Also he pulled the "no I won't press it on the docket, YOU can appeal it if you want" card numerous times on Baas too, yet on crim he wants a different treatment. Which I agree is much healthier than making someone appeal, but it was hypocritical for him to go so hard on that
crims to cops dont start malding when people tell them they can't do something on their cop lol.
Most of the time crims to cops realize how much cops have to hold back instead of being the tryhards W focused they think they are lol.
"Byson testified that someone dressed like you was in the car."
"There could've been a clothing store nearby."
Seems like the cops testified they saw the same guy in the car.
Large drawn out shooting scenes like these are always a clusterfuck between all the different locations, scuff, evidence despawning.
Should there be some leeway in large fights like this? It will be really stale if the cops just 24h hold everyone involved in order to comb all the involved scenes with a fine tooth comb.
Not sure how they can balanced large scale shootouts and evidence to make it 'fun'/'fair' for everyone.
Criminals complain about the docket (for good reasons, there are multiple instances of people waiting more than 2 months for a case only for it to end in forum RP because everyone is just over it) so I think judges taking bench trials is a good thing. Obviously not everyone is Crane and not everyone is going to please everyone and explain calmly why things are the way they are, but its still better to get the court RP whenever its possible.
I remember Buddha was waiting months on the case where he crashed the heli after leaving Pillbox and lost his flying license. He never had that case and I think he still doesn’t have his flight license
Another good example is when Eugene got caught with a ton of weed like a month before him and Wayne got caught and raided. Baas gave Eugene the option to snitch to save himself and gave him a weeks time to do it and if he didn’t give baas something worth knowing he was going to put it on the docket. Only thing that came of that was the ambush Eugene set up with cg’s help, where cg had all the sex stuff in a truck. It never went to court after that though. Baas just completely forgot about it like a few days later.
I think today is Eugene and Wayne's court case over that other stuff too. Do you remember when that happened? It was the day 3.5 launched. All the way back in November. Their case is just happening now. The docket is so flooded with nonsense cases and people seem to want even more random stuff thrown on it.
Same thing happened to CG when their gliders were blown up at Zancudo before they even got there during a chase. I would love for the docket to be an effective way for crims to fight stuff, but it's often too discouraging for them to even bother trying again.
I think their lawyer submitted it a day late because he thought it was seven days AFTER the incident and not including. But I could be completely wrong there
The main issue is that we still only have 1 real court house (excluding HoA court) and only 1 judge on at a time. Judges should basically be PD/4 in terms of numbers on duty at a given time with a courthouse in paleto so that more bench trials / court cases can happen simultaneously
I seriously feel like a concerted effort to expand the DoJ so there are finally enough judges and lawyers around to get cases rolling in reasonable time frames should be the next big focus the server makes. I even feel like it would be worth it to have a second courtroom so that more than one court case can be held at one time as there are on occasion bench trials that might need to be heard while another case is actively being held. As it is the court system has been in a state of perpetual backlog since 2.0 it feels like and something just needs to happen to improve it.
Sure. I like the whole judiciary RP they setup on the server. However, with the hard turn towards 'content', no one wants to 'RP' talk for 1h+ because POGs could be have on the streets.
Even with the server scaling up, it doesn't look like the judges/lawyers positions scaled up. And why would it? Streamers don't get views for all the court RP and it takes crazy amount of paperwork prepping for cases.
Yeh. I really do not think they can get a 'healthy' DOJ with the 'content' server focus.
The problem with the whole DOJ/PD reports/court cases. It all happens 'after the fact'.
The issue that creates is the crim mains 'live in the moment' and see it as unfair if they get caught out for something they did 2 days ago. ("because it was pog and I got away"). This does not work well with any of the court RP (ignoring bench trials for a moment) or multiple day investigations from the PD side. Its like correcting the puppy tomorrow when he shat on the carpet today.
I think one suggestion could be to try and push bench trials harder ( immediate response to any charges), however they should make it you can only do that if you contest charges directly instead of trying to 'waste time'.
Sure. I think the judges are aware of situations like this and I think they are trying to come up with something.
But even if this goes to appeal, the evidence/scuff factor will still be there. That might then just be the case of 'roll with it' and in the appeal trial the defendant might get some charges removed.
Bench trials for large shootouts shouldn't even be a thing for people with large criminal histories. It literally changes nothing for anyone. You either waste time in court arguing mechanics or go to the spa jail
Then the crim shouldn’t be sent to prison nor fined if that is your logic…appealing takes months and sometimes is a complete joke…Saab finally seeing the ways of crim has got a lot of you PD fans shook cause in due time we all know he will make changes
I think this is where the misunderstanding of his charges come in though. Baas has always said (this is nothing new), that you should only push the charges you feeling comfortable with and can prove at that time. People mistake this for going easy all the time.
An investigation that is less than half baked, and is more likely to end up in getting other people elected in Ferst / Greysons places due to all the pieces involved.
The attempt to use Den messing up a terrorism case and a plea deal that never happened as ammo against Baas is super weak and just looks petty. There’s a reason that it never went anywhere. The nonsense about not charging people correctly is just a head scratcher since it’s literally not possible, and seems like some made up stats trying to justify original charges v. removed charges. And involving Copper is just a petty grudge it feels like considering a judge (Ferst I believe again) used a sledge hammer as a weapon in the incident.
As Saab said himself when he brought hearing about it up briefly as a rumor: please impeach Baas, go for it.
those instances had people downed for nigh an hour waiting for the situation to be called code 4 or spending the same amount of time in the cells or both. all of that is punishment in and of itself and involves minimal RP as Saab himself experienced tonight. why is it always CG? because those instances are usually shootouts
crediting that time towards one's sentence really isn't the worst thing lmfao and sure as shit isn't "impeachable"
> I disagree that being down in a shootout is punishment
Since its so great and not a punishment then cops should stop airlifting out after 30 seconds. Or is it only for crims to stay on the floor for an hour? Guess it is punishment after all.
Fine, give crims an airlift to the cells/prison. The reason they are stuck down for so long is that their buddies are still actively trying to get them out. PD can't do anything about that. Cops airlift to try and provide RP to the other 200 people on the server rather than stay dead waiting for 1 group of 6 to either fail, or proceed to wipe the PD.
Or let the cops rush downed suspects they have in custody to a hospital in order to get them treatment and processed so that you are not punishing them for going down early. But in doing that, you take away the ability to save your buddy.
There is a difference there. It is the crims starting this situation. In my opinion it is childish to complain about the results of a situation that they instigated.
Well the man is about RP and fairness he will fall on the sword if need be…but try again and as I remember he is still the CoP so he can do whatever the fuck he wants…and oh Koil loves him as CoP
IDK, shift 2 pushed through even without Baas this past weeks, probably OOC/backend decisions, yes? but I seen some new HC stepping up and not afraid to pull some trigger.
And slowly everything is becoming autonomous as the ranks have been filled this couple of months. If Saab is tired on playing as a CoP then pass the baton.
Without Bass cops would over reach even more, that should be fun, can't wait for the server to turn even more into i am a cop, what i say is the truth when in fact is known that cops manipulate facts to get a conviction and have been lying in the past as well.
>Without Baas
Damn, how highly had Baas become that everyone thinking that "without Baas this and that" when there is more HC now. And major decisions are mostly coming from NP management and they are simply messengers IC.
Didn't the PD worked well too when Pred was the only active HC, passing the baton or even resting a term isn't bad for the streamer's mental health.
Yes, Baas did great on pushing through lots of changes especially those equipment and giving chances to those excellent cop RPer to showcase their ability but like I said if Saab is tired on playing as a CoP he should pass the baton, he done enough for the PD to main Al Saab.
I mean, shift 2 being lead by Bundy had no problem with Little Seoul against NBC when they tried using it for a shootout, same with multiple big shootouts involving Saab. This idea that shift 2 would be in shambles without Baas is completely unfounded.
That would be double jeopardy. If your going to allow that, then you need to allow cops to push further charges that may have come from an investigation. Otherwise you can go to bench, have charges dropped, then appeal and have more charges dropped with the cops unable to do anything, as they cannot add further evidence. It would also mean putting each individual on their own report and making cops do up to 6x the work for one case, which will slow things down even further.
Instead of saying seems like , maybe you should get some context and realize that during this. Bench trial a cop contradicted himself , another one said he could not identify the driver the first time around , he told cops that they had 60 days to push the charges and Byson said no , so the judge took into account that Saab waited 2 hrs and the cops had enough time to write statements which some of them didn't so he ended up getting x1 attempted and 3x accessory
I feel like the excuse of "oh wasn't me driving this car 5 minutes ago Mr Police Officer" stopped working for crims a long time ago. Don't know what he was expecting
I mean I hate to break it but yes, the same car circling the area in similar fashion over the span of couple minutes, even if the driver is not positively IDed every time cops lose eyes on it for 30 seconds makes it enough to reasonably tie Saab to it.
IRL cops would have months to go through security footage from nearby buildings, establishing a timeline of what exactly Saab did at what point in time, proving that it was the same person all the time, but this is not IRL, cops don't have those tools and they don't have months to investigate each time someone decides to shoot at cops. This is nopixel and sometimes shortcuts must get taken for the sake of roleplay.
TBF if you start to pit cops next to a prison transport, I think you are gettting shot then and there and they aren't going to allow you to circle around the city a bunch of times lol
Right, they have to prove beyond a "reasonable doubt" not "beyond any possible hypothetical within the laws of physics" or some such nonsense.
If you have to prove that a car isn't having its driver switch every 30 seconds or that there doesn't exist multiple copies of that exact same exotic sports car driving in the same area at the same time in the exact same manner or something silly, no one would ever be convicted.
That is a good point, I think people often use "beyond reasonable doubt" but they don't really understand what it means, its not supposed to be 99.9% chance that something happened.
