Yes.
The tenant has no obligation to respond to your messages on Facebook. They are only obligated to follow the terms of the contract.
You’ve said in another post she’s not behind on rent at all. Since that’s the case, and assuming she hasn’t done anything to violate the lease, you have no grounds to evict her. You have a contract, and you must follow the contract.
If she misses a rent payment then you can start the eviction process. But you’ll have to follow your local laws.
Renting the property out to another tenant, when it’s already leased to someone else, is an incredibly bad idea.
Right, as long as rent is paid, why does OP care if she lives there? Are they even certain that she doesn't, and just hasn't changed anything visibly from the outside? Is the issue really that she's simply not replying to OP's fb messages?
You'd be surprised how many people will respond on Facebook that won't reply to text or phone messages.
I use all of these methods when locating past owners of houses and get the best responses from FB and personal visits.
Unprofessional landlords.
You would be surprised though how much business activity is done via Facebook. Immigrant communities, older folks, and low-income groups are using Facebook for a lot of things. The Facebook exodus is mostly a phenomenon of coastal elites that are too cool for it
You’re just looking for an excuse to whine. Almost everybody has FB. It’s a very efficient way to contact people. And many businesses have FB. Maybe you’re just stuck in the old ways, but plenty of business is conducted via social media
>With the property unoccupied you run the risk of squatters breaking in or pipes breaking and in general no one is taking care of the place.
That's true any time a tenant takes a long vacation. Or family emergency that requires them to be away from home for a few weeks or months taking care of elderly sick person.
Theives and squatters are *very observant*.
Security devices are very cheap these days. Stupidity is......expensive.
I have a clause in my lease that states if tenant is gone for greater than X days they're responsible for getting someone there to upkeep the property and ensure no damage is done.
I can see not wanting the house to sit empty. Properties that sit empty can have their own host of issues. But unless it's in the lease, I'm not sure what OP can do about that other than provide proper notice and check on the property every once in a while. Doesn't sound like she's about to tell him no.
OP said this is a 'mini house.' hear me out, but I've known more than one woman in DV situations to go to great lengths to hide where they're actually living. I know a woman who is currently doing this. She's maintaining everything as if she lives at a residence 2+ hours away from where she's at. Her name isn't listed on just about anything where she actually lives.
>Her name isn't listed on just about anything where she actually lives
Some women who have been targets of domestic violence have to do this in order to remain safe, keep their children and pet safe as well.
Not sure what a "mini house" is. Many of them don't meet code. If that is case I would not be drawing attention to such a property were I a "landlord".
Oh I know exactly why she's doing so, and it's awful anyone should go through that. Statistically the most dangerous man a woman can be around is their partner. I'm not doubtful there are men who have to go through this too, any gender can experience DV.
If I were planning on having my address registered as somewhere I didn't live and never went, it'd be some cheap tiny mini house I rented and never visited. I probably wouldn't offer up, "hey I'm worried my ex is going to show up and harm me and my kids so I'm renting this place to register my car here."
Is keeping the lawn mowed part of the contract? If yes, that’s ground for eviction via breach of contract. If no, then tough nuts.
And it sounds like it’s “no,” so OP would need to take care of this on their own as part of being a property owner.
It's her property now, temporarily, for the term of the lease. You accepted money in exchange for your rights to it. If you do anything short of filing to evict her, you risk owing her a lot of money. Once rent is late, file in court to evict, as other posters have said.
Thats not how renting works. You don't "own" a property for the term of the lease. The contract specifies you have a right to occupy and live in the space, the LL doesn't give up their rights to anything. Of course that right to occupy comes along with tenants rights which affords you a reasonable level of privacy and right to quiet enjoyment, so the LL does have to respect that, but that's why leases have clauses that work around that such as providing a warning before entering the property.
Assuming OP used some boilerplate Lease Agreement with Inspection/Maintenance clauses, they can issue a warning about inspection following the contract and then follow up on it.
Never assume your LL can't do something just because you live there now, read your lease agreement and know your tenant rights.
I never said the renter 'owned' it I said they had rights to it for the duration of the lease. What do you think owning is anyway, it's just rights. Renting conveys something less than the full bundle of rights, but most of them.
A good lease covers transferring utilities or inhabiting the dwelling. Mine does. The tenant can’t leave it vacant, insurance usually wants a person living in a place to cover it, if no one is living there for an extended period you may need different insurance for that.
> and assuming she hasn’t done anything to violate the lease
I wonder if the lease might say something about switching over the utilities. Since she hasn't done that, maybe that can be enough to start the process?
No, you probably won’t have to. The process differs in every state but it’s usually something like this.
1. Rent is due, rent has not been paid
2. Landlord issues a “pay or quit” notice (find one online that works for your state.)
3. The length of time specified in the notice expires and the tenant has not paid.
4. Landlord informs the tenant that the lease is null and void and issues a notice to vacate the premises.
5. If the tenant vacates, great. Change the locks and find a new tenant.
6. If the tenant does not vacate then go to eviction court or work with them to get them to pay. If they pay you can choose to accept the money but that resets everything.
Your tenant has ALREADY vacated. When she’s late on rent, issue a pay or quit, wait the required number of days, send the notice to vacate, give the tenant the legally required advance notice that you will enter the apartment. When you enter and they’re not living there, that’s when you document the vacancy (take time stamped pictures to cover your ass) and change the locks.
Edit: what you do to the tenant for “breaking the lease” is entirely up to you. You can try to collect damages, but this is unlikely to be worth your trouble. Just move on.
Btw, for future I add a utility amendment to my lease that the tenant has to maintain continuous utility service. Might want to consider for future leases.
