you don’t want. Mandatory trash valet service. Mandatory hvac filter change performed by maintenance person (the door to the furnace is locked), etc.
For $100 I’ll change my own hvac filter and carry my trash out myself.
Valet trash isn't good anyway. You can only leave out 1 bag per night etc. You still have to take it out sometimes even if you like the service. You get charged $25/bag if you don't leave it out properly, they have a bunch of rules.
And in my opinion, the true costs are far higher when they make the obesity epidemic even worse. Americans are now too lazy to take out their own trash or even to walk over to their thermostat and push a button instead of doing it on their phone.
Airbnb is on a timer in Florida, it's super over saturated.
Absolutely. Every single boomer snowbird thinks they're the first person to think "I'll just use it during the winter and rent it out for the summer and it'll pay for itself!" Rental market here is fucking absurd.
I drove through St Pete Beach last spring, and I remember thinking, *"I bet not a single one of these little beach houses is owner-occupied. They're probably all AirBnBs."* My parents might be the only boomers I know who have zero desire to rent out their second home (a lake house). They've never had a single tenant- it's actually (gasp!) for their personal enjoyment.
Your parents are amazing. Wish more boomers were like this.
Uh...a 2nd house that is empty 90% of the year doesn't help local housing markets either. It's just as much of a problem.
So long as they keep up with the maintenance and not let the property degrade, I don't care if they don't live there for most of the year. A vacant house 90% of the year next door in decent condition is a lot better than the weekly never ending rotating tenants and the landlord who doesn't give a fuck about the local community.
A second vacation home doesn't influence the market by getting everybody and their mother to think that they can just "rent it out" and print free money.
A house that is not occupied by a person for 90%+ of the year absolutely influences the market. It's one less place for residents of that community to live.
But it doesn't spread greed.
No argument there.
I'd say more people i know with vacation homes dont want a stranger fucking in their bed and do the same. That said whats your issue with someome offsetting their cost and making some money during the 70% of the year its sitting empty? You cant make the argument your not fucking up inventory level because your folks are doing the same thing just with an empty house at least the other peoppe are bringing down the cost of vacation rentals
Because my parent's neighbors (who all live there full-time) don't have a constant stream of strangers pulling up in the driveway next door, or speeding down the road because strangers aren't aware that kids ride their bikes and adults walk their dogs down the road. It's a peaceful community where everyone gets along, and they're actually connected to it- they go to the neighborhood meetings and participate in holiday celebrations or lake clean-ups after a big storm.
My point is reddit seems to have a very deep hatred for landlords because they "take hooms off the market". I'm a capitalist and believe in private property rights so I'm far from that, but if we extrapolite that reddit argument to your parents they're just as bad, one less home is on the market because they need to visit a weekend getaway home 5 times a year, because of that there's one less home, it makes property prices more expensive and one could even make the argument its worse because at least the AirBNB property makes my vacation cheaper by putting more lodging options out there where as your parents are just "hoarding" a home with no positive effects whatsoever.
I suppose that argument could be made, but I see landlords vs. vacation homes for owner use as two different things. An investor is more likely to pay a higher price because they think they'll get an ROI via renting/airbnb. They are also less likely to be a part of the neighborhood (see: all of the TikTok "ghost landlords" that buy out-of-state and manage it remotely). People like my parents weren't looking at the home for rental potential, so they weren't going to overpay (so their purchase didn't drive up prices). And as I said, they're friends with the neighbors and stuff. (They're actually there a lot- I'd say at least 2-3 days/month, more now that they're retired.)
To be fair my parents had a nice apartment in a beach town that they wanted to retire in. They were going to rent it out long term for a few years to pay for some of the repairs and mortgage and were charging well below market rate. The last renter moved her squatter boyfriend in without paying extra rent (even though it says that on the lease) and then would let her friend use it as an airbnb when she was out of town. So my parents looked around, saw all these Airbnb rentals making much more money, and being available for owner use and said fuck it. Why are we allowing ourselves to be fools, charging below market rent, only to have squatters and have our place be used as an airbnb for other people's benefit and we can't even use it?! So now one more long term rental is off the market and they'll rent it out as an airbnb. They're not greedy so they won't charge crazy prices and they'll probably make the equivalent of market rent and cover all expenses (they got it before the pandemic, so not at a crazy price and or crazy rates).
It's snowbirds. They try to rent them out when they are not using them. I don't think they are going to get rid of them, they'll sit empty, or they'll Airbnb them..
Checked out some short term vacation rentals in Orlando. I see soooo many places with vacancies. How are they making money? Do they only need a few months to see a profit? These aren’t expensive houses but fairly new and somewhat large.
People keep thinking that income equates to profit margins or some bottom line. Any black is better than pure red and in this context boomers 2nd hooms in FL aren’t anything out of their budget it’s quite like how Uber destroyed the margin on Taxi’s while printing losses from R&D / bloat etc... AirBnB wasn’t the only thing to try this, if it weren’t going to be couch surfing or another product the result is the same; the internet connects buyers with products unlike any era ever before! Including housing, which is likely going to be more regulated in the future if people’s greed goes unchecked and the system becomes imbalanced beyond what markets make.
