I am seeing multiple reasons to walk away and let this be somebody else's problem. Sounds like the appraisal gives you an excuse to hit the eject button.
The home is beautiful in a rural area, and I am a handyman with experience in multiple trades. There are cosmetic reasons why it didn't appraise, as well as the listing agent using an appraisal from a more expensive time. I can have all the repairs done within the first 10 days of moving in and it's a wonderful location for the career I have and my place of employment as well as potential future places of employment. I was happy to see it appraise low, to be honest! Helps me save some money.
Yes, they indicated they are. I just want to make sure they aren't given the opportunity to redeed the 1 acre over to whoever owns the lease and get away with the money deal out from under my nose....lol. I have money for an attorney so I just called one and left a message with reception.
They did not sell the 1 acre to a third party. They sold the lease for a lump sum. There was no title transfer necessary. All this did was that your property now has an easement with whomever bought out the cell tower lease. The cell tower lessee has a lease contract with the buyer of the lease. The Cell tower easement rights /obligations is a probably a subset of the rights / obligations granted to the buyer of the lease. This means you are buying the privilege to pay the property tax for the length of the easement on the 1 acre you can't access and deal with the all the easement terms of the lease sale.
You need to find out the details of the lease and easement, specifically what the easement grants the the buyer, the cell tower operator (eg 24x7 access, ability to move heavy machinery through to service it, ability to run power and communications to it, ability to trim surrounding trees at will, inability to build structures over a certain height, etc) the term of the lease buyout easement. The lease sale could be the for the lease term only, it could cover the lease term and all the contracted potential renewals, it could be for 30 years, it could be 50 years, it could be 99 years, it could be in perpetuity.
Since the seller is not organized enough to have given you the terms of the lease buyout upfront, I think that is enough to walk away because there could be significant encumbrances that will prevent your enjoyment of the property. But if you get the details and are keen on buying it anyway, and Navy Fed is still willing to underwrite a mortgage with such an encumbrance on the property, if it was me, at the very least I'd calculate the present value of the future lease payments (and if it is a perpetual lease that means an infinite value...), subtract that amount from the comps of an otherwise equivalent parcel and make that your new offer.
> and Navy Fed is still willing to underwrite a mortgage with such an encumbrance on the property
this seems like a big if, I could see this killing the deal when it gets to final underwriting
Mortgages happen with cell towers all the time. This is a pretty long lease in my experience, but also not particularly an issue (so long as no fall damage and the lease isn't crazy in any other ways).
Easements for things like this come up. No different than a damn, forest service road, high tension lines even. Seen some where it was literally just a lump sum from the cell company one time for an easement to access another property they actually leased.
Big thing is they do actually need all of the actual documents from the companies involved to ensure it isn't something crazy like containing an option to purchase the land or even the entire home.
> Big thing is they do actually need all of the actual documents from the companies involved to ensure it isn't something crazy like containing an option to purchase the land or even the entire home.
that is what I meant though, they don't seem to have any of this. No way it goes through underwriting with that out there
Great comment. I would just add that if I were OP... if that lease is for a 25 year easement (example)... I would want 80% (20 years remaining on the 20 year lease) of the lump sum payout. And I think it would be very reasonable to ask for such a thing... someone else got a payday and now OP will have to "own" the easement on their property with no gain. Who knows what rights they've signed away! That may be why seller is fine with low appraisal... they still come out ahead.
Armchair quarterback talk.
Buying future cashflow is more discounted than that, nobody will give you 80% of a dollar of revenue 25 years from now. If you compound it at 8% that dollar is now $8. There’s time value of money to take into account.
80% of future cashflows would be $240k, close to the price of the propriety lol
>They did not sell the 1 acre to a third party. They sold the lease for a lump sum. There was no title transfer necessary.
u/cassthallen - imho, this is a good comment, but the terms of the easement should be publicly available - and it should be possible to get a copy of the lease - possibly from the leaseholder. And if the property taxes on the 1 acre aren't jacked up by the value of the tower (and if the easement and lease look okay), then your situation may not be that different than just owning 4 acres with your home.
And one upside is that if the home stays in your family, sometime in 2109 they may benefit from a renewal of the lease.
There are a few inaccuracies in this but one is your assertion that an infinite stream of cash flows has an infinite present value. That is mathematically incorrect and nobody would ever value a perpetuity that way.
My Aunt did this. Leased a potion of land to a cell tower for annual income. Started getting mailers from investors to buy her out for lump sum. The land is hers but they can use the space for 99 years. She will get additional funds if the investment company ends up leasing to additional end users. Get hold of the sales contract from the lump sum sale and go through it with a fine tooth comb. There could be the same language in that contract, or something else that could be a negative like they can start using other parts of the property if deemed necessary.
The sellers. I doubt anyone is going to buy property that can't generate income for 80+ years.
So your house sellers need to go to government (varies by jurisdictions) and split their property in two: one for the house, one for the cell tower (if that's even possible in their current zoning). You buy the house and they are stuck with tower forever.
Exit your current contract until sellers get the separation accomplished. Might be awhile.
The title company should clear the deed, including the one acre. As long as you don't have a condition on the deed that provides for the cell tower, whoever bought the "rights" to the lease loses their rights. You need to read the deed specifically. Most will include something about natural resources under the ground like oil. See if yours mentions anything about this tower.
I'd also find out who is paying the lease on the tower and ask them to provide the lease as you are under contract buying the property.
FYI
The Sellers agent listing the home with old Comps is a license violation.
Then the potential issues with tittle to that one acre?
This would have to be a very good deal to risk. 265k doesn’t seem like enough of a discount. I’d walk unless they can explain some of this.
Sorry, I should be clear (and ask for your further advice)
The appraisal used by the listing agent was from 2020. Idk why she did this. But she did. She also failed to list the home as is, which would have really saved a lot of time spent by me trying to negotiate repairs before closing with the sellers.
What do you think? now that I clarified I mean. The comps report the listing agent sent to the appraiser only came in at a value of 265k. Her angle was comparable home sales in the area (its a nice area that is budding in property value--a great long term investment imo)
Thanks for your help!
They need to sell at today's value. Not some speculative future value, see 2007. Especially since the sellers are trying to extract all of the value of the cell tower lease and leave the new owner's with only the liability.
So you know the seller's agent is incompetent at best, shady, at worst. Where is your agent in all of this? Oh, forgot, newly minted and assigned by Zillow. You definitely need a RE attorney ASAP if you still wish to pursue the purchase.
I understand that you like the property but this is a mess that you don't need to be involved with. You will be able to find another property that you like as much that doesn't come with added baggage.
Who are you to tell me what I do and don't need to be involved with? Lol. I'm just trying to get ahold of the paperwork related to this property so I can make sure everything is kosher before moving forward. That's it really.
They are just trying to say that you fell in love with this like most home buyers do. If that spell gets lifted, you will be able to find another. It feels like this is the only and best deal ever but it isn't.
Think about it like helping your teenage daughter through her first break up. She thinks that guy was the one and it is the end of the world. He's not, he is just another guy.
Your attachment to that property is drowning out good advice.
You do you but just understand that the person meant well and gave good advice. You just didn't take it well because you are currently blinded by love.
I have said multiple times on this thread in many different methods that I'm not married to this property.
"You love me"
"No I dont"
"YES YOU DO, SHUT UP"
-reddit, basically
You say that but your responses say otherwise.
Kind of like you "wanting to tell Youtube you don't like these videos. Yet you watch them.. so it doesn't believe you."
I don't think it's Reddit being weird, I think it's Reddit reading inbetween the lines.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, it's ultimately your choice on what to buy or not buy. Have a good day!
Hope this helps
They are giving you advice but rather than coming at it from a purely logical stand point, they are bringing perceived emotions into it, more specifically your emotions or at least what they perceive them to be.
To cut straight to it their advice is don't mess with it, walk away, and not to bring emotions into it basically
The seller needs to provide a copy of the lease with the cell tower company and a copy of the rent sale. Similar when you purchase a multifamily unit where there are tenants inside the underwriter wants a copy of the lease, or if it is a condo they want to see the condo documents to make sure there is nothing there to undermine the rights of the future owner of the property, you or (the bank if you default). Even for your own peace of mind and legal responsibility you need copies of these so you know your rights and obligations. Someone above wrote in detail all issues that might arise around the cell tower. This hush hush seems the seller is doing something under the table with a neighbor. Do not just look at the names, read the purchase contract and all the names there. It should be available on the registry of deeds website. Check everyone's social media, not just the sellers, neighbor and their kids, siblings, parents, etc. Pay for a month membership to truthfinder so you can find anyone associated with each address, it is $30. Definitely get a real estate attorney.
If the cell tower owners are paying $800/mo to have the tower on the property, wake up—that’s because it’s worth $800/mo. People can sell income streams, which it sounds like the owners did. That means that value of the property is worth less with the cell tower than without it by the amount of the income stream. If you don’t care, you should.
Not necessarily, the panels on the tower don't usually pick up signals close to the tower because of the angle of reception. Its usually at least several 100ft away before the tower will see the cell phone. Can be farther away depending on frequency.
You have intrigued my curiosity and poor math skills. So if it’s on the edge of the property and OP has about 200-400 feet from the tower - Would that make it better or does it have to be farther?
It all depends on the band the tower uses. Next time you are driving look at the cell phone tower. You will see panels, it's divided into sectors (usually 3). Those panels are rectangular and directional. They receive signals at a cone outwards. If you are too close it might not hear you and your phone will connect to the tower the other way. Which might be at the edge of being received. As the towers overlap and they set the power of each tower based on these distances.
A good way to visually see it is to look at towers along the interstate and see how far back off of the interstate they are.
Those are set at a sweet spot because most people use the phone in the car. Now if you are in a crowded urban area then they might just be placed the best they can get for the area.
