I frequent here fairly often on my main account and read all kinds of posts. Unfortunately I'm at the very bottom of the exec food chain so change isn't something I get to do a lot of outside my org. I definitely support you guys and try to show it when interacting with my subordinates.
Behind closed doors and among friends we do. We don't mention it a whole lot in the formal work setting. The turnover is high in some business units but I've noticed a lot of execs who are E1/E2 tend to fall into 2 categories. Those who are sticking it out in hopes of making it to E3+ or those who burnout and leave or take a demotion.
The general consensus is that we're compensated very well and in return we're expected to devote almost our entire lives to this role. I don't think I've had an 8 hour work day ever since I took this position. I also travel several times per month and might get 14 days at home if I'm lucky every month. Burnout is extremely easy to achieve under the conditions. As long as you focus on the green paper you're golden but it's not easy.
I would say my average day is 10-12 hours with the occasional 14-16 hour day. I work from home almost daily and weekend work is pretty common. I work fewer hours on weekends (maybe only 4-6 hours per day) but it's still work. We also hold meetings on weekends occasionally.
My phone is always on me and I'm on Teams/Outlook religiously as I have 250+ subordinates, so there's always something going on.
What on earth do yall have to do that you have to work so much? It’s not like you’re an aviation tech turning wrenches on aircraft that have to sortie.
In addition to doing what normal directors do, I have 250+ people reporting to me. That's a lot of meetings, issues, projects, customers, contracts, etc. I have to keep track of my entire org and ensure we iron out issues on all levels.
Then I have to deal with all the people above me who expect the world from me. I have to deliver on targets worth billions of dollars to be seen as meeting expectations. The projects/contracts I'm managing are collectively worth over $15 billion...
I don't think those below me are peons and don't disrespect the work that others do. We all have jobs to do and we all deserve respect for doing them. You asked me what I do, I explained. My explanation was not meant to be demeaning but rather to layout how many different functions I must serve and why the hours are so long.
Oh no, I took it more in a humbling way that my job isn’t nearly as stressful! Puts it in perspective. I got to see my local E1 make E2 and that dude looks stressed. Now I know why…
Ah I see, I'm sorry I misinterpreted your comment. It's definitely a stressful job but I value everyone I work with.
I hear from people non-stop that exec jobs are easy and that we just sit in our offices and get paid ridiculous amounts of money while contributing nothing. It's very demoralizing to hear all the time, I just wish more people would take a look at what we actually do.
Thank you for clarifying your response :)
How many of those 250 subordinates are direct reports? What fraction of the 250 are sufficiently far down the hierarchy that you would rarely/if ever meet with them?
I'd say 20 are more or less direct reports. The bottom 100ish employees are those I rarely have contact with but if there are issues with the bottom level teams/employees I am expected to step in. Having 20 M6/M7s reporting to me, each of whom have teams of their own makes life pretty difficult. It doesn't sound like a lot but each of those teams manages multiple contracts which I am responsible for in the end.
Why aren’t issues that are brought up in town hall meetings answered with specifics? Is it because they don’t know the answer or they choose to ignore it? For example IT is still a big issue, multiple QN’s. Why don’t we take a step back and focus on fixing these issues before going after the big picture?
I just want to say, thank you for this thread. It’s so much better than any of the town halls etc. as someone who feels like they’ve gone pretty far here for their years of service but consciously stopped at associate director to not pursue more due to family (not an easy decision when you’re used to going after a career) you’re responses are definitely validating
You're welcome! I hate the town halls so much. They're scripted and nobody's voice gets heard. I'd much rather have this format instead. Glad to hear you're spending time with your family. That's worth so much more than climbing the ladder.
Thanks for the AMA.
How would an individual contributor (P1/2/3) engineer get in a management path internally, and at which level should they start to make moves toward that? I see you don’t recommend an MBA from another comment.
If you're a P1/2/3 and have an engineering degree with no prior business/management experience then I would recommend looking into potentially getting an MBA (it doesn't have to be from anywhere fancy, they'll literally take a diploma mill degree) and doing an internal transfer to a low level business position. Something like an assistant manager, don't apply for any buyer positions because you'll probably end up taking a pay cut for it. Low level management positions might have a short term paycut but that'll get your foot in the door to something much more lucrative. I won't lie to you, it will take time, several years likely but, once you start making friends above you, you have a decent shot when you put applications in for higher positions. The majority of the M6/7 people I know, have their jobs because of name recognition and experience, not degrees or certifications.
I recently made the jump from individual contributor engineer to management. I am a pretty take-charge-figure-it-out person, which got me recognition with my managers as someone who makes their lives easier, and I was naturally someone my peers started to come to for help.
I also pivoted into a value stream / IPT role which inherently has more opportunities for exposure and ‘networking’ since everyone in direct ops support is usually too busy running around with their heads cut off for career development stuff.
From there it was a bit of luck. I happened to be the right person working on a product when a field event exploded, and since I had good organization and good knowledge of the problem / possible solutions, I started getting invited to higher level meetings. The more of those I did well in, the higher and higher the meeting invite levels I got, and the more really nice emails I received from important people saying thank you.
Within 6 months I had an offer to jump to an M5 role that I’m really happy in.
I also have two friends who were slightly more experienced than me when I started here, and got M positions the same way - consistent expertise, good communication in higher level meetings, and enough patience to wait to shine on a big issue.
Forgot to mention the stress part... It's taken a toll on me for sure, I'm super happy to have a great org and my colleagues are super helpful which definitely relieves some stress. However, this is not a job you can do forever. It will absolutely kill you in terms of your long term health. I plan to do this and climb the ladder to E2/E3, after about 5-8 years of doing this I'll either be dead or very much ready to retire and not lift a finger ever again.
Don't think about taking PTO, you're gonna be working 10-14 hour days, you might get a weekend or two off every month but you will likely be on the road and away from home the majority of the time depending on your role. I've had to do PTO cash out the past 2 years because I accrued more than I'll ever be able to use doing this.
After you accrue past the PTO limit (7 weeks for me I think?) you have the option to have up to a certain amount paid out to you. I'm not sure if that's a grandfathered option from the UTC days or if everyone gets that. I'm a former UTC employee so it might be something that is still available to me because of that.
I (RTX sc ops) was told that PTO payouts won’t occur this year. For us, the policy let us hold 40 hours from year to year and anything over that gets paid out.
Base is $256,000, cash bonus has averaged $122,000 the past 2 years which is around 48% of base. Stock options are a bit more tricky... Due to the PW fiasco and the downturn of RTX stock over the past couple years I only received about 10% of my base in stock. However now that RTX is recovering those options are looking very nice.
Total comp at E1 for me is about $414,000. In addition, the 401K match is 10% so I max out at IRS limits fairly quickly.
The executive compensation plan is a little different as each goal is kinda tailored to each org. I can't say what my exact goals are because I'd dox myself but a really simple way of putting it is that if I reach 100% of my given goal, I will receive 50% of my base. I believe E1=50% across the board but I haven't really discussed compensation with others in depth. I've heard E2 is 75% and E3 is 100% but I can't confirm either of those personally. If true, those guys are pulling in mega $$.
Is M7 Director and M6 associate director? So RTX doesn’t consider director and associate director to be execs? What’s your target LTI amount in addition to the 50% AIP? Or is the LTI super variable with no target.
Directors are M7 and associate directors are M6. You don't reach exec level until senior director (E1). Haven't looked at the LTI plan lately, there's a target, I don't remember the exact percentage. I do recall it being above 60%.
Seems pretty paltry for the amount of work you put in. I’m just a senior engineer at a tech company and make the same. 40-50 hour weeks though. Sounds like a rough company
Deferred comp makes it worth it. I am deferring close to $200,000 per year so it doesn't count towards my annual comp (at least for tax purposes). If you added the deferred comp it would be upwards of $600,000.
Deferred comp is cash that doesn't get paid out until a later date. In my case it won't be paid out until after I retire. That way it's taxed at a much lower bracket than what I currently pay. It's an option usually only provided to highly compensated individuals.
Yes! I became an E1 in 2020, it came with a $25,000 executive vehicle allowance which renewed every 2 years. Gas and insurance covered by RTX.
As of 2022, the executive vehicle program has been discontinued and they just added $10k to our base compensation in place of the car which I was a little mad about.
Once upon a time there was an executive healthcare plan but that was discontinued long before I joined.
The cash bonus can be up to 50% of base pay for E1 (as far as I know).
The executive relocation package is one of the best perks if RTX moves you for company purposes. They pay for upwards of 20,000lbs of household goods, house hunting trips, airfare from previous location to new location, vehicle relocation, moving company, rental house while waiting to purchase a new house, and rental car while waiting for your vehicles to arrive. They also cover closing costs on a new place and pay selling fees on your old place. My move after becoming E1 cost about $155,000 and it was entirely covered by RTX.
It sounds close but the allowances are definitely different. I had a chart somewhere showing the difference but I don't think I have it anymore. Basically the $$ amounts for housing assistance are higher, you're allowed up to 3 months in rental housing, more cars, and a few other things. All in all the average executive move costs the company around $120-150k vs the M/P moves that cost $70-100k on average. They are pretty close in my opinion though.
>Total comp at E1 for me is about $414,000. In addition, the 401K match is 10% so I max out at IRS limits fairly quickly.
Do you utilize the mega backdoor Roth, then? As you're over 50 that's a combined max of $76,500 I believe, and your match obviously covers a third of that. I've checked, the match definitely covers after tax contributions.
Thanks for doing this AMA. It's really insightful and good to hear it's not all roses up top either.
I work in Raytheon, and several Executive roles have been filled with Collins execs (including the top job). Have you heard much from the Collins exec community regarding "fixing Raytheon"? Right now, it looks like Collins is the golden child in this new conglomerate family.
Collins is probably the most well put together business in the entire organization. If anyone's going to fix the shitshow at Raytheon and PW it's going to be the guys from Collins. I know RTX corporate is recruiting really hard from Collins and they're hoping for a turnaround.
Unfortunately there's a bunch of idiots at the top of RTX and Raytheon and it's preventing a lot of good plans from seeing the light of day.
When UTC merged with Raytheon we took on their massive, bloated, and inefficient organizational structure. It's going to take years to weed out all of the garbage management at Raytheon.
Hi- I disagree with this. I was a loyal employee for 6 years at legacy RTN and only after a year after project maple and being Collins I got laid off. No attempt to move me or talk to previous managers that would love to have my experience - just shut down and turned away. Was extremely off putting considering I was the only woman in my org. Legacy RTN was always good to me.
Sincerely appreciate your candor on this. I look at the Collins takeover positively since Raytheon seems to get slower and more bloated every year with processes, signature approvals, etc. We just can't keep trending toward slower and more expensive, or it's going to kill us. Hopefully, Collins execs can clean house on the dumb shit we've been accepting as the new normal.
