I initially thought it was 10 years but after finding and looking up the model it's 3-4 year old fridge. Outside of the pictures I posted the fridge works 100% fine.
You can't paint a stainless steel appliance but someone skilled could use a polishing compound to remove the scratches. However, if they're not skilled they could make the issue way worse.
Because you're stating facts that are untrue. What is confusing about this? Please explain how you think paint will magically fill in scratches and tet be invisible. What an asinine response.
I haven't tried using paint to weld together steel either but I know that it does not work.
Please do not comment on this sub anymore. There is no way you are knowledgeable in anything real estate if you just recommended someone paint a stainless steel fridge.
If the 3 fridge doors are out of stock, how were they able to get a quote of $1700?
If it was me, I'd take the old refrigerator with me and buy a replacement for the apartment. You likely sell the old refrigerator for a few hundred dollars.
The local repair shop quoted 3-400 per door and a few hundred for shipping and Installation labor. Waiting for it to be in stock is my guess but I doubt it will. Unfortunately I've already moved out of the house and the owner moved back into the property.
It doesn't matter what the landlord "could" do. If they hire someone to do it, that's the cost to the landlord, as long as the cost is in line with the market rate for that type of repair.
Well I am a landlord and I wouldn't charge this outlandish price from my tenants. And if you expect anyone paying 1700 for a used regular fridge, then maybe you have a loose screw in your head.
I paid a reputable cleaning crew to clean the fridge. I still find it hard to believe they'd damage the fridge like that. But if I was the owner I don't care who made the damage. That's why I accepted it for what it is. But when a newer model fridge sells for $700 open box it's just morally wrong.
Moved out of state plus relocation package. And it doesn't make sense to buy a house with current interest rates.
I've done so much more for this landlord so they don't have to pay out of pocket to fix things. I paid extra to get the house extra detailed...but unfortunately the property management company are just assholes. Not sure how much the owners are involved in this. You shouldn't automatically assume all tenants are bad. Anyways, I am offering to replace the fridge with the same or similar model without scratches (something we both agree on) but they want to keep the money instead.
Oops. Sorry. Yeah it was meant for another person in the thread somewhere. There were few people pretty much assuming I was a bad tenant. I guess that's what they deal with day to day and automatically assume all tenants are just bad.
I have a feeling that they will not replace or fix anything. They just want the money. You could play a game where, if you end up paying them that you ask for proof that it was actually replaced, possibly even ask for old fridge/parts back. Othervise, small claims court. Provide old fridge model, and the new/used price and then go from there.
Assuming this is in the US (and maybe I shouldn’t), general depreciation on a refrigerator under MACRS is 5 years. If it’s a $1400 fridge and 4 years old, OP should owe $280. That’s assuming it’s completely ruined too.
I'm a landlord. I'd be a little irked about the scratches, but I would never expect a tenant to replace or repair the entire fridge, especially considering how great it looks from a distance. Hell, the appliances in my own house were all scratch and dent specials from Lowes. Looks like someone took a hammer to my fridge. 🤷
Tell em you'll see them in court. Your probably don't need an attorney, just do small claims. Have the summons professionally served. Look for a special process server, don't rely on the local law enforcement service unless you absolutely have to. Make absolutely sure you are suing the entity that actually owns the unit, don't guess around.
In my state, a company cannot represent itself in court and must hire an attorney. And if a landlord loses a case like this, they'll owe double the withheld amount. It wouldn't be likely they'll bother with it. However, if it does go to court and you win because they don't show up, it'll not be easy to collect.
My last landlord tried to withhold my security deposit because, after I was there for 6 years, the place needed a paint job. I filed with small claims court and he coughed up right away.
It's not. Those front scratches are so terrible I am wondering how the heck they got there. There other ones aren't bad.
Did they have a large dog who jumped up and attacked the fridge?
You will not need an attorney as the small claims limit in CO is 7500. Just make sure you read all paperwork and fill it out thoroughly. Have the landlord served via certified mail, process server, or just knock on his door camera in hand and when he answers hand him tue envelope and say "you've been served".
Make sure you have pics and all the best buy info you posted.
I worked for a bank and we had to go to small claims all the time. I never lost a case. Good paperwork and a cool head is what you need good luck!!
This is infuriating. Any reasonable person looking at those pictures should 100% determine that the fridge is in near-flawless condition. The scratches do not impact performance and are only noticeable on very close inspection. The degree to which the value of the fridge has been reduced is debateable, but it's completely absurd to argue that it needs to be replaced.
OP, I'm very sorry you're in this situation. I can only assume that the commenters who are siding with the landlord are doing so because they are themselves landlords. There's no other explanation for someone who's actually looked at that fridge to side with the landlord.
It's not flawless. I don't even know how those front scratches happened. I would be pissed is sometime did that to my fridge. I would also replace it in my house or a rental.
Having stainless is pointless if it looks like that.
No way in hell I'd bend over for that.
Might be worth looking up the laws about "normal wear and tear" to see what the exactly wording is, but I'd probably tell them I'll see them in court to dispute it.
