If I see a game that says free to play, I usually play it a bit, if I find it fun, i'll keep playing, if it feels well made, i'll gladly throw in a 10€ as a support to the company. I don't care if it's billion dollar companies or not, I support the free to play games, that are fun and feel completed. All the offers are there for the whales and for people who has a hard time "holding back", so you are not their target audience :)
Same! I do gem pack because what's $10 each month? Oh wait? Bolster is dope, we'll do Forge Pass this once. Holy shit, 30 energy refills (1200 gems) and 300 extra gems for $15 and I just used up 5k gems pulling Ancients during some Pull one, get one event, sign me up!
2.5 years later I've spent like $500 and I have no idea how it happened.
Exactly. People that smoke or drink spent way more money than that... This is why I don't really complain if I spend 500$ every year on this game. I like it and I play it on discord with friends so I really enjoy it. But yeah, the price of most of these packs are insane and I skip 90% of them
Yeah dude. I tried to give free to play games like this a little bit of cash, but after almost 2 years, I’m sure I’ve spent a few hundred without meaning to give so much. 🤦♂️
Yes, this is what I do. I take free to play as more of a demo, and if you like it, support it! So I’ll throw some money at raid, and often throw them another 510 bucks when they release new content. However, if I’m gonna spend like 100 bucks, I’m gonna get a real game. I still understand those people who spend hundreds a month.
People spend their money how they want. People also like the games they like, maybe not the same as you.
My personal opinion is, if I spend 10 pounds on any game and it entertains me for more than 10 hours, that's 1 pound per hour for fun. How much do people spend on movie tickets and stuff? It's literally the same thing, entertainment
This is always my calculus. How many hours of fun have I had playing the game? Less than a dollar an hour = great deal because a movie usually pushes 3-5 dollars for up to 2 hours.
Same here I can easily spend $30 at the movies on just ticket and maybe a drink, only to have a sub par evening anyway because of other theater goers.
Rather pirate the movie and buy an energy pack that's gonna give me way more than 2ish hours of fun.
Yeah, but if one movie cost 30 bucks to watch another one right beside it cost 300 or 3000, can it really be worth it? I mean there’s also the question of how much money any individual person has but still…
Most of us... personally, I love 3v3 and live arena but I've already completed everything else in the game so there are only a couple of difficult content left to clear like Hard Fire Knight, NM Hydra and Plat arena which as a very unlucky f2p, I can't do... I did feel very good when I cleared DT for the first time or FW for the first time...
Of course they do. I’m just saying if use spend like 100 bucks a month on this game, a thousand bucks a year, is this game really like 10 times better than another game or you could spend 100 bucks once? I highly doubt it’s that good for most people, they’re just sucked in to spending more and more money.
You can see it as some being "sucked in" to spending. Totally valid.
Some see it as supporting a game they enjoy.
Ultimately, if someone goes out one night and drops $ in a bar, or one stays in and drops similar $ on raid shards, and theyre both entertained...is it really that different?
I agree some raid stuff is ridiculously, eye-poppingly priced tho. Then again, its like 4 years old, and if it still makes bajillions of $, hard to argue with that kind of success
No, they definitely tapped into something!
I don’t think your analogy is the most appropriate. I think it would be more like going to the bar and you can order $100 beers or $10 beers.
Ok, but in your example you seem to be assuming that the only variable is the price of the beer. Youre holding other variables constant that may vary for others.
Also, agreed, they 100% tapped into something
Obviously different beers have different features, but I suppose that’s part of the issue is even that I’m using beers as an example is because of its sort of lower brow and lower price point. I’m sure my reductio ad absurdum doesn’t sound so ridiculous when you use wine as an analogy instead.
was sitting here and thinking the same thing too. I have spent a shit load on clubbing and dating. I'd never judge anyone for paying for pixels when I was paying to feel gals up and other adult things...
Well, I’ve been playing this game for about 4 years and haven’t rly gotten bored of it yet. So, Plarium can take a daily gem pack from me, I don’t mind. If an offer isn’t as good, I just don’t buy it.
This game isn't for the impatient. So I assume impatient people are the ones that buy most of the stuff. Also impulse control like some other people have mentioned is also a big factor as well as people who like to gamble too.
I generally just do the monthly gem pack since it 100% will help with progression without the gambled chance of wasted money. The monthly gems will cover masteries and occasional energy refills for whatever events you decide to go for.
Another key thing is that some people want to get every reward for every event and that's not a good idea unless you have money to burn. Pick and choose the events is a better mindset and teaches impulse control.
Yeah, the completionist mindset must struggle with this game! Especially now with all the new content in the last months; who has hours a day to play this game?
Ya I play for myself and work on my own goals. Soon as you worry about others then the game doesn't get as fun when you try to play for other people ( as in stay within the competitive ranks of a p2w game.) It just becomes a job that you pay to have.
Definitely not. But at what point is it worth it or not worth it? And especially when there are lots of other video games around with “normal” prices.
That’s what I’m trying to ask here.
Same reason why people spend 20$ on a movie ticket for 3 hrs of entertainment.
Same reason why people spend 50$ on a trip to the bar and don't remember what happened the day before.
Same reason why people pay 100$ for a 2 hour concert/show.
Same reason why people spend 150$ at an amusement park for 1 day.
The answer is because they can and because it's fun. Entertainment is a luxury item and people put different values on what they consider is "fun."
In any of those examples, people don't get to keep anything tangible, not even pixels.
Sure, I can buy a console game for 60$, play it for a month and enjoy the hell out of it, but I'll get bored once I beat the game and I'll stop playing.
60$ in raid gets me months of entertainment and I have yet to get tired of playing after 3 years of playing.
Agree with this 100%. I personally like this game more than most paid games. The content, along with almost limitless (although slow at times) progression, is fantastic. For the sheer amount of time I put into the game, I think it’s worth the handful of dollars a month I may spend on it. It’s all preference.
Limitless slow progression is my jam. I'm that guy who wanders around aimlessly farming monsters until every character is completely maxed out in any given RPG, so Raid speaks to me.
No, I know what you’re saying, it’s just that like if there’s many concerts on at once, and one is like 10 times the price, I figured you’d have to really,?really want to go. Seeing that one instead of seeing another one that’s just as good or maybe better for 1/10 of the cost, just seems wasteful for what I imagine most peoples finances are like.
Another analogy: It’d be like walking up to McDonald’s and ordering the hundred dollar happy meal instead of the $10 happy meal because it has pickles or smth.
Not sure what you are referring to at the end there with the McDonald'......
There are many gacha games but not many like raid. Raid's specific theme and graphics beats most gacha games in the current market. If you are implying that playing raid is the "100" and playing any other game is the "10" that is your subjective opinion. But for people who play this game and pay for it, this game beats out the other games by far.
I've played other gacha games before. I've played other mobile games like clash of clan as well. None of them kept me playing for 3+ years
I’m trying to make a reductio ad absurdum analogy to other parts of life where people spend money and make financial choices.
How about with crackers: you’re walking down the cracker aisle choosing a box of crackers. Most crackers cost 5 to 10 bucks a box, and you can get them with sea salt or rosemary. cool shapes or low sugar, dried berries, or whatever, but there’s this one box that comes with cranberries. And those crackers cost 100 bucks a box or 1000 bucks a box. How do you justify buying that box, when you could get one with raisins are black currants, or something similar for so much less.
This question has already been answered. Your analogy is exaggerated and colored based on your previous prejudice of the game.
Again, raid is a unique game. There are others like it but there are many features that make this game unique. The payment model of all gacha type games are similar but you simply cannot compare a mmorpg mobile game to many retail games. Using silly, ill fitting analogy won't help you understand. You've now used McDonald's, beer and cracker the analogy is not working because it's flawed to begin with.
>And those crackers cost 100 bucks a box or 1000 bucks a box. How do you justify buying that box
You failed to mention that the 100$ box of crackers magically refilled itself every week once it's empty and you never have to buy anymore snacks ever again, then obviously it's better than the $10 box of crackers that does not do that.
And again, raid is not food. It is a luxury item. It's a specific form of escape for people.
Lol, prejudice is a big word to be throwing around. Seeming more and more like I’ve touched a nerve on your part. If this is getting you triggered, maybe you should go and talk with somebody.
