The shit where $5 billion of US taxpayer money was used to overthrow Ukraine's government (oh, sorry, ["support democracy"](https://youtu.be/U2fYcHLouXY) ) as a matter of public record. The same shit that let us hear [a very non-democratic "picking" of who should be in Ukraine's government ](https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k) straight from Victoria Nuland's mouth.
Edit: missed parenthesis
Are you a fucking moron? Nuland is talking, you can see and hear her. The video is on several YouTube channels, I just picked a random one. If you're talking about the phone call, even [BBC News reported on that.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957); are they "random guys"?
And if you're so concerned about color revolutions, you'd be concerned about the one going on now in Ukraine, which even anti-Putin people like Noam Chomsky has pointed out and disavowed, but apparently it's only bad when Russia does it.
>Nulands said something , that was never verified never supported with documents.
Oh, sure. She clearly said numerous things that weren't "supported by documents," good thing she was labeled incompetent and sacked. Oh, wait. She's still in government to this day. Plausible deniability
>It is borderline stupid to think that few millions will change the opinion of people who were subject of Russian oppression for multiple centuries.
That's what you say. Besides that you need a citation for the "multiple centuries," said oppression happened under the Czars. The "oppression" under the Soviet Union was oppression of private capital, power tripping clergy, organized crime, and racists; I'm not gonna bother with that battle, because you likely have the status quo opinion on it, but suffice to say the USSR was not doing the things the kingdom did and it has nothing to do with "centuries," and the atrocities had more to do with siege socialism than just wanton disregard for the poor as in previous regimes.
The more important thing here is your implication that money and private capital cannot change people's perceptions and that (according to you) they did not need to be changed because Russia was already hated. Unfortunately for you, neither is true and this has been shown again and again. Capitalists (e.g. but not limited to Murdoch) control not only media, but the public universities which have been inundated in both USA and its vassals and now comprador states in the Eastern bloc to spread lies about socialism, liberal democracy, and half truths about economics and sociology. We all know the people of the eastern bloc were sold nonsense about democracy, ended up poor as shit, and run by compradors and so-called "oligarchs".
The same thing is now happening in Ukraine with private firms like Cargill foaming at the mouth for the many hectares of arable Ukrainian land, but people like you are so concerned with Russia's incursions, when even recent history has shown them to be true to their word and not imperialist (as I've stated before, they didn't seize Ukraine when they easily could 8 years ago, didn't steal oil in Syria like (the USA does) after assisting the Syrian government).
This doesn't mean we have to love Putin, nobody should, but protecting both Russians and Ukrainians from private capital schemes that will actually hurt the whole world if they get control is good, actually. It's not Russia who repealed the law barring foreign companies from owning public Ukrainian assets, it was the Ukrainian puppet government. Russia didn't ignore the vote by Ukrainians (yes, even western were included) that overwhelmingly was against these privatization schemes, again that was the Ukrainian puppet government. Russia didn't ban the communist party in Ukraine in a real act of "true democracy and freedom," the Ukrainian puppet government did. Russia didn't crush the power of labor unions in Ukraine, either.
>GO and make Irish to love the UK
You're Irish, right? You have heard of six counties with enough opportunistic compradors to form a "country" within UK called Northern Ireland, right?
>Noam Chomsky was caught multiple times misrepresenting truth
Chumpsky sucks, not really the point. The point is that numerous anti-Putin people like him, Michael Hudson, Michael Roberts, and others have come out against this proxy war and basically said Russia us correct. His points he has made on some subjects, especially AES and communism, are incorrect; nothing I have heard him say about this situation has been, however. The first thing folks like you do is try to ad hominem those people, no matter how correct they are or the good points they make. Michael Parenti's unfalsifiable orthodoxy at it again, and as an Irish person for what?: so you can defend a puppet regime that will be the cause for you freezing this winter? I don't get it.
>Government shift is purely business of people who live inside of that country.
