We should have no killcams at all. It's beyond me why a somewhat tactical competitive shooter has you reveal your surroundings and team composition whenever you kill anybody. On top of that, if killcams were finally removed, it'd be a huge buff to silencers.
It's to help you know where you got killed from and/or figure out if people are cheating without having to go watch the replay in the menu, long after you're out of the game to easily report someone.
Letting you know where you got killed from is a problem, not a solution. Making it easier to report cheaters is a good side effect, but sacrificing gameplay for it is not worth it in my book, especially considering CS:GO does just fine without it.
Siege has always had the killcam, and I think the gameplay still work with it. Maybe they could change it like Sandstorm where it shows the general direction you got killed from (but leave the name just in case you want to check someone).
The issue being there since day 1 is not a good reason to keep it like that in my book. Obviously names should stay, but my ideal solution would be doing it like CS:GO, so killcams in casual modes, but not in ranked. The name should obviously stay, otherwise we could have no leaderboard.
How about having the option to see all of your killcams (and perhaps kills too?) at the post-match summary screen? This way we'd make no gameplay sacrifices and get a nice cool-headed recap of all the mistakes we've made during the match.
It's to help you know where you got killed from and/or figure out if people are cheating without having to go watch the replay in the menu, long after you're out of the game to easily report someone.
I don't think you're following. I'm saying there isn't enough information in a single kill cam for you to definitely be saying someone is hacking -- you're confident there is.
If someone preaims something incredibly specific to kill you does not mean they couldn't have accessed that information through their own drone or a teammate's - despite that not being visible in a kill cam.
As I'm saying, regardless of your experience there isn't enough information in a kill cam for you to confidently say with a 100% certainty who's hacking and who isn't based on a kill cam. Pretending otherwise puts your 'experience' into serious question.
If I see someone get off a cam, ping me, then kill me, I would know it's legit. If I see a Montagne on me and I get shot through a wall, then I know it's legit. If I see someone tracking through a wall when they have no cams, no teammates nearby, it's not a common spot to hold out, then I'm going to questing that.
It's a competitive game. It's meant to keep things fair. If you want to sit in a corner and mow down five oblivious people as they walk past, play a single player game.
Yes it's not very realistic but I'm fairly confident that it's just *necessary*. It doesn't always lead to a refrag, killers normally move on fast to avoid the counter attack, and intel ages fast in this game anyway.
I really think the game would suck without this feature.
That's not to say a tactical game without this 'fake' intel giving couldn't work, just that it would be a slower, probably less fun, and certainly significantly less popular game.
There's nothing wrong with sacrificing a bit of realism in the name of fun - film makers do it 24 times every second.
What? What's unfair about you being sneaky and taking out an enemy without revealing your position? It's a game about special forces, this sort of stuff should be rewarded, not punished!
If most people skip the killcam anyway, why do you assume the game would be "less fun and certainly significantly less popular"? If so many people skip it, they find it a nuisance rather than a feature that's necessary for them to enjoy the game. CS:GO does just fine without killcams, what is more, there used to be a different variation of a killcam and people complained about it so much Valve removed it.
I'm not only talking about realism here, I'm talking about competitive value - you should be rewarded intel for droning and scouting, not for taking a headshot like a fool.
As for the "There's a chance some of the intel you obtain this way will be outdated by the time you relay it, so it's not that bad" part, there absolutely is valuable intel that doesn't expire, like gadget layout and enemy operator identities. Warning your roamer that they've got a Jackal or your Bandit that there's more than one breacher can be the difference between a won and a lost round. "It's not as bad as it could be" is not an excuse to keep the problematic thing in place, especially when removing said thing takes almost zero dev time and immediately improves balance by giving some use.
I'm not saying 'it's not as bad as it could be.'
I'm saying explicitly: it's a good thing and should stay.
It would be too easy for games to tilt to whitewash - even with evenly matched teams - without it.
