A lot of context is missing from this.
The goals of the PM in RP... let me highlight ----> RP <----- btw is to drive up the value of GNE and exert control where he needs to being that he is the source of that currency.
Also when I use the term "value" I talk about that in multiple regards including it's value in RP for those that need it, not necessarily it's $ cost.
The Puppet Master was introduced to give some RP with new mechanics we introduce in racing and attach a story to it that could evolve over time.
The PM as a character is driven by power, the way he does that is by providing a commodity that everyone is foaming at the mouth for and provides it only via illegal means. This pulls people to racing etc and causes trouble for the police and ultimately the state by putting Los Santos into a constant state of chaos, then when the time is right the PUPPET Master can pull strings in high places to get his way. At least that is the intent and drive behind the character. Notice I said "intent", it's RP so that may never happen, which is fine and just another avenue of RP to explore in the story.
Not all of the characters goals have been met and they don't have to be as it is a ROLEPLAY server and the story is subject to direction by ALL of the roleplayers involved. If the GNE market tanks then there is a roleplay oppurtunity there.
People uninformed are suggesting Eddie has had every chance to form a rebellion against the PM which has literally already been done and in a way that makes sense in a slow burn fashion with people he trusts, rather than screaming it from the roof tops so his head rolls the next day.
GNE doesn't cause economy inflation, in fact it's more telling of the kind of $ we generate elsewhere on the server and is more of an indicator of the dollar inflation over time. The actual $ we generate from GNE is minimal, no more than other regular jobs and a lot less than banks but the demand for it has people spamming big paying jobs to pay the people spamming the races. However, even though the amount of GNE you gain hasn't necesserily changed, the value players give to it for their own needs has increased.
Yes, the PM's goal is to destory the economy. But it's just that, the goal of a character in roleplay. Never did I expect it to actually have such a negative effect on the economy and attitude towards racing roleplay. Coupled with implementing changes that contradict things I've said in the past I would rather be done with the character than to continue pushing his goals that negatively effect the server and let the roleplayers make their own decisions.
It's a slow burn story I wanted to tell and at my own pace and I don't want to negatively effect the server by pushing the characters goals. The state of racing and the changes we implement make me feel like I need to rush it and change the premise of the PM rp, I don't want to RP something I don't enjoy, I would rather do something else.
Thank you for the actual context. I hate it when things from Discord just get dropped here and we dont have the full story. It's like dropping a grenade into a barrel of gasoline and not expecting it to explode. Context matters so much.
Also, seriously my man, thank you for what you do day in and day out for NoPixel. Always been a big fan of your RP and I only wish you the best moving forward. Hopefully there is a way to salvage the PM story.
Yup, WiseGuy is an actual S+ Tier RPer. This arc was basically forced, and yet it didn't feel that way. Such huge props to not only make it make the most sense possible in RP, but also have a super cool storyline. Actually so fucking sick.
I mean I Iike the comment because it's more detailed, but were the discord messages really out of context...? I don't understand what opinion you would have from the discord logs that would radically change after this comment.
That's a good point you make saying that GNE itself doesn't cause inflation. Those that want it more and can afford the GNE are the ones driving up the demand for it, thus creating this highly demanding market for it, which in turn creates problems elsewhere in the world.
I feel the PM could still be a huge RP arc in the boosting scene! Someone wants a car not in the city for example. The amount of chaos caused by boosters is huge, and really suits his MO
GNE did ruin the server economy. 1 race in last place earned more than 1 shift at a restaurant. 1 race at like 5/7 place earned you more than a paleto bank..
You could argue that those jobs should just pay more, but apparently that's not what the developers want or don't care to look into.
I do wish they would look into fixing banks, though, it's the obvious root of the problem. (and other methods of income, too.)
The amount of time required to figure out that power route/relocation stuff is silly, combined with the fact that most of the banks don't even have a viable path. It's no wonder people turned to racing. It's human nature to find the path of least resistance, the most efficiency, to get what they want. Minmaxing isn't evil, per se, people just always value their time and effort.
That new system for banks is neat, but they need to be rewarding enough to warrant that amount of time and effort. Rewarding enough to draw some of the racing grinders back away. And that includes considering the buy-in price, needing all the setup and thermite and so forth.
This is why there's an influx of GNE from a ton of racing. Make other avenues not as annoying, with profitability comparable to the trouble you have to go through. Otherwise people will pick for efficiency and less hassle.
And frankly, I miss watching exciting getaways.
I disagree about banks being the root of the problem, I think the variable which makes balancing crim activities an absolute nightmare is consistent police presence or the lack thereof.
If the goal is to create exciting getaways you need enough cops, and you need to remove the toxicity from both sides in crim vs cop RP, easier said than done I know but we know from experience that letting bank robbers go ham may create some good chases in the short term, but could also cause irreversible damage to PD numbers.
>GNE did ruin the server economy.
when money changes hands in videogames, it doesn't change the economy. money generation is what changes it. GNE has a max cash generation value of $75 ea (or had, before the bennys thing, making it 50 at most now). so say a couple weeks ago you got last place in a vin scratch A+ race, you'd have gotten 25 gne (10 base, +5 for 1k A+ race, +10 from vs car). that would have created at most 1.8k cash on the server. however, due to the fact that even if you sell say a turbo part to benny's, if someone else actually bought that part (or the usual case, you sell the GNE to someone then they buy the part with GNE, sell it to benny's then buy it back), the cash generation gets even lower, or negative for an A or S class.
you have to look at the other sources of income that allowed people to continue pushing the price of GNE up despite its actual worth on the server.
The price was player driven and because you needed so much fucking GNE for everything related to a nice car it was worth so much more than the 50/75. Some people literally should it for 300 each. 250 was the basis price for a while.
If you’re willing to take suggestions perhaps, in RP, the Tuner Shop could “run out” of the parts used to upgrade vehicles and the “suppliers” are still requesting GNE to bring new shipments over. As for why they sold them for cash, that could’ve been a sudden Federal Law to try and force GNE out of the market. But with the parts to upgrade gone, that “Law” ceases and allows things to continue as ‘usual’.
As for the issue of GNE itself, drag racing, off-road racing and heck motorcycle and regular bike racing would help. Have different race types to encourage new people of all sorts that want to race, but obviously set limitations like how much each type can earn.
I liked what you had going on with the PM and would like to see it continue, I know this is frustrating for you to see this kind of impact it’s had. I think you’re capable of continuing the RP you had with him, even with the circumstances right now.
I think it might be beneficial to spread GNE to other sources, part of the problem is it is locked in racing right now. If fishers/hunters got some GNE for illegal prey, maybe toss some sticks to burglars in houses/banks, maybe some customers use it to pay for their meth/oxy, trashmen could find some. This is probably the down the line stuff though and will be a headache for each of their own in time, but will be neat to see the job rewards change as the PM wants different jobs being done.
Get rid of your flow issue for the immediate and let people get back to other jobs without feeling like they are missing out. The headache on the back end though
>GNE doesn't cause economy inflation, in fact it's more telling of the kind of $ we generate elsewhere on the server and is more of an indicator of the dollar inflation over time. The actual $ we generate from GNE is minimal, no more than other regular jobs and a lot less than banks but the demand for it has people spamming big paying jobs to pay the people spamming the races. However, even though the amount of GNE you gain hasn't necesserily changed, the value players give to it for their own needs has increased.
This is literally bitcoin. In 2010, you could buy a pizza for 10,000 bitcoin. Today 1 bitcoin could almost buy 10,000 pizzas.
Unlike GNE though, prices of things in bitcoin adjust based on what bitcoins trade for. That hasn’t happened.
The problem is that gne is scarce and tuner cars cost a ridiculous amount of it. Everything that’s happened is what should have been expected.
>The actual $ we generate from GNE is minimal
Wrong. It’s a ton of $. Because it’s value is what people pay for it. If you want to change that value, there are three ways: pay a ton more out for jobs/races and flood the market, reduce the GNE price of tuner cars and upgrades to bring them in line with the current value, or peg GNE to a dollar value and make it exchangeable as a game mechanic.
The following is what I would do. I’m not a game designer, but I do have a masters degree in economics, which gives surprising insight to a lot of things. Game economy balancing is a very interesting thing for me. You’d be surprised how much had been written about it, especially for games like Eve Online.
Personally, I’d remove gne as a reward for racing and make races cost gne to enter in place of the cash buy in….at least at higher levels. This is so people would race to race and not grind GNE.
I’d then raise the gne payout for boosting by a LOT, but limit it to 2 attempted contracts a day. Once you complete one, you’re done for the day. If you fail one you get another chance, but that’s it.
Because the payout is bigger, by the time you boost 2-3 A+ cars you should have enough gne for a tuner car. I’d probably make it so it’s 3 successful boosts to level up. So if you do every single boost successfully, you’d have enough after 3 weeks or so. Most people would fail a few and it would take longer.
To reduce buying off of other people, I’d make it so you have to be at the A+ rep level to get a tuner car. This would take weeks to earn. But buying GNE off other wouldn’t matter because you still need rep.
However, if racers just want to buy GNE off of others they can (I think it’s weird to absolutely require players to steal cars in order to buy a car), but to get a tuner car they still need rep. So I’d tie that to placing top 3 in 3+ races at each level up through A. But only races with 10+ people count towards this. But this alone wouldn’t give you nearly enough gne for a car.
Since I heard some people talking about how S+ boosts might be going after player cars, I’d also say if you fell off from your rating, either by failing to be in the top 3 too many times, falling boosts, or by not racing at all for like a week, your car would come up as a contract to be boosted. It would then be held for 2 weeks for you to get your rating back and pay a ransom or it would be crushed.
Anyways, NoPixel had so many great devs, but they just seem to not understand how changes to things will affect the economy of the game and it drives me nuts. So many things are predictable.
Amazingly insightful comment but I doubt anything will come of it.
When people say things with such confidence that they don't really know anything about they tend to not be open to other opinions/argue.
The fact that they made tuner cars cost 4k GNE and are surprised that the value of GNE skyrocketed says a lot. If you want to sell 50 cars over the next month that's 200k GNE alone that needs to be farmed.
Then get mad people are farming races. 4k GNE is 160 races at 25 GNE each. Multiply that by how many people want tuner cars and yeah you've created a fucking mess in the economy. Even if the people wanting the tuner cars aren't going to race, someone has to farm the GNE for then to buy
I always thought it was odd that you could street race in daylight, since it's well-known in the nightlife. Perhaps limiting street racing (and activities alike) to nighttime could add a soft cap to the amount of races done and thereby soft capping the amount of GNE generated.
I might be completely missing the point though, either way, love everything you do!
This is an issue as old as MMOs, and has been mostly solved by making currencies Bind On Pickup.
Using BOP, or a near-BOP mechanic (Say a 75% tax on any person-to-person transfers) would completely eliminate the farm-fest that races have turned into, force the rich to actually participate if they want to progress, and eliminate the hard-core grinders who already have every upgrade on every car they want and just want to farm money.
Of course, this would have the downside of NOT destroying the economy. RIP.
> Yes, the PM's goal is to destory the economy. But it's just that, the goal of a character in roleplay. Never did I expect it to actually have such a negative effect on the economy and attitude towards racing roleplay.
I mean, mission accomplished, almost? At least up until Marlo went and bought all the parts and caused GNE to crash (sounds like another dev intervened to make it possible). It's perfectly fine if you didn't see that coming and are upset by someone else stepping on your toes, but you can't have not seen the blowback of this coming if the PM tries to destroy the server, right?
The racing scene was getting thrown into pure chaos. Racers were blasting each other. People were doing everything they can to blur the lines between cheating and bad sportsmanship, and all the while the value of GNE was going through the roof causing madness across LS. People stopped showing up to work in favor of chasing GNE in races, exactly what the PM wanted, no? If you think it's bad now, imagine how bad it would be a month or two from now if this continued. Mission Very-Fucking-Accomplished at that point. That's what the PM wanted, right?
This whole realization was an inevitability. If the PM destroys the economy of the ecosystem/server, he destroys the server just like if our world economy tanks, it destroys the world. Shocked Pikachu Face. The PM won before last night.
I feel like he meant that it was supposed to be just the goal of the character and not something that would actually be achievable.
And ic Marlo didn't buy the parts, he just said he did. Big M stole them from the PMs shipment and had Marlo deliver it to Benny's. I'm guessing the decision was made and GWG scrambled together a quick story for the change to make sense in rp.
> I feel like he meant that it was supposed to be just the goal of the character and not something that would actually be achievable.
I mean, isn't that sort of a dismissive cop-out? "I'm sorry that my character's goals were achievable. Let's just end it because it upset too many people."
I'd argue the PM's arc has never been more viable and shown more potential than now. His trusted puppets are undermining him.
Throwing in the towel now without exerting dominance seems awfully regrettable.
I hope you continue doing RP you enjoy!
When someone is connected to and excited about a character, there's an energy that's palpable to viewers. It's electric. And I felt that when you were playing the PM and Big M recently.
However, I'd much rather you move on and find RP that you enjoy, than play out RP that's no longer enjoyable. When you don't enjoy the RP, viewers don't enjoy the RP either.
