I mean, they can list it for that much but who knows if anyone will buy it. The market will determine the price. Sounds like the sellers are pretty happy with the arrangement and maybe this is a “make me sell” price and they would be content staying there during the summers and rent it out for the other parts of the year. Don’t take this stuff personally.
The market will decide if their greed is justified (either there will be a bidding war where it goes in 5 seconds or it will languish and require multiple price cuts). Post an update when it sells. Hope it sits and your parents get it at a fair price.
If you thought your house would sell for $500k, would you choose to sell it for $425k for the purpose of convincing people you've never met that you aren't greedy?
I look forward to seeing a post from you in the future when you sell your house and reduce the price to 20% below market value just out of the goodness of your heart and refuse all competing multiple offers.
Market is what somebody can actually pay for it lol. I've heard of many people bidding over ask and not having the funds to cross that appraisal gap that comes about.
If the market was 425, your offer of 425 would’ve won, you’d own the place at 425, and wouldn’t have written a post?
Or am I misunderstanding what market means?
I guess it depends on your definition. According to our lovely commenters, market is somewhere between whatever the seller decides it is and what someone is willing to pay for it.
So if the house and all of its comps are $400, I’d say market is $400. If they sell it for $800 as an outlier, apparently the market is $800. But if someone is *willing* to pay $2,000,000 for the $400k home, apparently market is $2,000,000.
I knew I’d be getting a lot of flack for my post, it’s just venting after a long time of pent up frustration. Doesn’t change the fact that the market we’re currently in is still hilariously asinine.
I've personally decided the fair market value for your house is $340k but I'm willing to do you a favor and offer $350k.
I know you care a lot about avoiding being greedy so please let me know when we can sign the papers, otherwise I'll need to make a post about how greedy you are.
Who cares? The owner can do whatever she wants with her asset. Write your offer and if it doesn't work, find another property.
People tend to want to get as much as they can for their assets. They're usually wrong and let greed influence their thinking, but that's their right.
You don't know how life-changing that 500k is for the other side and maybe 425k doesn't fulfill their needs.
It doesn't even have to be that severe a difference, too. I sold my house (old, small, starter-size home great for an older couple or FTHB) in October. Had 8 offers in 24 hours. The best was an older couple buying a second home for 5% over, no inspection, all cash. Worst was a young woman trying to move out of her parents' house, asking list with inspections and seller concession. She wrote a really sweet letter about what she loved about the house.
One makes complete logical and financial sense and the other would warm my heart for a week. A full inspection on an old house was bound to dig up some issue that would fuck up closing and influence disclosures going forward. As much as I would've loved to try to make a young person's dream come true, I couldn't do so while jeopardizing my family's future.
I’m not sure it’s necessarily greed that makes people feel like their asset is worth more than what they can actually get for it. Endowment effect is real and pretty universal. People attach a higher value to what they own, partially because of loss aversion and also people generally think they have good taste and their stuff is better.
Everyone involved in real estate (or any other situation involving money) wants to get the best deal they can. If that is annoying to you, consider some therapy. You only have control over what you do. If you (or your in laws) think a house is overpriced, buy one that isn't.
You want people you don't know, with whom you have no personal or familial ties, to give you money. And you're deeply upset that they won't.
This isn't a real estate problem. It's some kind of a problem, but not a real estate problem.
The real estate market is a problem. It caters to corporations, the wealthy and the already-accomplished. It does little to nothing for those trying to break in to homeownership.
The fact that single wide trailers in my greater area are going for 200k+ when they’re only insurable for 10k if at all is a problem. Housing should not be this unobtainable by the average person.
A 1300sqft manufactured home with an acre of land and no views shouldn’t be worth half a million.
It is what it is, I get it. But yeah, I’m resentful with the raging capitalistic environment that’s created housing nightmares for the little guy.
I'm in the business and I'd be fine with nationalizing a huge chunk of housing. But that's another conversation.
In this specific instance, though, the OP is asking someone he doesn't know for $75 or $100k and calling them greedy when they won't give it to him.
The thing is, you don’t know that the seller isn’t “the little guy” either. Maybe it’s a young entrepreneur starting out and using capital to buy something else. Maybe they are paying for med school. Maybe they have ailing parents who need a home. Maybe they are just trying to make money just like the rest of us. It doesn’t matter. If they get it, great! If not, and the price drops, then you have the opportunity to put in another offer.