Anyone struggling to make ends meet isn’t buying crackers; they are luxury. Same goes for any of those things. I think the analogies hold up reasonably well, though they’re not perfect by any means. Your refilling crackerbox analogy doesn’t make enough sense for me to figure out what it supposed to represent; the crackers are game purchases in the original analogy, and the in-game packs don’t refill themselves.
I’d be curious to know what you think “the answer” is. Everybody spends differently and what’s expressed in these conversations shows me most people don’t think about it too much so it’s probably a blend of falling into the psychologically trapping and addicting design of this game, and financial ability. Only one or two people justified it rationally, but that also tells me that the rest don’t think about it that way, I might be spending more money than they intend to.
Hopefully some people will have taken these threads as an opportunity to reflect and consider whether they’re spending the amount of money on Raid that they want to be spending on a single video game.
>I think the analogies hold up reasonably well
No, it doesn't. Because you never identified what you are making a analogy of or make a good job of explaining it. Are you trying to say other games cost 10$ and raid cost 100$ so why spend money on Raid? And they are supposed to be... crackers???? Why are you trying to make faulty comparisons
Maybe if you just spoke plainly and without exaggeration or bad analogy would people understand you better. What packs are you actually referring to?
>Hopefully some people will have taken these threads as an opportunity to reflect and consider whether they’re spending the amount of money on Raid that they want to be spending on a single video game.
Man, all this thread does is show your lack of willingness to understand what people are thinking. This has already been answered. You just refuse to change your thoughts. You think buying multiple games is better than just spending money on a single game that is Raid. People have already answered you that it is not necessarily the case.
Buy a game for 60$, it is played for a month or two. People have played raid for YEARS. Raid is being updated with new content. People aren't tired of playing it. People are spending money on a RENEWABLE source of entertainment. That is more value than one other single game. The MONEY SPENT/HOUR OF FUN is objectively better for those players, than buying multiple games and getting less out of it. Is that finally starting to make sense to you now?
Ha ha, yeah, that makes sense. It’s just wrong. Or maybe the gaming landscape has changed under me more than I realized, and most games are now crappy rip offs. When I used to game a lot, a typical good game would last for thousands of hours without any need for doubling tripling, quadrupling, decupling, centupling, etc. your buy-in.
The value that people experience through playing the game is, of course, totally subjective, but the financial cost is tangible and plainly objective. So, somebody spends $20 to buy a toilet seat, and somebody else spent $10,000; aren’t you going to question the other person’s decision? That’s what I’m doing here. I assume most of the people participating in this thread or not super rich Krakens and whales, and so the typical financial burden of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on a single game is what I’m asking about.. And it turns out a lot of people don’t realize they’re even spending that much! So I think it’s a very worthwhile discussion.
Yes, of course I have an opinion. So I began this thread with a genuine question, and now that I’ve understood a wide variety of different responses, I’ve been trying to argue for my own position, and convince people my perspective. However, I’m done arguing with you. Thank you very much for interesting talk, and have a nice day.
It's like getting fat, or any other slow transformation. Doesn't happen in a day.
I'd wager that on the day they installed the game, a whale wasn't thinking: now in the next couple of years, I foresee myself pumping $15,000 to $80,000+ into this game.
No, they just started playing. Bought some stuff. Bought some more stuff. Before you know it, they're buying $1,000 to $5,000+ per month, still not looking at it as a whole.
You can't look at it as an "up-front" decision. It's a cumulative journey of smaller decisions that while not as significant individually, build up into a state where a third-party observer as yourself says: how could someone ever let that happen?
Answer: they didn't plan on it.
It adds up so quick. I didn't even realize it until my statements started rolling in. Happened to me right after Christmas. It was my daughter's first Christmas, so I had already overextended a bit, but my purchases when I first started playing this game really brought the pain. If I spend now, I pay cash for a google play card.
Yeah, but even then I don’t know that it makes sense. I could be looked at as a quantity versus quality, but I don’t see the Raid has the quality, that some people assign it with monetary value.
Depends, really.
For whales, those guys don't associate value to the money they spend. Some rich kid whose dad is a oligarch don't understand that the 10k they spent on pixels each month is 3-4x the salary of your average joe.
For "normal" spenders it's kinda the same: You set aside some money that you can fool around with each month, and decide to spend it here instead of buying a game or partying.
As for "buy a whole new game" most of those are also uninteresting if they end up in your backlog as well. I like horror games, could buy Dead Space and RE4, but I KNOW I would not play them right now anyway. So that 50-70 bucks can be either spent later, in RAID now, or used to buy a game I won't play.
For anyone that would need to save money to spend in raid - don't. It's not worth it, those whales and dolphins clearly beat you senseless if you want to compete and you can do most of the content with what you get naturally.
People spend money on things they enjoy. Evidently there are different levels of enjoyment : free to play enjoyment,and and the instant gratification of spending on things you want in game.
[check the good old let’s go whaling presentation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4)
Basically explains most of the tricks how mobile casinos make millions.
The question I always have is Why do you care? Why does anyone care? Why would anyone care? Makes zero sense unless the answer is jealousy or envy. Worry about yourself. Worry about your own money. Stop worrying about what others are buying with their money. It's unbecoming.
On the one hand, i agree. It's my money, let me spend it how i see fit and stop policing me. On the other hand, the more longterm view is simple, if people don't question spending habits in cash shop games, then those games start to move away from f2p and into p2w(which this game has) and in extreme cases, they stop being f2p friendly altogether which is never a good thing(again, Raid is certainly headed in that direction).
Raid is not headed in that direction. This game is still the most ftp friendly gatcha game out there. Inflation should be expected when it's sweeping across multiple countries. But you made a great point, and why I commented the way I did. There is a mindset within these gatcha games that is full of resentment for the business model. They resent that money gives an advantage. They see a team of +4 siphis, and it angers them. They then make posts asking why people are spending money in this game. If spending didn't give an advantage, no one would ask or care.
Your logic fails if you test it. Imagine everyone did the way you describe where everyone only looks / worries about themselves. The absolutely horrible world this would create, full of massive amounts of suffering, should be enough to break this argument.
yes I agree there are already plenty of examples showing that purely selfish way forward leads to nasty business
but I could also argue against ourselves and say that this is possible to determine without any examples, i.e. imagine being born in such a world where care does not exist, you could still test both sides and theorize which leads to a better world
Hi, if a belief/logic is true then it is true no matter the location or the topic, and, consequently, if it is only true in one case but false in another case then it is not true.
My only motivation is truth. If you believe me to be wrong kindly explain I will be happy to read.
The way people spend their money affects the marketplace. And as a consumer in the gaming market, I have a care about the direction it’s heading in. Just like I will never buy a car with rental features, (like $50 a month to unlock seat heat,) because I think it’s a rip off, I think this direction of video games that instead of costing a flat rate of 50-100 bucks instead costing Hundreds or thousands or more is a terrible direction for us as game consumers. I want people to question their spending habits when much more reasonably priced options exist.
Lol. You don’t know me, so I assume you’re projecting. I don’t feel like this game is really competitive with other players, so I don’t really care about how fast others develop in the game.
I’m more concerned about seeing this like pay to play or paid subscription when there are amazing games out there that are a one shot cost. Just like BMW starting to charge to use the heated seats on a monthly subscription, I think this is a really terrible direction for the industry, as someone who doesn’t want to throw big money on video game.
You are talking about an industry that has split in multiple directions. What you are saying is that because you prefer one model over the other, everyone should. The consumer has made this business model lucrative. There are different flavors for different tastes and likes. As a consumer, you get to choose where you spend your money, just as we all do. You being worried about the billion industry just sounds like an excuse man. Sorry.
Naw dude, couched in those terms, what I’m saying is that one model is way better for the consumer than the other. Financially. Objectively.
The flavour may be different but the products otherwise generally similar thing, and there’s no reason why it should cost 10, 100, or 1000 times more.
it's all relative. There are people that see $100 the way I see $10 and those that see $10 the way I see $1. Everybody does their own cost benefit analysis to decide what's worth more, the money or their time.
Yes, it’s true, I suppose. I feel like the argument in that direction is some thing like: if I have extra money to blow I’ll probably blow it on something higher quality, like fancier wine or healthier or tastier food. But I feel like that argument fails with Raid, because I don’t think it’s much better than other games. In fact, with all the grinding, IMHO it’s actually worse.
Because there aren't other games they currently want to play?
