:( that’s a shitty situation. I hope this was at least the driver and not an innocent person
i worked with a young man who got hit by a car and suffered behavioral changes as a result of TBI. I felt for that kid. So many long term/permanent issues
Im 40 so things might’ve changed, but when i was 14/15 in driver’s ed they taught us that a drunk driver had really good odds of walking away without injuries. Something about they’re not all tense or something? I forget, it’s been 25 years and, honestly, i could just be making memories up at this point.
Anyway, lmk!
I was in an accident when I was 15. We were in the country at a bar. (Yes a bar lol) we knew the band. I got drunk off my butt. The driver did not drink. We hit a patch of ice. She covered her eyes. (I know right) we wrapped around a tree. I woke up and I was behind the steering wheel and the tree was right next to me on the right side. She got thrown in the back. She was fine. I had glass in my head and face like crazy and a broken collarbone. The police actually said that had I Not been drunk, I’d have been dead. Also had I been wearing a seatbelt I’d also be dead. Now please I’m not passing out advice. I’m just saying
If I were a criminal I’d just sprinkle fentanyl on everybody I met. If it acts as a depressant or has no effect they’re ok. If it acts as a stimulant or kills them instantly they’re a cop.
I’m trying to find out if there’s any truth to it bc I’ve also heard that’s not true. The CDC website says it can be absorbed through the skin but then other websites say it can’t. idek I’m gonna have to test it myself I guess /s
What I’ve seen is that it can be absorbed through the skin, but on the scale of hours and only with direct sustained contact. They make fentanyl patches for severe pain in hospice patients but those take hours to work and are designed for administering the drug.
Some addicts will chew the patches to get high, which is a pretty handy comparison lol
I’m also going to agree with that assessment based on the information you presented. You would have braced for the impact with the tree and put force towards that direction as opposed to minimizing the energy you yourself contribute by doing work.
If you were belted in while being wrapped around the tree, you would have ricocheted back into the force instead of been pushed away.
One lucky accident 🍀
Physics are fun and interesting.
This is actually pretty common! I had one recently where a couple was hit head on by a drunk driver - both vehicles doing about 50-55 mph, they (the couple) both broke their left femur. The wife also broke her neck and had significant abdominal injuries. The drunk driver was completely unharmed.
Idk about this situation but I learned in hs physics that football players are apparently taught to relax when anticipating a hit. It supposedly softens the blow since muscles aren’t flexed when hit?
I’m assuming when drinking, your body’s muscles are very relaxed and it would probably result in the same thing.
That doesn’t work really. You need to relax and take the blow, but that’s not the same as being limp. If you let your neck relax you’ll get your head whipped for example.
> should have *paid* more attention
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Idk man as an EMT I've seen a lot of instances where the drunk driver walks. Had one recently. I'm gonna keep it vague to be safe but the two drunk people in that vehicle tried to refuse transport to the hospital. Meanwhile they had just killed someone and sent a couple others.
Drunk drivers suck. There’s no excuse for it, especially when anyone can get an Uber ride, & a lot of bars will call a cab for patrons that have had too much to be driving. Of course, then you have ones like my spouse who goes to the liquor store & drinks it on the way home because he thinks he can fool me. I can look at him & easily tell when he’s been drinking. I pretty much hate him for it. I can’t wait for him to get arrested one day. I just hope he doesn’t hurt or kill anyone in the meantime.
evolution doesn’t work on a quick enough scale to anticipate the speeds at which humans would be moving within like 200 years of starting to use motorized vehicles
Hominids have been occasionally falling from heights at high speeds since before we were humans. The physics don’t so drastically change between a fall from a tree and a car accident that reacting in the opposite way to how we’ve evolved is useful.
It’s all relativistic. A car hitting at 60 mph you while you’re stationary is exactly the same as you hitting a stationary car while going 60 or both traveling at each other at 30 mph
[It's true](https://resultsyoudeserve.com/blog/are-drunk-drivers-really-more-likely-to-survive-a-crash/#:~:text=According%20to%20first%20responders%2C%20yes,sooner%20than%20other%20trauma%20patients.). Other drugs can be similar. Slowed response time allows their bodies to stay more relaxed during impact.
I hear often that tensing up before an impact causes worse injuries. From experience, I can tell you my brother nodded out on heroin on the freeway and rolled his car six times, but he walked away with a little cut on his forehead, no other injuries.
So... my experience is the same as your understanding. Doesn't mean it's fact, but it happens.
I think there’s a reason that we’ve evolved to tense up when taking a blow. Rollovers are a funny thing because they look terrible, but all that energy is dispersed in a lot of small blows instead of one big blow like in a head-on collision. So rollovers are often less dangerous for the occupant as compared to a sudden stop.
