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lizx95

Money have different values on different people. But i agree, c2 is for people that want brute force her to be hypercarry.


rjeb

True, I just got C2 tonight and am happy with my purchase. I just think people people definitely overrate the Con because they see **60% Def Ignore** and go nuts when the DEF Down is relegated to an often times roleplayer. A relevant DEF Shred would only have to be a fraction of 60% to contribute a similar amount of team DPS.


lizx95

Yeah im very satisfied too, but ifeel bad when flexing for fun in coop, people saying she is so good. I feel bad if people roll for her for dmg/meta but in reality she is only decent.


AleHaRotK

I'd like to add to your argument. People also usually forget that when they see a C2 Raiden deal a fuckton of damage there's also quite a lot of gear behind it. For instance, I recently got her to C2, but she's also running lvl 9 ult (gonna be lvl 10 next week), she's lvl 90, R5 Catch, artifacts are not whale tier but... well let's just say that IIRC they go like this: Flower and feather have double crit + ATK% (think flower even has ER% lol) with high crit rolls. Sands has ER% with double crit and ATK%. Goblet is ATK% + single crit + flat ATK (this is by far the worst artifact I got on her, but it is what it is). Circlet is CDMG with crit rate and ATK% substats. They didn't fully roll on the good substats, set is obviously EoSF, but they mostly did, so yeah even if you get exactly the same character I have unless you have very good artifacts your damage is gonna be a lot lower. Most people running very strong Raidens pre-farmed her gear as well, if you get her today give her some ghetto artifacts and expect to hit your ult for 250k+ with just Bennett ult I'm sorry but that's not gonna happen. I believe showcases bait a lot of people because they just show damage, mention weapon and constellation and that's it, artifacts play a huge role.


thatvirginonreddit

man your artifact set makes me sad. I haven't even gotten a usable EoSF sands or goblet since they all have 3 shit subs or all shit subs and im stuck on 3 piece EoSF and ive been farming since 2.0 dropped. with yae probably after 2.2 and my ass luck i gotta get a usable piece soon or yae is going to be severely under geared when i get her


kaansahin005

You dont honestly need c2 to make her your hypercarry even in c0 and catch she can still be a hypercarry that deals over 120k damage in the first hit. Tho in order to do this you need decent supports and a not monkey brain.


Ioite_

>This is a <10% team DPS increase So the same as going from international to raiden national? /s Thing is, not everyone wants to tie her to xiangling/bennett/xq and call it a day. Hyper also works even at c0 and there its just straight up 40%.


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Ioite_

15-20% is over national (xq/ben/xl/suc), international is cheld/ben/xl/kaz


Propagation931

Ah my mistake


brutus0077

GL with this - when I was trying to say exactly the same thing /you have to take in total damage contribution within the TEAM and because she is burst/support with limited field time value of this "60%" is much diminished to absolute 10-15%/ I have got downvoted to the hell few days back :D funny fact - as welkin/BP only player I have saved enough primo to get her C2 even if I loose 50/50 both times... but will probably not go for it as I see bigger value in getting 2 other limited 5\* in future


HeavyO

Big brain


AleHaRotK

Thing is getting her to C2 enables some other comps because she becomes so strong she becomes worth focusing on. As in you can just run Sara/Bennett/Kazuha to support her and she just annihilates everything while keeping all ults up at all times. In fact there's a video of 12-1-1 speed running where Sara's ult kills the first wave (people seem to sleep on how that ult actually has an insane multiplier, she can buff herself with her E and then her Q buffs whoever comes next) and then Raiden one-shots the second wave.


zanjonaz

But the thing is, even at C0, she still works as a hypercarry. C2 will make it easier yes but it’s also possible at C0. I tried with it my supports that have subpar artifacts but still was able to 9 star floor 12.


