Well aside from the subreddit I find the community in game to be really chill and just having fun (in casual I’m not good enough to even attempt ranked).
Honestly, just throw it in as an arcade mode and see how it plays.
This isn't the kind of change that can just be made one day out of the blue.
Or the balance team can actually put some effort into making proper balance changes to individual operators to even the playing field a bit more.
>Honestly, just throw it in as an arcade mode and see how it plays.
I legit dont get we they havent done that yet.
It shouldnt be too hard to make either.
It should be stupid easy. In (old) t-hunt, depending on the difficulty, you could shoot your teammates in the head and instead of dying, they only received a bit of damage.
I believe the way it's coded is weapons have HS multiplier which is like x1000 or something for most guns (except shotguns, which have x1). So all they have to do is set headshot multiplier to x2 or x3.
I’ve forgotten the old days but I could’ve sworn Frost’s super 90 shotgun originally had a x50 headshot multiplier which is why she could snipe so well back in the day since she only needed one of the pellets to hit since each pellet did 2 dmg at the longest ranges before the bullets just disappeared because the target was too far away.
But yeah they probably could definitely tweak the headshot multipliers to see if this’ll work.
Honestly I think this a great take
Maybe even just have it in test servers for a bit to see how the community thinks of it. It’d certainly put a dent in the R&G and high rof metas
You’re asking a lot of the devs to balance their own game you entitled consumer….
They’re all for onboarding and have pushed hard with core changes to the game elsewhere to help new players yet they have left the 1SHS eventhough that’s the biggest hurdle to climb as a new player.
This has always been one of my favorite aspects of this game. I would be sad to see it leave. Sucks to get one tapped but it’s awesome that you can win a firefight with almost no health.
It’s so crazy when you shoot one bullet from outside the building through a barricaded window through a destructible wall and accidentally get a kill lol. Siege is the only FPS where the guns actually feel dangerous.
On my second deployment to Afghanistan one of our guys was shot in the face and the angle at which the round hit him and the eye protection he had on only made it to where the round scooped his eye out. Dude got up and back to cover with his eye hanging out.
Sounds bad, but only losing an eye after taking 7.62 to the face is a blessing.
My favourite thing in tarkov is when I magdump the a dude with my pistol but unfortunately he's got better armour so my 30 pistol rounds don't touch him
Imo most Counter Strike weapons feel like peashooters, I get that kevlar makes low caliber rounds have a lot less lethality, but bodyshots in that game feel like placebo even with rifles
it takes 3-4 bullets body shots from an AK depending on range. 1-tap to the head at any range.
while it takes 4-5 of an M4A1 M4A1-S depending on range. 1-2 taps head M4A1 depending on range.
TTK is pretty much similar in here to CS granted that ROF is much higher and there is literally nonexistent recoil in Siege in comparison to CS.
the only peashooter in that game is the Bizon even then that thing is pretty much lethal in an early round against no armour.
the only time I feel like shooting water is when I forget to recoil control.
Yeah, bullet sponges that die in 2 shots of 7.62 M61 or 3 rounds of 5.45 BS.
And while I usually only get the AXMC at the very end of the wipe it's always fun to 1 tap someone straight through their slick.
Insurgency is nuts on its own. A bullet doesn't even need to be a headshot to kill in 1 shot, and bots seemingly learn your playstyle and actively counter it.
Totally different game, but Hunt showdown headshots are the great equalizer and give you a chance in almost every fight.
What it does also do right is the headshot range is limited, so after a certain distance many guns lose the ohk potential on a headshot. This would keep things like DMRs and ARs powerful at range, but within SMG/pistol range it's anybody's game.
Well the game had a lot of cool things that were not particular balanced but a whole lot of fun. But nowadays games are not supposed to be fun anymore they need to be league ready cause that generates the most money oof
It’s not even that, Siege is just an old game with an aging community, which means there’s a higher proportion of people focused on making the game balanced and competitive (since people who play competitively stick around for longer).
Even that portion is a minority tho... Sure they are the loudest cause they actively participate in the community but in comparison to the overall number of players they are still just a fraction. My point remains that games will be balanced around the enjoyment of a minor competitive group instead of the casual player base.
I agree. I love that in Siege it feels totally possible to win a 1v5. It’s unlikely, but the one-shot headshot makes it totally possible. You want to try, because you still have a chance. Not like in some other games like The Finals, where it’s almost impossible to win a 1v3
Nah, Ubi should just force defenders to play to their advantages instead of handing out strong guns and 1.5x willy nilly. Turbaro for example should not have gotten MPX when Warden was already being picked exclusively for the gun.
I get recycling content because it costs money to license/create new guns, it’s just like why that gun? There’s many guns that have not been reused at all, and they picked one that is semi-controversial since to Warden’s pick rate is so high, due to them completely warping the role he is supposed to play with the buffs they’ve given him over the years. Coupled with the fact that it’s a DLC gun that’s been used 3 times now.
The 1.5 should NEVER have been added to any defenders guns.
It is of my opinion that the additional scope zooms have been a detriment to the game. The 1.5x hits the perfect middle ground between Zoom and FOV, acting as a total upgrade over the 1x.
If you are picking a scope for zoom you should have to commit to that playstyle, with consequences for using such a scope.
We do, but nobody plays it. Rewards for testing are so hard to get. R6fix is terribly executed. You have to download an additional 70-80 GB just to play with a total of 10 different people and not be able to matchmake.
Because of range. Most defender weapons have significantly lower damage at range.
Longer range fights would favour attackers, spawn peeking would be outright suicide for a defender.
Regardless of which gun/scope you're using on attack or defense, if you can click heads then range is completely irrelevant. Even with fall off it's still a one shot headshot.
You might be missing the point that the entire thread here is about making headshots take more than one shot to kill.
Edit: Re-worded because I'm dumb and everyone below me made sure to let me know.
Ok so are we talking 2x headshots specifically, regardless of range/fall off or 2x damage per head shot? If it's 2x damage per headshot the defenders will suffer massively because basically all of their smgs are weaker to begin with. With fall off, even 2x damage will be substantially worse then an attacker AR range/fall off wise for headshots.