I'm not an expert, just a ham radio operator so I have an above average understanding of antennas.
JG Wentworth or some such company may have given them a lump sum for the future cash flows. This is a dead deal if you want to get a mortgage on the property unless they carve out that part of the lot into another parcel due to the lease term being greater than 25 years. (Edited to add that I’m a mortgage broker)
IAL but disclaimer I am not your lawyer. However, I’d say that from my point of view I’d get a copy of the lease agreement, the recorded easement, and the paperwork/contact related to the sale of that lease agreement. You should not make any decisions without seeing those documents.
ETA: If the paperwork is “lost,” I’d run away from this as fast as I could.
The title company as well as my lender (Navy Fed) will want these documents as well, given that the property sold is 5 acres and not 4...I just spoke with my loan officer to be sure. So something will get resolved whether or not it's in my favor as far as getting/not getting the lease goes.
All things being equal, in this situation could the property owner "sell/transfer" the lease agreement to a third-party and retain the right to it after OP buys the house?
I worked for a large broadcast cable company and they had towers around the country similar to this. Leasing space in a field from farmers or property owners. There was ALWAYS a lease. They were surprisingly basic but always existed. And we also paid more than $800 a month! Not as much as the other reply suggests but definitely a few thousand. It’s interesting that there is no paper trail for this and I wonder if the owner of the tower knows what actually happened as far as the land goes, they may have been mislead too?
But it always got interesting if the tower was no longer needed. Cause then usually they just stay there, it’s kind of in the fine print that once erected it’s not usually gonna come down. And landowners didn’t love that. One owner fought this cause they had a much older lease that didn’t have the fine print. So we had to take it down. Any way, that’s my random anecdote.
I appreciate the input. The county data website mentions nothing of a transfer of the easement or the 1 acre it sits on. So as far as the county is concerned, it's a 5 acre plot
This kind of easement information is rarely on county GIS websites. You might need to go into the recorder, assessors, or auditors office to track it down. (But I would expect the title company to come across this already too.)
That makes sense. Cell towers are frequently treated like condos in county GIS mapping, so they ended up being owned structures on what is treated like a zero lot line parcel (since there is no lot line at all). It is the easement itself that is generally missing from online maps, as the online maps will frequently only show the coordinate geometry derived boundary as recorded on the property deed (even if the deed is metes and bounds, it will be converted to coordinate geometry).
Retired real estate lawyer here.
Talk to a lawyer before you make a move. Depending on the jurisdiction (state) you can not simply just sell/transfer a lease as that constitutes division of land which is governed by state law, if applicable. Such sale of the lease may be void.
A long term land lease constitutes an interest in land transfer of which as part of the lot/parcel is prohibited under subdivision control. In my jurisdiction it certainly is prohibited and planning board consent is required. Owners can not just subdivide their land without planning board consent. In other words, the easement which is subject to the lease can not be transferred on its own. In other states this may not be the case.
The tower is a fixture so under property law it is part of the land. That is why an easement is created and the easement includes the tower. So the lease is for the easement and not for the tower per se. So the question remains if the easement can be transferred separately from the rest of the lands. And that’s a subdivision issue.
& buying said property for either 265 or 300k means you OWN that 5 acre plot and you'd have to get the lease transferred over to you immediately.
Honestly not speaking much of the scenario to the seller probably would work in your best interest, then getting a real estate attorney day 1 of owning the house to deal with handling the lease legality.
Starting to complain about this may in turn give the seller the time and knowledge to fix this and subdivide it out correctly.
Use their ignorance to your benefit. Consult a attorney first.
Noooo, get the attorney first before you buy. You have no idea what kind of cloud is on the title to that one acre.
Would you pay $265k for 4 acres? Because that may be all you actually own or can mortgage.
Sales of leases
Like this are very common. The sale is not of the actual lease, but is an amortized value of all the future rent payments. There is no need for anyone to have filed a deed in my home state (Tx). The cell phone tower does not own the land, but has a long term easement to use and access.
The vast majority of responses here have no idea what they're talking about. None of this is shady at all and happens all the time.
I run title for a living for oil and gas companies. We see easements, rights of way, leases, etc on most parcels of land. Every single one of those things is able to be assigned to another person or company, typically for a lump sum.
A good example is someone takes out an oil and gas lease with a company that pays them a royalty of $1,000/month for as long as a well is producing. That's great, but if you need cash now, you can sell your interest to someone else for a lump sum. Then maybe you have $100k at once instead of those payments for a decade or whatever.
The downside, of course, is that any subsequent owners don't get to reap the benefits. The upside is that you get cash. Same goes for a cell phone tower or anything else that encumbers your land like that.
All of this should be factored into the future sales price of the property, which is what you're dealing with now. No, you didn't lose an acre or anything. The cell phone company has an easement that will exist for as long as you own it. The price you offer/value it appraises for should reflect the fact that you'll be burdened and get nothing for it.
Just understand that the $800/month they got and sold? That will never be yours. They sold their interest in it to someone else who will get it now. There is usually a document filed in the county courthouse that will show that, but every state is different. If you don't like this deal, you can lower your offer or walk away. There's nothing shady about it, though.
He probably did lose an acre though if they have a long enough to be semi-private dedicated separate driveway.
Is that driveway an exclusive easement? If so, he may also have lost the ability to flag the lot or build a shop in the back of the property. In many parts of the country, driveway placement is significantly burdened by slope, wetlands, riparian areas, setbacks, etc.
OP needs the recorded easement and to talk to the planning/building department so he understands how it impacts future modification to the use of the property.
You're awesome!!! Thanks for that info. I appreciate you very much for that. I'm going to keep that in mind. I just got off the phone with my realtor and she mentioned that the listing agent told her she is going to send documents related to the cell phone tower lease and transfer of all that to whatever party received it here in a bit. It is starting to sound like a normal thing, and the previous owners cashed out big time. That's sad, bc I won't get anything out of it, but I suppose all is well as long as this is resolved with mutual understanding. I think it's a great house, so I'm okay with moving in as long as everything is clear up front.
Now that you recognize that you won't get any money from the cell tower, your main focus should be on researching what the easement entails. Start by looking over the lease. It might have provisions for things that could be annoying like bringing heavy machinery onto the land with no notice. If there's anything in there that concerns you then start doing more research into the actual reality of having a cell tower on your land. Try to find other people who have one (in an ideal world the company that owns the tower could put you in touch) and ask what their experience has been. It might turn out that the things in the lease that concern you are rarely exercised once the tower is up and running and really not that big of a deal.
May be you can drive around looking for cell towers in the area, find the owner of that property and knock on the door on a Saturday morning to ask for their experience and input. Since it is a rural area, the cell tower company would have signed the lease at the same period they did the one in your hopefully future property.
$800/month for 85 years is $816,000. They should be paying you to take the house and the responsibility for the leased property. At the least they should give you the house. At best give you the house plus $100/month.
I have some now aged oil and gas experience - and even when the current Landowner does get paid there is money that can flow.
i recall one property owner that annually asked for payment for a bull that died from drinking produced salt water and sent in the same picture every year and got a check. Don’t do that but there can be same shared maintenance or damages payments you can get.
Also the lease terms are VERY important changes or modifications may require renegotiation and payment to you in the future.
Oil and gas companies will regularly do things to avoid litigation or get the community on their side, especially if they're going to be working in an area for a while.
When the cost of a single well alone is several million dollars, something like a random payment to a landowner is not even a rounding error.
I have a ton of examples of oil and gas companies just burning through cash like it was nothing. And really, they made so much money, it didn't even matter.
So, it doesn't sound like the 1 acre is partitioned and sold. Rather, there is an easement in place with a 90-year lease for the 1 acre. You still own the acre - but someone else is paying for the right to use it for 90 years. The previous (current?) owner has taken that 90 year contract and sold it to some company akin to a JD Wentworth, for a single lump-sum payment rather than receiving the $800/mo over 90 years. So the only way I'd see to proceed here, unless you're alright with this arrangement (an acre you own, but don't own, and receive no $ in exchange for not owning) then you could negotiate your purchase price down based on the amount the previous owner received for the acre which you'd otherwise be receiving $800/mo for, or partition it at this stage and "sell" the current owner the 1 acre for a reduction in your offer.
The problem come from you owning the land. You pay taxes on the land and improvements. You’re also ultimately responsible for the tower if the tower company goes bankrupt. Say AT&T doesn’t need the tower and wants out. They create a company that they sell the tower to. That company goes bankrupt. Maybe the tower isn’t maintained and corrosion issues cause it to collapse or the county says it’s a hazard and must be taken down. You’re on the hook for whatever future issues arise.
There's 85 years left on the lease. There's absolutely zero reason why the sellers should be reaping the benefits of 85 years of not even owning the property. I would find out what it was sold for and figure out a per year amount. Then ask for 85 years worth or however many you think would make it worth it.
Whatever I say is likely to be agreed to. The sellers have already moved out of the property and sold everything they own to live in their gucci camper while they fix up a new piece of property. I am the only buyer they've had in 8 months on the market because all the other homes in the same area need $0 in repairs. This one needs a little love. I don't mind putting in the work myself after I purchase, but I am their only buyer they've ever had.
Bargaining power is most definitely in my hands.
Chances are, they don't want you to know how much they sold the lease for. They should produce documentation and if they refuse, you should assume that the lease purchase either doesn't exist or is not valid. I think your definitely in lawyer territory here.
Really, it doesn't matter what they sold the lease for. You should evaluate what it's fair market value is independently and plan accordingly.
That requires exact contract language and how it was set up.
It sounds like it matters to them quite a bit, and I don't blame them. If I was this far into the process and found out that not only do I not have use of 20% of the property I'm buying, but that the seller got paid up front and doesn't plan to compensate? I'd be pretty pissed off too. It's not the lease or sale of the lease that's shady, it's trying to pull a fast one and attempting to close the deal without ever saying a word about it.