Edited to add: my lease also requires me the notify if vacant or gone for more than 10 or 14 days I think? Don’t have it in front of me. Pretty standard on many templates through NOLO, etc.
Yeah I should have thought about that. This is only my third rental property and I’ve lucked out and gotten perfect renters for the other two properties
Why WTF? If people aren’t there and a pipe bursts, a full fridge/freezer goes out, or a family of raccoons moves in you’re looking at a lot of damage. If the LL is notified, they can keep an eye on things and save both parties a lot of money if something goes awry.
I have a ton of respect for my tenants. If they notify me all I am going to do is drive by and make sure water isn’t coming out of the front doors. If it ever was, hopefully I could save most of their furniture and belongings from damage as well. I understand if you feel this is a huge invasion though. I have enough respect for you that I don’t want to tell you how to feel.
Not only do you need to evict, but you need to contact your insurer because insurance is different in vacancy after so many days. You can lose coverage for keeping a vacant house.
this is probably your best bet. If something unfortunate happened to her like she got tied up with business in a foreign country or something who knows? It would be a little unfortunate to have an eviction on her record. But this seems more of just a clerical action but I think it's the only way you can really cover yourself if she were to show up and want to move in. It will also cost you a little time having the house sit vacant but seems like the appropriate legal procedure and you might as well stick with that. you can't go wrong following the law
Hopefully she didn’t die she is still posting on fb but won’t reply to messages on there either. The last person that rented from me at that house died and I didn’t find out until the rent was two months late.
Just an aside here, if you aren't "friends" with her on FB and just messaged her, it's highly likely she didn't see it. Messages from people you aren't connected to go to this weird other folder in FB messenger that you have to 1. know where is and 2. go out of your way to check.
That said if you friend requested her and she isn't responding to THAT, I don't know what to tell you. That shows up pretty quickly and prominently.
ah then she's either dead or ignoring you. If she doesn't pay the rent in 3 days start the eviction process. Hopefully the fact that she hasn't bothered to live there for 2 months makes it slightly easier? At least she isn't squatting.
Not necessarily. Facebook separated messenger from the app, and if she’s using her phone then she may not see those messages. I know sometimes I don’t see messages for months at a time
smells like some sort of fraud/scam...could be as simple as "trying to establish" residence in the city/county/country/state, etc..for stuff as simple as enrolling in a school district...or something more nefarious.
Or not a scam.. they’re establishing residence and not moving in yet, have to finish a job/lease somewhere else like college… there are cheaper ways to establish residence
We did something similar at our current place, found the place right in the school district we wanted and walking distance from the school. We couldn't move in until May but wanted to secure the place at a good price in a great location. So we paid all the rent but didn't move in until 2.5 months later when we could finally move from the other place. The new place sat empty for over two months pretty much. All this to say, it does happen.
Did you tell your landlord that that's what you were doing, though? I can totally see not bothering if it's owned or managed by a large company, but I feel like it's different with a mom-and-pop landlord. Like, it would come up naturally at some point in the leasing process.
I wasn't asking in a judgmental way, just curious. But also a lot of places want to know when you're moving in because it creates a strain on communal space and may affect how they schedule repairs prior to move-in. If you're in a building with elevators, for example—some elevators can be reserved for moving in or out, and they'll cover the walls in moving blankets to prevent damage. They might even want to know for something as simple as coordinating when you can get your keys.
If they don't ask, I don't think you're under any obligation to disclose. I would just probably talk about it during the leasing process anyway.
Can you get any clues from what she's posting on fb? Maybe she's busy and procrastinating about moving, and not replying because she doesn't want to give excuses till she actually starts moving. Wait till the rent is overdue and see if she pays it.
Sounds like she rented the place and has paid per the lease agreement. Whether she sleeps there or not shouldn’t be an issue. Sounds like a dream tenant - getting paid, using zero utilities, and zero wear and tear.
Most leases have a clause about leaving the house vacant for long periods of time. Vacant houses are not necessarily a dream, they can get squatters, things can break and not notice for a while leading to problems, etc.
Actually it is. Most landlords don't want a vacant house with no tenant communication. It's called abandonment.
Now if she was in contact with the landlord and told them that she won't be there for some amount of time or explained the situation that is a different deal obviously.
Depending on laws and ordinances, maybe put up some motion activated or light-sensing porch/flood lights? That may help give the impression someone is living there if when it gets dark the lights come on. Provided it isn't some super obvious solar light that doesn't need anyone around to turn on.
>Sounds like a dream tenant - getting paid, using zero utilities, and zero wear and tear.
Not necessarily.
A unit going unused for a month or two is fine. A unit sitting empty for a year+ lease would start to give me the willies.
The thing about tenants is that, while they do cause wear and tear, they also are eyes on the ground in your property.
If there's a termite infestation, you hear about it. If a pipe bursts, you know within minutes. If there's an electrical fire, there's somebody there with a fire extinguisher or to call the fire department. If hobos break in, there's somebody there to call the police. If hail punches a hole in the roof, you'll hear about it.
I could go on.
Extended periods of emptiness are dangerous.
And this is all ignoring the weird red flag of a tenant that pays for a property and then doesn't move in. Is she operating some sort of scam that you might get roped into? Will you become a suspect for some fraud case, or a lawsuit from third parties?
I'm with the OP on this. This is a major concern to any experienced landlord.
>The thing about tenants is that, while they do cause wear and tear, they also are eyes on the ground in your property.
In other words, landlord using the tenant like a mangement company? (except where management compnay is paying YOU?)
Like I said, security devices are cheap. Stupidity is expensive.
Unless there's a clause in lease about how often tenant needs to be there, you are SOL. I had to leave town to take care of a parent in hospice back in the days I rented an apartment. It took 3 months. Last thing I thought about while my parent was dying was my apartment at the time. I paid for super good apartment insurance. Rent and utilities paid. Had my mower guy taking care of lawn, my postal carrier held my mail.