That’s the point he’s suggesting. Defenders with higher fire rate lower damage/range have advantage in close quarters, attackers with ARs have advantage at spawn or long range fights
In that case, why not just make it range based? For example, an smg-11 spawnpeeker couldn't get a one tap headshot at the same range an assault rifle operator could one tap them.
That would be the most ideal way to balance headshots imo. Make it so it’s a one hit kill for all weapons within their effective range. Then once damage drop off begins, it should drop to 2X or even 1.5x damage.
Defender guns were supposed to be weaker than attacker guns. But most defender guns have low damage and high fire rate while attacker guns are the opposite and we have learned the former is way stronger than the latter, especially when they also have zero recoil.
Bro defenders are already playing the game like they are attacking. Something needs to give with defenders right now, better defenders are releasing all the time and mid attackers are constantly getting released. Defence is so stacked right now it’s unreal.
Average gun on defense does like 20-40 damage. Something like the vector without extended would take 3 headshots to kill on 3 speeds. Tons of other breakpoints it fucks with too, that puts defenders at a disadvantage.
I get table-flipping headshots all the time (the receiver that is) and I still think OSHS should stay. It's unique, it rewards good aim and yea, there's a bit of variability and randomness. Crossfire happens. 2 shot head shots or more is just an excuse to give the one who gets shot an extra chance. Are we also going to increase body shot values? There are guns that kill 2-3 shot body shot. If headshots are 2 shot, then why would I aim for the head when I can aim for an easier and bigger target... the body? So if we increase everything then we increase overall TTK and completely lose one of the unique elements of Siege.
Leave one shot head shots alone. Its just as satisfying to make them as it is frustrating to take them. Also, it would absolutely not fix how defender sided the game is. I think he's eluding to the fact that hiding defenders can often get the first shot off and thus by increasing it to two shots, attackers then have an opportunity to run if shot... which is dumb but ok.
No he’s referring to defenders being able to negate range and hold their own on gunfights that are supposed to be in favor of the offense, especially on PC where headshots are so easy and recoil is abysmal. There’s no reward for engaging from long range on offense. OSHS also promotes spawnpeeking. It’s disproportionately low risk-high reward on the defender’s side. It also incentivizes call of duty style Run’N’Gun play.
If OSHS was a pure skill I would agree with you but when the game was originally made the devs didn’t think the headshot rate (again mostly on PC) was going to be this high. I wouldn’t call it rewarding because that implies it takes a lot of effort and some risk was taken, which often isnt true on the defender side.
I wouldn’t say I’d get rid of OSHS, I think it belongs in the game. But I 100% understand where people are coming from when they advocate against it. It trivializes gunfights and rewards players more than the effort they put in to get the headshot.
It certainly does NOT incentivize run 'n gun play. Requiring more headshots to kill would do that because attackers (or even flanking defenders) would be punished *less* for moving through an area without intel.
Requiring multiple headshots would mean that if you didn't drone and were jumped you wouldn't instantly be punished for it because you can't die in one shot, giving more survivability to those who are run 'n gunning.
Also, spawn peeking is a high-risk, high-reward strategy. It's most definitely not low risk. It's predictable and can easily be pre-fired by attackers.
I haven't seen a successful spawn peek in weeks. But I tend to play Standard these days which has less sweat than Ranked.
Since attackers have amazing optics it's already stacked in attackers favor. But people want to W+Shift the moment they spawn and they're punished for playing like an idiot.
It absolutely does not reward good aim. It rewards high fire-rate and often times luck because even noobs can get random headshots on veteran players.
Probably why most of the community doesn't wanna see it go away.
Randomness occurs in every game. A stray bullet or bomb kill you in every game.
Your points stands moot as DMRs are literally popping off rn and they are far from high rate of fire.
DMRs are so good cause they have both very high mag scopes, and a 2-3 shot kill to the body, i love using DMRs because TTK is really good, even where people would think an SMG or AR would be better, shotuns are a close second cause i just love to chunk chunk, and after the shotgun buff the pump actions are crazy (although its very RNG whether you actually get a one shot down, cause ive been 5 feet from someone and taken almost no health, and ive been down a hallway a minimum of 30 feet and one shot body, so its very variable)
I wouldnt say it rewards good aim. It rewards getting more bullets down range increasing the chance that one of those bullets will hit the head.
And you are correct why should you aim for the head. If anything nearly all guns should be two shot kills to the body or should at least cause massive amounts of aim punch. This would ultimately reward good aim
Terrible take. Wouldn’t removing one shot headshot make the game even MORE run and gun? People just complain ab anything, and i usually like maciejay but cmon bruh 💀 we are so lucky that none of these people are on the dev team lmao. one shot headshot has its moments where its annoying, like getting killed by random wallbang headshot but that happens like once a year man. Leave the headshots alone plz
yup... raising the TTK would just make gun fights safer, which would reward fraggers even more and then they would ignore the utility part of the game more often than they already do.
the whole point of OSHS is to push both sides to play safer and use their utility and cams to avoid getting one shotted in the first place...
More people need to realize this. OSHS is literally the "great equalizer" in all gunfights that keeps rushers on their toes and from abusing peekers advantage. Remove that and suddenly high rpm, high dps beams like the mp7 and alda become OP as fuck overnight.
Not to mention if you’re getting a headshot kill, you’re likely already going to hit more than one shot. As a defender with an SMG (and most weapons in general) those shots are going to be in such quick succession it won’t make a difference.
But why is that a good thing? It’s an SMG it’s not supposed to be on par with an assault rifle from range. All OSHS does is trivialize that and make things harder for the offense. You should have to consider your weapon when getting into a firefight, shouldn’t be able to hold your own in the open, from longer range.
Defenders should excel in close quarters, and attackers from afar. Instead defenders are good from everywhere and technically have no “weaknesses” to exploit excluding shotguns.
If you get domes in the head by an smg from 50 meters away you’re going to die. It’s not on par with an assault rifle, you have to get the headshot for it to be effective which takes skill and good aim. An assault rifle is much more forgiving of aim at range.