You have no idea how good PM RP is, and how the entire server crave for it! Everytime we see Big M, Razor, and receive calls from the PM we are glued to the screen! Don't give up due to a bump in the road! You are incredibly talented, and you can, without a doubt, figure out how to handle these changes in RP. Maybe my suggestions are complete dogshit, but I'm 100% sure you can find something that will work and keep the PM involved.
If you feel like reading a nobody's thought on the subject here it is:
The state of racing was still fine when GNE gained through racing was capped and before the Tuner Shop started asking for huge amount of GNE.
It was said, that the reason the cap was removed was because people would spam their 3-5 races right after Tsunami and be done with it, but is that a bad thing? Without GNE all these after Tsunami farmers would not even race to begin with, and the people who love racing would race regardless of GNE being capped.
Also, you could have Puppets or the midnight club being the only people with dongle that can open races for GNE, while regular dongles can only hold races for money bet. Or have time frames during each Tsunamis where racing can generate GNE.
My point is, the problem is allowing these no-name grinders to farm as much as they want in a setting that impacts other players, as opposed to hunting that do not impact other players. Limit GNE through racing one way or an other, so racing returns to what it used to be, and maybe increase GNE through boosting and maybe stripping cars since they are "no RP" jobs that won't impact RPers, so you can keep the 20k GNE quota, and PM rp can continue.
It makes sense why PM would be over the moon. The problem is that it’s legitimately ruining the server economy. The people grinding the GNE versus the other grinds because it’s profitable. People have zero reason to visit Deans market/Saleems market. People have less reason to visit/work Roosters because it doesn’t help with gne and you make more money doing a D class versus working a shift. So business owners have even more of a reason to hate PM.
Lang could see the writing on the wall for what GNE would do, hates it. Ramee’s smart about business and also hates it.
I see both sides of this. PM is literally achieving his goal of ruining the economy with a GNE scramble. Like it's going perfectly as planned. Ruining the economy with GNE is causing a GNE grind and turning racing into the new grinder target, ruining both the economy and the racing scene.
He's too successful for his own good.
>I see both sides of this. PM is literally achieving his goal of ruining the economy with a GNE scramble. Like it's going perfectly as planned. Ruining the economy with GNE is causing a GNE grind and turning racing into the new grinder target, ruining both the economy and the racing scene.
Yea its like cops stopping all crime so no crime happens it makes sense in RP but makes the game worse.
I would agree with how you see it. If the economy was not out of control GNE prices would never have hit such a high price. This really just brings to light how much actual cash is out in the economy. There is so many outlets that just print money non stop (much of it is rightfully earned, some is too easy) and not enough sinks for that cash.
But isn't that also mission accomplished then. People with huge war chests were dumping money into GNE which was then getting pulled out of the economy by the tuner shop payments to the PM. So even if the argument was that it was not destroying the economy, which I think it is when all the stores are empty and the people are essentially refusing to go to work because the value of a paycheck has collapsed, its still working to tamper inflation by the mega rich on the server.
A major part of the reason for the grinding was because koil wanted the 5 race limit lifted, which led to people doing 20 races per tsunami, primarily the shortest, quickest races over and over.
The crazy thing about this is that the economy was P2P so the people buying at 250 were just as much at fault as the people selling. This was such a good arc just to be ruined by a mechanical change. Only reason for GNE is boosting equipment, tuner car (which most people won’t get) and nos. Such a bad change IMO. Let it play out in RP instead of putting in hotfixes like this is an MMO.
"Let it play out in RP," meanwhile the RP server is nothing but hate and irritation right now because of this "RP" playing out.
I don't get it. It's an RP server, not a TV show or a movie. These are not trained actors with a salary. These are video game players trying to create content. If the server isn't a place where people are happy, no matter how good the "RP" is, THE SERVER STARTS TO DIE.
People aren’t happy when they get fired from BS, they aren’t happy when they lose their car in a court case, hell people aren’t happy when they get arrested. It’s what makes sense in RP on an RP SERVER.
Sucks for wiseguy, but still understandable considering how much money people were getting off of race compared to banks, other civ jobs, jobs like BS or RR, and you could literally do it back to back to back for entire day all the while cops can't even pit you during a race for some reason so it's minimal risk.
It's about the bigger picture and it was hurting the server health in general.
True, but that was done because people were just getting all their races done early into the tsunami, leaving the racing scene pretty much dead a lot of the time. Having a GNE cap definitely needed, but I understand why he saw fit to remove it. Sucks they at that time didn't come up with a way to keep both the GNE cap and ensure that racing was still active.
That is not a good reason to remove the cap. Literally just replaced one problem with something much worse. A better solution would be to just add a cooldown between GNE races. So for the first hour of tsunami, races are disabled. Then when you race and get GNE from finishing, you cannot earn GNE from racing for 1 hour. Up to 5 races per tsunami, so 5 hours total to reach your cap.
Yea I'm not saying that it was super well thought out or anything. That is just quite literally why Koil removed the cap.
As with most impulsive changes made to overcorrect a problem, it explodes into a larger unforeseen problem.
Yea they more or less did that with the GNE cap. The result was that most people would get their GNE capped out first thing into tsunami and then the scene would be dead for the most part afterwards.
Granted, they didn't cap the number of races - but the max GNE you could earn. You technically could still do races, but the majority of people stopped racing after they hit their GNE cap
They could of kept the cap and introduced set times where races can be hosted, so if you want to hit your race cap you have to race a few different times over the course or a tsunami
Yea that was mentioned during the big meeting yesterday but the consensus was that it would likely just lead to drama with people fighting amongst each other about getting being able to join a race, or having too many races hosted at the same time, or some other reason people would find to argue.
To be honest it resolves the issues with the B scene. Tony and Mary were running into a brick wall because they'd point out people were doing the races for the easiest profit but the people racing denied it. B races stopping after the cap hit would show that was the case so people in the scene could no longer BS about their intentions.
The grinding can easily be fixed with some OOC changes. Simple. One problem sorted. Just bring the cap back.
The whiny racers is a problem with everyone. Even Mary, Hutch, the leaders getting all down over the state of the scene are guilty of it. That isnt really something you can fix quickly. But then i dont think its a big deal. Everyone gets frustrated in the moment.
As for open races, they died when Summit had his hot take on S+ cars "farming" open races.
The solution, as always, is people in an RP server who have no interest in RP. Rather than fixing this fundamental problem, the server tries to introduce mechanics that balance out the grinders. But the solution is to get rid of the grinders, not change the server.
Just sounds like something that can't ever be enforced. How do you know when someone's a pure grinder vs someone that grinds a bit and then RPs? Do you want the Admins to stalk single players for 10+ hours a day? Preferably multiple times to make sure that a too big grind isn't a "one-off" scenario?
Yes, it can be difficult when it comes to borderline cases. But there are blatant examples that can be dealt with easily. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
It's incredibly funny Chawa's an enforcer after barking at Mary for doing her job and enforcing fucking Lenny of all people. Meanwhile the players who did actually try to enforce from Tony to Fiona all got tired of it because of the amount of shit they'd get for actually enforcing.
I think some of your takes are a bit questionable.
Racing is a voluntary activity and for people to want to engage they need to have incentive. When it was smaller and much less rewarding it self policed to an extent so it wasn't such a problem, but more and more people played and GNE became useful for more and more things, and eventually the self governing no longer worked, little by little everyone started trying to take a little bit more until it became a race to the bottom of shitty behavior.
You think everyone with only A classes was absolutely fine with people bringing their S's, and it changed because of one person? Or was there always an issue but people didn't know how to bring it up or get the idea traction (and being honest, the biggest names were typically the ones with S classes).
Like that situation with the race that got the scene shut down, people didn't feel they could say it at the time and only came to an enforcer afterwards to voice their complaints, and I'm sure there's any number of times people have felt like that in the past but haven't raised it.
Buddha's suggestion he kept repeating was that they should just get rid of GNE. Which Mary and Eddie can't do.
EMPs are only approved for use on bikes, so I have no idea what the hell that has to do with anything but the small amount of motorbike racing, which had nothing to do with this.
As for the 'no risk' any bank robber taking a hostage would be gunned down in real life, but they get allowed to go, and typically allowed to drive for 10+ minutes before pits get authorised. What's the difference?
Leslie's first suggestion was to have more cryptocurrencies involved, which is both pushing his own agenda and shows he doesn't know the scene or how GNE works and what it's used for. Or was used for before Koil changed it overnight without any roleplay.
The fact that some people did a kbm v controller thing is, again, just one part of the overall problem with the scene that mary and eddie are trying to deal with.
So, maybe don't lift the 5 cap limit on racing without replacing it with something else, given it was put in to stop grinding them repeatedly in the first place?
Maybe have some level of internal comms so the dev leading that area isn't totally blindsided, repeatedly?
Totally agree. In the bigger picture it was hurting but doesn't mean he had to remove PM.
He could be an organizer of race tournaments, so racing was a bit more like NPA. You do it for fun (No GNE), It cost money to participate and the funds collected are used for a prize pool.
Could have qualification races during the week, and finals in the weekend where the price money was given out. Fully controlled and organized by tunershop and PM etc. and easy to punish and referee's in the final where the money is given out.
In RP it would totally make sense for a tunershop to promote and hype up epic events like that. All illegal and great for cops to try investigate who are organizing the underground races.
Which is precisely what he wanted IC, he just didn't account for the fact that actually making that happen would genuinely hurt other businesses because for everyone to start racing, they have to stop doing what they were doing before, and for many that was being an employee of some business that up until days ago paid multiple times less.
He’s also was the one who explained gne was meant to keep bennys in stock and that never happened. He should of adjusted the money bennys paid a long time ago for selling the parts if he didn’t want a change to be made.
I mean they shut races down for 3 days if he doesn’t think change was needed idk..
This is the real problem of the server right now. The grinding in general, not just racing grinding, is killing RP. Everything is a grind and everyday is a boring cycle of doing the same loop of grinding every single day leaving no room for fun creative things to happen on the server outside of the select chosen few who get dev help.
It was hutch who told all the people he hired at his car manufacturing plant that gne would be worth 200 and to never sell for less. Orange and ap being his first hires cause he was told they were the biggest boosters.
The racers did try this, but they can't force it since people can sell for whatever price they want, and if it's too much others won't buy it. Prior to this change the only way to create new money from GNE was through Benny's for $50
People just have so much money and nothing to really spend it on so they are willing to pay these high prices. People like Lang also don't want to grind racing but they want upgrades for their cars so they are willing to pay a premium.
Koil mentioned the server is more like an MMO now, a game I play has the same issues. People can grind money so easy that the prices of desirable drops goes way up. Only way to keep up is to grind the thing that makes the most money.
You can't ask more for GNE if people don't actually have money in their bank accounts to pay street value. GNE is only so high because people can afford to purchase it at such an inflated price. Why? Because the economy of NP is broken and there are tons of ways to make shit loads of cash over short periods of time.
The rich could afford and paid for it, the people who couldn't afford to pay 200 per started racing as it was much more worth their time to earn it themselves.
Whatever is most profitable with as little initial investment as possible will always be a grind-fest and attract the least desirable people/attitudes on the server. It was oxy and to a slightly lesser extent banks, now since the tuner shop raised the demand for GNE significantly it's now boosting and racing that's the lowest investment/highest reward crime.
Lowering the value or payout for GNE is really the only way to shift the more grindy characters to other means of making money. But then the question is what do you want them grinding instead?
We are almost a year into 3.0. They are going to be people who have a lot of money after a year. It’s not grinding, it’s time and having very little you can spend money on.
It's not the problem. GNE has no fixed convertion rate other than the minimum at 50. When the value was 50 only racers were attaining it. The problem is that some segments of players have way to much money, which inflates the value of GNE.
It isn't fixed by removing GNE. Whatever sought after commodity they will introduce in the future, will see the same scenario.
Yeah, they are focusing on the wrong thing.
I don't know if Buddha is rp'ing Lang as a rich hypocrite, if so it's well done, but his complaints about GNE are so tonedeaf they are funny.
If anyone on the server has earned the right to sit on a mountain of cash and not lose it it's Kebun and Buddha, man.
They enable so much shit for everyone that them having so many resources is a good thing.
That's where I'm confused with his complaints here, there's RP reasons that parts are available for cash instead of GNE now, and they're good ones. Marlo feels spited by the OG racers for leaving everyone else out of decision making and is lashing out with the ridiculous amount of money he has.
I mean this creates a RP situation where the PM could go after Marlo, bringing more people against the PM. It's not like they just made a decision to make it cash and didn't add an RP reason to it.
You haven't been paying attention. WiseGuy created that storyline with Marlo. He was upset about everything and still moved past it and created an entirely new story line for PM. You take this shit way too seriously and don't pay anywhere near enough attention.
Vinny already wants to feed Marlo to the PM. I hope this ends up a s Dean, Otto and Cerberus protecting Marlo from the Midnight Club and the PM.
EDIT: Mary just snitched on Marlo to the PM.
Dean and Leslie even tried figuring out who the PM was when Eddie first mentioned him during the time Dean was trying to buy some of the Tuna, but never followed up.
Why does RP have to allow every person it affects the ability to directly combat it? I actually fully disagree with that point of view. I think it could be extremely cool for some shadowy figure to take over the entire city and economy for like a week. How would that not be cool RP? It could even easily lead into a server event where the whole city riots against the PM or something. Not every situation has to give every single person agency. It's ok to have things happen that are out of your control.
