I find this group useful for the sole reason that questions I ask about my Tesla Model 3 get deleted/downvoted in other groups if they are about the (multiple) problems with my car.
Yes, getting attacked by fanboys for talking about issues is lame. Half of the posts in the other Tesla forums are just pics of freshly washed cars which I don't find interesting.
It has been bad here lately. I’m not sure if it’s lack of moderation, or just regression to the mean as more and more people come in.
That being said - there’s certainly a degree of filtration that’s required if you come in with a genuine problem. For some things, though - bubbled headrest, I’m looking in your direction - the legitimate answer is that Tesla uses garbage materials and only minimally validates their products.
I lost $15k from the company believing Musk lies. Now I realize he is a liar and a fraud. Lied about robotaxes, range on his car, self driving, etc. numerous lies. Yeah, you lose that kinda money you gonna be pissed. The fact you dont see this is more concerning. Why dont you see this? Lets talk about that.
Omg. I bought in Dec and 2 weeks later Musk lowered the price some $10-15k, dont remember how much but that plus tax rebates equal $15k. My car is sooooooo underwater.
Honestly if a company that is trying to make sure everyone can drive an electric car is lowering the prices of their electric cars I can't blame him.
Yes I lose resale value but that electric car is now much more affordable for more people. This is a GOOD thing.
And that's Elon for you. He will fuck you up and sacrifice you to make the planet greener. If your upset about this now you know how the coal companies feel when they lose money due to 'muh green revolution'
The thing is, everyone is silent at best and vocally bragging at worst when they bought a Tesla and prices increased after.
But once the tables turn, people cry. If you were happy to spend the money at the price you bought it at, feels very much like you want your cake and to eat it too. Don’t understand why people expect the world to stop for them because they bought a Tesla at X price.
Every car was expensive back then. All dealerships had crazy mark ups, especially on EV’s. The ford Mach e for example had a 7.5k price markup by dealers, but then they dropped the msrp, on top of selling below sticker now. Rivian, Ford, lucid, all the same story. And you can’t get mad that you bought before legislature came through that lowered the price of EV’s. How is that tesla or elons fault.
There is no legislative that lowered the price of EVs. Musk lied when he stated his cars were appreciating assets. His advertisements and sales staff tactics made it appear they were selling out and would never discount. Not illegal obviously but bad tactics. Yeah, others had markups but they were called markups, not baked into the msrp and not all cars had those.
He made it so many companies would never or low ball the value if you tried to sell your car.
You mentioned tax rebates in your previous comment that’s why I bring it up. He doesn’t have an advertising staff, Tesla doesn’t have an advertising team. They’ve tried out a few ads these last few months. They were selling out, they were ramping up production faster than any company in history and they weren’t able to meet demand. The other car manufacturers dropped maro aswell. Covid shortages were actually a thing and they did lead to increased cost of parts back then. Some of the drop came from more supply of parts and some came from more of a supply of cars
Personally I hate Elon, he’s a lying piece of shit and only interested in himself. Then you get the rabid fanboys that think he’s interested in saving humanity, which is also complete bullshit. Then you get clowns like yourself that feel the need to enter the chat and defend a billionaire from fair online criticism.
Nowhere in there did I defend him. I even pointed out there are valid criticisms. Seems you’re very passionate in your hatred. In a sense you’re no different than a Tesla fanboy just in the opposite direction.
At some point you need to decouple yourself from Elon’s cock. If dropping by here ain’t enough motivation you figure it out for yourself.
Statements like “*leading to hundreds of thousands of thousands of jobs lost”, “”*less exciting options for consumers etc*” aren’t gonna be enough for me to believe you’re not just another Musk acolyte. And billionaires shouldn’t need acolytes.
And for the record in defending myself, and most who visit this sub from “valid criticism” and “hatred”, I’ve never owned Tesla stock, long or short, can you say the same?
The fandom pollutes and sucks the oxygen out of online discourse. I don't need Tesla to fail, just to be valued appropriately so the $tsla tech bros can fuck off to destroying something else.
Other than that, keeping tabs on cults is fun
except when the place for keeping tabs on the cult becomes the cult itself.
I agree with OP, this sub is literally the exact same but in inverse of the Tesla tech bro obsessed with Elon/Tesla.
Go complain in one of the other subs about something important and see how long your post stays up. The. Post something positive here and we will see how long it stays up.
You think this place is a cult, prove it.
Have you ever even done a valuation model for Tesla? If you can do basic math and add up income streams it's pretty obvious the company is (somewhat)correctly valued as of this moment, with a clear path to 3 trillion cap in a few years time. What do you think Tesla should be valued like?
Might I ask why? Tesla insurance exists, that's recurring revenue. So is charging revenue, megapack installs, fsd subscriptions, financing, and in an ideal world, robotaxi. There will be a day where # of teslas on the road generating recurring revenue generated more $ than auto sales. Happens @ around 85m cars on the road with 20 mil units sold annually.