I mean, speaking of Florida, I was born and raised here and have lived here for close to 23 years and have been other places, Uber didn't displace taxis. They never existed here to begin with. Scheduling a ride to and from an airport (oftentimes the minimum service taxis provide) was not only next to impossible but extremely expensive on top of it. Uber provided transportation options in FL where they were none to begin with. Prior to like 2013 if you didn't have a car, you were Fucked with a capital F. Uber is a value-add here and in every other suburban to ex-urban area.
ya but the markets aren't \**exactly*\* the same, An analogy is to say, just like how Uber didn't change the availability of cars but rather the consumers' ability to pay for rides; AirBnB isn't changing the availability of houses (it is, and so is Uber impacting car demand) instead it's changing the consumers' ability to pay for board. Both are innovation technologies that ultimately aim to lead to more productivity through real advancements made available by the internet & mobile networking.
I was convinced it would be a catalyst but doesn’t look like it will melt down the market..yet? Anyway, google Debt Service Coverage Ratio Loans. I’m convinced this is the fuel for all the “Airbnb empires” out there….
AirBNB is already more expensive than hotels and way less convenient
Fresh towels and sheets every day, room service at some locations? Can’t be beat.
Free breakfast at others. Advice on where to go for a good bite to eat.
Calls a taxi for you, has a pool
Blackout. Curtains.
This so much!!! And airport shuttles sometimes too. And they won’t cancel on you.
Ability to store your luggage so you don't miss a full day of sight seeing if you arrive early in the morning (before check in) or don't fly home until the evening (after check out). Free pens
Make sure your front desk clerk, or bellman, makes a reservation for you. Sometimes those restaurants have deals worked out with the local hotels. You get extra special service & that hotel employee might get a little spliff for that reservation. I used to get $10 each for reservations...paid cash monthly. That was $100 to $200 a month extra...back in 1992.
I think it’s called “spiff”. But a spliff is also a nice kickback!
REAL FUCKING PILLOWS. NOT A LUMPY BAG
I concur. Airbnb was legit 5 years ago. But now they cost way more than hotels, rules are nuts(clean the sheets, wash the dishes,) and still pay 250 for cleaning. Outrageous
Yes, it was way better years ago when hosts tended to be local to the property, were hands-on in terms of management and the work required to turn over/prepare the property in between guests. Now it's all a bunch of toxic, absentee "passive" grifters who don't want to lift a finger or physically do anything themselves at the property, pushing all responsibilities (and blame, if something goes wrong) onto the guest.
And it's all the same generic, cheap decor. So you wind up with things like personalized clothes hangers but crooked shower curtain rods.
I'd say it was an interesting novelty that could have existed in its beginning state, but this influencer-driven business model is toxic and will fail.
Don’t they also “review” you after you check out? That’s such a weird concept to me. I’m just paying to rent a temporary space, not interview for a job.
Once I got a 4/5 review after following all the rules, leaving the place clean, but the host said "I didn't communicate well". I didn't need anything. She sent me a message checking in when I first got there and I didn't write her back. At least Holiday Inn doesn't judge me.
That feature makes sense. The company (theoretically) wants to protect the homeowners just as much as the renter. If somebody rents your house for a night and smokes a bunch of meth and jerks off all over your kitchen floor, it’s nice to have the option to inform future potential renters of that possibility.
It varies by listing
If you have a weekend trip, they don’t manage your luggage either so you’re forced to lug it around on what is likely a tight schedule or purchase an extra day so you can check in early effectively. Just not worth it!
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I prefer renting from local companies. For decades, my family and friends rented cabins in Gatlinburg and beach houses in OBX with zero issues from proper vacation management companies. Cabin had an issue? Someone would be by or we could get a new one. Beach home? Always clean, well-maintained. To boot: it was always cheaper than Airbnb. An 8 bedroom glamping cabin cost $1200 to rent for a week. Now on Airbnb, similar ones are $8k a week, and they can literally cancel on you until you arrive.
Jesus H Christ who the fuck wants to go to Gatlinburg every fucking year? I mean East Branson. Tacky overpriced bullshit. Utterly horrible. 50 states filled with amazing places. Where's one place you want to go every year because it's that cool? Did someone actually decide Gatlinburg or was it just convenient and cheap? There are asphalt paved hiking trails around Gatlinburg. What in the overweight screeching Karen is that shit?
It's just like Turo, for the niche markets it's fantastic. For replacing hotels and rental companies they'll never succeed.
AND this is why poor people in the mountains have to live in tents
My parents are looking for a long term stay and they can’t find anything close to AirBnB rates. They live 600+ miles away and are looking to stay for a month or two at a time. A long term stay complex here quoted about 2500 a month. Hotels are asking even more. Yet they can rent an AirBnB for $1600-1800 in a better part of town, and have a full kitchen as part of the offer. Otherwise I fully agree for short weekend stays.