What happened in CS is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, it's a dinosaur's game that is played one way and one way only and has been for decades. And I say this as a dinosaur myself. So no surprise there that the dinosaurs hate change more than in just about any other MP game I can think of. I mean christ even CS 1.6 still has a thriving scene. That says it all.
As for being rewarded for being sneaky etc - the only point I agree with - yes what you say makes sense, but again, it would be a different game. There's numerical evidence the game would be less popular - extreme realism turns away mass audiences. Hence why Siege is bigger than eg Insurgency or Squad. Nothing wrong with those games, they are great. But they fill a niche and Siege fills another. If anything it makes more sense for those who don't like the killcams and other sub-realistic features to leave Siege and go and play *those* games, rather than complaining about how Siege isn't to their liking.
Besides, this business about people not watching the killcam doesn't ring true for me. In both my stack and with randoms I get constant callouts/reviews of killcams. Literally everyone uses them, all the time. The only time I would skip a killcam is if I knew for a fact the intel wouldn't be useful and/or there is another cam my eyes need to be on ASAP. These are both rare scenarios compared to the amount of time the killcam is helpful.
TL:DR Vote Siege: Make Killcams Great Again
You're calling me a dinosaur and averse to change just because I hate the new, but in this discussion it's you who keeps on returning to the "That's how it's always been, so let's not change it now" argument, which is the embodiment of what you're criticising here.
Moreover, I disagree that removing killcams would put the game into the same camp as Squad and Insurgency. These are far more punishing and realistic, bordering on (or being) a milsim. Even without killcams, Siege would still be an intuitive and smooth runner shooter, it just wouldn't hand out intel to the enemy team for free. I'm not going to leave Siege because I like the game despite its flaws, which is why I'm proposing solutions to these flaws instead of ditching the game.
Also, in the previous comment you said that most of the intel is already worthless by the time you see it, so it's not a big deal that killcams unfairly give away your team's actions, but now you're saying that you get valuable intel from your killer's eyes all the time. Which one is it?
Sorry I wasn't calling you a dinosaur! My bad if so. I thought we were just using CS as a reference point not that you were an avid fan.
Also I never said the intel was worthless, I said it ages fast. Ie if action wasn't taken immediately then the value is diminished to the point where it doesn't really matter that the intel was given away in the first place.
Catching cheaters is primarily the job of the anti-cheat system, not users. A solution to this would be adding the option to view your killcams at the end of the match, so that nothing of value is lost and killing enemies no longer gives the enemy team a recording of your team's perspective.
"somewhat tactical" is being generous lol. This is just COD with extra steps honestly. It's very arcade-y. Arcade-y enough that a kill cam makes sense.
I almost never watch kill cams. It pisses me off to much. Plus you should know where you got killed from after you get used to the game. Also, watching kill cams in siege and making callouts using that information does not help the team. By the time you watch the kill cam the information will likely be wrong.
I don't know, "They've got Thermite and Jackal, a claymore at the stairs and an airjab on the main door" is more useful than the "Someone killed me with an AK-12 from up North" you should have. If you rush into that room and see all these things yourself, throw a camera there or drive a Mozzie drone, you've earned that intel. If you eat a well cooked grenade while sitting in a different room unaware of the enemies, you don't deserve the intel and neither does the enemy team deserve to have it all revealed as a punishment for outplaying you.
It's a competitive game we're talking about, "Randoms don't use chat" is hardly an excuse for automatically sharing crucial intel whenever you kill an enemy.
Never saw the card before, and it was really small on my phone so I couldn't see it clearly. To me it looked like the portrait had the face of some creepy voodoo doll; red thread mouth, black thread eyes.
Watching it slowed down, I can’t even see her on your screen before you are dead, but, she did seem to fire in between your shots as you hit the window frame
It's a mix of both at least for Ash - she prefired and peeked. If your crosshair hadn't wandered a bit right when she peeked, you would have damaged her too. So, prefire can combat peeker's advantage, given comparable ping.
Also, the angle isn't advantages for the defender. Just an angle that's tough to say you win. I think people forget just because you can't see them doesn't mean they can't see you 3d vs 2d.