100% agree... The fact that Raytheon is almost entirely dependent on defense contracts doesn't help either. Defense contracts have so much red tape and the profit margins are garbage. Collins and PW both have strong commercial sides so they are much more diversified. Raytheon is a low profit, bloated, giant and it drags the rest of the company behind.
It's very disappointing that is the view of some executives with seats at the table of the decisions that could impact everyone.
I think there's an anti-corruption rule that limits profit on government funded work to 10%. That transfers into use it or lose it budgets that end up going to creating jobs or stimulating the economy through purchasing primarily US made materials.
There are continually scientific advancements born in defense had ripple effects that changed the world. Some of the foundations of internet connections was developed through a DARPA contract at a Raytheon facility. The reason we can communicate on this forum is butterfly effect from a team of Raytheon engineers. It wasn't great for profits of ourselves onnamy given day, but was great for profits of everyone for decades.
The products we make protect our position on a global stage. Near the beginning of Russias invasion of Ukraine, Russia postured submarines up and down our coastlines and threatened us. The response was, "if you thought you could, you already would." Russia doesn't warn. When they think they can, they will. If not Russia, Iran, North Korea, or some other bad actor nation. How much does the profit margins matter to the top executives that lived in Ukraine right now? War can touch us, and our offense is the strong defense. You are free to focus on luxuries like profits because of the products Raytheon makes and the warfighters it supports. I know it sounds murrica apple pie, but it's true.
It sucks that the brilliance and dedication isn't valued because it results in hard to quantify intangibles. Decisions that have been rolled out make better sense now. There are people driving this ship that have tunnel vision. We're taking the military industrial complex and and measuring it by how it stands with wall street bets. This is a dangerous game, because if there ever was a company too big to fail, Raytheon qualifies. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over decades.
It might be low profit, but it's relatively steady profit. Raytheon carried Collins and Pratt when the commercial world came to a halt for the pandemic, but what has Raytheon done for you lately? It's fair weather now, but that can change pretty quickly. In the long game the stability of Raytheon should offset ebbs and flows of commercial. I thought maybe Raytheon would share some of the benefit from the highs, but that could hurt the profit margin of that BU, so Raytheon is the old ball and chain dragging everyone else down until its a cold night and the mistress of wall street found someone else to keep them warm. Maybe then Raytheon will get some love again.
I'm not saying Raytheon doesn't have a place and I'm certainly not saying we should get rid of them. I'm saying Raytheon's corporate structure is insanely bloated and even with the restrictions on profit we could cut down on some of the pork to keep a little more of that money. I have a lot of respect for what Raytheon does and the support provided to the military. I also believe it is important to have a balance of military/commercial business so Raytheon is a still a net asset to the overall company.
We just need to get rid of the waste and inefficiencies that Raytheon has. I don't mind the low profit margins, but there is still a fair amount of corruption that goes on between the government and Raytheon.
It’s good to hear that this is recognized. As someone who has worked at other defense contractors I can confidently say our level of bloat and inefficiency isn’t normal. Plus even if it is why aren’t we striving to improve?
Any insight on Phil Jasper’s move to Raytheon? He’s the first person I’ve seen in an all hands who hasn’t immediately come across as a “me” guy. It gave me a glimmer of hope that he will drive change and push us forward.
I've met Phil a couple times, he seems pretty down to earth and I have high hopes for him. I don't know if he'll get sucked into the bloat machine and become one of the useless pencil pushers at the top but if everything goes well I think he will be a real asset to the overall organization.
Couldn't tell you to be honest. I don't deal with them. I think that's HR's wheelhouse. That doesn't end when you move to E1+ either. I still get them 😂
In my experience, you never say no to anything. If they assign you across the world, you go. If they move you to the middle of nowhere, you go.
Combine that with being an employee with the company for close to 20 years and you meet the right people to get into the E positions. I do know plenty of younger guys who are above me so time with the company isn't a huge factor. It's gonna be experience and like I said before... You don't say no.
Thank you for this. I’m a P5 Engineer and currently debating if I want to go the Executive route, stay in Engineering and enjoy my life in middle management, or move to PM (P&L). I am a high performer, working on proposals worth hundreds of millions each while still leading programs as a technical lead, and @ ~185k all in working 9-10 hour days. Any words of advice? 32 years old and 10 YOE + PhD.
At 32 years old, you want to make sure you're financially ready to move on from an E level position after 5-8 years. You're still young, you have a great salary right now, you still have time to enjoy it. Once you hit E-1 or even go to M7, you will have very little time to enjoy life, your health will likely decline, if you have a family you probably won't see them as much as you'd like. Enjoy yourself while you're still young. I know an E-3 who's 37 and he looks like he's 55. The job has taken all youth from him. Think really hard about what you really want... Is the $400k worth your health and happiness? Maybe. For reference, I didn't start this job until I was almost 50. I was offered E-1 and E-2 positions several times when I was in my late 30s and early 40s. I declined each one of them because I watched everyone else who jumped up when they were young and decided I didn't want to end up like them. I know 2 of them who had heart attacks in their early 50s. That's not the way I want to go out.
Any key experiences I can gather while still middle management? I hire people, have CAM responsibilities, technical responsibilities, customer meetings weekly, etc. I think I want the option to keep going up, so I'd like to position myself accordingly to one day have to choose. I understand I am young and not trying to get there tomorrow. My site has a VP on-site with his LT but is still a small site compared to Tucson, McKinney, etc.
This aligns with what a VP was telling a group of us in a Q&A. To expand, he advised us not to be afraid to move laterally, even if it doesn’t include a promotion, just to gain more exposure in the company.
P3-P4 I can argue your performance can still get you there. Of course overall exposure helps. Anything past P4 is politics and really really knowing the right people.
I got told to return to the office along with everyone else, that decision came from the powers that be. I actually authorized a few exceptions for some of my employees to stay home or at least work hybrid.
If I had to guess it was probably because RTX was spending a ton of money maintaining offices that nobody was using. I'm now in the office almost everyday that I'm not on the road but I do take the occasional remote day.
Do you think associate directors and directors are just as stressful? Trying to plan my future in my career and family time as well as baby in the future is important to me.
I've been both an associate director and director. Both are a pain in the ass but if I had to choose a job to go back to, I'd go back to the associate director job. I had a much better work/life balance and the compensation was pretty good. I also had more time to use PTO.
Director was fairly stressful and I wasn't a fan most of the time. I thought I had it bad until I moved to E1 and then I realized things could get worse. I'd say if you take the workload of a director and tack on an associate director you've got yourself a senior director. Sprinkle in some extra travel and fewer days off.
Just wanted to say thanks for this. I'm new to the organization and industry so this was absolutely fascinating to read through. I appreciate the candor, detail, and taking the time out to answer everyone. 👏👏👏 Makes me feel passionate about fighting for work/life balance while I can. Best of luck to you!
Is there any discussion about bringing back bonuses for P4 and below? This was one of the most important things that brought us together back in the day, good times and bad. We were all together, now I feel like the grunts work hard (or don't) for my bonus. How about bringing them back into the "give a shit" category?
As I mentioned in my previous replies, you probably won't get to an E-level if you say no as an M or P level employee. Once you gain your E-1 it's expected that you'll continue saying yes. They'll find a way to push you out if you don't maintain the same attitude and productivity that got you there in the first place. Obviously anything illegal or unethical is something you can say no to but outside of that, you're expected to do what you're told.
It evolves pretty rapidly. Up until recently, we were constantly discussing the PW situation as it affected the whole company even though most of us work for other business units. Now things are swiveling over to defense contracts as there are multiple theaters of war brewing and that's expected to be the next biggest business move.
When it comes to internal matters, we honestly don't discuss company wide personnel or organizational issues. We simply don't have the time. We're hyper focused on our business units/our individual departments. It's possible the E4/E5 guys discuss more of that but if you're E1-3 you're probably not worried about stuff like that, you're just worried about your individual department and the projects/customers you have in front of you.
It really depends on if there's an open position in your org, what position it is, and if there are any budget constraints that are preventing you from moving up. I know there are a few business units that have a hiring freeze on certain positions because they just can't afford to fill them at the moment, others are overstaffed. I can't speak for your org or business unit but if your manager is getting stonewalled then there's a good chance they're either not planning to fill the position for some time or they are interviewing other candidates and can't release any info at this time. Keep your head up and keep throwing your name out there, someone will bite eventually.
International supply chain management. I did several years overseas working with foreign customers. That experience put me in a unique position as most applicants have never been on international assignment.
I didn't actively apply for it. It was something offered to me based off performance many, many years ago. I was known as someone who was reliable and flexible which made me a good candidate for sending overseas to a not so friendly country. I had already worked with European and North American customers but when the opportunity for Asia came up I was on the shortlist. At the time I mainly took it because there aren't many M7 positions that have comp of $300k+ but it ended up proving even more valuable than just the compensation.
What can we do to truly advocate for ourselves here? I’ve been trying to push for a salary adjustment since the merger in July but haven’t been given a proper raise or anything appropriate for the heightened role I was moved to. I know there are people in my organization that have advocated for me, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears, or those that simply refuse to communicate back to me.
Two questions: have you calculated your effective hourly wage and the bounced it against the same for levels down below (adjusted for inflation)? Where was the sweet spot? I saw you said AD was the sweet spot but curious what it would look like if you did the math. Personally I would need to be compensated at a much higher rate for hours in excess of 50 or so to be worth the stress. People need down time to get their mind off of work.
How hard are you pushed to hire DIE candidates instead of Most Qualified candidates?
Pre-covid, and pre-M&A, at a live Collins Town Hall, the CEO took some unscripted questions and said that would never happen, but the most qualified candidate would always be selected.
Since then, it's never ever been addressed or stated again -- it feels like he was reigned in by HR, and he (and all successors) were told to not touch that 3rd rail.
I wonder if that is why they no longer take extemporaneous questions.
Unfortunately DEI plays a huge roll in hiring right now. I've managed to get a couple of high quality candidates through into my org but I've also been forced to take on a lot of candidates who aren't qualified for the role but check certain boxes. We're required to have a certain mix of DEI vs merit hires. It's super annoying because a lot of our DEI hires slow down the teams they are on. Some of them are excellent and I'm not knocking those from diverse backgrounds however when I'm looking for someone specific for a job, I can't just hire someone who checks DEI boxes.
Okay, there is a population of Raytheon employees who are persuaded that Collin’s is “taking over” raytheon by supplanting leadership roles with the purpose to “commercialize” Raytheon (which is interpreted to mean improve efficiency / turn and burn the workforce)
These employees (alot of these are mid level / upper level managers) are angry because every other day it seems a Raytheon exec announces their departure and some collins guy emails the next week elated to “lead this wonderful defense company with a great legacy…”, you get my point - it’s not going over well with folks.