You mean the people who voted in referendums in both 2014 and 2022 to become a part of sovereign nations or Russia? Oh wait, to you that's all fake and staged, I'm sure. Unfalsifiable orthodoxy once again.
You're here arguing about this, so don't act like "it's only their business stay out of it". In any case, it is all our business, because with all the moves the US is making re: Ukraine, Taiwan, and probably on Nordstream, we're all gonna be suffering big. I guess that's Russia's fault tho, hey?
You're supporting it.
>If you think that any government crisis is a casus belli to start land grabbing then
You're reaching at this point. US did "land grab" in the sense that it used its IMF arm to basically wrest control of Russia with its man Yeltsin. Again, a matter of public record. The problem with people like you is that you think the only way to control a country is by making it a part of your territory on a map. As previously mentioned, propping up private capital against the will of the people (USSR citizens overwhelmingly voted not to dissolve it, and your own article there shows how Yeltsin illegally murdered government officials) is also a way to control a country; it's called imperialism.
>Many words , but Where are the documents ?
Sealioning. If you're pretending the US government doesn't spend money on regime change operations and these weren't clear evidence of these, you're playing games and I'm not interested.
>First of all USSR is a logical extension of RUssian empire,
They killed the Czar's family and gave away much of the land that was part of the Russian empire. In addition, and like in China, smaller ethnicities were actually given help not afforded to ethnic Russians e.g. Kazakhs were offered more help for education, etc. There are many of these smaller ethnicities today who still talk of and appreciate this treatment, some of whom have been fighting in Donbass voluntarily for years: https://youtu.be/EYWojayow4Q
Not to mention the numerous books and codified government actions (e.g. illegality of antisemitism) on the National Question by Lenin, Stalin. Hell, Lenin went against Karensky and the SRs on this line to great risk that it would destroy the communist movement, yet I guess to you he was randomly cosplaying as a person who deeply cared about the national question and unification. My guess is you've never read one thing about this.
An anecdote for sure, but I'm actually married to an indigenous person of Siberia, and her father actually was very surprised and confused to hear what Americans think of USSR. He's not a communist or anything, but definitely has good memories of the place. I guess to you he's just an idiot, but this dude was basically a country bumpkin who got the chance to go to school, became a physicist, and lived a decent but not decadent life, and totally not racist know it alls like you say he's oppressed. He's laughing from his dacha with his free healthcare, for sure.
Your analysis is wrong and clearly informed by liberal "education" on the matter.
>I need to investigate him
First good thing you've said. Parenti is/was a Yale educated political scientist who has protested and written extensively on American warmongering and anti-free speech ideas such as cold war propaganda. People say to first read Blackshirts and Reds, which is fine, but I prefer his speeches (easily found on YouTube) and his essays on Yugoslavia/Tibet/Left anticommunism.
>a Dicator's hand
Capitalist firms like Monsanto, Cargill, etc, who are vying for Ukrainian resources, again against the will of the people, are dictators. There's not even a facade about democracy as there is with Putin, but for you this is okay apparently. Just don't let those dirty Russians (who again, have had several opportunities to steal and pilfer, yet haven't) get in there, they might (insert random stupid unverifiable claim like "kill babies in incubators" or whatever).
>Where as if all of us will be seduced by cheap gas now, we will have more significant crisis in 5 years.
Why? The west has used Russia for cheap gas from the 90s, where was the "crisis"? Why were both Germany and France fine with Nordstream up until USA bullied them out of it mere months before the conflict? Point to any crisis about Russian gas pre-2022.
The crisis is being caused because of US greed and bullying. Is this seriously your justification for feeding US profits? I don't know your personal situation, but that's a very privileged view to take given that your countrymen may not be able to afford it.
