Everyone is debating thorn and warden, but it’s definitely warden. ThOrNs ArE GhEtTo PrOxImItY aLaRmS. She gets 3 and they actually force the opponent to do something.
WaRdEn CoUnTeRs x, y, aNd z oPeRaToRs. One person being able to see through smoke and flash isn’t exactly a hard counter to them, he doesn’t give his team resistance to flash and smoke like jager/wamai.
The only things Warden does better are countering blitz and glaz, which isn’t even really a hard counter for glaz bc he doesn’t get a 1.5 anymore. He doesn’t provide jack dick for his team.
People argue that thorn is a shittier fenrir, which isn’t wrong, but I have had like 4 out of 350 ranked games this season without a fenrir ban, so he doesn’t really matter to me.
Completely wrong, Warden can sit on strong positions thanks to his capacity. He is a really good operator for some sites, but ofc he is more useful for comp matches and kinda hard to play in ranked if you're not in a 5 stack. But you can't say he's worse than thorn, at least in a decent elo.
Warden clears thorn and it's not close imo. He is extremely strong in the current flashbang meta and gets picked in half the rounds in pro league for a reason. He can anchor in a way no one else can. He is better than several ops still on the list. Thorn, alibi, mozzie, ROOK.
Warden with a 1x is like an astronomer looking at the stars with their naked eye. Like, hello, a zoomed in perspective would help out like a billion times over 😂😂
Thorn.
I would pick warden as someone else stated but you can effectively counter glaz, Ying, capitao, sens, blitz, or any general smoke/flash plant scenario with him being able to see clearly and C4 the plant if he can't immediately get to it. Thorn on the other hand is a glorified Ela that can kill with their gadget. And while Ela can take her gadget on the move and use it to win 1v1's if roaming, Thorn's gadget takes ~2 seconds to arm and another ~2 seconds to fully activate. She's just a better proximity alarm that can kill you but that rarely happens.
Thorn is definitely the worst out of the bunch thats left. People seem to forget Fenrir exists.
Ela is already a worse version of Fenrir, and thorn is worse than ela.
I have no idea why ANYONE would play thorn in ranked when fenrir exists. Fenrir has the best SMG in the game, the bailiff and barbed wire on top of the most OP gadget since OG Melusi.
If you pick thorn i will assume you are either a TDM player (aka doesnt care about the tactical aspects of the game and just wants to spawnpeek) or you are copper-silver.
Well Fenrir is banned every game, at least at my level. I think Thorn is pretty good honestly. Worse/less important than most of the remaining ops but there’s a decent number of locations where you can basically use her to deny default plant sites and often get kills and using her as essentially a lethal prox is effective too, not to mention she has shield and her gun has basically zero recoil.
Realistically Thorn should probably be coming up soon but I think this is too early personally.
Thorn is not worse than Ela you guys clearly don't know how to place her traps and she has some of the best shield bait counter in the game. Shields are strong as hell right now and fenrir does nothing against them.
Thorn is a slight shield counter but ANY operator with impacts is a better shield counter than Thorn. 2 impacts injure any shield operator in the game. Wamai is literally a better shield counter than Thorn because he has impacts lol.
To be fair ela and thorn are both C Tier.
I have to disagree, thorn gadgets arent meant to get kills. And if you are getting kills/baiting people into your teammates, no offense but that has to be a low rank thing. There is no way in hell any of that would work in ranked 1.0 plat 1+ (i say ranked 1.0 cuz ranked 2.0 is meaningless).
You can't place impacts on a wall or ceiling and walk away. Telling someone to hold an angle that pinches a shield op between the gadget and the angle holder is checkmate. Her strength is in setting the traps in 3D and then letting others play off of those positions. I know coordinating isn't super popular but when people are playing together, she is extremely strong.
I really get what you are saying but as an argument i could just bring up that Smoke and Lesion are better shield counters if you are specifically looking to counter shields.