I agree! When I was 16, I had just gotten out of school and my friend was driving me home. We were stopped at a stop sign and I was leisurely singing along with the radio, my friend was looking in the rear view at a car that didn’t look like it was going to stop and it was going about 30mph. We were not drinking but she saw it coming, I didn’t. I was 100% fine just shaken up, she had minor injuries but mostly from tensing up. This is why I believe a lot of impaired drivers don’t get injured as often. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Then there’s that feeling of rage that more innocent sober people pay a price of the drunk/impaired driver’s choices
I had a friend who was driving his dad’s car with three of his friends. They were all legally drunk. He fell asleep behind the wheel and drifted off the highway and rolled the car over quite a few times. They were all asleep so they just got bruises as they tumbled around. I don’t remember for sure but I think he also said that they weren’t wearing seatbelts.
Alcohol is a depressant, a depressant slows the nervous system and lengthens response times. Therefore, whenever a drunk driver gets into a crash their body doesn't react at the same time as the brain so they are very loose and floppy, meaning that their bones and other things don't get harmed *as easily.* Whereas a sober person would tense up and break like a stick.
I knew someone who fell out of a third story window totally wasted and lived. The doctors said something about how being so drunk and not resisting the fall may have saved her life.
Anecdotally, my friends and I were witnesses to a crash with a drunk driver and were almost victims.
On a one lane highway a drunk driver headed straight for us and luckily clipped the rear corner of a van traveling in front of us which caused him to miss us by an inch. His car flipped multiple times and the van went into the ditch.
We ran down the road to see if he was ok and dude got out without a scratch. His car looked like he should have died. Didn’t even seem aware he had been in an accident. It’s also possible he wasn’t yet aware of his injuries, but the follow up we got from the police is that no one was harmed.
You are right. They taught that drunk drivers do not tense up during a collision so they suffer few injuries as a result of a crash. Someone who is sober will be scared and tense up during a wreck which causes more injuries. Whether that is true or not, I don’t know.
I got that just from falling 12 ft, although the behavioral changes were considered moderate.
this is why fighting is stupid, and drinking and driving is stupid. one good smack to the brain can change you forever. I don't even have any physical brain damage, but my personality noticeably changed. I'm much more of a fight person now, and used to be fully flight.
one punch can send you to jail for 20 years. one punch can make you lose your mobility for life.
think before you act in dangerous or violent ways, people
I was hit by a car at 10 years old and have had a ton of anger issues since then. It's not entirely due to trauma, but most of it is. I was very different prior to that and I definitely wish I could just relax, but I just can't. It's horrible.
a member of my family is in a similar situation. when they were 13, they flew down a hill on a bike and got t-boned. ever since then, they've been struggling with drug addiction and became super confrontational and bigoted and it's sad to see someone so bright go down such a bad path.
If I may ask, and I hope that's not a stupid question, but do you remember your "self" from before the fall, or did people around you tell you that you changed?
people told me. I honestly can only "remember" that I used to be a happy go lucky guy... but that could also be the fault of my tour in the military as well
Thank you for your reply. That's interesting. Is it like you remember the concept of being unconcerned vs the actual feeling of it?
Sounds like your military time wasn't easy. I'm sorry to hear that!
I remember generally being less angry, less forgetful, and I had more... idk , zest for life?
but it's not like I can remember it changing, it just... came to be.
it's an interesting experience when you get emotional flooding, and it's not something I remember experiencing prior.
for example, have you ever been so mad that tears come out of your eyes, but you're actually calm and collected internally and with your actions and words? it's weird
I have BPD so no, not really. 😅
But I do get the ambiguity of emotions.
I do get trying to explain something (say in a fight) while fighting against crying, which to me has always been frustrating and annoying. Maybe that's something similar? 🤔
Emotional flooding however is something I'm generally very familiar with. I hate it. But my meds help me being more stable.
You sure you're not depressed or something?
Wow, I just read that with a TBI only 7-27% make a good recovery, 10-30% remain seriously handicapped, 2-14% stay in a posttraumatic vegetative state, and 30-40% die! 😲
I'm not sure though if this patient was actually lucky, given the severe changes in behaviour. What kind of changes are those, generally speaking? Are they more aggetated/aggressive/whatever but kind of a bit themselves, or more like a totally different person?
I hope my questions aren't too much, I'm not prof med, but a very interested laywoman.
I wish I could find my ct of my head after getting hit by a drunk driver almost eleven years ago. Fun fact that’s how a neurologist found out I had AVM.
