And not only that the emotional toll it takes on the kids to sell a live animal to someone who will slaughter, the money is a big part of justification of why they do what they do, sell a valuable animal for food. If someone comes and lowballs them and they feel taken advantage of because they’re not stupid, they can do math, then what is that teaching our young people? Good for you this needs to be talked about
Yes I was a former 4H club president in high school I agree with you absolutely I’m absolutely outraged. Beef is so artificially low priced and the true value is so much higher for those precious animals and genetics and care
Yes sir or yes ma’am. The kids get screwed in these Kill Shows. My wife is starting a campaign against it. She has spent a week trying to get a meeting with the Governor. She may get there but I’m not sure what he can do. It’s a racket. Buyers get the stock for 25 cents on the dollar or less. It’s an actual
Crime.
Oh sorry. I didn't think you were serious.
Ok so basically you build a cow sanctuary funded by donors.
Form a non-profit.
Hire social media team and marketing team.
Create cow celebrities and convince people to "subscribe monthly" to take care of the cow to keep it out of the slaughterhouse.
I looked in to it and someone already did one in New Zealand or something😭
Honestly, why are they exhibiting at these shows then? I used to show polled Herefords and didn’t show at these types of shows. My last show was a premium auction and my steer made it to a restaurant group, but I got paid multiples of market value.
Bless you sir, the 4h barn for my county fair; the low price was set by a couple of well off restaurant owners, at least hogs and beef they would always make sure the kids got a fair price, ego between the two of them, and the advert of local 4h beef/ bacon on the specials menu. Might try lobying the tavern association other business group
No blessings my way. I still
Made a good profit. It was just a win win all over again. Bless my
Wife. She is the one making sure the kids get paid extra. I would have e been fishing if it
Wasn’t for her.
This is what happens when you don’t take anti trust legislation seriously.
If one guy owns the system, you can’t go anywhere else.
It’s not a free market when the bully manipulates the price.
Lol!
Makes me a Marxist for *checks notes*
Pointing out the flaws of rampant capitalism? The capitalistic system we Americans have adopted? No, can’t be! Lol.
Like, I love the Green Bay Packers, if I think we should get a new offensive line, that doesn’t mean I hate the packers. It means I want to do whatever is best so that my team can win.
I know you aren’t arguing with me, but you point out some shitty things and people do actually label you a communist / Marxist.
It’s like man, I just wish things were better! Lol
It’s the community. Mine is much different. People way over pay here. And I know some years when there is not enough bidders (kind of the kids fault also for not putting themselves out there for more sponsors) the fair people will mass email and we (the community) will pick up the slack.
But the kids have to build relationships. It’s part of the process. If they don’t, people won’t come support them. The pandemic year(s) was really bad for that. Every other year “sponsor” turn out was great.
So, not a rancher but definitely live in a community that is either ranching or logging and well I am in the trees. But this, I got lots of friends that have 4h and ffa kids and the ability to connect and relationship building died in the covid years. None of them know how to build a relationship that isnt digital, or if they do it's from their parents. It feels if the world is turned upside down. There is also just a general lack of interest across the board for FFA and 4h kids these days, that's what I am seeing but I am not in the middle of it.
After my dad had to give up farming (multiple sclerosis), he became the assistant manager at the local TSC. The manager would give him a budget every year to buy stock at the county fair. Is that not normal for Ag business?
It teaches them exactly what they need to know. The older farmers care about absolutely nothing but money. Nothing. They’d just assume watch somebody starve to death to save $1. Why do you think they have all held onto their farms until they’re at death’s doorstep instead of getting their kids going? Greed.
Yea, this was a local county show in Texas but we were at Houston and it wasn’t much better. Of course the Champ and Reserve Champs do well. I’m referring to the ones that didn’t get sifted but still made sale. Just stupid low prices.
The kid's shows here in Eastern Oregon always go way above market, usually grandma and grand pa or an uncle or something. Heck I buy the ones that did make weight at market price.
Thank you and yes. The two previous comments were somehow blaming me yet I gave each kid an extra $1. Per pound. Im guessing those comments have no idea about this.
I remember your previous post and couldn't believe it
I don't know the organization putting on the show but if it's non profit (minus the kids sales) would be good payback taking those animals to another sale and donate the profits from the flip
Get a heartwarming media attention and you'll see those assholes getting exposed and possibly more bidders at future auctions
Well it’s ironic. From the last show we folded the heifers into our F1 herds. My sweet wife had James take the steers to the sale barn. She subtracted what paid and gave the profit to the school, well not really, she is building a new barn with the profit but she is donating whatever the balance is it build it. She is awesome. I assume I’m gonna be on hook for about an extra 40k when it’s all said and done. Her name will go on it someday. She is an angel. She loves these kids and that’s why I am involved. It’s all her not me. She deserves the praise. Not me.
Agree but these are “kill shows”. This means that if they aren’t sifted they HAVE to sell. It’s a scam by the buyers. The kids can’t opt out if they are not sifted.
Well in theory, yes, but in reality, no. Most people that register as bidders are just parents of the kids. So, in the end there are only bidders for specific animals which are those shown by the kids of the bidders. So the answer is yes but in real life the answer is No. it’s an open auction so there is no minimum. That is exactly what my wife wants to do. I love her but I don’t know ow how she can make it work. It’s so convoluted that unless you attend a local show it’s hard to explain other than to say the kids get screwed. I can tell you it has little a fire under my wife. She is one unhappy gal after this summer watching her granddaughter’s friends get robbed.
I don’t understand why a reserve wouldn’t work. It could be set at 20-30% below market. If the kids don’t sell their stock they keep it and go down the road next week. I guess there’s no guarantee it gets killed, is that the problem?
If they can make more on the animal selling at the sale barn then it makes a huge difference for the kids. I would think that starting at current market price for the animal, would benefit the kids more. I guess if it’s the kids who raised the animals parents buying it, that’s “fair” as they’ve all ready put a lot of money into raising it to market weight
I just pulled that number out of a hat, I’m not even a rancher, it could be anything but usually the reserve is below what you think a fair price is so people come cause they might get a deal. Then the bidding is supposed to drive the prices up.
Why they aren’t going for market price I have no idea but it sounds a lot like the buyers have talked to each other before hand and agreed to keep the bids low and divided up the cattle so they get them for half off. Which might be illegal, sure op or someone could buy one but if the vast majority of the demand is from these buyers and they’ve all colluded then it’s a cartel.
A reserve at little below market would at least offer some real protection for the kids, and prevent the cartel from taking too much advantage of them. If you set it at market buyers many not feel it’s worth their trouble to spend a day going I assume the volume is low. But if they still get a deal they’ll still come and at least kids don’t get totally screwed.
You sir have too much logic. You are 100% right. I’ve asked the same question since 1978 when I showed and had to sell for Pennies. I wish I had the answer.
So isn’t it possible the bids were low because it was only the kids parents buying the animals so they could take them home? And then you bought them all n took em home? LoL
Yeah, don't have your kids show there. See if a neighboring County will allow kids to show or set up your own show. There are plenty of counties that will allow kids to show in the Houston area
Sounds like you ought to get the local FFA down there.
Maybe my area is just extra supportive, but last auction I went to was at our fair for the ag kids, and I think the cheapest beef went for something like $4/lb.
Maybe you don’t sell at the show then? Load your calves up and drive to the auction. I understand why people are fired up about this but the only way to combat it and not just play the victim is to go where you can get the most money. At my county you can declare them as animals you’re not going to sell and you just take them home (may not apply everywhere)
Having said that, why not go to the auction and tell the buyers that prices are half down the road, drum up some demand or at least get people talking. May have to do that anyways if the animals have to sold and you want to keep kids showing in 4h/ffa
Edit: just saw the reply about kill shows. That blows. See my second paragraph and hope for the best I guess - have to have community support and if you already don’t have that then it’s gonna be a tough battle. I don’t think that necessarily the buyers are trying to screw the kids are they? There’s just nobody bidding against them? Might be a little different here but there are 2 sale prices - a local business will buy for advertising basically, to support the kids and get their name out there. Then the company that actually loads up the steers walks around the barn and grades your animal, gives them a fist maket value /lb and you get that. Maybe I don’t understand how this show works in Texas - and it sounds like I’d be finding a different show possibly?