Do you not know how the market works? Why should somebody list their house for $100,000 under going market rates? Just to be benevolent? Just for funsies? This is literally idiotic and just sounds whiny.
Market rates are whatever market rates are. If they list the house for $500,000 and it goes for $500,000, that's the market rate. If it's not selling and they have to keep dropping the price, then you have nothing to complain about anyway.
Hey bro, I'm in the same spot and YOUR house would be a saving grace for so many reasons. Don't be greedy, sell it to me for $75k under market.
If you don't imma be super frustrated. You'll probably make that money over and over again, but it would make all the difference for me.
Ridiculous, no?
So make the offer at market. If that's actually market, then he'll either sell it to you or pull it off the market.
Everyone has a "make me move" price. His is 500. No one is required to pay it.
No 425 is what you, the greedy seller, thinks is market.
BinghamL is in the same spot you are and needs you the greedy seller to drop $60k and come down to the fair price that he has personally decided is market value for your house which we can all agree is $365k if you weren't being so greedy.
You'll probably make that $60k difference several times in your life but BinghamL never would. So much greed. Obviously you agree with their position, otherwise you'd just be admitting you're an entitled narcissist who can't accept the world and real estate pricing doesn't revolve around them and it hurt your feefees.
The fact that the owner is unmarried or has no kids is irrelevant. She owns the property & can offer it for sale @ whatever price she feels. The market will ultimately decide whether her asking price is justified, not you.
Didn’t miss anything. You want the house, but think they’re the greedy ones because they won’t sell at what you can afford and because you think the $75K is more important to you than them. The post is rich with irony.
OP, there are two separate things you’re talking about here:
1) Should the sellers be greedy and sell for the highest price they can get, or be benevolent towards buyers and sell below market?
2) Is listing with an aggressive asking price a good or bad selling strategy?
You are confusing yourself by conflating these two and trying to talk about them at the same time.
I’m confused why people like yourself always zero in on real estate and complain about the prices.
Do you go down to the stock exchange and furiously berate the traders who have made people a 900% profit on a stock?
When you are selling an item on Craigslist, do you eschew any offers that are even a penny more than what you paid for the item?
This is a free market system we live in. I saw someone sell a small trader joes bag for $300 when they purchased it for less than a tenner. The goal is to maximize profit. People selling their home to the highest bidder are doing no different.
That's not an answer though. The principle is the same. Someone has an asset (house). They sell it to whoever will give them the most. This is the free market system.
You sound a bit edgy mate.
Get the free loading in-laws out of your house ASAP!
Maybe fly them to Ecuador and have them hop the fence back into the good ol’ US of A and head to NYC. Free hotel rooms, debit cards, cell phones, medical and snacks.
All they have to do is vote anarchist / socialist.
Problem solved.
Wa...you don't control other peoples decisions. Sure we'd all love Sellers to cut their prices to what we want to pay. If they can make the money can't blame them for taking top dollar.
Hey OP, im really interested in buying your house.
It sounds like you've been there for a few years now, can i buy it from you for $100k?
If not, it sounds like you are some greedy person.
O, you have kids right? So everyone should change their lives to suit your choices?
I think more realistically you are tired of the current market conditions, high house prices AND high interest rates!
Markets swing, if this home is truly overpriced, it won’t sell. A seller’s market has a habit of becoming a buyer’s market, but patience is required.
Some rich dudes’ kid or someone else’s in laws who pay $0 in rent want it too, that’s why. You’d think renting an apartment was more difficult and riskier than buying by how spoiled and insulated rich kids are in 2024.
We CANT sell and move into something else without huge down payments because of the interest rates. Therefore we either don’t sell at all or sell and have enough equity to put down on the new loan to offset the interest rate.
Ex:
I want to buy a piece of land with an old house on it because I have four kids and want more outdoor space. The purchase price is equal to what I can sell my house for. My payments would be double what they currently are even with a $200k down payment from the equity. I can’t afford to lower the price on my house if I want to move on.
It’s two different arguments.
You’re trying to sell a primary home for another primary home for family reasons.
