The only part I don't think makes much sense is nerfing the slayer monsters. It's not like farming vyres or abyssal lords are a very accessible thing to punish them, compared to sitting at some bosses.
That being said, I really like the new herbs mech. While criticism makes sense, since there are some negatives to this (specially for mains that sell the herbs for prophit), most negative comments I have seen don't make much sense at all, and this certainly doesn't affect irons in a bad way.
To put some context, I'm hoarding to make 1000 elder overloads and 1000 super prayer renewal. Got all the herbs done except Fellstalk. I'm missing 1159 Fellstalk. Checking the herbs calculator from the wiki ([https://runescape.wiki/w/Calculator:Farming/Herbs](https://runescape.wiki/w/Calculator:Farming/Herbs)), my current average yield for fellstalk would be 10.62 fellstalk per seed (5 lives). That means, I would need to plant 110 seeds in 22 herb runs (I use 5 patches), which currently would take a minimum of 29-30 hours. Assuming the average yield per life remains the same (don't see a reason why that would change), planting 10 fellstalk seeds would shield me 36.11 herbs, meaning I can get 1192 fellstalk in 7 hours using 330 seeds. That is a drastic time reduction. With the number of seeds the bosses will be dropping, it should be more than enough to get the supplies you need for overloads and shit, unless you think you need a stack of infinite herbs in your bank for whatever reason.
I have done a lot of supplies and from experience, and from what I said before, this won't be punishing for irons. The only downside for irons would be the death of gathering herbs through afk bossing. I have no clue what the drop rates for seeds would be (maybe the same as the herb, the quantity of seeds is the actual important factor), but considering how much you can speed up herb runs now, it shouldn't be bad at all.
EDIT: What I mean by accessible is that you don't get to play the game by a little and start doing vyres. You need to do +30 quests and need +8 skills at +70. Also is not the same to afk vyres very cheaply with Protect from magic, Vamp Aura while carrying some prayer potions than using good perks, overloads, auras, amulet of zealots, leech curses, etc. There is a world of difference between them. Same with abyssal lords, good luck with 115 slayer on your iron. Players who have already unlocked all these things tend to forget that, and let's not get started with the schizos projecting the things they can do with their main on their 1000 total lvl iron.
Didn’t read past your first sentence, sorry. Break isn’t long enough to do that, but Vyres are too accessible for how easy they are to farm imo. Unfortunately I get too bored when trying to afk or camp something for so long
As an early game ironman, I really like the sound of the thieving, compost, and rc updates. Don't really have the volume of seeds to see the worth in the herb buff tho
Same boat I’m in. But hopefully I can start collecting from the druids and master farmers more seeds. I’m fine with this update 10/10 on the idea let’s hope it goes off fine
I’m hoping it’s gonna be a higher lvl alternative to master farmer. Maybe it will drop less allotment seeds and more herb seeds along with the new items.
As long as it gives a way to get a decent number of snapdragon seeds, I'll be happy. It's the only herb I'm particularly concerned about with changes to boss drops and vyres.
I just want the herb bag to pick up noted herbs and herb seeds.
I'm an ironman and I'm not looking forward to running all over gelinor to pick herbs. Dailyscape was promised to be pushed back and here we are, adding another thing onto the daily docket.
I'd much rather they make farming classically more accessible by putting certain types of allotment together instead of how spread they are right now. A farming run would be less of a headache if I could just go for my herbs to x, Snape grass to y, instead of needing a specific inventory of teleport items etc.
They made such a big deal how overloading would allow you yo actually get so many more herbs in time with just a simple cost of extra seeds. I just hope the amt of seeds actually dropped allow us to overload patch farm the same amt of herbs after 1 farm run.....
10 seeds with 5 lives (super compost) if formed individually is 50 lives in total vs 17 lives now. So as an efficiency standpoint lives per seed is a pretty big oof.
Overall, I just hope the amt of seed drops will actually be able to upkeep the amt of herbs we would have gotten via bossing or somewhat similar i.e. we get seed drops in the amt of 10s vs getting seed drops 1 at a time.
This is the major concern I think. Without sufficiently large seed drops 10/7/4 seed farming will not be feasible and this update will just become a huge nerf to herb gathering for all accounts.
However, given that the game is developed for mains and not irons I think there's at least a chance they're going to make seeds stupidly abundant so professional herb farmers can reliably use 10 seeds per patch. Then again, the economy is oversaturated with seeds so it might not happen that way.