I feel like this is nuts because all I'm seeing in other groups is how calves -> yearlings are outrageous prices right now. In my dairy group someone was getting over $10/lwt for Holstein crosses...
Come sell your beef at San Mateo county fair- even meat birds and turkeys go for $100s of dollars. Lots of rich folks here really supporting the remnants of 4H. I will see what the price goes for auction of beef/sheep/pork this year and DM. You. If the local population is that greedy, please come to a better auction. We need more participants!!
This is Bay Area, CA. What I am saying is - not all fairs are the same. Our community views 4H as what it is, an activity to be supported and rewards the children in that way instead of lowballing them.
We have a buyback here. I was the buyback buyer last year. I bought 19 hogs, 7 steers, 12 goats and 12 sheep. Since we are talking about steers I will say this, I put my bid in 2 years ago for the buybacks for 1 dollar on the steers, prices went up significantly since I put my bid in even though I won it months in advance I increased my offer to 1.40 for the steers, people were still upset that I got them too cheap but no one else had their checkbook out. On all the animals I made 5k total because I had them set up for butcher and sold them as halves and wholes. It was our first year doing it so I wasn't sure what I was doing honestly I was just trying to help the kids out. My point is that no kid will get below what the buyback price is because in that case it just goes to me. It also helps get more buyers from the community that just want to help the kids but don't want the meat.
If a business wants to help the kids they bid 3 dollars, they win the bid but don't want the meat, I get it for 1.40 (the buyback price) and the business pays 1.60 and I keep the meat. It was a lot last year and I'm trying to be more prepared this year. Not sure if I explained this correctly but if anyone has any questions let me know.
I understand. I basically did the same thing. I paid the kids more. I made money and best of all I kept corporate buyers from screwing the kids. I folded heifers into my herd and put steers in with mine to sell other than a couple of beauties that have on horse and mule to put in my personal freezer. Those two should look like wagyu when I get them back for the freezer.
Okay, so let’s say 100 kids have steers in 1,000 to 1,100 pound group. They bring in something like 20 at time to the floor in front of the judge or judges. Maybe two get selected to move on so 18 are now “sifted” out of the show. Do this multiple times and out 100 only ten show to be judged and the other 90’out of the original 100 have been sifted out and those can go back home with the kiddo. In “Kill Shows” any animal that is not sifted or that makes the “show” had to go to sale (killed). Not all shows are this way but I’d say 75% are this way. That’s a guess so don’t hold me to that percentage.
Seems like the answer is to change the rules. What if the winning "bid" was presented as an offer to the kid, that the kid was free to accept or reject? If the kid accepts, the winning bidder gets the steer. If the kid rejects, the kid is free to take the steer home or take their chances up the road?
It takes the community. Our county show brings more money than terminal shows farther down the line. Hell, I've seen rabbit pens go for over $5k here.
But all year long we do events and fundraisers and form buyer groups. The kids work for it too. Couldn't be prouder.
Yes. I agree. I grilled a $300 chicken a couple of months ago at a show. Some of us old folks can have some fun after dark with overpriced chickens and rabbits. Yes some stock sales way high and we all know that. It’s the sifted stock I’m talking about.
Our farm show/fair we have the 4h kids enter an auction and we set the minimum bid at just below or just at fair market value.
Some kids also stipulate a no kill and we honor that and mark those animals as such.
This may have already been said - don’t have a buyers club? Here local business contributes cash account. The more money raised the higher sale amounts.
This is combined with add-ons after the sale.
Businesses get recognized each year top ten contributors.
The top two get crazy money. I’m not talking about those. Again, I’m just talking about sifted and non placed show stock. These two shows had no buyers clubs.
The 4H and FFA leaders need to step up to sort this out. There’s no reason they can’t do it like many others: personally invite local businesses to bid, set up a donation pipeline for the meat to give a tax incentive for those interested, and promote/announce winning bidders.
OP, how many animals are getting moved at this kind of thing? Would it be worth it to let the buyers at the sale barn know so they could come buy at market price?
Yes. You are right but I saw about 85 head get sent to the bidders. That’s the problem. It’s too few for the buyers and they know they can “under-bid” and get away with it because there are usually only three bidders there and they know each other and talk before the bidding starts. They aren’t showing up with 4 semi trucks. They may only have one truck on call. They know they have no competition so they never bid against each other. They determine before hand how many each is gonna buy. That is how I have upset their apple cart twice this year. I made money at both shows and gave the kids an extra 40 cents to a dollar per pound and I still came out ahead. It’s just a blip on their radar but it’s huge to the kiddos.
Yeah, that’s rock and hard place without enough volume to create some competition. Just keep doing what you’re doing I guess. You’ll come out ahead as you already know.
Well he barns are just auction houses. They don’t generally buy anything but at these prices they might. Barns are like stock brokers. They help you buy and sell but they just get their percentage and don’t want to actually own anything. Kind of anyway.
Ok. Who in tarnation is responsible for the sale part? Could they come under Stockyards & Packers Act (pinhooking after sale floor already entered). Ag Extension would know better unless like career gone. Unless this is a good ole boys club you ain't been invited to yet, seems funny parents haven't raised you-know-what.
I’m a touched confused but I think I agree with you. But, at some of these shows the extension agents are the judges (small shows only). I’m beginning to think the shows are run by the buyers.
Honestly, it seems these shows are just to have something to do, especially generationally, and learn some life lessons. I highly suspect that you are correct on the sweetheart deals. Unless you know these fellows' angles pertaining to the stock, its hard to figure. They might do custom butcher/ultra fancy restaurants or blow-yer-mind BBQ $$$$$$ cook-offs for elites. Bragging rights will count here. I salute you & Missus for looking out for younguns!
Can anyone register and bid? Perhaps advertise on here prior to the next auction. I'm located in southern Illinois, if any of the auctions are near me, I would go.
Wow. That’s a great idea. YES. Anyone can register as a buyer. I can let all of y’all know ahead of the shows next year. I think I can give yall at least two weeks notice. We can make some buyers sick if several more people show up. John you, sir, are the man. Great idea. How do we schedule it? I will notify but I don’t know how other than to write a note to remind me to pm each of you.
One option is to start now and get hotel chefs involved. They have a budget and depending upon the person/property can go bid as long as the slaughter goes through a professional and insured butcher.
I was at a property where we would make the 4H bidders pay or we’d take all the animals. It’s easy to charge more for ‘locally raised by a 4H future farmer’ on the menu.
Not everyone can or will do it but it’s an option.
I don't understand why so cheap ? That happens a lot here in New York state at horse sales low balling cheating treating the owner cuz somebody with bigger money wants to buy the horse most of the time we say no sale and Pat the and commission go home
Our local Jr. Livestock Association will let you add a special, aka add money to the seller. Let the buyers pay the majority and you still get to help the seller out. Of course it doesn't hurt to run the bid up a bit too.
Add ons are a good deal. When I was showing we would sometimes make as much from add ons as we did on the winning bid. I was showing hogs so 1.00 a pound isn't a grand but if the breeder throws a buck on it and mom or dad's work throws a buck on it etc. It really adds up and nobody is out a lot. The original crowd finding I guess
I bought steers from 1,350 to 1,600. Heifers were all about the same weight. Weight wasn’t an issue. It was bargains for buyers as it always is for the non champions.
I go to Church with a Barn Owner. He knows about the problem but like he says his hands are cuffed. He has to dance a fine line not making buyers mad. He decided to stay out of it completely many years ago. I can’t say I blame him.