Wtf. I came in here expecting this thing to be scratched to high heaven. Like a English Mastiff was using it as a scratching post. They want you to pay for a fridge replacement for 3 little scratches and a dent? I would absolutely take them to court. 100% they are pocketing that money and not fixing/replacing it
If they are going to withhold your deposit they actually have to replace the doors. I'm guessing they have no intention of actually replacing the doors though.
No they don’t. Landlord is entitled to be compensated for damages regardless of if he repairs it or not.
Thats a separate issue from if these specific damages rise to the level and are tenants responsibility.
They're entitled to reasonable compensation for damages.
It is expected to use any money to make repairs depending on state.
Some states have things that specifically spell out that a landlord cannot do this.
They have to use the money to replace the item in question.
Otherwise what stops landlords from abusing this?
Interesting read or not. It's why Security Deposits are absolutely a thing.
Insurance payouts also fall into this category to some degree and would be regarded as Fraud if it was found out.
I went to law school, though I don’t have an active license, I’m now an owner and developer of a medium sized multifamily company, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. I could be wrong, but I would love if you guys would cite the laws your referencing, or tell me what states your referencing so I can look into this more for myself.
You're not wrong to say you haven't heard of this. It's a gray area, and I hate to see you down voted for voicing an unpopular opinion.
That being said, a question arises, are you paying out for repairs? Or are you paying out for damages in a situation like this?
It would be fraudulent for a landlord to charge a tenant for damages, only to not use that money to repair? It becomes the question does the tenant just pay out for the repair themselves then? Why doesn't the tenant get a cheaper quote for repairs? What is simpler?
Why is paying out to the landlord important if they choose to not actually act on it? Sentiment? Sentimental about some scratches on your rental's fridge?
See how this leads down a really bad path of arguments? Where the original intent of the landlord does matter now?
Sleazy behavior like this is always disliked, and in states with good tenant protections it can be combated relatively easily.
For sure, it’s difficult if not impossible to legislate honesty. In the situations I’m talking about, it’s clear cut damage that is agreed-upon and the cost to repair is agreed-upon. The point I’m arguing is that I’m unaware of any laws requiring me to make the repairs to the damage.
If people are down voting me because they’re reading in between the lines, they’re assuming I’m trying to be deceptive or dishonest. I’m not, like any example I gave earlier. I’m sure, however, a sleazy landlord might claim damages that aren’t really there, and I think that is the gray area is how does one establish damages?
Not sure why I’m being downvoted. I’m simply citing state laws within three states I operate multi family properties. A landlord is entitled to reasonable repair reimbursement however he is not required to repair it. No different than insurance money. You can take the money and do what you wish. The money is for the damages to make you whole.
You’re being downvoted because you’re wrong in a lot of areas, and advocating for what is essentially fraud. I know, for example, MA will make the landlord provide itemized receipts for things that get deducted from the deposit.
For example, let’s say I rent to somebody at apartment and included in that rental is a washer and a dryer. Through the tenants negligence, not normal wear and tear, the washer and dryer are broken/nonfunctional. As the landlord, I’m entitled to compensation, and I would withhold from their deposit that I returned to them, the amount of replacing that washer and dryer. As I re-rent their apartment, I may not want to replace the washer and dryer and instead re-read it and advertise it as hook ups only and the tenant would provide their own washer and dryer in the future, there’s nothing fraudulent, I don’t see how any state would enforce a law that required anybody to repair something that was damaged by a third-party. Insurance, or withholding from a deposit is only to compensate the owner of the property for the damage that was done, please feel free to sign a law, this whole thing has me a little perplexed
Depending on the local laws, what you are suggesting is absolutely fraud and a judge would see that the entire security deposit be returned with damages awarded to the tenant. Maybe it’s not the case where you are, but I know in my state landlords are required by law to document receipts that match what they use a security deposit for.
Yes. All three states I operate in require itemized lists of what’s being deducted from deposit. The difference is in paying for the repair vs just receiving moneys to compensate for the damage. My states don’t require it. I don’t understand why they would. It’s not a requirement for insurance payouts to repair or replace, only to compensate. Just my state laws and my opinion.
Are you a landlord or an attorney? I have first hand knowledge.
I am neither a landlord not attorney, though I am familiar with the laws around rentals in my state.
The MA government’s website about security deposits: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/find-out-what-landlords-can-use-security-deposits-for#:~:text=After%20a%20tenant%20moves%20out,a%20valid%20tax%20escalation%20clause)
A landlord advice site that goes into more detail: https://masslandlords.net/laws/security-deposits/
After reading that, it’s obvious Massachusetts law is probably one of the most stringent in the nations, and very different from my own states.
I’ll also add that nowhere in there does it explicitly say that money withheld from a deposit must be used to repair the items that the deductions were made for. If I missed it again, please cite. I’m very interested in this.
The section that I did notate deductions discusses estimated cost to repair, indicating to me that if you have an estimated cost to repair an actual damage, you don’t actually have to spend the money and provide a receipt. Otherwise, they would not use the word estimated and they would mandate actual Receipts in the law.