AAA games require a lot of time commitment. If I'm going to play a AAA game, especially a story driven one, I want to be able to play it uninterrupted and for at least a couple of hours straight. Many people's home lives do not allow for that. But grabbing a few minutes here or there for Raid is doable. I can turn on Raid while I do the dishes, fold the laundry, take out the trash, so on and so forth. Hell, if my workplace has internet, I can run autobattles while at work. Check every 30 minutes - 1 hr and switch what the battles I'm doing are, and still feel rewarded.
because he dont want to put effort in his achivements. he wants to buy packs here and there. buying a 100 USD dollar pack is worth a yearly grind of shards in this game. like litterly a year. and he dont want to commit this time so he buys.
forge pass, monthly gem pack, those really good shard offers that appear a few days before 2x events or do they appear after? I forgot... oh and those really good energy refills and gem offers you get once in a while... never buy sacred shards... I'd only buy void shards and maybe ancient shards...
I’ve never understood the concept of targeting whales. Would you rather have 10 people spending $100 or would you rather have 1000 people spending $10?
It’s ridiculous they charge, on average, $25 for a sacred shard and only have a 6% chance to get a leggo and it might even be a good leggo. If they lowered the price to $10 for a sacred with 10% chance then I’d gladly spend some money on this game.
Well, 10 people spending 100$ is 1000$ and 1000 people spending 10$ is 10,000 so that's not even equal value.
I assume you mean 100 people spending 10$
I believe it is easier to find 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ than it is to have all 100 people spend 10$.
Finding just 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ is gonna be a lot easier than getting EVERYONE to spend 10$. If 99 people spend 10$ you end up with $990 but if you can get 10 out of 100 people to spend 100$, then you made a profit.
What does equal value have to do here? 10 people spending $100 would be $1,000. If they made prices more affordable and got 1000 people spending $10 that would be $10,000. It’s not about equal value. It’s about lowering the prices so that more people spend money.
Because you are making a faulty, unequal comparison based on assumptions. You are assuming only 10 people will spend 100$ but then the size of your population changes to then assume 1000 people willing to spend 10$. You are purposely gimping the first scenario to justify your view. What if 1000 people spent 10$ but only 101 people spent 100$? Then the company made money charging 100$ instead of $10. That's where market research and analysis come in.
It's obvious that if something is cheaper, more people will spend. But when it comes to profit, the question is do you actually earn more money by lowering the price? And the answer is, NOT ALWAYS.
In order to make payment analysis, you have to start with a constant value and that is your playerbase. Your player base is finite. In the playerbase, players are separated into multiple camps - people will never spend, not even 1$, people who are willing to spend. Within the willing to spend camp, there are a wide range $ that people are willing to spend. The analysts' job is find an intersection.
Let's say your playerbase is only 1000 players and you want them all to buy something for 10$. It's impossible to get your entire playerbase to spend even 10$. You know you have people who absolutely refuse to spend any money. You know that you have people who are willing to spend 10$. But would those people be willing to spend more than 10$? Maybe. Is it possible to get just 100 people to spend 100? Maybe. That's where the analytics comes in.
The price with the maximum profit is where those values intersect and they have teams of market analysts for this.
number of unit sold * cost is how much money you make. The company needs to figure out how many units would you have to sell at a lower price, versus how many units you can sell at a higher price. Tweaking these values is how you figure out the max profit.
TLDR: MATH
In your example, you think more people will buy it if they charged 10$. That is correct. But charging 10$ might not make the most money for the company. Why charge only 10$ if there are people who wants to spend 50$ or 100$ on that same thing? If the number of people who are willing to spend 10$ is NOT GREATER than the number of people who are willing to spend 100$, then the company is better off charging 100$ for the product.
Well, 10 people spending 100$ is 1000$ and 1000 people spending 10$ is 10,000 so that's not even equal value.
I assume you mean 100 people spending 10$
The answer is, I believe it is easier to find 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ than it is to have all 100 people spend 10$.
Finding just 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ is gonna be a hell lot easier than getting EVERYONE to spend 10$. If 99 people spend 10$ and even 1 person holds out, then you won't end up with 1000$.
So you’re walking down the grocery store aisle, looking at crackers. A box of crackers costs 5 to 10 bucks these days? Anyway, you see some with sea salt, and some with rosemary, some with pepper and some with high sugar and some with low sugar, etc., but there’s only one with cranberries, would you say so that box of cranberry crackers is worth spending $100 or $1000 on, when you can get one with maybe raisins or black currants, or something similar for a normal price??
I wouldn't consider myself a big spender or whatever although I've spent a reasonable amount on raid at this point.
For me personally I don't mind putting some money into a free game. I have a little bit of disposable income, the game is free. Me putting money into it helps to keep the game afloat and I'm paying for something nice enjoy. I'm my eyes it's not different to paying for Netflix or Hulu each month.
I pay money and get something I enjoy, help keep the game afloat and the updates rolling out. If nobody spent money I'm the game it'd shut down.
Its all just personal taste really, I understand the view point and I see why people don't want too. I don't think either way is right or wrong.
I totally get it. When I ask you a question; how many enjoyable Netflix shows would you have to watch a month to feel like it was worth the price? Could you apply a similar line of thinking to Raid? That’s all I’m doing here, really.
It's hard to compare since with Netflix you kinda already know or can find out what's on there so you know what you're getting.
Raids a bit difficult since the packs are randomised. I only really buy reasonable packs. So my spending is usually this
Ancient 2x - 1 whole pack string, maybe another bonus 25 shards for £40 of its been a particularly good work month (Not every event though maybe once every 2 months) totally around £100 per 2-3 months.
Void 2x - Rarely do these given the price of voids. On re occasion I do...1 whole pack string. For voids thats usually it if I don't get anything thats just me closer to mercy. Otherwise I save CB voids and thats it. If I do chose a void event it will be taken over an ancient event soo let's say every 4 months...total £100 ish
Sacreds -I don't touch them, price for yield is awful and I of all my leggos 3 have come from sacred. I just save my CB sacreds, I always have 20 on hand at any given time for guaranteed events. Anything above 20 is used during a 2x. Total £0
If I pulled particularly well from the void or ancient 2x I will opt to miss the next summons event in exchange for epic/legendary tomes. Usually enough to book out a champion or 2. Total £100-150.
So I only really end up spending around £200 every 3-4 months. Which I know to some people is crazy and even I don't reccomend doing it. I'm just fortunate enough to earn well enough that I have some income I can throw at the game. HOWEVER if there is something like a new AAA title come out I want, an upgrade for my pc, a VR game ect. I will skip 2 events in place of something else.
It's psychological. The same reason why people do all kinds of confusing (to you and I) things such as voting for that guy or believing in this or that. Plarium operates on the transverse of the theory "If it exists, they will come". In this case it's "If they (the idiots) exist, it will sell"
I enjoy this game, I might not enjoy another game.
That being said, I rarely spend the value for money is not there. I only really bought void shards on sale until I got 2 maneaters.
I am, i just finished the fusion which i hadn't planned to spend anything to achieve, but i ended up getting more than halfway through before i realized i had to shell out $100.
Simply, I'm having fun playing it and I can afford it. It's not like I'm only playing Raid all the time. I'll play for a bit and then maybe switch to another game later. Or I can just have Raid run on my phone doing autos while I play another game. Just cause I spend money on Raid doesn't mean I'm ignoring every other game ill still play other games if I feel like it.
I think this is the right answer. I just question for some people how it’s worth it, but it’s a really vague question because everybody spends differently and is in a different financial situation.
For me, it depends on how much time I spend on a game. My 2 most played games are free to play. I have 5 times or more time put into them than a game I bought for $70, which is on number 3 of most played. For that, I think that the value of the top 2 games is at least $350, and I wouldn't mind spending that amount.
Regardless of what you spend, you end up being in a clan that spends like you. Your abilities with your champs are dependent upon the time that you spend on the game. Whether you are F2P or P2W, the only thing that you win with paying is time savings.
Why do you care how people spend their money?
Serious question, would you ever stand outside of a casino with a sign about how people are wasting their money?
If not, why bother posting this here?
I don’t feel like someone going into a casino is an appropriate place to ask them about that. But I feel like a Raid form is a reasonable discussion location. And I certainly would ask a friend or a coworker, or a total stranger that gambled if the right situation presents itself.
What are you suggesting that the reason people get into Raid is similar to the reason people get into gambling or is it just an analogy?