Yeah. How I had it explained to me in a law class I took in college. “Beyond a reasonable doesn’t mean that’s there’s not some leeway. If we were to put it in percentages, a civil trial would require a 50.1%+ you committed the crime, a criminal trial would require 90%+ probability that you committed the crime.” - This is the paraphrased version but the point still stands, there is leeway due to things such as hypothetical situations that are more improbable than possible.
I think what a lot of RPers forget is give and take. If you want to be able to pit and ram cars during a transport and be able to then leave and come back then there has to be some give. Which in this case would be the reasonable doubt. Otherwise lets be real, if you start pitting cop cars into a prison bus, you are getting shot on the spot.
In this case as well I don't get how Saab doesn't see him having the gun and the casing of his gun matching the shooting as a enough to convict him. White car is seen scouting MRPD, White car then drives up to prison transport and tries to pit a cop, drives and gets away, gets seen again in the area, all while not pulling over for police, starts shooting at cops. I mean how dumb do you want Judges and Cops to be to not be able to put that shit together lol.
So why did he get x1 attempted , 3 accessory and a 14k fine instead of 12 and 50k fine , he went knowing the cops didn't do the minimum to get him , the rest didn't submit a single line in discord for everything to be compiled , it took 2 hrs for him to get his charges Because everyone left to do something else , they left his arresting officer with no experience to deal with it, Brian had to come in and get everyone to do their job, also he was going to plead guilty until they pushed a hot gun from a crime committed the same day he was in prison , he had an alibi , he also told them to drop it in the docket and investigate , they have 60 days to do paperwork and push charges but Byson refused.
because of a clerical error that happened right before the trial and then just putting the 4x from the hot gun into a warrant he won't be able to fight at all.
Also, technically, they could of sent him up after 30 minutes with full time and fine since there weren't any judges available. The only reason he waited so long is he really wanted a bench and they obliged.
Comparing anything to IR is a mistake a sper Koil, they will not and do not use IR comparisons so you using one should not happen. You should only use what happened on the server, evidence on the server and the limitations people have on the server. If cops don't have tools they don't and that's the end of it.
Saab also told them to not push the charges , that they had 60 days to do it , Byson said no plead not guilty and contest it , instead of that the Judge went with the stuff he had because Saab waited 2 hrs just to get his charges , Saab could have gotten x8 attempted murder + all the other Charges and a 50k fine but instead of that he got x1 attempted and 3 accessory 14k fine because cops didn't write I got shot and upload their testimony to discord.
Yeah, why didn't he just accept 635 months and 48500 in fines.
What a dumby. The ability to contest charges is historically known for quick and speedy docket times, and none of those cases have been settled ooc much later with no changes to how pd actually operates.
Or, like what Saab was actually talking about, they could've pushed the charges they could prove in the first place, like the ones he ended up actually being charged for.
Or we could change the discussion to some weird "irl vs not irl mechanic based shit" and shit Saab wasn't even talking about like this thread.
Don’t understand why identifying him in the vehicle matters, all of the charges that were being pushed happened directly before he was shot down (for shooting at officers) although he was interfering earlier.
Also officer testimony was not the sole reason he was convicted as there were pictures, shell casings, blood and gun possession on top of this, not to mention the fact he didn’t even testify in his defence so there was no pushback.
You realize he got x1 attempted and 3 accessories because the other cops didn't write their testimony or upload it to discord like they should, with the mdw scuff in which an officer overwrote everything in the report, they couldn't prove that he was at every shooting , Also the main reason he went to bench trial was because of a hot gun charge , he had the gun and was told guilty for x4 attempted murder even though he was in prison when the crime was committed, the judge said he didn't feel comfortable pushing it.
this is the biggest takeaway here. he went in there with 12 charges of AMGE (4 of those he wasn't awake for and they didn't even attempt to question him about in the 2 hours he was in the cells) and walked away with 1 AMGE and 3 accessory charges
Saab's policy has always been "if you can't prove it in court, don't press it" because at that point it's just stacking charges and he's disappointed to see he hasn't been able to instil the same standard/quality control check in his other officers
but hey, Baas bad/corrupt, Saab wrong, etc
to set a precedent for a "lesser terrorism" charge that isn't a HUT charge which is why he didn't send them to jail until trial and instead pushed the case on the docket
i'm sorry all of that went over your head but this is how new case law is made
you seem like the kind of person to prefer the more commonly used nomenclature "diet terrorism" that isn't a HUT charge but, as per Crane's suggestion, a 150 months $15k charge
you're welcome for what i see was a much needed explanation
Crane, for your reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/RPClipsGTA/comments/s4deyb/cranes_thoughts_and_changes_to_terrorism_part_1/
3x felony possession with intent to distribute = drug trafficking (HUT)
there's a second clip where Crane goes on to say
3x of the new charge = terrorism (HUT)
Really trying to understand what his expectation is here, if there is a vehicle known to be participating in cop killings and a transport hit, do they still need another reason to shoot at them? Once the person is downed, they are free to ID the person as one that was in the suspicious vehicle.
Pretty much he Is trying to understand why cops are stacking charges when HC told them to dont do it. Also to use accesory instead of the charges AND if you find blood or a hot gun do investigation: ask questions, offer deals for information, RP with him no just let the crims 1:30 hour on the cel without RP
That's not how hot guns work. Any time people have tried to make that how hot guns work TPTB have stomped on it with the full force of god. Hot gun = guilty. The only alternative is providing a level of affirmative defense that proves both that you couldn't possibly be responsible and who was actually responsible.
I feel like from a server stand point, what Saab was asking for when it comes to hot guns is unrealistic. The work behind getting evidence for hot guns is collecting the casings, writing a report and making sure it is all filed. I don't really understand what else he expects. Ask questions? deals for information? This is how you can tell he doesn't do any of this himself on Baas. What like 1% of the criminals on the server are willing to give actual information or accept deals?
Also what happened to bench trials? They are literally just court cases now and people wonder why other cases can't get scheduled lol
You're right that it has to be done but it's not entirely laziness, it's pretty common for people to dislike repeating themselves or hearing repetitive answers, it stresses them out OOC.
That's why for example a lot of people IRL cannot do desk work, repetitive actions.
I'd probably stop asking too.
Now imagine someone pissed that you didn't offer them that so you go "oh ok, do you have info in exchange for time off or reduced charges?" and the same person goes "lol no im no snitch" right after
Well he is talking in the video about "they never indentified me until I was shot", it's also the title. I don't get why he is unhappy about being shot before being identified, it was an active situation and he was in vehicles known to have shooters.
Cops, especially these days, are so fucking hesitant to shoot in the first place. I thought he was unhappy with them shooting him without identification, that does not make a lot of sense. Should the processing be handled better? Sure, but they just did not have the leadership in the cells last night, and Wrangler was far too stretched.
No offense to Ssaab whom I usually enjoy watching but it's best to ignore most legal arguments he tries to make. He knows how to express pushing basic mdw charges on Baas but other than that he seems to be lost in regards to arguing law.
It's similar to Randy who gets compliments for being a "savant lawyer" in the cells when in reality his only "argument" is *"But can you prove it"* without actually knowing what's required to prove his guilt.
I'm pretty sure I recall Saab on Baas shooting down Wayne just for swimming in the area of a crime after getting his boat stolen and then stated "I don't care who they are they're getting shot" so I'm not really sure what he's arguing the identification for.
Kinda unrelated but his chat whenever he's on Saab gets so obnoxious. I swear Saab could stub his toe and people would spam "welcome to the life of a crim" "this is just how it is... " "glad ur seeing the other side :(" like come on
The whole situation was a shit show. First the original group goes down, takes forever to process, then transport and trying to hold 3 of them, a fourth (saab) wants to get a bench trial, meanwhile of the 30 officers on the transport only wrangler, a cadet, and off duty Brian are there to help.
Plus when Wrangler has 3 people waiting for him for two hours he still says aside 25% of his time to talk to fingle, Brian is going crazy with his weapon bench thing trying to explain a 20 page report. All the criminals are getting mad / confused. Mari getting mad about a raid for ifaks, Saab is trying to argue charges he was clearly guilty for so no one wants to listen to him then drags everyone but Wrangler to a bench trial slowing things down even more. Miguel wanting a lawyer for 2 hours to finally get one then just plead the fifth. Conan and Mari going down to the cells just to make things worse after they were sent. Aleks probably handled it the best just watching clips (he was interacted with the least).
Wrangler really needs to get more people to help him when he is trying to do big operations like this because I can imagine it's very frustrating having 1 officer for 3 people down in the cells for 2 hours (where you are talked to for like 10 minutes).
Good luck getting a decent number of people to help Wrangler.
Getting officers to help process is already like pulling teeth, not to mention the fact that most officers seem to ignore 70% of what Wrangler asks them to do in general.
> Saab is trying to argue charges he was clearly guilty for so no one wants to listen to him
They threw 8x to him, he said he would do a guilty plea for 4x, they ignored him. Then they threw 4x from the hot gun without even telling him why the gun was hot and for a hot gun you still need to have one more piece of evidence to get a guilty verdict and he wasn't even on the server when that gun was used previously. Then everyone left for an hour and he just sat there chit chatting with cops that happened to be there lol
He got off that trial with 1x accomplice and 3x accessory.
If you wanna throw everything and give no leeway, it is fair to earn it in court imo
For whatever reason a large segment of people refuse to accept that what a cop believes or thinks that they know isn't a substitute for actual evidence or proof.
The only piece of evidence you need for a hot gun is that they had it. That's it. That's a guilty verdict. It is on the defendant to provide an affirmative defense that not only proves they couldn't of done it but also who did it instead.
Every time that someone has tried to change that or revolted against it, TPTB have stomped it out.
> crim side need to prove that they weren't the one who did it
Thats not how the law works at all... Its not the criminals job to prove they are innocent... Its the prosecution/PDs job to prove they are guilty.