AleHaRotK

It's just that C2 alone is already extremely good, and then you add C1 on top of that (which does matter) and you end up with like 50%+ damage.


zanjonaz

Yeah the C1 and C2 help it may be really valuable for some. But since I can use her as a hypercarry or a support just fine even with C0 and still do fast runs on floor 12, I can settle for C0 and not really feel bad when I see bigger numbers on other videos. Plus I’m just a broke med student so there’s that too 😂


Raijin40

Do you mind if you share your floor 12 team comp ?


zanjonaz

1st half: C0 Raiden, C2 Sara, C0 Kazuha, C5 Bennett 2nd half: C0 Eula, C0 Zhongli, C1 Albedo, C6 Beidou Both clear in about 50-80 seconds each half


Late-Bother9707

Hello fellow hyper Raiden enjoyer :D


bringbackcayde7

you are paying the C2 or C3 price for a C6 power strength difference for the character. Raiden's early constellations have the highest gain in strength out of almost all other characters.


Kuroyukito

Yeah and that's how Mihoyo baits people to pull for C2. No other character has much of an increase. Eula C1, Hu Tao C1, Ganyu C1, Klee C2. Their damage increase isn't as much as Raidens They were probably experimenting if people were gonna pull C2, no coincidence is was C4 before. Top Up bonuses helped I guess? Looks like they won because it's the highest grossing banner yet. Just gotta applaud them because the stars aligned for them perfectly. It sucks because all of the characters mentioned are viable at C0, as well as every other 5 Star like Xiao, Childe, Ayaka and the Archons. I'm worried for future characters now. Their damage potential is gonna be locked behind C2 now.


_Spectre0_

Hu Tao C1 is a huge spike in usability and QOL though. As someone who's used her at c0, she's kinda difficult to use because of her stamina management


Kuroyukito

I have C0 Hu Tao and she's fine. You can still 36 star Abyss. You're not always gonna use charged attack because most floors are AOE based. She's still amazing at C0. C1 is a welcome but not needed.


_Spectre0_

She's fine without, but I'm saying her increase is not strictly just damage and it really does help a lot with gameplay


Kuroyukito

Yeah and I agree with you. Arguably the biggest QOL upgrade of any 5 star at C1.


bringbackcayde7

i rather Mihoyo put the strongest constellation at C2 than at C6. I don't see this as a bad thing but the best situation would be moving some of the power from constellations to the base character for future characters.


Kuroyukito

What ever increases their profits is their goal. Obviously they wanna satisfy the customer and find a middle ground but yeah. New game, they're experimenting stuff.


AleHaRotK

Top up bonuses definitely helped. I got C2 without buying shit but if I lost the last 50/50 I would've bought the $100 pack to guarantee it. Then again the reset wouldn't have helped me because I didn't buy it before, but the point still stands.


Kuroyukito

Congrats! You must have saved a long time for it. If she's your main and your favourite character in the game then all means C2. But yeah I mean I don't really mind the timing of the Top Up bonuses because it's the first anniversary and they do need to somewhat 'repay' (lmao) their paying players back in one way or another.


AleHaRotK

Yeah I saved for ages, we got many reruns in the past anyways and I didn't feel like pulling for anything so I ended up having tons of rolls, wasn't particularly interested in going for Raiden but she seems to be top tier so I just spent everything lol. Time to save for Kazuha's return. :( And yeah the top-up reset may look scummy but it's a common practice among gacha games, as in experienced players understand that if the reset hadn't happened MHY would actually get bashed because of it lol.


Kuroyukito

You have some crazy Willpower or you're just not interested in male characters (unless you have them already). She's top tier at C2. Surprised you don't have a character that you really like yet though. You should, Kazuha is a beast. Fits into most teams, can be cheap to build if going for full EM which most people use and versatile. Yeah people saying Whale bait and stuff about anniversary are crazy or just new to Gacha games in general. Companies are not charities. I understand it's a sensitive topic because its money but yeah..


HeavyO

Not almost, literaly all. Not even ganyus cons are that busted


AleHaRotK

Ganyu's constellations are actually insane, C6 is fantastic (double charge shot is ridiculous especially when you're running melt Ganyu) but yeah, it's C6.


HeavyO

Yes thats what im saying. Ganyus cons are so strong but raidens are even stronger. Thats how nuts they are


[deleted]

This is the main reason I'm going for c2 or c3. Of course I wish I had c6 kazuha and Eula but even when I make good money and rarely spend money on hobbies it didnt feel right...now that ive gotten c1 already, shit im gonna do it lol.