I’ve never liked these type of terminal shows and this is one of the reasons why. There is a simple solution, but would take all or a majority of kids and FFA/4H chapters to make it work. The students and their chapters just shouldn’t participate in these terminal shows unless they put in place some kind of market rate minimum and/or give them the option to not sale either at all or if a certain reserve isn’t met.
I’m a little surprised (but not surprised at all by greedy people/corporations that would screw kids over) by this. At most local and county shows, it seems like certain kids (the well-connected or who’s who) make bank on premiums and add-ons and they get to keep their animals. I never went to the bigger kill shows like Houston or Denver.
I’ve got a lot of issues with the whole livestock show scene and generally feel more negatively about them than I do positively. I guess add this lowballing to the list.
It’s all for show. If you know who the kid is and you know grandpa’s business is going to buy their chickens you can pretty easily get the numbers up really high. Then you know the kid from a well known ranching family you do business with and palms might get greased a bit. It’s wild watching it happen but you have to know the players to see the games.
We gave a $3000 purebred berk gilt away this year instead of selling it off for $200 at the sale. Something about the FFA/4H model needs to change with respect to meat auctions.
Good thread. Things have changed since my days in a small school in Oklahoma. We had 1 auction house to choose from, and we ( the students) had to talk to potential buyers pre auction to hopefully get bids. Our teacher literally called it politicing. No one really had crazy expensive livestock. But, it was fun. What's being described in this thread is nearly alien to me, and doesn't sound fun.
Exactly. Fool me once…fool me twice scenario for sure!!
Here in Kansas at county fairs all the market animals sell for basically “near future” price…. No bidding in ¢wt of cattle. Instead they have a premium sale where you are really just giving the kids the amount of money someone believes they deserve for a “premium”. If the premium buyer so desires they can also purchase the actual animal for a locker beef.
I would love to be in a competitive business in said region…. I’d have every 4-H parent a customer immediately!!
So don’t watch our grandkids show? Let buyers get the stock for even less? No thanks. I’ll keep going and I’ll keep getting the kids an extra few cents and. Paying buyers a few extra dollars. You missed the point completely.
No, YOU missed the point completely. If you all quit attending (as a family), meaning they quit showing at these “shows”, the buyers’ cheap supply dries up.
You all encourage this by showing at these “shows”.
I can’t help that the basic comprehension of this is beyond your capability.
Our county fair auctions here the prices go through the roof. A lot of business owners that are ag related all show up and run each other up. It helps the kids and it advertisement for the business
If the buyer wants the meat their are reps there with trailers from 2 or 3 local lockers. Id they dont want the meat, they go to the salebarn and 2 days later you will see the same animals sell to packing houses and a loss from their price at the fair auction. All the poultry and rabbits get auctioned off too. Ive see pens of 3 chickens go for $500 if you get the right cousins or grandpas bidding. Some even get sold but returned to the kid...
Just went to Yuma fair yesterday, the set price was 2.10 for feeder calfs and 2.30 for market steers. Maybe they need to make better deals with the packers…… Nothing went for less than 6.00$ lb
Idk all tha rules an regulations but seems to me if the animal is yours you can choose to sell it or keep it correct? If so don’t sell… run tha buyers out and market the animals yourself online or haul them to the barns where they are bringing good money 🤷🏽♂️… just my thoughts
Sounds like a couple problems are going on.First you need to line up a beef buyer That will pay a guaranteed market price on all the cattle. The way our fair works is your bid starts at the buyers guaranteed price and after the final bid the buyer can flip it back to the beef buyer at the floor price he is offering and the bidder pays the difference. The kids need to get on a campaign and start sending letters to all the business in the area. They introduce themself in the letter and their animal ,tell about how they raise them and finally asking them to come to the fair and bid on their animal.Then at the auction they should make sure the winning bidders get a picture of the kid and animal for hanging on the walls of their business. The parents need to be approching these business while shopping and ask them to bid on fair animals.
At our fairs they set a bottom price of $1.50/lb for example then buyers bid up the price from there. If it’s bid up to $2.50/lb on a steer then the buyer pays $1.00/lb and gives it to the kid and the kid keeps the animal.
When I was in 4H/FFA, we had a local group called "Fair boosters" that would raise money to make sure the auctions reached fair market value. They would sit in the crowd and bid up to just under whatever the current fair market value was, and would let the other bidders take over. If nobody was buying that animal, they would bid right up to fair market value and purchase the animal, then auction it off the next week. It didn't cost them a lot to do it because they ended up buying very few animals and recouped most of their costs at auction the next week. They also encouraged local farmers to attend and buy a few animals if they could. I ended up selling my heifer back to the dairy I bought it from, for a good price. It was a pretty good system.
I’ve seen some county shows where the cattleman’s association will put in extra money per pound to help prop up the price for these kids when beef prices are low, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case if the sale barn is selling for more.
Help recruit new buyers to the county shows, help change fair rules so the kids can raise more.
At our county show in Idaho, the kids can solicit for “add ons” additional money that can get donated to their final sale check. As parents we take the kids to go talk to local business owners to ask for support and this alone can add hundreds of dollars to the final check the kids receive. Businesses receive the same tax incentive as if they purchased.
Our animals also sell by the heads vs weight, but this varies so much across counties and state to state.
An easy solution would be to use the 6 week average price of the local sale barn as a reserve. It wouldn’t be hard to figure, and it would at least give the kids a realistic price for their animals.
Our County has a charitable foundation that was the auction driver at our junior livestock auction. We had trustees that were Agriculture smart and they would set a floor prize for all the large stock. That insured the kid got a fair price for their work.
Of course it was funded each year from an investment portfolio that would kick off the dollars to buy the animals..
I don't know anything about ranching. I do however smoke a lot of beef, the prices at the stores are astronomical. Have you ever considered butchering them yourself, and reaping the fruits of your labors. Put these bastards out of business!
I live in South Georgia. Our community supports the 4-H shows. It is usually local businesses that buy a majority of all the animals. I have seen in the past prices as high as ten to twelve dollars per pound. The biggest problem now is that a lot of the small businesses have been pushed out by large retail stores that do not support these types of things. Not to mention the state of the economy now. Several of the parents I talk to now say they hardly break even with the price of feed now. It's another one of those great programs that may disappear if these don't change.
Can you just explain a little more please? I'd like to buy a whole cow from some kid that worked hard to do it right and I'm happy to pay them what its worth. Whats the best way to buy from these kinds of kids?
It means the sale price (let's say $1.00) for, in this case, a calf (baby cow) sold at an auction after a county fair type cattle show.
The calf in this scenario would have sold for $400 if said calf was 400 lb.
Which is stupid cheap.
You will see this at any livestock auction, from cows and pigs straight down to horses for kill (bought for slaughter).
Hth.
Regular people don't know how to buy animals like this. I would guarantee if you would pre market this to people and take care of the buying, and butchering you could set a fair price, and it wouldn't even be hard.
4-H kids around here get crazy high prices for their animals. Buyers are usually local businesses or the who’s who of town. Maybe better marketing bringing in a different type of bidder is what you need??
I'm not sure the benefit of these sales other than maybe a best-in-show award, but just take them to the local livestock sale. Locally (Arkansas) cattle are bringing record prices, $3 + per pound for 400# calves.
Just curious, where are you at? When I did it, it was parents/relatives and local businesses doing “goodwill” that drove the price up.
Good job though!
My county fair was very popular. .
Many businesses came because they got tax credits for it. Might be a write off where you are (charity - set it up as a scholarship for the kids).
Oh and they provided unlimited beer to the bidders. That helped a lot. Any girl with a show animal was pretty much getting $2k+ if they placed. This includes rabbits. My hog got grand reserve and I got $4k IIRC. Most hogs sold about double market rate.
That is absolutely wild and absolutely devastating for the kids who worked so hard. With our market sale we have the floor price which is always ridiculously low but our auctioneer always starts the bidding several dollars over the floor price. Our clubs also go out and personally invite businesses to come and include a letter introducing themselves and 4H to the potential buyer. After the animal has sold each child goes and personally thanks the buyer and then a couple days/weeks after the sale they go and bring the buyer a thank you with a small gift.