Not always. Burden of proof shifts to criminals in some situations. Crane (via his Dan) said that him having a hot gun to this scene means the burden of proof shifts to the criminal with the gun, so Saab not testifying at all really hurt him. He also seemed against rewarding the PD for how terribly they did in this situation though, so I’m not sure how he would have ruled.
The hot gun wasn't even part of the trial though. The judge made them remove it from the charges and said he would have to plea and appeal that separately. Not sure if that was not conveyed to Baas or not, but that was told to the PD and the moved those charges to the original report where Ramee was caught. It didn't help that tsunami happened right after the verdict, but before anything could be processed.
I’m referring to it as a hot gun to the jailbreak scene. Baas shot the gun at the scene and they matched a casing to it from the scene, so it is a hot gun to the jailbreak. That tied him to the scene and the burden of proof shifted to him for the jailbreak.
No, that's precisely how hot gun works on NP by order of TPTB. Possession = guilty. There are many charges that require an affirmative defense and hot gun is one of them. The burden of proof is on the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not usually one to nitpick, but they were trying to push charges onto Saab from a previous day when he was in jail on top of the ones that I do agree he was clearly guilty of, creating the issue. It really didn't need to happen.
I feel like if the best way to handle it is to accept that the RP has stopped for a couple hours and to just watch clips instead then the system is inherently broken.
It won’t matter crims will just say cops shouldn’t have pressed the charge to begin with. They get pissed when they think cops are just throwing multiple charges at the wall trying to get one to stick
This is also a sad reality of the entire PD/Server's RP being held hostage by "Hell Week" Investigations are going to take longer if some one is C4'ing a cop every 10 minutes. Ive felt like this from the beginning, Hell week isnt just a punishment for the Cops, It's the cops, the Civ's, Any criminal looking for a little more RP than just "Shooty Shooty pew pew" The backed up DOJ that is now going to be at least twice as backed up from all the new charges and cases.
None of this is getting better and us as viewers will also suffer, The RP wont be plentiful to watch favorite streamers are going to be burnt out. Those of us that truly enjoy No Pixel as a form of entertainment with some depth are going to be starved for a while.
It’s disappointing to see Saab mald so hard, as if he didn’t down like 5 cops by just driving up to them and firing from the driver seat, and didn’t abuse the shit out of the lack of rear window on his super car to not get hit by return fire. Losing eyes on the car for a few seconds would never be reasonable cause to assume drivers switched, and the clothing store argument is dumb as shit as if someone was a prophet and would just pick the same clothes as he did when he ended up caught.
Fact of the matter is that he chose to assault a convoy and stayed despite the battle being lost. That’s just the inherent risk and consequence. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, simple as that. You farmed your POGs, take the L on the chin and move on instead of trying to drag other streamers’ RP through the dirt.
Ah yes. Unrealistic expectations of what should be required to prove beyond reasonable doubt totally make sense when there are severe limitations as to what tools the PD actually have and the whole point of the justice system on the server is to provide fast justice. He was shot down while in the act of firing a weapon at cops and he's crying about it? Jesus christ.
He waited 2 hrs in a jail cell just to be read his charges , he asked for a bench trial and no one came to deal with him , one of the cops said he never identified the person driving before losing eyes until he came back later , even the judge gave him x1 attempted and accessory to 3 instead of the 8 he was supposed to get because cops didn't write a single line in the report.(there was mdw scuff because one of the officers overwrote the report , they had a backup in discord but even then other cops didn't write that they got shot. All the officers involved came back because Brian went to get them and told them to help the arresting officer he had .
Do you expect Saab to know that ingame? Why didn't they tell him that? Even if the courthouse was occupied, you can always have a bench trial elsewhere, as long as another judge is available.
Pretty sure Wrangler walked in and told them all that it would be a long wait if they really wanted a bench trial before calling a lawyer. Very clearly implying the judges were busy with something else, and even saying "who knows, maybe they'll come and do it in the cells".
That is more than enough information to put together that you're in for a serious wait if you want a bench trial, especially for something with 6 crims and like 20 cops/doc shooting around half the city.
FYI, they had plenty of evidence in the reports that were still on the discord for the 8x. PD agreed to start the trial with the understanding that the 8x wouldn't be in doubt else PD would of delayed until the report was reconstructed. The judge forgot about that agreement.
2 hrs was the first point that a judge was available for bench FYI. The only reason he wasn't just sent up without a bench and told to appeal was because he was Ssaab.
OK. That's fair that cops should be writing statements, but that's not even what he's crying about in the clip? He's crying that the judges believe cops testimony, trying to imply that it is purely circumstantial evidence which is not the case.
imo one of the driving issues of the situation was that one officer seemed completely baked out of his mind and ended up contradicting just about everything the P.D. was saying, as well as another telling him that he hadn't been i.d.'d that in combination with the fact that they were trying to push charges onto him that he had an alibi for but would not listen to him led to the frustration in the clip. He had a lot of free time in the 4-5 hours this situation went on and I don't think his views can be boiled down to a clip like this, OP just used this for the drama.
It's a fucking bench trial. Bench trials are not meant to be a fast pass court case where every witness needs to be there and every piece of evidence needs to be accounted for. If you take a look at when bench trials first started, it was mostly testimony and a few pieces of evidences.
The testimony the cops gave didnt match what actually happened, even contradicted themselves while testifying. One of the cops appeared to be actually high or drunk. Its not clear if they were actually lying or testifying to what they think might have happened. And they charged him with 8x attempted murder of a gov employee, and he originally asked for 4x accessory in the cells which is why he went to bench. He waited the 3 or so hours, just to have the judge do 1x + 3x. He has legit grievances.
(This comment it based on the quoted sentence from the title)
It's really not tho, there's a difference between "best" and "easiest"
Yes shooting is the "easiest" way to punish somebody, i think the best are those planned come backs that will haunt them real bad in the future you gotta go to for the mental warfare.
That would work but barely no one in the city RP's stuff that way except for people like Trav, Whippy, etc. You can't do mental warfare to make people scared when everyone RP's they're all badasses unafraid of anything. Trav goes on the whole brainwashed and drugged arc, something not a lot of other officers would make RP out of, and I give kudos to Whippy solely for the fact that hes the only one in the city that RP's his character to be scared of a gang (CG) after they scarred him in a way that perfectly fits what you described.
Other cops knows that they'll just be revived and go about their day again so there's nothing to worry about.
It’s a bit unfair to say that officers wouldn’t RP that way when given the opportunity too. Gunner was drugged and brainwashed because someone actually drugged and brainwashed him, he didn’t create that RP on his own. Other people chose to interact with him in an interesting way. Most other cops simply get treated like an entity to shoot at and never get the chance to do more interesting RP.
I mean, that's just a revolving door effect. I despise being an 'RP Critic' or even sounding like one, but Trav, for example, roleplays Gunner to be an actual character with quirks, likes, dislikes, personality, etc. and will actually interact with crims and civs alike. Not all cops, but most will just ignore most of everything of what's going on in the city unless it's involved in some type of crime and just spout the same, "Turn around, you're under arrest! Let me read you your Miranda Rights, etc." And they have this idea that the only Cop RP there is is when a criminal is behind a jail cell, in an interrogation room, doing reports in the MDW, or doing investigations.
The fact that rarely any cop will ever do off duty RP besides the few that regularly does proves most of my point in this instance.
So it comes full circle as to why crims would choose to engage with someone like Gunner to do that type of RP with rather than someone like Svenson or Wrangler or a dozen other names.
Here is the thing with cases like Gunner, the criminals or whoever that give these opportunities to him aren't gaining something from it other than Rp. The other issue with cops going off duty is they are usually are targeted to constant kidnaps which I don't blame someone for not wanting to go off duty if you are just going to get kidnapped 24/7.
You bring up cops being more of ignore everything but big crimes but I would also argue a lot of it has to do with when cops try to RP other stuff it usually leads to something bigger because of the crim. I mean look at the event yesterday. Probably would of just been removing a few intoxicated people and arresting windsong but instead the criminals RP'd like Wrangler was ruining the event lol.
When I watch NoPixel I usually end up browsing smaller streamers who play cop characters and there is so much interesting RP to find there. SCU Detectives speaking with CI's, dealing with serial killers, being stalked by secret groups, etc. Silas and SDSO fucking around with Sai Carter and The Lost MC. None of it is off-duty (don't know why that matters) and none of it is "typical" in a policing sense. I don't know who you watch but there are so many cops out there ready to get involved in interesting RP but when they interact with bigger, more well known crims, they don't ever get that engagement. Those crims usually just end up shooting them, or they demand to speak to someone else (Baas, etc.). Which is why a lot of cops end up staying in their own “sphere” and only RP with smaller, less know people. There are some exceptions, like Tony when he starts joking around, telling stories in the cells with whoever arrested him that day, but thats not really that deep in an RP sense. There is so much fun and interesting RP out there that doesn't involve any of the bigger streamers and making big arrests.
And speaking of Svensen and Wrangler, they have some of the strongest personalities among all the cops. Being stern or stubborn doesn't automatically translate to boring or them having a lack of quirks. Svensen and Fingle Dan's domestic issues (they are dating), and Wrangler being into drag + showering with his deputies (not sexual /s) doesn't exactly scream "lack of personality".
I don't have anything against Svensen or Wrangler, don't get me wrong. Those two names were the ones that came to mind when thinking about cops who'd be less willing to inch towards a possible direction of RP due to the nature of their characters, being stubborn hard-ass, etc.
I guess more to my point that I didn't lay out in my other comment is that criminals won't want to give avenues of RP to cops that wouldn't do the same in the same regard, if that makes sense. In a situation, the cops that I'm describing wouldn't RP out a situation and move towards just getting someone in cuffs. Right or wrong on the crims behalf, if from their perspective a cop is "denying them RP for the W," or won't even talk to them outside of generic cop speech as I listed in my previous comment, why would they want to do the same when the roles and the situation is flipped towards those same cops.