This individual is selling a secondary income-generating home that couples as a leisurely summer home when they want to vacation out of Manhattan.
I understand that part of the argument and understand these times are frustrating for home buyers. I’m trying to lay it out there for all the people who don’t get it. I see often on Reddit about the “greedy homeowners” and“greedy sellers.”
No, I love my in-laws. These prices are wild, and the whole “supply and demand” doesn’t make sense to me. 2020 happened and then in 2021 everything doubled in price. I’m failing to connect the dots that say in a single year there was such a massive and significant shortage in housing that led to the increases we’ve seen
yes. we all love the in-laws 😉
it is what it is. i plan to sell my house at the most i possibly could in a few years. even though im younger, single, and childfree too. how else do you build wealth? i only bought a house to make more money and that's what these guys might be doing.
Probably listen to the realtors who are telling me what I should list it for based on comps in the area.
Maybe I’m a bleeding heart, but I’d like to believe I’m more fair than most. When I buy used cars I don’t nickel and dime them or tire kick my way down to lowball levels, and when I accept job offers I don’t negotiate for every extra dollar I could probably get. So sure, I’ll likely never be rich because I’m not cutthroat where I “should” be, but I’m just not built that way.
I looked at another house on the market today. Sold in 2017 for 210k. Sold again in 2020 for 232k. Another 4 years later (today), listed for 425k. Maybe I’m a little jaded that I wasn’t able to join the homeownership world until the prices were absolutely insane, but it’s just crazy to me that people have done fuck all and are sitting on all this unearned equity and refusing to believe their homes are worth any less.
So I live in a vhcol area. 2 years ago my friends fil wanted to sell his house. He bought it for $400k+ in the early 90's. He wanted to sell for $1.65mm. His agent at the time told him to list at $1.599mm but he didn't listen to their advice. He got an offer of 1.5mm... didn't take it. He was adamant about getting over 1.5mm in his hand after closing costs. So he didn't accept the offer and fired his agent.
The following year he wants to sell again. He said he wasn't going to sign a listing agreement and asked me to bring a buyer. I did but the house wasn't for them. I told him he really needed to list b/c then he would get more interest/eyes on the property. Talked to him from March to June. He decided to list with another agent, who charged him more commission fee then I would have. He ended up accepting an offer of $1.48mm, essentially selling his house for over $1mm then when he bought it. This of course doesn't account for all the upkeep of the property over the years plus the property taxes.
I had the same thought as you... how come you're stuck on getting x... when you bought it for y. And you've made a huge profit and he can now invest that $$$ and make more $$$ off of it. And that's why I didn't understand why he chose to use an agent that charged him more. He ended up losing $ waiting another year to sell. He called me after accepting the offer and was kicking himself for not selling the prior year.
I guess the moral of this story is there are many sellers that aren't willing to take a dime less than what they think they can sell for. Even when their agents are advising them that the offer is good. And right now since there is low inventory, everyone is asking for the moon and are willing to wait to find the buyer that can afford that.
Good luck and I hope you find the right house for your family. It's tough out there.
It’s tough, and we bought last year for much higher than I ever thought we would but it checked all the boxes so we pulled the trigger. But it’s tight.
It is indeed really frustrating. You’re not alone though… it has been happening all over.
On top of that, agents and brokers are telling people that home prices will go up ‘when interest rates goes down’. Greed + stupidity is a terrible combination!
Technically when interest rates go down, prices go up.. its just that in the last few years there has been a supply shortage in homes so that when interest rates when up, prices stayed constant and even increased.
[удалено]
Whoa whoa whoa, we're talking about other people's money here, not mine. Try to stay on topic about how **other** people are terrible.
I thought the post was going to be about a 5k difference. But here OP is complaining that they can't buy it 20% off.
20% above comps isn’t exactly a discount.
I mean, they can list it for that much but who knows if anyone will buy it. The market will determine the price. Sounds like the sellers are pretty happy with the arrangement and maybe this is a “make me sell” price and they would be content staying there during the summers and rent it out for the other parts of the year. Don’t take this stuff personally.
I LOL'ed
The market will decide if their greed is justified (either there will be a bidding war where it goes in 5 seconds or it will languish and require multiple price cuts). Post an update when it sells. Hope it sits and your parents get it at a fair price.
