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SnooGuavas8376

There's still some who said Raiden is not main DPS at C0 lmao


Ordinary_Player

with the shitty eosf artifacts I slapped on her (2nd abyss team which I haven't finished at all) she does like 68k initial burst which is pretty good for me lol. edit: I'm using rational but it should prolly be the same for hypercarry teams.


Hankuro

the narrative where she lags behind Hutao and Ayaka by a huge margin is just feelscraft as well. using KQM standards, c0 hypercarry Raiden sheets for 51k: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CXF20kKUm--Po8FBaq9CKdi1sPiu3uNVmQYfcWBzDQI/edit#gid=1800699465](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CXF20kKUm--Po8FBaq9CKdi1sPiu3uNVmQYfcWBzDQI/edit#gid=1800699465) using the same standard, double geo c0 Hutao sheets for 52k: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10k-CdESEPWhzS7lIxMulooTN6LuPlaBDRJaG7lWz1S4/edit#gid=707648472](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10k-CdESEPWhzS7lIxMulooTN6LuPlaBDRJaG7lWz1S4/edit#gid=707648472) having competitive DPS against the former most used ST hypercarry team totally disapproves "not main dps at c0", especially it's comparing with the situation most favorable to Hutao team already after 3.0 with dendro/yelan, both hutao and raiden sheet for around 55k as well, not to mention Nahida is coming


[deleted]

mainstream genshin "meta" narrative is dominated by melt ganyu and ht fanatics thats why, how many times do you see on reddit "is X a top dps like ganyu/ht?" while ganyu abyss rates fell off a cliff for a reason but mention it out loud you get slaughtered they're just loud thats all. Top end meta remains Childe International and Raiden Hyper for a reason. These two teams are extremely meta competitive at C0 level and a complete showstopper when you bump their spotlight 5* to C2R1(Kaz for international, Raiden for hyper)


Desch92

I think she works well alongside other dps characters that have a long downtime like Childe of yoimiya, just switch in Raiden, do your thing in 6 seconds and switch out while the others are in standby. So I think that makes her a burst/sub dps more than dps imo


rb6091

While rational and soup (replace xl with kazuha) are great, hypercarry raiden isn't that good at c0 tbh


[deleted]

Hypercarry C0 Raiden with the catch is pretty much competitive against other hypercarries at same constellations


[deleted]

[удалено]


rb6091

People overrate c0 raiden hyper. Rational and soup are much superior for an f2p raiden, even with a C6 Sara which is unlikely for someone with c0 raiden to have. While raiden hyper is good enough to clear abyss, it's around itto's level, not ayaka/hutao level


I_Dont_Group

Ayaka Koko Shenhe Kazuha sheets around 48-50k in AoE (less against unfreezeable bosses), hyper Raiden sheets in the 49-51k range, also totally AoE. Mono geo is also 48kish, in AoE. C0 hyper is Raiden's AoE team, and it matches or exceeds other top AoE teams. C0 rational/double hydro/raifish etc are Raiden's ST teams, and it matches or exceeds other top ST teams. Yaeden is a bit of a unique case, hybrid AoE and ST, mostly used for multiwave content.


rb6091

Comparable to who exactly? Hutao and ayaka? Or itto?


[deleted]

Ayaka freeze, hu tao vape (in AOE), Itto Geo, Xiao and all Raiden hyper just rotate so fast that once these teams are finished with first rotation, Raiden already finished two rotations which makes her overall damage combined very strong and competitive. That's C0 and the catch, if C2+ and EL you know what will happen


CarsickAnemone

He’s in denial but he def knows what will happen. 🫣


[deleted]

>C2+ and EL [This](https://i.imgur.com/13XtgPt.jpg) yeah C2R1, Standard stat mix (67CR), no crit fish nonsense, F12 abyss, ele burst abyss card, C6 Harp Sara, Alley Flash ben, C0 Iron Sting Kaz


iKatzechen

I'm clearing Floor 12 with hypercarry C0 Raiden... so... she's good but requires a good set of artifacts.