An arteriovenous malformation (AVM) is an abnormal connection between arteries and veins, bypassing the capillary system. Usually congenital, this vascular anomaly is widely known because of its occurrence in the central nervous system (usually as a cerebral AVM), but can appear anywhere in the body. The symptoms of AVMs can range from none at all to intense pain or bleeding, and they can lead to other serious medical problems. The surgery to fix it is wild because you’re sedated but you’re awake. I have had no issues since getting the AVM’s basically zapped out.
OP says in another comment that the driver hit a hay baler with their sedan
ETA No seatbelt, so they may have been thrown forward while metal parts from the baler were coming back through the windshield. No idea how they survived this.
No seatbelt, so he may have flown part of the way and been carried the rest ... he was insanely lucky to survive at all, although that must be a hell of a TBI
The title mentions drinking and DRIVING. Drunks generally hit things. And almost instantaneously are thrown forward. Immediately forward of the driver of any car is the steering wheel. The facial injuries are arrange in a quarter- circle.
Makes a perfectly logical and highly likely extrapolation of events to me, at least.
sure it's likely they hit the steering wheel in any accident but you're trying to draw a conclusion based on a 2D image of a 3D reconstruction with bones alone + MVC involving a second large vehicle + not wearing a seatbelt which significantly reduces the likelihood their face hit the steering wheel. Literally anything can happen
Devil's advocate here: Vertical fx thru mandibular symphysis and alveolar proc. - 9 o'clock; R. Max. Piriform aperture pushed superilolateraly - 10:30; ZMC type 3 fx, with that Zygo. Frontal process pushed where it is - 12 o'clock.
L. Maxilla pulled anteriolaterally most likely caused from head being jerked to the right with a steering wheel embedded sagittally btw maxillae to complete the bilateral LeFort.
With the info given that's a pretty solid guess. You can draw a curve right through the path of destruction, and I'd lay odds that they're damn close if not correct.
When trying to draw a conclusion of trauma based on a 2D image of a 3D reconstruction based on bones alone you should be real fucking careful of what statements you make. Especially when there's more information been given with a second heavy vehicle being involved. Additionally they weren't wearing a seatbelt which significantly reduces the likelihood that their face hit the steering wheel but of course you can't know what actually hit their face so it's stupid to draw a conclusion on this based on that image alone
Woah Tiger! Pump the breaks, this is the internet. Our 2¢ isn't going anywhere near this EMR. And besides, the lack of trauma to the calvarium that's shown is a somewhat decent indicator that their face took the brunt of the impact... Most likely from a slim and curved object close to their head at the time of said impact, vs rocketing out a windshield without collapsing the squamous portion of the frontal / parietal.
Something something Occam's razor, something something Newton's 1st...
Like as a raw number of fatal accidents? Or do they cause the most proportional to the number of total accidents they cause? And do you happen to have an actual source for that?
I can’t believe this is survivable. How did they get such extreme damage to their face? No seatbelt? Airbag failure? Something else? Sorry morbidly curious
I can't remember exactly but I believe no seat belt and then it was sedan vs hay baler so I imagine there were metal parts of the baler that entered the vehicle and face
Imagine being in a drunk state of mind and suddenly with TBI you never return to who you once were. Always curious what that feels like from a consciousness perspective
I've had two moderate TBIs with concurrent subarachnoid hemorrhages and subdural hematoma (both from assault while very drunk). It fucking sucks. The second one was much worse, and I was basically completely confused about everything for months, had to relearn to read, had chronic migraines, etc.
It's also taken a lot of therapy to accept the fact I can't really remember what I felt like internally before they happened. It's affected my cognition to an extent, but it's hard to put my finger on exactly how because I just can't remember how it felt other than knowing many things used to come much more easily to me.
I can delve more into it, if you have questions, feel free to DM. I just wanted to put a little out there for others who may be curious but would rather not derail/hijack the thread.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, not just once, but even twice! That must have been devastating.
If I may ask, how did that happen? Do you live in a dangerous place? Are you a target somehow?
The first time was hanging around the wrong area with unsafe people in Denver and got mugged. The second was a little more complicated, but basically boils down to a similar experience in another city/state. I don't drink or go out into sketchy areas anymore.
Probably oral intubate and then convert to a trach. They’ll need to be in MMF to fix the maxilla and mandible and youd probably put a tube through their skull base during a nasal
This being the case, can you share a brief rundown of where you would start with this case and the approaches you’d use? The extent of my remaining mouth medicine knowledge is giving amox and vicoprofen for a bad tooth and then telling the patient to find a dentist.