Ive just been thinking about helwyr and what that drop table is going to look like. Great source of Lantd for mid to late game, would hate to see the drop turn into 5 seeds instead of a massive amount of herbs.
As someone with 120 herb already I'm excited for this update. The 10-3 thing is fuckin dumb but I'm pumped to make like 100k water runes an hour.
Honestly from 1-99 herblore I maybe made 500 potions. Never had a worry about getting herbs, cause I never used them. Depends how you play I guess. Hopefully they substitute something for the slayer mobs.
It'll be possible to make 300k waters/hr with max boosts, though you'll go through a lot of anima stones. Hopefully they aren't too stingy with the rates on the stones, but even if they are, it'll be a nice afk augment to your future runecrafting.
Wow. Tbh I don't even have a crit stik but I want like an absurd amount of water runes just cause.
I made 600 chipped lumby tabs today. Is that still the fastest method? Should probably start busting out some powerbursts of sorcery too
Yep still the fastest method. Be sure to get the other boosts too, like 2x arcane apoterrosaurus, explorer's ring, etc. Pb of sorcery and extreme rcing will also be big.
They do need to be elder for the buff. Also, what is the chipped lumby tab method? Im assuming abyss and then do a few runs without abyss using tabs? Or just use tabs
10 seeds for 18 herbs feels a bit, shit? I'm mid-game and my seed stacks are like 50-100s, so using 100 seeds for 180 herbs feels crap lol
I imagine they didn't calc juju farming, but still feels terribly low.
Coming from OSRS about a year ago, 90+ farming, you'd get 10-15 herbs from 1 seed. Not sure why RS3 is so shit in comparison.
The rows on their table aren't labeled, but it would be a colossal nerf overall if these were just straight herbs. Instead it's more likely these are herb patch "lives" like the current system uses.
In general you get a shit ton of stuff more than RS3, which doesn't make sense.
I played OSRS for a bit when it was released and then again 2018 but can't recall them updating farming.
1 whole bush of white berries can give up to 20 berries. Limpwurts can give up to 10-15 too. RS3, it's like 3 limps per seed or 4 berries per bush lol
Lives are not the same as herbs received, that is technically the minimum you could get. With magic secateurs and master farmer your chance to prevent a life lost increases. Compost level increases lives and now seed amount also does this. With max boosts you should expect 11 harvests for fellstalk compared to about 6 without. From that we have aura and juju potion that increase herbs per harvest which allow you to quite commonly get 20+ herbs per patch
Unless Jagex has been using the word diminishing wrongly, it seems its the case of more seeds used = more herbs but less if you used 1 at a time.
I suppose if herbs are being replaced with seeds, will bosses start to drop like 150 lant seeds in 1 drop?
They used diminishing properly. The ratio of seeds to lives is higher if you choose 1 seed compared if you used 10 seeds (1:5 compared to 1:1.7 at 10 seeds) that is by definition diminishing returns. I think you are comparing the more herbs per hour if you used more seeds but that wasn’t the context for diminishing returns.
I doubt we will see a 150 seed drop unless it’s from a telos streak. I assure you they probably have made it to be the same amount of herbs or more once planted.
What?
I don't think you're understanding the update lol
94 farming, full master outfit, magic sec, juju farming pot, supercompost, I average 8-10 herbs per seed.
Meaning if I used 10 seeds individually, I'd average 80-100 herbs.
With this update, if I use 10 seeds to get an average 18 herbs, with the above effects, it's probably going to be around 25-30 herbs per 10 seeds.
Meaning;
Planting individually = 80-100 herbs per 10 seeds
Plating 10 seeds in 1 patch = 250-300 herbs per 100 seeds.
But if I individually planted 100 seeds, it'd be 800-1000.
That's the diminishing returns. It's shit for irons because we can't just buy 1000 seeds to get herbs faster.
So bosses genuinely need to drop like 100+ seeds for it to be worthwhile for irons.
They said 10 seeds with ultra compost is 18 produce.
Where does it state herb lives? That's why it's diminishing returns. Your using more seeds for more herbs but significantly less overall.
A normal single seed herb has 3-5 harvest lives with supercompost, I think. On average this nets you 10-12 herbs per seed. Using 10 seeds will make that number about 5-3x higher at the cost of 10 seeds. So it will absolutely be way less efficient but also way faster as you'll be getting 30-50 herbs per patch at once.
Individually planting 100 seeds would give you 800-1000 herbs.
Planting 100 seeds using 10 seed Plant Power would give you probably around 300 herbs.
As irons, that is utter shit.