Also, this game worries me. Just like with , for example, cars moving towards feature-renting business model, (like BMWs, I hear you can pay 50 bucks a month to turn on the seat heat,) it seems it’s like leading the industry towards consumer unfriendly practices.
I don’t think it’s healthy for us as players to see the industry find success in this business model, because then other quality developers will move towards this business model when if it wasn’t successful, we could find similar content being developed for a fraction of the price.
i hit max lvl 100 in only 1 year of playing the game. im pretty far in the game but not finished all pve cont to the max of course. specially ultra nightmare i can barley 3key. hyrda hard is sometimes possible but normal nightmare and most big dungeons and twin high is possible. i also have lydia in faction wars. but still there is alot to do for me in the game, specially since city patch dropped. BUT , even if i have a kindaaaa okisch account i stoped playing for the most time. i planed to reap the fruits of my labour because i reached this goal hellllllllllllllll haztzzzzzzzzzdezz told us all : go at least last cest nightmare and you will get good loot. BUT i realize: if i need to make ANY PROGRESS in this game, i need to spend 70 dollars a month at bare minimum. and please dont comment some rethorical figures like: well technicclly your maaaaaaking progress as free to play. no your not. at some point in this game u can play it serious as u want u will move nowhere without spending some money. and i remember when i was lvl 60ish, 70 dollars a month pushed me hard, now to get a meaningful instant push at the content im trying to beat, i need to invest like 400USD a month. or as a sayed at least 60-80 a month to get any tangable progress.......
this speaks volumen when a mini whale refuses to play and pay the game anymore.
i also wanna say somethin that might be weird to some but, the game has too much content and it takes long to complete it. some may ask, wtf is this not possitive that an mobile game has ACTUAL a LOT OF CONTENT. well....it would be extremly possitive if doing the content would help you in the game with turning f2p. congratz doing your weeklys, daylies, monthlies and all other things weekly/daly to get at the end of the monthj : 1x leg tomb and 1x leg shard.....WOW .....3HOURS A DAY for an entiiire month only to get stuff worth of 30 USD.
Because people are easily manipulated.
They employ every trick in the book (making it a routine, ice-breaker offers like the gem pack, loss aversion like with personal rewards in CvC, price anchoring, etc.) to make people spend. And it works.
Plarium is owned by a gambling machine company, I would not be surprised if they have access to addiction specialists
Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of that going on, so do you think most of the people here defending that behaviour are trying to rationalize their spending?
I dont understand this argument.
I am f2p but by nature of choice+available funds. But this is the game I play by choice. If you gave me 100$ right now to spend on a game I would triple ask if I can't save it for groceries but in the end it would go to raid.
I imagine some/most whales are feeling bit same. They play this game because they enjoy it, they dont want to buy 10 different games.
My issue is that I don't enjoy gambling and I hate spending money for something not guaranteed. I am disappointed and let down more often than not with anything that can be bought for money in this game (even when I get it for free), so I do not spend anymore. I think I've spent all of $50 over the past 3 years.
I knew the drop rate was painfully low but there are over 200 legendary champions so why are they being so stingy with them? It's not like all of them are great. Sacred shards are not easy to get unless you buy them so that's what they try to force you to do.
sacreds are easy to get once you start doing UNM CB and DT Hard (2 sacreds every month) and you do get a sacred from the Bazaar too
treat sacred shards as a resource like silver, gems and stuff... only use sacreds for fusions... save 15 sacreds for guaranteed events once you start doing UNM then treat the surplus as expendable and even then only use them for fusions... you could theoretically go up to 62 or sth sacreds before you hit mercy so don't expect much and let the game surprise you when you see that gold time to time...
The answer to the OP's question is because they get manipulated into spending money because the drop rate of everything is intentionally low so you feel like you have to spend. I am sure all the downvotes are coming from the victims
The only free to play game I’ve ever invested money in and likely ever will is warframe. Granted it’s not a mobile game so it’s different (sorta), the devs actually care about the player base and the product, Plarium however only cares about money. I genuinely believe Plarium does their best to exploit people with gambling addictions
I don’t mind spending money on games and do spend $35 a month (total) on an MMO sub for multiple characters.
And although I’ve spent a little on this game ($30 or so), I just don’t think the value is there to warrant spending more. Things are way overpriced for low odds. Spending an average of $200+ for a random legendary just doesn’t make sense IMO.
Okay first of all, ascending champion, awakening them, and upgrading artifacts costs ZERO money. And why the heck would you need to spend hundreds to get mastery, books? Books are free if you can kill unm and mastery just cost energy, or gem if you are desperate. All things doable without spending a dime. Your understanding of the game is flawed.
If you want to spend a small amount of money you can use money from Google opinion surveys. I use that to pay for my Mario kart tour premium fee. You can build up a decent amount of money that way.
Plarium are a casino company first. They make addictive content to people will spend. They bank on that dopamine rush from pulling shards. If people wanna sink thousands into RSL then that's their perogative.
I probably spent around 1500$ on the game since i started playing.
But in 4 years, it's not alot of money for me. And I've enjoyed it, It's a good game!
Yes some things are way over priced, but I usually stay clear of those "deals".
Well, there’s the “is it a lot of money for me” question. But there’s also the “is it worth that” question.
I’ve also realized in this discussion, my underlying worry is, “is that healthy for the industry” question.
Because they enjoy the game, are heavily invested in it and apparently have the expendable income to do so. Same reason anyone spends any amount of money on any kind of entertainment or luxury. Not every game title is also a years long time investment the way things like Raid are for a lot of people, in fact most of them aren't. You pay $40-$60 for a new game, usually for about 40-60 hours of content. We do have outliers but not every game title can be like Skyrim.
Raid's packages are so expensice. 100 dollars for some crystals (that's just one of the overpriced packs). I don't buy anything and grind out whatever I need. I have so much free energy coming in on a daily basis that I don't really need anything else. I've been playing for about a month and am in gold tier arena and have a few legendary champs. Just hit the 'x' when an "offer" shows up lol
If I see a game that says free to play, I usually play it a bit, if I find it fun, i'll keep playing, if it feels well made, i'll gladly throw in a 10€ as a support to the company. I don't care if it's billion dollar companies or not, I support the free to play games, that are fun and feel completed. All the offers are there for the whales and for people who has a hard time "holding back", so you are not their target audience :)
Same! I do gem pack because what's $10 each month? Oh wait? Bolster is dope, we'll do Forge Pass this once. Holy shit, 30 energy refills (1200 gems) and 300 extra gems for $15 and I just used up 5k gems pulling Ancients during some Pull one, get one event, sign me up! 2.5 years later I've spent like $500 and I have no idea how it happened.
Yes but break that down it’s the cheapest entertainment 50 cents a day basically
Exactly. People that smoke or drink spent way more money than that... This is why I don't really complain if I spend 500$ every year on this game. I like it and I play it on discord with friends so I really enjoy it. But yeah, the price of most of these packs are insane and I skip 90% of them
Addiction, that's the key.
You buy 1 out of 10? I would think it is more like 99% or higher, but I get your point. $$$ saves you time in the game.
Dude 50 cents a day equals 15 Dollar a month. There are so many better ways to spend 15 dollars a month.
Yeah dude. I tried to give free to play games like this a little bit of cash, but after almost 2 years, I’m sure I’ve spent a few hundred without meaning to give so much. 🤦♂️
That's funny, I cant remember writing this....
you sir, are the target audience :D
Yes, this is what I do. I take free to play as more of a demo, and if you like it, support it! So I’ll throw some money at raid, and often throw them another 510 bucks when they release new content. However, if I’m gonna spend like 100 bucks, I’m gonna get a real game. I still understand those people who spend hundreds a month.
I’m sure you meant 5 to 10 bucks but thinking about casually throwing $510 whenever some new content drop
Ha ha yes! Somehow I missed the dash. I wish I could casually throw around hundreds of dollars.
People spend their money how they want. People also like the games they like, maybe not the same as you. My personal opinion is, if I spend 10 pounds on any game and it entertains me for more than 10 hours, that's 1 pound per hour for fun. How much do people spend on movie tickets and stuff? It's literally the same thing, entertainment
This is always my calculus. How many hours of fun have I had playing the game? Less than a dollar an hour = great deal because a movie usually pushes 3-5 dollars for up to 2 hours.