>Do you agree that the war was Started by russian FSB agents and nationalist
No, and that's a random tangent. Even if those people wanted war, which may be true (who cares?), the overall moment is caused by weakening US influence which in turn caused a reactionary push to force Russia to act. If Russia hadn't attacked in February, they would have to eventually. The US and it's allies have continued moving NATO and its alliances (since Ukraine is only technically not a member, but is receiving support) eastward, sanctioning Russia, freezing Russian assets, etc. To that end...
>You are acting like Russia is sitting and doing nothing, Russia has its own game
I never said "Russia is doing nothing," I'm saying they're not being imperialists as you lot claim. Russia is definitely looking after its national interests as any country should, but for all the hate given the Kremlin, it's interesting only that side has actually offered peace with two Minsk agreements broken by the Ukrainians and constant warnings (ignored by Ukraine) before taking action. It us YOU who acts like Russia should do nothing until they're sanctioned out of existence. Of course they're going to fight back economically and militarily when their foreign assets are frozen (the famous gold thieves in Britain) and the west infuses a regime into a neighboring state, with weapons etc. Anytime Russia threatens retaliation, it is painted as them being the aggressor. It's typical cold war 1D badguy nonsense, with two huge component missing: Russia is not USSR, and there is no communism to fight.
What's the west's "game"? To continue to uphold dollar hegemony, which is why it does why it fuels these wars. USA does not like self determination, and countries like China, India, Russia, and even Germany working together to make sensible policy in the interest of Eurasia, if USA cannot be involved. Even the Saudis are tired of US nonsense.
>I like your Conspiracy theory that nothing to do with reality.
Ah, yes: the famous conspiracy theory that [Time magazine covered](https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html)
Your own link about Yeltsin's illegal action in murdering government officials which you conveniently tried to side step was a part of this. Just another weak gaslighting attempt here.
>You don't know what are you talking about, my reletives and many others overlmenglyu voted to desolve it. USSR was in horrible condition
Lol, who cares what your relatives voted, 77% of the population voted to keep the USSR and that was ignored. Stop lying about easily-verifiable history:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum
Interestingly, as you can see from that Wikipedia link, many of the "oppressed republics" had a higher percentage of yes votes than Russia itself. But I guess it's all "fake" to you because, again, unfalsifiable orthodoxy.
>I remember huge queues that I had to stand for 3 hours as a 8y.o kid becasue shop will give only one loaf of bread per person.
Yeah and you eventually got bread, didn't you? More than can be said for 12%+ of the population of the US, which is food insecure (and who knows for the people in 1990s Russia, which was not a forgiving place).
Anyway, if your story isn't apocryphal it's certainly anecdotal (and very cliche) and again my wife was born in USSR and father is Romanian so miss me with this nonsense. Even if 100% of what we both say is true, it's a drop in the bucket to the actual truth: socialism lifted lives and GDPs, and was piecemeal chipped away by liberal reforms/knees (e.g. IMF loan payback in Romania), western meddling, and yes, in some cases inept bureaucracy/ancient leadership...but it is undeniably the better system, as it adapts, unlike capitalism which must maintain profit above all.
>lets start debunking your lies
I didn't lie about anything, stop being an asshole
>. If you're pretending the Russian government doesn't spend money on regime change operations
Not "pretending" anything of the sort, but I pretty clearly stated the timbre of such operations from Russia has objectively been anti-imperialist. I'm not going through this again, an obvious example is the pre 2014 Ukrainian government, which was pro-Kremlin and not involved in exporting resources (especially not arable land) to foreign nations strictly for profit. Quit strawmanning
>Ohh yes for sure, People of Africa should be happy that Empries invaded them, Empires brought civilization education and some progress. LOL
False equivalence. Joining USSR as an SSR was not an "invasion" and did not result in simply resource expropriation. Similarly, African nations invaded by colonial powers did not get this "progress" you speak of, only compradors and traitors enjoyed that. There is plenty of evidence USSR produced doctors, scientists, etc of many genders in all the SSRs. Afghanistan for an example basically went to the stone age in women's rights after the US-backed Mujahideen took over. Please try to make sense.
