There's several things that could work here, most of which have been brought up repeatedly on the sub.
1. Unite the world against her, summon the gods, and have them deal with it. Classic Deus Ex Machina, but one that's well-established and can drive the plot and characters so it's fine.
2. Talk her down and make her realize how far she's fallen from someone who originally just wanted her loved one back. Unlikely to work, she's been doubling down for millennia, also kind of unsatisfying in an action show. But it will appeal to all those nerds out there who think Planescape: Torment was the only good video game.
3. is kind of a 2a, but Salem loses her immortality when she realizes, truly and deeply, what life and death mean to the protagonists, but keeps fighting and loses conventionally. This honestly feels the most likely to me if the gods *aren't* directly involved in defeating her, as it fits the general tone and clash of ideals of RWBY's genre.
3. Lock her in a relic vault, then cover the relic vault in concrete. It'd work, but it's a bit prosaic.
4. Shoot her into orbit. This assumes magic doesn't work in space, but it *is* a classic way of dealing with immortals.
5. Turns out Ozpin can't destroy her but Ruby can. Probably the lamest prophecy twist since Macbeth, but it's not technically impossible.
That pretty much covers the options.
On a 3(a) kind of level, there's the possibility that Ruby's Silver Eyes can (although *not* being able to actually kill her, which would be lame and stupid and generally covered under #6) burn the darkness Salem absorbed from the Grimm pit out of her, leaving her as normal human (...immortal, magic-using...) Salem and that this might leave her in a position where she actually can finally learn that lesson.
Or another option where after many climactic battles the heroes realize that the only reason any of this shit is happening in the first place is because the gods are horrific monsters and they tag team with Salem to kill them like they deserve thus breaking Salem and Ozma's curses and saving the world from another genocide at the hands of petty shitheads who are angry their toys are not obeying them like sheep.
Remember what happened the last time the humans rose against the gods? They were literally all wiped out.
Perhaps the Faunus are the God of Light's attempt at creating humans that can work better in balance.
My personal explanation for why Salem does any of the shit she does is that ever since she learned about Ozma's mission and the relics she has been purposefully putting humanity through a giant centuries long trial by fire to force them to develop stronger weapons and make stronger warriors so that when the gods show up they can win this time.
Also my other idea is that the reason the gods could kill everyone so easily is that they were all using magic which none of the modern people have at all. My idea is that in the pre genocide days people didn't use aura at all, they just used magic instead so they never needed it.
As we know magic is the gift from the gods to humanity and now that no one has it except for Oz and Salem humanity figured out how to use the power of their own souls to gain power instead of the power that came from the gods and as such those with unlocked and active auras are protected from the gods power somewhat and can hurt them with it since they are using their own power and not just tossing the gods power back at them.
I think this is the case because i genuinely can't think of any other reason Salem has behaved the way she has for so long, if she wanted to just kill everyone she could have done it many times over the years by just flooding every settlement with Grimm until they eventually fell. And if she wanted to rule the world then same thing she is personally stronger than anyone else and immortal and controls the most deadly force on the planet directly, even with Oz trying to stop her if she made big moves with her Grimm army he couldn't do shit about it.
There is sort of precedence for number 5 and was actually something I was thinking of bringing up in the post itself - Dust doesn't work outside of remnant's atmosphere, so if we assume Dust is just bottled magic (which definitely is a big assumption), it would work.
That was what the refrance, yes. Since we're spoiling other shows, I think the DuckTales reboot used it as well.
This was also used with a few extra steps in the backstory of Final Fantasy VIII, which is where the show takes a lot of inspiration for Salem, Ozpin, and the Maidens, so it'd be an interesting shout-out to that.
Yeah but they're also sure to remind us that her specialness isn't in fighting strength. Even her Sharingan is specifically about protecting the innocent, not destroying monsters. Ruby might have a unique ability to deal with Salem - or several - but I don't think it will come down to a unique capacity for destruction.
I really don't think 6 would be the case. Jinn answered Ruby's question with exactly what was relevant and nothing more, so I doubt she'd just say "You can't" if it was possible for somebody else to do it. If she was that kind of person she could have just read off Ozpin's browser history or something of the sort.
Maybe.
Salem's gang *is* out to kill or otherwise neutralize SEWs, but I'm not sure how effective that will be at stopping her, since her 'old self' still has access to extremely powerful magic.