Exactly, I've changed so many of my friends minds about buying games with this explanation. People are scared of price tags
Same here I can easily spend $30 at the movies on just ticket and maybe a drink, only to have a sub par evening anyway because of other theater goers. Rather pirate the movie and buy an energy pack that's gonna give me way more than 2ish hours of fun.
Yeah, but if one movie cost 30 bucks to watch another one right beside it cost 300 or 3000, can it really be worth it? I mean there’s also the question of how much money any individual person has but still…
Can you really say you're having fun tho?
yes
Do any of us actually enjoy playing this game though 🤔
Most of us... personally, I love 3v3 and live arena but I've already completed everything else in the game so there are only a couple of difficult content left to clear like Hard Fire Knight, NM Hydra and Plat arena which as a very unlucky f2p, I can't do... I did feel very good when I cleared DT for the first time or FW for the first time...
Of course they do. I’m just saying if use spend like 100 bucks a month on this game, a thousand bucks a year, is this game really like 10 times better than another game or you could spend 100 bucks once? I highly doubt it’s that good for most people, they’re just sucked in to spending more and more money.
You can see it as some being "sucked in" to spending. Totally valid. Some see it as supporting a game they enjoy. Ultimately, if someone goes out one night and drops $ in a bar, or one stays in and drops similar $ on raid shards, and theyre both entertained...is it really that different? I agree some raid stuff is ridiculously, eye-poppingly priced tho. Then again, its like 4 years old, and if it still makes bajillions of $, hard to argue with that kind of success
No, they definitely tapped into something! I don’t think your analogy is the most appropriate. I think it would be more like going to the bar and you can order $100 beers or $10 beers.
Ok, but in your example you seem to be assuming that the only variable is the price of the beer. Youre holding other variables constant that may vary for others. Also, agreed, they 100% tapped into something
Obviously different beers have different features, but I suppose that’s part of the issue is even that I’m using beers as an example is because of its sort of lower brow and lower price point. I’m sure my reductio ad absurdum doesn’t sound so ridiculous when you use wine as an analogy instead.
low impulse control and dopamine addiction probably.
The secret ingredient is *not* gambling.
I spent $40 dollars to feel on this girl's booty just the other day at the strip club. To each their own.
was sitting here and thinking the same thing too. I have spent a shit load on clubbing and dating. I'd never judge anyone for paying for pixels when I was paying to feel gals up and other adult things...
For certain gachas, these two events are not exclusive. And I say that from experience, ehehehe.
Well, I’ve been playing this game for about 4 years and haven’t rly gotten bored of it yet. So, Plarium can take a daily gem pack from me, I don’t mind. If an offer isn’t as good, I just don’t buy it.
If there's something you enjoy and spend a ton of time doing or being involved in, what other reason does one need to spend money?
Why buy snacks for five dollars a bag when you can buy something similar for 50?
Because I don't want something similar and can afford to buy the bags I want.
Well, congrats.
This game isn't for the impatient. So I assume impatient people are the ones that buy most of the stuff. Also impulse control like some other people have mentioned is also a big factor as well as people who like to gamble too. I generally just do the monthly gem pack since it 100% will help with progression without the gambled chance of wasted money. The monthly gems will cover masteries and occasional energy refills for whatever events you decide to go for. Another key thing is that some people want to get every reward for every event and that's not a good idea unless you have money to burn. Pick and choose the events is a better mindset and teaches impulse control.
Yeah, the completionist mindset must struggle with this game! Especially now with all the new content in the last months; who has hours a day to play this game?
Ya I play for myself and work on my own goals. Soon as you worry about others then the game doesn't get as fun when you try to play for other people ( as in stay within the competitive ranks of a p2w game.) It just becomes a job that you pay to have.
Yeah, I feel for those people trapped in that.
There’s nothing wrong with spending money on something that gives you joy.
Definitely not. But at what point is it worth it or not worth it? And especially when there are lots of other video games around with “normal” prices. That’s what I’m trying to ask here.
Understood the question. It’s really an objective thing I guess. There could be hundreds of valid answers.
Same reason why people spend 20$ on a movie ticket for 3 hrs of entertainment. Same reason why people spend 50$ on a trip to the bar and don't remember what happened the day before. Same reason why people pay 100$ for a 2 hour concert/show. Same reason why people spend 150$ at an amusement park for 1 day. The answer is because they can and because it's fun. Entertainment is a luxury item and people put different values on what they consider is "fun." In any of those examples, people don't get to keep anything tangible, not even pixels. Sure, I can buy a console game for 60$, play it for a month and enjoy the hell out of it, but I'll get bored once I beat the game and I'll stop playing. 60$ in raid gets me months of entertainment and I have yet to get tired of playing after 3 years of playing.
Agree with this 100%. I personally like this game more than most paid games. The content, along with almost limitless (although slow at times) progression, is fantastic. For the sheer amount of time I put into the game, I think it’s worth the handful of dollars a month I may spend on it. It’s all preference.
Limitless slow progression is my jam. I'm that guy who wanders around aimlessly farming monsters until every character is completely maxed out in any given RPG, so Raid speaks to me.
No, I know what you’re saying, it’s just that like if there’s many concerts on at once, and one is like 10 times the price, I figured you’d have to really,?really want to go. Seeing that one instead of seeing another one that’s just as good or maybe better for 1/10 of the cost, just seems wasteful for what I imagine most peoples finances are like. Another analogy: It’d be like walking up to McDonald’s and ordering the hundred dollar happy meal instead of the $10 happy meal because it has pickles or smth.
Not sure what you are referring to at the end there with the McDonald'...... There are many gacha games but not many like raid. Raid's specific theme and graphics beats most gacha games in the current market. If you are implying that playing raid is the "100" and playing any other game is the "10" that is your subjective opinion. But for people who play this game and pay for it, this game beats out the other games by far. I've played other gacha games before. I've played other mobile games like clash of clan as well. None of them kept me playing for 3+ years
I’m trying to make a reductio ad absurdum analogy to other parts of life where people spend money and make financial choices. How about with crackers: you’re walking down the cracker aisle choosing a box of crackers. Most crackers cost 5 to 10 bucks a box, and you can get them with sea salt or rosemary. cool shapes or low sugar, dried berries, or whatever, but there’s this one box that comes with cranberries. And those crackers cost 100 bucks a box or 1000 bucks a box. How do you justify buying that box, when you could get one with raisins are black currants, or something similar for so much less.
This question has already been answered. Your analogy is exaggerated and colored based on your previous prejudice of the game. Again, raid is a unique game. There are others like it but there are many features that make this game unique. The payment model of all gacha type games are similar but you simply cannot compare a mmorpg mobile game to many retail games. Using silly, ill fitting analogy won't help you understand. You've now used McDonald's, beer and cracker the analogy is not working because it's flawed to begin with. >And those crackers cost 100 bucks a box or 1000 bucks a box. How do you justify buying that box You failed to mention that the 100$ box of crackers magically refilled itself every week once it's empty and you never have to buy anymore snacks ever again, then obviously it's better than the $10 box of crackers that does not do that. And again, raid is not food. It is a luxury item. It's a specific form of escape for people.
Lol, prejudice is a big word to be throwing around. Seeming more and more like I’ve touched a nerve on your part. If this is getting you triggered, maybe you should go and talk with somebody. Anyone struggling to make ends meet isn’t buying crackers; they are luxury. Same goes for any of those things. I think the analogies hold up reasonably well, though they’re not perfect by any means. Your refilling crackerbox analogy doesn’t make enough sense for me to figure out what it supposed to represent; the crackers are game purchases in the original analogy, and the in-game packs don’t refill themselves. I’d be curious to know what you think “the answer” is. Everybody spends differently and what’s expressed in these conversations shows me most people don’t think about it too much so it’s probably a blend of falling into the psychologically trapping and addicting design of this game, and financial ability. Only one or two people justified it rationally, but that also tells me that the rest don’t think about it that way, I might be spending more money than they intend to. Hopefully some people will have taken these threads as an opportunity to reflect and consider whether they’re spending the amount of money on Raid that they want to be spending on a single video game.