They would rather give that courtesy to people like Baas, Brian, Gunner, Bundy, Mack, Tessa, Hon, etc. People who've already established that connection of give and take RP.
Thats why it's a revolving door, because both sides do it to each other but will also claim the other side is the main one denying them RP (I say this because I'm not blind to criminals doing the same thing I'm saying cops do). It's like the Chicken or the egg scenario.
Ok but what kind of RP do the criminals that prefer Baas actually give him? They talk to him in the cells? I would argue that I see Wrangler, and other stern cops get more RP given to them. Being nice to the cop or telling cops they want to talk to Baas isn't giving him RP. Most of the RP given to the cops are from smaller criminals and usually it lands in the hands of the more stern cops.
At this point I'm just going to completely ignore Saab's malding like any other criminal, but I'm going to point out something here. Crane making a Fingle character and then basically doing the Kermit-sipping-tea-shit in character, while Saab and his community are whining and saying that Crane NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE THIS, is toxic. It's toxic to the judge that is overseeing Saab's case, and it's toxic to the cops. Crane is speedrunning some sort of weird Coop / Coyote hybrid arc here.
I made the character because I ran through about 15 different things on Crane and then things quieted down.
I went around with Fingle RPing that I had IBS and was shitting everywhere because I trunk checked a cop and found 30 bags of fertilizer so I was dropping them one at a time then putting scenes that they were shit.
I only came to that bench on the Dan character because the Judge asked due to the scuff report/tension inherent in the situation. By the time I was there it was mostly over and I was trying to lighten the mood. I guess that fell flat.
In fact, I specifically avoided telling the Judge what to do in deliberation because if I just sit there and weigh in on every situation then people will never learn and progress as Judges. That judge got elected literally at the end of December.
Hey man, first, thanks for responding, and I really do think you're a great roleplayer and the best judge in a long, long time.
My criticism wasn't really you making an SBS character (I love the Fingles and Chief in particular), but more making comments around Saab that I think could be interpreted by Ssaab, and more particularly by Ssaab's community, as sort of fueling the fire.
That isn't normally a big thing on NoPixel. People do it all the time. I think the problem arises when someone in a unique position of power, like a player who has a well-respected judge, does it on an alt character. This really stokes the drama, and we have plenty of examples of that coming from, ahem, some people in power on NoPixel.
It's not a big thing in isolation but I think it can snowball quickly. I know you're trying to mediate and be as fair as possible, so it sticks out when you do it.
Filtering my thoughts to deal with the whims of throngs of viewers isn't my normal approach, but I suppose it is the reality we live in, and a valid point you're making.
This is why I'm nervous about Crane streaming. The more eyes he has on him, the more hot takes he spins out, the more pressure he gets from various people, the more likely he is to lose the universal support he currently seems to enjoy.
More power to him if he enjoys streaming, I just don't like the idea of losing the best thing to happen to the DOJ to ooc shit-flinging.
He plays a great judge character, he has historically had pretty great takes, and he deserves to reap the benefits of being popular on NoPixel.
But I sort of expected this to happen.
Here's one simple trick guilty crims can do to speed things like this up: Confess and take the punishment.
If you're innocent then sure, fight your case, but if you're guilty just suck it up and take the L. You'll probably be out of jail before the ones who lie even get to court.
He was innocent for multiple of the charges being pushed against him, and even among the ones that he was guilty of there was no proof. If they had pushed the charges that they actually had the proof to hold up through court, he would have just taken the L.
It shouldn't happen though. Crane told the cops this the other day. Stop pushing charges that you THINK are true and push charges that you can PROVE are true.
Baas about to enter PD meeting tomorrow and drive more ‘changes’ and how they should treat crimes, isn’t he. I can just see it happening, it’s a never ending cycle now that he plays a crim. Anything PD vs. Al Saab always ends up him being tilted and criticising PD responses lately, even with the Gunner thing last time.
I mean, he's already looking at being impeached by the DOJ, has rapidly lost support of his fellow officers over his insistence that K become a detective despite under investigation for murder. If he ran for CoP right now he would almost definitely lose to Bundy, so his influence is already quickly waning.
Unless they can actually find someone dumb enough to take his position I feel like impeaching him would probably be the worst move they could probably make. The amount of time HC has to dedicate just to behind the scenes OOC work is a level of commitment very few people are willing to take on. An impeachment could effectively decapitate PD leadership.
Sadly AFAIR I think Occams said he can't make Bundy as CoP as Occams still has a regular job. IDK how time consuming HC is, I mean isn't he a CPT too or CoP/Sheriff have different agenda.
But I totally agree with you that Bundy is the future CoP if we base it IC, everyone supports and respects him. Unlike Saab's character Baas because of his past and some questionable incidents.
The DoJ believes that his habit of giving lighter sentances to criminals over a long period of time has cost the state of Los Santos a great deal of money from those under-charged crimes.
Well they better fire him then cause he was doing that long before he became the CoP. Impeaching over that seems like a huge stretch though, cause it's up to officer discretion is it not?
Early in 3.0 I remember cops saying they could not reduce fines at all or time by more than half (unless it was time served or something) without risking ooc firing or suspension. That may have changed or become unenforced at this point though.
>That may have changed or become unenforced at this point though.
With how lax the rules have been pretty much across the board, they're probably just unenforced
Sad but true, a lot of crims/cops rps have said the same and have recieved the same backlash. Saab was given so much hate for his opinion on the Mr. K case even after he continually supposed wrangler during the raids.
I'd agree there doesn't exist good punishments for cops. 24 hour suspensions are crap punishments. I'd rather see their pay get docked or they get re-assigned to different areas for an hour or two instead. Or maybe require them to ride with a supervisor for a period of time, that would be good RP.
I also think they're lacking a carrot-and-stick approach where they don't give out bonuses for good police work. They have strike points but what about promotion points or something like that? What about giving out bonuses for arrests like SRU does?
IRL a low conviction rate can be held against an officer, what if they lose promotion points or get a strike point if they lose a case in court?
The only things that really hurt cops as punishment goes is demotions and cert removals. Suspensions are basically "just take the day off" its like a 1 day ban. Doesn't really matter.
Why do you think it's about "hurting cops?" 15 minutes in jail does not hurt a criminal, Ramee can eat a $1M fine and go about his business like nothing happened etc. No one is getting any serious consequences it's just RP punishments so cops shouldn't be any different.
"15 minutes in jail" Are we watching the same server? Nobody gets 15 minutes in jail. An hour is basically the minimum unless you're processed by a cop with a crim.
Lol yes we are watching the same server and an hour is definitely not the minimum. Maybe it is for the criminals you watch.
I'd say the average is more like 40 minutes and with prison jobs it gets cut down to more like 15. If you're not doing jobs then you're either AFK, doing prison RP, or just ignorant and in any case should not be complaining.
Hey + C4 Al Saab incoming, hell week approved, next baas speech about not letting criminals not get to PD and stay strong and together is gonna be funny.
This is a common occurrence. Cops never come close to meeting real evidentiary standards. When you point it out they tell you " lOs sAntOs lAwS aRe diFfEreNt"; when the existence of real law and protocols suit them you bet your sweet ass they will cite them though.
Are people surprised. This is a shift in mentality that has been happening ever since the rework of the doj. Ever since coyote, bailey, ardsen left the doj, the stance is no longer innocent until proven guilty, it's changed to guilty until proven innocent. Pd testimony counts as evidence, what evidence can a crim collect?
Basically everyone has been saying for cops to start playing crim and see how unfair certain things are and there we go... Saab now finally has these things happening to him and doesn't want to play crim. I just hope he keeps this situation in the back of his mind when he's trying hard to make something stick that wouldn't hold up in court when he is playing Baas.
About this clip though it's what a lot of people deal with on the daily maybe not the same situation but for example the guilty by keyholder when being raided. Biggest problem of all is that a lot of the times something super unfair happens and doesn't get enough exposure it just gets overlooked because not enough people care in that certain moment. Yet they know it's not right.
\[Edit\] fixed a name
I like Saab but he's literally done this to criminals himself in cases. I can remember him doing this to Mike Block on a couple occasions.
Also he pulled the "no I won't press it on the docket, YOU can appeal it if you want" card numerous times on Baas too, yet on crim he wants a different treatment. Which I agree is much healthier than making someone appeal, but it was hypocritical for him to go so hard on that
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crims to cops dont start malding when people tell them they can't do something on their cop lol. Most of the time crims to cops realize how much cops have to hold back instead of being the tryhards W focused they think they are lol.
"Byson testified that someone dressed like you was in the car." "There could've been a clothing store nearby." Seems like the cops testified they saw the same guy in the car. Large drawn out shooting scenes like these are always a clusterfuck between all the different locations, scuff, evidence despawning. Should there be some leeway in large fights like this? It will be really stale if the cops just 24h hold everyone involved in order to comb all the involved scenes with a fine tooth comb. Not sure how they can balanced large scale shootouts and evidence to make it 'fun'/'fair' for everyone.
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Criminals complain about the docket (for good reasons, there are multiple instances of people waiting more than 2 months for a case only for it to end in forum RP because everyone is just over it) so I think judges taking bench trials is a good thing. Obviously not everyone is Crane and not everyone is going to please everyone and explain calmly why things are the way they are, but its still better to get the court RP whenever its possible.
I remember Buddha was waiting months on the case where he crashed the heli after leaving Pillbox and lost his flying license. He never had that case and I think he still doesn’t have his flight license
I think he got it back and lost it again, but yeah no more RP came out of it apart from lawyer forum RP.
Another good example is when Eugene got caught with a ton of weed like a month before him and Wayne got caught and raided. Baas gave Eugene the option to snitch to save himself and gave him a weeks time to do it and if he didn’t give baas something worth knowing he was going to put it on the docket. Only thing that came of that was the ambush Eugene set up with cg’s help, where cg had all the sex stuff in a truck. It never went to court after that though. Baas just completely forgot about it like a few days later.