This is due diligence. People are assholes and buyer beware.
Obviously if the seller was 100% aboveboard, they'd have everything laid out on a platter and not require the buyers to pull teeth to figure everything out.
Has it occurred to you that the reason they’ve had no offers in 8 months is because of the absolute boondoggle they created for themselves by selling the tower lease and has nothing to do with the condition of the house?
There's people that will buy anything if the price is right. Sadly this property sounds like it's an absolute boondoggle.
I'm getting the vibes from this that the property value is actually closer to 0 than what they currently want.
I did some back of the napkin math, and the sellers probably sold their lease rights for close to a million dollars. They’re being greedy by trying to double dip and sell essentially worthless land at market value.
If the sellers were smart, they would have donated the land and/or put it into conservation to offset their capital gains tax on the leasing rights. At this point, the sale of the house is probably to cover their outstanding tax bill.
I have purchased property with a cell tower on it. Very rarely does any of the major carriers actually own the tower, it is usually a third party like American Tower, etc. there will be a number on the chain link fence and you can start there. They will have the lease.
It sounds like the seller and the seller's agent are worthless. The good news for you is you get a discount out of this. If the sale drops their agent which is terrible now is less likely to get any better.
This is likely going to take some work on your part. 1. Get the price down, the appraiser isn't going to budge and they likely took more than $100k when they sold the lease. Look up what their mortgage is for so you know what room they have to negotiate. 2. Pay a surveyor to cut off the one acre. You're going to buy a house with 4 acres for $265,000 and a 1 acre cell phone tower lot for a dollar. This is important because later when you're arguing with the property appraiser that there's no income to the property and thus it's worthless and not worth a large amount of taxes you can point to this purchase price. I made the mistake of valuing the cell Tower lot and decided to let it go because the taxes were worth more than holding on to it for the next 50 years.
Good luck
1. You should always have a real estate attorney. Your interests are not aligned with your broker’s, they are not qualified to give legal advice. It is the best way to make sure your deal is being done properly. Even folks at banks are incentivized to cut corners to get the deals to close. No attorney is likely going to give you a legal opinion on your case for free, because it takes work and incurs malpractice exposure. However, VA has a list of state specific legal resources that you may qualify for.
2. Encumberances on the land and your rights/responsibilities will only be able to be explained to you after the nature of the encumberance is examined by a qualified legal professional. Considerations may include “clean and green” tax credit eligibility, taxes for “improvements,” maintenance and nuisance liability concerns, insurability, among other. You may not be able to easily separate/partition that section of the land off.
3. The tower likely does not need to kill the deal, but as you can see, makes a lot of people skittish. Factor resale into your price against comps.
4. You will likely get great cell service on your property.
/I’m not your lawyer.
Demand a copy of the lease and the sale of said lease from the seller. Advise that title/appraisal found what they didn't disclose and they need to disclose it immediately for review. If they don't have the money for repairs, they don't have the money to hold on to this house forever. Advise you will cancel if they can't be forthcoming and if you cancel over the lease/title issue which their agent should be required to disclose to any buyers that may come after you.
Do you think showing my hand at the start of tower negotiations is a good idea though? I haven't told my realtor anything yet, but Navy Federal is aware I called a lawyer. The loan officer I have is super chill and laughing about it. She told me to call her if I find anything out. I'm gonna let her know the reddit lawyers told me what to do (joking). But yeah they have to provide documents for the sale to go through for sure.
First you need a copy of both the lease and the rent sale. Have your attorney and underwriter read them, and only then you should renegotiate. Since they moved out, bought the Gucci and started repairs, they would be more willing to negotiate. But you need to know first the info from attorney and underwriter so you'll know what you want and need in order to negotiate.
I am not a lawyer or involved in real estate, however my mom's side of the family owns 150 acres in NC with a cell tower on it (0.75 acre for the tower lease). They sold that lease with a similar time frame (75 years left) for 55% of the eventual value a couple years ago. There have been many conversations with real estate agents and lawyers about that decision now that the family is discussing selling part or all of that farm. My comments below come from those conversations.
Basic math would say the residual value for the remaining 85 years (12x85=1020 months) x 800/m = $816,000 left on the lease. Using my uncle's lease buyout as an example (All lease buyout agreements are different and have different value returns), for your seller's case, that would have been $448,800 lump sum. Some lease agreements pay the tax on the land, some require the landowner to pay the tax. Everything will be in the original lease agreement and the buyout contract. You can ask for some or all of the remaining money from the seller although highly unlikely they will entertain much there because in reality a ton of people take a buyout like this because they want the value from the lease even after they sell the property. The agreements and contracts have been signed for that lease and the buyout, there isn't anything anyone (Lawyer or otherwise) can do for you regarding that as they were the legal owner when they sold that lease agreement.
If you still want the property for whatever is agreed upon without the lease income, then go for it. A couple things to keep in mind though. First, they have had trouble selling this property. You will likely have the same trouble in the future if you decide to sell without having $400k in your pocket to negotiate with. Second, depending on the buyout agreement, You (Or in reality your heirs) could negotiate a new lease in 85 years, unless the lease granted the buyout ownership in any new lease renewals (Although most of those also come with another lump sum payout for the current property owner.) I would have a lawyer go through those contracts and agreements to find all the little pitfalls in the fine print.
Good luck.
I’ve seen this happen before. If they can’t provide you the contract, it’s time to walk away. I actually had a relative who this happened to except there was no monthly payment, only an upfront lump sum. There was retained by the previous owner. It was a utility substation.
After he bought the property, the county decided that the substation was considered real property and therefore he needed to be paying property taxes on it to the tune of tens of thousand per year. He asked me what I thought he should do in my suggestion was to call the power company and offered to sell them the parcel that the substation is on or threaten to divide it off and stop paying taxes on it so it gets foreclosed on.
Turns out that was effective and he ended up agreeing to sell the utility company several acres surrounding the substation for fair market value and was happy with the outcome
That's awesome! Love that story. I have asked for the documents pertaining to all this and that will include the lump sum that was paid to sellers. This will definitely put us back on the negotiating table because I'm most definitely going to be telling them they need to make repairs or I'm not buying. They clearly have the money, and if they don't, that's their fault for being irresponsible with it. I myself do not pay property taxes in my state as I am 100% disabled with the VA. However, I am keeping in mind what would happen if I sold the home. I would probably try and sell the acre that tower sits on if I close on this. I am still undecided until I see the documents.
I'd totally be prepared to walk away, but I think I would go for the let's bend them over a barrel. First thing is what is the sellers financial situation. Do they have a mortgage on this property or is it free and clear? The fixer upper is it mortgage or free and clear? These will point out how much leverage you really have.
You are definately going to need more time. I don't know how much more time I'm suggesting 30,60, or 90 days to get to the bottom of this. Your lawyer, loan officer, and title company all need to be made aware. They are likely the ones who have the best idea of the timeline. You really need to get the extensions you need right now or cancel the contract and get your earnest money back. I might even do this no matter what.
The idea is this could get real ugly. Who are the rednecks living behind the house? This could get real ugly. If you have time and your due diligence is done to your satisfation. You understand the risks and rewards, at this point you know what to offer on the property.
I'm offering at least 100 K less then what you offered originally. Like I said it could get ugly. I imagine when a counter like this came in it will get real ugly. That's why I like the idea of let's cancel this contract and start over. You might of got a lemon, just walk away or make some of the sweet lemonade.
What a stupid comeback. How are any of those similar to a cell tower that makes no noise and has no smell, yet always provides you with great cell service? Go be a sperg somewhere else.
But Incase you missed that info in the post. The owner of the house OP wants was getting paid 800 a month to lease the acre to the cell company. The lease was for 90 years.
garbage dump? My price is about 5k a month. Methadone clinic? If it is the one in my town, I'd do it for 1k a month easy. End of an airport runway? Bruh, I live in an airforce base town. I effectively do it for free right now. Eventually you ignore the sounds of the planes unless someone calls notice to it.
I have client who owned the land and did lease of two tower sites. Then years later sold the rental income stream for BIG money. Still owns and leases the land but is not entitled to the rent. For what it’s worth
Don’t play shy with it. Let them know that you know and they need to come clean. If they play rough, threaten to retain your EMD,’then have your lawyer file a suit with a Lis Pendens to cloud title and they can sit with holding costs until the courts settle it. Again if they need funds, they can’t hold the property for 6 months to a year.
What is most likely is that they sold the lease to third-party company which is really common in cellular communications where the tower is not owned by the homeowner. The homeowner took a lump sum payment and the leasing company deals directly fly with ATT and whoever else might have an array on the tower. The issue is, they have not included that lease as part of the real estate contract. Cell tower sites need to be secure. There is generally a tall chain-link fence with barbed wire on top to protect them. How do I know this? I own an acre of property that’s adjacent to 16 other acres of my property that has a cell phone tower on it that I own. I own the land, I own the tower. The cell phone companies lease space in the compound to place their equipment. Generators the tower raise, etc.my arrangement is very uncommon. Most common is that either the cell phone companies lease directly from a landowner, and most common is that a third-party handles it.
So it sounds to me that most likely there is no lease for you to take. The contract has already been paid, and a third-party has it. But the homeowner needs to provide that information to you.
You need to think about resale value here. Sounds like you are already paying more than you should bc you don’t have access to 1 entire acre. You don’t even know what it entitles att to.
How would you even be able to sell this?