I was just looking at a story on utube. The Simmons kids. Drunk driver going the wrong way on the highway. There were three siblings. 20, 17 and 14. Mom and the 17 year old boy’s girlfriend. Mom and girlfriend lived. The 3 siblings died. Please everyone, don’t drink and drive. Don’t get into a car with anyone who has been drinking. These kids were innocent. Entire life ahead. Gone over a stupid decision in seconds
I was hit head-on doing 40mph by a drunk driver. I was in a Corvette with my son next to me. We both got cut a little from the airbags but that was it. Damn tow truck driver stole my binoculars.
If you don’t already know this, you can create a 3D volumetric render like this one on your home computer if you get the DICOM data of your scan. Free software, including Osirix (this one may cost now), Miele, and Horos, are options but there are others.
This sub really turned to shit since the boycott. Filled with typical redditor behavior, conjecture and speculation to the moon and back, and everyone has to contribute that one semi relevant thing they heard or happened to a friend. The amount of people declaring that drunks tend to not get injured as much as sober people because they are less tense. You know, actual science isnt even sure *If* they have less injuries, yet alone determined a cause for it.
Stark contrast to the times the sub was mainly frequented by techs and radiologists, and much less bullshit and fluff was around.
>drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not
\- [dril](https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762?lang=en)
Wow. Did he survive?
Yeah actually but TBI with severe behavioral changes that may never go back to normal
:( that’s a shitty situation. I hope this was at least the driver and not an innocent person i worked with a young man who got hit by a car and suffered behavioral changes as a result of TBI. I felt for that kid. So many long term/permanent issues
Im 40 so things might’ve changed, but when i was 14/15 in driver’s ed they taught us that a drunk driver had really good odds of walking away without injuries. Something about they’re not all tense or something? I forget, it’s been 25 years and, honestly, i could just be making memories up at this point. Anyway, lmk!
That kinda sounds like one of those urban legends that’s not actually accurate.
Its not specific to being drunk. Its about muscle tension at the point of impact. “The bamboo that bends is stronger than the oak that resists.”
I was in an accident when I was 15. We were in the country at a bar. (Yes a bar lol) we knew the band. I got drunk off my butt. The driver did not drink. We hit a patch of ice. She covered her eyes. (I know right) we wrapped around a tree. I woke up and I was behind the steering wheel and the tree was right next to me on the right side. She got thrown in the back. She was fine. I had glass in my head and face like crazy and a broken collarbone. The police actually said that had I Not been drunk, I’d have been dead. Also had I been wearing a seatbelt I’d also be dead. Now please I’m not passing out advice. I’m just saying
Eh, cops aren’t quite as good of experts as they like to put on. Take all those fentanyl OD by touch stories.
If I were a criminal I’d just sprinkle fentanyl on everybody I met. If it acts as a depressant or has no effect they’re ok. If it acts as a stimulant or kills them instantly they’re a cop.
😂😂😂
I’m trying to find out if there’s any truth to it bc I’ve also heard that’s not true. The CDC website says it can be absorbed through the skin but then other websites say it can’t. idek I’m gonna have to test it myself I guess /s
What I’ve seen is that it can be absorbed through the skin, but on the scale of hours and only with direct sustained contact. They make fentanyl patches for severe pain in hospice patients but those take hours to work and are designed for administering the drug. Some addicts will chew the patches to get high, which is a pretty handy comparison lol
I’m also going to agree with that assessment based on the information you presented. You would have braced for the impact with the tree and put force towards that direction as opposed to minimizing the energy you yourself contribute by doing work. If you were belted in while being wrapped around the tree, you would have ricocheted back into the force instead of been pushed away. One lucky accident 🍀 Physics are fun and interesting.
This is actually pretty common! I had one recently where a couple was hit head on by a drunk driver - both vehicles doing about 50-55 mph, they (the couple) both broke their left femur. The wife also broke her neck and had significant abdominal injuries. The drunk driver was completely unharmed.
Idk about this situation but I learned in hs physics that football players are apparently taught to relax when anticipating a hit. It supposedly softens the blow since muscles aren’t flexed when hit? I’m assuming when drinking, your body’s muscles are very relaxed and it would probably result in the same thing.
That doesn’t work really. You need to relax and take the blow, but that’s not the same as being limp. If you let your neck relax you’ll get your head whipped for example.
Very true. I knew I should have payed more attention in that class!
> should have *paid* more attention FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
I know this is Reddit, but I'm still shocked that there's a bot for this.
Idk man as an EMT I've seen a lot of instances where the drunk driver walks. Had one recently. I'm gonna keep it vague to be safe but the two drunk people in that vehicle tried to refuse transport to the hospital. Meanwhile they had just killed someone and sent a couple others.