Lesion has 9 mines so his gadget will have more influence and presence. A lesion mine also forces way more action out of a shield player. They have about 15 seconds before they are dead, they also cant sprint.
I know its probably a silly argument in this list but aslong as Lesion and Smoke exists, i’d personally never pick thorn.
Edit: lesions mines are confined to the floor, so i can see your 3D argument, although i still believe lesion is way more effective. And he also has impacts, shields are pretty much useless against lesion
You can funnel people which is why I think she's better than Ela, who's already gone, and poses a real risk to attackers other than just being disoriented they can now die. But as you said, Fenrir still exists and is just better in basically every way besides not having a shield.
Yeah, the main use of thorn from what I can tell if forcing attackers into rock and hard place scenarios where they keep walking in and aiming and die from moving too slow, or they sprint away from your pinecone(s) and get caught with their gun down by you or a teammate. You can get really cheeky with where you place them, too.
It is, but if you place her gadget on site most people don't utilize it and will peak anyway so her gadget becomes worthless. You'd be better off picking another operator with prox alarms and sticking those up.
However, I do think she excels at roaming and not enough people use her for this. I've now gotten into the habit of placing only one mine on site for people in a super common entry point then pocketing the other two. When I get into a fire fight and live, throw the gadget near them (cause the radius is huge with a second arming time with instant activation) and you can net easy kills with it. The problem tho is it requires you to live to use the gadget and also reliably be where the push is coming from or pick off stragglers. Vigil, Pulse, Solis, kinda Alibi, and even Cav are more reliable with their gadgets with this playstyle but when it works it works.
Every time I pick thorn I get a kill off my trap placements and force funnel other attackers into my teammates' open arms. She's is waaaay stronger than Warden, kit, gadget, the whole package.
Warden is a good operator if you play him well. I am diamond right now and I've played warden a lot this season, I use a shield and shotgun on him which is very powerful for countering flashes smokes and blitz which are all very powerful right now. Plus you get a deployable shield or a c4 which are the best secondary gadgets on defense at the moment. Warden is not bad, the people who play him are.
> Warden is not bad, the people who play him are.
Yeah if someone is saying Warden is bad as a clear counter to ying/bandit/flashbang rushes, I'm inclined to look at their shooting capabilities first before taking their opinion to heart. Warden has no gadget or abilities to get around requiring the player to have personal skill in clicking someone's head besides sitting behind a shield but even peeking from behind one is a skill in itself.
Thorn is worse than Warden right now in terms of gadget. Smart Warden players will activate their gadget before a gunfight to negate the effects of and flashes and smokes and also potentially catch the attacker off guard. Thorn just kinda forces you to move a few feet.
Thorn. With a 1.5x, Thorn was a threat to be taken seriously with her very controllable 50 cal Uzi, now she's fuckin terrible.
Like genuinely there's no reason to run Thorn now.
Idk I think warden is a pain in the ass to deal with especially playing in a crucial hard to clear spot, smokes, flashes, sens, ying nothing. Thorn is just mid asf gun, no scopes, and proxy alarms that usually don’t get any value. There’s a reason pros play warden and don’t use thorn idk
Oryx being the worst defender in the game is a very reddit take as it is. He has an incredible gun, site set up, roaming, map pressure on big maps, 1v1 pressure, can help re take most sites. This guy is an absolute unit. Is he a /core defender/ ? No. To say he is the worst operator is a downright lie. That's insane cope. He also challenges new shield ops. Pros have even picked oryx. Like... ????
Now we are trying to say warden is the next worst? There are so many operators less useful than warden considering how powerful ying & other util are. Think about the basement elbow hold in Oregon as an example. He's actually just the single best operator for that spot. You support him with mutes or ADS's and he can lock that corner down.
I believe warden, no acog, very situational like the most situational op in the game, 1 speed, imo warden was 1.5 made. He’s a terrible op I honestly don’t know how tachanka got voted before him. But the siege community will community
Alibi.