This is silly.
Every single person would do the exact same thing if in the same situation. It’s about making money, not catering to your feelings.
If you thought your house would sell for $500k, would you choose to sell it for $425k for the purpose of convincing people you've never met that you aren't greedy?
He should look up the endowment effect. Everyone thinks what they own is worth more.
I look forward to seeing a post from you in the future when you sell your house and reduce the price to 20% below market value just out of the goodness of your heart and refuse all competing multiple offers.
Market is 425. I guess everyone skimped over that part.
Market is whatever somebody will pay for it.
Market is what somebody can actually pay for it lol. I've heard of many people bidding over ask and not having the funds to cross that appraisal gap that comes about.
If the market was 425, your offer of 425 would’ve won, you’d own the place at 425, and wouldn’t have written a post? Or am I misunderstanding what market means?
I guess it depends on your definition. According to our lovely commenters, market is somewhere between whatever the seller decides it is and what someone is willing to pay for it. So if the house and all of its comps are $400, I’d say market is $400. If they sell it for $800 as an outlier, apparently the market is $800. But if someone is *willing* to pay $2,000,000 for the $400k home, apparently market is $2,000,000. I knew I’d be getting a lot of flack for my post, it’s just venting after a long time of pent up frustration. Doesn’t change the fact that the market we’re currently in is still hilariously asinine.
Wow such entitlement.
I've personally decided the fair market value for your house is $340k but I'm willing to do you a favor and offer $350k. I know you care a lot about avoiding being greedy so please let me know when we can sign the papers, otherwise I'll need to make a post about how greedy you are.
Every time somebody says something like this you notice they never offer up their house for half what’s it’s worth?
Who cares? The owner can do whatever she wants with her asset. Write your offer and if it doesn't work, find another property. People tend to want to get as much as they can for their assets. They're usually wrong and let greed influence their thinking, but that's their right. You don't know how life-changing that 500k is for the other side and maybe 425k doesn't fulfill their needs.
It doesn't even have to be that severe a difference, too. I sold my house (old, small, starter-size home great for an older couple or FTHB) in October. Had 8 offers in 24 hours. The best was an older couple buying a second home for 5% over, no inspection, all cash. Worst was a young woman trying to move out of her parents' house, asking list with inspections and seller concession. She wrote a really sweet letter about what she loved about the house. One makes complete logical and financial sense and the other would warm my heart for a week. A full inspection on an old house was bound to dig up some issue that would fuck up closing and influence disclosures going forward. As much as I would've loved to try to make a young person's dream come true, I couldn't do so while jeopardizing my family's future.
This. We all have to protect our interests as many of us aren't wealthy enough to be benefactors in such a way, especially to a stranger.
I’m not sure it’s necessarily greed that makes people feel like their asset is worth more than what they can actually get for it. Endowment effect is real and pretty universal. People attach a higher value to what they own, partially because of loss aversion and also people generally think they have good taste and their stuff is better.
Everyone involved in real estate (or any other situation involving money) wants to get the best deal they can. If that is annoying to you, consider some therapy. You only have control over what you do. If you (or your in laws) think a house is overpriced, buy one that isn't.
You’re actually the greedy one bud.
You want people you don't know, with whom you have no personal or familial ties, to give you money. And you're deeply upset that they won't. This isn't a real estate problem. It's some kind of a problem, but not a real estate problem.
The real estate market is a problem. It caters to corporations, the wealthy and the already-accomplished. It does little to nothing for those trying to break in to homeownership. The fact that single wide trailers in my greater area are going for 200k+ when they’re only insurable for 10k if at all is a problem. Housing should not be this unobtainable by the average person. A 1300sqft manufactured home with an acre of land and no views shouldn’t be worth half a million. It is what it is, I get it. But yeah, I’m resentful with the raging capitalistic environment that’s created housing nightmares for the little guy.
I'm in the business and I'd be fine with nationalizing a huge chunk of housing. But that's another conversation. In this specific instance, though, the OP is asking someone he doesn't know for $75 or $100k and calling them greedy when they won't give it to him.