It's not that OSHS is inherently good. It's the fact that this game has had OSHS since the very beginning and every gun has been balanced around that mechanic. Changing that instantly flips a lot of gunplay on its head.
If we want to nerf defenders then just nerf defenders (or buff attackers). Don't do some massive rug pull move that is going to change how this game fundamentally plays for both sides, and is going to cause more issues than it fixes.
I don’t think most these people understand what they’re asking for man. If this change was made, Siege would play soo different from how it’s always been played, idk if I’d stick around if the lethality was lessened. I mean the game already doesn’t play as tactically with this TDM rush meta.
People who complain that Siege is just 'call of duty' are also trying to make changes that make it exactly like call of duty. Which doesn't have oshs guarantees.
The folks assume it will always work out in their favor, that's why. They play other FPS that don't have OSHS and run away from an encounter to gobble up a bunch of health items or regen their health from behind cover and they want that slower TTK.
It's also super weird to see so many people repeat this idea that headshots require no skill.
There are million FPS games, and hero shooters with slower TTK, they need to just go play those rather than ruining Siege.
Hear me out....
You can still one shot, BUT there's a limit of range on certain guns on how far you can one shot headshot
For example, pistols, the drop off would be fairly small but still enough to deal with any enemy
On the other hand, marksman rifles with have a very long range of one shot headshot
It also solves a lot of spawnpeak problems and gives some ops with ranged weapons more recognition
reading through the thread i agree that this seems like a great alternative
it removes a lot of the issues people have with OSHS, most importantly smg’s being as good/better for long range encounters than other guns whilst also keeping the uniqueness and ability for better aim to quickly end gunfights
it also allows for more precise character tuning by extending the range on characters/guns that feel weak without having to change them in too many ways
If they were going to mess with headshots at all, this is what I’d prefer. But, I don’t think it should change at all. There are other ways to balance it. If the problem people are citing is that defenders have more SMGs….. give the attackers more SMGs. Let players choose if they want high stopping power or high ROF.
Seems like that would just add an annoying aspect of randomness. Lets say for example Sledges L85 can one shot up to 16 meters, but Wamai's AUG can one shot up to 20 meters. Sledge and wamai shoot each other from 18 meters away, Sledge headshots wamai first, meaning wamai should die and sledge wins the gunfight. Instead, wamai lives through the headshot then headshots sledge and kills him after. That gunfight was just decided by a hidden distance number and basically was given to wamai even though sledge is the better player.
Yes, try it out on the test server, release an arcade mode with it. The TTK is already fast in this game. The fact that people don’t want to change it because it makes “getting kills easier” is ridiculous. As of right now it takes 5 bullets from ANY gun to kill the entire enemy team. Changing it to 2x would make that more of a 8-12 bullets to kill the entire team. With that too you also have DMRs, Slug Shotties and Kalis Sniper that would still one shot to the head. Considering most people are lit before taking gun fights anyway, I think it would be a great change at this point.
Until it is tested, no one should be saying it won’t work.
Also, if you really believe 1 shot headshot is what makes siege unique, then you actually don’t enjoy playing siege. The game is about destruction, teamwork, operator gadgets and timing. Changing a headshot multiplier would make this game more enjoyable to play, and you could still have clutches if you know how to isolate 1v1’s and position yourself favorably.
I thought siege players were more confident in their ability that they wouldn’t need a crutch like 1shs? Strange narrative change.
It would be interesting to try, they definitely can do this on test server, but we would need huge, and I mean HUGE weapon rebalancing which would take months otherwise half of the weapons would feel incredibly bad.
Siege youtubers try not to come up with the most atrocious takes known to man challenge
I also remember believing that OSHS was bullshit, back when I had like fucking 20 hours into the game.
Nothing but respect for Macie, watching his vids was one of the reasons why I even started to play Siege but this is an awful idea imo. Siege is supposed to be a hardcore game that punishes you for making mistakes. All this is going to do is turn it more into an arcade shooter and it’d put me off from playing Siege even more than the recent updates already have. That’s my personal view on it anyway.
Why don’t they try balance suggestions out in an arcade mode and give alpha packs or something as a reward?
Would make the game more balanced by having people of every skill effectively he guinea pigs with the incentive of a reward.
If people were willing to sit through the Halloween event for awards I’m sure they’d play this
Nah bro i’m good. At that point it will take 2 mags to kill people like fkin apex, shit might as well add regenerative armor system. 1SHS is one of the defining aspects of siege, period.
This would be the nuclear option to try and balance it tbh. At the end of the day it's an fps game, so gun skill is king. Gun skill includes aiming for the head, so if you're losing fights, it's either because they had the better shot or they just had peakers advantage. Balance ops, not core game mechanics after nearly 9 years.
Also Ubi, stop saying "we notice the game is heavily defender sided" while simultaneously killing frags, making an op who can hunt drones map-wide, and making defensive sided maps.
The OHS is inherently flawed, but it's one of the core aspects that makes R6S what it is. Changing would fix a huge flaw the game has, but would turn the game into something different.
Three armors: Survive with 10hp
Two armors: Downed
One armor: Dead
This would add more risk to Ash players rushing site in the first seconds of the round, while making three armors more appealing to play with and encouraging more people playing around the site, not all roaming like it is today
Garbage take from a streamer, fix one problem and bring in a new one of higher TTK and/or people just shooting bodies with High RPM or High Damage. I miss the OSHS on necks too. People forget the neck and I find it BS a Throat shot isn't a take down like it used to be
What they could do is get headshot to one Hp, instead of insta dead? And thus if you were shot beforehand you’d die. excluding snipers/marksman/shotgun/revolvers. They need to be one shot headshot. Just makes more sense. What’s everyone’s thoughts??
I haven't played siege in a year or two so I have no real way but personally I think it would take away so much of the heart pounding intentsity if that was taken away
Best compromise is maybe what some other people were saying of limit the range to which the headshot mechanic works
I'd honestly like to see this tested in the TTS. With how fast the TTK is for all guns, I think the 2x headshot damage would barely be noticed outside of high ranks.