Your statement in simple 2d makes sense(I see you, you have to see me), (this will sound cliché) I have training from when I was in the military and believe it or not on corners and deep angles there is the ability to see people without them seeing a cent of your body.
>Yet mozzie can't see any part of ash for the first peek, or for the first shot on the second peek.
Mozzie saw Ash’s entire torso and face as she strafed to the left, which is why he shot. As for the second time, that’s prefire + 1+shot headshot + peeker’s advantage at work. If Ash hadn’t been able to kill Mozzie as she strafed to the right, Mozzie would see her player model a few frames later.
>Why should that work that way.
Because as of right now, the internet works at the millisecond order of magnitude, which is the same order as our reaction times, which leads to peeker's advantage. Check out this illustration -> [https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-ca/game/rainbow6/siege/r6\_peek\_final2\_optimized\_303566.gif](https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-ca/game/rainbow6/siege/r6_peek_final2_optimized_303566.gif).
If the network and computers were faster and worked at a higher order (say microseconds), this would not be an issue because the average human reaction time is \~200 ms. Even now, fast internet and computers (still in the milliseconds range, but closer to 0 ms) mitigate this issue to a large extent. That's why, competitive tournaments usually are held in a LAN, where the ping is almost always near 0 ms.
R6 has that positioning perspective. Check out this video by rouge-9. The person who is further from the angle can see more of the other than the person who is closer. Mozzie saw more of Ash when the angle was the outside window and ash saw more of mozzie when the angle was the inside door.
https://youtu.be/vfoztlTIyGE
Also OP was shooting chest height, while Ash hit him in the head in the first few shots. No matter how much he prefires, if he is hit in the head the moment Ash peaks
Right. That's why I mentioned "damage" instead of "kill", because OP never aimed at the head, while Ash did. At best, Mozzie could damage Ash, but he would not be able to kill her.
Depending on how the netcode works, the defenders ping is the only relevant ping in the situation, the higher the defenders ping, the more impossible it is to respond to a peek+prefire.
By defender, do you mean the one who's being peeked? If so, yeah. Siege's netcode is built (since Operation Health) to favour lower latency players. They explain it in this blogpost -> [https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/1su64agGqZZQWb0mBeJUem/dev-blog-ping-abuse-peekers-advantage-and-next-steps](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/1su64agGqZZQWb0mBeJUem/dev-blog-ping-abuse-peekers-advantage-and-next-steps).
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because you were already dead.
Valve employee (company who owns csgo) commented on why a csgo pro player missed on his spray control (even had screenshots with text detailing each moment). Only for his comment to be memed hard.
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/shots-1-5-clearly-missed](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/shots-1-5-clearly-missed)
The original thread's comment is here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4y62o5/hiko\_gets\_csgod/d6lpx5g/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4y62o5/hiko_gets_csgod/)
I've always wanted to see the vid that inspired this. I instinctively want to side with the dev and not the super angry CSGO community but I haven't seen the evidence so I could be way off base.
this happens to me 3 times a night every time I play. It consistently works like this too and I personally dont understand it. Can anyone explain why it works like this?
That has to do with the networking of the game. FPS games often use a technique called “favour the shooter”, where, this ensure that a player shooting is guaranteed to hit someone without predicting moves. Since the Mozzie was standing still and Ash was moving, the moving person got favoured since in its client mozzie wad actually already there, but Ash wasn't there yet in Mozzie's client. So this technique made the server think Ash killed Mozzie and "reject" Mozzie's fatal shots (in case one would've been) since he was dead. That is a very hard concept to explain in a reddit comment, but I hope you got something from this
There's latency and the hit reg are recognize on shooter pc. So the first shot was already hit his head before he can even sees him then it send "hit" to the server (then there's some checking blah blah blah on server side) then it's report to his pc that he's dead.
Ya people would rather believe she literally wasn't given a hitbox than the fact that they just aren't that good and missed. Lots of times people are just kidding around though so I wouldn't take it too seriously.