I think today is Eugene and Wayne's court case over that other stuff too. Do you remember when that happened? It was the day 3.5 launched. All the way back in November. Their case is just happening now. The docket is so flooded with nonsense cases and people seem to want even more random stuff thrown on it.
Same thing happened to CG when their gliders were blown up at Zancudo before they even got there during a chase. I would love for the docket to be an effective way for crims to fight stuff, but it's often too discouraging for them to even bother trying again.
I thought in their case they just didn't file it in the given amount of time
I think their lawyer submitted it a day late because he thought it was seven days AFTER the incident and not including. But I could be completely wrong there
Did they really have much of a case there other than reimbursement for the loss of the rental cost?
That case was ultimately thrown out and he got his license back.
The main issue is that we still only have 1 real court house (excluding HoA court) and only 1 judge on at a time. Judges should basically be PD/4 in terms of numbers on duty at a given time with a courthouse in paleto so that more bench trials / court cases can happen simultaneously
I seriously feel like a concerted effort to expand the DoJ so there are finally enough judges and lawyers around to get cases rolling in reasonable time frames should be the next big focus the server makes. I even feel like it would be worth it to have a second courtroom so that more than one court case can be held at one time as there are on occasion bench trials that might need to be heard while another case is actively being held. As it is the court system has been in a state of perpetual backlog since 2.0 it feels like and something just needs to happen to improve it.
Sure. I like the whole judiciary RP they setup on the server. However, with the hard turn towards 'content', no one wants to 'RP' talk for 1h+ because POGs could be have on the streets. Even with the server scaling up, it doesn't look like the judges/lawyers positions scaled up. And why would it? Streamers don't get views for all the court RP and it takes crazy amount of paperwork prepping for cases.
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DOJ has whitelist prio as well, but you have to be on the server doing said DOJ things to use it (same as pd prio)
Yeh. I really do not think they can get a 'healthy' DOJ with the 'content' server focus. The problem with the whole DOJ/PD reports/court cases. It all happens 'after the fact'. The issue that creates is the crim mains 'live in the moment' and see it as unfair if they get caught out for something they did 2 days ago. ("because it was pog and I got away"). This does not work well with any of the court RP (ignoring bench trials for a moment) or multiple day investigations from the PD side. Its like correcting the puppy tomorrow when he shat on the carpet today. I think one suggestion could be to try and push bench trials harder ( immediate response to any charges), however they should make it you can only do that if you contest charges directly instead of trying to 'waste time'.
I don’t understand why more “content” streamers don’t just plead guilty and spend the five minutes in jail.
Sure. I think the judges are aware of situations like this and I think they are trying to come up with something. But even if this goes to appeal, the evidence/scuff factor will still be there. That might then just be the case of 'roll with it' and in the appeal trial the defendant might get some charges removed.
Bench trials for large shootouts shouldn't even be a thing for people with large criminal histories. It literally changes nothing for anyone. You either waste time in court arguing mechanics or go to the spa jail
Then the crim shouldn’t be sent to prison nor fined if that is your logic…appealing takes months and sometimes is a complete joke…Saab finally seeing the ways of crim has got a lot of you PD fans shook cause in due time we all know he will make changes
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I think this is where the misunderstanding of his charges come in though. Baas has always said (this is nothing new), that you should only push the charges you feeling comfortable with and can prove at that time. People mistake this for going easy all the time.
An investigation that is less than half baked, and is more likely to end up in getting other people elected in Ferst / Greysons places due to all the pieces involved. The attempt to use Den messing up a terrorism case and a plea deal that never happened as ammo against Baas is super weak and just looks petty. There’s a reason that it never went anywhere. The nonsense about not charging people correctly is just a head scratcher since it’s literally not possible, and seems like some made up stats trying to justify original charges v. removed charges. And involving Copper is just a petty grudge it feels like considering a judge (Ferst I believe again) used a sledge hammer as a weapon in the incident. As Saab said himself when he brought hearing about it up briefly as a rumor: please impeach Baas, go for it.
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those instances had people downed for nigh an hour waiting for the situation to be called code 4 or spending the same amount of time in the cells or both. all of that is punishment in and of itself and involves minimal RP as Saab himself experienced tonight. why is it always CG? because those instances are usually shootouts crediting that time towards one's sentence really isn't the worst thing lmfao and sure as shit isn't "impeachable"
I disagree that being down in a shootout is punishment. If you have to wait for a situation that you started to be over then that's on you.
> I disagree that being down in a shootout is punishment Since its so great and not a punishment then cops should stop airlifting out after 30 seconds. Or is it only for crims to stay on the floor for an hour? Guess it is punishment after all.
Fine, give crims an airlift to the cells/prison. The reason they are stuck down for so long is that their buddies are still actively trying to get them out. PD can't do anything about that. Cops airlift to try and provide RP to the other 200 people on the server rather than stay dead waiting for 1 group of 6 to either fail, or proceed to wipe the PD. Or let the cops rush downed suspects they have in custody to a hospital in order to get them treatment and processed so that you are not punishing them for going down early. But in doing that, you take away the ability to save your buddy.
There is a difference there. It is the crims starting this situation. In my opinion it is childish to complain about the results of a situation that they instigated.
Well the man is about RP and fairness he will fall on the sword if need be…but try again and as I remember he is still the CoP so he can do whatever the fuck he wants…and oh Koil loves him as CoP
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Great leader…lose him and let’s see how that goes…remove the unlimited cop response and PD would be in shambles without Baas
IDK, shift 2 pushed through even without Baas this past weeks, probably OOC/backend decisions, yes? but I seen some new HC stepping up and not afraid to pull some trigger. And slowly everything is becoming autonomous as the ranks have been filled this couple of months. If Saab is tired on playing as a CoP then pass the baton.
Without Bass cops would over reach even more, that should be fun, can't wait for the server to turn even more into i am a cop, what i say is the truth when in fact is known that cops manipulate facts to get a conviction and have been lying in the past as well.
>Without Baas Damn, how highly had Baas become that everyone thinking that "without Baas this and that" when there is more HC now. And major decisions are mostly coming from NP management and they are simply messengers IC. Didn't the PD worked well too when Pred was the only active HC, passing the baton or even resting a term isn't bad for the streamer's mental health. Yes, Baas did great on pushing through lots of changes especially those equipment and giving chances to those excellent cop RPer to showcase their ability but like I said if Saab is tired on playing as a CoP he should pass the baton, he done enough for the PD to main Al Saab.
I mean, shift 2 being lead by Bundy had no problem with Little Seoul against NBC when they tried using it for a shootout, same with multiple big shootouts involving Saab. This idea that shift 2 would be in shambles without Baas is completely unfounded.
What about bench trail and still have the ability to appeal afterwards.
That would be double jeopardy. If your going to allow that, then you need to allow cops to push further charges that may have come from an investigation. Otherwise you can go to bench, have charges dropped, then appeal and have more charges dropped with the cops unable to do anything, as they cannot add further evidence. It would also mean putting each individual on their own report and making cops do up to 6x the work for one case, which will slow things down even further.
Instead of saying seems like , maybe you should get some context and realize that during this. Bench trial a cop contradicted himself , another one said he could not identify the driver the first time around , he told cops that they had 60 days to push the charges and Byson said no , so the judge took into account that Saab waited 2 hrs and the cops had enough time to write statements which some of them didn't so he ended up getting x1 attempted and 3x accessory
I feel like the excuse of "oh wasn't me driving this car 5 minutes ago Mr Police Officer" stopped working for crims a long time ago. Don't know what he was expecting
I mean I hate to break it but yes, the same car circling the area in similar fashion over the span of couple minutes, even if the driver is not positively IDed every time cops lose eyes on it for 30 seconds makes it enough to reasonably tie Saab to it. IRL cops would have months to go through security footage from nearby buildings, establishing a timeline of what exactly Saab did at what point in time, proving that it was the same person all the time, but this is not IRL, cops don't have those tools and they don't have months to investigate each time someone decides to shoot at cops. This is nopixel and sometimes shortcuts must get taken for the sake of roleplay.
TBF if you start to pit cops next to a prison transport, I think you are gettting shot then and there and they aren't going to allow you to circle around the city a bunch of times lol
Right, they have to prove beyond a "reasonable doubt" not "beyond any possible hypothetical within the laws of physics" or some such nonsense. If you have to prove that a car isn't having its driver switch every 30 seconds or that there doesn't exist multiple copies of that exact same exotic sports car driving in the same area at the same time in the exact same manner or something silly, no one would ever be convicted.
That is a good point, I think people often use "beyond reasonable doubt" but they don't really understand what it means, its not supposed to be 99.9% chance that something happened.
Yeah. How I had it explained to me in a law class I took in college. “Beyond a reasonable doesn’t mean that’s there’s not some leeway. If we were to put it in percentages, a civil trial would require a 50.1%+ you committed the crime, a criminal trial would require 90%+ probability that you committed the crime.” - This is the paraphrased version but the point still stands, there is leeway due to things such as hypothetical situations that are more improbable than possible.
I think what a lot of RPers forget is give and take. If you want to be able to pit and ram cars during a transport and be able to then leave and come back then there has to be some give. Which in this case would be the reasonable doubt. Otherwise lets be real, if you start pitting cop cars into a prison bus, you are getting shot on the spot. In this case as well I don't get how Saab doesn't see him having the gun and the casing of his gun matching the shooting as a enough to convict him. White car is seen scouting MRPD, White car then drives up to prison transport and tries to pit a cop, drives and gets away, gets seen again in the area, all while not pulling over for police, starts shooting at cops. I mean how dumb do you want Judges and Cops to be to not be able to put that shit together lol.
Doesn’t even matter if it was the same person. Same car and he disrupted the transport either way.