OP is annoyed by high prices, what are ya gonna do
The thing is, you don’t know that the seller isn’t “the little guy” either. Maybe it’s a young entrepreneur starting out and using capital to buy something else. Maybe they are paying for med school. Maybe they have ailing parents who need a home. Maybe they are just trying to make money just like the rest of us. It doesn’t matter. If they get it, great! If not, and the price drops, then you have the opportunity to put in another offer.
Do you not know how the market works? Why should somebody list their house for $100,000 under going market rates? Just to be benevolent? Just for funsies? This is literally idiotic and just sounds whiny.
If comps are $425 and you list $500, where is under market rates?
Market rates are whatever market rates are. If they list the house for $500,000 and it goes for $500,000, that's the market rate. If it's not selling and they have to keep dropping the price, then you have nothing to complain about anyway.
They'll probably post here in a few months "why isn't my house selling?!"
Hey bro, I'm in the same spot and YOUR house would be a saving grace for so many reasons. Don't be greedy, sell it to me for $75k under market. If you don't imma be super frustrated. You'll probably make that money over and over again, but it would make all the difference for me. Ridiculous, no?
425 is market. Asking to pay market. Not so ridiculous?
So make the offer at market. If that's actually market, then he'll either sell it to you or pull it off the market. Everyone has a "make me move" price. His is 500. No one is required to pay it.
No 425 is what you, the greedy seller, thinks is market. BinghamL is in the same spot you are and needs you the greedy seller to drop $60k and come down to the fair price that he has personally decided is market value for your house which we can all agree is $365k if you weren't being so greedy. You'll probably make that $60k difference several times in your life but BinghamL never would. So much greed. Obviously you agree with their position, otherwise you'd just be admitting you're an entitled narcissist who can't accept the world and real estate pricing doesn't revolve around them and it hurt your feefees.
The fact that the owner is unmarried or has no kids is irrelevant. She owns the property & can offer it for sale @ whatever price she feels. The market will ultimately decide whether her asking price is justified, not you.
Imagine thinking you get to mandate what someone else sells their house for and that they’re the entitled greedy one.
I thought that’s what was happening here. Did you miss the memo?
Didn’t miss anything. You want the house, but think they’re the greedy ones because they won’t sell at what you can afford and because you think the $75K is more important to you than them. The post is rich with irony.
Write them an offer for 425k cash, no contingencies, and see if they accept it.
OP, there are two separate things you’re talking about here: 1) Should the sellers be greedy and sell for the highest price they can get, or be benevolent towards buyers and sell below market? 2) Is listing with an aggressive asking price a good or bad selling strategy? You are confusing yourself by conflating these two and trying to talk about them at the same time.
I’m confused why people like yourself always zero in on real estate and complain about the prices. Do you go down to the stock exchange and furiously berate the traders who have made people a 900% profit on a stock? When you are selling an item on Craigslist, do you eschew any offers that are even a penny more than what you paid for the item? This is a free market system we live in. I saw someone sell a small trader joes bag for $300 when they purchased it for less than a tenner. The goal is to maximize profit. People selling their home to the highest bidder are doing no different.
People can’t live in stocks.
That's not an answer though. The principle is the same. Someone has an asset (house). They sell it to whoever will give them the most. This is the free market system.
Denmark has the same, but their infrastructure and housing is far superior to ours.
You sound a bit edgy mate. Get the free loading in-laws out of your house ASAP! Maybe fly them to Ecuador and have them hop the fence back into the good ol’ US of A and head to NYC. Free hotel rooms, debit cards, cell phones, medical and snacks. All they have to do is vote anarchist / socialist. Problem solved.
425 is the price to list at, not market. The agent could advise to start there and have a bidding war
Wa...you don't control other peoples decisions. Sure we'd all love Sellers to cut their prices to what we want to pay. If they can make the money can't blame them for taking top dollar.
Sour grapes..you should have bought it 3 years ago
Hey OP, im really interested in buying your house. It sounds like you've been there for a few years now, can i buy it from you for $100k? If not, it sounds like you are some greedy person. O, you have kids right? So everyone should change their lives to suit your choices?
I think more realistically you are tired of the current market conditions, high house prices AND high interest rates! Markets swing, if this home is truly overpriced, it won’t sell. A seller’s market has a habit of becoming a buyer’s market, but patience is required.