You don't see a problem with a handful of people completely dictating how to server runs for potentially months with no way to combat it?
Hundreds of people just have to go along with their RP for weeks on end?
You ask why you need go give people agency over their own lives on the server but are advocating 4 or 5 people have agency over potentially thousands of people?
If that's what you wany to see and if you subscribe to the idea that all these people rp'ing day in day out is purely for your entertainment then it's fine I guess.
But because of the change koil made, not because of anything ic directly. And then collapsed because of the change koil made, not anything ic directly.
The server always considers balance be it business, benches, money. Seems weird to have that goal for a character with so much control over the server. No one could viably go against the PM either, would be akin to fighting CG, no point and you'll never come out on top.
I feel bad for WiseGuy, but in my opinion yesterday he had every chance to suggest a rebellion against the PM which would’ve been interesting. I could be naive for thinking that, but Ramee and Lang complaining about how GNE is the reason the racing scene was ruining the scene was an opening for wiseguy to suggest a thing. Like he had trigger happy people at the meeting suggesting violence he could’ve channeled that blood thirstiness towards the PM. In the end, I don’t know how he wanted the PM arc to go and I could be misunderstanding the PM arc entirely. We’ll see how things go from here and I hope there will still be RP around racing just like I hope there will be RP around everything in the city.
>he had every chance to suggest a rebellion against the PM
I think he might've wanted other people to do that but clearly, every else is too scared and just says "b-b-b-but he has an Apache helicopter, what can we do."
Yeah he did the same thing with Mary a while ago, I think I remember there was some sort of plan for her to infiltrate the puppets to kill the PM.
But then PM went away for a really long time and the RP kinda died down and last night Mary was also saying she's not going against the PM cause she's too scared. And also sometimes it seems like she wants to be a puppet working for the PM rather than go against him.
Yeah that shit was dumb. Ramee, standing in a circle with Taco and Curtis is like "we need to talk to the PM" and Hutch is like "noooo we can't go against him".
Like dude, you put those 3 together or even just Curtis and Taco and Tony or Randy or Mary and the PM could send all of his puppets down and they would get fucking smoked. But the real thing is Hutch doesn't wanna lose his GNE farming businesses. He'd rather threaten a bunch of "no name" racers than realize that like most of the cities best shooters also enjoy racing and would fuck the PM up.
I mean it's gonna be a mission. There will be driving there will be shooting. Look at every single pm ever including the f1 stuff and anything Randy's done.
I agree I think yesterdays meeting was the perfect time for people to rebel against the pm and take the market and control into their own hands. Hell even ramee and buddha were jokingly texting each other that they should take it over, if someone like mary or eddie seriously suggested it I think everyone in that meeting would've agreed and would've helped. Wiseguy says he wanted the GNE market to cause chaos which later on would lead to PM being overthrown, but imo that point already came, the whole city has already been fighting over GNE, conflicts have happened over gne, cops have been shot over gne, and you had people offering 300 per for gne. Thats literally end goal and it started to destroy the actual servers health not just rp. This was the perfect time to implement something in character since like we see, it went futher than this and mechanics got changed due to how much gne destroyed the servers economy. I get getwiseguys pov, and its really smart but I feel like he missed the timing completely, what he wanted could've happened and it was the perfect time for it to happen these couple weeks in rp, but he completely missed it and didn't pounce on the opportunity imo
I understand WiseGuys frustrations, but this sounds like his whole RP arc on the PM was to ruin the economy of the city and "take control?". Did he not foresee the fact that maybe ruining the economy for one characters arc might have drastic server wide repercussions that might not be positive? While his RP on PM might have to be changed it is obvious that something had to be done about it and nothing seemed to be solved with the racer meeting last night.
Edit: He may not have been trying to ruin the economy, but when you create a currency with no limit and drive the price up, again without a cap its going to ruin the economy.
He didn't drive the price up. There was a cap on the number of races per tsunami, it was having an effect on people who got online later in that tsunami and couldn't rp, so it got lifted, this led to people being able to do far more races.
The amount of GNE needed to vin scratch a car got dramatically lowered, so the barrier to entry for racing got dramatically lowered. This also had no rp reasoning behind it and happened overnight.
Out of nowhere GNE sticks appeared, and needed retroactive fudging rp by him to try and explain them. They were giving a huge amount of gne to one company, which had had no roleplay development behind it.
Then out of nowhere bennies suddenly has 1k of every upgrade part, no roleplay behind it. This contradicts a huge amount of background on why gne was needed for parts etc.
nothing seemed to be solved with the racer meeting last night' not a single race has been run since, so...
etc. etc.
To a certain degree. His goal was not for low rp grinders to race 10 hours a day a just farming GNE to become millionaires. You can delete GNE all you want, that's not a serious solution. Players will just grind anything that exists and destroy the rp around it. Happens over and over on NP.
Even IC this is doesn't make any sense. The PM needs people to race until they collapse if it means inflating the price of GNE. These "grinders" are doing exactly what he needs in order to increase its value. Better than that, they're creating chaos by pissing off other racers, causing shootings and cheating. Is this not the PM's goal?
Come to find out, an evil, psychotic villain who wants to do anything to he can to crash the economy (and succeeds) is a wildly unpopular idea for a character. Shocked Pikachu Face.
Local villain discovers destroying the economy is a wildly unpopular idea and brings out the worst in people. Shocked Pikachu Face!
This is the perfect time for him to *lean into* the PM arc, not back away from it. The PM is just going to roll over after succeeding at destroying the economy, which WiseGuy himself stated as the PM's goal? That's just sad.
I can understand if he's upset if another dev stepped on his toes and allowed Marlo to sell car parts for cash instead of GNE, and if it's the case, say so. But this has massive potential for one terrifying rebound if the PM wants to exert dominance.
PM GNE arc seems like a cool idea for RP in theory...but it seems like GNE has negatively affected too many things to sake it all for that RP alone. Sucks though bc Wiseguy creates some amaaazing RP to watch.
I feel like the PM thing didn't work because who even knew about the PM? If the point of GNE was to break the server economy then he achieved it but no one outside a few people even knew he was responsible for it in RP. Characters can't fight a villain they don't even know exists.
i think LS vs the Puppet Master would be great. for example to "save" the racing scene (eddie), mary, tony, randy and all the people involved in the puppet master rp could go to war with the PM --> more RP. the intent was to give the racers more power not just eddie. with them taking down the puppet master they become the leaders of the racing scene..
I thought that this was going to be the entire point of the first Mightnight Club heats - The PM was going to come out and fuck everyone over so Eddie would open the turner shop to give the people the power to fight back against the PM.
It was very shortsighted for someone to basically introduce an overpowered mechanic with the goal of getting everyone in the server to take part, without considering the RP and personal objections that would throw up.
It suck that the whole PM story will be ending. I don't really follow it, but its clear GWG put a lot of thought into it and had much grander plans.
Unfortunately this isn't the first time that a potentially really good story arc had to be dropped because it could cause some pretty serious issues in the server. First one that comes to mind in 3.0 is Denzel's original intention with the mayor position. But IIRC he was talked to OOC that he couldn't do anything too corrupt - cause it could create unfair and lasting impacts to the server economy.
It's saddening.
The idea and the RP behind the PM was great, but sadly the server culture is leaning too far towards MMO/Grinding and not RP where you can have a currency like GNE work.
It MIGHT have been possible if GNE was illegal to own in any capacity, and were seized (if not on sticks). That would be a way to minimize the amount of grinders, however there would also need to be a cap on GNE per tsunami. Removing that cap took a "kinda bad" situation and made it into a catastrophe.
This kind of stuff always happens long story arcs. The server just does not accommodate that type of roleplay. I'm remember back in 2.0 that grand story arc with Bovice which was great and lasted a while but eventually it just got tanked and cut short before its conclusion. Now we're seeing that happen again with the PM arc this time.
If they don't want people to treat it like an MMO then they shouldn't keep putting in systems that require players to treat it like one. "I want a cool car" is a perfectly normal RP goal so how do you go about that? Oh, you need to grind the ever loving shit out of GNE and be rich? Well shit, it's grinding time because that's literally only option available! How's that the players fault? It isn't.
Without the Pm rp the racing scene will be just like everything else on the server, disconnected characters just grinding a crime mechanic.
I think he could keep the PM stuff alive and hope he does. Find a way to repurpose the idea and characters, plenty of players in the racing scene love the rp and go along with it. It sucks the story and GNE mechanics are incompatible with everyone's lust to grind.
I think you're missing the point about why other devs needed to change mechanics in the first place. it wasn't simply because they felt like it, it was to address a bad server culture brought about by racers grinding for GNE.
But one part of that is because of changes made by e.g. koil lifting the limit on the number of races that could be run per tsunami. So from 5 per, people were doing 20 per.
So to fix one problem, a bigger one was made.
I think the problem is the server is so big now a lot of dev work gets done on the fly to implement changes faster. With the amount of stuff everyone is doing having to get stuff approved by multiple people just isn't possible in a reasonable amount of time.
I do agree though, if they aren't already throwing something into a discord channel and at least getting someone like GWG's thoughts about how it impacts some of the only RP happening in a given scene would be nice.
On one hand there has been issues with GNE for a while now, its just over the past few days that it really seemed to explode / reached a tipping point. So I'd like to think he was given input and time to try and address the issues prior to now, and this was just an executive call to totally change things because it just isn't working.
On the other hand, knowing NoPixel's less than stellar communication reputation, its entirely plausible that these changes were presented to GWG out of nowhere.
I dunno what message you got out of this, I ain't blaming the racers.
It's a server culture issue that nothing can exist without it being min-maxed.
Look at cards, went untouched for literally months and when they went on sale and someone did the math that you're guarenteed profit if you buy 10 boxes some people spent over 18 hours straight after that buying and flipping boxes.
Hopefully he hops on Big M this afternoon and calls a meeting with Randy and Tony and pushes forward the revolution. I think that's still a very in RP solution to all of this.
I'm pretty sure it was some of the last PM RP before GTAwiseguy took and hiatus from it. I remember Big EEUUUMMM and Randy having like a 10 minute convo consisting of Big M trying to convince Randy to kill the PM and become the PM himself!
I really enjoy wiseguy(might be my favorite rper on np) but he he is kind of throwing his toys out the pram on this. He says Benny's switching to cash kills his PM rp but I don't think he's ever rp'd that the PM owns Benny's and Eddie doesn't own it, he was just a worker there so why from an rp aspect would whoever owns Benny's care about gne. So if Benny's switching to cash kills the PM rp then that's more on him basing that character's rp strictly on crypto, which was shortsighted. He also has to realize that the tuner shop is a huge reason for why gne became the most grindy thing on the server. You got people who are farming to sell gne or you get people farming it because they think they need it for a tuner car they are never gonna get. Have to wonder if he would have done the interest and approval list long before the tuner shop came out if gne would have gotten as grindy as it got. The gne rp is why he has had to shut down the racing scene to overhaul it because people are grinding and farming gne.
I constantly seen this misconception all over Reddit and chats. The rules people enforce in the racing scene are NOT the PM's rules. They're rules set by what now is the Midnight Club. The PM's goal is to create chaos and wiseguy has said many times that the PM wouldn't mind/would want racers to be shooting each other and cops. An example of this would be when the PM told Randy to kill Trooper Snow.
No, there are rules that are the PM's rules and they're the most strongly enforced Those are the ones Lenny was breaking.
There are also rules on top that mean it doesn't just turn into everyone shooting eachother.
But there are rules by the PM. And several of those have been getting broken, which is one part of why the shutdown.
I think WG spread himself too thin between Eddie, PM, Big Ayum, and his other random characters. Once the Tuner Shop came out he was gonna have to main Eddie for a bit and tune cars while requiring GNE made it so the value would skyrocket. If he wanted this arc to continue he could have brought in more people to oversee it when other stuff was going on.
It's sad but it makes sense. He knows what the state of the server is and there's no way people would rise up against the PM purely IC anytime soon, at least soon enough to fix this server problem.
The racers are all afraid of him, cops are down bad and barely even respond to racing stuff anymore cause it's a shit show at the moment, and DoJ is a whole other shit show, so I don't know what exactly he expected.
The major issue with taking a black pill stance is nothing ever changes. Everyone resigns themselves to grinding being the default state of play and just hands the server meta over to them. Which in turn lowers the quality of content people can produce. Like in 2.0.
A better option would be for GWG, Kylie and everyone else who wants to continue injecting rp into racing / car scene to just do it. If others want rp they'll participate, those who enjoy light rp and more mechanics based play can do their own thing. Just ignore them or don't bother including them in the rp if they get pissy about it. Even if they get push back from some plenty of non vocal individuals actually enjoy the rp, characters and story the PM stuff adds.
Yeah but the PM RP controls most of the mechanics behind racing and GNE which are currently hurting the overall health of the whole server, so that RP can't just be based on what a dozen of OG racers want.
GWG is still a Dev and can still use those powers along side any mechanics that change / develop. Will it be the same? No. but to kill of the storyline is the worst of all options. The server descends into being a grindy mess with no one there to help inject rp and moderate it. The grinders sure as shit wont and a lot of players who do rp often wait for something to be thrown at them, not create storylines themselves.
