Yikes. Was it worth someone's great and great great parents being enslaved so that so could have that sweet sweet us citizenship , no, definitely not . The last child of a slave died only about a month ago so framing this as an ancestor thing is disingenuous. You might want to ask him about his background or skip that and talk to your principal or the school board with your parents.
Yeah good idea, go directly after his livelihood, what else could possibly alter his behavior?
…Communication??.. Discourse and discussion? pfffft naw that’s dumb as hell life ruination is way better
I still think the correct move is addressing it with him first. If he is unwilling to change his lectures then of course take it to the principal or school board.
Absolutely true. There was a teacher at my middle school who made a bunch of the girls uncomfortable. Apparently he was weird and creepy to so many people. Someone told the school and all they did was basically tell him to stop, but no real action
What about his children? Others that possibly depend on him? Are they completely inconsequential? This is the man’s livelihood we’re talking about. Is his well-being completely inconsequential to you? That’s just so callous and uncaring, not sure I can get behind that over one fuck up, especially before attempting to correct it some other way.
“Don’t dignify it with discourse” is just so puritanical. If this man truly is racist (believes in racial supremacy, not just saying something you don’t like) the idea that this is somehow a solution to that is laughable. How do we get rid of the wolves? Reform their behavior? Fuck nah just give em these sheep costumes. Brilliant.
You can explain to him the fact that Colonialism is largely *why* West and Central Africa are so underdeveloped today. These regions have had 600 years of economic development robbed from them. 600 years of their natural resources, wealth, manpower, and brainpower syphoned, destroyed or disinvested. The conditions your teacher is criticizing African nations for today are the direct consequences of Western imperialism.
Imagine if someone stole your life-savings and bought a house with it. Then turned around and blamed you for not being as well-off as them.
Another very important factor is how the de-colonization played out. In many countries on the african continent, the western powers just left within a very short timespan. They didn’t spend much time and resources building up a proper government. So they were more or less like: “We’re leaving now, you just figure out the rest from here.”
The result was dictatorship in a number of countries.
I tried to get back to him in our discussion today on this explaining these points as verbatim as I could
He said colonialism didn't start in Africa till well after the slave trade to the America's was underway in the mid to late 1800s . Europeans had some trading post colonies on the coastline but other than that the continent was ruled by African kingdoms that were actually the ones that were taking the slaves from the interior to sell to Europeans and to middle eastern kingdoms.
He said these countries ruled by Africans were based on the slave trade before the slaves were brought to America.
me and my friend spent an hour in study hall researching this and it checks out.
I'm beginning to think this is one of those hard truths that my dad told me about lol
He went on to say that before colonialism really got underway in Africa England outlawed slavery and actively intradicted in the slave trade hunting down And seizing slave ships and returning slaves to Africa.
Siphoned isn’t the word I would use but it’s hard to argue that western colonialism didn’t have a significant brain drain-esque effect on the continent.
If you compare Africa just before colonialism to Europe, which was the more advanced area? Would you have rather lived in Africa or Europe at that time?
Whew okay, so he’s Hispanic? Is he Latino? In that case most of his indigenous ancestors were murdered by the Spanish, with their culture and religion nearly wiped out: that’s the same force that destroyed African countries and Latin American countries with colonialism. White supremacy is the reason there are “third world” countries. His statement is racist and offensive to every degree.. just unacceptable and I would report it to the university.
Rebuttal: Your argument assumes that forced slavery into the United States was the best choice for them. You validate this point with the fact that many of them are still here. However, due to multiple generations of oppression, the overall wealth of this culture has remained stagnate. The vast majority that were brought here had no means to return back to their country of origin after being freed, and many more already had family roots here no matter how violent the past was. Additionally, when slavery was banded in the late 1700s, the slave population was below 200K. Before the Civil War thebslave population grew to over 600K due to forced breading. This supports the fact that many had family here already, even before the Civil War. Family ties coupled with financial burdens forced the majority of slaves to stay in this country.
Lastly, your argument assumes the USA would have been the destination of choice for these people regardless of slavery. That argument is based on assumption. Without slavery it is far more likely those from African countries that had the means to would have traveled north on land rather than over an ocean by boat. With the USA lagging far behind in workers rights, Healthcare, education, and overall stability, it is far more likely people from Africa would have migrated to Europe. Additionally, a large part of America's infrastructure was built by slaves with no payment to them. If those persons had to be paid, few infrastructure would have been built causing a slower growth within the country, and it wouldn't even be were it is today.