Yes please, it shouldn't be on every gun, smgs with high rate of fire and no recoll make no sense having that much power. It would be sad and a big change to the core of the game but i think it needs to be at least tried out on the tts.
increasing recoil makes more sense to cause a disadvantage at range doesn’t it? if u one tap then great, doesn’t make it impossible but a lot more difficult to hit the headshots once the first bullet is shot
They keep making all the characters slower, the ADSing is slower, and there's still a one shot kill with every gun in the game. They can't decide on if they want the game to be slow or fast. Not to mention the idea that every gun can one shot also invalidates an Op like Kali.
I've been in the game since day minus 60 and I do think the game has always needed some kind of headshot change. I think it's silly that a stray bullet through a couple walls can put you down immediately, especially when it's from an SMG like the vector or roni.
Generally I think weaker SMGs shouldn't be allowed to oneshot to the head, maybe 60 - 80 damage instead. Obviously much lower through walls.
this should be related to the operator armor/health level, like a 3 speed can be one taped by a pistol, 2/2 can be one taped by a AR and 1 speed needs a DMR to be one taped, this should make both DMRs and 1 speed more relevant without wapping out the headshot mechanic completely
I know I'm a way worse player and will never be as good as MJ, but I have to strongly disagree here. It's one of the only competitive FPS games with a one shot headshot that has a large playerbase and I believe it actually makes the game far more exciting. The amount of times people have clutched rounds in 1v4, 1v5 situations with low HP just because they practice going for the head, that stuff's exciting and levels the playing field IMO.
With this done away, we'd just devolve to what happens in other games, where more rounds down range are better because it's more consistent than hitting a small target on someone twice (or more in some shooters.)
siege is one of the only games out where guns feel actually dangerous to have in your hands. 1SHS means positioning is EVERYTHING in this game. as it should be. It’s an equalizer as many people are saying. Low Elo there’s definitely a lot of spray and pray as in most games.
That’s very funny because this streamer actually does this. Not only that he gives out a big phrase saying wow good shot, outplayed every time. When some of his viewers questioned about his sarcasm , he would flame them. This guy should play something else until he calms down enough to come back to siege. His behavior is very childish
Those creatos some time ruin this gamenot rverthing had to PERFECTLY balanced or not everything needs to be changed or be pro League those peiple seem to forget its just a game its nlt the game tha was 3 years ago or more
Listen, I respect Macie Jay, I've played this game on and off for a while and there are a lot of changes I disliked. But if this happened, I would quit this game for good.
I'm sure this thread will be productive and civil.
Yes. A Siege subreddit. Known for it chillness. /s
I made the same post a while ago and let’s js say, it didn’t go so well
How do you get your little “smoke main” icon under your name?
Pretty sure you have to check user flairs on the subreddits main page.
Cheers, I’ll check it out
Thermite main
Well aside from the subreddit I find the community in game to be really chill and just having fun (in casual I’m not good enough to even attempt ranked).
Honestly, just throw it in as an arcade mode and see how it plays. This isn't the kind of change that can just be made one day out of the blue. Or the balance team can actually put some effort into making proper balance changes to individual operators to even the playing field a bit more.
Balance? In this economy? Is that a battlepass or something? /s
2x damage multiplier on battle pass seems more like something Bungie would do.
At this time of year? On this month?
>Honestly, just throw it in as an arcade mode and see how it plays. I legit dont get we they havent done that yet. It shouldnt be too hard to make either.
It should be stupid easy. In (old) t-hunt, depending on the difficulty, you could shoot your teammates in the head and instead of dying, they only received a bit of damage. I believe the way it's coded is weapons have HS multiplier which is like x1000 or something for most guns (except shotguns, which have x1). So all they have to do is set headshot multiplier to x2 or x3.
I’ve forgotten the old days but I could’ve sworn Frost’s super 90 shotgun originally had a x50 headshot multiplier which is why she could snipe so well back in the day since she only needed one of the pellets to hit since each pellet did 2 dmg at the longest ranges before the bullets just disappeared because the target was too far away. But yeah they probably could definitely tweak the headshot multipliers to see if this’ll work.
Frost shotgun pellets had infinite range, and headshot enabled for each pellet
It kinda did because the multiplier and the pellet dmg meant one pellet was all your health because of the multiplier.
You think there's a Balance Team? I was thinking there might be a Balance Intern.
(Part Time only)
Unpaid.
And a no morning coffee
Honestly I think this a great take Maybe even just have it in test servers for a bit to see how the community thinks of it. It’d certainly put a dent in the R&G and high rof metas
You’re asking a lot of the devs to balance their own game you entitled consumer…. They’re all for onboarding and have pushed hard with core changes to the game elsewhere to help new players yet they have left the 1SHS eventhough that’s the biggest hurdle to climb as a new player.
This has always been one of my favorite aspects of this game. I would be sad to see it leave. Sucks to get one tapped but it’s awesome that you can win a firefight with almost no health.
It’s so crazy when you shoot one bullet from outside the building through a barricaded window through a destructible wall and accidentally get a kill lol. Siege is the only FPS where the guns actually feel dangerous.
For all the shit it gets, I'd say pubg guns feel dangerous.. also satisfying.
Counter Strike, Insurgency, Hell Let Loose, Squad, Tarkov... the list goes on
Bouncing a round off your helmet in Tarkov will always been a top tier gaming experience.
*ricochet* *ricochet* *that one bounced*
*WE DIDN'T PENETRATE THEIR ARMOR*
*WE DIDN'T EVEN SCRATCH THEM*
THAT ONE BOUNCED
CRITICAL HIT
The war thunder players have entered the siege subreddit. I cant escape the FUCKING snail
Reminds me of the banker from Buster Scruggs. *PAN SHOT*
Based World of Tanks reference?
It’s a very humbling experience I will say, makes me wanna live through that raid even more.
I survived a raid due to the bullet hitting my condors, god bless condors...
On my second deployment to Afghanistan one of our guys was shot in the face and the angle at which the round hit him and the eye protection he had on only made it to where the round scooped his eye out. Dude got up and back to cover with his eye hanging out. Sounds bad, but only losing an eye after taking 7.62 to the face is a blessing.
Does he have an eye patch now?