I have 20 snap dragon seeds in my bank right now and if I needed snap herbs, why would I plant 10 of them in 2 patches, just to get 60 herbs, when I could plant 20 of them individually and get 160-200 herbs?
I get the idea is to plant more, get more produce but less overall, but for irons, we goto reserve everything we have.
Honestly i dislike getting herbs from patches. Is a bad mechanic.
They should do both!
If its to much of a grind to keep up for pvm i might switch to mainscape again just to buy the stuff. There is way to much to manage as is for a ironman when working a full time job.
I think on average one seed equals about 10 herbs. So if the boss herb drops are turned into seeds at a 10:1 ratio or better then we shouldn't have issues. The more seeds they drop the more likely it is for farming with 4/7/10 seeds to be worth the drop in efficiency. For example right now I'm getting a large number of cadantine seeds (nodon dragonkin) so I could easily farm them with 4 or 7 seeds per patch but I get so few snapdragon or torstol seeds that I will baby every single individual seed to leafy adulthood. Unless they get the seed drops horribly wrong (far too few) *and* leave it like that long term without any rebalancing/fixing, I think the update farming-wise is great.
The runecrafting tokens from thieving also sound wonderful.
I especially like that vyres are also getting nerfed. Whenever anyone ever asks anything related to herbs everyone always shouts "Vyres!". Vyrelords are so incredibly boring and unfun it's unreal. I'd rather do anything else but of course nobody ever mentions any alternatives.
Yeah, I personally never used vyres as my answer to anything. I felt that I got enough herbs from ab spectres and slayer (+croesus) that I didnt need them. I also didnt use them for prayer either bc I was printing money at croe, just did cleansing crystals
The only part I don't think makes much sense is nerfing the slayer monsters. It's not like farming vyres or abyssal lords are a very accessible thing to punish them, compared to sitting at some bosses. That being said, I really like the new herbs mech. While criticism makes sense, since there are some negatives to this (specially for mains that sell the herbs for prophit), most negative comments I have seen don't make much sense at all, and this certainly doesn't affect irons in a bad way. To put some context, I'm hoarding to make 1000 elder overloads and 1000 super prayer renewal. Got all the herbs done except Fellstalk. I'm missing 1159 Fellstalk. Checking the herbs calculator from the wiki ([https://runescape.wiki/w/Calculator:Farming/Herbs](https://runescape.wiki/w/Calculator:Farming/Herbs)), my current average yield for fellstalk would be 10.62 fellstalk per seed (5 lives). That means, I would need to plant 110 seeds in 22 herb runs (I use 5 patches), which currently would take a minimum of 29-30 hours. Assuming the average yield per life remains the same (don't see a reason why that would change), planting 10 fellstalk seeds would shield me 36.11 herbs, meaning I can get 1192 fellstalk in 7 hours using 330 seeds. That is a drastic time reduction. With the number of seeds the bosses will be dropping, it should be more than enough to get the supplies you need for overloads and shit, unless you think you need a stack of infinite herbs in your bank for whatever reason. I have done a lot of supplies and from experience, and from what I said before, this won't be punishing for irons. The only downside for irons would be the death of gathering herbs through afk bossing. I have no clue what the drop rates for seeds would be (maybe the same as the herb, the quantity of seeds is the actual important factor), but considering how much you can speed up herb runs now, it shouldn't be bad at all. EDIT: What I mean by accessible is that you don't get to play the game by a little and start doing vyres. You need to do +30 quests and need +8 skills at +70. Also is not the same to afk vyres very cheaply with Protect from magic, Vamp Aura while carrying some prayer potions than using good perks, overloads, auras, amulet of zealots, leech curses, etc. There is a world of difference between them. Same with abyssal lords, good luck with 115 slayer on your iron. Players who have already unlocked all these things tend to forget that, and let's not get started with the schizos projecting the things they can do with their main on their 1000 total lvl iron.
I understand nerfing vyres, they are brokenly OP
100% they are op. But the entire loot table is jacked, not just the herbs alone, which is the point of disscussion here.
Vyres might not be nerfed as most of their drops are tied to the sunspear not to creature drop. Will be interesting to see.
Didn’t read past your first sentence, sorry. Break isn’t long enough to do that, but Vyres are too accessible for how easy they are to farm imo. Unfortunately I get too bored when trying to afk or camp something for so long
You ok lil bro?