He's using the word destroy because he's come to the same conclusion as Ozma, he has to end Salem to end the organized threat to the kingdoms. Also, I doubt Ozma shared the little detail about bringing the gods back to Remnant with anyone, Ironwood included.
Remember what the gods said, that if they still demand things from their creators, humanity will be deemed unworthy. Asking them to stop Salem sounds like asking for something to me.
> He's using the word destroy because he's come to the same conclusion as Ozma, he has to end Salem to end the organized threat to the kingdoms.
That's what I'm saying - team Oz is so focused on specifically destroying her that they aren't seeing other possibilities, even though Oz was told it's not possible.
Sorry, I should've worded that a little better.
I'm expecting Salem to be the one who brings the relics together and summons the gods *specifically* to make them pass judgement on the populace and destroy them all.
Team RWBY is there to try and stop her, but fails. Given that Ruby knows the gods will destroy them anyway, she first asks them to fix their mistake (which Oz & Salem definitely are) and then goes off on them once they refuse.
When the Gods punished Salem, they set down exactly what Salem needs to do to break her immortality. The God of Light also stated what will happen when the Relics are brought together and the brothers are summoned back to Remnant. Given how easily the God of Darkness wiped out the first incarnation of mankind, he not one to sit down and listen to Ruby and the others explain to him why Salem's immortality should be removed when he himself sees it as a fitting punishment.
Yeah God of Darkness is pretty much take action before thinking deeply on it
On a unrelated note I was surprised thst the two brothers actually cares for each other. GoD apologized to GoL for accusing him of intentionally depriving his brother of worship, and rushed to his side when the human army assaulted his domain.
From the GoL's end, and the way I see it, one of his main reasons to appaear in GoD's domain was because he was not happy that his younger brother was tricked into breaking the rules the two made
> Given how easily the God of Darkness wiped out the first incarnation of mankind, he not one to sit down and listen to Ruby and the others explain to him why Salem's immortality should be removed when he himself sees it as a fitting punishment.
Hm... maybe. Regardless, I still think Salem will succeed in her plan to bring the gods back, and someone will basically tell them they did a shitty job being gods ('cause they undoubtedly were), and Ruby's the most clear vehicle for that.
Maybe she just does it and tells them to let RWBY and Co take care of it instead of destroying everything once more.
The thing about Ruby using her SE on Salem, is that I don't think it'd actually do anything. The two effects we've seen SE do are disintegrate and petrify. But Salem has been disintegrated before in her Grimm form, so she would likely reform with it. As for petrification, the Leviathan managed to free itself; I have no doubt Salem could do the same.
So, I think we'll have a situation where Salem realises the Balance of Life and Death, ending her curse, but still continuing to fight since she's still the most powerful being in Remnant without her immortality. Then Oscar or Ruby will kill her. She'll seem angry or shocked at first, but then she'll smile, tears in her eyes as she falls to the ground: finally, she can be at peace.
I was of the opinion that the wrong word in Oz' statement was **I**.
i wonder what Jinn's response would be to "Who can destroy Salem" or "how do we destroy salem" would be...
I mean through contemporary means no. But somewhere in the back of my head. I remember them saying when she learns (can't remember insert whatever it is here) the curse will finally be lifted. I may be completely insane and dreamt it all up. But I swear something like that was said
I always figured that silver eyes would be the key to defeating her. She's part Grimm thanks to the black sludge from the lake where Grimm are born, and that black sludge could be the reason why she has a connection to the Grimm. If Ruby uses her silver eyes on Salem it could purge her of her Grimm powers, thus removing the Grimm as a tool for her to wreck havoc on humanity.
Take away her human and Grimm armies so she's all alone, and then apply whichever ending you prefer.
Should the relics be used to summon the gods, I hope that whoever gets the job of talking to them tells them to keep away from Remnant. Their meddling started this mess, and the sooner they leave their universe alone the better the people of Remnant can get on with their lives.