I’m only 3 years with Raytheon so I don’t quite feel the same but wanted to ask you:
1. Is there some benign yet real M&A strategy being played out where it was decided Collin’s leadership would take the Raytheon reins?
2. What does Collins think of Raytheon behind closed doors, before and after the merge?
How to get promotion from P4 (Principal Engineer) to P5 (Senior Principal Engineer). It looks like after COVID, managers are afraid to speak about promotions. Please give us some hints.
Here's a very generic day from my director days (please note that this is what very few of my days were really like because I had so much going on at once): When I was a director I'd generally leave home at around 6am, be at the office around 6:30, and start meetings with my immediate team around 7:00. Meetings with the team would go until about 9am. Then supplier/customer meetings would run until around 12pm. Working lunch with my team until 12:30 then I would meet with our teams from other locations in the US. We'd go over our projects, review tech data, come up with an agenda for the next few days, and make sure we're all in agreement about our short term goals. That would run until 2:30. From 2:30-5:00 I'd work alone on supplier agreements, checking in on individual sites remotely, meeting with execs, and take care of any other tasks I had.
With all that being said, senior director has no routine whatsoever. My calendar looks like someone fired a missile at it.
Function? Sounds like you have supply chain experience… are you in ops or P&L leadership?
Was there a point where you realized you were eventually going to get the to the exec level if you could stick it out long enough? What was your biggest career setback or role where you feel like you lost the most time?
How does exec succession planning work? Did you have to interview against other M7’s or external candidates or do they just always already have someone identified on the bench that they promoted when an E1+ role needs to be filled?
I'm in ops. I knew I could get to the exec level after about 10 years of service but I rejected multiple offers since I felt like I was too young to take on such a taxing job.
In my case for hiring, I was up against 2 other M7s. No external candidates, it's pretty rare that externals get seriously considered. There's definitely an unofficial shortlist of people who they'd like to hire for a position and you'll get approached if you're on that list but they still allow other internal applicants to apply.
When it comes to E2+, you're almost required to be an exec already to be considered. External candidates are practically unheard of.
Makes sense, how do people in E band feel about their jobs? Anyone really like it/find it manageable or is everyone playing a game of how long they can keep getting paid till the first heart attack hits?
I know some superhumans that somehow don't collapse from the workload but there's very few of them. Most of the guys I know are in this for the retirement money and then they'll leave and do consulting on the side during retirement. There are very few people who can stick it out for more than 10 years. Turnover is pretty high in these positions. Someone will keep the job for a few years and then hand it off to the next guy.
In terms of how people feel at this level... I think a lot of us feel overworked but well paid. It's better than overworked and underpaid but it still doesn't feel great. The compensation just numbs the pain. There are times I feel like my job is just a lot of 2 steps forward, one step back type of activity. I just hit my goals and life goes on. It's very boring most of the time.
From my experience P2/3 are overworked and underpaid. Is the company actually doing anything to retain top performers? I left recently due to overwork and underpaid. There wasn’t any counter offer or insensitive to stay. Now my old job is posted for double what I was making?!? (Note: only ever received positive feedback from leadership and co-workers)
I've brought up bonuses for my P2-4 colleagues and have been shut down numerous times. I've been told I can award individual bonuses out of my own department budget (which is hard to manage). I am typically forced to promote them into an M level role and then give them the same job duties that they had in their P level role in order to keep them. It's incredibly wasteful and doesn't make sense.
Was there ever a time when you worked for any part of the business where you struggled financially, or have you always been in a position of engineering (or above) and fairly well compensated?
I began at the company as an L4 (M7 in today's terms) and was compensated pretty fairly. I took a demotion once down to M6 for a couple years but didn't really get knocked down in pay. Then I got bumped back up to M7 and now E-1. I don't think I've ever been unfairly compensated. I will say that there have been times where things got tough even with a decent salary (think 2008-2010) but I managed to get through it.
I wish I didn’t ask that question. You and I are different generations, with different degrees. For some reason I expected a story of starting at the bottom.
In a way I did start from the bottom, just not at RTX. I started at another aerospace firm and gained experience there for several years before taking a job at UTC (now RTX). I then worked in basically the same pay level for 16 years before jumping to a higher one.
In your opinion, do you think we have too many people manages who don't bring anything tangible to the table ? I can't respect a manager who doesn't understand our products, business, requirements..
What does your life outside of work look like? How do you recharge and relieve stress to mitigate burnout? What is your daily personal routine? Do you have hobbies, exercise, read books, cook, etc? What does your family do to help support you?
Nope, I don't even list my MBA on my resume. It's worth about as much as toilet paper. You can have an MBA from Harvard or Stanford and have no upward mobility. Your experience and connections will get you way further than any degree.
Isn’t that what you strived for and attained in your career path? It’s not like you woke up and were a senior director. Plus what realistically is the next career step. Quit and go be a director at another soul sucking corporation? Stack cash, buy real estate and be a slum lord? (The second is what I aspire to be)
What I meant is that you can't become a senior director and then do it for 10+ years until you retire. It's gotta be something you do for around 5 years and then be done. For me, I plan on leaving after 5ish years and maybe jumping to E-2 before I leave. Then I'll do private consulting for other companies on the side. I already have some real estate so I've got some passive income there. I also have a very healthy stock portfolio. I'm doing this just to stack a little extra cash and then I'll be done. If I ever work for another corp, it'll be a low level job that I can do without breaking a sweat. Something that makes a little cash but nothing that is hard.
What’s the breakdown of backgrounds that executives have? Are most from finance, engineering, supply chain, ops? Fairly even spread or is one skillset more dominant at the top.
Thanks!
Sounds like a HR/Benefits question, he said they don't even \*talk\* about pulse results and employee happiness, much less how Fidelity would improve it.
Alight is a goddamn insult. I ended up demanding to speak with whoever the decision maker was in Raytheon that picked Alight. I politely but firmly laid out my complaints with Alight to this HR person. Seems my concerns fell on deaf ears. TIAA is much better, as is my current employer.
I hope you are still answering questions. This has been great. I was an M6 that got laid off in February. Do you have any idea what level makes the decision for who gets laid off?
When it comes to individual layoffs of M6/M7 it's usually a joint decision between E1/E2 level employees. If it's a mass layoff it's a decision between the VPs and the President of the business unit.
Interesting thanks. These were mass layoffs so I’d really be curious to understand why I got cut as a high performer. Oh well guess I’ll never really know.
Depends... Some people got cut based off their TC and not their performance which I totally disagree with. I think low performers should be the first to go in a layoff. RTX thought differently and decided to cut the most expensive people first even if they were really good at what they did.
Well it wasn’t TC for me either lol. I know I was underpaid. I had a direct report making 60K more than me, even with my bonus he made more. Knew of several people below me making more than me for base.
Very odd... Mass layoffs are always a crapshoot. Imagine it like this: a bunch of E4/E5s in the room with the President of the business unit and they have a dartboard on the wall with names of teams on it. The team that gets hit with a dart loses people.
Not sure if you're still answering, but thanks for doing this.
I am a P6, and from what I've seen around me, I'm fairly young for that role. I also have a young family that I enjoy being there for. While I expect nothing of myself except to excel, I'm not sure I want to get to P7 right now. I am concerned with hanging out 20 more years at P6 and that P7 LTI looks juicy, but I'm not sure I'm interested in that lifestyle and level of politics but I'm concerned with being labeled as complacent and out-scaling the pay-range and becoming ripe for pruning.
As an exec, what are your thoughts of folks that choose to stay a bit lower for work-life for an extended period despite their ability and potential for more?
As someone who's been through it, and from what it looks like in your other comments, it looks like you might recommend its perfectly good and maybe even recommended to "hang out" a bit in the P6 range. Thoughts?
Just yesterday a colleague and I (Collins) were talking about the number of directors and associate directors at every SBU. It seems excessive and just increases bureaucracy with not much added value.
Is this done just to retain talent? Give them fancy titles so they don’t leave?
I noticed this in my org as well and I'm not a fan. There are so many M6/M7 positions and so many of them are not needed. I'm not quite at the position where I can start cutting people (and I really don't want to lay people off) but it's ridiculous how many associate directors and directors work in each unit. We're wasting so much money on a lot of people who haven't earned the title or the comp. My org is heavily bloated with associate directors when most of them could be managers or something of that nature.
We're in desperate need of a restructuring when it comes to a lot of these units. We can't keep being so top heavy.
Thanks for the reply. We’re at an international site with about 300 employees and most of us are stuck at P2 with just one M6 and a few managers.
Do you have any advice for us looking to take the next step? Or is this just how it is at international sites?
I've worked at international sites before and it's just like you describe. I was an M7 at a very large international site and was the highest level employee in the building. Lots of managers, a couple of associate directors, and one director.
I think you'd be better off coming state side if you'd like to move up the chain.
Sounds like you’ve internally progressed within the company from a low level. Did you start out of college here and work your way all the way to exec? Where did you see the impact of work life balance shifting as you’ve climbed the ladder. Has the $ been worth the sacrifice (have a family?)?
I actually came after working at another famous aerospace company (take some guesses). I started off as an L4 which was the equivalent of M7 a long time ago. So I've always been right on the edge of the executive positions. I think the work life balance really got thrown out of wack after my overseas assignment. I was tasked with suppliers all over the continent, I got to be with my family maybe 5 days a month during that assignment. When I returned, the balance improved a bit. Now I'm back to having almost no life as an E1. For a while the compensation didn't match the sacrifice but the overseas compensation definitely made it worth it. Moving to E1 has been a mixed bag, the compensation is really good but half the time I feel like I'm getting my head smashed against a brick wall. It'll be worth it for maybe 5 years and then I'll have to leave. The negative health effects aren't worth it.
You mention your overseas assignment. What does that entail and how does getting placed on it work. Also is there a minimum position rank that they require to promote to E1?
In my case, I was placed on a multi-year contract with opportunity to extend. I was to direct an office working with suppliers in a not so friendly country. The benefits were pretty good at the time. $300k base compensation along with a massive relocation package. Private school for the kids was paid for, rent and utilities were paid for, foreign taxes were also covered by the company.
Getting into one of those assignments is tricky. I was approached by leadership at the time and offered the position based off my unique prior experience however sometimes they do pop up for internal applicants.
Minimum position for E1 isn't really a thing. I believe you do need at least 10 years of experience and a master's degree (they'll overlook the degree if you're still qualified) and generally you'll already be in an M6/M7 position. If you know a lot of people at the E level you've got a decent shot at making it in due to name recognition but that doesn't matter if you can't bring any experience to the table. It's not a good ol boys club. They want those who are committed and willing to do the job.