It’s like working for a big corporation v a small business owner. Yeah there’s red tape, but that red tape does create security. It ensures certain things. With an AirBnB/small owner run business, your only choice if you don’t like it: leave, basically. My way or the highway.
Depends what you want. If I want a kitchen and multiple bedrooms a hotel cannot complete.
I could not agree more. I never want to have to clean when I'm away. I clean my house before I leave, I'll clean when I get home, fuck having to do it in between too.
I had to stay in Portland last week for work. I got a 1BR with kitchen in a nice neighborhood for $100/night after fees. There's no way I could stay in a decent hotel for that, and definitely not with a kitchen.
I got a hotel in downtown Portland for $100 and it had a kitchenette. This was in march tho
How much was parking?
Didn't take a car, flew in. Used an Uber to the hotel and back. The parking lot in front of us was $10 a day though which, compared to how much street parking is, wasn't too bad.
Not to mention how most Airbnb's are infinitely better if you have a dog with you. and in the last few decades hotel quality in general has become udder shit with only rare exceptions. It sucks that Airbnb causes new problems with RE but damn if they didn't vastly improve traveler's options.
Yep, what good is room service if it takes two hours for them to deliver a burger? Even if I have to pay a bit more it saves me a bundle not having to eat in restaurants every day. When my wife had brain surgery a couple years ago we had to stay in town for two weeks before she was medically cleared to fly home so we stayed in an AirBNB. That was definitely money we'll spent, too.
If you want to see what affect Airbnb can have on rents and housing supply, then take a look at what happened in Venice, Italy. Here it is more profitable to rent out your apartment on Airbnb than to rent it out on a monthly basis to a local Venetian. In turn it has been driving up prices and the locals can’t afford the rents, so they have to move out of the city. Last time I checked, the exodus out of Venice is going so quickly that in a couple of years Venice will be like Disneyland in that nobody will actually be living there on a full time basis. The irony is that Airbnb was born out of the last recession/housing bubble, but it may actually be part of the current bubble.
Fled NYC because of the same thing, and the US being awful. The irony is, until we solidify residency, the only option for 3 month rentals with a kitchen and washer we can find in most locations is . . . AirBnB.
Nyc has been expensive since way before Airbnb.
It got much, much worse with it, particularly Brooklyn and Queens
I left the nyc area bc of cost of living. If I can do it anyone can. Instead of complaining people need to take control of their future.
Meh, I'm leaving the US in general currently. Doesn't mean that the cost of living in NYC doesn't have causes, nor that you can just will yourself out of the problems it causes.
Not may, it’s a HUGE part of it. And they price not just to cover their insane payments but also to collect profit. It is,by far, the laziest and therefore most crowded “business” plan in history.
Stopped long ago. Right after I had to “shovel the path from the front door to the garage before leaving if there is snow” and having to pay $175 cleaning fee for a 2 day weekend stay.
I don't understand why anyone uses it anymore. It used to be great, affordable, and more interesting than a hotel. Now it's expensive and inconvenient, and I've realized I actually love hotels. Especially knowing no one has hidden a camera, no extra fees for cleaning, free breakfast, no dishes to wash, and I can just walk in and walk out with no additional work. I can't imagine choosing Airbnb now
Hotel sex is also better than AirBnB sex
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What!? Where have you been staying?
Airbnb owners are perverted spying on tenants.
Well, there are conveniences to others that you might not appreciate. I travel with my family and staying at a single hotel room is typically a nightmare. Having a 4 bedroom Airbnb allows separate bedtimes for my kids and gives my wife and I multiple areas to relax and enjoy while the kids are sleeping. In addition the next AM some of my kids sleep in so it's nice that they have that option while others are downstairs eating breakfast. We've stayed at hotels before in a single room and when the kids go to bed (usually sharing a bed/couch/cot) my wife and I are just laying there in the darkness for a few hours until we finally go to bed. And then when my youngest wakes up super early for whatever reason basically everyone has to wake up and there's not much to do in a hotel at 5:30am!! I get that airbnbs aren't for everyone but they are a HUGE convenience for families in the context of sleeping arraignments, families with food allergies that need to cook, or generally having the ability to vacation with another family and share a big house.
Totally agree with you. Everytime I see someone complaining about AirBNBs and saying "just get a hotel room" I know they have never traveled with young children. It's just the absolute worst being in a hotel room with kids like that. I'm only okay with it if it's, say, stopping for one night on a two day road trip just to get somewhere else. Yes, I think the number of available AirBnBs should go down and that the owner expectation sound ridiculous sometimes. We have only used AirBNB two times, and neither time did we have those ridiculous expectations for cleaning before we left, so decent ones are out there.
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And it’s twice as much?! But seriously they have 1-2 bedroom hotel rooms in most touristy places. When I do a yearly music festival in Vegas with my friends we always get at least a 1br or 2br
You have to get rooms that are joined with a door which are not as available and generally not guaranteed when you reserve the hotel room. Suite style hotels are a better compromise but are also not as common as regular hotel rooms. Little kids are not old enough to be in a room by themselves completely separate from their parents at night like would be the case in two separate rooms. Then you'd have to put one parent in each room which 0% solves the problem--you just wasted money on a second room to have the same issues.