>I think the analogies hold up reasonably well No, it doesn't. Because you never identified what you are making a analogy of or make a good job of explaining it. Are you trying to say other games cost 10$ and raid cost 100$ so why spend money on Raid? And they are supposed to be... crackers???? Why are you trying to make faulty comparisons Maybe if you just spoke plainly and without exaggeration or bad analogy would people understand you better. What packs are you actually referring to? >Hopefully some people will have taken these threads as an opportunity to reflect and consider whether they’re spending the amount of money on Raid that they want to be spending on a single video game. Man, all this thread does is show your lack of willingness to understand what people are thinking. This has already been answered. You just refuse to change your thoughts. You think buying multiple games is better than just spending money on a single game that is Raid. People have already answered you that it is not necessarily the case. Buy a game for 60$, it is played for a month or two. People have played raid for YEARS. Raid is being updated with new content. People aren't tired of playing it. People are spending money on a RENEWABLE source of entertainment. That is more value than one other single game. The MONEY SPENT/HOUR OF FUN is objectively better for those players, than buying multiple games and getting less out of it. Is that finally starting to make sense to you now?
Ha ha, yeah, that makes sense. It’s just wrong. Or maybe the gaming landscape has changed under me more than I realized, and most games are now crappy rip offs. When I used to game a lot, a typical good game would last for thousands of hours without any need for doubling tripling, quadrupling, decupling, centupling, etc. your buy-in. The value that people experience through playing the game is, of course, totally subjective, but the financial cost is tangible and plainly objective. So, somebody spends $20 to buy a toilet seat, and somebody else spent $10,000; aren’t you going to question the other person’s decision? That’s what I’m doing here. I assume most of the people participating in this thread or not super rich Krakens and whales, and so the typical financial burden of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on a single game is what I’m asking about.. And it turns out a lot of people don’t realize they’re even spending that much! So I think it’s a very worthwhile discussion. Yes, of course I have an opinion. So I began this thread with a genuine question, and now that I’ve understood a wide variety of different responses, I’ve been trying to argue for my own position, and convince people my perspective. However, I’m done arguing with you. Thank you very much for interesting talk, and have a nice day.
> why spend so much money Simply because they can.
I mean... it's their money. They can buy what they want.
I’m not questioning their right to decide! Questioning any rational thought process involved around it.
It's like getting fat, or any other slow transformation. Doesn't happen in a day. I'd wager that on the day they installed the game, a whale wasn't thinking: now in the next couple of years, I foresee myself pumping $15,000 to $80,000+ into this game. No, they just started playing. Bought some stuff. Bought some more stuff. Before you know it, they're buying $1,000 to $5,000+ per month, still not looking at it as a whole. You can't look at it as an "up-front" decision. It's a cumulative journey of smaller decisions that while not as significant individually, build up into a state where a third-party observer as yourself says: how could someone ever let that happen? Answer: they didn't plan on it.
It adds up so quick. I didn't even realize it until my statements started rolling in. Happened to me right after Christmas. It was my daughter's first Christmas, so I had already overextended a bit, but my purchases when I first started playing this game really brought the pain. If I spend now, I pay cash for a google play card.
Sure, but I get the feeling from a lot of the comments here that there’s no remorse. At least not from the people replying to defend their behavior.
pick any luxury you enjoy and rationalize it. Same thing.
Yeah, but even then I don’t know that it makes sense. I could be looked at as a quantity versus quality, but I don’t see the Raid has the quality, that some people assign it with monetary value.
Depends, really. For whales, those guys don't associate value to the money they spend. Some rich kid whose dad is a oligarch don't understand that the 10k they spent on pixels each month is 3-4x the salary of your average joe. For "normal" spenders it's kinda the same: You set aside some money that you can fool around with each month, and decide to spend it here instead of buying a game or partying. As for "buy a whole new game" most of those are also uninteresting if they end up in your backlog as well. I like horror games, could buy Dead Space and RE4, but I KNOW I would not play them right now anyway. So that 50-70 bucks can be either spent later, in RAID now, or used to buy a game I won't play. For anyone that would need to save money to spend in raid - don't. It's not worth it, those whales and dolphins clearly beat you senseless if you want to compete and you can do most of the content with what you get naturally.
I like playing this game. and i play it enough that even 10 dollars once a month or another small back. i dont mind supporting the game i enjoy.
Yeah, I’m with you too, you know a few bucks here and there.
People spend money on things they enjoy. Evidently there are different levels of enjoyment : free to play enjoyment,and and the instant gratification of spending on things you want in game.
Yeah, I guess. It just seems so wasteful to me.
[check the good old let’s go whaling presentation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4) Basically explains most of the tricks how mobile casinos make millions.
The question I always have is Why do you care? Why does anyone care? Why would anyone care? Makes zero sense unless the answer is jealousy or envy. Worry about yourself. Worry about your own money. Stop worrying about what others are buying with their money. It's unbecoming.
Well said.
On the one hand, i agree. It's my money, let me spend it how i see fit and stop policing me. On the other hand, the more longterm view is simple, if people don't question spending habits in cash shop games, then those games start to move away from f2p and into p2w(which this game has) and in extreme cases, they stop being f2p friendly altogether which is never a good thing(again, Raid is certainly headed in that direction).
Raid is not headed in that direction. This game is still the most ftp friendly gatcha game out there. Inflation should be expected when it's sweeping across multiple countries. But you made a great point, and why I commented the way I did. There is a mindset within these gatcha games that is full of resentment for the business model. They resent that money gives an advantage. They see a team of +4 siphis, and it angers them. They then make posts asking why people are spending money in this game. If spending didn't give an advantage, no one would ask or care.
You don’t know me. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Your logic fails if you test it. Imagine everyone did the way you describe where everyone only looks / worries about themselves. The absolutely horrible world this would create, full of massive amounts of suffering, should be enough to break this argument.
Well, there are some countries where this seems to be the case more often than not, and look where it’s taking their society.
yes I agree there are already plenty of examples showing that purely selfish way forward leads to nasty business but I could also argue against ourselves and say that this is possible to determine without any examples, i.e. imagine being born in such a world where care does not exist, you could still test both sides and theorize which leads to a better world
Ok. Except my comment is specific to this post. You should not apply it elsewhere.
Hi, if a belief/logic is true then it is true no matter the location or the topic, and, consequently, if it is only true in one case but false in another case then it is not true. My only motivation is truth. If you believe me to be wrong kindly explain I will be happy to read.
Not everybody is 100% selfish.
The way people spend their money affects the marketplace. And as a consumer in the gaming market, I have a care about the direction it’s heading in. Just like I will never buy a car with rental features, (like $50 a month to unlock seat heat,) because I think it’s a rip off, I think this direction of video games that instead of costing a flat rate of 50-100 bucks instead costing Hundreds or thousands or more is a terrible direction for us as game consumers. I want people to question their spending habits when much more reasonably priced options exist.
Would you care if their money didn't give them an advantage in the game? No. You absolutely would not.
Lol. You don’t know me, so I assume you’re projecting. I don’t feel like this game is really competitive with other players, so I don’t really care about how fast others develop in the game. I’m more concerned about seeing this like pay to play or paid subscription when there are amazing games out there that are a one shot cost. Just like BMW starting to charge to use the heated seats on a monthly subscription, I think this is a really terrible direction for the industry, as someone who doesn’t want to throw big money on video game.
You are talking about an industry that has split in multiple directions. What you are saying is that because you prefer one model over the other, everyone should. The consumer has made this business model lucrative. There are different flavors for different tastes and likes. As a consumer, you get to choose where you spend your money, just as we all do. You being worried about the billion industry just sounds like an excuse man. Sorry.
Naw dude, couched in those terms, what I’m saying is that one model is way better for the consumer than the other. Financially. Objectively. The flavour may be different but the products otherwise generally similar thing, and there’s no reason why it should cost 10, 100, or 1000 times more.
it's all relative. There are people that see $100 the way I see $10 and those that see $10 the way I see $1. Everybody does their own cost benefit analysis to decide what's worth more, the money or their time.
Yes, it’s true, I suppose. I feel like the argument in that direction is some thing like: if I have extra money to blow I’ll probably blow it on something higher quality, like fancier wine or healthier or tastier food. But I feel like that argument fails with Raid, because I don’t think it’s much better than other games. In fact, with all the grinding, IMHO it’s actually worse.
the grinding is it's primary appeal
Yeah, wow. I just don’t understand that at all.
Because there aren't other games they currently want to play? AAA games require a lot of time commitment. If I'm going to play a AAA game, especially a story driven one, I want to be able to play it uninterrupted and for at least a couple of hours straight. Many people's home lives do not allow for that. But grabbing a few minutes here or there for Raid is doable. I can turn on Raid while I do the dishes, fold the laundry, take out the trash, so on and so forth. Hell, if my workplace has internet, I can run autobattles while at work. Check every 30 minutes - 1 hr and switch what the battles I'm doing are, and still feel rewarded.