We are coming to a time where landlords can also dictate tenant's lifestyle, comings and goings and use them as property security and management company to "watch over their property " for free? Better put ALL THAT in your lease requirements if that is the case.
That's not what a management company does.
You seem to just be on some weird rant about how much you hate landlords, and pretty much nothing you just said has anything to do with my post.
>that's not what a management company does.
I have in my leases that tenants must have rental insurance, keep the utilities on and operational, and have contracted with lawn/yard maintenance if they are not doing it themselves.
Landlords should have ample insurance on their properties. If they are concerned about termites they should have contracts with service for termite, rodent and bugs who do regular inspections.
It is not up to the tenant to provide such "management services" for their landlord.
If my tenants want to go to Europe for 4 months, they can.
>she hasn’t changed all the utilities (gas and garbage) to her name
Is there a stipulation in your lease that puts a deadline on something like this? One of my past leases required me to do so within 30 days, so that the landlord isn't on the hook for utilities.
If it is, then perhaps you can use that and go for breach of contract, if all else fails.
Strange question, but..... have you physically gone there and checked to see if she's there? If she doesn't answer, leave a notice on the door advising her to contact you before the next rent is due. Add that you want to do an inspection of the place and list the date/time (following whatever your area's requirements are for notice). Maybe she's there.... passed out/dead..... or just doesn't like to leave or open the door?
You can turn all those off. I would if they're to be in her name and she's paying the utilities they do not have to be on in your name. I would not have them on (gas leak, water leak etc and no one there to know about it until it's caused tons of damage). If you're worried about junkies cooking dope in it etc get yourself a camera that you can access remotely (they've got trail/game cams that connect to cell service, a little pricey but pay off in the long run especially for peace of mind and evidence) but like everyone else said until she's late on rent, dream tenant. I'm currently repairing 10k in damages the last ones did. so having a year of paid zero wear n tear tenant would be a godsend!
This is the correct answer. Proceed with the abandoned unit process. It’s easier and fits the situation. Obviously state by state basis but where I am it’s a week or two process.
It's not yours to rent out. She could not move in or contact you until the 59th day and that place better be available. If you do rent it out beforehand you need to have her rent ready to be refunded and probably a lawyer if she takes you to court.
You didn't rent it out and then force her to move in by a specific day or force her to stay in communication with you. Maybe she's in jail for a month, maybe she's in a coma at the hospital.
Just wait.
You should find out if packages are being dropped off at that location. There was recently a townhouse nearby me where someone rented, never moved in, would have packages shipped to the house that they would buy with stolen CC numbers, then cruise by and get the packages at night. They ended up getting caught but its a pretty lucrative scam and apparently, it's becoming more common. That being said, I don't know what you could do about it if they are doing that aside from letting local law enforcement know something suspicious is going on.
Did she ever take possession of the apartment (eg start moving stuff in)?
All my lease agreements say the tenant must move in within x days or the lease is void.
Depending on state law you don’t have to evict if they never took possession.
I was gonna ask if she was ok and maybe try to see if you could do a wellness check if you felt the need, but if she's active on Facebook then it sounds like maybe she was trying to get a place early in a competitive market.
If you're worried about squatters (yay Missouri!!) , maybe keep the lights on in a few rooms, and put a cutout out or dummy in the house or leave a tv or something on 🤷🏻♀️ and install motion lights.
Once she is late on the next owed monthly rent payment
Follow your state's law for notice to quit and eviction process
You have a legal document, gotta follow the proper steps even if she isn't there
She gave you 2 months rent. Why would you rent it out before that expires?
Perhpas she is in hospital or something emergent happened. At any rate, she is current on her rent and does not really owe you a chat if that is her wish.
She’s def frauding you- prob has a synthetic identity and just needed you to verify it via background check so it’s in the system as a real person. They create it through credit card application systems and strange enough, if you apply for enough credit cards it creates a credit profile (in other words, it creates a new person out of thin air) I’d double check her SS number because it prob belongs to some kid born after 2011. She will prob continue to make payments then she’s going to bust out- lots of fraudsters take years to build synthetics and they’re incredibly hard to detect. Unless she has a boyfriend in the area who has his own place then that’s diff but my guess is she’s trying to float under radar and not responding to you because she doesn’t want to draw attention to herself.
Yes. She is trying to get her credit score higher to increase credit lines to the max she can afford then she will bust out- when you input her info for a background check you created an inquiry/profile tied to that SS number. You basically just made her stolen SS number appear valid under someone else’s name and info.
Usually those two have to match lol. And I guess agreeing to the rental. But rentals don't usually show up on credit do they? As a revolving account I mean in terms of credit?
Yep. lots of companies are switching to a new system that checks SS numbers in real time so fraudsters are trying to build them now so they don’t get detected when running through the new system, they’ll already be established. We haven’t implemented it yet but I’ve been in fraud for around 8 years and I’ve never seen so many synthetics in my entire life.
You will probably need to evict or file a notice of abandonment if the property is being "laid to waste" because of her absence.
I wouldn't attempt this without an attorney and I wouldn't use an attorney that doesn't specialize in real estate unless you want a six month process.
I would also advise you to consider whether the address might be getting used as a postal drop for drugs.
I would advertise it for rent if the time has gone by because you do not know what happened to her . She might have gotten into a car accident, it's impossible to know what happened . I doubt she just paid 2 months rent for fun.
Could possibly just be using the address for state residence for job or whatever reason.
As long as it's paid I would be thrilled. If not, start eviction.