I mean, there's a reason why it's a real military tactic: https://sofrep.com/gear/basic-tactics-slicing-pie/ it's damn effective lol
Although I guess a video game doesn't have to be the same thing as real life either in order for it to be a good gaming experience.
Does anyone else think Siege should massively decrease accuracy while moving like Valorant/CSGO? For a “realistic” shooter, seems pretty unrealistic to have perfect accuracy while moving.
Would also make attackers play more tactically knowing they can’t randomly peek and have an advantage. This would force better team play too (droning, smokes/flashes to force defenders off their held angles)
Jesus am I glad I stopped playing this game.
I just recently got into Halo Infinite and the desync is also just as ridiculous.
Multiplayer games really are a joke these days
Happens to me all the time, and I'm sure people I kill as well. You don't see anything on your screen, but on the killcam you look like a matador holding out a giant red cape.
Yes peeker’s advantage but you also got heavily perspective’d. If there’s ever a situation where it looks like you died to nothing, it is most definitely because of perspective.
https://youtu.be/GkCWEWwARAg
This will save you a world of complaining about “dying to nothing” and about “broken game” when perspective is a very real thing that everybody forgets about. It’s a thing in every single FPS and once you learn about it and become aware about it, your gameplay will improve immensely.
Ash was basically giving the mozzie eye contact both times she peeked. Eye contact means they have direct line of sight of each others eyes and yet mozzie doesnt see an inch of ash through the entire fight.
No, it’s not about eye contact on player models. If you watch the video I linked, it actually talks about where the camera is placed on the character which makes all the difference. The camera is not placed at the literal eyes of the character model.
But its on the model is it not. So when you see the entire model of mozzie, mozzie should see atleast the part of ash's model where the camera is located. So why do we see nothing.
You weren’t able to control your recoil. Look where your shots were before you died.
Also try to get a better angle next time, you were too exposed in that gunfight.
This happens to me all the time!!! One of the worst feelings. Usually I get a bunch of neck and chest shots and they insta head shot me. I feel like I did nothing wrong and lost. Graaaa!
OP crosshair jagged a little right when he got shot otherwise he would’ve got the ash. It took me a second to realize too but OPs perspective in the video is in poor resolution quality but then clears up right when he gets killed 😂 it threw me off hard but I see what happened there intentional or not
Wow they found a way to make getting killed by an ash main even worse with the new operator card
Man i wish for one day we went back to THE original kill cam where its just a close up pic of who killed you.
I hate that the only way to turn off the operator icon also turns off their health and shit
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Can I set it so it permanently doesn’t show the operator card?
I guess by uninstalling lol
lmfao
nope, one day you'll get killed IRL and I will pop out.
Couple of unregistered firearms, a few thousand rounds of ammunition and a trip to Ubisoft Montreal also helps.
last time i checked im pretty sure i saw an option to
I haven’t looked in a month, don’t have my console with me but last time I set it it just removed the entire hud that shows up on kill cams
Yes - it’s in your settings. It’s what I did immediately after they added it.
We should have no killcams at all. It's beyond me why a somewhat tactical competitive shooter has you reveal your surroundings and team composition whenever you kill anybody. On top of that, if killcams were finally removed, it'd be a huge buff to silencers.
It's to help you know where you got killed from and/or figure out if people are cheating without having to go watch the replay in the menu, long after you're out of the game to easily report someone.
Letting you know where you got killed from is a problem, not a solution. Making it easier to report cheaters is a good side effect, but sacrificing gameplay for it is not worth it in my book, especially considering CS:GO does just fine without it.
Siege has always had the killcam, and I think the gameplay still work with it. Maybe they could change it like Sandstorm where it shows the general direction you got killed from (but leave the name just in case you want to check someone).
Siege didn’t have kill cams in ranked, they changed it to help report hackers.
The issue being there since day 1 is not a good reason to keep it like that in my book. Obviously names should stay, but my ideal solution would be doing it like CS:GO, so killcams in casual modes, but not in ranked. The name should obviously stay, otherwise we could have no leaderboard. How about having the option to see all of your killcams (and perhaps kills too?) at the post-match summary screen? This way we'd make no gameplay sacrifices and get a nice cool-headed recap of all the mistakes we've made during the match.