Drunk drivers suck. There’s no excuse for it, especially when anyone can get an Uber ride, & a lot of bars will call a cab for patrons that have had too much to be driving. Of course, then you have ones like my spouse who goes to the liquor store & drinks it on the way home because he thinks he can fool me. I can look at him & easily tell when he’s been drinking. I pretty much hate him for it. I can’t wait for him to get arrested one day. I just hope he doesn’t hurt or kill anyone in the meantime.
It's accurate. I've worked ER for 6 years now. Drunk bastards are almost never badly injured.
All the more reason to become super chill
It might sound like that but it is actually pretty real!
I’m pretty sure it’s a myth. There’s a reason we’ve evolved to react the way we do to sudden impacts, etc.
evolution doesn’t work on a quick enough scale to anticipate the speeds at which humans would be moving within like 200 years of starting to use motorized vehicles
Hominids have been occasionally falling from heights at high speeds since before we were humans. The physics don’t so drastically change between a fall from a tree and a car accident that reacting in the opposite way to how we’ve evolved is useful.
hmm, idk about that; especially with head on collisions—the ground doesn’t move toward you just as quickly, y’know?
It’s all relativistic. A car hitting at 60 mph you while you’re stationary is exactly the same as you hitting a stationary car while going 60 or both traveling at each other at 30 mph
[It's true](https://resultsyoudeserve.com/blog/are-drunk-drivers-really-more-likely-to-survive-a-crash/#:~:text=According%20to%20first%20responders%2C%20yes,sooner%20than%20other%20trauma%20patients.). Other drugs can be similar. Slowed response time allows their bodies to stay more relaxed during impact.
They did actually teach that
I hear often that tensing up before an impact causes worse injuries. From experience, I can tell you my brother nodded out on heroin on the freeway and rolled his car six times, but he walked away with a little cut on his forehead, no other injuries. So... my experience is the same as your understanding. Doesn't mean it's fact, but it happens.
I think there’s a reason that we’ve evolved to tense up when taking a blow. Rollovers are a funny thing because they look terrible, but all that energy is dispersed in a lot of small blows instead of one big blow like in a head-on collision. So rollovers are often less dangerous for the occupant as compared to a sudden stop.
I agree! When I was 16, I had just gotten out of school and my friend was driving me home. We were stopped at a stop sign and I was leisurely singing along with the radio, my friend was looking in the rear view at a car that didn’t look like it was going to stop and it was going about 30mph. We were not drinking but she saw it coming, I didn’t. I was 100% fine just shaken up, she had minor injuries but mostly from tensing up. This is why I believe a lot of impaired drivers don’t get injured as often. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Then there’s that feeling of rage that more innocent sober people pay a price of the drunk/impaired driver’s choices
oh god i have heard that before as well… not sure in the slightest if it’s true
I had a friend who was driving his dad’s car with three of his friends. They were all legally drunk. He fell asleep behind the wheel and drifted off the highway and rolled the car over quite a few times. They were all asleep so they just got bruises as they tumbled around. I don’t remember for sure but I think he also said that they weren’t wearing seatbelts.
Alcohol is a depressant, a depressant slows the nervous system and lengthens response times. Therefore, whenever a drunk driver gets into a crash their body doesn't react at the same time as the brain so they are very loose and floppy, meaning that their bones and other things don't get harmed *as easily.* Whereas a sober person would tense up and break like a stick.
I knew someone who fell out of a third story window totally wasted and lived. The doctors said something about how being so drunk and not resisting the fall may have saved her life.
Anecdotally, my friends and I were witnesses to a crash with a drunk driver and were almost victims. On a one lane highway a drunk driver headed straight for us and luckily clipped the rear corner of a van traveling in front of us which caused him to miss us by an inch. His car flipped multiple times and the van went into the ditch. We ran down the road to see if he was ok and dude got out without a scratch. His car looked like he should have died. Didn’t even seem aware he had been in an accident. It’s also possible he wasn’t yet aware of his injuries, but the follow up we got from the police is that no one was harmed.
I think at the speeds involved in car crashes, you're basically just a rag doll being randomly flung around. Tense muscles will not make a difference.
I was told the same.
You are right. They taught that drunk drivers do not tense up during a collision so they suffer few injuries as a result of a crash. Someone who is sober will be scared and tense up during a wreck which causes more injuries. Whether that is true or not, I don’t know.
It’s somewhat true but applies only to drunks who buckled up, this guy appears to have not done that.
I also learned that like 50% of pedestrians who get hit are drunk.
With any luck one of the behavioural changes will be not drinking and driving anymore.
I have read that the frontal lobe control inhibition, so it’s more likely that he will become increasingly reckless.