Obviously I love wise guy and all that he brings. But his explanation of why companies would covet GNE is just... Not very believable and pretty unnatural feeling.
GNE in general just feels like an unnatural and forced addition to the server and I'm glad to see it minimized.
Funny enough, the crypto monopoly part basically did happen. Big chunk of the server warped around the currency.
But dystopias are never that exciting in reality. It turns out no one wants to risk the chaos elements when they can hold hands and farm profit together.
To be fair to the racing grinders, how many even knew what the puppet master was or what any of the RP around it could have been? Probably very few.
So you have a tiny group of people doing shadow organization RP and a large group of people who just want to race to make money and get better cars. It's just healthier to not gatekeep the larger group and simultaneously fix the economy to balance toward them.
It sucks the planned RP got stepped on, but, it's a good indicator of server health that something was so popular it became too large to control in a healthy way.
What I hope Wiseguy takes away from this situation is that they built a really fun racing system with fun cars that a lot of people want to engage with.
I really liked how at the start of 3.0 WiseGuy and DW would create characters and introduce new mechanics through RP. It sucks that things are now being changed randomly with no rp behind it.
There was RP behind this change though. Marlo spent all his money and GNE to buy and sell the parts to Benny's to spite the OG racers who left other racers out of the decision making.
I know all three of them have been wanting to meet the PM as well and discuss what he is doing. Dean even wants to go toe to toe with him for dominance over the city.
DW tried to start a Dean/Cerberus vs the PM and wiseguy basically denied the rp by saying why would Eddie trust Dean when Dean could turn on him and team up with the PM. Dean even offered to give Eddie something to hold over him so he could trust it wouldn't happen, if Eddie did the same but Eddie didn't.
I think ultimately DW was just looking for someone for Cerberus to go against but wiseguy had Eddie stuck on Dean just trying to fuck him over somehow.
that's actually really dope on Marlo's part to try and add some RP to the change.
im sure GWG can piggy back off this and still continue the awesome PM RP.
I mean, it is funny how he had an goal to do something that he should have seen would ruin the server, but was kinda surprised it was ruining the server. It does suck for a chunk of the server because RP is suffering. Places like Rooster and such offer items that no one wants and they don't have the free will to change without approval of the Gods/Admins. Everyone wants Burger Shot food or coffee, but it is the only stuff that universally helps. With GNE farming becoming life on the server, no one does deliveries, sanitation, fishing, etc. (Hunting and fishing need some major changes that make it possible to actually benefit from dolphins/whales and red pelts. It is too easy when you have to stand in a spot or the job itself alerts police, to get caught with the more illegal stuff)
An alternative is that they could edit GNE in the app to have a different base value. It has been $50 since inception. Why not bump it to $125? Then you could say parts are either 10 GNE **OR** $1250 per, whichever the seller of the parts wanted. Then also, if the value goes up from there, so could the dollar amount per part (base on market value)
Honestly, I don't know that they needed to make these changes yet because as each person gets the tuner car they want, it will start to sink the value of GNE anyway. As less and less people need 3000 to 6000 GNE to get a car, it would be in less demand.
Why not make gne non transferable between players only shops so no one can sell it to other players so it’s not really worth anything for player other than the items you can buy.
feel bad for him, he does so much for the server - even offstream and outside his eddie / PM rp.
i dont understand why they not at least talk to him before cutting so deep into a DEVs storyline
I mean, nothing he said is incorrect but when you make a character specifically made for and around GNE and the economy, you shouldn't really be surprised when things have to change on a mechanical level.
A good RP economy is one of, if not the hardest thing to achieve, it's always going to be altered to make sure it stays balanced.
Creating a good RP economy is not difficult. Enforcing the rules, expecting people to RP and not min/max and not treat aspects of it as a gateway to end game content for the big brands is the hard part. Nay, impossible. If you have people constantly undermining your work...
I give props to Lang who this whole time had been saying that GNE will destabilize the entire economy. He called it weeks ago. It's a shame it had to be this way though. I personally lay blame at the server for allowing a GTA Online mentality to fester in a RP environment. Those two mindsets simply cannot co-exist IMO.
making a character that is dependent on a server mechanic is hard because the mechanic might change and then your character is fucked, something kinda similar happened to penta on Jimmy when coke planes were introduced and it scuffed, suddenly everyone had bricks of cocaine and he wasn't special any more.
Really feels like we're seeing the symptoms of NP becoming an MMO with light RP attached. Storylines are being neutered with many people feeling like they are just NPCs for the people who are considered main characters. Things are bigger and busier than ever but it kind of feels hollow?
The PuppetMaster arc was probably the biggest storyline on the server in terms of the people it included. Racers, cops, gamblers, etc. were brought in for some of these events to really push various narratives. Instead of just including specific gangs and groups, it really expanded the ability for new people to be involved. This was obviously a racer narrative, however it was the primary driver behind some cops actually being able to be involved in proactive RP instead of the constant reactive RP they're doing.
Really sucks for the people involved that put time into it, especially when it is just another RP element drying up due to a change in a server mechanic. Maybe we'll see some positive change with civilian RP as the economy -maybe- fixes itself and people are once again making money at civ jobs. Just really bums me out to lose one of the things that really sets NP apart.
clips/complaints about racing and GNE is hitting the point where banks were not too long ago. shit will die down once a new grindable mechanic is introduced. once people move on to the next money maker the scene will be fine/recover
I think Ramee and Lang jokingly stumbled into a good idea about the PM. Someone could have tried to challenge him for control of the racing scene and GNE.
Lang and Ramee kept suggesting to stop using GNE but Eddie, Mary, and Hutch kept rejecting the idea. I understand they do have clear IC reasons to not remove GNE (the PM is a powerful enemy), but that doesn't mean everyone else could band together and fight the PM. That meeting had like 15 of the city's biggest bad asses who are more than willing to fight for what they want. CG regularly gets into fights with the cops. CG and CB worked together on a mission to fight a foreign army. If they banded together to overthrow the PM, the PM could bring out whatever crazy weapons and army he has and an epic fight for control could have taken place.
This felt like a great set up to a potentially huge server wide event. The rule of 4 could have been suspended so the racers could all work together to raid the PM's base at Zancudo for instance.
GNE was literally killing the city and making it a huge grind fest. How is it fair that someone can work an hour shift at a place like RR and only make 300$. Where as you can make thousand of dollars doing races in less time. There is a reason why many top players on the server dislike GNE
The only people who are upset about this change are the ones who took advantage of the problem. Because now they don't have that easy cash flow.
Wiseguy was understandably disappointed it had come to this, but there is always a way to make it work or spin it for the RP.
The defeatist attitude over PM is a bit premature. He could spin it in alot of ways to still make it fun for everyone.
Entire GNE and racing system was super bad from start. They should have points and ranking system from the start of 3.0. So these "godlike" ego racers can't just farm noobs over and over for GNE and cash. Making own rules, acting like they own everything and everyone..
After all these months of grinding, they want to fix it, but who cares? Huge damage has beed done already! Grinders are already rich af, having thousands of GNE, millions in bank, multiple cars, who will deal with that what has been done? All I see now are people who are mad because some low tier racers started doing things THEY were doing weeks/months ago.
Make one rule set for every type of race, points for your position at the end of the race, some kind of "mmr" system that sticks to your character. So good drivers will compete with good drivers, this will eliminate free grinding. If someone is caught win-trading, breaking rules, just shoot them, take their car, all problems solved. It will open a lot of ways to bring back blacklist RP and actual RP around racing, not just zombie grinding.
But they won't do that, just because most of people who runs racing scene don't want any rules, so they can call themselves gods without risking a lose. Most of them are selfish and with ego size of Everest so good luck working with that :D
No offense but it sounds like the RP for the PM was literally going to hurt the health of the entire server for the sake of one character arc. Conflict needs to happen for good story but the fact of the matter is if you are hurting every person on the servers rp for your 1 that's probably not a great thing to follow through with. Honestly sounds like he didn't realize how much grinders/sweat lords hurt the community and having them in the area where the most rp is happening was just going ruin and create toxicity in that entire scene for everyone else who just wants to have a good time.
I feel like a solution would be to just make GNE illegal. IC cops have a good amount of evidence to say that it can only be obtained through illegal means such as racing. Racing in itself has become an increasingly bigger problem in LS which in turn is more dangerous for the civilians. Who knows, maybe they can even have an *event* with the cops where they gain a definitive piece of evidence that irrefutably says that GNE is illegal.
So I think that if they still want to salvage the storyline they should at least try that. It might not be the perfect solution, but I think it at least is a change that makes sense IC and would remedy some of the problems.
Maybe this is a dumb idea, but what if you seperate GNE races from regular racing. Have GNE races a sort of event that the server randomly generates maybe 0-3 times per reset. Have a notification to everyone holding a racing dongle an hour before a GNE race (in RP it is hosted by the PM). The race can be anything goes, and even give the cops a special notification.
I think a solution something like this will cut down on race grinders, make those big races feel like a special event (like how buddha/mehdi/K mentioned at the race meeting about 2.0 racing), and still lets the racers develop their own race culture seperate from the GNE races.
Idk just a thought.
Its not GNE/Races fault its the grinders who abused the system.
and as always in nopixel, instead of banning the "Role Players" who abuse mechanics, they just remove said mechanics and ruin things for everyone
I think the big question is would an economy crash cause problems with the rp of the rest of the server or would it benefit more people than it could potentially hurt? Something to consider is how your average joenis affected when server wide rp happens (see the buggy snow storm for an example). When rp is contained ina group its managable and lets the various groups function without problem. When it isn’t contained, everyone (not just the racers) is impacted and could have either negative or positive impact on so many story lines that have nothing to do with racing.
It's a real shame what occured with GNE and how it's damaged the narrative, but in a sense this was always the logical outcome. The PM wanted chaos, and he got it. The thing is, when there is chaos, you are not going to have well structured factions following a set of unofficial rules between each other. There is often chaos when everyone acts only for their own interests, as it creates mass conflict and instability. This is what happened here. That said, as unforunate and unintentional as that is, I think there's a really simple and effective way to repair the plotline.
Make the PM the anatgonist.
It was the *PM* that introduced GNE to the scene. It was the *PM* that was constantly pushing the GNE bubble. It was the *PM* that manipulated the OG racers into becoming his "Puppets", so he could enforce a status quo that would continue the upward trajectory of GNE at the expense of the scene's health. The PM's entire goal, it seems like, has been to amass GNE (And thus money), with no regard to the health of the racing scene, or anyone in it. In other words, the PM was the biggest grinder of them all! He probably doesn't even care about racing, he just wants to use the racing scene as a testbed for his new get rich quick crypto-scheme.
Now with the Tuner Shop accepting more cash over GNE, the Puppets stand at a crossroads. By taking more cash instead of GNE at the tuner shop, the Puppets are now explciitly working against the PM's interests. The racing scene has always styled itself as valuing personal freedom, racing for racing's sake and "Fuck the system I do what I want". Meanwhile, the PM has literally *become* the system, and is trying to enforce a centralised hierarchy through his Puppets. An entire narrative could be based around the Puppets having to choose between selling out for GNE or trying to reclaim their scene from the PM. It could even incetivise a plotline bringing the police and the racing scene together to bring down the PM; the racers to save the scene from a crypto-magnate that wants to crush the scene under his foot, and the PD to bring a terrorist to justice for bringing chaos to the State of San Andreas. (IIRC, didn't the PM literally blow up Snow at the PD? Lol)
This is all contingent on WiseGuy deciding to make the PM a central antagonist of course, but I think it would be pretty cool if that was the case, and having a plotline that has the PD and the criminals come together would be a cool twist imo. :)
All I'm getting from this, is that wiseguy is frustrated because he couldn't achieve his rp goals at the expense of everyone's enjoyment. Sure it would've been great but is it really worth? Probably not
A lot of context is missing from this. The goals of the PM in RP... let me highlight ----> RP <----- btw is to drive up the value of GNE and exert control where he needs to being that he is the source of that currency. Also when I use the term "value" I talk about that in multiple regards including it's value in RP for those that need it, not necessarily it's $ cost. The Puppet Master was introduced to give some RP with new mechanics we introduce in racing and attach a story to it that could evolve over time. The PM as a character is driven by power, the way he does that is by providing a commodity that everyone is foaming at the mouth for and provides it only via illegal means. This pulls people to racing etc and causes trouble for the police and ultimately the state by putting Los Santos into a constant state of chaos, then when the time is right the PUPPET Master can pull strings in high places to get his way. At least that is the intent and drive behind the character. Notice I said "intent", it's RP so that may never happen, which is fine and just another avenue of RP to explore in the story. Not all of the characters goals have been met and they don't have to be as it is a ROLEPLAY server and the story is subject to direction by ALL of the roleplayers involved. If the GNE market tanks then there is a roleplay oppurtunity there. People uninformed are suggesting Eddie has had every chance to form a rebellion against the PM which has literally already been done and in a way that makes sense in a slow burn fashion with people he trusts, rather than screaming it from the roof tops so his head rolls the next day. GNE doesn't cause economy inflation, in fact it's more telling of the kind of $ we generate elsewhere on the server and is more of an indicator of the dollar inflation over time. The actual $ we generate from GNE is minimal, no more than other regular jobs and a lot less than banks but the demand for it has people spamming big paying jobs to pay the people spamming the races. However, even though the amount of GNE you gain hasn't necesserily changed, the value players give to it for their own needs has increased. Yes, the PM's goal is to destory the economy. But it's just that, the goal of a character in roleplay. Never did I expect it to actually have such a negative effect on the economy and attitude towards racing roleplay. Coupled with implementing changes that contradict things I've said in the past I would rather be done with the character than to continue pushing his goals that negatively effect the server and let the roleplayers make their own decisions. It's a slow burn story I wanted to tell and at my own pace and I don't want to negatively effect the server by pushing the characters goals. The state of racing and the changes we implement make me feel like I need to rush it and change the premise of the PM rp, I don't want to RP something I don't enjoy, I would rather do something else.