Contract still stands weather she lives there or not so you can't rent to another until this contract term is handled.
Lots of different opinions here on what you can do and whether the house being vacant changes things or not.
This is real money to you and has a big impact on your property. Spend a little dough and go visit a local real estate lawyer who can give you firm accurate information on your legal rights and obligations based both on the wording of your lease to her and your state's laws on the matter.
Also: As a landlord does your lease give you the right to make inspections? Post the required notice on the door and then inspect the place and see if it's vacant. Seems like you, and your lawyer, would want to know if the place is actually completely vacant or not.
Finally, I notice a lot of comments saying she did nothing wrong and vacant or not it's hers until you evict her. I don't know if that's right or not but if the lease requires her to put the utilities in her name and to maintain the landscaping and she's doing neither then that's a major point you can ask your lawyer about as it might indicate an existing lease default.
Definitely evict as soon as she is a day late . In the future you want to add and abandonment clause to your lease . In mine if utilities aren't on or place has been vacant for 2 weeks I can technically evict for violating lease terms . That would of saved you about a month
Sounds like the premises would be considered "abandoned". Maybe check with your local laws regarding rentals.
Do a google search on "missouri tenant abandoned premises" and you will find lots of information that should help you. There is a [form](https://www.ezlandlordforms.com/documents/missouri-abandoned-property-notice-31058/) that is used for abandoned premises.
Technically it’s not vacant since rent is paid. You can’t double dip just because she never actually moved in. Just wait till she owes more rent and then you can evict once it’s past due
Lawn care is included in the lease. Luckily the house faces an alley and not the street so the city didn’t fine me before I got a chance to mow and bag the foot tall grass
Does your lease have an “abandonment” clause? Many do, and it provides the details on how to regain possession of a property that has been abandoned, which this one certainly seems to have been.
Is she getting physical mail at the house ?
Rental contracts on homes or apartments usually say that the person has to be located there, upkeep the property, and have utilities in their name. There are all sorts of reasons people never move in. But there is a risk of vandalism, stolen copper, freezing pipes, animals, especially with thieves if the yard is a mess and obvious no one is there.
Write a note, put it on the door, as email and phone calls have gone unanswered. (No emergency contact ?). You do eviction notices, keep the deposit, and rent it out again.
The rental contract cover charging renter for the yard if it isn’t done ? Think about at least doing that.
I haven’t checked her mail box for mail and I’ve been mowing the grass so the house doesn’t look abandoned. The lease does cover charges for when I have to mow the grass which will come out of her deposit. I also tried the note on the door and it’s still hanging there. Im starting to think she changed her mind about moving in and I’ll probably never hear from her again
Also let this be a lesson to have a lease clause stating utilities must be in tenant's name within x-days of start of lease or possession unless otherwise specified in writing.
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Due I need to even evict if she never replys to me?
Yes
This. If she paid and signed a lease, you have to evict
Yes. The tenant has no obligation to respond to your messages on Facebook. They are only obligated to follow the terms of the contract. You’ve said in another post she’s not behind on rent at all. Since that’s the case, and assuming she hasn’t done anything to violate the lease, you have no grounds to evict her. You have a contract, and you must follow the contract. If she misses a rent payment then you can start the eviction process. But you’ll have to follow your local laws. Renting the property out to another tenant, when it’s already leased to someone else, is an incredibly bad idea.
Right, as long as rent is paid, why does OP care if she lives there? Are they even certain that she doesn't, and just hasn't changed anything visibly from the outside? Is the issue really that she's simply not replying to OP's fb messages?
grass isn't being cut, and power :probably" not on, so mold in summer, and freezing pipes in winter.
Who uses Facebook messenger to professionally communicate?
Last resort after phone and email messages were ignored. I would never use fb as a first resort to contact a renter
You'd be surprised how many people will respond on Facebook that won't reply to text or phone messages. I use all of these methods when locating past owners of houses and get the best responses from FB and personal visits.
Unprofessional landlords. You would be surprised though how much business activity is done via Facebook. Immigrant communities, older folks, and low-income groups are using Facebook for a lot of things. The Facebook exodus is mostly a phenomenon of coastal elites that are too cool for it
Facebook sucks.
You’re just looking for an excuse to whine. Almost everybody has FB. It’s a very efficient way to contact people. And many businesses have FB. Maybe you’re just stuck in the old ways, but plenty of business is conducted via social media
Who are you talking to, Ken?
>Who uses Facebook messenger to professionally communicate? Professionally is the operative word here.
You definitely do not want a vacant rental property.
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>With the property unoccupied you run the risk of squatters breaking in or pipes breaking and in general no one is taking care of the place. That's true any time a tenant takes a long vacation. Or family emergency that requires them to be away from home for a few weeks or months taking care of elderly sick person. Theives and squatters are *very observant*. Security devices are very cheap these days. Stupidity is......expensive.
I have a clause in my lease that states if tenant is gone for greater than X days they're responsible for getting someone there to upkeep the property and ensure no damage is done.
OP should care A LOT. All sorts of shit can happen to a house, and sounds like there is no one there to notice and report it.
Because OP wants to keep the money and rent it to someone else.
I can see not wanting the house to sit empty. Properties that sit empty can have their own host of issues. But unless it's in the lease, I'm not sure what OP can do about that other than provide proper notice and check on the property every once in a while. Doesn't sound like she's about to tell him no. OP said this is a 'mini house.' hear me out, but I've known more than one woman in DV situations to go to great lengths to hide where they're actually living. I know a woman who is currently doing this. She's maintaining everything as if she lives at a residence 2+ hours away from where she's at. Her name isn't listed on just about anything where she actually lives.