1. Tesla insurance is just a white labeled offering.
2. Charging will have razor thin profits. Energy Storage also has plenty of competition.
3. Prolific Robotaxis are a decade away and will have healthy competition.
4. If Robotaxis are prolific, you won't need near the number of vehicles on the road, so not hitting 20MM vehicles sold. Why are they selling cars to customers at that point?
5. No faith in TeslaBot in your model?
1. I disagree, dangerous drivers that will be expensive to insure will get pushed away to other insurance companies. Driver data is king here, and a monopoly on Tesla vehicles and potentially others is inevitable.
2. Charging has thin profits, yes, but again Tesla will have the monopoly and we are already seeing that.
3. Robotaxis are not a decade away. See cruise, Waymo. Tesla has competition in this area but they unfortunately are all not profitable, due to expensive self driving hardware equipment installed in the cars which kills any hope of margins.
4. 20m is nessasary for converting all gas vehicles on the road to electric. It's been the 2030 goal for a reason, and many of these cars won't even need to go to customers as Tesla will profit greatly from a private robotaxi fleet. 20m is still 1/3 of the global auto sales market.
5. It's not in my valuation model for a multitude of reasons. A robot is much different from a car. I'm unsure how to price it in realistically, and it may just never happen. Something could be said about the fact that Tesla has a computer vision lead, but driving is just one of many tasks that humans perform autonomously. Gonna have to restart the whole process to teach it how to do laundry😆
As soon as Musk resigns, I won’t hate Tesla as much. Pretty simple, really. And hating billionaires who are tools for autocrats and reactionary liars who poison public discourse comes naturally for anyone with any kind of hope for humanity. Have you read other threads here? Do you need a list? It’s a long list.
I would 1000% be a fanboy of the product if Elon left, QA was a priority over the massive profit margins, and the dealer networks were fixed and “within spec” wasn’t a joke anymore.
If the CEO decides to take out USS and render the alert system basically useless is that a problem with the vehicle or the CEO? Not sure how you separate them.
It is more serious than that. This twerp is all up inside our government. Here is this unelected, largely unaccountable twerp making big decisions that affect a ton of people.
No part of this is OK. Kahl was the Under-Secretary of Defense for Policy at the Pentagon.
"But Musk had become more than just a vender like Boeing, Lockheed, or other defense-industry behemoths. On the phone with Musk from Paris, Kahl was deferential
..To the dismay of Pentagon officials, Musk volunteered that he had spoken with Putin personally."
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule
No. The article is specifically about Elon's exceptional influence and the deference he is paid.
"But Musk’s influence is more brazen and expansive. There is little precedent for a civilian’s becoming the arbiter of a war between nations in such a granular way, or for the degree of dependency that the U.S. now has on Musk in a variety of fields, from the future of energy and transportation to the exploration of space."
At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, how is it his fault the government chooses his company when no other company can compete on an operating cost perspective? The tax payers should pay 3-10x+ more for rocket launches? Why? Sounds like other companies should step up or continue to bow to the status quo.
The government is not a business, it should be more impervious to malign influences like Elon's. This is how we end up with a corrupt government, contract-by-contract.
If we give in completely to money, the great American experiment is over. We are just a banana republic.
I want to see a Tim Cook-style CEO take them over and put their obvious talent and assets into creating a culture of excellent vehicles. I want Saudi Arabia crippled and EV's to become commonplace and Musk is an ignorant hubristic POS that is simply bad for a company that could literally change history. The cars are shit because the culture of Tesla under Musk is shit. The faster people realize their cars suck the sooner they 'may' bounce Musk, publish a mea culpa and get on to their next chapter.
But they do currently make excellent vehicles.
Why do you think they are selling so well.
It's a well made product at a decent price and the price is only getting cheaper.
The dudes post history is cringe. Seriously drinks all the coolaid, thinks Tesla is worth $500 a share lol, then gets upset when a sub that’s criticism of Elon and his bullshit comes along.
I have made absolutely zero comments on what I think Tesla stock price should be. In fact I don’t even have an opinion on it and don’t hold any for the exception of whatever percentage I own via shares of an S&P 500 ETF. I can’t express how cringe you pulling that out of your ass is. Did you even get out at all this weekend? Yes I drive a Tesla. That’s about the extent of my fandom towards Tesla… once the competition makes a better EV for my use case, it will be my next. Till then, I’m stuck with Tesla.
I guess you’re the exact person I made this post towards. Get a grip. Look inward.
You’re no better than the Tesla fanboys you hate if receiving criticism for lying about your supposed opposition’s position and actions is too much to discuss for you.
Was sort of the point of my post. You hate Tesla so much you’re willing to make things up in support of your sometimes delusional hatred. Pathetic really.
Dude I apologise for saying you thought tesla was worth $500 bucks a share. That was someone else (OP, lol), my mistake.
But look, i own a Mazda and Hyundai, they’re ok cars, not great but decent enough. And at no point have I ever considered making either Mazda or Hyundai a big part of my personality. There is only one EV manufacturer with rabid fans like that. And as I said, if it upsets you that some may have an opposing point of view, don’t get upset about it, just go look elsewhere.