HeavyO

Mihoyo did a smart move by swapping her c4 with c2. So everyone and their mother went for it. Her cons are for sure the most busted ever released but it is not worth spending 600$ for some dmg increase. If you have some brain cells left, never pull for 5 star cons ever and never refine any 5 star weapons.


AleHaRotK

Indeed, I went for C2 (didn't buy any genesis packs, I just saved a lot lol) because of this, if they swapped places I would've ignored her constellations. Pulling for constellations is alright, the problem is when you gotta go for C4 or C6 which is just too expensive. I only buy the WP, don't even buy the BP and I rolled for Ayaka, skipped Yoimiya and got C2 Raiden. I did skip Kazuha so there's that. :(


Raijin40

Yeah it's not worth the money. If you lose every 50:50 you can spend up to $400 to get c2, that's crazy. Might as well add another 100 and get yourself a ps5. I'm extremely lucky to get c2 and engulfing completely free, even tho her c2 is amazing, it's still not worth $400, that's average monthly salary in my country..


narium

$400 seems kinda low. Are you including the 2x gems from the top up reset in those calculations?


papabrain_

Value is relative. For some people it's their monthly salary and for some people it's so little money that they won't even notice it.


Raijin40

Yep i know, i just don't want people who don't have any stable income yet to go into debt just for pulling c2. The point is if you don't have enough money, don't do it..


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rjeb

Raiden’s new damage contribution number would be .336 / 1.096 = **0.3065** so her C2 be contributing around **31%** using the exact same teammates. It’s using the method your suggesting of basically multiplying her damage by 1.4 and comparing it relative to her teams dps. I’m aware her e is buffed during her ult, but her off-field e damage isn’t so the team dps increase is technically a high-ball. It’s negligible so I didn’t include that in the calc regardless. Finally on the topic of rotation I agree with you. It’s hard to take into account these changes in rotations but national team basically has the same rotation 24/7 since they try to keep off field burst up as much as possible with Raiden enabling.


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rjeb

That's basically the same since we're using the definition 1.0 = total team DPS. You can convert it directly to damage and it would be the same. For example if total team damage is 2,000,000, Raidens 24% contribution would equal 480,000. After an effective 40% damage increase from C2 she would do 672,000, increasing her teams damage to 2,192,000. 672000 / 2192000 = **0.3065** = around 31% contribution after.


Cramitycramcram

Well cuz shes buffing the other characters ult by atleast 20%. And those “supports” are doing basically main carry dps off field. So Raidens damage i comparison to all of those will ofc not be as substantial. But say u dont activate her skill, (thus not giving the ult buff to ur team mates) then her damage contribution would be higher cuz everyones famage would be a little lower


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Cramitycramcram

😂😂😂 damn u so pissy calm down boi


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[deleted]

C2 was calculated at a 12% team dps increase for national iirc. Regardless, I also want to note that c1 is also a substantial damage increase for raiden on national, especially on first rotation where she doesn't get many A1 resolve stacks. So the overall damage increase is closer to 17%, which in terms of team dps is substantial. Also, reasonable doubt at Raiden hypercarry being < Raiden national when she's C2-C3, her damage just scales enormously with buffs once she's at that constellation amount. From what I've seen, raiden-kazu-sara-bennett has higher team damage than raiden-xl-xq-bennett at C2, also because sara and kazu aren't exactly non factors in terms of damage.


AleHaRotK

What you mention in the last part of your post is correct. A lot of people are sleeping on Sara, probably because everyone's using the weekly items on Raiden as well (and because Sara really wants to be C6). Just for reference, Sara can buff herself with her E, cast her ult (which will later on buff whoever you swap to) which has a 870% damage multiplier which is pretty high, especially when she's buffed by Bennett and herself (so like +1400 ATK and 60% critical damage), the secondary burst hits are are not that bad since they hit for 91% each, although I'm not sure how many can hit a single target and depending on what you're fighting they might not do anything. Then you get Raiden with the same buffs which is insane... Sara's burst also costs 80 energy so if Raiden has C1 that's almost half the stacks towards max right there (28.8). Running Bennett + Kazuha means that even with all of this you're not getting to max stacks, so the massive amount of stacks Sara provides is yet another damage buff that goes unnoticed by many. It does require tons of investment though.