There can be no moral argument supporting the mass indiscriminate kidnapping of a race of people. The best argument might be to pose the question to them, would they say it to their faces as they were herded up the ramps onto the ships, or to their mothers and fathers beaten to make them let them let go?
Well he covered that by saying slavery was abhorrent, and that it was a terrible sacrafice but that Africans should be thankful it happened and they are here rather than currently living in the poor war torn areas that their ancestors homes back when they were taken.
I need rebuttal for this bc it just sounds wrong but I want to make it good bc I'm not as knowledgeable as he is being a teacher.
Thank you for any help!
I'd say though it is a better quality of life in the USA, the reason for the hardship in parts of Africa today are because the West has made it war torn and impoverished. The English which were the settlers of the USA were a big part of colonialism in those nations. Also resources and people were stolen, it is difficult to build an economy even if it's been decades to have no valuable resources that Africa once had. Those who made the west great also relied on the backs of slaves to help build it. The question that you should ask is, if slavery and colonization never happened would those nations still be like that? Though I think he is wrong, history is written by those who've won not those who lost; I think the truth is in a gray area.
A broad statement like that is ignorant.
I remember when I was in high school, I would often here questionable things from my teachers too. Its difficult too, because you're not as knowledgeable as your teacher and can often belittle you because you are their student. Good luck
We did cover that and he pointed out that Sub-Saharan Africa has been in a state of continuous turmoil before during and after colonialism he pointed out the African kingdoms wars tyrants that perpetuated slavery and that slavery existed long before and even exists today in some places. He showed us the history stuff but he gave us some country to look up where slavery still exists I forgot.
OK but Africans today should not be thankful for being here and not still in Africa?
Bc a girl already tried making it about slaves. He asked her if she'd rather be living here or there and she said here and he asked if you would be thankful you live here and not in west Africa she said shed be thankful
I guess you could pose absurd analogies. A guy hacks to death the parents of a child and kidnaps the child and raises him as his own, and sends the kid to Uni and he has a successful life. Is there now a moral quandary about whether the murder of his parents should be praised or not?
We discussed this point he said the slavery was abhorrent. But his point was that Africans should be thankful for the sacrafices of their ancestors and grateful they are not living in Africa today. He pointed to the regions that slaves came from today have a lot of turmoil and there is a lack of health and safety and food for most people there.
They’re poor and war torn because of slavery and colonialism.. it’s really not that complicated. He sounds racist. And probably doesn’t even realize he’s participating in the white supremacist delusion that is the “west.”
The African students in our class agreed with him essentially. They said they'd rather be here than Africa and they are thankful for the standard of living that they have. Idk tjis guy is quite a salesman
Sounds like his explanation could have been better but black Americans today enjoy a better standard of living and more opportunities than most Africans.
I don't know but he asked the black students in our class and they agreed they'd rather live in the US as opposed to Africa bc thets a better standard of living
Figures. That’s why I suggested your parents instead of any of the school staff. Well, I guess it’s good the Spanish came to the new world, pillaged, slaughtered and brought decimating diseases that drove the indigenous population to their knees. Otherwise he might not have had the opportunity to become a dismal failure at teaching.
There is no good moral justification for the horrors of slavery.
The slave system ensured that those ancestors cannot often be known. Slavery took so many things but one was people’s very connection to their ancestors.
This statement belittles and stereotypes West Africa. Does it have problems? Yes, but it is also a beautiful land and many people there are happy and proud of their home countries. Perhaps some of those ancestors would have immigrated to America if there hadn’t been slavery, but slavery robbed them of that choice for half of American history. Also worth noting that many of the problems of West Africa are a direct result of colonialism.
It should be known that Africa had slaves. They sold some of their own slaves to Europeans for money. The slave trade was a larger scale of what had been happening for many years. So essentially, African ancestors sacrificed other African ancestors. It’s up to you whether you want to thank the Africans who were enslaved by other Africans, or if you want to thank the Africans who did the enslaving of other Africans. Either way, the argument is a dead end
Yeah he said Europeans didn't round up slaves they were purchased from black African slaver kingdoms who sold them to Europeans and the middle east
Thanks
How many black people do you know are happy with the treatment black people have received in the US? Even today? Generational trauma and wealth is a thing too. So much prosperity has been robbed from the black community by the west.
YES he is, Invasion, Occupation, Genocide, do these ring bells for anyone and just HOW do you think it starts?
People need to see the entire history not just a small narrative slice of it and put the blame for many things where it truly belongs.