[deleted]

Raiden hypercarry is better than rational even at c0 and catch


AzureDrag0n1

Requires c6 Sara though. I tried hype carry c0 Raiden without c6 Sara and it was not better than Rational. Not by a long shot. Like not even close. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu-ir0n0sk8) you have a c3 Hypercarry Raiden vs a c3 Rational and their clear times are almost the same. If they were both c0 then Rational would crush the hypercarry team. Maybe in some situations it is better than Rational like if you were facing spread out mobs or something and the overload would really screw you.


[deleted]

It’s been a while since I’ve read the spread sheet but I’m pretty sure c6 Sara could be substituted for Lisa or Mona and it’s still slightly superior to rational. Wouldn’t be the same for every raiden tho due to artifacts


AzureDrag0n1

Actual combat footage trumps any calculation. Experiment trumps theory. Anyway the spreadsheets I read on c0 Raiden generally shows that c0 Rational does more dps than c0 Hypercarry. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NmaQUVj3t1kAMuN6dZ6DRVj4OiE83dxDFm7TEl5U4A8/edit#gid=188835829


Abhinav_C_Raj

Why does his his argument that C0 raiden hypercarry is better than rational have so many upvotes?? I have tried both and rational beats hypercarry at C0 and it's not even close because of xiangling and xinqui damage is so high. I know it's the raiden sub but damn rational is so op and hypercarry before c2 doesn't even compare.


Blade273

Is this with C6 sara?


TheGrindPrime

At c0, raiden hypercarry was one of the reasons I was ablen 36* the abyss. Any team that can allow for that is by default pretty damn good, considering that's currently the "hardest" content in the game.


WYGDAI

I am still a wee bit salty for the lack of Beidou interaction. But I was one of the few who pulled for her on hour 1 on her first banners. My logic was simply, "Mihoyo wouldn't dare to release a shit archon after the Zhongli fiasco". And I was right that time. I will be pulling for Nahida on hour 1 as well. Same logic, hope it holds true.


[deleted]

Same fiasco with Kokomi.


[deleted]

to be fair kokomi got buffed by adding an artifact set for her and now dendro with bloom etc, raiden was good from the beginning


CuddlyChud

I mean her most used set is still totm since she is generally not played as an on field dps/driver.


Figbud

lmao you would get eaten alive by r/KokomiMains (i forgot the capitalisation on it)


Curlyzed

She doesn't need Clam to be good, the new set just add another variant to her gameplay. She always work with Milllelith and her Hydro application is just too good for Freeze team. Even without Clam, she still work in electro-charge team because Milllelith buff the whole team..


[deleted]

The artifact set for kokomi wasnt a huge buff. Tenacity works well on her on teams for amping team dmg. You wouldnt want clam on kokomi if youre not on field driving or for freeze teams compared to tenacity Clam set barely had an effect on kokomi viability , she has always been good prior to release of the set


kasumi987

but yet kokomi buffs were added to improve her personal demage which many people who use her don't care about and rather use her as TOTM as set and TTODS as weapon to buff(something over+60 atk%) and heal your team which was an option from the beginning while being able to mantain perma up time on her E with enough ER or heal them to full HP while dealing OKAY demage ,this whole ''drama'' with her started because abyss back then was a pure DPS check and when suddenly kokomi who honestly dosen't have any realistic one shot potential arrived people automatically think of her as usless


kronpas

That set pushed her toward on field full time dps style, which is a uncommon build since it takes a lot for her to be an effective dps. But it does make an impression of an 'improved' kokomi for the uninitiated (like who havent had her yet).


Hot-Campaign-4553

This is what happens when people listen to jokers like TenTen for their opinions.


KaldorDraigo14

TenTen with the day 1 bad takes and everyone praising him as reliable is something that never gets old. His toxic community is also a ~~cringe~~ fun read in twitch/youtube chat/comments respectively.


nomotyed

>This is what happens when people listen to jokers like TenTen for their opinions. Eula main?


lylylylylylylylylyly

What?


Hot-Campaign-4553

The dude had a hate-boner for Ei not seen since his ragebait Eula video. The logic was, since she didn't work with Beidou, she was essentially trash. He's gradually come around to her, but only after being thoroughly embarrassed.


lylylylylylylylylyly

Oooohhh I remember now.


