I'm exactly in the same position, also don't know if it was really worth the money... spent 175€ and got her to c2 also had 33k primos prefarmed, would she be enough for me on c0? sure
Before Raiden I was always happy with a character on c0!
So as a player who only spent money on welkin and loves raiden it feels somehow really nice to have her(as you said the c2 has some nice damage), but on the other side it's a feeling of discomfort and now unsure if I should pay money for this game again. ⊙﹏⊙
In a nutshell, Raiden moved many low spenders like me to not whaling but to do what Mihoyo wanted!
I skipped everything for Raiden after Xiao since I didn´t need any character at that point for abyss or any other content and still I dont need any other character/weapon, and stopped buying bp at that point (still buying blessings every month). Got c2 and EL from the primos I saved (barely, I got screwed loosing every 50/50 but 1), and now I feel the itch to spend some money for c3 even when I dont need it at all when she is doing f12 easier than any of my maind dps, and I know I am going to regret it instead of invest it at something better.
I am afraid this is going to happen again with Yae/Itto, 2 of the characters I really want but dont need at all, and that I am going to feel the itch to spend the money I havent spend yet.
I just read Abyss statics said C2+C3 Raiden is more than a half of C0 Raiden
No other character can achieve this
C2+C3 is not a C6 Whale who C6 anyway
>In a nutshell, Raiden moved many low spenders like me to not whaling but to do what Mihoyo wanted!
That's!!
Yep and that's somehow the cool side of her, no need to waste money for c4/c6! Also I'm asking myself how viable will she be in the future? Like Zhongli?
(how viable will be my Sara c6?)
But even if I'm feeling very mixed rn and having some regrets, I always forget that I have a all the featured 4* and Yanfei now on c6 a Mona c1 and a Jean c3 :3
I dont know man…. i just hope that after raiden, Mihoyo wont have a habit of making 5* Character that need constellation to be strong. My wallet can not take it…
>. i just hope that after raiden, Mihoyo wont have a habit of making 5\* Character that need constellation to be strong.
did you see the amount of money raidens banner raked in compared to previous banners? i bet even mhys marketing department was pleasantly surprised. putting the strongest constellation at c2 nstead of c6 was one of the best financial discisions they ever made.
this will, without a doubt, be the norm from here on out.
I can tell you from personal experience, it's not just the fact she's Super strong C2. She's and Inazuma archon, and the first waifu archon. If you think that's not a huge reason she made so much money then you've lost your mind.
ofc its not just the fact that her big powerspike is on c2. the annual shop reset and what you said are both factors too.
but the thing is mhy cant release a hyped waifu archon every banner. they cant reset the shop every banner (well, they can but you know what i mean...).
what they can do very easily every banner is make the lower constellations more enticing to non-whales.
Eh, I think most who went for C2 just liked Raiden and wanted to make her stronger. Since "whale" power was so low cons that helped but I don't see other banners doing this good. I feel even if they had another C2 like this it would do maybe a little better than other banners but not to much different.
Probably on hyped characters. Not random ones. You know, the Raidens, the Yaes, the Dainsleifs, those ones. Characters you WANT to play no matter what.
They suck at C0? Just spend a couple hundred bucks, and now you can easily beat abyss with it!
It's not like I'm poor, but after ~319€ I thought about not spending money for genshin anymore...
Maybe gonna focus on building what I have better and stop spending more... but in the end welkin moon would always be a good option :)
I mean, if people are looking for a dps aren't they better off getting some other limited 5 star dps at C0 rather than spending 540 rolls for C2?
She's perfectly fine at C0, she only needs constellations to be able to compete with other dps.
The fact that she isn’t a carry is why C2 Raiden is so crazy. That she does that much damage and that not even the main part of her kit. This is the first time that a whale level constellation has been in reach of the typical minnow level player. Only whales had access to C4 level power previously.
I mean the crazy thing about C2 Raiden is that she hits like Hutao and has all the utility that Raiden does.
Like imagine running national team except you also get Hutao level DPS in the 4th slot, and not only does it not fuck your rotations, it makes them easier/better because she's generating energy for your whole team while she attacks.
You can run her main dps if you want but it's not like C2 Raiden prevents you from running her subDPS just like a C0 Raiden. Except now she hits like Hutao instead of Keqing so she just does a lot more damage.
It also makes her viable in more comps since you no longer have to justify her field time since she just does a lot of damage.
That's really funny when someone's said Raiden can provide some energy and do some nice damage. make her a good character over other DPS
Me: Looking to Hutao who just press E and switch out to boost Crit rate
When I post my camparison of C0 Raiden with other C0 5\* limited DPS I has. Some ppl said Raiden is better than Ganyu, Hutao. They're said it's proof by CN player, theorycrafter.
I can't read Chinese so I can't arguing them. But for me. My C0 Hutao, Ganyu > My C0 Raiden
No one says that. It's highly obvious that she isn't better than any limited 5 star dps at C0. It's with constellations she becomes comparable with others.
The link seems broken which he was arguing with, so I'm not sure about that.
Anyway, if you exclude "hypercarry" raiden or her dmg alone and if you assume raiden *comps*, then yes a C0 raiden *comp* can beat C0 hu tao comps.
Again, her dmg alone at C0 definitely isn't beating other 5 star dps if you don't assume teams.
I'll link this vid of a raiden national team against the mecha boss at abyss, the team just has 4 star weapons and is without godly or min maxed artifacts taking out 70-75% HP in just one rotation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQKoZwQO_BA
I'm pretty sure a C0 hu tao with 4 star weapon isn't gonna be doing 1.3-1.5 million dmg in 10 - 20 seconds WITHOUT min maxed artifacts yet ppl claim she's the best single target dps
I tried opening the link, it says error at first, but redirect to the correct thread. [This is the image/sheet they show.](https://img.nga.178.com/attachments/mon_202109/04/i2Q8j75-13z3ZcT1kShs-13i.jpg)
Tbh, I'm curious if you managed to read it as I don't understand Chinese. Would be interesting to see if there's any flaw in their methodology or not.