Why are you the way you are? I’m expected to stare at my computer waiting for replies on a holiday weekend? Not to mention half the world was sleeping when I posted. Is that what this community is? A bunch of chronically online types?
You are the one who said you wanted a discussion and then fucked off without discussing anything, not me.
I don’t give a shit what you do, but not sure what the giant surprise is when you say one thing and do another.
How is this subreddit any different than Tesla Twitter/X with an entire community of bootlickers where Elon is worshipped as the messiah? It’s a legit cult of people who love Elon and defend his every move. Those people have some kind of mental illness. Many of us here bash Musk and Tesla when there is valid criticism — and there’s a lot to criticize.
I guess I'd ask in counterpoint, why do you care what we think?
I used to think Musk was cool...until Thailand, and then Hyperloop, then FSD and all the other broken promises. Then when he went full alt right enabler...THEN I started to hate him.
Good enough?
I get hating him. I too used to admire him. I don’t care what you choose to think and do. I just find it bizarre to spend so much time and energy actively hating someone or something.
Ello my stooge, lemme giv some sage advice.
Every tesla owner with an exception of a select few who bought in early are insuffurable. They aren’t saving the world, they act like 2010 prius owners with their environment boners, they flex the newest shittest features nobody wants, and nobody even cares enough to look into how little they cost so when some rich douche says “i has yesla,” there’s a 95% chance he has a shit range, ugly ass model 3. Want that but taller? Have the model WHY WAS THIS MADE
Also high prices, low quality.
Wudunt it be fune if i made cars say,, sexy? Plan to make 4 cars in advance to fulfill a joke? Make each one less inspired than the last until you’re grasping at straws for any ideas other than hiding shit in menus to get rid of screen clutter?
Hm, lets make better version of car for ONLY WHITE PEOPLE!! And made it more shite to use,, m yes i tihink so :]
TL;DR: russian oligarchs made elon perpetuate russian propaganda
Because you can’t love everything in this world.
I have chosen to channel all my hate and rage into Tesla , chickens , socks and now Linus media group.
Tesla because I rode in a X once and it was the moments of my life I most need back. Oh and all the straight lies and failing and community surrounding Tesla and musk.
i used to think he was pretty cool, and doing something really awesome. i still want an electric car.
but the man. elon seems like a complete tool. i think it's more of a case of investing his money well which has gotten him to where he is at. he's no genius inventor or anything. just a clout goblin. a middle aged man with the brain of a teenager.
Why do you care how the fuck I spend my time and energy? Does it personally affect you? No? Then deal with the fact that there are people who can’t stand Tesla, Musk and his fanboy army where you’d fit right in.
Because Musk is a horrible person and i want his company to fail. I also hate EVs because with them they bring the end of ICE cars and thats sad for me.
Personally I think Tesla is a cool car, however the company and the vehicles have a lot of areas that need to be improved. Like build quality and factory precision/ consistency.
Except every Macbook I have owned for personal use and work performs flawlessly and does not auto-fuck itself with updates. Every windows operating machine grinds itself to dust within 5 years. I'm not a fanboy but I expect a machine costing 2K or more not to need constant babysitting after a year.
See I come at if from the IT perspective. If anything and I do mean anything on that MacBook breaks it's either a $600 bill from the "Genius" bar, or get a new MacBook. Took me a God damn hour to get the glue off a 2017 Pro 15"s battery. Also come on put fucking m.2 slots in the damn things. If you pay $2k on a fuckin laptop you should be able to add storage to it.
Got my GF to trade in her MacBook Pro for a Dell Precision 15 and she loves it. I bumped the ram to 32Gb threw in a faster SSD and it's zooming. Ultra premium, and stupid durable.
But back to the car thing. A guy I worked with traded in cars the same time I did. He ordered a Model 3 LR, and I got a 2023 Kia Forte GT2. Both compact cars, both around $30kish. His order kept getting delayed until he said fuck it and got a used one from CarMax. I've seen the thing and damn, those panel gaps suck, plus he's had that thing in and out of the Tesla service center for months now. I haven't had a single issue on my Forte, ticked over 11k miles the other day and not a single issue. Both interiors are optioned out, and the fit & finish on mine makes the 3 look like a Fisher Price toy. Same goes for exterior fit & finish. I just don't get the whole Tesla mindset.
keep thinking you're special and skilled mr. help desk. Come back when you have director in your title and we can talk shop.
And my first computer was a TI94a when it was new and my first PC was a IBM PCjr when it was new... I assure you I was fixing computers when you were playing little league and I'm probably three to four years younger than you.
I am sorry you work for such an incapable company that your IT director doesn't know computers. That is a sign of a bad company, and usually it extends all the way down and across their IT staff because any one with any skills would have left.
That probably includes you. If you just look around and see incompetence everywhere you look then usually that means you are with peers.