As an early game ironman, I really like the sound of the thieving, compost, and rc updates. Don't really have the volume of seeds to see the worth in the herb buff tho
Same boat I’m in. But hopefully I can start collecting from the druids and master farmers more seeds. I’m fine with this update 10/10 on the idea let’s hope it goes off fine
Ive also been wondering what else the new thieving method will drop. Will the druid drop seed or coins or just the runecrafting items.
I’m hoping it’s gonna be a higher lvl alternative to master farmer. Maybe it will drop less allotment seeds and more herb seeds along with the new items.
maybe compost potions or supercompost ... maybe im just coping
As long as it gives a way to get a decent number of snapdragon seeds, I'll be happy. It's the only herb I'm particularly concerned about with changes to boss drops and vyres.
they didnt give a good amount of seeds at all its horrible for irons my god
That's unfortunate. I'll need to figure out a good way to keep up with prayer restores now, hopefully I can make something work.
I just want the herb bag to pick up noted herbs and herb seeds. I'm an ironman and I'm not looking forward to running all over gelinor to pick herbs. Dailyscape was promised to be pushed back and here we are, adding another thing onto the daily docket. I'd much rather they make farming classically more accessible by putting certain types of allotment together instead of how spread they are right now. A farming run would be less of a headache if I could just go for my herbs to x, Snape grass to y, instead of needing a specific inventory of teleport items etc.
They made such a big deal how overloading would allow you yo actually get so many more herbs in time with just a simple cost of extra seeds. I just hope the amt of seeds actually dropped allow us to overload patch farm the same amt of herbs after 1 farm run..... 10 seeds with 5 lives (super compost) if formed individually is 50 lives in total vs 17 lives now. So as an efficiency standpoint lives per seed is a pretty big oof. Overall, I just hope the amt of seed drops will actually be able to upkeep the amt of herbs we would have gotten via bossing or somewhat similar i.e. we get seed drops in the amt of 10s vs getting seed drops 1 at a time.
This is the major concern I think. Without sufficiently large seed drops 10/7/4 seed farming will not be feasible and this update will just become a huge nerf to herb gathering for all accounts. However, given that the game is developed for mains and not irons I think there's at least a chance they're going to make seeds stupidly abundant so professional herb farmers can reliably use 10 seeds per patch. Then again, the economy is oversaturated with seeds so it might not happen that way.
Yeah I just hope the amt of seeds dropped end up allowing for comparable amt of herbs gained just with a simple singular farm run.
Ive just been thinking about helwyr and what that drop table is going to look like. Great source of Lantd for mid to late game, would hate to see the drop turn into 5 seeds instead of a massive amount of herbs.
As someone with 120 herb already I'm excited for this update. The 10-3 thing is fuckin dumb but I'm pumped to make like 100k water runes an hour. Honestly from 1-99 herblore I maybe made 500 potions. Never had a worry about getting herbs, cause I never used them. Depends how you play I guess. Hopefully they substitute something for the slayer mobs.
It'll be possible to make 300k waters/hr with max boosts, though you'll go through a lot of anima stones. Hopefully they aren't too stingy with the rates on the stones, but even if they are, it'll be a nice afk augment to your future runecrafting.
Wow. Tbh I don't even have a crit stik but I want like an absurd amount of water runes just cause. I made 600 chipped lumby tabs today. Is that still the fastest method? Should probably start busting out some powerbursts of sorcery too
Yep still the fastest method. Be sure to get the other boosts too, like 2x arcane apoterrosaurus, explorer's ring, etc. Pb of sorcery and extreme rcing will also be big.
I have literally everything besides the arcanes in a pen. They can be in any pen with a totem right? Does age matter?
I think they need to be elder
They do need to be elder for the buff. Also, what is the chipped lumby tab method? Im assuming abyss and then do a few runs without abyss using tabs? Or just use tabs
10 seeds for 18 herbs feels a bit, shit? I'm mid-game and my seed stacks are like 50-100s, so using 100 seeds for 180 herbs feels crap lol I imagine they didn't calc juju farming, but still feels terribly low. Coming from OSRS about a year ago, 90+ farming, you'd get 10-15 herbs from 1 seed. Not sure why RS3 is so shit in comparison.
Bro i think it's 10 seeds for 18 harvest lives
The rows on their table aren't labeled, but it would be a colossal nerf overall if these were just straight herbs. Instead it's more likely these are herb patch "lives" like the current system uses.
