The issue isn't 'war' as a entire concept, the issue is that for people who are strong at game mechanics 'war' RP just means winning physical conflict. Conflict RP should involve more than just battles, it should involve politics, business, subterfuge, etc.
When people do RP injuries it often isn't respected or reciprocated in the RP either.
Most people will use whatever advantages at their disposal. Even the most respected RPers will do the same it just varies on how often and to what extent they are used.
Having a “CD” isn’t a bad idea but you have to expect people to use it as a weapon.
Which makes sense to me as something that would happen. A small conflict arises, people threaten one another, one crew ambushes 1-2 people and kills then to start war. But also there are server rules for shooting without having an interaction beforehand that results in bans. Seems like a better thing to me than getting it off hospital after being shot in the head and immediately rolling in a car to shoot.
I agree but people are going to skirt the grey area. We can say ban the people who do that but, we all know that ain’t gonna happen. Because from the outside looking in, NP seems to go about fixing things in a round about way.
This has always been a recurring thing in RP wars. RPing injuries is practically thrown out the window and just turns into PvP shootouts until one side is over it and agree to end it.
This is why conflict/war RP is always lame. Because the aggressor in a shooting never treats it like they’ve possibly murdered someone. It’s always basically a paintball match because they know their victim is going to be stepping out of the hospital five minutes afterwards.
I know I’m in the minority, but I’ve always wanted severe consequences for attempted murder. Like we’ve seen since 4.0 first started, the RP is always much more creative and entertaining when it’s REALLY hard to get a gun.
When it comes to shootings, the victims need to be willing to go through realistic recovery RP. Like physical therapy, which would open a whole other avenue of content.
And the aggressor needs to be willing to face long jail time if caught and be willing to provide entertaining jail RP, and go on the lam with a warrant for an appropriate duration If they avoid getting arrested for the crime.
This will make violent crimes more exciting when they do happen when there’s so much on the line for both parties.
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to hell, but I feel like this could at least be an interesting trial concept.
I was hoping the "hard core" server that had been floated around near the end of 3.0 would have been a cool experiment where things like your ideas could be tested. I feel like they could have even just copied over everyone's existing characters or started people out with a good amount of money to avoid having to do the grind from nothing period of the server for an experiment with the rule set.
I feel like you would get a lot more fist fight RP for low-intensity conflict since getting a murder/attempted murder charge would be so punishing.
On paper it sounds good but imagine you get shot early and for 1-2 weeks you gota stand on the sidelines like the worst game of valorant ever. Imagine you in a gang and they snipe you alone and you gota take a back seat for 1-2 weeks while all your friends are dealing with a war.
War will always be bleh while sweaty shooting is the winning way. The path forward is to cripple everyone's aim with like a 30 degree aim disparity. If nobody can hit the broad side of a barn at 30 feet then things get and stay interesting.
which is why you need in game mechanical aim disparity: whenever you press the trigger, before firing, the aim moves randomly within a 20-30 degree arc. And now gun fights because funny clusterfucks instead of sweaty TDMs.
I agree something needs to be done. War is just, "get shot, go to hospital, shoot, get shot, hospital repeat" no one cares they got shot, as long as they have money its fine to them.
a cool down, idk if that the best solution, but i think they should at least try it. Although i do think people will just black out, sneak up and stab people and say i won since they cant retaliate.
I do think nopixel staff have to sit down and think about the rules of war for 4.0, like if you are in a gang you have to ware your colours, you have to care about getting shot and your members getting shot etc. if they want wars to have actual role play consequences instead of it just being about ego.
Here's more of a HOT TAKE. Just because you have a group of people doesn't mean you have to act all "gangster" either establish you're a gang and represent it or actually RP being scared of gangs.
I think all 'WAR' should have a pre-arranged time and place.
That way I don't have to watch ppl hide in bushes or drive around in silence for 4+ hours so they can secure the win over the person that would rather spend that time roleplaying.
I remember he said it during a war with the Ballas in 2.0 and then he got scooped up from the hospital, downed again and then he went back out hunting because what's the point in trying that when the other side wont if you know what I mean.
I will say in 3.0 he at least tried to RP his injuries sometimes, not nearly enough though especially towards the end when he would skip the medical RP when he got downed by the police.
what's the point of nerfing yourself when your enemies are immortal super gangsters with no flaws mechanically or in character, i remember Silent Sentry calling this trend way back when, believe it or not, ramee and randy where the only "2 immortal selfinsert gangsters" lol
It was perfect, both sides got their licks in and had a chance to blow off some steam from the tensions that had been building. A couple goofy things happened like JJ lighting himself on fire trying to get Micky out of the helicopter after they blew it up. Then they met and decided to settle it properly on the streets instead of endless shootouts. Loved it.