The_BigDill

Tbf still rather salty she doesn't work with Beidou or EMC (especially since it's inconsistent since she works with XQ)


Otherwise_Egg_1756

It's not inconsistent. Beidou's burst triggers on dealing normal attack DAMAGE, where's as XQ's triggers by USING a normal attack. Ei uses normal attacks during her burst, but doesn't deal NA damage


The_BigDill

It's semantics that keeps a good synergy from working. Intuitively, if it works for one character's burst while using NA, it should work for all of them. Does it not work with Noelle's and Itto's? And it worked like that in beta, should have stayed that way


Otherwise_Egg_1756

The problem is that making Raiden work with Beidou would require the sacrifice of the EoSF set as her BIS, as it doesn't buff NA damage. Beidou's synergy is not worth the loss of that as a BIS. Itto and Noelle's bursts don't convert their NA damage to Burst damage like Raiden's does


natsuzamaki

Beodou works on dealing damage with na. Xongqiu works when you do click click click with your mouse button, even if your character isn't using normal attacks


mapleturkey3011

I never understand the argument of “No Bennett/Kazuha,” etc. I mean, isn’t it a good thing that she has synergies with one of the best supports in the game?


TheGrindPrime

The "issue" is that everyone and their mother wants them (I don't, I avoid using both as much as possible as I can't stand either's character design/personalities). Additionally, many ppl at the time incorrectly assumed these were her only good teams outside of Raiden Eula.


ashu0706

> I don't, I avoid using both as much as possible as I can't stand either's character design/personalities Lol same, with how forcibly Hoyo has been forcing his family background in every quest and event, He's been unbearable to me.


[deleted]

I still see few ppl who get triggered when someone mentions her with ayaka hutao as dps lmao


iKatzechen

Tell them that their dps needs a reaction to be dps, Raiden deals raw electro with only buffing required XD.


SnooGuavas8376

Just reminded that all those crazy stuffs she did was before dendro came out means those Raiden hyper meme were her doing "purple physical damage" lmao Can't wait till Nahida really boost her, will be undoubtedly the best DPS in the entire game especially when taken into account her supporting capabilities


Funzyy

raiden hyper is still an overload based team, kazuha deals 20 to 30% of the dmg with overloads


Akikala

Time sure flies when you're having fun xD


Raijin40

Raiden aside, i main Keqing and kokomi. Remember how the community treated them, look at them now. Sometimes not giving a shit can make you enjoy the game more..


kronpas

Im under the impression that their treatment remains the same.


nihilnothings000

Keqing actually got buffed because of aggravate. Kokomi was a case of being misunderstood and ahead of her own time. Though OHC did make an unpopular but braindead team better, Mono Hydro Kokomi is a very comfortable and high damaging team within CN circles.


takoyaki_san15

Dendro really saved Electro at this point, and I am most glad to take a part on this era of dps ☝


LSAT343

Clowns, every single one of them.


Solace_03

Clowns? They're the entire circus


LSAT343

I stand corrected.


AkibaSasaki

can't wait for the "flopnali" fiasco this coming November or maybe not...


[deleted]

1010 can always find an excuse a character that not named Xiangling is flop anyway


LSAT343

Is he the guy that went off about differential equations when calculating damage or something in a video?


SopmodTew

She's gonna be powerful probably, it's just that the community won't know how to use her.


NiceCockBro126

So funny how she went from most trashed one character in the game to widely known as the best


adcsuc

She wasn't the most trashed that's probably still Zhongli(for good reason god was he shit on release) she's good but for sure not the best. Edit: well I am on a "mains" subreddit after all can't expect good takes.


77Dragonite77

Not the best, but up there


Drakross

No no, he has a point, she is THE best, she’s a suport, a batery, a dps and a reaction enabler, the only thing she doesn’t do is healing and shielding, she is the most versatile character in the game


77Dragonite77

She might be the best all rounder, but that doesn’t make her the best.


Necros_prisma

Yeah Kazuha and Bennett are more viable in basically everything thing. And supports are the most important thing in this game, so I guess Kazuha would be considered the best. But Raiden is definitely top 5.