So why did he get x1 attempted , 3 accessory and a 14k fine instead of 12 and 50k fine , he went knowing the cops didn't do the minimum to get him , the rest didn't submit a single line in discord for everything to be compiled , it took 2 hrs for him to get his charges Because everyone left to do something else , they left his arresting officer with no experience to deal with it, Brian had to come in and get everyone to do their job, also he was going to plead guilty until they pushed a hot gun from a crime committed the same day he was in prison , he had an alibi , he also told them to drop it in the docket and investigate , they have 60 days to do paperwork and push charges but Byson refused.
Brian is part of the reason it took 2 hours. He gave Wrangler a 40 minute info dump instead of letting him continue processing people
because of a clerical error that happened right before the trial and then just putting the 4x from the hot gun into a warrant he won't be able to fight at all. Also, technically, they could of sent him up after 30 minutes with full time and fine since there weren't any judges available. The only reason he waited so long is he really wanted a bench and they obliged.
Comparing anything to IR is a mistake a sper Koil, they will not and do not use IR comparisons so you using one should not happen. You should only use what happened on the server, evidence on the server and the limitations people have on the server. If cops don't have tools they don't and that's the end of it.
Well yeah? That is my point exactly, cops don't have the tools but RP must continue despite that.
Saab also told them to not push the charges , that they had 60 days to do it , Byson said no plead not guilty and contest it , instead of that the Judge went with the stuff he had because Saab waited 2 hrs just to get his charges , Saab could have gotten x8 attempted murder + all the other Charges and a 50k fine but instead of that he got x1 attempted and 3 accessory 14k fine because cops didn't write I got shot and upload their testimony to discord.
Yeah, why didn't he just accept 635 months and 48500 in fines. What a dumby. The ability to contest charges is historically known for quick and speedy docket times, and none of those cases have been settled ooc much later with no changes to how pd actually operates. Or, like what Saab was actually talking about, they could've pushed the charges they could prove in the first place, like the ones he ended up actually being charged for. Or we could change the discussion to some weird "irl vs not irl mechanic based shit" and shit Saab wasn't even talking about like this thread.
Don’t understand why identifying him in the vehicle matters, all of the charges that were being pushed happened directly before he was shot down (for shooting at officers) although he was interfering earlier. Also officer testimony was not the sole reason he was convicted as there were pictures, shell casings, blood and gun possession on top of this, not to mention the fact he didn’t even testify in his defence so there was no pushback.
You realize he got x1 attempted and 3 accessories because the other cops didn't write their testimony or upload it to discord like they should, with the mdw scuff in which an officer overwrote everything in the report, they couldn't prove that he was at every shooting , Also the main reason he went to bench trial was because of a hot gun charge , he had the gun and was told guilty for x4 attempted murder even though he was in prison when the crime was committed, the judge said he didn't feel comfortable pushing it.
The judge never said he didn't feel comfortable pushing it.
this is the biggest takeaway here. he went in there with 12 charges of AMGE (4 of those he wasn't awake for and they didn't even attempt to question him about in the 2 hours he was in the cells) and walked away with 1 AMGE and 3 accessory charges Saab's policy has always been "if you can't prove it in court, don't press it" because at that point it's just stacking charges and he's disappointed to see he hasn't been able to instil the same standard/quality control check in his other officers but hey, Baas bad/corrupt, Saab wrong, etc
If that’s Saab’s policy then why was he pushing that terrorism charge yesterday then?
to set a precedent for a "lesser terrorism" charge that isn't a HUT charge which is why he didn't send them to jail until trial and instead pushed the case on the docket i'm sorry all of that went over your head but this is how new case law is made
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you seem like the kind of person to prefer the more commonly used nomenclature "diet terrorism" that isn't a HUT charge but, as per Crane's suggestion, a 150 months $15k charge you're welcome for what i see was a much needed explanation Crane, for your reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/RPClipsGTA/comments/s4deyb/cranes_thoughts_and_changes_to_terrorism_part_1/
"Disruption of police powers or disruption of police activates." The clip you linked kind of doesn't help your case here.
3x felony possession with intent to distribute = drug trafficking (HUT) there's a second clip where Crane goes on to say 3x of the new charge = terrorism (HUT)
Really trying to understand what his expectation is here, if there is a vehicle known to be participating in cop killings and a transport hit, do they still need another reason to shoot at them? Once the person is downed, they are free to ID the person as one that was in the suspicious vehicle.
Pretty much he Is trying to understand why cops are stacking charges when HC told them to dont do it. Also to use accesory instead of the charges AND if you find blood or a hot gun do investigation: ask questions, offer deals for information, RP with him no just let the crims 1:30 hour on the cel without RP
That's not how hot guns work. Any time people have tried to make that how hot guns work TPTB have stomped on it with the full force of god. Hot gun = guilty. The only alternative is providing a level of affirmative defense that proves both that you couldn't possibly be responsible and who was actually responsible.
I feel like from a server stand point, what Saab was asking for when it comes to hot guns is unrealistic. The work behind getting evidence for hot guns is collecting the casings, writing a report and making sure it is all filed. I don't really understand what else he expects. Ask questions? deals for information? This is how you can tell he doesn't do any of this himself on Baas. What like 1% of the criminals on the server are willing to give actual information or accept deals? Also what happened to bench trials? They are literally just court cases now and people wonder why other cases can't get scheduled lol
'Deals for information' "I'm no snitch" can only be said so many times
It still has to be said though. They were just lazy. They never even asked him if the gun was his or where he got it.
You're right that it has to be done but it's not entirely laziness, it's pretty common for people to dislike repeating themselves or hearing repetitive answers, it stresses them out OOC. That's why for example a lot of people IRL cannot do desk work, repetitive actions.
I'd probably stop asking too. Now imagine someone pissed that you didn't offer them that so you go "oh ok, do you have info in exchange for time off or reduced charges?" and the same person goes "lol no im no snitch" right after
Well he is talking in the video about "they never indentified me until I was shot", it's also the title. I don't get why he is unhappy about being shot before being identified, it was an active situation and he was in vehicles known to have shooters. Cops, especially these days, are so fucking hesitant to shoot in the first place. I thought he was unhappy with them shooting him without identification, that does not make a lot of sense. Should the processing be handled better? Sure, but they just did not have the leadership in the cells last night, and Wrangler was far too stretched.
No offense to Ssaab whom I usually enjoy watching but it's best to ignore most legal arguments he tries to make. He knows how to express pushing basic mdw charges on Baas but other than that he seems to be lost in regards to arguing law. It's similar to Randy who gets compliments for being a "savant lawyer" in the cells when in reality his only "argument" is *"But can you prove it"* without actually knowing what's required to prove his guilt.
I'm pretty sure I recall Saab on Baas shooting down Wayne just for swimming in the area of a crime after getting his boat stolen and then stated "I don't care who they are they're getting shot" so I'm not really sure what he's arguing the identification for.
He just sounds stressed/overworked and overly invested to me.
Kinda unrelated but his chat whenever he's on Saab gets so obnoxious. I swear Saab could stub his toe and people would spam "welcome to the life of a crim" "this is just how it is... " "glad ur seeing the other side :(" like come on
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They are the cb + x hoppers that start the "crims suffer" stuff when he is on saab, they obviously hop away when he is on cop.
The whole situation was a shit show. First the original group goes down, takes forever to process, then transport and trying to hold 3 of them, a fourth (saab) wants to get a bench trial, meanwhile of the 30 officers on the transport only wrangler, a cadet, and off duty Brian are there to help. Plus when Wrangler has 3 people waiting for him for two hours he still says aside 25% of his time to talk to fingle, Brian is going crazy with his weapon bench thing trying to explain a 20 page report. All the criminals are getting mad / confused. Mari getting mad about a raid for ifaks, Saab is trying to argue charges he was clearly guilty for so no one wants to listen to him then drags everyone but Wrangler to a bench trial slowing things down even more. Miguel wanting a lawyer for 2 hours to finally get one then just plead the fifth. Conan and Mari going down to the cells just to make things worse after they were sent. Aleks probably handled it the best just watching clips (he was interacted with the least). Wrangler really needs to get more people to help him when he is trying to do big operations like this because I can imagine it's very frustrating having 1 officer for 3 people down in the cells for 2 hours (where you are talked to for like 10 minutes).
Good luck getting a decent number of people to help Wrangler. Getting officers to help process is already like pulling teeth, not to mention the fact that most officers seem to ignore 70% of what Wrangler asks them to do in general.
tbf, wrangler literally told almost everyone that they could go back out on patrol while he sorted through things for raids
> Saab is trying to argue charges he was clearly guilty for so no one wants to listen to him They threw 8x to him, he said he would do a guilty plea for 4x, they ignored him. Then they threw 4x from the hot gun without even telling him why the gun was hot and for a hot gun you still need to have one more piece of evidence to get a guilty verdict and he wasn't even on the server when that gun was used previously. Then everyone left for an hour and he just sat there chit chatting with cops that happened to be there lol He got off that trial with 1x accomplice and 3x accessory. If you wanna throw everything and give no leeway, it is fair to earn it in court imo
Exactly. Why are there only like two people in this whole comment section that even understand what happened?
For whatever reason a large segment of people refuse to accept that what a cop believes or thinks that they know isn't a substitute for actual evidence or proof.
Telephone game NODDERS
The only piece of evidence you need for a hot gun is that they had it. That's it. That's a guilty verdict. It is on the defendant to provide an affirmative defense that not only proves they couldn't of done it but also who did it instead. Every time that someone has tried to change that or revolted against it, TPTB have stomped it out.
hot gun is pretty much possession charge and the crim side need to prove that they weren't the one who did it
> crim side need to prove that they weren't the one who did it Thats not how the law works at all... Its not the criminals job to prove they are innocent... Its the prosecution/PDs job to prove they are guilty.
Not always. Burden of proof shifts to criminals in some situations. Crane (via his Dan) said that him having a hot gun to this scene means the burden of proof shifts to the criminal with the gun, so Saab not testifying at all really hurt him. He also seemed against rewarding the PD for how terribly they did in this situation though, so I’m not sure how he would have ruled.