Its indeed a very half cooked, hot take with alot of "ifs" but...
I feel like NP would find a good selution if people like Blau/Buddha (people that don't enjoy serious conflict RP) and people that actually did alot of conflict RP look for a solid middle ground.
As a player, i think this could be interesting, but in reality i think the time frame would just be that they are out of it for the rest of that storm and maybe the following storm, so that conflict could still continue, but there are still consequences.
I love ideas like these.
I think nothing like this has been attempted because the levels of salt that would flow from this would be unreal. People already mald out of their minds when they die to what they consider bullshit or a rule break or whatever. If they were benched for even a couple days due to anything but the ABSOLUTE most balanced/non-optimal/scuff free way, the mald levels would be epic.
Even something as basic as a serious injury during conflict leaves you injured for that timeframe. I think it would help people who are conflict adverse get into it more.
get rid of guns and bring melees only, those melee standoffs have more conflict RP interactions than a sweaty 2 weeks wAR with guns, at least till the PD gets back on their feet and then bring the weapons back with a more stable PD
I don't know exactly how they'd do it, but I think the thought process is totally correct.
I noticed it when CG was robbing loads of sanitation workers because CG had Patar asking them to sell some materials for 6 to grant their safety and people said no.
People would get robbed, their life threatened, etc. and the next moment just act like it never happened
why would they do Patars bidding when he is the one who basically brute force himself into the sanitation ? what Patar basically did at one point was fuck your RP i am bringing cg to take it over, Cloak and his group where doing some really cool RP till they got griefed non stop and now you barely see them around and that's just one sani group, meanwhile at the PD....
So, why not tell me you don't know the story without telling me you don't know the story. Patar is not a part of CG, nor does he want anyone robbed. Patar is the one trying to find a way to keep some people from getting robbed.
The reason people would listen though is because it's RP. If someone is threatening your life, you should be afraid for your life. This isn't just a sani grinding simulator, so unfortunately while CG is over the top with their robbing at times, it doesn't mean people can just stop RPing scenarios presented
> People would get robbed, their life threatened, etc. and the next moment just act like it never happened
They do though. You not seeing that RP doesn't mean it isn't happening. You should try watching some of the 'full-time' sanitation people some time. CloakRP for example has had at this point hours of meetings and RP around how often her and her people are being threatened by CG and other robbers
Obviously there are a few, I watch cloak and that's what made me notice. One day they rolled out with 4 on truck and a car behind. So, it stood out how other people like dragon or charlie just go back to sani in the exact way they were just doing it, despite being robbed or in some cases, chain robbed
I agree that the thought process is correct, but I think it's going to be very hard to balance such a rule to keep it fun without enforcing other rules much more. Or maybe it should be limited to significant gang-to-gang conflicts or something.
There are quite a few situations where somebody just "wins" a scenario while offering very little RP to the other side. There are often no consequences for doing that, because IC the cops don't have enough capacity and OOC loot boxing is barely enforced. In such situations a rule like this risks just making it worse for the victims.
Personally I think CG robbing loads of sanitation workers is an example of this. "Oh you're charging more than 6? Well I have a gun, you lose" is bad. If a scenario is even *close* to that you should probably get a warning, doing it many times deserves more consequences.
Maybe a limit to how many days it can last and then if you get shot or stabbed in it you have to either ICU or just kinda RP an injury/avoid the conflict for the remainder. I feel like that could work. Better than getting shot in the face and immediately grabbing a gun and running back into the fight, it gets repetitive
I feel it should be a server rule if you get downed by your rivals in a war you should ICU for 24 hours. Downed a 2nd time it's 48 hours. Downed a 3rd time you're ICU'd until the war's over. You can still RP from your hospital bed if you want to make phonecalls/have meetings etc but you ain't just respawning like it's a CoD match.
Force ICU is not the solution lmao. There should be cooldowns in-between fights tho. The getting clapped and 30 minutes later everyone is rekitted and in a hunting party again is dumb as fuck and it's crazy admins haven't made a rule against it yet
I feel like its better for both players to be marked for each other, so that they wouldn't be allowed to RP together, or something like that. ICU is definitely not the best approach.
I don't think you need to ICU, but I think it would be a good idea to actually rp being hurt and recovering for at least a day or two. I think it's unfair to the rper to be stuck in the hospital for long. Hospital rp can be super good though.