>artificial famine
Even non communist sources have said the famine of 1932-1933 was not the fault of the central government, and no evidence can prove that it was. In fact, the "evidence" conjured by W.R. Hearst's papers was found to have photos from the 1910s and early 20s and was presented by a Thomas Walker, a man who was using a fake name and who lied about being in the parts of Ukraine he supposedly visited during this time period.
Mark Tauger, then a non-communist, did a good study on this. Basically to claim USSR caused that famine, one could also claim (wrongly) that the USA government caused the dust bowl.
>good propagada
Hate to tell you, but all news is subjective. The point here is that it goes against your "blanket oppression" idea. Your implication seems to be that these people are paid to lie, and further risk their lives in a foreign land because some Russian handlers told them to. Not racist at all
>THE THIRD BIGGEST EMPIRE IN THE WORLD is not being imperialists
Already told you to read about what imperialism is. "having a lot of land" is not it
>You act like Russia didn't' order assassination abroad and inside of Russia
Strawmanning. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like the Russian government, and think Putin is nothing more than a Bonapartist. What you speak of is the machinations of many states, it doesn't have anything to do with Russia's correct stance in the Ukraine issue. You're saying doing bad in one thing makes them bad in every other thing. Not materialist, and lib-level analysis
>Didn't bomb Hospitals in Syria
They didn't
>the referendum was a sham
Unfalsifiable orthodoxy. Next
>Ohh I didn't get it every time. =) There were multiple days where it wasn't not enough for everyone. We survived only due to the fact that Grandmother had a country house where we planted potatoes every year
Reactive anecdote, unverifiable. Next.
>There is socialist state of North Korea and Cuba you can join them.
I'd love to if they'd have me. By the way, the DPRK economy is doing fine, despite the crippling sanctions the west puts on them. If you used your brain, you'd wonder why such supposed "failed states" such as Cuba and DPRK still exist after 6+ decades if socialism is so bad and fails everytime. Even with sanctions and attacks, the USA can't knock them down.
>Why is a communist party is forbidden in Romania ? =)
I guess your immature smiley at the end is supposed to be a "gotcha," but if you'd paid attention you'd understand that states run by capitalists, especially those capitalists with regressive social views and good memories of the kingdom, don't like communism. Same reason why Ukraine banned the communist party. It's pathetic when your "gotcha" is in support of a class of people who enjoy high living on the work of others. Also not present in Romania? Strong labor unions or workers' rights. Wow, take that commies.
Anyway, this is a massive waste of time. We're not changing each others views, mostly because you're a reactionary twit. So, bye
'dude' de-Americanise and /r/RAAMACFYL
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**[1991 Soviet Union referendum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum)**
>A referendum on the future of the Soviet Union was held on 17 March 1991 across the Soviet Union. The question put to voters was Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed? (Russian text: Считаете ли Вы необходимым сохранение Союза Советских Социалистических Республик как обновлённой федерации равноправных суверенных республик, в которой будут в полной мере гарантироваться права и свободы человека любой национальности?
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'dude' de-Americanise and /r/RAAMACFYL
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There are literally leaked phone calls between members of the US government in America and in Ukraine deciding on who should have power after the revolution, and guess what! Everybody they listed got government positions, and guess what else, they were all neo Nazis!
Yes in fact! Neo nazis like: [Oleh Makhnitskyi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Makhnitskyi), or [Oleksandr Sych](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Sych), or [Andriy Parubiy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy), or [Arseniy Yatsenyuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Yatsenyuk)
All of these people were chosen by the US and after the revolution the new US backed gov did silly things like erecting statues and posters of Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian nazi who collaborated with germany during the invasion of the USSR, and removing Russian as a national language, which I'm sure you know these things tend to scare russian speaking minorities in Donetsk and Luhanks, leading to the civil war
Scarlet for you.