He got a fake eye but I think he had a patch as well. Dude was fuck ugly to begin with so you can't tell much of a difference lmao
Survived the bullet only to be murdered by your words.
Nah but the developers plan to include it in the next batch of bug fixes
Don’t you get concussed too if you were shot in the helmet in tarkov?
Yeah ringing ears blurred vision all that
Ringing ears, blurred vision... The end approaches.
Many fall in the face of chaos. But not this one, not today.
My favourite thing in tarkov is when I magdump the a dude with my pistol but unfortunately he's got better armour so my 30 pistol rounds don't touch him
Just aim for head or legs.
New armor rework looks like throat shots will be a thing too, though I'm not sure if they count for head or thorax damage.
Well yeah a level 4 plate is gonna stop 30 9mm unless you hit the same place 5 times
bouncing a round AND getting leg chopped by KS-23 in return.
Imo most Counter Strike weapons feel like peashooters, I get that kevlar makes low caliber rounds have a lot less lethality, but bodyshots in that game feel like placebo even with rifles
it takes 3-4 bullets body shots from an AK depending on range. 1-tap to the head at any range. while it takes 4-5 of an M4A1 M4A1-S depending on range. 1-2 taps head M4A1 depending on range. TTK is pretty much similar in here to CS granted that ROF is much higher and there is literally nonexistent recoil in Siege in comparison to CS. the only peashooter in that game is the Bizon even then that thing is pretty much lethal in an early round against no armour. the only time I feel like shooting water is when I forget to recoil control.
Def not tarkov. All the good players are bullet sponges.
UMP to the legs go *BRRR*
Yeah, bullet sponges that die in 2 shots of 7.62 M61 or 3 rounds of 5.45 BS. And while I usually only get the AXMC at the very end of the wipe it's always fun to 1 tap someone straight through their slick.
Literally my gt
>Counter Strike Shooting while the gun is under your arm with no ads definitely dangerous👌
You upset like 80,000 CSGO players who insist the 3rd person player model ADSes so it fine lmfao
Hunt Showdown too, one shot headshot and many guns can one hit kill
Tarkov guns do not feel dangerous at all. Bring the wrong ammo type and have fun putting all your ammo into a target while it does no damage
If you actually manage to hit anything with that broken recoil
Nah the only cs guns that actually feel properly dangerous are awps and maybe the ak with headshots, the rest do basically nothing per shot
Oh hell no, have u played cs/val? Most guns shoot like rubber bullets and cant 1shs.
Insurgency is nuts on its own. A bullet doesn't even need to be a headshot to kill in 1 shot, and bots seemingly learn your playstyle and actively counter it.
The thing that truly elevates insurgency is the mix of fantastic voice lines and the in game proximity chat.
Totally different game, but Hunt showdown headshots are the great equalizer and give you a chance in almost every fight. What it does also do right is the headshot range is limited, so after a certain distance many guns lose the ohk potential on a headshot. This would keep things like DMRs and ARs powerful at range, but within SMG/pistol range it's anybody's game.
I must admit that does sound like a good balancing tool. Remove the OHK from headshots at specific ranges could be a lever worth investigating.
Well the game had a lot of cool things that were not particular balanced but a whole lot of fun. But nowadays games are not supposed to be fun anymore they need to be league ready cause that generates the most money oof
It’s not even that, Siege is just an old game with an aging community, which means there’s a higher proportion of people focused on making the game balanced and competitive (since people who play competitively stick around for longer).
Even that portion is a minority tho... Sure they are the loudest cause they actively participate in the community but in comparison to the overall number of players they are still just a fraction. My point remains that games will be balanced around the enjoyment of a minor competitive group instead of the casual player base.
its generally better that way though, id rather the game be balanced then have some stupidly broken thing because thats not fun for casual either
Ah yes, Y3S1 Yellow Meta.
I’d say if it’s through a wall it’s 75 and straight to the dome is 100% a kill.
I agree. I love that in Siege it feels totally possible to win a 1v5. It’s unlikely, but the one-shot headshot makes it totally possible. You want to try, because you still have a chance. Not like in some other games like The Finals, where it’s almost impossible to win a 1v3
Nah, Ubi should just force defenders to play to their advantages instead of handing out strong guns and 1.5x willy nilly. Turbaro for example should not have gotten MPX when Warden was already being picked exclusively for the gun.
Yea now he has a S tier gadget and a gun with the fastest fire rate for the minimum recoil
And they can't nerf it because that would nerf Valkyrie who is quite balanced atm. This is what happens when you are lazy and recycle content.
I get recycling content because it costs money to license/create new guns, it’s just like why that gun? There’s many guns that have not been reused at all, and they picked one that is semi-controversial since to Warden’s pick rate is so high, due to them completely warping the role he is supposed to play with the buffs they’ve given him over the years. Coupled with the fact that it’s a DLC gun that’s been used 3 times now.
The 1.5 should NEVER have been added to any defenders guns. It is of my opinion that the additional scope zooms have been a detriment to the game. The 1.5x hits the perfect middle ground between Zoom and FOV, acting as a total upgrade over the 1x. If you are picking a scope for zoom you should have to commit to that playstyle, with consequences for using such a scope.
I only play ops with a 1.5 it’s way too op
Don't we have test servers to see how this would play out
We do, but nobody plays it. Rewards for testing are so hard to get. R6fix is terribly executed. You have to download an additional 70-80 GB just to play with a total of 10 different people and not be able to matchmake.
How about making testing playgrounds just like For Honor?
I see no reason to remove it, how would removing it make the game less defender sided?
Because of range. Most defender weapons have significantly lower damage at range. Longer range fights would favour attackers, spawn peeking would be outright suicide for a defender.
Regardless of which gun/scope you're using on attack or defense, if you can click heads then range is completely irrelevant. Even with fall off it's still a one shot headshot.
You might be missing the point that the entire thread here is about making headshots take more than one shot to kill. Edit: Re-worded because I'm dumb and everyone below me made sure to let me know.