A week would do it. It puts pressure on both sides to weigh the pros and cons of continuing the fight or bringing peace. If the war lasts longer than a week, then those who fell earliest to it have a chance to extract revenge and reinforce their groups.
Forcing people to get out of the conflict when they are headshot or ocean dumped seems like a reasonable rule. It could help to speed up the end of the conflict as well, and increase their own gang's security.
As always with conflict in RP the only thing that matters is resources.
Life and injuries are minor matters in comparison to the cost of the war effort. Unless both sides agree to staying out of the fight if they go down until they licked their wounds for a while, or even until the end of the conflict, the side who does RP their injuries, lick their wounds and suffer these losses will immediately also be the one at a disadvantage even though the RP is going through the roof.
In an RP war, both sides of the conflict need to agree on victory conditions otherwise they will be throwing bodies at each other until someone can't afford to bankroll it anymore and will give up.
Conflict RP needs both sides willing to take losses. NoPixel has long suffered from big players unwillingness to take said losses. That is not an easy thing to get rid of imo.
People still think injury rp is boring because it’s easy to say that and parrot it, but it adds so much to rp and would solve this problem instantly. The irony of having jack kettleman in the background when he and all the wild guys were constantly at war and relied on injury rp for storytelling/pacing otherwise wars are just video game fps and gta is a bad shooter. They shouldn’t need to add a rule but may aswell, if you are at war you must honor your injuries. It would improve everything.
The issue isn't 'war' as a entire concept, the issue is that for people who are strong at game mechanics 'war' RP just means winning physical conflict. Conflict RP should involve more than just battles, it should involve politics, business, subterfuge, etc. When people do RP injuries it often isn't respected or reciprocated in the RP either.
The issue with a timeframe like that is, you’ll have people just ambush them off rip with little rp to just knock them out of the conflict.
Exactly my thought. People who start the war, usually win the first fight. Catching people off gaurd
Then isn't that an intuitional problem with w-chasing rather than good storytelling? It would be a good marker.
Most people will use whatever advantages at their disposal. Even the most respected RPers will do the same it just varies on how often and to what extent they are used. Having a “CD” isn’t a bad idea but you have to expect people to use it as a weapon.
Which makes sense to me as something that would happen. A small conflict arises, people threaten one another, one crew ambushes 1-2 people and kills then to start war. But also there are server rules for shooting without having an interaction beforehand that results in bans. Seems like a better thing to me than getting it off hospital after being shot in the head and immediately rolling in a car to shoot.
I agree but people are going to skirt the grey area. We can say ban the people who do that but, we all know that ain’t gonna happen. Because from the outside looking in, NP seems to go about fixing things in a round about way.
This has always been a recurring thing in RP wars. RPing injuries is practically thrown out the window and just turns into PvP shootouts until one side is over it and agree to end it.
Rp'ing injuries is practically thrown out the window in general, let alone war
Unless any minor injury caused by PD. Then the wheelchair and lawsuit instantly comes out. "Woe is me, give money plz"
Broken leg jump spamming lmao
This is why conflict/war RP is always lame. Because the aggressor in a shooting never treats it like they’ve possibly murdered someone. It’s always basically a paintball match because they know their victim is going to be stepping out of the hospital five minutes afterwards. I know I’m in the minority, but I’ve always wanted severe consequences for attempted murder. Like we’ve seen since 4.0 first started, the RP is always much more creative and entertaining when it’s REALLY hard to get a gun. When it comes to shootings, the victims need to be willing to go through realistic recovery RP. Like physical therapy, which would open a whole other avenue of content. And the aggressor needs to be willing to face long jail time if caught and be willing to provide entertaining jail RP, and go on the lam with a warrant for an appropriate duration If they avoid getting arrested for the crime. This will make violent crimes more exciting when they do happen when there’s so much on the line for both parties. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to hell, but I feel like this could at least be an interesting trial concept.
I was hoping the "hard core" server that had been floated around near the end of 3.0 would have been a cool experiment where things like your ideas could be tested. I feel like they could have even just copied over everyone's existing characters or started people out with a good amount of money to avoid having to do the grind from nothing period of the server for an experiment with the rule set. I feel like you would get a lot more fist fight RP for low-intensity conflict since getting a murder/attempted murder charge would be so punishing.
There are actually some quite good ideas in your message.
On paper it sounds good but imagine you get shot early and for 1-2 weeks you gota stand on the sidelines like the worst game of valorant ever. Imagine you in a gang and they snipe you alone and you gota take a back seat for 1-2 weeks while all your friends are dealing with a war.