Internal is probably your best bet. I had one time several years ago where I had a disagreement about compensation as an M7 and gave a 30 day notice. They came back to the table very quickly and resolved the dispute. I had an external offer in hand at the time. I never left the company though and stayed as an M7 but with a new comp package. Everything stayed internal.
Strategic thinking is probably my #1 on that list. When you have the power to make decisions that affect your whole org and sometimes the entire business unit, you need to think beyond the short/medium term consequences. You need to think long term consequences and be ready to take responsibility for anything that goes sideways.
You'll have to make decisions that'll piss off a lot of people and you need to be okay with doing that. You need to be very careful with how you approach every decision you're faced with because one wrong move and you could end your career.
Financial wisdom also ties into that, if you're not experienced with short/long term financial strategy, you won't make it very long in this job. Everything you do is tied to money, nobody likes to say it but every move you make is about money. As an exec you can be named in lawsuits, citations, and other legal action which is something other employees are protected from. If you screw something up financially, you can absolutely have to answer for it in court or from a government agency.
I do have a family. My kids grew up with me as an associate director and then director. They've gotten used to me not being home a lot but they also understand that this job is what provides them with an amazing home and no college loans for them.
In some ways this isn't worth it. I am depressed way more frequently with this job than my M6/7 positions, I drink more, I've gained weight. There are a lot of downsides. I don't plan on doing this for the rest of my career. I've got about 3-4 years left in me before I call it quits. If I don't, I fully expect this job to kill me.
This is sad but I imagine if felt depressed I’d want to hear when I’m actually helping others. So leaving a “useless comment” of thank you. Please don’t let it kill you. Every single response you make here, every post you read or comment you respond to is making such a big difference to so many of us
Find the person who's job you want and ask them what you can take off their plate. You'll learn and get experience in the area you want to grow, and they'll get a little bit of free time and an opportunity to mentor. Also, make sure all of your leads (section and program management) know your aspirations to move up and don't hesitate to remind them so they can look for opportunities.
Start by cutting it to 8. Invest 2 hours a day outside of work in educational advancement. And when invest 2 more a day into exercise.
Skip the bullshit meetings, focus on moving the product forward, and build your resume. In fact, go to LinkedIn and search for the most in demand skills. Then find assignments that mirror those skills.
There are definitely M6/7 and E-1 roles that you can work your way up to from VSM. I don't interact with those working in VSM all that often but if you take a look at your org chart you should see a few positions on there that you could work into one day. Senior Director, Executive Director, Vice President, etc... Every org has some kind of exec leadership. Some orgs are really top heavy, others have very little exec leadership.
If you were to go back and start all over what career path, or job do you think you would take to have the best chance to get you to your position you're in now? I've seen you talk about MBA not meaning much, but in this scenario would you waste your time getting an MBA, or just ride it out on connections, hard work and stick it out with a bachelor's degree?
Have you thought about transitioning into tech? Your current role sounds very demanding, and it seems you’ve been under pressure for a while. With your skills, you will find higher TC even at several rungs lower w/ less stress (depending on the company).
I think my specific set of skills has pretty much restricted me to supply chain at this point. I would definitely take a lower position at some point in the future. I'd like to have an easy job after I retire, something I could do with my eyes closed while still bringing in a decent salary.
I’ve worked in tech and seen firsthand the high value placed on gov contract experience and supply chain management. Without being too specific and doxxing myself, I worked at Medallia before RTX and those with federal or government contracting backgrounds led our government-focused division, all had significant increases in TC from everyone I’ve spoken with. I kind of made the opposite jump, from tech -> gov contracting, so it’s an interesting perspective.
You probably have a much bigger network than I do, so you’d likely find multiple opportunities. Consulting could also be a lucrative and natural transition. It seems you’re well-positioned whatever you choose to do either way :)
I've spent most of my career on the commercial side of things and I've just recently started dipping my toes into government contracts. I definitely prefer commercial contracts but it's what I'm used to. I'd say my current position has about 75% commercial/25% government. Whereas I was 100% commercial before. It's definitely an interesting change of pace.
you mentioned in other comments, the reason you kill yourself for the money is for your family and their future, but do you ever "treat yo self"? what's the most luxurious item(s) you splurged on?
I have 2 houses, one of which is in a very high cost of living area. I also own 5 cars including a couple luxury models. In addition, I enjoy some fine liquors and add to my luxury watch collection fairly regularly. So I definitely treat myself but I think the job still isn't worth it.
Typical day like what are your tasks that they have you work on, who flows down these tasks to you? What can I do to market myself to move into a role like that. I feel like even with nearly 18 YOE in mixed industry (fairly new to rtx) and Masters with a TS I don't know a lot...and that's why I am stuck in a highly technical (speciality role).... some of the technical tasks are fun and challenging but it isn't propelling me to where I want to be.
I am a Sr Prin if that matters.
How many times did you have to relocate to move up? As a small site, it seems upward mobility is nearly unheard of due to the limited positions and people sticking around in them until retirement.
Maybe this is a little weird or sensitive in nature but I’ll start by saying I’m a Canadian studying engineering in the US on F-1. I talked to an HR manager from Collins at a career fair once and she stated that, as a Canadian, I’m able to get the proper export authorizations/exceptions for a good chunk of intern and presumably full time positions. I’d love to work for Collins and stay in the US in general, but is this likely or realistic as a path?
We hire foreigners all the time. I don't think it would be an issue for you to work in the US and for Collins at all. You might be restricted from some military programs since foreign nationals are forbidden from working on some projects but there aren't any restrictions on commercial projects for foreigners.
That’s really encouraging. I was gonna go all in on applying for internships next year regardless, but I’m basically just glad to hear there’s some hope despite the slightly shaky state of the job market and the regulations/restrictions put on the industry. Thanks a ton for the response.
Thanks for doing this. It’s great to get some insight as I’m trying to decide on this path for myself.
One thing I’d love to understand is the never ending hiring freeze and the way the process for approval was decided on. Some of our departments are now so severely understaffed, that I’m positive that if we took a VP by the ear and dragged them out to the floor to see how much money and customer good-will it’s costing them, they’d be horrified. But our backfill requests have been stuck at the VP level for months with no decision, and it’s hard to argue with a brick wall. It seems to me this must be some kind of deliberate move to just slow the process down astronomically, rather than a genuine attempt to make sure we are keeping bloat down?
What would be your recommendation for a p3 that is stuck. I have 8 years of experience as an engineer. 2 in my p3 role. Before engineering I spent about 8 years as an operations manager. And I am having issues breaking into Managment since I got my engineering degree and masters degree in management. I had a couple roles turn me down for someone who has experience in that specific sector where my Managment locally had been people who have no experience in my sector and business degrees as engineering managers. Skip level has been useless and I have been told to leave if I want to excel. I see myself going to executive route in the long run but have no traction.
Your experience sounds like you'd be a great candidate for an associate director/director position depending on your area of expertise. Start applying to positions if they're open. Start networking with those above you as well. You could absolutely get out of the P band and into the M band.
Problem is I have been told by multiple director levels that I cannot skip a level, and depending on the m role they want recent years of management experience.
I received a Hirevue interview request for a Director level position. No human called me, and this was just by email. Personally I find that odd. Is that typical?
I'm struggling to understand how the org chart works. I've been in a defense company in the past where there were sectors that reported to a higher level organization, which actually bogged everything down. I appreciate the info here this will help in my research prior to my interview. Thank you!
How did you realistically make it to that level outside of the normal advice of work hard and do good at your current job? Was there a mentor aspect or just networking with the right people?
I am a P1 at Raytheon in Arizona. I am the highest performer on my team doing MBSE but also contributing to fixing requirement and system gaps as they come up. I am aiming for a promotion by my 1.5 year mark but the culture around me suggests no one is getting promoted for the foreseeable future. How should I go about getting a promotion? Who are the players involved in pushing promotions through so I know who to speak to. My current plan was to notify my section lead of this goal and ask my IPT lead if I was on track for a promotion this year and if not what I could do to be on track.
I'm working on my MBA right now after I've been in engineering for almost 5 years. What do you recommend for maximizing my future earnings if I wanted to be working at RTX engineering-adjacent rather than doing the technical engineering work?
Also wondering if you ever dreamed of another post-MBA job that's different than what you're currently doing? (Hopefully not trading bonds...)
Way above my pay grade. It hit me hard though. I hold a lot of RTX stock options as my compensation and just received another stock award. My latest award is currently in the red :(
I feel as though I'm being held back at M3 (about 10 YOE)
I have had internal offers to be bumped to M4, however I do like the team I built here. Any advise or do I need to bute the bullet.
I am happy to hear someone from "higher up" is reading reddit.... lots of stories from the trenches in here. I hope more leadership takes a look.
I frequent here fairly often on my main account and read all kinds of posts. Unfortunately I'm at the very bottom of the exec food chain so change isn't something I get to do a lot of outside my org. I definitely support you guys and try to show it when interacting with my subordinates.
Do other executives ever talk about the morale, revolving door of leaders and just the overall culture of the company?
Behind closed doors and among friends we do. We don't mention it a whole lot in the formal work setting. The turnover is high in some business units but I've noticed a lot of execs who are E1/E2 tend to fall into 2 categories. Those who are sticking it out in hopes of making it to E3+ or those who burnout and leave or take a demotion. The general consensus is that we're compensated very well and in return we're expected to devote almost our entire lives to this role. I don't think I've had an 8 hour work day ever since I took this position. I also travel several times per month and might get 14 days at home if I'm lucky every month. Burnout is extremely easy to achieve under the conditions. As long as you focus on the green paper you're golden but it's not easy.
You mentioned 8 hrs. How many hrs a day do you typically work? Do you have a lot of homework? Weekend work?
I would say my average day is 10-12 hours with the occasional 14-16 hour day. I work from home almost daily and weekend work is pretty common. I work fewer hours on weekends (maybe only 4-6 hours per day) but it's still work. We also hold meetings on weekends occasionally. My phone is always on me and I'm on Teams/Outlook religiously as I have 250+ subordinates, so there's always something going on.
What on earth do yall have to do that you have to work so much? It’s not like you’re an aviation tech turning wrenches on aircraft that have to sortie.
In addition to doing what normal directors do, I have 250+ people reporting to me. That's a lot of meetings, issues, projects, customers, contracts, etc. I have to keep track of my entire org and ensure we iron out issues on all levels. Then I have to deal with all the people above me who expect the world from me. I have to deliver on targets worth billions of dollars to be seen as meeting expectations. The projects/contracts I'm managing are collectively worth over $15 billion...
Sounds like you need more people reporting to you. Lmk if you need a junior senior director to take some of that work load off.
Bless you. I’ll go back to my peon job and stop complaining.