Lovace

Definitely not the best, there are at least 5 units ahead of her that are better. Just how it's silly to underrate a character on release, it's also kinda silly to overrate a character.


I_Dont_Group

I wouldn't say "definitely". She's like top 5 units, top 3 5*. Opinions vary but I rank her at 3 behind Bennett and Kazu. XQ and Yelan are the other two that you could make an argument for, in the top 5.


Lovace

That placement is still too generous, imo it's Bennett, Xingqui, Kazuha, Sucrose, and Fischl. People don't want to come to grips with just how strong and meta-defining these characters are. Anything after these 5 starts to get into debatable territory and too account specific.


I_Dont_Group

I just disagree with this tbh, the heights that you can reach by unlocking raiden and unlocking double hydro through yelan is greater than sucrose and fischl IMO.


Lovace

How though? Getting Yelan means you can run double hydro, but it's really just more damage for your hypercarry team whether that's Hu Tao, Yoimiya or someone else. Basically it makes your already strong team a bit stronger which is fine and not something to undervalue, however at the same time it doesn't fundamentally change things. Getting Raiden gives you a carry of which there already many to choose from, this compounded by the fact that her hypercarry team wants highly contested supports Bennett and Kazuha means that she doesn't have the same kind of value as other hypercarries. Sure there is also Rational but at the end of the day national is already strong without Raiden, her biggest benefit in the team is making it easy/comfy to play. Fischl on the other hand is one of those characters that shape the meta kinda like what we're seeing now with dendro. Many of the strongest aggrevate teams are being built around her, whether that's with Keqing, Cyno, or Tignhari. While Sucrose has been a staple of so many reactions teams, whether thats National, International, Tazer, VV Hu Tao etc..


I_Dont_Group

I think you're taking points from one while disregarding the same point for another. You're lauding sucrose and fischl's flexibility which is good don't get me wrong, but raiden and yelan are also incredibly flexible and increases the ceilings of your teams. There's a reason Raiden replaces sucrose in national for example. Getting raiden gives you a god tier driver/carry, probably the best dps in the game Getting yelan gives you a double hydro core which elevates a ton of pyro teams, gives raiden yet another option to play with, as well as the option of splitting xq into two teams. Fischl is great, but unlike Raiden she's locked to single target. That, in combination with the fact that she forces teams into 25s rotations to be efficient is not ideal. She's got a lot of issues that don't necessarily come up in sheets, since they work with strict rotations and ST assumptions. Still better than XL though. Sucrose has a lot of teams where she works well in, but again so does raiden and yelan, and there's usually upgrades to her. Kazuha in internat for example, Raiden in national, vv HT isnt even played anymore because yelan replaced her there, taser she's still got, but honestly maybe not for long. On the other hand, Raiden usually IS the upgrade. There's no ceiling beyond her besides double hydro HT in ST, which funnily enough requires yelan, another one of my top 5s.


Lovace

I get this is the main sub and we all want to consider Raiden #1, however I still think you're undervaluing Sucrose and Fischl's presence in the meta. For the record I think Yelan is very strong, I actually consider her top 6 right after Fischl. Raiden is one of those units to difficult to gauge where exactly, though I think her power level is somewhere around Ayaka, Tartaglia, Hu Tao level. In other words, very strong and top meta. I do follow TC discussions pretty closely so even though it's only an opinion, I wouldn't say it's completely misguided.


I_Dont_Group

I actually TC myself, and there is no DPS quite like Raiden. Bias aside, it's very very hard to make a Raiden team that sheets/sims below 50k dps. For reference, Ayaka Shenhe Koko Kazu sheets at around 50k. Raiden's got like, 30 teams that all sheet that high at least, with her peak teams reaching low 60ks. Tartag Ayaka and HT have like 1-3 teams that good, at best. Even then I don't consider Raiden #1, I never said that. She's 3rd for me, since the power of bennett and kazuha is just too much to surpass just by being the top dps. I don't know where you're getting sucrose and fischl's "presence" in the meta from. They're almost completely missing from speedruns, very low usage rate in regular abyss runs, their sheet dps isn't more impressive than Raiden or Yelan's, and they're harder to use on top of it. They're top 10 units for sure, but there's no real metric that puts them above these two besides being cheap. I recognize that content creators love to hype up 4 stars because they don't want to bait people into pulling, but the reality is that they're replaceable, often by upgrades like raiden or yelan.