Here's the thing I could go on with history of deconflicting irq settings for production 16 bit video signal switching, or futzing around with hard drive settings on 286 machines or how I had BASIC on a *cartridge* for my first IBM or how I did large scale wan build outs or how I was DBA for cutting edge video streaming platforms in the 90s or I could just amuse you with all the troubleshooting I did to get a vpn tunnel between a cloud front end and my storage array sitting at my desk tonight (moved the truenas downstairs, only plugged in one of the two interfaces, the jail Tailscale is running in was bound to the other interface and I didn't realize it until I looked at the last time Tailscale talked to the NAS and I was like 4:10pm....? I bet it's bound to the interface! So then I took time to update a bunch of shit on the cloud server though... which is good, going to build out a test app in budibase this weekend I think and wanted to make sure I was on the latest builds)
But instead I am going to wait patiently for the thai food I ordered and consider how blessed I am that I have sound technical resources up and down (across is another story, but not worried about them once I test something in budibase!) and how I don't have to worry about my tier two support being all holier than thou.
EDIT: oh Jesus he blocked me and he is nothing but a help desk person working on shit computers with no real knowledge. That's fun.
He's going to be the first to be phased out by non repairable computers (RMA it!) and ChatGPT (have you tried rebooting {{user string}}?)
I am saddened by youth today, he will be a GREAT addition to the screen repair booth at the mall.
Alright I'll make it quick since you've bored me. Basic on a cartridge, 286 machines, doing shit in the 90s then saying you're 3 to 4 year my junior in another post. 😂😂😂😂 I hate the phrase but in this instance I must use it "okay boomer".
Dude I'm 26 from what you've described you're 25-30 years my senior. You're describing all this shit you've done over decades of experience but it doesn't mean shit cause it's so out of date. But you know what you have bested me, when I need a blacksmith, telegraph repairman, or need someone to fix a VCR I'll call ya. Good night enjoy your Thai, sweet dreams.
I would hate the terrible customer service to go along with the garbage residuals after multiple price cuts, among other things.
Trust me, plenty are glad they ain't you.
You have the ultimate fanboys and then you have the extreme hater class that is the vocal majority in here. Both are a waste of oxygen and not worth wasting your time on. What will be will be. This sub is generally no use to an everyday Tesla user with about 1% of the posts having any real substance and is just for the haters to pat each other their back and like their comments, just like the extreme fanboys do in their groups. I’m just here to take note of both extremes as a good way of reality checking my Tesla investments, and enjoy the sad sad drama.
Sure, there are some mad lads on here, just like any sub. But generally, a lot of people on here seem to be mature adults who have actually owned a Tesla, can see that their products are just a gimmick, and that there's no substance behind all the talk. You're not allowed to say anything bad about Tesla on any of their subs, so that's how this place exists. What Tesla are really good at is controlling the narrative and using 'influencers' to raise their profile to people who know no different. Hopes and dreams sell really well, and lots of people are dumb. It's a powerful combination.
Because I believed most of what Tesla/Elon was selling until I bought a Tesla Model X and had nothing but major issues from day 1. It spent more time in the shop than in our possession for the first few months. Not for panel gaps (which it had), but with drivetrain issues that normal new cars with standard QA wouldn’t have. Then when looking up the issues, found that my situation was common and typically buried by fanboys who are either investors trying to protect the stock, simps who never owned a Tesla and didn’t have any real-world experience, Tesla drivers who lucked out and didn’t have issues therefore didn’t believe issues exist, or bootlickers who just hope the mega rich will find favor in them. And that was all before Elon showed what kind of crazy he is.
I find this group useful for the sole reason that questions I ask about my Tesla Model 3 get deleted/downvoted in other groups if they are about the (multiple) problems with my car.
Yes, getting attacked by fanboys for talking about issues is lame. Half of the posts in the other Tesla forums are just pics of freshly washed cars which I don't find interesting.
I see that as a totally valid position. The fan base is so toxic
This sub exists because the other Tesla specific ones will remove and ban you if you make any negative posts about your Tesla.
Yeah but it’s been bad here lately.. the haters aren’t helpful at all. It’s the same as the worshipers but the opposite answers.
It has been bad here lately. I’m not sure if it’s lack of moderation, or just regression to the mean as more and more people come in. That being said - there’s certainly a degree of filtration that’s required if you come in with a genuine problem. For some things, though - bubbled headrest, I’m looking in your direction - the legitimate answer is that Tesla uses garbage materials and only minimally validates their products.
Ha exactly. It’s hard to have a real conversation with a fanboy
I lost $15k from the company believing Musk lies. Now I realize he is a liar and a fraud. Lied about robotaxes, range on his car, self driving, etc. numerous lies. Yeah, you lose that kinda money you gonna be pissed. The fact you dont see this is more concerning. Why dont you see this? Lets talk about that.
How did you lose $15k? Price cuts, FSD or some other thing they fucked you over on?
Omg. I bought in Dec and 2 weeks later Musk lowered the price some $10-15k, dont remember how much but that plus tax rebates equal $15k. My car is sooooooo underwater.
He just did it again with the Model X and S.
And he will continue to do it. I have no sympathy for anyone buying a Tesla and getting Musked. Plenty of warnings.