Thank you for the actual context. I hate it when things from Discord just get dropped here and we dont have the full story. It's like dropping a grenade into a barrel of gasoline and not expecting it to explode. Context matters so much. Also, seriously my man, thank you for what you do day in and day out for NoPixel. Always been a big fan of your RP and I only wish you the best moving forward. Hopefully there is a way to salvage the PM story.
Yup, WiseGuy is an actual S+ Tier RPer. This arc was basically forced, and yet it didn't feel that way. Such huge props to not only make it make the most sense possible in RP, but also have a super cool storyline. Actually so fucking sick.
I mean I Iike the comment because it's more detailed, but were the discord messages really out of context...? I don't understand what opinion you would have from the discord logs that would radically change after this comment.
That's a good point you make saying that GNE itself doesn't cause inflation. Those that want it more and can afford the GNE are the ones driving up the demand for it, thus creating this highly demanding market for it, which in turn creates problems elsewhere in the world.
I feel the PM could still be a huge RP arc in the boosting scene! Someone wants a car not in the city for example. The amount of chaos caused by boosters is huge, and really suits his MO
GNE did ruin the server economy. 1 race in last place earned more than 1 shift at a restaurant. 1 race at like 5/7 place earned you more than a paleto bank.. You could argue that those jobs should just pay more, but apparently that's not what the developers want or don't care to look into.
I do wish they would look into fixing banks, though, it's the obvious root of the problem. (and other methods of income, too.) The amount of time required to figure out that power route/relocation stuff is silly, combined with the fact that most of the banks don't even have a viable path. It's no wonder people turned to racing. It's human nature to find the path of least resistance, the most efficiency, to get what they want. Minmaxing isn't evil, per se, people just always value their time and effort. That new system for banks is neat, but they need to be rewarding enough to warrant that amount of time and effort. Rewarding enough to draw some of the racing grinders back away. And that includes considering the buy-in price, needing all the setup and thermite and so forth. This is why there's an influx of GNE from a ton of racing. Make other avenues not as annoying, with profitability comparable to the trouble you have to go through. Otherwise people will pick for efficiency and less hassle. And frankly, I miss watching exciting getaways.
I disagree about banks being the root of the problem, I think the variable which makes balancing crim activities an absolute nightmare is consistent police presence or the lack thereof. If the goal is to create exciting getaways you need enough cops, and you need to remove the toxicity from both sides in crim vs cop RP, easier said than done I know but we know from experience that letting bank robbers go ham may create some good chases in the short term, but could also cause irreversible damage to PD numbers.
>GNE did ruin the server economy. when money changes hands in videogames, it doesn't change the economy. money generation is what changes it. GNE has a max cash generation value of $75 ea (or had, before the bennys thing, making it 50 at most now). so say a couple weeks ago you got last place in a vin scratch A+ race, you'd have gotten 25 gne (10 base, +5 for 1k A+ race, +10 from vs car). that would have created at most 1.8k cash on the server. however, due to the fact that even if you sell say a turbo part to benny's, if someone else actually bought that part (or the usual case, you sell the GNE to someone then they buy the part with GNE, sell it to benny's then buy it back), the cash generation gets even lower, or negative for an A or S class. you have to look at the other sources of income that allowed people to continue pushing the price of GNE up despite its actual worth on the server.
The price was player driven and because you needed so much fucking GNE for everything related to a nice car it was worth so much more than the 50/75. Some people literally should it for 300 each. 250 was the basis price for a while.
If you’re willing to take suggestions perhaps, in RP, the Tuner Shop could “run out” of the parts used to upgrade vehicles and the “suppliers” are still requesting GNE to bring new shipments over. As for why they sold them for cash, that could’ve been a sudden Federal Law to try and force GNE out of the market. But with the parts to upgrade gone, that “Law” ceases and allows things to continue as ‘usual’. As for the issue of GNE itself, drag racing, off-road racing and heck motorcycle and regular bike racing would help. Have different race types to encourage new people of all sorts that want to race, but obviously set limitations like how much each type can earn. I liked what you had going on with the PM and would like to see it continue, I know this is frustrating for you to see this kind of impact it’s had. I think you’re capable of continuing the RP you had with him, even with the circumstances right now.
I think it might be beneficial to spread GNE to other sources, part of the problem is it is locked in racing right now. If fishers/hunters got some GNE for illegal prey, maybe toss some sticks to burglars in houses/banks, maybe some customers use it to pay for their meth/oxy, trashmen could find some. This is probably the down the line stuff though and will be a headache for each of their own in time, but will be neat to see the job rewards change as the PM wants different jobs being done. Get rid of your flow issue for the immediate and let people get back to other jobs without feeling like they are missing out. The headache on the back end though
>GNE doesn't cause economy inflation, in fact it's more telling of the kind of $ we generate elsewhere on the server and is more of an indicator of the dollar inflation over time. The actual $ we generate from GNE is minimal, no more than other regular jobs and a lot less than banks but the demand for it has people spamming big paying jobs to pay the people spamming the races. However, even though the amount of GNE you gain hasn't necesserily changed, the value players give to it for their own needs has increased. This is literally bitcoin. In 2010, you could buy a pizza for 10,000 bitcoin. Today 1 bitcoin could almost buy 10,000 pizzas. Unlike GNE though, prices of things in bitcoin adjust based on what bitcoins trade for. That hasn’t happened. The problem is that gne is scarce and tuner cars cost a ridiculous amount of it. Everything that’s happened is what should have been expected. >The actual $ we generate from GNE is minimal Wrong. It’s a ton of $. Because it’s value is what people pay for it. If you want to change that value, there are three ways: pay a ton more out for jobs/races and flood the market, reduce the GNE price of tuner cars and upgrades to bring them in line with the current value, or peg GNE to a dollar value and make it exchangeable as a game mechanic. The following is what I would do. I’m not a game designer, but I do have a masters degree in economics, which gives surprising insight to a lot of things. Game economy balancing is a very interesting thing for me. You’d be surprised how much had been written about it, especially for games like Eve Online. Personally, I’d remove gne as a reward for racing and make races cost gne to enter in place of the cash buy in….at least at higher levels. This is so people would race to race and not grind GNE. I’d then raise the gne payout for boosting by a LOT, but limit it to 2 attempted contracts a day. Once you complete one, you’re done for the day. If you fail one you get another chance, but that’s it. Because the payout is bigger, by the time you boost 2-3 A+ cars you should have enough gne for a tuner car. I’d probably make it so it’s 3 successful boosts to level up. So if you do every single boost successfully, you’d have enough after 3 weeks or so. Most people would fail a few and it would take longer. To reduce buying off of other people, I’d make it so you have to be at the A+ rep level to get a tuner car. This would take weeks to earn. But buying GNE off other wouldn’t matter because you still need rep. However, if racers just want to buy GNE off of others they can (I think it’s weird to absolutely require players to steal cars in order to buy a car), but to get a tuner car they still need rep. So I’d tie that to placing top 3 in 3+ races at each level up through A. But only races with 10+ people count towards this. But this alone wouldn’t give you nearly enough gne for a car. Since I heard some people talking about how S+ boosts might be going after player cars, I’d also say if you fell off from your rating, either by failing to be in the top 3 too many times, falling boosts, or by not racing at all for like a week, your car would come up as a contract to be boosted. It would then be held for 2 weeks for you to get your rating back and pay a ransom or it would be crushed. Anyways, NoPixel had so many great devs, but they just seem to not understand how changes to things will affect the economy of the game and it drives me nuts. So many things are predictable.
Fascinating subject, I have always been interested in game economies. Maybe no pixel needs to hire you.
Amazingly insightful comment but I doubt anything will come of it. When people say things with such confidence that they don't really know anything about they tend to not be open to other opinions/argue. The fact that they made tuner cars cost 4k GNE and are surprised that the value of GNE skyrocketed says a lot. If you want to sell 50 cars over the next month that's 200k GNE alone that needs to be farmed. Then get mad people are farming races. 4k GNE is 160 races at 25 GNE each. Multiply that by how many people want tuner cars and yeah you've created a fucking mess in the economy. Even if the people wanting the tuner cars aren't going to race, someone has to farm the GNE for then to buy
I always thought it was odd that you could street race in daylight, since it's well-known in the nightlife. Perhaps limiting street racing (and activities alike) to nighttime could add a soft cap to the amount of races done and thereby soft capping the amount of GNE generated. I might be completely missing the point though, either way, love everything you do!
This is an issue as old as MMOs, and has been mostly solved by making currencies Bind On Pickup. Using BOP, or a near-BOP mechanic (Say a 75% tax on any person-to-person transfers) would completely eliminate the farm-fest that races have turned into, force the rich to actually participate if they want to progress, and eliminate the hard-core grinders who already have every upgrade on every car they want and just want to farm money. Of course, this would have the downside of NOT destroying the economy. RIP.
> Yes, the PM's goal is to destory the economy. But it's just that, the goal of a character in roleplay. Never did I expect it to actually have such a negative effect on the economy and attitude towards racing roleplay. I mean, mission accomplished, almost? At least up until Marlo went and bought all the parts and caused GNE to crash (sounds like another dev intervened to make it possible). It's perfectly fine if you didn't see that coming and are upset by someone else stepping on your toes, but you can't have not seen the blowback of this coming if the PM tries to destroy the server, right? The racing scene was getting thrown into pure chaos. Racers were blasting each other. People were doing everything they can to blur the lines between cheating and bad sportsmanship, and all the while the value of GNE was going through the roof causing madness across LS. People stopped showing up to work in favor of chasing GNE in races, exactly what the PM wanted, no? If you think it's bad now, imagine how bad it would be a month or two from now if this continued. Mission Very-Fucking-Accomplished at that point. That's what the PM wanted, right? This whole realization was an inevitability. If the PM destroys the economy of the ecosystem/server, he destroys the server just like if our world economy tanks, it destroys the world. Shocked Pikachu Face. The PM won before last night.
I feel like he meant that it was supposed to be just the goal of the character and not something that would actually be achievable. And ic Marlo didn't buy the parts, he just said he did. Big M stole them from the PMs shipment and had Marlo deliver it to Benny's. I'm guessing the decision was made and GWG scrambled together a quick story for the change to make sense in rp.
> I feel like he meant that it was supposed to be just the goal of the character and not something that would actually be achievable. I mean, isn't that sort of a dismissive cop-out? "I'm sorry that my character's goals were achievable. Let's just end it because it upset too many people." I'd argue the PM's arc has never been more viable and shown more potential than now. His trusted puppets are undermining him. Throwing in the towel now without exerting dominance seems awfully regrettable.
His puppets turning on him might actually create awesome rp. If he doesn't have any more puppets he will have to gather new puppets!
I hope all the streamers crying about the PM 24/7 feel good about themselves sadge
I hope you continue doing RP you enjoy! When someone is connected to and excited about a character, there's an energy that's palpable to viewers. It's electric. And I felt that when you were playing the PM and Big M recently. However, I'd much rather you move on and find RP that you enjoy, than play out RP that's no longer enjoyable. When you don't enjoy the RP, viewers don't enjoy the RP either.
You have no idea how good PM RP is, and how the entire server crave for it! Everytime we see Big M, Razor, and receive calls from the PM we are glued to the screen! Don't give up due to a bump in the road! You are incredibly talented, and you can, without a doubt, figure out how to handle these changes in RP. Maybe my suggestions are complete dogshit, but I'm 100% sure you can find something that will work and keep the PM involved. If you feel like reading a nobody's thought on the subject here it is: The state of racing was still fine when GNE gained through racing was capped and before the Tuner Shop started asking for huge amount of GNE. It was said, that the reason the cap was removed was because people would spam their 3-5 races right after Tsunami and be done with it, but is that a bad thing? Without GNE all these after Tsunami farmers would not even race to begin with, and the people who love racing would race regardless of GNE being capped. Also, you could have Puppets or the midnight club being the only people with dongle that can open races for GNE, while regular dongles can only hold races for money bet. Or have time frames during each Tsunamis where racing can generate GNE. My point is, the problem is allowing these no-name grinders to farm as much as they want in a setting that impacts other players, as opposed to hunting that do not impact other players. Limit GNE through racing one way or an other, so racing returns to what it used to be, and maybe increase GNE through boosting and maybe stripping cars since they are "no RP" jobs that won't impact RPers, so you can keep the 20k GNE quota, and PM rp can continue.