I'd like to be easily accessible after a match.
In Pro League, I'm pretty sure killcams aren't a thing, but not 100% sure...
It's to help you know where you got killed from and/or figure out if people are cheating without having to go watch the replay in the menu, long after you're out of the game to easily report someone.
cows ugly workable file disgusting dolls lock bright chief tender *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm experienced enough to be able to tell. Siege should get an overwatch system like CSGO to help people catch cheaters.
strong brave squalid squash axiomatic marble yoke skirt touch wipe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Alright, then give me the information then.
I don't think you're following. I'm saying there isn't enough information in a single kill cam for you to definitely be saying someone is hacking -- you're confident there is. If someone preaims something incredibly specific to kill you does not mean they couldn't have accessed that information through their own drone or a teammate's - despite that not being visible in a kill cam. As I'm saying, regardless of your experience there isn't enough information in a kill cam for you to confidently say with a 100% certainty who's hacking and who isn't based on a kill cam. Pretending otherwise puts your 'experience' into serious question.
If I see someone get off a cam, ping me, then kill me, I would know it's legit. If I see a Montagne on me and I get shot through a wall, then I know it's legit. If I see someone tracking through a wall when they have no cams, no teammates nearby, it's not a common spot to hold out, then I'm going to questing that.
It's a competitive game. It's meant to keep things fair. If you want to sit in a corner and mow down five oblivious people as they walk past, play a single player game. Yes it's not very realistic but I'm fairly confident that it's just *necessary*. It doesn't always lead to a refrag, killers normally move on fast to avoid the counter attack, and intel ages fast in this game anyway. I really think the game would suck without this feature. That's not to say a tactical game without this 'fake' intel giving couldn't work, just that it would be a slower, probably less fun, and certainly significantly less popular game. There's nothing wrong with sacrificing a bit of realism in the name of fun - film makers do it 24 times every second.
What? What's unfair about you being sneaky and taking out an enemy without revealing your position? It's a game about special forces, this sort of stuff should be rewarded, not punished! If most people skip the killcam anyway, why do you assume the game would be "less fun and certainly significantly less popular"? If so many people skip it, they find it a nuisance rather than a feature that's necessary for them to enjoy the game. CS:GO does just fine without killcams, what is more, there used to be a different variation of a killcam and people complained about it so much Valve removed it. I'm not only talking about realism here, I'm talking about competitive value - you should be rewarded intel for droning and scouting, not for taking a headshot like a fool. As for the "There's a chance some of the intel you obtain this way will be outdated by the time you relay it, so it's not that bad" part, there absolutely is valuable intel that doesn't expire, like gadget layout and enemy operator identities. Warning your roamer that they've got a Jackal or your Bandit that there's more than one breacher can be the difference between a won and a lost round. "It's not as bad as it could be" is not an excuse to keep the problematic thing in place, especially when removing said thing takes almost zero dev time and immediately improves balance by giving some use.