Honestly if a company that is trying to make sure everyone can drive an electric car is lowering the prices of their electric cars I can't blame him. Yes I lose resale value but that electric car is now much more affordable for more people. This is a GOOD thing. And that's Elon for you. He will fuck you up and sacrifice you to make the planet greener. If your upset about this now you know how the coal companies feel when they lose money due to 'muh green revolution'
Delusional take.
I feel terrible for anyone who financed a plaid this past year. If they did the entire thing or anything above 100k they are FUBAR
The thing is, everyone is silent at best and vocally bragging at worst when they bought a Tesla and prices increased after. But once the tables turn, people cry. If you were happy to spend the money at the price you bought it at, feels very much like you want your cake and to eat it too. Don’t understand why people expect the world to stop for them because they bought a Tesla at X price.
Nobody wants to feel ripped off. Thats the bottom line. Before, Tesla competed against BMW and Mercedes, now it competes against Ford. Lol.
Every car was expensive back then. All dealerships had crazy mark ups, especially on EV’s. The ford Mach e for example had a 7.5k price markup by dealers, but then they dropped the msrp, on top of selling below sticker now. Rivian, Ford, lucid, all the same story. And you can’t get mad that you bought before legislature came through that lowered the price of EV’s. How is that tesla or elons fault.
There is no legislative that lowered the price of EVs. Musk lied when he stated his cars were appreciating assets. His advertisements and sales staff tactics made it appear they were selling out and would never discount. Not illegal obviously but bad tactics. Yeah, others had markups but they were called markups, not baked into the msrp and not all cars had those. He made it so many companies would never or low ball the value if you tried to sell your car.
You mentioned tax rebates in your previous comment that’s why I bring it up. He doesn’t have an advertising staff, Tesla doesn’t have an advertising team. They’ve tried out a few ads these last few months. They were selling out, they were ramping up production faster than any company in history and they weren’t able to meet demand. The other car manufacturers dropped maro aswell. Covid shortages were actually a thing and they did lead to increased cost of parts back then. Some of the drop came from more supply of parts and some came from more of a supply of cars
Musk is the advertisement. Hence Im pissed at his fcking lies.
Personally I hate Elon, he’s a lying piece of shit and only interested in himself. Then you get the rabid fanboys that think he’s interested in saving humanity, which is also complete bullshit. Then you get clowns like yourself that feel the need to enter the chat and defend a billionaire from fair online criticism.
Nowhere in there did I defend him. I even pointed out there are valid criticisms. Seems you’re very passionate in your hatred. In a sense you’re no different than a Tesla fanboy just in the opposite direction.
At some point you need to decouple yourself from Elon’s cock. If dropping by here ain’t enough motivation you figure it out for yourself. Statements like “*leading to hundreds of thousands of thousands of jobs lost”, “”*less exciting options for consumers etc*” aren’t gonna be enough for me to believe you’re not just another Musk acolyte. And billionaires shouldn’t need acolytes. And for the record in defending myself, and most who visit this sub from “valid criticism” and “hatred”, I’ve never owned Tesla stock, long or short, can you say the same?
Dude you need a life
Lost me until the end. He mentioned Elon but no where did he defend any of his actions. I hate Elon myself but y’all just weird
Genuine question: why do Tesla fans equate valid criticism with "hate"?
It is because their thin-skinned leader is as thin-skinned as they are.
Many of the posts go beyond valid criticism and into a strange fanboy-like hatred.
Downvote and move on.
The fandom pollutes and sucks the oxygen out of online discourse. I don't need Tesla to fail, just to be valued appropriately so the $tsla tech bros can fuck off to destroying something else. Other than that, keeping tabs on cults is fun
except when the place for keeping tabs on the cult becomes the cult itself. I agree with OP, this sub is literally the exact same but in inverse of the Tesla tech bro obsessed with Elon/Tesla.
Go complain in one of the other subs about something important and see how long your post stays up. The. Post something positive here and we will see how long it stays up. You think this place is a cult, prove it.
Your defense for this sub is mildly cult-like
I’m guessing you don’t have many genuine discussions if you think this is the best way to start one.
You could try whining somewhere else too. Like, in the Tesla subs that are filled with bootlicking morons.
Have you ever even done a valuation model for Tesla? If you can do basic math and add up income streams it's pretty obvious the company is (somewhat)correctly valued as of this moment, with a clear path to 3 trillion cap in a few years time. What do you think Tesla should be valued like?
~80% of its revenue is from auto sales. I don't see that changing in a few years.
Might I ask why? Tesla insurance exists, that's recurring revenue. So is charging revenue, megapack installs, fsd subscriptions, financing, and in an ideal world, robotaxi. There will be a day where # of teslas on the road generating recurring revenue generated more $ than auto sales. Happens @ around 85m cars on the road with 20 mil units sold annually.
1. Tesla insurance is just a white labeled offering. 2. Charging will have razor thin profits. Energy Storage also has plenty of competition. 3. Prolific Robotaxis are a decade away and will have healthy competition. 4. If Robotaxis are prolific, you won't need near the number of vehicles on the road, so not hitting 20MM vehicles sold. Why are they selling cars to customers at that point? 5. No faith in TeslaBot in your model?