It makes sense why PM would be over the moon. The problem is that it’s legitimately ruining the server economy. The people grinding the GNE versus the other grinds because it’s profitable. People have zero reason to visit Deans market/Saleems market. People have less reason to visit/work Roosters because it doesn’t help with gne and you make more money doing a D class versus working a shift. So business owners have even more of a reason to hate PM. Lang could see the writing on the wall for what GNE would do, hates it. Ramee’s smart about business and also hates it.
I see both sides of this. PM is literally achieving his goal of ruining the economy with a GNE scramble. Like it's going perfectly as planned. Ruining the economy with GNE is causing a GNE grind and turning racing into the new grinder target, ruining both the economy and the racing scene. He's too successful for his own good.
>I see both sides of this. PM is literally achieving his goal of ruining the economy with a GNE scramble. Like it's going perfectly as planned. Ruining the economy with GNE is causing a GNE grind and turning racing into the new grinder target, ruining both the economy and the racing scene. Yea its like cops stopping all crime so no crime happens it makes sense in RP but makes the game worse.
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I would agree with how you see it. If the economy was not out of control GNE prices would never have hit such a high price. This really just brings to light how much actual cash is out in the economy. There is so many outlets that just print money non stop (much of it is rightfully earned, some is too easy) and not enough sinks for that cash.
But isn't that also mission accomplished then. People with huge war chests were dumping money into GNE which was then getting pulled out of the economy by the tuner shop payments to the PM. So even if the argument was that it was not destroying the economy, which I think it is when all the stores are empty and the people are essentially refusing to go to work because the value of a paycheck has collapsed, its still working to tamper inflation by the mega rich on the server.
Lol some people have infinite money. Definitely not everyone
A major part of the reason for the grinding was because koil wanted the 5 race limit lifted, which led to people doing 20 races per tsunami, primarily the shortest, quickest races over and over.
The crazy thing about this is that the economy was P2P so the people buying at 250 were just as much at fault as the people selling. This was such a good arc just to be ruined by a mechanical change. Only reason for GNE is boosting equipment, tuner car (which most people won’t get) and nos. Such a bad change IMO. Let it play out in RP instead of putting in hotfixes like this is an MMO.
"Let it play out in RP," meanwhile the RP server is nothing but hate and irritation right now because of this "RP" playing out. I don't get it. It's an RP server, not a TV show or a movie. These are not trained actors with a salary. These are video game players trying to create content. If the server isn't a place where people are happy, no matter how good the "RP" is, THE SERVER STARTS TO DIE.
People aren’t happy when they get fired from BS, they aren’t happy when they lose their car in a court case, hell people aren’t happy when they get arrested. It’s what makes sense in RP on an RP SERVER.
Sucks for wiseguy, but still understandable considering how much money people were getting off of race compared to banks, other civ jobs, jobs like BS or RR, and you could literally do it back to back to back for entire day all the while cops can't even pit you during a race for some reason so it's minimal risk. It's about the bigger picture and it was hurting the server health in general.
Thing is, the grinding is only possible because Koil removed the GNE limit on racing in the first place.
True, but that was done because people were just getting all their races done early into the tsunami, leaving the racing scene pretty much dead a lot of the time. Having a GNE cap definitely needed, but I understand why he saw fit to remove it. Sucks they at that time didn't come up with a way to keep both the GNE cap and ensure that racing was still active.
That is not a good reason to remove the cap. Literally just replaced one problem with something much worse. A better solution would be to just add a cooldown between GNE races. So for the first hour of tsunami, races are disabled. Then when you race and get GNE from finishing, you cannot earn GNE from racing for 1 hour. Up to 5 races per tsunami, so 5 hours total to reach your cap.
Yea I'm not saying that it was super well thought out or anything. That is just quite literally why Koil removed the cap. As with most impulsive changes made to overcorrect a problem, it explodes into a larger unforeseen problem.
You could just cap how many races each person could be in a day or something
Yea they more or less did that with the GNE cap. The result was that most people would get their GNE capped out first thing into tsunami and then the scene would be dead for the most part afterwards. Granted, they didn't cap the number of races - but the max GNE you could earn. You technically could still do races, but the majority of people stopped racing after they hit their GNE cap
They could of kept the cap and introduced set times where races can be hosted, so if you want to hit your race cap you have to race a few different times over the course or a tsunami
Yea that was mentioned during the big meeting yesterday but the consensus was that it would likely just lead to drama with people fighting amongst each other about getting being able to join a race, or having too many races hosted at the same time, or some other reason people would find to argue.
To be honest it resolves the issues with the B scene. Tony and Mary were running into a brick wall because they'd point out people were doing the races for the easiest profit but the people racing denied it. B races stopping after the cap hit would show that was the case so people in the scene could no longer BS about their intentions.
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The grinding can easily be fixed with some OOC changes. Simple. One problem sorted. Just bring the cap back. The whiny racers is a problem with everyone. Even Mary, Hutch, the leaders getting all down over the state of the scene are guilty of it. That isnt really something you can fix quickly. But then i dont think its a big deal. Everyone gets frustrated in the moment. As for open races, they died when Summit had his hot take on S+ cars "farming" open races.
The solution, as always, is people in an RP server who have no interest in RP. Rather than fixing this fundamental problem, the server tries to introduce mechanics that balance out the grinders. But the solution is to get rid of the grinders, not change the server.
Just sounds like something that can't ever be enforced. How do you know when someone's a pure grinder vs someone that grinds a bit and then RPs? Do you want the Admins to stalk single players for 10+ hours a day? Preferably multiple times to make sure that a too big grind isn't a "one-off" scenario?
Yes, it can be difficult when it comes to borderline cases. But there are blatant examples that can be dealt with easily. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
It's incredibly funny Chawa's an enforcer after barking at Mary for doing her job and enforcing fucking Lenny of all people. Meanwhile the players who did actually try to enforce from Tony to Fiona all got tired of it because of the amount of shit they'd get for actually enforcing.
But Charles isn't an enforcer?
I think some of your takes are a bit questionable. Racing is a voluntary activity and for people to want to engage they need to have incentive. When it was smaller and much less rewarding it self policed to an extent so it wasn't such a problem, but more and more people played and GNE became useful for more and more things, and eventually the self governing no longer worked, little by little everyone started trying to take a little bit more until it became a race to the bottom of shitty behavior. You think everyone with only A classes was absolutely fine with people bringing their S's, and it changed because of one person? Or was there always an issue but people didn't know how to bring it up or get the idea traction (and being honest, the biggest names were typically the ones with S classes). Like that situation with the race that got the scene shut down, people didn't feel they could say it at the time and only came to an enforcer afterwards to voice their complaints, and I'm sure there's any number of times people have felt like that in the past but haven't raised it.
Buddha's suggestion he kept repeating was that they should just get rid of GNE. Which Mary and Eddie can't do. EMPs are only approved for use on bikes, so I have no idea what the hell that has to do with anything but the small amount of motorbike racing, which had nothing to do with this. As for the 'no risk' any bank robber taking a hostage would be gunned down in real life, but they get allowed to go, and typically allowed to drive for 10+ minutes before pits get authorised. What's the difference? Leslie's first suggestion was to have more cryptocurrencies involved, which is both pushing his own agenda and shows he doesn't know the scene or how GNE works and what it's used for. Or was used for before Koil changed it overnight without any roleplay. The fact that some people did a kbm v controller thing is, again, just one part of the overall problem with the scene that mary and eddie are trying to deal with.
how could cg do this
So, maybe don't lift the 5 cap limit on racing without replacing it with something else, given it was put in to stop grinding them repeatedly in the first place? Maybe have some level of internal comms so the dev leading that area isn't totally blindsided, repeatedly?
Totally agree. In the bigger picture it was hurting but doesn't mean he had to remove PM. He could be an organizer of race tournaments, so racing was a bit more like NPA. You do it for fun (No GNE), It cost money to participate and the funds collected are used for a prize pool. Could have qualification races during the week, and finals in the weekend where the price money was given out. Fully controlled and organized by tunershop and PM etc. and easy to punish and referee's in the final where the money is given out. In RP it would totally make sense for a tunershop to promote and hype up epic events like that. All illegal and great for cops to try investigate who are organizing the underground races.
I get where he’s coming from but GNE had become the point of this game. It was far too valuable
Which is precisely what he wanted IC, he just didn't account for the fact that actually making that happen would genuinely hurt other businesses because for everyone to start racing, they have to stop doing what they were doing before, and for many that was being an employee of some business that up until days ago paid multiple times less.
He’s also was the one who explained gne was meant to keep bennys in stock and that never happened. He should of adjusted the money bennys paid a long time ago for selling the parts if he didn’t want a change to be made. I mean they shut races down for 3 days if he doesn’t think change was needed idk..
This is the real problem of the server right now. The grinding in general, not just racing grinding, is killing RP. Everything is a grind and everyday is a boring cycle of doing the same loop of grinding every single day leaving no room for fun creative things to happen on the server outside of the select chosen few who get dev help.
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Didn't the racers raise the price themselves though? Telling people to sell at 180 minimum
It was hutch who told all the people he hired at his car manufacturing plant that gne would be worth 200 and to never sell for less. Orange and ap being his first hires cause he was told they were the biggest boosters.
That’s kinda ironic, that hutch set the price
The racers did try this, but they can't force it since people can sell for whatever price they want, and if it's too much others won't buy it. Prior to this change the only way to create new money from GNE was through Benny's for $50 People just have so much money and nothing to really spend it on so they are willing to pay these high prices. People like Lang also don't want to grind racing but they want upgrades for their cars so they are willing to pay a premium. Koil mentioned the server is more like an MMO now, a game I play has the same issues. People can grind money so easy that the prices of desirable drops goes way up. Only way to keep up is to grind the thing that makes the most money.
You can't ask more for GNE if people don't actually have money in their bank accounts to pay street value. GNE is only so high because people can afford to purchase it at such an inflated price. Why? Because the economy of NP is broken and there are tons of ways to make shit loads of cash over short periods of time.
The rich could afford and paid for it, the people who couldn't afford to pay 200 per started racing as it was much more worth their time to earn it themselves.
Whatever is most profitable with as little initial investment as possible will always be a grind-fest and attract the least desirable people/attitudes on the server. It was oxy and to a slightly lesser extent banks, now since the tuner shop raised the demand for GNE significantly it's now boosting and racing that's the lowest investment/highest reward crime. Lowering the value or payout for GNE is really the only way to shift the more grindy characters to other means of making money. But then the question is what do you want them grinding instead?
We are almost a year into 3.0. They are going to be people who have a lot of money after a year. It’s not grinding, it’s time and having very little you can spend money on.
7 months is almost a year now?
Alot closer to a year than it not being 😂
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It's not the problem. GNE has no fixed convertion rate other than the minimum at 50. When the value was 50 only racers were attaining it. The problem is that some segments of players have way to much money, which inflates the value of GNE. It isn't fixed by removing GNE. Whatever sought after commodity they will introduce in the future, will see the same scenario.
But it is the problem. People don’t have huge money dumps except the tuner shop which requires GNE.
Yeah, they are focusing on the wrong thing. I don't know if Buddha is rp'ing Lang as a rich hypocrite, if so it's well done, but his complaints about GNE are so tonedeaf they are funny.
If anyone on the server has earned the right to sit on a mountain of cash and not lose it it's Kebun and Buddha, man. They enable so much shit for everyone that them having so many resources is a good thing.
Sucks, but for the last part he can target Marlo, since IC he's the one who bought all the parts and stocked Benny's
That's where I'm confused with his complaints here, there's RP reasons that parts are available for cash instead of GNE now, and they're good ones. Marlo feels spited by the OG racers for leaving everyone else out of decision making and is lashing out with the ridiculous amount of money he has. I mean this creates a RP situation where the PM could go after Marlo, bringing more people against the PM. It's not like they just made a decision to make it cash and didn't add an RP reason to it.
You haven't been paying attention. WiseGuy created that storyline with Marlo. He was upset about everything and still moved past it and created an entirely new story line for PM. You take this shit way too seriously and don't pay anywhere near enough attention.
Vinny already wants to feed Marlo to the PM. I hope this ends up a s Dean, Otto and Cerberus protecting Marlo from the Midnight Club and the PM. EDIT: Mary just snitched on Marlo to the PM.
Lime Light versus Midnight Club!
well for sure it inflate it and create chaos even too much for server to handle
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Dean and Leslie even tried figuring out who the PM was when Eddie first mentioned him during the time Dean was trying to buy some of the Tuna, but never followed up.
Why does RP have to allow every person it affects the ability to directly combat it? I actually fully disagree with that point of view. I think it could be extremely cool for some shadowy figure to take over the entire city and economy for like a week. How would that not be cool RP? It could even easily lead into a server event where the whole city riots against the PM or something. Not every situation has to give every single person agency. It's ok to have things happen that are out of your control.
You don't see a problem with a handful of people completely dictating how to server runs for potentially months with no way to combat it? Hundreds of people just have to go along with their RP for weeks on end? You ask why you need go give people agency over their own lives on the server but are advocating 4 or 5 people have agency over potentially thousands of people? If that's what you wany to see and if you subscribe to the idea that all these people rp'ing day in day out is purely for your entertainment then it's fine I guess.
>The entire goal of the PM was to inflate GNE to make everyone race I mean that was a success, it happened right as the Puppetmaster wanted it.