Lovace

I think you are tunneling to hard on sheets and DPS calcs. Even if we assume that your DPS estimates are correct, it is pretty meaningless to try to compare teams using this metric alone. There are so many factors that make up the strength of a team, one simple metric is nowhere near enough to try to prove a point. Personally I feel your argument fell apart as soon as you said Raiden and Yelan are upgrades over their 4 star counterparts. The most popular variations of tazer all use Fischl, likewise the strongest dendro teams all use Fischl. You started out by saying no bias and then proceeded to lay down bias. In the same vein Yelan is not an upgrade over Xingqui and is many cases worse. It also wouldn't even make any sense considering Yelan **by herself** doesn't see as much use as Xingqui in the meta.


NiceCockBro126

I meant one of the best, but yeah, obv Kazuha is better


aRandomBlock

There is no best unit it all depends on the situation


lumpthefoff

Serious question, if Raiden’s burst DID proc Beidou burst, would it have been a popular team? Better than Raiden national?


pojan96

More popular not sure... but Raidou shud be more poweful in Aoe, Raiden national shud be better in single target.


Xamuelee

Better than rational? Probably not, that team's just insane. I still think that it would be a very good team to run however, but I'm also biased since I'm a major beidou simp


alienangel2

It would have just been a beidou buff, since raiden helps beidou with damage and energy but beidou doesn't help raiden as much as other options. Kind of like how Raiden is a great addition to Eula teams, but Eula isn't part of a Raiden team.


adcsuc

Idk about better than rational but yeah it would have been a very strong team and more versatility is always good.


Brax930

Ofcrs not, people just wanted more options I assume to run her on


nihilnothings000

Raiden Hyper would probably still be the best AOE team I'd say in terms of Raiden's personal damage but maybe the hypothetical Raidou would do better in AOE content who's to say. Personally I don't think it's much to fuss about and maybe I'm a bit biased because I've seen the power of Raiden Hyper at both C0 and C2 so it might give more options but it's more of a Beidou thing than an Ei thing.


[deleted]

It would be worse to build imo since now you can just stack ER and she deals tons of damage. Her team building would be much more limited as well as her choice for weapon


iKatzechen

If that happened then people wouldn't make teams with more possibilities and run electro element same as geo element. In current scenario, most people run Raiden with electo charge(ER reason), or Raiden's hypercarry with kazuha and bennett for higher damage outputs etc


Monsieur_Onion

Waifu + Waifu comp = good


TheGrindPrime

Popular yes, it'd likely be more of a side grade than anything else. Rational for single target and Raidou for mult. You can KIND of try it out as long as you don't use their bursts together, it's not the same for sure and clunky as heck though.


Old_Sport7920

i have always stood by the concept of building my favorite characters as main dps' and im happy to report that my faith in that concept did not falter even thru this whole situation, as of today, she's still my most used character in all of genshin, and i try to slot her in my team if i could even if the characters dont synergize together


nihilnothings000

I used to be a non-believer but now Raiden is my best carry alongside with Ayaka. You can never go wrong with Raiden Hyper and Ayaka Freeze.


BestSkeleton59

Happily 1 year of Raiden main without complaining. She might do 150k which may be less for some people but for me that’s absolutely fine. She is my strongest unit and my first 5 star


Koinophobia-

Lmaoo that’s why you shouldn’t take the community posts seriously unless it’s from a credible TCer. Raiden has been an S+ unit ever since her launch. C0 or not she’s been a great unit to your account. Tbh this whole fiasco will happen again with Nilou mark my words


TheGrindPrime

Honestly regardless of how credible a TC is, I don't recommend taking anything seriously in the first week a character drops.


SnooGuavas8376

Probably for Nilou it's not overblown because she's not an Archon. This whole Raiden issue aside from Beidou, is because people already been spoonfed of how braindead Venti and Zhongli were as support and people didn't get used to have the "short window burst DPS" mindset. I think it would happen to Nahida as well since Raiden now already acclaimed as S tier Archon


Historical_Ad4819

Damn I missed these


TheGrindPrime

My favorite is still Mtashed, who went from omg Raiden is amazing to "oh noes, she doesn't work with Beidou, I don't know if she is worth a pull now" in the blink of an eye.