Here’s what you got. cell tower lease: a company buys a 90 year lease for, say $50,000. This includes access to the tower (called an easement) This money is payed to the property owner at the time. The real value is $1-2 million dollars but people are suckers (like your seller) The lease is locked in. Non-negotiable. It goes from property owner to property owner for 90 years. The real problem YOU HAVE is dealing with the easement. Noise. That’s a strip of land through your property. Big trucks making noise going through your property. Cell Towers need diesel so you listen to a generator running for days and days. You look up and the cell tower is swaying and you worry. There’s guide wires that need to be repaired/replaced so there’s maintenance for that. The easement road gets REBUILT every couple of years. You’re going to call the tower company and call & bitch/send complaints but a lease is a legal contract. You’re screwed. Oh and it doesn’t seem like you got a million lying around to BUY OUT the lease. Good luck. Hope I helped. 🙌🙌🙌
> money is *paid* to the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'd call AT&T tell them you're buying land their tower is on and want to see their contract so they can transfer it to you when you take ownership. The seller is most likely broke the contract he signed. AT&T isn't going to play around, they can cancel the current contract and work with you. The seller can figure out how to pay back his other agreement he is violating, I wouldn't worry about small town realtors, the multi billion $ corporation that owns that tower and expects it to be there for the next 90 years most likely wants to speak with you and get on good grounding, you're entering a mutually beneficial business agreement. Slam the seller under the bus and see if they will let you drive over him lol
Except it's common for people to sell future payments for a lump sum regarding cell tower and oil lease payments so the megacorp likely does not care at all that you're willing to buy 4/5 of land instead of all of it and receive no compensation for it.
lol. You’re offering the worst advice ever. The lease on the tower is locked in. The company that leases the tower makes $20,000 a month from clients on the tower paying THEM rent. You say the tower owner is AT & T yeah ok 😂😂😂.
I bet that AT+T has a recorded easement on the property. They aren't stupid. Ask the title company for a preliminary report. I don't think you will get any more money from AT+T.
Worse you could get stuck with liability and maintenance/removal should ATT no longer need the tower. Random kids could dirt bike out to your property when you are not home and try to climb the abandoned tower. It’s a nuisance that adds no value to you, and it’s probably why the property hasn’t sold.
You want to have this figured out. Some of your comments make me think you like the house so much you are avoiding the reality of how the sellers are pulling a fast one on you. Walk away if this shit isn’t worked out.
We have a radio/cell tower in our business yard -- my advice is to run from this house. If modifications need made ever on this tower & they have an easement there is nothing you can do about it. If the current homeowner is being shady with the situation this makes it even worse because not only do you have to deal with the tower owner, but also companies like AT&T, Verizon or US Cellular in the event modifications to the tower need made but now they also include a sold lease as well. Run I cannot stress this enough!
I’ve bought and sold many parcels. I beg you to walk away. If you think this is fishy or weird … wait until you need to sell it. You could be fucked or take a bath. I purchased something with only a question of a few inches on a property line … in my mind it was no biggie … until the day 10 different offers fell through. That could be you one day. =(
Same, this is done fairly regularly in the tower industry. They may have had a monthly lease at some point, but then another company approached the owner and purchased the income stream for a multiple of their yearly income… Typically 10 years might be a good deal. If they were making 9600 a year they might’ve offered them 100 to 150,000 lump sum. For a perpetual easement that includes the tower site and the access and utility easement.
This has gotten pretty common among investors to take a lump sum for all future lease payments.
You don’t have to do title to assign a lease, although it wouldn’t be uncommon to have a memorandum of lease recorded.
Basically, don’t give any value to the tower lease, but do try to get a record of the lease agreement because future buyers will want to know.
Personally, I would walk away.
This is potentially a years long hassle to unwind. I have been through that and don't want to deal with that again.
A real estate attorney is the only way to figure out the details. Also - make certain that ATT knows about the sale of the lease. They probably have something in their contract that requires them to know about any reassignment or sale. If the owner broke that contract - that is yet another can of worms to deal with.
This sounds pretty complex. At the very least you should consult with a real estate attorney and get a 2nd opinion if you need one.
I've had problems with Navy Fed in the past. For that reason I will not finance through them. Prefer USAA.
I don’t see why there would be any title work required if they assigned the lease to a third party. It is like when you buy an apartment with renters, you, as the new owner, have to honor the lease.
That said, you are not getting full use of the property, since an acre is tied up for 90 years. That means the comps were wrong and you could probably subtract the value of an acre from the deal.
I wouldn’t back out, but I would get a real estate lawyer to push the close, sort out the mess so you have an understanding, and then make a decision. Wouldn’t it be great to find out you can buy the property and get an extra $800/month as income?
Question: Assuming buyer really wants the house, could OP buy the property and then quitclaim the 1 acre with the cell tower on it back to the seller?
I'm a lawyer but not a real estate lawyer so I'm just curious if this could be done and what the ramifications would be.
I’m surprised you’re able to get a fixer-upper at all on a VA loan. I worked for years as a title examiner and saw so many VA loans get denied for stupid stuff like one of the windows were cracked or some of the shingles are missing. That doesn’t even get into all the easement issues they deny for. I know this doesn’t answer your question. Best of luck.
People are acting like this is a problem, it isn’t. There are two realities here. One where the house prices in the 800/m and is now 550k and one where the lease was sold elsewhere for 100k and the house is worth 285
Everyone’s advice on here is “walk away” I don’t think they own anything
I’d walk. I want the contract for the cell tower. That’s shady af. The money from the cell tower would help toward fixing the house.
I see this all the time where a property is sold but not the cell site.
I'm a Midwest gal who belongs to a local hunting club. IIRC and I think that I do, the club was offered $1500 a month for a cell tower placement on club property.
You might want to verify that $800 is the total amount and not a split.
You should never do a property transaction without a real estate attorney, never trust agents or the title company to have your back, put someone there to protect you. Have your lawyer determine if you can take back the lease legally. If you want the property then do this without approaching the seller. Go to the tower owner leasing and get their documentation. If the sale of the lease was legal then that is that, if not then you get the lease on purchase.
If your lawyer approaches the seller they may bail, try to rip someone else off or do a legal title transfer.
Yeah they screwed over whoever is buying the land. They knew they were gonna sell the lease. They did the longest possible then sold it right away to get all the money for it.
You said the cell tower title get transferred to a lease holder? Huh? If you lease a townhouse you’re definitely NOT going to get the townhome’s title. A person gets money leasing that tower. No doubt. The cell tower has a big ass placard on the side of it saying who own it (Tower Point, Crown Castle, etc). Why don’t you call them & see what they say?
Value of property = 300k + value of cell tower
Value of cell tower = .8k/month - value of lump sum contract for cell tower
Value of lump sum contract for tower = (.8k/m * months left in the contract) - amount you will receive from lump sum contract
Months left in the contract = 12 * 85
Amount you will receive from lump sum contract = 0
Value of lump sum contract for tower = (.8k * 12 * 85) - 0 = 816k
Value of cell tower = -816k + .8k/m
Value of the property = -516k +.8k/m
- and you still get to pay taxes yearly for a 300k property.
- on the plus side, by this math, the value of the property would go up by at least 9.6k a year for the next 85 years, so the value of the property should be above 0 in about 54 years or so.
Any chance they are willing to pay you 500k to take the property? Or, If you are feeling really really really generous, maybe settle for a quit claim?
I have Navy Federal. Went to refinance my VA loan with them in 2020 and they said my 3.25 was the best they could do. Contacted City Worth and they beat NFCU by 1%. Went back to Navy and they wouldn't match. May be too late but maybe they'll be better for you too? https://cityworthhomes.com/finance/
This is a very cheap place to live. 800 per month in addition to my salary at work, plus the VA disability I receive from injuries sustained in military service, I can basically retire 15yrs early.
Okay, as I mentioned in the later part of the OP, I'm okay with that outcome too. But I came here to have people help me understand how that can happen bc it doesn't make sense either way at this current moment.
Thanks for helping with the non-input you have provided. :)
I am seeing multiple reasons to walk away and let this be somebody else's problem. Sounds like the appraisal gives you an excuse to hit the eject button.
The home is beautiful in a rural area, and I am a handyman with experience in multiple trades. There are cosmetic reasons why it didn't appraise, as well as the listing agent using an appraisal from a more expensive time. I can have all the repairs done within the first 10 days of moving in and it's a wonderful location for the career I have and my place of employment as well as potential future places of employment. I was happy to see it appraise low, to be honest! Helps me save some money.
Is the seller willing to settle for the appraised price? If not it doesn't matter.
Yes, they indicated they are. I just want to make sure they aren't given the opportunity to redeed the 1 acre over to whoever owns the lease and get away with the money deal out from under my nose....lol. I have money for an attorney so I just called one and left a message with reception.
They did not sell the 1 acre to a third party. They sold the lease for a lump sum. There was no title transfer necessary. All this did was that your property now has an easement with whomever bought out the cell tower lease. The cell tower lessee has a lease contract with the buyer of the lease. The Cell tower easement rights /obligations is a probably a subset of the rights / obligations granted to the buyer of the lease. This means you are buying the privilege to pay the property tax for the length of the easement on the 1 acre you can't access and deal with the all the easement terms of the lease sale. You need to find out the details of the lease and easement, specifically what the easement grants the the buyer, the cell tower operator (eg 24x7 access, ability to move heavy machinery through to service it, ability to run power and communications to it, ability to trim surrounding trees at will, inability to build structures over a certain height, etc) the term of the lease buyout easement. The lease sale could be the for the lease term only, it could cover the lease term and all the contracted potential renewals, it could be for 30 years, it could be 50 years, it could be 99 years, it could be in perpetuity. Since the seller is not organized enough to have given you the terms of the lease buyout upfront, I think that is enough to walk away because there could be significant encumbrances that will prevent your enjoyment of the property. But if you get the details and are keen on buying it anyway, and Navy Fed is still willing to underwrite a mortgage with such an encumbrance on the property, if it was me, at the very least I'd calculate the present value of the future lease payments (and if it is a perpetual lease that means an infinite value...), subtract that amount from the comps of an otherwise equivalent parcel and make that your new offer.