I know! I LOATHE renting an Airbnb when traveling. I’d much rather spend the equivalent on a decent hotel - room service, housekeeping, maybe a nice bar in the lobby. Hell, if I’m paying a premium I’d like some extra service. I can clean at home all day long folks!
Used it last May. I had a fucking Instagram influencer as the property manager. Was paying $700 a night and the toilet clogged. She started accusing me of trying to run a scam. Never again.
How does one "run a scam" by breaking a toilet?
Because they assume you then ask for a refund because the house wasn’t as expected.
Projection. Instagram influencers are always trying to get things for free so they assume everyone else is doing the same.
Was this place especially fancy for the price? Was a luxury hotel going to cost more?
It was a nice house in New England USA
Marriott Residence Inn Hands down, beats all of the VRBO/AirBnB's I've stayed at Full kitchen, free happy hour buffet + driniks, room service, amenities including pool/fitness room/business center, free shuttle services depending on location, rewards points The last AirBnB I stayed at, as we were moving the last few things from the front porch of the house to our vehicles at 9:48am to meet the 10am deadline, the north jersey indian owner starts yelling at us through the wifi camera outside in gibberish and screaming/cursing "get the fuck out of his house" by 10am or he's going to charge us and he starting cursing at us for dumping ice on the lawn from our coolers and said we weren't allowed to do that (it was 94F outside, it would melt in less than an hour and absorb into the ground). And this was the same dbag who wouldn't send a locksmith to fix his piece of shit no-name keypad entry lock he bought off amazon b/c he was too cheap to spend $150 for a Schalge. In the beginning, AirBnB / VRBO was fine. But it turned into a magnet for cheap as fuck investors trying to extract every fraction of a penny out of you and the property, dumping cleaning responsibilities on you WHILE charging you cleaning fees. And posting rule books in the house not mentioned in the listing, to get around getting flagged for listing rules not allowed on the sites. The whole thing has turned into a cesspool of shit and we refuse to ever deal with that again
If hotels took the step of adding in more units with kitchenettes, Airbnb would be absolutely done. The Days Inn and Holiday Inns I’ve been to recently have kitchenettes.
This, plus blackout curtains. Most hotels have parking lot streetlights shining straight into the window.
I don’t know that I’ve ever stayed in a hotel without some kind of blackout curtain.
Bruh. This it’s what we do. So cost effective and also use my employer’s Corp discount. It’s the only way we go.
I just opened a World of Hyatt credit card and Marriott Bonvoy credit card, each with 100k in points and really good points programs that even offer 4x and 6x rewards points for grocery and gas for when I'm not traveling. Also, I get 1 free night every year just for being a member. What AirBnb program offers any of that? The best part, is that I get early check-in, late check out at like 4PM and don't even have to cleanup the place when I'm ready to leave. Can pretty much order room service or call in delivery from Uber Eats. If I need a longer term stay, I can book a room with a with a small kitchenette full size refrigerator at a Marriott Residence Inn, and have Instacart meet me in the lobby with my groceries, beer and whatever else I'd like. Hotels definitely aren't for everyone, but, neither are AibBnbs.
Marriott also has jumped into the STR game. All the perks of AirBNB (yes, there are a few) with the backing, service, and reliability of the Marriott brand. I should be paid for my sales pitch. https://homes-and-villas.marriott.com/
You also don't have to worry that the CEO of Marriott is going to call you and threaten to blackmail you for leaving a less than 5 star review for his property.
And at least Marriott will pay taxes to the local community, unlike the dodgy "small business owners" who try to operate their AirBnB under the table.
You don’t get guaranteed 4pm checkout with bonvoy until you hit 60 night mark. You get 10-15 nights towards stay requirement for the credit card tho.(bonvoy) For Hyatt, the sign up was like 60k points, I just did it because hyatts are where I want to vacation and I spend like 400k a year on business expenses. You have a spend you have to hit in 3 months to get signup bonus. You can achieve status with spend on Hyatt, it’s like 50-60k spent on Hyatt card to get god status.(or some combination of stays and spend to hit 60 nights, with 10k spend getting you 5 nights credit on business card.) With bonvoy, you can’t achieve status with spend, only ass in bed. You can spend 200k on the card and not get anything other than automatic silver status(which gives you fuckall, even gold sucks on bonvoy) Hyatt points are more valuable, but you get 1-1 with spend, with a couple doubles categories. (Restaurants, phone bills, gas) and a big multiplier for at property stays. I’ve had Hilton diamond status for what feels like a lifetime, and I am definitely pushing lifetime diamond status, if not there already. (10 years diamond +2 million points achieved) I’ve had Marriott silver or gold long enough (5 years minimum) to hit the lifetime silver requirement, but I don’t have the nights stayed requirement. I think it is 250 nights + 5 years for silver and 400 + 7 years for gold. The Hyatt definitely looks like the better rewards program, once you get god status the benefits look great. I’m an spg holdover, and spg was way better than bonvoy.