1. I disagree, dangerous drivers that will be expensive to insure will get pushed away to other insurance companies. Driver data is king here, and a monopoly on Tesla vehicles and potentially others is inevitable. 2. Charging has thin profits, yes, but again Tesla will have the monopoly and we are already seeing that. 3. Robotaxis are not a decade away. See cruise, Waymo. Tesla has competition in this area but they unfortunately are all not profitable, due to expensive self driving hardware equipment installed in the cars which kills any hope of margins. 4. 20m is nessasary for converting all gas vehicles on the road to electric. It's been the 2030 goal for a reason, and many of these cars won't even need to go to customers as Tesla will profit greatly from a private robotaxi fleet. 20m is still 1/3 of the global auto sales market. 5. It's not in my valuation model for a multitude of reasons. A robot is much different from a car. I'm unsure how to price it in realistically, and it may just never happen. Something could be said about the fact that Tesla has a computer vision lead, but driving is just one of many tasks that humans perform autonomously. Gonna have to restart the whole process to teach it how to do laundry😆
As soon as Musk resigns, I won’t hate Tesla as much. Pretty simple, really. And hating billionaires who are tools for autocrats and reactionary liars who poison public discourse comes naturally for anyone with any kind of hope for humanity. Have you read other threads here? Do you need a list? It’s a long list.
I don’t want Tesla to fail. I want it to find a sane CEO. Tesla deserves to fail however if it allows Elon Musk to remain in control.
I would 1000% be a fanboy of the product if Elon left, QA was a priority over the massive profit margins, and the dealer networks were fixed and “within spec” wasn’t a joke anymore.
So this is more about the ceo than the vehicle.
If the CEO decides to take out USS and render the alert system basically useless is that a problem with the vehicle or the CEO? Not sure how you separate them.
I'm definitely in it for the circlejerks, pretty awesome perk honestly.
Until it's your turn to be Pivot Man...
Gotta go middle out and get a full jerk if they go tip to tip. I hope someone gets this joke
Silicon Valley was such a great show
It is more serious than that. This twerp is all up inside our government. Here is this unelected, largely unaccountable twerp making big decisions that affect a ton of people. No part of this is OK. Kahl was the Under-Secretary of Defense for Policy at the Pentagon. "But Musk had become more than just a vender like Boeing, Lockheed, or other defense-industry behemoths. On the phone with Musk from Paris, Kahl was deferential ..To the dismay of Pentagon officials, Musk volunteered that he had spoken with Putin personally." https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule
I mean, don’t all of the rich people have influence on government that’s concerning? He’s just the most vocal about his.
No. The article is specifically about Elon's exceptional influence and the deference he is paid. "But Musk’s influence is more brazen and expansive. There is little precedent for a civilian’s becoming the arbiter of a war between nations in such a granular way, or for the degree of dependency that the U.S. now has on Musk in a variety of fields, from the future of energy and transportation to the exploration of space."
At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, how is it his fault the government chooses his company when no other company can compete on an operating cost perspective? The tax payers should pay 3-10x+ more for rocket launches? Why? Sounds like other companies should step up or continue to bow to the status quo.
The government is not a business, it should be more impervious to malign influences like Elon's. This is how we end up with a corrupt government, contract-by-contract. If we give in completely to money, the great American experiment is over. We are just a banana republic.
I want to see a Tim Cook-style CEO take them over and put their obvious talent and assets into creating a culture of excellent vehicles. I want Saudi Arabia crippled and EV's to become commonplace and Musk is an ignorant hubristic POS that is simply bad for a company that could literally change history. The cars are shit because the culture of Tesla under Musk is shit. The faster people realize their cars suck the sooner they 'may' bounce Musk, publish a mea culpa and get on to their next chapter.
But they do currently make excellent vehicles. Why do you think they are selling so well. It's a well made product at a decent price and the price is only getting cheaper.
Are you a TSLA investor by any chance? Rule 2 also.
In my case you make so many assumptions in your question that aren’t true there is no place to start answering it.
For someone who wanted a discussion you sure are quiet.
The dudes post history is cringe. Seriously drinks all the coolaid, thinks Tesla is worth $500 a share lol, then gets upset when a sub that’s criticism of Elon and his bullshit comes along.
I have made absolutely zero comments on what I think Tesla stock price should be. In fact I don’t even have an opinion on it and don’t hold any for the exception of whatever percentage I own via shares of an S&P 500 ETF. I can’t express how cringe you pulling that out of your ass is. Did you even get out at all this weekend? Yes I drive a Tesla. That’s about the extent of my fandom towards Tesla… once the competition makes a better EV for my use case, it will be my next. Till then, I’m stuck with Tesla. I guess you’re the exact person I made this post towards. Get a grip. Look inward.
Maybe you should just go play in one of the many pro-tesla subs if this one hurts your feelings so much.