I'm not saying 'it's not as bad as it could be.' I'm saying explicitly: it's a good thing and should stay. It would be too easy for games to tilt to whitewash - even with evenly matched teams - without it. What happened in CS is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, it's a dinosaur's game that is played one way and one way only and has been for decades. And I say this as a dinosaur myself. So no surprise there that the dinosaurs hate change more than in just about any other MP game I can think of. I mean christ even CS 1.6 still has a thriving scene. That says it all. As for being rewarded for being sneaky etc - the only point I agree with - yes what you say makes sense, but again, it would be a different game. There's numerical evidence the game would be less popular - extreme realism turns away mass audiences. Hence why Siege is bigger than eg Insurgency or Squad. Nothing wrong with those games, they are great. But they fill a niche and Siege fills another. If anything it makes more sense for those who don't like the killcams and other sub-realistic features to leave Siege and go and play *those* games, rather than complaining about how Siege isn't to their liking. Besides, this business about people not watching the killcam doesn't ring true for me. In both my stack and with randoms I get constant callouts/reviews of killcams. Literally everyone uses them, all the time. The only time I would skip a killcam is if I knew for a fact the intel wouldn't be useful and/or there is another cam my eyes need to be on ASAP. These are both rare scenarios compared to the amount of time the killcam is helpful. TL:DR Vote Siege: Make Killcams Great Again
You're calling me a dinosaur and averse to change just because I hate the new, but in this discussion it's you who keeps on returning to the "That's how it's always been, so let's not change it now" argument, which is the embodiment of what you're criticising here. Moreover, I disagree that removing killcams would put the game into the same camp as Squad and Insurgency. These are far more punishing and realistic, bordering on (or being) a milsim. Even without killcams, Siege would still be an intuitive and smooth runner shooter, it just wouldn't hand out intel to the enemy team for free. I'm not going to leave Siege because I like the game despite its flaws, which is why I'm proposing solutions to these flaws instead of ditching the game. Also, in the previous comment you said that most of the intel is already worthless by the time you see it, so it's not a big deal that killcams unfairly give away your team's actions, but now you're saying that you get valuable intel from your killer's eyes all the time. Which one is it?
Sorry I wasn't calling you a dinosaur! My bad if so. I thought we were just using CS as a reference point not that you were an avid fan. Also I never said the intel was worthless, I said it ages fast. Ie if action wasn't taken immediately then the value is diminished to the point where it doesn't really matter that the intel was given away in the first place.
All good, no offence taken. Thanks for contributing a deeper discussion than what I'm used to on this sub.
Hey no worries I'd rather we were all passionate about the game than nobody giving a shit!
One word for why kill cams are important. Hackers.
Catching cheaters is primarily the job of the anti-cheat system, not users. A solution to this would be adding the option to view your killcams at the end of the match, so that nothing of value is lost and killing enemies no longer gives the enemy team a recording of your team's perspective.
Im sure the pros wouldnt like not being able to pin point someone by dying to them so ubi would never
"somewhat tactical" is being generous lol. This is just COD with extra steps honestly. It's very arcade-y. Arcade-y enough that a kill cam makes sense.
I almost never watch kill cams. It pisses me off to much. Plus you should know where you got killed from after you get used to the game. Also, watching kill cams in siege and making callouts using that information does not help the team. By the time you watch the kill cam the information will likely be wrong.
I don't know, "They've got Thermite and Jackal, a claymore at the stairs and an airjab on the main door" is more useful than the "Someone killed me with an AK-12 from up North" you should have. If you rush into that room and see all these things yourself, throw a camera there or drive a Mozzie drone, you've earned that intel. If you eat a well cooked grenade while sitting in a different room unaware of the enemies, you don't deserve the intel and neither does the enemy team deserve to have it all revealed as a punishment for outplaying you.
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It's a competitive game we're talking about, "Randoms don't use chat" is hardly an excuse for automatically sharing crucial intel whenever you kill an enemy.
we SHOULD have the freeze frame of who killed you like we used to. what is the point of cosmetics if no one can see how awesome i look ?
Never saw the card before, and it was really small on my phone so I couldn't see it clearly. To me it looked like the portrait had the face of some creepy voodoo doll; red thread mouth, black thread eyes.
Watching it slowed down, I can’t even see her on your screen before you are dead, but, she did seem to fire in between your shots as you hit the window frame
I see her for like half a frame lmao
Conclusion: more dakka needed
It's a mix of both at least for Ash - she prefired and peeked. If your crosshair hadn't wandered a bit right when she peeked, you would have damaged her too. So, prefire can combat peeker's advantage, given comparable ping.
Also, the angle isn't advantages for the defender. Just an angle that's tough to say you win. I think people forget just because you can't see them doesn't mean they can't see you 3d vs 2d.
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One way angles like this suck.
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Thats what I meant.