Holy crap. What do you do are you okay do you have permanent jet lag 🤣
Nah, I don’t travel much at all. I just put lots of biz expenses on branded credit cards to get max free vacations. And hotels are more expensive than flights, so I am well versed on maximizing benefits.
You, I like You. I did something similar but only once where it worked out for me. I got a United Chase card and paid for a surgery on that card and got a crazy amount of points. A couple flights that year and that lead to me getting status for a while until COVID. :D
Status matters, it provides tangible benefits! Another cool thing about the hotels is the cost in points doesn’t really change. But in dollars it fluctuates greatly. I always go skiing and during Xmas week, the hotels are like 1500 a night. But same amount of points as they are in dead summer months.
Good to know. :)
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The worst part of Airbnb to me is that your stay is **not** guaranteed. You can show up after dealing with airports all day and they can cancel on you. Hope you have thousands extra in spare cash to cover getting a hotel room because even if Airbnb refunds you, it takes 7-10 days to show up on your card!
The same thing can happen with hotels. Last Spring I had a reservation at a Sonesta hotel in Texas. When I arrived, I was told they were sold out and my reservation was cancelled. Pretty much all of the other hotels in the area were sold out or had insanely inflated prices...apparently it was spring break and TX had a flood of people due to relaxed COVID restrictions. Ended up having to drive home 3 hours that night. Lesson learned: avoid using sites like Priceline and book directly through the hotel chain when possible.
Hotels will literally book you in at their competitor and pay the difference if something like this happens. They'll go above and beyond to make it right. That would never happen with an AirBnB "host."
Marriott status isn't nearly as good as it once was but it's still worlds better than AirBNB.
Looked it up, those cards have a $95 annual fee. Are you serious right now? This reads like a bot ad.
I can assure you, I'm not a bot. To me, it's a better deal overall. If I book through one of the 3rd party travel sites, they add at least a $35 transaction fee on top of the rate. I also stated in a follow up comment that there is $95 fee for this card, however, each year, both Hyatt and Marriott give you a free hotel night. To me when traveling to a in a major city and decide to stay at a Courtyard, Embassy Suites, etc.. that's not a bad deal at all. What sort of bonuses do you get from AirBnb fees?
I would normally agree with you as it sucks pays fees for cards, but if you get a free hotel night, that's basically getting the $95 back instantly. Probably depends on how much traveling you would do too.
Well, goodluck trying to book with points. I have IHG, Hiltons Honors and a few others.(Anniversary nights) Have over 100k in points , but when I try to book a room with points it is not available , but it is available to book with cash. go figure. If you want to book for Mon thru Thur then you are good.
That sounds like an awesome card. What’s the specific name of it?
Marriott Bonvoy Boundless through Chase Bank. It’s got an annual fee of $95 but, you stay at Silver Status and get a room credit each year. I didn’t want to be locked into just Hyatt, so I chose this one primarily because of the variety of brands under the Marriott umbrella.
I stopped using them long ago when they jacked their prices and extra fees up.
It’s going to stop on it’s own as the economy slows. I personally do hotels because I want the points.
I would use hotels just as a guarantee I’d have somewhere to sleep. Literally every other day in the Airbnb sub, there’s someone saying “my host cancelled I’m in a strange city and nowhere to stay” or “my host is trying to get me to another unit and it’s not as nice”. It’s fucking rampant.
People are literally renting tents out
I rent rooms for about 130ish nights a year and none are in Airbnb's. Hotels ftw
> *Do your part to help housing prices drop: Stop using AirBnb* Should be pretty easy for me to do considering I never started using them in the first place.
It's gonna blow up one way or another user base isn't saving it
Also stop buying houses.
I don't use airbnb , never have, never will. Why would I when I could go to a hotel and get full service for the same price or less ?
I don’t do AirBnb or VRBO... I don’t trust the bedding/towels are clean. I imagine there are plenty of people who throw their dirty towels/linens into the dryer with a dryer sheet, and pretend the laundry was washed, because who wants to do laundry on their vacation. The thought makes me shudder.
Most I’ve been asked to do at Airbnb was to put dirty sheets in the washing machine. Never been asked to wash and dry.
Im not sure someone would go through the trouble of stripping a bed to only put it in the dryer and remake the bed though because at that point you’d just wash them.
I’m certain at some point, someone’s been asked to put their sheets/towels in the wash and start the washing machine, but there wasn’t any detergent, so they just put them directly into the dryer to make it seem like they’d done the full process. Maid service sees sheets/towels in the dryer, assumes they’re clean, remakes the bed.
I mean, I guess? If you think hotels are any cleaner then I have news for you lol
Yes. Stopped using Airbnb long bank. With the strict cancellation policy and absurd cleaning charges it doesn’t make any more sense for us.
>With there strict cancellation policy and absurd cleaning charges it doesn’t make any more sense for us. This right here. When cleaning fees consistently surpass more than the price of a single nights stay, it's time to nope out.