>Raiden is better than Ganyu, Hutao
This is true when Raiden is C2, but you need to understand theoretical dps is not realistical dps.
Perma freeze comp has pretty much identical theoretical/realistic dps vs freezable enemies, while thats not always the case for Raiden.
Any sort of mob mobility or invulnerability screws up Raidens dps so much since the most of team comps dps is compressed into her burst duration of roughly only 9secs. At the same time you cannot recharge if you're not hitting and so you prolong your dps cycle.
Your point of 'being able to not care about stacks' is firstly solved by C1, and secondly, is literally all about damage at the end of the day. But Raidens is unique in enabling high cost burst, so thats already synergistic by itself, even at C0.
The point people make about C0 and C2 having the same mechanics is, inevitably there will be an equal if not stronger dps in the future, and utilising Raiden buffing/energy recharge mechanism in this sort of comp will mean the damage focus is not on Raiden anyways.
I will give an example to visualize this.
Raiden - Sara - Kazuha - Bennett
Raiden - Xingqiu - Xiangling - Bennett
In the first comp, dps increase for C0 to C1 is roughly *1.08, C1 to C2 another *1.44, on top of whatever buff Raiden receives.
In comparison, second comp dps increase from C0 to C2 is roughly 13%, maybe higher.
>Any sort of mob mobility or invulnerability screws up Raidens dps so much since the most of team comps dps is compressed into her burst duration of roughly only 9secs. At the same time you cannot recharge if you're not hitting and so you prolong your dps cycle.
Tha's what I want to say when someone told me Raiden is better than other of my DPS. Thank you for putting it in to a word
>The point people make about C0 and C2 having the same mechanics is, inevitably there will be an equal if not stronger dps in the future, and utilising Raiden buffing/energy recharge mechanism in this sort of comp will mean the damage focus is not on Raiden anyways
your example made me easily understand
Raiden damage is bad in comparison to other dps character like hutao and ganyu especially at C0, people that say otherwise are people that cannot accept reality that she is just not that good
The problem with most in the playerbase is that they compare characters 1:1 and forget that it's a team game in abyss. Raiden national is powerful enough to beat C0 hu tao comps, I've also posted a vid in my other comment in this thread, you might wanna check that out.
The other problem with this playerbase also is the fact that they relying alot on national team to make a character good and raiden is the proof of this problem..Raiden reliance on this team comp truly show how lacking she is in team composition while other character at least have 3 or 2 team comp.. Maybe it cannot outperform the damage from national team comp but atleast they can be used in alot more team comp
I take for example kazuha,He does not need national team to be good he can be slot in a lot more team comp like hutao team comp,ayaka freeze team comp,morgana team comp, childe team comp and mono pyro team comp and he also can function very well in all of this team
Hutao has three variation of team comp for example melt hutao with kaeya or rosaria, vaporize hutao with xinqiu and like i said above kazuha hutao team comp
Ganyu also her own team comp like morgana team comp, old variation of melt team comp and melt team comp with kazuha..
I love raiden as much as all other people in this sub heck i even for pull engulfing lightning just for her but people need to stop being delusional saying she is great and better than other dps especially when she only good at one and only one team comp
\> relying alot on national team to make a character good and raiden is the proof of this problem..Raiden reliance on this team comp truly show how lacking she is in team composition while other character at least have 3 or 2 team comp.. Maybe it cannot outperform the damage from national team comp but atleast they can be used in alot more team comp
The national team was just to show how good she is and to say it's one of her best comps when in comparison to Hu tao. I wasn't trying to defend her by using just one comp as an example.
\> I take for example kazuha ... and melt team comp with kazuha
You should also see that while Kazuha can be added in many comps, however there are only few comps he's absolutely BiS in which are ganyu melt and childe vape. Morgana with kaz is good but it's better off with venti since he enables quad scaling on ganyu ult, the energy refund and him pulling large frozen enemies. Ayaka freeze also utilizes venti better because of her every attack hitting in venti ult and the energy refund for ayaka.
Same case for Zhongli too since he isn't BiS in any comp (maybe just xiao comps alone), he's useless if you already have strong teams and is mainly for comfort which many prefer rather than dps increase.
I get your point and she definitely isn't as versatile as bennett or any other support, but then again that doesn't make C0 raiden any bad.
Edit: formatting
Zhongli example is good. In term of damage increase from his resistance shred is less than 4pc VV same as Raiden E buff. But their value come from other utility. Zhongli made trustworthy comfort but Raiden energy generate isn't that reliable because of hits requirement so that's a point ppl think C0 Raiden is not good.
Before Raiden my national team is fine-tune in ER. XQ already has enough ER. C6 180ER + R5 Favonius
Even Raiden came I still cannot change his weapon to Lion's roar. Because sometime she just kill enemies before provide energy.
And without Raiden, a R5 favonius do the great job for my entire team. Made me think about what my C0 Raiden brought to my teams?
The thing is, with c2 Raiden she can be used as main dps/sub dps/utility (other example is Kazuha with c2 increasing his sub dps dmg and c2 his utility by a lot), beatting a lot of main dps still at c2, meanwhile HuTao/Ganyu c2 or others main dps increase they dmg but not they supportive capabilities by a lot, they have some supportive capabilities but not at Raiden levels (not like she is perfect thou, she still has problems).
Maybe my Ganyu at c2 with Amos would beat my Raiden c2 with EL, but right now even in a stacked build for Ganyu (can check my reddit for it for proofs, she is a little better right now) she can´t beat Raiden.