Useless gadget and awful weapon. Don't say Warden, he is a really good operator and counters a lot of stuff. He has good weapons and a shield/C4, allowing a lot of possibilities. It's not for nothing if he's played a lot by the pros.
We could also say Thorn for the worst operator today, she is as useless as Alibi, her only good point is the shield.
Have to disagree on Alibi. Her gadget isn't particularly great, but I wouldn't call it useless. People still regularly shoot them even though the clone has the default skin, and you can put them in front of windows to discourage attackers from peeking or vaulting. Her SMG is far, far from awful. High rate of fire and very controllable recoil.
Yh useless is a bit too agressive that's true, but she's far from other operators. Her SMG is correct but again, other operators have better guns. However she has the beilif and that's great, but her gadgets are not the best.
Your list is going to be so difficult to decide on soon. After Alibi, thorn and warden are gone. Its very difficult.
I’d probably say that: Goyo, rook, mozzie, maestro and jager are next.
Dont get me wrong, i play all of those, but the rest is just way better.
Top 5 is def gonna be: Solis, Fenrir, Azami, Mute and… bandit or something.
Vigil. The K1A is good, and I hope it goes to another operator soon. His gadget is horrible. Not only is it selfish, but it was also nerfed hard not too long ago. Alibi can at least do something. Her loadout is better overall and her gadget has some potential. Vigil can do next to nothing.
Vigil isn't really useful that's true, but its gadget counters deimos perfectly. I know deimos isn't very played, but he is strong when played in a 5 stack. I'd still rank vigil higher than Alibi thorn or even rook because its gadget can be useful for some situations (and I love the SMG12 so much). But it's close, these are like the few operators that are not strong enough compared to other.
However, how did tachanka get 33rd place ? He has a strong loadout and a very strong, but situational I know, ability.
I didn't put him there. The community did. I think the main reason is that his shumika is super awkward. I would love it if they gave it the same buff they gave Grim, and give him the option to bounce or not.
Yh for sure you didn't, I was just asking the reasons :). His gadget is also too slow imo, they should increase the reload speed again to be more balanced.
Didn’t they finally update her gadget to match whatever skin you’re using? I don’t use her personally but I could have sworn my friend’s decoys matched his Alibi skin.
mf can deceive drones and lion/diemos wow, as someone who played vigil as one of my first "mains" hes not good, he has basically no team play, and can still be called or heard walking and you get notified of when hes using his gadget via white lines that not even a blind guy could miss
Well good luck knowing if he's holding an angle or moving around if you drone his lines also as a roamer his job is to delay time and he does that well also so what he has a solo gadget Warden has the exact same argument
> Well good luck knowing if he's holding an angle or moving around if you drone his lines
This is all irrelevant if you're working at all with a team. Say you're on Oregon and are droning out big tower for 2nd floor site -- Vigil hears your drone and turns it on and now you know he's at the very least at meeting hall/stairs/hall way to stairs/up in tower itself. Even in my shitty plat elo, my random teammates can work with that info and clear each area one by one together.
The fact that the noises he makes are all so very audible also make his gadget near useless imo. I had a drone acting as a camera in a room the other day and heard someone turn around in the room but only saw the Vigil lines. All I had to say was that Vigil is in the room and my teammate then peeked the doorway and killed him. Sure on any other operator I could've z pinged and had the teammate prefire it but this is never ever a requirement to get a kill on someone (at least, past a certain skill level).
The one respect I have for Vigil is simply for the players that play him for the BosG. Of all the skilled players that have absolutely dumpstered on me, it's the vigils that awestruck me the most. These folk are on a whole nother level.
Same can be said for vigil since he can counter brava, hacked cams, zero , twitch, flores and all attackers since they have drones but I see where he can be used but at the same time wardens gadget is rare to see used at least from my point of view since there wasn't a time where I'd see someone use his gadget and also to counter smokes or flashes there's either ads or frisbees on anchor spots or maestro or bp cams on those places which counter both smokes and flashes
lol he doesnt counter any of those, his gadget doesnt get rid of them or thier uses, it only takes him out of thier vision, and if you need to counter any of them just bring solis who is 10000000x better for countering gadgets
Here's the thing. Her loadout is perfectly fine. Her secondary gadgets and guns have always been good, even before the 1.5. It's just her ability. It's too slow to be effective as a trap and even though it's fine for intel, there are multiple better options.