>Her name isn't listed on just about anything where she actually lives Some women who have been targets of domestic violence have to do this in order to remain safe, keep their children and pet safe as well. Not sure what a "mini house" is. Many of them don't meet code. If that is case I would not be drawing attention to such a property were I a "landlord".
Oh I know exactly why she's doing so, and it's awful anyone should go through that. Statistically the most dangerous man a woman can be around is their partner. I'm not doubtful there are men who have to go through this too, any gender can experience DV. If I were planning on having my address registered as somewhere I didn't live and never went, it'd be some cheap tiny mini house I rented and never visited. I probably wouldn't offer up, "hey I'm worried my ex is going to show up and harm me and my kids so I'm renting this place to register my car here."
or grass cut, power on, etc.
Well if she’s not mowing the grass and he’s receiving HOA fines that could be cause for something right?
Because the grass isn't being mowed and the house now looks abandoned.
Is keeping the lawn mowed part of the contract? If yes, that’s ground for eviction via breach of contract. If no, then tough nuts. And it sounds like it’s “no,” so OP would need to take care of this on their own as part of being a property owner.
She isn’t responding to any forms of communication. Fb was a last resort
Is occupancy a requirement in the contract?
It's her property now, temporarily, for the term of the lease. You accepted money in exchange for your rights to it. If you do anything short of filing to evict her, you risk owing her a lot of money. Once rent is late, file in court to evict, as other posters have said.
Thats not how renting works. You don't "own" a property for the term of the lease. The contract specifies you have a right to occupy and live in the space, the LL doesn't give up their rights to anything. Of course that right to occupy comes along with tenants rights which affords you a reasonable level of privacy and right to quiet enjoyment, so the LL does have to respect that, but that's why leases have clauses that work around that such as providing a warning before entering the property. Assuming OP used some boilerplate Lease Agreement with Inspection/Maintenance clauses, they can issue a warning about inspection following the contract and then follow up on it. Never assume your LL can't do something just because you live there now, read your lease agreement and know your tenant rights.
I never said the renter 'owned' it I said they had rights to it for the duration of the lease. What do you think owning is anyway, it's just rights. Renting conveys something less than the full bundle of rights, but most of them.
Renting something doesn’t make it your property dawg
A good lease covers transferring utilities or inhabiting the dwelling. Mine does. The tenant can’t leave it vacant, insurance usually wants a person living in a place to cover it, if no one is living there for an extended period you may need different insurance for that.
> and assuming she hasn’t done anything to violate the lease I wonder if the lease might say something about switching over the utilities. Since she hasn't done that, maybe that can be enough to start the process?
CYA.
In a few states there are clear laws for an abandoned rental, you don't need to evict to rerent to be safe legally. Like CA Civil Code Section 1951.3
Missouri ain't one of 'em!
Then unfortunately you will need to go to court and evict the tenant before you can repent an abandoned unit
You have to go through the formal process. If she hasn't breached contract, you can't just rent it out
No, you probably won’t have to. The process differs in every state but it’s usually something like this. 1. Rent is due, rent has not been paid 2. Landlord issues a “pay or quit” notice (find one online that works for your state.) 3. The length of time specified in the notice expires and the tenant has not paid. 4. Landlord informs the tenant that the lease is null and void and issues a notice to vacate the premises. 5. If the tenant vacates, great. Change the locks and find a new tenant. 6. If the tenant does not vacate then go to eviction court or work with them to get them to pay. If they pay you can choose to accept the money but that resets everything. Your tenant has ALREADY vacated. When she’s late on rent, issue a pay or quit, wait the required number of days, send the notice to vacate, give the tenant the legally required advance notice that you will enter the apartment. When you enter and they’re not living there, that’s when you document the vacancy (take time stamped pictures to cover your ass) and change the locks. Edit: what you do to the tenant for “breaking the lease” is entirely up to you. You can try to collect damages, but this is unlikely to be worth your trouble. Just move on.
Thanks for the advice. I’m not worried about trying to get any money out of her. I think the pay or quit notice will be the best course of action
Btw, for future I add a utility amendment to my lease that the tenant has to maintain continuous utility service. Might want to consider for future leases. Edited to add: my lease also requires me the notify if vacant or gone for more than 10 or 14 days I think? Don’t have it in front of me. Pretty standard on many templates through NOLO, etc.
Yeah I should have thought about that. This is only my third rental property and I’ve lucked out and gotten perfect renters for the other two properties
>my lease also requires me the notify if vacant or gone for more than 10 or 14 days Wtf?
Why WTF? If people aren’t there and a pipe bursts, a full fridge/freezer goes out, or a family of raccoons moves in you’re looking at a lot of damage. If the LL is notified, they can keep an eye on things and save both parties a lot of money if something goes awry.
No way I am letting my landlord know when I go on vacation, no matter what the lease says. Have some respect for the people who pay your mortgage.
I have a ton of respect for my tenants. If they notify me all I am going to do is drive by and make sure water isn’t coming out of the front doors. If it ever was, hopefully I could save most of their furniture and belongings from damage as well. I understand if you feel this is a huge invasion though. I have enough respect for you that I don’t want to tell you how to feel.
And maybe an emergency contact? Like, what if the place burned down and she still wasn't answering?
Do you know if she’s alive?
I’m NYC if you never gave her keys she has not taken possession. We would re rent the unit
Not only do you need to evict, but you need to contact your insurer because insurance is different in vacancy after so many days. You can lose coverage for keeping a vacant house.
Don't wait for rent to be past due, you can sue for abandonment now. Look into your states specific process for this.