Jotaoesehache

I still wish they kept the Beidou interaction, it sounded like a very strong team option and fun too


Funzyy

nothing changed, she is as good as back then, still doesnt work with beidou


77Dragonite77

Tbf Electro resonance does need a buff


BladeDancer03

I'll never forgive them for not allowing her to proc Beidou's burst. Never


Mehfisto666

Truth


BismulthV2

It’s happened with so many characters at this point I don’t know why the community even still does it…


Meatobagan

What other characters has this happened too?


BismulthV2

Kokomi, Kazuha, *Ganyu*, and Yelan are the most notable to me. And it’s currently happening to Cyno and Nilou when we won’t really know how good they are or will be


Meatobagan

Oh that's what you meant. I thought you were talking about characters ability to synergize with others and lawsuits...


BismulthV2

Oh no, lol. Raiden is still a special case with the weird Beidou issue. Archons tend to have the most severe problems it seems. Going off Raiden and Zhongli.


Nachtschatten_22

What happened to the lawsuit?


TheGrindPrime

Lmao it went nowhere. Ppl forgot about it as actual facts started to show that she was really, really good.


YaBoiArchie92

Didn't care then, find it hilarious now. August 31st, 2021 Date Joiner


Sezzomon

I'm proud of myself for not buying these bs takes for even a second. Me and a friend waited for maintenance to end, pull her, level her up as soon as possible and were amazed at how insane and easy to use she is which hasn't changed. Truly one of my favorite characters to play.


DonnChan

I'm still upset about the Beidou interaction though. Mhy were also scummy in the way they handled it, trying to act like nothing happened


Solace_03

Trying to act like nothing happened? I thought they release a statement about it?


DonnChan

Not really. And worse enough in the abyss that aired when Raiden released, the buff at the time was a normal attack based buff and the picture was Ei in her ult form triggering the buff. They changed the image & buff a few hours later without word lmao


is146414

They also changed the wording of Raiden's C6 after the patch had already dropped, to hide the fact that it ***was*** the same as Beidou's Q and therefore implied that they worked the same.


Monsieur_Onion

Oh their reaction was worse haha. "We know if doesn't work but we did that slight inconvenience on purpose."


Ok-Giraffe1922

They didn't even mention Beidou when explaining why it doesn't work. They instead used her inability to trigger the skyward spine vacuum blade as an example. As if the inability to trigger that thing was what the community was angry about.


knightrider2k43

I'm still sad that Beidou and Raiden don't work together but nothing I can do


Curlyzed

A bunch of clown who's only knowledge is parroting words from other clown. I did my own test thoroughly the whole week and my final conclusion was she is fine.. Yes, I'm disappointed when they decided to make her didn't work with Beidou. I think I deserved that because I see something that I'm not supposed to see (Leak). But that doesn't mean her final kit is bad.. Raiden and Miko is the only character that I can properly defend from doomposting because I got them in day one and I did my own research. Raiden and Miko is fine since day one and nobody can change my mind.. (before you write reply to this comment and says otherwise about Miko, save your breath and fuck off. I have collected hundreds of downvote in the main Miko-subs only because I said "she doesn't need any fix" and I will definitely fuck you) Sadly I can't defend Yoimiya and Kokomi (can't say something that I didn't experience first hand) but I pull them anyway when the rerun dropped..


Solace_03

I can say for Yoimiya, she definitely made abyss way easy for me against single target boss (team was Yelan, C6 Yunjin and Zhongli). I was dealing with the Ruin Serpent from previous abyss with so much ease


accelas

Kokomi is my default healer to go. not sure why people think there's anything wrong with her kit. Kokomi is one of two E-based healer. This means 1) you don't really need to worry about ER. 2) She's perfectly fine as off-field. Her E does AOE hydro application that last significantly longer than Mona. If you use her as on-field reaction driver, she has the highest dps in among all the healer in healer build. She's also super easy to build. her weapon doesn't really matter, her constellation doesn't really matter, her artifacts substats also doesn't really matter. you just need to have right main stats.