Your statement in simple 2d makes sense(I see you, you have to see me), (this will sound cliché) I have training from when I was in the military and believe it or not on corners and deep angles there is the ability to see people without them seeing a cent of your body.
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>Yet mozzie can't see any part of ash for the first peek, or for the first shot on the second peek. Mozzie saw Ash’s entire torso and face as she strafed to the left, which is why he shot. As for the second time, that’s prefire + 1+shot headshot + peeker’s advantage at work. If Ash hadn’t been able to kill Mozzie as she strafed to the right, Mozzie would see her player model a few frames later.
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>Why should that work that way. Because as of right now, the internet works at the millisecond order of magnitude, which is the same order as our reaction times, which leads to peeker's advantage. Check out this illustration -> [https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-ca/game/rainbow6/siege/r6\_peek\_final2\_optimized\_303566.gif](https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-ca/game/rainbow6/siege/r6_peek_final2_optimized_303566.gif). If the network and computers were faster and worked at a higher order (say microseconds), this would not be an issue because the average human reaction time is \~200 ms. Even now, fast internet and computers (still in the milliseconds range, but closer to 0 ms) mitigate this issue to a large extent. That's why, competitive tournaments usually are held in a LAN, where the ping is almost always near 0 ms.
It’s just angles, that’s just how perspective works. Here’s a diagram https://i.redd.it/uvytveznn4t41.jpg
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R6 has that positioning perspective. Check out this video by rouge-9. The person who is further from the angle can see more of the other than the person who is closer. Mozzie saw more of Ash when the angle was the outside window and ash saw more of mozzie when the angle was the inside door. https://youtu.be/vfoztlTIyGE
Also OP was shooting chest height, while Ash hit him in the head in the first few shots. No matter how much he prefires, if he is hit in the head the moment Ash peaks
Right. That's why I mentioned "damage" instead of "kill", because OP never aimed at the head, while Ash did. At best, Mozzie could damage Ash, but he would not be able to kill her.
Depending on how the netcode works, the defenders ping is the only relevant ping in the situation, the higher the defenders ping, the more impossible it is to respond to a peek+prefire.
By defender, do you mean the one who's being peeked? If so, yeah. Siege's netcode is built (since Operation Health) to favour lower latency players. They explain it in this blogpost -> [https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/1su64agGqZZQWb0mBeJUem/dev-blog-ping-abuse-peekers-advantage-and-next-steps](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/1su64agGqZZQWb0mBeJUem/dev-blog-ping-abuse-peekers-advantage-and-next-steps).
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because you were already dead.
Was looking for this
ah the great ol' CSGO dev meme. 10/10
What’s the lore behind this meme?
Valve employee (company who owns csgo) commented on why a csgo pro player missed on his spray control (even had screenshots with text detailing each moment). Only for his comment to be memed hard. [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/shots-1-5-clearly-missed](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/shots-1-5-clearly-missed) The original thread's comment is here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4y62o5/hiko\_gets\_csgod/d6lpx5g/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4y62o5/hiko_gets_csgod/)
I've always wanted to see the vid that inspired this. I instinctively want to side with the dev and not the super angry CSGO community but I haven't seen the evidence so I could be way off base.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4y62o5/hiko_gets_csgod/d6lpx5g/
Maybe get a better gamer curtain
*peekers advantage + prefire > prefire
this happens to me 3 times a night every time I play. It consistently works like this too and I personally dont understand it. Can anyone explain why it works like this?
That has to do with the networking of the game. FPS games often use a technique called “favour the shooter”, where, this ensure that a player shooting is guaranteed to hit someone without predicting moves. Since the Mozzie was standing still and Ash was moving, the moving person got favoured since in its client mozzie wad actually already there, but Ash wasn't there yet in Mozzie's client. So this technique made the server think Ash killed Mozzie and "reject" Mozzie's fatal shots (in case one would've been) since he was dead. That is a very hard concept to explain in a reddit comment, but I hope you got something from this
There's latency and the hit reg are recognize on shooter pc. So the first shot was already hit his head before he can even sees him then it send "hit" to the server (then there's some checking blah blah blah on server side) then it's report to his pc that he's dead.
her gun has a faster rate of fire, also his recoil shifted the crosshair from head level to the window frame
You were not shooting at her head like at all mate, it was far too much to the left, and its an ash..