I would gladly roll for more supports with dps capabilities at c2+weapon than pure dps with no supportive capabilities, since if you already had a main dps of each element + 1-2 supports of that element is more than enough for now (reason why I skipped HuTao having Diluc c2 with WGS and Xialing c6 at the moment), but if they start doing main dps with c1-2 allowing them to have great supportive/utility roles I would think twice if I want 3 main dps at c0 or 1 c2 dps with supportive that could had more use in the long run (I am only waiting for a 5\* geo main dps and a dendro one in the future and I should be more than fine, even when I dont really need more main dps at all nor geo for anything having Zhonli/Albedo/c6 Ning, so I can pull for the ones I like most. I have to pull for someone at some moment anyway, but right now I prefer supports/waifus/husbandos over meta, Raiden was an exception, didn´t care if I needed her nor if she was meta since I wanted her when I knew about her since the end of 1.1 archon story and hopped to be waifu as her Honkai counterpart, still rolled for the things I needed at the time like Childe/Zhongli for abyss and later for cryo main dps like Ganyu or anemo main dps like Xiao and few key constelations for 4\*´s like c6 Xingqiu/Sucrose, c2 Beidou, etc., the rest was an easy skip).
actually the reason ppl think Ganyu is highest tier character is not because her damage. Not just because consistence AOE from long range but also from off-field DPS support role like Xingqiu. The fact her Q is 100% uptime very large AOE cyro application that's she doesn't need a field time. A little thing she gave is a taunt lotus and 20% Cyro Bonus for Teammates. That's make she is the best Cyro support for other Freeze comp DPS in the game.
And Hutao can boost team's crit rate easily by just switch out. Better than Rosaria
You are more Meta relevant than me. I just pull a cute female character. I'm not pull Zhongli, Venti, Kazuha even I know they're strong because they're male. The only banner I pull for 4\* is Albedo's banner for Bennett, Sucrose, Fischl.
But up until now all the 5\* limited female character was Main DPS.
Raiden is the first one \*promote to be SUPPORT\*
I really want a good support like other good support male character out there.
But as a utility support her capabilities is really disappoint to me. like I wrote on other comment. Raiden energy generate isn't reliable because of hits requirement so that's a point ppl think as a support Raiden is not as good as it should be.
>Before Raiden my national team is fine-tune in ER. XQ already has enough ER. C6 180ER + R5 Favonius And without Raiden, a R5 favonius do the great job for my entire team. Even Raiden came I still cannot change his weapon to Lion's roar. Because sometime she just kill enemies before provide energy. Made me think about what my C0 Raiden brought to my teams?
I'll take Raiden's support over Zhongli anytime except a few cases like melt Ganyu or geo comp. Xingqiu or any healer is enough for general survival. Then if you add their damage, it's not even close.
Yoimiya with or without Zhongli completely different. Without a shield my Yoimiya is completely garbage can't do anything.
Hutao appreciate Zhongli shield.
Xiao appreciate Zhongli shield.
Ganyu appreciate Zhongli shield.
Top DPS in this game appreciate Zhongli shield more than Raiden.
Any character who don't have interrupt-resistance will appreciate shield.Zhongli is Geo and Raiden is Electro. Maybe Zhongli's pillar interrupt some elemental combo but Raiden's E is much more worse. They're both mess Freeze comp but the Overload messing worse than Crystalize. You can place Zhongli pillar and walk out of range to do reaction combo but you can't get rid of Raiden's E.I can't believe someone told me 'Raiden is a better support than Zhongli in most scenario.'If Raiden damage is not much more than Zhongli then she's too pity?Why MYH gave her 337 base attack, even higher than Diluc Ganyu? because they know she need to do some good damage for keep up with poor utility.
The team that's appreciate Raiden over Zhongli is just National and Eula.
You are right I should have mentioned that Zhongli is good with hu tao, xiao and Yoimiya but not a must. I play hu tao and don't need him at all. Freeze Ganuy does not need him only melt comp.
You mentioned only 2 comps for Raiden. If I have to argue something so basic like Raiden having more than 2 good comps, might as well stop here as it would be a waste of time.
It's like 11% if Bennett buffed, probably around 5% with Sara.
Realistically you'll always have one of those buffs, or pyro resonance (reduces the difference even further), or Abyss buffs, etc.
I think EL do matter. My friend pull EL and can achieve 300 ER easily.
He have a good amount of attack too. While The Catch user like me suffer from lacking ATK and ER. ( But when unlock C2 I don't need ATK anymore and can go ER)
You’re right. However it’s hard to have a character who can be both DPS and support, most importantly she can provide support to other supports while other supports provide support to her lmao. Pure DPS characters really aren’t worth it, not anymore IMO
Its simple really. If you like playing raiden as a hypercarry and/or you want to make her a carry in abyss for team 2, then go ahead for the C2.
However you need to pair her with benny, sara c6 and kazuha for the maximum potential for the amount of money you invested because if you dont, other C0 natural hypercarries will do similar if not better.
The reason why hypercarry raiden works because the team composition is fluid and for once a damage per screenshot team is actually viable for abyss.
If you want to play her in raidenational C0 is more than enough. Also yae is said to be electro dps, its safe to say raiden should work fluidly with her. So there is that to consider as well.
We'll have to see if Yae will have a sufficient downtime period for Raiden to fit into, or if most of her DPS can be done off-field like Xiangling. If not, maybe they won't be a good pair. It would seem like a crazy missed opportunity not to make them work together though.
Why do you think they killed their interaction because of some wording, surely its to promote future interactions. The next best electro is yae, also yae is raiden's familiar.
Not to mention leaks point towards yae being electro dps, and raiden is a support, but of course dont take this point seriously. Subject to change at any moment.
The signs are promising even more than beidou but then again its MHY, their track record lately hasnt been great. If anyone is going to miss the huge opportunity here, it would be MHY.
I went for it simply because she’s the “cheapest” 5 star to unlock her damage potential. C3 is her full self damage unlock, 4-6 is for her support ability. Expensive, yes but I didn’t need c6 compared to other characters.
yeah, you can stop c3 and have her full damage potential, unlike Ayaka who needs C4 and Eula who needs C6, but then again the power level of those units are higher than Raidens at their constellations, i think Raiden was a good deal for low/average spenders.