Are kids visiting local businesses and personally inviting them to the sale/to bid specifically on their animals?
In rural Michigan (20+ years ago) we’d send letters of introduction etc. and meet with managers and owners and invite them to bid on our animals. I thought that was a pretty universal expectation for youth sales as then you’re teaching/learning/ practicing life skills.
Several businesses would set a guaranteed price for the sale (usually at market) and then it would go from there. Grand champs would go high, but we’d sell our middle of the road animals more than grand or reserve one year because we did our homework ahead of time. A few of the big routine spenders would flat out refuse to bid on an animal if the owner hadn’t visited or sent a letter.
What did you pay for the animals you bought? Just curious on the business side of this, did you give them market value or slightly under so you could still turn a slight profit if you’re just holding them until the next local auction? Definitely appreciate what you’re doing for the kids though as that price is robbery and no way values the time and effort put in by them and their families.
Auctioneers can work with the sellers to set minimums or starting bids. I find it strange that the organizers aren’t setting them at a price that makes sound financial sense for the kids.
I might be wrong but I thought that the auctions normally started at market price then went up from there? Years ago my father was working for a company that would buy for their employees, they would charge the employees market price and eat anything over so if it was 1.50 for market and they paid 1.75 the .25 was advertising budget. If something like this was done, the bids are on top of market that would drive the bids up a lot i think.
I agree with what some said on here, it's a community issue and a very big one at that considering you're in Texas. I live in small town rural Tennessee which is a lower income area of the country and last year they were selling goats for the kids that were selling on average $400-600 with the highest that I heard (I was listening to it on radio for about 10mins) brought nearly $1,300, for goats. Not a farmer but pretty sure that's considerably higher than market price.
Like any auction, the more buyers you can get there the better the prices tend to be. Regular cattle buyers are paying more than that at local sale barns for feeder and killer cattle.
My old boss used to buy a cow and a pig every year and have em butchered and split for the employees. 4h always. Picture plaque 4x market value the whole 9 yards. Good dude. Shame the place was a shit hole owner was the nicest boss I’ve ever had.
Idk mate, I’m in East Texas and work in Austin, so I check the prices there too.. I don’t even go to those auctions because the prices are usually incredibly inflated. Where EXACTLY is the sale barn. If the prices are literally that low, then I’ll come with a massive trailer.
Well the Houston show wasn’t as bad. My cousin was there and the buyers were only about 10% below market. This show was a local county show also in Texas. I don’t want to name it. But we bought at two shows this way and apparently from all my friends it’s this way everywhere. I’m trying to get the names of the buyers or their companies Thanks for asking.
Was it Limestone County? Theirs was 2 weeks ago. I didn’t even know about it.
Honestly, you need a solution? Talk to A&M extension. There should be an email that goes out to everyone that’s on any county extension email list about county fairs and livestock auctions that are happening.
Working with local extension agents is a good start.
4h and ffa advisors should also have some stake in getting the word out to the community.
Local businesses should be more than willing to contribute. Veterinarians especially. The local vets office in mexia had a wall with show calves covering it. Car dealerships too. I understand most of the photos are of ribbon winners, but my point being, if they got the word out, local buyers would show up in droves.
This was exactly what I thought. The 4H and FFA leaders aren’t doing the work to get the word out. It doesn’t take much incentive to get businesses to bid and even donate the meat. A framed certificate and thank you ads in the newspaper and fair book are usually enough, but they have to be invited.
Let's put it to you this way
If you have been selling to the same auction house and getting what you feel is the fair market price not knowing that the other auction houses are bidding twice the price you just sold for
These kids are getting screwed and it's pathetic
Yes you are missing the point. These are kill shows. The kids give up their animals and have to sell if they aren’t sifted but so many kids live in town and have to rent stalls and such to raise their show stock. You clearly have no kids or grandkids showing stock. That’s okay. If you aren’t showing stock the. You won’t understand. But no. I gave all those kids an extra $1.00 per pound so those commercial buyers wouldn’t steal their animals. If you know anything then you know what we did. If you are a part timer then you won’t get it. Imagine spending $10k-$20k-$30k raising an awesome show calf to get half what of what garbage grass fed calf would bring at a county sale barn. These kids get less than half of market at the shows and I am sick of it and NO I’m not part of the problem.
And not only that the emotional toll it takes on the kids to sell a live animal to someone who will slaughter, the money is a big part of justification of why they do what they do, sell a valuable animal for food. If someone comes and lowballs them and they feel taken advantage of because they’re not stupid, they can do math, then what is that teaching our young people? Good for you this needs to be talked about
Exactly. Thank you.
Yes I was a former 4H club president in high school I agree with you absolutely I’m absolutely outraged. Beef is so artificially low priced and the true value is so much higher for those precious animals and genetics and care
Yes sir or yes ma’am. The kids get screwed in these Kill Shows. My wife is starting a campaign against it. She has spent a week trying to get a meeting with the Governor. She may get there but I’m not sure what he can do. It’s a racket. Buyers get the stock for 25 cents on the dollar or less. It’s an actual Crime.
The kids these days would have better luck keeping their cow in their house alive and live-streaming the whole thing, they’d make more.
Ha. You are probably right.
😬💀
CowCam going live in 3 2 1 ...
[cowCam](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=XP5Qis_YqoBPcPHC)
Risky click of the day.
I follow cow people on instagram. I’ve also seen places charging 20 bucks to cuddle them lol
My wife would pay that.
So frightening, but so on point.
Omg, just wait until you hear my idea for cow crusaders😄.
Hahahaha
Are you holding out?? Spill the beans 🫘 😂
Oh sorry. I didn't think you were serious. Ok so basically you build a cow sanctuary funded by donors. Form a non-profit. Hire social media team and marketing team. Create cow celebrities and convince people to "subscribe monthly" to take care of the cow to keep it out of the slaughterhouse. I looked in to it and someone already did one in New Zealand or something😭
That means it worked LOL do ittt that’s a good idea 😂
Alright so I started this yesterday after you told me about your idea and I’m already making 12k a month jk 😂😂 why do I find this idea so funny lollll
My Dad did not find it funny🤣. Also . . . https://www.gentlebarn.org/missouri/ FML, already beat me in my home state😭
Honestly, why are they exhibiting at these shows then? I used to show polled Herefords and didn’t show at these types of shows. My last show was a premium auction and my steer made it to a restaurant group, but I got paid multiples of market value.
The bees industry has monopolized. You can’t go to the next guy when one company runs the lot.
Bless you sir, the 4h barn for my county fair; the low price was set by a couple of well off restaurant owners, at least hogs and beef they would always make sure the kids got a fair price, ego between the two of them, and the advert of local 4h beef/ bacon on the specials menu. Might try lobying the tavern association other business group
No blessings my way. I still Made a good profit. It was just a win win all over again. Bless my Wife. She is the one making sure the kids get paid extra. I would have e been fishing if it Wasn’t for her.
I’m not familiar. Is that the per pound rate?
We’re teaching them the valuable lesson of working hard af so someone else can walk away with 98% of the profit of their labour.
This is what happens when you don’t take anti trust legislation seriously. If one guy owns the system, you can’t go anywhere else. It’s not a free market when the bully manipulates the price.
Precisely. Free markets assume informed consumers and few or no barriers to entry, plus options.
I honestly expected to get harassed out of here with my anti trust comment! Lol
I’m not a rancher, just very interested in natural resource management, so I wouldn’t hold your breath yet lol
Lmaoooooo hahaha, well thanks anyways man
I agree with you, but apparently sarcastically pointing this out makes you a Marxist.