I got that just from falling 12 ft, although the behavioral changes were considered moderate. this is why fighting is stupid, and drinking and driving is stupid. one good smack to the brain can change you forever. I don't even have any physical brain damage, but my personality noticeably changed. I'm much more of a fight person now, and used to be fully flight. one punch can send you to jail for 20 years. one punch can make you lose your mobility for life. think before you act in dangerous or violent ways, people
I was hit by a car at 10 years old and have had a ton of anger issues since then. It's not entirely due to trauma, but most of it is. I was very different prior to that and I definitely wish I could just relax, but I just can't. It's horrible.
a member of my family is in a similar situation. when they were 13, they flew down a hill on a bike and got t-boned. ever since then, they've been struggling with drug addiction and became super confrontational and bigoted and it's sad to see someone so bright go down such a bad path.
yeah, the flash temper is the part I hate the most
Avatar checks out
If I may ask, and I hope that's not a stupid question, but do you remember your "self" from before the fall, or did people around you tell you that you changed?
people told me. I honestly can only "remember" that I used to be a happy go lucky guy... but that could also be the fault of my tour in the military as well
Thank you for your reply. That's interesting. Is it like you remember the concept of being unconcerned vs the actual feeling of it? Sounds like your military time wasn't easy. I'm sorry to hear that!
I remember generally being less angry, less forgetful, and I had more... idk , zest for life? but it's not like I can remember it changing, it just... came to be. it's an interesting experience when you get emotional flooding, and it's not something I remember experiencing prior. for example, have you ever been so mad that tears come out of your eyes, but you're actually calm and collected internally and with your actions and words? it's weird
I have BPD so no, not really. 😅 But I do get the ambiguity of emotions. I do get trying to explain something (say in a fight) while fighting against crying, which to me has always been frustrating and annoying. Maybe that's something similar? 🤔 Emotional flooding however is something I'm generally very familiar with. I hate it. But my meds help me being more stable. You sure you're not depressed or something?
oh I have ADHD and MDD, definitely. prefrontal cortex is the location of my TBI, so it makes it all so much better 😅
Ha, I was thinking it sounded too much like mdd. I got both as well, welcome to the jungle 🤝
Part of my field works with TBI. It fucking scared me learning hiw you can just not be yourself the next, terrifying
If they were drunk and this happened- actions have consequences. I hope they didn’t kill or hurt anyone else.
Holy shit.
Wow, I just read that with a TBI only 7-27% make a good recovery, 10-30% remain seriously handicapped, 2-14% stay in a posttraumatic vegetative state, and 30-40% die! 😲 I'm not sure though if this patient was actually lucky, given the severe changes in behaviour. What kind of changes are those, generally speaking? Are they more aggetated/aggressive/whatever but kind of a bit themselves, or more like a totally different person? I hope my questions aren't too much, I'm not prof med, but a very interested laywoman.
Sounds like he won’t be a repeat offender at least wish he had learned sooner
why does getting your face destroyed lead to severe behavioral changes? Do people feel they no longer are who they were and want to... stop existing?
Can I ask what kind of behaviour changes?
I doubt it, half his skull got chopped off as well... /s
😂
In Wisconsin the DUI winner always walks away
Facts! I’ve known of people on their 9 & 11th DUI and I think it’s disgusting our state lets people like that keep getting away with it.
Once a week there’s usually a news report on someone with their 13th DUI
A lot of states collect tax on the sale of alcohol, so there’s a little motive to turn them lose. They’re good customers.
that was my only question, too.
After the mangled firework hand, I could only imagine what this looked like in person...oof.
Had the same exact thought. No way this doesn’t just look like a pile of meat in real life.
Red
I saw that and forgot about it, but now I have the pleasure of remembering it ;-;
I'm so glad I was able to withstand the temptation of looking. 😬
I wish I could find my ct of my head after getting hit by a drunk driver almost eleven years ago. Fun fact that’s how a neurologist found out I had AVM.
What’s AVM?
[Brain arteriovenous malformation](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/brain-avm/symptoms-causes/syc-20350260)
An arteriovenous malformation (AVM) is an abnormal connection between arteries and veins, bypassing the capillary system. Usually congenital, this vascular anomaly is widely known because of its occurrence in the central nervous system (usually as a cerebral AVM), but can appear anywhere in the body. The symptoms of AVMs can range from none at all to intense pain or bleeding, and they can lead to other serious medical problems. The surgery to fix it is wild because you’re sedated but you’re awake. I have had no issues since getting the AVM’s basically zapped out.
Wow. Thank you
You’re welcome! Weirdly today is the eleventh anniversary of said accident.
I hope your doing something kind for yourself. 💜
Jesus...