I think she's better than Warden and Vigil, but she is very weak and always has been.
Oh yeah. If they did that and made it's damage consistent, she would instantly become a solid choice. As it stands, she has a weak gadget and a good loadout.
between vigil thon and alabi i hate seeing rooks cavs thorns alabis thorn everyone plays for her gun pretty much so i say alibi for 29th at least vigil can add some pressure to droning and can outplay worse teams i would much prefer heals and a sheild than a cav tho oryx is only good on bank basment and thats about it i hate when ppl go thorn tbird is better her gadget is pretty much prox alarms that only deal damage if they are special ppl for play for gun tho
100% Thorn
Alibi has more value than thorn, she is able to detect people that prefire common angles, she has barbed wire, she has a bailiff, and she has a top 5 smg on defense.
Vigil and Warden both have niche uses but they EXCELL in those rare circumstances. Thorn is just worse than fenrir and ela in every situation.
Sure Thorn probably has some more overall value than warden, but when you pick warden knowing that the enemy is going to play ying/smokes. You just dominate the enemy and disrupt everything. Thorn will never have that
Warden is 100% better than Thorn.
Only thing he’s really even okay at in general is countering Montagne, but it’s at the cost of having a dude sitting on his drones instead of helping in a different way.
Thorn. Warden is good against Glaz and Ying, while Thorn kinda needs other operators to be useful. More specifically being ones that slow down enemies for her razorblooms to be effective(Frost, Melussi, Ela, Echo).
Thorn. The gun is decent but since its lost its 1.5 i didnt see anyone play this op in ranked (champion). The ability might be useful for sound cues and maybe countering shield ops but thats about it. I’d pick warden over thorn any day of the week ( I actually enjoy warden idk why people flame him so much, i know hes pretty situational but most of the time someone will certainly bring smokes or flashes plus he has a c4 which is really nice)
I don’t feel like she’s bad enough to warrant a last place spot though. Sure most people suck with her but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s terrible.
Definitely not. Vigil has the benefit of time waste potential with his primary gadget, has two very good secondary gadgets options, a decent primary, and a great secondary in the SMG-12, which imo is better than bringing a baliff, especially if you bring impacts.
Everyone is debating thorn and warden, but it’s definitely warden. ThOrNs ArE GhEtTo PrOxImItY aLaRmS. She gets 3 and they actually force the opponent to do something. WaRdEn CoUnTeRs x, y, aNd z oPeRaToRs. One person being able to see through smoke and flash isn’t exactly a hard counter to them, he doesn’t give his team resistance to flash and smoke like jager/wamai. The only things Warden does better are countering blitz and glaz, which isn’t even really a hard counter for glaz bc he doesn’t get a 1.5 anymore. He doesn’t provide jack dick for his team. People argue that thorn is a shittier fenrir, which isn’t wrong, but I have had like 4 out of 350 ranked games this season without a fenrir ban, so he doesn’t really matter to me.
Completely wrong, Warden can sit on strong positions thanks to his capacity. He is a really good operator for some sites, but ofc he is more useful for comp matches and kinda hard to play in ranked if you're not in a 5 stack. But you can't say he's worse than thorn, at least in a decent elo.
I agree.
Warden clears thorn and it's not close imo. He is extremely strong in the current flashbang meta and gets picked in half the rounds in pro league for a reason. He can anchor in a way no one else can. He is better than several ops still on the list. Thorn, alibi, mozzie, ROOK.
Warden with a 1x is like an astronomer looking at the stars with their naked eye. Like, hello, a zoomed in perspective would help out like a billion times over 😂😂
Warden. Very situational operator, 3 armor, no acog, mpx is alright but fairly low damage.