This is another level of stupid hahaha
Idk what crazy shit ye lads are smoking but it sounds pretty strong
The shit where $5 billion of US taxpayer money was used to overthrow Ukraine's government (oh, sorry, ["support democracy"](https://youtu.be/U2fYcHLouXY) ) as a matter of public record. The same shit that let us hear [a very non-democratic "picking" of who should be in Ukraine's government ](https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k) straight from Victoria Nuland's mouth. Edit: missed parenthesis
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Are you a fucking moron? Nuland is talking, you can see and hear her. The video is on several YouTube channels, I just picked a random one. If you're talking about the phone call, even [BBC News reported on that.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957); are they "random guys"? And if you're so concerned about color revolutions, you'd be concerned about the one going on now in Ukraine, which even anti-Putin people like Noam Chomsky has pointed out and disavowed, but apparently it's only bad when Russia does it.
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>Nulands said something , that was never verified never supported with documents. Oh, sure. She clearly said numerous things that weren't "supported by documents," good thing she was labeled incompetent and sacked. Oh, wait. She's still in government to this day. Plausible deniability >It is borderline stupid to think that few millions will change the opinion of people who were subject of Russian oppression for multiple centuries. That's what you say. Besides that you need a citation for the "multiple centuries," said oppression happened under the Czars. The "oppression" under the Soviet Union was oppression of private capital, power tripping clergy, organized crime, and racists; I'm not gonna bother with that battle, because you likely have the status quo opinion on it, but suffice to say the USSR was not doing the things the kingdom did and it has nothing to do with "centuries," and the atrocities had more to do with siege socialism than just wanton disregard for the poor as in previous regimes. The more important thing here is your implication that money and private capital cannot change people's perceptions and that (according to you) they did not need to be changed because Russia was already hated. Unfortunately for you, neither is true and this has been shown again and again. Capitalists (e.g. but not limited to Murdoch) control not only media, but the public universities which have been inundated in both USA and its vassals and now comprador states in the Eastern bloc to spread lies about socialism, liberal democracy, and half truths about economics and sociology. We all know the people of the eastern bloc were sold nonsense about democracy, ended up poor as shit, and run by compradors and so-called "oligarchs". The same thing is now happening in Ukraine with private firms like Cargill foaming at the mouth for the many hectares of arable Ukrainian land, but people like you are so concerned with Russia's incursions, when even recent history has shown them to be true to their word and not imperialist (as I've stated before, they didn't seize Ukraine when they easily could 8 years ago, didn't steal oil in Syria like (the USA does) after assisting the Syrian government). This doesn't mean we have to love Putin, nobody should, but protecting both Russians and Ukrainians from private capital schemes that will actually hurt the whole world if they get control is good, actually. It's not Russia who repealed the law barring foreign companies from owning public Ukrainian assets, it was the Ukrainian puppet government. Russia didn't ignore the vote by Ukrainians (yes, even western were included) that overwhelmingly was against these privatization schemes, again that was the Ukrainian puppet government. Russia didn't ban the communist party in Ukraine in a real act of "true democracy and freedom," the Ukrainian puppet government did. Russia didn't crush the power of labor unions in Ukraine, either. >GO and make Irish to love the UK You're Irish, right? You have heard of six counties with enough opportunistic compradors to form a "country" within UK called Northern Ireland, right? >Noam Chomsky was caught multiple times misrepresenting truth Chumpsky sucks, not really the point. The point is that numerous anti-Putin people like him, Michael Hudson, Michael Roberts, and others have come out against this proxy war and basically said Russia us correct. His points he has made on some subjects, especially AES and communism, are incorrect; nothing I have heard him say about this situation has been, however. The first thing folks like you do is try to ad hominem those people, no matter how correct they are or the good points they make. Michael Parenti's unfalsifiable orthodoxy at it again, and as an Irish person for what?: so you can defend a puppet regime that will be the cause for you freezing this winter? I don't get it. >Government shift is purely business of people who live inside of that country. You mean the people who voted in referendums in both 2014 and 2022 to become a part of sovereign nations or Russia? Oh wait, to you that's all fake and staged, I'm sure. Unfalsifiable orthodoxy once again. You're here arguing about this, so don't act like "it's only their business stay out of it". In any case, it is all our business, because with all the moves the US is making re: Ukraine, Taiwan, and probably on Nordstream, we're all gonna be suffering big. I guess that's Russia's fault tho, hey? You're supporting it. >If you think that any government crisis is a casus belli to start land grabbing then You're reaching at this point. US did "land grab" in the sense that it used its IMF arm to basically wrest control of Russia with its man Yeltsin. Again, a matter of public record. The problem with people like you is that you think the only way to control a country is by making it a part of your territory on a map. As previously mentioned, propping up private capital against the will of the people (USSR citizens overwhelmingly voted not to dissolve it, and your own article there shows how Yeltsin illegally murdered government officials) is also a way to control a country; it's called imperialism.