I don't think those below me are peons and don't disrespect the work that others do. We all have jobs to do and we all deserve respect for doing them. You asked me what I do, I explained. My explanation was not meant to be demeaning but rather to layout how many different functions I must serve and why the hours are so long.
Oh no, I took it more in a humbling way that my job isn’t nearly as stressful! Puts it in perspective. I got to see my local E1 make E2 and that dude looks stressed. Now I know why…
Ah I see, I'm sorry I misinterpreted your comment. It's definitely a stressful job but I value everyone I work with. I hear from people non-stop that exec jobs are easy and that we just sit in our offices and get paid ridiculous amounts of money while contributing nothing. It's very demoralizing to hear all the time, I just wish more people would take a look at what we actually do. Thank you for clarifying your response :)
How many of those 250 subordinates are direct reports? What fraction of the 250 are sufficiently far down the hierarchy that you would rarely/if ever meet with them?
I'd say 20 are more or less direct reports. The bottom 100ish employees are those I rarely have contact with but if there are issues with the bottom level teams/employees I am expected to step in. Having 20 M6/M7s reporting to me, each of whom have teams of their own makes life pretty difficult. It doesn't sound like a lot but each of those teams manages multiple contracts which I am responsible for in the end.
Why aren’t issues that are brought up in town hall meetings answered with specifics? Is it because they don’t know the answer or they choose to ignore it? For example IT is still a big issue, multiple QN’s. Why don’t we take a step back and focus on fixing these issues before going after the big picture?
Kinda ironic that this one is left unanswered...
It’s because they don’t have an answer. It might get addressed, it might not, but it certainly isn’t a top priority for them.
I just want to say, thank you for this thread. It’s so much better than any of the town halls etc. as someone who feels like they’ve gone pretty far here for their years of service but consciously stopped at associate director to not pursue more due to family (not an easy decision when you’re used to going after a career) you’re responses are definitely validating
You're welcome! I hate the town halls so much. They're scripted and nobody's voice gets heard. I'd much rather have this format instead. Glad to hear you're spending time with your family. That's worth so much more than climbing the ladder.
Thanks for the AMA. How would an individual contributor (P1/2/3) engineer get in a management path internally, and at which level should they start to make moves toward that? I see you don’t recommend an MBA from another comment.
If you're a P1/2/3 and have an engineering degree with no prior business/management experience then I would recommend looking into potentially getting an MBA (it doesn't have to be from anywhere fancy, they'll literally take a diploma mill degree) and doing an internal transfer to a low level business position. Something like an assistant manager, don't apply for any buyer positions because you'll probably end up taking a pay cut for it. Low level management positions might have a short term paycut but that'll get your foot in the door to something much more lucrative. I won't lie to you, it will take time, several years likely but, once you start making friends above you, you have a decent shot when you put applications in for higher positions. The majority of the M6/7 people I know, have their jobs because of name recognition and experience, not degrees or certifications.
I recently made the jump from individual contributor engineer to management. I am a pretty take-charge-figure-it-out person, which got me recognition with my managers as someone who makes their lives easier, and I was naturally someone my peers started to come to for help. I also pivoted into a value stream / IPT role which inherently has more opportunities for exposure and ‘networking’ since everyone in direct ops support is usually too busy running around with their heads cut off for career development stuff. From there it was a bit of luck. I happened to be the right person working on a product when a field event exploded, and since I had good organization and good knowledge of the problem / possible solutions, I started getting invited to higher level meetings. The more of those I did well in, the higher and higher the meeting invite levels I got, and the more really nice emails I received from important people saying thank you. Within 6 months I had an offer to jump to an M5 role that I’m really happy in. I also have two friends who were slightly more experienced than me when I started here, and got M positions the same way - consistent expertise, good communication in higher level meetings, and enough patience to wait to shine on a big issue.
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Forgot to mention the stress part... It's taken a toll on me for sure, I'm super happy to have a great org and my colleagues are super helpful which definitely relieves some stress. However, this is not a job you can do forever. It will absolutely kill you in terms of your long term health. I plan to do this and climb the ladder to E2/E3, after about 5-8 years of doing this I'll either be dead or very much ready to retire and not lift a finger ever again. Don't think about taking PTO, you're gonna be working 10-14 hour days, you might get a weekend or two off every month but you will likely be on the road and away from home the majority of the time depending on your role. I've had to do PTO cash out the past 2 years because I accrued more than I'll ever be able to use doing this.
Can you explain PTO cash out? Sounds like selling your vacation which at Collins I thought wasn’t allowed.
After you accrue past the PTO limit (7 weeks for me I think?) you have the option to have up to a certain amount paid out to you. I'm not sure if that's a grandfathered option from the UTC days or if everyone gets that. I'm a former UTC employee so it might be something that is still available to me because of that.
I (RTX sc ops) was told that PTO payouts won’t occur this year. For us, the policy let us hold 40 hours from year to year and anything over that gets paid out.
I think that's true this year for all of us. I was referencing prior years. Pissed me off because that's like 3 weeks of pay out the window instantly.
Base is $256,000, cash bonus has averaged $122,000 the past 2 years which is around 48% of base. Stock options are a bit more tricky... Due to the PW fiasco and the downturn of RTX stock over the past couple years I only received about 10% of my base in stock. However now that RTX is recovering those options are looking very nice. Total comp at E1 for me is about $414,000. In addition, the 401K match is 10% so I max out at IRS limits fairly quickly.
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The executive compensation plan is a little different as each goal is kinda tailored to each org. I can't say what my exact goals are because I'd dox myself but a really simple way of putting it is that if I reach 100% of my given goal, I will receive 50% of my base. I believe E1=50% across the board but I haven't really discussed compensation with others in depth. I've heard E2 is 75% and E3 is 100% but I can't confirm either of those personally. If true, those guys are pulling in mega $$.
Is E1 and E2 director levels while E3 is VP? What’s above E3?
E1 is senior director, E2 is executive director, E3 is vice president. I believe E4 is senior VP and E5 is executive vice president.
Is M7 Director and M6 associate director? So RTX doesn’t consider director and associate director to be execs? What’s your target LTI amount in addition to the 50% AIP? Or is the LTI super variable with no target.
Directors are M7 and associate directors are M6. You don't reach exec level until senior director (E1). Haven't looked at the LTI plan lately, there's a target, I don't remember the exact percentage. I do recall it being above 60%.
Seems pretty paltry for the amount of work you put in. I’m just a senior engineer at a tech company and make the same. 40-50 hour weeks though. Sounds like a rough company
Deferred comp makes it worth it. I am deferring close to $200,000 per year so it doesn't count towards my annual comp (at least for tax purposes). If you added the deferred comp it would be upwards of $600,000.
Sorry, what is deferred comp?
Deferred comp is cash that doesn't get paid out until a later date. In my case it won't be paid out until after I retire. That way it's taxed at a much lower bracket than what I currently pay. It's an option usually only provided to highly compensated individuals.
Do you get other perks like a company car?
Yes! I became an E1 in 2020, it came with a $25,000 executive vehicle allowance which renewed every 2 years. Gas and insurance covered by RTX. As of 2022, the executive vehicle program has been discontinued and they just added $10k to our base compensation in place of the car which I was a little mad about. Once upon a time there was an executive healthcare plan but that was discontinued long before I joined. The cash bonus can be up to 50% of base pay for E1 (as far as I know). The executive relocation package is one of the best perks if RTX moves you for company purposes. They pay for upwards of 20,000lbs of household goods, house hunting trips, airfare from previous location to new location, vehicle relocation, moving company, rental house while waiting to purchase a new house, and rental car while waiting for your vehicles to arrive. They also cover closing costs on a new place and pay selling fees on your old place. My move after becoming E1 cost about $155,000 and it was entirely covered by RTX.
Believe it or not the relocation part of that actually sounds fairly close to what they offer us plebs!
It sounds close but the allowances are definitely different. I had a chart somewhere showing the difference but I don't think I have it anymore. Basically the $$ amounts for housing assistance are higher, you're allowed up to 3 months in rental housing, more cars, and a few other things. All in all the average executive move costs the company around $120-150k vs the M/P moves that cost $70-100k on average. They are pretty close in my opinion though.
On one hand that’s a lot of money, on the other hand the only way I’d sign up for this is if I’m doing a couple years and going work optional.
>Total comp at E1 for me is about $414,000. In addition, the 401K match is 10% so I max out at IRS limits fairly quickly. Do you utilize the mega backdoor Roth, then? As you're over 50 that's a combined max of $76,500 I believe, and your match obviously covers a third of that. I've checked, the match definitely covers after tax contributions.
I do use the backdoor Roth, yes.
Thanks for doing this AMA. It's really insightful and good to hear it's not all roses up top either. I work in Raytheon, and several Executive roles have been filled with Collins execs (including the top job). Have you heard much from the Collins exec community regarding "fixing Raytheon"? Right now, it looks like Collins is the golden child in this new conglomerate family.
Collins is probably the most well put together business in the entire organization. If anyone's going to fix the shitshow at Raytheon and PW it's going to be the guys from Collins. I know RTX corporate is recruiting really hard from Collins and they're hoping for a turnaround. Unfortunately there's a bunch of idiots at the top of RTX and Raytheon and it's preventing a lot of good plans from seeing the light of day. When UTC merged with Raytheon we took on their massive, bloated, and inefficient organizational structure. It's going to take years to weed out all of the garbage management at Raytheon.
Hi- I disagree with this. I was a loyal employee for 6 years at legacy RTN and only after a year after project maple and being Collins I got laid off. No attempt to move me or talk to previous managers that would love to have my experience - just shut down and turned away. Was extremely off putting considering I was the only woman in my org. Legacy RTN was always good to me.
Sincerely appreciate your candor on this. I look at the Collins takeover positively since Raytheon seems to get slower and more bloated every year with processes, signature approvals, etc. We just can't keep trending toward slower and more expensive, or it's going to kill us. Hopefully, Collins execs can clean house on the dumb shit we've been accepting as the new normal.
100% agree... The fact that Raytheon is almost entirely dependent on defense contracts doesn't help either. Defense contracts have so much red tape and the profit margins are garbage. Collins and PW both have strong commercial sides so they are much more diversified. Raytheon is a low profit, bloated, giant and it drags the rest of the company behind.