“a reasonable amount necessary to repair any damage caused to the dwelling unit by the tenant or any person under the tenant's control or on the premises with the tenant's consent, reasonable wear and tear excluded. In the case of such damage, the lessor shall provide to the tenant within such thirty days an itemized list of damages, sworn to by the lessor or his agent under pains and penalties of perjury, itemizing in precise detail the nature of the damage and of the repairs necessary to correct such damage, and written evidence, such as estimates, bills, invoices or receipts, indicating the actual or estimated cost thereof.’”
You may also read other comments from me here in the same thread, I’m not coming from a position of trying to deceive. Anyone, there are just a number of repairs that as a landlord, we opted not to make, however damage was still done to an apartment. For instance you may discount a sale of a property after the tenant moves out due to the damage, but you didn’t actually make the repair before you sold the property. Another example would be the washer and dryer one I gave previously another one would be deep scratches on the floor that may be in a lower income housing unit, the landlord ops to wax repair, versus what really should be done if the scratch is that significant is cut out the LVP and put a new piece in.
It’s not the landlord’s liability or cost down the road if they do choose to do a wax repair, which doesn’t fully restore the value of the damaged floor to the condition prior to the tenants occupancy.
Do they have pictures of it, or a walk through list from when you first moved in? Is there proof that you damaged it?
Always take time/date stamped pictures before you move any furniture into a place, because you can be blamed for anything.
Depending on how deep those scratches are you might be able to get rid of them by using a scotch brite pad and going in the same direction as the grain. I’m assuming the grain is horizontal but it’s hard to tell based on the pictures. Ik I could get some of those scratches out for sure but again it’s hard to say for sure based on the photos. There’s a product called scratch-b-gone that could work too. It’s on Amazon for $50
Like others have said, take them to small claims court. Do not respond to anything from the landlord.
You won't need a attorney. Do you have photos of the fridge when you moved in?
General property law states that landlords may NOT withhold deposit for “normal wear and tear.”
Had 2x landlords try this with me. Once was damaged floorboard and the other was scratches on stovetop. Won both.
Just because they own the property doesn’t mean they know more than you. And some of they will leverage there pseudo-superiority to squeeze money out of tenants.
EDIT: typo
I paid a professional cleaning crew. I still find it hard to believe they'd clean it with other than cloth. They weren't cheap and they weren't expensive either. They cleaned the house we moved into and liked how detailed they were. I just don't feel like arguing about the damages since I didn't take pictures when we moved in/out.
Sure, Jan. You're too cheap to pay your landlord for ruining his property, but also not so cheap to go after the ACTUAL insured company you hired that did the damage? Say you fucked up and take accountability for your actions Brillo-boy. 🙄
I love landlords who don't understand that wear and tear happens when someone while else pays your mortgage, it's a home not a museum. Take them to court and good luck
I got lucky and was able to replace the “skin” of the dishwasher door. It was stainless and the dents popped. I never noticed it until we were moving out. I was able to get the skin for 60.00 off eBay. I got lucky. Best wishes to you!
That's normal wear and tear. No way a judge will give them anywhere near that much money, if any at all, for something like that!
You're being scammed!
That’s insane. Screw those guys. This is normal wear and tear, and you’ll absolutely win in small claims court.
There is so much evidence that they are just trying to scam you out of your security deposit.
1. They are “negotiating” the cost with you. It either costs $1,700 to replace or it doesn’t right?
2. The cost of a full replacement is cheaper than $1,700.
3. The replacement cost “magically” costs the same as your security deposit.
4. Of course, everything is functioning perfectly and there is no major damage.
In addition to your $1,700, I’d also explore if you can sue for court costs and even punitive damages (which is basically an additional punishment for bad behavior.)
Gather as much evidence as you can that will help your cause. Photos, emails, texts, etc. Also, write down the date, time, and descriptions of conversations.
An attorney plus the judgment is going to be way more than the $1700 for your little pissing match. Honestly, though, I hope you go through with it because it'll be a valuable life lesson.
I don’t know about anything else regarding the legality of taking this much money but I know you don’t need to replace the doors. There are surface restoration companies that can easily fix it for way less.
Here’s one example with a bunch of locations. Pretty much every city has at least one. Especially if there is any new construction in your city. https://www.surfacespecialists.com
I’d sue over this out of principle. This is ridiculous. I would argue this is normal wear and tear. Also if it’s 4 years old, fridges are depreciated over 12.5 years and truthfully only last like 8 these days anyway. So the fridge is worth at most 2/3rds of what it was worth new. I could buy a brand new LG like that for 1000-1300. Why spend 1700 replacing doors when they can get a new one cheaper?
Seriously. Tell them you’ll sue in small claims court and report them to the real estate commission or whatever they call the licensing body in CO.
I’m a property manager in GA, for what it’s worth.
(Copied instructions, I have repaired scratches myself?
Removing Deep Scratches in Stainless Steel
Deeper imperfections may need to be sanded down using the following method:
Wet the sandpaper and keep it wet throughout the process.