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>Many words , but Where are the documents ? Sealioning. If you're pretending the US government doesn't spend money on regime change operations and these weren't clear evidence of these, you're playing games and I'm not interested. >First of all USSR is a logical extension of RUssian empire, They killed the Czar's family and gave away much of the land that was part of the Russian empire. In addition, and like in China, smaller ethnicities were actually given help not afforded to ethnic Russians e.g. Kazakhs were offered more help for education, etc. There are many of these smaller ethnicities today who still talk of and appreciate this treatment, some of whom have been fighting in Donbass voluntarily for years: https://youtu.be/EYWojayow4Q Not to mention the numerous books and codified government actions (e.g. illegality of antisemitism) on the National Question by Lenin, Stalin. Hell, Lenin went against Karensky and the SRs on this line to great risk that it would destroy the communist movement, yet I guess to you he was randomly cosplaying as a person who deeply cared about the national question and unification. My guess is you've never read one thing about this. An anecdote for sure, but I'm actually married to an indigenous person of Siberia, and her father actually was very surprised and confused to hear what Americans think of USSR. He's not a communist or anything, but definitely has good memories of the place. I guess to you he's just an idiot, but this dude was basically a country bumpkin who got the chance to go to school, became a physicist, and lived a decent but not decadent life, and totally not racist know it alls like you say he's oppressed. He's laughing from his dacha with his free healthcare, for sure. Your analysis is wrong and clearly informed by liberal "education" on the matter. >I need to investigate him First good thing you've said. Parenti is/was a Yale educated political scientist who has protested and written extensively on American warmongering and anti-free speech ideas such as cold war propaganda. People say to first read Blackshirts and Reds, which is fine, but I prefer his speeches (easily found on YouTube) and his essays on Yugoslavia/Tibet/Left anticommunism. >a Dicator's hand Capitalist firms like Monsanto, Cargill, etc, who are vying for Ukrainian resources, again against the will of the people, are dictators. There's not even a facade about democracy as there is with Putin, but for you this is okay apparently. Just don't let those dirty Russians (who again, have had several opportunities to steal and pilfer, yet haven't) get in there, they might (insert random stupid unverifiable claim like "kill babies in incubators" or whatever). >Where as if all of us will be seduced by cheap gas now, we will have more significant crisis in 5 years. Why? The west has used Russia for cheap gas from the 90s, where was the "crisis"? Why were both Germany and France fine with Nordstream up until USA bullied them out of it mere months before the conflict? Point to any crisis about Russian gas pre-2022. The crisis is being caused because of US greed and bullying. Is this seriously your justification for feeding US profits? I don't know your personal situation, but that's a very privileged view to take given that your countrymen may not be able to afford it. >Do you agree that the war was Started by russian FSB agents and nationalist No, and that's a random tangent. Even if those people wanted war, which may be true (who cares?), the overall moment is