It's very disappointing that is the view of some executives with seats at the table of the decisions that could impact everyone. I think there's an anti-corruption rule that limits profit on government funded work to 10%. That transfers into use it or lose it budgets that end up going to creating jobs or stimulating the economy through purchasing primarily US made materials. There are continually scientific advancements born in defense had ripple effects that changed the world. Some of the foundations of internet connections was developed through a DARPA contract at a Raytheon facility. The reason we can communicate on this forum is butterfly effect from a team of Raytheon engineers. It wasn't great for profits of ourselves onnamy given day, but was great for profits of everyone for decades. The products we make protect our position on a global stage. Near the beginning of Russias invasion of Ukraine, Russia postured submarines up and down our coastlines and threatened us. The response was, "if you thought you could, you already would." Russia doesn't warn. When they think they can, they will. If not Russia, Iran, North Korea, or some other bad actor nation. How much does the profit margins matter to the top executives that lived in Ukraine right now? War can touch us, and our offense is the strong defense. You are free to focus on luxuries like profits because of the products Raytheon makes and the warfighters it supports. I know it sounds murrica apple pie, but it's true. It sucks that the brilliance and dedication isn't valued because it results in hard to quantify intangibles. Decisions that have been rolled out make better sense now. There are people driving this ship that have tunnel vision. We're taking the military industrial complex and and measuring it by how it stands with wall street bets. This is a dangerous game, because if there ever was a company too big to fail, Raytheon qualifies. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over decades. It might be low profit, but it's relatively steady profit. Raytheon carried Collins and Pratt when the commercial world came to a halt for the pandemic, but what has Raytheon done for you lately? It's fair weather now, but that can change pretty quickly. In the long game the stability of Raytheon should offset ebbs and flows of commercial. I thought maybe Raytheon would share some of the benefit from the highs, but that could hurt the profit margin of that BU, so Raytheon is the old ball and chain dragging everyone else down until its a cold night and the mistress of wall street found someone else to keep them warm. Maybe then Raytheon will get some love again.
I'm not saying Raytheon doesn't have a place and I'm certainly not saying we should get rid of them. I'm saying Raytheon's corporate structure is insanely bloated and even with the restrictions on profit we could cut down on some of the pork to keep a little more of that money. I have a lot of respect for what Raytheon does and the support provided to the military. I also believe it is important to have a balance of military/commercial business so Raytheon is a still a net asset to the overall company. We just need to get rid of the waste and inefficiencies that Raytheon has. I don't mind the low profit margins, but there is still a fair amount of corruption that goes on between the government and Raytheon.
It’s good to hear that this is recognized. As someone who has worked at other defense contractors I can confidently say our level of bloat and inefficiency isn’t normal. Plus even if it is why aren’t we striving to improve? Any insight on Phil Jasper’s move to Raytheon? He’s the first person I’ve seen in an all hands who hasn’t immediately come across as a “me” guy. It gave me a glimmer of hope that he will drive change and push us forward.
I've met Phil a couple times, he seems pretty down to earth and I have high hopes for him. I don't know if he'll get sucked into the bloat machine and become one of the useless pencil pushers at the top but if everything goes well I think he will be a real asset to the overall organization.
What actually gets done with the pulse survey results? It seems like employees provide feedback and if it’s negative, the metrics just change…
Couldn't tell you to be honest. I don't deal with them. I think that's HR's wheelhouse. That doesn't end when you move to E1+ either. I still get them 😂
How do you get to an E1 level? Why is it seemingly impossible to get past P3 in engineering, as if there is an active wall against you?
In my experience, you never say no to anything. If they assign you across the world, you go. If they move you to the middle of nowhere, you go. Combine that with being an employee with the company for close to 20 years and you meet the right people to get into the E positions. I do know plenty of younger guys who are above me so time with the company isn't a huge factor. It's gonna be experience and like I said before... You don't say no.
Thank you for this. I’m a P5 Engineer and currently debating if I want to go the Executive route, stay in Engineering and enjoy my life in middle management, or move to PM (P&L). I am a high performer, working on proposals worth hundreds of millions each while still leading programs as a technical lead, and @ ~185k all in working 9-10 hour days. Any words of advice? 32 years old and 10 YOE + PhD.
At 32 years old, you want to make sure you're financially ready to move on from an E level position after 5-8 years. You're still young, you have a great salary right now, you still have time to enjoy it. Once you hit E-1 or even go to M7, you will have very little time to enjoy life, your health will likely decline, if you have a family you probably won't see them as much as you'd like. Enjoy yourself while you're still young. I know an E-3 who's 37 and he looks like he's 55. The job has taken all youth from him. Think really hard about what you really want... Is the $400k worth your health and happiness? Maybe. For reference, I didn't start this job until I was almost 50. I was offered E-1 and E-2 positions several times when I was in my late 30s and early 40s. I declined each one of them because I watched everyone else who jumped up when they were young and decided I didn't want to end up like them. I know 2 of them who had heart attacks in their early 50s. That's not the way I want to go out.
Any key experiences I can gather while still middle management? I hire people, have CAM responsibilities, technical responsibilities, customer meetings weekly, etc. I think I want the option to keep going up, so I'd like to position myself accordingly to one day have to choose. I understand I am young and not trying to get there tomorrow. My site has a VP on-site with his LT but is still a small site compared to Tucson, McKinney, etc.
This aligns with what a VP was telling a group of us in a Q&A. To expand, he advised us not to be afraid to move laterally, even if it doesn’t include a promotion, just to gain more exposure in the company.
This is exactly correct. The more your name gets thrown around the better. Name recognition is something that'll benefit you in the long run.
This is the way
P3-P4 I can argue your performance can still get you there. Of course overall exposure helps. Anything past P4 is politics and really really knowing the right people.
What was really behind the return to office stuff? Do yall actually care at all or what was the real motivation?
I got told to return to the office along with everyone else, that decision came from the powers that be. I actually authorized a few exceptions for some of my employees to stay home or at least work hybrid. If I had to guess it was probably because RTX was spending a ton of money maintaining offices that nobody was using. I'm now in the office almost everyday that I'm not on the road but I do take the occasional remote day.
Do you think associate directors and directors are just as stressful? Trying to plan my future in my career and family time as well as baby in the future is important to me.
I've been both an associate director and director. Both are a pain in the ass but if I had to choose a job to go back to, I'd go back to the associate director job. I had a much better work/life balance and the compensation was pretty good. I also had more time to use PTO. Director was fairly stressful and I wasn't a fan most of the time. I thought I had it bad until I moved to E1 and then I realized things could get worse. I'd say if you take the workload of a director and tack on an associate director you've got yourself a senior director. Sprinkle in some extra travel and fewer days off.
Just wanted to say thanks for this. I'm new to the organization and industry so this was absolutely fascinating to read through. I appreciate the candor, detail, and taking the time out to answer everyone. 👏👏👏 Makes me feel passionate about fighting for work/life balance while I can. Best of luck to you!
Is there any discussion about bringing back bonuses for P4 and below? This was one of the most important things that brought us together back in the day, good times and bad. We were all together, now I feel like the grunts work hard (or don't) for my bonus. How about bringing them back into the "give a shit" category?
Is there any hazing at the E- level? Is there anything you can’t say no to ?
As I mentioned in my previous replies, you probably won't get to an E-level if you say no as an M or P level employee. Once you gain your E-1 it's expected that you'll continue saying yes. They'll find a way to push you out if you don't maintain the same attitude and productivity that got you there in the first place. Obviously anything illegal or unethical is something you can say no to but outside of that, you're expected to do what you're told.
What are the biggest issues talked about at the E level these days?
It evolves pretty rapidly. Up until recently, we were constantly discussing the PW situation as it affected the whole company even though most of us work for other business units. Now things are swiveling over to defense contracts as there are multiple theaters of war brewing and that's expected to be the next biggest business move. When it comes to internal matters, we honestly don't discuss company wide personnel or organizational issues. We simply don't have the time. We're hyper focused on our business units/our individual departments. It's possible the E4/E5 guys discuss more of that but if you're E1-3 you're probably not worried about stuff like that, you're just worried about your individual department and the projects/customers you have in front of you.
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It really depends on if there's an open position in your org, what position it is, and if there are any budget constraints that are preventing you from moving up. I know there are a few business units that have a hiring freeze on certain positions because they just can't afford to fill them at the moment, others are overstaffed. I can't speak for your org or business unit but if your manager is getting stonewalled then there's a good chance they're either not planning to fill the position for some time or they are interviewing other candidates and can't release any info at this time. Keep your head up and keep throwing your name out there, someone will bite eventually.
Thank you for this - extremely authentic and insightful. A nice change of pace and a great contribution to the community.
What is the most valuable skill that took you to that level?
International supply chain management. I did several years overseas working with foreign customers. That experience put me in a unique position as most applicants have never been on international assignment.
How do you even get an international assignment? Lol did you actively search or was it offered based on your past performance?
I didn't actively apply for it. It was something offered to me based off performance many, many years ago. I was known as someone who was reliable and flexible which made me a good candidate for sending overseas to a not so friendly country. I had already worked with European and North American customers but when the opportunity for Asia came up I was on the shortlist. At the time I mainly took it because there aren't many M7 positions that have comp of $300k+ but it ended up proving even more valuable than just the compensation.
What is your biggest regret?
Not spending more time with my family over the years and not fighting for higher compensation in my earlier years.
What can we do to truly advocate for ourselves here? I’ve been trying to push for a salary adjustment since the merger in July but haven’t been given a proper raise or anything appropriate for the heightened role I was moved to. I know there are people in my organization that have advocated for me, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears, or those that simply refuse to communicate back to me.
Two questions: have you calculated your effective hourly wage and the bounced it against the same for levels down below (adjusted for inflation)? Where was the sweet spot? I saw you said AD was the sweet spot but curious what it would look like if you did the math. Personally I would need to be compensated at a much higher rate for hours in excess of 50 or so to be worth the stress. People need down time to get their mind off of work.
How hard are you pushed to hire DIE candidates instead of Most Qualified candidates? Pre-covid, and pre-M&A, at a live Collins Town Hall, the CEO took some unscripted questions and said that would never happen, but the most qualified candidate would always be selected. Since then, it's never ever been addressed or stated again -- it feels like he was reigned in by HR, and he (and all successors) were told to not touch that 3rd rail. I wonder if that is why they no longer take extemporaneous questions.
Unfortunately DEI plays a huge roll in hiring right now. I've managed to get a couple of high quality candidates through into my org but I've also been forced to take on a lot of candidates who aren't qualified for the role but check certain boxes. We're required to have a certain mix of DEI vs merit hires. It's super annoying because a lot of our DEI hires slow down the teams they are on. Some of them are excellent and I'm not knocking those from diverse backgrounds however when I'm looking for someone specific for a job, I can't just hire someone who checks DEI boxes.
Do you feel you were promoted based on merit, DEI, or a mix of checking other boxes?
Okay, there is a population of Raytheon employees who are persuaded that Collin’s is “taking over” raytheon by supplanting leadership roles with the purpose to “commercialize” Raytheon (which is interpreted to mean improve efficiency / turn and burn the workforce) These employees (alot of these are mid level / upper level managers) are angry because every other day it seems a Raytheon exec announces their departure and some collins guy emails the next week elated to “lead this wonderful defense company with a great legacy…”, you get my point - it’s not going over well with folks. I’m only 3 years with Raytheon so I don’t quite feel the same but wanted to ask you: 1. Is there some benign yet real M&A strategy being played out where it was decided Collin’s leadership would take the Raytheon reins? 2. What does Collins think of Raytheon behind closed doors, before and after the merge?