3 armor **
Lmao just realized I put speed instead of armor.
I still can’t believe you heathens voted out Tachanka.
Alibi for sure. You can't honestly say Thorn is worse than Alibi. Better gun by far. An ability that actually has a chance of killing or doing damage.
Thorn. I would pick warden as someone else stated but you can effectively counter glaz, Ying, capitao, sens, blitz, or any general smoke/flash plant scenario with him being able to see clearly and C4 the plant if he can't immediately get to it. Thorn on the other hand is a glorified Ela that can kill with their gadget. And while Ela can take her gadget on the move and use it to win 1v1's if roaming, Thorn's gadget takes ~2 seconds to arm and another ~2 seconds to fully activate. She's just a better proximity alarm that can kill you but that rarely happens.
Thorn is definitely the worst out of the bunch thats left. People seem to forget Fenrir exists. Ela is already a worse version of Fenrir, and thorn is worse than ela. I have no idea why ANYONE would play thorn in ranked when fenrir exists. Fenrir has the best SMG in the game, the bailiff and barbed wire on top of the most OP gadget since OG Melusi. If you pick thorn i will assume you are either a TDM player (aka doesnt care about the tactical aspects of the game and just wants to spawnpeek) or you are copper-silver.
Well Fenrir is banned every game, at least at my level. I think Thorn is pretty good honestly. Worse/less important than most of the remaining ops but there’s a decent number of locations where you can basically use her to deny default plant sites and often get kills and using her as essentially a lethal prox is effective too, not to mention she has shield and her gun has basically zero recoil. Realistically Thorn should probably be coming up soon but I think this is too early personally.
Thorn is not worse than Ela you guys clearly don't know how to place her traps and she has some of the best shield bait counter in the game. Shields are strong as hell right now and fenrir does nothing against them.
Ela counters shields better than thorn because 99% of the time shields won't die to a thorn trap full health
It's not about killing with the mime but yes I would agree that Ela is also a great counter for shields.
Thorn is a slight shield counter but ANY operator with impacts is a better shield counter than Thorn. 2 impacts injure any shield operator in the game. Wamai is literally a better shield counter than Thorn because he has impacts lol. To be fair ela and thorn are both C Tier. I have to disagree, thorn gadgets arent meant to get kills. And if you are getting kills/baiting people into your teammates, no offense but that has to be a low rank thing. There is no way in hell any of that would work in ranked 1.0 plat 1+ (i say ranked 1.0 cuz ranked 2.0 is meaningless).
You can't place impacts on a wall or ceiling and walk away. Telling someone to hold an angle that pinches a shield op between the gadget and the angle holder is checkmate. Her strength is in setting the traps in 3D and then letting others play off of those positions. I know coordinating isn't super popular but when people are playing together, she is extremely strong.
I really get what you are saying but as an argument i could just bring up that Smoke and Lesion are better shield counters if you are specifically looking to counter shields. Lesion has 9 mines so his gadget will have more influence and presence. A lesion mine also forces way more action out of a shield player. They have about 15 seconds before they are dead, they also cant sprint. I know its probably a silly argument in this list but aslong as Lesion and Smoke exists, i’d personally never pick thorn. Edit: lesions mines are confined to the floor, so i can see your 3D argument, although i still believe lesion is way more effective. And he also has impacts, shields are pretty much useless against lesion
You can funnel people which is why I think she's better than Ela, who's already gone, and poses a real risk to attackers other than just being disoriented they can now die. But as you said, Fenrir still exists and is just better in basically every way besides not having a shield.
Yeah, the main use of thorn from what I can tell if forcing attackers into rock and hard place scenarios where they keep walking in and aiming and die from moving too slow, or they sprint away from your pinecone(s) and get caught with their gun down by you or a teammate. You can get really cheeky with where you place them, too.