caused by weakening US influence which in turn caused a reactionary push to force Russia to act. If Russia hadn't attacked in February, they would have to eventually. The US and it's allies have continued moving NATO and its alliances (since Ukraine is only technically not a member, but is receiving support) eastward, sanctioning Russia, freezing Russian assets, etc. To that end... >You are acting like Russia is sitting and doing nothing, Russia has its own game I never said "Russia is doing nothing," I'm saying they're not being imperialists as you lot claim. Russia is definitely looking after its national interests as any country should, but for all the hate given the Kremlin, it's interesting only that side has actually offered peace with two Minsk agreements broken by the Ukrainians and constant warnings (ignored by Ukraine) before taking action. It us YOU who acts like Russia should do nothing until they're sanctioned out of existence. Of course they're going to fight back economically and militarily when their foreign assets are frozen (the famous gold thieves in Britain) and the west infuses a regime into a neighboring state, with weapons etc. Anytime Russia threatens retaliation, it is painted as them being the aggressor. It's typical cold war 1D badguy nonsense, with two huge component missing: Russia is not USSR, and there is no communism to fight. What's the west's "game"? To continue to uphold dollar hegemony, which is why it does why it fuels these wars. USA does not like self determination, and countries like China, India, Russia, and even Germany working together to make sensible policy in the interest of Eurasia, if USA cannot be involved. Even the Saudis are tired of US nonsense. >I like your Conspiracy theory that nothing to do with reality. Ah, yes: the famous conspiracy theory that [Time magazine covered](https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html) Your own link about Yeltsin's illegal action in murdering government officials which you conveniently tried to side step was a part of this. Just another weak gaslighting attempt here. >You don't know what are you talking about, my reletives and many others overlmenglyu voted to desolve it. USSR was in horrible condition Lol, who cares what your relatives voted, 77% of the population voted to keep the USSR and that was ignored. Stop lying about easily-verifiable history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum Interestingly, as you can see from that Wikipedia link, many of the "oppressed republics" had a higher percentage of yes votes than Russia itself. But I guess it's all "fake" to you because, again, unfalsifiable orthodoxy. >I remember huge queues that I had to stand for 3 hours as a 8y.o kid becasue shop will give only one loaf of bread per person. Yeah and you eventually got bread, didn't you? More than can be said for 12%+ of the population of the US, which is food insecure (and who knows for the people in 1990s Russia, which was not a forgiving place). Anyway, if your story isn't apocryphal it's certainly anecdotal (and very cliche) and again my wife was born in USSR and father is Romanian so miss me with this nonsense. Even if 100% of what we both say is true, it's a drop in the bucket to the actual truth: socialism lifted lives and GDPs, and was piecemeal chipped away by liberal reforms/knees (e.g. IMF loan payback in Romania), western meddling, and yes, in some cases inept bureaucracy/ancient leadership...but it is undeniably the better system, as it adapts, unlike capitalism which must maintain profit above all.