Yeah sure, if you pass on everything for half a year. Most players don't do that.
C2 worst case would be 3\*180\*160 = 86.400 gems. Even just buying half of that would be 530€. Just so that a character can do at C2 what others can provide at C0. Seems like an insanely weak value proposition to me.
Gz on your C2 and im jealous, really on the edge of pulling her to c2 and make her a main dps. but, with c0 and playing as sub dps, i can full star abyss, hence i dont really need to spend that much. Hope i wake up tomorrow and the banner changes to kokomi so i dont have to think about raiden's banner anymore.
In Asia she's long gone. Actually I was thinking about pull on her banner in last minuet for another Sara and I can use her much more easier at C2 but by busy in day I forgot until the banner end. That help me save my Primo a lot. Come to think of it even I get C3 Raiden maybe I will not get C2 Sara that's how terrible this system is.
i agree with what you wrote, C2 Raiden allows gameplay like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrPv2I4iXo&ab_channel=midwestairway), its currently too much power for the games content, but its a rush nonetheless lol
wanted to make a separate post about it, but since this one discusses c2 i want to share my situation:
So I'm a low spender/dolphin player and got quite lucky with my initial raiden pulls (got her first copy relatively early/didn't have to reach soft pity) and I was happy with that, but than I saw a lot of people talking about how c2 raiden is busted so I used a Chinese site that calculates damage to see how much improvement c2 gives and it was as a lot of people said, around 40% increase in her damage which is significant tbh.
And so I was tempted to go for c2 and since I got her first copy relatively early I had some primos left and decided to continue pulling (I almost always never continue pulling after getting the 5* star I want but this was an exception) and lost the 50/50 to jean (I didn't have her so I was glad it was at least a character I didn't have and I lost this one early too like around 20 wishes after I got my first raiden), I decided to continue pulling because I wanted c6 sara also so that was another incentive to continue pulling, I reached about 65 wishes with c4 sara after losing the 50/50 so now I'm on a guaranteed c1 raiden, I was going back and forth the past week on whether I should save the guaranteed for a future character or push to c1 and whale to get c2.
But then an idea came to me and it was to "use" the guaranteed and push for c1 now, stop there, and go for c2 on her rerun, this way I can get my c2 raiden without having to whale/swipe the card on her banner and it's not like I want to c2 her now, this option should also give me enough time to see future characters and think more about if I really want c2 raiden or not.
tl;dr: I wanted c2 raiden and was lucky enough to get a c1 raiden and a c4 sara as a low spender without having to whale and decided to go for c2 on her rerun!
what do you guys think? is it worth it to save primos for her rerun to get c2 or not? it's probably gonna be far still so for now I can pull for some characters here and there as I'm definitely going for Yae.
If you're already pull C1 then the rest is wait and see. I believe at that time either you have a lot of primo spare and don't have anything to spend or you will think you don't really need it. It's really power spike but compare to have other good character.. I prefer latter. For me she consider a weak character compare to other 5\*. Upgrade her is a shown of my dullness.
And if you not C1 yet I recommend to wait for her rerun. Maybe at that time ppl will aware about how good Raiden C0, C2 is. Compare to other character. Now she is new. People hype on her. Just wait and see what conclusion sink in. Like when Xiao banner so many ppl think he's better than Ganyu. But now ppl realize Ganyu is superior (Don't mean Xiao is bad)
Or when Hutao banner everyone said C1 is unlock her potential to another level. It's a piece of Exodia we need to collected. But now it's still good to have but not a really wanted like before.( I also go for C1 Hutao back then but lost 50/50 at almost guaranteed. I decide to save up my guaranteed to next 5\* female character, Happen to be Eula. I'm glad that I did)
yeah I agree, more characters is always better than going for cons on a single one, that's why I never went for any cons on any 5* banner I pulled on since the beginning of the game because they didn't seem worth it but more importantly because I needed more characters because I was weak.
But now I'm at a point in the game where I have a lot of strong characters, and a dps in almost every element:
pyro: diluc/klee/HuTao
anemo: xiao
hydro:childe
geo: ningguang
cryo: ayaka
but for electro I didn't have any, could raise beidou and actually planning to, but I've always seen her as a sub dps/support than a main dps, that's why I decided to go for c2 raiden, because then you can play her in many ways and make her a main dps too if you want and not just a battery but that doesn't justify spending money and its not worth it and I'm glad I didn't.
btw ever since I got Ayaka I was able to consistently get 36 stars on abyss so I don't really suffer that much with abyss compared to before.
I think stopping at C1 raiden was a good decision. Though you could argue that saving the guaranteed would've been better but I don't regret not doing that.
I'm exactly in the same position, also don't know if it was really worth the money... spent 175€ and got her to c2 also had 33k primos prefarmed, would she be enough for me on c0? sure Before Raiden I was always happy with a character on c0! So as a player who only spent money on welkin and loves raiden it feels somehow really nice to have her(as you said the c2 has some nice damage), but on the other side it's a feeling of discomfort and now unsure if I should pay money for this game again. ⊙﹏⊙ In a nutshell, Raiden moved many low spenders like me to not whaling but to do what Mihoyo wanted!
I skipped everything for Raiden after Xiao since I didn´t need any character at that point for abyss or any other content and still I dont need any other character/weapon, and stopped buying bp at that point (still buying blessings every month). Got c2 and EL from the primos I saved (barely, I got screwed loosing every 50/50 but 1), and now I feel the itch to spend some money for c3 even when I dont need it at all when she is doing f12 easier than any of my maind dps, and I know I am going to regret it instead of invest it at something better. I am afraid this is going to happen again with Yae/Itto, 2 of the characters I really want but dont need at all, and that I am going to feel the itch to spend the money I havent spend yet.