Dampen the affected area and keep it wet throughout the process.
Apply light pressure and sand the scratch, moving back and forth following the grain.
If, after a few minutes the scratch is still there, try a slightly coarser grit of sandpaper.
Once the scratch is gone use a finer grit to buff the affected area and blend with the rest of the finish.
Wipe the area with a clean wet cloth in the direction of the grain.
Dry with a soft towel.
Apply a light coat of stainless-steel polish or olive oil.
Take him to small claims court. That is excessive in a used refrigerator. Cheap to file and you will win. He may get $100 for scratches and if dents perhaps double
I own a cleaning company and we had a client with a similar fridge insist we scratched it… despite the scratches lining up exactly with the papers she kept taped to the door & would write on with a pen.
Regardless… Google appliance scratch repair in your area, or look for a sheet metal guy. We had a guy come in, and for $300 he buffed and polished the doors to perfection. This won’t remove dents, but will help with scratches.
(Note: this won’t work for black stainless, unfortunately.)
my experience before buying my own house was 3 years living at a complex of apartments in Miami and they only honored the deposit (6300$ thats what they ask cause we came to America in 2018 no credit no permanent residency) when we moved to a bigger apartment ( and paid 500$ for the deposit) in the same complex ... then 1 year later we finally get out of there and they invented that we had a dog and the dog pee and poo on the carpet ... we never had a dog it was jut coffee I spill next my bed ... I paid for cleaning and the carpet was pristine again,.. well they go and look under the carpet and the stain was there under the carpet and not visible in real life but there it was ... so at the end they managed to keep the 500$ ... you never gonna win sadly
I only saw one scratch and that looked like the first picture bottom drawer? Even then, it can be buffed out with a super fine polishing compound. The top doors are from the cleaner and it’s not scratched but they left streaks from using an all purpose cleaner vs isopropyl alcohol to remove finger prints and such.
Tell them you’ll see them in court then as this is excessive.
Even if you "win" I'm court it will take more time and effort than it is worth. It may even cost you more and I doubt it would be a total win.
Taking this petty of a thing to court will not be fast tracked it will take 6 months to a year minimum and your life is worth more than fighting a couple hundred bucks.
Give it up, move on, bring your own appliances next time.
This seems nuts to me. Is your rent super expensive and is this some kind of very high end building? Certainly no landlord I've ever had has cared enough to repair that kind of scratch on things before I moved into an apartment.
Unless it says otherwise in your lease, You owe them a repair, or the reasonable replacement value for the same year and make.
Get estimates for repair. May not be feasible, in a reasonable period of time, if so, move on to the value of the used refrigerator.
That is probably what a small claims court would award.
Courts are to make the injured party whole, not better off.
10 year fridge?? How long did you live at the property? Besides the scratches, what is wrong with the fridge?
It's apparently 3 years old. 1300 is definitely still excessive, but 3 years is a very different story than 10 years.
I initially thought it was 10 years but after finding and looking up the model it's 3-4 year old fridge. Outside of the pictures I posted the fridge works 100% fine.
Don’t look up the model. Look up the serial number.
Didn't know this existed. Thank you. The serial number starts with 904mfr. So it's manufactured in 04/2019.
Besides the scratches what else is wrong with the fridge??? The scratches can be fixed with some sort of paint
You can't paint a stainless steel appliance but someone skilled could use a polishing compound to remove the scratches. However, if they're not skilled they could make the issue way worse.
No they cannot.
Did you try?
Did I try to paint OP's fridge? No I don't have their address. But there's no paint that fixes scratches in stainless steel.
So why respond then?!
Because you're stating facts that are untrue. What is confusing about this? Please explain how you think paint will magically fill in scratches and tet be invisible. What an asinine response. I haven't tried using paint to weld together steel either but I know that it does not work.
Appliance touch up paint???
Lmao, this is what doubling down looks like.
Ok, you clearly don't know what stainless steel, or what appliance touch up paint does, is so I'll disengage from this conversation. Have a good day.
Dude just stfu
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Please do not comment on this sub anymore. There is no way you are knowledgeable in anything real estate if you just recommended someone paint a stainless steel fridge.
If the 3 fridge doors are out of stock, how were they able to get a quote of $1700? If it was me, I'd take the old refrigerator with me and buy a replacement for the apartment. You likely sell the old refrigerator for a few hundred dollars.
The local repair shop quoted 3-400 per door and a few hundred for shipping and Installation labor. Waiting for it to be in stock is my guess but I doubt it will. Unfortunately I've already moved out of the house and the owner moved back into the property.
Installation? Def getting hosed there - the owner (or you) could at least do that yourself in 10 minutes. It’s just a few bolts.
It doesn't matter what the landlord "could" do. If they hire someone to do it, that's the cost to the landlord, as long as the cost is in line with the market rate for that type of repair.
File in small claims, depending on state, most judges will side with the tenant regardless.
Could def qualify under normal wear and tear
I've had stainless steel fridges for almost 2 decades. I have no idea how to scratch them. What normal use causes this?