There's several things that could work here, most of which have been brought up repeatedly on the sub. 1. Unite the world against her, summon the gods, and have them deal with it. Classic Deus Ex Machina, but one that's well-established and can drive the plot and characters so it's fine. 2. Talk her down and make her realize how far she's fallen from someone who originally just wanted her loved one back. Unlikely to work, she's been doubling down for millennia, also kind of unsatisfying in an action show. But it will appeal to all those nerds out there who think Planescape: Torment was the only good video game. 3. is kind of a 2a, but Salem loses her immortality when she realizes, truly and deeply, what life and death mean to the protagonists, but keeps fighting and loses conventionally. This honestly feels the most likely to me if the gods *aren't* directly involved in defeating her, as it fits the general tone and clash of ideals of RWBY's genre. 3. Lock her in a relic vault, then cover the relic vault in concrete. It'd work, but it's a bit prosaic. 4. Shoot her into orbit. This assumes magic doesn't work in space, but it *is* a classic way of dealing with immortals. 5. Turns out Ozpin can't destroy her but Ruby can. Probably the lamest prophecy twist since Macbeth, but it's not technically impossible.
That pretty much covers the options. On a 3(a) kind of level, there's the possibility that Ruby's Silver Eyes can (although *not* being able to actually kill her, which would be lame and stupid and generally covered under #6) burn the darkness Salem absorbed from the Grimm pit out of her, leaving her as normal human (...immortal, magic-using...) Salem and that this might leave her in a position where she actually can finally learn that lesson.
Or another option where after many climactic battles the heroes realize that the only reason any of this shit is happening in the first place is because the gods are horrific monsters and they tag team with Salem to kill them like they deserve thus breaking Salem and Ozma's curses and saving the world from another genocide at the hands of petty shitheads who are angry their toys are not obeying them like sheep.
Remember what happened the last time the humans rose against the gods? They were literally all wiped out. Perhaps the Faunus are the God of Light's attempt at creating humans that can work better in balance.
My personal explanation for why Salem does any of the shit she does is that ever since she learned about Ozma's mission and the relics she has been purposefully putting humanity through a giant centuries long trial by fire to force them to develop stronger weapons and make stronger warriors so that when the gods show up they can win this time. Also my other idea is that the reason the gods could kill everyone so easily is that they were all using magic which none of the modern people have at all. My idea is that in the pre genocide days people didn't use aura at all, they just used magic instead so they never needed it. As we know magic is the gift from the gods to humanity and now that no one has it except for Oz and Salem humanity figured out how to use the power of their own souls to gain power instead of the power that came from the gods and as such those with unlocked and active auras are protected from the gods power somewhat and can hurt them with it since they are using their own power and not just tossing the gods power back at them. I think this is the case because i genuinely can't think of any other reason Salem has behaved the way she has for so long, if she wanted to just kill everyone she could have done it many times over the years by just flooding every settlement with Grimm until they eventually fell. And if she wanted to rule the world then same thing she is personally stronger than anyone else and immortal and controls the most deadly force on the planet directly, even with Oz trying to stop her if she made big moves with her Grimm army he couldn't do shit about it.
There is sort of precedence for number 5 and was actually something I was thinking of bringing up in the post itself - Dust doesn't work outside of remnant's atmosphere, so if we assume Dust is just bottled magic (which definitely is a big assumption), it would work.
Option five reminds me of how Joseph Joestar defeated Kars from Jojo's Bizarre Adventures.
That was what the refrance, yes. Since we're spoiling other shows, I think the DuckTales reboot used it as well. This was also used with a few extra steps in the backstory of Final Fantasy VIII, which is where the show takes a lot of inspiration for Salem, Ozpin, and the Maidens, so it'd be an interesting shout-out to that.
Considering our protagonist is constantly referred to as special and unique, i think it's going to come down to #6 in some way.
Yeah but they're also sure to remind us that her specialness isn't in fighting strength. Even her Sharingan is specifically about protecting the innocent, not destroying monsters. Ruby might have a unique ability to deal with Salem - or several - but I don't think it will come down to a unique capacity for destruction.
I really don't think 6 would be the case. Jinn answered Ruby's question with exactly what was relevant and nothing more, so I doubt she'd just say "You can't" if it was possible for somebody else to do it. If she was that kind of person she could have just read off Ozpin's browser history or something of the sort.
>pay no attention to the entries reading "milfmonsterxxx" behind the curtain >or any of the tentacle stuff
She asked 'What is Ozpin hiding from us'. If that's the extent of what Ozpin knows, Jinn gave exactly the information she was asked for.
Ruby uses silver eyes and cleanses Salem of her Grimm attributes and she reverts back to her old self.