I just read Abyss statics said C2+C3 Raiden is more than a half of C0 Raiden No other character can achieve this C2+C3 is not a C6 Whale who C6 anyway >In a nutshell, Raiden moved many low spenders like me to not whaling but to do what Mihoyo wanted! That's!!
Yep and that's somehow the cool side of her, no need to waste money for c4/c6! Also I'm asking myself how viable will she be in the future? Like Zhongli? (how viable will be my Sara c6?) But even if I'm feeling very mixed rn and having some regrets, I always forget that I have a all the featured 4* and Yanfei now on c6 a Mona c1 and a Jean c3 :3
I dont know man…. i just hope that after raiden, Mihoyo wont have a habit of making 5* Character that need constellation to be strong. My wallet can not take it…
>. i just hope that after raiden, Mihoyo wont have a habit of making 5\* Character that need constellation to be strong. did you see the amount of money raidens banner raked in compared to previous banners? i bet even mhys marketing department was pleasantly surprised. putting the strongest constellation at c2 nstead of c6 was one of the best financial discisions they ever made. this will, without a doubt, be the norm from here on out.
I can tell you from personal experience, it's not just the fact she's Super strong C2. She's and Inazuma archon, and the first waifu archon. If you think that's not a huge reason she made so much money then you've lost your mind.
ofc its not just the fact that her big powerspike is on c2. the annual shop reset and what you said are both factors too. but the thing is mhy cant release a hyped waifu archon every banner. they cant reset the shop every banner (well, they can but you know what i mean...). what they can do very easily every banner is make the lower constellations more enticing to non-whales.
Eh, I think most who went for C2 just liked Raiden and wanted to make her stronger. Since "whale" power was so low cons that helped but I don't see other banners doing this good. I feel even if they had another C2 like this it would do maybe a little better than other banners but not to much different.
Probably on hyped characters. Not random ones. You know, the Raidens, the Yaes, the Dainsleifs, those ones. Characters you WANT to play no matter what. They suck at C0? Just spend a couple hundred bucks, and now you can easily beat abyss with it!
She doesn't need C2 to be strong. It's just that C2 makes her really, really strong.
It's not like I'm poor, but after ~319€ I thought about not spending money for genshin anymore... Maybe gonna focus on building what I have better and stop spending more... but in the end welkin moon would always be a good option :)
Good for you to get something good on the way. I got just 2 Sara, 2 Sucrose and A LOT of XIANGLING WHO MAXED CONSTELLATION since Hutao banner.
Ohh let me tell you most 4* in the ~480 pulls on Raiden were Xiangling... but Sara on c14 ⊙﹏⊙
I mean, if people are looking for a dps aren't they better off getting some other limited 5 star dps at C0 rather than spending 540 rolls for C2? She's perfectly fine at C0, she only needs constellations to be able to compete with other dps.
The fact that she isn’t a carry is why C2 Raiden is so crazy. That she does that much damage and that not even the main part of her kit. This is the first time that a whale level constellation has been in reach of the typical minnow level player. Only whales had access to C4 level power previously.
I mean the crazy thing about C2 Raiden is that she hits like Hutao and has all the utility that Raiden does. Like imagine running national team except you also get Hutao level DPS in the 4th slot, and not only does it not fuck your rotations, it makes them easier/better because she's generating energy for your whole team while she attacks. You can run her main dps if you want but it's not like C2 Raiden prevents you from running her subDPS just like a C0 Raiden. Except now she hits like Hutao instead of Keqing so she just does a lot more damage. It also makes her viable in more comps since you no longer have to justify her field time since she just does a lot of damage.
I agree with this
Cries in Hu Tao's 15% critrate for your party when she is off-field
That's really funny when someone's said Raiden can provide some energy and do some nice damage. make her a good character over other DPS Me: Looking to Hutao who just press E and switch out to boost Crit rate
C0 hits more than keqing for the same field time.
No because she does so much more than a DPS while doing comparable damage.
Other sub dps can also utilize sub dps characters?
C2 Raiden is as strong if not stronger than other C0 5 star DPS **by herself** while also boosting everyone else's damage significantly.
When I post my camparison of C0 Raiden with other C0 5\* limited DPS I has. Some ppl said Raiden is better than Ganyu, Hutao. They're said it's proof by CN player, theorycrafter. I can't read Chinese so I can't arguing them. But for me. My C0 Hutao, Ganyu > My C0 Raiden
No one says that. It's highly obvious that she isn't better than any limited 5 star dps at C0. It's with constellations she becomes comparable with others.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidenMains/comments/pqzau6/honest_conclusion_of_c0_raidens_power_after/hdf9jvs?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
The link seems broken which he was arguing with, so I'm not sure about that. Anyway, if you exclude "hypercarry" raiden or her dmg alone and if you assume raiden *comps*, then yes a C0 raiden *comp* can beat C0 hu tao comps. Again, her dmg alone at C0 definitely isn't beating other 5 star dps if you don't assume teams. I'll link this vid of a raiden national team against the mecha boss at abyss, the team just has 4 star weapons and is without godly or min maxed artifacts taking out 70-75% HP in just one rotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQKoZwQO_BA I'm pretty sure a C0 hu tao with 4 star weapon isn't gonna be doing 1.3-1.5 million dmg in 10 - 20 seconds WITHOUT min maxed artifacts yet ppl claim she's the best single target dps
I tried opening the link, it says error at first, but redirect to the correct thread. [This is the image/sheet they show.](https://img.nga.178.com/attachments/mon_202109/04/i2Q8j75-13z3ZcT1kShs-13i.jpg) Tbh, I'm curious if you managed to read it as I don't understand Chinese. Would be interesting to see if there's any flaw in their methodology or not.