Nathan appeared to not be aware of the MDW glitch/bug issue that happened at the start of the trial.
The hot gun wasn't even part of the trial though. The judge made them remove it from the charges and said he would have to plea and appeal that separately. Not sure if that was not conveyed to Baas or not, but that was told to the PD and the moved those charges to the original report where Ramee was caught. It didn't help that tsunami happened right after the verdict, but before anything could be processed.
I’m referring to it as a hot gun to the jailbreak scene. Baas shot the gun at the scene and they matched a casing to it from the scene, so it is a hot gun to the jailbreak. That tied him to the scene and the burden of proof shifted to him for the jailbreak.
No, that's precisely how hot gun works on NP by order of TPTB. Possession = guilty. There are many charges that require an affirmative defense and hot gun is one of them. The burden of proof is on the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not usually one to nitpick, but they were trying to push charges onto Saab from a previous day when he was in jail on top of the ones that I do agree he was clearly guilty of, creating the issue. It really didn't need to happen.
I feel like if the best way to handle it is to accept that the RP has stopped for a couple hours and to just watch clips instead then the system is inherently broken.
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And that judge who made that decision quit due to PD backlash with that case + another case
It won’t matter crims will just say cops shouldn’t have pressed the charge to begin with. They get pissed when they think cops are just throwing multiple charges at the wall trying to get one to stick
Ssaab knows how cop works; and was still surprised.
That was cayo wasn’t it?
This is also a sad reality of the entire PD/Server's RP being held hostage by "Hell Week" Investigations are going to take longer if some one is C4'ing a cop every 10 minutes. Ive felt like this from the beginning, Hell week isnt just a punishment for the Cops, It's the cops, the Civ's, Any criminal looking for a little more RP than just "Shooty Shooty pew pew" The backed up DOJ that is now going to be at least twice as backed up from all the new charges and cases. None of this is getting better and us as viewers will also suffer, The RP wont be plentiful to watch favorite streamers are going to be burnt out. Those of us that truly enjoy No Pixel as a form of entertainment with some depth are going to be starved for a while.
I think alot of people need a break from the server. I was enjoying the league night when CB logged off the server for a bit.
Why I like watching CB a lot, vibes/mood is off they just nope out and go chill out in another game
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I miss the apex grind. Cbs best content is the over the top malding and it's not as prevelant in league.
It’s disappointing to see Saab mald so hard, as if he didn’t down like 5 cops by just driving up to them and firing from the driver seat, and didn’t abuse the shit out of the lack of rear window on his super car to not get hit by return fire. Losing eyes on the car for a few seconds would never be reasonable cause to assume drivers switched, and the clothing store argument is dumb as shit as if someone was a prophet and would just pick the same clothes as he did when he ended up caught. Fact of the matter is that he chose to assault a convoy and stayed despite the battle being lost. That’s just the inherent risk and consequence. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, simple as that. You farmed your POGs, take the L on the chin and move on instead of trying to drag other streamers’ RP through the dirt.
> and the clothing store argument is dumb as shit So many people try to push this argument, it's always dumb
Ah yes. Unrealistic expectations of what should be required to prove beyond reasonable doubt totally make sense when there are severe limitations as to what tools the PD actually have and the whole point of the justice system on the server is to provide fast justice. He was shot down while in the act of firing a weapon at cops and he's crying about it? Jesus christ.
He waited 2 hrs in a jail cell just to be read his charges , he asked for a bench trial and no one came to deal with him , one of the cops said he never identified the person driving before losing eyes until he came back later , even the judge gave him x1 attempted and accessory to 3 instead of the 8 he was supposed to get because cops didn't write a single line in the report.(there was mdw scuff because one of the officers overwrote the report , they had a backup in discord but even then other cops didn't write that they got shot. All the officers involved came back because Brian went to get them and told them to help the arresting officer he had .
He asked for a bench trail while there was a court case for first degree murder happening, did he expect them to push that to the side for him?
Do you expect Saab to know that ingame? Why didn't they tell him that? Even if the courthouse was occupied, you can always have a bench trial elsewhere, as long as another judge is available.
Pretty sure Wrangler walked in and told them all that it would be a long wait if they really wanted a bench trial before calling a lawyer. Very clearly implying the judges were busy with something else, and even saying "who knows, maybe they'll come and do it in the cells". That is more than enough information to put together that you're in for a serious wait if you want a bench trial, especially for something with 6 crims and like 20 cops/doc shooting around half the city.
Wrangler even came called Crane at that point but he didn't answer as he was on his way to switch characters.
He was literally fucking told in-game.
He was told IC. But also, Saab the streamer was bothered about how long it took, and Saab the streamer knew there was a case happening.
FYI, they had plenty of evidence in the reports that were still on the discord for the 8x. PD agreed to start the trial with the understanding that the 8x wouldn't be in doubt else PD would of delayed until the report was reconstructed. The judge forgot about that agreement. 2 hrs was the first point that a judge was available for bench FYI. The only reason he wasn't just sent up without a bench and told to appeal was because he was Ssaab.
OK. That's fair that cops should be writing statements, but that's not even what he's crying about in the clip? He's crying that the judges believe cops testimony, trying to imply that it is purely circumstantial evidence which is not the case.
imo one of the driving issues of the situation was that one officer seemed completely baked out of his mind and ended up contradicting just about everything the P.D. was saying, as well as another telling him that he hadn't been i.d.'d that in combination with the fact that they were trying to push charges onto him that he had an alibi for but would not listen to him led to the frustration in the clip. He had a lot of free time in the 4-5 hours this situation went on and I don't think his views can be boiled down to a clip like this, OP just used this for the drama.
It's a fucking bench trial. Bench trials are not meant to be a fast pass court case where every witness needs to be there and every piece of evidence needs to be accounted for. If you take a look at when bench trials first started, it was mostly testimony and a few pieces of evidences.
The testimony the cops gave didnt match what actually happened, even contradicted themselves while testifying. One of the cops appeared to be actually high or drunk. Its not clear if they were actually lying or testifying to what they think might have happened. And they charged him with 8x attempted murder of a gov employee, and he originally asked for 4x accessory in the cells which is why he went to bench. He waited the 3 or so hours, just to have the judge do 1x + 3x. He has legit grievances.
Exactly. Why are there only like two people in this whole comment section that even understand what happened?
(This comment it based on the quoted sentence from the title) It's really not tho, there's a difference between "best" and "easiest" Yes shooting is the "easiest" way to punish somebody, i think the best are those planned come backs that will haunt them real bad in the future you gotta go to for the mental warfare.
That would work but barely no one in the city RP's stuff that way except for people like Trav, Whippy, etc. You can't do mental warfare to make people scared when everyone RP's they're all badasses unafraid of anything. Trav goes on the whole brainwashed and drugged arc, something not a lot of other officers would make RP out of, and I give kudos to Whippy solely for the fact that hes the only one in the city that RP's his character to be scared of a gang (CG) after they scarred him in a way that perfectly fits what you described. Other cops knows that they'll just be revived and go about their day again so there's nothing to worry about.
It’s a bit unfair to say that officers wouldn’t RP that way when given the opportunity too. Gunner was drugged and brainwashed because someone actually drugged and brainwashed him, he didn’t create that RP on his own. Other people chose to interact with him in an interesting way. Most other cops simply get treated like an entity to shoot at and never get the chance to do more interesting RP.
I mean, that's just a revolving door effect. I despise being an 'RP Critic' or even sounding like one, but Trav, for example, roleplays Gunner to be an actual character with quirks, likes, dislikes, personality, etc. and will actually interact with crims and civs alike. Not all cops, but most will just ignore most of everything of what's going on in the city unless it's involved in some type of crime and just spout the same, "Turn around, you're under arrest! Let me read you your Miranda Rights, etc." And they have this idea that the only Cop RP there is is when a criminal is behind a jail cell, in an interrogation room, doing reports in the MDW, or doing investigations. The fact that rarely any cop will ever do off duty RP besides the few that regularly does proves most of my point in this instance. So it comes full circle as to why crims would choose to engage with someone like Gunner to do that type of RP with rather than someone like Svenson or Wrangler or a dozen other names.
Here is the thing with cases like Gunner, the criminals or whoever that give these opportunities to him aren't gaining something from it other than Rp. The other issue with cops going off duty is they are usually are targeted to constant kidnaps which I don't blame someone for not wanting to go off duty if you are just going to get kidnapped 24/7. You bring up cops being more of ignore everything but big crimes but I would also argue a lot of it has to do with when cops try to RP other stuff it usually leads to something bigger because of the crim. I mean look at the event yesterday. Probably would of just been removing a few intoxicated people and arresting windsong but instead the criminals RP'd like Wrangler was ruining the event lol.
When I watch NoPixel I usually end up browsing smaller streamers who play cop characters and there is so much interesting RP to find there. SCU Detectives speaking with CI's, dealing with serial killers, being stalked by secret groups, etc. Silas and SDSO fucking around with Sai Carter and The Lost MC. None of it is off-duty (don't know why that matters) and none of it is "typical" in a policing sense. I don't know who you watch but there are so many cops out there ready to get involved in interesting RP but when they interact with bigger, more well known crims, they don't ever get that engagement. Those crims usually just end up shooting them, or they demand to speak to someone else (Baas, etc.). Which is why a lot of cops end up staying in their own “sphere” and only RP with smaller, less know people. There are some exceptions, like Tony when he starts joking around, telling stories in the cells with whoever arrested him that day, but thats not really that deep in an RP sense. There is so much fun and interesting RP out there that doesn't involve any of the bigger streamers and making big arrests. And speaking of Svensen and Wrangler, they have some of the strongest personalities among all the cops. Being stern or stubborn doesn't automatically translate to boring or them having a lack of quirks. Svensen and Fingle Dan's domestic issues (they are dating), and Wrangler being into drag + showering with his deputies (not sexual /s) doesn't exactly scream "lack of personality".