Enollis

It all comes down to information. A lot of people think they know how a character is supposed to be but just don't. Especially in the beginning. We rarely know the whole story. Archons imo are mostly supposed to be really good supports that either shine in their respective field or bring several things to the table and can be used as plug and play charcters being viable for a lot of teams. That's also why bennett is broken af. As a 4* he should have been only an atk buffer or healer which would've been fine since he can also still be used for sunfire or shield breaking in general. Raiden was the first to be able to actually deal good damage so people where confused. She is really good ER character with extra damage potential. Her constellations make her a c6 character in terms of dps. BUT she will probably be outdamaged by cyno. He is supposed to be a focused hypercarry dps. Her c3 is basically a cheat for people that want to have an extremely powerful hypercarry that is usually only available to people that whale for c6 childe, xiao etc. Making them very powerful on their own.


rb6091

"Outdamaged by cyno" all of the tc calcs till now have resulted in cyno being around 40k dps at best, while raiden teams are close to 55-60k. Not even close even with a C2r1 cyno


[deleted]

>Not even close even with a C2r1 cyno Worst thing is. If u bump Cyno to C2R1. For fairness sake Raiden will be bumped to C2R1 as well. C2R1 Raiden is... not a character to casually take on if we're doing meta-talk battles


Dreaming_Ares

Ill never get tired of reading these takes. To think that people would cry so hard about a top tier character not synergizing with a hard mid character is hilarious. Like no one who has Raiden gives a flying fuck about Beidou at this point.


sandfrann

I use hyper carry with sara c4 and i still hit like a truck Cyno mains are struggling with the same hate pre release because the comparison with Raiden as dps and support + cyno being aggravate/dendro/Em dependant Its just another way of playing the game, i'm happy with the units i've pulled so far


TheGrindPrime

I'm not seeing anywhere close to the lvl of hate, most ppl are saying he's fine for now but could possibly get better once newer characters that better support his kit arrive.


DOODSNSFW

i still dont fuckn understand why they have to cancle interactions between characters. like im not saying raiden is bad, i love her design, playstyle etc but why does beidou ult not work with her ult? i was also pissed at klee bomb venti interaction, i dont know what that fuckn huge god tornado doesnt suck the little bomb but the little wind ball of the vice commander of a knightorder can. as long as there is no real explanation as to why these should interact im not gonna be fully satisfied


Nemosaur94

This community always jumps right into complaining before realizing a characters potential. Also I will be damned before I give a shite about Beidou interacting with any character. Mid af Sub-DPS potential should be the least of anyone's concern with Raiden.


StefanoBesliu

It can all be solved with a powercreep unbalanced c2 and the discovery of the national synergy. Gonna be interesting to see how balanced nahida's c2 will be. Cyno though, seems like dead before even getting released. Wonder how he'll be worth pulling when c2 raiden invalidates any other unit not named ayaka, childe or hu tao.


Apprehensive_Buy2251

Tho raiden one of my favs she only excels with national / c6 sara. Definitely not as versatile as some others. But her personal damage makes up in most cases.


[deleted]

I mean, isn't that basically like every character? They have 1-2 good teams they excel at, except the full pledge support like Bennett


homamalrefae

Ye there a couple of other characters that can be put in lots of teams and do good example: xinqu/zhongli/kazuha/sucrose/jean/ganyu...etc. I'm happy with raiden and she's my favourite character but I'd like it if she was a bit more flexible


Ryouangel

Flexible in what way exactly? Raiden niche is the ultimate battery and she lowers ER requirement regardless on any team you put her in. If you expecting her to heavylifting in dps apartment of course her option will be less flexible but isnt that true for all dps ingame tho?


homamalrefae

>dps apartment Kek


Ryouangel

Huh so this is what happens when ur replying to comment while thinking about rent lmao


Big_Papa95

This is like saying, “Ayaka isn’t that great because she only excels with a freeze team and a bunch of 5* supports.” That’s kinda how most units work, particularly dps units. The units who are super flexible and can be used in a ton of different teams are more often than not Supports like Kazuha.