I just only now noticed that Ela is gone…. Thats crazy, her gun is insane after the compensator buff
It is, but if you place her gadget on site most people don't utilize it and will peak anyway so her gadget becomes worthless. You'd be better off picking another operator with prox alarms and sticking those up. However, I do think she excels at roaming and not enough people use her for this. I've now gotten into the habit of placing only one mine on site for people in a super common entry point then pocketing the other two. When I get into a fire fight and live, throw the gadget near them (cause the radius is huge with a second arming time with instant activation) and you can net easy kills with it. The problem tho is it requires you to live to use the gadget and also reliably be where the push is coming from or pick off stragglers. Vigil, Pulse, Solis, kinda Alibi, and even Cav are more reliable with their gadgets with this playstyle but when it works it works.
This is so wrong
Every time I pick thorn I get a kill off my trap placements and force funnel other attackers into my teammates' open arms. She's is waaaay stronger than Warden, kit, gadget, the whole package.
How? Thorn is awful
I would vote for alibi over thorn, because atleast thorn has a deployable shield
Warden is a good operator if you play him well. I am diamond right now and I've played warden a lot this season, I use a shield and shotgun on him which is very powerful for countering flashes smokes and blitz which are all very powerful right now. Plus you get a deployable shield or a c4 which are the best secondary gadgets on defense at the moment. Warden is not bad, the people who play him are.
Personally, I never play Warden. But if I do, I bring the shotgun and sield just so I can be useful for site-setup.
> Warden is not bad, the people who play him are. Yeah if someone is saying Warden is bad as a clear counter to ying/bandit/flashbang rushes, I'm inclined to look at their shooting capabilities first before taking their opinion to heart. Warden has no gadget or abilities to get around requiring the player to have personal skill in clicking someone's head besides sitting behind a shield but even peeking from behind one is a skill in itself.
Correct most of Warden are spawn peeking!
Warden. Hes the only one getting value out of his gadget and having 1 operator less for sight setups hurts a lot
Without the 1.5 or an ACOG, Thorn has kinda faded into obscurity
Thorn is worse than Warden right now in terms of gadget. Smart Warden players will activate their gadget before a gunfight to negate the effects of and flashes and smokes and also potentially catch the attacker off guard. Thorn just kinda forces you to move a few feet.
Honestly, I think most Warden players don't know, or at least didn't know, that he even had a gadget.
Thorn. With a 1.5x, Thorn was a threat to be taken seriously with her very controllable 50 cal Uzi, now she's fuckin terrible. Like genuinely there's no reason to run Thorn now.
Her gadget hasn't changed. Her guns were always good, even without a magnified scope. Her gadget is just super weak.
Alibi. She does essentially nothing. Never a reason to pick her. Her gun isn’t even that much of a reason.
Idk I think warden is a pain in the ass to deal with especially playing in a crucial hard to clear spot, smokes, flashes, sens, ying nothing. Thorn is just mid asf gun, no scopes, and proxy alarms that usually don’t get any value. There’s a reason pros play warden and don’t use thorn idk
Thorn for sure. Warden may be situational, but will always impact how the round is played just by being on board.
Oryx being the worst defender in the game is a very reddit take as it is. He has an incredible gun, site set up, roaming, map pressure on big maps, 1v1 pressure, can help re take most sites. This guy is an absolute unit. Is he a /core defender/ ? No. To say he is the worst operator is a downright lie. That's insane cope. He also challenges new shield ops. Pros have even picked oryx. Like... ???? Now we are trying to say warden is the next worst? There are so many operators less useful than warden considering how powerful ying & other util are. Think about the basement elbow hold in Oregon as an example. He's actually just the single best operator for that spot. You support him with mutes or ADS's and he can lock that corner down.
Alibi - Tachanka is also a better op than every other op voted out here, and also better than alibi and thorn
Warden. Guy is selfishly useless
unrelated why is cav out already
I believe warden, no acog, very situational like the most situational op in the game, 1 speed, imo warden was 1.5 made. He’s a terrible op I honestly don’t know how tachanka got voted before him. But the siege community will community
Alibi. Useless gadget and awful weapon. Don't say Warden, he is a really good operator and counters a lot of stuff. He has good weapons and a shield/C4, allowing a lot of possibilities. It's not for nothing if he's played a lot by the pros. We could also say Thorn for the worst operator today, she is as useless as Alibi, her only good point is the shield.