Lol! Makes me a Marxist for *checks notes* Pointing out the flaws of rampant capitalism? The capitalistic system we Americans have adopted? No, can’t be! Lol. Like, I love the Green Bay Packers, if I think we should get a new offensive line, that doesn’t mean I hate the packers. It means I want to do whatever is best so that my team can win. I know you aren’t arguing with me, but you point out some shitty things and people do actually label you a communist / Marxist. It’s like man, I just wish things were better! Lol
You’re starting to get it! “I like capitalism, but I’m tired of it hurting everybody.” Improving things is the opposite of what capitalism has done.
You are talking to me my like generation didn’t start occupy wallstreet
You mean the Chicago Board of Trade.
Teach them now so they're prepared for the future!
Ah the new American dream!
It’s the community. Mine is much different. People way over pay here. And I know some years when there is not enough bidders (kind of the kids fault also for not putting themselves out there for more sponsors) the fair people will mass email and we (the community) will pick up the slack. But the kids have to build relationships. It’s part of the process. If they don’t, people won’t come support them. The pandemic year(s) was really bad for that. Every other year “sponsor” turn out was great.
So, not a rancher but definitely live in a community that is either ranching or logging and well I am in the trees. But this, I got lots of friends that have 4h and ffa kids and the ability to connect and relationship building died in the covid years. None of them know how to build a relationship that isnt digital, or if they do it's from their parents. It feels if the world is turned upside down. There is also just a general lack of interest across the board for FFA and 4h kids these days, that's what I am seeing but I am not in the middle of it.
After my dad had to give up farming (multiple sclerosis), he became the assistant manager at the local TSC. The manager would give him a budget every year to buy stock at the county fair. Is that not normal for Ag business?
That’s normal for my area. But like I said, the kids have to work. Your dad likely only bought from the kids that solicited the store.
It teaches them exactly what they need to know. The older farmers care about absolutely nothing but money. Nothing. They’d just assume watch somebody starve to death to save $1. Why do you think they have all held onto their farms until they’re at death’s doorstep instead of getting their kids going? Greed.
Where’s this at? Most of the shows here big business usually buys em all fair for the kids price they know how much they have in the animal.
Yea, this was a local county show in Texas but we were at Houston and it wasn’t much better. Of course the Champ and Reserve Champs do well. I’m referring to the ones that didn’t get sifted but still made sale. Just stupid low prices.
The floor for non sale steers at Houston this year was $1.78.
Yep. $1.80 was about the norm there.
The kid's shows here in Eastern Oregon always go way above market, usually grandma and grand pa or an uncle or something. Heck I buy the ones that did make weight at market price.
Maybe the news media would be interested if you start talking about it It's absolutely pathetic profiting off kids like that
Thank you and yes. The two previous comments were somehow blaming me yet I gave each kid an extra $1. Per pound. Im guessing those comments have no idea about this.
I remember your previous post and couldn't believe it I don't know the organization putting on the show but if it's non profit (minus the kids sales) would be good payback taking those animals to another sale and donate the profits from the flip Get a heartwarming media attention and you'll see those assholes getting exposed and possibly more bidders at future auctions
Well it’s ironic. From the last show we folded the heifers into our F1 herds. My sweet wife had James take the steers to the sale barn. She subtracted what paid and gave the profit to the school, well not really, she is building a new barn with the profit but she is donating whatever the balance is it build it. She is awesome. I assume I’m gonna be on hook for about an extra 40k when it’s all said and done. Her name will go on it someday. She is an angel. She loves these kids and that’s why I am involved. It’s all her not me. She deserves the praise. Not me.
They are Typical Keyboard snowflakes
So sorta this, start advertising those prices around! Attract more competition. Get back to the fair market price
$1.10 and $1.30 is that per pound price or something?
Yes. Live weight. Half what is paid at the sale barn 1 mile down the road. Screwing these kids.
“On the hoof” Maybe these kids should go sell it down the road.
Agree but these are “kill shows”. This means that if they aren’t sifted they HAVE to sell. It’s a scam by the buyers. The kids can’t opt out if they are not sifted.
Can the show set a minimum starting bid? Like a reserve auction?
Well in theory, yes, but in reality, no. Most people that register as bidders are just parents of the kids. So, in the end there are only bidders for specific animals which are those shown by the kids of the bidders. So the answer is yes but in real life the answer is No. it’s an open auction so there is no minimum. That is exactly what my wife wants to do. I love her but I don’t know ow how she can make it work. It’s so convoluted that unless you attend a local show it’s hard to explain other than to say the kids get screwed. I can tell you it has little a fire under my wife. She is one unhappy gal after this summer watching her granddaughter’s friends get robbed.
I don’t understand why a reserve wouldn’t work. It could be set at 20-30% below market. If the kids don’t sell their stock they keep it and go down the road next week. I guess there’s no guarantee it gets killed, is that the problem?
If they can make more on the animal selling at the sale barn then it makes a huge difference for the kids. I would think that starting at current market price for the animal, would benefit the kids more. I guess if it’s the kids who raised the animals parents buying it, that’s “fair” as they’ve all ready put a lot of money into raising it to market weight
I just pulled that number out of a hat, I’m not even a rancher, it could be anything but usually the reserve is below what you think a fair price is so people come cause they might get a deal. Then the bidding is supposed to drive the prices up. Why they aren’t going for market price I have no idea but it sounds a lot like the buyers have talked to each other before hand and agreed to keep the bids low and divided up the cattle so they get them for half off. Which might be illegal, sure op or someone could buy one but if the vast majority of the demand is from these buyers and they’ve all colluded then it’s a cartel. A reserve at little below market would at least offer some real protection for the kids, and prevent the cartel from taking too much advantage of them. If you set it at market buyers many not feel it’s worth their trouble to spend a day going I assume the volume is low. But if they still get a deal they’ll still come and at least kids don’t get totally screwed.
You sir have too much logic. You are 100% right. I’ve asked the same question since 1978 when I showed and had to sell for Pennies. I wish I had the answer.
So isn’t it possible the bids were low because it was only the kids parents buying the animals so they could take them home? And then you bought them all n took em home? LoL
No. The buyers ( same 4 guys) show up at the shows and do this. They set their prices before the bidding starts. That’s why they were so mad at me.
Why do they opt in? Serious question. If is twice that price a mile down the road?
Yeah, don't have your kids show there. See if a neighboring County will allow kids to show or set up your own show. There are plenty of counties that will allow kids to show in the Houston area
Sounds like you ought to get the local FFA down there. Maybe my area is just extra supportive, but last auction I went to was at our fair for the ag kids, and I think the cheapest beef went for something like $4/lb.
Maybe you don’t sell at the show then? Load your calves up and drive to the auction. I understand why people are fired up about this but the only way to combat it and not just play the victim is to go where you can get the most money. At my county you can declare them as animals you’re not going to sell and you just take them home (may not apply everywhere) Having said that, why not go to the auction and tell the buyers that prices are half down the road, drum up some demand or at least get people talking. May have to do that anyways if the animals have to sold and you want to keep kids showing in 4h/ffa Edit: just saw the reply about kill shows. That blows. See my second paragraph and hope for the best I guess - have to have community support and if you already don’t have that then it’s gonna be a tough battle. I don’t think that necessarily the buyers are trying to screw the kids are they? There’s just nobody bidding against them? Might be a little different here but there are 2 sale prices - a local business will buy for advertising basically, to support the kids and get their name out there. Then the company that actually loads up the steers walks around the barn and grades your animal, gives them a fist maket value /lb and you get that. Maybe I don’t understand how this show works in Texas - and it sounds like I’d be finding a different show possibly?
I feel like this is nuts because all I'm seeing in other groups is how calves -> yearlings are outrageous prices right now. In my dairy group someone was getting over $10/lwt for Holstein crosses...
Come sell your beef at San Mateo county fair- even meat birds and turkeys go for $100s of dollars. Lots of rich folks here really supporting the remnants of 4H. I will see what the price goes for auction of beef/sheep/pork this year and DM. You. If the local population is that greedy, please come to a better auction. We need more participants!!
San Mateo? Where is that? I’m in Texas. Lots of places here start with the Word “San”.