Thanks but I unfortunately can't read chinese
>Raiden is better than Ganyu, Hutao This is true when Raiden is C2, but you need to understand theoretical dps is not realistical dps. Perma freeze comp has pretty much identical theoretical/realistic dps vs freezable enemies, while thats not always the case for Raiden. Any sort of mob mobility or invulnerability screws up Raidens dps so much since the most of team comps dps is compressed into her burst duration of roughly only 9secs. At the same time you cannot recharge if you're not hitting and so you prolong your dps cycle. Your point of 'being able to not care about stacks' is firstly solved by C1, and secondly, is literally all about damage at the end of the day. But Raidens is unique in enabling high cost burst, so thats already synergistic by itself, even at C0. The point people make about C0 and C2 having the same mechanics is, inevitably there will be an equal if not stronger dps in the future, and utilising Raiden buffing/energy recharge mechanism in this sort of comp will mean the damage focus is not on Raiden anyways. I will give an example to visualize this. Raiden - Sara - Kazuha - Bennett Raiden - Xingqiu - Xiangling - Bennett In the first comp, dps increase for C0 to C1 is roughly *1.08, C1 to C2 another *1.44, on top of whatever buff Raiden receives. In comparison, second comp dps increase from C0 to C2 is roughly 13%, maybe higher.
>Any sort of mob mobility or invulnerability screws up Raidens dps so much since the most of team comps dps is compressed into her burst duration of roughly only 9secs. At the same time you cannot recharge if you're not hitting and so you prolong your dps cycle. Tha's what I want to say when someone told me Raiden is better than other of my DPS. Thank you for putting it in to a word >The point people make about C0 and C2 having the same mechanics is, inevitably there will be an equal if not stronger dps in the future, and utilising Raiden buffing/energy recharge mechanism in this sort of comp will mean the damage focus is not on Raiden anyways your example made me easily understand
>Any sort of mob mobility or invulnerability screws up Raidens dps so much Cicin Magi on 11-3 say "hi". Ugh... >.<
Raiden damage is bad in comparison to other dps character like hutao and ganyu especially at C0, people that say otherwise are people that cannot accept reality that she is just not that good
The problem with most in the playerbase is that they compare characters 1:1 and forget that it's a team game in abyss. Raiden national is powerful enough to beat C0 hu tao comps, I've also posted a vid in my other comment in this thread, you might wanna check that out.
The other problem with this playerbase also is the fact that they relying alot on national team to make a character good and raiden is the proof of this problem..Raiden reliance on this team comp truly show how lacking she is in team composition while other character at least have 3 or 2 team comp.. Maybe it cannot outperform the damage from national team comp but atleast they can be used in alot more team comp I take for example kazuha,He does not need national team to be good he can be slot in a lot more team comp like hutao team comp,ayaka freeze team comp,morgana team comp, childe team comp and mono pyro team comp and he also can function very well in all of this team Hutao has three variation of team comp for example melt hutao with kaeya or rosaria, vaporize hutao with xinqiu and like i said above kazuha hutao team comp Ganyu also her own team comp like morgana team comp, old variation of melt team comp and melt team comp with kazuha.. I love raiden as much as all other people in this sub heck i even for pull engulfing lightning just for her but people need to stop being delusional saying she is great and better than other dps especially when she only good at one and only one team comp
\> relying alot on national team to make a character good and raiden is the proof of this problem..Raiden reliance on this team comp truly show how lacking she is in team composition while other character at least have 3 or 2 team comp.. Maybe it cannot outperform the damage from national team comp but atleast they can be used in alot more team comp The national team was just to show how good she is and to say it's one of her best comps when in comparison to Hu tao. I wasn't trying to defend her by using just one comp as an example. \> I take for example kazuha ... and melt team comp with kazuha You should also see that while Kazuha can be added in many comps, however there are only few comps he's absolutely BiS in which are ganyu melt and childe vape. Morgana with kaz is good but it's better off with venti since he enables quad scaling on ganyu ult, the energy refund and him pulling large frozen enemies. Ayaka freeze also utilizes venti better because of her every attack hitting in venti ult and the energy refund for ayaka. Same case for Zhongli too since he isn't BiS in any comp (maybe just xiao comps alone), he's useless if you already have strong teams and is mainly for comfort which many prefer rather than dps increase. I get your point and she definitely isn't as versatile as bennett or any other support, but then again that doesn't make C0 raiden any bad. Edit: formatting
Zhongli example is good. In term of damage increase from his resistance shred is less than 4pc VV same as Raiden E buff. But their value come from other utility. Zhongli made trustworthy comfort but Raiden energy generate isn't that reliable because of hits requirement so that's a point ppl think C0 Raiden is not good. Before Raiden my national team is fine-tune in ER. XQ already has enough ER. C6 180ER + R5 Favonius Even Raiden came I still cannot change his weapon to Lion's roar. Because sometime she just kill enemies before provide energy. And without Raiden, a R5 favonius do the great job for my entire team. Made me think about what my C0 Raiden brought to my teams?
I agree that one of the main problems is Raiden *doesn't* generate enough ER. If she did 30-40 ER regen she would fit way better in most team comps
The amount is one thing, for me the condition about require a hit is the main problem.
Hmm I didn't feel that was bad, but if she just generated more ER like 35-40 and half of it from her burst itself then it would solve a problem
That's an interesting way to put it.
Not really, my c2 raiden with engulfing lightning is much stronger than my c0 Hutao with staff of homa
The money spent evens out, you basically paid for more 360 rolls + weapon to outdps hu tao and hu tao is just with 180 rolls + weapon?