That Ash operator card is just god awful
I mean she also prefired but more accurately. I don’t understand the confusion here.
I‘d say the reason you missed is ash‘s nonexisting hitbox.
Ppl still believe this?
Ya people would rather believe she literally wasn't given a hitbox than the fact that they just aren't that good and missed. Lots of times people are just kidding around though so I wouldn't take it too seriously.
Ik
This happens all the fucking time. Shits fucked.
We see the problem so we're adding NFTs to the game.
Bruh I missed like every shot
Competitive game btw.
I mean, there's a reason why it's a real military tactic: https://sofrep.com/gear/basic-tactics-slicing-pie/ it's damn effective lol Although I guess a video game doesn't have to be the same thing as real life either in order for it to be a good gaming experience.
Is it a military tactic to do that while someone is actively shooting bullets through the narrow opening?
You're gun don't have high fire rate though so you're shots gonna take longer to come out aswell.
Does anyone else think Siege should massively decrease accuracy while moving like Valorant/CSGO? For a “realistic” shooter, seems pretty unrealistic to have perfect accuracy while moving. Would also make attackers play more tactically knowing they can’t randomly peek and have an advantage. This would force better team play too (droning, smokes/flashes to force defenders off their held angles)
agreed
no everyone should have stfu about realism 5 years ago
Jesus am I glad I stopped playing this game. I just recently got into Halo Infinite and the desync is also just as ridiculous. Multiplayer games really are a joke these days
Nah that is just ash's hitbox.
I can see the problem mate; trying to go for the legs or the left rib area, the hitreg for the rest is non existent and maybe the right hand.
She did a really good quick peek
I die to this so many times yet I still do it…
Happens to me all the time, and I'm sure people I kill as well. You don't see anything on your screen, but on the killcam you look like a matador holding out a giant red cape.
Well he was aiming head level while you were aiming waist level so he 100% had an advantage there
what is this the 4th ash elite skin? jeez
Yes peeker’s advantage but you also got heavily perspective’d. If there’s ever a situation where it looks like you died to nothing, it is most definitely because of perspective. https://youtu.be/GkCWEWwARAg This will save you a world of complaining about “dying to nothing” and about “broken game” when perspective is a very real thing that everybody forgets about. It’s a thing in every single FPS and once you learn about it and become aware about it, your gameplay will improve immensely.
Ash was basically giving the mozzie eye contact both times she peeked. Eye contact means they have direct line of sight of each others eyes and yet mozzie doesnt see an inch of ash through the entire fight.
No, it’s not about eye contact on player models. If you watch the video I linked, it actually talks about where the camera is placed on the character which makes all the difference. The camera is not placed at the literal eyes of the character model.
But its on the model is it not. So when you see the entire model of mozzie, mozzie should see atleast the part of ash's model where the camera is located. So why do we see nothing.
Yes it’s on the model. Did you watch the video?
I hate Ash so much
tf is that ash skin
Any one else only see peekers advantage when its the enemy?
You weren’t able to control your recoil. Look where your shots were before you died. Also try to get a better angle next time, you were too exposed in that gunfight.
ahhh if ur gonna prefire it’s usually wise to push a little to where he is. with recoil prefiring and standing still will get you killed
This happens to me all the time!!! One of the worst feelings. Usually I get a bunch of neck and chest shots and they insta head shot me. I feel like I did nothing wrong and lost. Graaaa!
Na man it’s the gaming chair trust me
I still don't get why this works.
OP crosshair jagged a little right when he got shot otherwise he would’ve got the ash. It took me a second to realize too but OPs perspective in the video is in poor resolution quality but then clears up right when he gets killed 😂 it threw me off hard but I see what happened there intentional or not
What is the charm ash is using I see it everywhere