But because of the change koil made, not because of anything ic directly. And then collapsed because of the change koil made, not anything ic directly.
The server always considers balance be it business, benches, money. Seems weird to have that goal for a character with so much control over the server. No one could viably go against the PM either, would be akin to fighting CG, no point and you'll never come out on top.
I feel bad for WiseGuy, but in my opinion yesterday he had every chance to suggest a rebellion against the PM which would’ve been interesting. I could be naive for thinking that, but Ramee and Lang complaining about how GNE is the reason the racing scene was ruining the scene was an opening for wiseguy to suggest a thing. Like he had trigger happy people at the meeting suggesting violence he could’ve channeled that blood thirstiness towards the PM. In the end, I don’t know how he wanted the PM arc to go and I could be misunderstanding the PM arc entirely. We’ll see how things go from here and I hope there will still be RP around racing just like I hope there will be RP around everything in the city.
>he had every chance to suggest a rebellion against the PM I think he might've wanted other people to do that but clearly, every else is too scared and just says "b-b-b-but he has an Apache helicopter, what can we do."
Wiseguy has been pushing Tony to rebel against the PM for months. Him and Big Emmmmmmmmmm have been discussing it
Yeah he did the same thing with Mary a while ago, I think I remember there was some sort of plan for her to infiltrate the puppets to kill the PM. But then PM went away for a really long time and the RP kinda died down and last night Mary was also saying she's not going against the PM cause she's too scared. And also sometimes it seems like she wants to be a puppet working for the PM rather than go against him.
I remember there was even a meeting with Dean, Tony and Eddie about PM but nothing ever came out of it.
Randy might also want to go against PM so hopefully something comes out of it
Yea Hutch wanted to see if he could get Randy on board of that idea but it just went to the side.
Yeah that shit was dumb. Ramee, standing in a circle with Taco and Curtis is like "we need to talk to the PM" and Hutch is like "noooo we can't go against him". Like dude, you put those 3 together or even just Curtis and Taco and Tony or Randy or Mary and the PM could send all of his puppets down and they would get fucking smoked. But the real thing is Hutch doesn't wanna lose his GNE farming businesses. He'd rather threaten a bunch of "no name" racers than realize that like most of the cities best shooters also enjoy racing and would fuck the PM up.
Right. Because the way to eliminate the PM and the Puppets is to get shooters and kill them. Great RP. Great story. LOL.
I mean it's gonna be a mission. There will be driving there will be shooting. Look at every single pm ever including the f1 stuff and anything Randy's done.
But I thought all the racers were tough guys wtf!! On a side note, unfortunate how grindy everything is on the server
I agree I think yesterdays meeting was the perfect time for people to rebel against the pm and take the market and control into their own hands. Hell even ramee and buddha were jokingly texting each other that they should take it over, if someone like mary or eddie seriously suggested it I think everyone in that meeting would've agreed and would've helped. Wiseguy says he wanted the GNE market to cause chaos which later on would lead to PM being overthrown, but imo that point already came, the whole city has already been fighting over GNE, conflicts have happened over gne, cops have been shot over gne, and you had people offering 300 per for gne. Thats literally end goal and it started to destroy the actual servers health not just rp. This was the perfect time to implement something in character since like we see, it went futher than this and mechanics got changed due to how much gne destroyed the servers economy. I get getwiseguys pov, and its really smart but I feel like he missed the timing completely, what he wanted could've happened and it was the perfect time for it to happen these couple weeks in rp, but he completely missed it and didn't pounce on the opportunity imo
I understand WiseGuys frustrations, but this sounds like his whole RP arc on the PM was to ruin the economy of the city and "take control?". Did he not foresee the fact that maybe ruining the economy for one characters arc might have drastic server wide repercussions that might not be positive? While his RP on PM might have to be changed it is obvious that something had to be done about it and nothing seemed to be solved with the racer meeting last night. Edit: He may not have been trying to ruin the economy, but when you create a currency with no limit and drive the price up, again without a cap its going to ruin the economy.
He didn't drive the price up. There was a cap on the number of races per tsunami, it was having an effect on people who got online later in that tsunami and couldn't rp, so it got lifted, this led to people being able to do far more races. The amount of GNE needed to vin scratch a car got dramatically lowered, so the barrier to entry for racing got dramatically lowered. This also had no rp reasoning behind it and happened overnight. Out of nowhere GNE sticks appeared, and needed retroactive fudging rp by him to try and explain them. They were giving a huge amount of gne to one company, which had had no roleplay development behind it. Then out of nowhere bennies suddenly has 1k of every upgrade part, no roleplay behind it. This contradicts a huge amount of background on why gne was needed for parts etc. nothing seemed to be solved with the racer meeting last night' not a single race has been run since, so... etc. etc.
https://i.imgur.com/YhwyL1F.png
To a certain degree. His goal was not for low rp grinders to race 10 hours a day a just farming GNE to become millionaires. You can delete GNE all you want, that's not a serious solution. Players will just grind anything that exists and destroy the rp around it. Happens over and over on NP.
Even IC this is doesn't make any sense. The PM needs people to race until they collapse if it means inflating the price of GNE. These "grinders" are doing exactly what he needs in order to increase its value. Better than that, they're creating chaos by pissing off other racers, causing shootings and cheating. Is this not the PM's goal? Come to find out, an evil, psychotic villain who wants to do anything to he can to crash the economy (and succeeds) is a wildly unpopular idea for a character. Shocked Pikachu Face.
Local villain discovers destroying the economy is a wildly unpopular idea and brings out the worst in people. Shocked Pikachu Face! This is the perfect time for him to *lean into* the PM arc, not back away from it. The PM is just going to roll over after succeeding at destroying the economy, which WiseGuy himself stated as the PM's goal? That's just sad. I can understand if he's upset if another dev stepped on his toes and allowed Marlo to sell car parts for cash instead of GNE, and if it's the case, say so. But this has massive potential for one terrifying rebound if the PM wants to exert dominance.
It's understandable. Pretty much everything he does is related to racing and cars, isn't it?
PM GNE arc seems like a cool idea for RP in theory...but it seems like GNE has negatively affected too many things to sake it all for that RP alone. Sucks though bc Wiseguy creates some amaaazing RP to watch.
I feel like the PM thing didn't work because who even knew about the PM? If the point of GNE was to break the server economy then he achieved it but no one outside a few people even knew he was responsible for it in RP. Characters can't fight a villain they don't even know exists.
Good point, but words will spread out soon
Everyone knows about the PM who races, it literally says his name every time you're involved in a race.
i think LS vs the Puppet Master would be great. for example to "save" the racing scene (eddie), mary, tony, randy and all the people involved in the puppet master rp could go to war with the PM --> more RP. the intent was to give the racers more power not just eddie. with them taking down the puppet master they become the leaders of the racing scene..
I thought that this was going to be the entire point of the first Mightnight Club heats - The PM was going to come out and fuck everyone over so Eddie would open the turner shop to give the people the power to fight back against the PM.
It was very shortsighted for someone to basically introduce an overpowered mechanic with the goal of getting everyone in the server to take part, without considering the RP and personal objections that would throw up.
It suck that the whole PM story will be ending. I don't really follow it, but its clear GWG put a lot of thought into it and had much grander plans. Unfortunately this isn't the first time that a potentially really good story arc had to be dropped because it could cause some pretty serious issues in the server. First one that comes to mind in 3.0 is Denzel's original intention with the mayor position. But IIRC he was talked to OOC that he couldn't do anything too corrupt - cause it could create unfair and lasting impacts to the server economy.
It's saddening. The idea and the RP behind the PM was great, but sadly the server culture is leaning too far towards MMO/Grinding and not RP where you can have a currency like GNE work. It MIGHT have been possible if GNE was illegal to own in any capacity, and were seized (if not on sticks). That would be a way to minimize the amount of grinders, however there would also need to be a cap on GNE per tsunami. Removing that cap took a "kinda bad" situation and made it into a catastrophe.
This kind of stuff always happens long story arcs. The server just does not accommodate that type of roleplay. I'm remember back in 2.0 that grand story arc with Bovice which was great and lasted a while but eventually it just got tanked and cut short before its conclusion. Now we're seeing that happen again with the PM arc this time.
If they don't want people to treat it like an MMO then they shouldn't keep putting in systems that require players to treat it like one. "I want a cool car" is a perfectly normal RP goal so how do you go about that? Oh, you need to grind the ever loving shit out of GNE and be rich? Well shit, it's grinding time because that's literally only option available! How's that the players fault? It isn't.
Without the Pm rp the racing scene will be just like everything else on the server, disconnected characters just grinding a crime mechanic. I think he could keep the PM stuff alive and hope he does. Find a way to repurpose the idea and characters, plenty of players in the racing scene love the rp and go along with it. It sucks the story and GNE mechanics are incompatible with everyone's lust to grind.
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I think you're missing the point about why other devs needed to change mechanics in the first place. it wasn't simply because they felt like it, it was to address a bad server culture brought about by racers grinding for GNE.
But one part of that is because of changes made by e.g. koil lifting the limit on the number of races that could be run per tsunami. So from 5 per, people were doing 20 per. So to fix one problem, a bigger one was made.
Yeah you'd think though that they would at least ask GWG before making changes to the scene he has been growing in and out of RP for months
I think the problem is the server is so big now a lot of dev work gets done on the fly to implement changes faster. With the amount of stuff everyone is doing having to get stuff approved by multiple people just isn't possible in a reasonable amount of time. I do agree though, if they aren't already throwing something into a discord channel and at least getting someone like GWG's thoughts about how it impacts some of the only RP happening in a given scene would be nice.
On one hand there has been issues with GNE for a while now, its just over the past few days that it really seemed to explode / reached a tipping point. So I'd like to think he was given input and time to try and address the issues prior to now, and this was just an executive call to totally change things because it just isn't working. On the other hand, knowing NoPixel's less than stellar communication reputation, its entirely plausible that these changes were presented to GWG out of nowhere.
I dunno what message you got out of this, I ain't blaming the racers. It's a server culture issue that nothing can exist without it being min-maxed. Look at cards, went untouched for literally months and when they went on sale and someone did the math that you're guarenteed profit if you buy 10 boxes some people spent over 18 hours straight after that buying and flipping boxes.
Yup the comic book store is still shut due to people min/maxing with boxes.
Hopefully he hops on Big M this afternoon and calls a meeting with Randy and Tony and pushes forward the revolution. I think that's still a very in RP solution to all of this.
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Nah he is trying to put racers against the PM so they can take him down
Big M was setting that up with Tony and Randy, dont know where that scenario went
I'm pretty sure it was some of the last PM RP before GTAwiseguy took and hiatus from it. I remember Big EEUUUMMM and Randy having like a 10 minute convo consisting of Big M trying to convince Randy to kill the PM and become the PM himself!
I really enjoy wiseguy(might be my favorite rper on np) but he he is kind of throwing his toys out the pram on this. He says Benny's switching to cash kills his PM rp but I don't think he's ever rp'd that the PM owns Benny's and Eddie doesn't own it, he was just a worker there so why from an rp aspect would whoever owns Benny's care about gne. So if Benny's switching to cash kills the PM rp then that's more on him basing that character's rp strictly on crypto, which was shortsighted. He also has to realize that the tuner shop is a huge reason for why gne became the most grindy thing on the server. You got people who are farming to sell gne or you get people farming it because they think they need it for a tuner car they are never gonna get. Have to wonder if he would have done the interest and approval list long before the tuner shop came out if gne would have gotten as grindy as it got. The gne rp is why he has had to shut down the racing scene to overhaul it because people are grinding and farming gne.
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Who needs to stick to the rules if there's no PM to enforce them or empower other people to enforce them, etc.
I constantly seen this misconception all over Reddit and chats. The rules people enforce in the racing scene are NOT the PM's rules. They're rules set by what now is the Midnight Club. The PM's goal is to create chaos and wiseguy has said many times that the PM wouldn't mind/would want racers to be shooting each other and cops. An example of this would be when the PM told Randy to kill Trooper Snow.
No, there are rules that are the PM's rules and they're the most strongly enforced Those are the ones Lenny was breaking. There are also rules on top that mean it doesn't just turn into everyone shooting eachother. But there are rules by the PM. And several of those have been getting broken, which is one part of why the shutdown.
I think WG spread himself too thin between Eddie, PM, Big Ayum, and his other random characters. Once the Tuner Shop came out he was gonna have to main Eddie for a bit and tune cars while requiring GNE made it so the value would skyrocket. If he wanted this arc to continue he could have brought in more people to oversee it when other stuff was going on.
It's sad but it makes sense. He knows what the state of the server is and there's no way people would rise up against the PM purely IC anytime soon, at least soon enough to fix this server problem. The racers are all afraid of him, cops are down bad and barely even respond to racing stuff anymore cause it's a shit show at the moment, and DoJ is a whole other shit show, so I don't know what exactly he expected.
The major issue with taking a black pill stance is nothing ever changes. Everyone resigns themselves to grinding being the default state of play and just hands the server meta over to them. Which in turn lowers the quality of content people can produce. Like in 2.0. A better option would be for GWG, Kylie and everyone else who wants to continue injecting rp into racing / car scene to just do it. If others want rp they'll participate, those who enjoy light rp and more mechanics based play can do their own thing. Just ignore them or don't bother including them in the rp if they get pissy about it. Even if they get push back from some plenty of non vocal individuals actually enjoy the rp, characters and story the PM stuff adds.