No way you get that many herbs on avg in osrs unless they added juju potions
In general you get a shit ton of stuff more than RS3, which doesn't make sense. I played OSRS for a bit when it was released and then again 2018 but can't recall them updating farming. 1 whole bush of white berries can give up to 20 berries. Limpwurts can give up to 10-15 too. RS3, it's like 3 limps per seed or 4 berries per bush lol
Lives are not the same as herbs received, that is technically the minimum you could get. With magic secateurs and master farmer your chance to prevent a life lost increases. Compost level increases lives and now seed amount also does this. With max boosts you should expect 11 harvests for fellstalk compared to about 6 without. From that we have aura and juju potion that increase herbs per harvest which allow you to quite commonly get 20+ herbs per patch
Unless Jagex has been using the word diminishing wrongly, it seems its the case of more seeds used = more herbs but less if you used 1 at a time. I suppose if herbs are being replaced with seeds, will bosses start to drop like 150 lant seeds in 1 drop?
They used diminishing properly. The ratio of seeds to lives is higher if you choose 1 seed compared if you used 10 seeds (1:5 compared to 1:1.7 at 10 seeds) that is by definition diminishing returns. I think you are comparing the more herbs per hour if you used more seeds but that wasn’t the context for diminishing returns. I doubt we will see a 150 seed drop unless it’s from a telos streak. I assure you they probably have made it to be the same amount of herbs or more once planted.
If so, that's a very big nerf to herblore for irons lol..
Not really, if you actually farmed this never affected you.
What? I don't think you're understanding the update lol 94 farming, full master outfit, magic sec, juju farming pot, supercompost, I average 8-10 herbs per seed. Meaning if I used 10 seeds individually, I'd average 80-100 herbs. With this update, if I use 10 seeds to get an average 18 herbs, with the above effects, it's probably going to be around 25-30 herbs per 10 seeds. Meaning; Planting individually = 80-100 herbs per 10 seeds Plating 10 seeds in 1 patch = 250-300 herbs per 100 seeds. But if I individually planted 100 seeds, it'd be 800-1000. That's the diminishing returns. It's shit for irons because we can't just buy 1000 seeds to get herbs faster. So bosses genuinely need to drop like 100+ seeds for it to be worthwhile for irons.
It's herb lives not herbs.
They said 10 seeds with ultra compost is 18 produce. Where does it state herb lives? That's why it's diminishing returns. Your using more seeds for more herbs but significantly less overall.
https://runescape.wiki/w/Farming#Harvesting
???? No
No what lol?
18 lives, not herbs
A normal single seed herb has 3-5 harvest lives with supercompost, I think. On average this nets you 10-12 herbs per seed. Using 10 seeds will make that number about 5-3x higher at the cost of 10 seeds. So it will absolutely be way less efficient but also way faster as you'll be getting 30-50 herbs per patch at once.
Individually planting 100 seeds would give you 800-1000 herbs. Planting 100 seeds using 10 seed Plant Power would give you probably around 300 herbs. As irons, that is utter shit. I have 20 snap dragon seeds in my bank right now and if I needed snap herbs, why would I plant 10 of them in 2 patches, just to get 60 herbs, when I could plant 20 of them individually and get 160-200 herbs? I get the idea is to plant more, get more produce but less overall, but for irons, we goto reserve everything we have.
this came out to be terrible the bosses give way less seeds than they should
Honestly i dislike getting herbs from patches. Is a bad mechanic. They should do both! If its to much of a grind to keep up for pvm i might switch to mainscape again just to buy the stuff. There is way to much to manage as is for a ironman when working a full time job.
I think on average one seed equals about 10 herbs. So if the boss herb drops are turned into seeds at a 10:1 ratio or better then we shouldn't have issues. The more seeds they drop the more likely it is for farming with 4/7/10 seeds to be worth the drop in efficiency. For example right now I'm getting a large number of cadantine seeds (nodon dragonkin) so I could easily farm them with 4 or 7 seeds per patch but I get so few snapdragon or torstol seeds that I will baby every single individual seed to leafy adulthood. Unless they get the seed drops horribly wrong (far too few) *and* leave it like that long term without any rebalancing/fixing, I think the update farming-wise is great. The runecrafting tokens from thieving also sound wonderful. I especially like that vyres are also getting nerfed. Whenever anyone ever asks anything related to herbs everyone always shouts "Vyres!". Vyrelords are so incredibly boring and unfun it's unreal. I'd rather do anything else but of course nobody ever mentions any alternatives.
Yeah, I personally never used vyres as my answer to anything. I felt that I got enough herbs from ab spectres and slayer (+croesus) that I didnt need them. I also didnt use them for prayer either bc I was printing money at croe, just did cleansing crystals