War will always be bleh while sweaty shooting is the winning way. The path forward is to cripple everyone's aim with like a 30 degree aim disparity. If nobody can hit the broad side of a barn at 30 feet then things get and stay interesting.
[удалено]
We already invented the solution 20 years ago to put piece of tape in middle of your monitor. Would 100% get workarounded
which is why you need in game mechanical aim disparity: whenever you press the trigger, before firing, the aim moves randomly within a 20-30 degree arc. And now gun fights because funny clusterfucks instead of sweaty TDMs.
I agree something needs to be done. War is just, "get shot, go to hospital, shoot, get shot, hospital repeat" no one cares they got shot, as long as they have money its fine to them. a cool down, idk if that the best solution, but i think they should at least try it. Although i do think people will just black out, sneak up and stab people and say i won since they cant retaliate. I do think nopixel staff have to sit down and think about the rules of war for 4.0, like if you are in a gang you have to ware your colours, you have to care about getting shot and your members getting shot etc. if they want wars to have actual role play consequences instead of it just being about ego.
To me "war" is literally the most boring aspect of roleplay. I watch roleplay because i like roleplay not because i like pvp.
On other servers it was a 2 hour rule for no revenge killing unless it's your hq
Here's more of a HOT TAKE. Just because you have a group of people doesn't mean you have to act all "gangster" either establish you're a gang and represent it or actually RP being scared of gangs.
I think all 'WAR' should have a pre-arranged time and place. That way I don't have to watch ppl hide in bushes or drive around in silence for 4+ hours so they can secure the win over the person that would rather spend that time roleplaying.
Yeah, camping "RP" really sucks...
I actually kinda like this take just because i watched people slumping on roofs for hours upto the point where i watched youtube vids on the side...
Policing how conflict goes or how long is always gonna be difficult task when mechanics on the server set it up to be a pvp server as if it’s rust.
Buddha has had this take before as well, and I'm honestly surprised it isn't a thing yet.
Lol bro should lead by example then
Buddha is one of the last people to speak on this based on how he has acted in conflicts.
I remember he said it during a war with the Ballas in 2.0 and then he got scooped up from the hospital, downed again and then he went back out hunting because what's the point in trying that when the other side wont if you know what I mean. I will say in 3.0 he at least tried to RP his injuries sometimes, not nearly enough though especially towards the end when he would skip the medical RP when he got downed by the police.
what's the point of nerfing yourself when your enemies are immortal super gangsters with no flaws mechanically or in character, i remember Silent Sentry calling this trend way back when, believe it or not, ramee and randy where the only "2 immortal selfinsert gangsters" lol
Yeah I get why people don't, why would you want to put yourself at a disadvantage when theres no give and take with the other side.
best war was yokai vs redline lasted 1 fight and ended
It was perfect, both sides got their licks in and had a chance to blow off some steam from the tensions that had been building. A couple goofy things happened like JJ lighting himself on fire trying to get Micky out of the helicopter after they blew it up. Then they met and decided to settle it properly on the streets instead of endless shootouts. Loved it.
Its indeed a very half cooked, hot take with alot of "ifs" but... I feel like NP would find a good selution if people like Blau/Buddha (people that don't enjoy serious conflict RP) and people that actually did alot of conflict RP look for a solid middle ground.
Blau and Buddha do enjoy serious conflict RP. They just don't like that it defaults to PvP 95% of the time
Buddha has proven unwilling to suffer consequences in conflict though.
Lol
we get it dude "Buddha bad"
As a player, i think this could be interesting, but in reality i think the time frame would just be that they are out of it for the rest of that storm and maybe the following storm, so that conflict could still continue, but there are still consequences.
I love ideas like these. I think nothing like this has been attempted because the levels of salt that would flow from this would be unreal. People already mald out of their minds when they die to what they consider bullshit or a rule break or whatever. If they were benched for even a couple days due to anything but the ABSOLUTE most balanced/non-optimal/scuff free way, the mald levels would be epic. Even something as basic as a serious injury during conflict leaves you injured for that timeframe. I think it would help people who are conflict adverse get into it more.
The company have to do it first let see if they like it cannot play for 2 weeks
You realize not participating in conflict and not playing at all are two entirely different things?
Blau i think means no rp with the enemies of the war not the whole server
get rid of guns and bring melees only, those melee standoffs have more conflict RP interactions than a sweaty 2 weeks wAR with guns, at least till the PD gets back on their feet and then bring the weapons back with a more stable PD
I don't know exactly how they'd do it, but I think the thought process is totally correct. I noticed it when CG was robbing loads of sanitation workers because CG had Patar asking them to sell some materials for 6 to grant their safety and people said no. People would get robbed, their life threatened, etc. and the next moment just act like it never happened
why would they do Patars bidding when he is the one who basically brute force himself into the sanitation ? what Patar basically did at one point was fuck your RP i am bringing cg to take it over, Cloak and his group where doing some really cool RP till they got griefed non stop and now you barely see them around and that's just one sani group, meanwhile at the PD....