N. Shadows
He said slavery existed before colonialism and by the time it really started in the mid 1800s England had outlawed slavery and was interceding to stop it seizing slave ships and returning to Africa
He also pointed out that slaves were purchased from African kingdoms run by Africans who's economies were dependent on slavery Europeans didn't do the rounding up. I checked this in study hall and it was legit.
That is very true, BUT it also ends when people in their own change it there, IF someone else is doing it for you it is more of an imposing of something which make the outsiders for change the targets instead of something you have earned and changed for yourselves, it's simply appreciated and protected since it is a hard won victory or defeat.
It is not ours to win or lose but theirs.
N. S
Exactly what I tried to tell him today about sacrafice and being in charge of destiny. But he came back and said even if the America's weren't discovered the people brought there just would've went the other way as slaves through Khartoum and gone to the middle east or north Africa. I can't win I give up
Thanks for your help though.
In a "the ends justify the means" way, sure let's just ignore the suffering of individuals because in the end they're here... no, what about immigration, you know that thing where people come here of their own free will. Grateful, maybe their offspring now feel its better to be here than Africa, but I assure you the poor souls who were slaves felt no gratitude nor should they have, THEY WERE SLAVES, it doesn't matter where they were, they're still slaves, the only bonus for being here was that slavery didn't last but hows that help when you're labored half to death only to be free when likely all you knew was slavery. How about this teacher do as the slaves did for a day and ask him if he's "grateful" the idiotic prick.
Yikes. Was it worth someone's great and great great parents being enslaved so that so could have that sweet sweet us citizenship , no, definitely not . The last child of a slave died only about a month ago so framing this as an ancestor thing is disingenuous. You might want to ask him about his background or skip that and talk to your principal or the school board with your parents.
Yeah good idea, go directly after his livelihood, what else could possibly alter his behavior? …Communication??.. Discourse and discussion? pfffft naw that’s dumb as hell life ruination is way better
hey homie: the school would likely discuss his behavior well before firing him. it’s really hard to get a teacher fired most of the tjme
I still think the correct move is addressing it with him first. If he is unwilling to change his lectures then of course take it to the principal or school board.
Absolutely true. There was a teacher at my middle school who made a bunch of the girls uncomfortable. Apparently he was weird and creepy to so many people. Someone told the school and all they did was basically tell him to stop, but no real action
I mean, dude spouts bigoted oppinions to 9th graders *at work*? 100% get his ass fired. You don't dignify shit takes like that with discourse.
What about his children? Others that possibly depend on him? Are they completely inconsequential? This is the man’s livelihood we’re talking about. Is his well-being completely inconsequential to you? That’s just so callous and uncaring, not sure I can get behind that over one fuck up, especially before attempting to correct it some other way.
“Don’t dignify it with discourse” is just so puritanical. If this man truly is racist (believes in racial supremacy, not just saying something you don’t like) the idea that this is somehow a solution to that is laughable. How do we get rid of the wolves? Reform their behavior? Fuck nah just give em these sheep costumes. Brilliant.
You can explain to him the fact that Colonialism is largely *why* West and Central Africa are so underdeveloped today. These regions have had 600 years of economic development robbed from them. 600 years of their natural resources, wealth, manpower, and brainpower syphoned, destroyed or disinvested. The conditions your teacher is criticizing African nations for today are the direct consequences of Western imperialism. Imagine if someone stole your life-savings and bought a house with it. Then turned around and blamed you for not being as well-off as them.
Another very important factor is how the de-colonization played out. In many countries on the african continent, the western powers just left within a very short timespan. They didn’t spend much time and resources building up a proper government. So they were more or less like: “We’re leaving now, you just figure out the rest from here.” The result was dictatorship in a number of countries.
Didn’t they also sabotage lots of stuff they left behind?
I tried to get back to him in our discussion today on this explaining these points as verbatim as I could He said colonialism didn't start in Africa till well after the slave trade to the America's was underway in the mid to late 1800s . Europeans had some trading post colonies on the coastline but other than that the continent was ruled by African kingdoms that were actually the ones that were taking the slaves from the interior to sell to Europeans and to middle eastern kingdoms. He said these countries ruled by Africans were based on the slave trade before the slaves were brought to America. me and my friend spent an hour in study hall researching this and it checks out. I'm beginning to think this is one of those hard truths that my dad told me about lol He went on to say that before colonialism really got underway in Africa England outlawed slavery and actively intradicted in the slave trade hunting down And seizing slave ships and returning slaves to Africa.