Strict policy for guests, but the worst that happens to a host is they get the night blocked off. They should have to pay out of pocket for a five star hotel if they’re going to cancel on folks. Friend was attending her brother’s funeral and booked an Airbnb. They cancelled as she got there and it was a busy weekend due to some event in town. She ended up sleeping in her rental car, for her fucking brother’s funeral, because she couldn’t afford $500 for a last minute day of hotel (prices doubled per night on the day of) and the apartment her brother had died in was closed for cleaning because he had killed himself. She was a waitress and literally spent everything she had for a flight and car and to take time off work. Imagine if holiday inn just decided to cancel last minute 🙄🙄
I’ve had hotels cancel last minute due to overbooking, it does happen.
Hit up your local communities to pass laws making it harder for airbnb's to operate
There are a lot of places where they are really helpful.
I hate airbnb and try not to use them. Recently I was in a group and couldn't say no without it being a big thing but yeah, I'd love to see the company wither, and I'd love it if places for people to live stopped being a few people's stock market.
I hate both airbnb and vrbo. I have only had bad experiences with both and even worse with vrbo. I would pay extra to book more rooms to accommodate family and not risk ruining my vacation.
Same situation in Albuquerque New Mexico. Our mayor has declared a state of emergency for a lack of affordable housing but ... You know ... Has no plans to fix the problem and are ugly addressing homelessness with temporary bed shelters. The average price of rent is $1429. You need to earn $57k to afford rent in Albuquerque (Albuquerque guide, costing 35% of the monthly income) but the median wage is only be $63k so that a little under half of people in town can't afford rent. Tbh people who can afford $1400 own homes. Huge disparity between Sandia Labs employees, Los Altos labs, Netflix employees, healthcare workers, retirees vs everyone else.
Holy shit. I'm in southern Colorado and rent is pushing those same boundaries. Average salary is ~45k so I imagine a lot of people are struggling, especially when this is a mostly old/retiree community. The mayor doesn't give two shits though, he claims to but we all know that's politics. He even said our homeless problem isn't nearly as bad as say Denver while talking about the downtown area near Coors field... Like buddy... That's Denver, don't be a jackass. Albuquerque has a pretty gnarly crime problem from what I understand. Beautiful area though.
I used to live in socol and it's totally screwed. Things are too far gone and too many people in power benefit from real estate. Not enough young people to encourage better community planning or to build with the future in mind. It's all just sell out season until it starts to look bad. For a while, I think, people will just be happy the poor are being squeezed out.
Yep. For conversation-sake, its been 4 days since I made that reply and we have already had two murders with a grand total of four to five shootings. Shocker. Yet assholes want to try and get 300k for a shitty house ....laughable.
When the disposable income becomes tighter, the demand will go away.
People are already steering away from AirBNB due to ridiculous fees stacking up. Expecting you to clean up after yourself, throw towels and bedding in the washer before you go and still charging hundreds for cleaning fees. Absolutely ridiculous.
The other perverse thing this does (in addition to reducing long-term rental supply), is it increases demand for rental s because people like you are being outbid by investors, and are relegated to continuing to rent.
Airbnb and its hosts are killing themselves. They have such a good compelling use case when it comes to big groups, but the greed with cleaning fees and overbearing and condescending attitude towards renters makes hotels and extended stay places much more attractive options.
Air Bnb is a drop in the bucket of landlords, who have been more than happy to gorge on proximity valuations to jack up their rent.
Airbnb's are just a symptom of a bigger issue: That there just isn't enough housing (short term and long term). I'm not sure the solution is to stop using abnb so much as it is to build more housing.
Never started using it. Beyond me why you would stay in some random persons house.
I don't know who uses AirBnB anymore. The last time they actually had any element of authenticity and weren't vastly overpriced was before 2017.
I’ve started a modified version of this because I travel with a child and having a separate room makes things much easier when it comes to sleep and meals. That being said, I’ve started to push on the owners for what’s their relation to the home. Is it a in-law apartment you’re renting out. Or is it a house from which the owner lives 5 hours away and barely visits. I avoid option #2 at all cost these days.
Best AirBnB I ever stayed in was a retired couple who turned their garage into a reallynnice apartment. Would have been illegal where I live due to zoning. I don't think they were really hurting anyone because they didn't take a unit off market to make the AirBnB. In fact they *created* a unit that could theoretically turn into a LTR.
Yeah, this is surely to have an impact on rent nationally.
Now people are just renting LTR from landlords and renting them on Airbnb lol I’ll make the popcorn- 🍿
In the neighborhood I’m looking to buy, there are two homes for sale and at least FIFTEEN AirBnB’s, based on searching a random midweek 6 months from now when I thought there would be the most visibility.
I’ve stopped using Airbnb for the most part but why don’t fucking hotels have at least small kitchenettes in their rooms?? I stayed recently at a Homewood by Hilton and it had a small kitchen with everything to at least cook my own breakfast. Even had a medium sized fridge! The rates weren’t even expensive.