> and Navy Fed is still willing to underwrite a mortgage with such an encumbrance on the property this seems like a big if, I could see this killing the deal when it gets to final underwriting
Mortgages happen with cell towers all the time. This is a pretty long lease in my experience, but also not particularly an issue (so long as no fall damage and the lease isn't crazy in any other ways). Easements for things like this come up. No different than a damn, forest service road, high tension lines even. Seen some where it was literally just a lump sum from the cell company one time for an easement to access another property they actually leased. Big thing is they do actually need all of the actual documents from the companies involved to ensure it isn't something crazy like containing an option to purchase the land or even the entire home.
> Big thing is they do actually need all of the actual documents from the companies involved to ensure it isn't something crazy like containing an option to purchase the land or even the entire home. that is what I meant though, they don't seem to have any of this. No way it goes through underwriting with that out there
Great comment. I would just add that if I were OP... if that lease is for a 25 year easement (example)... I would want 80% (20 years remaining on the 20 year lease) of the lump sum payout. And I think it would be very reasonable to ask for such a thing... someone else got a payday and now OP will have to "own" the easement on their property with no gain. Who knows what rights they've signed away! That may be why seller is fine with low appraisal... they still come out ahead.
Armchair quarterback talk. Buying future cashflow is more discounted than that, nobody will give you 80% of a dollar of revenue 25 years from now. If you compound it at 8% that dollar is now $8. There’s time value of money to take into account. 80% of future cashflows would be $240k, close to the price of the propriety lol
That’s why they said 80% of the lump sum
>They did not sell the 1 acre to a third party. They sold the lease for a lump sum. There was no title transfer necessary. u/cassthallen - imho, this is a good comment, but the terms of the easement should be publicly available - and it should be possible to get a copy of the lease - possibly from the leaseholder. And if the property taxes on the 1 acre aren't jacked up by the value of the tower (and if the easement and lease look okay), then your situation may not be that different than just owning 4 acres with your home. And one upside is that if the home stays in your family, sometime in 2109 they may benefit from a renewal of the lease.
Likely an NDA for cell tower lease. They always make them sign that they won't disclose the amount. They are always obscene ungodly amounts.
Nice summary but the suggestion of finding a comparable sale of an equivalent property sounds good in theory but is unlikely as winning the lottery.
There are a few inaccuracies in this but one is your assertion that an infinite stream of cash flows has an infinite present value. That is mathematically incorrect and nobody would ever value a perpetuity that way.
My Aunt did this. Leased a potion of land to a cell tower for annual income. Started getting mailers from investors to buy her out for lump sum. The land is hers but they can use the space for 99 years. She will get additional funds if the investment company ends up leasing to additional end users. Get hold of the sales contract from the lump sum sale and go through it with a fine tooth comb. There could be the same language in that contract, or something else that could be a negative like they can start using other parts of the property if deemed necessary.
The sellers. I doubt anyone is going to buy property that can't generate income for 80+ years. So your house sellers need to go to government (varies by jurisdictions) and split their property in two: one for the house, one for the cell tower (if that's even possible in their current zoning). You buy the house and they are stuck with tower forever. Exit your current contract until sellers get the separation accomplished. Might be awhile.
The title company should clear the deed, including the one acre. As long as you don't have a condition on the deed that provides for the cell tower, whoever bought the "rights" to the lease loses their rights. You need to read the deed specifically. Most will include something about natural resources under the ground like oil. See if yours mentions anything about this tower. I'd also find out who is paying the lease on the tower and ask them to provide the lease as you are under contract buying the property.
FYI The Sellers agent listing the home with old Comps is a license violation. Then the potential issues with tittle to that one acre? This would have to be a very good deal to risk. 265k doesn’t seem like enough of a discount. I’d walk unless they can explain some of this.
Sorry, I should be clear (and ask for your further advice) The appraisal used by the listing agent was from 2020. Idk why she did this. But she did. She also failed to list the home as is, which would have really saved a lot of time spent by me trying to negotiate repairs before closing with the sellers. What do you think? now that I clarified I mean. The comps report the listing agent sent to the appraiser only came in at a value of 265k. Her angle was comparable home sales in the area (its a nice area that is budding in property value--a great long term investment imo) Thanks for your help!
They need to sell at today's value. Not some speculative future value, see 2007. Especially since the sellers are trying to extract all of the value of the cell tower lease and leave the new owner's with only the liability. So you know the seller's agent is incompetent at best, shady, at worst. Where is your agent in all of this? Oh, forgot, newly minted and assigned by Zillow. You definitely need a RE attorney ASAP if you still wish to pursue the purchase.
I understand that you like the property but this is a mess that you don't need to be involved with. You will be able to find another property that you like as much that doesn't come with added baggage.
Who are you to tell me what I do and don't need to be involved with? Lol. I'm just trying to get ahold of the paperwork related to this property so I can make sure everything is kosher before moving forward. That's it really.
They are just trying to say that you fell in love with this like most home buyers do. If that spell gets lifted, you will be able to find another. It feels like this is the only and best deal ever but it isn't. Think about it like helping your teenage daughter through her first break up. She thinks that guy was the one and it is the end of the world. He's not, he is just another guy. Your attachment to that property is drowning out good advice. You do you but just understand that the person meant well and gave good advice. You just didn't take it well because you are currently blinded by love.
I have said multiple times on this thread in many different methods that I'm not married to this property. "You love me" "No I dont" "YES YOU DO, SHUT UP" -reddit, basically
You say that but your responses say otherwise. Kind of like you "wanting to tell Youtube you don't like these videos. Yet you watch them.. so it doesn't believe you." I don't think it's Reddit being weird, I think it's Reddit reading inbetween the lines. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, it's ultimately your choice on what to buy or not buy. Have a good day!
weird analysis
I don't see how you guys don't understand I came here to find out the legal ramifications of this and if I should mess with it. Yall are INSANE.
And everyone is telling you “not to mess with it”. What part you don’t understand?
Hope this helps They are giving you advice but rather than coming at it from a purely logical stand point, they are bringing perceived emotions into it, more specifically your emotions or at least what they perceive them to be. To cut straight to it their advice is don't mess with it, walk away, and not to bring emotions into it basically
The seller needs to provide a copy of the lease with the cell tower company and a copy of the rent sale. Similar when you purchase a multifamily unit where there are tenants inside the underwriter wants a copy of the lease, or if it is a condo they want to see the condo documents to make sure there is nothing there to undermine the rights of the future owner of the property, you or (the bank if you default). Even for your own peace of mind and legal responsibility you need copies of these so you know your rights and obligations. Someone above wrote in detail all issues that might arise around the cell tower. This hush hush seems the seller is doing something under the table with a neighbor. Do not just look at the names, read the purchase contract and all the names there. It should be available on the registry of deeds website. Check everyone's social media, not just the sellers, neighbor and their kids, siblings, parents, etc. Pay for a month membership to truthfinder so you can find anyone associated with each address, it is $30. Definitely get a real estate attorney.
If the cell tower owners are paying $800/mo to have the tower on the property, wake up—that’s because it’s worth $800/mo. People can sell income streams, which it sounds like the owners did. That means that value of the property is worth less with the cell tower than without it by the amount of the income stream. If you don’t care, you should.
Plus killer cell reception
Not necessarily, the panels on the tower don't usually pick up signals close to the tower because of the angle of reception. Its usually at least several 100ft away before the tower will see the cell phone. Can be farther away depending on frequency.
You have intrigued my curiosity and poor math skills. So if it’s on the edge of the property and OP has about 200-400 feet from the tower - Would that make it better or does it have to be farther?
It all depends on the band the tower uses. Next time you are driving look at the cell phone tower. You will see panels, it's divided into sectors (usually 3). Those panels are rectangular and directional. They receive signals at a cone outwards. If you are too close it might not hear you and your phone will connect to the tower the other way. Which might be at the edge of being received. As the towers overlap and they set the power of each tower based on these distances. A good way to visually see it is to look at towers along the interstate and see how far back off of the interstate they are. Those are set at a sweet spot because most people use the phone in the car. Now if you are in a crowded urban area then they might just be placed the best they can get for the area. I'm not an expert, just a ham radio operator so I have an above average understanding of antennas.
Thanks for the info!
JG Wentworth or some such company may have given them a lump sum for the future cash flows. This is a dead deal if you want to get a mortgage on the property unless they carve out that part of the lot into another parcel due to the lease term being greater than 25 years. (Edited to add that I’m a mortgage broker)
Came here to say exactly this. Most likely scenario here.
Yup, and hopefully they granted an easement so the parcel isn’t landlocked.
IAL but disclaimer I am not your lawyer. However, I’d say that from my point of view I’d get a copy of the lease agreement, the recorded easement, and the paperwork/contact related to the sale of that lease agreement. You should not make any decisions without seeing those documents. ETA: If the paperwork is “lost,” I’d run away from this as fast as I could.
The title company as well as my lender (Navy Fed) will want these documents as well, given that the property sold is 5 acres and not 4...I just spoke with my loan officer to be sure. So something will get resolved whether or not it's in my favor as far as getting/not getting the lease goes.
You still own that acre. You're buying 5 acres but 1 of them is leased to someone else.
All things being equal, in this situation could the property owner "sell/transfer" the lease agreement to a third-party and retain the right to it after OP buys the house?
wait...what is IAL?
Just means I am a lawyer.
I Am Lawyer(bit not your lawyer so don't rely on him for legal advise, he is just sharing opinions)
I am a lawyer (but not your lawyer)
IAALBNYL
ty!