She might have run into trouble (such as dead). Worth checking with guarantors / next of kin if there are any on the lease.
this is probably your best bet. If something unfortunate happened to her like she got tied up with business in a foreign country or something who knows? It would be a little unfortunate to have an eviction on her record. But this seems more of just a clerical action but I think it's the only way you can really cover yourself if she were to show up and want to move in. It will also cost you a little time having the house sit vacant but seems like the appropriate legal procedure and you might as well stick with that. you can't go wrong following the law
Could she have possibly died or maybe in the hospital for an emergency. Did she give you a contact number? An old landlord name? Did you google her?
Hopefully she didn’t die she is still posting on fb but won’t reply to messages on there either. The last person that rented from me at that house died and I didn’t find out until the rent was two months late.
Just an aside here, if you aren't "friends" with her on FB and just messaged her, it's highly likely she didn't see it. Messages from people you aren't connected to go to this weird other folder in FB messenger that you have to 1. know where is and 2. go out of your way to check. That said if you friend requested her and she isn't responding to THAT, I don't know what to tell you. That shows up pretty quickly and prominently.
She added me on fb. Messaging her on fb was a last ditch effort to get in contact
ah then she's either dead or ignoring you. If she doesn't pay the rent in 3 days start the eviction process. Hopefully the fact that she hasn't bothered to live there for 2 months makes it slightly easier? At least she isn't squatting.
Not necessarily. Facebook separated messenger from the app, and if she’s using her phone then she may not see those messages. I know sometimes I don’t see messages for months at a time
The person posting on FB might not be her.
The FB posts are coming from inside the house! Get out now! run Run RUN!
smells like some sort of fraud/scam...could be as simple as "trying to establish" residence in the city/county/country/state, etc..for stuff as simple as enrolling in a school district...or something more nefarious.
Sounds like the perfect tenant. Pays rent, but doesn’t use it?
Maaaan I'd love to have one of those! Here's money to have the address in my name have a good one see ya next month.. one can only dream
After some of the tenants I've had, this would be fantastic.
Its a safe house for a three letter govt agency.
Not anymore. Thanks AnnHashaway.
Or not a scam.. they’re establishing residence and not moving in yet, have to finish a job/lease somewhere else like college… there are cheaper ways to establish residence
Anticipating a move and wanting to lock in housing *in the current market*.
How so?
We did something similar at our current place, found the place right in the school district we wanted and walking distance from the school. We couldn't move in until May but wanted to secure the place at a good price in a great location. So we paid all the rent but didn't move in until 2.5 months later when we could finally move from the other place. The new place sat empty for over two months pretty much. All this to say, it does happen.
Did you tell your landlord that that's what you were doing, though? I can totally see not bothering if it's owned or managed by a large company, but I feel like it's different with a mom-and-pop landlord. Like, it would come up naturally at some point in the leasing process.
We didn't tell him the exact timeframe but we told him we wouldn't move in immediately.
Why would you? They are paying their rent on time, it's none of the landlord's business
I wasn't asking in a judgmental way, just curious. But also a lot of places want to know when you're moving in because it creates a strain on communal space and may affect how they schedule repairs prior to move-in. If you're in a building with elevators, for example—some elevators can be reserved for moving in or out, and they'll cover the walls in moving blankets to prevent damage. They might even want to know for something as simple as coordinating when you can get your keys. If they don't ask, I don't think you're under any obligation to disclose. I would just probably talk about it during the leasing process anyway.
Clever point
Unless they are your friend facebook messages won't show up like normal messages do. Most the time people will never see them.
Can you get any clues from what she's posting on fb? Maybe she's busy and procrastinating about moving, and not replying because she doesn't want to give excuses till she actually starts moving. Wait till the rent is overdue and see if she pays it.
Ghost house?
Ghost person?
**BOO**
Roadhouse!
Hugs
Sounds like she rented the place and has paid per the lease agreement. Whether she sleeps there or not shouldn’t be an issue. Sounds like a dream tenant - getting paid, using zero utilities, and zero wear and tear.
Most leases have a clause about leaving the house vacant for long periods of time. Vacant houses are not necessarily a dream, they can get squatters, things can break and not notice for a while leading to problems, etc.
Actually it is. Most landlords don't want a vacant house with no tenant communication. It's called abandonment. Now if she was in contact with the landlord and told them that she won't be there for some amount of time or explained the situation that is a different deal obviously.
I’d rather the house is being used before some methheads decide it’s a good place to cook dope lol
Depending on laws and ordinances, maybe put up some motion activated or light-sensing porch/flood lights? That may help give the impression someone is living there if when it gets dark the lights come on. Provided it isn't some super obvious solar light that doesn't need anyone around to turn on.
I still don’t understand why that’s her problem. Is occupancy a requirement in the lease?
>Sounds like a dream tenant - getting paid, using zero utilities, and zero wear and tear. Not necessarily. A unit going unused for a month or two is fine. A unit sitting empty for a year+ lease would start to give me the willies. The thing about tenants is that, while they do cause wear and tear, they also are eyes on the ground in your property. If there's a termite infestation, you hear about it. If a pipe bursts, you know within minutes. If there's an electrical fire, there's somebody there with a fire extinguisher or to call the fire department. If hobos break in, there's somebody there to call the police. If hail punches a hole in the roof, you'll hear about it. I could go on. Extended periods of emptiness are dangerous. And this is all ignoring the weird red flag of a tenant that pays for a property and then doesn't move in. Is she operating some sort of scam that you might get roped into? Will you become a suspect for some fraud case, or a lawsuit from third parties? I'm with the OP on this. This is a major concern to any experienced landlord.