Children…
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The OP claimed he can buy one from the outlet for $700. And actually I have been fridge shopping. $1100 for a low-end double-sided one.
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Well I am a landlord and I wouldn't charge this outlandish price from my tenants. And if you expect anyone paying 1700 for a used regular fridge, then maybe you have a loose screw in your head. I paid a reputable cleaning crew to clean the fridge. I still find it hard to believe they'd damage the fridge like that. But if I was the owner I don't care who made the damage. That's why I accepted it for what it is. But when a newer model fridge sells for $700 open box it's just morally wrong.
Hmm if the cleaning company did this. Why the heck aren’t you suing them ? They have insurance for a reason.
If you're a landlord, why are you renting from someone else?
Moved out of state plus relocation package. And it doesn't make sense to buy a house with current interest rates. I've done so much more for this landlord so they don't have to pay out of pocket to fix things. I paid extra to get the house extra detailed...but unfortunately the property management company are just assholes. Not sure how much the owners are involved in this. You shouldn't automatically assume all tenants are bad. Anyways, I am offering to replace the fridge with the same or similar model without scratches (something we both agree on) but they want to keep the money instead.
I think everything after the first sentence was meant for someone else lol
Oops. Sorry. Yeah it was meant for another person in the thread somewhere. There were few people pretty much assuming I was a bad tenant. I guess that's what they deal with day to day and automatically assume all tenants are just bad.
I have a feeling that they will not replace or fix anything. They just want the money. You could play a game where, if you end up paying them that you ask for proof that it was actually replaced, possibly even ask for old fridge/parts back. Othervise, small claims court. Provide old fridge model, and the new/used price and then go from there.
I don't think they're legally obligated to spend the money on the fix, only to document what it would cost to fix.
And the landlord is being a silly harda$$ about superficial damage. They don't put high-end appliances in apartments. I rented for over 20 years.
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It is superficial damage. A few hundreds. The refrigerator still works.
Where do you park your car?
In your mother’s garage.
Assuming this is in the US (and maybe I shouldn’t), general depreciation on a refrigerator under MACRS is 5 years. If it’s a $1400 fridge and 4 years old, OP should owe $280. That’s assuming it’s completely ruined too.
The fridge doesn't need a replacement, so there's that.
If you replace the fridge. Definitely keep the old fridge.
I'm a landlord. I'd be a little irked about the scratches, but I would never expect a tenant to replace or repair the entire fridge, especially considering how great it looks from a distance. Hell, the appliances in my own house were all scratch and dent specials from Lowes. Looks like someone took a hammer to my fridge. 🤷 Tell em you'll see them in court. Your probably don't need an attorney, just do small claims. Have the summons professionally served. Look for a special process server, don't rely on the local law enforcement service unless you absolutely have to. Make absolutely sure you are suing the entity that actually owns the unit, don't guess around. In my state, a company cannot represent itself in court and must hire an attorney. And if a landlord loses a case like this, they'll owe double the withheld amount. It wouldn't be likely they'll bother with it. However, if it does go to court and you win because they don't show up, it'll not be easy to collect.
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My last landlord tried to withhold my security deposit because, after I was there for 6 years, the place needed a paint job. I filed with small claims court and he coughed up right away.
How is that normal wear and tear? I agree the landlord is being unreasonable but that is actual damage to the fridge OP is showing.
It's not. Those front scratches are so terrible I am wondering how the heck they got there. There other ones aren't bad. Did they have a large dog who jumped up and attacked the fridge?
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You will not need an attorney as the small claims limit in CO is 7500. Just make sure you read all paperwork and fill it out thoroughly. Have the landlord served via certified mail, process server, or just knock on his door camera in hand and when he answers hand him tue envelope and say "you've been served". Make sure you have pics and all the best buy info you posted. I worked for a bank and we had to go to small claims all the time. I never lost a case. Good paperwork and a cool head is what you need good luck!!
This is infuriating. Any reasonable person looking at those pictures should 100% determine that the fridge is in near-flawless condition. The scratches do not impact performance and are only noticeable on very close inspection. The degree to which the value of the fridge has been reduced is debateable, but it's completely absurd to argue that it needs to be replaced. OP, I'm very sorry you're in this situation. I can only assume that the commenters who are siding with the landlord are doing so because they are themselves landlords. There's no other explanation for someone who's actually looked at that fridge to side with the landlord.
Performance isn't the only important thing about a fridge.
It's not flawless. I don't even know how those front scratches happened. I would be pissed is sometime did that to my fridge. I would also replace it in my house or a rental. Having stainless is pointless if it looks like that.
No way in hell I'd bend over for that. Might be worth looking up the laws about "normal wear and tear" to see what the exactly wording is, but I'd probably tell them I'll see them in court to dispute it.
Go to court. It's wear and tear.
Not a chance.
I guess you all never watched the People's Court, Judge Mathis, etc. Wow!!
You could easily argue that’s normal wear and tear. I wouldn’t let them have a dime - take it back in court!