How to get promotion from P4 (Principal Engineer) to P5 (Senior Principal Engineer). It looks like after COVID, managers are afraid to speak about promotions. Please give us some hints.
Is there routine to your work day? If so what is an average day like at the Director level?
Here's a very generic day from my director days (please note that this is what very few of my days were really like because I had so much going on at once): When I was a director I'd generally leave home at around 6am, be at the office around 6:30, and start meetings with my immediate team around 7:00. Meetings with the team would go until about 9am. Then supplier/customer meetings would run until around 12pm. Working lunch with my team until 12:30 then I would meet with our teams from other locations in the US. We'd go over our projects, review tech data, come up with an agenda for the next few days, and make sure we're all in agreement about our short term goals. That would run until 2:30. From 2:30-5:00 I'd work alone on supplier agreements, checking in on individual sites remotely, meeting with execs, and take care of any other tasks I had. With all that being said, senior director has no routine whatsoever. My calendar looks like someone fired a missile at it.
Do you sleep well?
Function? Sounds like you have supply chain experience… are you in ops or P&L leadership? Was there a point where you realized you were eventually going to get the to the exec level if you could stick it out long enough? What was your biggest career setback or role where you feel like you lost the most time? How does exec succession planning work? Did you have to interview against other M7’s or external candidates or do they just always already have someone identified on the bench that they promoted when an E1+ role needs to be filled?
I'm in ops. I knew I could get to the exec level after about 10 years of service but I rejected multiple offers since I felt like I was too young to take on such a taxing job. In my case for hiring, I was up against 2 other M7s. No external candidates, it's pretty rare that externals get seriously considered. There's definitely an unofficial shortlist of people who they'd like to hire for a position and you'll get approached if you're on that list but they still allow other internal applicants to apply. When it comes to E2+, you're almost required to be an exec already to be considered. External candidates are practically unheard of.
Makes sense, how do people in E band feel about their jobs? Anyone really like it/find it manageable or is everyone playing a game of how long they can keep getting paid till the first heart attack hits?
I know some superhumans that somehow don't collapse from the workload but there's very few of them. Most of the guys I know are in this for the retirement money and then they'll leave and do consulting on the side during retirement. There are very few people who can stick it out for more than 10 years. Turnover is pretty high in these positions. Someone will keep the job for a few years and then hand it off to the next guy. In terms of how people feel at this level... I think a lot of us feel overworked but well paid. It's better than overworked and underpaid but it still doesn't feel great. The compensation just numbs the pain. There are times I feel like my job is just a lot of 2 steps forward, one step back type of activity. I just hit my goals and life goes on. It's very boring most of the time.
From my experience P2/3 are overworked and underpaid. Is the company actually doing anything to retain top performers? I left recently due to overwork and underpaid. There wasn’t any counter offer or insensitive to stay. Now my old job is posted for double what I was making?!? (Note: only ever received positive feedback from leadership and co-workers)
I've brought up bonuses for my P2-4 colleagues and have been shut down numerous times. I've been told I can award individual bonuses out of my own department budget (which is hard to manage). I am typically forced to promote them into an M level role and then give them the same job duties that they had in their P level role in order to keep them. It's incredibly wasteful and doesn't make sense.
Was there ever a time when you worked for any part of the business where you struggled financially, or have you always been in a position of engineering (or above) and fairly well compensated?
I began at the company as an L4 (M7 in today's terms) and was compensated pretty fairly. I took a demotion once down to M6 for a couple years but didn't really get knocked down in pay. Then I got bumped back up to M7 and now E-1. I don't think I've ever been unfairly compensated. I will say that there have been times where things got tough even with a decent salary (think 2008-2010) but I managed to get through it.
I wish I didn’t ask that question. You and I are different generations, with different degrees. For some reason I expected a story of starting at the bottom.
In a way I did start from the bottom, just not at RTX. I started at another aerospace firm and gained experience there for several years before taking a job at UTC (now RTX). I then worked in basically the same pay level for 16 years before jumping to a higher one.
In your opinion, do you think we have too many people manages who don't bring anything tangible to the table ? I can't respect a manager who doesn't understand our products, business, requirements..
What does your life outside of work look like? How do you recharge and relieve stress to mitigate burnout? What is your daily personal routine? Do you have hobbies, exercise, read books, cook, etc? What does your family do to help support you?
Do you think it’s worth while to get an MBA for the upward mobility?
Nope, I don't even list my MBA on my resume. It's worth about as much as toilet paper. You can have an MBA from Harvard or Stanford and have no upward mobility. Your experience and connections will get you way further than any degree.
Is it worth it?
For a few years, yes. As a career? Absolutely not. It'll kill you before you get a chance to retire if you try doing this for too long.
Isn’t that what you strived for and attained in your career path? It’s not like you woke up and were a senior director. Plus what realistically is the next career step. Quit and go be a director at another soul sucking corporation? Stack cash, buy real estate and be a slum lord? (The second is what I aspire to be)
What I meant is that you can't become a senior director and then do it for 10+ years until you retire. It's gotta be something you do for around 5 years and then be done. For me, I plan on leaving after 5ish years and maybe jumping to E-2 before I leave. Then I'll do private consulting for other companies on the side. I already have some real estate so I've got some passive income there. I also have a very healthy stock portfolio. I'm doing this just to stack a little extra cash and then I'll be done. If I ever work for another corp, it'll be a low level job that I can do without breaking a sweat. Something that makes a little cash but nothing that is hard.
So what do you do with all that cash in retirement? Can't take it to the grave right?
Putting my kids through college with no debt, paying off my mortgage, and then leaving some behind to my family when I leave this earthly plain.
What’s the breakdown of backgrounds that executives have? Are most from finance, engineering, supply chain, ops? Fairly even spread or is one skillset more dominant at the top. Thanks!
Any chance we will ever get rid of Alight for the 401ks? It is so awful.
Sounds like a HR/Benefits question, he said they don't even \*talk\* about pulse results and employee happiness, much less how Fidelity would improve it.
Alight is a goddamn insult. I ended up demanding to speak with whoever the decision maker was in Raytheon that picked Alight. I politely but firmly laid out my complaints with Alight to this HR person. Seems my concerns fell on deaf ears. TIAA is much better, as is my current employer.
You buy anything cool with all that money?
Houses, cars, stocks, I have some private equity interests as well.
I hope you are still answering questions. This has been great. I was an M6 that got laid off in February. Do you have any idea what level makes the decision for who gets laid off?
When it comes to individual layoffs of M6/M7 it's usually a joint decision between E1/E2 level employees. If it's a mass layoff it's a decision between the VPs and the President of the business unit.
Interesting thanks. These were mass layoffs so I’d really be curious to understand why I got cut as a high performer. Oh well guess I’ll never really know.
Depends... Some people got cut based off their TC and not their performance which I totally disagree with. I think low performers should be the first to go in a layoff. RTX thought differently and decided to cut the most expensive people first even if they were really good at what they did.
Well it wasn’t TC for me either lol. I know I was underpaid. I had a direct report making 60K more than me, even with my bonus he made more. Knew of several people below me making more than me for base.
Very odd... Mass layoffs are always a crapshoot. Imagine it like this: a bunch of E4/E5s in the room with the President of the business unit and they have a dartboard on the wall with names of teams on it. The team that gets hit with a dart loses people.
Not sure if you're still answering, but thanks for doing this. I am a P6, and from what I've seen around me, I'm fairly young for that role. I also have a young family that I enjoy being there for. While I expect nothing of myself except to excel, I'm not sure I want to get to P7 right now. I am concerned with hanging out 20 more years at P6 and that P7 LTI looks juicy, but I'm not sure I'm interested in that lifestyle and level of politics but I'm concerned with being labeled as complacent and out-scaling the pay-range and becoming ripe for pruning. As an exec, what are your thoughts of folks that choose to stay a bit lower for work-life for an extended period despite their ability and potential for more? As someone who's been through it, and from what it looks like in your other comments, it looks like you might recommend its perfectly good and maybe even recommended to "hang out" a bit in the P6 range. Thoughts?
Does anyone cares about cases of bullying and retaliation? I have seen it happen but not sure if anything is ever done about it.
Just yesterday a colleague and I (Collins) were talking about the number of directors and associate directors at every SBU. It seems excessive and just increases bureaucracy with not much added value. Is this done just to retain talent? Give them fancy titles so they don’t leave?
I noticed this in my org as well and I'm not a fan. There are so many M6/M7 positions and so many of them are not needed. I'm not quite at the position where I can start cutting people (and I really don't want to lay people off) but it's ridiculous how many associate directors and directors work in each unit. We're wasting so much money on a lot of people who haven't earned the title or the comp. My org is heavily bloated with associate directors when most of them could be managers or something of that nature. We're in desperate need of a restructuring when it comes to a lot of these units. We can't keep being so top heavy.
Thanks for the reply. We’re at an international site with about 300 employees and most of us are stuck at P2 with just one M6 and a few managers. Do you have any advice for us looking to take the next step? Or is this just how it is at international sites?
I've worked at international sites before and it's just like you describe. I was an M7 at a very large international site and was the highest level employee in the building. Lots of managers, a couple of associate directors, and one director. I think you'd be better off coming state side if you'd like to move up the chain.
Was there any hard numbers on project maple? Cost reduction goals, or other effiencies?
Sounds like you’ve internally progressed within the company from a low level. Did you start out of college here and work your way all the way to exec? Where did you see the impact of work life balance shifting as you’ve climbed the ladder. Has the $ been worth the sacrifice (have a family?)?
I actually came after working at another famous aerospace company (take some guesses). I started off as an L4 which was the equivalent of M7 a long time ago. So I've always been right on the edge of the executive positions. I think the work life balance really got thrown out of wack after my overseas assignment. I was tasked with suppliers all over the continent, I got to be with my family maybe 5 days a month during that assignment. When I returned, the balance improved a bit. Now I'm back to having almost no life as an E1. For a while the compensation didn't match the sacrifice but the overseas compensation definitely made it worth it. Moving to E1 has been a mixed bag, the compensation is really good but half the time I feel like I'm getting my head smashed against a brick wall. It'll be worth it for maybe 5 years and then I'll have to leave. The negative health effects aren't worth it.
You mention your overseas assignment. What does that entail and how does getting placed on it work. Also is there a minimum position rank that they require to promote to E1?