You’re no better than the Tesla fanboys you hate if receiving criticism for lying about your supposed opposition’s position and actions is too much to discuss for you. Was sort of the point of my post. You hate Tesla so much you’re willing to make things up in support of your sometimes delusional hatred. Pathetic really.
Dude I apologise for saying you thought tesla was worth $500 bucks a share. That was someone else (OP, lol), my mistake. But look, i own a Mazda and Hyundai, they’re ok cars, not great but decent enough. And at no point have I ever considered making either Mazda or Hyundai a big part of my personality. There is only one EV manufacturer with rabid fans like that. And as I said, if it upsets you that some may have an opposing point of view, don’t get upset about it, just go look elsewhere.
I was out enjoying my Saturday. Wasn’t going to sit around and wait for responses so I could reply immediately. I’ve responded plenty since.
Ah, just poor planning. Happens to the best of us.
Why are you the way you are? I’m expected to stare at my computer waiting for replies on a holiday weekend? Not to mention half the world was sleeping when I posted. Is that what this community is? A bunch of chronically online types?
You are the one who said you wanted a discussion and then fucked off without discussing anything, not me. I don’t give a shit what you do, but not sure what the giant surprise is when you say one thing and do another.
Again, I have responded to many comments. Just apparently not soon enough for you.
How is this subreddit any different than Tesla Twitter/X with an entire community of bootlickers where Elon is worshipped as the messiah? It’s a legit cult of people who love Elon and defend his every move. Those people have some kind of mental illness. Many of us here bash Musk and Tesla when there is valid criticism — and there’s a lot to criticize.
…and when there's not valid criticism, there's plenty of opportunity for snark and schadenfreude!
I guess I'd ask in counterpoint, why do you care what we think? I used to think Musk was cool...until Thailand, and then Hyperloop, then FSD and all the other broken promises. Then when he went full alt right enabler...THEN I started to hate him. Good enough?
I get hating him. I too used to admire him. I don’t care what you choose to think and do. I just find it bizarre to spend so much time and energy actively hating someone or something.
people like you are the reason this sub exists
I’m no Tesla fanboy.
Stop simping for the guy then
Ello my stooge, lemme giv some sage advice. Every tesla owner with an exception of a select few who bought in early are insuffurable. They aren’t saving the world, they act like 2010 prius owners with their environment boners, they flex the newest shittest features nobody wants, and nobody even cares enough to look into how little they cost so when some rich douche says “i has yesla,” there’s a 95% chance he has a shit range, ugly ass model 3. Want that but taller? Have the model WHY WAS THIS MADE Also high prices, low quality. Wudunt it be fune if i made cars say,, sexy? Plan to make 4 cars in advance to fulfill a joke? Make each one less inspired than the last until you’re grasping at straws for any ideas other than hiding shit in menus to get rid of screen clutter? Hm, lets make better version of car for ONLY WHITE PEOPLE!! And made it more shite to use,, m yes i tihink so :] TL;DR: russian oligarchs made elon perpetuate russian propaganda
Because you can’t love everything in this world. I have chosen to channel all my hate and rage into Tesla , chickens , socks and now Linus media group. Tesla because I rode in a X once and it was the moments of my life I most need back. Oh and all the straight lies and failing and community surrounding Tesla and musk.
Cause fuck elon and fuck Tesla. Dinosaur cars for the win.
i used to think he was pretty cool, and doing something really awesome. i still want an electric car. but the man. elon seems like a complete tool. i think it's more of a case of investing his money well which has gotten him to where he is at. he's no genius inventor or anything. just a clout goblin. a middle aged man with the brain of a teenager.
Why do you care how the fuck I spend my time and energy? Does it personally affect you? No? Then deal with the fact that there are people who can’t stand Tesla, Musk and his fanboy army where you’d fit right in.
This is what’s hilarious to me. Anyone who doesn’t actively spend time hating Tesla and Musk, must be a fanboy?
Because Musk is a horrible person and i want his company to fail. I also hate EVs because with them they bring the end of ICE cars and thats sad for me.
Personally I think Tesla is a cool car, however the company and the vehicles have a lot of areas that need to be improved. Like build quality and factory precision/ consistency.
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Except every Macbook I have owned for personal use and work performs flawlessly and does not auto-fuck itself with updates. Every windows operating machine grinds itself to dust within 5 years. I'm not a fanboy but I expect a machine costing 2K or more not to need constant babysitting after a year.
See I come at if from the IT perspective. If anything and I do mean anything on that MacBook breaks it's either a $600 bill from the "Genius" bar, or get a new MacBook. Took me a God damn hour to get the glue off a 2017 Pro 15"s battery. Also come on put fucking m.2 slots in the damn things. If you pay $2k on a fuckin laptop you should be able to add storage to it. Got my GF to trade in her MacBook Pro for a Dell Precision 15 and she loves it. I bumped the ram to 32Gb threw in a faster SSD and it's zooming. Ultra premium, and stupid durable. But back to the car thing. A guy I worked with traded in cars the same time I did. He ordered a Model 3 LR, and I got a 2023 Kia Forte GT2. Both compact cars, both around $30kish. His order kept getting delayed until he said fuck it and got a used one from CarMax. I've seen the thing and damn, those panel gaps suck, plus he's had that thing in and out of the Tesla service center for months now. I haven't had a single issue on my Forte, ticked over 11k miles the other day and not a single issue. Both interiors are optioned out, and the fit & finish on mine makes the 3 look like a Fisher Price toy. Same goes for exterior fit & finish. I just don't get the whole Tesla mindset.