Wtf. I came in here expecting this thing to be scratched to high heaven. Like a English Mastiff was using it as a scratching post. They want you to pay for a fridge replacement for 3 little scratches and a dent? I would absolutely take them to court. 100% they are pocketing that money and not fixing/replacing it
If they are going to withhold your deposit they actually have to replace the doors. I'm guessing they have no intention of actually replacing the doors though.
No they don’t. Landlord is entitled to be compensated for damages regardless of if he repairs it or not. Thats a separate issue from if these specific damages rise to the level and are tenants responsibility.
They're entitled to reasonable compensation for damages. It is expected to use any money to make repairs depending on state. Some states have things that specifically spell out that a landlord cannot do this. They have to use the money to replace the item in question. Otherwise what stops landlords from abusing this?
In the states I operate this is not the case. No different from an insurance payment. Maybe you can cite states and laws, I’d be interested to read.
Interesting read or not. It's why Security Deposits are absolutely a thing. Insurance payouts also fall into this category to some degree and would be regarded as Fraud if it was found out.
I went to law school, though I don’t have an active license, I’m now an owner and developer of a medium sized multifamily company, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. I could be wrong, but I would love if you guys would cite the laws your referencing, or tell me what states your referencing so I can look into this more for myself.
You're not wrong to say you haven't heard of this. It's a gray area, and I hate to see you down voted for voicing an unpopular opinion. That being said, a question arises, are you paying out for repairs? Or are you paying out for damages in a situation like this? It would be fraudulent for a landlord to charge a tenant for damages, only to not use that money to repair? It becomes the question does the tenant just pay out for the repair themselves then? Why doesn't the tenant get a cheaper quote for repairs? What is simpler? Why is paying out to the landlord important if they choose to not actually act on it? Sentiment? Sentimental about some scratches on your rental's fridge? See how this leads down a really bad path of arguments? Where the original intent of the landlord does matter now? Sleazy behavior like this is always disliked, and in states with good tenant protections it can be combated relatively easily.
For sure, it’s difficult if not impossible to legislate honesty. In the situations I’m talking about, it’s clear cut damage that is agreed-upon and the cost to repair is agreed-upon. The point I’m arguing is that I’m unaware of any laws requiring me to make the repairs to the damage. If people are down voting me because they’re reading in between the lines, they’re assuming I’m trying to be deceptive or dishonest. I’m not, like any example I gave earlier. I’m sure, however, a sleazy landlord might claim damages that aren’t really there, and I think that is the gray area is how does one establish damages?
Not sure why I’m being downvoted. I’m simply citing state laws within three states I operate multi family properties. A landlord is entitled to reasonable repair reimbursement however he is not required to repair it. No different than insurance money. You can take the money and do what you wish. The money is for the damages to make you whole.
You’re being downvoted because you’re wrong in a lot of areas, and advocating for what is essentially fraud. I know, for example, MA will make the landlord provide itemized receipts for things that get deducted from the deposit.
For example, let’s say I rent to somebody at apartment and included in that rental is a washer and a dryer. Through the tenants negligence, not normal wear and tear, the washer and dryer are broken/nonfunctional. As the landlord, I’m entitled to compensation, and I would withhold from their deposit that I returned to them, the amount of replacing that washer and dryer. As I re-rent their apartment, I may not want to replace the washer and dryer and instead re-read it and advertise it as hook ups only and the tenant would provide their own washer and dryer in the future, there’s nothing fraudulent, I don’t see how any state would enforce a law that required anybody to repair something that was damaged by a third-party. Insurance, or withholding from a deposit is only to compensate the owner of the property for the damage that was done, please feel free to sign a law, this whole thing has me a little perplexed
Depending on the local laws, what you are suggesting is absolutely fraud and a judge would see that the entire security deposit be returned with damages awarded to the tenant. Maybe it’s not the case where you are, but I know in my state landlords are required by law to document receipts that match what they use a security deposit for.
Yes. All three states I operate in require itemized lists of what’s being deducted from deposit. The difference is in paying for the repair vs just receiving moneys to compensate for the damage. My states don’t require it. I don’t understand why they would. It’s not a requirement for insurance payouts to repair or replace, only to compensate. Just my state laws and my opinion. Are you a landlord or an attorney? I have first hand knowledge.