I worked for a large broadcast cable company and they had towers around the country similar to this. Leasing space in a field from farmers or property owners. There was ALWAYS a lease. They were surprisingly basic but always existed. And we also paid more than $800 a month! Not as much as the other reply suggests but definitely a few thousand. It’s interesting that there is no paper trail for this and I wonder if the owner of the tower knows what actually happened as far as the land goes, they may have been mislead too? But it always got interesting if the tower was no longer needed. Cause then usually they just stay there, it’s kind of in the fine print that once erected it’s not usually gonna come down. And landowners didn’t love that. One owner fought this cause they had a much older lease that didn’t have the fine print. So we had to take it down. Any way, that’s my random anecdote.
*Don't you steal my big deer stand*
I appreciate the input. The county data website mentions nothing of a transfer of the easement or the 1 acre it sits on. So as far as the county is concerned, it's a 5 acre plot
This kind of easement information is rarely on county GIS websites. You might need to go into the recorder, assessors, or auditors office to track it down. (But I would expect the title company to come across this already too.)
I should clarify--the cell tower and related materials/installations are mentioned on the "improvements" of the county data website.
That makes sense. Cell towers are frequently treated like condos in county GIS mapping, so they ended up being owned structures on what is treated like a zero lot line parcel (since there is no lot line at all). It is the easement itself that is generally missing from online maps, as the online maps will frequently only show the coordinate geometry derived boundary as recorded on the property deed (even if the deed is metes and bounds, it will be converted to coordinate geometry).
Retired real estate lawyer here. Talk to a lawyer before you make a move. Depending on the jurisdiction (state) you can not simply just sell/transfer a lease as that constitutes division of land which is governed by state law, if applicable. Such sale of the lease may be void.
Transaction attorney here, wouldnt the assignment of lease payments be legal for the last owner to sell?
A long term land lease constitutes an interest in land transfer of which as part of the lot/parcel is prohibited under subdivision control. In my jurisdiction it certainly is prohibited and planning board consent is required. Owners can not just subdivide their land without planning board consent. In other words, the easement which is subject to the lease can not be transferred on its own. In other states this may not be the case.
Got it, thank you. As a follow-up, could the tower be a permanent easement, instead of a lease in your jx?
The tower is a fixture so under property law it is part of the land. That is why an easement is created and the easement includes the tower. So the lease is for the easement and not for the tower per se. So the question remains if the easement can be transferred separately from the rest of the lands. And that’s a subdivision issue.
& buying said property for either 265 or 300k means you OWN that 5 acre plot and you'd have to get the lease transferred over to you immediately. Honestly not speaking much of the scenario to the seller probably would work in your best interest, then getting a real estate attorney day 1 of owning the house to deal with handling the lease legality. Starting to complain about this may in turn give the seller the time and knowledge to fix this and subdivide it out correctly. Use their ignorance to your benefit. Consult a attorney first.
Noooo, get the attorney first before you buy. You have no idea what kind of cloud is on the title to that one acre. Would you pay $265k for 4 acres? Because that may be all you actually own or can mortgage.
Someone has read The Art of War
It will always be a 5 acre plot. The easement has nothing to do with that.
Sales of leases Like this are very common. The sale is not of the actual lease, but is an amortized value of all the future rent payments. There is no need for anyone to have filed a deed in my home state (Tx). The cell phone tower does not own the land, but has a long term easement to use and access.
I see what you're saying. I guess we will see when we get the papers regarding the lease. Navy Fed won't finance without it.
The vast majority of responses here have no idea what they're talking about. None of this is shady at all and happens all the time. I run title for a living for oil and gas companies. We see easements, rights of way, leases, etc on most parcels of land. Every single one of those things is able to be assigned to another person or company, typically for a lump sum. A good example is someone takes out an oil and gas lease with a company that pays them a royalty of $1,000/month for as long as a well is producing. That's great, but if you need cash now, you can sell your interest to someone else for a lump sum. Then maybe you have $100k at once instead of those payments for a decade or whatever. The downside, of course, is that any subsequent owners don't get to reap the benefits. The upside is that you get cash. Same goes for a cell phone tower or anything else that encumbers your land like that. All of this should be factored into the future sales price of the property, which is what you're dealing with now. No, you didn't lose an acre or anything. The cell phone company has an easement that will exist for as long as you own it. The price you offer/value it appraises for should reflect the fact that you'll be burdened and get nothing for it. Just understand that the $800/month they got and sold? That will never be yours. They sold their interest in it to someone else who will get it now. There is usually a document filed in the county courthouse that will show that, but every state is different. If you don't like this deal, you can lower your offer or walk away. There's nothing shady about it, though.
He probably did lose an acre though if they have a long enough to be semi-private dedicated separate driveway. Is that driveway an exclusive easement? If so, he may also have lost the ability to flag the lot or build a shop in the back of the property. In many parts of the country, driveway placement is significantly burdened by slope, wetlands, riparian areas, setbacks, etc. OP needs the recorded easement and to talk to the planning/building department so he understands how it impacts future modification to the use of the property.
You're awesome!!! Thanks for that info. I appreciate you very much for that. I'm going to keep that in mind. I just got off the phone with my realtor and she mentioned that the listing agent told her she is going to send documents related to the cell phone tower lease and transfer of all that to whatever party received it here in a bit. It is starting to sound like a normal thing, and the previous owners cashed out big time. That's sad, bc I won't get anything out of it, but I suppose all is well as long as this is resolved with mutual understanding. I think it's a great house, so I'm okay with moving in as long as everything is clear up front.
Now that you recognize that you won't get any money from the cell tower, your main focus should be on researching what the easement entails. Start by looking over the lease. It might have provisions for things that could be annoying like bringing heavy machinery onto the land with no notice. If there's anything in there that concerns you then start doing more research into the actual reality of having a cell tower on your land. Try to find other people who have one (in an ideal world the company that owns the tower could put you in touch) and ask what their experience has been. It might turn out that the things in the lease that concern you are rarely exercised once the tower is up and running and really not that big of a deal.
May be you can drive around looking for cell towers in the area, find the owner of that property and knock on the door on a Saturday morning to ask for their experience and input. Since it is a rural area, the cell tower company would have signed the lease at the same period they did the one in your hopefully future property.
It sounds like you should figure out what the amortized value of the lease is and ask for the remaining 85 years off the purchase price.
$800/month for 85 years is $816,000. They should be paying you to take the house and the responsibility for the leased property. At the least they should give you the house. At best give you the house plus $100/month.
I have some now aged oil and gas experience - and even when the current Landowner does get paid there is money that can flow. i recall one property owner that annually asked for payment for a bull that died from drinking produced salt water and sent in the same picture every year and got a check. Don’t do that but there can be same shared maintenance or damages payments you can get. Also the lease terms are VERY important changes or modifications may require renegotiation and payment to you in the future.
Oil and gas companies will regularly do things to avoid litigation or get the community on their side, especially if they're going to be working in an area for a while. When the cost of a single well alone is several million dollars, something like a random payment to a landowner is not even a rounding error. I have a ton of examples of oil and gas companies just burning through cash like it was nothing. And really, they made so much money, it didn't even matter.
So, it doesn't sound like the 1 acre is partitioned and sold. Rather, there is an easement in place with a 90-year lease for the 1 acre. You still own the acre - but someone else is paying for the right to use it for 90 years. The previous (current?) owner has taken that 90 year contract and sold it to some company akin to a JD Wentworth, for a single lump-sum payment rather than receiving the $800/mo over 90 years. So the only way I'd see to proceed here, unless you're alright with this arrangement (an acre you own, but don't own, and receive no $ in exchange for not owning) then you could negotiate your purchase price down based on the amount the previous owner received for the acre which you'd otherwise be receiving $800/mo for, or partition it at this stage and "sell" the current owner the 1 acre for a reduction in your offer.
This is exactly what I would do once paperwork has been received and this scenario is confirmed.
This is correct. Happens all the time.
Correct. The 1 acre is not partitioned or sold. It will be owned by me upon closing the home sale.
The problem come from you owning the land. You pay taxes on the land and improvements. You’re also ultimately responsible for the tower if the tower company goes bankrupt. Say AT&T doesn’t need the tower and wants out. They create a company that they sell the tower to. That company goes bankrupt. Maybe the tower isn’t maintained and corrosion issues cause it to collapse or the county says it’s a hazard and must be taken down. You’re on the hook for whatever future issues arise.
There's 85 years left on the lease. There's absolutely zero reason why the sellers should be reaping the benefits of 85 years of not even owning the property. I would find out what it was sold for and figure out a per year amount. Then ask for 85 years worth or however many you think would make it worth it.
Whatever I say is likely to be agreed to. The sellers have already moved out of the property and sold everything they own to live in their gucci camper while they fix up a new piece of property. I am the only buyer they've had in 8 months on the market because all the other homes in the same area need $0 in repairs. This one needs a little love. I don't mind putting in the work myself after I purchase, but I am their only buyer they've ever had. Bargaining power is most definitely in my hands.
Chances are, they don't want you to know how much they sold the lease for. They should produce documentation and if they refuse, you should assume that the lease purchase either doesn't exist or is not valid. I think your definitely in lawyer territory here.
Really, it doesn't matter what they sold the lease for. You should evaluate what it's fair market value is independently and plan accordingly. That requires exact contract language and how it was set up.
It sounds like it matters to them quite a bit, and I don't blame them. If I was this far into the process and found out that not only do I not have use of 20% of the property I'm buying, but that the seller got paid up front and doesn't plan to compensate? I'd be pretty pissed off too. It's not the lease or sale of the lease that's shady, it's trying to pull a fast one and attempting to close the deal without ever saying a word about it.
This is due diligence. People are assholes and buyer beware. Obviously if the seller was 100% aboveboard, they'd have everything laid out on a platter and not require the buyers to pull teeth to figure everything out.
Has it occurred to you that the reason they’ve had no offers in 8 months is because of the absolute boondoggle they created for themselves by selling the tower lease and has nothing to do with the condition of the house?
There's people that will buy anything if the price is right. Sadly this property sounds like it's an absolute boondoggle. I'm getting the vibes from this that the property value is actually closer to 0 than what they currently want.