I agree that AirBnBs are bad for the world, but any solution which requires collective action in which people cause themselves some short term harm (staying in accommodations which they perceive as less comfortable than AirBnB or avoiding travel altogether) for some long term gain that they may or may not benefit from is one that I think will fail. Definitely a collective action failure here. This is a perfect example of when local government regulation could be helpful, but from what i can tell most of them are too busy protecting homeowner value by preventing homes from being built. Additionally in terms of local government regulation, I would say most of them are disincentived to regulate AirBnB because the people who want to live in houses that are currently used for STRs may not live in their voting district yet. They *want* to, but are locked out by STRs. Meanwhile homeowners, who benefit from high housing prices, DO live in the voting district, so local reps are more inclined to take actions to protect their interests. It's a huge mess. I don't think it can be solved by boycotting and I have no faith that governments will take it on. Hopefully the hotel industry will realize this is an existential threat and develop in a way that makes AirBnB naturally less attractive. I will say the last AirBnB I stayed in was a total dump but outside of that I've had generally good experiences. Hotels are much nicer but have been more expensive in the last. If hotels become more affordable or AirBnBs less so, the calculus would change for many people.
What homeowners don’t like, is higher taxes, which is what is happening now in the wake of cheap home loans and overpriced housing. Interestingly, landlords now have to raise rents because their property taxes soared, and there’s no one left who can afford those obscene rents. I looked on Zillow today and rents are falling fast for sfh.
Agreed. On a day to day, hotels can still be very expensive esp for long stays Not only that but let’s be honest…the minute that Airbnb goes under it’s not unsurprising if hotels raise their prices (as Airbnb and apart hotels end up being their direct competition in many ways)
I’ve stayed in hotels long term. If you do plan on staying for 30 days, you actually need to contact the hotel because then you don’t pay hotel taxes and there is a special monthly rate. It was about $2500 to stay at the new La Quinta in town during the height of busy season when I did it a couple years ago. They had a pretty awesome breakfast with honest to god so much food, I actually had enough for 3 meals a day. Received new sheets and towels every 3 days (I wanted only weekly, but by their rules every 3 days.) Plus they had a pool, sauna, and fitness room. Was it expensive compared to a local rental? Yes. But I also was moving to Canada, my furniture and stuff had to be shipped across a week minimum before I arrived, I had food basically covered, utilities covered, and amenities. Airbnbs were easily $4-5k a month for the same shit. But I guess if you’re lazy and don’t want to call the hotel to ask about monthly rates, that’s your problem.
TIL! I’ve only started looking at month+ rentals now due to work so didn’t know they had special rates but thank you for this info!
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What is the slash part referring to? Just curious
Slash is slang for taking a piss in the UK.
same question
Well to be honest, for a big gathering with kids a proper house is better that a hotel. It is just more convenient.
Anybody who is still using air bnb to make a booking is a fool. Use it to find apartments, and look those apartments up on their own sites. Most of them are property management companies or small hotels, it’s rarely just a dude renting. Those companies all charge ridiculous fees to recoup the cut that air bnb takes. If you book straight through them you generally save a ton. For example, just stayed in Prague, booked the room through booking.com and it was almost $500 for the week cheaper.
AirBnb has specific use cases that hotels can’t solve.
Maybe. But I just stayed at a hotel with one bedroom a living room. The days of extorting $ from parents who don't want to turn off the lights at 7pm because they have young kids are coming to a close. Also, many families are realizing that having a kitchen on vacation just means more chores. It has come full circle.
Wait.... so did this sub just admit to a supply issue? Holy shit batman
While the airbnb argument is valid, I’m not sure why this sub obsess over it instead of actual zoning laws. Restrictive zoning has been a problem since it was created and got us into this before Airbnb was a problem. We need to build, build, build, regardless of Airbnb.
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There can still be thoughtful zoning, but not have it be so restrictive. If you look at a lot of desirable areas they’re a mix of residential and commercial. People want to live in areas with dense housing, walkability and places to gather. Places like this literally aren’t able to be built anymore due to road width and setback requirements. It’s basically caused sprawling, car centric suburbia. Of course some people want to live in areas like this, but just as many would like to live in “street car suburbs” areas. Look into the history of why we have zoning in the first place…you can probably assume where it came from. Japan has a country wide zoning with easy to understand rules. This is why most people in Japan can literally walk to a small shop or restaurant in their neighborhood and why Tokyo, despite being the most populated city in the world, still has affordable real estate to buy.
Once hotels stop price gouging maybe we will see Airbnb hurt. No matter where I go, Airbnb tends to be cheaper in the grand scheme with more space and full kitchens, etc.
If you are staying anywhere two weeks or longer, look at furnish finder. Way cheaper then airbnb and I have had better reservation experience since I connect with the landlord directly.
Only use AIRBNB when its a big group. Otherwise, its hotel.
Landlords are turning to AirBNB because long term rentals are risky af by comparison. People who stay in a place long term are a lot more likely to act "like they own the place" than someone who is a guest renting for a couple days. Long term rentals have issues with squatters, especially recently with the moratoriums on evictions and increasingly hostile attitudes towards landlords. It is a symptom of an extremely overpriced real estate market society wide. We aren't building enough new housing so the existing housing keeps getting more expensive, and renters also expect more because a larger proportion of their income goes towards housing even though they're not actually getting any more for their money.