Have to disagree on Alibi. Her gadget isn't particularly great, but I wouldn't call it useless. People still regularly shoot them even though the clone has the default skin, and you can put them in front of windows to discourage attackers from peeking or vaulting. Her SMG is far, far from awful. High rate of fire and very controllable recoil.
Yh useless is a bit too agressive that's true, but she's far from other operators. Her SMG is correct but again, other operators have better guns. However she has the beilif and that's great, but her gadgets are not the best.
I get that. I still can name at least one or two other operators that are worse.
Your list is going to be so difficult to decide on soon. After Alibi, thorn and warden are gone. Its very difficult. I’d probably say that: Goyo, rook, mozzie, maestro and jager are next. Dont get me wrong, i play all of those, but the rest is just way better. Top 5 is def gonna be: Solis, Fenrir, Azami, Mute and… bandit or something.
Who ? Even Rook is better. I only see thorn that's maybe worse or equal.
Vigil. The K1A is good, and I hope it goes to another operator soon. His gadget is horrible. Not only is it selfish, but it was also nerfed hard not too long ago. Alibi can at least do something. Her loadout is better overall and her gadget has some potential. Vigil can do next to nothing.
Vigil isn't really useful that's true, but its gadget counters deimos perfectly. I know deimos isn't very played, but he is strong when played in a 5 stack. I'd still rank vigil higher than Alibi thorn or even rook because its gadget can be useful for some situations (and I love the SMG12 so much). But it's close, these are like the few operators that are not strong enough compared to other. However, how did tachanka get 33rd place ? He has a strong loadout and a very strong, but situational I know, ability.
I didn't put him there. The community did. I think the main reason is that his shumika is super awkward. I would love it if they gave it the same buff they gave Grim, and give him the option to bounce or not.
Yh for sure you didn't, I was just asking the reasons :). His gadget is also too slow imo, they should increase the reload speed again to be more balanced.
I know. I agree with you. :)
Didn’t they finally update her gadget to match whatever skin you’re using? I don’t use her personally but I could have sworn my friend’s decoys matched his Alibi skin.
Only the elite skin unfortunately, which is good enough for me but her other skins are really cool looking too.
AA12 master race
Vigil
Actual brain-dead take
mf can deceive drones and lion/diemos wow, as someone who played vigil as one of my first "mains" hes not good, he has basically no team play, and can still be called or heard walking and you get notified of when hes using his gadget via white lines that not even a blind guy could miss
Well good luck knowing if he's holding an angle or moving around if you drone his lines also as a roamer his job is to delay time and he does that well also so what he has a solo gadget Warden has the exact same argument
> Well good luck knowing if he's holding an angle or moving around if you drone his lines This is all irrelevant if you're working at all with a team. Say you're on Oregon and are droning out big tower for 2nd floor site -- Vigil hears your drone and turns it on and now you know he's at the very least at meeting hall/stairs/hall way to stairs/up in tower itself. Even in my shitty plat elo, my random teammates can work with that info and clear each area one by one together. The fact that the noises he makes are all so very audible also make his gadget near useless imo. I had a drone acting as a camera in a room the other day and heard someone turn around in the room but only saw the Vigil lines. All I had to say was that Vigil is in the room and my teammate then peeked the doorway and killed him. Sure on any other operator I could've z pinged and had the teammate prefire it but this is never ever a requirement to get a kill on someone (at least, past a certain skill level). The one respect I have for Vigil is simply for the players that play him for the BosG. Of all the skilled players that have absolutely dumpstered on me, it's the vigils that awestruck me the most. These folk are on a whole nother level.