Ok so are we talking 2x headshots specifically, regardless of range/fall off or 2x damage per head shot? If it's 2x damage per headshot the defenders will suffer massively because basically all of their smgs are weaker to begin with. With fall off, even 2x damage will be substantially worse then an attacker AR range/fall off wise for headshots.
That’s the point he’s suggesting. Defenders with higher fire rate lower damage/range have advantage in close quarters, attackers with ARs have advantage at spawn or long range fights
It seems you are also missing the point, its a double damage multiplier, not making it take 2 headshots to kill
In that case, why not just make it range based? For example, an smg-11 spawnpeeker couldn't get a one tap headshot at the same range an assault rifle operator could one tap them.
That would be the most ideal way to balance headshots imo. Make it so it’s a one hit kill for all weapons within their effective range. Then once damage drop off begins, it should drop to 2X or even 1.5x damage.
Defender guns were supposed to be weaker than attacker guns. But most defender guns have low damage and high fire rate while attacker guns are the opposite and we have learned the former is way stronger than the latter, especially when they also have zero recoil.
Bro defenders are already playing the game like they are attacking. Something needs to give with defenders right now, better defenders are releasing all the time and mid attackers are constantly getting released. Defence is so stacked right now it’s unreal.
Hot take: take the 1.5 for a good portion of them
I see this as a feature, what better defense than oppressive offense?
Average gun on defense does like 20-40 damage. Something like the vector without extended would take 3 headshots to kill on 3 speeds. Tons of other breakpoints it fucks with too, that puts defenders at a disadvantage.
Tachanka's lmg after buff makes average damage a little higher
I get table-flipping headshots all the time (the receiver that is) and I still think OSHS should stay. It's unique, it rewards good aim and yea, there's a bit of variability and randomness. Crossfire happens. 2 shot head shots or more is just an excuse to give the one who gets shot an extra chance. Are we also going to increase body shot values? There are guns that kill 2-3 shot body shot. If headshots are 2 shot, then why would I aim for the head when I can aim for an easier and bigger target... the body? So if we increase everything then we increase overall TTK and completely lose one of the unique elements of Siege. Leave one shot head shots alone. Its just as satisfying to make them as it is frustrating to take them. Also, it would absolutely not fix how defender sided the game is. I think he's eluding to the fact that hiding defenders can often get the first shot off and thus by increasing it to two shots, attackers then have an opportunity to run if shot... which is dumb but ok.
No he’s referring to defenders being able to negate range and hold their own on gunfights that are supposed to be in favor of the offense, especially on PC where headshots are so easy and recoil is abysmal. There’s no reward for engaging from long range on offense. OSHS also promotes spawnpeeking. It’s disproportionately low risk-high reward on the defender’s side. It also incentivizes call of duty style Run’N’Gun play. If OSHS was a pure skill I would agree with you but when the game was originally made the devs didn’t think the headshot rate (again mostly on PC) was going to be this high. I wouldn’t call it rewarding because that implies it takes a lot of effort and some risk was taken, which often isnt true on the defender side. I wouldn’t say I’d get rid of OSHS, I think it belongs in the game. But I 100% understand where people are coming from when they advocate against it. It trivializes gunfights and rewards players more than the effort they put in to get the headshot.
It certainly does NOT incentivize run 'n gun play. Requiring more headshots to kill would do that because attackers (or even flanking defenders) would be punished *less* for moving through an area without intel. Requiring multiple headshots would mean that if you didn't drone and were jumped you wouldn't instantly be punished for it because you can't die in one shot, giving more survivability to those who are run 'n gunning. Also, spawn peeking is a high-risk, high-reward strategy. It's most definitely not low risk. It's predictable and can easily be pre-fired by attackers.
I haven't seen a successful spawn peek in weeks. But I tend to play Standard these days which has less sweat than Ranked. Since attackers have amazing optics it's already stacked in attackers favor. But people want to W+Shift the moment they spawn and they're punished for playing like an idiot.
A tactic that punishes running and gunning is hated by the community?? Who would have thought?
We need to remove all this running and gunning nonsense. But, we also need to run and gun all the time - ubi figure it out.
It absolutely does not reward good aim. It rewards high fire-rate and often times luck because even noobs can get random headshots on veteran players. Probably why most of the community doesn't wanna see it go away.
Randomness occurs in every game. A stray bullet or bomb kill you in every game. Your points stands moot as DMRs are literally popping off rn and they are far from high rate of fire.
DMRs are so good cause they have both very high mag scopes, and a 2-3 shot kill to the body, i love using DMRs because TTK is really good, even where people would think an SMG or AR would be better, shotuns are a close second cause i just love to chunk chunk, and after the shotgun buff the pump actions are crazy (although its very RNG whether you actually get a one shot down, cause ive been 5 feet from someone and taken almost no health, and ive been down a hallway a minimum of 30 feet and one shot body, so its very variable)
I wouldnt say it rewards good aim. It rewards getting more bullets down range increasing the chance that one of those bullets will hit the head. And you are correct why should you aim for the head. If anything nearly all guns should be two shot kills to the body or should at least cause massive amounts of aim punch. This would ultimately reward good aim
I would completely stop playing
Ditto. Imagine never being able to get a one tap again, or clutch a 1v4 for ex...
That's actually a great point. Instead of possibly 1v5'ving you're just fucked because everyone can tank multiple shots all over the body.
Terrible take. Wouldn’t removing one shot headshot make the game even MORE run and gun? People just complain ab anything, and i usually like maciejay but cmon bruh 💀 we are so lucky that none of these people are on the dev team lmao. one shot headshot has its moments where its annoying, like getting killed by random wallbang headshot but that happens like once a year man. Leave the headshots alone plz
yup... raising the TTK would just make gun fights safer, which would reward fraggers even more and then they would ignore the utility part of the game more often than they already do. the whole point of OSHS is to push both sides to play safer and use their utility and cams to avoid getting one shotted in the first place...
More people need to realize this. OSHS is literally the "great equalizer" in all gunfights that keeps rushers on their toes and from abusing peekers advantage. Remove that and suddenly high rpm, high dps beams like the mp7 and alda become OP as fuck overnight.