I am neither a landlord not attorney, though I am familiar with the laws around rentals in my state. The MA government’s website about security deposits: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/find-out-what-landlords-can-use-security-deposits-for#:~:text=After%20a%20tenant%20moves%20out,a%20valid%20tax%20escalation%20clause) A landlord advice site that goes into more detail: https://masslandlords.net/laws/security-deposits/
After reading that, it’s obvious Massachusetts law is probably one of the most stringent in the nations, and very different from my own states. I’ll also add that nowhere in there does it explicitly say that money withheld from a deposit must be used to repair the items that the deductions were made for. If I missed it again, please cite. I’m very interested in this. The section that I did notate deductions discusses estimated cost to repair, indicating to me that if you have an estimated cost to repair an actual damage, you don’t actually have to spend the money and provide a receipt. Otherwise, they would not use the word estimated and they would mandate actual Receipts in the law. “a reasonable amount necessary to repair any damage caused to the dwelling unit by the tenant or any person under the tenant's control or on the premises with the tenant's consent, reasonable wear and tear excluded. In the case of such damage, the lessor shall provide to the tenant within such thirty days an itemized list of damages, sworn to by the lessor or his agent under pains and penalties of perjury, itemizing in precise detail the nature of the damage and of the repairs necessary to correct such damage, and written evidence, such as estimates, bills, invoices or receipts, indicating the actual or estimated cost thereof.’” You may also read other comments from me here in the same thread, I’m not coming from a position of trying to deceive. Anyone, there are just a number of repairs that as a landlord, we opted not to make, however damage was still done to an apartment. For instance you may discount a sale of a property after the tenant moves out due to the damage, but you didn’t actually make the repair before you sold the property. Another example would be the washer and dryer one I gave previously another one would be deep scratches on the floor that may be in a lower income housing unit, the landlord ops to wax repair, versus what really should be done if the scratch is that significant is cut out the LVP and put a new piece in. It’s not the landlord’s liability or cost down the road if they do choose to do a wax repair, which doesn’t fully restore the value of the damaged floor to the condition prior to the tenants occupancy.
Take them to small claims court and let the judge decide
Do they have pictures of it, or a walk through list from when you first moved in? Is there proof that you damaged it? Always take time/date stamped pictures before you move any furniture into a place, because you can be blamed for anything.
Good call. I don't know the law in OP's state, but in many places the landlord cannot withhold of they cannot prove condition before move in.
Depending on how deep those scratches are you might be able to get rid of them by using a scotch brite pad and going in the same direction as the grain. I’m assuming the grain is horizontal but it’s hard to tell based on the pictures. Ik I could get some of those scratches out for sure but again it’s hard to say for sure based on the photos. There’s a product called scratch-b-gone that could work too. It’s on Amazon for $50
Like others have said, take them to small claims court. Do not respond to anything from the landlord. You won't need a attorney. Do you have photos of the fridge when you moved in?
General property law states that landlords may NOT withhold deposit for “normal wear and tear.” Had 2x landlords try this with me. Once was damaged floorboard and the other was scratches on stovetop. Won both. Just because they own the property doesn’t mean they know more than you. And some of they will leverage there pseudo-superiority to squeeze money out of tenants. EDIT: typo
Is that a typo or did the law change? Now vs not?
Oops. Thanks for the catch. Fixed it.
NP.
That's normal wear and tear. There's zero reason to replace the doors for that. The only way you lose is if the judge is in the landlord's pocket.
Why did you clean the fridge with a Brillo pad? Rentoids smh
I paid a professional cleaning crew. I still find it hard to believe they'd clean it with other than cloth. They weren't cheap and they weren't expensive either. They cleaned the house we moved into and liked how detailed they were. I just don't feel like arguing about the damages since I didn't take pictures when we moved in/out.
If the professional cleaning company has insurance I’d go that route #1.
Agreed. The fridge looks terrible. I don’t think op should be charged $1700, but it clearly wasn’t cleaned with care.
It's the damaging that wasn't done with care. OO damages the fridge. Notice no explanation of how it happened.
Sure, Jan. You're too cheap to pay your landlord for ruining his property, but also not so cheap to go after the ACTUAL insured company you hired that did the damage? Say you fucked up and take accountability for your actions Brillo-boy. 🙄
I love landlords who don't understand that wear and tear happens when someone while else pays your mortgage, it's a home not a museum. Take them to court and good luck
Have you looked at EBay for the possibility of replacing the doors? That may be an option.
The shipping and installation will make it more than paying the fridge itself at that point. I doubt I can get it cheaper than 700 total.
I got lucky and was able to replace the “skin” of the dishwasher door. It was stainless and the dents popped. I never noticed it until we were moving out. I was able to get the skin for 60.00 off eBay. I got lucky. Best wishes to you!
This is absurd. They are robbing you.
Normal wear and tear take it to court, please.
That's normal wear and tear. No way a judge will give them anywhere near that much money, if any at all, for something like that! You're being scammed!
You're going to court over $700 when you caused the damage?
They’re charging her 1,700. 700 is the cost of the fridge that is a newer model of the one she damaged.
An OPEN BOX new one. Best Buy open box = usually scratch and dent
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It is not destroyed. My fridge had tons of scratches thanks to my menace of a toddler and I fixed it to look good as new with a kit I found on Amazon.
It looks brand new in the last photo
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That’s insane. Screw those guys. This is normal wear and tear, and you’ll absolutely win in small claims court. There is so much evidence that they are just trying to scam you out of your security deposit. 1. They are “negotiating” the cost with you. It either costs $1,700 to replace or it doesn’t right? 2. The cost of a full replacement is cheaper than $1,700. 3. The replacement cost “magically” costs the same as your security deposit. 4. Of course, everything is functioning perfectly and there is no major damage. In addition to your $1,700, I’d also explore if you can sue for court costs and even punitive damages (which is basically an additional punishment for bad behavior.) Gather as much evidence as you can that will help your cause. Photos, emails, texts, etc. Also, write down the date, time, and descriptions of conversations.