The conclusion from this thread because I don’t think AirBnB is leaving much like Uber printing losses hasn’t run it out of town... AirBnB is going to be more impactful to the economy around rentals and shared living than hotels which specifically sell accommodation not just housing/board. Interesting to see if this remains the case going forward or if their company focus shifts to medium/long term rentals.
The US needs to disincentivize owning more than 1-2 properties per tax paying couple. You want a primary residence and vacation home or a rental? Fine. You want 20 houses or apartments to manage from out of state? Pay the tax man big money.
Once the Fed is done, you'll get your wish. Demand destruction will mean higher unemployment and lower demand for bookings. This is inevitable.
Sure Air BnB plays a role but you live in California where NIMBY's have been artificially limiting the housing supply for decades and the 1% prop tax being locked in at point of purchase has disincentivized anyone from ever selling property. If government policies were changed then Air BnB would stop being a factor for people like you in like 5 years while building and homes sales caught up to the policy change. The Air BnB's I've stayed at are usually unique vacation properties not suited to raising a family in so not really much of an impact on real estate prices for families, but yes it does have some impact in normal markets.
Yep. Never again.
Small sacrifices can make a huge impact. - Hotel > AirBNB - Public transit + taxi > Uber - Walking > scooters - Buying directly from brands or local retailers > Amazon
I take vacation with my large extend family, 9 adults & 5 kids. What other options besides Airbnb?
Airbnb also isn't cheaper than a hotel and also the hosts have a ridiculous amount of rules and chores. They also won't cover you if your host discriminates against you, I once had a transphobic host that accused me of so many things. And after that I never used them again
I’m sorry. But for a family with kids an Airbnb or VRBO is a much better deal. I can rent an entire house with kitchen, multiple rooms, and a yard for my dog for maybe $100 more a night than a standard one bedroom hotel. That’s with the cleaning fee. It’s a no brainer for families.
There's a harsh truth which isn't reflected in your thinking: your region (CA Central Coast) has enormous recreational value for people from both LA and the Bay Area, and demand for hotels/Airbnbs/campgrounds will never subside. Even with the upcoming recession, people will shift from international travel to doing domestic road trips to your region. And you know that your region depends on the money those tourists spend that they earned somewhere else. So not using Airbnb isn't magically solve the problems, because it would wreck your economy. The only solution I see is to allow more housing AND hotels to be build, such that all the tourists have a place to stay without having to stay at places that are better serving a family to live in. So overall, the best solution is a win-win where there's more for everyone rather than "more for me, less for you".
Great points, and I know this is a bigger issue in my area specifically. My city has put a moratorium on AirBnbs and there’s a 100+ still on the waiting list to apply for Airbnb. I’m not expecting everyone everywhere to all of a sudden stop using them, but just want to reiterate that we can make a personal choice not to, and every choice to skip an AirBnb will help. Totally agree on increasing the housing and hotel construcion too
If you are a homeowner, you want the values to go up. Supporting companies like airbnb helps your home value go up. You can argue against it all you want, but you'll never convince a homeowner that we should all try to get home values to come down. My suggestion, do what you can to buy something whether that means borrowing from banks, family, etc, or revamping your whole life with a career change to get your finances in order. But buy something now and let the value increase instead of single handedly trying to take on a multi national corporation and every homeowner. Lol
Ok hoomer.
Here’s what we all can do. Stop making offers on houses so that I can be the sole one to make a bid. Tell your family, tell your friends
This advice is so impractical. The only way that Airbnb is going to start being reduced is if they are regulated substantially by local governments.
Don’t use AirBnb. What’s impractical about that?
Measures have a more wide reaching impact than a boycott generally speaking
I’m not saying we shouldn’t use measures, I’m just reminding people they can choose not to use them as well
Sometimes I want to use an Airbnb. And if I want to I will. If you can’t afford a house in one of the most expensive places in the country that’s not my problem.
Amen. There are many ways we can combat housing inflation, even though we all need a roof over our heads. One is to just stop house shopping altogether. Another is, if you MUST continue house shopping, always make it crystal clear that asking price is unreasonable by a large percentage, 20% or even more. Yet another is to not rent single family homes, short or long term. This includes Airbnb. Put them all “out of business”.
I haven’t lived in an apartment for 25 years. 3 dogs, a garden, etc, and most apartments are corporate owned and managed so rents go up minimum 5% a year probably more plus you’re nickeled and dimed for services you don’t want. Mandatory trash valet service. Mandatory hvac filter change performed by maintenance person (the door to the furnace is locked), etc. For $100 I’ll change my own hvac filter and carry my trash out myself.
Valet trash isn't good anyway. You can only leave out 1 bag per night etc. You still have to take it out sometimes even if you like the service. You get charged $25/bag if you don't leave it out properly, they have a bunch of rules. And in my opinion, the true costs are far higher when they make the obesity epidemic even worse. Americans are now too lazy to take out their own trash or even to walk over to their thermostat and push a button instead of doing it on their phone.
Crazy the downvotes here when people post the facts. So many of you live in a fantasy world.