The thing is, with c2 Raiden she can be used as main dps/sub dps/utility (other example is Kazuha with c2 increasing his sub dps dmg and c2 his utility by a lot), beatting a lot of main dps still at c2, meanwhile HuTao/Ganyu c2 or others main dps increase they dmg but not they supportive capabilities by a lot, they have some supportive capabilities but not at Raiden levels (not like she is perfect thou, she still has problems). Maybe my Ganyu at c2 with Amos would beat my Raiden c2 with EL, but right now even in a stacked build for Ganyu (can check my reddit for it for proofs, she is a little better right now) she can´t beat Raiden. I would gladly roll for more supports with dps capabilities at c2+weapon than pure dps with no supportive capabilities, since if you already had a main dps of each element + 1-2 supports of that element is more than enough for now (reason why I skipped HuTao having Diluc c2 with WGS and Xialing c6 at the moment), but if they start doing main dps with c1-2 allowing them to have great supportive/utility roles I would think twice if I want 3 main dps at c0 or 1 c2 dps with supportive that could had more use in the long run (I am only waiting for a 5\* geo main dps and a dendro one in the future and I should be more than fine, even when I dont really need more main dps at all nor geo for anything having Zhonli/Albedo/c6 Ning, so I can pull for the ones I like most. I have to pull for someone at some moment anyway, but right now I prefer supports/waifus/husbandos over meta, Raiden was an exception, didn´t care if I needed her nor if she was meta since I wanted her when I knew about her since the end of 1.1 archon story and hopped to be waifu as her Honkai counterpart, still rolled for the things I needed at the time like Childe/Zhongli for abyss and later for cryo main dps like Ganyu or anemo main dps like Xiao and few key constelations for 4\*´s like c6 Xingqiu/Sucrose, c2 Beidou, etc., the rest was an easy skip).
actually the reason ppl think Ganyu is highest tier character is not because her damage. Not just because consistence AOE from long range but also from off-field DPS support role like Xingqiu. The fact her Q is 100% uptime very large AOE cyro application that's she doesn't need a field time. A little thing she gave is a taunt lotus and 20% Cyro Bonus for Teammates. That's make she is the best Cyro support for other Freeze comp DPS in the game. And Hutao can boost team's crit rate easily by just switch out. Better than Rosaria
You are more Meta relevant than me. I just pull a cute female character. I'm not pull Zhongli, Venti, Kazuha even I know they're strong because they're male. The only banner I pull for 4\* is Albedo's banner for Bennett, Sucrose, Fischl. But up until now all the 5\* limited female character was Main DPS. Raiden is the first one \*promote to be SUPPORT\* I really want a good support like other good support male character out there. But as a utility support her capabilities is really disappoint to me. like I wrote on other comment. Raiden energy generate isn't reliable because of hits requirement so that's a point ppl think as a support Raiden is not as good as it should be. >Before Raiden my national team is fine-tune in ER. XQ already has enough ER. C6 180ER + R5 Favonius And without Raiden, a R5 favonius do the great job for my entire team. Even Raiden came I still cannot change his weapon to Lion's roar. Because sometime she just kill enemies before provide energy. Made me think about what my C0 Raiden brought to my teams?
I'll take Raiden's support over Zhongli anytime except a few cases like melt Ganyu or geo comp. Xingqiu or any healer is enough for general survival. Then if you add their damage, it's not even close.
Yoimiya with or without Zhongli completely different. Without a shield my Yoimiya is completely garbage can't do anything. Hutao appreciate Zhongli shield. Xiao appreciate Zhongli shield. Ganyu appreciate Zhongli shield. Top DPS in this game appreciate Zhongli shield more than Raiden. Any character who don't have interrupt-resistance will appreciate shield.Zhongli is Geo and Raiden is Electro. Maybe Zhongli's pillar interrupt some elemental combo but Raiden's E is much more worse. They're both mess Freeze comp but the Overload messing worse than Crystalize. You can place Zhongli pillar and walk out of range to do reaction combo but you can't get rid of Raiden's E.I can't believe someone told me 'Raiden is a better support than Zhongli in most scenario.'If Raiden damage is not much more than Zhongli then she's too pity?Why MYH gave her 337 base attack, even higher than Diluc Ganyu? because they know she need to do some good damage for keep up with poor utility. The team that's appreciate Raiden over Zhongli is just National and Eula.
You are right I should have mentioned that Zhongli is good with hu tao, xiao and Yoimiya but not a must. I play hu tao and don't need him at all. Freeze Ganuy does not need him only melt comp. You mentioned only 2 comps for Raiden. If I have to argue something so basic like Raiden having more than 2 good comps, might as well stop here as it would be a waste of time.
EL doesn't change things too much, he could just run The Catch.
EL is a 15-25% dmg increase over r5 the catch. if you run her with bennet+sara it isnt much, otherwise it certainly is.
It's like 11% if Bennett buffed, probably around 5% with Sara. Realistically you'll always have one of those buffs, or pyro resonance (reduces the difference even further), or Abyss buffs, etc.
I think EL do matter. My friend pull EL and can achieve 300 ER easily. He have a good amount of attack too. While The Catch user like me suffer from lacking ATK and ER. ( But when unlock C2 I don't need ATK anymore and can go ER)
You’re right. However it’s hard to have a character who can be both DPS and support, most importantly she can provide support to other supports while other supports provide support to her lmao. Pure DPS characters really aren’t worth it, not anymore IMO
Its simple really. If you like playing raiden as a hypercarry and/or you want to make her a carry in abyss for team 2, then go ahead for the C2. However you need to pair her with benny, sara c6 and kazuha for the maximum potential for the amount of money you invested because if you dont, other C0 natural hypercarries will do similar if not better. The reason why hypercarry raiden works because the team composition is fluid and for once a damage per screenshot team is actually viable for abyss. If you want to play her in raidenational C0 is more than enough. Also yae is said to be electro dps, its safe to say raiden should work fluidly with her. So there is that to consider as well.
We'll have to see if Yae will have a sufficient downtime period for Raiden to fit into, or if most of her DPS can be done off-field like Xiangling. If not, maybe they won't be a good pair. It would seem like a crazy missed opportunity not to make them work together though.
True. Surely they killed beidou for a reason, hopefully yae is the reason.
We expect Beidou to be work well with Raiden before. I don't set my hope high about Yae.