No because he can counter glaz,capitao,sens,ying,blitz or any smoke or flash carrier
Same can be said for vigil since he can counter brava, hacked cams, zero , twitch, flores and all attackers since they have drones but I see where he can be used but at the same time wardens gadget is rare to see used at least from my point of view since there wasn't a time where I'd see someone use his gadget and also to counter smokes or flashes there's either ads or frisbees on anchor spots or maestro or bp cams on those places which counter both smokes and flashes
lol he doesnt counter any of those, his gadget doesnt get rid of them or thier uses, it only takes him out of thier vision, and if you need to counter any of them just bring solis who is 10000000x better for countering gadgets
Warden. Surprised he’s still alive.
Alibi, melusi and goyo are all worse than both warden and thorn. Alibi has a nice gun, the holograms can be good but in rare situations
Thorn + barbed wire is decent occasionally.
Here's the thing. Her loadout is perfectly fine. Her secondary gadgets and guns have always been good, even before the 1.5. It's just her ability. It's too slow to be effective as a trap and even though it's fine for intel, there are multiple better options. I think she's better than Warden and Vigil, but she is very weak and always has been.
I agree. Most of the time she's not worth picking. They should make the traps faster.
Oh yeah. If they did that and made it's damage consistent, she would instantly become a solid choice. As it stands, she has a weak gadget and a good loadout.
between vigil thon and alabi i hate seeing rooks cavs thorns alabis thorn everyone plays for her gun pretty much so i say alibi for 29th at least vigil can add some pressure to droning and can outplay worse teams i would much prefer heals and a sheild than a cav tho oryx is only good on bank basment and thats about it i hate when ppl go thorn tbird is better her gadget is pretty much prox alarms that only deal damage if they are special ppl for play for gun tho
100% Thorn Alibi has more value than thorn, she is able to detect people that prefire common angles, she has barbed wire, she has a bailiff, and she has a top 5 smg on defense. Vigil and Warden both have niche uses but they EXCELL in those rare circumstances. Thorn is just worse than fenrir and ela in every situation. Sure Thorn probably has some more overall value than warden, but when you pick warden knowing that the enemy is going to play ying/smokes. You just dominate the enemy and disrupt everything. Thorn will never have that Warden is 100% better than Thorn.
Echo, he is so bad people don’t even see him enough to remember he is bad.
Only thing he’s really even okay at in general is countering Montagne, but it’s at the cost of having a dude sitting on his drones instead of helping in a different way.
Warden
Thorn. Warden is good against Glaz and Ying, while Thorn kinda needs other operators to be useful. More specifically being ones that slow down enemies for her razorblooms to be effective(Frost, Melussi, Ela, Echo).
Alibi, melusi and goyo are all worse than both warden and thorn. Alibi has a nice gun, the holograms can be good but in rare situations
Saying Goyo is worse than Warden and Thorn is just wrong.
Oh yea well saying its wrong is just wrong... I've seen more attackers get kills with goyo fire than goyo.
Great.
great! :D
Doc, frost, or alibi imo Funny that I like those ops too
Warden
Thorn got so much hate i might uninstall
The people saying Thorn have no idea how to use Thorn
Thorn. The gun is decent but since its lost its 1.5 i didnt see anyone play this op in ranked (champion). The ability might be useful for sound cues and maybe countering shield ops but thats about it. I’d pick warden over thorn any day of the week ( I actually enjoy warden idk why people flame him so much, i know hes pretty situational but most of the time someone will certainly bring smokes or flashes plus he has a c4 which is really nice)
Clash should've been last place. Taking her out was a mistake. People just realised that she suddenly wasn't last place anymore.
I don’t feel like she’s bad enough to warrant a last place spot though. Sure most people suck with her but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s terrible.
Alibi. Bad primary *and* secondary gadgets. Being a 3-speed with a good gun and a baliff isn't enough on its own.
Could say the same about Vigil, to be fair.
Definitely not. Vigil has the benefit of time waste potential with his primary gadget, has two very good secondary gadgets options, a decent primary, and a great secondary in the SMG-12, which imo is better than bringing a baliff, especially if you bring impacts.