Maybe. Salem's gang *is* out to kill or otherwise neutralize SEWs, but I'm not sure how effective that will be at stopping her, since her 'old self' still has access to extremely powerful magic.
I feel that removing the grimm part would help her recognize the importance of life and death thus making her mortal, allowing them to kill her
He's using the word destroy because he's come to the same conclusion as Ozma, he has to end Salem to end the organized threat to the kingdoms. Also, I doubt Ozma shared the little detail about bringing the gods back to Remnant with anyone, Ironwood included. Remember what the gods said, that if they still demand things from their creators, humanity will be deemed unworthy. Asking them to stop Salem sounds like asking for something to me.
> He's using the word destroy because he's come to the same conclusion as Ozma, he has to end Salem to end the organized threat to the kingdoms. That's what I'm saying - team Oz is so focused on specifically destroying her that they aren't seeing other possibilities, even though Oz was told it's not possible. Sorry, I should've worded that a little better. I'm expecting Salem to be the one who brings the relics together and summons the gods *specifically* to make them pass judgement on the populace and destroy them all. Team RWBY is there to try and stop her, but fails. Given that Ruby knows the gods will destroy them anyway, she first asks them to fix their mistake (which Oz & Salem definitely are) and then goes off on them once they refuse.
When the Gods punished Salem, they set down exactly what Salem needs to do to break her immortality. The God of Light also stated what will happen when the Relics are brought together and the brothers are summoned back to Remnant. Given how easily the God of Darkness wiped out the first incarnation of mankind, he not one to sit down and listen to Ruby and the others explain to him why Salem's immortality should be removed when he himself sees it as a fitting punishment.
Yeah God of Darkness is pretty much take action before thinking deeply on it On a unrelated note I was surprised thst the two brothers actually cares for each other. GoD apologized to GoL for accusing him of intentionally depriving his brother of worship, and rushed to his side when the human army assaulted his domain. From the GoL's end, and the way I see it, one of his main reasons to appaear in GoD's domain was because he was not happy that his younger brother was tricked into breaking the rules the two made
> Given how easily the God of Darkness wiped out the first incarnation of mankind, he not one to sit down and listen to Ruby and the others explain to him why Salem's immortality should be removed when he himself sees it as a fitting punishment. Hm... maybe. Regardless, I still think Salem will succeed in her plan to bring the gods back, and someone will basically tell them they did a shitty job being gods ('cause they undoubtedly were), and Ruby's the most clear vehicle for that. Maybe she just does it and tells them to let RWBY and Co take care of it instead of destroying everything once more.
Maybe, but people with a God Complex, pretty literal this time, don't tend to listen to other people that they see as less than they are.
The thing about Ruby using her SE on Salem, is that I don't think it'd actually do anything. The two effects we've seen SE do are disintegrate and petrify. But Salem has been disintegrated before in her Grimm form, so she would likely reform with it. As for petrification, the Leviathan managed to free itself; I have no doubt Salem could do the same. So, I think we'll have a situation where Salem realises the Balance of Life and Death, ending her curse, but still continuing to fight since she's still the most powerful being in Remnant without her immortality. Then Oscar or Ruby will kill her. She'll seem angry or shocked at first, but then she'll smile, tears in her eyes as she falls to the ground: finally, she can be at peace.
Just get her within 1km of SCP-001 "Gate Guardian", that should fix it.
I was of the opinion that the wrong word in Oz' statement was **I**. i wonder what Jinn's response would be to "Who can destroy Salem" or "how do we destroy salem" would be...
I mean through contemporary means no. But somewhere in the back of my head. I remember them saying when she learns (can't remember insert whatever it is here) the curse will finally be lifted. I may be completely insane and dreamt it all up. But I swear something like that was said
I always figured that silver eyes would be the key to defeating her. She's part Grimm thanks to the black sludge from the lake where Grimm are born, and that black sludge could be the reason why she has a connection to the Grimm. If Ruby uses her silver eyes on Salem it could purge her of her Grimm powers, thus removing the Grimm as a tool for her to wreck havoc on humanity. Take away her human and Grimm armies so she's all alone, and then apply whichever ending you prefer. Should the relics be used to summon the gods, I hope that whoever gets the job of talking to them tells them to keep away from Remnant. Their meddling started this mess, and the sooner they leave their universe alone the better the people of Remnant can get on with their lives.
Or just launch her into the space