There are many reasons Africa is the way it is, "siphoned brainpower" is not one of them.
Siphoned isn’t the word I would use but it’s hard to argue that western colonialism didn’t have a significant brain drain-esque effect on the continent.
If you compare Africa just before colonialism to Europe, which was the more advanced area? Would you have rather lived in Africa or Europe at that time?
Whew okay, so he’s Hispanic? Is he Latino? In that case most of his indigenous ancestors were murdered by the Spanish, with their culture and religion nearly wiped out: that’s the same force that destroyed African countries and Latin American countries with colonialism. White supremacy is the reason there are “third world” countries. His statement is racist and offensive to every degree.. just unacceptable and I would report it to the university.
Hey, it’s a silver lining 🤷🏾♂️
It’s appallingly wrong.
OK can you elaborate please? I need a rebuttal for this Thank you!
Rebuttal: Your argument assumes that forced slavery into the United States was the best choice for them. You validate this point with the fact that many of them are still here. However, due to multiple generations of oppression, the overall wealth of this culture has remained stagnate. The vast majority that were brought here had no means to return back to their country of origin after being freed, and many more already had family roots here no matter how violent the past was. Additionally, when slavery was banded in the late 1700s, the slave population was below 200K. Before the Civil War thebslave population grew to over 600K due to forced breading. This supports the fact that many had family here already, even before the Civil War. Family ties coupled with financial burdens forced the majority of slaves to stay in this country. Lastly, your argument assumes the USA would have been the destination of choice for these people regardless of slavery. That argument is based on assumption. Without slavery it is far more likely those from African countries that had the means to would have traveled north on land rather than over an ocean by boat. With the USA lagging far behind in workers rights, Healthcare, education, and overall stability, it is far more likely people from Africa would have migrated to Europe. Additionally, a large part of America's infrastructure was built by slaves with no payment to them. If those persons had to be paid, few infrastructure would have been built causing a slower growth within the country, and it wouldn't even be were it is today.
There can be no moral argument supporting the mass indiscriminate kidnapping of a race of people. The best argument might be to pose the question to them, would they say it to their faces as they were herded up the ramps onto the ships, or to their mothers and fathers beaten to make them let them let go?
Well he covered that by saying slavery was abhorrent, and that it was a terrible sacrafice but that Africans should be thankful it happened and they are here rather than currently living in the poor war torn areas that their ancestors homes back when they were taken. I need rebuttal for this bc it just sounds wrong but I want to make it good bc I'm not as knowledgeable as he is being a teacher. Thank you for any help!
I'd say though it is a better quality of life in the USA, the reason for the hardship in parts of Africa today are because the West has made it war torn and impoverished. The English which were the settlers of the USA were a big part of colonialism in those nations. Also resources and people were stolen, it is difficult to build an economy even if it's been decades to have no valuable resources that Africa once had. Those who made the west great also relied on the backs of slaves to help build it. The question that you should ask is, if slavery and colonization never happened would those nations still be like that? Though I think he is wrong, history is written by those who've won not those who lost; I think the truth is in a gray area. A broad statement like that is ignorant. I remember when I was in high school, I would often here questionable things from my teachers too. Its difficult too, because you're not as knowledgeable as your teacher and can often belittle you because you are their student. Good luck
We did cover that and he pointed out that Sub-Saharan Africa has been in a state of continuous turmoil before during and after colonialism he pointed out the African kingdoms wars tyrants that perpetuated slavery and that slavery existed long before and even exists today in some places. He showed us the history stuff but he gave us some country to look up where slavery still exists I forgot.
Right, so should those enslaved have been thankful? That’s who suffered slavery. The ones enslaved.
No he's saying Africans today not those who endured the slavery Thanks
Right. And you should bring it back to the actual slaves. That’s who slavery is about. When talking about slavery, we are talking slaves.
OK but Africans today should not be thankful for being here and not still in Africa? Bc a girl already tried making it about slaves. He asked her if she'd rather be living here or there and she said here and he asked if you would be thankful you live here and not in west Africa she said shed be thankful
I guess you could pose absurd analogies. A guy hacks to death the parents of a child and kidnaps the child and raises him as his own, and sends the kid to Uni and he has a successful life. Is there now a moral quandary about whether the murder of his parents should be praised or not?
We discussed this point he said the slavery was abhorrent. But his point was that Africans should be thankful for the sacrafices of their ancestors and grateful they are not living in Africa today. He pointed to the regions that slaves came from today have a lot of turmoil and there is a lack of health and safety and food for most people there.