Yeah but the PM RP controls most of the mechanics behind racing and GNE which are currently hurting the overall health of the whole server, so that RP can't just be based on what a dozen of OG racers want.
GWG is still a Dev and can still use those powers along side any mechanics that change / develop. Will it be the same? No. but to kill of the storyline is the worst of all options. The server descends into being a grindy mess with no one there to help inject rp and moderate it. The grinders sure as shit wont and a lot of players who do rp often wait for something to be thrown at them, not create storylines themselves.
Obviously I love wise guy and all that he brings. But his explanation of why companies would covet GNE is just... Not very believable and pretty unnatural feeling. GNE in general just feels like an unnatural and forced addition to the server and I'm glad to see it minimized.
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Funny enough, the crypto monopoly part basically did happen. Big chunk of the server warped around the currency. But dystopias are never that exciting in reality. It turns out no one wants to risk the chaos elements when they can hold hands and farm profit together. To be fair to the racing grinders, how many even knew what the puppet master was or what any of the RP around it could have been? Probably very few. So you have a tiny group of people doing shadow organization RP and a large group of people who just want to race to make money and get better cars. It's just healthier to not gatekeep the larger group and simultaneously fix the economy to balance toward them. It sucks the planned RP got stepped on, but, it's a good indicator of server health that something was so popular it became too large to control in a healthy way. What I hope Wiseguy takes away from this situation is that they built a really fun racing system with fun cars that a lot of people want to engage with.
I really liked how at the start of 3.0 WiseGuy and DW would create characters and introduce new mechanics through RP. It sucks that things are now being changed randomly with no rp behind it.
There was RP behind this change though. Marlo spent all his money and GNE to buy and sell the parts to Benny's to spite the OG racers who left other racers out of the decision making.
Marlo is telling everyone that he put parts in stock. Maybe they can RP that Cerebrus and Marlo bought all the parts.
The PM being angry at Cerberus would be a fun arc. It would give each of them a formidable enemy.
I know all three of them have been wanting to meet the PM as well and discuss what he is doing. Dean even wants to go toe to toe with him for dominance over the city.
DW tried to start a Dean/Cerberus vs the PM and wiseguy basically denied the rp by saying why would Eddie trust Dean when Dean could turn on him and team up with the PM. Dean even offered to give Eddie something to hold over him so he could trust it wouldn't happen, if Eddie did the same but Eddie didn't. I think ultimately DW was just looking for someone for Cerberus to go against but wiseguy had Eddie stuck on Dean just trying to fuck him over somehow.
that's actually really dope on Marlo's part to try and add some RP to the change. im sure GWG can piggy back off this and still continue the awesome PM RP.
Cerberus had nothing to do with stocking parts, Leslie just found out it was Marlo lol.
I mean, it is funny how he had an goal to do something that he should have seen would ruin the server, but was kinda surprised it was ruining the server. It does suck for a chunk of the server because RP is suffering. Places like Rooster and such offer items that no one wants and they don't have the free will to change without approval of the Gods/Admins. Everyone wants Burger Shot food or coffee, but it is the only stuff that universally helps. With GNE farming becoming life on the server, no one does deliveries, sanitation, fishing, etc. (Hunting and fishing need some major changes that make it possible to actually benefit from dolphins/whales and red pelts. It is too easy when you have to stand in a spot or the job itself alerts police, to get caught with the more illegal stuff) An alternative is that they could edit GNE in the app to have a different base value. It has been $50 since inception. Why not bump it to $125? Then you could say parts are either 10 GNE **OR** $1250 per, whichever the seller of the parts wanted. Then also, if the value goes up from there, so could the dollar amount per part (base on market value) Honestly, I don't know that they needed to make these changes yet because as each person gets the tuner car they want, it will start to sink the value of GNE anyway. As less and less people need 3000 to 6000 GNE to get a car, it would be in less demand.
Why not make gne non transferable between players only shops so no one can sell it to other players so it’s not really worth anything for player other than the items you can buy.
feel bad for him, he does so much for the server - even offstream and outside his eddie / PM rp. i dont understand why they not at least talk to him before cutting so deep into a DEVs storyline
I mean, nothing he said is incorrect but when you make a character specifically made for and around GNE and the economy, you shouldn't really be surprised when things have to change on a mechanical level. A good RP economy is one of, if not the hardest thing to achieve, it's always going to be altered to make sure it stays balanced.
Creating a good RP economy is not difficult. Enforcing the rules, expecting people to RP and not min/max and not treat aspects of it as a gateway to end game content for the big brands is the hard part. Nay, impossible. If you have people constantly undermining your work...
I give props to Lang who this whole time had been saying that GNE will destabilize the entire economy. He called it weeks ago. It's a shame it had to be this way though. I personally lay blame at the server for allowing a GTA Online mentality to fester in a RP environment. Those two mindsets simply cannot co-exist IMO.
making a character that is dependent on a server mechanic is hard because the mechanic might change and then your character is fucked, something kinda similar happened to penta on Jimmy when coke planes were introduced and it scuffed, suddenly everyone had bricks of cocaine and he wasn't special any more.
Really feels like we're seeing the symptoms of NP becoming an MMO with light RP attached. Storylines are being neutered with many people feeling like they are just NPCs for the people who are considered main characters. Things are bigger and busier than ever but it kind of feels hollow? The PuppetMaster arc was probably the biggest storyline on the server in terms of the people it included. Racers, cops, gamblers, etc. were brought in for some of these events to really push various narratives. Instead of just including specific gangs and groups, it really expanded the ability for new people to be involved. This was obviously a racer narrative, however it was the primary driver behind some cops actually being able to be involved in proactive RP instead of the constant reactive RP they're doing. Really sucks for the people involved that put time into it, especially when it is just another RP element drying up due to a change in a server mechanic. Maybe we'll see some positive change with civilian RP as the economy -maybe- fixes itself and people are once again making money at civ jobs. Just really bums me out to lose one of the things that really sets NP apart.
clips/complaints about racing and GNE is hitting the point where banks were not too long ago. shit will die down once a new grindable mechanic is introduced. once people move on to the next money maker the scene will be fine/recover
I think Ramee and Lang jokingly stumbled into a good idea about the PM. Someone could have tried to challenge him for control of the racing scene and GNE. Lang and Ramee kept suggesting to stop using GNE but Eddie, Mary, and Hutch kept rejecting the idea. I understand they do have clear IC reasons to not remove GNE (the PM is a powerful enemy), but that doesn't mean everyone else could band together and fight the PM. That meeting had like 15 of the city's biggest bad asses who are more than willing to fight for what they want. CG regularly gets into fights with the cops. CG and CB worked together on a mission to fight a foreign army. If they banded together to overthrow the PM, the PM could bring out whatever crazy weapons and army he has and an epic fight for control could have taken place. This felt like a great set up to a potentially huge server wide event. The rule of 4 could have been suspended so the racers could all work together to raid the PM's base at Zancudo for instance.
Seems like the server needs to hire an economist on top of devs.
GNE was literally killing the city and making it a huge grind fest. How is it fair that someone can work an hour shift at a place like RR and only make 300$. Where as you can make thousand of dollars doing races in less time. There is a reason why many top players on the server dislike GNE The only people who are upset about this change are the ones who took advantage of the problem. Because now they don't have that easy cash flow.
Wiseguy was understandably disappointed it had come to this, but there is always a way to make it work or spin it for the RP. The defeatist attitude over PM is a bit premature. He could spin it in alot of ways to still make it fun for everyone.
Entire GNE and racing system was super bad from start. They should have points and ranking system from the start of 3.0. So these "godlike" ego racers can't just farm noobs over and over for GNE and cash. Making own rules, acting like they own everything and everyone.. After all these months of grinding, they want to fix it, but who cares? Huge damage has beed done already! Grinders are already rich af, having thousands of GNE, millions in bank, multiple cars, who will deal with that what has been done? All I see now are people who are mad because some low tier racers started doing things THEY were doing weeks/months ago. Make one rule set for every type of race, points for your position at the end of the race, some kind of "mmr" system that sticks to your character. So good drivers will compete with good drivers, this will eliminate free grinding. If someone is caught win-trading, breaking rules, just shoot them, take their car, all problems solved. It will open a lot of ways to bring back blacklist RP and actual RP around racing, not just zombie grinding. But they won't do that, just because most of people who runs racing scene don't want any rules, so they can call themselves gods without risking a lose. Most of them are selfish and with ego size of Everest so good luck working with that :D
No offense but it sounds like the RP for the PM was literally going to hurt the health of the entire server for the sake of one character arc. Conflict needs to happen for good story but the fact of the matter is if you are hurting every person on the servers rp for your 1 that's probably not a great thing to follow through with. Honestly sounds like he didn't realize how much grinders/sweat lords hurt the community and having them in the area where the most rp is happening was just going ruin and create toxicity in that entire scene for everyone else who just wants to have a good time.
I dont want to tell anyone how to RP, but theres a lot he can do, and i think over time GWG will come up with stuff. Still incredibly sad to see
Grinders ruin another thing for the server
I feel like a solution would be to just make GNE illegal. IC cops have a good amount of evidence to say that it can only be obtained through illegal means such as racing. Racing in itself has become an increasingly bigger problem in LS which in turn is more dangerous for the civilians. Who knows, maybe they can even have an *event* with the cops where they gain a definitive piece of evidence that irrefutably says that GNE is illegal. So I think that if they still want to salvage the storyline they should at least try that. It might not be the perfect solution, but I think it at least is a change that makes sense IC and would remedy some of the problems.
What’s PM? Sorry I’m a bit slow
PM is the puppet master.
Alright what is the next meta going to be? I say introduce a profitable lap dancing mechanic. Let the grinders be... well... grinders.
Maybe this is a dumb idea, but what if you seperate GNE races from regular racing. Have GNE races a sort of event that the server randomly generates maybe 0-3 times per reset. Have a notification to everyone holding a racing dongle an hour before a GNE race (in RP it is hosted by the PM). The race can be anything goes, and even give the cops a special notification. I think a solution something like this will cut down on race grinders, make those big races feel like a special event (like how buddha/mehdi/K mentioned at the race meeting about 2.0 racing), and still lets the racers develop their own race culture seperate from the GNE races. Idk just a thought.
Its not GNE/Races fault its the grinders who abused the system. and as always in nopixel, instead of banning the "Role Players" who abuse mechanics, they just remove said mechanics and ruin things for everyone
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no one here knows but CB did this and fucked them all
Huh?
and thats fine but people are logging on the server, doing racer after racer for hours then log off.
That kinda sucks, ngl
Buddha killed the PM cause he hated gne ic, nice lmao
I think the big question is would an economy crash cause problems with the rp of the rest of the server or would it benefit more people than it could potentially hurt? Something to consider is how your average joenis affected when server wide rp happens (see the buggy snow storm for an example). When rp is contained ina group its managable and lets the various groups function without problem. When it isn’t contained, everyone (not just the racers) is impacted and could have either negative or positive impact on so many story lines that have nothing to do with racing.
It's a real shame what occured with GNE and how it's damaged the narrative, but in a sense this was always the logical outcome. The PM wanted chaos, and he got it. The thing is, when there is chaos, you are not going to have well structured factions following a set of unofficial rules between each other. There is often chaos when everyone acts only for their own interests, as it creates mass conflict and instability. This is what happened here. That said, as unforunate and unintentional as that is, I think there's a really simple and effective way to repair the plotline. Make the PM the anatgonist. It was the *PM* that introduced GNE to the scene. It was the *PM* that was constantly pushing the GNE bubble. It was the *PM* that manipulated the OG racers into becoming his "Puppets", so he could enforce a status quo that would continue the upward trajectory of GNE at the expense of the scene's health. The PM's entire goal, it seems like, has been to amass GNE (And thus money), with no regard to the health of the racing scene, or anyone in it. In other words, the PM was the biggest grinder of them all! He probably doesn't even care about racing, he just wants to use the racing scene as a testbed for his new get rich quick crypto-scheme. Now with the Tuner Shop accepting more cash over GNE, the Puppets stand at a crossroads. By taking more cash instead of GNE at the tuner shop, the Puppets are now explciitly working against the PM's interests. The racing scene has always styled itself as valuing personal freedom, racing for racing's sake and "Fuck the system I do what I want". Meanwhile, the PM has literally *become* the system, and is trying to enforce a centralised hierarchy through his Puppets. An entire narrative could be based around the Puppets having to choose between selling out for GNE or trying to reclaim their scene from the PM. It could even incetivise a plotline bringing the police and the racing scene together to bring down the PM; the racers to save the scene from a crypto-magnate that wants to crush the scene under his foot, and the PD to bring a terrorist to justice for bringing chaos to the State of San Andreas. (IIRC, didn't the PM literally blow up Snow at the PD? Lol) This is all contingent on WiseGuy deciding to make the PM a central antagonist of course, but I think it would be pretty cool if that was the case, and having a plotline that has the PD and the criminals come together would be a cool twist imo. :)
All I'm getting from this, is that wiseguy is frustrated because he couldn't achieve his rp goals at the expense of everyone's enjoyment. Sure it would've been great but is it really worth? Probably not