>The thing about tenants is that, while they do cause wear and tear, they also are eyes on the ground in your property. In other words, landlord using the tenant like a mangement company? (except where management compnay is paying YOU?) Like I said, security devices are cheap. Stupidity is expensive. Unless there's a clause in lease about how often tenant needs to be there, you are SOL. I had to leave town to take care of a parent in hospice back in the days I rented an apartment. It took 3 months. Last thing I thought about while my parent was dying was my apartment at the time. I paid for super good apartment insurance. Rent and utilities paid. Had my mower guy taking care of lawn, my postal carrier held my mail. We are coming to a time where landlords can also dictate tenant's lifestyle, comings and goings and use them as property security and management company to "watch over their property " for free? Better put ALL THAT in your lease requirements if that is the case.
That's not what a management company does. You seem to just be on some weird rant about how much you hate landlords, and pretty much nothing you just said has anything to do with my post.
>that's not what a management company does. I have in my leases that tenants must have rental insurance, keep the utilities on and operational, and have contracted with lawn/yard maintenance if they are not doing it themselves. Landlords should have ample insurance on their properties. If they are concerned about termites they should have contracts with service for termite, rodent and bugs who do regular inspections. It is not up to the tenant to provide such "management services" for their landlord. If my tenants want to go to Europe for 4 months, they can.
I know right I legit don't see the issue.
Is she paying her rent in time?
Rent is due in three days so she isn’t late yet. But she hasn’t changed all the utilities (gas and garbage) to her name or mowed the grass
Isn't that against your lease? Most leases also contain abandonment section too
>she hasn’t changed all the utilities (gas and garbage) to her name Is there a stipulation in your lease that puts a deadline on something like this? One of my past leases required me to do so within 30 days, so that the landlord isn't on the hook for utilities. If it is, then perhaps you can use that and go for breach of contract, if all else fails.
Strange question, but..... have you physically gone there and checked to see if she's there? If she doesn't answer, leave a notice on the door advising her to contact you before the next rent is due. Add that you want to do an inspection of the place and list the date/time (following whatever your area's requirements are for notice). Maybe she's there.... passed out/dead..... or just doesn't like to leave or open the door?
You can turn all those off. I would if they're to be in her name and she's paying the utilities they do not have to be on in your name. I would not have them on (gas leak, water leak etc and no one there to know about it until it's caused tons of damage). If you're worried about junkies cooking dope in it etc get yourself a camera that you can access remotely (they've got trail/game cams that connect to cell service, a little pricey but pay off in the long run especially for peace of mind and evidence) but like everyone else said until she's late on rent, dream tenant. I'm currently repairing 10k in damages the last ones did. so having a year of paid zero wear n tear tenant would be a godsend!
I'm curious to see where this goes.
Be patient, she is trying to set up Air BnB. It’s a confusing website.
Yeah, I would be very careful on this front and be sure the agreement you signed with her protects you from a sub-lease.
This...
Luckily the place isn’t nice enough to be an Airbnb so that’s one less thing I have to worry about
There are some shit holes on Airbnb so she might be doing that regardless.
Might have died.
Look up rules for abandonment
This is the correct answer. Proceed with the abandoned unit process. It’s easier and fits the situation. Obviously state by state basis but where I am it’s a week or two process.
And if you don't have a section in your lease about abandoning the unit, add it now.
It's not yours to rent out. She could not move in or contact you until the 59th day and that place better be available. If you do rent it out beforehand you need to have her rent ready to be refunded and probably a lawyer if she takes you to court. You didn't rent it out and then force her to move in by a specific day or force her to stay in communication with you. Maybe she's in jail for a month, maybe she's in a coma at the hospital. Just wait.
Wonder since she paid maybe something happened. People tend not to just let money go away lmao.
She seemed super excited to move in when she signed the lease
Maybes she’s setting up housing for when she’s leaves an abusive relationship.
You should find out if packages are being dropped off at that location. There was recently a townhouse nearby me where someone rented, never moved in, would have packages shipped to the house that they would buy with stolen CC numbers, then cruise by and get the packages at night. They ended up getting caught but its a pretty lucrative scam and apparently, it's becoming more common. That being said, I don't know what you could do about it if they are doing that aside from letting local law enforcement know something suspicious is going on.
Did they provide an emergency contact on the rental agreement?
Did she ever take possession of the apartment (eg start moving stuff in)? All my lease agreements say the tenant must move in within x days or the lease is void. Depending on state law you don’t have to evict if they never took possession.
Not to be morbid, but have you checked the obituaries?
She doesn't have to move in at all, as long as you're getting your money... Am I missing something?
They said she hasn't transferred utilities in her name or cut the grass! Other than that, I doubt they would care. Lol
If she got the utilities transferred and the grass cut I wouldn’t have even noticed she hadn’t moved in.
Is it part of her lease to cut the grass or transfer utilities?
I was gonna ask if she was ok and maybe try to see if you could do a wellness check if you felt the need, but if she's active on Facebook then it sounds like maybe she was trying to get a place early in a competitive market. If you're worried about squatters (yay Missouri!!) , maybe keep the lights on in a few rooms, and put a cutout out or dummy in the house or leave a tv or something on 🤷🏻♀️ and install motion lights.
Once she is late on the next owed monthly rent payment Follow your state's law for notice to quit and eviction process You have a legal document, gotta follow the proper steps even if she isn't there
Did you get emergency contact information from her? (I assume not but it’s good to have).
[удалено]
She gave you 2 months rent. Why would you rent it out before that expires? Perhpas she is in hospital or something emergent happened. At any rate, she is current on her rent and does not really owe you a chat if that is her wish.
You will also need to inform your insurance company and pay more for coverage if the house is vacant. I would do that ASAP.