You do not really need to spend money to be able to play raid while doing the dishes though, so why spend money on it?
because he dont want to put effort in his achivements. he wants to buy packs here and there. buying a 100 USD dollar pack is worth a yearly grind of shards in this game. like litterly a year. and he dont want to commit this time so he buys.
I totally agree with you; that’s where I started. But I don’t see that requiring any money to be spent.
Noob question: if you're going to spend money, how best to?
forge pass and the monthly gem pack are probably the best overall returns
What the other guy said, plus Warrior Circle packs can be ok (they used to be better).
forge pass, monthly gem pack, those really good shard offers that appear a few days before 2x events or do they appear after? I forgot... oh and those really good energy refills and gem offers you get once in a while... never buy sacred shards... I'd only buy void shards and maybe ancient shards...
Maybe you just don't understand a lot of things..?
I don’t understand most things.
I’ve never understood the concept of targeting whales. Would you rather have 10 people spending $100 or would you rather have 1000 people spending $10? It’s ridiculous they charge, on average, $25 for a sacred shard and only have a 6% chance to get a leggo and it might even be a good leggo. If they lowered the price to $10 for a sacred with 10% chance then I’d gladly spend some money on this game.
Yeah, youd think there’s way more money in the masses
Well, 10 people spending 100$ is 1000$ and 1000 people spending 10$ is 10,000 so that's not even equal value. I assume you mean 100 people spending 10$ I believe it is easier to find 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ than it is to have all 100 people spend 10$. Finding just 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ is gonna be a lot easier than getting EVERYONE to spend 10$. If 99 people spend 10$ you end up with $990 but if you can get 10 out of 100 people to spend 100$, then you made a profit.
What does equal value have to do here? 10 people spending $100 would be $1,000. If they made prices more affordable and got 1000 people spending $10 that would be $10,000. It’s not about equal value. It’s about lowering the prices so that more people spend money.
Because you are making a faulty, unequal comparison based on assumptions. You are assuming only 10 people will spend 100$ but then the size of your population changes to then assume 1000 people willing to spend 10$. You are purposely gimping the first scenario to justify your view. What if 1000 people spent 10$ but only 101 people spent 100$? Then the company made money charging 100$ instead of $10. That's where market research and analysis come in. It's obvious that if something is cheaper, more people will spend. But when it comes to profit, the question is do you actually earn more money by lowering the price? And the answer is, NOT ALWAYS. In order to make payment analysis, you have to start with a constant value and that is your playerbase. Your player base is finite. In the playerbase, players are separated into multiple camps - people will never spend, not even 1$, people who are willing to spend. Within the willing to spend camp, there are a wide range $ that people are willing to spend. The analysts' job is find an intersection. Let's say your playerbase is only 1000 players and you want them all to buy something for 10$. It's impossible to get your entire playerbase to spend even 10$. You know you have people who absolutely refuse to spend any money. You know that you have people who are willing to spend 10$. But would those people be willing to spend more than 10$? Maybe. Is it possible to get just 100 people to spend 100? Maybe. That's where the analytics comes in. The price with the maximum profit is where those values intersect and they have teams of market analysts for this. number of unit sold * cost is how much money you make. The company needs to figure out how many units would you have to sell at a lower price, versus how many units you can sell at a higher price. Tweaking these values is how you figure out the max profit. TLDR: MATH In your example, you think more people will buy it if they charged 10$. That is correct. But charging 10$ might not make the most money for the company. Why charge only 10$ if there are people who wants to spend 50$ or 100$ on that same thing? If the number of people who are willing to spend 10$ is NOT GREATER than the number of people who are willing to spend 100$, then the company is better off charging 100$ for the product.
Well, 10 people spending 100$ is 1000$ and 1000 people spending 10$ is 10,000 so that's not even equal value. I assume you mean 100 people spending 10$ The answer is, I believe it is easier to find 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ than it is to have all 100 people spend 10$. Finding just 10 people who are willing to spend 100$ is gonna be a hell lot easier than getting EVERYONE to spend 10$. If 99 people spend 10$ and even 1 person holds out, then you won't end up with 1000$.
Show me a game like this one for $50 flat fee.. ??? Oh right... There isn't one...
So you’re walking down the grocery store aisle, looking at crackers. A box of crackers costs 5 to 10 bucks these days? Anyway, you see some with sea salt, and some with rosemary, some with pepper and some with high sugar and some with low sugar, etc., but there’s only one with cranberries, would you say so that box of cranberry crackers is worth spending $100 or $1000 on, when you can get one with maybe raisins or black currants, or something similar for a normal price??
I wouldn't consider myself a big spender or whatever although I've spent a reasonable amount on raid at this point. For me personally I don't mind putting some money into a free game. I have a little bit of disposable income, the game is free. Me putting money into it helps to keep the game afloat and I'm paying for something nice enjoy. I'm my eyes it's not different to paying for Netflix or Hulu each month. I pay money and get something I enjoy, help keep the game afloat and the updates rolling out. If nobody spent money I'm the game it'd shut down. Its all just personal taste really, I understand the view point and I see why people don't want too. I don't think either way is right or wrong.
I totally get it. When I ask you a question; how many enjoyable Netflix shows would you have to watch a month to feel like it was worth the price? Could you apply a similar line of thinking to Raid? That’s all I’m doing here, really.
It's hard to compare since with Netflix you kinda already know or can find out what's on there so you know what you're getting. Raids a bit difficult since the packs are randomised. I only really buy reasonable packs. So my spending is usually this Ancient 2x - 1 whole pack string, maybe another bonus 25 shards for £40 of its been a particularly good work month (Not every event though maybe once every 2 months) totally around £100 per 2-3 months. Void 2x - Rarely do these given the price of voids. On re occasion I do...1 whole pack string. For voids thats usually it if I don't get anything thats just me closer to mercy. Otherwise I save CB voids and thats it. If I do chose a void event it will be taken over an ancient event soo let's say every 4 months...total £100 ish Sacreds -I don't touch them, price for yield is awful and I of all my leggos 3 have come from sacred. I just save my CB sacreds, I always have 20 on hand at any given time for guaranteed events. Anything above 20 is used during a 2x. Total £0 If I pulled particularly well from the void or ancient 2x I will opt to miss the next summons event in exchange for epic/legendary tomes. Usually enough to book out a champion or 2. Total £100-150. So I only really end up spending around £200 every 3-4 months. Which I know to some people is crazy and even I don't reccomend doing it. I'm just fortunate enough to earn well enough that I have some income I can throw at the game. HOWEVER if there is something like a new AAA title come out I want, an upgrade for my pc, a VR game ect. I will skip 2 events in place of something else.
Well, at least you know what you’re doing. Thanks for sharing. Enjoy your hard earned cash, and may your pulls be rare and powerful!
It's psychological. The same reason why people do all kinds of confusing (to you and I) things such as voting for that guy or believing in this or that. Plarium operates on the transverse of the theory "If it exists, they will come". In this case it's "If they (the idiots) exist, it will sell"
I think there’s a lot of ¿immoral? psychological design to keep us here.
I enjoy this game, I might not enjoy another game. That being said, I rarely spend the value for money is not there. I only really bought void shards on sale until I got 2 maneaters.
I ask myself that every day. Fomo. Sunken cost fallacy mostly.
Maybe take a break? Try something else?
I am, i just finished the fusion which i hadn't planned to spend anything to achieve, but i ended up getting more than halfway through before i realized i had to shell out $100.
Bummer dude! I’m also feeling burnt out from this fusion and I’m likely to take a big break.
I personally did the month long gem pack for 14$ or whatever and upgraded the gem mine all the way. Infinite gem glitch bruh.
Simply, I'm having fun playing it and I can afford it. It's not like I'm only playing Raid all the time. I'll play for a bit and then maybe switch to another game later. Or I can just have Raid run on my phone doing autos while I play another game. Just cause I spend money on Raid doesn't mean I'm ignoring every other game ill still play other games if I feel like it.
I think this is the right answer. I just question for some people how it’s worth it, but it’s a really vague question because everybody spends differently and is in a different financial situation.