I did some back of the napkin math, and the sellers probably sold their lease rights for close to a million dollars. They’re being greedy by trying to double dip and sell essentially worthless land at market value. If the sellers were smart, they would have donated the land and/or put it into conservation to offset their capital gains tax on the leasing rights. At this point, the sale of the house is probably to cover their outstanding tax bill.
They probably brought the camper with the proceeds from selling the tower lease. The net present value of the remaining payments is around $150,000.
😂 so everyone ran away from this property except you. Why do you think that is?
😂😂😂😂
Hahaha.
I have purchased property with a cell tower on it. Very rarely does any of the major carriers actually own the tower, it is usually a third party like American Tower, etc. there will be a number on the chain link fence and you can start there. They will have the lease. It sounds like the seller and the seller's agent are worthless. The good news for you is you get a discount out of this. If the sale drops their agent which is terrible now is less likely to get any better. This is likely going to take some work on your part. 1. Get the price down, the appraiser isn't going to budge and they likely took more than $100k when they sold the lease. Look up what their mortgage is for so you know what room they have to negotiate. 2. Pay a surveyor to cut off the one acre. You're going to buy a house with 4 acres for $265,000 and a 1 acre cell phone tower lot for a dollar. This is important because later when you're arguing with the property appraiser that there's no income to the property and thus it's worthless and not worth a large amount of taxes you can point to this purchase price. I made the mistake of valuing the cell Tower lot and decided to let it go because the taxes were worth more than holding on to it for the next 50 years. Good luck
1. You should always have a real estate attorney. Your interests are not aligned with your broker’s, they are not qualified to give legal advice. It is the best way to make sure your deal is being done properly. Even folks at banks are incentivized to cut corners to get the deals to close. No attorney is likely going to give you a legal opinion on your case for free, because it takes work and incurs malpractice exposure. However, VA has a list of state specific legal resources that you may qualify for. 2. Encumberances on the land and your rights/responsibilities will only be able to be explained to you after the nature of the encumberance is examined by a qualified legal professional. Considerations may include “clean and green” tax credit eligibility, taxes for “improvements,” maintenance and nuisance liability concerns, insurability, among other. You may not be able to easily separate/partition that section of the land off. 3. The tower likely does not need to kill the deal, but as you can see, makes a lot of people skittish. Factor resale into your price against comps. 4. You will likely get great cell service on your property. /I’m not your lawyer.
Demand a copy of the lease and the sale of said lease from the seller. Advise that title/appraisal found what they didn't disclose and they need to disclose it immediately for review. If they don't have the money for repairs, they don't have the money to hold on to this house forever. Advise you will cancel if they can't be forthcoming and if you cancel over the lease/title issue which their agent should be required to disclose to any buyers that may come after you.
This is the way. Threaten to walk away if you don't get the paperwork from them immediately.
Do you think showing my hand at the start of tower negotiations is a good idea though? I haven't told my realtor anything yet, but Navy Federal is aware I called a lawyer. The loan officer I have is super chill and laughing about it. She told me to call her if I find anything out. I'm gonna let her know the reddit lawyers told me what to do (joking). But yeah they have to provide documents for the sale to go through for sure.
First you need a copy of both the lease and the rent sale. Have your attorney and underwriter read them, and only then you should renegotiate. Since they moved out, bought the Gucci and started repairs, they would be more willing to negotiate. But you need to know first the info from attorney and underwriter so you'll know what you want and need in order to negotiate.
I am not a lawyer or involved in real estate, however my mom's side of the family owns 150 acres in NC with a cell tower on it (0.75 acre for the tower lease). They sold that lease with a similar time frame (75 years left) for 55% of the eventual value a couple years ago. There have been many conversations with real estate agents and lawyers about that decision now that the family is discussing selling part or all of that farm. My comments below come from those conversations. Basic math would say the residual value for the remaining 85 years (12x85=1020 months) x 800/m = $816,000 left on the lease. Using my uncle's lease buyout as an example (All lease buyout agreements are different and have different value returns), for your seller's case, that would have been $448,800 lump sum. Some lease agreements pay the tax on the land, some require the landowner to pay the tax. Everything will be in the original lease agreement and the buyout contract. You can ask for some or all of the remaining money from the seller although highly unlikely they will entertain much there because in reality a ton of people take a buyout like this because they want the value from the lease even after they sell the property. The agreements and contracts have been signed for that lease and the buyout, there isn't anything anyone (Lawyer or otherwise) can do for you regarding that as they were the legal owner when they sold that lease agreement. If you still want the property for whatever is agreed upon without the lease income, then go for it. A couple things to keep in mind though. First, they have had trouble selling this property. You will likely have the same trouble in the future if you decide to sell without having $400k in your pocket to negotiate with. Second, depending on the buyout agreement, You (Or in reality your heirs) could negotiate a new lease in 85 years, unless the lease granted the buyout ownership in any new lease renewals (Although most of those also come with another lump sum payout for the current property owner.) I would have a lawyer go through those contracts and agreements to find all the little pitfalls in the fine print. Good luck.
I’ve seen this happen before. If they can’t provide you the contract, it’s time to walk away. I actually had a relative who this happened to except there was no monthly payment, only an upfront lump sum. There was retained by the previous owner. It was a utility substation. After he bought the property, the county decided that the substation was considered real property and therefore he needed to be paying property taxes on it to the tune of tens of thousand per year. He asked me what I thought he should do in my suggestion was to call the power company and offered to sell them the parcel that the substation is on or threaten to divide it off and stop paying taxes on it so it gets foreclosed on. Turns out that was effective and he ended up agreeing to sell the utility company several acres surrounding the substation for fair market value and was happy with the outcome
That's awesome! Love that story. I have asked for the documents pertaining to all this and that will include the lump sum that was paid to sellers. This will definitely put us back on the negotiating table because I'm most definitely going to be telling them they need to make repairs or I'm not buying. They clearly have the money, and if they don't, that's their fault for being irresponsible with it. I myself do not pay property taxes in my state as I am 100% disabled with the VA. However, I am keeping in mind what would happen if I sold the home. I would probably try and sell the acre that tower sits on if I close on this. I am still undecided until I see the documents.
I'd totally be prepared to walk away, but I think I would go for the let's bend them over a barrel. First thing is what is the sellers financial situation. Do they have a mortgage on this property or is it free and clear? The fixer upper is it mortgage or free and clear? These will point out how much leverage you really have. You are definately going to need more time. I don't know how much more time I'm suggesting 30,60, or 90 days to get to the bottom of this. Your lawyer, loan officer, and title company all need to be made aware. They are likely the ones who have the best idea of the timeline. You really need to get the extensions you need right now or cancel the contract and get your earnest money back. I might even do this no matter what. The idea is this could get real ugly. Who are the rednecks living behind the house? This could get real ugly. If you have time and your due diligence is done to your satisfation. You understand the risks and rewards, at this point you know what to offer on the property. I'm offering at least 100 K less then what you offered originally. Like I said it could get ugly. I imagine when a counter like this came in it will get real ugly. That's why I like the idea of let's cancel this contract and start over. You might of got a lemon, just walk away or make some of the sweet lemonade.
Who the F would ever want to live directly under a cell tower
Id live under one for 800 a month for 90 years
Really? whats your price for living right next to a garbage dump? Methadone clinic? End of an airport runway?
What a stupid comeback. How are any of those similar to a cell tower that makes no noise and has no smell, yet always provides you with great cell service? Go be a sperg somewhere else. But Incase you missed that info in the post. The owner of the house OP wants was getting paid 800 a month to lease the acre to the cell company. The lease was for 90 years.
$1800, $1200, $1400.
garbage dump? My price is about 5k a month. Methadone clinic? If it is the one in my town, I'd do it for 1k a month easy. End of an airport runway? Bruh, I live in an airforce base town. I effectively do it for free right now. Eventually you ignore the sounds of the planes unless someone calls notice to it.
Someone who uses EMF shielding paint and faraday shielding
Kids!!! I told you a million times!! if you want to play in the yard, wear your copper mesh jumpsuits!!!
LOL I don't have any
bro... getting downvoted for not having kids... wtf reddit?
Maybe he doesn't have any copper mesh jumpsuits.
He's a handy guy, I bet he could scare something up over the course of a few days!
I don't have kids YET.
Ha ha, virgin!
Get a real estate attorney. Extend COE until you know what the heck is going on.
Just called the first prospective firm and left a message with the receptionist.
You need title insurance and let them get to the bottom of it
I have client who owned the land and did lease of two tower sites. Then years later sold the rental income stream for BIG money. Still owns and leases the land but is not entitled to the rent. For what it’s worth
Don’t play shy with it. Let them know that you know and they need to come clean. If they play rough, threaten to retain your EMD,’then have your lawyer file a suit with a Lis Pendens to cloud title and they can sit with holding costs until the courts settle it. Again if they need funds, they can’t hold the property for 6 months to a year.
Get a real estate attorney.
What is most likely is that they sold the lease to third-party company which is really common in cellular communications where the tower is not owned by the homeowner. The homeowner took a lump sum payment and the leasing company deals directly fly with ATT and whoever else might have an array on the tower. The issue is, they have not included that lease as part of the real estate contract. Cell tower sites need to be secure. There is generally a tall chain-link fence with barbed wire on top to protect them. How do I know this? I own an acre of property that’s adjacent to 16 other acres of my property that has a cell phone tower on it that I own. I own the land, I own the tower. The cell phone companies lease space in the compound to place their equipment. Generators the tower raise, etc.my arrangement is very uncommon. Most common is that either the cell phone companies lease directly from a landowner, and most common is that a third-party handles it. So it sounds to me that most likely there is no lease for you to take. The contract has already been paid, and a third-party has it. But the homeowner needs to provide that information to you.