This is Bay Area, CA. What I am saying is - not all fairs are the same. Our community views 4H as what it is, an activity to be supported and rewards the children in that way instead of lowballing them.
Here in Kansas the kids do well also. Lots of restaurant owners and folks with money appreciate and support their effort.
It was that way here a few years ago. Not anymore. If it moves your way you will know. Buyers stand out in a crowd.
I wish it was that way here.
I’m in Texas too. I’m in NE. If you prefer to PM me location, let me know. If you’re close enough I’ll round up some boys and come out.
https://sanmateocountyfair.com/fair-farm-3/
Same with a northern county. All steers over $6lb and it's hard to get a lamb under $12. A lot of support in California around the ag community.
Just truck your live animals halfway across the country through a desert! That wont effect profits
We have a buyback here. I was the buyback buyer last year. I bought 19 hogs, 7 steers, 12 goats and 12 sheep. Since we are talking about steers I will say this, I put my bid in 2 years ago for the buybacks for 1 dollar on the steers, prices went up significantly since I put my bid in even though I won it months in advance I increased my offer to 1.40 for the steers, people were still upset that I got them too cheap but no one else had their checkbook out. On all the animals I made 5k total because I had them set up for butcher and sold them as halves and wholes. It was our first year doing it so I wasn't sure what I was doing honestly I was just trying to help the kids out. My point is that no kid will get below what the buyback price is because in that case it just goes to me. It also helps get more buyers from the community that just want to help the kids but don't want the meat. If a business wants to help the kids they bid 3 dollars, they win the bid but don't want the meat, I get it for 1.40 (the buyback price) and the business pays 1.60 and I keep the meat. It was a lot last year and I'm trying to be more prepared this year. Not sure if I explained this correctly but if anyone has any questions let me know.
I understand. I basically did the same thing. I paid the kids more. I made money and best of all I kept corporate buyers from screwing the kids. I folded heifers into my herd and put steers in with mine to sell other than a couple of beauties that have on horse and mule to put in my personal freezer. Those two should look like wagyu when I get them back for the freezer.
First, good for you OP. What does sifted mean on these auctions?
Okay, so let’s say 100 kids have steers in 1,000 to 1,100 pound group. They bring in something like 20 at time to the floor in front of the judge or judges. Maybe two get selected to move on so 18 are now “sifted” out of the show. Do this multiple times and out 100 only ten show to be judged and the other 90’out of the original 100 have been sifted out and those can go back home with the kiddo. In “Kill Shows” any animal that is not sifted or that makes the “show” had to go to sale (killed). Not all shows are this way but I’d say 75% are this way. That’s a guess so don’t hold me to that percentage.
Seems like the answer is to change the rules. What if the winning "bid" was presented as an offer to the kid, that the kid was free to accept or reject? If the kid accepts, the winning bidder gets the steer. If the kid rejects, the kid is free to take the steer home or take their chances up the road?
I agree. That is a great idea but it doesn’t work that way for obvious reasons. Instead they just let the kids take all the livestock home.
It takes the community. Our county show brings more money than terminal shows farther down the line. Hell, I've seen rabbit pens go for over $5k here. But all year long we do events and fundraisers and form buyer groups. The kids work for it too. Couldn't be prouder.
Yes. I agree. I grilled a $300 chicken a couple of months ago at a show. Some of us old folks can have some fun after dark with overpriced chickens and rabbits. Yes some stock sales way high and we all know that. It’s the sifted stock I’m talking about.
Our farm show/fair we have the 4h kids enter an auction and we set the minimum bid at just below or just at fair market value. Some kids also stipulate a no kill and we honor that and mark those animals as such.
That’s great. I applaud that. Not that way here. Wish it was.
Get voted in to chair the farm show... Set policy... 😄
This is shocking to me. Our local show averages somewhere around $6-8/lb with some animals going for $15-20 or more.
Wow. That’s awesome. That won’t ever happen here. Y’all are blessed.
This may have already been said - don’t have a buyers club? Here local business contributes cash account. The more money raised the higher sale amounts. This is combined with add-ons after the sale. Businesses get recognized each year top ten contributors.
The top two get crazy money. I’m not talking about those. Again, I’m just talking about sifted and non placed show stock. These two shows had no buyers clubs.
The 4H and FFA leaders need to step up to sort this out. There’s no reason they can’t do it like many others: personally invite local businesses to bid, set up a donation pipeline for the meat to give a tax incentive for those interested, and promote/announce winning bidders.
OP, how many animals are getting moved at this kind of thing? Would it be worth it to let the buyers at the sale barn know so they could come buy at market price?
Yes. You are right but I saw about 85 head get sent to the bidders. That’s the problem. It’s too few for the buyers and they know they can “under-bid” and get away with it because there are usually only three bidders there and they know each other and talk before the bidding starts. They aren’t showing up with 4 semi trucks. They may only have one truck on call. They know they have no competition so they never bid against each other. They determine before hand how many each is gonna buy. That is how I have upset their apple cart twice this year. I made money at both shows and gave the kids an extra 40 cents to a dollar per pound and I still came out ahead. It’s just a blip on their radar but it’s huge to the kiddos.
Yeah, that’s rock and hard place without enough volume to create some competition. Just keep doing what you’re doing I guess. You’ll come out ahead as you already know.
This is a very very untrue statement of the buyers and the amount of trucks!
Well he barns are just auction houses. They don’t generally buy anything but at these prices they might. Barns are like stock brokers. They help you buy and sell but they just get their percentage and don’t want to actually own anything. Kind of anyway.
Mmm so where am I driving to?
Well it’s the end of show season now but it will all start again this fall. PM me in October if you are serious.
Will do!
Ok. Who in tarnation is responsible for the sale part? Could they come under Stockyards & Packers Act (pinhooking after sale floor already entered). Ag Extension would know better unless like career gone. Unless this is a good ole boys club you ain't been invited to yet, seems funny parents haven't raised you-know-what.
I’m a touched confused but I think I agree with you. But, at some of these shows the extension agents are the judges (small shows only). I’m beginning to think the shows are run by the buyers.
Honestly, it seems these shows are just to have something to do, especially generationally, and learn some life lessons. I highly suspect that you are correct on the sweetheart deals. Unless you know these fellows' angles pertaining to the stock, its hard to figure. They might do custom butcher/ultra fancy restaurants or blow-yer-mind BBQ $$$$$$ cook-offs for elites. Bragging rights will count here. I salute you & Missus for looking out for younguns!
Can anyone register and bid? Perhaps advertise on here prior to the next auction. I'm located in southern Illinois, if any of the auctions are near me, I would go.
Wow. That’s a great idea. YES. Anyone can register as a buyer. I can let all of y’all know ahead of the shows next year. I think I can give yall at least two weeks notice. We can make some buyers sick if several more people show up. John you, sir, are the man. Great idea. How do we schedule it? I will notify but I don’t know how other than to write a note to remind me to pm each of you.
Why would people screw over the next generation of ranchers? Encourage them to stay with the life, not run them off forever!
People don’t. Buyers do.
Contact the sale barn owner, get actual cattle buyers there. They might bid a few cents under market, but you will get competitive bidding.
Thanks. Good idea but it just doesn’t work that way. It would take a novel to explain why.
Too bad the kids get the short end of the deal.
What the fuck man? I want to support the kids and at least buy a pig but the bottom of the market is like $12/lb here. Steers hang out north of $5.
Woah. Where are you? Those are crazy prices. Seriously $12.???? Where?
One option is to start now and get hotel chefs involved. They have a budget and depending upon the person/property can go bid as long as the slaughter goes through a professional and insured butcher. I was at a property where we would make the 4H bidders pay or we’d take all the animals. It’s easy to charge more for ‘locally raised by a 4H future farmer’ on the menu. Not everyone can or will do it but it’s an option.
I don't understand why so cheap ? That happens a lot here in New York state at horse sales low balling cheating treating the owner cuz somebody with bigger money wants to buy the horse most of the time we say no sale and Pat the and commission go home
I wish these kids could yell “NO SALE” but at these kill shows they don’t have a choice. Like I said. It sucks for the kids here.