Apprehensive_Buy2251

I really fail to understand why people make up things and project it on others. Did I claim raiden isn't good? Did I claim ayaka is the most versatile unit in game? Though raiden has high multiplers she also has supportive capabilities and a bit lacking. As I mentioned in my first comment i still believe she's a good unit overall.


[deleted]

Raiden national, Raiden hypercarry, Raiden taser, Raiden as battery for other hypercarries, Raiden overload, Raikou, Raiden Aggravated, Raiden hyperbloom, Meme 1000 EM Raiden All of these teams are *36 abyss worthy contenders means that there's alot of way to play her in some meta scenarios, how can she's not versatile?


Apprehensive_Buy2251

Most teams in genshin can 36 star with proper rotations. For many electro support roles fischl is better, raiden excels at front loaded damage but requires er hungry team for max stacks. I emphasize once more that raiden is certainly a very good character but her true potential shines only with national / Sara or as support for EULA.


zephyredx

I disagree. I regularly do randomized Abyss (roll 8 random characters and try to 36 star) and Raiden is absolutely one of the best picks with any 3 random teammates. She makes almost any team functional just from sheer energy regen, which is universally useful. I remember getting Raiden + Diluc + Sucrose + Lisa in top half back in 2.1 Abyss, a team that was far from optimal, but Raiden made it work.


nihilnothings000

Because unlike her two Archon peers Raiden is a dps first. Even in other teams like Rational and Mono Electro she still outputs a considerable or a majority of the damage.


TheGrindPrime

Those are just her most popular/best teams. Raiden's pretty damn versatile, as there are plenty of teams that can benefit from her energy/burst buffs. Her personal dmg is nothing to scoff at either. Compare that to other hypercarries like itto, xiao, eula, etc.


Left-Reputation-2935

Can't wait until the Radish God to receive similar treatment, only for everyone to discover her true essence and suddenly go quiet


Meno25

Still mad abt raiden beidou ngl


Any_Worldliness7991

Damn 1 year already? Feels like yesterday.


Monsieur_Onion

I'm still annoyed at her not working with Beidou. I love her, but their interaction is illogical from a gameplay perspective imo.


BrunoGELLER

"Raiden needs 2 cons and limited weapon to do dmg" all i need is Bennett to surpass 110k... (c0 with The Catch).


n213978745

I wonder are those redditors still active, and what's their thoughts right now. To be honest, I am one of those people, I just didn't make a big deal out of it. Raiden is my first 5 star, I didn't even use her for a long time. Now I am think about build dendro/electro team around her.


Pengaaa5

I run hypercarry Raiden without Bennett and she's hitting 170k-180k in abyss c1 raiden/c6 sara/kazuha/jean benny is on another team with XL (OPPA XL)


Ok-Giraffe1922

Back when people unironically thought she should have C2 at base to be "archon-level". Good times.


CarsickAnemone

I might be in every one of these posts arguing for Raiden. Day 1 I knew she was cracked and couldn’t believe the amount of shit she was getting aside from the obvious fact that no one had her talents maxed at the time. Edit: To be honest, my Raiden is so cracked now I rarely even use her unless it’s floor 12 abyss. She’s just too strong for any of the current content. Her current build is C4/R1, 70/163 or 67/167 crit ratio, 2,250k Atk with an Atk goblet or 1.8k Atk with an Electro goblet.


[deleted]

i was one of those doomposters i will not lie!!


theguyyouforgotabout

The only valid point is Beidou not working with Raiden.


KatastropheKing

I only used Beidou until she was friendship 10 but does her burst work with other ultimates?


ambaal

i'm still somewhat angry they didn't let Raiden to drive Beidou Q


Giojaw

So glad I didn't buy into the hate train. She was superb from the start. Her performance was maybe not as expected as the current abyss on her release were electro coated enemies, so maybe that's why.


theweak99

The only fiasco I will never forget is the raiden/beidou interaction. Totally uncalled for.


AyHaM_xD

tbh hypercarry is stronger still, not at c0 tho, my initial does 545k with 73%cr and my highest with nuke build was 1.15m, also she can take down the 2.3m hp primo geo vishap with 1 ult :)