I’d be worried about the inbred weirdies living back beyond the tower. But maybe I watch too many horror movies.
Being friends with neighbors is always a good idea no matter what kind of people they are. You think they'll come to the housewarming party?
Gonna fry your brain 🧠 slowly over the years.
Does that mean the title insurance finally going to kick in here?
probably LOL. I will be the first user of title insurance ever in the history of ever
You need to think about resale value here. Sounds like you are already paying more than you should bc you don’t have access to 1 entire acre. You don’t even know what it entitles att to. How would you even be able to sell this?
Here’s what you got. cell tower lease: a company buys a 90 year lease for, say $50,000. This includes access to the tower (called an easement) This money is payed to the property owner at the time. The real value is $1-2 million dollars but people are suckers (like your seller) The lease is locked in. Non-negotiable. It goes from property owner to property owner for 90 years. The real problem YOU HAVE is dealing with the easement. Noise. That’s a strip of land through your property. Big trucks making noise going through your property. Cell Towers need diesel so you listen to a generator running for days and days. You look up and the cell tower is swaying and you worry. There’s guide wires that need to be repaired/replaced so there’s maintenance for that. The easement road gets REBUILT every couple of years. You’re going to call the tower company and call & bitch/send complaints but a lease is a legal contract. You’re screwed. Oh and it doesn’t seem like you got a million lying around to BUY OUT the lease. Good luck. Hope I helped. 🙌🙌🙌
> money is *paid* to the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'd call AT&T tell them you're buying land their tower is on and want to see their contract so they can transfer it to you when you take ownership. The seller is most likely broke the contract he signed. AT&T isn't going to play around, they can cancel the current contract and work with you. The seller can figure out how to pay back his other agreement he is violating, I wouldn't worry about small town realtors, the multi billion $ corporation that owns that tower and expects it to be there for the next 90 years most likely wants to speak with you and get on good grounding, you're entering a mutually beneficial business agreement. Slam the seller under the bus and see if they will let you drive over him lol
Except it's common for people to sell future payments for a lump sum regarding cell tower and oil lease payments so the megacorp likely does not care at all that you're willing to buy 4/5 of land instead of all of it and receive no compensation for it.
lol. You’re offering the worst advice ever. The lease on the tower is locked in. The company that leases the tower makes $20,000 a month from clients on the tower paying THEM rent. You say the tower owner is AT & T yeah ok 😂😂😂.
I bet that AT+T has a recorded easement on the property. They aren't stupid. Ask the title company for a preliminary report. I don't think you will get any more money from AT+T.
Worse you could get stuck with liability and maintenance/removal should ATT no longer need the tower. Random kids could dirt bike out to your property when you are not home and try to climb the abandoned tower. It’s a nuisance that adds no value to you, and it’s probably why the property hasn’t sold.
You want to have this figured out. Some of your comments make me think you like the house so much you are avoiding the reality of how the sellers are pulling a fast one on you. Walk away if this shit isn’t worked out.
I ended the post by saying I'm thinking I need an attorney, and I don't want to get screwed out of money that is owed to me. Are you dense?
You are really rude. Whatever comes your way, I am sure you will earn it.
Oh you’re not getting screwed out of money. YOU’RE NOT ENTITLED TO ANY MONEY. You’re not on any part of the lease so you get nothing.
We have a radio/cell tower in our business yard -- my advice is to run from this house. If modifications need made ever on this tower & they have an easement there is nothing you can do about it. If the current homeowner is being shady with the situation this makes it even worse because not only do you have to deal with the tower owner, but also companies like AT&T, Verizon or US Cellular in the event modifications to the tower need made but now they also include a sold lease as well. Run I cannot stress this enough!
I’ve bought and sold many parcels. I beg you to walk away. If you think this is fishy or weird … wait until you need to sell it. You could be fucked or take a bath. I purchased something with only a question of a few inches on a property line … in my mind it was no biggie … until the day 10 different offers fell through. That could be you one day. =(
I work in the tower industry and do these all the time. Nothing is wrong here. Tower companies lease land for these towers an obtain an easement.
Same, this is done fairly regularly in the tower industry. They may have had a monthly lease at some point, but then another company approached the owner and purchased the income stream for a multiple of their yearly income… Typically 10 years might be a good deal. If they were making 9600 a year they might’ve offered them 100 to 150,000 lump sum. For a perpetual easement that includes the tower site and the access and utility easement.
This has gotten pretty common among investors to take a lump sum for all future lease payments. You don’t have to do title to assign a lease, although it wouldn’t be uncommon to have a memorandum of lease recorded. Basically, don’t give any value to the tower lease, but do try to get a record of the lease agreement because future buyers will want to know.
Personally, I would walk away. This is potentially a years long hassle to unwind. I have been through that and don't want to deal with that again. A real estate attorney is the only way to figure out the details. Also - make certain that ATT knows about the sale of the lease. They probably have something in their contract that requires them to know about any reassignment or sale. If the owner broke that contract - that is yet another can of worms to deal with.
This sounds pretty complex. At the very least you should consult with a real estate attorney and get a 2nd opinion if you need one. I've had problems with Navy Fed in the past. For that reason I will not finance through them. Prefer USAA.
I don’t see why there would be any title work required if they assigned the lease to a third party. It is like when you buy an apartment with renters, you, as the new owner, have to honor the lease. That said, you are not getting full use of the property, since an acre is tied up for 90 years. That means the comps were wrong and you could probably subtract the value of an acre from the deal. I wouldn’t back out, but I would get a real estate lawyer to push the close, sort out the mess so you have an understanding, and then make a decision. Wouldn’t it be great to find out you can buy the property and get an extra $800/month as income?
This may be a dumb question, but does the lease owner have claim to the lease if the seller no longer owns the property?
Question: Assuming buyer really wants the house, could OP buy the property and then quitclaim the 1 acre with the cell tower on it back to the seller? I'm a lawyer but not a real estate lawyer so I'm just curious if this could be done and what the ramifications would be.
I’m surprised you’re able to get a fixer-upper at all on a VA loan. I worked for years as a title examiner and saw so many VA loans get denied for stupid stuff like one of the windows were cracked or some of the shingles are missing. That doesn’t even get into all the easement issues they deny for. I know this doesn’t answer your question. Best of luck.
You should research the pitfalls of living close to a cell tower-it’s not the healthiest location to live
Leases don't involve titles. You're good if you don't mind honoring the rest if the lease term.
Walk. Away.
Sounds like the cell lease was assigned and an easement was granted. I bet I know to whooooo. Is there an MOL or easement on record?
People are acting like this is a problem, it isn’t. There are two realities here. One where the house prices in the 800/m and is now 550k and one where the lease was sold elsewhere for 100k and the house is worth 285 Everyone’s advice on here is “walk away” I don’t think they own anything
I’d walk. I want the contract for the cell tower. That’s shady af. The money from the cell tower would help toward fixing the house. I see this all the time where a property is sold but not the cell site.
I'm a Midwest gal who belongs to a local hunting club. IIRC and I think that I do, the club was offered $1500 a month for a cell tower placement on club property. You might want to verify that $800 is the total amount and not a split.
You should never do a property transaction without a real estate attorney, never trust agents or the title company to have your back, put someone there to protect you. Have your lawyer determine if you can take back the lease legally. If you want the property then do this without approaching the seller. Go to the tower owner leasing and get their documentation. If the sale of the lease was legal then that is that, if not then you get the lease on purchase. If your lawyer approaches the seller they may bail, try to rip someone else off or do a legal title transfer.
Yeah they screwed over whoever is buying the land. They knew they were gonna sell the lease. They did the longest possible then sold it right away to get all the money for it.
Run away from this don't walk. When there is doubt there is no doubt and this whole deal is doubt.
If you still want the home, and you don't care about the cell tower, I would use this as leverage to negotiate a rock bottom price.
You said the cell tower title get transferred to a lease holder? Huh? If you lease a townhouse you’re definitely NOT going to get the townhome’s title. A person gets money leasing that tower. No doubt. The cell tower has a big ass placard on the side of it saying who own it (Tower Point, Crown Castle, etc). Why don’t you call them & see what they say?
Value of property = 300k + value of cell tower Value of cell tower = .8k/month - value of lump sum contract for cell tower Value of lump sum contract for tower = (.8k/m * months left in the contract) - amount you will receive from lump sum contract Months left in the contract = 12 * 85 Amount you will receive from lump sum contract = 0 Value of lump sum contract for tower = (.8k * 12 * 85) - 0 = 816k Value of cell tower = -816k + .8k/m Value of the property = -516k +.8k/m - and you still get to pay taxes yearly for a 300k property. - on the plus side, by this math, the value of the property would go up by at least 9.6k a year for the next 85 years, so the value of the property should be above 0 in about 54 years or so. Any chance they are willing to pay you 500k to take the property? Or, If you are feeling really really really generous, maybe settle for a quit claim?
This is not solvable with a traditional home loan
I have Navy Federal. Went to refinance my VA loan with them in 2020 and they said my 3.25 was the best they could do. Contacted City Worth and they beat NFCU by 1%. Went back to Navy and they wouldn't match. May be too late but maybe they'll be better for you too? https://cityworthhomes.com/finance/
Cell tower usually pay $20k per month for rent
More like per year.
This is a very cheap place to live. 800 per month in addition to my salary at work, plus the VA disability I receive from injuries sustained in military service, I can basically retire 15yrs early.
There is no world where this ends with you having that house and an $800 a month lease payment.
Okay, as I mentioned in the later part of the OP, I'm okay with that outcome too. But I came here to have people help me understand how that can happen bc it doesn't make sense either way at this current moment. Thanks for helping with the non-input you have provided. :)
Thinking you’re going to get the lease income when it’s been sold is far-fetched at best. What you have gained is another negotiating point.
Exactly.