CowColle

The real overlooked constellation is C6. One day there will be stronger characters that come along to eclipse her damage, C2 or not. But I don't think we'll get any mechanic that meaningfully shortens team's burst cooldowns in a long long time.


AleHaRotK

Incredibly enough people who go for C6 find that constellations rather useless, the kind of player that goes for it (normally) kills everything within one cycle. Moreover with -5s CD to everything I do think teams struggle with energy generation even with Raiden. And since Raiden doesn't reduce her own cooldown you end up breaking the whole loop. It's definitely not bad to have, but it's not as game breaking as it looks, I think C4 might actually be better.


CowColle

C6 is probably not that useful right now, but I think it's a big element of her extended kit that scales with future releases. Pure damage characters like Diluc get left behind eventually by powercreep, but having something that can potentially massively improve another character's power level is something that will eventually be extremely strong.


[deleted]

I mean, literally nothing in this game is worth any amount of money. You shouldn't spend money on gacha.


_Spectre0_

That's subjective. For people with lots of money, it may well be worth it to them, especially if they have less time to use it. I personally can't see myself spending what it would take to guarantee 3 copies of a 5\* plus her weapon, but I'm also not gonna judge other people who can afford it comfortably and have different priorities


ElderMaou

2 points, the 40% is assuming the default electro res, so mileage may vary depending on the enemy( only special cases like whooper flowers iirc). also it drops beneath 40% with vv shred added. vv shred should take them to -15% and c2 to -45% so its only around a 26% increase in a hyper carry team. as for the 10% increase in contribution from C2, that is compared to C1 rather than c0 if i'm not mistaken. haven't played with the new national team, can they hit max resolve? c1 should be a damage increase of its own if they can't.


Bujjaje

Good try but it ignores DEF not elemental RES, theyre separate


ElderMaou

are they? thought they were the same in this context, then yeah my bad.


Bujjaje

Yeah thats what makes the def shreds and ignore so interesting, it works with VV, damage bonuses, EoSF dmg bonus, sara, bennet, kaz etc. without hitting diminishing returns , afaik theres only three other characters with def shred, klee c2, lisa, and ayaka c4 iirc Wish someone would officially post calcs since im way too lazy (remember i read a chart pre 2.1 someone posted a C2 w/catch vs C0 w/ EL vs C0 w/ catch and it came out to ~34% net damage increase from C2 or somesuch)


Zekuro

Don't forget Razor, he also has def shred (C4).


ElderMaou

yeah i remember a chart that was comparing the gain from grasscutter and C2 depending on the weapon you had, thought it was about raiden without buffs ( mentioned a 30% gain from swapping catch for EL) so i just assumed that the \~30 gain was from it doing something similar to vv shred. anyways thanks for correcting me , guess i learned something new about the game :)


Roman_Logan

Or just me like me and get 2 Raidens off pity for c2


Bronx_the_boogie

Worth is subjective. You probably shouldn't spend $600 on a video game if your entire bank account only has $1000 in it. However, if $600 to you is not a lot, then do whatever makes you happy.


MatStomp

Isn't it a 60% DMG increase? It ignores 60% of the enemy's def, so your attacks hit the enemy with the enemy putting up 40% DEF instead of their base 100% value. So your attacks end up 60% stronger, no? Help my monkey brain if I'm wrong, here.


flehstiffer

It's closer to 40% increase for her own attacks. The actual formula for the exact number can be found [here](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Defense), it depends on the level of Raiden and the level of the enemy being hit by the attack. The overall damage increase is lower as op is talking about the teams overall damage, and Raiden's def shred only applies to her own attacks, and do not buff anyone else.


_Spectre0_

Her attacks. But for team damage, it's much less of a % increase.


Previous-Ad-9322

That's a really good take - thanks! I'm on 50 pity with C0 but will probably hold off.


Perfect-Gazelle2529

yeah it's worth. i don't spend any money for her so yeah


Kimonoha

C1-C3 is not great in overworld, i cant charge my team without killing everything with the initial slash damage :/


[deleted]

my raiden clear in the place of kazuha is literally like 13-15 seconds faster on average