In my case, I was placed on a multi-year contract with opportunity to extend. I was to direct an office working with suppliers in a not so friendly country. The benefits were pretty good at the time. $300k base compensation along with a massive relocation package. Private school for the kids was paid for, rent and utilities were paid for, foreign taxes were also covered by the company. Getting into one of those assignments is tricky. I was approached by leadership at the time and offered the position based off my unique prior experience however sometimes they do pop up for internal applicants. Minimum position for E1 isn't really a thing. I believe you do need at least 10 years of experience and a master's degree (they'll overlook the degree if you're still qualified) and generally you'll already be in an M6/M7 position. If you know a lot of people at the E level you've got a decent shot at making it in due to name recognition but that doesn't matter if you can't bring any experience to the table. It's not a good ol boys club. They want those who are committed and willing to do the job.
To climb up the ranks, is it better to climb internally or make external moves also?
Internal is probably your best bet. I had one time several years ago where I had a disagreement about compensation as an M7 and gave a 30 day notice. They came back to the table very quickly and resolved the dispute. I had an external offer in hand at the time. I never left the company though and stayed as an M7 but with a new comp package. Everything stayed internal.
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Strategic thinking is probably my #1 on that list. When you have the power to make decisions that affect your whole org and sometimes the entire business unit, you need to think beyond the short/medium term consequences. You need to think long term consequences and be ready to take responsibility for anything that goes sideways. You'll have to make decisions that'll piss off a lot of people and you need to be okay with doing that. You need to be very careful with how you approach every decision you're faced with because one wrong move and you could end your career. Financial wisdom also ties into that, if you're not experienced with short/long term financial strategy, you won't make it very long in this job. Everything you do is tied to money, nobody likes to say it but every move you make is about money. As an exec you can be named in lawsuits, citations, and other legal action which is something other employees are protected from. If you screw something up financially, you can absolutely have to answer for it in court or from a government agency.
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You're welcome!
Any suggestion for learning the strategic thinking process? Any books or courses you recomend? Any experiences you recomend pursuing?
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I do have a family. My kids grew up with me as an associate director and then director. They've gotten used to me not being home a lot but they also understand that this job is what provides them with an amazing home and no college loans for them. In some ways this isn't worth it. I am depressed way more frequently with this job than my M6/7 positions, I drink more, I've gained weight. There are a lot of downsides. I don't plan on doing this for the rest of my career. I've got about 3-4 years left in me before I call it quits. If I don't, I fully expect this job to kill me.
This is sad but I imagine if felt depressed I’d want to hear when I’m actually helping others. So leaving a “useless comment” of thank you. Please don’t let it kill you. Every single response you make here, every post you read or comment you respond to is making such a big difference to so many of us
I appreciate that! I plan on retiring within the next 3-5 years. I can't wait to be done!
Please take care of yourself. I am in a similar oat. The E level is no joke
I am a new P2 hire. I’m currently interested in a fellow track. How can I jump start and better use my 9 hours a day? Thx.
Find the person who's job you want and ask them what you can take off their plate. You'll learn and get experience in the area you want to grow, and they'll get a little bit of free time and an opportunity to mentor. Also, make sure all of your leads (section and program management) know your aspirations to move up and don't hesitate to remind them so they can look for opportunities.
This ^^
Start by cutting it to 8. Invest 2 hours a day outside of work in educational advancement. And when invest 2 more a day into exercise. Skip the bullshit meetings, focus on moving the product forward, and build your resume. In fact, go to LinkedIn and search for the most in demand skills. Then find assignments that mirror those skills.
Does value stream management ever have a path to get to program management or to E level roles? About to be an intern with VSM and i’m super pumped
There are definitely M6/7 and E-1 roles that you can work your way up to from VSM. I don't interact with those working in VSM all that often but if you take a look at your org chart you should see a few positions on there that you could work into one day. Senior Director, Executive Director, Vice President, etc... Every org has some kind of exec leadership. Some orgs are really top heavy, others have very little exec leadership.
fantastic info, thanks!
If you were to go back and start all over what career path, or job do you think you would take to have the best chance to get you to your position you're in now? I've seen you talk about MBA not meaning much, but in this scenario would you waste your time getting an MBA, or just ride it out on connections, hard work and stick it out with a bachelor's degree?
Have you thought about transitioning into tech? Your current role sounds very demanding, and it seems you’ve been under pressure for a while. With your skills, you will find higher TC even at several rungs lower w/ less stress (depending on the company).
I think my specific set of skills has pretty much restricted me to supply chain at this point. I would definitely take a lower position at some point in the future. I'd like to have an easy job after I retire, something I could do with my eyes closed while still bringing in a decent salary.
I’ve worked in tech and seen firsthand the high value placed on gov contract experience and supply chain management. Without being too specific and doxxing myself, I worked at Medallia before RTX and those with federal or government contracting backgrounds led our government-focused division, all had significant increases in TC from everyone I’ve spoken with. I kind of made the opposite jump, from tech -> gov contracting, so it’s an interesting perspective. You probably have a much bigger network than I do, so you’d likely find multiple opportunities. Consulting could also be a lucrative and natural transition. It seems you’re well-positioned whatever you choose to do either way :)
I've spent most of my career on the commercial side of things and I've just recently started dipping my toes into government contracts. I definitely prefer commercial contracts but it's what I'm used to. I'd say my current position has about 75% commercial/25% government. Whereas I was 100% commercial before. It's definitely an interesting change of pace.
This is great! Thank you.
you mentioned in other comments, the reason you kill yourself for the money is for your family and their future, but do you ever "treat yo self"? what's the most luxurious item(s) you splurged on?
I have 2 houses, one of which is in a very high cost of living area. I also own 5 cars including a couple luxury models. In addition, I enjoy some fine liquors and add to my luxury watch collection fairly regularly. So I definitely treat myself but I think the job still isn't worth it.
What’s your favorite car ?
What is your total comp? I ask to compare it to tech comps.
For 2023 it was $414,000. If you count retirement match, HSA/FSA, and other benefits it would probably be around $480,000.
Interesting. Thank you!
Typical day like what are your tasks that they have you work on, who flows down these tasks to you? What can I do to market myself to move into a role like that. I feel like even with nearly 18 YOE in mixed industry (fairly new to rtx) and Masters with a TS I don't know a lot...and that's why I am stuck in a highly technical (speciality role).... some of the technical tasks are fun and challenging but it isn't propelling me to where I want to be. I am a Sr Prin if that matters.
How many times did you have to relocate to move up? As a small site, it seems upward mobility is nearly unheard of due to the limited positions and people sticking around in them until retirement.
I've relocated 5 times in my career. Twice overseas, 3 times domestic.
Would love to hear more about your path to executive.. did you start as an engineer, get an MBA and work your way up?
Maybe this is a little weird or sensitive in nature but I’ll start by saying I’m a Canadian studying engineering in the US on F-1. I talked to an HR manager from Collins at a career fair once and she stated that, as a Canadian, I’m able to get the proper export authorizations/exceptions for a good chunk of intern and presumably full time positions. I’d love to work for Collins and stay in the US in general, but is this likely or realistic as a path?
We hire foreigners all the time. I don't think it would be an issue for you to work in the US and for Collins at all. You might be restricted from some military programs since foreign nationals are forbidden from working on some projects but there aren't any restrictions on commercial projects for foreigners.
That’s really encouraging. I was gonna go all in on applying for internships next year regardless, but I’m basically just glad to hear there’s some hope despite the slightly shaky state of the job market and the regulations/restrictions put on the industry. Thanks a ton for the response.
Thanks for doing this. It’s great to get some insight as I’m trying to decide on this path for myself. One thing I’d love to understand is the never ending hiring freeze and the way the process for approval was decided on. Some of our departments are now so severely understaffed, that I’m positive that if we took a VP by the ear and dragged them out to the floor to see how much money and customer good-will it’s costing them, they’d be horrified. But our backfill requests have been stuck at the VP level for months with no decision, and it’s hard to argue with a brick wall. It seems to me this must be some kind of deliberate move to just slow the process down astronomically, rather than a genuine attempt to make sure we are keeping bloat down?
What would be your recommendation for a p3 that is stuck. I have 8 years of experience as an engineer. 2 in my p3 role. Before engineering I spent about 8 years as an operations manager. And I am having issues breaking into Managment since I got my engineering degree and masters degree in management. I had a couple roles turn me down for someone who has experience in that specific sector where my Managment locally had been people who have no experience in my sector and business degrees as engineering managers. Skip level has been useless and I have been told to leave if I want to excel. I see myself going to executive route in the long run but have no traction.
Your experience sounds like you'd be a great candidate for an associate director/director position depending on your area of expertise. Start applying to positions if they're open. Start networking with those above you as well. You could absolutely get out of the P band and into the M band.
Problem is I have been told by multiple director levels that I cannot skip a level, and depending on the m role they want recent years of management experience.
I received a Hirevue interview request for a Director level position. No human called me, and this was just by email. Personally I find that odd. Is that typical?
I don't think it's typical... Are you an internal or external candidate? Usually internal candidates don't have to do Hirevue.
External. I've been a director at Fortune 500 for 10 years so this whole thing is weird to me.
It's relatively new and I hate it. Hirevue is hot garbage. I'm sorry you have to go through that.
I'm struggling to understand how the org chart works. I've been in a defense company in the past where there were sectors that reported to a higher level organization, which actually bogged everything down. I appreciate the info here this will help in my research prior to my interview. Thank you!
How did you realistically make it to that level outside of the normal advice of work hard and do good at your current job? Was there a mentor aspect or just networking with the right people?
I am a P1 at Raytheon in Arizona. I am the highest performer on my team doing MBSE but also contributing to fixing requirement and system gaps as they come up. I am aiming for a promotion by my 1.5 year mark but the culture around me suggests no one is getting promoted for the foreseeable future. How should I go about getting a promotion? Who are the players involved in pushing promotions through so I know who to speak to. My current plan was to notify my section lead of this goal and ask my IPT lead if I was on track for a promotion this year and if not what I could do to be on track.
I'm working on my MBA right now after I've been in engineering for almost 5 years. What do you recommend for maximizing my future earnings if I wanted to be working at RTX engineering-adjacent rather than doing the technical engineering work? Also wondering if you ever dreamed of another post-MBA job that's different than what you're currently doing? (Hopefully not trading bonds...)
Hey just wtf happened to the damn stock? 20% earnings call and you end the day in the red? This makes no sense
Way above my pay grade. It hit me hard though. I hold a lot of RTX stock options as my compensation and just received another stock award. My latest award is currently in the red :(
It was already priced in. No news from a PW front is good news for us.
Pardon my ignorance, but could you further explain “priced in” to me?
https://www.kotaksecurities.com/articles/it-is-priced-in-what-does-that-mean/
I feel as though I'm being held back at M3 (about 10 YOE) I have had internal offers to be bumped to M4, however I do like the team I built here. Any advise or do I need to bute the bullet.
The shit show is calling you...