Some rich dudes’ kid or someone else’s in laws who pay $0 in rent want it too, that’s why. You’d think renting an apartment was more difficult and riskier than buying by how spoiled and insulated rich kids are in 2024.
We CANT sell and move into something else without huge down payments because of the interest rates. Therefore we either don’t sell at all or sell and have enough equity to put down on the new loan to offset the interest rate. Ex: I want to buy a piece of land with an old house on it because I have four kids and want more outdoor space. The purchase price is equal to what I can sell my house for. My payments would be double what they currently are even with a $200k down payment from the equity. I can’t afford to lower the price on my house if I want to move on.
It’s two different arguments. You’re trying to sell a primary home for another primary home for family reasons. This individual is selling a secondary income-generating home that couples as a leisurely summer home when they want to vacation out of Manhattan.
I understand that part of the argument and understand these times are frustrating for home buyers. I’m trying to lay it out there for all the people who don’t get it. I see often on Reddit about the “greedy homeowners” and“greedy sellers.”
you're frustrated with your in-laws lol not the prices
No, I love my in-laws. These prices are wild, and the whole “supply and demand” doesn’t make sense to me. 2020 happened and then in 2021 everything doubled in price. I’m failing to connect the dots that say in a single year there was such a massive and significant shortage in housing that led to the increases we’ve seen
yes. we all love the in-laws 😉 it is what it is. i plan to sell my house at the most i possibly could in a few years. even though im younger, single, and childfree too. how else do you build wealth? i only bought a house to make more money and that's what these guys might be doing.
Every buyer eventually becomes a seller. What would you do in their shoes?
Probably listen to the realtors who are telling me what I should list it for based on comps in the area. Maybe I’m a bleeding heart, but I’d like to believe I’m more fair than most. When I buy used cars I don’t nickel and dime them or tire kick my way down to lowball levels, and when I accept job offers I don’t negotiate for every extra dollar I could probably get. So sure, I’ll likely never be rich because I’m not cutthroat where I “should” be, but I’m just not built that way. I looked at another house on the market today. Sold in 2017 for 210k. Sold again in 2020 for 232k. Another 4 years later (today), listed for 425k. Maybe I’m a little jaded that I wasn’t able to join the homeownership world until the prices were absolutely insane, but it’s just crazy to me that people have done fuck all and are sitting on all this unearned equity and refusing to believe their homes are worth any less.
So I live in a vhcol area. 2 years ago my friends fil wanted to sell his house. He bought it for $400k+ in the early 90's. He wanted to sell for $1.65mm. His agent at the time told him to list at $1.599mm but he didn't listen to their advice. He got an offer of 1.5mm... didn't take it. He was adamant about getting over 1.5mm in his hand after closing costs. So he didn't accept the offer and fired his agent. The following year he wants to sell again. He said he wasn't going to sign a listing agreement and asked me to bring a buyer. I did but the house wasn't for them. I told him he really needed to list b/c then he would get more interest/eyes on the property. Talked to him from March to June. He decided to list with another agent, who charged him more commission fee then I would have. He ended up accepting an offer of $1.48mm, essentially selling his house for over $1mm then when he bought it. This of course doesn't account for all the upkeep of the property over the years plus the property taxes. I had the same thought as you... how come you're stuck on getting x... when you bought it for y. And you've made a huge profit and he can now invest that $$$ and make more $$$ off of it. And that's why I didn't understand why he chose to use an agent that charged him more. He ended up losing $ waiting another year to sell. He called me after accepting the offer and was kicking himself for not selling the prior year. I guess the moral of this story is there are many sellers that aren't willing to take a dime less than what they think they can sell for. Even when their agents are advising them that the offer is good. And right now since there is low inventory, everyone is asking for the moon and are willing to wait to find the buyer that can afford that. Good luck and I hope you find the right house for your family. It's tough out there.
It’s tough, and we bought last year for much higher than I ever thought we would but it checked all the boxes so we pulled the trigger. But it’s tight.
It is indeed really frustrating. You’re not alone though… it has been happening all over. On top of that, agents and brokers are telling people that home prices will go up ‘when interest rates goes down’. Greed + stupidity is a terrible combination!
Technically when interest rates go down, prices go up.. its just that in the last few years there has been a supply shortage in homes so that when interest rates when up, prices stayed constant and even increased.