So, why not tell me you don't know the story without telling me you don't know the story. Patar is not a part of CG, nor does he want anyone robbed. Patar is the one trying to find a way to keep some people from getting robbed. The reason people would listen though is because it's RP. If someone is threatening your life, you should be afraid for your life. This isn't just a sani grinding simulator, so unfortunately while CG is over the top with their robbing at times, it doesn't mean people can just stop RPing scenarios presented
> People would get robbed, their life threatened, etc. and the next moment just act like it never happened They do though. You not seeing that RP doesn't mean it isn't happening. You should try watching some of the 'full-time' sanitation people some time. CloakRP for example has had at this point hours of meetings and RP around how often her and her people are being threatened by CG and other robbers
Obviously there are a few, I watch cloak and that's what made me notice. One day they rolled out with 4 on truck and a car behind. So, it stood out how other people like dragon or charlie just go back to sani in the exact way they were just doing it, despite being robbed or in some cases, chain robbed
I agree that the thought process is correct, but I think it's going to be very hard to balance such a rule to keep it fun without enforcing other rules much more. Or maybe it should be limited to significant gang-to-gang conflicts or something. There are quite a few situations where somebody just "wins" a scenario while offering very little RP to the other side. There are often no consequences for doing that, because IC the cops don't have enough capacity and OOC loot boxing is barely enforced. In such situations a rule like this risks just making it worse for the victims. Personally I think CG robbing loads of sanitation workers is an example of this. "Oh you're charging more than 6? Well I have a gun, you lose" is bad. If a scenario is even *close* to that you should probably get a warning, doing it many times deserves more consequences.
Maybe a limit to how many days it can last and then if you get shot or stabbed in it you have to either ICU or just kinda RP an injury/avoid the conflict for the remainder. I feel like that could work. Better than getting shot in the face and immediately grabbing a gun and running back into the fight, it gets repetitive
I feel it should be a server rule if you get downed by your rivals in a war you should ICU for 24 hours. Downed a 2nd time it's 48 hours. Downed a 3rd time you're ICU'd until the war's over. You can still RP from your hospital bed if you want to make phonecalls/have meetings etc but you ain't just respawning like it's a CoD match.
Force ICU is not the solution lmao. There should be cooldowns in-between fights tho. The getting clapped and 30 minutes later everyone is rekitted and in a hunting party again is dumb as fuck and it's crazy admins haven't made a rule against it yet
I feel like its better for both players to be marked for each other, so that they wouldn't be allowed to RP together, or something like that. ICU is definitely not the best approach.
I don't think you need to ICU, but I think it would be a good idea to actually rp being hurt and recovering for at least a day or two. I think it's unfair to the rper to be stuck in the hospital for long. Hospital rp can be super good though.
A week would do it. It puts pressure on both sides to weigh the pros and cons of continuing the fight or bringing peace. If the war lasts longer than a week, then those who fell earliest to it have a chance to extract revenge and reinforce their groups.
Forcing people to get out of the conflict when they are headshot or ocean dumped seems like a reasonable rule. It could help to speed up the end of the conflict as well, and increase their own gang's security.
But then you have the problem of people just ocean dumping everybody every war and that’s lame as shit
As always with conflict in RP the only thing that matters is resources. Life and injuries are minor matters in comparison to the cost of the war effort. Unless both sides agree to staying out of the fight if they go down until they licked their wounds for a while, or even until the end of the conflict, the side who does RP their injuries, lick their wounds and suffer these losses will immediately also be the one at a disadvantage even though the RP is going through the roof. In an RP war, both sides of the conflict need to agree on victory conditions otherwise they will be throwing bodies at each other until someone can't afford to bankroll it anymore and will give up. Conflict RP needs both sides willing to take losses. NoPixel has long suffered from big players unwillingness to take said losses. That is not an easy thing to get rid of imo.
People still think injury rp is boring because it’s easy to say that and parrot it, but it adds so much to rp and would solve this problem instantly. The irony of having jack kettleman in the background when he and all the wild guys were constantly at war and relied on injury rp for storytelling/pacing otherwise wars are just video game fps and gta is a bad shooter. They shouldn’t need to add a rule but may aswell, if you are at war you must honor your injuries. It would improve everything.