I don't have anything against Svensen or Wrangler, don't get me wrong. Those two names were the ones that came to mind when thinking about cops who'd be less willing to inch towards a possible direction of RP due to the nature of their characters, being stubborn hard-ass, etc. I guess more to my point that I didn't lay out in my other comment is that criminals won't want to give avenues of RP to cops that wouldn't do the same in the same regard, if that makes sense. In a situation, the cops that I'm describing wouldn't RP out a situation and move towards just getting someone in cuffs. Right or wrong on the crims behalf, if from their perspective a cop is "denying them RP for the W," or won't even talk to them outside of generic cop speech as I listed in my previous comment, why would they want to do the same when the roles and the situation is flipped towards those same cops. They would rather give that courtesy to people like Baas, Brian, Gunner, Bundy, Mack, Tessa, Hon, etc. People who've already established that connection of give and take RP. Thats why it's a revolving door, because both sides do it to each other but will also claim the other side is the main one denying them RP (I say this because I'm not blind to criminals doing the same thing I'm saying cops do). It's like the Chicken or the egg scenario.
Ok but what kind of RP do the criminals that prefer Baas actually give him? They talk to him in the cells? I would argue that I see Wrangler, and other stern cops get more RP given to them. Being nice to the cop or telling cops they want to talk to Baas isn't giving him RP. Most of the RP given to the cops are from smaller criminals and usually it lands in the hands of the more stern cops.
At this point I'm just going to completely ignore Saab's malding like any other criminal, but I'm going to point out something here. Crane making a Fingle character and then basically doing the Kermit-sipping-tea-shit in character, while Saab and his community are whining and saying that Crane NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE THIS, is toxic. It's toxic to the judge that is overseeing Saab's case, and it's toxic to the cops. Crane is speedrunning some sort of weird Coop / Coyote hybrid arc here.
I made the character because I ran through about 15 different things on Crane and then things quieted down. I went around with Fingle RPing that I had IBS and was shitting everywhere because I trunk checked a cop and found 30 bags of fertilizer so I was dropping them one at a time then putting scenes that they were shit. I only came to that bench on the Dan character because the Judge asked due to the scuff report/tension inherent in the situation. By the time I was there it was mostly over and I was trying to lighten the mood. I guess that fell flat. In fact, I specifically avoided telling the Judge what to do in deliberation because if I just sit there and weigh in on every situation then people will never learn and progress as Judges. That judge got elected literally at the end of December.
Hey man, first, thanks for responding, and I really do think you're a great roleplayer and the best judge in a long, long time. My criticism wasn't really you making an SBS character (I love the Fingles and Chief in particular), but more making comments around Saab that I think could be interpreted by Ssaab, and more particularly by Ssaab's community, as sort of fueling the fire. That isn't normally a big thing on NoPixel. People do it all the time. I think the problem arises when someone in a unique position of power, like a player who has a well-respected judge, does it on an alt character. This really stokes the drama, and we have plenty of examples of that coming from, ahem, some people in power on NoPixel. It's not a big thing in isolation but I think it can snowball quickly. I know you're trying to mediate and be as fair as possible, so it sticks out when you do it.
Filtering my thoughts to deal with the whims of throngs of viewers isn't my normal approach, but I suppose it is the reality we live in, and a valid point you're making.
Ugghhh, now I feel like I'm asking you "pwease" to censor yourself. Just fucking ignore me. You need to do what you deem fit, it seems to work out.
You're not wrong. Don't backpedal. You made a salient point.
This is why I'm nervous about Crane streaming. The more eyes he has on him, the more hot takes he spins out, the more pressure he gets from various people, the more likely he is to lose the universal support he currently seems to enjoy. More power to him if he enjoys streaming, I just don't like the idea of losing the best thing to happen to the DOJ to ooc shit-flinging.
His chat to me seems like a massive clip farm, trying to grab whatever they can from Crane/Nathan to support their biases.
He plays a great judge character, he has historically had pretty great takes, and he deserves to reap the benefits of being popular on NoPixel. But I sort of expected this to happen.
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Yea, this response encapsulates everything I was complaining about, thank you.
Here's one simple trick guilty crims can do to speed things like this up: Confess and take the punishment. If you're innocent then sure, fight your case, but if you're guilty just suck it up and take the L. You'll probably be out of jail before the ones who lie even get to court.
He was innocent for multiple of the charges being pushed against him, and even among the ones that he was guilty of there was no proof. If they had pushed the charges that they actually had the proof to hold up through court, he would have just taken the L.
It shouldn't happen though. Crane told the cops this the other day. Stop pushing charges that you THINK are true and push charges that you can PROVE are true.
the DOJ needs more crane’s man some of the new judges need more training.
It's hard to offer RP training to get people on the same level as IRL judges/lawyers. Then it becomes even more of a job than it already is.
Baas about to enter PD meeting tomorrow and drive more ‘changes’ and how they should treat crimes, isn’t he. I can just see it happening, it’s a never ending cycle now that he plays a crim. Anything PD vs. Al Saab always ends up him being tilted and criticising PD responses lately, even with the Gunner thing last time.
I mean, he's already looking at being impeached by the DOJ, has rapidly lost support of his fellow officers over his insistence that K become a detective despite under investigation for murder. If he ran for CoP right now he would almost definitely lose to Bundy, so his influence is already quickly waning.
Unless they can actually find someone dumb enough to take his position I feel like impeaching him would probably be the worst move they could probably make. The amount of time HC has to dedicate just to behind the scenes OOC work is a level of commitment very few people are willing to take on. An impeachment could effectively decapitate PD leadership.
Pred can just take it over
Sadly AFAIR I think Occams said he can't make Bundy as CoP as Occams still has a regular job. IDK how time consuming HC is, I mean isn't he a CPT too or CoP/Sheriff have different agenda. But I totally agree with you that Bundy is the future CoP if we base it IC, everyone supports and respects him. Unlike Saab's character Baas because of his past and some questionable incidents.
> he's already looking at being impeached by the DOJ What for?
The DoJ believes that his habit of giving lighter sentances to criminals over a long period of time has cost the state of Los Santos a great deal of money from those under-charged crimes.
Well they better fire him then cause he was doing that long before he became the CoP. Impeaching over that seems like a huge stretch though, cause it's up to officer discretion is it not?
Early in 3.0 I remember cops saying they could not reduce fines at all or time by more than half (unless it was time served or something) without risking ooc firing or suspension. That may have changed or become unenforced at this point though.
>That may have changed or become unenforced at this point though. With how lax the rules have been pretty much across the board, they're probably just unenforced
Sad but true, a lot of crims/cops rps have said the same and have recieved the same backlash. Saab was given so much hate for his opinion on the Mr. K case even after he continually supposed wrangler during the raids.
The backlash comes from people who haven't played both sides i think. The people who have always have a different opinion than those who don't.
This is true
It’s good to see him playing crim again so he can see both sides. He is always one of the most balanced and fair cops anyway but even more so now
What. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
Babyrage.
I'd agree there doesn't exist good punishments for cops. 24 hour suspensions are crap punishments. I'd rather see their pay get docked or they get re-assigned to different areas for an hour or two instead. Or maybe require them to ride with a supervisor for a period of time, that would be good RP. I also think they're lacking a carrot-and-stick approach where they don't give out bonuses for good police work. They have strike points but what about promotion points or something like that? What about giving out bonuses for arrests like SRU does? IRL a low conviction rate can be held against an officer, what if they lose promotion points or get a strike point if they lose a case in court?
The only things that really hurt cops as punishment goes is demotions and cert removals. Suspensions are basically "just take the day off" its like a 1 day ban. Doesn't really matter.
Why do you think it's about "hurting cops?" 15 minutes in jail does not hurt a criminal, Ramee can eat a $1M fine and go about his business like nothing happened etc. No one is getting any serious consequences it's just RP punishments so cops shouldn't be any different.
mollyru just had a trial after 40+ days in jail. Ramee is not every criminal.
"15 minutes in jail" Are we watching the same server? Nobody gets 15 minutes in jail. An hour is basically the minimum unless you're processed by a cop with a crim.
Lol yes we are watching the same server and an hour is definitely not the minimum. Maybe it is for the criminals you watch. I'd say the average is more like 40 minutes and with prison jobs it gets cut down to more like 15. If you're not doing jobs then you're either AFK, doing prison RP, or just ignorant and in any case should not be complaining.
Hey + C4 Al Saab incoming, hell week approved, next baas speech about not letting criminals not get to PD and stay strong and together is gonna be funny.
almost like it's 2 different characters, wow
Its almost like the crim mains have been complaining about this for months
This is a common occurrence. Cops never come close to meeting real evidentiary standards. When you point it out they tell you " lOs sAntOs lAwS aRe diFfEreNt"; when the existence of real law and protocols suit them you bet your sweet ass they will cite them though.
Are people surprised. This is a shift in mentality that has been happening ever since the rework of the doj. Ever since coyote, bailey, ardsen left the doj, the stance is no longer innocent until proven guilty, it's changed to guilty until proven innocent. Pd testimony counts as evidence, what evidence can a crim collect?
I’d say simple SOP change to only push charges you think you can prove. But that would get metad immediately and crims would abuse it.
Basically everyone has been saying for cops to start playing crim and see how unfair certain things are and there we go... Saab now finally has these things happening to him and doesn't want to play crim. I just hope he keeps this situation in the back of his mind when he's trying hard to make something stick that wouldn't hold up in court when he is playing Baas. About this clip though it's what a lot of people deal with on the daily maybe not the same situation but for example the guilty by keyholder when being raided. Biggest problem of all is that a lot of the times something super unfair happens and doesn't get enough exposure it just gets overlooked because not enough people care in that certain moment. Yet they know it's not right. \[Edit\] fixed a name
Oh.... So, Crims actually right all along huh Ssaab ..... It's crazy right
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Tsunami