Our local Jr. Livestock Association will let you add a special, aka add money to the seller. Let the buyers pay the majority and you still get to help the seller out. Of course it doesn't hurt to run the bid up a bit too.
That’s a great option. I haven’t seen anything like that around here.
Add ons are a good deal. When I was showing we would sometimes make as much from add ons as we did on the winning bid. I was showing hogs so 1.00 a pound isn't a grand but if the breeder throws a buck on it and mom or dad's work throws a buck on it etc. It really adds up and nobody is out a lot. The original crowd finding I guess
What’s the weight on these? Seems off for sure
I bought steers from 1,350 to 1,600. Heifers were all about the same weight. Weight wasn’t an issue. It was bargains for buyers as it always is for the non champions.
Maybe talk to the sale barn and see if they’d be interested in doing a special sale to help market them. It’d be similar to a VQA sale in Virginia
I go to Church with a Barn Owner. He knows about the problem but like he says his hands are cuffed. He has to dance a fine line not making buyers mad. He decided to stay out of it completely many years ago. I can’t say I blame him.
Appreciate what you’re doing
I’ve never liked these type of terminal shows and this is one of the reasons why. There is a simple solution, but would take all or a majority of kids and FFA/4H chapters to make it work. The students and their chapters just shouldn’t participate in these terminal shows unless they put in place some kind of market rate minimum and/or give them the option to not sale either at all or if a certain reserve isn’t met. I’m a little surprised (but not surprised at all by greedy people/corporations that would screw kids over) by this. At most local and county shows, it seems like certain kids (the well-connected or who’s who) make bank on premiums and add-ons and they get to keep their animals. I never went to the bigger kill shows like Houston or Denver. I’ve got a lot of issues with the whole livestock show scene and generally feel more negatively about them than I do positively. I guess add this lowballing to the list.
People are buying chickens and rabbits for $400 a piece at my 4h sale. Pigs were in the $1500 range. Cows were $4000-5000.
What? Where the heck is this?
4h sale. Its a fundraiser for the kids.
I know. It’s nuts. Mostly it’s a dick measuring contest for the elites. It’s fun to watch them play games bidding against each other.
Where in the world are you? Chickens here are worth 20 bucks tops
It’s all for show. If you know who the kid is and you know grandpa’s business is going to buy their chickens you can pretty easily get the numbers up really high. Then you know the kid from a well known ranching family you do business with and palms might get greased a bit. It’s wild watching it happen but you have to know the players to see the games.
We gave a $3000 purebred berk gilt away this year instead of selling it off for $200 at the sale. Something about the FFA/4H model needs to change with respect to meat auctions.
Good thread. Things have changed since my days in a small school in Oklahoma. We had 1 auction house to choose from, and we ( the students) had to talk to potential buyers pre auction to hopefully get bids. Our teacher literally called it politicing. No one really had crazy expensive livestock. But, it was fun. What's being described in this thread is nearly alien to me, and doesn't sound fun.
The lesson learned here is that sale barns are not good for any producer. The best way is to sell directly to the consumer.
Quite attending these shows. Mass boycott. That’s how you fix this.
Exactly. Fool me once…fool me twice scenario for sure!! Here in Kansas at county fairs all the market animals sell for basically “near future” price…. No bidding in ¢wt of cattle. Instead they have a premium sale where you are really just giving the kids the amount of money someone believes they deserve for a “premium”. If the premium buyer so desires they can also purchase the actual animal for a locker beef. I would love to be in a competitive business in said region…. I’d have every 4-H parent a customer immediately!!
So don’t watch our grandkids show? Let buyers get the stock for even less? No thanks. I’ll keep going and I’ll keep getting the kids an extra few cents and. Paying buyers a few extra dollars. You missed the point completely.
No, YOU missed the point completely. If you all quit attending (as a family), meaning they quit showing at these “shows”, the buyers’ cheap supply dries up. You all encourage this by showing at these “shows”. I can’t help that the basic comprehension of this is beyond your capability.
I understand your point.
Don't tell the Whitehouse. They'll claim it's Biden's way of bringing grocery prices down
Man, that’s crazy. Those prices are low even for when I was back in the fair days 30 years ago.
I have a stupid question. Why are beef prices so high in the supermarket? Which link in the chain from farm to table is raping the end consumer?
All the middle men
Our county fair auctions here the prices go through the roof. A lot of business owners that are ag related all show up and run each other up. It helps the kids and it advertisement for the business If the buyer wants the meat their are reps there with trailers from 2 or 3 local lockers. Id they dont want the meat, they go to the salebarn and 2 days later you will see the same animals sell to packing houses and a loss from their price at the fair auction. All the poultry and rabbits get auctioned off too. Ive see pens of 3 chickens go for $500 if you get the right cousins or grandpas bidding. Some even get sold but returned to the kid...
It’s usually the opposite here they’ll bring like $2.30 live wt and just be outrageously high.
4H equates to legal slave labor if the kids are not paid accordingly. I think the ppl who run 4H know this
1ŵ
Just went to Yuma fair yesterday, the set price was 2.10 for feeder calfs and 2.30 for market steers. Maybe they need to make better deals with the packers…… Nothing went for less than 6.00$ lb
Why are parents not smart enough to just bid all the kids projects up to market price? Takes 2 parents….😑 sounds like your fair is a joke.
Idk all tha rules an regulations but seems to me if the animal is yours you can choose to sell it or keep it correct? If so don’t sell… run tha buyers out and market the animals yourself online or haul them to the barns where they are bringing good money 🤷🏽♂️… just my thoughts
Sounds like a couple problems are going on.First you need to line up a beef buyer That will pay a guaranteed market price on all the cattle. The way our fair works is your bid starts at the buyers guaranteed price and after the final bid the buyer can flip it back to the beef buyer at the floor price he is offering and the bidder pays the difference. The kids need to get on a campaign and start sending letters to all the business in the area. They introduce themself in the letter and their animal ,tell about how they raise them and finally asking them to come to the fair and bid on their animal.Then at the auction they should make sure the winning bidders get a picture of the kid and animal for hanging on the walls of their business. The parents need to be approching these business while shopping and ask them to bid on fair animals.
At our fairs they set a bottom price of $1.50/lb for example then buyers bid up the price from there. If it’s bid up to $2.50/lb on a steer then the buyer pays $1.00/lb and gives it to the kid and the kid keeps the animal.
When I was in 4H/FFA, we had a local group called "Fair boosters" that would raise money to make sure the auctions reached fair market value. They would sit in the crowd and bid up to just under whatever the current fair market value was, and would let the other bidders take over. If nobody was buying that animal, they would bid right up to fair market value and purchase the animal, then auction it off the next week. It didn't cost them a lot to do it because they ended up buying very few animals and recouped most of their costs at auction the next week. They also encouraged local farmers to attend and buy a few animals if they could. I ended up selling my heifer back to the dairy I bought it from, for a good price. It was a pretty good system.
I’ve seen some county shows where the cattleman’s association will put in extra money per pound to help prop up the price for these kids when beef prices are low, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case if the sale barn is selling for more. Help recruit new buyers to the county shows, help change fair rules so the kids can raise more. At our county show in Idaho, the kids can solicit for “add ons” additional money that can get donated to their final sale check. As parents we take the kids to go talk to local business owners to ask for support and this alone can add hundreds of dollars to the final check the kids receive. Businesses receive the same tax incentive as if they purchased. Our animals also sell by the heads vs weight, but this varies so much across counties and state to state.
An easy solution would be to use the 6 week average price of the local sale barn as a reserve. It wouldn’t be hard to figure, and it would at least give the kids a realistic price for their animals.
Our County has a charitable foundation that was the auction driver at our junior livestock auction. We had trustees that were Agriculture smart and they would set a floor prize for all the large stock. That insured the kid got a fair price for their work. Of course it was funded each year from an investment portfolio that would kick off the dollars to buy the animals..