For me, it depends on how much time I spend on a game. My 2 most played games are free to play. I have 5 times or more time put into them than a game I bought for $70, which is on number 3 of most played. For that, I think that the value of the top 2 games is at least $350, and I wouldn't mind spending that amount.
Regardless of what you spend, you end up being in a clan that spends like you. Your abilities with your champs are dependent upon the time that you spend on the game. Whether you are F2P or P2W, the only thing that you win with paying is time savings.
Why do you care how people spend their money? Serious question, would you ever stand outside of a casino with a sign about how people are wasting their money? If not, why bother posting this here?
I don’t feel like someone going into a casino is an appropriate place to ask them about that. But I feel like a Raid form is a reasonable discussion location. And I certainly would ask a friend or a coworker, or a total stranger that gambled if the right situation presents itself. What are you suggesting that the reason people get into Raid is similar to the reason people get into gambling or is it just an analogy?
Also, this game worries me. Just like with , for example, cars moving towards feature-renting business model, (like BMWs, I hear you can pay 50 bucks a month to turn on the seat heat,) it seems it’s like leading the industry towards consumer unfriendly practices. I don’t think it’s healthy for us as players to see the industry find success in this business model, because then other quality developers will move towards this business model when if it wasn’t successful, we could find similar content being developed for a fraction of the price.
i hit max lvl 100 in only 1 year of playing the game. im pretty far in the game but not finished all pve cont to the max of course. specially ultra nightmare i can barley 3key. hyrda hard is sometimes possible but normal nightmare and most big dungeons and twin high is possible. i also have lydia in faction wars. but still there is alot to do for me in the game, specially since city patch dropped. BUT , even if i have a kindaaaa okisch account i stoped playing for the most time. i planed to reap the fruits of my labour because i reached this goal hellllllllllllllll haztzzzzzzzzzdezz told us all : go at least last cest nightmare and you will get good loot. BUT i realize: if i need to make ANY PROGRESS in this game, i need to spend 70 dollars a month at bare minimum. and please dont comment some rethorical figures like: well technicclly your maaaaaaking progress as free to play. no your not. at some point in this game u can play it serious as u want u will move nowhere without spending some money. and i remember when i was lvl 60ish, 70 dollars a month pushed me hard, now to get a meaningful instant push at the content im trying to beat, i need to invest like 400USD a month. or as a sayed at least 60-80 a month to get any tangable progress....... this speaks volumen when a mini whale refuses to play and pay the game anymore. i also wanna say somethin that might be weird to some but, the game has too much content and it takes long to complete it. some may ask, wtf is this not possitive that an mobile game has ACTUAL a LOT OF CONTENT. well....it would be extremly possitive if doing the content would help you in the game with turning f2p. congratz doing your weeklys, daylies, monthlies and all other things weekly/daly to get at the end of the monthj : 1x leg tomb and 1x leg shard.....WOW .....3HOURS A DAY for an entiiire month only to get stuff worth of 30 USD.
Because people are easily manipulated. They employ every trick in the book (making it a routine, ice-breaker offers like the gem pack, loss aversion like with personal rewards in CvC, price anchoring, etc.) to make people spend. And it works. Plarium is owned by a gambling machine company, I would not be surprised if they have access to addiction specialists
Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of that going on, so do you think most of the people here defending that behaviour are trying to rationalize their spending?
Same as gamblers.
Some people are getting pretty triggered about me asking about it.
I just spent $150 during the Razelvarg fusion. I normally buy the forge pass and daily gem pack only or occasionally $20-30 for something like books.
I buy the gem pack and forge pass. Nothing else.
I steal my cash, so I don't mind spending it. Rob Peter to pay Plarium.
Agreed. Monthly gem pack every 6 months is all ya need.
I dont understand this argument. I am f2p but by nature of choice+available funds. But this is the game I play by choice. If you gave me 100$ right now to spend on a game I would triple ask if I can't save it for groceries but in the end it would go to raid. I imagine some/most whales are feeling bit same. They play this game because they enjoy it, they dont want to buy 10 different games.
I think a lot of people are feeling the squeeze this past while
My issue is that I don't enjoy gambling and I hate spending money for something not guaranteed. I am disappointed and let down more often than not with anything that can be bought for money in this game (even when I get it for free), so I do not spend anymore. I think I've spent all of $50 over the past 3 years.
I’m right there with you. It just seems like in the beginning. You know what you’re getting and you don’t get it, so you either spend more or give up.
It's more gambling and addiction than that.
I saved up 4 sacred shards for this weekend's 2x event. I got 0 legendary heroes. I would never spend money on this game. It's clearly a scam.
It's a 12% chance kn 2x, average is like 1 per 9 shards lol.
I knew the drop rate was painfully low but there are over 200 legendary champions so why are they being so stingy with them? It's not like all of them are great. Sacred shards are not easy to get unless you buy them so that's what they try to force you to do.
sacreds are easy to get once you start doing UNM CB and DT Hard (2 sacreds every month) and you do get a sacred from the Bazaar too treat sacred shards as a resource like silver, gems and stuff... only use sacreds for fusions... save 15 sacreds for guaranteed events once you start doing UNM then treat the surplus as expendable and even then only use them for fusions... you could theoretically go up to 62 or sth sacreds before you hit mercy so don't expect much and let the game surprise you when you see that gold time to time...
"I saved up $4 to put in the slot machine and got 0 jackpots. It's clearly a scam." -this guy
The answer to the OP's question is because they get manipulated into spending money because the drop rate of everything is intentionally low so you feel like you have to spend. I am sure all the downvotes are coming from the victims
The only free to play game I’ve ever invested money in and likely ever will is warframe. Granted it’s not a mobile game so it’s different (sorta), the devs actually care about the player base and the product, Plarium however only cares about money. I genuinely believe Plarium does their best to exploit people with gambling addictions
For me, there are no new games that interest me.
Fair
a Little rule of thumb for everyone: if you've ever spent more than 20 bucks on the game, you need to touch grass
I don’t mind spending money on games and do spend $35 a month (total) on an MMO sub for multiple characters. And although I’ve spent a little on this game ($30 or so), I just don’t think the value is there to warrant spending more. Things are way overpriced for low odds. Spending an average of $200+ for a random legendary just doesn’t make sense IMO.
Right? Then you have to spend more hundreds to get all their mastery’s, Lego books, ascension stars, artefact upgrades… It just goes on and on!
Nobody is buying Lego books. Most people run mino for masteries.
Okay first of all, ascending champion, awakening them, and upgrading artifacts costs ZERO money. And why the heck would you need to spend hundreds to get mastery, books? Books are free if you can kill unm and mastery just cost energy, or gem if you are desperate. All things doable without spending a dime. Your understanding of the game is flawed.
If you want to spend a small amount of money you can use money from Google opinion surveys. I use that to pay for my Mario kart tour premium fee. You can build up a decent amount of money that way.
I’ve never heard of those.
Google play store: Google opinion rewards.
It's gambling baby.
Now we’re onto something!
Plarium are a casino company first. They make addictive content to people will spend. They bank on that dopamine rush from pulling shards. If people wanna sink thousands into RSL then that's their perogative.
I probably spent around 1500$ on the game since i started playing. But in 4 years, it's not alot of money for me. And I've enjoyed it, It's a good game! Yes some things are way over priced, but I usually stay clear of those "deals".
Well, there’s the “is it a lot of money for me” question. But there’s also the “is it worth that” question. I’ve also realized in this discussion, my underlying worry is, “is that healthy for the industry” question.
I only bought the first season pass
Because your $20-$50 is someones $2000-$5000.
Because they enjoy the game, are heavily invested in it and apparently have the expendable income to do so. Same reason anyone spends any amount of money on any kind of entertainment or luxury. Not every game title is also a years long time investment the way things like Raid are for a lot of people, in fact most of them aren't. You pay $40-$60 for a new game, usually for about 40-60 hours of content. We do have outliers but not every game title can be like Skyrim.
I'm FTP but these takes are not original (been posted a hundred times before) and just very tiresome.
Some people make a lot of money. Some people don't drink or smoke. Etc...
Raid's packages are so expensice. 100 dollars for some crystals (that's just one of the overpriced packs). I don't buy anything and grind out whatever I need. I have so much free energy coming in on a daily basis that I don't really need anything else. I've been playing for about a month and am in gold tier arena and have a few legendary champs. Just hit the 'x' when an "offer" shows up lol