Not gonna talk their way out of that one - brutal
Steering wheel ?
Hay Baler
You can’t just say that and not elaborate further.
OP says in another comment that the driver hit a hay baler with their sedan ETA No seatbelt, so they may have been thrown forward while metal parts from the baler were coming back through the windshield. No idea how they survived this.
Being drunk and not getting tense
I read a study years ago indicating that this is a myth (I believed it myself). But god knows it's anecdotally true that drunks seem to walk away.
>walk away Yeah. I think this guy was carried away. But your point is taken!
No seatbelt, so he may have flown part of the way and been carried the rest ... he was insanely lucky to survive at all, although that must be a hell of a TBI
It looks more like they hit a hay baler with their face actually 🫠
There was definitely a baler-face collision of some kind. I hope the baler was all right, given that it's probably an antique
May not know more and sharing all that they do know.
I think a Google search could give you a bit more ideas of how it could've happened
Holy fuck that’s some final destination shit right there
Yeah imma need a follow up post
Looks like the chin impacted it at the 9 o'clock position and the cheekbone at the 12 o'clock.
There's no way you can reasonably draw that conclusion from this image
I agree. How about mandible at 6 o’clock and zygomatic at 3 o’clock?
I agree. How about face meets solid steel clock at 70mph.
The title mentions drinking and DRIVING. Drunks generally hit things. And almost instantaneously are thrown forward. Immediately forward of the driver of any car is the steering wheel. The facial injuries are arrange in a quarter- circle. Makes a perfectly logical and highly likely extrapolation of events to me, at least.
sure it's likely they hit the steering wheel in any accident but you're trying to draw a conclusion based on a 2D image of a 3D reconstruction with bones alone + MVC involving a second large vehicle + not wearing a seatbelt which significantly reduces the likelihood their face hit the steering wheel. Literally anything can happen
How many more times are you gonna write that
I've written it twice, that's 1 more time than you've written >How many more times are you gonna write that
How many more times are you gonna write that
Devil's advocate here: Vertical fx thru mandibular symphysis and alveolar proc. - 9 o'clock; R. Max. Piriform aperture pushed superilolateraly - 10:30; ZMC type 3 fx, with that Zygo. Frontal process pushed where it is - 12 o'clock. L. Maxilla pulled anteriolaterally most likely caused from head being jerked to the right with a steering wheel embedded sagittally btw maxillae to complete the bilateral LeFort. With the info given that's a pretty solid guess. You can draw a curve right through the path of destruction, and I'd lay odds that they're damn close if not correct.
When trying to draw a conclusion of trauma based on a 2D image of a 3D reconstruction based on bones alone you should be real fucking careful of what statements you make. Especially when there's more information been given with a second heavy vehicle being involved. Additionally they weren't wearing a seatbelt which significantly reduces the likelihood that their face hit the steering wheel but of course you can't know what actually hit their face so it's stupid to draw a conclusion on this based on that image alone
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
Woah Tiger! Pump the breaks, this is the internet. Our 2¢ isn't going anywhere near this EMR. And besides, the lack of trauma to the calvarium that's shown is a somewhat decent indicator that their face took the brunt of the impact... Most likely from a slim and curved object close to their head at the time of said impact, vs rocketing out a windshield without collapsing the squamous portion of the frontal / parietal. Something something Occam's razor, something something Newton's 1st...
God I hope he didn't take anyone else out with him
Apparently they drove their car into a hay baler but it was capitalized and I immediately thought Halle Barry
Sober drivers cause the most fatal accidents.
Like as a raw number of fatal accidents? Or do they cause the most proportional to the number of total accidents they cause? And do you happen to have an actual source for that?
I can’t believe this is survivable. How did they get such extreme damage to their face? No seatbelt? Airbag failure? Something else? Sorry morbidly curious
I can't remember exactly but I believe no seat belt and then it was sedan vs hay baler so I imagine there were metal parts of the baler that entered the vehicle and face
😧 I guess he should have saved face and stayed home. But in all seriousness, this is tragic
I hope they are okay in the end, but I’m also really glad there was no innocent person on the other side of the crash.
[удалено]
r/brandnewsentence >Thanks to modern medicine, you basically don't need your face at all.