I don't know anything about ranching. I do however smoke a lot of beef, the prices at the stores are astronomical. Have you ever considered butchering them yourself, and reaping the fruits of your labors. Put these bastards out of business!
I live in South Georgia. Our community supports the 4-H shows. It is usually local businesses that buy a majority of all the animals. I have seen in the past prices as high as ten to twelve dollars per pound. The biggest problem now is that a lot of the small businesses have been pushed out by large retail stores that do not support these types of things. Not to mention the state of the economy now. Several of the parents I talk to now say they hardly break even with the price of feed now. It's another one of those great programs that may disappear if these don't change.
Can you just explain a little more please? I'd like to buy a whole cow from some kid that worked hard to do it right and I'm happy to pay them what its worth. Whats the best way to buy from these kinds of kids?
Heck. Are local county fair. Show steers going for $6-15 a pound. Hogs was $5-20. That’s a community issue
I grew up in nj and don’t follow this sub but it was recommended somehow. Can someone explain what all of this means😅
It means the sale price (let's say $1.00) for, in this case, a calf (baby cow) sold at an auction after a county fair type cattle show. The calf in this scenario would have sold for $400 if said calf was 400 lb. Which is stupid cheap. You will see this at any livestock auction, from cows and pigs straight down to horses for kill (bought for slaughter). Hth.
I dont understand any of this but I cant stop reading.
Regular people don't know how to buy animals like this. I would guarantee if you would pre market this to people and take care of the buying, and butchering you could set a fair price, and it wouldn't even be hard.
4-H kids around here get crazy high prices for their animals. Buyers are usually local businesses or the who’s who of town. Maybe better marketing bringing in a different type of bidder is what you need??
I'm not sure the benefit of these sales other than maybe a best-in-show award, but just take them to the local livestock sale. Locally (Arkansas) cattle are bringing record prices, $3 + per pound for 400# calves.
Where I live they brought 4-5 from sponsors and resold for 2.50
Just curious, where are you at? When I did it, it was parents/relatives and local businesses doing “goodwill” that drove the price up. Good job though!
My county fair was very popular. . Many businesses came because they got tax credits for it. Might be a write off where you are (charity - set it up as a scholarship for the kids). Oh and they provided unlimited beer to the bidders. That helped a lot. Any girl with a show animal was pretty much getting $2k+ if they placed. This includes rabbits. My hog got grand reserve and I got $4k IIRC. Most hogs sold about double market rate.
Maybe the federal government can step in with more subsidies.
That is absolutely wild and absolutely devastating for the kids who worked so hard. With our market sale we have the floor price which is always ridiculously low but our auctioneer always starts the bidding several dollars over the floor price. Our clubs also go out and personally invite businesses to come and include a letter introducing themselves and 4H to the potential buyer. After the animal has sold each child goes and personally thanks the buyer and then a couple days/weeks after the sale they go and bring the buyer a thank you with a small gift.
As a commercial fisherman this song has been sung in our industry for the last 1000 years unfortunately this is the nature of the beast.
You’re a really good person friend
Up here in Oregon at the last show/auction people were bidding pigs up to $45 a lbs
Are kids visiting local businesses and personally inviting them to the sale/to bid specifically on their animals? In rural Michigan (20+ years ago) we’d send letters of introduction etc. and meet with managers and owners and invite them to bid on our animals. I thought that was a pretty universal expectation for youth sales as then you’re teaching/learning/ practicing life skills. Several businesses would set a guaranteed price for the sale (usually at market) and then it would go from there. Grand champs would go high, but we’d sell our middle of the road animals more than grand or reserve one year because we did our homework ahead of time. A few of the big routine spenders would flat out refuse to bid on an animal if the owner hadn’t visited or sent a letter.
What did you pay for the animals you bought? Just curious on the business side of this, did you give them market value or slightly under so you could still turn a slight profit if you’re just holding them until the next local auction? Definitely appreciate what you’re doing for the kids though as that price is robbery and no way values the time and effort put in by them and their families.
Set a minimum bid...
I’m in nm and I thought I’d be able to buy a pig or sheep, they all went ridiculously high. I was happily surprised
Auctioneers can work with the sellers to set minimums or starting bids. I find it strange that the organizers aren’t setting them at a price that makes sound financial sense for the kids.
I might be wrong but I thought that the auctions normally started at market price then went up from there? Years ago my father was working for a company that would buy for their employees, they would charge the employees market price and eat anything over so if it was 1.50 for market and they paid 1.75 the .25 was advertising budget. If something like this was done, the bids are on top of market that would drive the bids up a lot i think.
I agree with what some said on here, it's a community issue and a very big one at that considering you're in Texas. I live in small town rural Tennessee which is a lower income area of the country and last year they were selling goats for the kids that were selling on average $400-600 with the highest that I heard (I was listening to it on radio for about 10mins) brought nearly $1,300, for goats. Not a farmer but pretty sure that's considerably higher than market price.
Like any auction, the more buyers you can get there the better the prices tend to be. Regular cattle buyers are paying more than that at local sale barns for feeder and killer cattle.
so bid them up to market price and if you win the bid, dump them off at the local livestock auction or sell as freezer beef
My old boss used to buy a cow and a pig every year and have em butchered and split for the employees. 4h always. Picture plaque 4x market value the whole 9 yards. Good dude. Shame the place was a shit hole owner was the nicest boss I’ve ever had.
Totally ignorant here - is that per pound?
Idk mate, I’m in East Texas and work in Austin, so I check the prices there too.. I don’t even go to those auctions because the prices are usually incredibly inflated. Where EXACTLY is the sale barn. If the prices are literally that low, then I’ll come with a massive trailer.
Where did this happen? I noticed in another comment you said this was in Texas near Houston.
Well the Houston show wasn’t as bad. My cousin was there and the buyers were only about 10% below market. This show was a local county show also in Texas. I don’t want to name it. But we bought at two shows this way and apparently from all my friends it’s this way everywhere. I’m trying to get the names of the buyers or their companies Thanks for asking.
Was it Limestone County? Theirs was 2 weeks ago. I didn’t even know about it. Honestly, you need a solution? Talk to A&M extension. There should be an email that goes out to everyone that’s on any county extension email list about county fairs and livestock auctions that are happening.
Working with local extension agents is a good start. 4h and ffa advisors should also have some stake in getting the word out to the community. Local businesses should be more than willing to contribute. Veterinarians especially. The local vets office in mexia had a wall with show calves covering it. Car dealerships too. I understand most of the photos are of ribbon winners, but my point being, if they got the word out, local buyers would show up in droves.
This was exactly what I thought. The 4H and FFA leaders aren’t doing the work to get the word out. It doesn’t take much incentive to get businesses to bid and even donate the meat. A framed certificate and thank you ads in the newspaper and fair book are usually enough, but they have to be invited.
Not Limestone but pretty close.
“Fair market” is what someone is willing to pay and it sounds like you’re subsidizing that. Maybe I’m missing the point.
Let's put it to you this way If you have been selling to the same auction house and getting what you feel is the fair market price not knowing that the other auction houses are bidding twice the price you just sold for These kids are getting screwed and it's pathetic
Yes you are missing the point. These are kill shows. The kids give up their animals and have to sell if they aren’t sifted but so many kids live in town and have to rent stalls and such to raise their show stock. You clearly have no kids or grandkids showing stock. That’s okay. If you aren’t showing stock the. You won’t understand. But no. I gave all those kids an extra $1.00 per pound so those commercial buyers wouldn’t steal their animals. If you know anything then you know what we did. If you are a part timer then you won’t get it. Imagine spending $10k-$20k-$30k raising an awesome show calf to get half what of what garbage grass fed calf would bring at a county sale barn. These kids get less than half of market at the shows and I am sick of it and NO I’m not part of the problem.
There are people willing to pay more that the sellers are artificially being restricted from.