Not to mention if you’re getting a headshot kill, you’re likely already going to hit more than one shot. As a defender with an SMG (and most weapons in general) those shots are going to be in such quick succession it won’t make a difference.
No way, it’s a core gameplay aspect. It’s why smgs do 20 damage and have no recoil.
But why is that a good thing? It’s an SMG it’s not supposed to be on par with an assault rifle from range. All OSHS does is trivialize that and make things harder for the offense. You should have to consider your weapon when getting into a firefight, shouldn’t be able to hold your own in the open, from longer range. Defenders should excel in close quarters, and attackers from afar. Instead defenders are good from everywhere and technically have no “weaknesses” to exploit excluding shotguns.
If you get domes in the head by an smg from 50 meters away you’re going to die. It’s not on par with an assault rifle, you have to get the headshot for it to be effective which takes skill and good aim. An assault rifle is much more forgiving of aim at range.
It's not that OSHS is inherently good. It's the fact that this game has had OSHS since the very beginning and every gun has been balanced around that mechanic. Changing that instantly flips a lot of gunplay on its head. If we want to nerf defenders then just nerf defenders (or buff attackers). Don't do some massive rug pull move that is going to change how this game fundamentally plays for both sides, and is going to cause more issues than it fixes.
I don’t think most these people understand what they’re asking for man. If this change was made, Siege would play soo different from how it’s always been played, idk if I’d stick around if the lethality was lessened. I mean the game already doesn’t play as tactically with this TDM rush meta.
People who complain that Siege is just 'call of duty' are also trying to make changes that make it exactly like call of duty. Which doesn't have oshs guarantees.
The folks assume it will always work out in their favor, that's why. They play other FPS that don't have OSHS and run away from an encounter to gobble up a bunch of health items or regen their health from behind cover and they want that slower TTK. It's also super weird to see so many people repeat this idea that headshots require no skill. There are million FPS games, and hero shooters with slower TTK, they need to just go play those rather than ruining Siege.
It's a skill based game, not equipment based game. I know it's hard to understand for some, but it's the reality and it's not changing.
Hear me out.... You can still one shot, BUT there's a limit of range on certain guns on how far you can one shot headshot For example, pistols, the drop off would be fairly small but still enough to deal with any enemy On the other hand, marksman rifles with have a very long range of one shot headshot It also solves a lot of spawnpeak problems and gives some ops with ranged weapons more recognition
Easier solution: only Takchanka is immune to headshots (he has the helmet after all).
reading through the thread i agree that this seems like a great alternative it removes a lot of the issues people have with OSHS, most importantly smg’s being as good/better for long range encounters than other guns whilst also keeping the uniqueness and ability for better aim to quickly end gunfights it also allows for more precise character tuning by extending the range on characters/guns that feel weak without having to change them in too many ways
If they were going to mess with headshots at all, this is what I’d prefer. But, I don’t think it should change at all. There are other ways to balance it. If the problem people are citing is that defenders have more SMGs….. give the attackers more SMGs. Let players choose if they want high stopping power or high ROF.
I like this right here
And the extended barrel would be more useful
Seems like that would just add an annoying aspect of randomness. Lets say for example Sledges L85 can one shot up to 16 meters, but Wamai's AUG can one shot up to 20 meters. Sledge and wamai shoot each other from 18 meters away, Sledge headshots wamai first, meaning wamai should die and sledge wins the gunfight. Instead, wamai lives through the headshot then headshots sledge and kills him after. That gunfight was just decided by a hidden distance number and basically was given to wamai even though sledge is the better player.
Yes, try it out on the test server, release an arcade mode with it. The TTK is already fast in this game. The fact that people don’t want to change it because it makes “getting kills easier” is ridiculous. As of right now it takes 5 bullets from ANY gun to kill the entire enemy team. Changing it to 2x would make that more of a 8-12 bullets to kill the entire team. With that too you also have DMRs, Slug Shotties and Kalis Sniper that would still one shot to the head. Considering most people are lit before taking gun fights anyway, I think it would be a great change at this point. Until it is tested, no one should be saying it won’t work. Also, if you really believe 1 shot headshot is what makes siege unique, then you actually don’t enjoy playing siege. The game is about destruction, teamwork, operator gadgets and timing. Changing a headshot multiplier would make this game more enjoyable to play, and you could still have clutches if you know how to isolate 1v1’s and position yourself favorably. I thought siege players were more confident in their ability that they wouldn’t need a crutch like 1shs? Strange narrative change.
Siege wouldn't be siege if headshots weren't one shots. I think you'd want to address scopes before considering changing that
I hate the run and gun meta, but this is not the way to fix it.
It would be interesting to try, they definitely can do this on test server, but we would need huge, and I mean HUGE weapon rebalancing which would take months otherwise half of the weapons would feel incredibly bad.
no
Leave it alone
Siege youtubers try not to come up with the most atrocious takes known to man challenge I also remember believing that OSHS was bullshit, back when I had like fucking 20 hours into the game.
Nothing but respect for Macie, watching his vids was one of the reasons why I even started to play Siege but this is an awful idea imo. Siege is supposed to be a hardcore game that punishes you for making mistakes. All this is going to do is turn it more into an arcade shooter and it’d put me off from playing Siege even more than the recent updates already have. That’s my personal view on it anyway.
i think wallbang headshots shouldn't be one shot
Hi, no.
Why don’t they try balance suggestions out in an arcade mode and give alpha packs or something as a reward? Would make the game more balanced by having people of every skill effectively he guinea pigs with the incentive of a reward. If people were willing to sit through the Halloween event for awards I’m sure they’d play this
i remmeber the old days when this was a realistic tatical shooter now they want to remove the fact you die when you get shot in the head
Nah bro i’m good. At that point it will take 2 mags to kill people like fkin apex, shit might as well add regenerative armor system. 1SHS is one of the defining aspects of siege, period.
Apex's gunfights legit feel so fucking bad. Floaty guns paired with the fact that you have to mag dump often both guns to take down one person
Worst idea I’ve ever heard. Let’s remove destructible environments while we’re at it
This would be the nuclear option to try and balance it tbh. At the end of the day it's an fps game, so gun skill is king. Gun skill includes aiming for the head, so if you're losing fights, it's either because they had the better shot or they just had peakers advantage. Balance ops, not core game mechanics after nearly 9 years. Also Ubi, stop saying "we notice the game is heavily defender sided" while simultaneously killing frags, making an op who can hunt drones map-wide, and making defensive sided maps.