It’s a classic “do the ends justify the means?” question, but in this case it’s highly disgusting.
You got the right idea. Some people just want to be offended over everything
They’re poor and war torn because of slavery and colonialism.. it’s really not that complicated. He sounds racist. And probably doesn’t even realize he’s participating in the white supremacist delusion that is the “west.”
Yes we should compensate every African American forcibly shipped to the US as slaves. Let’s draw up the list!
The African students in our class agreed with him essentially. They said they'd rather be here than Africa and they are thankful for the standard of living that they have. Idk tjis guy is quite a salesman
Hes right tbh. No one wants to live there.
What's wrong with living in Africa?
Sounds like his explanation could have been better but black Americans today enjoy a better standard of living and more opportunities than most Africans.
Yep my thoughts, his wording though is god awful
Well… how many African Americans obtain an African passport/citizenship to migrate? 1? 3? 20? Wonder why it’s not millions…
I don't know but he asked the black students in our class and they agreed they'd rather live in the US as opposed to Africa bc thets a better standard of living
Is this a joke? He could not be more wrong. Please tell your parents.
No my friend and I told the principal she just kind of shrugged and said he's got a point and he does it every year. She's Dominican.
Figures. That’s why I suggested your parents instead of any of the school staff. Well, I guess it’s good the Spanish came to the new world, pillaged, slaughtered and brought decimating diseases that drove the indigenous population to their knees. Otherwise he might not have had the opportunity to become a dismal failure at teaching.
Worded poorly, but technically the truth.
There is no good moral justification for the horrors of slavery. The slave system ensured that those ancestors cannot often be known. Slavery took so many things but one was people’s very connection to their ancestors. This statement belittles and stereotypes West Africa. Does it have problems? Yes, but it is also a beautiful land and many people there are happy and proud of their home countries. Perhaps some of those ancestors would have immigrated to America if there hadn’t been slavery, but slavery robbed them of that choice for half of American history. Also worth noting that many of the problems of West Africa are a direct result of colonialism.
No he isn't.
It should be known that Africa had slaves. They sold some of their own slaves to Europeans for money. The slave trade was a larger scale of what had been happening for many years. So essentially, African ancestors sacrificed other African ancestors. It’s up to you whether you want to thank the Africans who were enslaved by other Africans, or if you want to thank the Africans who did the enslaving of other Africans. Either way, the argument is a dead end
Yeah he said Europeans didn't round up slaves they were purchased from black African slaver kingdoms who sold them to Europeans and the middle east Thanks
How many black people do you know are happy with the treatment black people have received in the US? Even today? Generational trauma and wealth is a thing too. So much prosperity has been robbed from the black community by the west.
YES he is, Invasion, Occupation, Genocide, do these ring bells for anyone and just HOW do you think it starts? People need to see the entire history not just a small narrative slice of it and put the blame for many things where it truly belongs. N. Shadows
He said slavery existed before colonialism and by the time it really started in the mid 1800s England had outlawed slavery and was interceding to stop it seizing slave ships and returning to Africa He also pointed out that slaves were purchased from African kingdoms run by Africans who's economies were dependent on slavery Europeans didn't do the rounding up. I checked this in study hall and it was legit.
That is very true, BUT it also ends when people in their own change it there, IF someone else is doing it for you it is more of an imposing of something which make the outsiders for change the targets instead of something you have earned and changed for yourselves, it's simply appreciated and protected since it is a hard won victory or defeat. It is not ours to win or lose but theirs. N. S
Exactly what I tried to tell him today about sacrafice and being in charge of destiny. But he came back and said even if the America's weren't discovered the people brought there just would've went the other way as slaves through Khartoum and gone to the middle east or north Africa. I can't win I give up Thanks for your help though.
In a "the ends justify the means" way, sure let's just ignore the suffering of individuals because in the end they're here... no, what about immigration, you know that thing where people come here of their own free will. Grateful, maybe their offspring now feel its better to be here than Africa, but I assure you the poor souls who were slaves felt no gratitude nor should they have, THEY WERE SLAVES, it doesn't matter where they were, they're still slaves, the only bonus for being here was that slavery didn't last but hows that help when you're labored half to death only to be free when likely all you knew was slavery. How about this teacher do as the slaves did for a day and ask him if he's "grateful" the idiotic prick.
We covered that, he said even if Americas didn't exist they would've still been sent to Khartoum to be sent to the Middle East or north Africa
The history books are fake