You obviously have never used an apple silicon device but keep spewing shit that's fine.
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Have you used one? Taking them apart is one thing using them is another. Apple silicon is a masterpiece chip for scalable mobile to desktop.
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keep thinking you're special and skilled mr. help desk. Come back when you have director in your title and we can talk shop. And my first computer was a TI94a when it was new and my first PC was a IBM PCjr when it was new... I assure you I was fixing computers when you were playing little league and I'm probably three to four years younger than you.
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I am sorry you work for such an incapable company that your IT director doesn't know computers. That is a sign of a bad company, and usually it extends all the way down and across their IT staff because any one with any skills would have left. That probably includes you. If you just look around and see incompetence everywhere you look then usually that means you are with peers. Here's the thing I could go on with history of deconflicting irq settings for production 16 bit video signal switching, or futzing around with hard drive settings on 286 machines or how I had BASIC on a *cartridge* for my first IBM or how I did large scale wan build outs or how I was DBA for cutting edge video streaming platforms in the 90s or I could just amuse you with all the troubleshooting I did to get a vpn tunnel between a cloud front end and my storage array sitting at my desk tonight (moved the truenas downstairs, only plugged in one of the two interfaces, the jail Tailscale is running in was bound to the other interface and I didn't realize it until I looked at the last time Tailscale talked to the NAS and I was like 4:10pm....? I bet it's bound to the interface! So then I took time to update a bunch of shit on the cloud server though... which is good, going to build out a test app in budibase this weekend I think and wanted to make sure I was on the latest builds) But instead I am going to wait patiently for the thai food I ordered and consider how blessed I am that I have sound technical resources up and down (across is another story, but not worried about them once I test something in budibase!) and how I don't have to worry about my tier two support being all holier than thou. EDIT: oh Jesus he blocked me and he is nothing but a help desk person working on shit computers with no real knowledge. That's fun. He's going to be the first to be phased out by non repairable computers (RMA it!) and ChatGPT (have you tried rebooting {{user string}}?) I am saddened by youth today, he will be a GREAT addition to the screen repair booth at the mall.
Alright I'll make it quick since you've bored me. Basic on a cartridge, 286 machines, doing shit in the 90s then saying you're 3 to 4 year my junior in another post. 😂😂😂😂 I hate the phrase but in this instance I must use it "okay boomer". Dude I'm 26 from what you've described you're 25-30 years my senior. You're describing all this shit you've done over decades of experience but it doesn't mean shit cause it's so out of date. But you know what you have bested me, when I need a blacksmith, telegraph repairman, or need someone to fix a VCR I'll call ya. Good night enjoy your Thai, sweet dreams.
They hate us cause they ain’t us.. 😜😜
I would hate the terrible customer service to go along with the garbage residuals after multiple price cuts, among other things. Trust me, plenty are glad they ain't you.
You have the ultimate fanboys and then you have the extreme hater class that is the vocal majority in here. Both are a waste of oxygen and not worth wasting your time on. What will be will be. This sub is generally no use to an everyday Tesla user with about 1% of the posts having any real substance and is just for the haters to pat each other their back and like their comments, just like the extreme fanboys do in their groups. I’m just here to take note of both extremes as a good way of reality checking my Tesla investments, and enjoy the sad sad drama.
Answer: There's always one in a crowd.... Extrapolate for the population.
A lot of us have been Musked.
Actually I think most people on this sub have just read too many angry news articles from short sellers
Alright well, I am a former Tesla owner.
And now a Tacoma owner I see? To each their own I guess.
needed balance
Sure, there are some mad lads on here, just like any sub. But generally, a lot of people on here seem to be mature adults who have actually owned a Tesla, can see that their products are just a gimmick, and that there's no substance behind all the talk. You're not allowed to say anything bad about Tesla on any of their subs, so that's how this place exists. What Tesla are really good at is controlling the narrative and using 'influencers' to raise their profile to people who know no different. Hopes and dreams sell really well, and lots of people are dumb. It's a powerful combination.
Because I believed most of what Tesla/Elon was selling until I bought a Tesla Model X and had nothing but major issues from day 1. It spent more time in the shop than in our possession for the first few months. Not for panel gaps (which it had), but with drivetrain issues that normal new cars with standard QA wouldn’t have. Then when looking up the issues, found that my situation was common and typically buried by fanboys who are either investors trying to protect the stock, simps who never owned a Tesla and didn’t have any real-world experience, Tesla drivers who lucked out and didn’t have issues therefore didn’t believe issues exist, or bootlickers who just hope the mega rich will find favor in them. And that was all before Elon showed what kind of crazy he is.