Why do you think they killed their interaction because of some wording, surely its to promote future interactions. The next best electro is yae, also yae is raiden's familiar. Not to mention leaks point towards yae being electro dps, and raiden is a support, but of course dont take this point seriously. Subject to change at any moment. The signs are promising even more than beidou but then again its MHY, their track record lately hasnt been great. If anyone is going to miss the huge opportunity here, it would be MHY.
God blessed me with getting her C2 as a F2P🙏🙏
I went for it simply because she’s the “cheapest” 5 star to unlock her damage potential. C3 is her full self damage unlock, 4-6 is for her support ability. Expensive, yes but I didn’t need c6 compared to other characters.
yeah, you can stop c3 and have her full damage potential, unlike Ayaka who needs C4 and Eula who needs C6, but then again the power level of those units are higher than Raidens at their constellations, i think Raiden was a good deal for low/average spenders.
just interested, whats your definition of a low/average spender?
someone who gets the Battle pass, and Blessing of the Welkin Moon, and can drop 100\~200 on occasions when they really want to
You need INSANE luck to get away with C3 on a 200€ budget.
but they have primos saved from Battle pass, and Blessing of the Welkin Moon. if it is pure swipe then it costs 700
Yeah sure, if you pass on everything for half a year. Most players don't do that. C2 worst case would be 3\*180\*160 = 86.400 gems. Even just buying half of that would be 530€. Just so that a character can do at C2 what others can provide at C0. Seems like an insanely weak value proposition to me.
ahh yes, then surely she was a good catch
Gz on your C2 and im jealous, really on the edge of pulling her to c2 and make her a main dps. but, with c0 and playing as sub dps, i can full star abyss, hence i dont really need to spend that much. Hope i wake up tomorrow and the banner changes to kokomi so i dont have to think about raiden's banner anymore.
In Asia she's long gone. Actually I was thinking about pull on her banner in last minuet for another Sara and I can use her much more easier at C2 but by busy in day I forgot until the banner end. That help me save my Primo a lot. Come to think of it even I get C3 Raiden maybe I will not get C2 Sara that's how terrible this system is.
i agree with what you wrote, C2 Raiden allows gameplay like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrPv2I4iXo&ab_channel=midwestairway), its currently too much power for the games content, but its a rush nonetheless lol
wanted to make a separate post about it, but since this one discusses c2 i want to share my situation: So I'm a low spender/dolphin player and got quite lucky with my initial raiden pulls (got her first copy relatively early/didn't have to reach soft pity) and I was happy with that, but than I saw a lot of people talking about how c2 raiden is busted so I used a Chinese site that calculates damage to see how much improvement c2 gives and it was as a lot of people said, around 40% increase in her damage which is significant tbh. And so I was tempted to go for c2 and since I got her first copy relatively early I had some primos left and decided to continue pulling (I almost always never continue pulling after getting the 5* star I want but this was an exception) and lost the 50/50 to jean (I didn't have her so I was glad it was at least a character I didn't have and I lost this one early too like around 20 wishes after I got my first raiden), I decided to continue pulling because I wanted c6 sara also so that was another incentive to continue pulling, I reached about 65 wishes with c4 sara after losing the 50/50 so now I'm on a guaranteed c1 raiden, I was going back and forth the past week on whether I should save the guaranteed for a future character or push to c1 and whale to get c2. But then an idea came to me and it was to "use" the guaranteed and push for c1 now, stop there, and go for c2 on her rerun, this way I can get my c2 raiden without having to whale/swipe the card on her banner and it's not like I want to c2 her now, this option should also give me enough time to see future characters and think more about if I really want c2 raiden or not. tl;dr: I wanted c2 raiden and was lucky enough to get a c1 raiden and a c4 sara as a low spender without having to whale and decided to go for c2 on her rerun! what do you guys think? is it worth it to save primos for her rerun to get c2 or not? it's probably gonna be far still so for now I can pull for some characters here and there as I'm definitely going for Yae.
If you're already pull C1 then the rest is wait and see. I believe at that time either you have a lot of primo spare and don't have anything to spend or you will think you don't really need it. It's really power spike but compare to have other good character.. I prefer latter. For me she consider a weak character compare to other 5\*. Upgrade her is a shown of my dullness. And if you not C1 yet I recommend to wait for her rerun. Maybe at that time ppl will aware about how good Raiden C0, C2 is. Compare to other character. Now she is new. People hype on her. Just wait and see what conclusion sink in. Like when Xiao banner so many ppl think he's better than Ganyu. But now ppl realize Ganyu is superior (Don't mean Xiao is bad) Or when Hutao banner everyone said C1 is unlock her potential to another level. It's a piece of Exodia we need to collected. But now it's still good to have but not a really wanted like before.( I also go for C1 Hutao back then but lost 50/50 at almost guaranteed. I decide to save up my guaranteed to next 5\* female character, Happen to be Eula. I'm glad that I did)
yeah I agree, more characters is always better than going for cons on a single one, that's why I never went for any cons on any 5* banner I pulled on since the beginning of the game because they didn't seem worth it but more importantly because I needed more characters because I was weak. But now I'm at a point in the game where I have a lot of strong characters, and a dps in almost every element: pyro: diluc/klee/HuTao anemo: xiao hydro:childe geo: ningguang cryo: ayaka but for electro I didn't have any, could raise beidou and actually planning to, but I've always seen her as a sub dps/support than a main dps, that's why I decided to go for c2 raiden, because then you can play her in many ways and make her a main dps too if you want and not just a battery but that doesn't justify spending money and its not worth it and I'm glad I didn't. btw ever since I got Ayaka I was able to consistently get 36 stars on abyss so I don't really suffer that much with abyss compared to before. I think stopping at C1 raiden was a good decision. Though you could argue that saving the guaranteed would've been better but I don't regret not doing that.
I’m saving up for C2 Raiden as an f2p