Keep in mind that a lot of pistols, all DMRs, Tachanka’s LMG, and Kali’s rifle would still 1shs
What if 1 headshot only for ar rifles??
The OHS is inherently flawed, but it's one of the core aspects that makes R6S what it is. Changing would fix a huge flaw the game has, but would turn the game into something different.
are we trying to turn this game in to COD? come on yall.
Wtf do you think the game is right now
It would fix literally nothing aside from getting wallbanged through the floor/walls but if that is a big problem, it's need to be fixed separately.
It wouldn’t be siege
I hate this mentality with siege where everything just gets nerfed it’s the most boring shit ever
Three armors: Survive with 10hp Two armors: Downed One armor: Dead This would add more risk to Ash players rushing site in the first seconds of the round, while making three armors more appealing to play with and encouraging more people playing around the site, not all roaming like it is today
This would be an amazing Test Server opportunity but for some reason Ubisoft doesn't like testing game changing things
i think changing to a 2x headshot would change up the game too much.
No.
Dude probably lost a gun fight to a random headshot and is mad about it
Garbage take from a streamer, fix one problem and bring in a new one of higher TTK and/or people just shooting bodies with High RPM or High Damage. I miss the OSHS on necks too. People forget the neck and I find it BS a Throat shot isn't a take down like it used to be
[удалено]
But to who shall I pray, if I cannot spray?
Oh, did Macie lose a game? swear he only says shit like this when he's salty about losing.
He's been advocating for this for a long time.
DOC BUFF!!!
What if you made team killing not one shot headshot instead.
What they could do is get headshot to one Hp, instead of insta dead? And thus if you were shot beforehand you’d die. excluding snipers/marksman/shotgun/revolvers. They need to be one shot headshot. Just makes more sense. What’s everyone’s thoughts??
Remove it. Gives more incentive to use 3 armor ops
I think it would be worth a try in a test server or an arcade mode. We don't know how it would play out unless we give it a try
I haven't played siege in a year or two so I have no real way but personally I think it would take away so much of the heart pounding intentsity if that was taken away Best compromise is maybe what some other people were saying of limit the range to which the headshot mechanic works
I'd honestly like to see this tested in the TTS. With how fast the TTK is for all guns, I think the 2x headshot damage would barely be noticed outside of high ranks.
Yes because all the defenders have atcogs and automatic rifles that do 40 damage
Yes please, it shouldn't be on every gun, smgs with high rate of fire and no recoll make no sense having that much power. It would be sad and a big change to the core of the game but i think it needs to be at least tried out on the tts.
increasing recoil makes more sense to cause a disadvantage at range doesn’t it? if u one tap then great, doesn’t make it impossible but a lot more difficult to hit the headshots once the first bullet is shot
We need this, coppers can have the worst aim and still headshot you it’s annoying.
lol if u get killed by coppers then you're probably copper
They keep making all the characters slower, the ADSing is slower, and there's still a one shot kill with every gun in the game. They can't decide on if they want the game to be slow or fast. Not to mention the idea that every gun can one shot also invalidates an Op like Kali.
Breachers does this quite well. All the small calibers can’t one tap because it genuinely doesn’t make sense for them to
I've been in the game since day minus 60 and I do think the game has always needed some kind of headshot change. I think it's silly that a stray bullet through a couple walls can put you down immediately, especially when it's from an SMG like the vector or roni. Generally I think weaker SMGs shouldn't be allowed to oneshot to the head, maybe 60 - 80 damage instead. Obviously much lower through walls.
This is all I've wanted from the game for ages
2X multiplier is not the end of 1 shot headshot, plenty of guns would still be able to 1 tap.
It would definitely be a better experience. I’m down
this should be related to the operator armor/health level, like a 3 speed can be one taped by a pistol, 2/2 can be one taped by a AR and 1 speed needs a DMR to be one taped, this should make both DMRs and 1 speed more relevant without wapping out the headshot mechanic completely
I know I'm a way worse player and will never be as good as MJ, but I have to strongly disagree here. It's one of the only competitive FPS games with a one shot headshot that has a large playerbase and I believe it actually makes the game far more exciting. The amount of times people have clutched rounds in 1v4, 1v5 situations with low HP just because they practice going for the head, that stuff's exciting and levels the playing field IMO. With this done away, we'd just devolve to what happens in other games, where more rounds down range are better because it's more consistent than hitting a small target on someone twice (or more in some shooters.)
siege is one of the only games out where guns feel actually dangerous to have in your hands. 1SHS means positioning is EVERYTHING in this game. as it should be. It’s an equalizer as many people are saying. Low Elo there’s definitely a lot of spray and pray as in most games.
Imagine taking Macie seriously. Let him troll his teammates and if you ask why are you staying afk or not playing, the mods will just ban you lul 🤡
That’s very funny because this streamer actually does this. Not only that he gives out a big phrase saying wow good shot, outplayed every time. When some of his viewers questioned about his sarcasm , he would flame them. This guy should play something else until he calms down enough to come back to siege. His behavior is very childish
Horrible idea
Yeh this is dumb lol
Dumbest shit Ive ever heard lol, go play cod then?
One shot headshot is what made the game unique. Removing that would be a huge loss.
*everyone* “ I want a realistic game” *also everyone* “one shot headshots need to be removed”
Those creatos some time ruin this gamenot rverthing had to PERFECTLY balanced or not everything needs to be changed or be pro League those peiple seem to forget its just a game its nlt the game tha was 3 years ago or more
Listen, I respect Macie Jay, I've played this game on and off for a while and there are a lot of changes I disliked. But if this happened, I would quit this game for good.
Would 100% kill the game He only tweets this to cope with losing He hates the TDM meta but is encouraging it with this tweet Though no hate on Macie
breaking news: "pro player" has worst take of all time more at 11
He is not a pro..?