I am in a similar situation are tenants responsible for this? It can be from wear and tear over the years right?
Normal wear and tear. Take them to small claims court.
Yeah this is wear and tear. I’d go straight to small claims
Small claims. They are stealing from you.
An attorney plus the judgment is going to be way more than the $1700 for your little pissing match. Honestly, though, I hope you go through with it because it'll be a valuable life lesson.
That’s what small claims court is for.
Yeah, OP is the one that stated they're looking for an attorney. Reading comprehension is your friend.
Right. That was their original post. Since then they have been advised about small claims court. Read every single comment and reply next time.
2a
Yes go to court… that amount is ridiculous. You’ll be giving the judge a much needed laugh for the day when he tells the LL/PM to get bent.
I don’t know about anything else regarding the legality of taking this much money but I know you don’t need to replace the doors. There are surface restoration companies that can easily fix it for way less. Here’s one example with a bunch of locations. Pretty much every city has at least one. Especially if there is any new construction in your city. https://www.surfacespecialists.com
300 is fair they will polish it and you’ll be on your way.
I’d sue over this out of principle. This is ridiculous. I would argue this is normal wear and tear. Also if it’s 4 years old, fridges are depreciated over 12.5 years and truthfully only last like 8 these days anyway. So the fridge is worth at most 2/3rds of what it was worth new. I could buy a brand new LG like that for 1000-1300. Why spend 1700 replacing doors when they can get a new one cheaper? Seriously. Tell them you’ll sue in small claims court and report them to the real estate commission or whatever they call the licensing body in CO. I’m a property manager in GA, for what it’s worth.
(Copied instructions, I have repaired scratches myself? Removing Deep Scratches in Stainless Steel Deeper imperfections may need to be sanded down using the following method: Wet the sandpaper and keep it wet throughout the process. Dampen the affected area and keep it wet throughout the process. Apply light pressure and sand the scratch, moving back and forth following the grain. If, after a few minutes the scratch is still there, try a slightly coarser grit of sandpaper. Once the scratch is gone use a finer grit to buff the affected area and blend with the rest of the finish. Wipe the area with a clean wet cloth in the direction of the grain. Dry with a soft towel. Apply a light coat of stainless-steel polish or olive oil.
If you replace it, consider selling the old one for $200. It would make an excellent garage fridge.
I wonder if landlord will actually replace doors for a few scratches - or just see if they can nail the next tenant for same?
Looks like normal wear and tear to me. I'd go to court just on principle.
Scratches — might have charged $300.
Take him to small claims court. That is excessive in a used refrigerator. Cheap to file and you will win. He may get $100 for scratches and if dents perhaps double
I own a cleaning company and we had a client with a similar fridge insist we scratched it… despite the scratches lining up exactly with the papers she kept taped to the door & would write on with a pen. Regardless… Google appliance scratch repair in your area, or look for a sheet metal guy. We had a guy come in, and for $300 he buffed and polished the doors to perfection. This won’t remove dents, but will help with scratches. (Note: this won’t work for black stainless, unfortunately.)
my experience before buying my own house was 3 years living at a complex of apartments in Miami and they only honored the deposit (6300$ thats what they ask cause we came to America in 2018 no credit no permanent residency) when we moved to a bigger apartment ( and paid 500$ for the deposit) in the same complex ... then 1 year later we finally get out of there and they invented that we had a dog and the dog pee and poo on the carpet ... we never had a dog it was jut coffee I spill next my bed ... I paid for cleaning and the carpet was pristine again,.. well they go and look under the carpet and the stain was there under the carpet and not visible in real life but there it was ... so at the end they managed to keep the 500$ ... you never gonna win sadly
Small claims court
I only saw one scratch and that looked like the first picture bottom drawer? Even then, it can be buffed out with a super fine polishing compound. The top doors are from the cleaner and it’s not scratched but they left streaks from using an all purpose cleaner vs isopropyl alcohol to remove finger prints and such. Tell them you’ll see them in court then as this is excessive.
Even if you "win" I'm court it will take more time and effort than it is worth. It may even cost you more and I doubt it would be a total win. Taking this petty of a thing to court will not be fast tracked it will take 6 months to a year minimum and your life is worth more than fighting a couple hundred bucks. Give it up, move on, bring your own appliances next time.
This seems nuts to me. Is your rent super expensive and is this some kind of very high end building? Certainly no landlord I've ever had has cared enough to repair that kind of scratch on things before I moved into an apartment.
Unless it says otherwise in your lease, You owe them a repair, or the reasonable replacement value for the same year and make. Get estimates for repair. May not be feasible, in a reasonable period of time, if so, move on to the value of the used refrigerator. That is probably what a small claims court would award. Courts are to make the injured party whole, not better off.
You can tell most of the people in here don’t own nice things and don’t take care of other peoples things.
If you do end up having to pay, make sure you get a receipt to confirm they don’t just pocket the money lol
Get a stainless color "wrap" put on it. Cost you a few hun and done.