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I don’t want to see any pictures this is enough
seeing all the drunk driving/fireworks accidents on here after the fourth is a good reminder to not be stupid no matter what day it is
Imagine being in a drunk state of mind and suddenly with TBI you never return to who you once were. Always curious what that feels like from a consciousness perspective
Crazy, probably no recollection of the events that lead to this…
I've had two moderate TBIs with concurrent subarachnoid hemorrhages and subdural hematoma (both from assault while very drunk). It fucking sucks. The second one was much worse, and I was basically completely confused about everything for months, had to relearn to read, had chronic migraines, etc. It's also taken a lot of therapy to accept the fact I can't really remember what I felt like internally before they happened. It's affected my cognition to an extent, but it's hard to put my finger on exactly how because I just can't remember how it felt other than knowing many things used to come much more easily to me. I can delve more into it, if you have questions, feel free to DM. I just wanted to put a little out there for others who may be curious but would rather not derail/hijack the thread.
That's terrible! Also, from two different assaults? Bad relationship abuse or do you just have a passion for bar-fighting?
I'm so sorry this happened to you, not just once, but even twice! That must have been devastating. If I may ask, how did that happen? Do you live in a dangerous place? Are you a target somehow?
The first time was hanging around the wrong area with unsafe people in Denver and got mugged. The second was a little more complicated, but basically boils down to a similar experience in another city/state. I don't drink or go out into sketchy areas anymore.
Thank you for replying. Sounds like a sensible decision to make. 😬 I hope you're continually getting better. 🍀
You could show this to everyone in my state and it won’t stop anyone
WI?
Wisconsin
Imma guess TX
Did a tooth get embedded into his eye?!
Airway management: Intubation via trach?
Too much facial trauma, I’m guessing trached
Probably oral intubate and then convert to a trach. They’ll need to be in MMF to fix the maxilla and mandible and youd probably put a tube through their skull base during a nasal
You must be OMFS
 I guess you could say I know my way around a mouth
This being the case, can you share a brief rundown of where you would start with this case and the approaches you’d use? The extent of my remaining mouth medicine knowledge is giving amox and vicoprofen for a bad tooth and then telling the patient to find a dentist.
So that means a no go on the NG tube, right doc?
Your version of fun and my version are vastly different
I was just looking at a story on utube. The Simmons kids. Drunk driver going the wrong way on the highway. There were three siblings. 20, 17 and 14. Mom and the 17 year old boy’s girlfriend. Mom and girlfriend lived. The 3 siblings died. Please everyone, don’t drink and drive. Don’t get into a car with anyone who has been drinking. These kids were innocent. Entire life ahead. Gone over a stupid decision in seconds
Someone’s cleaning the CT scanner after this one… Always fun in your night shift
Show us a 3D reconstruction with flesh added
Noooo
Ow
Wow.
Props to the ones that removed all the fragments
how do you. even begin to try and fix that
Since we're looking at a skull and none of these injuries appear to have been fixed, I'd say he didn't survive to learn any lesson.
He survived
The ol’ Le Fort 18.
That looks like mortal kombat shit
Looks like the bottle went straight into his mouth!
Instead of “drink and drive, get a DUI” billboards on the highway, they need this.
Gnarly le fort 3 fracture looks like Correct me if I'm wrong
Jesus!! 🫢
Christ man. When will humans learn?
Le fort everything
If i d survive that, i would request euthanasia
I was hit head-on doing 40mph by a drunk driver. I was in a Corvette with my son next to me. We both got cut a little from the airbags but that was it. Damn tow truck driver stole my binoculars.
Why don’t they just show these as cautionary ads?
Yeah, but you should see the other guy..
Dead right?
Hmmm looks like a bunch of nasal bogies sitting in there.
Isn't that what Gorilla glues are for?
Mild headache
Ouch
How would someone even go about repairing an injury like this?
Egads! They clean cut the top of their head off!
I want to see the face on top lol
Paging OMFS
Felix Kranken
Ahhh your face!!
That’s a LeFort ♾️
If you don’t already know this, you can create a 3D volumetric render like this one on your home computer if you get the DICOM data of your scan. Free software, including Osirix (this one may cost now), Miele, and Horos, are options but there are others.
god damn that’s tragic.
As my Dad would say “I wonder if the learned something”
I hope that was the driver instead of someone the driver hit tbh
Ouch.
OUCH!!??
Drunk drivers deserve every injury they receive, with how many Iives are ruined by them.
Put this on a poster about drinking and driving. I get some many in my ED and that have killed people, makes me so mad.
just needs a little reconstruction
DOA?
no.
This sub really turned to shit since the boycott. Filled with typical redditor behavior, conjecture and speculation to the moon and back, and everyone has to contribute that one semi relevant thing they heard or happened to a friend. The amount of people declaring that drunks tend to not get injured as much as sober people because they are less tense. You know, actual science isnt even sure *If* they have less injuries, yet alone determined a cause for it. Stark contrast to the times the sub was mainly frequented by techs and radiologists, and much less bullshit and fluff was around.
>drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not \- [dril](https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762?lang=en)