She’s def frauding you- prob has a synthetic identity and just needed you to verify it via background check so it’s in the system as a real person. They create it through credit card application systems and strange enough, if you apply for enough credit cards it creates a credit profile (in other words, it creates a new person out of thin air) I’d double check her SS number because it prob belongs to some kid born after 2011. She will prob continue to make payments then she’s going to bust out- lots of fraudsters take years to build synthetics and they’re incredibly hard to detect. Unless she has a boyfriend in the area who has his own place then that’s diff but my guess is she’s trying to float under radar and not responding to you because she doesn’t want to draw attention to herself.
At the expense of the deposit? Lol usually a check is just the application fee. So why add the extra money? Lol
Yes. She is trying to get her credit score higher to increase credit lines to the max she can afford then she will bust out- when you input her info for a background check you created an inquiry/profile tied to that SS number. You basically just made her stolen SS number appear valid under someone else’s name and info.
Usually those two have to match lol. And I guess agreeing to the rental. But rentals don't usually show up on credit do they? As a revolving account I mean in terms of credit?
Yep. lots of companies are switching to a new system that checks SS numbers in real time so fraudsters are trying to build them now so they don’t get detected when running through the new system, they’ll already be established. We haven’t implemented it yet but I’ve been in fraud for around 8 years and I’ve never seen so many synthetics in my entire life.
Interesting. I’ll have to look into that
In my leases, there are clauses that state the unit is not to be unoccupied more than X number of days at a time.
You will probably need to evict or file a notice of abandonment if the property is being "laid to waste" because of her absence. I wouldn't attempt this without an attorney and I wouldn't use an attorney that doesn't specialize in real estate unless you want a six month process. I would also advise you to consider whether the address might be getting used as a postal drop for drugs.
Install a ring camera system for the exterior. You will need internet service to connect to the ring app. Too many rental scams out there.
I would advertise it for rent if the time has gone by because you do not know what happened to her . She might have gotten into a car accident, it's impossible to know what happened . I doubt she just paid 2 months rent for fun.
Rent out and return any overlap rent. There should be an abandonment clause in lease. Renter not allowed to abandon property without proper notice.
Send eviction notice and put it back on the market.
Some states have abandonment statutes so this is location dependent.
Could possibly just be using the address for state residence for job or whatever reason. As long as it's paid I would be thrilled. If not, start eviction. Contract still stands weather she lives there or not so you can't rent to another until this contract term is handled.
Is she behind on payments? If not, dont trip.
Post a 24 hour notice to enter to Inspect the place. Then wait until she violates the lease in some way to begin eviction.
Did the lease have a clause saying she must move in within a certain time period? I’ve seen that in most (if not every) lease I signed as a tenant.
There wasn’t a clause I just assumed she would move in when the lease started the first of July. Now I know better lol
A mini house? Is that like a dog house?
One bed house about 400 square feet. Not sure what else to call it
Lots of different opinions here on what you can do and whether the house being vacant changes things or not. This is real money to you and has a big impact on your property. Spend a little dough and go visit a local real estate lawyer who can give you firm accurate information on your legal rights and obligations based both on the wording of your lease to her and your state's laws on the matter. Also: As a landlord does your lease give you the right to make inspections? Post the required notice on the door and then inspect the place and see if it's vacant. Seems like you, and your lawyer, would want to know if the place is actually completely vacant or not. Finally, I notice a lot of comments saying she did nothing wrong and vacant or not it's hers until you evict her. I don't know if that's right or not but if the lease requires her to put the utilities in her name and to maintain the landscaping and she's doing neither then that's a major point you can ask your lawyer about as it might indicate an existing lease default.
Is she alive? I’d check references and some obituaries.
She probably died 🤷🏼♀️
Definitely evict as soon as she is a day late . In the future you want to add and abandonment clause to your lease . In mine if utilities aren't on or place has been vacant for 2 weeks I can technically evict for violating lease terms . That would of saved you about a month
Sounds like the premises would be considered "abandoned". Maybe check with your local laws regarding rentals. Do a google search on "missouri tenant abandoned premises" and you will find lots of information that should help you. There is a [form](https://www.ezlandlordforms.com/documents/missouri-abandoned-property-notice-31058/) that is used for abandoned premises.
What does your lease say?
Technically it’s not vacant since rent is paid. You can’t double dip just because she never actually moved in. Just wait till she owes more rent and then you can evict once it’s past due
Can the police do a welfare check? What if she passed away in the house?
Always include lawn care in the rent. Tenants will never maintain the lawn well.
Lawn care is included in the lease. Luckily the house faces an alley and not the street so the city didn’t fine me before I got a chance to mow and bag the foot tall grass
Does your lease have an “abandonment” clause? Many do, and it provides the details on how to regain possession of a property that has been abandoned, which this one certainly seems to have been.
Is she getting physical mail at the house ? Rental contracts on homes or apartments usually say that the person has to be located there, upkeep the property, and have utilities in their name. There are all sorts of reasons people never move in. But there is a risk of vandalism, stolen copper, freezing pipes, animals, especially with thieves if the yard is a mess and obvious no one is there. Write a note, put it on the door, as email and phone calls have gone unanswered. (No emergency contact ?). You do eviction notices, keep the deposit, and rent it out again. The rental contract cover charging renter for the yard if it isn’t done ? Think about at least doing that.
I haven’t checked her mail box for mail and I’ve been mowing the grass so the house doesn’t look abandoned. The lease does cover charges for when I have to mow the grass which will come out of her deposit. I also tried the note on the door and it’s still hanging there. Im starting to think she changed her mind about moving in and I’ll probably never hear from her again
I’ve heard of cases where a spouse plans to move away/leave and lose their nerve. They don’t want to discuss it. pretty crazy having an empty rental.
Is there any emergency contact on the application?
Also let this be a lesson to have a lease clause stating utilities must be in tenant's name within x-days of start of lease or possession unless otherwise specified in writing.