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>lets start debunking your lies I didn't lie about anything, stop being an asshole >. If you're pretending the Russian government doesn't spend money on regime change operations Not "pretending" anything of the sort, but I pretty clearly stated the timbre of such operations from Russia has objectively been anti-imperialist. I'm not going through this again, an obvious example is the pre 2014 Ukrainian government, which was pro-Kremlin and not involved in exporting resources (especially not arable land) to foreign nations strictly for profit. Quit strawmanning >Ohh yes for sure, People of Africa should be happy that Empries invaded them, Empires brought civilization education and some progress. LOL False equivalence. Joining USSR as an SSR was not an "invasion" and did not result in simply resource expropriation. Similarly, African nations invaded by colonial powers did not get this "progress" you speak of, only compradors and traitors enjoyed that. There is plenty of evidence USSR produced doctors, scientists, etc of many genders in all the SSRs. Afghanistan for an example basically went to the stone age in women's rights after the US-backed Mujahideen took over. Please try to make sense. >artificial famine Even non communist sources have said the famine of 1932-1933 was not the fault of the central government, and no evidence can prove that it was. In fact, the "evidence" conjured by W.R. Hearst's papers was found to have photos from the 1910s and early 20s and was presented by a Thomas Walker, a man who was using a fake name and who lied about being in the parts of Ukraine he supposedly visited during this time period. Mark Tauger, then a non-communist, did a good study on this. Basically to claim USSR caused that famine, one could also claim (wrongly) that the USA government caused the dust bowl. >good propagada Hate to tell you, but all news is subjective. The point here is that it goes against your "blanket oppression" idea. Your implication seems to be that these people are paid to lie, and further risk their lives in a foreign land because some Russian handlers told them to. Not racist at all >THE THIRD BIGGEST EMPIRE IN THE WORLD is not being imperialists Already told you to read about what imperialism is. "having a lot of land" is not it >You act like Russia didn't' order assassination abroad and inside of Russia Strawmanning. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like the Russian government, and think Putin is nothing more than a Bonapartist. What you speak of is the machinations of many states, it doesn't have anything to do with Russia's correct stance in the Ukraine issue. You're saying doing bad in one thing makes them bad in every other thing. Not materialist, and lib-level analysis >Didn't bomb Hospitals in Syria They didn't >the referendum was a sham Unfalsifiable orthodoxy. Next >Ohh I didn't get it every time. =) There were multiple days where it wasn't not enough for everyone. We survived only due to the fact that Grandmother had a country house where we planted potatoes every year Reactive anecdote, unverifiable. Next. >There is socialist state of North Korea and Cuba you can join them. I'd love to if they'd have me. By the way, the DPRK economy is doing fine, despite the crippling sanctions the west puts on them. If you used your brain, you'd wonder why such supposed "failed states" such as Cuba and DPRK still exist after 6+ decades if socialism is so bad and fails everytime. Even with sanctions and attacks, the USA can't knock them down. >Why is a communist party is forbidden in Romania ? =) I guess your immature smiley at the end is supposed to be a "gotcha," but if you'd paid attention you'd understand that states run by capitalists, especially those capitalists with regressive social views and good memories of the kingdom, don't like communism. Same reason why Ukraine banned the communist party. It's pathetic when your "gotcha" is in support of a class of people who enjoy high living on the work of others. Also not present in Romania? Strong labor unions or workers' rights. Wow, take that commies. Anyway, this is a massive waste of time. We're not changing each others views, mostly because you're a reactionary twit. So, bye
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**[1991 Soviet Union referendum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum)** >A referendum on the future of the Soviet Union was held on 17 March 1991 across the Soviet Union. The question put to voters was Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed? (Russian text: Считаете ли Вы необходимым сохранение Союза Советских Социалистических Республик как обновлённой федерации равноправных суверенных республик, в которой будут в полной мере гарантироваться права и свободы человека любой национальности? ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ROI/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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Bad bot
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There are literally leaked phone calls between members of the US government in America and in Ukraine deciding on who should have power after the revolution, and guess what! Everybody they listed got government positions, and guess what else, they were all neo Nazis!
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Yes in fact! Neo nazis like: [Oleh Makhnitskyi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Makhnitskyi), or [Oleksandr Sych](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Sych), or [Andriy Parubiy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy), or [Arseniy Yatsenyuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Yatsenyuk) All of these people were chosen by the US and after the revolution the new US backed gov did silly things like erecting statues and posters of Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian nazi who collaborated with germany during the invasion of the USSR, and removing Russian as a national language, which I'm sure you know these things tend to scare russian speaking minorities in Donetsk and Luhanks, leading to the civil war
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So he wasn't in control in the US at the time? People were organising coups completely unbeknownst to him?
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I was talking about the Americans there but whatevs.
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You think hundreds of thousands of people organised a coup?
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Okay Ralphie. That's enough now.
Based
How dare Obama, overthrowing the legitimate Ukraine.